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Another Perspective
Receiving a Calling
A young man is having some trouble with belief in God.
The phone rings the other night and it’s a young fellow on the other end. He is having some trouble with belief in God and he heard that I am the foremost authority in the world on the subject. After laughing myself silly, I could hardly resist giving him some of my time. Even with my brain shouting that this categorization is absurd, my ego held me back from denying it with the requisite firmness.
“I was brought up Jewish but I rejected that and became an atheist,” he begins. “This friend of mine is very positive about her religion and now I am beginning to wonder who is right.”
“Well, were your parents knowledgeable about religion?” I asked.
“No, not at all.”
“Did you attend religious school?”
“No.”
“So you never really rebelled against Judaism. You rebelled against your parents’ attempt to saddle you with a religion without an explanation.”
“I guess you’re right.”
“What it amounts to is that you need to get enough information about the claims of the religion so you can make an informed judgment. The problem is that it’s hard for you to find the time to essentially go back to college and study a new discipline.”
“You’re right. I’m 27 years old and running a successful business. But it would help if you can convince me why I should want to go back to college, as you put it.”
“Well, I start with the assumption that whatever the Biblical life system is it must be smart and its texts must be intellectually engaging. After all, the Jews were locked in their ghettos for centuries and limited to studying their own materials. As soon as the universities admitted them, they went straight to the top in a whole range of academic disciplines.”
“So therefore…?”
“Therefore intellectual curiosity makes a lot of people want to open those books. Once they do, many recognize their genius and invest a lot of energy in that study.”
“But why should I believe those books came from God?”
“A combination of reasons. Some people find the wisdom so powerful they are convinced of its Divine provenance. Then the fact that the entire Jewish nation testified to the world and protected the contents carefully. The fact that the Bible of a tiny nation was so compelling the other major religions accepted its truth as the basis for their systems. The fact that its major predictions have been fulfilled. The fact that its grasp of human nature is so on target.”
About the Author
Jay D. Homnick, commentator and humorist, is a frequent contributor to The American Spectator. He also writes for Human Events. Here he speaks at the Rally for Religious Freedom in Miami on June 8, 2012.
Letter to the Editor View all comments (83) | Leave a comment
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Appleby| 11.22.10 @ 6:56AM
I would just tell the average atheist that since all the materials necessary to create a three bedroom, two bath house with attached garage are contained in the large Home Depot down the street, to go and stand there and call me the minute such a house spontaneously appears.
ColoradoWest37| 11.22.10 @ 10:01AM
I laughed out loud at this example. I've never heard it before, but it sure gets the point across.
Alan Brooks| 11.22.10 @ 9:11PM
The God you personally worship drips blood from both fangs, a rightwing demon from the pit of Hell.
Hail the Satan you worship!
Alan Brooks| 11.22.10 @ 10:23PM
Worship Him down on both paws:
"commercialized Jesus, I will buy unto Ye.
What is the return, BTW?"
Dean from Ohio| 11.22.10 @ 10:26PM
The God you personally curse loves you and died on the cross between two thieves, both of whom deserved their punishment and both of whom cursed him as you do. But one turned back when he watched the way Jesus died, and saw that Jesus had something he needed. Which thief are you?
BTW, if scripture is wrong about God's love, it's probably wrong about Satan and hell too.
Doug| 11.22.10 @ 10:52PM
Alan,
Don't be so silly... Your reaction makes me think that you are (as an example) cursing the US Mint because there are so many forgeries.
Forgeries, and there are untold numbers of them, only serve to prove a) we know there is something real, a 'true' dollar bill b) We instinctively albeit not always correctly seek the 'true' dollar bill and c) We are rightly aggrieved at the notion that someone would spend so much time and effort of lies (the forgeries).
Focus on the notion that there is a real dollar bill (to use the metaphor again) and stop allowing the forgeries to steal your soul.
Darin| 11.22.10 @ 7:17AM
Read "The Case for Christ" and "The Case for Faith" by Lee Strobel. He's an investigate journalist who set out to prove Jesus didn't exist, the Bible was false, and so forth. He found he was wrong.
For those who say you can't prove God exists, I ask to prove the existance of thought. Use only measurable, scientific means. You can prove the RESULT of thought, but not the EXISTANCE of thought. Even if you show brain activity, there's no way to prove the activity you are viewing is thought. Therefore, thought does not exist.
Ryan| 11.22.10 @ 8:21AM
The Case for Christ is particularly good; I heartily recommend it as well.
Dobson's "Answers that Demand a Verdict" isn't bad, and it came from a similar background - a disbeliever looking for proofs against.
Mike| 11.22.10 @ 11:33AM
I think you mean Josh McDowell...."Evidence that demands a Verdict"
Ryan| 11.22.10 @ 12:45PM
Braingoof. Yeah, that's it.
vintax| 11.22.10 @ 7:19AM
The chance of MAN randomly appearing on the scene as a result of some cosmic exposion is the same as the Bible having been ramdonly created by an explosion at a printing plant.
Ken (Old Texican)| 11.22.10 @ 7:20AM
I have found that many many people have "found" God by simply asking Him to allow them to rejoin Him in fellowship, Creator to creature.
"Man's Search For Meaning" by Victor Frankl is a wonderful aid.
PJ| 11.22.10 @ 9:12AM
I have friends who have told me their conversion stories. All of them hit rock bottom, before they cried out for God's help.
Gene Hauber| 11.22.10 @ 9:57AM
Not necessarily so. I knew that I had to return to God, but kept putting off the commitment until one day He convinced me to get in on, so I did.
It was very easy and I am very happy with the decision. I had been happy before also, but I was lucky maybe.
I never came close to the bottom.
James Pawlak | 11.22.10 @ 10:28AM
As a Probation & Parole Agent and Social Worker I had to do with many alcoholics. The long-term "recovering alcoholics" often maintained that it ws necessary to "hit bottom" before recovery to sanity could begin. Parallels?
