The American Spectator

Melvin| 10.7.10 @ 7:07AM

I for one, am a product of Vocational Education. Back in 1976 the Washington County School System in Hillsboro Oregon had one of the best vocational programs on the planet.
Vocational Programs began in what they call Middle School now. It taught the fundamentals of working with wood, metal, and the basics of the internal combustion engine.
At this level we didn't learn about constructing bird feeders, the instructors taught us about trees, how long they took to grow, the different types of trees all over the world, and the reforestation program that the State of Oregon and the National Forest Service had in place to replant the forests once they were logged off.
Freshman and Sophomore year's we were taught how to dissemble and assemble a Briggs & Stratton lawn mower engine. The wood shop taught us how to use power tools safely and our projects that we chose build tables and cabinets, and book cases by hand. The metal shop taught us about sheet metal, and how it was made from coming out of the ground to finished product, and we were taught how to build small tool boxes out of 24 gauge sheet metal using the various metal working tools.
My last two years of high school was the big leagues of the trades. There was a whole industrial complex that the school system had in place for us. The automotive course taught us how to take an engine out of a motor vehicle clean it, fix what was wrong with it, and put it back into the vehicle. We could paint as well to make them show room new.
The Metal Shop was my paradise. 11th grade we weren't allowed to touch all the nice shiny metal working machines, we first had classroom instruction for a whole year about metals, alloys, how metals could be formed, and machined to exact tolerances, my senior year, we learned to use milling machines, huge engine lathes, and casting aluminum with a forge and sand cast.
The wood shop we learned about building homes, buildings and the latter part of the year, we actually put into practice by building a house, that someone actually bought.
I know it is a little late to thank those in Washington County School System, but thank you Washington County for giving me the tools to earn a living and be a productive part of society with apprentice skills to choose a profession in any of the trades.
I was also taught Liberal Arts in which I excelled when it finally dawned on me at a personal level that I needed these skills as well to survive.
Now the government run school system of today, teaches nothing about the trades and in some respects they even fail at Liberal Arts level.
When my kids were in high school I used to pick they're brains in what they were learning and it was more of indoctrination that Bush Sr. and Bush Jr. sucked and they were responsible for screwing over the disadvantaged.
I visited the Wood Shop were my son taking a class and the tools and machines were junk and most of them were pushed into the corner collecting sawdust because they were inoperable.
After my career in the Marine Corps I went back to the trades, and we have young kids graduating high school that can't even read a ruler or tape measure.
The majority of these kids can't even swing a framing hammer correctly without injuring themselves or others, and heaven forbid putting a power tool into their hands.
Instead of getting a young man that has a basic knowledge of know his unit of measure, how to operate a power tool safely, we as a business have to take the time and expense and show these young people how to work in our particular trade responsibly and safely.
Another problem that we run into is these kids and many thirty somethings out of the inner cities have no work ethic. We can't do our scheduling effectively because many of employees have a spotty record of being late, not showing up at all, or at the extreme end showing up drunk, or strung out on something.
I know this post is lengthy, but I wanted to paint a picture of what is going on with my corner of the world as far as far as the trades and Liberal Arts.
Maya Angelou would serve the young men and women better in teaching them how to read a tape measure, and at least know which way to swing a hammer, because they don't want to know about poetry and what are the Liberal Arts, they want to know where they're next hook-up will be with, with the young woman down the road with two or more kids, who lives in Section 8 housing.

Toto| 10.7.10 @ 8:47AM

Melvin,

Your comments are insightful, and I would like to add a few of my own.

I have attempted to interest the local community college in reinstating vocational classes, and the president of the college has told me that they have tried it and not enough students will enroll in them. The college offered a course in plumbing a couple of years ago, and nobody signed up for it, although the unenployment among young men is quite high.

Melvin, your last paragraph speaks the truth. The young men who make up the urban poor are, I regret to say, a sorry lot.

They will not enroll in vocational courses because they are too lazy. They had rather have their days free to engage in their favorite pastimes: hangin' out with the homies, having sex and making babies with their Section 8 gals, and drugging themselves.

I know this sounds terribly harsh, but it is the truth.

On the other hand, young Mexican men will jump at any opportunity to learn new work skills. They have the work ethic. And, man, do they work!

Melvin| 10.7.10 @ 9:16AM

One of the singular reasons that those businesses hire foreign labor is, and I'm sure that you are very aware of is, the severe lack of domestic skilled labor.
Your answer is, to create a pool of prospective apprentice level employees with at least one skill in the trades.
The big problem that we all are running into is, as much as I hate to say this is, the large majority of this Country's youth is just plain lazy, and if per chance they do get a job, they one, think they know it all, want zero criticism, and want to start out at $20.00 an hour with no or minimal skills.
The big hurdle for employers is that young employees want a job at they're terms instead of the employers.
There is an extreme lack of respect for authority, which stems from one many come from homes without and authority figure such as a father, and two the schools are on first name basis with the students, who in turn feel that they should be their employers drinking buddy instead of employee.

