The American Spectator

home
ADVERTISEMENT
Print Email
Text Size

The Obama Watch

Obama’s Godless Thanksgiving

By on 11.23.10 @ 6:09AM

Abraham Lincoln and the presidential expression of American values.

Did Abraham Lincoln just defeat Barack Obama?

Sure, there was that economy thing and ObamaCare and, well… the usual long list that began spicing up Republican poll numbers and the final results on election day.

But the approach of the Thanksgiving holiday reminds that maybe, just maybe, the real answer to the thorough repudiation of the Obama White House can be found in, of all things, two very different presidential proclamations for Thanksgiving.

The first, which was literally the first, was signed by Abraham Lincoln on October 3, 1863.

The second, by now a standard presidential duty of Lincoln’s successors, was issued by Barack Obama on November 23, 2009.

The difference? The very notable difference that has been in one form or another telegraphed to the American people by the Obama White House.

God and His connection to American values had suddenly gone missing from a Thanksgiving Proclamation by a President of the United States.

The story of Lincoln’s proclamation is fairly well known. Sarah Josepha Hale, a magazine editor of the day (famous, among other things, for writing the words to the nursery rhyme Mary Had a Little Lamb) noticed that in parts of America — New England most prominently — Thanksgiving had been celebrated with something approaching regularity since the arrival of the Pilgrims in 1620. In other sections — the South, for one — the holiday was barely known if at all.

Hale was nothing if not a believer in God and the American Union, as well as being a fierce opponent of slavery. She had made it her business to advocate and get action on those symbols that celebrated America and what today is known as American exceptionalism. She is said to have raised $30,000 for the construction of the monument celebrating the battle of Bunker Hill — and when funds were still needed went to work getting readers to donate to the cause. They did — and the monument celebrating the first major battle of the American Revolution still stands in Boston. She was one of the first to urge the preservation of George Washington’s legendary home at Mount Vernon, Virginia.

Since 1846 Hale had written editorials calling for a uniform national celebration of Thanksgiving, writing four presidents and dozens and dozens of congressmen to push her cause. Now, as America was embroiled in a ferocious Civil War where the concept of “Union” was very much in play, Hale tried again with a fifth president, Abraham Lincoln.

“Sir,” briskly began this formidable editor, going on to make the case that Thanksgiving “now needs National recognition and authoritive fixation, only, to become permanently, an American custom and institution.”

Lincoln responded with a Thanksgiving Proclamation on October 3, 1863. He was only a month from dedicating a cemetery to commemorate the Battle of Gettysburg, deep into both the conduct of the war while soon to deliver one of history’s most famous speeches in which he would say “that this nation, under God, shall have a new birth of freedom — and that government of the people, by the people, for the people, shall not perish from the earth.” Abraham Lincoln understood the importance of Hale’s message.

Secretary of State William Seward, the one-time Lincoln rival now a devoted friend and political soul mate, wrote the draft for the proclamation. Whether Lincoln tinkered with it is unknown. Read it, approve of it — and most importantly affix his signature to it — he did.

Lincoln’s Thanksgiving Proclamation, fixing the last Thursday of November as the official holiday, is to this day a sterling illustration of the relationship Lincoln and millions of Americans of his time — and ours — saw between God, religious faith, and the existence of America itself.

References to God or the Almighty and the relationship between the Creator and the idea that is America begin in the brief Lincoln Thanksgiving Proclamation’s second sentence and continue throughout.

Page: 1 2 3   Last ›

About the Author

Jeffrey Lord is a former Reagan White House political director and author. He writes from Pennsylvania at jlpa1@aol.com.

Letter to the Editor View all comments (204) |

Appleby| 11.23.10 @ 7:00AM

I had about decided that Zero could not be the antichrist because he is simply too stupid. And then I remembered an exchange between two guards in an episode of Doctor Who:

1: He isnt as stupid as he looks.
2: NOBODY could be as stupid as HE looks!

Think about it.

Happy Thanksgiving.

Jay Pitsby| 11.23.10 @ 8:54AM

A "dummichrist" maybe?

Kishego| 11.23.10 @ 2:49PM

I think that would be a "dhimmichrist" wouldn't it?

Thanks for Nothing!| 11.23.10 @ 9:46AM

"After a passing reference to a George Washington quote (the first President had observed "by acknowledging with grateful hearts the many and signal favors of Almighty God . . ."

Here you have it: Obama includes thanks to God by quoting Washington. And the rest of Obama's Thanksgiving message is beautifully worded. We should take his words to heart.

Stop trying to find fault when there is none. "Godless Thanksgiving"? No, this is not the case. Reread Obama's remarks and you will see that God is included directly and indirectly.

As usual, AmSpec is much ado about nothing.

Loshooligan| 11.23.10 @ 11:26AM

I wish you salmonella poisoning from your under cooked turkey, and a tryptophan induced car accident.

Happy Thanks Giving Jack Ass

DLS| 11.23.10 @ 11:59PM

Such utter hatred disguised as bad humor!!!

Loshooligan| 11.24.10 @ 10:26AM

You forgot the word seething before hatred. Because thats the only kind I have towards leftists like you and your America destroying ideology.

GKPAL| 11.28.10 @ 10:36PM

You're a moron and a hateful animal, because a humanbeing you're not.

Darragh| 11.23.10 @ 11:45AM

It's clear Obama does not believe in God , from Whom all good things come. It was clear last Christmas which he doesn't appear to celebrate (no presents) and from Easter, his reframed "ecological holiday." And people who believe in God and this great country have started to fight back, thank God!

Patrick| 11.23.10 @ 1:06PM

Barack Obama is clearly NOT an atheist. While I respect Mr. Lord's critique, he managed to miss quite a few references. This can be expected since most people don't acknowledge God in the first person singular.

Steve| 11.23.10 @ 9:06PM

lol! Guess I'm tired; that one took me a minute.

Charles Martel| 11.23.10 @ 7:25PM

Is Obama a "secret Muslim"? He is at the very least a Muslim apologist. God knows he's good at apologizing to them on our behalf, and making excuses for them to us.

But if you harbor doubts, ask yourself this: if a great world war erupted between all of Christendom and all of the God-cursed mohammedans, on whose side would you expect to find Barack Hussein Obama, Jr.?

The prosecution rests.

+++

Sabatini| 11.23.10 @ 8:53PM

Obama is a Muslim. He is an apologist for Islam; thinks the chief duty of the POTUS is to make sure no ill is spoken of Islam; never defends Christianity; never exhibits any concern for the Christians slaughtered in Islamic countries; can't quote the Bible; hates to reference the Judaeo-Christian God; never says anything complimentary about Christianity; never says says the name of all names, Jesus Christ, if he can help it; has a deep-seated and irrational hatred of Israel. All of these force me to conclude that Obama is Muslim.

Thomas Loftis| 11.23.10 @ 9:32PM

Thank You! You've said it and we will be punished for turning our back on God and on Israel.

Yosemeti Sam| 11.23.10 @ 1:39PM

Yo, know-it-all pilgrim - doth thou knoweth
whereof that Mao Zoo Dung White House Christmas
tree ornament is at?

Stuffed in a White House turkey perhaps?

trish| 11.23.10 @ 8:45PM

Like dropping 'endowed by our Creator' from the Declaration of Independence multiple times. 39% approval rating today is well deserved indeed.

Synthetic| 11.24.10 @ 2:10PM

It also has more references to God than Richard Nixon's first one, which only mentioned "the source of all good." And both of Gerald Ford's only mention God once.

This article is an embarrassment. Who does the fact checking?

carlos| 11.28.10 @ 2:39PM

right ,thanks for nothing you are a socialist just like obmama,come 2012 and deliver another hit to his mouth

Thankful to God!| 11.23.10 @ 10:14AM

I am so thankful that I will not be having Thanksgiving dinner with any of you.

I'm afraid your caustic conversation might give me chronic indigestion. Vitriolic and bitter. I think these adjectives adquately describe you and your crazy political arguments.

Yosemeti Sam| 11.23.10 @ 1:41PM

Hows about you, pilgrim - doth thou knoweth
whereof that Mao Zoo Dung White House Christmas
tree ornament is at?

Stuffed in a White House turkey perhaps?

SPaquet| 11.23.10 @ 4:18PM

You sound like a overpaid school teacher, find another site if you have digestion issues.

Paul| 11.23.10 @ 11:47AM

Folks,
Here is an idea. How about a delegation of Republicans (those with the true heart and courage to do so) meet on the steps of the Capitol Building, pray and offer Lincoln's proclamation again? Rush, Glenn, Tea Party, someone promote this? Just because the anti-God President won't do it, doesn't mean true Americans can't!!

RCV| 11.23.10 @ 12:44PM

Instead, how about about you guys all getting a dose of Chistian charity and love instead of spewing hate all day long? That would be refreshing.

Anita| 11.23.10 @ 12:55PM

Gosh! Obama is the Thanksgiving turkey.

Let's cook him.

SPaquet| 11.23.10 @ 4:27PM

That'd be fine if liberal Christian hating fascist would leave us be. A national park in the south west was deemed unexceptable because a cross was there. Where is there charity? And I'm sure there are 'gals' who post here too. Maybe public schooled?

RCV| 11.23.10 @ 5:12PM

The person you call a "liberal Christian hating fascist" -- which is nonsense, of course -- is the duly elected President of our country. Not sure what he has to do with a "national park in the south west [which] was deemed unexceptable {SIC} because a cross was there". What in the world are you referring to? All I know is that you are blinded by hatred.

And for your information, I was educated at the University of California and at Stanford University.

chuck| 11.23.10 @ 5:35PM

And for your information, I was educated at the University of California and at Stanford University.

That sure explains a lot!

RCV| 11.23.10 @ 5:39PM

Spoken like an uneducated idiot, Chuck.

jim S| 11.23.10 @ 7:09PM

Roger that!!!!

GKPAL| 11.28.10 @ 10:47PM

RCV- The last paragraph of your post attests to your being an IDIOT.

NEGRO X| 11.23.10 @ 5:15PM

RCV, A day off from your whining and sniveling, not to mention your islamic groveling would be nice too.

RCV| 11.24.10 @ 2:38PM

Well why don't you stay off the computer for a day and we'd all enjoy the respite? And why don't you grow up and stop using that ridiculous moniker?

East Texas Rancher| 11.23.10 @ 7:04AM

I wouldn't be surprised if Obama thanks Allah for this year's Thanksgiving. This man repudiates anything and everything American. After all, he is here to rule, until he transfers his powers to the Chinese or other multi-national groups.
So, I won't hold my breath until I hear the proclamation. He is the essence of a narcissist and detests us commoners.
East Texas Rancher

Fly-over Country Rancher| 11.23.10 @ 7:27AM

This is what happens to a brain on islam. He is nothing but a traitor to this Republic and our Christian God. Happy T/G there East Texas Rancher, from the family of a Middle of the Country flyover Rancher. Rest well, pray hard and run with it as though you stole it.

