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Another Perspective
Let’s Invade North Korea — With the Chinese
And once Korea is reunited, there’ll be no need for us to stay.
I’m just an amateur at this with no particular expertise in international relations, but it seems to me we’re going about this North Korea business all wrong.
What’s the situation? North Korea’s childlike aggression with its new toy of nuclear weapons is the problem, but the real question mark in the area is China. If it were just North Koreans we were dealing with, we could put them away quickly and not worry too much about it. Just bomb their nuclear facilities and let them go back to eating grass. But the problem is they have this powerful ally on their flank. We already went through this in 1950 when China was willing to intervene when our armies reached the Yalu River. It would probably take action on behalf of North Korea again.
China is a powerful nation getting stronger every day. It’s four times the size of the United States and just beginning to feel the measure its industrial strength. It’s already overtaken us in energy consumption and will probably pass us on GNP within the next 20 years. Of course that will mean the average Chinese still lives on only one-fourth the level of the average American, but they will be big enough to throw their weight around.
At the same time, the Chinese have never been a particularly belligerent nation and don’t seem bent on conquest. It’s not as if this is some Muslim nation, always battling its neighbors. The Chinese are a very smart people. They score at the very top on international IQ tests. They’ve always been content to live in their Middle Kingdom. Their most troublesome neighbor has been Mongolia but it’s always been the Mongols invading them instead of vice versa. That’s why they built The Great Wall.
If the Chinese have been aggressive in Asia, it’s been a commercial aggression, not military. The Overseas Chinese have migrated into every Southeast Asian country and in most cases have become a dominant commercial minority. Thomas Sowell uses this to illustrate the fallacy that commercial groups get rich by exploiting the rest of the population. He says that in every country the Overseas Chinese are resented and accused of becoming rich only by robbing the natives. But the richest Overseas Chinese were in Hong Kong, where the “native population” is the British, who formed only one percent of the community!
The important lesson, however, is that even though Overseas Chinese are a vulnerable minority and often subject to persecution and pogroms, Mainland China has almost never intervened militarily. This isn’t Hitler protecting Germans in the Sudetenland. China’s only exception was when it invaded North Vietnam in 1979 after the expulsion of the Boat People, a large number of whom were Overseas Chinese. In that case, it left after a year, announcing it had “taught Vietnam a lesson.” Militarily the Chinese still abide by the teachings of Sun Zu in The Art of War, who taught that the object of war is to achieve the interests of the states by feints and positioning, rather than outright slaughter of the enemy.
The old days when China and Russia were imbued with the gospel of Communism and world dominion are over. China is a growing commercial power that now embraces technology and runs businesses better than we do. We may one day regain our equilibrium and out-compete China on that score, but in the meantime there isn’t any reason why we can’t be friends. Commercial nations have every reason to get along with each other. Economics is not a zero-sum game. So what’s the problem?
Well, the problem is the historical accident of North Korea. This half-nation is a bastardized monstrosity created in the closing days of World War II. Legend has it that Korea was divided when Stalin’s armies were marching down the peninsula and we asked them to halt. Somebody asked where we should draw the line and a staff sergeant, looking at the map, suggested the 38th parallel. (Dean Rusk is supposed to have been involved.) The North became a Soviet protectorate and eventually morphed into what is perhaps the world’s first truly insane nation. No one really knows what goes through Kim Il Jong’s head or what keeps his people in submission, but it has advanced far beyond anything George Orwell ever imagined.
Is China happy with this? Probably not. But it puts up with it because — according to the newspapers, at least — it wants to “keep the American army off its borders.” The theory is that any collapse of the North Korean government would lead to reunification and since South Korea is a U.S. puppet, a unified Korea means American lands on China’s doorstep. It’s General Douglas MacArthur all over again.
Well, it doesn’t have to be that way. South Korea is not a U.S. puppet and we have no purpose in being there except to protect South Korea from being invaded by the North, as it was in 1949 and probably would be again if we left. We don’t have to have an army in South Korea any more than we have to have an army in Vietnam, Taiwan, or any other country on China’s border. China is not going to invade South Korea any more than it is going to invade Mongolia or Vietnam or Singapore. (I know somebody is going to bring up Tibet here and I have to admit that was a pure act of international aggression. However, it did occur at the height of China’s Communist religious fervor and the Chinese did have some vague historical claims there. With that one exception, the Chinese have not shown any tendency to invade their neighbors.)
So here’s what we do. Let’s strike a deal with China. We both invade North Korea. They come in from the north, we come in form the south. Or put together an international coalition the way George Bush did in Kuwait. We’ll meet in Pyongyang and knock the Jong dynasty off its pedestal. This will require a joint air operation to knock out North Korea’s nuclear bombs before they get a chance to use them. After that, however, the North Koreans probably won’t offer more than two weeks’ resistance.