Texas Mom 2010| 10.7.10 @ 1:03PM

This sounds like a parenting problem to me. It is really important to make your kids help around the house. Once our boys were old enough to do our yard, we let the yard service go. When my husband works on our cars, he has the boys help to learn the skill. They helped replace our fence after hurricane Ike. All these things we are well able to afford paying someone else to do but we choose to use these things as teaching opportunities. The boys have unloaded groceries since they were very young as well. My oldest is autistic but he learned to grocery shop with a list when he was 16. He is now taking 15 hours in his first year of college while working 24 hours a week as a sacker/cart retriever. But his work literally started in grade school... It is up to parents to teach work ethics and skills.

befitz| 10.7.10 @ 9:57AM

Toto,
Just as the administrators consider occupation in the trades a failure, there is an indoctrination of the student body that this is so, as well. I am an M.D., highly specialized pediatric anesthesiologist with almost a decade and a half of post graduate training; a good friend of mine is as much a success having become a master plumber straight out of high school.

Community College Instructor| 10.7.10 @ 11:31AM

I have almost 30 years in the community college system, and I know precisely what goes on in curriculum.

The majority of students have to enroll in basic skills classes (the euphemistic name for these classes is Developmental Education), and they "pass" these courses and enter the "college transfer" classes.

Although the college-transfer instructors lower the standards for these Developmental students, the majority cannot pass the courses. The failure rate is huge.

The community college situation is depressing, and gets more hopeless with each passing semester. Yes, standards have been lowered considerably for the (another euphemism)"non-traditional" students.

Colleges should introduce trade classes, and Developmental students should be encouraged to enter them, but counselors have told them that they are "capable" of getting a college degree. Counselors and other school personnel look down on the trade classes.

Alan Brooks| 10.8.10 @ 12:26AM

So green isn't so faggoty after all?

"or, like the students across town at the Construction Careers Center, how to build an eco-friendly house. "

Melvin| 10.7.10 @ 7:12AM

I apologize for not proof reading my post, I was in a hurry this morning, and my grammar shows it.

Ned| 10.7.10 @ 12:57PM

Melvin - I agree with all, and add some personal context:

I grew up in Salem (yes, that one). We got all the vo-tech stuff you talk about in junior high in my day (class of '66), but more advanced classes were still available at the high school (South Salem - Go Saxons!).

Dad was blue collar his whole life, because in HIS day only the rich kids went to college. However, he was Valdictorian of his class, and took every math class they offered. I learned about using my hands from him, and still at least try to do things myself first, before hiring it out, but I was white collar my entire (first) career.

My eldest son recently finished vo-tech training and his second college degree (two AAs) so there is still some training available, but it's not nearly as comprehensive as it could be, and you have slim pickings for specialization. It seemed to me, however, that the hardest part for him was getting past the whole "you have to go to college to be a success" business - and yes, his mother and I were guilty as hell of pushing him that way. Hopefully we have repaired that mistake.

As to how we all got here - I'll refer back to all the previous AmSpec discussions about the utter lack of competence and quality in the "educational system" - ed students make up the bottom third of graduating college classes, they are fed simpleton liberal orthodoxy and pedigogy from day-one, and can get bounced if they don't sign on, most are women and all buy into the "you have to go to college" schtick... and, of course, the de-industrialization of the US has been going strong for at least 40 years now, dramatically reducing the more obvious opportunities to learn a trade after graduation.

The big issue to me, however, after watching my sons go through public school is the decimation of any standards at all in education. Back in my day we read things like Catcher in the Rye in school - but we read the WHOLE book. My kids were given assignments like "read page 4 and 5", not "read chapter 4 and 5 for tomorrow." Not knowing any better, they would report that they had "read" such-and-such book in school. No,
they didn't. They read 20 pages out of 200 which were carefully selected to make some mundane, canned point supporting liberalism, entirely missing the point of the book as a whole, missing the opportunity to draw their own conclusions, and skipping the mental effort of formulating their own thoughts and ideas from what the author presented. No wonder Johnny Can't Read - he wasn't expected to.

Assignments have been so dumbed-down that where I live now, we had a whole cohort of math teachers quit, rather than accept the latest cirriculum, which was being forced upon them because the education of the younger teachers was so poor that they couldn't handle the old cirriculum. Toss in the litany of inner-city dysfunction, ignorant parents raising ignorant children - or more often "parent" - and the whole self-esteem mantra of education, and is it any wonder we're on a sleighride to oblivion.

BTW - I think Obozo is the perfect product of our education system. He thinks he's smart for no better reason than that he thinks he's smart, when in fact he's an EEO/AAP product with very few real talents.

