-
Soros Funds Anti-‘Torture’ Report
May 17, 2013 | 117 comments
-
Transsexual Flights from Reality
May 3, 2013 | 91 comments
-
State Funerals and Christendom
April 23, 2013 | 12 comments
-
The Hero of Star Wars
April 19, 2013 | 45 comments
-
Margaret Thatcher the Methodist
April 9, 2013 | 38 comments
The Nation's Pulse
Episcopal Bishops for Open Borders?
A strange experience in the Arizona desert.
Episcopal Church bishops are always susceptible to caricature, and their recent “pastoral letter” on immigration is no exception. The 2 million member denomination’s House of Bishops recently met in Arizona, the troubled front line for immigration controversies. About 60 bishops symbolically met near the Mexican border carrying white crosses representing illegals who had died locally of exposure while trekking through the desert. Later joined by another 60 fellow bishops in Phoenix, they seemingly urged a U.S. policy of virtual open borders.
“Ours is a migratory world in which many people move across borders to escape poverty, hunger, injustice and violence,” the bishops observed. “We categorically reject efforts to criminalize undocumented migrants and immigrants, and deplore the separation of families and the unnecessary incarceration of undocumented workers. Since, as we are convinced, it is natural to seek gainful employment to sustain oneself and one’s family, we cannot agree that the efforts of undocumented workers to feed and shelter their households through honest labor are criminal.”
Later in the bishops’ letter they approvingly cite border enforcement against migrating “drug traffickers,” “terrorists,” and undefined “other criminals.” But presumably everybody else in the world has an intrinsic right to move to the U.S. with full access to the social services offered to U.S. citizens. The bishops professed that “inhumane policies directed against undocumented persons (raids, separation of families, denial of health services) are intolerable on religious and humanitarian grounds.” Indeed, “our gracious welcome of immigrants, documented or undocumented, is a reflection of God’s grace poured out on us and on all.”
Like many Mainline Protestant elites who blithely have not yet realized their own cultural marginalization, the Episcopal bishops often conflate themselves and their own churches with America as a nation, including its government and culture. The Gospel commands the Church to offer its message ministry to all persons, from sanctified saints to incarcerated murderers. But the Gospel does not command the U.S. government, or any earthly civil regime, to offer universal hospitality.
Speaking of their experience in the desert, Episcopal Presiding Bishop Katharine Jefferts Schori chimed that “it will help us to reduce both our own caricatures and prejudices and maybe do the same for others.” It’s not clear to which “caricatures” she was referring, but likely it did not apply to negative caricatures about the defenders of Arizona’s attempted immigration law enforcement, which Arizona’s’ bishop naturally has denounced. The pastoral letter from the full House of Bishops darkly noted that “racism and bigotry impact debates over migration and immigration” and condemned any purported “racial profiling in the arrest of persons suspected of being undocumented.” But, of course, the bishops seem to oppose any immigration related law enforcement except when involving drug trafficking, terrorism or “other criminals.”
The bishops’ overall tone towards immigration was one of guilt and repentance for alleged national sins, not only for persecution of today’s illegal immigrants, but even for more longstanding historical injustices. After the march in the desert, Bishop Assistant Carol Gallagher of North Dakota told Episcopal News Service: “I’m aware that this was Mexican territory. The people haven’t changed, the border changed. The politics changed.” The House of Bishops’ accompanying “resource” document confesses to the Episcopal Church’s “past complicity in imperialist policies” by the U.S. Although not yet advocating that the Southwest U.S. be returned to Mexico, in a return to the pre-Mexican American War status quo, the Episcopal Bishops no doubt aspire to some endlessly ongoing reparation by the U.S. towards Mexico.
Although the bishops claimed they do not “discount the concerns of our fellow citizens regarding the danger uncontrolled immigration poses to our safety and economic well-being,” in fact they do. Essentially such concerns should surrender to a “broader context of a national commitment and covenant to inclusion and fellowship across all lines for the sake of the common good.” We must “remember that the good of a nation lies beyond its own self-interest, toward a vision of a humanity restored in Jesus Christ,” the bishops admonished, though typically it is only the U.S. that is called to self-denial, while other nations are portrayed mostly as aggrieved victims.
