This may be news to the Obama administration, but there are ways
to deter Korea's black hole.
North Korea's shelling ofYeonpyeongIsland in the Yellow Sea is the third such incident since
last November. Then, the North Koreans exchanged gunfire with South
Korean naval forces resulting in two North Korean deaths. The
second was North Korea's sinking of the South Korean destroyer
Cheonan in March.
As you read this, the USS George Washington and
its battle group are conducting exercises with South Korean forces
in the southern Yellow Sea, not too far from Yeonpyeong Island.
Both North Korea and China have condemned the exercises. China is
pushing for a high-level meeting of the parties to the "Six-Party
Talks" -- the U.S., Japan, both Koreas, and Russia -- to ease
tensions in the area. But those talks are aimed at North Korea's
nuclear program and have nothing to do with their attacks in the
southern Yellow Sea.
The Yellow Sea is China's Caribbean: it claims a 200-mile
exclusive economic zone that almost reaches Yeonpyeong Island, very
near the area in which the naval exercises are taking place. China
is North Korea's biggest ally and trading partner. We often say
that North Korea is under China's control, and that its aggressive
acts couldn't be undertaken without Chinese acquiescence or
agreement. But it's not at all clear that China -- which clearly
has enormous leverage over the impoverished North Koreans -- has
that level of day-to-day control of North Korea's acts.
Calling North Korea impoverished is both a great
understatement and a misstatement. My favorite picture of the
Korean Peninsula was taken by a U.S. spy satellite on one night in
early 2006. It shows South Korea ablaze with lights in every city
and town. In the North, only the capital of Pyongyang is lit. The
rest of the country is pitch black. Most North Koreans live cold,
hungry, and in the dark, but their government lives
well.
So far, China is apparently trying to calm the situation.
While North Korea's press blares more threats, China's Xinhua News
Agency is publishing rather bland stories about the incident and
the U.S.-South Korea military exercises.
If North Korea wanted war, it could restart the Korean War
in a matter of minutes by attacking with missiles or other forces
across the demilitarized zone. If it sought only to provoke South
Korea and America, it could mount a smaller attack off its east
coast.
But the fact that the three incidents in the last year all
took place in the Yellow Sea means that the three attacks are meant
to draw China in as well. If the Chinese knew of the incidents
before they took place and approved North Korea's actions, the
Chinese would be extending their protective military umbrella over
North Korea's provocations.
So what does North Korea want? And how should we and South
Korea respond to its latest act of murderous aggression?
North Korea has accomplished much of what it wanted. It
waited eight months after sinking the Cheonan for a
response from South Korea, and didn't see one. By the latest
attack, North Korea has already brought about the resignation of
South Korea's defense minister and may have destabilized the South
Korean government. Massive protests in Seoul by South Korean
military veterans have demanded a forceful response, and at least
one South Korean general has vowed revenge.
South Korea has already had one prime minister fall this
year, and the new P.M., Lee Myung-bak, is perched precariously on
his seat. And the effects of the latest attack are being felt in
Tokyo. Japanese Prime Minister Naoto Kan has ordered his cabinet to
remain in Tokyo for the next several days, anticipating a greater
crisis.
What to do?
First, the United States should restore North Korea to its
proper place as a nation designated as a state sponsor of
terrorism. This would effectively interfere with -- and probably
interdict -- most financial transactions with North Korea. Given
North Korea's proliferation activities -- including construction of
the Syrian nuclear plant that Israeli jets destroyed three years
ago -- there's more than enough justification for that
action.
The Bush administration lifted the designation as an
incentive to North Korea in the Six-Party Talks. But those talks --
like the negotiations we've had with North Korea off and on for
about fifteen years -- are an abject failure. There is no agreement
we've made -- or will ever make -- with North Korea that they will
abide by. Every time we receive their blood oaths to stop nuclear
development and proliferation, the North Koreans proceed at full
speed doing their best to conceal their actions.
Second, we should reject China's call for urgent
consultations of the Six Party Talks participants, instead
convening a meeting of a core group of the nations that are a party
to the Proliferation Security Initiative. The PSI, begun in 2003,
is aimed at enforcement of proliferation bans on nuclear and other
weapons of mass destruction. It proved its worth several times,
intercepting -- in one case -- the shipment of nuclear materials to
Libya, which precipitated Libya's surrender of its nuclear program
to the United States. The PSI began with sixteen nations and has
grown to ninety, an impossibly unproductive number. Let's start
with a small group of six or seven and call it
"PSI-Korea."
The PSI-Korea group should be called together to create
and implement a plan of action designed for the sole purpose of
preventing any further shipment of nuclear or missile materials
from North Korea to any nation or group.
Third, and not last in importance, we should urge a
regional alliance with Japan and South Korea to help them defend
themselves -- and each other -- against further North Korean
aggression. This would be a big step for Japan, but a necessary one
because a re-armed Japan -- capable of ballistic missile defense
and other measures -- would be a necessary predicate to any such
agreement. Were Japan to grow in military strength, North Korea
would be more effectively contained.