Ned| 10.7.10 @ 1:11PM

Oh, and my greatest accomplishment in life is that my kids are normal, healthy, and decidedly NOT liberal...

MightyMighty| 10.8.10 @ 12:15AM

I agree with all of these posts, but had to say, I LOVE "sleighride to oblivion." So oddly merry and eery at the same time!

Also, my husband and I intend to homeschool our kids when they are older, and transition them into a trade during high school so they can put themselves through college if they still want to go that route.

We're English teachers. :) But we can see that most of our peers have not done as well as we have, and we are the ones who were waiting tables, babysitting, etc. during school. A good work ethic is more valuable than any other quality. A hard worker can learn almost anything, a lazy man almost nothing.

Alan Brooks| 10.8.10 @ 12:32AM

"He thinks he's smart for no better reason than that he thinks he's smart, when in fact he's an EEO/AAP product with very few real talents."

he's more talented than you--
you could never be president. Let's see, Salem: that wouldn't be that fairly liberal Salem in Oregon, would it? Bet there are some Salem liberals in your family, too.

Appleby| 10.7.10 @ 7:21AM

Daddy always said that a girl needed both a profession and a trade, so sh could always be sure of earning a living. He was a feminist before anybody had ever come up with the term although he would have knocked you down for calling him one; but if he had boys instead of girls, I am sure he would have given them the same advice. I had a classical liberal arts education which has served me well in a rapidly changing and rapidly shrinking world through which I have been delighted to travel; but I had a year of secretarial training too, including bookkeeping (a waste of time for me), business law, and most important of all, typing. I came out of university into the middle of the Nixon Recession with its Wage-Price Freeze, along with 70 million other Boomers, and my first job was typing up court reporter tapes for 50 cents a page. I left that job with a typing speed of 93 words per minute, and never looked back from there.

Last night I heard a news segment that favoured banning homework, and high school girls whining that *we have other things to do* besides educating themselves for either a profession or a trade; and I thought, yeah, you have to tweet! You have to update your facebook page! You have to go clubbing and get drunk and have sex!

The problem is not in what to teach *kids* -- the real problem is convincing them that you have a right to infringe on their *better things to do* by insisting on teaching them anything at all.

Melvin| 10.7.10 @ 9:19AM

Appleby, in you opinion do you think that this stems from technology. One aspect to look at is, instead of going to the library and developing their own thoughts on paper, they cut and paste with the computer someone else's, and therefore intellectually deficient in their own right.

Cromulent| 10.7.10 @ 11:47AM

Ahh, typing class. What fond memories. 27 girls and just 3 of us boys, with me being the only straight one. A seat at the back of the class, and a constant stream of girls getting up and sitting down. Getting up and sitting down. I was generally "up".

Took me a couple of months, but I silently thanked my dad an awful lot for making me take that class. If I had talked to him about it he would have inquired as to my final speed and would not have been happy with the results. I got there eventually.

Getting up and sitting down. Getting up and sitting down. Damn I miss that.

Melvin| 10.7.10 @ 12:15PM

That was on those old Olympia's right?

Cromulent| 10.7.10 @ 2:49PM

No, I'm not quite to that age. For us it was all IBM Selectrics.

You know with the jeans the girls wear these days I don't think it would be as pleasurable. I don't get the idea of girls wearing clothes that make you look more like a boy. Seems like they are designed by gay men.

Do they even have typing class anymore?

Bob S| 10.7.10 @ 4:44PM

I think they call it "Keyboarding" now.

Alan Brooks| 10.8.10 @ 12:34AM

"He was a feminist before anybody had ever come up with the term although he would have knocked you down for calling him one"

Because Daddy didn't like the truth?

Appleby| 10.8.10 @ 9:01PM

No, because Daddy made no difference between girls and boys; he said the only things girls could not at least try to do (assuming they had the talent and the ambition they needed) were play pro football and father children.

I do think a lot of the intrinsic laziness, mental as well as physical, is caused by the electronic binkie slinging that takes the place of having to do physical labour to find out how to do things. Heaven knows I am not luddite; the calculator helped me pole vault over my arithmetic handicap into at least elementary algebra, which opened up much of science to me. But how do people know what to look up if they never learned anything in the first place? I use the internet to find the rest of quotations I vaguely remember or cannot remember whom I am quoting -- or Bible verses I remember but not where they come from -- but how does a person look anything up if he never learned it in the first place?

My first typewriter, incidentally, was one of those old Underwood Standards that had no case and I developed such a heavy handed touch that when I got a nice little portable to take to Bible College, the thing would actually bounce when I typed on it! It was not electric. I was well into the work force before electric typewriters of any kind became commonplace, and I didnt have my first computer until the mid 1970s. And that one I had to write my own programs for and change the chips myself, and the manual was about fifty pages. I still have the manual. I also have a book called *What to do when you get your hands on a ONE K. computer.* Raise your hands if you can even imagine such a thing.