At that point we settle down to the ten-year task of reuniting North and South Korea. Ironically, before World War II the North was the advanced industrialized sector while the South an agricultural backwater. Communism and capitalism reversed this. Certainly there will be painful cultural and economic adjustments and lots of foreign aid will be required, but the two Koreas speak the same language. They were once one country and can be again. It would be a job of about the same magnitude as reuniting East and West Germany — costly but worth the effort.
So why would the Chinese agree to this? The answer is simple. After the ten-year reunification is completed, we pull out. There isn’t any reason for us to maintain an army in Korea once the two halves are reunited. I realize this arrangement carries all the dangers and pitfalls of the original agreement between the Soviets and the U.S. to divide Germany and Berlin. It is a temporary situation that could easily become permanent. But we’ll just have to be honest and forthright about it. If we establish good relations with China on this task, there isn’t any reason we can’t cooperate on lots of other things as well. The Chinese are not our natural enemies. It’s time to put World War II to rest.
The alternative is to drift toward confrontation the way we are now. We put an aircraft carrier in the Yellow Sea as a “show of force.” The Chinese take offense and say it’s like them holding military maneuvers in the Gulf of Mexico — which in fact it is. So what happens if someone attacks the aircraft carrier? Isn’t North Korea crazy enough to do it? They do have an atomic bomb, remember. Suppose they sink the carrier? What do we do then? Isn’t this how the Vietnam War started, with a series of half measures that provoked half measures from the other side until it was too late to turn back?
So let’s sit down and take stock. China is not a belligerent country. There’s no reason we can’t be friends. It’s North Korea that’s crazy. Let’s team up and get rid of it. Then the Chinese can have their half of the Pacific and we have ours. They continue to buy our debt and we continue to buy their television sets. What’s wrong with that?
I’m preparing a petition to send to Peking and Washington. Anybody want to sign?
Letter to the Editor View all comments (97) | Leave a comment
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John Smith | 12.3.10 @ 6:28AM
You are an idiot William.
Ian| 12.3.10 @ 9:17AM
No, he ain't an idiot, he is the International Fool.
Alan Brooks| 12.3.10 @ 10:22PM
"No one really knows what goes through Kim Il Jong's head"
His porn collection 's "money shots"?
Alan Brooks| 12.3.10 @ 10:30PM
..."I'm preparing a petition to send to Peking and Washington. Anybody want to sign?"
Yes, send a copy to 1313 Mockingbird lane.
Stuart Koehl| 12.3.10 @ 6:42AM
Tucker's either bored or been smoking the good stuff. What makes him think it's in China's interest to have a unified Korea? What makes him think China would every do anything that is to our benefit? What makes him think any deal we cut with China would not come back to bite us on the butt? And what makes him think China will be happy with just one half of the Pacific Ocean?
Ian| 12.3.10 @ 9:16AM
Amen
rongordo | 12.3.10 @ 7:00AM
North Korea is too important for China as a trial balloon. When they want to test America mettle, they have it done in North Korea. And make no mistake, when they are ready to take back Taiwan, as they will be someday, everything will start in Korea. If you think that the Chinese are done with WWII, you're hugely mstaken. Fervor and Nationalism are whipped up against Japan's 1930's actions on a weekly basis. What IS forgotten by the Chinese is our massve assistance to them during that war.
Booger | 12.3.10 @ 7:33AM
While we're at it, we can get the USSR to invade East Germany w/us and put everything back together. Then we can get the Germans to invade France w/us and set the French straight. Maybe Iran can help us invade Saudi Arabia and we could split up the oil. Then we could team up with Japan and invade Indonesia and liberate BHO's first grade spelling list. Maybe we could get the Turks to help us invade Greece. Lots of cheap olive oil there. And maybe Mr. Tucker shouldn't spend so much time standing next to the reactor.
Cordially,
Booger
Ian| 12.3.10 @ 9:16AM
Yeah! Finally, someone who has International Logics :D
MoeBlotz| 12.3.10 @ 9:20AM
Maybe Mexico will join us as we invade Venezuela to rescue South America as well. Save the coffee producers.
Doctor Right| 12.3.10 @ 7:57AM
The wikileaks scandal has revealed, among other things, that the Chinese government views North Korea as "spoiled children", and would like to see a unified Korean peninsula dominated by Seoul.
Maybe this article's not so crazy after all.
Ian| 12.3.10 @ 9:15AM
Seriously? Just bomb a nuclear power plant? Man, America is getting more and more stupid. I am disappointed and I am just a 12 year old. So sad...
Doctor Right| 12.3.10 @ 11:41AM
Ian:
If you are REALLY 12, then hopefully you're learning about critical reading.
In that regard, NOWHERE did I state, or did the Wikileaks cables state that China would like to bomb North Korea.
The cable indicates a common sense, practical point-of-view that has been embraced by the government of the PRC. Despite their public and financial support of North Korea, China realize that they (North Korea) are a threat to themselves, and to regional stabilization. In that regard, it would be better if North Korea collapsed, and the Korean peninsula was reunified with Seoul (South Korea) in charge.
