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The Nation's Pulse
Torments Ending in Tragedy
As our world becomes coarser.
“Forty-four percent of boys say they’ve seen sexual images of girls in their school, and about 15 percent of them are disseminating those images when they break up with the girls,” explained Internet security specialist Parry Aftab on NBC’s Today show.
The 15 percent is a guess, the ones we know about or the ones who admitted it. The actual number might be higher.
On July 3, 2008, Jessie Logan came home from the funeral of a boy who had committed suicide and killed herself.
Jessie’s mother found her hanging in a closet. She was 18, a high school senior — very pretty, intelligent and planning to attend the University of Cincinnati to study graphic design.
She made the mistake of “sexting” nude photos of herself to her boyfriend. When they broke up, he forwarded the photos to other girls in the school.
The girls who received the photos conducted a relentless campaign of harassment and bullying, calling Jessie a “whore,” etc., and throwing things at her. She spent a lot of time during her final year of high school hiding in stalls in the girls’ bathrooms.
Megan Meier, 13, also was found hanging in her bedroom closet. Her handsome friend on MySpace, “Josh Evans,” a boy she’d never met but flirted with online, had sent her some nasty messages. He said he heard she was “mean.” He wrote that “the world would be a better place” without her.
“Josh” never existed. He was a fake character created by a woman, 47, who lived four houses away, the mother of one of Megan’s former friends. It was a game for her, a way to inflict emotional distress with anonymity.
Megan’s father found her after rushing upstairs, shortly after seeing how upset she was after leaving her computer following a malicious exchange of e-mail banter. “I had this God-awful feeling and I ran up to her room and she had hung herself in the closet.”
Megan Meier died the next day, three weeks before her 14th birthday.
Wrote Megan to the fictitious “Josh” in one of their final e-mail exchanges, “You’re the kind of boy a girl would kill herself over.”
Last month, Seth Walsh, 13, hanged himself from a tree in his backyard in Tehachapi, Calif. He died after nine days on life support. “Friends said Seth was picked on for years because he was gay,” reported KGET-TV in Bakersfield.
Local police investigators, reporting that Seth was taunted on the day he hanged himself, said that no charges would be filed in the death of the bullied 13-year-old.
“Several of the kids we talked to broke down in tears,” said Police Chief Jeff Kermode, speaking of the students who were guilty of the harassment. “They never expected an outcome such as this.”
On Sept. 22, Rutgers student Tyler Clementi, 18, jumped to his death from the George Washington Bridge after his roommate secretly recorded and publicly broadcast a video of Clementi “making out with a dude.”
About the Author
Ralph R. Reiland is the B. Kenneth Simon professor of free enterprise and an associate professor of economics at Robert Morris University in Pittsburgh.
Letter to the Editor View all comments (107) | Leave a comment
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Skippy| 10.11.10 @ 6:23PM
If this had been one of my children, I fear there would be another family mourning the loss of theirs.
Philip Wylie was a few decades early when he christened and predicted the Generation of Vipers.
Now must we fear the children?
God save us from His wrath.
T Covington| 10.12.10 @ 9:09AM
Compassion?
Compassionate thoughts on AmSpec? Did R.R. Reiland hijack this blog? This piece is so out of character.
I've been browsing this site for a couple of months, and I am surprised that AmSpec would run a piece that seems to show a little compassion, a little sympathy to children who have been bullied because they are gay (a perfectly natural affectional condition that is condemned vociferously by AmSpec readers).
What is going on here? Somebody, please enlighten me. I am confused. I am flummoxed out of my mind.
Is R.R. Reiland making a plea for tolerance? Tolerance! Surely not! Does he know he's writing for the most intolerant blog on the web?
Did I misread, misinterpret his intent. Help, please.
Bill| 10.12.10 @ 9:52AM
Silly T Covington -- No, it's not the most intolerant blog on the web, and you know that. But produce one if its "intolerant" articles -- or several, since you say intolerance runs rampant here -- and I'll bet we will see that what you call intolerance is merely principled, and for good reason.
RAMIII| 10.12.10 @ 10:01AM
It would seem to me that you are displaying a bit of intolerance toward the intolerant.
Have you been bullied on this blog? Are you mature enough to know how to deal with it?
This article is a legitimate statement of concern over the disintigration of our society, especially with young people.
Have you asked yourself the question, Why, when "tolerance" has been preached for DECADES, is this still happening? Is it possible that there is evil in the world? Is it also possible that when a society denies its existence it becomes a slave to the very evil it claims doesn't exist?
Perhaps tolerance isn't enough, perhaps we need to actually love the people we disagree with, our "enemies", if you will.
Your feigned surprise shows cycnicism, not tolerance, nor love.
JeffW| 10.12.10 @ 11:00AM
"Does he know he's writing for the most intolerant blog on the web?"
You sir, have never visited KOS then. The people here may have spoken out against the homosexual agenda but never promoted bullying or violence. Unlike many of the left wing websites I have visited. This article addresses the cruelty of bullying and the tragic c0nsequences being seen. The fact that some of the examples listed were gay is irrelevant. The fact that they were bullied into despair and how far our culture has descended is the point. If you do not like this site then why visit and comment on it? Is it only to make yourself feel superior? That my friend is the same reason bullies do what they do. To make themselves feel superior.
T Covington| 10.12.10 @ 11:21AM
"The fact that some of the examples listed were gay is irrelevant."
Did you say, "irrelevant"?
