The American Spectator : Obama as Diocletian

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Obama as Diocletian

By Bill Croke on 10.6.10 @ 6:07AM

He shouldn't flatter himself.

For all the recent controversy in Washington concerning the future of the sunsetting Bush tax cuts, we have yet to hear from the National Commission on Fiscal Responsibility and Reform, the bipartisan commission whose report is due in December. It could possibly recommend the creation of a VAT tax or a national sales tax, coupled with the always laughable promise of Congressional spending cuts. "Nothing is off the table", Deficit Commission co-chair and former U.S. Senator Alan K. Simpson told Fox News Sunday some months ago.

I've been on a Roman history binge lately. Some flipped-through dogeared Penguin paperbacks off my shelves (Julius Caesar's The Conquest of Gaul, Suetonius, Tacitus, Plutarch), and a dusty old tome got from the public library simply titled History of Rome (1923) by a long-gone Columbia University history professor named Tenney Frank. All this miscellaneous scholarly reading has me entertaining the gloomy notion that the United States is going the way of the Roman Empire.

Some would argue that we haven't yet lost "the Republic" in its classic American definition of representative government. Rome as republic-morphing-into-empire lasted eleven hundred years, only truly crumbling in the last three hundred. Thanks to modern technology, we seem to be doing it much faster.

Roman history is replete with world historical figures from the civically virtuous (the Scipios, the Gracchi) to intellectual giants (Cicero, Virgil, Horace). Let's not forget the brilliant schemers (Julius Caesar, Augustus) and the absolutely powerful but crazy (Caligula, Nero). One who caught my eye was the Emperor Diocletian (Gaius Aurelius Valerius Diocletianus).

Historians credit Diocletian (reigned: 284-305 A.D.) with repairing the political and economic damage the result of Rome's, in Professor Frank's phrase, "fifty years of anarchy" in the third century, when the empire saw a preview of its final dissolution two centuries later. Barbarian tribes were breaching the Danube and Rhine frontiers, there was an ongoing war with Persia in the east, and military-civil wars raged as Roman legions battled each other in the interests of putting their own candidates (mostly generals) on the imperial throne. Twenty-five emperors reigned in 33 years, some for only a few days or weeks, and most were assassinated. Diocletian, an Illyrian and a soldier (a cavalry general), put the whole mess back together by sheer force of will and at the point of a sword. He split the empire into its East-West configuration in order to govern it more efficiently, establishing the "Tetrarchy" of a co-emperor (Maximian) and subordinates. But history shows us that his efforts were too little-too late, and in many ways misguided.

Diocletian was the Augustus of Late Antiquity. In political terms he can be compared to Abraham Lincoln, in economics he was a Marxist before Marx. This patriotic Roman citizen seeking -- to use a Lincolnian metaphor -- to bind the wounds of a bleeding Roman Empire, imposed a burdensome income tax system. In the short term he saved the day by pouring money into the empire's long-neglected infrastructure (cities, roads, aqueducts, etc.). In the long run he crushed its economic vitality. In 301 AD he issued the Edict on Maximum Prices, a disastrous experiment of price controls, which faded away after it was universally ignored.

Diocletian expanded the IRS-like tax collecting bureaucracy that became generational. If you were a firstborn male and your father was a tax collector, so would you be, and were despised from birth. Individual tax collectors had quotas, and if they came up short were responsible for making up the difference. This only added to the rampant corruption.

The tax system was so extensive and corrupt that it resembled the Beatles song "Tax Man" (a satirical take on the post-World War II British welfare state). Considering its primitive non-tech methods, it efficiently taxed everybody: farmers, merchants, and artisans.

Diocletian was analogous to a surgeon who extends the life of a patient in old age. But the tax system made Rome a totalitarian state at the expense of the rights that Roman citizens had enjoyed since the days of the Republic. There were restrictive laws forbidding the changing of occupations, and businesses were taken over and land was confiscated in lieu of taxes. There were penalties as severe as death for deviations from this system.

All incentive for entrepreneurial activity was stifled. This gave rise to a black market economy for goods and services. And so the empire endured with massive resources extracted from the people to sustain it. The empire went on without the support of the populace, and its final dissolution was hardly noticed by the average Roman, who was really not a Roman at all in the classical sense.

In third century Rome there was no welfare state per se, other than the occasional free distribution of grain in times of local famine, war, plague and other hardships. Hordes of slaves populated the estates of the Roman aristocracy. Young unpropertied men lacking employment ironically joined the army for 20-year terms in order to survive economically. Then in times of war and political anarchy, the trick was to survive -- period.

Much of the tax revenue went to the army, those thousands of men in the legions garrisoned in the far flung corners of the empire. For the emperors of Late Antiquity to neglect the legions was to put in jeopardy their political futures, that is, their lives. In ancient Rome "the politics of personal destruction" wasn't a metaphor. Diocletian might have known of his predecessor Septimus Severus' (193-211) deathbed advice to his son Caracalla (211-218): "Pay the soldiers. The rest of it will take care of itself." Another irony is that the legions in the provinces were increasingly staffed by those same barbarians putting pressure on the borders.