Will the Obama administration do any of this? Almost
certainly not. Which will leave North Korea undeterred. It is
probably the most dangerously unpredictable country in the world.
And its next act of aggression -- and there will be one -- may
result in a South Korean response that will kick off the Second
Korean War.
About the Author
Jed Babbin served as a Deputy Undersecretary of Defense under George H.W. Bush. He is the author of several bestselling books including Inside the Asylum and In the Words of Our Enemies.
And what if all China wants is to get us entangled in a threat
that would cause them to call for war on the U.S.?
Tom| 11.29.10 @ 7:46AM
What purpose would war with the US serve China?
Old Soldier| 11.29.10 @ 8:12AM
Really. China would lose their most lucrative market. And, our
first attack would be financial - by refusing to ever repay all the
U.S. debt they hold.
Troy| 11.29.10 @ 9:53AM
Just like Germany lost it's biggest trading partner by going to
war with France over 70 years ago?
Tom| 11.29.10 @ 10:20AM
France did not have the ability to drop hydrogen bombs on
Germany.
Old Soldier| 11.29.10 @ 1:22PM
And the Germans didn't have to cross an ocean against the
world's largest Navy to get to France.
SpiralArchitect| 11.29.10 @ 2:34PM
"Just like Germany lost it's biggest trading partner by going to
war with France over 70 years ago?"
Germany's goal was geared toward expansion.
Not the best parabel for the China / US war scenario.
Unlikely China aspires toward the conquest of America & her
territory.
Forget not, the Korean War is only in 'truce' status...
Thomas| 11.29.10 @ 9:42AM
China, like most nations, is not a business entity. Commerce is
merely another battleground to extend the dominance of the State
beyond its current borders. It is not interested in making money or
selling widgets, it is interested in expanding its dominance,
particularly in East Asia. The only real impediment to that
expansion is the United States.
Nations are not GM, or IBM, or any other commercial entity. They
exist to dominate and control, not to make money. Money is simply a
means to an end.
George| 11.29.10 @ 4:55PM
You are correct about China's desire to expand its sphere of
influence, but Chinese officials are subject to the desires of
other human beings, to live in big houses, drive nice cars and have
other material possessions. Ambitions that include perpetual
aggression do not fit well into schemes.
Thomas| 11.29.10 @ 10:42PM
Most states do not plan "perpetual" aggression, simply enough
aggression to achieve the desires of the leadership.
inge| 11.30.10 @ 12:00AM
It would be simply a powerplay by China; they own us, remember?
Besides, the recent missile in California was sent by China; they
sent a message to the 'smart power team' in DC, but was ignored.
Not a peep, or explanation by our betters, it's definately amateur
hour.
PBSD| 11.29.10 @ 3:53PM
China desiring war on the US when we owe them trillions of
dollars is akin to blowing up your savings account! There is no
sense to that stragety. Better be careful, they might demand all
that we owe from the Iraq and Afghanistan wars in which we might
have to sell land...ie a state! How about Texas?
Quartermaster| 11.29.10 @ 6:26PM
I'd go for Taxachussetts and San Francisco.
Christopher Holland| 11.30.10 @ 12:45AM
Why would anybody want California? It would be like volunteering
to have herpes. The Chinese aren't that stupid.
Ken (Old Texican)| 11.29.10 @ 7:27AM
Jed,
You put your finger on the problem.
There is no WILL in the whitehouse.
My new E-novel www.texassaidno.com addresses the dangers we face
from an AWOL CinC.
We need not expect anything concrete from the White House. More
conferences, meetings, PSIs, whatever. Until South Korea is willing
to stand up for itself the free-world certainly won't. Another war
with China? It will not be limited this time.
Christopher Holland| 11.30.10 @ 12:50AM
There is no reason for a war. The position of China is quite
weak- they have to import a lot of oil and export across the
Pacific to a debtor country that has a large navy and and that owes
them a lot of money. What happens if America says 'see you later'?
The Chinese are not in a good position to throw their weight around
because there is a large boot that can rest on their neck. It
belongs to America.
GavInTucson| 11.30.10 @ 2:28AM
I wouldn't exactly call the Chinese position weak. Our position
is certainly weak, economically. China is now our banker, very much
like the United States became Europe's banker, starting with WWI
(and we've seen Europe's empires fall during the 20th century).
Make no mistake, China's got us by the short and curlies,
economically. The only "boot" we really have is nuclear weapons,
and we most certainly won't use those.
Even if we defaulted with China it wouldn't hurt them that much.
Europe did much the same in the 20th century with us, and we arose
as a superpower because of it (while they fell as an economic
power).
We've spent the last 20+ years taxing and regulating business
out of our own country and into theirs (with NAFTA claiming first
place). We're reaping what we've sown.
Prophet| 11.29.10 @ 8:27AM
What does North Korea want?? South Korea.
Invasion and war are inevitable.
MacDaddy| 11.29.10 @ 8:46AM
What does North Korea want? What China TELLS them to want.