In their accompanying immigration “resource,” the bishops acknowledge a “national covenant” obliging the U.S. bishops hypothetically to respect their fellow citizens worried about law enforcement, social service costs, and job loss. But they seem to believe such national loyalties are subordinate to an undefined “common good that reaches beyond private interests, transcends sectarian commitments, and offers human solidarity,” according to a quote they employ from liberal United Church of Christ theologian Walter Brueggemann. Of course, the bishops do not consider the costs of unregulated immigration that are immeasurable materially. Nor do they ponder the potential negative impact on immigrants themselves and their originating nations.
Like most on the Religious Left, the Episcopal Bishops seem uncomfortable with national sovereignty in the political sphere, just as the Religious Left is often theologically uncomfortable with Christianity’s exclusivist truth claims, or the expectation of monogamy in traditional marriage, and the loyalties inherent to traditional families. Their vague political and theological universalism ultimately derides nearly all skeptics as bigots, while envisioning an unlikely and unappealing world without meaningful loyalties. A more traditional Christian understanding of the common good recognizes that universal love is only reached, if at all, incrementally through the particular attachments of family and nation. These Episcopal bishops, busy with desert photo ops and polemical news releases, are anxious to make sweeping utopian claims, without a clear constituency or audience.
About the Author
Mark Tooley is president of the Institute on Religion and Democracy in Washington, D.C. and author of Methodism and Politics in the Twentieth Century. You can follow him on Twitter @markdtooley.
Letter to the Editor View all comments (106) | Leave a comment
More Articles by Mark Tooley
More Articles From The Nation's Pulse
http://spectator.org/archives/2010/09/29/episcopal-bishops-for-open-bor
Follow us:
ADVERTISEMENT
Current Issue
- A President Loses His Power
- What’s in a Name?
- The End of the Castros?
SPONSORED LINKS
FLASHBACK TO: 1995
-
Pope Culture
A man of faith in a godless age is hitting Americans where it hurts.
-
Why the GOP Does Not, Like, Totally Suck
Mr. and Mrs. American Spectator Reader, let P.J. O’Rourke talk sense to your kids.
-
Dames at Sea
-
In the Absence of Guns
In Britain, defending your property can get you life.
-
The Metaphysical Martini
-
Counting the Costs of Clintonism
The debacle of this president’s administration is both a cause and a symptom of the decline of American values. Unless Congress impeaches him, that decline will go on unchecked. An eminent jurist surveys the damage and assesses the chances for the recovery of our culture.
-
Chuck McHagel
It won’t take long for conservatives to scratch this presidential wannabe off their 2008 scorecard.
-
The Legacy of Old John and Mother Fresh-Roasted
-
It’s the Best Time of the Year
The American Christmas, like the songs that celebrate it, makes room for everybody under the rainbow. Is that why so many people seem to be hostile to it?
-
The Bush Crack-Up
Was the President done in by the economy, or by the politics of the economy?
Clip of the Day
H/T to National Review Online
ADVERTISEMENT
John Daniel| 9.29.10 @ 6:28AM
Why does anybody pay attention to these clowns? The episcopal church is a withering irrelevancy.
RCV| 9.29.10 @ 11:59AM
Yes, imagine focusing their efforts on feeding and caring for the poor, the despised, the rejected of society. What are these Episcopalians thinking? Why don't they act like Jesus did? Wait......
John Daniel| 9.29.10 @ 1:10PM
Ah, the episcopal apologist...enough charity and sin becomes irrelevant. Takes both faith and works.
RCV| 9.29.10 @ 3:16PM
It does, indeed, John. It takes both.
dw| 9.29.10 @ 1:26PM
Why don't you put your money where your mouth is and go down to Mexico and reform the source of their poverty or are you too afraid to be executed.
RCV| 9.29.10 @ 3:15PM
I actually do go down to Mexico every spring with my (Episcopal) parish church and help with home building and other works for the people there.