Diocletian's burdensome tax policies added to an already unsteady state of affairs. The subsequent Fourth Century saw one last noteworthy emperor early on in Constantine (311-337). After that it was back to imperial instability and anarchy. Scholars argue whether Constantine's toleration of the three centuries old Christian Church (he was baptized on his deathbed) contributed to the empire's demise. And the geopolitical pressures exerted by the barbarians on the frontiers in Northern Europe were certainly a permanent demographic problem. But Diocletian's fiscal policies spawned Rome's economic ruin. The empire simply could not endure if governed by weak emperors serving at the pleasure of the army, an impotent Senate, a decadent aristocracy, tax collectors and bureaucrats. The Fifth Century saw the strife of the Third Century writ large, and the barbarian hosts finally showed up and burned the libraries and knocked down the statues.

America has no private armies or barbarian tribes crisscrossing the landscape committing murder and mayhem (the media smears of the Tea Party notwithstanding). But our economic malaise has its antecedents in antiquity. Will we learn from those mistakes?

About the Author

Bill Croke, formerly of Cody, Wyoming, is a writer in Salmon, Idaho.

Letter to the Editor View all comments (98) | Leave a comment

drudge ette obama| 10.6.10 @ 6:16AM

First we have to know about the antecedents in antiquity. Then we may learn.

Evanston2| 10.6.10 @ 1:37PM

Indeed, we should also remember that the Diocletianic Persecution (303–11) was the empire's last, largest, and bloodiest official persecution of Christianity.

Leticia Velasquez| 10.7.10 @ 12:55PM

Evanston2, you just pinpointed Obama's resemblance to Diocletian.

Alan Brooks| 10.6.10 @ 7:04PM

"I've been on a Roman history binge lately."

Yes, a SIMPLER time, that.

Kevin Gutzman| 10.7.10 @ 4:35PM

Diocletian was one of history's most egregious persecutors of Christians, a Roman Stalin. Check any set of Orthodox saints' lives, and you'll find one who was martyred by Diocletian being commemorated every two or three days.

Mike Delaney| 10.6.10 @ 6:44AM

"America has no private armies or barbarian tribes crisscrossing the landscape committing murder and mayhem "

Might want to take a look at our SW border to fulfill that requirement. Plenty of invasive murder and mayhem there.

Marty| 10.7.10 @ 3:20PM

And gangs in some parts of our large cities

potkas7| 10.6.10 @ 7:02AM

Will we learn from those mistakes? No probably not. If there is one Lesson of History that has been true throughout the ages it is that no one ever seems to learn from history. Rome is a perfect example of how little we actually know about a subject we think we know well.

The Roman Empire did not collapse in the 5th Century, only the city of Rome, which by then was only a shadow of its former self, ceased to be important. Think of it in the same way as the collapse of America's premier industrial city - Detroit - wasn't the end of America either. We changed our point of focus and so did the Romans, eastward to the new capitol at Constantinople (formerly a Greek town called Byzantium.) And that imperial city, arguably the most important city in Christendom, lasted until 1453. Many of the problems we face today, from the Balkans to Palestine are the still-reverberating echoes from the fall of Byzantium not Rome.

Alice Moore| 10.6.10 @ 7:53AM

No one in positions of power WANTS to learn from history. I think in every era there is a certain conceit. Their present is always the best and most enlightened time. The attitude towards the past is patronizing at best.

This attitude is present today in an exponential manner among the Ruling Class.

Paul D| 10.6.10 @ 9:39AM

Well put.

Ned| 10.6.10 @ 2:18PM

... and is clearly evidenced in the lofty heights at which Barry Bullsh*t, Boy Wonder President, holds his nose...

Albert| 10.6.10 @ 11:06AM

Another perspective would be that politicians today have learned the lessons of history very well indeed. Therefore what they do today would not be "repeating mistakes" but rather pursuing the same path to achieve the same results. The desired results for politicians are power, prestige, and money. And these they achieve regardless of what happens to the economy or the people. With high unemployment (and still rising), President Bozo is still cheered and admired by enthusiastic throngs. He is well provided for, living a lifestyle now and forever that he could never afford on his own. He is afforded great deference, great respect, great admiration, and a great position in the affairs of the World, all the better to satiate his ego. The more the people suffer and the greater the crisis, the greater the desire becomes for a "great hero" to "save us all", even if the "crisis" is manufactured and the "hero" is fake. The American people are made to suffer economically BECAUSE Democrats have indeed learned from history and pursue the same ends of power, glory, and riches. It is up to US, the American People, the Voters, to recognize these acts as mistakes, and not as career options for politicians, and then vote the bums out before it is too late.

Appleby| 10.6.10 @ 7:05AM

As fo private armies, I believe King Zero is arranging that, isnt he?

coal carrier| 10.6.10 @ 7:50AM

Yes. His civilian army is already in place. All he needs to do is supply them badges, side arms and nightsticks. The name will change from ACORN to the Peoples Police.

bob alou| 10.6.10 @ 9:48AM

Have you forgotten Americorp?

Paul| 10.6.10 @ 7:39PM

Local, state and Federal police will do as they are ordered. The only thing lacking is the manufacture of the color of law. Even the threat of the sub police organs is enough. EPA, OSHA.....legislature, judge and jury all in one. Any human nail of resistance that stands up will be made a welcome and useful example of.
Who, what family, small business can withstand being dragged through the courts? Obey, or poverty.

Ken (Old Texican)| 10.6.10 @ 7:47AM

Potkas,
Well stated. Our re-focus is west of the missisippi (heh, and east of the colorado river)
Appleby,
That private army/police force will always be severely outnumbered...by our oathkeepers in the armed forces.

Richard Baker| 10.6.10 @ 7:48AM

Remember, the Kenyan wants a National Police Force funded as well as the Department of Defense. A more blatant plea for a private army doesn't exist. Sic Semper Tyrannis.