Bill Hussein O'Stalin| 10.7.10 @ 7:32AM

If you train the students to be intelligent they would embrace traditional American beliefs.

By steeping them in the beliefs of secular humanism you convert them to liberalism and a life of misery.

Mike Fisher| 10.7.10 @ 7:32AM

Good points to be sure, Mr. Orlet. But you may be surprised to learn that absolutely no one uses slide rules anymore.

Steve| 10.7.10 @ 8:14AM

Yes, very good points. Carburetors? They might learn about carburetors in history class. Fuel injection - major breakthrough. It is the reason we can actually start are cars on cold mornings. BTW, is there a suitable monument to the inventor?

wukong| 10.7.10 @ 9:24AM

Baloney,

I just pulled the computer controlled banger out of my truck and replaced it with a dinosaur with a carburetor. My other car a 1960 El Camino has a carb and a three wire harness. It will start and run. If not, I do not need R2D2 to figure out why.

Bob S| 10.7.10 @ 4:48PM

Fuel Injection and EC computers were installed in cars not necessarily for technological purposes but to improve gas mileage (CAFE) and to reduce emissions (EPA). Government interference (again). Yes, even though I'm an engineer myself, I too remember fondly when one could repair a car without a whole laboratory full of test equipment.

Appleby| 10.8.10 @ 9:06PM

Ditto. I used to work on my Studebaker Lark VI under a tree. By then of course the parts had to be rebuilt, but I could diagnose the problem, take out the part, get it rebuilt and reinstall it myself. Mechanics hated me because I knew a voltage regulator from an alternator and because sometimes I would call something *that spidery thing* but I knew what it did.

Qwilly| 10.7.10 @ 8:23AM

Conservatives practice Turth so they know the value. Liberals and Progressives practice falsehoods
and fake realities.

Petronius| 10.7.10 @ 8:35AM

The pupils in the St. Louis Public Schools first must be told that they are there to prepare for making a living on their own; that they aren't "owed" anything by anybody, and then forced to learn basic skills no matter how much they resist.
If this can't be accomplished, all else is futile.

Ken (Old Texican)| 10.7.10 @ 8:52AM

Even in the 60s, I averaged about one good teacher per semester. (out of six teachers)

My shop classes were almost like recess they were so fascinating. Probably the highlight of the school day. My best "trade" turned out to be baseball.
I was a left handed knuckle baller heh heh.

Denver Todd| 10.7.10 @ 9:12AM

I earned a BA in business, then went back to a trade school to learn something real. Best thing is that my BA fulfilled the general ed requirements at the trade school, so I was granted an AAS withou any extra work. I have been employed ever since.

Louis Jenkins| 10.7.10 @ 10:06AM

It sounds as if most of the posters here have one or both feet into the vocational world. I cannot say enough positive comments about it. Yes, I too have a BA degree, but the vocational training I received in high school has been most beneficial. From shop to typing I took as many courses as my curriculm allowed. But those days are gone. Unfortunately, the graduates of today's learning institutions are products of the social-liberal education system, and it has no room for those of us who have our feet firmly planted in the real world.

Ken (Old Texican)| 10.7.10 @ 11:25AM

Louis,
I often tell a joke on myself: "I started at the top and went downhill from there. I used to employ thousands, and now I just try to employ myself."

Heh, I never lifted a hammer in "anger"...(financially productive), until my fifties. I CEOd a huge Japanese construction start-up company for years starting at age 27.

Then I built my own home.
Every board, every pipe, every wire, and every shingle...even the air-conditioning and insulation components.
The only "pre-fab" part was the fireplace/chimney.

Heh, I dare any among you to design and build a clean burning, great exhausting fire-place/ chimney.
It is truly an art.

Louis Jenkins| 10.7.10 @ 12:33PM

Ken:

That's why I contracted my prefabbed chimney out to someone who knew what they were doing. The brick work facade and insulation I did myself. Plumbing and electrical, and such, I did (do) it myself. Next, I've got another bathroom to remodel. (Can't wait.) Enough cannot be said for men with a trained knack for that kind of stuff. The established Hitler intelligentsia may think they have our children, but my two are not easily led. I'm trying my best to lead them and hope I see the results of going against the grain.

Redstateboy| 10.7.10 @ 11:11AM

Hitler was quoted as saying.. When someone says they oppose what we're doing, I say; but we already have your children - who are you? This is precisely what the Liber-uls want.. a Nation of simpleton dolts.. easily controllable and easily led.