RCV| 9.29.10 @ 3:43PM
I get my grass cutters & leaf rakers there .
RCV| 9.29.10 @ 4:17PM
Not mine, obviously - school's out again!
RCV| 9.29.10 @ 5:16PM
I'm also a coyote .
Anybody need cheap grass cutters or leaf rakers ?
dw| 9.29.10 @ 4:22PM
Then stay down there and fix the problem at its source once and for all. Stop blaming American citizens for wanting to take care of their own.
So every spring you go down and mingle with the down trodden and thereby placate your liberal guilt.
RCV| 9.29.10 @ 6:19PM
I'm not blaming American citizens at all - they're the most generous people in the world, and always there to help whenever there is a disaster anywhere. God bless them! Nor am I beset by guilt, liberal or otherwise, about the state others find themselves in. It's just nice to help other human beings once in a while. Try it some time - you just might enjoy the experience.
dw| 9.29.10 @ 7:15PM
It is only your arrogance that allows you to assume that you and only you are deep enough and altruistic enough to be charitaible. I would match my giving to yours any day. The difference is I do not feel the narcissistic need, as you do, to make sure everyone knows how pius I am.
What you and your ilk fail to understand is that free market economics helps more people than any government program could ever dream of by supplying opportunity and worthwhile employment to the multitudes thereby allowing a raised standard of living that benefits a maximized mass of people.
It provides a base of generated wealth that can then be used to help the less fortunate. It is the goose that lays the golden eggs and you and your socialist robots would rather destoy that and by doing so ruin the most successful engine of wealth creation that has ever existed.
No one will benefit if capitalism is destroyed, least of all the impoverished.
Stop living in the world of naivety.
RCV| 9.29.10 @ 11:45PM
First, I didn't volunteer the info. I was asked why I didn't go to Mexico if I wanted to help Mexicans, and simply replied that I did. Second, I 'm well aware that there are many, many people who do far more than I do to help others. Third, I'm not a socialist but a strong believer in free markets. You problem, dw, is that you see the world as either/or, black or white. It's not. It's complex and challenging, and if you guys ever ended up with real responsibility for governmental matters, God forbid, you'd find that out real fast.
Midwestnorwegian| 9.30.10 @ 7:00PM
By faith alone. Episcopagans are mortally doomed no matter what "deeds" they take on, because they preach against His Holy Word.
RCV| 10.1.10 @ 6:49PM
You must be a gem to have at a party.
EC| 10.22.10 @ 9:52PM
Oh, come off it. You have no clue as to "what Jesus would do." He never advocated that "every country except America has a right to control its borders." What utter tosh you spout. A Christian in the USA has an obligation to see to the peaceful, orderly repatriation of these trespassing, lawless, invaders. To aid and abet their actions is sin.
drgene| 9.30.10 @ 3:19PM
John Daniel:exactly right!!
But this is a women's movement in liberal
Episcopalians well as Roman Catholic
religious women communities. They seem
to say anyone has a RIGHT to migrate
because these women need work and/or welfare for their very large(irresponsible)families!
This right of the poor exists nowhere on the lips, or in the deeds, of Jesus!! Nor does real Christianity affirm these rights:invade, lie
(fraud),steal(welfare)kill(gangs)and breed
all in the name of LA RAZA!! These "ends" do NOT justify these means!
The USA ought engage in the fundamental Golden Rule of reciprocity: send all our poor, uneducated,and fecund to invade Mexico,
Guatemala,El Salvador and the affluent nations
like Singapore, Germany,Saudi Arabia et al.
Do to others what you want them to do to you--
if it's good for you, it's good for us!!