Doug| 11.22.10 @ 11:00PM
James,
Sure, for many including your truly, have to hit bottom. I also know of some, like Gene, where that was not necessary. I think each individual is unique in this sense.
In my case, after-the-fact I actually was specifically and darn near audibly was told that, "If I had not allowed that you would not have come to me." after specifically asking God why my mom died when she did. I don't base my faith on that instance, but it did resolve the issue for me.
A buddy of mine at church was(is) an alcoholic who needed to 'hit bottom' and our pastor became a believer as a direct result of a rational thoguht & investigative process.
Each is different. What's important is wha has happened. Hope. :)
Teflon93| 11.22.10 @ 7:34AM
The big missing piece is the existence of the Church, having endured some 2,000 years between Pentecost and today.
What other institution can claim so long a continuity, with the successors of the apostles still in place today?
Doug| 11.22.10 @ 11:06PM
Teflon93,
LOL, I'm not sure that's the best proof although it certainly demonstrates God' grace, patience and longsuffereing. :)
'The Church' has in so many ways been a miserable witness for Christ over the centuries. Having said tha it has also been the wellspring for so many wonderful institutions and good works that one would have to be IMO willfully blind to the existence of God. Hospitals, universities, orphanages, nursing, science (Ordered universe = enough power & self-aware thought & will do do it) and so many other good things. Honest examination will uncover in many of these areas that there was a Christian who felt compelled to do what they did.
William Wilberforce & the elimination of slavery in England is one example that comes to mind.
East Texas Rancher| 11.22.10 @ 7:46AM
It is called faith. Simple sentence but profound thought. I can never remember anything in my life but a burning desire to learn more of God, His word, and to communicate with Him in prayer. I have tasted His love, through His Son, Jesus, and I have seen the results of His faithfulness, even when I when I didn't deserve it, or wasn't faithful myself. .
Or, as my old Dad used to say before he passed, "I have been blessed more than any person ought to have a right to expect." His faithful love and His abundant grace have given me the hope that fuels my faith, to share with others. What a mighty God we love and what a mighty God is available to anyone who chooses to believe in Him and to come to Him through faith in His Son.
Thanksgiving Blessings,
From a grateful East Texas Rancher
Bev Gunn
John Hinds | 11.22.10 @ 9:34AM
Reason pertains to measurement. God can't be measured. That's why we have faith. Aristotle said that "knowledge is always knowledge of some "thing." Man is a thing, not the creator. The problem people have is they don't understand the difference in these categories, can't make the switch. Blaise Pascal put it, "The heart has its reasons which reason cannot know." We intuit "God", we don't "know" him. To even name him is error, an imposition of man as the metric for all that is. Didn't the ancient Jews recognize this by having unpronounceable names for the Deity, and a whole list of them too? The whole of creation is an Apotheosis.
Kevin in Appalachia| 11.22.10 @ 7:56AM
Want to solve the mysteries? Get out your Bible and study it, not read it. Don't listen to people with their opinions. An "opinion" is listed by Merriam Webster as "a : a view, judgment, or appraisal formed in the mind about a particular matter b : approval, esteem
2a : belief stronger than impression and less strong than positive knowledge ." An opinion is not truth, but a belief that you are correct. Jesus said in John 8: 31 So Jesus said to the Jews who had believed in him, "If you abide in my word, you are truly my disciples, 32 and you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free." There is a way to know the truth, otherwise Jesus is a liar. How do you find truth and not opinion? It had already been given to mankind in the form of the New Testament by the time of the writing of Galations 1. Gal. 1: 8 But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach to you a gospel contrary to the one we preached to you, let him be accursed. 9 As we have said before, so now I say again: If anyone is preaching to you a gospel contrary to the one you received, let him be accursed.
Anything contrary to these teachings is wrong. It's that simple.
Ryan| 11.22.10 @ 8:23AM
Specifically, two books here - John and Mark. Mark particularly reads like a good novel when you read it straight through (and is essentially Peter's narrative).
Career Soldier| 11.22.10 @ 7:59AM
Thank you for a well written account of your conversation. I found it thought provoking in it's earnest simplicity. I enjoyed it and will certainly repeat it at our Thanksgiving Feast.
PJ| 11.22.10 @ 9:03AM
Mr Homnick,
I believe your approach to proving the existence of God independent of the bible does work, esp on those persons who have not been properly reared in any religion.
Many non-believers assume their rational thinking is superior. They are taught this in the school system esp in college & esp in the elitist schools. One has to stroke their ego by using logic to attract this type of person to the idea of a Superior Being. ---- to peak their curiosity. Then slowly introduce the bible in a joyful manner. (Who wouldn't being attracted to the teaching of a happy person!)
We, believers believe that God works through us to coax the uninformed back home.
BTW I've used similar logic on 10 yr olds. A lot of them are starting to understand the relationship between reason and faith. They are excited with the idea that good science is God's language; it does not contradict the bible & their religious beliefs.
WayneFarmer| 11.22.10 @ 12:25PM
It is spelled "pique," not "peak."
clint| 11.22.10 @ 8:41PM
As a former English teacher, you may be right, but come on!!!
Doug| 11.22.10 @ 11:11PM
Clint,
So WayneFarmer's poke at PJ's poorly proffered peak piqued your psych?
:)
Sam| 11.23.10 @ 3:44PM
genius
P.Smith| 11.22.10 @ 10:10AM
Psalm 14:1
….The fool says in his heart, "There is no God." ….
KyMouse| 11.22.10 @ 10:15AM
Thanks for the nice article, Mr. Homnick, and have a very happy Thanksgiving.
Speaking of Jews locked in ghettos, I would be very interested to learn what TAS's Catholic commentors think about the fact that three blood libels against Jews are included in the Vatican International Exhibition "The Eucharistic Miracles of the World." You can read about it by typing in that complete phrase, or by visiting www.therealpresence.org.