Redstateboy| 10.7.10 @ 11:21AM

ok.. I'm a Racist. Well that's what one is called today when one speaks Truth when it has anything to do with Race. Along with the Stupid Liber-ul Educational System teaching Inner-city Yout Liber-ul Art subjects they can't use to get a job... the Stupidest in my opinion is the Black Community resigning Generations of their own to second class economic status by their Insane insistance in Naming their Children moronic Names all for the sake of..... Indentity!! Names like: Tyneria, Temequa, Demarius, Shantay? What the F! is this!!? I get these calls everyday from some kid living in some Inner City SchittHole and when I ask them to spell their Name for me... They grow INDIGNANT on the phone...!! As if I'm supposed to know how to spell their stupid names!

Ken (Old Texican)| 10.7.10 @ 11:33AM

Redstateboy,
I am not a slow reader. I had to wipe the coffee off my screen. It took a while.
Yours was a "coffee spitter" laugh.

OKOK, must tell you the origins of that practice among black folks. During the slavery years, a slave only got ONE name. They made the most of it.
They couldn't spell it, but they could (sorta') pronounce it.
Heh, my own grandmother always spelled my name "Kinny". (She was raised Sioux but Christian, and had a third grade education.)

Redstateboy| 10.7.10 @ 12:15PM

RogerThat on the reason but Gheeezz.. how long ago was 100 years.

Pat| 10.7.10 @ 12:28PM

Dear Santa:

Been a good boy this year, mostly, so please bring a lot of “taxpayer funding” to the Clinton Occupational Trade School for the Disadvantaged in Detroit this Christmas and tell them it’s for me. I got into this new federal program where they pay me to go to school to learn a trade. They gonna teach me to be a plumber but I don’t wanna work around no smelly stuff so I think I’ll learn plumbing for a while and then switch to something else. Electricity scares me so maybe I be a jeweler cause they don’t have to crawl around folks attics or work in a basement with spider webs. The Administrator said I could study a different trade if things don’t work out with the plumbing. She also said a bunch of silly stuff like not giving me a fish but teaching me how to fish. I don’t wanna be no fisherman, I never eat fish. I figure I can milk this program for 3 or 4 years before they kick me out. You remember they kicked me out of high school after only 2 years but this time I’ll follow the rules cause they going to pay me to sit in class, that’s a sweet deal.

Since I wrote you last year, I tried working for the first time. I hated it. Got me a job in a donut shop but this fool expected me to show up before it even got light every morning. Just 1 hour for lunch and the boss said I had to come in 5 days in a row – hey, I don’t go nowhere 5 days in a row. I was only late a few times, and I really was sick on one of them sick days. Supposed to show up every Monday morning too even when I got drunked out that one week-end. Finally, when my girlfriend was slow in getting my bail money the boss fired me – the #$&%%!

Santa, you know me and you know other folks been taking care of me my whole life – I don’t plan for that to change. This Administrator, she said I could be in the program as long as the taxpayer funding held out, so please give them some funding. You know I ain’t good with numbers – would a billion dollars be enough for a few years?

Thanks from your friend, Darnel Hakeem Poor

David W| 10.7.10 @ 12:57PM

There is a reality TV show called Jail. I saw an episode where they had arrested someone on being under the influence. They just took him off the street so he wouldn't hurt himself. When he was released they asked him how much he smoked. He said "12 blunts" (I assume cigars hollowed out and filled with pot) a day. They asked where he got the money to do that. He borrowed it from his Grandmother (yea, sure) and from SSI (social security?). Makes you wonder if some of these eugenics supporters have good reason for their scary beliefs.

Ned| 10.7.10 @ 1:07PM

Yes, SSI is the "disability" segment of Social Security - see, silly you, you thought that you had to "contribute" to Social Security before you could get benefits...

Then ask the stoner how many "12" is... now THAT'S scary...

crookedwren| 10.7.10 @ 1:05PM

My old high school had vocational programs -- in mechanics and nursing, as I recall. I wasn't in them, but they surely were a blessing for our rather blue-collar (or low middle class white collar guys and working moms).

I taught for about five years at a small high school and middle school in Small-Town, Southern Appalachian school. Some brilliantly talented kids there, but the German exchange student (dazzling young woman) outscored the best of them in American History.

Had a few terrific young men who were already doing a man's job -- welding things, bringing down huge trees, tinkering with cars. But the school still seemed to want these kids to stay alert in long, block classes of English class (ninety minutes that seemed an eternity to them), History and other Social Studies, Science, higher Maths. Those young men -- those with a strong work ethic -- will earn far more than I ever will with my two Masters degrees in the Arts. And well they should.

But too many are burdened too much with the materials the Educational Bureaucrats in the Fed. Dept. of Education want them to learn.

One thing to recall -- in the U.S. -- at this point anyway -- we can still go back to college if our intellect awakens and we want to learn those more erudite subjects.