The fact they were gay is extremely relevant.
When you read statistics of bullying, gay children are targeted more than others. Also, the suicide rate of gay teenagers is much higher than that of other groups.
But a new dawn is awakening. Gays will no longer be treated as second-class citizens, and they will no longer accept the hateful derision aimed at them.
Some of the finest minds and talents belong to gay men and women whose only "crime" has been to be affectionally attracted to members of their own sex.
As for the often brilliant and exceptionally- talented gay people I know personally, I have this to say to them:
You are Gods among insects.
Toto| 10.12.10 @ 11:23AM
Well said, T Covington.
JeffW| 10.12.10 @ 11:42AM
And you sir are a idiot. Yes, the fact the children in this story are gay is irrelevant. No child should be bullied this way, not just gay children, or do you only care about the gay child? I am in now way putting down gays. Served in the military with many a fine gay serviceman/woman and in fact have a gay Marine niece that I am exrtremly proud of. True I am sure gay children are picked on, so are short ones, ones with lisp, redheads, etc. etc. The point of the article is NO CHILD SHOULD BE BULLIED TO THIS POINT. Compasion should be for all children, not just the ones you prefer.
Anna K. from Emory U.| 10.12.10 @ 12:00PM
I am currently researching the serious problem of bullying, and I am pleased to see that the conservative press is expressing its concern, rather than ridiculing the attention the media has focussed on bullying and its tragic consequences.
I commend American Spectator for publishing Reiland's thoughtful meditation on the apparent epidemic of bullying that is occuring among our nation's young people. This is a social problem that really needs to be addressed by parents and education.
Ned| 10.12.10 @ 1:13PM
Why, exactly, did you expect that conservatives (in the press or otherwise) would ridicule intolerance? Are you perhaps intolerant?
RAMIII| 10.12.10 @ 12:48PM
T Covington, you are a bigot. Short and simple! You project yourself through your comments. You are also a hypocrite -- you judge the AMSPEC website for intolerance, yet you have revealed yourself to be an extreme version of it yourself. (e's.g. "But a new dawn is awakening. Gays will no longer be treated as second-class citizens, and they will no longer accept the hateful derision aimed at them." "You are Gods among insects.")
Second class citizens, you say? I don't think you know what you are talking about.
Jeremiah| 10.12.10 @ 12:57PM
No, Covington, you are just victim of the temporal provincialism that has so long afflicted you leftist rubes. You can't see people in anything other than the one-dimensional caricatures you make of them in your own narrow minds.
Perhaps your discomfort is caused by your first glimpse of why you are going to lose so badly: you all have come to actually believe your own vicious caricatures. It makes you incapable of understanding your opposition and, thus, incapable of defending against them.
ton| 10.12.10 @ 3:25PM
"children who have been bullied because they are gay (a perfectly natural affectional condition"
Perfectly natural? Really? In what universe? Did you miss that biology class? Do you know where kids come from?
There are no "gay" children; there are only vulnerable youth who have been shamelessly confused and cynically labeled by a hper-sexualized and perverse adult culture that seeks to destory innocence and corrupt childhood for its own purposes.
It were better for those corrupters and abusers that they be thrown into the sea with millstones around their necks.
88 Kate| 10.12.10 @ 4:02PM
Obviously, you know little of human sexuality.
Children know at a very young age their "sexual and affectual" orientation. Ask any same-sex-attraction person, and they will tell you this is the case.
My daughter told me she was gay when she was 12 years old. I was alarmed because I knew she would have a difficult time of it growing up as a member of a despised sexual minority.
However, she is now in her twenties, successful and happy, and her partner is a lovely woman her age. I am so thankful she was able to find a soul partner.
There must be countless readers of AmSpec who have gay brothers, sisters, or children. More need to speak out in support of them.
Alan Brooks| 10.12.10 @ 10:48PM
that AmSpec would run a piece that seems to show a little compassion, a little sympathy to children who have been bullied because they are gay (a perfectly natural affectional condition that is condemned vociferously by AmSpec readers)."
AS are rightwing, not genuine conservatives-- otherwise they would lose too many knuckledraggers who vote.
Margie| 10.13.10 @ 2:39AM
What is a genuine conservative to you, Alan? I'd like to know.
Ken (Old Texican)| 10.11.10 @ 6:44PM
Ralph,
Heartbreaking stories...............but!
We all got harassed in school for somethingorother.
Two things:
One, every kid needs to go through the "outdoor survival" hike things to build some EARNED self esteem.
We got a generation of wimps on our hands. You can't skin a rabbit with a cell-phone.
Two, there are a LOT of nasty kids coming up with no parents worthy of the name.
In my day, when confronted by a bully, one could take an ass whipping, but if you got in a few good licks...or kicks...or bites...the bully didn't screw with you or your friends anymore. I personally enjoyed biting their ears off.
I had had polio, so was kinda skinny and weak for middle school years. I was a target....heh...with a 180 IQ and a smart mouth.
I got three ears....and no more bullys.
In highschool, I moved back into the mainstream by excelling in baseball...
(Left handed knuckle-baller that could not be hit).
Then I had to go into the batter's box KNOWING that they were going to throw at my head. (scared to death until an old man taught me how to duck properly.)
After that, I actually had a batting average. (Grin)
Uh...there is some wisdom in the above somewhere.
Madge| 10.12.10 @ 9:12AM
blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah,
it's all about Ken (Old Texican)
it's all about Ken (the Talkin' Mule)
Ken (Old Texican)| 10.12.10 @ 9:47AM
Madge,
I'm sorry you feel that way.