Thorvald| 11.23.10 @ 9:06AM

Yep, I think the AmSpec boys got hold of The O's English translation of the original from the Arabic. As usual, it's one thing in English, and a whole 'nother deal in Arabic.
Sidewinder!

loulou| 11.23.10 @ 9:12AM

Odingo is a Muslim and we're the dhimmis--of course he holds us in contempt.

Patrick| 11.23.10 @ 1:08PM

Both Mohammad and his Allah are far too insignificant for someone of Obama's stature. In the end, only Obama is worthy of Obama's worship.

MoeBlotz| 11.23.10 @ 7:05AM

In this enlightened age of electronic wizardry,we sacrifice the burned carcass of fowl to our almighty god of the uprights. Our sacrament is now a fermented concoction of barley malt,hops,yeast and water that we share with the oblate spheroid worshippers as our LCD and plasma screens glow.

Stephanie| 11.23.10 @ 7:30AM

Speak for yourself Moe.

Son Of Sam| 11.23.10 @ 8:06AM

Yes, it was so much better in the days when we had gladiators stick swords into Christians in the arena, or fed them to lions, or crucified entire nations when they rose up to fight for their freedom from the oppression of pagan tyranny. Thats SOOOOOOO much better than friends and family gathering to thank the GOD who made us, have a meal together, then watch a game where everyone lives.

digitusmedius| 11.23.10 @ 1:52PM

"the GOD who made us, have a meal together, then watch a game where everyone lives."

Coming so often from the people it does, that sentiment strikes me as somewhat insulting to their god. No wonders they tend to call it an angry god.

Albert| 11.23.10 @ 11:49AM

Yo Moe! You left out rice. Check the labels of some football sponsor beers and you will see it. By the way, the turkey is not a sacrifice. It is dinner (Check your Bible for further clarification).

MoeBlotz| 11.24.10 @ 1:08PM

Real beer is made with barley malt,no crap adjuncts like rice. Original Thanksgiving had no turkey,goose was quite popular.Drink your Bud-Miller piss water whilst you enjoy your bread and circuses.

Groad| 11.24.10 @ 6:06PM

I guess some people have no sense humor. You are right in that too many people these days see not a day to give thanks, but a day to pig out and watch football. I'd rather drink seltzer than a lot of the swill that gets marketed as beer. Real beer also has hops you can taste.

inge| 11.23.10 @ 7:19AM

To omit "God" in everything America is the problem in a nutshell; progressives have literally destroyed this nation by systematically remove 'The Almighty God', and his blessing with their actions over the years, and now completed by obama.
This alone, the values brought out by spirituality is what needs to be restored.

Son Of Sam| 11.23.10 @ 7:53AM

What is America without GOD, but a warmer, English speaking version of the old Soviet Union?

btw, for those who are wondering, Son Of sam refers to my admiration for that original American revolutionary, Sam Adams. Not the guy who makes the beer, although that also goes well with football and turkey sandwiches

Anthony| 11.23.10 @ 9:09AM

You should be more careful in picking a moniker Sam. "Son of Sam", aka David Berkowitz, was also the mass murderer, during the late '70s in Queens NY, who was gunning down woman because his dog told him to do so.
As to this article and the picture that accompanyied it, I was confused for a moment as to who was the actual turkey in the photo.

loulou| 11.23.10 @ 9:15AM

Maybe Son of Sam really is Son of Sam and is typing away in his prison cell.

Son of Sam--were you a former postal worker?

Son Of Sam| 11.23.10 @ 9:27AM

no, I'm a former caregiver turned teacher turned programmer turned college professor. Who says America's not the land of opportunity?

Son Of Sam| 11.23.10 @ 9:26AM

It would be the one with the feathers... the other one has so little meat on him, even cannibals would pass him up.

btw, thank you so much for the history lesson, but I already knew that. (Besides teaching computer programming, I also once upon a time taught American and European history. What can I say, I'm multi-talented.) You should see the hysteria it causes other places I post. Plus, it passes the first rule of PR: all publicity is good publicity

stand strong until freedom dawns,
SOS

Gladius| 11.23.10 @ 8:04PM

Thank you for explaining Sam, now I know.

beebop| 11.23.10 @ 7:24AM

Reading Lincoln's full proclamation, I was taken by his seeming gratitude that even though the nation was engaged in a war testing the nation:

'He has largely augmented our free population by emancipation and by immigration, while he has opened to us new sources of wealth, and has crowned the labor of our workingmen in every department of industry with abundant rewards. Moreover, he has been pleased to animate and inspire our minds and hearts with fortitude, courage, and resolution sufficient for the great trial of civil war into which we have been brought by our adherence as a nation to the cause of freedom and humanity, and to afford to us reasonable hopes of an ultimate and happy deliverance from all our dangers and afflictions. '

No one can deny that we are at a terrible crossroads in the history of our nation. We permitted the government to loan money to people who were neither capable nor prepared for home ownership and this led to the undoing of our economy. We permit the government to provide handouts to individuals who believe that those handouts are somehow part and parcel of the US Constitution (a flawed document that needs to be made more contemporary by stretching its meanings, apparently). We permit the government to negotiate contracts with foreign powers (called "treaties) whose terms are unfavorable to the very people whose safety and well being they are charged to protect. We permit the government to assure us that by substituting SAFETY for FREEDOM, we will somehow hold on to both.

These may be troubling times. But thank GOD this administration came to power during troubling times and then doubling down. Never again, Americans. Let's take a solemn and sacred pledge to never, ever again elect any individual regardless of race, sex, color or creed to the highest office our great nation has while knowing so little about the background, beliefs and intended actions of that individual. Never again. Amen and thank God.

Son Of Sam| 11.23.10 @ 8:01AM

Lincoln's devotion to GOD and the idea that we are judged by what we do is chiseled on the inside of the Lincoln Memorial, and I quote:

"Yet, if God wills that it continue until all the wealth piled by the bondsman's two hundred and fifty years of unrequited toil shall be sunk, and until every drop of blood drawn with the lash shall be paid by another drawn with the sword, as was said three thousand years ago, so still it must be said "the judgments of the Lord are true and righteous altogether."

so you see, his Thanksgiving Proclamation was hardly a fluke. Perhaps our current commander in chief could read those words sometime, and ponder them.

By the way, does anyone wonder if some of the "smart set" of Lincoln's time regarded him as a backwoods rube from what we now call "flyover country"? Just a thought. Perhaps some of the so-called "proper" Republicans on this board might wish to recall this when they condemn certain people or groups currently in the GOP tent

Louis Jenkins| 11.23.10 @ 8:11AM

Make a solemn and sacred pledge? Brother beebop, I was there in 2008. Knowing about his background and beliefs was easy. All one had to do was read, monitor the electronic news, and listen to some talk show radio. I knew we were making a mistake and voted accordingly. Most of you here on this blog did the same. Too bad the rest of America didn't. We're half way through this administration and we'd darned better make sure it is his last. Anything less will be criminal on our part. Those who exchange Freedom for Safety will will end up with tyranny.

Dan Hirsch| 11.23.10 @ 8:32AM

Hail, beebop!

It seems to me that we as a nation periodically forget how hard it was to get to this easy place. Millions of our countrymen and forefathers and mothers have struggled and suffered to build this great country. Then we as an electorate don't worry so much and elect a "personality" on rather whimsical grounds. In 1976 we elected Jimmy Carter, who showed his lack of perspective and balance in his panicky and awkward responses to relatively straightforward historical events: "You are going to invade the sovereign Afghanistan? Well then we're not coming to kick your butts at the Olympics in Moscow! Take that!" was my favorite. Wearing a sweater to show that he was a man of the people on his inauguration day. Turning the White House thermostat down in winter time to 'fight' the oil crisis causing the air conditioning to turn on in January. There were four years of such idiocy.

At the time there was much talk that the Presidency was 'too big for one man' (Sorry, girls, that was the language of the day.) that maybe in 1980 Ronald Reagan and Jerry Ford should run as "co-Presidents."

Well, we recovered nicely from the nuculah engineer's ministrations and were eventually rewarded with Mr. Reagan and his pro-growth policies, minus President Ford's cute and useless WIN buttons (Whip Inflation Now!)

Presumably our current President won't do enough damage to sink our ship of state - but we will have a lot of overhauling to do when we get clear of him.

But we will learn - just make sure you take the time to tell others about what we are seeing, clearly, calmly, and coolly. Because when everyone is losing their head, leadership speaks our basic principles (ref US Constitution) clearly, calmly, and coolly.

Don't tread on me! Nolite me conculcare!

digitusmedius| 11.23.10 @ 2:42PM

The worst part of these times is that there are people who really want to blame our condition on the victims of bankster greed.

MARGIE| 11.24.10 @ 5:06PM

It is heart warming to see how far our nation has come. In the old days, when I was young, churches prayed for our leaders to be wise, not critique everything that is supposedly said or not said, just the way we like. You all state with such positivity that President Obama did not refer to God in his Thanksgiving Day Proclamation, I looked it up and just read it... this is one paragraph
"In confronting the challenges of our day, we must draw strength from the resolve of previous generations who faced their own struggles and take comfort in knowing a brighter day has always dawned on our great land. As we stand at the close of one year and look to the promise of the next, we lift up our hearts in gratitude to God for our many blessings, for one another, and for our Nation. This Thanksgiving Day, we remember that the freedoms and security we enjoy as Americans are protected by the brave men and women of the United States Armed Forces. These patriots are willing to lay down their lives in our defense, and they and their families deserve our profound gratitude for their service and sacrifice."
Sorry. I was going to cut out the reference to God, but then I want you all to have a happy holiday.

Ret. Marine| 11.23.10 @ 7:29AM

Hear-hear.

Geoff Elliott | 11.23.10 @ 7:57AM

Lincoln almost certainly did not modify the 1863 Thanksgiving Proclamation which Seward wrote.

To the editors: Thank you for linking to The Abraham Lincoln Blog when you mention the proclamation. I'm the author and publisher of the blog at http://abrahamlincolnblog.blogspot.com

D. Singh| 11.23.10 @ 8:40AM

Sir

Mr Lord makes a profound observation:

‘He managed not once but twice to misquote the Declaration of Independence itself, saying on one of these occasions, the Hispanic Caucus Institute's Annual Awards Gala on Sept. 15: "We hold these truths to be self-evident that all men are created equal, endowed with certain inalienable rights: life and liberty and the pursuit of happiness. That's what makes us unique." The phrase "endowed by their Creator" simply vanished in the Obama telling. Seven days later, he did it again at a fundraiser, this time mentioning "inalienable rights" that "everybody is endowed with." Exactly who endowed "everybody" the President did not or would not say.’

As Mr Lord observes the phrase "endowed by their Creator" simply vanishes.

I am sure that Mr Lord knows that there are only two grounds and each with their own implications that one can construct ‘inalienable rights’:

1. They are either given by our Creator; or
2. They are in the gift of the State.

If they are in the gift of the State then the State can give them on Monday morning and terminate them on Friday evening. And that is precisely what communist and fascist states do (for example, the European Union).