Albert| 10.6.10 @ 11:10AM

President Bozo as Gaius Marius. Scary.

its me| 10.6.10 @ 5:17PM

I wouldn't mind a Marius - could do with another Aquae Sextiae in the MidEast about now - or the southern border.

More worried about a Cato-led Pompey.

Albert| 10.6.10 @ 6:53PM

Marius was a good administrator and leader, but he will forever be remembered for changing the Roman Army from one of landed men to unlanded, otherwise unemployed men whose loyalty to the Roman People would shift toward their own generals, effectivly making the Legions private armies. Caesar led such an army across the Rubicon. Before Marius, this would have been unthinkable. If it were up to me, I would simply deploy an infantry division to the Southern border. Anyone who wants to go South may do so. Anyone coming up North will have to show documents or turn around. This is really not difficult to figure out. We just need a President willing to do it. Any ideas?

Andrew B| 10.6.10 @ 8:13AM

I contend that not only will we not learn from Ancient Rome, we won't learn a thing from much more recent history. How long before the current crop of geniuses in Washington ram through their own version of the Smoot-Hawley Act?

Any society stupid enough to allow 1970's fashions to enjoy a renaissance will allow anything.

davelnaf| 10.6.10 @ 8:25AM

There are parallels between ancient Rome and the US. The author alluded to one of the biggest but did not flesh out the analogy. As we know First century Rome saw a spate of truly awful emperors. Caligula and Nero, as the author mentioned, topped the list, but there was also Tiberius and Claudius, both Claudians, as were Caligula and Nero. It would be impossible for the US to have presidents as egregious as the latter, but we have had our truly bad emperors in Clinton and Obama, both of whom were either preceded and/ or followed by one of the lesser evils.

A good president, like Reagan, is missed after years of mediocrity and ineffective leadership by his successors puts his presidency in its proper historical context. Although many of us were well aware of his leadership ability while he was in office his successors have given his administration a context that has enhanced his reputation. And if Reagan was sort of like our Julius Caesar or Augustus, then his successor was a Tiberius and his successor’s successor was Caligula (Clinton). Bush is the well-intentioned, but not-too-successful, Claudius prior to the reins of power devolving to Nero (Obama), who was proverbially oblivious—and still is—as Rome burns.

Finding rough analogies between the past and the present in an interesting exercise, but the point of this one is that the US will probably get better presidents in the very near future that will likely set things right after decades of mismanagement have brought the country to near crisis. History is one thing, but many people have to personally experience a bad president (or emperor) in order to make it far less likely that that particular history lesson is ever repeated again.

vtwin| 10.6.10 @ 8:45AM

what's wrong with you guys? President Obama is the very best you can dream of ever having. At last we got someone in th WH who can read and write! give him some slack and you'll be surprised...

Steve A| 10.6.10 @ 10:00AM

Oh, it's vtwin. Yawn.

Albert| 10.6.10 @ 11:20AM

President Bozo is not a dream. He is a nightmare. He is easily the stupidest person to have ever set foot in the White House. And that's assuming that even the estimable and incontinent Mr. Twin has visited the White House. As for giving President Bozo some slack, there is no more slack left to be given. He has used it all. And we as a nation are going bankrupt because of him. It is no longer certain that the USA can survive as a free nation, now that the Bush-Clinton-Bush-Obama team has wrought its havoc.

TR| 10.6.10 @ 11:46AM

Oh, vtwerp, you are just so funny!

Now get back on you Schwinn stingray and ride off. Your idiocy is not required further.

Bob S| 10.6.10 @ 1:26PM

If "vtwin" does indeed ride a Harley (which I doubt) it's probably of the vintage that used the old "knucklehead" engine. Kindred spirits, so to speak.

NavyBrat| 10.6.10 @ 12:05PM

Right. He needs a teleprompter to talk to a 6th grade class & stutters like a child when he doesn't have one, but, in YOUR opinion, he can "read & write." I guess feeble minds are impressed by feeble accomplishments.

Bob S| 10.6.10 @ 1:22PM

Well, we do know that he can read- a teleprompter, at any rate. As to the writing part, we can't be sure, since every attempt made to access his college work has been stonewalled. You get 50%, not a passing grade in any school of repute. As for slack- that's what a neighbor of mine's Basset Hound used to do frequently. Surprised- yes we are- at the callousness, fecklessness, and moral depravity that a fellow human being could sink to.

Bydand76| 10.6.10 @ 6:14PM

Yeah,

Thats why he released his transcripts from college right?

Oh .. wait.... sorry.

Pro Libertate

JmsA| 10.7.10 @ 12:42AM

vitwin,

Maybe the One can teach you that Medicare and Social Security projections are arrived at through actuarial analysis--based on statistics.

cynic1| 10.7.10 @ 12:11PM

vt lose... and how do we know that he can read and write... his educational records have been sealed ... and his law school records have been sealed .... by Ellen Kagan .. then the harvard law school dean at the time ... rewarded by a seat on the SCOTUS...

S.L. Toddard| 10.6.10 @ 9:00AM

vtwin, you moronic loser! I understand you like to post x-rated videos on this site, so check this one:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bsv6KP6by1Q
Kinda prophetic, isn't it?

Bob K.| 10.6.10 @ 9:51AM

If vtwin is posting x rated videos on this site as you state then why is he still allowed to post here?

But that is a question for the Editors who should be moderating these discussions, don't you think?

There are some limits with in the boundaries of civility. But then Caligula would not agree with that.

