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The War on Terror Spectator
Pity the Poor Terrorist
Is the FBI guilty of entrapment?
Over the past couple of weeks, the FBI has arrested two individuals who were attempting to carry out separate terrorist attacks in the name of Islamic jihad on U.S. soil.
First there was the arrest of Mohamed Osman Mohamud in Portland, Oregon on November 26. Mohamud attempted to detonate a car bomb during the lighting of a Christmas tree in downtown Portland. If Mohamud had succeeded it would have resulted in the loss of hundreds, if not thousands, of lives. But the detonator was a fake. It was supplied to Mohamud by the very undercover FBI agents who arrested him.
Then there was the arrest of Muhammad Hussain (formerly known as Antonio Martinez) on December 8 as he attempted to detonate a bomb at a U.S. military recruitment center in Catonsville, Maryland, just west of Baltimore. But his detonator was also a fake and had been supplied to him by undercover FBI agents.
Liberals have long preferred that the question of terrorism be addressed by law enforcement rather than the military. So you would think liberals would be pleased with the arrests of Mohamud and Hussain. Yet this is not the case.
Consider what Glenn Greenwald wrote on Salon.comwith regard to Mohamud’s arrest. While Greenwald acknowledged it was possible the FBI had legitimately arrested a man intent on committing murder and mayhem, he also believes the FBI could have “created a plot it then persuaded/manipulated/entrapped him to join, essentially turning him into a Terrorist; and then patted itself on the back once it arrested him for having thwarted a ‘Terrorist plot’ which, from start to finish, was entirely the FBI’s own concoction. (2)
So, in the world according to Glenn Greenwald, the FBI is creating terrorists.
Geraldo Rivera agrees. During a recent appearance on The O’Reilly Factor, Rivera called Hussain’s arrest “bogus, absolutely bogus,” claimed Hussain had been “seduced” by the FBI into bombing the military recruitment center, and said these “are not real crimes.”
But what if Muhamud had successfully detonated that car bomb in downtown Portland? And what if Martinez had successfully blown up that military recruitment center near Baltimore? What if thousands of lives had been lost as a result? And what if it had been learned that the FBI had been investigating both Muhamud and Hussain and had not intervened? Greenwald and Rivera would be the first to accuse the FBI of dereliction of duty.
Yet Greenwald’s “concoction” claim and Rivera’s “seduction” argument beg the following question. If undercover operations are beyond the pale, then what tactics should the FBI use to combat terrorism? Do Greenwald and Rivera have better alternatives? What are their solutions? But don’t expect them to be forthcoming with any alternatives or solutions.
Unfortunately, what has become apparent is that many liberals view Muslim terrorists as yet another class of victims, another class of oppressed peoples. If not for the big, bad FBI, Mohammed Osman Muhamud and Muhammad Hussain would probably be standing on top of a hill holding a Coke bottle and chanting, “I’d Like to Teach the World to Sing.”
These sentiments, of course, are not new amongst liberals. We saw them manifest after the fallout of the Abu Ghraib scandal and with detainees at Guantanamo Bay. But now that these terrorist plots are being planned on U.S. soil on a far more regular basis these sentiments are far more troubling. They are troubling because it is an indication a significant segment of our population is still in denial about the nature of terrorism inspired by Islamic fundamentalism. Notwithstanding the cataclysmic events of September 11, 2001, there exists a belief amongst many liberals that these acts don’t happen here or that if they do happen here there is no link to Islamic fundamentalism.
So when confronted with attempted terrorist attacks in Portland or suburban Baltimore it is easier for many liberals to cast aspersions against the FBI than to acknowledge there are people living among us who would do them and their families grievous harm. It is more comforting for liberals to think the FBI is wantonly entrapping people than to think that someone might actually be trying to detonate an explosive in a public square, a military recruitment center, or perhaps even the train you take back and forth to work. Many liberals would rather believe the FBI can turn law abiding citizens into cold blooded killers than to believe some of our Muslim neighbors are prepared to commit mass murder.
It is a case of pity the poor terrorist. Heaven help us.
About the Author
Aaron Goldstein writes from Boston, Massachusetts.
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George True| 12.14.10 @ 6:29AM
Those who are familiar with my comments here know that my attitude is that in general we should strive to kill terrorists in their beds whenever possible. Having said that, I am off the reservation somewhat on this issue in that I think there is some truth to the entrapment argument.