Frankly, I perceive a desire to use long periods of schooling as a way of continuing the everlasting, endless process of indoctrination -- to get these kids in the grasp of the Progressive Bureaucrat.

Hard to push back in college! Progressive and Marx-adoring Profs are to be found throughout academia. Hard to get a college education without getting some of the poison. Drop - by - drop. Slow. Steady.

Those of us from lower income or very modest income families, growing up in the 50s and 60s, were not particularly susceptible. Not those of us who grew up within 150 miles of Cuba, anyway. We knew the evils and the real "downside" of socialism and communism. We saw the lines at stores in the old Soviet Union. We knew what people would risk to get to freedom that called for personal responsibility. Who longed for that.

But these younger ones, I'm afraid they aren't as aware of those evils.

These DE bureaucrats know that.

Flee| 10.7.10 @ 2:52PM

This comes back to indoctrination. The liberals lose their ability to indoctrinate our youth if they go learn a trade. Trades require actual study of physical items and properties rather than listening intently as the instructors spout the usual party lines. The liberals claim they want the working man to succeed yet cut off funding for shop classes and horticulture areas in schools at the drop of a hat. They encourage a glut of lawyers and hope illegal aliens from around the world will take care of the physical labor required to keep our advanced society running. Its a shame.

Jeamar| 10.7.10 @ 4:45PM

Amen! Those who preach the glory of European schools almost never admit they are talking about what we would call serious "college prep" schools and never admit that the majority of people go to trade schools, union apprenticeships, and vocational schools. As a retired high school teacher, I can tell you that is what the US school systems should be promoting instead of our one-size-fits-all college prep curriculum thinking only losers don't want it.

Bob S| 10.7.10 @ 5:01PM

I remember my high school days. We had shop classes: wood, metal, auto mechanics, and electrical (they also had ceramics, but I don't know if that counts). In my freshman year, I signed up for two classes, but the demand was so great that year that they instituted a rule that only one shop class per year could be taken. Took them all, and they were the highlight of the day.

Years later, I remember going back to the school, and I looked at all the old shop class rooms. All closed up and inactive. I asked my father (who was on the school board at the time) what the deal was. He said that they had discontinued all the classes because the liability insurance for keeping the shop classes open was more than the school could afford. Pretty outrageous, but then again it's Western NY.

The Professor| 10.7.10 @ 7:06PM

There were no boys in my typing class in 1970 because the teacher would not allow it. Her motto was "boys will grow up and have secretaries; if a girl learns how to type, she can always find a job."

Yup, I learned how to type and have had about three really good careers starting with that one skill, but it DID take work.

I've now worked in academia for close to 15 years, and every year I support the need for vocational schooling more and more. Some kids just aren't cut out for college and it is a mistake to try and fit all kids into the same mold. Whatever happened to the freedom to do your own thing?

One of my pet peeves is that in forcing kids to sit through long blocks of academic classes in middle school and high school, we have created the epidemic of ADHD diagnoses. While there are some true cases of it, I think most are simply kids who need the stimulation of wood shop, metal shop, etc. (girls included!) and just can't concentrate on books all day.

Case in point: my stepson has been on strong ADHD drugs since before I knew him. He started an automotive vocational program at a community college this year (he's 18). He came home after the first week and said that he had quit taking his meds and was doing fine...and that most of the other students had said the same thing. He then took a poll and 90% of the students had been on ADHD meds. But this program keeps them busy and moving, going from the books to the cars, and back again.

He needed this program beginning his freshman year of high school instead of having to wait until his senior year and then us having to fight tooth and nail to get him into it because his high school counselors and teachers wanted to keep him there (and he would have dropped out).

His father and I are thrilled that he's found a passion--he'll come out of that program and walk into a job starting at about $50K a year--almost as much as I make as a tenured prof with a PhD at a small college! I'm so proud of him for choosing to follow his passion for cars!

BJ Hice| 10.7.10 @ 9:47PM

I can tell you where all the voc schools are now - in our prisons. And inmates are eager to get into the schools and learn trades to take back to the street with them. Always wonder how many of them could have avoided prison had they had the opportunity to enter a voc school as a teen.

Bob From District 9| 10.8.10 @ 12:02PM

"BUT OUR URBAN school boards remain convinced that the only way to end urban poverty is for inner-city students to go on to a liberal arts college. Instead of putting a slide rule or a soldering iron in his hand, the teacher hands him a Maya Angelou novel. No wonder he drops out sophomore year. Who could blame him?"

I could blame you. When you write garbage like that you contribute to the failure rate. Speaking as someone who started about 45 years ago, with a soldering iron in my hand, and a slide rule, not a computer programming industrial automation, I can say you have no idea what you are talking about.

A SLIDE RULE? Where the hell have you been for the last 20 years. I think I am one of the 6 people left in this country who has a slide rule, knows where it is, and remembers how to use it. When my children entered high school they had to have a graphing calculator.