This is a STUNNING revelation that has received very little press attention. But, it makes perfect sense. China ia slowly abandoning Communism and embracing free markets (so to speak), and they understand that this objective is better served by improved trade relations with a unified, CAPITALIST Korean peninsula.
And yes, Ian...Sometimes, you HAVE to be willing to drop bombs, despite what your leftwing teachers may be telling you in middle school.
rongordo | 12.3.10 @ 6:41PM
...(communist) Seoul...
gav8@cox.net| 12.4.10 @ 1:43AM
Doctor Right, while you may be technically correct -- remember -- the North has nukes. And, when backed into a corner, they would use them. I'm assuming you agree with the author's idea of invading the North. I'm not willing to see millions of South Koreans, Chinese, or our troops die at the hands of the nut job running the North.
If left to its own devices, the North will simply implode under its own weight (China's the only thing holding it up).
JimH| 12.3.10 @ 7:58AM
I suggested on this site about a week or so ago that the Chinese goal in this is to precipite a war between the NOKs and SOKs. The south would win. The rebuilding and reunification would occupy the south for decades, weakening them as a economic and strategic riva and freeing China from the obligation of supporting the northl. And at the end of the war the US military would leave as it would no longer have a mission.
Melvin| 12.3.10 @ 8:06AM
At first comment I would say this might be doable. But one thing sticks in my mind that my wife who attended a Chines School told me.
Chinese Children are taught that the Dragon will one day devour the Eagle. With this simple statement is why I think the above won't have much of a chance. But then again my wife went to this school over 35 years ago, maybe attitudes have changed, but then we're dealing with a Country that is still embracing one party Communist rule.
Robert| 12.5.10 @ 9:43AM
Melvin, What Chinese children weren't taught is that - like Santa Claus and the tooth fairy - there is no such thing as a Dragon!
John DuBose| 12.3.10 @ 8:19AM
How about something even smarter ?
Get the **** out of there and let S Korea and China fix this problem.
Three wars at one time are enough.
Ian| 12.3.10 @ 9:12AM
Wow... You really ARE an amateur, probably one of those who play COD 24/7. If you bomb a nuclear facility, it will have a meltdown therefore blowing up an entire City, or even worse an entire country. Nuclear war isn't one of those stupid cartoon booms. There are radioactive aftermaths. If you really are an amateur don't even bother writing these stories. Your the reason why morons like Osama, Bush, or other stupid figures are in the world. You might think that it might be as easy as that, but to be honest, America's army isn't THE best as we thought it was. If wars are that easy, why are we in Iraq for more than 8 years? Turn off your computer and read a newspaper Dumbass.
irish19| 12.3.10 @ 3:41PM
Ian,
Nuclear power facilities don't work that way. Bombing one will not trigger a meltdown or explosion. The laws ofphysics don't work that way in spite of what you might have been told.
Charles Martel| 12.4.10 @ 12:55AM
That's quite a mouth you have there, 12-year-old. You might want to meditate on the words of Lincoln: "It is better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to open one's mouth and remove all doubt."
There is no question that the world would be better off if the Kims and their accomplices were removed from power. The question is whether China would act to help make the world better off in that particular way, or even whether they would acquiesce while someone else did so.
You have a great deal to learn before you'll be qualified to dispense advice. I recommend that you follow a variation of your own suggestion: turn off the computer and read books, not newspapers.
+++
GavInTucson| 12.4.10 @ 1:51AM
Wow, a meltdown will blow up an entire city? This is a nuclear reactor, not a nitroglycerin factory, and even a nitroglycerin factory couldn't do that. An entire country blowing up? What exactly are you smoking?
ACynic| 12.3.10 @ 9:24AM
Probably the stupidest article I have ever read on spectator.
I have a better idea. Provide S.Korea with all the weapons they want, including nuclear missiles, and let the S. Koreans handle NK.
As for China, they will woo SK with economic goodies (export markets, etc. ) until they bring SK into the Chinese sphere of influence and sever the US /SK millitary alliance. The US is broke and in decline and the whole world knows this. It is just a matter of time and Asia, ex-China, will be swimming in Chinese waters.
davelnaf| 12.3.10 @ 9:53AM
Very funny; but when you’re looking at the situation in Korea a lot of humor is a good, but temporary, anesthetic for reality. But, then, this situation can’t possibly have a good ending so what’s wrong with inventing a somewhat less than awful one?
The author is also not taking into account the fact that in a joint effort China would get one of those rare up close and personal looks at current US military hardware and tactics. This intel might come in handy later.
Dennis Bergendorf| 12.3.10 @ 10:06AM
A couple of comments:
First of all, the military strike would be against the bombs' delivery systems, not the nuclear plants. That could probably be done easily, much like Saddam's C&C and com facilities were quickly taken out.
But I believe Tucker may be misreading the will of China. Maybe they are benevolent, maybe not. But I suppose it wouldn't hurt to try to enlist them in such a grand adventure. Sure, like Lucy and Charlie Brown, they may participate early, only to pull out at the last minute.