Mr President Obama owes the American people an apology. For not to issue an apology may suggest that he is threatening, or preparing the cultural and intellectual ground, to attack their freedom, security and liberty.

Ted R.| 11.23.10 @ 11:48AM

You have made the elementary mistake that Cons always make. You think we cannot have rights as CITIZENS of a free state - instead, you think we are ultimately SUBJECTS of a cosmic king who deigns to extend "rights" to us - rights that we enjoy only at His pleasure.

We can only have a legitimate and durable claim to rights, if they are not the bequest of ANY individual personality (no matter HOW powerful; power has nothing to do with the PRINCIPLES underlying our essential freedom and autonomy). If we have rights only at the whim of another, we are in reality ONLY slaves.

We are citizens, NOT subjects. Our rights are derived from LAW - not from any particular personality, but by the will of the community as it is expressed through representative institutions.
NO one, NO king, real or imaginary, is above this Law.

We are no more endowed with our rights by any "Creator," than we were endowed with them by the Great Pumpkin. We need understand the use of the term "Creator" in the Declaration as simply a metaphor.

Skippy| 11.23.10 @ 1:46PM

As I'm sure you agree, "freedom" and "liberty" are only metaphors for "permission from the Government".
Thank Obama for the blessings he permits.

Oh, and "choke on a bone" is just a metaphor for "Happy Thanksgiving", Ted.

The Big E| 11.23.10 @ 3:56PM

"You think we cannot have rights as CITIZENS of a free state"

Exactly what right as a "citizen" do you have that the State cannot take away if it chooses? The State (speaking figuratively, here) may sentence you to prison for what you think, to death for what you say, to blindness for what you see. They may imprison you, starve you, torture you, kill you, for no reason other then the convenience of the State and those who run, and indeed, history is replete (especially in the 20th century) with examples of States (usually run by Utopian statists) which have done exactly that.

Yet from Rome to Russia, those who have kept faith in God have remained free in spirit, free in mind, regardless of the horrors they have endured, the tortures inflicted upon them, the brutal deaths they have been forced to suffer.

NEGRO X| 11.23.10 @ 5:17PM

Ted, go tell it to your fellow obama woshippers, like you , they would sell their souls just to lick obama's anus.

RCV| 11.24.10 @ 2:39PM

Just can't quit your anal obsession, can you?

D. Singh| 11.24.10 @ 3:35AM

‘If we have rights only at the whim of another, we are in reality ONLY slaves.

‘Our rights are derived from LAW - not from any particular personality,...’

I take it then that the heroes who wrote the Constitution had no personality? Of course, if you accept that they did write the Constitution presumably you see yourself as a slave?

digitusmedius| 11.23.10 @ 2:48PM

Perhaps you should look up the word "paraphrase," Mr.(?) Singh. I think you owe a posthumous apology for giving their lives to wrest those freedoms from their oppressors. No one, not even a mythical creator, gives anyone rights. People either take and exercise their basic human rights or they don't and some superstitious imaginary being has nothing to do with it.

D. Singh| 11.24.10 @ 3:25AM

'People either take and exercise their basic human rights or they don't...'

Could you for the benefit of my intellect tell me hwat are these basic human rights you refer to and where you believe they come from?

I would be very grateful.

Useful Info Nation | 11.23.10 @ 8:47AM

Just you wait and see what turkeys he pardons in December 2012 and January 2013 while on his way out. I'm guessing all of Guantanamo's inmates. Does anyone truly believe he omitted "Creator" twice by mistake?

LarryK| 11.23.10 @ 9:00AM

I don't know about the rest of you, but this Thursday, I will cook a Turkey and prepare a meal for my wife, daughter and myself. Before the meal, we will say a short prayer thanking God for the blessings He has given us, health, safety, freedom, each other, and the food on the table. We will remember where those blessings come from and it isn't a government, a political party or a president. Those can only enhance or hinder the blessings we receive. Happy Thanksgiving to All!

Son Of Sam| 11.23.10 @ 9:29AM

Sounds yummy to me. I raise my glass to you and yours, and to all true patriots everywhere!

Chris| 11.23.10 @ 9:04AM

Happy Thanksgiving to you and your family Mr Lord, and may God Almighty be with you your family and all of America while we give thanks and pray that this misery ends soon with the restoration of this Country in full!

George S| 11.23.10 @ 9:10AM

Godless Thanksgivings and Jesus-free Christmases:

["But even in these tough times, there's still so much to celebrate this Christmas. A message of peace and brotherhood that continues to inspire more than 2,000 after Jesus' birth."]

The only mention of Jesus in the White House 2009 Christmas proclamation -- mentioned as a time line reference to a liberal shibboleth and not as Son of God or any respectful nod to Christianity.

Son Of Sam| 11.23.10 @ 9:31AM

Believe me George, even a non-Christian such as myself is offended by this. What the hell is wrong with these people: are they afraid their tongues will burst into flames if they mention GOD, Jesus, Christianity or faith?

Stephanie| 11.23.10 @ 10:38AM

No guys, he's afraid of the ACLU will come after his behind. Gotta keep God, Jesus, goodness and love out of it. You might offend the tree-worshipers, the atheists and most of all, the Muslims. The ones waiting in line in NYC for their government grant for the mosque a stones throw from ground zero.

Career Soldier| 11.23.10 @ 1:08PM

Stephanie,

Right after "the ACLU" you omitted the UAW, NEA, SIEU, and UN. I know you meant too, just an oversight.

digitusmedius| 11.23.10 @ 2:53PM

It's always entertaining to read "christians" lament the loss of "reason" for their "season, " while remaining totally silent on the crass commercialization of Christmas. In fact, more often than not, their objections have to do with why they can't commercialize the icons of the holiday more. If you want to find the almost complete absence of Jesus (not the word being flung around, but the actual meaning of Jesus' teachings) the best place to go is among the so-called "christians."

gazinya| 11.24.10 @ 10:14AM

You are right in saying that the absence of Jesus and His teachings is among the 'so-called christians'. They are so called because they are not in Christ in faith, soul or spirit. The fact that Christmas is so commercialized has absolutely nothing to do with the Thanksgiving of the birth of Jesus anymore than easter eggs has anything to do with the Resurrection of The Christ Jesus. Those money changers that occupy these days are just that, money changers.

Jesus said that He has gone to prepare a place for those who believe in and on Him. If you don't, then quit complaining when His followers say there is no place for you at the table.

Joe B| 11.23.10 @ 9:21AM

Kind of a slanted article. I just read the 2009 Proclamation and right at the beginning is this line...."by acknowledging with grateful hearts the many and signal favors of Almighty God".... when will the right wing get it right? That is our President that you are dragging through the mud. And you are telling lies to do it. I don't agree with all that the President does, or our last President, but I would not lie to make a point.

Mark N| 11.23.10 @ 9:28AM

Joe B, The article is not slanted. The article is correct. Mr. Lord said that the Bamster referenced GWB with that quote. It is difficult to take an ass beating like you got Nov. 2 and with the prospects of a further house cleaning in 2012 the Bamster is worse than a lame duck President. Those few supporters he has must put their tail between their legs and STFU.

Jeffrey Lord| 11.23.10 @ 10:07AM

Joe B...

The Washington quote is mentioned in the article. The point is that the President himself never references God....and in the long parade of other Presidents and their Thanksgiving Proclamations who made their own references to God it stands out like a sore thumb...

Tom| 11.23.10 @ 11:26AM

Mr. Lord,
I am no fan of Mr. Obama but he is not the first President to make scant mention of God in the yearly Thanksgiving Proclamation. Nixon in 69 only mention the Lord when referencing the year, as did Ford in 75, and Carter in 78. I probably missed a few but it is all rather meaningless.

RCV| 11.23.10 @ 12:48PM

Not to mention Jefferson, who declined to issue a Thanksgiving proclamation at all on the grounds that it was improper for the President to direct the nation to pray to God.

Career Soldier| 11.23.10 @ 1:16PM

Which Jefferson would that be? The one before there was an American Thanksgiving Holiday, or the American President after Lincoln proclamed the first American Thanksgiving Holiday?

Ooops, how stupid of me. There was no President named Jefferson after Thanksgiving became a holiday. Never mind! Oh, and Happy Thanksgiving! (thank you Mr. Lincoln)

RCV| 11.23.10 @ 1:36PM

Apparently you have a shallow grasp of American history, so let me fill you in. Well before it was declared a "holiday", American Presidents began issuing Thanksgiving proclamation. John Hancock and Henry Laurens did so as Presidents of the Continental Congress. After we became a nation, George Wahington and John Adams issued two proclamations of a national day of Thanksgiving.

Both Jefferson and John Quincy Adams declined to continue this tradition, believing (and saying so) that for the President to issue a proclamation declaring a national day of prayer would violate the First Amendment's proscription against establishment of religion. Madison revived the tradition, but after him, it died out until Lincoln.

It was another of the right's favorite targets, by the way, Franklin Roosevelt, who established our current end-of-November Thanksgiving holiday.

Read some history soldier before yourush in to "correct" others.

Career Soldier| 11.24.10 @ 8:39AM

I have a shallow grasp of history? And to validate that you choose to parrot the 1st amendment lie? Your reasoning is flawed, probably because your vision is clouded. And I didn't correct you, I corrected myself. Maybe your reading comprehension skills are flawed too.

Carefull there, your true anti-Christian agenda is showing and it has nothing to do with history.

digitusmedius| 11.23.10 @ 1:37PM

Gee, you'd hope a career soldier would have at least a little knowledge of our history. Jefferson stopped the practice of proclamations for specific religious holidays and holy days that were fairly rampant in the days of his two predecessors.

lsc| 11.23.10 @ 1:49PM

According to the article above, the thanksagiving tradition extends far before the time of Lincoln, With proclamations dating back to Washington. That would be the Washington before Lincoln, not after.

Bob Miller| 11.23.10 @ 9:22AM

He doesn't believe in America, either, much as the Rev. Wright doesn't.

Son Of Sam| 11.23.10 @ 9:32AM

I don't think America believes in them either, judging by the latest poll numbers

digitusmedius| 11.23.10 @ 1:35PM

As his approval is 10-20 points higher than any particular Republican and the Republican party in general, what does that say for the amount of unlove for them?

Son Of Sam| 11.23.10 @ 4:38PM

America doesn't believe in you either, digitaldumbass

digitusmedius| 11.23.10 @ 7:32PM

Wow, it's easy to whip you into puerile sputtering.

davelnaf| 11.23.10 @ 9:24AM

It’s odd that Obama has not revealed any behavioral by-products associated with his skirting of mainstream religion in favor of Islam. If he were favoring Islam for political gain only he would have to create something to help him get around the mental dissonance that is naturally created in this circumstance in a person who is not a Muslim.