My family has a long history of working at factory and skilled jobs, I started out working in skilled jobs, none of my children are doing factory work or other skilled jobs, nor would I suggest that to them. Thanks to those who read things like the American Spectator, working for a living has lost respect, and economic value. BTW, I don't normally, but got on their email list long ago. Which is how I found this commentary.

"How much better if the St. Louis Public Schools followed the example of rural school districts and offered more vocational programs where you learned how to repair a carburetor, or, like the "

Repair a carburetor? You better find a specialty shop to work at or you will go hungry a lot. Ever heard of fuel injection?

"students across town at the Construction Careers Center, how to build an eco-friendly house. "

How to build an eco-friendly house is something I could sell to a school board in a minute. That's the current fashion in socially aware thinking.

"... CCC was instead founded by the Associated General Contractors of St. Louis and the local construction industry. When students graduate, many enter a building trades apprenticeship program."

And that is the traditional path to construction work. Vocation ed was never been the route "in my day" as you say. Visit a trades union and ask about training. The unions run schools where the apprentices get hands on training. The academic side is done through post high school community colleges and vocational schools. I find it hard to believe St Louis doesn't have such.

"What's more, CCC scored the fourth highest of the 13 St. Louis public high schools in advanced math, outperforming all regular high schools and four magnet schools. The website says 98 percent of graduating students are either working or attending college. About 30 percent enter the construction industry."

And that is the point on which you should sell those schools. The graduates are better qualified for college. And the voc-ed schools should also teach arts and music and literature. A fully educated worker is a better citizen.

I grew up in a day when near 90% of children did not get a college degree. We still had music, art and literature in elementary and high school. It's considered education, not training to be a grunt worker. Oh, and this society has a lot less need for grunt workers. Factories have computers on fork lifts these days.

"They still hold on to the idea that every student should go to college, and don't seem to mind that only six percent of low-income students earn a Bachelor's degree by the time they are twenty-four. "

It seems your answer is to shut out most low income students from higher education. The answer is to increase the number of low income students graduating from college, not stop them from trying. And the high cost of college is one of the biggest factors causing that low graduation rate.

BTW, my daughter recently graduated from college after 7 years, at age 23. Taking more than 4 years is not only happening, it's common.

"Even if you are one of the lucky six percent, who's to say your expensive bachelor's degree will help "

You just raised one of the most important issues, but didn't address it. College is getting more expensive, because... well... people who read the American Spectator vote no against supporting higher education. That is what shuts young minorities out of the system, and a whole lot more young whites.

"you get the job you will need to pay off your massive student loan debt? (Average salary for a college-educated reporter: $31,000. Average salary for a plumber: $50,000.)"

A little truth here, please fella. Yes the average salary for a plumber is $50K/yr. But that is about where they top out. That salary for a reporter is deceptive, reporters are both low paid, and likely to be low in time as many leave the profession early on. Engineers and economists and architechs make a lot more.

"You would think with all the quasi-socialists on urban school boards, members would be more worker friendly. In my day, socialists used to hold scholars in contempt, while glorifying the proletariat."

In my day scholars were never held in contempt, just right wing pseudo-scholars.
...

Mel Torme| 10.8.10 @ 7:08PM

In the words of Butch Cassidy, "who are these guys?"

Bob, are you sure the sign says "District 9", not "Ward 9"? Where do you come up with this stuff? The only sane statements in your rant were the parts where you ragged on Mr. Orlet about slide rules and carburetors. True, he is obviously not a fix-it guy himself, or he would never have thought that anybody uses a slide rule (since the early 70's, that is) or has a carburetor (since the early 90's, that is).

However, with the rest of your argument to Mr. Orlet, you are out in left field. You call people "grunt workers" who work in the trades. Grunt work would be digging ditches, and moving sacks of concrete and roofing materials around. Americans don't do that much (except for themselves), as one can get paid more from the government than once can get for this grunt work, so it is left to illegal Mexicans. The bulk of the grunt work has been taken by power machines, and more power to them (pun intended).

Plumbing, electrical work, electronics, computer repair (hardware or software), auto and aircraft repair, machining, etc. are all good jobs that give (mostly) a man a lot of satisfaction. They are far from grunt work, my friend. These are trades that can be taught in vocational school. Yes, the tools of the trades change, and the need for some skills goes away, but the need for these skills remain.

You've really bought the proverbial "cheap swampland in Florida" in your views of college, Ward 9. As Orlet, Instapundit, commenters here and a host of other Americans are starting to realize, college is becoming a 50-100K four year party, and the payback goes on for most of the rest of the students' lives. Don't push that crap on me (and I've got a graduate degree).