Anyone who dismisses the presence of the hand of the Chinese
puppet-master up Kim's back is dwelling in the land of
denial....China sees a weakened US, both economically and
politically. For centuries, they have patiently sought hegemony in
Eastern Asia...but four blocks stood in their way. Those blocks
were Hong Kong and the British protectorate of same, and Taiwan,
Japan and South Korea...all supported by the United States. Hong
Kong fell to them 10 years ago. Now they see the opportunity to
claim the other three. These activities are nothing less than the
Chinese, through their North Korean dupes, probing the seriousness
of the U.S. commitment to South Korea. They seek destabilization
and weakening of the resolve in both SoKo and the US....and they
have achieved it. The Obama administration is collectively peeing
in their pants. Next will come increasingly hostile rhetoric
directed at Taiwan. Never forget Sun Tsu. The Chinese seek to win
the battle without firing a shot. They seek to win by turning
allies against each other. They seek to win by outwaiting and
outwitting their adversaries. But always, they seek to win....
Ned| 11.29.10 @ 12:28PM
And they are VERY, VERY patient. "Long term" to the US is 8 - 1o
years... "long term" to the Chinese is 80 - 100...
GavInTucson| 11.30.10 @ 2:33AM
I fear you're correct. I also fear that the invasion will come
from the North, and not the other way around.
A sixty-year score has been largely unsettled, and the
communists are busily playing tic-tac-toe on the chalk board.
Deborah D| 11.29.10 @ 8:32AM
Weakness provokes aggression. A weak USA provokes aggression
worldwide. A weak South Korea provokes aggression on their
doorstep. What's so difficult about what most kids learned in
kindergarten -- you have to stand up to bullies or you're going to
get bloodied. Start building your nuclear arsenals, South Korea and
Japan, you can't count on the US any longer.
WTF| 11.29.10 @ 8:41AM
According to Go Yeong -jae, the South Korean Coast Guard captain
who rescued 56 of the Cheonon crew, he "received an order that a
naval patrol vessel had run aground in the waters to the southwest
of Baenguyyeong Island, and that we were to move there quickly to
rescue them."
{The Cheonan was a frigate, not a destroyer.}
There is some doubt that a submarine could even operate in the
shallow water there.
davelnaf| 11.29.10 @ 9:16AM
The Choenan was raised from a depth of about 147 feet (45
meters).
davelnaf| 11.29.10 @ 9:02AM
Seoul cannot allow North Korea shell the capital. If another
provocation comes it will likely invade the DMZ to capture and push
back NK’s forces. The USS Washington group is there to support this
move.
NK will lose the war and lose it rather quickly. Will this bring
China in? They have an awful lot to lose; beginning with seeing
their economy tank in about a month.
And there is the suspicion that China has been using NK as its
Pit Bull to help keep the neighbors in line and win a few important
concessions here and there. But if war broke out NK would soon be
making frantic calls for China to come to its aid. Something in
these messages might suggest linkage between them to aid and abet
NKs activities in the last few decades. Does China really want this
dirt to come to light, especially in the aftermath of a war that
could cost possibly tens of thousands of lives?
dac| 11.29.10 @ 10:59AM
Do you seriously think that when (not if) the Norks threaten
Seoul with a nuclear missile attack, our very own dear Il Duce
Negro will order the GW carrier group to do anything other than
stand down and wait for orders from Beijing? I'd love to sample
whatever it is you're drinking.
Unlike the S. Koreans and this American administration, the Norks
the Chinese are willing to kill millions of people who mean nothing
to them, but whose deaths would advance their long term goals.
China would become the unquestioned ruler of its own "Greater
East-Asia Co-Prosperity Sphere," and Japan and S Korea would become
vassal states to it. Over the long term, of course. Why not test
the only other power in the Pacific that might be interested in a
different outcome? Why not now, when that power is least likely to
be used. Note that the GW carrier group is staying well outside the
claimed 200 mile EEZ...an obvious sign that the US will do
nothing.
The only bonus for America is that when the Norks pop off, it will
expose in bloody terms the complete failure of Il Duce's and
Hilary's State Dept foreign policy. Neither of them will look too
clever with half of Seoul in smoking, radioactive ruins.
George | 11.29.10 @ 5:01PM
I doubt that the RoK would cross the DMZ, but I suspect that an
artillery exchange would be possible. The DMZ is a mess of mines
and traps that would make such a venture very costly. If anyone is
prepared to cross the DMZ it would be the DPRK.
Paul| 11.29.10 @ 10:59AM
Mr. Babbin, Lee Myung Bak is South Korea's president, not prime
minister. Please do your homework.
Al Abad| 11.29.10 @ 12:13PM
North Korea is just playing their extortion game once again.
Just as they did in the 90's under Clinton (when he bought them off
by giving the reactors- real smart) they look to a weak White House
to pay some blackmail to their advantage. Obviously this is once
again the course this President will follow. Although, the
possibility that he is so inept as to cause dangerous
miscalculations (ala August 1914) remains.
Yosemeti Sam| 11.29.10 @ 12:53PM
Don't you just - love it:
SOS Clinton:
Erstwhile studious insider observer of Bubbas' then SOS
Albrights' successful negotiation skills/waltzs/drinks with shortie
Stalin II.