However, the biggest obstacle will be the American (and world) Left. Just like Iraq, it'll jump on the side of the "progressive" North Korea, and we'll find ourselves in a protracted military action.
JShizzle| 12.3.10 @ 10:57AM
William HAD to be joking. This had to be satire. Although, to be honest....I would love for somebody, anybody to bomb the hell outta that wacko Kim Jong Il.
Ted R.| 12.3.10 @ 10:58AM
It doesn't sound like a bad idea. But a dramatic action like what the author is supposing is not in the Chinese' style; and anyway, given that it would help us, they're very likely not to go for it. Probably they'll wait until the very last minute, and then invade North Korea before it implodes. They might take the same occasion to seize by force disputed areas in the Yellow Sea.
WGMOW| 12.3.10 @ 11:39AM
"...the Chinese have never been a particularly belligerent nation and don't seem bent on conquest."
Dude, have you ever hear of Ghengis Khan? And the Chinese are ALREADY conquering the world, but because they are waging economic war you just don't see it.
wukong| 12.3.10 @ 11:52AM
Hate to spoil your day, but Ghengis Khan was a Mongol and not Chinese. Your ignorant post is like considering the Turks to be Greeks since they live along side each other.
Stuart Koehl| 12.3.10 @ 2:11PM
Ever hear of Kubulai Khan, then?
Quartermaster| 12.3.10 @ 6:24PM
Kublai Khan was the grandson of Genghis Kahn and was a Mongol too.
Stuart Koehl| 12.5.10 @ 5:44PM
And Napoleon Bonaparte was a Corsican. Your point?
You might ask China's neighbors whether China is an expansionist country. Their memories might be longer than yours.
T1Brit| 12.3.10 @ 11:59AM
Seriously - did you even do 30 seconds research before writing this?
The problem is not Nuclear weapons - the problem is the gigantic conventional artillery forces that are dug deep into the hillsides north of Seoul.
There would be no way to stop the North from turning Seoul into a pile of rubble full of corpses within 20 minutes of the start of any war.
Charles Martel| 12.4.10 @ 1:02AM
Almost. There is one way: the neutron bomb. Those guns aren't going to fire themselves if their crews are suddenly and simultaneously reduced to piles of radioactive meat.
+++
GavInTucson| 12.4.10 @ 2:12AM
The only problem with your theory is that the majority of the casualties caused by a neutron bomb detonation don't die instantly. They'll linger on for days or weeks before succumbing to radiation sickness (plenty of time to launch a counter offensive).
Stuart Koehl| 12.5.10 @ 5:48PM
I've written here several times already why the artillery in the fortified Y-sites along the DMZ are much less of a threat today than they were even a decade ago. To make a long story short, extended surveillance with multi-spectral sensors has already shown us where the majority of the sites are, while precision guided, bunker-and-cave busting munitions have rendered them as vulnerable as towed artillery deployed in the open. With Laser-Assisted JDAMs equipped with thermobaric warheads, there is no need to resort to nuclear weapons of any sort. It is unlikely that any of the Y-sites would survive the first day of any conflict.
T1Brit| 12.5.10 @ 7:11PM
What about the first hour?
Look what they did to that island in a short time.
Seoul would be devastated - and I am not at all sure that bunker busters can penetrate tens of metres of solid rock. How deep are those guns buried ?
Stuart Koehl| 12.5.10 @ 8:46PM
"Look what they did to that island in a short time."
Not very much, actually. And nobody attempted to suppress the North Korean fire as soon as it began. Don't extrapolate from a single small scale incident into a major conflict.
In any case, while there probably would be widespread damage to Seoul, it is a massive conurbation, and it would take many days of continuous bombardment to lay it waste (take as examples the Syrian city of Hama, or the Israeli bombardment of Beirut). Any damage to Seoul could be repaired in relatively short order. South Korea has a very extensive civil defense system, too, so civilian casualties would be minimized.
As for destroying the Y-sites, no need to go through the roof, when you can go in the door. Each Y-site consists of a tunnel bored into a ridge opening into two firing positions overlooking the southern side of the DMZ. While the firing positions are protected by blast doors, these are relatively thin and easily penetrated. An explosion inside the entrance to the Y-site will bring down the roof, in addition to dismounting the gun. Thermobaric warheads worked wonders on the caves of Tora Bora, many of which are on par with the Y-sites, and more difficult to hit because of the terrain.
axbucxdu| 12.5.10 @ 11:16PM
Well then, since the ROK has everything under control, the US military is redundant on the Korean peninsula.
T1Brit| 12.5.10 @ 7:15PM
Neutron bombs would have no effect whatsoever on troops dug more than a few metres underground
Stuart Koehl| 12.5.10 @ 8:48PM
Absolutely correct. A neutron bomb or enhanced radiation warhead is a fission-fusion device in which prompt radiation effects (x-ray and gamma ray) are magnified in proportion to the blast effect. While they would certainly do for any troops in the open, troops underground would not be affected in the least. You use neutron bombs on the North Korean second echelon forces.