Yes, for engineering, math, physics (got to go all the way in those last 2 majors, though), and the pre-med path, college is obviously a must. College is not for everyone. The number is probably in the range of 20-30 % - that is, people who really would come out ahead in life by attending. For the rest, I am sure that they feel it is worth it during those 4 years of fun and relative freedom, but the bill will come due. Not everyone has the brains to be an engineer, but that doesn't mean they can't learn a lot of other skills, including working with their hands.

Your comparison of plumbers vs. reporters salaries doesn't make a whole lot of sense. You say reporter's salaries are low because the average on doesn't stay in the business long? What? That still means the average salary is low, and the median is probably even lower. A plumber probably makes another 25 K off the books, which is like 35 K on the books in 2010 and like 45 K on the books after 2011. Good on 'em too. The more we starve the government, the better. In a salary job, there is no "off the books" money to be make. In the trades, bartering can be helpful too.

What is this 7 years to finish college nonsense. Unless it is due to lack of funds, the only reason one can't finish in 4 is if there are numerous F's and D's made. Did you notice if you got all of the grades in the mail from your daughter's school during these 7 ! years? (possibly, during a few bad semesters, she had the permanent address changed - don't ask how I thought of this.)

Appleby| 10.8.10 @ 9:14PM

I have a slide rule. Fortunately I bought an $800 four-banger calculator (one of 3 in my chemistry class at night school in the 1970s) and found that i could do squares, square roots and percentages with the press of a button, before I had to learn to use it. My prof said that calculators were toys for rich kids and would never *catch on*.

NA$CAR still uses carburetors, I think. You can make a lot of money working for NA$CAR.

Mel Torme| 10.8.10 @ 10:18PM

Your comment on the slide rule reminds me of a certain exam day in Chemistry in college (mid-80's). One friend of mine left his calculator back at the dorm and told the professor that. The professor said "no problem" and handed the guy a slide rule. We laughed about that one for the whole semester ( I mean except the friend, as he didn't find it particularly funny, and had to struggle the rest of the sememster to bring that Chem. grade back up).

Bob From District 9| 10.8.10 @ 12:07PM

"Ned| 10.7.10 @ 1:07PM

Yes, SSI is the "disability" segment of Social Security - see, silly you, you thought that you had to "contribute" to Social Security before you could get benefits..."

You do.

SSI is administered by social security, but it is not part of social security nor is it paid for out of social security funds.

Bob From District 9| 10.8.10 @ 12:16PM

"This comes back to indoctrination. The liberals lose their ability to indoctrinate our youth if they go learn a trade. Trades require actual study of physical items and properties rather than listening intently as the instructors spout the usual party lines.

Ah, the great lie! Liberals don't want to cut of Voc-Ed. Becoming a working man is the surest route to liberalism. Oh, yes, most working people are socially conservative, but most supporters of democratic candidates tend to be conservative. They just recognize how little the republicans adhere to true conservative values.

"The liberals claim they want the working man to succeed yet cut off funding for shop classes and horticulture areas in schools at the drop of a hat. "

Another big lie! It's the conservatives who have cut school funding to the point where anything other than readin, ritin and rithmatic has to go. Remember the three Rs? It was never liberals who pushed that narrow focus, just conservatives.

"They encourage a glut of lawyers and hope illegal aliens from around the world will take care of the physical labor required to keep our advanced society running. "

The biggest lie of all. It's the right, the business interests, the wage cutters, and the various business promoting agencies that want illegal immigrant labor. The only reason to import such labor is to cut the wages of American workers. And that is the policy of the right.

"Its a shame."

Yes, it is.

Bob From District 9| 10.8.10 @ 12:34PM

BTW

"Here is where my desire to get along with my fiancée's friends is trumped by my compulsion to set the world straight, and I open my big mouth."

Yep, your compulsion would get you in trouble. If you actually knew what you were talking about you might have fared better.

"Sure, you can take one or two kids from each inner-city school and put them in some feel-good arts programs. Then, when they graduate high school, they can try to find work making origami and sidewalk murals for AT&T and Chrysler."

Actually, arts based programs have been shown to produce better academic outcomes.

I learned to solder about 45 years ago, learned to work on carburetor sometime between then and now. These days most of my soldering is on hobby stuff, and I don't have a car with a carburetor. So I have been there and done that, and I am a big proponent of vocational education. I just don't see it as the dumping grounds for students who aren't in the top 10 as you seem to see it. Most students who aren't going to college don't belong in construction or factory work either.

Many voc-ed students are prime college material. They chose vocational education, in a good system. Ever watch a tool and die maker work? He uses more math than most college grads. Any decent factory is a $100million physics lab.

All students need art and music and literature, and all should get some auto mechanics and home economics. It's called preparation for life. Don't try to compartmentalize life so much. Don't shut the voc-ed student out of college, he may want to go 20 years down the road, and he will probably be a superior student.