The American Spectator : Strange Bedfellows

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Strange Bedfellows

By Christopher Orlet on 11.18.10 @ 6:07AM

On the guilty pleasures of dating a liberal.

My more conservative friends are still amazed that I am engaged to an unabashed liberal. “Don’t you fight like cats and dogs?” they ask. Probably less than they do. Besides, it’s not like we spend all our time discussing deficit reduction. Trust me, we spend more time planning the week’s menu. My girlfriend has a saying that helps us manage conflict: “Do I want to be right or do I want to loved?” I, too, have a saying: “Yes, dear.”

I might never have believed such a relationship possible if not for the enduring example of Mary Matalin and James Carville (married eighteen years and counting). During the 1992 presidential campaign, Matalin was the political director for President George H.W. Bush, while Carville was Bill Clinton’s top strategist. “People look at us as if we’re opposites,” Matalin once said. “We’re actually very similar people. We’re both advocates. We’re both passionate. We both like a good, fair fight. My opposite is someone who doesn’t have a philosophy of life, someone who doesn’t get fired up about anything.”

Unlike Matalin and Carville, we have never been offered an Alka-Seltzer commercial, nor do we shy away from political discussions at home. We discuss, debate and argue (civilly) pretty much all the taboo subjects: party politics, religion, thermostat settings.

My fiancée hails from a very religious military family, so she is used to my family’s right-wing rants. I sometimes attend her union or social justice get-togethers — not as a participant, but as an amused observer looking for column ideas and free beer. She promises to behave if I ever take her to a Tea Party rally.

By and large, we want the same things; it’s just that our ways of getting there take us in different directions. At the political crossroads, she takes a hard left, whereas I plow over anything in my way. I’ll give you an example. We both believe in helping out our fellow man — whether he deserves it or not. I do so by holding tightly onto my wallet and encouraging self-reliance and personal responsibility. This, however, did not prevent me from driving all over North St. Louis helping her deliver Christmas gifts to the “100 Most Neediest Cases.” My father, a gruff old fogey, scoffed when he heard this, and said my liberal girlfriend had brainwashed me. But, a week later, my mother had him out delivering hot meals to the homeless for the St. Vincent de Paul Society. Ah, the touchy-feely things we do for love.

ONE OF THE benefits of being engaged to a lovely liberal lady is being introduced to her liberal friends, all of whom I regard as potential debate opponents. A lot of conservatives tend to isolate themselves from those on the left, or even those in the center, preferring to live their lives inside a vast echo chamber. They watch only FOX news, read only Glenn Beck’s books, and associate only with those of like mind. (The same applies equally to those on the left, of course.)

I can certainly understand this. Sociologists say we are most comfortable with people of our own race, religion, socio-economic and educational background. Outside that comfort zone, we feel uneasy. No doubt, the same goes for political beliefs. As for me, I like to get out of my comfort zone. Among conservatives, I find myself taking the position of devil’s advocate just to make things more interesting. Again, this often leads to accusations that I have been brainwashed by my fiancée.

I find this doubly insulting. First, there’s the implication that my opinions and convictions are not deeply held. Second, that it would be me — and not my fiancée — who would succumb to brainwashing. While I know countless men who have switched their religious denomination — even their religion — in the interest of marital harmony and family unity, I don’t know anyone who has switched political ideologies. (Party switchers, like Arlen Specter, who morphed from a Democrat to a Republican back to a Democrat, only change parties, not their political convictions.) It could be argued that men are more likely to forsake God and family than their political beliefs.

There is no moral here. I don’t mean to suggest that if the Carvilles or my fiancée and I can get along then Republicans and Democrats should be able to work together. True love, after all, is transcendent, while party politics is debasing. Happily, we’ve learned to disagree without being disagreeable. In Washington, that would make us sell-outs. Here, at home in the Midwest, we’ve managed to transcend all that.

About the Author

Christopher Orlet writes from St. Louis.

Letter to the Editor View all comments (60) | Leave a comment Leave a comment

DLB| 11.18.10 @ 6:32AM

Been there, done that. It got old fast.

Tomas| 11.18.10 @ 12:04PM

As a conservative (well, I'm more Libertarian), some of my best friends are liberals. They are wonderful people, trustworthy, very loving, and they care about me.

Many years ago, Rush Limbaugh told a story. He was attending a dinner function and the hosts seated him next to one of the most liberal commentators of the time. Rush pulled out his cigar, she pulled out hers, and for the rest of the evening they were best of friends.