It is quite possible that without the FBI's involvement, one or both of these individuals might have gone on to plan and carry out terrorist bombings on their own. Or maybe not. We will never know. What disturbs me is the impression I get is that the FBI is simply trolling for Utes who shoot their mouth off about wanting to carry out jihad, and then encourages them to carry out their dream. In my view, this is a poor substitute for carrying out real investigation into real terrorist networks that are operating here. It is, however, a lot easier to troll for muslim malcontents than to infiltrate the networks in Somalia, Yemen, and elsewhere and in so doing identify the cells they are supporting here. My concern is that the FBI is opting for the 'easy way' rather than the much harder task of getting a complete handle on the jihadist cells operating here.
Arresting these wannabee bombers seems impressive at first glance, but who knows whether or not they would have attempted to carry through without the FBI's strong encouragement and assistance every step of the way. In the meantime, real jihadists are coming here over our wide-open border with Mexico pretty much every day.
John Navratil| 12.14.10 @ 10:15AM
Mr. True,
I am not a lawyer, however, my understanding of entrapment is inducing someone to commit a criminal act they would otherwise not do without coercion. It is not entrapment to play along. Obviously the line cannot be crossed and FBI behaviour needs to be scrutinized, but I've seen no evidence that they have tried to coerce criminal activity. The proper place for this determination is in the courts. My opinion is that it will be hard to argue entrapment when the FBI was led to the suspect by the suspect's own actions.
As to the notion of youthful indiscretion: Clearly "Utes" popping off at the mouth is not criminal. It's when these motives are acted upon that the crime is committed.
You may suspect that the FBI is taking the easy route and merely trolling for jihadi wannabes. It's a legitimate concern, but one which you will not be able to validate. If you knew what they were doing in pursuit of jihadis in Somalia, Yemen and elsewhere, so would the jihadis. That wouldn't be very helpful.
Eric Cartman| 12.14.10 @ 10:45AM
Well, accordingly, if we follow this argument (It is quite possible that without the FBI's involvement, one or both of these individuals might have gone on to plan and carry out terrorist bombings on their own. Or maybe not.) to its conclusion, then we can know nothing and never can know anything until the smoldering concrete is at our feet. If we can't seek out terror suspect in our midst, then we are truly useless.
Alan Brooks| 12.15.10 @ 12:01AM
All you libertarians shout "NEOCON" in unison.
Narko| 12.14.10 @ 8:20AM
The "entrapment" defense is difficult since the "standard" is did the individual have the "propensity to commit this crime." Narcotics is enforced this way every day. "Lured or not, these fellow did try to commit mass murder . The FBI gave them opportunities to back out and did warn them that they were committing mass murder. Stupidity is not an excuse. Jails are packed with people who are "dumb stupid."
Alert1201| 12.14.10 @ 8:28AM
And it is affective. In my younger days I used to be a petty drug dealer and knew more serious ones. During every deal the prominant though on our minds was, "Is this guy I am selling drugs to a cop?" I guarantee there are many drug dealers locked up and off the streets because they sold dope to an undercover cop and there are probably many more who are no longer selling them because of the fear of doing so. May the same fear be on the mind of every would be terrorist.
Melvin| 12.14.10 @ 8:32AM
The saving grace to all this is, that the kid was given multiple chances to back out. In fact it was literally spelled out to him what would be the outcome of his actions and does he still want to go through with it. Bottom line the kid pulled the trigger, do one cohered him, no one threatened him, he did it on his own free will.
Being born and raised in Oregon, my relatives have informed me, that mosques sprout the countryside en-mass.
My own reasoning is, that you can drive any direction in Oregon and be in wilderness inside of an hour.
This being off the radar would be appealing to Islamic Jihadists bent on murdering infidels. To be sure there are many more Islamic Jihadists being groomed in the many Mosques that dot the Oregon Countryside, and a large portion of them won't make the same mistakes as Mohamud.
Curly Smith| 12.14.10 @ 8:34AM
The liberals object to the FBI arrests for the same reason that they object to the military - the actions preempt terrorist acts. They much prefer law enforcement entering the picture after innocents are murdered so they can then blame the victims for getting murdered. It's Rev. Wright's "chickens coming home to roost", they want innocent citizens to be murdered, maimed and to live in constant fear. They want to punish us for demonstrating the lie of socialism, for spreading economic prosperity, and for being the beacon of freedom for those under the jack boots of thug dictators around the world.
And, as a added bonus, a terrorist attack would be a boost to Obama's re-election. It's truly a shame that 9/11 didn't happen when Clinton was President. He was denied his chance at greatness by the vagaries of term limits and happenstance. Be careful when you peek behind the veil of liberalism, you might not like what you see.
Yves Bauer| 12.14.10 @ 6:04PM
"The liberals object to the FBI arrests for the same reason that they object to the military - the actions preempt terrorist acts."