Booger| 9.29.10 @ 6:34AM
From the desk of the Very Right Reverend Mary Moonbeam Black Crow O'Shaunessy-Mitchell:
Dear Congregants,
It has come to my attention that we as a nation (although not we as a congregation if this might cause any offense to any of OUR faithful flock) that our fellow Americans are not as openly accepting of the huddled masses as we ourselves are. Indeed, on observing this phenomenon, I often offer a prayer of thanks to Gaia that I am not as this Baptist preacher across the street, who not only persists in his abominable screeds against abortion, but persists in having THREE (ugh!) children and driving a SUV. Clearly, many so-called "Christians" in our community have utterly failed to realize the eschatology of the Gnostic Gospels (copies of which you can find on the back table, in front of the tracts on separating paper and plastics in our recyclables) requires that we encourage a zero-growth population strategy. Of course we cannot be so racist, hegemonic and colonialist as to insist that our new arrivals from Mexico do the same; it is of the utmost necessity that we show the utmost tolerance for their cultural norms, regardless of how different from our own. Once again, in my daily meditation to the Great Wheel of Destiny, I give thanks that I am not like that Baptist blowhard across the street.
Of course, this leads naturally to my next topic: Fees for our landscaping service. I have been informed that Eco-Green Lawns, LLC, will be our new service provider for upkeep of the grounds. Although this provider has advised us they cannot provide the customary guarantee we have received in the past against pests and vermin, they will provide us with a guarantee that all their work is Earth Friendly, which is, of course, our primary concern. Just remember, should we actually have a visitor with children, we should remind them that the children should stay indoors since we cannot assure they would not be bitten by fire ants, ticks, chiggers, etc. Krishna only knows what our liability would be in such a case. Fortunately, I cannot remember the last time we had any children in this building. Once again, I thank Buddha we are not like those Baptists.
In regards to the question placed in my inquiry box: I do believe this is a hoax, but I will treat it seriously. No, our national obligation to hospitality to immigrants across our (illegitimate) Southern border does NOT mean that we actually have to allow them to live in OUR own houses. Please understand, and I am tired of repeating this, hospitality is a NATIONAL, not a PERSONAL obligation. The very thought of those hordes of sweaty brows, with all their snot-nosed children (ugh!). And yes, I am aware that the Baptist preacher across the street has actually taken a couple of their kids into his house and is trying to arrange for their education. Well, all I can say is I once again thank the Earth Spirits of Wicca that I am not as that Baptist.
May Our Non-Gender Specific Originator of Undetermined Origin Keep You in Its Care,
The Very Right Reverend Mary Moonbeam Black Crow O'Shaunessy-Mitchell:
unger| 9.29.10 @ 6:53AM
That was perfect. I will be laughing all day, thank you.
Salve Regina| 9.29.10 @ 9:26AM
Readers, please heed the word of our Lord God Almighty as He speaks to us through the Book of Leviticus:
Leviticus 19:33-34 (NIV)
When an alien lives with you in your land, do not mistreat him. The alien living with you must be treated as one of your native-born. Love him as yourself, for you were aliens in Egypt.
You lovers of Leviticus need to take these words to heart. Love the immigrant, and accept him kindly into your midst.
Leviticus is the Word of God! Respect these humane words concerning immigrants just as you respect the twisted verses that contain sexual admonitions.
In the name of God our Father, "love the immigrant and accept him kindly into your midst." Hallelujah! Praise the Lord!
You AmSpec readers need to follow God's word. Practice what you preach, for God's sake.
Amen
JP| 9.29.10 @ 11:35AM
"When an alien lives with you in your land,..."
Alien meaning foreigner who was invited to live in Isreal...believe it or not, ancient Isreal had borders, and did not welcome foreigners to move in and set up shop. They also had slaves and concubines. Do you suscribe to slavery and polygamy?
Salve Regina| 9.29.10 @ 11:50AM
Do I subscribe to slavery and polygamy?
No, but the Bible sanctions it, along with the subjugation of women.
Booger| 9.29.10 @ 12:32PM
SR 1: "Readers, please heed the word of our Lord God Almighty as He speaks to us through the Book of Leviticus:"
SR 2: "Do I subscribe to slavery and polygamy?
No, but the Bible sanctions it, along with the subjugation of women."
I believe I see the pattern here: SR wants to beat us over the head with her Bible as long as she agrees with what it says. If it says something with which she disagrees she wants us to remain silent on that part. Hence we see the true face of the religious progressive: Worship of Almighty Self.