Buckeyeman| 11.23.10 @ 9:53AM

Didn't he bow down to a Saudi King? (hint: I SAW the photos)

Son Of Sam| 11.23.10 @ 4:40PM

Never mind the bowing, our beloved TelePrompter in Chief has apologized to the entire continent of Europe...you know, the place that caused both world wars and created both auschwitz and the gulag. And vomited up Hitler, Stalin and Mussolini

Carloz | 11.23.10 @ 9:00PM

I guess he thought if he'd held hands with and kissed the Saudi Kind he'd be seen as imitating Dubya. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-fsA5w1LqJc

MikeD| 11.23.10 @ 9:50AM

I have a real dilemma. We all have an incredibly important commitment to the first amendment freedoms; and none of us want any restrictions on that cherished right. However, at the same time, our system of representative government (A representative republic, not 'PURE' democracy) requires two things to survive: A free and unfettered press (Media) and an educated electorate. We no longer have either, although the internet has gone a long way in a relatively short time to help correct the system of information propagation. Having said that, here's the problem:

Barry HUSSAIN obama was fradulently elected, mostly because of a biased media that scrupulously scrubbed anything negative or questionable about him from the eyes and ears of the voters. In earlier times and other places they'd have been 'frog marched' to public execution in the 'town square' for their premeditated attempt to murder America. This is, however, completely at odds with our freedom of the press. Therefore, our strongest hope has to be the growth of 'alternative' media that lets the people see everything they care to discover about candidates for public office. So, at the end of the day the system appears to be self correcting.

The other side of the issue, an educated electorate; the situation is not so hopeful, at least as long as the public employee's unions are spending millionsd on getting criminals like reid, pelosi, and obama (Caps intentionally deleted) elected so they can increase their access to the public trough. The answer is another executive order by the next (Republican) President on his/her inauguration day. Remember that the right to public employee's collective bargaining was NEVER legislated; it resulted for an EXECUTIVE ORDER signed by JFK his first day in office. That should help the problem.

You ask: "What does all this have to do with Thanksgiving and obama's message? Plenty! As a nation, we all have to learn to pay attention and ask the hard questions if we survive barry and his thuggish buddies in the New Democratic (Totalitarian Communist) Party. We have to do all we can to starve the left wing media by refusing to watch them or read their lies; that's the only way to drive them out of business. They're well on their way to doing it to themselves anyway.

Anybody reading the secular drivel spewing from the scribbling pens and drooling mouths of this administration need to be thankful that enough people have been awakened to stop barry and his thugs. (It sounds like a Rap group.) HAPPY THANKSGIVING! We have lots to be thankful for; including the last election results and the promise of 2012.

Tom| 11.23.10 @ 11:52AM

There was nothing fraudulent about Obama's election. He ran a better campaign, he fooled the people into believing he was a pragmatic centrist. Sure, there were parts of the media that did its best to hide his true views but this is hardly an unique occurrence in American history. He won because the American people were more comfortable visualizing him in the White House than they were McCain. I just hope the R's don't make the same mistake in '12 and nominate the candidate who has 'put his time in'.

malcolmia| 11.23.10 @ 12:16PM

"Remember that the right to public employee's collective bargaining was NEVER legislated; it resulted for an EXECUTIVE ORDER signed by JFK his first day in office. That should help the problem."

CORRECT! It seems most have forgotten this. An entire shadow judiciary has arisen out of this EO, replete with attorneys, judges, and enforcers that force compliance - usually on a stifled management.

gingadecorgi| 11.23.10 @ 9:54AM

0bama had has developed a loathing for historic protocols. Tomb of the Unknown. Christian Holy Days, Thanksgiving. Removal of the Name of God (or Creator) from our sacred documents such as the Declaration. Can't seem to find the time to pay homage to our nation's treasured history. I wonder what the next two years will be like. I wonder that if by the end of his first term we, too, will forget our honorable traditions. Our President should be recalling with great respect our historic traditions. This President hates the USA and its people.

RCV| 11.23.10 @ 12:51PM

This is pure unadulterated bullsh*t. President Obama is a devoted fan of American history. He replaces a bust of Winston Churchill with one of Abraham Lincoln, and all you guys can do is complain about that. He has often spoken eloquently of our forefathers and their accomplishments. The only hate I see is yours and that of your ilk.

digitusmedius| 11.23.10 @ 1:34PM

Maybe one day right wingers will actually learn about our history rather than just making it up to fit their ideology. Jefferson put a stop to giving presidential recognition to Christian holy days or holidays, a practice that the first two presidents engaged in regularly. Lincoln may have referred to a deity in the Thanksgiving Proclamation but it is in no way a sectarian holiday.

Son Of Sam| 11.23.10 @ 4:47PM

Its called ThanksGiving for a reason: because we are Giving Thanks to GOD. Maybe you should move out of your momma's basement and actually learn the real history of my country before you can dream of pretending to be one of the grownups

digitusmedius| 11.23.10 @ 7:37PM

you can give thanks to whatever mythical being you wish; I'm giving thanks to the fates for allowing me to live in a country where people like you can't control my life.

D. Singh| 11.24.10 @ 3:51AM

Presumably then you just want people like you controlling people like us?

beebop| 11.24.10 @ 6:29PM

You say mythical, I say wonderful.

Potatoes?

I think not.

beebop| 11.23.10 @ 2:25PM

Sorry sir, with all due respect, he replaced the bust of an ally and mensch, sending it back like discarded trash to the nation that bestowed it -- not on him but on US. Abraham Lincoln? I think he rather fancies that he has some mystical relationship with the only REAL president we have had from Illinois. The other one has been too busy being citizenoftheworld for the taste of most of us.

Daughter two must be slipping past the stern discerning gaze of her mother ....

Sheila| 11.23.10 @ 9:55AM

We have begun our Thanksgiving celebration for the last 15 years by reading Lincoln's proclamation (later augmented by a prayer written by Washington). A Christian furniture store, Weirs, paid for a large ad in the "left morning news" for years printing Lincoln's prayer in its entirety (I use a copy I cut out years ago). My sons have grown up reading this aloud; they know exactly why we celebrate Thanksgiving and to whom we are giving thanks (but then, we're subversives).

Anommynous| 11.23.10 @ 11:07AM

Perhaps Obama will just dispense with Thanksgiving altogether, and instead issue a proclamation for the Festival of Reason, with Nancy Pelosi presiding in full costume with her giant gavel as the Goddess of Reason.

Ken (Old Texican)| 11.23.10 @ 11:15AM

It seems,

That I am always called on to offer "verbal" thanks to God at family gatherings.

I generally begin:
"Father...you know our hearts. You know if we are thankful ...or not.

"You know our needs better than we do.

"Please, Father, join us at this table, get a giggle at our foolishness, please forgive our sins, and enjoy the fellowship with us as we recognize your presence here......"

Publius| 11.23.10 @ 11:17AM

Looks like the Obama/Jedi mind trick isn't working on the turkey, who appears turned off like the rest of the country (well, non-moochers anyway).

cdc| 11.23.10 @ 11:22AM

Atheists and non-believers are a significant religious minority in the US (~10%). Shouldn't they got some modicum of representation?

Ken (Old Texican)| 11.23.10 @ 11:31AM

cdc,
yes you should.

In the mean time, we will be praying that each of you discover our joy in our relationship with our Creator.

digitusmedius| 11.23.10 @ 1:28PM

While those of us who live in the rational world will keep working for a day when mankind isn't ruled by the superstitions from the cave.

NavyBrat | 11.23.10 @ 3:22PM

And how do you plan to do that, exactly? Your "rational world" includes feeling up little kids & urostomy patients in the security line. Yeah, THAT sounds "rational."

digitusmedius| 11.23.10 @ 7:40PM

That's not a world of my making and neither praying to some imaginary spirit nor listening to hysterical right wingers ranting about how bad this is and at the same time demanding that the government "do everything" to keep them safe, isn't going to fix it.

Anommynous| 11.23.10 @ 11:35AM

They already do. The President of the United States is an atheist.

And of course the powerful liberal atheist lawyers like the ACLU do all they can to eliminate public displays of religion. It's funny, though, how often liberal atheists try to fill their religious void by instead placing their faith (without evidence) in misguided causes, like manmade global warming or Hope and Change.

cdc| 11.23.10 @ 11:46AM

I thought the consensus was that Obama was a muslim who attends anti-american christian churches.

Publius| 11.23.10 @ 11:58AM

A distinction without a difference.

cdc| 11.23.10 @ 12:01PM

Seems like a rather large difference.

digitusmedius| 11.23.10 @ 1:25PM

cdc, you're in for a big headache if you expect any coherence from right wingers.

beebop| 11.24.10 @ 6:26PM

versus, say, the condescending "we know better" from the left .... yeah. So much better ...

bugger off

Anommynous| 11.23.10 @ 12:00PM

Oh heavens, no. Obama worships a supreme being named Obama.

Ted R.| 11.23.10 @ 12:06PM

Hah - good one, cdc! As an atheist myself, I only WISH Obama were. He's certainly intelligent enough to know better. Unfortunately, like millions of educated liberals, when it comes to religion, he just checks his brain in at the door.

Instead, he's just another bourgeosie, not-wear-his-faith-0n-his-sleeve Christian type. Unlike Bush, he doesn't go around mouthing sweet-nothing pieties into the ears of the Christianly correct; so, when he soft-pedals religion (as is only appropriate for a head of state of a country that has a real diversity of faiths), the Christianists pounce on it as proof that he is an infidel. Cynical and hypocrtical, but what can you do? Cynicism and Hypocrisy are the conservative's core values.

Steve A| 11.23.10 @ 12:37PM

Hey Ted, Your belief that there is no God does not make it so. Neither does my belief that there is a God make it so. They are both articles of faith. To assert that this is all some cosmic coincidence is absurd. If in the beginning there was nothing, that is where it would have remained.

Ted R.| 11.23.10 @ 1:30PM

The brute fact is that Something exists (this cosmos which we live in) rather than Nothing. You are right, that from nothing, nothing can come; therefore, the cosmos has to have existed from eternity. No Creation required.

If, on the other hand, you want to believe in a Creator, you have to believe that the Creator can bring Something (our cosmos) into existence out of nothing - which is patently absurd. Again, nothing can come from nothing. No cosmic magician, no matter how powerful, can do the impossible and pull a universe out of his hat.

My way, we only have one Mystery confronting us - why the universe exists at all. Your way, we have two: Why a god should exist at all, and how that god makes existence out of non-existence. By Ockham's Razor, my explanation is the better, simpler one, and requires less "faith."

We can't explain everything - when it comes to the existence of the cosmos, taking the universe as a brute given is all we rationally have.

D. Singh| 11.24.10 @ 3:57AM

Ted R.

'... the cosmos has to have existed from eternity. '

Utter rubbish. Your bald assertion without a scintilla of scientific support violates the Second Law of Thermodynamics.

Energy and matter degrade over time. Therefore, the comos must have had a beginning caused - in order not to violate the Law of Causality.

Ted R.| 11.24.10 @ 10:35PM

Just in case you come back:

The LOGIC of time, and the FIRST Law of Thermodyamics, requires that the temporal-manifold, if it exists at all, must exist from eternity. You don't have the 2nd Law - or , a fortiori, causality - WITHOUT time.