I have seen a lot on these forums... This has to be in my top 5 list. Are you insinuating that liberals want terrorist attacks to take place in the US? Are you out of your *** mind? You sir are a complete idiot.
WeMustResist| 12.15.10 @ 6:55AM
Curly Smith is closer to the truth than Yves Bauer. The left, all over the world, in every nation and every generation, is in rebellion against authority, and the left is prepared for other people to pay the price for the left's rebellion. We saw in Portland Oregon that the left is strongly against the FBI, even when the FBI saves lives. As long as the left can pin responsibility on other people (eg the FBI) then the left will side with the enemies of humanity. Do you remember how the left treated Hitler? They blamed the right for appeasement even though the left appeased him just as much. They collaborated with Hitler until he attacked them in the USSR. Then at last they started to resist. Today the left finds any excuse to appease the Muslim terrorists and oppose the forces of law and order. The left resists the right, but right thinking people oppose an evil idea.
WeMustResist| 12.15.10 @ 7:04PM
Don't forget that in your lifetime liberals/leftists did commit acts of terrorism in the USA. on Sep 11th 2001 Bill Ayers said that he regretted nothing. He had married a convicted terrorist, verbally supported other terrorists, his social circle included other sympathisers of terrorism, if not practitioners. He and his wife are close friends of the Obamas. He and Barack have worked closely together on several issues. The rot goes all the way to the top, and it starts on the left.
Pelligrino| 12.14.10 @ 9:45AM
Mr. George True, while you write well and I understand what you try to convey, you are WRONG.
This is our present day culture in ALL things: Excuse, excuse, excuse. (the verb, not the noun)
As in: You are excused for that; you couldn't have known that it would harm others.
19 may seem young. It is not. At 19 years old, you know full well what you are doing.
Stop excusing.
In my world: The Portland bomber's punishment would be to lay on top of the explosives -- for days, exposed to all the outdoor elements. This continues until he is about to humanly expire but is still conscious, coherent. Then...detonate.
Filmed live. Shown everywhere. A lesson for all.
His parents and siblings must be present; they must watch. And this should occur prior to 1 February 2011.
(so, let's get going)
No, Muhamud, you are not excused.
(simultaneously bulldozing over any and all mosques or imam homes he attended during his "upbringing," all web sites viewed given the full array of cyber warfare with placement of their web creators on our most wanted lists.)
This is war, folks. Right now, we keep getting lucky. You do. I do. Our brethren at Fort Hood last year were not.
And I am sure everyone on that flight to Detroit is thanking God for another year of being able to walk planet earth.
Mr. True, we fight at every level. Everyone knows that the Portland and Baltimore fellows are the small foot soldiers. The bigger prey is tougher to ensnare.
You win by annihilation at every level. Swiftly.
No excuses.
George True| 12.14.10 @ 3:17PM
I may very well be mistaken about my take on this. And I am not excusing anybody for their malevolent intent or evil actions. But something about it all just disturbs me. I think it has to do with the fact that under the current administration I wouldn't necessarily believe anything that any federal agency told me, not even the FBI.
My observation is that all federal and many state agencies are entirely self-serving, and will promulgate lies and disinformation to the public whenever it suits them to do so. The articles I have read about these attempted bombings contained very little actual information. And none of us have any way of knowing if what the FBI is telling us is really the way things went down.
I am also concerned that we are arresting these radicalized American muslim Utes, but we are allowing them to BECOME radicalized in the mosques springing up all over the country that are spewing hatred for America, and are advocating the overthrow of the United States.
Would not the FBI's time and efforts be better spent infiltrating the mosques and frankly shutting down any and all of them that are advocating jihad or advocating any law other than the US Constitution and state statutes (ie-sharia)? We are arresting their product, but doing nothing about the jihad proselytizers in our very midst.
Occam's Tool| 12.14.10 @ 5:32PM
Mr. True,
I believe the ACLU would make it very difficult for us to infiltrate the Mosques in the intelligent manner you suggest. I'm thankful they allow peanut butter to be used with jelly; if they thought about how many Americans enjoyed that. they would come down on the other side.
Pelligrino| 12.15.10 @ 12:13AM
Mr. True, I agree with you in full. We are moving way to snail-like (if at all?) on shutting down mosques, imam homes, and Muslim schools within our borders.
This is NOT a religion as it is "taught" in these places.
So, yes, snagging a couple of small footsoldiers earns praise/promotions/media notoriety (any law enforcment leader, FBI man, etc. at a certain level CRAVES this/lives for it), these are small, little wins. But it is merely gaining 8 yards on a pass play, while being 32 points down on the scoreboard late in the 3rd quarter.