Cordially,
Booger
Preacher Man| 9.29.10 @ 12:37PM
Your moniker is very telling about the kind of person you are.
Vulgar.
RCV| 9.29.10 @ 12:02PM
Thanks, JP, for your unique and completely new made-up definition of the word "alien". Talk about trying to twist the Bible to fit your political prejudices!
JP| 9.29.10 @ 3:44PM
MMmmm... Anceint Isreal wasn't actually a democracy; the Isrealites went to war with thier neighbor, practiced slavery, took property, etc... foreigners could not just enter Isreal, and set up shop. As a matter of fact, there were many requirements to in order to be a subject. The call to be "humaine" to aliens didn't infer "rights" or privleges to those who were slaves, who were not Hebrew, or who considered second class subjects. Just think what they did to adulterers, sodomites, and heretics.
RCV| 9.29.10 @ 6:21PM
You're so right. It was a backward society in so many respects: slavery, attitudes towards women, outsiders, homosexuals, lepers, just about anyone different. I'm glad we've progressed in so many respects since then.
belad| 9.29.10 @ 11:01PM
Ah yes...we have come a long way baby! We now live in a civilized society where the Romans confiscate tribute to be divided among the poor, each according to his need. That is after the Romans take what they feel is their tribute.
Give unto Caesar that which is Caesar's.....organized religion,.. that body which controls the great unwashed masses and conveniently enriches itself at the same time its telling its followers its their duty to help their lazy neighbor to the fruit their labor.
Booger| 9.29.10 @ 11:58AM
Leviticus has "twisted verses that contain sexual admonitions"? Oh, goody, found it right here:
"Neither shalt thou lie with any beast to defile thyself therewith: neither shall any woman stand before a beast to lie down thereto: it is confusion."
Leviticus 18:23, KJV (a REAL Bible).
Sounds like "Salve Regina" doesn't want us to "judge" his/her relationship with the family poodle.
Of course, twisted verses may just be what you get if you listen to a backwards recording of Dee Snyder reading the Bible.
Cordially,
Booger
xre432| 9.29.10 @ 12:40PM
Preacher man has you nailed, Booger.
You're vulgar, all right. And angry. And bitter.
Your tone reveals your true self, and it is ugly, ugly, just like your moniker.
Now, rave on.
Duo| 9.29.10 @ 12:45PM
Booger appears on this site quite regularly. When he has nothing to say (which is often), he says it anyway.
He's a tedious grouch living on the far periferies of the ultra right-wing planet of Bonkers.
Instead of castigating him, pity him. That's the Christian thing to do. We must practice Christian forbearance when reading these vile posts.
Madge| 9.29.10 @ 12:49PM
I agree, Duo.
Kindness is what we need more of. No need to counter rudeness with rudeness.
When I post, I let the Lord direct my thoughts, and when I do, my lips turn to sugar.
Just think of me "sugar lips." And thanks for reminding me of the concept of "Christian forbearance." Christians need to put this to practice.
Tyler| 9.29.10 @ 1:41PM
Yes Booger, you are so backward that you think the Word of God cannot be interpreted into whatever we want it to say. For shame!
I think the problem some people have with you is that your comments hit too close to home. You have my thanks, sir.
dw| 9.29.10 @ 1:36PM
I presume your house is full of the less fortunate and your backyard is replete with tents and other items necessary to support anyone who choses to subject you to their presence. And you have shared your finances to the point of personal poverty.
FTM| 9.30.10 @ 3:58AM
Welome to the immigrant, rejection for the invader. there's a difference.
Judith Warren-Brown| 10.19.10 @ 2:11PM
We as a nation have accepted immigrants into our midst historically. We are the most generous people on the planet, per capita, when disaster strikes others. However, no other people have a right to violate our hospitality by disregarding it. Mexicans are allowed into this country legally. That being said I do believe that people from Mexico that have been living here for a period of time and who have contributed to some entity's wealth should be given legal status. Also, I believe that children who were taken over the borders by their parents should be given citizenship if desired and be allowed to get an education. However, the borders need to be secured, and immigration needs to be legal and orderly which is respectful to us as a sovereign people.