Perhaps Wlady and RET, Jr should look into this before Mr. Regnery finds this out!

S.L. Toddard| 10.6.10 @ 4:40PM

Not that it matters, but I didn't post that, as any moderator can tell you.

danny| 10.6.10 @ 9:06AM

vtwin, i agree with you. obummer can surely read. if it's on the teleprompter he can read it. lol as they say.

Thom Burke| 10.6.10 @ 9:21AM

Well, he can certainly read a teleprompter with the best of them, but after only two years, the country has heard enough. Regarding your misplaced esteem for Obama, the gifted author, that old communist reprobate, Bill Ayers, was the collaborator, ghost writer of his "books". Remarkable that anyone has the self absorbed gall to publish two autobiographies before have done anything.

Petronius| 10.6.10 @ 9:33AM

We don't have to go that far back. A parallel of Obama's type, one Ceaucesceu was deposed and eliminated not so long ago by a long suffering people in a once barbaric country called Romania.
And we well know, what Nikolai did to the Romanians, Barry wants to do to us.

canuckistani| 10.6.10 @ 2:28PM

BHO wants to ban abortion?

MAJ Mike| 10.6.10 @ 9:38AM

Whenever I think of the period of Rome's transition from Republic to Empire, I'm struck by the parallels in the succession of emperors. Augustus was popular, effective, honest and set a standard which subsequent emperors were, for the most part, unable to fulfill. Tiberius was also able, but weaker and lacked Augustus' sense of purpose and values. Caligula was a degenerate whose exploits were entertaining, and who was popular for his spectacles, but ultimately deposed due to his excesses. Claudius was seen as a fool, but proved to be prudent and much more capable than his predecessor and successor. Nero was a dissolute scoundrel who ignored his duties and literally played while the city burned around him.
I find this significant, because our succession of presidents roughly follows this line. Reagan, Bush 41, Clinton, Bush 43 and Obama. As Marx said after the coronation of Napoleon II, "History repeats itself, the first time as tragedy, the second as farce."

DRed| 10.6.10 @ 10:11AM

The Roman empire had 8 years of prosperity under Caligula?

Occam's Tool| 10.6.10 @ 12:29PM

It must be remembered that the Empire had a very good bureaucracy, and the machinations of court intrigue generally had nothing to do with the administration of government out in the provinces. But I believe Caligula still drained the treasury a bit.

DRed| 10.6.10 @ 3:12PM

Maybe Obama will appoint his horse as a senator. Probably couldn't make the senate any worse.

cynic1| 10.7.10 @ 12:15PM

But he did ... he did .... and his name was Burris... not as sexy as Incantatus ...but a horses a@@ nonetheless

potkas7| 10.6.10 @ 10:23AM

The transition from republic to empire actually begins a century before Julius Caesar with the Tribunates of the Grachhi Brothers. The Republican period arguably ends with Julius Caesar. From that point on the history of the Roman Empire is all about military government for the next millennium.

The first Emperor - Octavian a.k.a. Augustus - was probably the greatest. Under him the Empire reached its geographical high-point. At the critical point in the West, when the empire needed another man of over-weening ambition and single-minded purpose like Julius Caesar, it was instead ruled by history's only true Philosopher King: Marcus Aurelius. After him came the narcissistic buffoon Commodus whose reign begins Gibbon's classic The Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire. But it took almost 1500 years before the legacy of the first two Caesars had run its course - if it actually had. As I said earlier, the echoes are with us still.

Albert| 10.6.10 @ 11:35AM

Good points, all. Caesar effectively murdered the Republic in order to make himself the absolute ruler. Think Emperor Palpatine in the Star Wars Saga, who creates an unnecessary war in order to foment a artificial crisis, so that "extraordinarly measures" are needed to restore order. That's the Caesarean model. With absolute rule (as under Augustus), the problems do not show up UNTIL the sucessors prove themselves to be comparative failures. And therein lies the true problem: succession. Just because Augustus was a wise and prudent man, whose true concern was for the People of Rome, it does not follow that his successors will automatically be the same. There is no guarantee that Augustus would be followed by another Augustus, and he wasn't. The American Founders understood this failing of absolutist rule and made it illegal. The 10th Amendment the the US Constitution, the Supreme Law of the Land, prohibits the kind of powers inherent in an absolutist ruling system. But as we see today, and have increasingly seen since FDR, legal limits on power have no meaning unless the People are willing to vote the bums out.

ADM| 10.6.10 @ 12:35PM

There are a few errors in the article and the posting. The Roman Empire had a fairly well-developed welfare state before Diocletian came along. Septimius Severus did not say, "Pay the soldiers and everything else will take care of itself." He said, to his two sons, "Stick together, pay the soldiers and to hell with everyone else." Caracalla then proceeded to murder his brother, paid the soldiers and ignored everyone else. He ended up being assassinated.

The Roman empire reached its maximum geographic extent under Trajan, not Augustus. Marcus Aurelius, the philosopher emperor, spent most of his reign at war. He proved himself to be an extremely able general and was on the verge of conquering extensive territory north of the Danube when he died at his post of plague. His sense of duty and his commitment to waging implacable war against Rome's enemies made him very much the right choice for that critical moment. In contrast, the overweening personal ambition of his successors helped create the catastrophe that marked the Empire in the 3rd Century AD.

I am persuaded there are similarities between our country and the Roman Republic. But if we're going to use historical analogies, we should get the facts straight.

its me| 10.6.10 @ 5:22PM

Ahhh, Roman History a la Robert Graves.