Old Soldier| 12.3.10 @ 12:02PM
Sounds great - all you have to do is convince South Korea to let the Chinese meddle in their government and re-write their constitution. And believe that Chinese will actually leave them in peace when it's over. I'm sure the Chinese leaders are thinking how they want a really strong, free, rich, and dynamic country right on their border. A country with a high-tech military (I'm talking SK) and the ability to build real nuclear weapons (multi-stage H-bombs not the NK duds) and delivery systems over a long weekend.
Most naive thing I've read in a long time.
David Dennis | 12.3.10 @ 1:11PM
I'm surprised nobody's mentioned Taiwan. China has made belligerent sounds about them for decades, and their feelings have not declined with time.
I'll give William credit for thinking outside of the box, though.
D
lol| 12.3.10 @ 3:01PM
That's internal affairs of China.
Nobody disputes Taiwan as a part of "China", it just depends which China you are talking about (typically it's Red China, not Nationalist China)
Roy| 12.3.10 @ 9:56PM
Actually plenty of Taiwanese are sick of this legal fiction and would chuck it in a minute if the Chinese would not respond by dropping bombs on them.
Stuart Koehl| 12.5.10 @ 5:49PM
William needs to remember that the enemy of my enemy is the enemy of my enemy. Nothing more, and nothing less.
CalMark| 12.3.10 @ 2:03PM
Stopped reading at the part about China not being bent on conquest. Really? What about Taiwan? And what about China's resurrection of Japan's 1930s "Greater East Asia Co-Prosperity Sphere?"
As for allying ourselves with China to defeat North Korea--what foolish naivete. Tucker acknowledges that they're close allies. If the Chinese didn't LIKE the NorKos the way they are, they'd do something about it.
Old Soldier| 12.3.10 @ 2:12PM
It's not like the Chinese are holding their country together by force... cough, Tibet, cough...
Stuart Koehl| 12.5.10 @ 5:50PM
Don't forget Sinkiang and the western provinces, either.
tombaty| 12.3.10 @ 2:17PM
Please don't give Obama any more ideas on foreign policy. He has enough bad ones on his own without someone elses help. Bad concept all the way around. How soon we have forgotten the early"90s with some young man standing up to a Chicom tank. I wonder how many of those freedom fighters are still in reeducation??? Not to mention a certain individual who was not allowed to collect his Noble Peace price. Sounds like a lefters pipe dream.
Tom
TMK| 12.3.10 @ 3:04PM
I served in the US Army in South Korea. Mr. Tucker's flip comment about a two week war is sickening. It could very well be that a war would last only about 2 weeks before the North gives up the ghost. But I suppose Mr. Tucker is forgetting about the hundreds of thousands of people that would die in those two weeks, including perhaps 10,000 Americans.
A war on the Korean peninsula would be a catastrophe.
GavInTucson| 12.4.10 @ 2:17AM
Not to mention the nukes that NK could launch in the process. It would be like tripping over a dollar to pick up a dime.
Stuart Koehl| 12.5.10 @ 5:51PM
I haven't seen any evidence that China has a suitable delivery system for the primitive (and unreliable) nuclear weapons at its disposal.
Also, I can't foresee how the U.S. could suffer 10,000 fatalities in any war with North Korea, absent total incompetence on our part.
LOL| 12.3.10 @ 3:31PM
TO THE AUTHOR
Reunified Korea will need trillions of dollars for reconstruction after war right? Impoverished North needs A LOT OF MONEY....
South Korea can promise China opportunities to invest in Korea for reconstruction.
China has $2.7 TRILLION DOLLARS to throw around in her foreign currency surplus account.
China will obviously insist on no US troops, since they will be obsolete once Korea is reunified and North Korea is gone.
If China invests some of her $2.7 trillion in rebuilding Korea, with S. Korea promising lucrative commercial deals in exchange for not supporting the North and kick out the US - wouldn't that technically constitute "economic dominance" instead of "military dominance" of Korea?
China will OWN the Korean economy....
RCM| 12.3.10 @ 4:41PM
Or we could end up trying all of that and end up with China repo-ing our country since most of our 13 trillion dollar debt goes to them and they take over South Korea. As a more probable solution since their industrial revolution will put them at number 1 in the world and they have the natural resources we us for missal guidance systems.
Rick Whiteduck| 12.3.10 @ 5:15PM
What makes you think that China is on our side?
believer| 12.3.10 @ 5:36PM
We could become a territory of China, let them come in and assume our debt, throw out the idiots in Washington, and then China would fix our schools, bring back our Manufacturing base, and cut crime dramatically. Then in 5 years we could have another Revolution and start over.
gary siebel| 12.3.10 @ 5:54PM
WTF
Has everybody gotten so polarized they can no longer recognize A Modest Proposal?