Now as emulative SOS practitioner in her own right in the high
art of baloney diplomacy with shortie Stalin II.
LOL.
WTF| 11.29.10 @ 12:59PM
davelnaf, the depth that the Cheonan was raised from doesn't
tell me anything definitive. We're not dealing with a swimming pool
here.
James A.| 11.29.10 @ 1:26PM
Oh I am so tired of hearing from the nuclear weapons whiners. A
tactical nuke is nothing more than a tactical nuke. If you want to
end the nuclear extortion from North Korea is to transfer about 25
tactical nukes and their delivery systems into South Korea's
Military. Nothing more than a 15 to 30 kiloton warheads. You then
have mutual asure destruction. If the north uses nukes, the south
responds and vise versa. then you encourage and help South Korea
and Japan start their own nuclear weapons programs. You will be
amazed how quickly China sees it our way on North Korea knowing
they will have 2 other Nuclear armed states on their borders other
than us. I am sorry say what you will. A fully armed Rifle is the
best negotiator than any other silly diplomat any day of the
week.
YeloStalyn| 11.29.10 @ 5:46PM
While true, the diplomatic strains this would cause us even
among our allies would be great. Not sure if we have enough
political capital to pull this off, much less political will. What
once was a great American heritage, self reliance against an
oppressor, has led us to try and keep other peoples from having to
fight their own wars. We fought our own king. How many Mexicans
fight their own drug cartels and corrupt government? How many N.
Koreans fight against their corrupt government? Bay of Pigs and the
Iraqi Kurds stand as a great big neon sign in history saying, "We
will let you down!" when people try to be self-reliant. And it is
this self-reliance that is the best deterrent to bullies... the
"fully armed rifle."
Steve in SoCal| 11.29.10 @ 3:35PM
This incident is really about 2 things. First, it is a yell for
help from NK. The population is on it's consistent principle of
Darwinism thru starvation. It serves the NK media (redundant) a
chance to publish how the dear leader is still wary of his fellow
NK as he grows older. Instills a sense of nationalism within the
state at the express need to take the population's hunger pains off
their minds. Being in the northern hemisphere, NK has not heating
oil, it has no food due to it's policies and a horrible summer
drought in the region.
Second, it serves as two point offensive within the NK military.
The orders are given and the new young son dear leader sees who he
can count on in combination of a "warning" to outside countries
that you know what? "this guy just might be crazy enough to start
another war."
From the NK perspective, they provoke a strong response that
included military. So what if several hundred thousand people die.
They are going to die anyways from starvation. They pile up the
bodies somewhere (even though great care was taken to avoid
civilian casualties and only infrastructure was destroyed), they go
the Palistinean route in front of the world and create some UN
condemnations. The general populace of NK becomes even more
nationalist.
What to do? Like the article states, put them on the terrorism
list, ban all trade, have SK/Japan not trade with them. Tell the
Chinese, hey, they're your problem now. Use some of that trade
surplus to turn on the lights and feed the NK.
You're not going to go into NK militarily and succeed in getting
the population to help you. Even people who had escaped and began
to become westernized wept when the older leader died. Even knowing
what a miserable bastard he was. The revelation of the new atomic
stuff was part of the succession for the youngest Kim, in a way to
show the military that even though they had "bargained" away
previous atomic efforts for food, he had helped "defend" the nation
thru this action.
The bottom line is until we tell China to piss off and take care
of this problem called NK, nothing will get done. Can you imagine
the prospect of hundreds of thousands of NK streaming the border
into China? The Chinese already have a couple of thousand years
phobia of outsiders running into their country. This is really the
only carrot the US/SK/Jap has to play.
PBSD| 11.29.10 @ 3:49PM
The DPRK never agreed to the DMZ line established by South Korea
and regards South Korea's war games as a violation of their
territory. China would like to have 6 pack peace conference;
however, with the Americans now in the Yellow Sea, the DPRK has
withdrawn from the peace conference in China.
MacDaddy| 11.29.10 @ 3:50PM
I forgot to add that Japan is fading economically, so that even
it the US told them to start an army, they wouldn't because they
can't support it financially....so, in this particular eco-politic
& military chess match, the US is outmatched.
Look for the western pacific to become a Chinese lake by, oh,
2022 or so....
Negro X| 11.29.10 @ 4:52PM
Mcmoron, Japan already has a standing army you ididot.
I never understood north korea, even with their brother they did
not get along, what a ......
Perusha The Offender| 11.29.10 @ 6:18PM
Soon enough a human-caused crisis will break out, and affect
America so much that the sleeping sheep in this country will have
to awaken from their fat slumber.
Maybe North Korea will be the trigger.
As I picture the earth, there are so many smoldering "hot spots"
that regularly compete for our media attention, that insousciance
about how it will all work out sure seems to me to be
misplaced---CONCRETELY!
The longer I stay alive, the more human events seem to portray
reincarnation in action!
That is, "there's NOTHING new under the sun", in truth, since
every generation of the human race spits up forgetfull "types", who
invariably make the same old same old mistakes, again.