'I, Claudius' is good fiction, reasonable television, but bad history.

Lazy Jack| 10.6.10 @ 11:15AM

Learn from history? Hah. Once upon a time we might have, but now...

Let's see what pour leader says about the greatness of our antecedents:

I cannot swallow whole the view of Lincoln as the Great Emancipator.
Barack Obama

Compare that to:

I think this is the most extraordinary collection of talent, of human knowledge, that has ever been gathered at the White House - with the possible exception of when Thomas Jefferson dined alone.
John F. Kennedy

It is not difficult to understand why this century seems destined to be a replay of an earlier one, perhaps the 13th or 14th.

Best,

Lazy Jack

www.thanksforthelaughs.wordpress.com

Stoic| 10.6.10 @ 11:51AM

56years ago when I was a freshman I learned that the "Diocletian Reforms" paved the way for feudalism. That seems to be the road we're on too.

NavyBrat| 10.6.10 @ 12:10PM

I know some of you have read this before, but I post this again for those who haven't:

The Philippics of Demosthenes and Cicero: Voices of Liberty from the Past
Posted by NavyBrat on Thursday, April 15, 2010 12:43:23 PM

The Philippics are perhaps some of the most historically important orations in Western civilization. The original Philippics were a series of letters and orations made by Greek orator & statesman Demosthenes against the encroachments & power grabs of Philip II of Macedon (Alexander's father). They were Demosthenes' attempt to awaken the government of Athens to the inherent danger posed by Philip's totalitarian power grabs. After Philip's death, it was Demothenes who sparked a full blown uprising against Philip's son and successor, Alexander. Without mercy or hesitation, Alexander dispatched his hatchet man, Antipater, to arrest Demosthenes. Rather than suffer the humiliation of arrest, trial, and use as a propaganda tool, Demosthenes took his own life. He was valiant & noble voice against the ever present threat of totalitarian usurpations that would have spelled the end for his country.

"Beware lest in your anxiety to avoid war you obtain a master."...Demosthenes

"Every dictator is an enemy of freedom, an opponent of law."...Demosthenes

"There are all kinds of devices invented for the protection of countries: defensive barriers, forts, trenches, and the like... But prudent minds have as a natural gift one safeguard which is the common possession of all, and this applies especially to the dealings of democracies. What is this safeguard? Skepticism. This you must preserve. This you must retain. If you keep this, you need fear no harm."...Demosthenes

The perhaps more well known Philippics came from one of the greatest orators, lawyers, and statesmen of all time, Marcus Tullis Cicero. Cicero is regarded by many to be one of the first examples of a conservative politicians in history. He certainly was one of the most elegant orators in the entire history of Rome, either the Republic OR the Empire. Cicero's Philippics were his series of orations decrying the usurpations of Julius Caesar, Mark Antony, and later, Octavian. The main focus of these barb laden yet eloquent orations (14 of them) is Antony. While the conservative faction to which Cicero belonged had more successes than that of Demosthenes, it eventualy suffered the same fate.

The murderers of Caesar, chiefly Brutus and Cassius, (Cicero was NOT involved with, though he approved of , Caesar's murder) were pursued by Antony shortly after the deed was committed. Antony & Octavian, who was named Caesar's son in his will, combined their forces & began the pursuit of the forces of Brutus & Cassius. They met at the battle of, ironically enough, Philippi. After the battle, with Cassius having committed suicide when his positions were overrun by Antony's forces, Brutus fled, later to end his life in the same way.

Cicero, in the meantime had been in exile. On December 7, 43 BC, Antony's assassins finally caught up with him & slew him. His last words, according to Plutarch, were said to have been, "There is nothing proper about what you are doing soldier, but do try to kill me properly." On Antony's orders, Cicero's head and hands were cut off and displayed in the Forum in Rome as a waring to those who might seek follow his example and take up his cause.

Shortly after Cicero's murder, the Roman Republic had effectively ceased to be and the age of the Empire had begun. And, like all empires, oligarchies, and absolutist systems of government, the Roman Empire came into being "with the consent of the people." Caesar had promised the Roman people untold amounts of public benefits and played the populism card with tremendous skill & aplomb. He subverted the law and the Roman Senate in ways that not many, other than Cicero, Brutus, and Cassius, saw. By the time of the civil war after Caesar's murder, the framework of Caesar's edicts were in place. After Antony and Octavian had declared a truce between themselves at the conclusion of their battle at Mutina, they combined their forces to crush those of Brutus and Cassius at Philippi. This was the beginning of the end of the Republic. The assassination of Cicero, a man loved and lauded by the Roman public, and by far the most powerful proponent of the Republic, was the final nail in the coffin.

The time we live in now is not all that dis-similar to that of Cicero, and to a lesser extent, Demosthenes. Both men railed against the stealing and usurpation of liberties and freedoms from their respective countires. In the case of Demosthenes, it was encroachement from outside his nation's borders. In the case of Cicero, as in ours today, the ecroachments come from within. Our Founders learned from these men and changed the track record of the success of such movements. They did not suffer the same fates as their ancient predecessors, and that was surely that fate that awaited them, had they failed.

So the question is simple. Do we posses, amongst our modern day population, those who can take up the same mantle as that of Demosthenes, Cicero, and our Founders? Are there any leaders amongst us who will sacrifice as much as these men did? Since our Founders showed us that it WAS, in fact, possible to espouse the same principles as Demosthenes and Cicero without sharing their fates, I still have faith that WE THE PEOPLE are still up to the task. We MUST be. The future of OUR Republic depends on it.