Charles Martel| 12.4.10 @ 1:05AM
Are you suggesting that we *eat* the North Koreans?
Heh heh.
+++
Stuart Koehl| 12.5.10 @ 5:52PM
Not much meat on them, is there? Kim excepted, of course.
Thom| 12.3.10 @ 6:55PM
William, taking what you say at “face” value which is something you can never do with an Asian mindset, I recommend you stay in the areas you have some expertise on.
For the sake of argument assuming the Chinese would agree to the general outline of your plan here is the reality of what you suggest. The NK military is twice the size of the SK military and the bulk of that forward deployed and dug in around the DMZ which has the world’s largest and highest density of mine fields and barriers in the world. The defender in this situation has considerable advantages also. Breaking through this and the resultant casualties both military and civilian that would result around Seoul alone would be in the hundreds of thousands within the first week. Not to paint too fine a point on this but the SK military is not oriented toward such an offensive operation and we can’t sneak in the ground or air forces we would need to make this plausible. Assuming again that the NKs were asleep and we accomplished this by pulling out the bulk of our combat forces from Iraq and Afghanistan and shipped the US bound units trained and ready for combat there and actually carried out this plan, the Chinese would die of boredom waiting for us in Pyongyang because they have nothing in their way. What happens then is I suspect they just sit tight after we’ve taken tens of thousands of casualties and the SK military and their economy is wrecked beyond repair. It would cost them virtually nothing to accomplish what I’ve just outlined if we and the SK military bear the burden of having to grind through the DMZ and such.
As others have pointed out, the Chinese would benefit from any Korean peninsula conflict that did not go nuclear and the obvious wide card in this equation is would NK actually use what weapons it has. In my humble opinion I believe their primary reason for developing such weapons is to guarantee such an outcome is extremely costly. The economic blackmail is secondary to their ultimate reason here. To be blunt anything that results in a repeat of the operations that took place in 1950 will make what we’ve seen since WWII look like a training exercise. The shear offensive power positioned just north of the DMZ dwarfs what the SKs have and it would take weeks if not months to increase that substantially with our muscle. The ultimate outcome may not be in question but the ultimate cost of such an endeavor would make even the “hawks” shutter a bit.
I understand the isolationist/pacifist/Union thug mindset with regard to throwing our trading partners and allies to the wolves but I’m not sure I understand yours? NK is not Iraq or Afghanistan. These people have lived under hardship for over 60 years now. It is personnel with them. Short of taking their nuclear option off the table with certainty, the cost of this operation in human terms with conventional weapons (including chemical weapons they have in large numbers) would be enormous. One actual use of any kind of nuclear weapon would have far ranging consequences beyond that. Look at a map William particularly around the Seoul area. Seoul is the center of the universe in SK for all things economic. It is also within range of all their heavy long range artillery, rockets and about 4 minutes by high speed aircraft from the DMZ to the heart of Seoul. Only one weapon has to make it through to make all the conventional causalities pale by comparison and much of Seoul would be unusable for generations. I suspect the Chinese would love your plan. It gives them cover to occupy the ground without having to actually pay the cost for that ground.
Sun Zu would understand completely the advantages your plan has for the Chinese.
Dean from Ohio| 12.3.10 @ 9:06PM
So the Middle Kingdom of Peace just wants to be left alone.Hmmm. But there's that military strategy that views the U.S. as the enemy, and is building up their forces to neutralize ours. Oh, and Chinese tentacles stretching to all our choke points, including the Caribbean and the Panama Canal (google Whampoa). And the Chinese President palling around with South American dictators. And building the Great Firewall of China, preparing to neutralize our military with cyber warfare. And irresponsible antisatellite tests that increase the amount of dangerous space junk by 25% in a single strike. And Chinese-scale thievery of our military secrets. And reaching into Afghanistan. And helping send nuclear bomb technology, parts and material to Iran. And having a Chinese foreign minister who publicly threatens to nuke L.A.
That's off the top of my head.
Alan Brooks| 12.3.10 @ 10:26PM
...And if China is not belligerent, who will tell that to Tibetan exiles?
Dr. Risk| 12.3.10 @ 11:28PM
“protect South Korea from being invaded by the North, as it was in 1949”
If you Google this—and why didn’t the editor at The American Spectator—you will learn that North Korea invaded South Korea in June 1950. It doesn’t get much sloppier than this. Which speaks volumes about his analytical abilities.
Charles Martel| 12.4.10 @ 1:09AM
That and the reference to "the Jong dynasty".
Still, one can dream.
+++
Dean from Ohio| 12.5.10 @ 11:41PM
That was in the year of the ding-dong, when Kim Jong Il 1.5 was born, I think, which spans 1949 and 1950 in the Western calendar
Heywood| 12.4.10 @ 12:59AM
Any war should be avoided at all costs. And there is no such thing as limited warfare--you have no idea how a war will end--could never end and last 100 years or longer. You just don't know!