Mary| 10.20.10 @ 11:14PM
The citation from Leviticus advocates you treat aliens as you would treat natives, yet how do you treat US citizens? How does presiding bishop, Jefferts-Schiori treat US citizens, how does she advocate they be treated? Given that you and she are indifferent to, and rationalize the discrimination against US citizens in their quest for the work they need to keep a roof over their heads and food on their tables. When you cold heartedly shrug your shoulders and infer that we should ignore the realities.. just how exactly are you, the presiding bishop and her fellow uncaring, hypocritical wolves in sheep's' clothing, acting in a humane manner?
What's more, when the wealthy man came to Christ, and asked Him how he could achieve salvation, Christ didn't say, go home, displace your poor citizen neighbors, replace them with cheap foreign labor, so you could increase your wealth. He advised him to make the personal decision to give away all he had.
I know for a fact that in spite of the advocacy of the presiding bishop, that all in the US must suffer and give everything away to the MDG's, she has not only NOT given any of her personal wealth, she's decided that TEC will not give any of it's resources to aid to poor nations, or even aid to the poor, so she can continue to live a luxurious lifestyle, and sue break away parishes who reject her violation of scripture and Christ's teachings.
Christ also admonished us to respect the rule of law, and the US is a sovereign nation. He would not support advocacy that deliberately sought to displace poor US citizens, and encouraged foreign nationals to not only flout our laws, but to be duped into a sense of entitlement to hate, to develop and perpetuate racism against US citizens, black and white, as well as stealing their livelihoods and causing them harm. That is leading them to sin.
The Episcopal church leadership is not acting in a way that could even remotely be considered Christian. It's advocacy is hateful, and abusive, they act like petulant children, who seek to despoil whatever they get their hands on.
EC| 10.22.10 @ 9:56PM
Hogwash. Leviticus doesn't speak of an illegal alien, one who commits trespass. Nor does the Bible grant sweeping economic rights, in the secular order, to anyone. However, if you are really interested in Leviticus, and not simply throwing the Bible in our collective face, the Mexicans *could* lawfully be enslaved. Still wanting us to follow God's word? Idiot.
Nate W.| 9.29.10 @ 2:16PM
Bravo, Boogs. People wouldn't be as upset as all the self-righteous comments show if you weren't hitting on some truths. For example: have you ever asked a leftist clergy...um...person to say that Krishna (or Wicca, Scientology, etc) isn't true?
Jim| 9.29.10 @ 8:08AM
Well, at least they don't support terrorism and murder. They may be clueless but they are preferable to Islam, which is totally hostile to our Constitution and freedom.
Insight| 9.29.10 @ 8:54AM
If these Bishops really want to help the mexicans, why don't they move to mexico (just walk across the border like they do) and work their magic down there!
RCV| 9.29.10 @ 12:03PM
Because they want to care for those who are poor, hungry, despised and living among us, just like the Bible tells us we should.
David W| 9.29.10 @ 12:44PM
No. It is because it is easier to complain from the comfort of their homes. Perhaps if they were to go to those countries that are forcing their citizens to seek a better life and try to improve their condition there (which is I believe what Insight was suggesting) then there would be no need for them to seek better conditions here. However, we know it is easier to curse the darkness (or American citizens) than to light a candle (change the countries of their origin – seeing as it may get them killed or locked away).
RCV| 9.29.10 @ 12:56PM
David, I'd be happy if you're truly interested to fill you in on the extensive good work done by the Church's Episcopal Relief and Development, to which I contribute regularly.
jrjr| 9.29.10 @ 4:27PM
What exactly have you contributed toward? Do you think that trillions of dollars is too few to send to help the poverty, for example. Yes or no? Either way it is a gotcha. We in the US have pumped trillions into the poverty since the nitwit LBJ conjured it up from hell. Now, only 1 in 7 (probably false information) is living in liberal defined poverty. That poverty no doubt includes a TV much larger than mine and I can afford to pay for a much larger one. Why do they need a TV? They have air conditioning? Is that cheaper than a fan or two? Find friends to cry about the problem.
snappydoozy| 9.29.10 @ 3:48PM
Well yes, cursing is easier than lighting, but there's not reason not to do both. We can curse those who demand we gve our country away to any one who walks and demand it, but we can at the same time turn over the rocks and expose the parasites hidng under the name of a god and religion they demonstrably no longer believe. The creed preach here is one of those which has much less truth than honest doubt.