Excerpts from the First Philippic:

"Men ask, what is the reason why I, or why any one of you, O conscript fathers, should be afraid of bad laws while we have virtuous tribunes of the people? We ahve men ready to interpose their veto; ready to defend the republic with the sanctions of religion. We ought to be strangers to fear. What do you mean by interposing the veto? says he; what are these sanctions of religion which you are talking about? Those, forsooth, on which the safety of republic depends. We are neglecting those things, and thinking them too old fashioned and foolish. The forum will be surrounded, every entrance of it will be blocked up; ARMED MEN will be placed in garrison, as it were, at many points. What then?--whatever is accomplished by those means will be law. And you will order, I suppose, all those regularly passed decrees to be engraved on brazen tablets. 'The consuls consulted the people in the regular form,' (Is this the way of consulting the people that we have received from our ancestors?) 'and the people voted it with due regularity.' What people? that which was excluded from the forum? Under what law did they do so? under that which has been wholly abrogated by violence of arms? But I am saying all this with reference to the future; because it is the part of a friend to point out evils which may be avoided: and if they never ensue, that will be the best refutation of my speech. I am speaking of laws which have been proposed; concerning which you have still full power to decide either way. I am pointing out the defects; away with them I am denouncing violence and arms; away with them too!"...Marcus Tullius Cicero, The First Philippic

"Let him employ arms, if it is neccessary, as he says it is, for his own defence: only let not those arms injure those men who have declared their honest sentiments in the affairs of the republic. Now, what can be more reasonable than this demand? But if, as has been said to me by some of his [Antony's] intimate friends, every speech which is contrary to his inclination is violently offensive, to him, even if there be no insult in it whatever, then we will bear the natural disposition of our friend. But those men, at the same time, say to me, 'you will not have the same license granted to you who are the adversary of Caesar as might be claimed by Piso his father in law.' And then they warn me of something of which I must guard against; and certainly, the excuse which sickness supplies me with, for not coming to the senate, will not be a more valid one than that which is furnished by death."...Marcus Tullius Cicero, The First Philippic

"The more laws, the less justice."...Cicero

vtwin| 10.6.10 @ 12:14PM

ok ok ,I admit I sometimes post some kinky stuff just for the sheer fun of it, but you don't need to be so tight assed -no pun intended- and besides you ain't required to watch it lol. you started it when you made fun of my membership with the Frisco's Chapter of the Hell's Angels, even going so far as digging a picture from last year that was quite an embarrassment to me and suggesting I might be gay! That was MEAN. don't I deserve respect? where's the so called christian conservative compassion? or is the usual teabagger catch all gimmick? leave President Obama alone, he has to save a country from your ilk.

Occam's Tool| 10.6.10 @ 12:34PM

Vtwin,

Unlike you, as a board certified psychiatrist I have actually taken courses in and counseled/treatedpeople with sexual deviations. I've read and discussed at a graduate level Masud Khan's Alienation in Perversion.

I come to this site for the philisophic discussions. NavyBrat's discussion of the Phillipics, for example, was a welcome lunchtime respite from my day. Save your porn for another site, please.

NavyBrat| 10.6.10 @ 12:45PM

Occam's Tool:

I thank you for your compliment, my friend!

TR| 10.6.10 @ 2:08PM

A person earns respect. A person of your ilk does not deserve anything except a swift kick in the rear.

You make repetitive comments, you are disproved every day. You make inflammatory comments and act surprised when people come back at you. You display the behavior of a teenager, and I suspect that you are one.

You tell us how we should behave while behaving badly. You demand we leave president Obamao alone, while your ilk spent 8 years in unfounded destructive actions against GW Bush.

Oh, and it was MEAN to suggest you are gay. As usual, a double standard libtard. You love gays but get upset to be identified as one.

A picture embarrassed you. Well grow a thicker skin, bicycle boy. You can dish it out but, like the child you are, cry when it is dished back.

Go scurry home to mommy little boy. We are all wise to your idiocy and your worn out retread commentary. HuffPo or DailyKos is better suited to your irrational illogical childish "progressive" mind.

Paul| 10.6.10 @ 8:14PM

I admit I ( often hijack and ) post some kinky stuff just ( to insult, piss off ) for ( my )fun , but ( I, again, command ) you ( not ) to be so tight assed -no pun intended- [ pun? What pun? ] and ( more ) you ain't required to watch it lol. ( What a wit ) ( Crying begins..3,2,1......) you started it when you made fun of my membership with the Frisco's Chapter of the Hell's Angels( A collection of pathetic, sad cartoons, so what do you expect? ), even going so far as digging a picture from last year that was quite an embarrassment to me and suggesting I might be gay! ( You do seem online.... gayish ) That was MEAN. ( Gay ) don't I deserve respect? ( No. Also gayish ) where's the so called christian conservative compassion?( Compassion, respect. Two different words meaning different things. Sorry. English has different words for different things. You know, innocent or guilty, benign or malignet. It's an education thing, not nessailly formal. Stay away from anything requiring critical thinking. A hoist riggers license, machinery, navigation....) or is the usual teabagger catch all gimmick?( What? ) leave President Obama alone( he's from Chicago, grew up with Marxists, the Harvard hot houses. He can take it, your rescue delusions aside ), he has to save a country from your ilk. ( Teabagger? 'Ilk', and you want respect? Yeah, right. Keep digging )

Anyway , what are you here for? You don't add to anything. Seriously. You are clearly under educated, formally and casually. You don't care. At all. Not in any positive way. And yet you are here. Won't any place else have you?