BackToBasics| 12.4.10 @ 1:19AM
from the article:
"We may one day regain our equilibrium and out-compete China on that score"
This will not happen until we get over this nonsense of political correctness. We have to stop demonizing white males and allow them and all people in this country to be hired based on merit and stop the quota hiring.
PCP Smoker| 12.4.10 @ 1:23AM
Interesting idea. Let's call this forthcoming pact, the "Non Aggression Pact".
I'm actually sick of these ingrates who get bailed out by 'Murica at the cost of our boys. A couple of years back, the South was blasting 'Murica's "imperialism" and seeking to reconcile with the North.
Let's pull out, let the Koreans fight it out. If the Norks win, they'll soon be eating each other, along with grass and bark. If the South win, they'll soon be lost in video games and internet scams.
GavInTucson| 12.4.10 @ 2:22AM
That was actually pretty damned funny.
Frank Rizzo| 12.4.10 @ 3:06AM
Come on air strike.. Let's kill those North Koreans causing trouble. LOL!! Notice how they refuse to do it for all of these years. They are scared of North Korea, because Korean's are very smart.. If you drop a bomb on implanted Nuclear Bombs that are set off on destruction.. guess what you have.. a HUGE explosion... I really don't want to think about how crazy North is. .
Frank Rizzo| 12.4.10 @ 3:20AM
I don't think you get it. He doesn't care about his country, his people, or anything. He hates everyone and he's not scared. Imagine a suicide bomber holding a Nuclear Bomb waiting to activate it. You have this clown 100 percent. He doesn't care.. He will blow up his own Country to kill everyone.. He has no soul.
James A| 12.4.10 @ 7:58AM
This writer is smoking crack. China is basically a peaceful nation that has never invaded ayone? They started a war with every country on their border in the last 50 years in the name of self defense. I have no doubt that China would like to see a unified korea because then all their spies in north korea can get south a lot easier. Then obamarama would pull us out in a flash.
If Bush were still president China would not want a unified korea. If china wanted a unified korea they would take out the north and let the south have at it.
Zlatko Milanovic| 12.4.10 @ 10:17AM
This is a great idea, but both nations must strike hard and fast, with massive force to overwhelm the NKPA.
Area 51| 12.4.10 @ 10:37AM
We need to think outside of the box ... Let's get the NoKos and the SoKos together and along with Taiwan, we all invade China for a grand old time...yeah, that's the ticket!
Ned the Red| 12.4.10 @ 11:45AM
Only one way this will work, but first we have to start the draft, form hundreds of new army divisions, sneak them into South Korea, or rather Korea, then launch Operation "Red Dragon" on our new allies. We will use a three pronged assault with Army Group West, Center, and East. Our new buddies the Red Chinese will be so surprised at our duplicity that they will fall back in record setting retreats while we employ our new type of warfare called Tommyfrankinkrieg.
Even though President Obama has never served in the military, he has played a lot of basketball, including suffering injury and earning the prestigious “Iron Lip” he will take direct control of operations and bench any generals who do not put out maximum effort.
The audacity of this plan will ensure its success and afterwards leave us open to new conquests.
S.L. Toddard| 12.4.10 @ 4:58PM
What is this, 2003? Yes by all means let's invade another country. After all, our economy is booming and we can easily afford Big Government's massive military and multiple ongoing wars as they are. Why not start a third? Wait - we're already starting a third in Pakistan. Why not a fourth? Oh dear that's right we are already starting a fourth in Yemen or something. Well, fifth time's a charm, I hear.
Anyway it's good to know the conservative punditocracy has learned their lessons from the aughts. I especially appreciate the author admitting he's "just an amateur at this with no particular expertise in international relations" before cavalierly demanding American men be sent far from their mothers and sons and daughters to die executing his dreams of glorious conquest.
And they said the day of the Sofa Samurai was over. Like heck!
Beer for My Horses| 12.4.10 @ 5:49PM
W. Tucker,
I suppose you deserve some credit for thinking outside the box, as it were, but the risks are simply unacceptable.
Imagine if N.Korea manages to lob just one crude nuclear weapon in to downtown Seoul. The leadership there is just crazy (and desparate) enough to try it.
Keep thinking, though. Your ideas are often amusing, if not practical.
Patzer| 12.5.10 @ 9:28AM
They simply need to offer NK's entire military equal rank and SK-based pay in the unified Korean Army once they deliver the bodies of the Kims to Seoul. Problem solved.
Frank| 12.5.10 @ 4:11PM
I always enjoy someone using the possessive plural when talking about sending warriors into combat. Who's "WE" Bill? You're not doing squat! My assumption is your not planning on doing the fighting. Is that right?
Korean| 12.5.10 @ 4:38PM
Is it so easy for you guys to say to make a war happen in Korean peninsula? Is that your view of international relations? Have you ever even involved any kind of wars personally?