Big Leo| 9.29.10 @ 2:14PM
What is compassionate and loving about taking away jobs from those Americans least able to compete in the job market? Do you suppose all these low pay jobs are brought in on the backs of the illegal immigrants?
Ken| 9.29.10 @ 9:01AM
"The people haven't changed, the border changed."
A popular rallying cry among the amnesty crowd, and a historical falsehood.
The demographic profile of the territory that later comprised the states of New Mexico and Arizona prior to their annexation by the US (through treaty and purchase) showed the predominant ethnicity as American Indian, followed by settlers from the United States who vastly outnumbered the few Hispanics.
Mexico itself was not an independent country until 1822.
Not only is the claim historically inaccurate, but in its complete dismissal of the presence of the Navajos, Apaches, Hopi, Zuni, and Yacqi inhabitants, it is overtly racist.
Mary| 10.20.10 @ 11:19PM
True, Ken. What's more, history shows that the ancestors of those Mexicans actually enslaved, raped and murdered, Navajos, Utes, Apaches and other native peoples. When those native peoples attempted to defend themselves or their loved ones, they were maimed or shot.
ncatty| 9.29.10 @ 9:20AM
If you regard national sovereignty and nation-states as an outdated concept, then the position of the Bishops is perfectly natural. Arguing with the Bishops and like-minded folks about distinctions between "illegal" immigrants and those "just seeking honest work" is a waste of time.
Dan Hirsch| 9.29.10 @ 9:35AM
Remember, the Episcopalians are the Anglicans (Church of England) in America. They're sort of like unrepentant Tories - of course they want open borders, they're still trying to get us back under King George. HeeHaw!
Redstateboy| 9.29.10 @ 9:36AM
God made Man stewards of this Earth and if these Bishops wanted to repay God.. they should start by picking up all the Garbage at the Mexican Arizona border.
Citizen Jerry| 9.29.10 @ 10:08AM
The Episcopal Church gets involved in politics because that's all it has left. Giving them two million members is a bit generous, because this denomination is dying. They deny "the faith once given." Those parishes that still read the Nicene Creed don't believe its words.
It's a sad ending for the once noble church to which I used to belong. But they brought this on themselves. Icabod. The glory has departed.
JP| 9.29.10 @ 11:31AM
"After the march in the desert, Bishop Assistant Carol Gallagher of North Dakota told Episcopal News Service: "I'm aware that this was Mexican territory. The people haven't changed, the border changed. The politics changed." "
Actually, it was Mexico's for only 40 years. Perhaps the Progressives's would like parts of Pommerania, Silesia, and East Prussia returned to Germany? Heck, we can play this game forever. Arizona no more belongs to Mexico than East Prussia belongs to Germany.
ABNCP| 9.29.10 @ 11:43AM
Having recently returned from a trip to my wife's
hometown, Northampton England, here are some observations: My wife and I were married in a C. of E. Church ( built by the Knight Templars in 1100 A.D.). At that time 1961, the Church was a vibrant part of the town. While we were there we went back to visit the Church. The congregation is now about 60 people all of whom are over 60 years old. The Vicar is now responsible for maintaining and providing services for three Churches since none of them are really attended by more than a handful of people. The Church of England has become a bad joke in todays England.
It has, due to the same insane stewardship that has taken place in its American equvalent the Episcopal Church. It is the same story, when Progressives take control of anything their left-wing Marxist philosophy always puts them at odds with anyone who has the slightest atom of common sense. They always make their decisions based on emotion, the feel good principal, the bleeding heart syndrom. The fact that in most cases the results are destructive to society means nothing to them so long as they feel warm and fuzzy about themselves.