ObamaSinLaden| 10.6.10 @ 12:29PM

vtwin, I think I'm going to be sick. Just the thought of you and your ...er friends riding a pink 74 in tight leather pants makes me puke!
Your Prez doesn't need a two bit twerp like you to save his butt, it's beyond saving.
What picture was it?
http://i19.photobucket.com/alb.....1286381979
http://flywithbats.files.wordp.....s_01-1.jpg

Pseudolus| 10.6.10 @ 12:41PM

The Flavian emperors were far better than the Julio-Claudians, particularly the first few. Much more concerned with the good of the State than with personal aggrandizement. Marcus Aurelius was very fine also.

Steve A| 10.6.10 @ 12:45PM

Pseudolus, Marcus Aurelius was at his finest when he chose Russell Crowe as his successor in Gladiatior. This is common knowledge.

Martin Owens| 10.6.10 @ 12:52PM

" Ongoing war with Persia in the East?"
Wow, some things truly ARE eternal...

Dave Williams| 10.6.10 @ 12:55PM

Don't feed the trolls.
Don't feed the trolls.
Don't feed the trolls!

Erronius| 10.6.10 @ 1:04PM

Steve A: Here at Amspec, something delicious, something suspicious, something for everyone, a comedy tonight!

Anommynous| 10.6.10 @ 1:13PM

But the Eastern Empire lived on for many centuries more. Eastern Emperor Justinian had success briefly recapturing much of the West (including Rome) and had a very good chance of accomplishing his goals until the Justinian Plague changed everything. But even so, the Eastern Empire survived for centuries yet, while the West fell into the Dark Ages.

Are the Blue States the Western Empire?

S.L. Toddard| 10.6.10 @ 1:34PM

Quote: "Are the Blue States the Western Empire?"
... or the East Coast?

S.L. Toddard| 10.6.10 @ 4:41PM

Good Lord - another stalker.

vtwin| 10.6.10 @ 2:43PM

gosh you guys really hate my guts :+( what a sorry bunch of bigoted bitterly clinging to their bible reactionaries! you just got no sense of humor. You just can't help insulting whoever is different. I could be gay, I mean "I could be" but it sure doesn't make me a criminal and, no I do not have to prove anything to deserve respect. you are prejudiced against bikers. can't we just get along for cristsake?

Tim*| 10.6.10 @ 3:55PM

We thought ya were a member of Dykes on Bikes .

Curtis Rasmussen| 10.6.10 @ 7:36PM

You don't have any guts to hate.

Elrond Hubbard| 10.6.10 @ 3:01PM

Actually you DO have to prove something to gain our respect. Try proving you're not an imbecile.

vtwin| 10.6.10 @ 3:19PM

do you realize if you guys had your way, you would send me to a concentration camp?
Bush lied, young men died. and you're ready to perpetuate that infamy.

George True| 10.6.10 @ 3:57PM

"Bush lied, young men died....."

That is precisely why nobody here respects you, Vtwin. You are never willing (able?) to engage in a real discussion of the the issues. All you ever do is throw bombs. You regurgitate the same old leftist talking points that we have all heard a thousand times. But not once have I ever seen you attempt to defend your assertions with facts and evidence.

In my experience, it is a rare leftist who will ever try to defend their views because they get destroyed by those pesky, inconvenient facts. Then, they simply start to call people names, because they cannot win the argument on logic. Once the ad hominem attacks begin, it is patently obvious that their argument is false on its face.

There is another commenter here who holds some strong leftist views, but I have a alot of respect for him because he does cite facts to support his argument. I think he cherry picks his facts much of the time, but his arguments are often thought provoking, and once in awhile cause me to re-examine my position

But you, Vtwin, just spout the latest Dem talking points without ever backing up anything you say. You will have to do much better than that to impress anybody here at TAS.

Tim*| 10.6.10 @ 4:02PM

Nah , we mean to see you hanged in Fort Smith at Judge Parker's convenience.

John II| 10.7.10 @ 11:13PM

I dunno, Tim*. Twitty's not really in the same league as Lucky Ned Pepper. Don't reckon Rooster would pay him much mind at all.

And now back to "True Grit" (1969). What a coincidence.

Petronius| 10.7.10 @ 2:20AM

For my part the poster with the call sign vtwin would be sentenced to a pre Vatican II Catholic parochial school. I won't put out the $5 to have it's nihilistic carcass baptized and renamed because it wouldn't be legit. All these schools are run by the St. Pius X Society which is in schism. But they do get old fashioned results.

cynic1| 10.7.10 @ 12:44PM

Concentration camps are a progessive/liberal/socialist/ communist thing .... ie ....Stalin, Hitler,Pol Pot, Mao... FDR, et al ...

krazy kat| 10.6.10 @ 3:48PM

No, we'd send you to summer camp---sports, swimming and canoeing, arts and crafts. Meet some kids your own age, make a ceramic ashtray for the parents. Who knows, maybe you'd actually learn something worthwhile.

TR| 10.6.10 @ 4:13PM

Stop feeding the vtwit troll.

He just says the same thing over and over. He uses the "concentration camp" crap about once a week, and uses the old worn out "Bush lied" taunt about the same.

He is a teenage pranker, and he will go away if ignored.

Tim*| 10.6.10 @ 4:25PM

Let us know when ya take your own advice .