The hosts were expecting fireworks, but they overlooked one of Rush's primary rules in life: politics are politics. They shouldn't get in the way of life. He has often said he would love to sit down and chat over a beer and some bar-b-cue with any liberal he meets.

I've tucked that thinking into my core beliefs. It's put me in difficult stead with my conservative friends, who find my assessment of some people unfathomable.

I recently worked with a musical theatre. The director - and most of the associates - are gay. I put this man firmly in the "good people" club - and trust me, it's very hard to become a member of that club.

I'd trust that man with my life.

RCV| 11.18.10 @ 12:38PM

Well said. While they were on the court together, Bill Douglas and William Rhenquist were the best of friends, though ideological counterparts. The same is true of Antonin Scalia and Ruth Ginsburg. Demonizing your political opposition in a Republic such as ours may be personally satisfying on one level, but you're missing out on the friendship (and in some cases, love) of some wonderful people.

Alan Brooks| 11.18.10 @ 1:16PM

Sick article.
So Carville & Matalin.

Alan Brooks| 11.18.10 @ 6:29PM

"some wonderful people."

BEAUTIFUL peeple.
Because peeple who love peeple are the luckiest peeple.

Alan Brooks| 11.18.10 @ 6:30PM

Mungies are de stwangist peeples.

Hank| 11.19.10 @ 12:35AM

Successful marriages require shared values, including political ones. Differences that seem trivial now will twke on huge dimensions down the road.

I'd bet my left eye that the authors fiancé, deep down, thinks she's going to change him and when he doesn't go all wobbly on her there's hoeing to he'll to pay.

Hank| 11.19.10 @ 12:37AM

Going the be he'll to pay. Dang iPad

Margie| 11.19.10 @ 2:45PM

Oh, dontcha know it.

scythe| 11.19.10 @ 2:02PM

Thanks for stating the obvious. As the years roll by and this boob's wife's opinions and beliefs take an even stronger stranglehold on America, I wonder how delighted and entertained he will be by the whole mess. Opposites may attract, but seldom do they cohere. As far as Matalin and McCarville are concerned, it works because he is the zealot and she is the dilettante. That was obvious years ago. Politics for her is a job, an income, and a past time. For him, it is a passion. As long as he is bringing in the megabucks and supports her lifestyle, who is she to complain. To loudly. All of us remember when we fell in love and all those cutesy pie personal quirks of the loved one started out being interesting and novel. The souring begins when the former object of your passions becomes a symbol of all things detestable. This guy is sleeping with the enemy. He just doesn't know it yet.

Appleby| 11.18.10 @ 7:36AM

Sooner or later you will come up to the point of *Choose ye this day whom you will serve* and there will be no wiggle room, no slide-by exit, no Voting Present.

You ought to give some thought to that day and what you will do when you confront something so important that, as Tevye said finally, *There is no other hand.*

Old Soldier| 11.18.10 @ 8:25AM

Been there too - Eventually the hypocrisy and intellectual emptiness of her thinking leads to a loss of respect. That's the beginning of the end.

WJ| 11.18.10 @ 1:09PM

Exactly. The lack of critical thinking is what got me.

Skippy| 11.19.10 @ 4:28PM

Isn't "critical thinking" just another way of saying "coming to the liberal's pre-chosen conclusion"?

NJ Mike| 11.18.10 @ 8:40AM

IMHO, the Matalin/Carville union proves that they are both in it for the money and have NO principals at all. Since they've been together, I take their every word with a shaker of salt, not a simple grain.

Ryan| 11.18.10 @ 8:52AM

There's an oft-told rumor that Carville is more of a political strategist for the left than and out-and-out liberal.

He's from Carville, Louisiana, for goodness' sake. Populist, yes, but they don't exactly breed hippies there.

KellyHopkinsville| 11.18.10 @ 8:58AM

I'd like to think the conservative/liberal romantic matchup possible, but based on personal experience I would say it's more likely to end up like the lyrics to Joe Satriani's song "The Phone Call."

Petronius| 11.18.10 @ 9:04AM

Been nice knowing you, PW'd.

Ace| 11.18.10 @ 9:08AM

Glad to see this works for someone. I could never fully trust someone who sees liberalism as a good thing.

MikeD| 11.18.10 @ 9:09AM

I'd be curious to see what will happen when the political differences encounter real life and death issues; like abortion or the death panels. I wonder how she'll react when her mother or grandmother is condemned to death by a bunch of faceless bureaucrats. Or what she'll think when the generic "Choice" terminology turns into a living, breathing baby that had the temerity to survive being sucked out of the womb and Obama gets his way and jams through some sort of bill forcing doctors to let it lay there and die.