Wasn't it the Greeks who determined that there were only X
number of plots for a play?
I used to spent time earning $$$ as a sub. One of the most
rewarding and edifying experiences was to show the same movie to
different classes.
In one driver's ed class, the flick had a joke in it, so I could
watch the CLASS when it came up, and see their knee-jerk
reaction---and, like well trained puppies, most of them did indeed
laugh.
However, the best of all time, for me, involved a PC movie about
South Africa and aparteid.
The hero, a black African male, was, at one point , as a
prisoner, made to eat some human excrement!
It was so realistic, even for me, that it tended to make me
sick. But, seeing the high schoolers physically revolt at this
scene was hot stuff!
Sometimes, it seems to me that much the same kind of trip is
appearing in our human "movie", since there sure is a lot of CRAP
everywhere.
So many types of DUNG, in competition for our attention!
Also, there are NO ACCIDENTS, absolutely.
Choices are the name of the game, whether one is conscious of
making them or not.
Therefore, utter responsibility, taken to infinity and to all
time, demands that we each realize that this human excrement "play"
we smell and see too much of, is totally OUR doing.
A Buddha was wandering around England with a friend, and asked a
ntive how to get to London. The fellow said, "You can't get there
from here".
Just so.
How can you "get to" somewhere, besides where you are at?
Bohdhisattva and a devotee came upon a leper. The Enlightened
One pointed at the "poor man", and said, "He loves it!"
Huang Po and a devotee were outside. Some birds were flying
by.
Huang po asked, "Where are they going?"
The devotee said, "They've already flown away".
Humang po grabbed his nose, and asked, "How could they ever fly
away?"
Richard| 11.29.10 @ 10:00PM
Just because U.S. governemnt wants larger influence and
interests in Asia, it sends troops, money, unstable and disasters
to Asia. F**k the hell U.S. government, all it cares about is just
its interests in Asia (meanwhile, it also protends to be a nice
peace-keeping angel sent by God!) What a hypocritical
government.
Hans| 11.29.10 @ 10:08PM
I totally agree. However, it is about huge amout of money,
strategic influence, and the constraint of China; do you really
think American Government will care how many people die in (South
or North) Korea. It is about egoism, double-standard, and
politics!
Jack| 12.5.10 @ 3:10PM
We should do: nothing.
Why?
The North Korean government promised its citizens an improved
standard of living by 2010. It has never done this before, and it
has failed miserably. North Korea now desperately needs an excuse
to explain this latest failure.
If we do nothing, North Korea will not have its excuse, its
citizens will lose all faith and hope, and the entire country will
implode.
The West took Eastern Europe without firing a shot; The West can
do the same with North Korea, too.
The Yellow Sea is China's Caribbean: it claims a 200-mile
exclusive economic zone that almost reaches Yeonpyeong Island, very
near the area in which the naval exercises are taking place. China
is North Korea's biggest ally and trading partner
East Texas Rancher| 11.29.10 @ 7:03AM
And what if all China wants is to get us entangled in a threat that would cause them to call for war on the U.S.?
Tom| 11.29.10 @ 7:46AM
What purpose would war with the US serve China?
Old Soldier| 11.29.10 @ 8:12AM
Really. China would lose their most lucrative market. And, our first attack would be financial - by refusing to ever repay all the U.S. debt they hold.
Troy| 11.29.10 @ 9:53AM
Just like Germany lost it's biggest trading partner by going to war with France over 70 years ago?
Tom| 11.29.10 @ 10:20AM
France did not have the ability to drop hydrogen bombs on Germany.
Old Soldier| 11.29.10 @ 1:22PM
And the Germans didn't have to cross an ocean against the world's largest Navy to get to France.
SpiralArchitect| 11.29.10 @ 2:34PM
"Just like Germany lost it's biggest trading partner by going to war with France over 70 years ago?"
Germany's goal was geared toward expansion.
Not the best parabel for the China / US war scenario.
Unlikely China aspires toward the conquest of America & her territory.
Forget not, the Korean War is only in 'truce' status...
Thomas| 11.29.10 @ 9:42AM
China, like most nations, is not a business entity. Commerce is merely another battleground to extend the dominance of the State beyond its current borders. It is not interested in making money or selling widgets, it is interested in expanding its dominance, particularly in East Asia. The only real impediment to that expansion is the United States.
Nations are not GM, or IBM, or any other commercial entity. They exist to dominate and control, not to make money. Money is simply a means to an end.
George| 11.29.10 @ 4:55PM
You are correct about China's desire to expand its sphere of influence, but Chinese officials are subject to the desires of other human beings, to live in big houses, drive nice cars and have other material possessions. Ambitions that include perpetual aggression do not fit well into schemes.
Thomas| 11.29.10 @ 10:42PM
Most states do not plan "perpetual" aggression, simply enough aggression to achieve the desires of the leadership.
inge| 11.30.10 @ 12:00AM
It would be simply a powerplay by China; they own us, remember? Besides, the recent missile in California was sent by China; they sent a message to the 'smart power team' in DC, but was ignored. Not a peep, or explanation by our betters, it's definately amateur hour.