TR| 10.6.10 @ 8:05PM

Yeah Tim, I'm guilty of letting him provoke me to respond, then I regret it almost immediately. When he starts his concentration camp crap, is when I realize we fed him too much again. I will make a serious effort in the future to simply ignore his nonsense.

vtwin| 10.6.10 @ 4:59PM

well,I'm outtahere and you won't read me for a while but I'll be back... You made me fee like shit and i hate that feeling,because i'm a valuable person, a human being with an IQ that was measured at 115. Considering what I've been through, it ain't not bad at all. You guys are just unable to fathom the full extent of my sadness. The only people who cared about me were teachers, bikers and social workers and those are the very people you guys would love to watch disappear into oblivion. where's my America?How come the most interesting things one can accomplish here are riding a HD Sportster, watching free porn and trying to connect with people? Occam's Tool, you touched a nerve, sure I would need some counseling, but not from your ilk, guys,not from you. Not after what Bush and Cheney did to us.

Tim*| 10.6.10 @ 5:43PM

Violins play a sad composition , as vtwin swings his leg over his Sportie and hangs his head when it fails to start .vtwin mutters a low curse , kicks his hog over on it's side and begins walking towards San Fran .

We hear vtwins' muffled swearing , as he shuffles down the road , "damned conservatives , damned Hog , shoulda bought a BMW..... "

BYdand76| 10.6.10 @ 6:20PM

Whatever...........

Paul| 10.6.10 @ 8:22PM

You couldn't be more online gayish if you tried.

What's this 'Bush/Cheney ' did to "us" crap? What did you do in the great resistance? Put a bumper sticker on your Prius?

You, the great moralizer, did nothing. Zero. Zip. Nada.

Supposedly you saw great evil, and you did nothing. And, now you are a online hero.

Pathetic.

cynic1| 10.7.10 @ 12:31PM

Wow ... vtwin ... thats a pretty high IQ .... not as high as GWB's (121)... but higher than Kerry's (106).... but Ill give kudo s to the three of you .... unlike your current hero .... you'all have made yours public

Steven| 10.6.10 @ 5:25PM

By the time of Diocletian, any similarities there may once have been between the US and Rome were gone. Obama's a very poor president, and Diocletian was one of the (slightly) above average emperors, but I'd rather have Obama running my country any day.
For my fuller response, see my blog: http://libraryof1985.blogspot......llels.html

vtwin| 10.6.10 @ 6:23PM

You can all eat cake and die.

TomB| 10.6.10 @ 6:47PM

vtwin, I lack Occam's Tool's qualifications, but did work in an addictions treatment center for several years. One of my colleagues, was fond of saying "How many people have to tell you that your a** is on fire before you check for smoke?"

Another one day shared that he was becoming increasingly annoyed at everyone: drivers, guards, people in line at the store...everyone. Then he observed "...I realized the common element in all of this was me."

So if you find that the world is against you, and it seems that no one understands your pain or appreciates your value, maybe you should take a moment to have a hard look at the common factor in all of your pain.

Or maybe you're just toying with us.

Paul| 10.6.10 @ 8:26PM

Max Flame Gay.

( No one likes a bitter, loser, crying hag. )

Tim*| 10.6.10 @ 8:54PM

Hey vtwin !

Like The Cake Said , " Bite Me " .

TomB| 10.6.10 @ 6:38PM

Even if they do learn from the past, distant or recent, is there any reason to believe that what they learn is correct? They look at the collapse of the Soviet empire and conclude that the paleomarxists didn't try hard enough, or weren't smart enough. The neomarxists are much smarter and can succeed with their superior communication skills. Or so they seem to think.

BackToBasics| 10.6.10 @ 8:55PM

from the article - "Rome as republic-morphing-into-empire lasted eleven hundred years, only truly crumbling in the last three hundred. Thanks to modern technology, we seem to be doing it much faster."

So true! We do not have 200 years as the article speaks of for Rome lasting after Diocletian. We have at the most 20 years to turn things around and many here would say we have only 2 years left in which to do it. I would not argue with that smallest figure either.

cynic1| 10.7.10 @ 12:37PM

And to you 'all ... except vtwin....great discussion .. my first time on the site .... and enjoyed it all ...

Steve B| 10.7.10 @ 1:18PM

The late John W. Campbell once said, "It's not that history repeats itself, it's that sometimes she screams, "Won't you ever listen to what I'm trying to tell you?" and let's fly with a club."

Annie Brown| 10.8.10 @ 3:13AM

The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again, but expecting a different result...

Scubbysteve| 10.8.10 @ 9:52AM

Obama-Llama simply needs to pull off a sucessful imitation of Julius Caesar.....than after 3-10 years of effective recovery, we can come back from the rediculous hole in the ground that Barry and his posse have dug for us. Oh yeah, and while I'm dumping.....let's abolish the pathetic Democratic party too !!

Tonius in Central PA| 10.8.10 @ 2:38PM

Actually, a rump of the Holy Roman Empire hung on until the First World War as the Austro - Hungarian Empire.
Obama isn't our nation's biggest problem. Our biggest problem is that we have a lazy, historically illiterate, entitlement - minded electorate who put him in office. Bread and Circuses anyone ?

Igor Caldeira| 1.11.11 @ 8:08AM

Diocletian did the same (but less) to the Christians than later Christian emperors did to the non-Christians.

But concerning the title of this text, isn't Bush much more alike? It was him that dragged the American budget from superavit to massive debt, through increasing military spending. I think that if the author was a bit less biased, he would change this title.