The exhibit, which has been displayed in parishes in many countries over the past few years, comprises laminated posters that describe some 126 "Eucharistic miracles," complete with illustrations. Three of them -- in Paris (the year 1290), Brussels (1370) and Poznan, Poland (1399)-- claim that "scoundrels" sold Eucharistic wafers and tried to desecrate them by stabbing and other means, only to be thwarted when the wafers displayed their miraculous powers.
Whether or not the miracles really happened, there is no doubt that Jewish people truly suffered and died because of them. In the Paris story, the man identified as "Jonathas" had his belongings, his house and his life taken from him (by burning at the stake).
The web site for the cathedral of the Brussels story admits that there is no evidence that the wafer-desecration ever took place (and, therefore, no proof that Jews were guilty of anything). Yet that web site also admits that "some six Jews" were burned to death because of the accusation, and that the area's other Jews were forced into exile.
You can read the text of the posters for yourself. In doing so, I have found no indication that the Catholic Church regrets what was done to these "desecrators." The implication of these miracle stories is that the "thieves" got what they deserved. If there is any part of the exhibit that expresses repentance or remorse, please let me know what it says and where it is displayed. I'll happily stand corrected.
The Brussels cathedral's Web site admits that "the miracle offered a sought-after opportunity to dispose of the Jews."
These blood libels should be denounced by Catholics (along with the rest of us). Persecuting Jews never honors the King of the Jews.
KyMouse| 11.22.10 @ 10:23AM
In my third paragraph above, the word should be "stole," not "sold."
PJ| 11.22.10 @ 11:17AM
Here we go again!
The Catholic Church had, has, & will always have members who are imperfect, flesh & blood human beings. Sin lives & thrives in the Church.
Yes, the Church in the past & exp pre-Reformation have committed crimes against many innocent people. Either in 1999, or 2000, Pope John Paul II apologized profusely to the Jewish people, Muslims, Orthodox Christians, Indians, & many other groups of people for the crimes Catholic Church committed against them. If I remember correctly JP conducted many contrition prayer services during that time. And Pope Benedict is continuing this tradition. God forgives once for a particular sin, why can't you?
BTW, Professional historians know enough not to judge actions of prior time periods with today's moral standards. The killing of those desecrators who were truly guilty was an appropriate act at that time; capital punishment was used alot for crimes that we would today find appalling. (Up until the 1800s, England hung people for stealing bread.) The Eucharist for Catholics is even more important & precious than the Koran is for Muslims then & now. I hope you get an idea on how intense the desecration crimes were back then.
KyMouse| 11.22.10 @ 11:47AM
If the Catholic Church is contrite and repentant, why are these blood libels against Jews still being promoted and circulated this very day, including in this Vatican-approved exhibit?
If the Catholic Church wants to be forgiven for this "particular sin," shouldn't it stop committing it?
And which "desecrators" "were truly guilty"? Does "I hope you get an idea on how intense the desecration crimes were back then" mean that you really believe that Jews stole Eucharistic wafers in order to stab and boil them?
I'm not surprised that you want to shrug this off. Appalled, but not surprised.
Tim*| 11.22.10 @ 12:16PM
Well Kinky Moose, we think you sound like you're An Anti-Catholic Agendist,with an Ax To Grind against Catholics.
KyMouse| 11.22.10 @ 1:04PM
So, Tim, you've read these exhibit posters online (or in person) and see nothing wrong with the ones for Paris, Brussels and Poznan? Reasonable people should be able to agree to the following points:
1. Blood libels were used to persecute Jewish men, women and children, by rationalizing the theft of their property, the dissolution of their rights, and their murders.
2. These three exhibit posters use blood libels to encourage Catholics to increase their Eucharistic adoration.
3. If Eucharistic miracles are true, they do not need to use blood libels to prove it.
Too much to ask?
Tim*| 11.22.10 @ 1:21PM
Soooo, Kinky Moose tell us about your particular Religion & your particular Anti-Catholic Agenda.
Then, you can tell us what your Church is apologizing for.
Toooo much to ask ?
Hmmmmmm ?
You're up Kinky Moose !
Claudia Monteverdi| 11.22.10 @ 9:39PM
what a jerky response to an extremely well written and factually correct analysis by KyMouse--As a Catholic myself I do recognise the Mel Gibson variety and their disgraceful fellow travelers--
Disgusted by you,
Claudia
RCV| 11.23.10 @ 1:45PM
Tim is a regular anti-semitic contributor whose hackles are raised any time anyone says something nice about Judaiism or points out facts that don't place the Catholic Church (in which I was baptized and confirmed) in a stellar light. Forgive him, for he hath not the capacity to know what he does.
PJ| 11.22.10 @ 1:56PM
I think you need to reread my 2 postings. Nothing is shrugged off. I also think you need to read history from reputable sources & understand that no group, no culture, no religion is perfect as much as we wish they would be.
I have also read from website you cited. Not once did the word Jew or any word that would implicate a Jewish person, appear in reference to the 3 desecrations you cited, although I did see tiny pictures that may have shown men dressed in ancient Middle Eastern attire. (Muslims also dressed that way too.) If the desecrators were Jews, the narrative wisely had it left out. The objective of the exhibition is to show the miracles associated with the Eucharist not about the desecrators.
KyMouse| 11.23.10 @ 12:22PM
PJ, here is another thought about the fact that the Vatican exhibit is careful not to identify the "thieves" as Jews, even though historical accounts say that it was indeed Jews who were accused and murdered as a result of the accusations.
By using only terms such as "desecrators," "thieves" and "scoundrels," the exhibit refuses to acknowledge the religious and ethnic identities of the accused. They are dehumanized -- turned into two-dimensional props that are put in the background of these little miracle plays (rather like shepherds or villagers). They become merely the catalysts for the miracles, and cease to be real people who suffered and died. The stories are free, then, to be happy ones.
A question remains: Are the accused not indentified in the exhibit as Jews in order to protect their reputation, or to protect the reputation of the Catholicism?