I've made a bunch of friends here over the years, and I thought they might get a giggle remembering tough times in jr. high and high school.
You know, Madge, if you or anyone else here spent three months sixteen hour days writing a book, I would buy it. (Well, unless it was Alan of course)
And truly, it is not "about me" at all. It is about sharing my thoughts with friends at this point. In turn, I learn a heck of a lot from the conversationalists here.
I have written a rip-roaring fiction that begins a week after the November elections.
I hope you will check out the foreword.
www.texassaidno.com
Madge| 10.12.10 @ 10:31AM
And the publisher is . . . (?)
You published it yourself, didn't you? You're so vain.
Margie| 10.12.10 @ 11:36AM
Ken & all:
Uh, this scumbag Troll has posted before and it isn't me. (In case anybody's interested). I believe it's all the same person, many monikers.
I consider Ken a friend and he graciously "lent" me a copy of his book which I consider an honor. There are lots of trolls posting using my name. Know that Madge is not me.
God bless.
Madge| 10.12.10 @ 11:48AM
Margie,
If you are hyperventilating over my poof of a post, try putting a paper bag over your head. I hear that works for those who are prone to panic attacks, as you seem to be.
And, as anyone can see, my name is spelled M.A.D.G.E , and your name is spelled M.A.R.G.I.E.
Relax, Margie. Stop being so anal retentive.
JeffW| 10.12.10 @ 12:04PM
Are you Vtwins sister?
Ned| 10.12.10 @ 1:17PM
Jeff - nah, that's vtwin in drag... you can tell by the hairy legs and varicose veins...
Ken (Old Texican)| 10.12.10 @ 4:09PM
Hi Madge.
Of course I published it myself, silly. I own a publishing company. Why should I let another company have all the fun...and $$$$$
Jot down my publishing company e-mail address.
If you or any others here come up with a saleable manuscript, I would be honored to read it and try to market it with you.
kbjudgeroybean06@gmail.com
Madge| 10.12.10 @ 7:19PM
You own the company. That's why the book got published.
I shan't be buying it.
Ken (Old Texican)| 10.12.10 @ 8:09PM
OK , Madge
Admit it. You don't have ten dollars.
OK, one question: If you couldn't access pure water to drink...and you didn't have fuel to boil your water...how would you purify it?
If you read the novel you would know. Is that worth ten dollars?
Occam's Tool| 10.12.10 @ 8:13PM
Yep, old Texican is a genius who has written a brilliant book on baseball that can be found on Amazon.com. He's also a wonderful American, unlike Madge.
Happy to look at the book, Tex.
Alan Brooks| 10.12.10 @ 10:50PM
"Madge,
I'm sorry you feel that way."
NOW look who is being ingratiating: the Yellow Razz of Texas.
John Navratil| 10.12.10 @ 11:08AM
Ken,
I'm glad that worked for you. I had a similar experience except my British mother didn't understand boys in the 50's and 60's in the Deep South and INSISTED that I NEVER fight. The consequence was inevitable and when, after years of bullying, I finally exploded, it was bloody (lips, nose, eyes, ears and everything else I could pound into mush).
While I share your overall view that children should be made of sterner stuff, bullying is an assault and should be treated as such.
There is something to being "just boys", but when the line is crossed it should be dealt with swiftly and surely. Sometimes that "just being boys" behaviour will get an older person arrested.
Quartermaster| 10.11.10 @ 8:03PM
While I had to put up with some teasing, needling and ridicule (was late in getting my growth and a bit of a klutz when it finally started), school staffs would scotch bullying when it was first caught. There is no excuse for bullying at school.
The 47 yo woman should be in jail, at a minimum. Preferably on death row.
Yeah, we've got a bunch of vipers in our schools. Alas, many of them are on staff and faculty.
Vern Crisler| 10.11.10 @ 8:20PM
This kind of bullying only happens in schools that have lax discipline. When I was going through school, it was mainly "minority" kids (thugs really) who did most of the bullying. Because they are allowed to get away with it, everybody else starts doing it, including parents.
I'm afraid, however, that all this reporting on the gay suicide is not because reporters care about the individual in question. It's just another way to continue the agenda of legitimizing gay behavior, and marginalize those who consider it a fearsome sin (an abomination).
So successful have the gay-rights crowd been (with their media allies), that a politician cannot even fawn over gays and complain about brainwashing children with the gay agenda at the same time. No criticism of the gay agenda is ever permitted. Even being against gay marriage is enough to be marginalized.
So, in reality there's more than one type of suicide goin on here. Don't expect the media to report about that.....
John Navratil| 10.12.10 @ 11:09AM
Seems everyone would like a bit of that "accredited victim status".
joli| 10.12.10 @ 12:56PM
Vern, thank you for saying what I was thinking.
Has anyone else noticed whacko time stamps on these posts? The article says it was posted at 6:06 am today (Tuesday), but Vern's response is time stamped at 8:20 last night. I'm feeling behind the times... again.
michigander_sandusky| 10.12.10 @ 7:56AM
These suicides are indeed a tragedy. However, isn't it even a greater tragedy that the parental involvement in these deceased children's lives seems lacking at best or nonexistent at worse?!
Margie| 10.12.10 @ 12:36PM
THAT is the BINGO comment. If the parents were involved in their children's lives, it wouldn't continue. Read Ken's post. Heh, if they'd all show up with a shotgun the bullies would scatter.