Not to mention that, when you claim that time was created, you substitute a rational principle (an eternally existing temporal manifold) with a fundamentally mysterious one (an eternally existing AGENT who (somehow) is exempt from the 2nd Law. Sorry, you can't solve cosmological puzzles with a Deus Ex Machina.

D. Singh| 11.25.10 @ 4:08AM

Sir

Ted R.’s logic is faulty. Take this as an example: ‘… the FIRST Law of Thermodyamics, requires that the temporal-manifold, if it exists at all, must exist from eternity.’ Clearly he doubts that the ‘temporal manifold’ exists: ‘if it exists at all’ - and then moves to a position where he assumes, bizarrely, that he has proved (magically?) its existence: ‘an eternally existing temporal manifold’.

He then makes an extraordinary admission: ‘an eternally existing AGENT [God] who (somehow) is exempt from the 2nd Law.’ The extraordinary admission is that he attributes to the ‘eternally existing AGENT’ the attribute of eternity!

He then abandons the laws of logic: ‘an eternally existing AGENT who (somehow) is exempt from the 2nd Law.’

Given that the Second Law of Thermodynamics is about matter and energy degrading over time: he cannot see that that which is Eternal (his description) cannot be subject to the Second Law of Thermodynamics. That is why He is EXEMPT.

So let me sum up the argument for your readers:

The issues are simple: energy cannot be created by NATURAL MEANS. That is consistent with the First Law of Thermodynamics. Energy and matter cannot be eternal. That is consistent with the Second Law of Thermodynamics.

Therefore, it is reasonable to assume that our Maker caused energy and matter into being. Our Maker not being natural means.

The first law of thermodynamics explains that energy cannot be created nor destroyed by natural means.

a. Intelligent Design proponents argue that a supernatural origin of the universe therefore is most reasonable and consistent with a known law of science.

b. Evolutionists insist that energy must have been created by natural means in spite of the first law of thermodynamics.

c. Which is more credible: theories in contradiction or theories consistent with scientific laws of today?

2. Evidence two: Second law of thermodynamics

a. The second law of thermodynamics explains that energy does not increase in complexity and order in a closed system by natural means.

b. Intelligent Design proponents argue that a supernatural origin of the universe therefore is most reasonable and consistent with a known law of science.

c. Which is more credible: theories in contradiction or theories consistent with scientific laws of today?

Ted R.| 11.25.10 @ 8:02PM

I never said that I doubted the existence of the temporal manifold. I do agree that its existence is ultimately contingent; it did not have to exist. The 'if' I used when I said "if it exists," was not intended to express doubt about whether our ulitmately contingent universe is actually existing.

I am not admitting that any putative Creator is ACTUALLY eternal; I am merely reporting the putative attribute of eternal existence that OTHERS (yourself, for instance) are asserting (without evidence) that a putatively existing "God" has.

Any agent that is supposed to exist eternally, most definitely is an agent in violation of the 2nd Law.

Unless, you mean to use the term "eternal" in a theological sense, viz. the "existing outside space and time" sense. That is not how I am using the term, here.

Ted R.| 11.25.10 @ 9:01PM

(continued from the subsequent post)

By 'eternal,' I simply mean: stretching back into an infinite past time. No agent can do this - unless, like a perpetual motion machine, it violates the 2nd Law.

Energy cannot be created from nothing, without violating the laws of logic, as well as the First Law. The First Law, if true, entails that energy does not need to be created, since it exists perpetually.

If you insist that energy had to have been specially created Ex Nihilo, in other words, you are dispensing with the First Law. You are at your leave to do that, but once you do, the immediate consequence is that we no longer live in a rational universe.

It is not "reasonable" to assume that any "Maker" created the cosmos from nothing. Not reasonable, since the cosmos in toto CAN'T have been created - if it exists in the first place, it must have existed from eternity/existed everlastingly. Not reasonable, because your "explanation" leaves out of the account a smacking HUGE assumption about the existence and intentions of an invisible, super-powerful agent. This assumption is simply not warranted, because the cosmos does not need an explanation (indeed, none can be rationally provided) for why it exists. Your argument falls to Ockham's Razor.

The First Law does NOT state that energy can only be created by supernatural means. It DOES imply that energy cannot be created by any rational process.

Ted R.| 11.25.10 @ 9:13PM

(second continued)

It is simply false to claim that ID is consistent with general mechanics or with the known facts of biology.

Evolutionary theorists do not claim that structure came from nothing. THAT is what the ID proponents do. Biologists have know for over a hundred years, how entropy and increasing biological complexity are compatible. Indeed, they are not only compatible, they are richly inter-related: All complex life depends on nourishment by dead organisms. And all live things die.

It is simply ID propoganda and woeful ignorance, to claim that biology and the2nd Law are in contradiction. Try to make that claim and you'll be laughed out of court. Indeed that's exactly what happened, in the Dover case from a couple of years ago.

Alas, that's how conservatism survives: it thrives on propoganda and the willful ignorance of its adherents.

D. Singh| 11.26.10 @ 2:59AM

Sir

Ted R. wrote:

‘The 'if' I used when I said "if it exists," was not intended to express doubt…’

He now appears just like nursery school character Humpty Dumpty: ‘When I use a word it means exactly what I choose it to mean.’

He chunters on knowing the import of what I said and implicitly admitting it:

‘Any agent that is supposed to exist eternally, most definitely is an agent in violation of the 2nd Law.
Unless, you mean to use the term "eternal" in a theological sense, viz. the "existing outside space and time" sense. That is not how I am using the term, here’.

I wonder in what sense he uses the term ‘eternal’ given that its correct meaning cannot be in accord with a materialist world-view? In other words he is clearly confused.

After claiming to clear up the confusion – he continues the confusion:

‘By 'eternal,' I simply mean: stretching back into an infinite past time’ he writes. But is oblivious to the naked contradiction in his use of ‘infinite past time’. Either that which is eternal is eternal or it isn’t.

He then cannot bring himself with the necessary degree of humility to understand my argument which I have made plain:

He writes:

‘If you insist that energy had to have been specially created Ex Nihilo, in other words, you are dispensing with the First Law.’

At the risk of repetition, I made it clear to him that an agent that is supra-natural could have created energy and matter. That would not violate the First Law of Thermodynamics as the First Law clearly states that energy and matter cannot be created by natural means. Thus positing a supra-natural does not violate the First Law.

It is his treatment of the Second Law of Thermodynamics that is irrational and unscientific. He insists that matter and energy has always existed.

That assertion is denied by the scientific community because it contradicts accepted observations of the universe and violates the Second Law of Thermodynamics.

Ted R.| 11.27.10 @ 9:56AM

You know very well that words can have more than one meaning. It is obvious that one, uncontested, meaning of "eternal" is "everlasting" or "forever existing." It is intellectually shallow for you to quibble over this. "Forever existing" is the - entirely legitimate -sense in which I have been using the term 'eternal.'

What I am saying is that the universe, taken in toto, does not need a cause, any more than you would say that God needs a cause. Since we have a cosmos, by its very nature (the very nature and logic of time itself) the cosmos must exist everlastingly. This is acknowledged by the first law; further, it is FALSE to say that it is contradicted by the 2nd. The 2nd says that entropy increases in a closed system, NOT that energy passes out of existence.

It is FALSE to claim that the First Law stipulates that "matter and energy cannot be created by natural means." Instead, it says: Energy can be neither created nor destroyed. Period. As stated, the First Law does not logically rule out the existence of a supernatural Agent-Creator; but it does make such a being an unnecessary hypothesis. And, per Ockham's Razor, we can dispense with the hypothesis altogether.

You can believe in an Agent-Creator, if you want; but far from rounding out the explanatory power of physics by (supposedly) giving physics a metaphysical ground, the thesis of an Agent-Creator makes nonsense of science altogether.

The reason why is simple. If your Agent-Creator exists, and created the world Ex Nihilo, then its own fiat decrees are ontologically more fundamental, have more reality, than anything that science can determine. The decrees override science. There are no true constants in nature; no genuine structure. All depends on the Agent-Creators whim. Anything can happen from one moment to the next - things can pop out of existence from nothing, or suddenly and totally disappear. Up can be down, right can be wrong. It is the abolition of all rationality and science.

Furthermore, the very idea of an Eternal (in the sense of the term that you prefer) Agent-Creator is utterly incoherent. To be an agent, to form intentions and to take action - which is certainly what is going on if the Agent brings the universe into existence by Fiat - requires TIME. You cannot think, let alone act on your thoughts, where time is NOT. Yet you incoherently suggest that the Agent "acts" where there is no time to make action possible. Ludicrous.

The inconsistencies and incoherencies associated with a monotheist cosmology are legion. You can choose to believe for emotional reasons, but to do so you have to forsake basic logic. For my part, that which is incredible does not deserve to be credited.

D. Singh| 11.29.10 @ 6:19AM

Sir

Ted R. says that:

‘What I am saying is that the universe, taken in toto, does not need a cause, any more than you would say that God needs a cause. Since we have a cosmos, by its very nature (the very nature and logic of time itself) the cosmos must exist everlastingly’.

Essentially what he is saying is that the cosmos does not need cause. Given that from his point of view it does not need a cause he then must claim it has no cause and indeed it must be ‘eternal’: self-existing.

Prof Hawking made it clear in The Beginning of Time: ‘The conclusion of this lecture is that the universe has not existed forever. Rather, the universe, and time itself, had a beginning in the Big Bang, about 15 billion years ago’.

Tom Parsi from the University of Illinois states: ‘Scientists generally agree that "the Big Bang" birthed the universe about 15 billion years ago’.

‘Many once believed that the universe had no beginning or end and was truly infinite. Through the inception of the Big Bang theory, however, no longer could the universe be considered infinite. The universe was forced to take on the properties of a finite phenomenon, possessing a history and a beginning’ state Chris LaRocco and Blair Rothstein, University of Michigan

‘The universe had a beginning. There was once nothing and now there is something." Janna Levin, Department of Applied Mathematics and Theoretical Physics at Cambridge University.

The cosmos certainly needed a cause. Ted R. disagrees against the conclusions of the astro-physics community. Not very scientific of him.

But why does Ted R. object to the idea of God creating the universe? Is the objection scientific or emotional? It is the latter. He objects to God because he attributes to God the possibility, incorrectly, of inconsistency:

‘The reason why is simple. If your Agent-Creator exists, and created the world Ex Nihilo, then its own fiat decrees are ontologically more fundamental, have more reality, than anything that science can determine [correct!]. The decrees override science [correct in some cases: miracles!].’

He goes on and in his opinion without scientific support states:

‘There are no true constants in nature; no genuine structure. All depends on the Agent-Creators whim. Anything can happen from one moment to the next - things can pop out of existence from nothing, or suddenly and totally disappear’.


Not satisfied with that he conjures a moral attack:

‘Up can be down, right can be wrong. It is the abolition of all rationality and science’.