Anthony| 11.22.10 @ 9:02PM
Do you have proof that these actions did not occur? Is it impossible that some members of the Jewish faith committed these acts, or are all Jews so pure that none could ever commit a crime? Is it a blood libel that certain Jews turned Christ over to Pilate to be crucified? No one has condemned all Jews for the acts of some, but it is interesting how some are always anxious to attack the Church.
KyMouse| 11.23.10 @ 9:41AM
Claudia seems to be the only Catholic commentor here who is thinking for herself about the blood libels in the Vatican exhibit. God bless you, Claudia!
PJ, the Vatican exhibit avoids stating that the "desecrators" who lost their property and their lives were Jews, but read any historical account of those events and you will see that that's who they were.
By the way, there was a Dominican in the Upper Rhine region during the early 1300s who is credited with writing a collection of 56 blood libels against Jews entitled "The Host and Libels Against the Jews" (1303). He went by the name of Rudolf von Schlettstadt. The stories tend to end with such comments as "he seized all the Jews he could find, and burned all of them to ashes." You can read several excerpts from his collection in "Medieval Popular Religion, 1000-1500," edited by John Shinners and published by Broadview Press.
PJ, even the Web site of the very church in Brussels in which the 1370 miracle is said to have occurred (the Cathedral of St. Michael and St. Gudula) admits that it was Jews who were accused and executed -- and it admits that there was no proof against them, or even that the desecration took place. See for yourself at www.cathedralestmichel.be/eng and click on "History and Architecture" then "The Miraculous Sacrament."
I wonder if the others are refusing to question the validity of the blood libels because they have been taught not to do so, or because they believe that the libels are true. I hope that someday they will summon the courage and the conscience to tell their Church leaders that those tales should have been denounced and discarded many centuries ago.
Claudia Monteverdi| 11.22.10 @ 9:35PM
KyMouse----an excellent recounting of the past evils of the church..I agree with you, it is overime to confess and receive penance
Thanks,
Claudia
Walkthetalk| 11.22.10 @ 10:23AM
A tree is known by its fruit. Even so, God is known by what he does. If you have to canvass all the gods you need to read the so-called holy books. What do those books ascribe to their gods? Only the Bible describes a God of life. Only the Bible reveals a God of love. Only the Bible shows a loving God of life reaching out in love to an errant people who have free-will and who have freely rejected their rightful place with God. The Bible gives an outline to life, describes the love affair he has with his people, describes what the savior will be like, describes what he will do to salvage the people (if they wish to be salvaged, remember, its free will), describes what it is like to be salvaged, and describes what it is like to remain un-salvaged. All this made known in the so-called Old Testament. After the “what and how”, the so-called New Testament reveals “who, what now and what next.” It is a complete revelation of God. In fact, the whole Bible is about God, with stories of how fallen (separated from God) humanity reacts to the overtures of a God that wants to return humanity to its rightful place - with him. Life is the theme of the Bible. Death is the product of self (willful rejection of God). This is also shown in the Bible. The Bible reveals that those who kill, abort, terrorize, murder, etc. to get to some man-created sensual heaven, or to achieve some utopian earthly nirvana, do it for and of themselves (revealing a self-focused orientation). This behavior is the result of a spirit separated from God (sin). In fact, the Bible (Old and New Testaments working together) reveals there are only two kinds of people in this world, those who are alive in Christ and those who are not. God makes a plea for free-will individuals to have life with him. The Bible describes only one way to life (exclusive entry), no climbing over a fence, no good deeds, no bribes, no excuses will gain one entry. The God of life offers life in Christ. There is no real life apart from him. Want proof? A tree is known by its fruit. People who have life in Christ do things that pertain to life. People who have not life in Christ do things that pertain to spiritual darkness (promote death, lie, cheat, steal, etc.). But don’t be confused by those who simply say they are Christian. Look at their fruit. Those who display love, and promote life are living testimony of the veracity of the Bible, the God of the Bible, and the love of God for us stiff-necked people. Don’t let your own fallen attitude trip you as you examine truth. Don’t let your so-called friends talk you out of reading the Bible. The Bible reveals truth and the God of truth. Look at the fruit. Seek to be part of it. For more information, see www.christforamericans.com Its free to read and you won’t even have to leave your own home to see that the God of the Bible exists and he loves you.
buckeyeman| 11.22.10 @ 11:30AM
Didn't anyone except me notice that this article promotes the notion that the bible proves the validity of the JEWISH faith?????????
I've got nothing in particular against Judaism but I do have something against irrationality and non-linear thinking. If Mr. Homnick really believed his own argument then he would be a Christian, wouldn't he?
Either that, or the above commentators would forsake their Savior for Judaism base on the power of Mr. Homnick's "logic". None of this makes any sense to me.
"Once you accept the Jews could not have made up the story of what happened at Sinai...." Well, okay, but I, for one, don't have any trouble at all believing that the Jews "made up" the story of what happened at Sinai. Does Mr. Homnick propose that the disciples simply "made up" what happened at Gesthemane or Golgotha? Mr. Homnick offers absolutely NOTHING to convince anyone that the events in the Old Testament happened as told.
Some pretty smart folks, like Glenn Beck and Harry Reid (ok, scratch Harry Reid) are Mormons. They believe an angel named Moroni delivered a pile of golden tablets to Joseph Smith Jr. in 1823 and helped him translate into English what is now known as the Book of Mormon. They also believe that the original, authentic, Garden of Eden was located in what is now Missouri. Remember when someone asked Mitt Romney on the campaign trail if he REALLY believed this??
The Mormons might argue just as earnestly that reading the Book of Mormon will "reveal" the truth contained therein. We could go on and on about every religion ever known to mankind (other than having an opera written about him, Zoroaster is soooo disrespected).
I flatter myself to think that I'm open minded, but really, you've got to do better that offering circular arguments to prove a conclusion. The basic fact is, YOU CANNOT ALL BE RIGHT. In fact, only One of your versions can be correct. All the rest are wrong. Please help me pick the one true correct version.