Years later after thinking back on my own "experience", I wondered why the school teachers never got involved over the boy who used to beat me up violently walking home after school. They didn't care, They didn't take it seriously. My parents I remember called the school about it. What happened? One day a teacher physically held the little punk back to give me a "head start". I ran and ran but he still caught up with me. I remember the teacher's face. He was smirking as he was holding the boy back telling me to run.
Perverse teachers and parents who don't get involved enough are to blame, indeed.
Madge| 10.12.10 @ 2:42PM
But Margie, you use bullying tactics yourself.
Earlier today, you called me a "scumbag" on this very thread.
Scumbag. Now this is not a very kind expression, is it?
Margie| 10.12.10 @ 2:48PM
Oops, I took you on for your attempted bullying of Ken. Heh. Lord knows he doesn't need me in his corner, Troll. Now git along little doggie!
Margie| 10.12.10 @ 6:52PM
I like callin' people Scumbags .
I guess it's just The Apocalyptic Crank Psychopath in Me .
Wooo Hoooo !
Occam's Tool| 10.12.10 @ 8:14PM
That's right, Madge, you are not a "scumbag," you are a Liberal. Much lower.
Tim*| 10.12.10 @ 11:41PM
Aaand You're A Sorry Ass Excuse For A Psychiatrist . Ya Jerk .
Obviously , one more self-help Boy , scamming his sucker patients .
Dener Todd| 10.12.10 @ 9:00AM
Nothing can replace a strong, healthy, intact family with an emotionally and relationally available father to protect a child. Second protection would be reducing the influence of electronics in the child's life.
joli| 10.12.10 @ 1:00PM
Point 1) not going to happen in this house. You can't make a man be emotionally and relationally available if he doesn't want to be. Point 2) done. 3rd protection: martial arts. Given Point 1 above, that's the route I have chosen for my short, skinny 7-y-o. He'd better not be a bully himself, but if he comes across one, he'll be able to take the dude down.
Margie| 10.12.10 @ 1:14PM
Good on ya, joli.
Best wishes to you with your son.
Margie| 10.12.10 @ 1:12PM
Amen and Amen to your first sentence in that post, Denver Todd. From your lips to God's Holy ears.
Not a bad second point either.
PJ| 10.12.10 @ 9:14AM
The bullies of yesteryear generally were social deviants. They bullied by themselves or worked in pairs. We all knew the bullies had problems. Most of us put up with it(for girls it generally was verbal) & walked away or a few tried to defend themselves.---- Some were successful; others were not so. The bullying was short lived & life moved on.
Unfortunately today, bullying can follow you via the electronics: Facebook, cell phones, etc..., it doesn't stay in the school yard anymore. It is capable of following you 24/7.
While I agree w/a prior poster that a good physical fight w/the bully might end the torment, it probably won't work today.
Why? To name a few reasons: The recipient of the bully's interests who tries to defend himself, will also get in trouble with school officials; they are told to go to the teacher to solve the problem instead of dealing with the issue themselves. Someone's bound to get sued, probably the one defending himself.
As I mentioned before it never stops; the internet has a way of keeping it going. What's not mentioned in the article is how many months or even years each recipient had to endure before suicide? The Rutgers student might be an exception.
But related to the Rutgers incident, do today's bullies look at their tormenting as some sort of trophy to publicize for everyone to see? If that's the case, it's just another form of narcissism that's endemic throughout society.
Louis Jenkins| 10.12.10 @ 9:15AM
I suppose that kids are all tied up with the electronic network, but as Ken says you can't skin a rabbit with a cell phone. Truly you cannot. If they were less concerned about the electronic image they cast, and more concerned about being a good, honest person, there would be fewer incidents as named. No one can define the individual if you will not let them. Get off the tweeter and e-mail, life is too short.
joli| 10.12.10 @ 1:05PM
I'm wondering why parents allow their kids to have texting and photo phones anyway. Does it really add any value to their life, or is it just to look cool? I'm teaching my kids to live without "cool". Instead, I'm trying to teach them to live with "good", "honorable", "strong", etc.
Texas Mom 2010| 10.12.10 @ 9:20AM
Teens are especially vulnerable because they live in the moment and have difficulty with the theory that "this too will pass".
Since the 70s, discipline in schools has slipped further away from the teachers (the guards) to the kids (inmates) who know "their rights". The tort system has been used to liberalize the public school system to the point where the inmates control the schools.
I think the only solution is to bring discipline back into the schools by allowing the schools to expel students who are discipline problems. Also those who are not participating in their education. Make them earn their way back to their "free" education. If education was no longer a right but a privilege, maybe the teachers could get respect back into our schools.
We could therefore stop bullying and at the same time stop graduating kids who cannot read, write or construct a coherent sentence.
As it is now, we are simply warehousing students all forced into schools with no responsibility on the students or their parents.
joli| 10.12.10 @ 1:08PM
The problem is, it's not a "free" education. The ones who are refusing to expel students, are exactly the ones who are getting paid per body, per day in their school--in other words, all public school educators. Expel a student, lose $$. Follow the money.
Ken (Old Texican)| 10.12.10 @ 9:50AM
Texas Mom,
Well spoken.
I just don't quite know how we do it though....