PBSD| 11.29.10 @ 3:53PM
China desiring war on the US when we owe them trillions of dollars is akin to blowing up your savings account! There is no sense to that stragety. Better be careful, they might demand all that we owe from the Iraq and Afghanistan wars in which we might have to sell land...ie a state! How about Texas?
Quartermaster| 11.29.10 @ 6:26PM
I'd go for Taxachussetts and San Francisco.
Christopher Holland| 11.30.10 @ 12:45AM
Why would anybody want California? It would be like volunteering to have herpes. The Chinese aren't that stupid.
Ken (Old Texican)| 11.29.10 @ 7:27AM
Jed,
You put your finger on the problem.
There is no WILL in the whitehouse.
My new E-novel www.texassaidno.com addresses the dangers we face from an AWOL CinC.
Write me at sales@texassaidno.com and I will send you a review copy.
Louis Jenkins| 11.29.10 @ 8:14AM
We need not expect anything concrete from the White House. More conferences, meetings, PSIs, whatever. Until South Korea is willing to stand up for itself the free-world certainly won't. Another war with China? It will not be limited this time.
Christopher Holland| 11.30.10 @ 12:50AM
There is no reason for a war. The position of China is quite weak- they have to import a lot of oil and export across the Pacific to a debtor country that has a large navy and and that owes them a lot of money. What happens if America says 'see you later'? The Chinese are not in a good position to throw their weight around because there is a large boot that can rest on their neck. It belongs to America.
GavInTucson| 11.30.10 @ 2:28AM
I wouldn't exactly call the Chinese position weak. Our position is certainly weak, economically. China is now our banker, very much like the United States became Europe's banker, starting with WWI (and we've seen Europe's empires fall during the 20th century).
Make no mistake, China's got us by the short and curlies, economically. The only "boot" we really have is nuclear weapons, and we most certainly won't use those.
Even if we defaulted with China it wouldn't hurt them that much. Europe did much the same in the 20th century with us, and we arose as a superpower because of it (while they fell as an economic power).
We've spent the last 20+ years taxing and regulating business out of our own country and into theirs (with NAFTA claiming first place). We're reaping what we've sown.
Prophet| 11.29.10 @ 8:27AM
What does North Korea want?? South Korea.
Invasion and war are inevitable.
MacDaddy| 11.29.10 @ 8:46AM
What does North Korea want? What China TELLS them to want. Anyone who dismisses the presence of the hand of the Chinese puppet-master up Kim's back is dwelling in the land of denial....China sees a weakened US, both economically and politically. For centuries, they have patiently sought hegemony in Eastern Asia...but four blocks stood in their way. Those blocks were Hong Kong and the British protectorate of same, and Taiwan, Japan and South Korea...all supported by the United States. Hong Kong fell to them 10 years ago. Now they see the opportunity to claim the other three. These activities are nothing less than the Chinese, through their North Korean dupes, probing the seriousness of the U.S. commitment to South Korea. They seek destabilization and weakening of the resolve in both SoKo and the US....and they have achieved it. The Obama administration is collectively peeing in their pants. Next will come increasingly hostile rhetoric directed at Taiwan. Never forget Sun Tsu. The Chinese seek to win the battle without firing a shot. They seek to win by turning allies against each other. They seek to win by outwaiting and outwitting their adversaries. But always, they seek to win....
Ned| 11.29.10 @ 12:28PM
And they are VERY, VERY patient. "Long term" to the US is 8 - 1o years... "long term" to the Chinese is 80 - 100...
GavInTucson| 11.30.10 @ 2:33AM
I fear you're correct. I also fear that the invasion will come from the North, and not the other way around.
A sixty-year score has been largely unsettled, and the communists are busily playing tic-tac-toe on the chalk board.
Deborah D| 11.29.10 @ 8:32AM
Weakness provokes aggression. A weak USA provokes aggression worldwide. A weak South Korea provokes aggression on their doorstep. What's so difficult about what most kids learned in kindergarten -- you have to stand up to bullies or you're going to get bloodied. Start building your nuclear arsenals, South Korea and Japan, you can't count on the US any longer.
WTF| 11.29.10 @ 8:41AM
According to Go Yeong -jae, the South Korean Coast Guard captain who rescued 56 of the Cheonon crew, he "received an order that a naval patrol vessel had run aground in the waters to the southwest of Baenguyyeong Island, and that we were to move there quickly to rescue them."
{The Cheonan was a frigate, not a destroyer.}
There is some doubt that a submarine could even operate in the shallow water there.
davelnaf| 11.29.10 @ 9:16AM
The Choenan was raised from a depth of about 147 feet (45 meters).
davelnaf| 11.29.10 @ 9:02AM
Seoul cannot allow North Korea shell the capital. If another provocation comes it will likely invade the DMZ to capture and push back NK’s forces. The USS Washington group is there to support this move.
NK will lose the war and lose it rather quickly. Will this bring China in? They have an awful lot to lose; beginning with seeing their economy tank in about a month.