Jesus loves you| 11.22.10 @ 12:50PM
Buckeyeman, it seems you did not read the post by Walkthetalk. Maybe you were preparing your own post when it was posted. Read it. It will help you choose the correct version. Also yes, you are correct, all religions purport to be "the" one. But the major difference between religions is that all but Christianity focus on "self" and self-help. You must do something in those systems to merit heaven, pray, pay your alms tax, take a trip to Mecca, be good enough to enter the temple so you can turn into a god and get your own planet, sit in a corner and think away all your passions so you can become perfect - you know, like a cow. I say, read their books if you want to waste your time. The Bible truth is only hidden from those who have turned away from Jesus. If you want to know the truth, seek the God revealed by the Jews as recorded in the Bible. You can have life. 2 Chronicles 7:14
buckeyeman| 11.22.10 @ 10:29PM
I was out in the woods all day and it was glorious but causes me to post a couple of responses late. I am not an atheist but I do have a lot of unresolved questions.
I was raised and confirmed as a Lutheran so I am somewhat familiar with Christian doctrine. The tenet that one cannot be saved by good works but by faith alone is indeed a central theme of most Christian teaching, but how does that prove that Christianity is the one and only single valid religion?
If you read some of the other posts it's pretty clear that there is disagreement over what is the truth. Simply believing the others to be wrong is fine, but it isn't proof. But hey, thanks at least for not calling me a bloody fool.
tryingtoanswer Buckeyeman| 11.22.10 @ 1:58PM
Hi Buckeyeman,
I cannot speak for Mr. Homnick, obviously, but I can say that there are numerous reasons why one can believe in the Jewish Bible, aka "Old" Testament and not believe in the Christian Bible.
For example, God made an enternal promise to the Jewish people (and to the world) about His commandments in the Jewish Bible--why would He then go on to cancel out his promise? How can God's eternal promise be changed on the word of one man, Jesus, who told people to just accept him as the arbiter of God's word.
God also asked the Jews to accept his Bible in front of a couple million witnesses at Mt. Sinai. If this were false, surely SOMEONE in that generation would have said, "Hey this is a con." Or, at the very least, not pass the telling of this miracle down to subsequent generations. But no Jew (until the present) ever said that it was a fairy tale. They passed it down from generation to generation--not on the word of one or two people but on the direct experience of 600,000 men, and hundreds of thousands of women and children.
If you notice, every other religion is based on the word of a single man or that man and a small group of elites: Christianity-Jesus and the Apostles, Islam-Mohammed, Buddhism-Buddha, and Mormonism-Joseph Smith. The Jewish Bible, which should more aptly be called the Hebrew Bible since it contains moral guidance for non-Jews as well (without ANY committment to convert, by the way), is definitely the more Conservative approach-By the people, for the people, but with personal responsibility. God spoke to ALL the people, not just one man.
Also, based on really excrutiating mis-translations and deliberate miscalculations of the Hebrew Biblbe, others have called themselves messiah. But the Bible is clear: When the Lion lies down with the lamb, when the sword will be beaten into plowshares, and so forth. The Bible is also clear that the messiah will not be a god, but a mortal being. And so on.
Expel "The Ruling Class"!| 11.22.10 @ 3:12PM
Hi there. Not to argue, but if the New Testament, or Christian Bible is wrong & only the Old Testament speaks for GOD, how is the problem of sin handled? The GOD of The Bible is a holy GOD who abhors sin & will punish sin. Every human being is condemned under GOD's law, established in The Old Testament. Without the sacrifice of GOD's only son Jesus Christ as chronicled in The New Testament, GOD would spend eternity alone because all of humanity would be punished eternally for their sin. Jesus Christ paid the penalty in full for the sins of all mankind. In The Old Testament, the Jewish people performed blood sacrifices under GOD's command to pay for their sins. Are they still doing this today? GOD has told us all how to attain eternal life & forgiveness from Him & that is through belief & faith in His only son Jesus Christ being the Savior of the world who died for our sins out of a love too boundless to be comprehended by humans. To answer your question how can one man change an eternal promise made by GOD is easy. Jesus Christ IS GOD. The triune GOD can do whatever He chooses & GOD knew we, being imperfect human beings could not keep His commandments & lead a sin free life. Jesus Christ makes it possible for everyone to choose GOD, repent of their sins, be forgiven by GOD of those sins & be granted eternal life by GOD. As Christ himself said, "I am the way, the truth, & the life." There simply is no other way. GOD Himself, The New Testament & the life of Jesus Christ have made this notion very clear. Take care & GOD bless!
Ryan| 11.22.10 @ 3:27PM
Several items:
The promise wasn't cancelled - it was FULFILLED in Christ. God remained faithful to the Covenant He made with Abraham - a covenant that God promised He would keep both ends of. Christ became the Sacrifice - because God required the death of something pure to cover sin.
Your arguments hold about all the non-messiahs that appeared in the intertestamental period, however, unlike them, Jesus never promoted an earthly kingdom. He never promoted overthrowing the Romans, or building an army.
Christ's death and resurrection brought about the Promise made to Abraham, that he would have many offspring and that nations would be blessed through him.
Buckeyeman| 11.22.10 @ 10:57PM
trying, Thanks for the explanation. I am not unaware of the wisdom contained in the Bible's moral guidelines. But as you can see, there are others who sincerely disagree with you about which religion is the "true" religion.
You emphasize that other religions tend to be centered on the teachings of an individual (typical of messianic movements) but that doesn't prove the validity of Judaism.
My real problems is that I wasn't there. I wasn't at Sinai when the tablets were handed down, I wasn't there on Calvary when Jesus was crucified, and I wasn't there on Cumorah when Joseph Smith dug up the golden plates containing the Book of Mormon.
Sure, I wasn't present in ancient Rome or Gettysburg either but that's not really comparable insofar as no one is claiming eternal truth is at stake based on the details of Pickett's charge.