John Navratil| 10.12.10 @ 11:12AM
Ken, Texas Mom 2010,
David Warren wrote a column on the topic a couple of weeks ago entitled "Back to Schools". You might find the read interesting.
http://www.davidwarrenonline.com/index.php?id=1191
Ken (Old Texican)| 10.12.10 @ 8:12PM
Thanks John
Steve A| 10.12.10 @ 10:23AM
I remember back when I was in 8th grade, we had a phys ed. teacher who had done some boxing. Whenever 2 kids would get into it a bit, he would offer them the opportunity to strap on the gloves & head gear & have it out. This would generally result in a mutual respect for the combatants & they often became friends after. Of course, this could never happen now as the world is overpopulated by limp wristed liberals with plaintiff attorney backup.
NavyBrat | 10.12.10 @ 11:12AM
I graduated high school in 1997 & I too, had a teacher like that. He was a good ole boy from Arkansas & a former Ranger. He did the exact same thing you mentioned. Nowadays, a teacher who does that would go to jail. How sad.
The fact remains that EVERYONE gets picked on in school. I'm not a big guy. I'm 5'4 now, I was shorter in HS. I was only ever picked on one time, when I was even younger in middle school. I got jumped on the way home from the bus stop by the neighborhood bully. I came home crying to my Mom. I remember like it was yesterday, she told me, "are you gonna stand here & cry about it, or are you gonna go get your dignity back?" Out the door I went, down to said bully's house. He was outside, I ran up to him & beat the living shat outta him until his Mom came out & broke it up.
I was never messed with again, from that time, until I graduated. I never backed down from a challenge, but nothing ever came to blows. Its all about precedents. If you establish a precedent that you're a pushover, then you'll get treated as such. If you do the opposite, then people would, more than likely, leave you alone
Ned the Red| 10.12.10 @ 10:54AM
My first wife left our family when our kids were in school. You know, four hungry children and a crop in the field. One daughter was in elementary, the sixth grade.
We live in a small town so everyone knew the situation and more details about my ex-wife than I care to remember.
My daughter is very petite and also very pretty, but I had raised her to be tough as nails. One day at dinner she told me about a boy who would tease her everyday about her mother leaving our family. This hurt her and I could see the pain in her eyes.
I fell back on my Marine Corp training and told her the next time he started his crap she should get in his face and calmly inform him that if he didn't stop she would rip his head off and shit down his windpipe. I also told her if she got in any trouble to have the school give me a call and I would back her up.
The next day she came home happy as a skunk eating shit. She had taken my advice and when she told the boy her intentions, while several others were within hearing distance, he shut up, turned kind of pale, and walked away. He never bothered her again.
She is twenty eight now, married with three beautiful daughters, and still loves to tell the story of how her Dad told her to handle the bully. Older now, it causes me to wince when I am reminded that I told a young girl to say those words, but I'll take that mild discomfort any day over finding a child hanging in a closet.
NavyBrat | 10.12.10 @ 11:14AM
You sound a lot like MY Dad used to. Your daughter is lucky to have a father like you.
JeffW| 10.12.10 @ 11:09AM
Ned,
Good for you!! I told my oldest boy something very similar. After telling him to make sure he cover's his butt by telling his teachers first, then when it continues he was to give the bully one warning to stop. Nothing else, then when the bully does it again, don't say another word, just punch him in the nose and prepare to defend himself. He was nervous but I explained to him that once you get hit in the nose, your eyes water and it is hard to focus. He would have the advantage. 2 days later he came home with a red cheek and a huge grin. He followed my advice and said the kid swung back but it didn't even hurt. He managed another punch to his nose (I told him to keep popping that nose every chance he got if the fight continued) and the bully gave up. 2 years later and they are now friends. Go figure.
More of our boys should be taught to stand up for themselves and others if they see bullying.
Redstateboy| 10.12.10 @ 11:18AM
My God... I know I'm going to be regarded as cruel and callous.. but Lord!! Bullying?!!!? You should've gone to My School(s) It was a constant pecking order - Race - you name it. People were Shot! Teenages are generally shallow by nature but .. and I know, I know.. make it political.. but we've raised through touchy-feely Liber-ulism.. such Generations of linghini-spined, limp-wristed Hedonists..! As Rev. Wright so... infamously stated.. the Chickens.... have come home... to Roost.
Seek| 10.12.10 @ 11:24AM
Sucker punching a bully only makes a victim into a victimizer. We have laws (hey, remember them?) to ensure the guilty will be punished, but without pushing society into a classic Hobbesian nightmare. Bullies are ugly, but terrorizing the bully (assuming the bully really is one) accomplishes nothing. It's just never-ending war in microcosm.
If you want to end bullying, challenge the bully verbally to a one-on-one-duel -- or perhaps a game of "the dozens" (the origins of rap). Sucker punching is for cowards.
Ken (Old Texican)| 10.12.10 @ 11:32AM
Seek,
Obviously you kept the old low profile in school and ducked the bullies.
Those of us who kept them under control paid the price for your freedom ,if any..... there.
My son was targeted merely because he finished his school tests quickly. Three of them jumped him at one time, and with a little luck and a lot of pluck, he wiped the floor with them...
but...then they got a couple of carloads of gang members together and came after him with guns as he exited the school bus.
War over. I was there with my trusty 12 guage.
Wimps like you just encourage the jerks.
Margie| 10.12.10 @ 11:44AM
Ken,
I sure wish I was a bigger girl when I got bullied in elementary school, I would've beat the crud out of the boy that used to actually beat me up. I don't know why he used to do it and he must have had issues with his own parents or something but every day he used to chase me as I was walking home from school and literally knock me down and beat on me. I was the tiniest girl in the school and so you want to talk about targets, heh.