So, you have my 100% agreement. We need to stop pussyfootin' around.
(Where's the mammouth planning like a pre-D-Day effort to do this? What? This does not merit that kind of effort?)
The overthrow of the USA in bits and pieces and on the grand scale is being promulgated within the walls of a mosque near --- near all of us.
Shut them down, demolish. (Yes, keep using those big CAT bulldozers, no stone left standing) And revocation of citizenship with swift deportation of any naturalized 'citizens' who were attendees.
(while sticking a chip in their bodies so we can track them for a long, long time)
Keep usin' those bulldozers on any printing company that has produced this seditious literature.
No exceptions.
You are correct, Mr. True. Time to destroy the foundation, the roots.
Again, this is war. One that is now well over 3 decades old. We're movin' mighty slow.
This ain't the USA of my forefathers.
GreginOkinawa| 12.15.10 @ 6:13AM
"The overthrow of the USA in bits and pieces and on the grand scale is being promulgated within the walls of a mosque near --- near all of us."
The overthrow of the USA is also being promulated within the Halls of Congress and the White House too.
Ken (Old Texican)| 12.14.10 @ 9:49AM
Folks,
Heh, for once nothing to add. Mr. Goldstein and you guys nailed it on all sides.
tdiinva| 12.14.10 @ 10:18AM
My understanding is that the perp in the Portland case was originally identified by a fellow mosque member as a potential terrorist. Only then did the FBI begin its sting operation. That is not entrapment by any measure.
I do not know particulars of the Baltimore case but if it was the result of FBI trolling then the enticement/entrapment defense becomes valid.
Liberal hypocracy is on display here because if the entrapped victim was a white, militia member they would be howling for a general round up of "rightwing" extremists.
aflecht| 12.14.10 @ 10:47AM
So just because someone in a mosque anonymously reports to the FBI that one of their fellow mosque-goers is a terrorist, that gives the FBI carte blanche?
That said as a lefty myself I agree with your last contention about right wing militias. Glenn Greenwald didn't jump to the Hutaree's defense. What can I say? Hypocrisy knows no ideology.
tdiinva| 12.14.10 @ 2:57PM
Aflecht:
What the tip gave was probable cause to start an investigation. The tipster came forward and was not anonymous. I think the in the case the FBI acted properly to trip up a potential terrorist and neutralize him before he found a way to actually kill someone. I lack enough information on the Baltimore case to make an accurate judgement.
Occam's Tool| 12.14.10 @ 5:37PM
Mr. Aflecht:
my understanding was that he voiced his desire to kill hundreds repeatedly, without enticement. As someone who has called in a terrorist threat before (I had a co-worker who was martial arts training Palestinian nationals), I find the FBI to be very level-headed on this sort of thing. My co-worker was intimidated and stopped his behavior, but no charges were filed.
I honestly am happy the Portland dude was nailed. Rivera is a scumbag doubled.
Steve A| 12.14.10 @ 11:10AM
Aflecht, Someone in a mosque publically sates (via internet inquiry or other method) that they want to blow you & your family to smithereens. The FBI offers assistance under a sting. The lunatic eagerly cooperates to the point of dialing the phone # to blast random people, including your family, to bits. And your problem with busting this jerk & locking him up is??????
Richard Baker| 12.14.10 @ 11:12AM
Why does anyone listen to Geraldo Rivera anyway? He's a lawyer in name only despite his law diploma, sorta like Al Sharpton is a man of the cloth. He's a media whore and not particularly good at that. Remember Al Capone's secret chamber? Poor Moslems, they're so misunderstood, aren't they?
Occam's Tool| 12.14.10 @ 5:33PM
The only time I HAVE ever agreed with a racist was the day the Nazi punched Rivera in the nose.
WilliamInWien| 12.14.10 @ 12:17PM
Persuaded? Seduced? Into what? Giving money to a Middle East charity? Subscribing to Al Jazeera? Conspiring to kill thousands is a different case altogether. There has to be more than persuasion there, something else from the outset that has nothing to do with the FBI. A bigger question might have to do with what persuasion/seduction/brainwahing teachniques were previously used on Geraldo and Glenn and who did it?
oliver| 12.14.10 @ 2:14PM
I'm sorry...Geraldo Rivera? One of the great intellectual giants of our day? Why would anyone care what Geraldo Rivera thinks? That's like repeating something you heard Katie Couric say.
Dixie Pixie| 12.14.10 @ 3:16PM
What is the problem Gentlemen?
The FBI is only living up to the highest standards of governmental service.