I do respect other people's faith, I just see a lot of circular reasoning.
claudia monteverdi| 11.22.10 @ 9:44PM
I see that Jay's magnificent article has awakened all of the schmucks..the bad and the ugly-----You bloody fool--Jay never said any of the things of which he is accused by you---But you slimey putz, if he had said that Jews invented the BAGEL it would hve agitated you--You bloody fool, please keep in mind that Jesus, Mary and joseph and all of the disiples were JEWS!
Claudia
Buckeyeman| 11.23.10 @ 12:05AM
Claudia,
From the way this forum is structured, it looks like I (Buckeyeman) am the one you are calling a schmuck, a bloody fool and a slimey putz. If that's the case, then I'm missing something.
" You bloody fool--Jay never said any of the things of which he is accused by you" Which things are those? My main observation was that many of those applauding Jay's article were clearly Christians, but that Jay was arguing the validity of Judaism, not Christianity.
Jay wrote: "In a way the Bible itself proves God. Once you accept the Jews could not have made up the story of what happened at Sinai, then you have to believe it was true revelation. Either that or a genius theatrical production which not only fooled a few million very sharp cookies in the audience, it also left behind a book of such superior literary quality that it still moves people to live nobly thousands of years later."
I enjoyed the article, it was heartfelt and well written and Jay sounds like a nice guy. My criticism of Jay was that his argument was circular. When I reread the above quote I can't see where I was wrong.
Jay accepts the Old Testament as true but apparently thinks the New Testament was "made up". Clearly lots of Christians don't think so.
Jay points to the millions of adherents of Judaism and the noble lives that they lead as proof of Judaism's validity as the one and true religion. But implicit in this belief is the necessary conclusion that adherents of all the other religions have indeed been "fooled" as he put it.
Adherents.com reports: 2.1 billion Christians, 1.5 billion Muslims, 900 million Hindus, 394 "Chinese traditional" (whatever that is), 376 Buddhists, 300 million primal-indigenous, 100 million African traditional, 23 million Sikhs, 19 million Juches (never even HEARD of that one), 15 million spiritists, and 14 million Jews (the list goes on but let's quit now). Many of these folks live noble lives based on their respective faiths but they still can't all be right. Somebody has been fooled but I don't think the truth is based on a head count.
I wasn't bashing Jews, if that's what you thought, I was just inviting someone to point out a reason to pick ONE of the many, many religions over all the others. My only consolation is that being called a schmuck, bloody fool, and slimey putz is better (I think) than the "effing moron" that someone called me last week.
Ted R.| 11.22.10 @ 12:50PM
Indeed, believers of each and every stripe cannot all be right. They CAN, however all be WRONG.
The cosmos is simply there, and that's all. It has no beginning, just as time can have no beginning (it is illogical to try and imagine a beginning of time). And, at least in our local area of the cosmos, the world is governed by an immanent logic which facilitates the emergence of complex forms from simple constituents. No God required.
God is an unnecessary hypothesis. And death is very real. Time to put away childish things, and live a life that's worthy of being remembered. That's all that remains of us, once we're gone.
Jesus loves you| 11.22.10 @ 1:17PM
Ted R. You sound like Stephen Hawking. That is not a compliment. Note that time only exists in a corruptible environment. You may have some limited empirical evidence of an eternal endless universe, or you may rely on theory. You may just have a hope your view is true. All of these can be the basis of a religion, because you believe your view to be the final solution. Your religion is as dark as a black hole. There is no hope in the Hawking religion, no reason, only laws. Even if you had half of the knowledge in the universe, you wouldn’t know that God was revealed in the other half. Try the other half. You will find light is better than darkness. Think outside the box. Seek something beyond the physical. Don’t limit yourself to this universe. God transcends it. Read the Bible.
Appleby| 11.22.10 @ 8:03PM
Of course time has a beginning. Time is a function of planetary rotation which was created by human beings to keep track of stuff; hence the irrelevance of the query *What time is it on the Moon?* There is no time on the Moon because nobody is there. When there are people there, the time they measure is the time that exists where they came from. Most of us also know that the farther from Earth you see, the farther back in time you go. But that does not mean that there is such an objective thing as Time; those who are looking are defining Time in terms of where they stand.
Schroedingers Cat, and the baseball umpire, can explain this in better detail than I can. And you dont need math. Or check out Bishop Berkely if you want a good workout: esse is percipi used to fascinate us before somebody invented twitter.
Ted R.| 11.22.10 @ 11:49PM
You are confusing the instruments we use to measure time, with time itself.
Again, it is illogical to say that time had a beginning; you can never identify an absolute origin, because you can ALWAYS ask, "and what caused the origin?" or "what came before the beginning?"
Berekely is no help for you, here. To believe his scheme is to believe in Solipsism. But Solipsism is a nihilistic worldview, and it has in general been discredited by philosophers.
The best argument for faith, was the one put forward by Tertullian: "I believe, because it is absurd."
Dave| 11.23.10 @ 12:02AM
I once thought as you do, but no more. To reassure myself in my non-faith, I read extensively in both evolutionary theory and cosmology. But the deeper I ventured, the more and more preposterous their claims became.
Both theories postulate a beginning, a point where something arose out of nothing - be it a "Big Bang" or "self replicating molecules joining together spontaneously to form a living cell."
Both theories require magic to sustain them. Cosmology has its undetectable and unobservable "Dark Energy" and "Dark Matter." Evolutionary theory requires something unobserved in nature - multiple positive events through mutation occurring simultaneously - unlikely as a single beneficial mutation appears to be extraordinarily rare as in yet to be observed in nature or a laboratory.
Both theories require faith to accept them. So also does religion, so where is the big difference?
My study of modern scientific thought led me to agree with Jay Homnick, " ... there is an intelligence planning the world. " On that, my faith is unshakable. The scientific literature establishes it beyond doubt.