But God lovingly gave me a friend who was just a little bit bigger than me (and we recently reconnected again after decades gone by), and because of her support the rest of my school days were AOK. But man do I wish I had the ability to kill the SOB. I surely would have! I fought back you better believe it, but he used to hurt me good. I cannot remember how or why it all ended though. Wish I could.
You are right on the money.
Bullys suck. And in case you haven't noticed, I still don't back down from them. Heh.
Seek| 10.12.10 @ 1:31PM
How is it "wimpy" to challenge a bully face to face, as opposed to commit an act of criminal assault against him? The main point of law is to make sure that the most controlling, violent and predatory personalities don't get their way, but instead are kept in awe by greater force whose rules of application are known in advance.
I'll take a good tough cop any day. Support your local police.
Margie| 10.12.10 @ 1:45PM
LOL Support your local police.. when they get there.
NavyBrat | 10.12.10 @ 3:41PM
Yeah, just tell the guy who broke into your house that he needs to wait for the cops. Fools like Seek wind up being statistics. How bout instead of "support your local police," we switch that phrase to "better judged by 12 than carried by six."
Margie| 10.12.10 @ 4:32PM
Sounds good to me. Thank God for the wisdom of the Founding Fathers, blessed by God and moved by His Spirit to give us the Constitution which includes the right to bear arms. Though the Leftists and Anarchists want to destroy this republic I just want to see them try.
Not on my watch, baby!
Madge| 10.12.10 @ 5:35PM
Margie, the threatening tone of your comment is alarming--"Not on my watch, baby!".
You don't carry a gun do you? A handgun? In your handbag?
In my opinion, your mental condition is a little too fragile to be trusted with firearms.
I do wish you would turn over your gun to the apprpriate authorities.
You and your safety and the safety of those who "get in your way" will be in my prayers.
Margie| 10.12.10 @ 5:43PM
It's the Multiple Personality Million Moniker Troll! Wooohooo!
Margie | 10.12.10 @ 6:02PM
Wooohooo I'm high on Thorazine .
Madge| 10.12.10 @ 6:05PM
Attention all:
Margie is yelling "Wooohooo!" to the top of her lungs.
She has been on this link all day long--ALL DAY LONG--posting her confused rants.
I pity her, for I truly believe she is a woman on the verge of a breakdown.
Obsessed and Unhinged! That's what she is, poor thing. I will pray for her.
Negro X| 10.12.10 @ 6:23PM
Madge, go play in traffic you old transvestite troll.
Margie | 10.12.10 @ 6:05PM
Wooohooo , Wooohooo!
I got seven multiple personalities ,Top that Sybil.
WoooHooo !
Margie| 10.12.10 @ 5:59PM
As soon as I get out of The New Jersey Institute For The Criminally Insane my psychiatrist said I can have my toy guns back .
Margie| 10.12.10 @ 6:21PM
You really should work better on tat punctuation, Tim*.
When will AmSpec start a registration process so that this scumbag can't continue this?
The Lord Jesus Christ is watching you, Tim*. The Million Moniker Troll Man.
You can always tell it is him as he cannot place his periods or commas properly. Look at his posts under his name as he regularly posts. The periods are always 2 spaces after where they should be, usually commas as well.
Although I must say he did quite well posting as Madge. Another way you will be able to tell it's the same liar is the gist of the posts~ the constant attack on my mental stability. And the same troll is also using "Sybil" and "Elizabeth".. constant bullying. And using my name as well.
Margie| 10.12.10 @ 6:38PM
I kan't spell , but I good at punctiation .
WoooHoooo !
Anybody want some Thorazine ?
Madge| 10.12.10 @ 7:30PM
Margie,
So Ken is sending you copies of his books? Inscribed with sweet sentiments, perhaps?
Your fondness for Ken (Old Texican) so often resonates with schoolgirl infatuation.
And if you two should get together, I am sure that you are aware that Thorazine causes birth abnormalies, and if you and Ken (Old Texican) aren't careful . . . well, I won't go there, but I imagine you know what I mean.
Ken (Old Texican)| 10.12.10 @ 8:22PM
Madge,
One thing.
I assure you I shall get the last word.
All you can do is carp and snipe.
You are a laughingstock to everyone here.
Are you really using multiple screen names to cover for your vapidness?
Occam's Tool| 10.12.10 @ 8:25PM
Madge, stay out of my territory, psychopharmacology. Chlorpromazine (thorazine) is a typical antispcyhotic of the Phenothiazine subclass. It is a pregnancy category C, and has been around since 1958. No significant risk of fetal abnormalities have been reported with larger studies (Altshuler, et al, American Journal of Psychiatry 1996: vol 153, pages 592-606), although case reports exist---however, there is a baseline rate of abnormalities that needs to be considered. In my practice career of 21 years total, I have never seen 1 case of Thorazine related malformation.
I simply point this out to note your ignorance of psychopharmacology. I will not extrapolate; Ken is perfectly capable of defending himself. I myself, have been a board certified psychiatrist since 1995. So, again, shut up. Everyone has an opinion and a rectum, but you seem to have conflated the two.
Occam's Tool| 10.12.10 @ 8:26PM
Sorry, you pissed me off. "Antipsychotic," and "I, myself," are the corrections.
Tim*| 10.12.10 @ 11:54PM
Get Bent ToolBoy .