Still at least he is consistent with the atheistic grandfather of Nazism Friedrich Nietzsche (1844-1900) who observed that if God is dead then to borrow Ted R.’s conclusion:

‘Up can be down, right can be wrong. It is the abolition of all rationality and science’.

Have you not heard of that madman who lit a lantern in the bright morning hours, ran to the market place, and cried incessantly: "I seek God! I seek God!" -- As many of those who did not believe in God were standing around just then, he provoked much laughter. Has he got lost? asked one. Did he lose his way like a child? asked another. Or is he hiding? Is he afraid of us? Has he gone on a voyage? emigrated? -- Thus they yelled and laughed.

The madman jumped into their midst and pierced them with his eyes. "Whither is God?" he cried; "I will tell you. We have killed him -- you and I. All of us are his murderers. But how did we do this? How could we drink up the sea? Who gave us the sponge to wipe away the entire horizon? What were we doing when we unchained this earth from its sun? Whither is it moving now? Whither are we moving? Away from all suns? Are we not plunging continually? Backward, sideward, forward, in all directions? Is there still any up or down? Are we not straying, as through an infinite nothing? Do we not feel the breath of empty space? Has it not become colder? Is not night continually closing in on us? Do we not need to light lanterns in the morning? Do we hear nothing as yet of the noise of the gravediggers who are burying God? Do we smell nothing as yet of the divine decomposition? Gods, too, decompose. God is dead. God remains dead. And we have killed him.
"How shall we comfort ourselves, the murderers of all murderers? What was holiest and mightiest of all that the world has yet owned has bled to death under our knives: who will wipe this blood off us? What water is there for us to clean ourselves? What festivals of atonement, what sacred games shall we have to invent? Is not the greatness of this deed too great for us? Must we ourselves not become gods simply to appear worthy of it? There has never been a greater deed; and whoever is born after us -- for the sake of this deed he will belong to a higher history than all history hitherto."

Here the madman fell silent and looked again at his listeners; and they, too, were silent and stared at him in astonishment. At last he threw his lantern on the ground, and it broke into pieces and went out. "I have come too early," he said then; "my time is not yet. This tremendous event is still on its way, still wandering; it has not yet reached the ears of men. Lightning and thunder require time; the light of the stars requires time; deeds, though done, still require time to be seen and heard. This deed is still more distant from them than most distant stars -- and yet they have done it themselves.

It has been related further that on the same day the madman forced his way into several churches and there struck up his requiem aeternam deo. Led out and called to account, he is said always to have replied nothing but: "What after all are these churches now if they are not the tombs and sepulchers of God?"

MikeD| 11.24.10 @ 8:31PM

I find it amazing that none of you has mentioned the "Big Bang", so far, the most scientifically plausible theory of where the universe came from. Sounds frighteningly like "...Let there be light."

Having spent way too much time on campus teaching various engineering and physics courses, I finally got a real job in the real world. I always find it interesting that the more astrophysicists know, the more fervently they believe in, and defend the existence of God. Believe what you want, but we'll all reach that particular moment when we'll KNOW the truth. An old folk song refrain went: "I'll swear there ain't no Heaven but I'll pray there ain't no Hell." Your lives must be terribly empty.

And don't throw the old line about all the terrible things done in the name of religion. God is no closer to religion than He is to rock music. One day you'll know, probably well before you're ready.

Ted R.| 11.24.10 @ 10:44PM

If you've spent time in the only place in the real world where serious and sustained thought on these matter is conducted - the University - then you should know that the physicists do not take Big Bang cosmology to portray the universe as having come into existence Ex Nihilo.

At the moment we can only speculate what preceeded the Bang, or what parts of the Cosmos exist beyond the horizon of the known universe. But, once and for all, it is time for us to cashier the vanity and chase after the wind that is religion.

D. Singh| 11.25.10 @ 4:54AM

Ted R. says:

'... then you should know that the physicists do not take Big Bang cosmology to portray the universe as having come into existence Ex Nihilo.

Then how would they explain the First and Second Laws of Thermodynamics?

D. Singh| 11.25.10 @ 4:59AM

And by the way Ted R. the first law states that energy and matter cannot be created by natural means. And science addressing consistently the material universe reamins silent on super natural means.

rigdumfunidos| 11.23.10 @ 6:25PM

atheists believe in reason, believers in faith. since an atheist cannot explain the first cause through reason, he has no more standing than a religious person--in fact less, since they admit their believe is not founded upon reason while the atheist puts all hope in reason and then can't explain the first thing. In some sense, the only really bright ones are agnostics.

Ted R.| 11.23.10 @ 7:00PM

The very nature of reason acknowledges that we cannot know everything; that we must start all our inquiries with basic givens or axioms. That isn't contrary to reason; that's how logic and science work.

Using reason, we see that there is no need to explain the "first" cause. The religious insist on trying to give an answer to this Mystery, and succeed only in an infinite regress of "explanations."

And I wouldn't bother much with the agnostics. They are basically an incurious lot who don't want to do the heavy lifting of thinking through these fundamental issues, the reflective work that is required toin to arrive at a set of convictions concerning them.

D. Singh| 11.25.10 @ 4:13AM

Ted R.

'that we must start all our inquiries with basic givens or axioms. '

Tell us what these basic 'given's and 'axioms' are and where you got them from.

Pretty please.

digitusmedius| 11.23.10 @ 8:38PM

you left an important difference out of the mix: an atheist does not create a mythology to account for what can't--yet--be explained.

D. Singh| 11.25.10 @ 6:45AM

digitusmedius| 11.23.10 @ 8:38PM
you left an important difference out of the mix: an atheist does not create a mythology to account for what can't--yet--be explained.

WRONG!

digitusmedius| 11.23.10 @ 7:37PM
you can give thanks to whatever mythical being you wish; I'm giving thanks to the fates for allowing me to live in a country where people like you can't control my life.

The One Who Runs Like a Duck| 11.23.10 @ 12:46PM

We took a shellacking, Ted R. Ted you don't get me. I went to Reverend Wright's church for twenty years. He was my spiritual mentor. G$# damn Amerikkka. The chickens are coming home to roost. Eh, what's that you say, I was napping, wink, wink. Checking my brain at the door, no way. In fact you sell the same stuff. Why can't we do it in a church? Racist! He never talked about Jesus that much anyway. You make me sound like Robert Byrd and his relationship with the KKK. Maybe you have a point. We were both just playing for votes in the race obsessed Democratic Party. You are pretty smart. Why that was all pretty cynical and hypocritical on the Democrat's part. You are quite a projector aren't you? Close gitmo yourself, baby.

Ted R.| 11.23.10 @ 1:34PM

At least you admit he's not a secret Muslim. For you, at least, I have to say that that's progress...

D. Singh| 11.25.10 @ 6:12AM

Ted R.

If he is a secret Muslim - then we the people won't know. We can only suspect.

axbucxdu| 11.23.10 @ 1:05PM

Thus spake the Progressive: "Will of the community", "bourgeosie", and this gem: "Cynicism and Hypocrisy are the conservative's core values."

From his very pen, then, we are now led to conclude that sincerity and honor are the pillars of HIS creed.

Reductio ad absurdum is such a rich source of comedy.

Ted R.| 11.23.10 @ 1:44PM

Never said that the Liberals were perfect. But our worldview, unlike yours, is not inherently inimical to the equal dignity in freedom for all, in an open society of genuine equality of opportunity.

Conservatism's roots trace back to a past with vested hierarchies, and the worship of power for its own sake. Authoritarianism is embedded deep in the Con's DNA. It comes out in a hundred different ways in the posts I read here.

The One Who Runs Like a Duck| 11.23.10 @ 2:12PM

We took a shellacking, Ted R. It always amazes me how my paid trolls will take such beat downs and stumble out them thinking that they have won. By the way Teddy, you are projecting again. Hierarchies like an Ivy League political class, worship of power like creating massive government programs that are total failures or unsustainable and always shooting for more of the same, authoritarianism like the power to tax is the power to destroy, like we'll tell you what kind of cars to drive, what kinds of toilets to use, what kind of food you should eat, what kind of yard you can have, where and if you are going to see the doctor, what kind of insurance you are going to have, how many children you should have, what are acceptable views to have on a college campus without receiving some kind of sanctions, if you have the proper racial credentials to get a particular job, whether you can protect your person or property, etc. Oh yea we want to create an open society of genuine equality of opportunity. Orwell would have a lot of fun with your use of language. It is kind of funny how becoming a corporatist fascist sneaks up you, Teddy. If you can elevate your racial thinking to a new level you can become a full fledged Nazi. The other day all your talk about who were and were not real Americans showed you've got the nationalism angle pretty well down. You're the man, Herr Teddy. We'll be out of Afghanistan in 2011, baby.

alaskan| 11.23.10 @ 7:42PM

Teddy, still at it? Posting all day, get a job, pay taxes, grow up.
We knew you were a left wing windbag, a commie, and now an atheist. Each is consistent with the other, no surprises.,


t

Ted R.| 11.23.10 @ 9:11PM

Hah - I could toss of replies to your entries in my sleep - it doesn't take anything off my day. All you've got is namecalling? No surprise.

alaskan| 11.23.10 @ 11:42PM

No name calling, all three are accurate descriptions. You are an atheist, a left winger, a commie. Are those name calling? You do not deny that you do not work. You post all day.

D. Singh| 11.24.10 @ 4:45AM

Sir

Ted R. does reveal why liberalism eventually slides into a communist oppression:

‘But our worldview, unlike yours, is not inherently inimical to the equal dignity in freedom for all, in an open society of genuine equality of opportunity.’

Article 34 of the 1977 Constitution of the USSR projects a similar world-view regarding social relations:

‘Citizens of the USSR are equal before the law, without distinction of origin, social or property status, race or nationality, sex, education, language, attitude to religion, type and nature of occupation, domicile, or other status. The equal rights of citizens of the USSR are guaranteed in all fields of economic, political, social, and cultural life.’

Over in Europe under the European Convention on Human Rights Article 14 states:

‘The enjoyment of the rights and freedoms set forth in this convention shall be secured without discrimination on any ground such as sex, race, colour, language, religion, political or other opinion, national or social origin, association with a national minority, property, birth or other status.’

Well how do liberals such as Ted R. use these types of apparently human rights instruments to legitimise tyranny?

When two rights, for example religion and sexual orientation, collide in a court of law there has to be a winner. The liberal ruling class ensures that the Judaeo-Christian loses. Using that method they silence not only Judaeo-Christianity but drive it out of the public square.

To put it bluntly they are not establishing ‘equal dignity in freedom for all, in an open society of genuine equality of opportunity’ but a new hierarchy of oppression.

They justify their tyranny under the guise of human rights. And that justification is not only un-American but inimical to freedom, security and liberty.

MikeD| 11.24.10 @ 10:05PM

Ted R., you're wrong. Conservatives believe in pragmatism and a common sense based morality of right and wrong. The liberal worldview has no basis in any kind of fact based belief system. Generally, whatever has been proven to work is generally derided by Liberals and they love to spend other people's money to sooth their social conscious. They base every issue on emotion instead of fact and are devoted to the cult of neverending victimhood. And, to top it off, they always take the side of whoever criticizes America.