Pure materialism is a shaky hypothesis.
Ted R.| 11.23.10 @ 8:40AM
I'm not saying that science has the Final Answer for why the world is as it is. I'm saying that it takes us as far out as we can go in providing a rational answer, before we start believing in magic.
Why lose our nerve, and merely try to answer one Mystery, with another? The blunt fact is that the universe is there, and that's all. Any attempts to further explain it by magical events just pushes the question back. We must be grown up, and take Mystery SERIOUSLY. Calling that Mystery "God" or "Allah" or "The Great Pumpkin" does not take us a step closer to truth.
Jesus loves you| 11.23.10 @ 2:39PM
Ted R. A problem with truth is that some people cannot or will not recognize it. How will you recognize truth? Does someone have to rise from the dead to declare it to you? What if you traveled to the edge of the universe? Would that help you? Would you believe it if an alien told you? Would you recognize it? How about if a Christian told you? When you set yourself up as the final arbiter of truth you may find that you cannot find truth, even if it came up and bit you, or loved you. You want to dismiss everything as magic because you really want to justify your own belief system. This is a tactic of the lost. The Bible provides a map, a treasure map just for the spiritually lost. It shows the way to life, not this life limited by time and space, but to one that transcends those bounds. Truth is beyond the edge of the universe. Hold your breath, here it comes, truth is in Christ. You would be amazed at the treasure waiting for you in Christ. Don’t dismiss this as foolish talk. Taste Him and see that he is good. You should read the post of Walkthetalk above for a valuable comment, and then read the Bible. Truth is waiting for you.
Ted R.| 11.23.10 @ 3:54PM
Alright then - because we disagree, I have set myself up as 'the final arbiter of truth.' - ? A bit convenient, isn't that?
By the best way of accounting that I know, the systematic, public use of reason is the most reliable way to truth. For me, the truth is most emphatically not all up to me.
The Bible is a very important work, for many reasons. There is some great moral wisdom to be found there (particularly in Job and Ecclesiastes). But there are also many morally reprehensible passages, as well. I have always found that the dogmatism and intolerance of Paul compared rather unfavorably with Jesus, for example.
Anyway, I'm still reading the Bible. But I do not find it compelling as the ultimate statement of what life is all about. The Tao Te Ching and the Bhagavad-Gita also contain deep moral insight; no less saintly a figure than Gandhi, said he thought the Gita more insightful than the New Testament. Maybe YOU should not be afraid to the explore the Truth that can be found in the work that Ghandhi esteemed so highly.
For my part, I place my trust in logic and science to get us closest as we can to the ultimate truth of things. To me, it IS foolish talk just to take someone else's word for it, when we can set out together on a journey to find out for ourselves.
fundamentalist| 11.22.10 @ 1:09PM
Good article. Thanks! In addition to the above mentioned books, I highly recommend Edward Feser's "The Last Superstition."
Patrick| 11.22.10 @ 2:22PM
I recently purchased that book. I look forward to reading it this winter.
james wilson| 11.22.10 @ 1:25PM
"After all, the Jews were locked in their ghettos for centuries and limited to studying their own materials. As soon as the universities admitted them, they went straight to the top in a whole range of academic disciplines."
Especially to one. And curiosity isn't one of it's virtues.
Logic and reason are the god's of man, and it writes itself in sterility. You can't solve algebra with arithmetic.
Patrick| 11.22.10 @ 2:37PM
...?
Logic and reason are hardly the gods of mankind, and I can safely say that they do not even rank as virtues for most. Oh sure, there's plenty of lip service, but seriously, look around you. For the most part, logic is used at best as a rationalization technique for irrational, emotive behavior. Seriously, look at a liberal.
And I challenge anyone to solve algebra without arithmetic. One builds upon the other.
Ken (Old Texican)| 11.22.10 @ 5:11PM
The Jews were commanded to "be a light unto the gentiles".
Jesus of Nazereth fulfilled that command.
We knowledgeable Christians consider ourselves adopted Jewish folk....heh, but without the damned rules from Leviticus.
Stormzeye| 11.22.10 @ 7:47PM
John Paul II called the Jews "our older brothers". A beautiful sentiment and one all Christians should espouse. Also, I would add that at the heart of Judaism is The Law. At the heart of Christianity is Love. At the heart of Islam is The Sword.
Herb Tarlek| 11.22.10 @ 8:52PM
I have studied the Bible at some length & have decided it cannot be the work of the true God due to its many internal inconsistencies. I cannot be a Christian due to the behavoir of Christians. Their behavoir disproves the Holy Spirit concept.
D. Singh| 11.23.10 @ 4:49AM
Sir
Herb Tarlek| 11.22.10 @ 8:52PM wrote:
‘I have studied the Bible at some length & have decided it cannot be the work of the true God due to its many internal inconsistencies. I cannot be a Christian due to the behavoir of Christians. Their behavoir disproves the Holy Spirit concept.’
Mr Herb you need to divide the two issues you mention from each other.
I have no doubt that the serious and sensitive thinker who approaches the Bible will conclude, at time, that there are inconsistencies. For example, one of the commandments states ‘Thou shalt not murder’ and in the New Testament Jesus says pray for your enemies.
At first sight to the reader who is only ready to drink milk and not sufficiently matured to eat meat the two injunctions appear to contradict each other. I have discovered there is no contradiction.
‘Thou shalt not murder’ does not mean that a State cannot execute a murderer; nor is it required to abolish its armed services. The State is established by God to ensure freedom, security and liberty. Of course a State can be oppressive by relinquishing its God given duties as under King George III and the Judaeo-Christian’s duty is to oppose it (George Washington).
It is true that the behaviour of Christians at times leaves much to be desired. We too have been given free-will. That introduces the possibility of serious error. We are called to forgive those who do us wrong. Vengeance belongs to the Lord.
If I punched you on the nose and regretted and asked Jesus to forgive me – I am convinced He would without consulting you the injured party.