And, don't tell me that's 'far out' and unfair. Remember when the evil Republicans tried to rein in Social Security. The Democrats said nothing about economics or fiscal responsibility; the Democrats started screaming that "Grandma was forced to eat dogfood by the horrible Republicans. At the end of the day, Conservatives base their positions on facts and analysis; Liberals on screaming emotion in complete disregard of facts.

Sooner or later we all have to back up our beliefs with actions. That's when it gets difficult to overlook what's important to each of us.

Mary Ann| 11.19.10 @ 4:42AM

Like MikeD, I wonder what the author will do when his liberal lover decides that the mass of cells in her womb needs to go bye-bye. Would "yes, dear" apply here, too? Of course he might find out after the fact because it IS her body, after all, and he needn't be informed until she deems it necesary, if at all. This is when the fun-filled debates over wine and cheese platters become very real and very terrifying. I stopped dating liberals when I realized that anyone who believes in the mass murder of innocents is someone I could never respect at any moment of the day. Liberal friends, I have a-plenty, by the way. But I don't have to respect them in the morning.

A Balrog of Morgoth| 11.18.10 @ 9:46AM

"Among conservatives, I find myself taking the position of devil's advocate just to make things more interesting. "

This is sort of asinine, actually.

dennis2j| 11.18.10 @ 10:12AM

It's far from asinine. If one can't play devil's advocate convincingly, then one probably doesn't understand the arguments or the underlying assumptions on either side of an issue. Which would one rather be--a rational human or merely a parrot?

Jed Skillman | 11.18.10 @ 9:59AM

At a certain point, somewhere just beyond college idealism, Liberalism involves the inability or unwillingness to perceive reality or accept the truth. This will affect other areas of your life together.

A word to the wise.

bob alou| 11.18.10 @ 10:12AM

Let us assume that you are beyond child-bearing years so the abortion issue is not on the table avoiding the argument of whether it is really a child or simply a choice.

Stammon| 11.18.10 @ 10:14AM

Congratulations on your upcoming nuptials. I too married a liberal. Very liberal. Her whole family is this way, but for two (out of 6) inlaws. Before the wedding I started to poke holes in the chinks of her armor. She loved me partially because I was a "deep" thinker. I only hope to be such. I tell long tales with the point at the end.
Well, after 20+ years of marriage (very happy for us both, still in love), she votes conservative. Why? Because I would simply talk about what we believed, and how the real world represents us. For example: I would point out that abortion is a sin against God, but that I would never allow the state to dictate what a woman would do with her body. That capital punishment is sometimes justified, but I do not want the state to have the power to kill it's citizens (I have gone backward on this one, after those cretins cut that baby from it's mother's womb, I wanted them killed).
In the end, four kids and a life later, she is still much more liberal than I, but we both voted for Palin, and that other guy.
We make each other think, but we love each other more than the argument.
Good luck, it will be a wonderful trip.

Margie| 11.19.10 @ 2:54PM

Lovely testimonial of true love!
We can only hope the author's future brings the same.
Somewhere in the hearts of the persons involved, I believe that they must desire the same basic things (values). If not, ultimately it can't work, unless one is willing to settle.

rainmaker1145| 11.18.10 @ 10:16AM

Sorry, I need responsible, mature adults in my life. I have two family members I am taking care of now and have no need for more emotionally-dependent, superficial leeches.

PJ| 11.18.10 @ 10:42AM

I, a conservative woman, use to have liberal female friends who I casually debated on various topics: politics, economics, education, religion, & family. At 1 point I realized these women were too touchy-feely w/no data to back up their idiotic positions. Although once in a while they did use "facts" that were obviously derived from the NY Times. Needless to say I eventually drifted away from their company & I'm a happier person for it.

BTW, being charitable has nothing to do with politics. Driving around to deliver Christmas gifts forces us to be in personal contact w/the needy; it puts a face on those who are suffering! I don't see any politics involved w/this action.

And you should also open your wallets as wide as possible to donate to those organizations who efficiently help the less fortunate. I recommend Food to the Poor.

Derek Leaberry| 11.18.10 @ 10:54AM

I must doubt the seriousness of a conservative who would marry someone with divergent morals and views. How can you love someone whose views and morals are repugnant to you? You can't unless your own views are inchoate.

Regarding Mary Matalin, it is easy to regard her alleged conservatism to be a bit of a con as she married a truly evil man in James Carville. Then again, Miss Matalin has never said that she was anything other than a loyal Republican functionary. Like most Bushies, Mary Matalin detests conservatives. Her marriage to a man who hates conservatives proves her own lack of conservative principles.