Pampered Pooch| 10.12.10 @ 9:33PM
Occam's Tool
My, my, my, aren't we special . . . and precious to boot. Thank you evah so much for your technical enlightenment, Mr. Pretentious Pompous Asperin.
JeffW| 10.12.10 @ 11:51AM
Seek,
Not sure which post qualifies as sucker punching but since mine was the only one (until Ken replied) where a puch was thrown I will assume that is the one you meant. First of all there is no such thing as a fair fight. A sucker punch is when you hit someone from a blindside. My child was standing directly in front of the bully and warned him once to stop. The bully initiated the altercation and was appropriately punished for it. The bully was not "Terrorized" as you suggested. He was given a chance to stop when he was reported to the teacher and another chance when my son told him to stop. Bullies rarely do, so my son then stood up for himself and the problem was solved. My son also served in school detention for this as I told him that sometimes doing the right thing means you still have to pay a price. He did it with a smile on his face, new found self esteem and the knowledge that he would not be punished by me for standing up for himself. He also knows that I will not tolerate him being the bully either. With a bully actions speak louder than words. Case in point: Ahmedinajad and our current President. Those stong words from our administration have really been effective haven't they?
Seek| 10.12.10 @ 7:40PM
I fully support the right to self-defense, with a gun or any other means at one's disposal. I, for one, don't feel like waiting for a cop to arrive, if in immediate harm's way. But self-defense holds up in court as a motive. Sucker punching doesn't. As it should be.
Steve A| 10.12.10 @ 12:55PM
Sorry Seek. Roundhouse smash in the face is the answer, like it or not. Laws, dsicussions etc. do not solve this problem. Nor do they resolve the intent of evil men.
joli| 10.12.10 @ 1:24PM
Wimp. A victimizer is someone who pursues people who can't defend themselves, for the purpose of hurting them (read bully). Unless they are stopped, they will KEEP DOING IT. A victor is the guy who whoops the bully's butt. Problem solved.
Aslan's son| 10.12.10 @ 12:46PM
Bullies must be fought, both in the school or in the world (Iran.)
Ned the Red| 10.12.10 @ 1:02PM
When my youngest, twins, a boy and girl, got to Junior High this bully (media manufactured?) crisis was just getting legs. The school, of course, had developed, with the aid of the ever present child experts a defense tactic for innocent victims of bullies to employ.
The victim was instructed, no matter where they were, to scream at the top of their lungs, “Leave me alone!” and then run to an authority figure for help. My kids had a great time with this rescue mechanism. For days on end whenever one of them bothered or picked on the other, they would scream, “Leave me alone!”
I think our President grew up in this type of mindset. Scream and then run for help. He doesn’t understand, yet, we are the ones others run to for help. When were gone, it’s all over but the crying or the screaming.
Senor Mick| 10.12.10 @ 1:06PM
All bullies belong in concentration camps.
I was bullied throughout elementary, junior high and high school and the one thing I regret is not beating the absolute living crapf those creepy bastards. Even if I had (most likely) lost, perhaps I would have garned some self-respect or perhaps even gotten some respect from the bully as a result. I wasn't ver big or tough, but there is something emasculating about not fighting a properly picked battle.
My parents meant well and were of the "ignore those morons and walk way like a mensch" school, which works with some bullies--the ones who depend on psychological torture--but doesn't work with the ones who are built like brick outhouses (and are filled with the same substance). I always felt emasculated afterwards. I wish my parents--at least my father--had told me that it was fitting and proper to defend oneself if unfairly attacked. That's what I'm going to teach my children.
Vern Crisler| 10.12.10 @ 1:22PM
I agree with the sentiment here that standing up to a bully is the only way to stop the bullying. But that's not always true. In our day of lax discipline and multi-cultural excuse making, a lot of these bullies are part of armed gangs.
The fact is, kids should not have to face this kind of violence as it diverts their attention away from school subjects and into how to be more cool, how to become stronger, etc.
Besides, how will this Rambo stuff work for "gay" students? They aren't generally known for being able to stand up to bullying.
Steve a| 10.12.10 @ 1:43PM
Your statement offers no course of action. We know the problem exists, we know it aint fair & we know it aint gonna stop. Gay or not, swing away, my friend.
bobmontgomery| 10.12.10 @ 1:29PM
All right. I guess we can all agree that ....stealing is wrong, lying is wrong, cheating is wrong, bullying is wrong. We can all join the chorus of how "we are better than this". We are "tolerant". But be careful. There are other kinds of bullying. There is bullying by gay rights activists, Hollywood actors, comedians to intimidate folks into conditioning their children that homosexuality is an acceptable lifestyle and on a par with the traditional definitions of family values. Churches are being bullied into "accepting" the sexual practices not just of their congregants, but their ministers and bishops. In short, do not be surprised down the road when your "tolerance" has been used to undermine your traditional beliefs. As Rahm Emmanuel directed, a good crisis will not be let go to waste, and if the crisis is not severe enough, it will be hyped.
Radegunda| 10.12.10 @ 3:29PM
You're quite correct to point out the bullying that leftists inflict on those they don't agree with. For all the media yammering about the alleged latent violence of the Tea Party movement, the only violence I've heard of in thousands of rallies was directed AGAINST Tea Partiers by leftists.
I've heard many cases of students from elementary school to college being harassed, even by teachers, for expressing conservative views.