Specificity, For the budding Jihadist, the FBI provides a far better array of services than Al Qaeda.
Why journey thousands of miles and live in a mud hut with rudimentary sanitation, plotting how to blowup infidels, when a Jihadist can do so from the comfort of home.
Why should a Jihadist deal with a bunch of cave dwelling incompetents like Al Qaeda when one can deal with a truly professional service.
The FBI has decades of experience with a wide variety of explosive devices and has developed the professional services to provide the Jihadist with any device desired.
As a special deal, for this GWOT only, the FBI will even provide the explosive devices free or at very low cost.
Unlike the amateurs at Al Qaeda the FBI can provide professional quality services for the budding Jihadist.
The FBI can provide professional services for every stage of the plot.
All a Jihadist has to provide is the personal and the FBI can take care of the rest.
The FBI can even provide the financing.
Why risk dieing forgotten and alone on some foreign battlefield when the FBI can supply post-plot professional quality publicity for free.
Yes, the FBI will make sure your fame as a Jihadist will be known far and wide.
As a added bonus the Justice system will provide free room, board and medical for life in a governmental facility.
A Jihadist can find no better deal any where else.
The FBI is your one stop professional supplier of Jihadist services.
Call Today.
Special Agents are standing by, awaiting your call to Jihad.
Redstateboy| 12.14.10 @ 4:31PM
Entrapment my Ass... I can't comment on the Baltimore knucklehead but the Portland swine???
The FBI gave the guy multiple outs yet the jihadist indictated he Wanted to pull it off.. He Wanted to murder innocent people.. He couldn't wait to pull it off.
Boomerbabe| 12.15.10 @ 12:44AM
I live north of Portland. Hate going there - way to full of pretentious yuppies, pretending their bicycles are as big as cars, walking in the crosswalk on the red light...slowly...while sipping lattes. Blech! I'm sure there are nice, normal Portlanders, but they must be working or hiding. You never hear from them, just these silly liberal "Sanctuary City" twits.
rongordo | 12.14.10 @ 4:44PM
Perhaps the train bomb would acually anger the lib's, as it's considered a holy transportation. Anyway, of course they align with the terrorists. We've seen the video of the cyclist bombing the recruiting station in NYC. Their tactics match. Their initial goals are the same. Anti- Christian, anti-military.
Tex| 12.14.10 @ 7:40PM
The liberals will never see reality till another bomb goes off, even that may not be enough.
PCC| 12.15.10 @ 2:29AM
So for the billions we're spending on anti-terrorism, this is the best the FBI can do? Lead on and entrap a couple of hopeless idiots who couldn't find their own assholes with two hands and a flashlight? This put-up job doesn't make the US one bit safer at all. The TSA mentality is alive and well in the FBI, too. God help us!
GreginOkinawa| 12.15.10 @ 6:20AM
So the terrorists in Baltimore and Portland were stooopid, hell, they probably voted for Obama. BUT, need I remind everyone that stoopid terrorists are still terrorists, and even tho Mohammed is stoopid, the deaths he could / would have caused would have all still been too real. The FBI trolling for terrorists is just one of many of the LEGITIMATE methods of this GWOT.
What the libs are so p'd about, is that they just ost two more Obama votes with those arrests.
ironhorzmn| 12.15.10 @ 2:14PM
'Entrapped'? I can't believe how morons like Rivera and Greenwald pull six- and seven-figure salaries while far more coherent AmSpec posters (like me) are forced to survive on VA disability and a meager military retirement.
Listen to these unrepentent morons rail in the courtroom about how, Inshallah, the infidel will kneel at the feet of the faithful and beg to have their head removed.
These wackos are serious. The left calls them easily manipulated 'amateurs' but recent history shows some of the deadliest jihadist bombers were nonentities only twenty-four hours earlier.
ironhorzmn| 12.15.10 @ 2:16PM
I should have said "unrepentant". The Times regrets the error.
Flatulus Ancien II| 12.16.10 @ 10:54AM
I must agree with the above comments that this is war. We are facing a people dedicated to the destruction of our American, Christian way of life.
We are offered the choice to accept islam, dhimmitude, or death.
If my Pastor stood in the pulpit and spoke as do the imams, (and black preachers) , our church would come under attack by our own IRS, and we would lose our tax exempt status.
The war is against Christianity, and is promulgated, and supported by our own pro islam president obama (ptooie! I have to cleanse my mouth any time I allow it to be dirtied by that name).
I have read of islamic training camps right here in the ol' USA, that go on without being stopped.
We are at war, but the government gives not much more than eye wash and lip service.