Margie| 11.19.10 @ 2:57PM

Spare me. Mary Matalin doesn't detest conservatives.
Maybe your definition of conservative.
I'm with her if that's the case.
That'd be what, "Paleo-con?"

Gr0w1er| 11.18.10 @ 11:03AM

BTDT II.

buckeyeman| 11.18.10 @ 11:18AM

"By and large, we want the same things" What "she" wants is to steal my property by force or the threat of force. Apparently you are OK with that. You should contemplate the difference between charitable giving which flows from personal moral beliefs and the oppressive evil of forced "charity" at the point of a bayonet.

The world is suffering a pandemic of cognitive dissonance the likes of which history has never seen. Apparently it is quite contagious.

Carlos| 11.18.10 @ 11:24AM

Don't do it, son.

Just this once, heed the Gods of the Copybook Headings.

There are plenty of nice conservative girls out there.

Sheila| 11.18.10 @ 11:42AM

You claim your convictions are deeply held, Mr. Orlet, yet you treat being unequally yoked as a lark, as though sharing your life with someone who views life and liberty in ways alien to your own is a mere tempest in a teacup. Honor and integrity and morality matter to me - I guess I'm old fashioned in that way - so when I grew up I became a conservative and married a conservative.

Seek| 11.18.10 @ 11:45AM

If a woman is a tigress in bed, I don't care if she's a Hapsburg Monarchist, a libertarian or a Communist -- I want to get to know her. That's evolution.

scythe| 11.19.10 @ 2:06PM

That get's old too. And so does she.

R Allen| 11.18.10 @ 11:46AM

She must be great in bed!

Hobbes| 11.18.10 @ 12:40PM

You must be...an idiot. Reading these vile, mean-spirited comments about a good lady makes me ashamed to be a conservative.

Le Cracquere| 11.18.10 @ 9:38PM

I don't know what to say to a man who regards Mr. Allen's comment as an insult.

Erik Hansen| 11.18.10 @ 12:08PM

I am in the same boat: in love with a childhood sweethart who is a liberal. First as a California school teacher she can hardly help herself and I don't blame her. The basic lib just wants clean air, kids learning their lessions in school, all that good stuff. The way they try to get there is the problem. So I get to articulate my side of the story. With my talking on one side and the abject failing of lib policy on the other she is slowly coming around. Best of luck to you.

james wilson| 11.18.10 @ 12:27PM

It's generally not an issue when a guy marries a commie-fascist, since we have fewer expectation for their political opinions than what we do for what we are really looking for. But the Matalin thing is really very unusual, because when a girl has the brains and character to become conservative, they usually can't respect liberal men to keep them around.

CalMark| 11.18.10 @ 12:40PM

Why does TAS continue publishing this writer's navel-gazing pablum?

Louis Jenkins| 11.18.10 @ 12:59PM

"Yes, dear."

Soon you'll be saying that to everything while you're holding the baby, doing the dishes, and ironing. It is far better to wed a totally ignorant woman than a liberal. It took three tries, but on the third one I married a lass ignorant enough not to care who was in the White House. And we've been happily joined for years.

PJ| 11.18.10 @ 1:11PM

What did you do? Rob her from the cradle?

RCV| 11.18.10 @ 1:40PM

Not surprised to learn that any woman with a brain couldn't put up with you. What you were looking for was a domestic servant, Louis, not a partner.

J.C.Eaton| 11.18.10 @ 1:00PM

Mr. Orlet puts on a happy face about his relationship so I'm not going to crap in his Easter basket. If he's making a lifelong commitment to a woman driven by the right motive[s]. that's nice. His affection for the Matalin-Carville liason is a bit baffeling though. He apparently sees virtue in the union and perhaps there is. But if so, it has nothing to do with Mr. Carville and his so-called philosophy of life. He's simply a mean little snit who would[and did] walk over weaker people to serve the human carbuncle he did in Bill Clinton. This was not the kind of service a political rehab historian might display, or even that a reasonably competent criminal defense lawyer might demonstrate[and Clinton has needed both]. No, Carville is the kind of ugly little troll who has no compunction about using the "drag a hundred dollar bill through a trailer court" defense and flattering his self-styled cleverness about it. Fair fight indeed. I sort of hope I'm wrong about this, but Mr. Orlet seems to be presently locked in the thrill of it all stage of courtship. He should consider the truth that the marital week usually has more monday mornings than saturday nights.

Negro X| 11.18.10 @ 5:00PM

Orlet,
Soon enough you'll be sitting down to urinate. " Planning the weekly menu"? wtf? You poor metrosexual fool. Caraville is a moron.