When are you going to be a real big brother of the wordl? After Chinese become a world leader? Could it too late? Please act like as who you are...if not, someday, China will be a world leader and then they will dicusss that let's make a war happen in North America (for whatever reason) and Korean might support it...you never know.
WAR? INVASION? Even if it is your country, are you going to willing to say like that?
Please be smart..that is only thing you are hopping to you guys.
ironhorzmn| 12.5.10 @ 7:11PM
As a completely abstract theory, it might work...IF.
Better minds than I know more about the chances of success.
Something to consider; if the US is into 'liberating' millions of people, one of the chief justifications for the Iraq War, North Korea's 20 million slaves cry out even louder for liberation.
chris haynes| 12.5.10 @ 9:27PM
We are NOT at war in Yemen. General Petreus has denied that we are!!!!!
Who are you to accuse an AMERICAN MILITARY OFFICER of lying to the American People?
"Cadets dont lie or cheat or tollerate those who do." Duty honor country. The long gray line. Our brave military, give them this. They got a good sense of humor. What a hoot.
hitler| 12.5.10 @ 9:31PM
Nuke those chinks. Take out china too. We dotn need no yellow bastards
JustanAmerican| 12.5.10 @ 11:05PM
"They do have an atomic bomb, remember. Suppose they sink the carrier? What do we do then? Isn't this how the Vietnam War started, with a series of half measures that provoked half measures from the other side until it was too late to turn back?"
Nuking or sinking a carrier is a half measure? Ok skippy, run along and let the grownups talk now....
aroaro| 12.6.10 @ 4:29AM
arrr William. You are indeed god's Fool, bless you boy. "..let them go back to eating grass..' - this would be a crime against the Leader, an act of dissidence and unacceptable selfishness, obviously, since every blade of grass in the DPRK grows for the glory of the Beloved one. Obviously mice are, therefore, off the menu.
Feed 'em or fight 'em boys. It never changes. Until it changes conclusively. Perhaps convulsively.
Michael| 12.6.10 @ 5:42AM
This is the best article I read this year! It's exactly the answer for Korea. And I'm a Korean. North Korea is truly the first insane country in this world has ever seen. One note here. The North Koreans think that Jungil Kim and his father Ilsung Kim created sun and moon and water. Enough said about that shitty country. We have to get rid of Jungil and his crazy son before it gets worse.
Jim Wilson | 12.6.10 @ 4:41PM
This is China's chance to show it's international muscle and maybe even get a Nobel Prize for whoever of them negotiates the reconciliation. They're going to demonstrate that in their neck of the woods they're the real power, they're the best negotiator, and the USA had better find somewhere else to play. And with a minimum of fuss and bother. They couldn't care less about a few dead South Koreans, and who will bother about that when the greater good is at stake? Can't make an omelette without a few broken eggs.
ampontan | 12.7.10 @ 10:40AM
I couldn't tell if it was a stupid article or not. I got to this part:
"At the same time, the Chinese have never been a particularly belligerent nation and don't seem bent on conquest. "
...and stopped. They may not be bent on conquest, but they'll be satisfied with turning all of their neighbors (with the exception of Russia) into vassal states, similar to the arrangement of several centuries ago.
Those who don't submit will be subject to their belligerence.
Or haven't you been reading about what's been happening in the East and South China Seas with Vietnam and Japan?
ampontan | 12.7.10 @ 10:41AM
I couldn't tell if it was a stupid article or not. I got to this part:
"At the same time, the Chinese have never been a particularly belligerent nation and don't seem bent on conquest. "
...and stopped. They may not be bent on conquest, but they'll be satisfied with turning all of their neighbors (with the exception of Russia) into vassal states, similar to the arrangement of several centuries ago.
Those who don't submit will be subject to their belligerence.
Or haven't you been reading about what's been happening in the East and South China Seas with Vietnam and Japan?
abby saini| 7.3.11 @ 11:46PM
i think....i have a hunch chinese will never comply with you idea because they will never agree to disown and betray their closest ally much less invade it. Second thing is even if China's leadership even starts to consider it, they will have to contend with the ridicule of the world in reagrd to a communist nation attacking another communist nation. This will certainly be a nail in the coffin for already dying communist agenda globally if not just in China. Third and foremost factor is RUSSIA as it will not just sit and keep watching two countries of its dying communist club, turning on each other on strings puppeteered by US.
Adult toys | 7.4.11 @ 4:03AM
Q:what is the strongest muscle?
A:the tongue—it can raise a woman’s hips.
Q:what is the lightest muscle?
A:the penis—it can be raised by a tongue.
Rafa| 9.16.11 @ 10:05PM
Guys, I am Chinese - yes, 100% Han Chinese, born in Jiangsu Province - and I say that I like South Korea much more than North Korea. The Northern filth must go. Besides, the Chinese DO like South Koreans more than the North:
http://www.pewglobal.org/2006/.....e-another/
www.eai.or.kr/data/bbs/eng_rep.....593630.pdf