As for the suicides of gay young people: it seems odd that the bullying would be increasing (if it is) at the same time that the general culture--the media, Hollywood, and schools--is getting more and more accepting of homosexuality, to the point of celebration. I think one reason is that there's a reaction against the badgering by the opinion elites who tell us it isn't enough to tolerate gay people; we must, MUST embrace gay marriage, gay parenting, and even the public lewdness that's often seen in "gay pride" parades.
Another reason is that the bullying of gay youth may spring from the same source as the (less publicized) bullying of straight youth: a general decay of basic decency toward other people, along with an almost complete destruction of the concept of privacy.
Liberals tend to say: if it's "natural," there's nothing wrong with putting it out in public, and keeping it concealed is puritanical. Conservatives tend to say: some things really ought to be kept private. The crime against Tyler Clementi was probably not "homophobia" so much as an egregious invasion of privacy. Those who invaded his privacy also showed an absence of the most basic human empathy; they didn't ask themselves "how would I feel if ..."?
ton| 10.12.10 @ 3:10PM
Many of these young people are indeed victims; but they have been victimized by culture vultures who, from motives of greed and prurient pleasure, have encourage the sexualization of children and the perverse debasement of the young. Girls who act like whores will more than likely be treated like whores. (Conclusion: respect yourself and others might also). Guys who frolic with other guys will likely be made the butt (excuse me!) of jokes and ridicule from normal guys. This is reality, always has been, always will be, no matter how many movies, sit-coms, pop tunes, and govt commissions pretend otherwise.
Ken (Old Texican)| 10.12.10 @ 4:31PM
I got this e-mail a few minutes ago. I hope the link works...but if it does not...go to youtube and search under Bear Mountain Sports Bakersfield. Click on the one with the pretty blond lady's face. heh.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H4sZ2A04GrY
Nick| 10.13.10 @ 7:10PM
Excellent, Ken, just excellent!
Keep 'em coming!
jrjr| 10.12.10 @ 5:09PM
Those of you who were never the recipient of a bully act, please raise your hand. Next, those of you who never bullied anyone raise your hand. Lastly, those who bullied someone please raise your hand. Anyone left standing? All together now --- Aaaahhhhhhh, poor kid. Get a life dingy! How do you ever expect to learn what life is?
Richard Baker| 10.12.10 @ 6:34PM
Ah, computers. Aren't they just making our lives better? Identity theft, sexting, cyber warfare, and all the rest. Aren't these such wonderful uses for what are, in essence, electronic slide rules? How DID we live before their dissemination? Some of the immature posts contained herein prove my point.
Margie| 10.12.10 @ 7:37PM
Most of the above posts were not mine. The ones at 11:36, 12:36, 2:48, 1:14, 1:12, 11:44, 1:45, 4:32, 5:43, & 6:21.
Those are in order as you scroll down, sorry. I cannot control the stalker Troll.
Is there a right from wrong around here? Must I get lumped together with this freak?
Thanks for your support.
Bob| 10.12.10 @ 7:43PM
One fact of life I observed to be universally true:
"The reward for tolerating bad behavior is more bad behavior"
Occam's Tool| 10.12.10 @ 8:29PM
My son, who is a large boy and extremely powerful, does not engage in fighting. He was oicked on by a smaller kid, and we told him to drag the bully to the teacher next time and report him.
If it doesn't work, of course, I will resort to asymmetrical response. I will explain to my son how to kick the crap out of him.
Richard Baker| 10.12.10 @ 8:38PM
Margie:
Sorry that you're being tarred with the Troll brush. I've had it happen to me and anonymity seems to embolden cowards and mental defectives.
Margie| 10.12.10 @ 8:48PM
Thanks.
Margie| 10.12.10 @ 9:01PM
Just to point out to you guys that it's Tim* using my name and he is using Madge, Sybil, Elizabeth and others as well, look at this one from up above. What does he constantly call me in his Tim* posts? An apocalyptic crank, etc: This one using my name:
Margie| 10.12.10 @ 6:52PM
I like callin' people Scumbags .
I guess it's just The Apocalyptic Crank Psychopath in Me .
Wooo Hoooo !
REPLY TO THIS
And I am telling you check the punctuation in his Tim* posts and you'll see that he can never place a period right after the end of a sentence, and always places his commas 2 spaces after his words. I've even pointed this out a bunch of times so far but he's so mentally unstable he still either doesn't care to hide it or just doesn't care!
God bless and I won't drag this out anymore.
Tim*| 10.12.10 @ 10:12PM
And neither will I .
God bless and sweet dreams and I blow you a kiss .
Tim*| 10.12.10 @ 11:48PM
Margie Blows More than Kisses , She Blow Occam's Tool .
fwb| 10.13.10 @ 12:45PM
Actually, people need to grow thicker skin and teach their children to cope with bullying. Bullying has been where since the second human showed up. It will be with us until the end of humans.
We have become a country of wimps, or cry babies with parents who coddle their children. We fear EVERYTHING. We can handle nothing.
Teach your children this:
Sticks and stone may break my bones but words can never hurt me.
AND MEAN IT.
And take them to a proper selfdefense program where self defense is taught as a last resort. The central teaching of such a program should be to not fight but to end the fight as quickly as possible if you can't keep the other person from attacking you.
And provide them with your time and counsel. If you are too busy or if they are not comfortable with you, find them someone respectable/honorable to help.
Anyone who is bothered by or concerned with what others say about them is weak. There is but one Being in the universe that one should be concerned with and that is God. Nothing else matters.