Pick an issue, and they're either wrong or on the wrong side of fact. "Global Warming: Junk Science. Healthcare: A means to redistribute income and exert power. They ridiculed Reagan's policy of defeating the Soviet Union, continually advocating appeasment and accomodation. They were wrong; Reagan was right. Liberals have killed millions of aborted babies in their campaign to buy the fringe feminist's votes; but Black Americans never stop to think that the lion's share of aborted babies were Black. How's THAT for supporting the needs of Blacks? The Democrats have destroyed the Black family and done everything they can to keep Blacks down. How many senior Blacks have ANY DEMOCRAT ever appointed to cabinet level posts? Don't waste your time. Eternal victimhood has done nothing for Black Americans but destroy their families and make whites look at every successful Black while wondering if they earned the position or went through affirmative action. After the disaster called Obama, will Blacks ever be taken seriously again? Only if the Libs/Dems play the neverending "Race Card".

Of course, Liberals tend to be sheltered from the 'real world' and ALWAYS expect exemption from the restrictions and control they advocate imposing on others. They are overwelmingly in government, Academia, or Trust Fund Recipients. They generally hate people who actually earned enough to have more than they do, and will do anything to 'level the playing field'. They don't want 'equal opportunities, they want 'equal outcomes', enforced by the State on their behalf.

Denver Todd| 11.23.10 @ 11:55AM

Obama isn't THE antichrist. He is just a TYPE of antichrist.

NavyBrat | 11.23.10 @ 11:55AM

Great. So we have this fool of a President first trying to re make the image of 9-11 into a "national day of service." Now we have the same flavor of crap being injected into one of our truly unique American holidays. What's next? Will the Fourth of July now signify the begining of when the world went to hell in a handbasket due to the establishment of the evil, imperialist, white supremacist America?

I plan to have a great Thanksgiving with a smoked turkey & all the fixings from one of the best BBQ shops in the Memphis area, The Germantown Commissary. My wife, mother & I will bow our heads in thanks to G*d for his many blessings. We will give thanks, as always, to those who're fighting for our safety, that we may continue to give our thanks to Him in this way each & every year.

To all my fellow Am Spec posters, have a happy & blessed Thanksgiving.

PS. The food Nazis & their leader, Angela Davis Jr. (Michelle Obama) would be VERY upset at the mashed potatoes I'm making. Yukon golds whipped up with butter, heavy cream, asiago & parmesan cheeses, & some black pepper & chives. Then again, Angela Davis Jr. may eat the whole 5 lbs of potatoes to herself, THEN have us fined for making such unhealthy food.

Bill| 11.23.10 @ 12:09PM

If the holiday is called Thanksgiving and we don't give thanks to God, who DO we thank?

NavyBrat | 11.23.10 @ 12:47PM

You didn't get the memo?

We're supposed to thank our gracious Dear Leader, Obama!

digitusmedius| 11.23.10 @ 1:47PM

This is what I love about people of faith. Faith is never sufficient for its own sake. There has to be an idol or icon. Thanksgiving can't be just a feeling from the heart for one's good fortune, it has to be directed to some supernatural entity. It's all ritual and no substance.

NavyBrat | 11.23.10 @ 3:19PM

Oh, shut up. It has no substance to YOU, but it has plenty to the rest of us. Yes, you're just so much more superior than all of us who believe in G*d.

Mojo Risin| 11.23.10 @ 12:36PM

Obonehead can't acknowledge an entity beyond his own. He said he was going to "Fundamentally transform America," yep, just fulfilling his vow. Obama doesn't know how to give credit, his ego won't permit it. Traditionally American's give thanks to their respective deity while sharing a meal, now there's a tradition that needs transforming and Obonehead has the ego to do it.

That vision is in the forefront when thinking of the celebration of Christmas. If my memory serves me, the Obama's don't exchange gifts, really? Is Kwanzaa the celebration of choice, or some variation on the redistributionist, Black Liberation Theological theme? Oh, maybe a sweat pit is dug out on the White House lawn and the inhabitants/guests enter the aforementioned pit, oiled-up and attired in ceremonial loin cloths, dancing around the pit-fire chanting slogans of clenched-fist freedom from oppression by the "MAN."

RCV| 11.23.10 @ 5:15PM

It's pretty obvious from where your blind hatred of our President stems...

Badger On| 11.23.10 @ 5:42PM

Nobody but outright racists would like a narcissist like President Obama and then only theoretically. You should read what his class mates had to say about him. Who would want to spend 30 seconds with a guy like that?

http://www.weeklystandard.com/.....16686.html

beebop| 11.23.10 @ 6:17PM

sigh ... he's so vain, he probably thinks that song is about him.

beebop| 11.24.10 @ 6:22PM

I bet he's really after Santa Claus.

I mean, seriously? How can even the government compete with a guy who gives toys out to the good and coal to the bad ....

JFGalt| 11.23.10 @ 12:56PM

In thinking about all the movies or TV shows in recent years in where the US was destroyed wasn't the president portrayed by a black man? I'm not saying it out of prejudice against blacks (Colin Powell would have been an infintely better choice for America than Bush, Clinton or OBAMA!) but in light of the fact that Hollywood often telegraphs what the future portends. Makes you wonder what the PTB had in mind with him. Just my little bit of OBAMA! bashing for today.

digitusmedius| 11.23.10 @ 1:08PM

"I wish you salmonella poisoning from your under cooked turkey, and a tryptophan induced car accident."

It's always good to be reminded of the low class goonery inherent in the right wing.

JeffW| 11.23.10 @ 2:46PM

"It's always good to be reminded of the low class goonery inherent in the right wing."

Pot, meet Kettle

Loshooligan| 11.23.10 @ 8:34PM

Digitus minimus,

It’s always good to be reminded of the demagoguery leftist like you spew as “rational thought”. Your use of assumptive language, throughout your postings, just shows that your intellectual prowess is a joke at best. I guess when you call people names it’s all good as long as it serves the better good of furthering your agenda. It is apparent that your hypocrisy knows no bounds
By the way….I prefer to be called a right wing E-Thug.

P.S. I got your digitus medius right here.

Rev. Jeffrey Symynkywicz | 11.23.10 @ 1:12PM

I don't usually hang out in the muck and mire of websites like this one. And I must say that many of the comments by you rabid Obamafobes have left me thinking of a mid-afternoon bath. But I think the Right is (uh) right in one of its criticisms of this present administration: that it is way out of touch with the way that we "normal" Americans out here in the provinces see and do and react to things. Here’s my "the Obamites don't have a clue" story, and tis one actually has a Thanksgiving Proclamation rub: Here in the town of Stoughton, in the Commonwealth of Massachusetts (may its nake be praised), we have a yearly interfaith Thaksgiving service for the whole community. For as long as I can remember (I've been here 18 years now), and perhaps for decades, one tradition at that service was for a member of the local clergy to read the Thanksgiving proclamation of the current President. Now, this year, we will be unable to do so, because, I was informed by someone in the Social Office at the White House, this year’s proclamation will not be posted until Wednesday– the day before Thanksgiving itself. In previous years, the proclamation was available no later than the Sunday prior to Thanksgiving; last year, President Obama’s first Thanksgiving proclamation was released on the Monday before Thanksgiving– still in time for our service. Now, with the delay until Wednesday, another tradition falls by the wayside, for no apparent reason. When I spoke with people at various White House offices about the ramificiations of such a tardy posting of the Proclamation, their responses indicated that they saw me as some kind of Man in the Moon. They seemed to have no sense of the kind of civic rituals that we people of faith (widely different faiths) here in the hinterland engage in. I am sure that we are not the only comunity in the United States facing this dilemma. And posting the proclamation on Wednesday guarantees very limited coverage by any forms of the media. We are disappointed that we won’t be able to read the President’s words. I suppose we'll have to settle for Lincoln's. We could, indeed, do much worse. But even more disappointing is that no one I spoke with at the White House seems to care about the situation. So, my right wing friends, don't worry about Obama's "godless" pronouncements; by their own ineptitude, his handlers have pretty much guaranteed that no one will read, or hear, them anyway. Thanks.

digitusmedius| 11.23.10 @ 1:43PM

I'm sure the people of Stoughton know that Thanksgiving Day is Thursday, not Wednesday. Does it usually take more than two days for someone to prepare to read an already written and brief statement? Or, if you've decided that Wednesday is the day for this Momentous Occasion in Stoughton, I wonder why the township feels its schedule should dictate that of the President's. That could be interpreted as just a wee bit arrogant for people of such "faith," oh excuse me, "interfaith."

Rev. Jeffrey Symynkywicz | 11.23.10 @ 2:01PM

Hm? Of course, Thanksgiving is Thursday. But I would bet that in communities all across our great land, there are religious and civic Thanksgiving observances from Sunday onward. At some number of these observances, someone reads the President's proclamation. (One would assume that the President proclaims it so that it might be widely read, printed, disbursed, etc) I think that previous administrations, by issuing the Proclamation earlier in the week seemed to have some better sense of this (though I may be just supposing here). At any rate, issuing the Proclamation the day before the holiday seems to guarantee a smaller pool of interest. (Veterans Day is November 11; the President's Veterans Day Proclamation was posted on November 5. That gives the media time to report upon it far better than if it were issued on November 10. I'm not a marketing major, and I can figure that out!)
Anyway-- all is forgiven. I have the 2010 Proclamation in hand (thanks to the good offices of Congressman Stephen Lynch and his staff). It's rather good, too; very stirring and patriotic. And it mentions God-- 3 times :-)
A happy Thanksgiving to you all. Thanks.

digitusmedius| 11.23.10 @ 8:39PM

You can't imagine my relief, Rev.

NEGRO X | 11.23.10 @ 5:19PM

Sorry reverend troll, you liberal morons always preface your rants with the same line" I usually don't". Go back and worship obama's anus

RCV| 11.23.10 @ 5:36PM

You are one of the most foulmouthed posters on this site, with an anal obsession and a vocabulary pretty limited to "troll", "moron" and "anus". You have nothing of any intellectual content to add, so I'm not quite sure why you feel the need to post at all.

digitusmedius| 11.23.10 @ 8:41PM

His mommy must have told him he was so cute and clever (right after downing her fourth Valium) enough that he actually grew up believing it.

Yosemeti Sam| 11.23.10 @ 1:50PM

Um, showtime peace and blessings be upon you from your diety - BHO.

John Mack| 11.23.10 @ 2:34PM

Do many of the comments here honor Christ, or do they reflect the subordination of the Catholic Church to the American far right?

ทาสีคอนโด | 11.23.10 @ 2:43PM

Not to mention Jefferson, who declined to issue a Thanksgiving proclamation at all on the grounds that it was improper for the President to direct the nation to pray to God.