And there is the suspicion that China has been using NK as its Pit Bull to help keep the neighbors in line and win a few important concessions here and there. But if war broke out NK would soon be making frantic calls for China to come to its aid. Something in these messages might suggest linkage between them to aid and abet NKs activities in the last few decades. Does China really want this dirt to come to light, especially in the aftermath of a war that could cost possibly tens of thousands of lives?
dac| 11.29.10 @ 10:59AM
Do you seriously think that when (not if) the Norks threaten Seoul with a nuclear missile attack, our very own dear Il Duce Negro will order the GW carrier group to do anything other than stand down and wait for orders from Beijing? I'd love to sample whatever it is you're drinking.
Unlike the S. Koreans and this American administration, the Norks the Chinese are willing to kill millions of people who mean nothing to them, but whose deaths would advance their long term goals. China would become the unquestioned ruler of its own "Greater East-Asia Co-Prosperity Sphere," and Japan and S Korea would become vassal states to it. Over the long term, of course. Why not test the only other power in the Pacific that might be interested in a different outcome? Why not now, when that power is least likely to be used. Note that the GW carrier group is staying well outside the claimed 200 mile EEZ...an obvious sign that the US will do nothing.
The only bonus for America is that when the Norks pop off, it will expose in bloody terms the complete failure of Il Duce's and Hilary's State Dept foreign policy. Neither of them will look too clever with half of Seoul in smoking, radioactive ruins.
George | 11.29.10 @ 5:01PM
I doubt that the RoK would cross the DMZ, but I suspect that an artillery exchange would be possible. The DMZ is a mess of mines and traps that would make such a venture very costly. If anyone is prepared to cross the DMZ it would be the DPRK.
Paul| 11.29.10 @ 10:59AM
Mr. Babbin, Lee Myung Bak is South Korea's president, not prime minister. Please do your homework.
Al Abad| 11.29.10 @ 12:13PM
North Korea is just playing their extortion game once again. Just as they did in the 90's under Clinton (when he bought them off by giving the reactors- real smart) they look to a weak White House to pay some blackmail to their advantage. Obviously this is once again the course this President will follow. Although, the possibility that he is so inept as to cause dangerous miscalculations (ala August 1914) remains.
Yosemeti Sam| 11.29.10 @ 12:53PM
Don't you just - love it:
SOS Clinton:
Erstwhile studious insider observer of Bubbas' then SOS Albrights' successful negotiation skills/waltzs/drinks with shortie Stalin II.
Now as emulative SOS practitioner in her own right in the high art of baloney diplomacy with shortie Stalin II.
LOL.
WTF| 11.29.10 @ 12:59PM
davelnaf, the depth that the Cheonan was raised from doesn't tell me anything definitive. We're not dealing with a swimming pool here.
James A.| 11.29.10 @ 1:26PM
Oh I am so tired of hearing from the nuclear weapons whiners. A tactical nuke is nothing more than a tactical nuke. If you want to end the nuclear extortion from North Korea is to transfer about 25 tactical nukes and their delivery systems into South Korea's Military. Nothing more than a 15 to 30 kiloton warheads. You then have mutual asure destruction. If the north uses nukes, the south responds and vise versa. then you encourage and help South Korea and Japan start their own nuclear weapons programs. You will be amazed how quickly China sees it our way on North Korea knowing they will have 2 other Nuclear armed states on their borders other than us. I am sorry say what you will. A fully armed Rifle is the best negotiator than any other silly diplomat any day of the week.
YeloStalyn| 11.29.10 @ 5:46PM
While true, the diplomatic strains this would cause us even among our allies would be great. Not sure if we have enough political capital to pull this off, much less political will. What once was a great American heritage, self reliance against an oppressor, has led us to try and keep other peoples from having to fight their own wars. We fought our own king. How many Mexicans fight their own drug cartels and corrupt government? How many N. Koreans fight against their corrupt government? Bay of Pigs and the Iraqi Kurds stand as a great big neon sign in history saying, "We will let you down!" when people try to be self-reliant. And it is this self-reliance that is the best deterrent to bullies... the "fully armed rifle."
Steve in SoCal| 11.29.10 @ 3:35PM
This incident is really about 2 things. First, it is a yell for help from NK. The population is on it's consistent principle of Darwinism thru starvation. It serves the NK media (redundant) a chance to publish how the dear leader is still wary of his fellow NK as he grows older. Instills a sense of nationalism within the state at the express need to take the population's hunger pains off their minds. Being in the northern hemisphere, NK has not heating oil, it has no food due to it's policies and a horrible summer drought in the region.
Second, it serves as two point offensive within the NK military. The orders are given and the new young son dear leader sees who he can count on in combination of a "warning" to outside countries that you know what? "this guy just might be crazy enough to start another war."
From the NK perspective, they provoke a strong response that included military. So what if several hundred thousand people die. They are going to die anyways from starvation. They pile up the bodies somewhere (even though great care was taken to avoid civilian casualties and only infrastructure was destroyed), they go the Palistinean route in front of the world and create some UN condemnations. The general populace of NK becomes even more nationalist.