How can a so-called just God do that? For it seems to offend against the principles of justice.
The answer is simple and profound: my fist connected with Jesus’s face before it hit yours.
That is why we pray ‘Forgive us our trespasses as we forgive those who have trespassed against us’.
Herb Tarlek| 11.23.10 @ 2:02PM
I appreciate the time you taken to respond to my post.
Claudia Monteverdi| 11.22.10 @ 9:52PM
Dear Jay,
Your masterful article is in a woird, "IMPORTANT"....It is great on at least half a dozen planes and dozens of finally nuanced points..So far as I can see, from reading your letters-perhaps a third of the folks understood what you were saying and good for them.The remaining two thirds seem to have been awakened by the very word "JEW"--that brought out he snarls and curses...interesting since in one of your most nuanced points, the mentionof the ordeal of the SINAI..you permit the reader to fill in the missing three words:
"THE TEN COMMANDMENTS"..alas, so few of them did.
Gorgeous Article Jay, BRAVISSIMO!
LOVE AND KISSES,
Claudia Monteverdi
Bill Sundling| 11.22.10 @ 10:12PM
Much of the Bible is eyewitness testimony about God and Jesus Christ. Moses talked to God. He wrote the first 5 books of the Bible. Most of the New Testament books were written within 30 years of the death and resurrection of Christ. They were written by eyewitnesses and those who talked to eyewitnesses. There's no doubt that Jesus rose from the dead. Therefore God exists.
collaps | 11.22.10 @ 10:20PM
I agree with the post
"A combination of reasons. Some people find the wisdom so powerful they are convinced of its Divine provenance. Then the fact that the entire Jewish nation testified to the world and protected the contents carefully. The fact that the Bible of a tiny nation was so compelling the other major religions accepted its truth as the basis for their systems. The fact that its major predictions have been fulfilled. The fact that its grasp of human nature is so on target."
Diehard| 11.22.10 @ 10:41PM
Oh come one guys, you all know the real truth regarding Jesus. Yeah, Jesus the love child, son of Pandera, born out of wedlock... Renegade and irreligious... Practitioner of witchcraft and master of manipulation... Died a miserable death, dragged from his grave and hasn't been seen since...
Heck, Joseph Smith led a more honorable life, but history is the objective judge of his claims; same for Jesus...
Jesus Loves You| 11.23.10 @ 9:47AM
Diehard, it seems that your battery is dead. The old tired arguments you give are the positions of taken by people who wish to justify themselves so they can continue on the path of death with confidence. You should plug into the grid if you want to have a good supply of power. This is an analogy that applies to anyone who trusts in themselves. Self is like a Diehard battery. Self struggles to maintain, but eventually the spark is gone. Plugging into the grid is like turning to Jesus (repenting) and plugging into the life in him. He gives you the Holy Spirit (life power), which is what some call being born again. Don’t just wail against the wind with windy arguments. Discard the self-effort and self-righteousness. REPENT! Then, like the rest of us, you will laugh at what you posted.
Moroni| 11.23.10 @ 3:04PM
Jesus LY, it seems that your battery is dead. The old tired arguments you give are the positions of taken by people who wish to justify themselves so they can continue on the path of death with confidence. You should plug into the grid if you want to have a good supply of power. This is an analogy that applies to anyone who trusts in themselves. Self is like a Jesus battery. Self struggles to maintain, but eventually the spark is gone. Plugging into the grid is like turning to Moroni (signing up) and plugging into the life in him. He gives you the Mormon Underwear (life power), which is what some call being born again. Don’t just wail against the wind with windy arguments. Discard the self-effort and self-righteousness. SIGN UP! Then, like the rest of us, you will laugh at what you posted...
Jesus Loves You| 11.24.10 @ 3:18PM
Moroni. Wow, you are so clever. It's great that God allows you this freedom. He gives everyone a choice, only one choice. You can accept him or reject him. It doesn't matter if you reject him with sarcasm, humility, or humor, your path is set by your choice. What you encounter on that path is because you chose to go that way. There is another path - it leads to life. When you stop laughing just remember that Jesus loves you.
Paul Freedman| 11.23.10 @ 3:48PM
"Two, there must be some result that intelligence looks to achieve. Three, it makes sense that man, as the only intelligent and creative creature, is tasked with accomplishing that purpose..." WTF? my cats Gayla and Gidget are highly intelligent. No doubt so are your favorite pooches. So are horses and dolphins, and for all we know, trees. Intelligence pervades the universe, ditto for HaShem's wisdom--what he needs to package the instruction manual in a book? That's the explanation for revelation? The book is His creation and He is within it.
launch x431 | 11.26.10 @ 12:14AM
Look what thinkin' fot themselves got The Democrats in the Midterms.led tube
Louis Vttion handbags | 12.9.10 @ 2:06AM
Nick - Fascinating post. The space-time postulate is absolutely fascinating, though I admit I'm no Einstein and find it hard to get my brain around the concepts. I don't take the 6 days account literally so don't feel the need to search for a way to reconcile it with what we have come to know from science.
On evolution, my readings convince me of the soundness of the concept. Though I reject utterly his atheism, Richard Dawkins' books on evolution as a process are utterly persuasive. They're worth a read.
There are many leading scientists who are believers on a rational basis. One of my favorite is a fellow named Francis Collins, who headed the Human Genome Project. He has written two wonderful books, The Mind of God and The Language of God. In the first, he marvels at how the human brain developed the abstract mathematical reasoning capacity, which really serves no purpose --- except to understand the mathematical way God constructed the universe.
I believe that as God's creation unfolds, He provides humans the capacity and the means to understand more profoundly the wonder of what He has created. He is the author of the evolutionary process that made us into the creatures we have become.
Adult toys | 7.4.11 @ 4:02AM
Q:what is the strongest muscle?
A:the tongue—it can raise a woman’s hips.
Q:what is the lightest muscle?
A:the penis—it can be raised by a tongue.