Dan| 11.23.10 @ 4:56PM

But he has a prayer rug. And, if he has to do so, he can claim he atteded Rev. Wright's hate America church for 19 years, although he never heard a word.

Sue| 11.23.10 @ 5:00PM

Doesn't anyone remember the comment from Obama that his mother woke him up at 5:00 a.m. before school and taught him the Constitution of the US (when they lived in Indonesia)? I choked when I heard that. He didn't elaborate and say "what she taught me" about it. Given the past remarks, I think she taught him that the "God" part was in error and he should "fix" it when he becomes the first black president!

RCV| 11.23.10 @ 5:34PM

A little obsessed with the President's race, aren't you? Sorry you feel the need to disparage the story.

mac| 11.23.10 @ 5:59PM

Of course Obama believes in God! Just not the Christian one, or Islamic one, for that matter. To personalize his own words, He "is the one we have been waiting for." and his dominion is enlarged by government!

Geoff Elliott| 11.23.10 @ 9:19PM

Why is it that people who profess to follow the teachings of Christ, who preached love and forgiveness, are so full of hatred for those who don't accept their beliefs? Just a rhetorical question. I have no dog in this fight.

Liberal Reader| 11.23.10 @ 11:38PM

Come on. Godless Thanksgiving?

I think that you might learn something about the conservative value of temperance.

I think it would be a good thing for more references to God in public discourse. I think I probably somewhere agree with some of your points.

But when you put it like this, when this issue gets joined to the most hysterical and idiotic fringes of the right, I back away from what you're saying. What's next? Obama's a Muslim secret agent and a Satanist, right?

I think a little less frothing at the mouth, a little less fear-mongering and hysteria, a little less sweeping condemnation and really obnoxious, pious sanctimony would make you more persuasive.

On a special feast day, Jesus dined with sinners.

I'm not asking you to dine with sinners. I'm sure you'll be surrounded by the pure and the devout this Thanksgiving.

But in the meantime, you might just try interpreting the motives of your political opponents with a tiny bit of generosity.

Marc Jeric| 11.24.10 @ 1:09AM

President Obama has impeded every effort by many people to obtain his records, as follows:
- Kindergarten records
- Punahou school records
- Occidental College records
- Columbia University records
- Harvard Law School records
- Passport
- Medical records
- Files from his years as an Illinois state senator - Illinois State Bar Association records
- Baptismal records
- Adoption records.

My question is why? Until he provides the American public with the above records I will call him Abu Hussein al-Mombassa (or wherever in Kenya that marxist Muslim eas born).

Pastor emeritus Nathan Bickel | 11.24.10 @ 2:02AM

Mr. Obama's ommission of God is no surprise for a man who, as state Illinois senator, was in favor of allowing babies surviving abortion, to be left alone and die.

Furthermore, President Obama is estranged from this country and its traditions -- and, its Triune God, because he is, at heart, a Muslim:

"Obama Admits He Is A Muslim:"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v.....re=related

"Obama Is No Joshua" -- by Cal Thomas -- .....Obama can call himself anything he likes, but there is a clear requirement for one to qualify as a Christian and Obama doesn’t meet that requirement. One cannot deny central tenets of the Christian faith, including the deity and uniqueness of Christ as the sole mediator between God and Man and be a Christian. Such people do have a label applied to them in Scripture. They are called “false prophets.”

http://www.calthomas.com/index.php?news=2288

ทาสีคอนโด | 11.24.10 @ 2:19AM

To omit "God" in everything America is the problem in a nutshell; progressives have literally destroyed this nation by systematically remove 'The Almighty God', and his blessing with their actions over the years, and now completed by obama.
This alone, the values brought out by spirituality is what needs to be restored.

audio converter for mac | 11.24.10 @ 3:39AM

ah ah ,this i s the best ,

badnewzbearz| 11.24.10 @ 4:54AM

Obama is a turkey. No doubt about it.

Michael Tank | 11.24.10 @ 6:42AM

A little sympathy for the devil folks... its got to be hard to include "Allah Akbar!" in a traditional American Thanksgiving Address, even when using teleprompters. But I bet he will before he leaves office.

SILLY ME| 11.24.10 @ 6:25PM

So why read an article proclaiming something else that this president has done to make you mad and "prove" that should not be president.
I read the proclamation here is a quote..."In confronting the challenges of our day, we must draw strength from the resolve of previous generations who faced their own struggles and take comfort in knowing a brighter day has always dawned on our great land. As we stand at the close of one year and look to the promise of the next, we lift up our hearts in gratitude to God for our many blessings, for one another, and for our Nation. This Thanksgiving Day, we remember that the freedoms and security we enjoy as Americans are protected by the brave men and women of the United States Armed Forces. These patriots are willing to lay down their lives in our defense, and they and their families deserve our profound gratitude for their service and sacrifice."
Seems Mr. Lord needs to re-read this and rewrite his comments.

John Lewis| 11.24.10 @ 7:42AM

Continue drinking from the chalice of hate and ignorance.

Janice Grounds| 11.24.10 @ 3:08PM

I know you on the right are uncomfortable with facts but the fact is that President Obama's Thanksgiving Proclamations are easy to find:
Last year: http://www.whitehouse.gov/the-.....giving-day

This year: http://www.whitehouse.gov/the-.....giving-day

Grasping at straws as usual in your President/American hating way. Read the proclamations and tell me how his faith is not apparant. I say it's more apparant than most of you posting on this site that claim to be Christians but wouldn't know the first thing about what it truly means.

Vic| 11.25.10 @ 8:17PM

Pot meet the Kos kettle.

dudeman| 11.25.10 @ 6:51AM

Uuuuuhhhhh.......seriously? I see a lot of hate here. Do christians really hang out here to let themsleves get offended and wallow in strife? which is sinful?.....and you on the left.....your big fancy college words and superiority complexes don't make you any more right than those who sit on the right.

Problem is.....no one wants to deal with the real issue.....there are problems in this country that are pulling it and all it ever stood for, fought for, sacrificed its sons for down into the pits of history. Organized religion, charitable organizations, politicians, and those who believe in nothing but the power of themselves and society as the savior, do nothing to curtail the circling of this once great and powerful nation down the drain.

Shut your friggin yaps, get of your butts and do something about it. Oh yeh....lots of talk and hate mongering here. But words do nothing to save us. Oh sure we feel good about what got said or we get miffed. But nobody does anything. Everyone claims to have the answers but still does nothing. Most "Christians" hold up God as something we can define and put in a box that goes on the shelf til Sunday morning when they go to church where other "christians" arrive. They praise God and each other, brag about how many homeless they clothed and fed then turn right around and gossip about the new schoolteacher that they stand in judgement of because she dresses too provacative for them. Most of you here have no idea how to start to fix what's wrong. But you'll claim to.
And those who claim no God or some variation of no God stand in utter disgust as they look over the masses. Largely "uneducated" and crass to their liking they flaunt big words to each other, arrogantly trying to display and outdo one another to see who is smarter. They serve no God and therefore see themselves as servants to the powers that be. And whoever has a larger slice of that power wins. They curse and mock the masses. Curse and mock God. All the while forcing their unbelief on our children in schools. If there is no God to be accountable to morally, morals disappear. If your told by the ones who are picked to teach you that there is no God, you came from a pool of slime and therefore no hell or heaven. Nothing to anticipate.....so just live in the moment. They scorn the soldier while shouting insults at them under the blanket of freedom provided by those soldiers.
What's the answer? Heck I don't know. I'm sure its not simple. Its most likely gonna take a lot of steps. But one thing is for sure.....just bitchin about it won't help. I'm takin the first step. I'm sayin stop all the mindless gibbering crap that you call reason and wisdom and start freakn doin something, anything.....besides spreading hate and discontent. In other words......Shut Up! Put your words into action.

Liberty Czar| 11.25.10 @ 11:39PM

When you look for the lowest denominator it is not Right vs Left, Republicans vs Democrats, freedom vs tyranny, it is Godly vs Godless.

John Lewis| 11.27.10 @ 3:46PM

All much ado about nothing, as is nearly everything to do with the right wing. You tell lies, more lies, and still more lies to the point that you begin to believe them yourself.

Tom| 11.28.10 @ 1:23AM

I will believe that President Obama is God loving when he decides that it is worth his while to go give thanks to God at church every Sunday. And I don't mean the false god of Islam. Usually president Obama sits around waiting for God to glofy him. I don't count the liberation theology churches as real churches. They don't even understand that abortion is killing babies. If they can't get that right, how can they get anything right? We stuck with somebody as president who has declared himself as a god. Not a hero but a Nero. Only president Obama set the fire.

Ciara| 11.30.10 @ 1:57PM

I dont get what the big dealio is, so he isnt a huge god-botherer so what! this is the 21st century, society is more secular and I think its cool hes not shoving christianity down peoples throats. Religion is a personal thing, if its forced on someone then what good is it?

More Articles by Jeffrey Lord

More Articles From The Obama Watch

Obama’s Assault on the First Amendment

May 22, 2013 | George Neumayr

Anyone Still Believe Me?

May 21, 2013 | Aaron Goldstein

Obama’s Far Left Hand

May 15, 2013 | George Neumayr

That Is What We Do

May 14, 2013 | Jay D. Homnick

Obama’s Rising Inequality

May 8, 2013 | Peter Ferrara

http://spectator.org/archives/2010/11/23/obamas-godless-thanksgiving

ADVERTISEMENT

Latest Headlines

Obama’s Assault on the First Amendment

George Neumayr|95 comments

Damage Control for Dummies

Matt Purple|54 comments

Time to Go for the Kill

Peter Ferrara|50 comments

Restrain the Abusive Administative State

Doug Bandow|18 comments

Disabling American Sovereignty

Iain Murray|10 comments

The Other Gosnells

Jordan Gonzalez|12 comments

Can He Unite Virginia’s GOP?

Carten Cordell|25 comments

Undoing the Brainwashing

Thomas Sowell|12 comments

The Spectacle Blog

Anthony Weiner’s Campaign Video

Patrick Ryan | 1:33PM

Congressional Democrat Outraged Over IRS Scandal

Kaylin Bugos | 12:57PM

Immigration Bill Clears Key Committee

Jordan Gonzalez | 11:56AM

Nixonian

Yogi Love | 11:54AM

Moore, OK by Steve Breen

Patrick Ryan | 11:50AM

He’s Just Not That Into You

Ross Kaminsky | 11:34AM

Curl is Right: Don’t Dismiss Benghazi

Quin Hillyer | 11:29AM

Issa’s Mistake

Ross Kaminsky | 11:11AM

SPONSORED LINKS

FLASHBACK TO: 1995

Clip of the Day

ADVERTISEMENT

Home |About |Contributors |Advertise |Donate |Privacy Policy |Contact

The American Spectator Foundation is the 501(c)(3) organization responsible for publishing The American Spectator magazine and training aspiring journalists who espouse traditional American values. Your contributions are tax deductible to the extent permitted by law. Each donor receives a year-end summary of their giving for tax purposes.

Copyright 2013, The American Spectator. All rights reserved.