What to do? Like the article states, put them on the terrorism list, ban all trade, have SK/Japan not trade with them. Tell the Chinese, hey, they're your problem now. Use some of that trade surplus to turn on the lights and feed the NK.
You're not going to go into NK militarily and succeed in getting the population to help you. Even people who had escaped and began to become westernized wept when the older leader died. Even knowing what a miserable bastard he was. The revelation of the new atomic stuff was part of the succession for the youngest Kim, in a way to show the military that even though they had "bargained" away previous atomic efforts for food, he had helped "defend" the nation thru this action.
The bottom line is until we tell China to piss off and take care of this problem called NK, nothing will get done. Can you imagine the prospect of hundreds of thousands of NK streaming the border into China? The Chinese already have a couple of thousand years phobia of outsiders running into their country. This is really the only carrot the US/SK/Jap has to play.
PBSD| 11.29.10 @ 3:49PM
The DPRK never agreed to the DMZ line established by South Korea and regards South Korea's war games as a violation of their territory. China would like to have 6 pack peace conference; however, with the Americans now in the Yellow Sea, the DPRK has withdrawn from the peace conference in China.
MacDaddy| 11.29.10 @ 3:50PM
I forgot to add that Japan is fading economically, so that even it the US told them to start an army, they wouldn't because they can't support it financially....so, in this particular eco-politic & military chess match, the US is outmatched.
Look for the western pacific to become a Chinese lake by, oh, 2022 or so....
Negro X| 11.29.10 @ 4:52PM
Mcmoron, Japan already has a standing army you ididot.
otak tengah| 11.29.10 @ 5:33PM
I never understood north korea, even with their brother they did not get along, what a ......
Perusha The Offender| 11.29.10 @ 6:18PM
Soon enough a human-caused crisis will break out, and affect America so much that the sleeping sheep in this country will have to awaken from their fat slumber.
Maybe North Korea will be the trigger.
As I picture the earth, there are so many smoldering "hot spots" that regularly compete for our media attention, that insousciance about how it will all work out sure seems to me to be misplaced---CONCRETELY!
The longer I stay alive, the more human events seem to portray reincarnation in action!
That is, "there's NOTHING new under the sun", in truth, since every generation of the human race spits up forgetfull "types", who invariably make the same old same old mistakes, again.
Wasn't it the Greeks who determined that there were only X number of plots for a play?
I used to spent time earning $$$ as a sub. One of the most rewarding and edifying experiences was to show the same movie to different classes.
In one driver's ed class, the flick had a joke in it, so I could watch the CLASS when it came up, and see their knee-jerk reaction---and, like well trained puppies, most of them did indeed laugh.
However, the best of all time, for me, involved a PC movie about South Africa and aparteid.
The hero, a black African male, was, at one point , as a prisoner, made to eat some human excrement!
It was so realistic, even for me, that it tended to make me sick. But, seeing the high schoolers physically revolt at this scene was hot stuff!
Sometimes, it seems to me that much the same kind of trip is appearing in our human "movie", since there sure is a lot of CRAP everywhere.
So many types of DUNG, in competition for our attention!
Also, there are NO ACCIDENTS, absolutely.
Choices are the name of the game, whether one is conscious of making them or not.
Therefore, utter responsibility, taken to infinity and to all time, demands that we each realize that this human excrement "play" we smell and see too much of, is totally OUR doing.
A Buddha was wandering around England with a friend, and asked a ntive how to get to London. The fellow said, "You can't get there from here".
Just so.
How can you "get to" somewhere, besides where you are at?
Bohdhisattva and a devotee came upon a leper. The Enlightened One pointed at the "poor man", and said, "He loves it!"
Huang Po and a devotee were outside. Some birds were flying by.
Huang po asked, "Where are they going?"
The devotee said, "They've already flown away".
Humang po grabbed his nose, and asked, "How could they ever fly away?"
Richard| 11.29.10 @ 10:00PM
Just because U.S. governemnt wants larger influence and interests in Asia, it sends troops, money, unstable and disasters to Asia. F**k the hell U.S. government, all it cares about is just its interests in Asia (meanwhile, it also protends to be a nice peace-keeping angel sent by God!) What a hypocritical government.
Hans| 11.29.10 @ 10:08PM
I totally agree. However, it is about huge amout of money, strategic influence, and the constraint of China; do you really think American Government will care how many people die in (South or North) Korea. It is about egoism, double-standard, and politics!
Jack| 12.5.10 @ 3:10PM
We should do: nothing.
Why?
The North Korean government promised its citizens an improved standard of living by 2010. It has never done this before, and it has failed miserably. North Korea now desperately needs an excuse to explain this latest failure.
If we do nothing, North Korea will not have its excuse, its citizens will lose all faith and hope, and the entire country will implode.
The West took Eastern Europe without firing a shot; The West can do the same with North Korea, too.
Christian Louboutin| 6.23.11 @ 5:34AM
The Yellow Sea is China's Caribbean: it claims a 200-mile exclusive economic zone that almost reaches Yeonpyeong Island, very near the area in which the naval exercises are taking place. China is North Korea's biggest ally and trading partner