Debra Congram| 11.18.10 @ 5:42PM

Wouldn't work for me. A person's political viewpoint isn't something you take on and off like a winter coat. Politics reflect a person's value system, the core of his or her being and behavior. It's who they are. How do you love and respect someone whose preferred world view depends on the destruction of your own? -- Either Mr. Orlet is entering a loveless partnership similar to the Clinton's and Carville's or he is thinking with the lower half of his body.

Ted R. | 11.18.10 @ 7:15PM

I agree. I can't help but think, at a basic level, there is something that has gone wrong in the character-formation process of those who are on the other side from me ideologically. I find it difficult to imagine that a true conservative can be either very intelligent or good.

Still, there are enough of these kinds of partnerships to serve as evidence that they can work. My basic take on this, is that the parties in question are not motivated by ideology at a core level. For people that are so motivated - people that contribute to sites like these, for example - across-the-aisle liasons just could not last.

LarryK| 11.18.10 @ 11:02PM

Couldn't disagree more with Debra C or Ted R. I think real conservatives know that politics should be a very, very small part of life, definitely not a deal-breaker for friendships or even marriage. The left coined the phrase "the personal is political;" conservatives know there are many other things that matter more on a day to day basis. BTW, I married a basically non-political, lovely girl with a huge heart - which sometimes leads her to pull the wrong lever (from my perspective) in the voting booth, but what are you gonna do.

Reformed Trombonist | 11.18.10 @ 8:24PM

Conservative boys marry conservative girls. But they date liberal girls because they figure they're entitled to a little fun first.

chuck jim fox| 11.19.10 @ 1:02AM

Re having a politically compatible marriage. Stalin sent the very Red Mrs. Molotov to the Gulag for several years while Vyach M. stayed working loyally for Koba, instead of personally shooting the old monster. When Mrs. M. came back to the kremlin she was still a loyal Stalinist.

David| 11.19.10 @ 12:30PM

Opposites attract.

Besides Conservatives are the ultimate bad boys for Liberal Women. Thats been my experience.

And theres a certain amount of fringe benefits from dating a liberal women, that cannot be gone onto a public forum such as this.

Fran| 11.19.10 @ 2:50PM

I hope it works, but what are you going to do when you have kids and she wants to make them into little progressives? Believe me this will matter to you very much. Think very carefully about this woman. I know I could never marry someone who doesn't share my basic beliefs.

Ted R.| 11.19.10 @ 3:22PM

The difference between Libs and Cons, is that Cons think that you can, and that you should, "make" your children adopt cookie-cutter imitations of your own worldview.

MY basic beliefs include being able to think for yourself, and being able to defend your beliefs. You can't defend your own views, if you don't understand those of your opponent. As a Lib my goal is to make sure my kids come by their politics honestly - with ALL the information available in making the decision. That's how I was raised (by an arch-conservative). I'd rather have a child who was a thinking conservative (rare breed though that is) than a knee-jerk liberal (admittedly all-too common).

Adult toys | 7.4.11 @ 3:43AM

three drunk friends made a bet whoever can make their wives scream the longest during sex win 1000.next day when they met.
　　first guy:I made love to my wife 2.5hours and she screaming for 1.5hours;
　　second guy:I licked my wife for 2hours and she was screaming whole time and even 1/2hour after I was done;
　　third guy:that’s nothing,I made love to my wife 10mins and I came twice,wipe my dick on the curtain and my wife still screming at me up to now!

Jamison Rounds | 2.22.12 @ 11:45PM

Liked your article. Thought we might have something in common with what we are doing with One Step America: taking folks from opposing views, finding one thing we agree on, and doing it. Our ultimate goal is to restore politics to its real meaning: The Practical Art of Doing the Common Good. We are founded by a Republican and Democrat...working...umm...yes: Together. We have come to realize that there is so much to do in the world, that if we focus first on what we agree on...then by the time we get to what we really strongly disagree on...we discover (usually) that we don't disagree as much as we thought, or if we do, that we don't hate each other as much as we thought we ought to...The first step we have chosen is to move for a national constitutional amendment that says: "No Law Shall Embrace More than One Subject Which Shall Be Expressed In Its Title." This helps us shape a process where we don't have to agree on everything to get something done. After all, if we have to agree on everything, to accomplish anything, we will achieve nothing. The SD legislature had passed a supporting concurrent resolution with only one "no" vote. Would love your thoughts on the concept. Working nationally and on the state level...but it all starts, literally at home...with One Step...see www.onestepamerica.com for more info. Again, thanks in advance for your thoughts.

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