Walkthetalk| 9.29.10 @ 11:53AM
You can group in with the Episcopalians the Evangelical Lutherans (ELCA), Methodists, Presbyterian/Wesleyan, Congregational/United Church of Christ, and of course the Unitarian Universalist. You can also include in this left-behind group all the churches affiliated with the World Council of Churches. You may have not yet abandoned your church, but it may have abandoned you. Be careful out there.
To Sister Salve Regina, you need to read www.christforamericans.com It will put Leviticus in spiritual context for you. The Bible is far richer than most modern churches know.
FTM| 9.30.10 @ 4:07AM
You forgot the Disciples of Christ hurch in your list. Political, social and nviro-mental activism, agitation and advocacy replaced the Gospel of Jesus Christ years ago. The Disciples don't have ministers they have shamen and I guess, Shawomen.
fundamentalist| 9.29.10 @ 12:07PM
I'm a fundamentalist Baptist, and I agree with the bishops. National sovereignty does not mean that the state can control every aspect of everyone's lives. There are God-given limits to state power. The state should not have the power to tell people where they can live.
As as a matter of Biblical history, Israel did not invite strangers to live in the nation in the OT. People had a natural right to live where they wanted to and that right extended up to the emergence of the nation state in Europe a few hundred years ago. The major change in thinking is the result of socialism. With increasing socialism, people realized they can't support all of the poor in the world, so they have to limit the poor who come to this country.
The arguments against open borders are weak. What about criminals? They are a tiny, tiny portion of illegal immigrants. Attack criminals. Don't apply group punishment to all illegals. A great deal of crime among immigrants results from the fact that they are illegal and won't cooperate with the police. Legalize the illegals and watch crime rates among them fall.
What about education and healthcare? They're socialist programs. Get rid of them and let charity do the work then there would be no problem with immigrants.
What about jobs? Illegal immigrants are a boon to any economy if you understand economics. Make them legal so they can pay taxes.
What if when the Berlin Wall fell the West Berliners put it back up to keep the poor East Berliners out? We would find that disgusting. But we are doing the same with poor people to the South. We want to rebuild the Berlin Wall along the Rio Grande.
wolflen| 9.29.10 @ 1:48PM
finally... someone who understands the value of slavery....
legalize all crime and watch the rates fall...i hope you don't have doors on you home...stop reading your bible and leave your church...it has destroyed your soul...
Senor Mick| 9.29.10 @ 12:33PM
Well, if you don't support open borders, then you just plain don't like Jesus!
Do it the legal way| 9.29.10 @ 6:07PM
Senor,
You do not like Jesus or know Him.
The open borders, and particularly the areas in Arizona, have been responsible for untold tons of drugs and untold numbers of thugs being brought into this county.
I work in law enforcement and know first hand of the problems that our open border has had upon this nation. I am sure that I do not know the half of the problems caused by the lack of control at our border.
I recently viewed pictures of the dismembered bodies and the murdered Mexican officials that these drug cartels are responsible for.
Why do they do these terrible things?
Power, money, ...
Woops, got to go, I will post later.
KyMouse| 9.29.10 @ 1:15PM
One way liberal churches are moving their congregations toward acceptance of "open borders" is through the Belhar Confession. As the Ecumenical Press web site reported a few days ago:
"Drafted in 1982 in apartheid-era South Africa, the Belhar Confession is a statement focused on the themes of justice, unity and reconciliation.
"Among other things, the confession says its purpose and lasting hope is 'that the world may believe that separation, enmity and hatred between people and groups is sin,' and it rejects any doctrine maintaining that racial or ethnic 'descent or any other human or social factor should be a consideration in determining membership of the church.'"
"Separation," "social factor" -- get it?
Presbyterian Church (U.S.A.) congregations are frequently required to recite the Belhar Confession during worship services.
Another thing to watch out for: I recently heard a PCUSA preacher use the parable of the vineyard workers (in Matthew 20) to promote equal pay (therefore, equal rights) for illegal aliens.
sickntired| 9.29.10 @ 2:11PM
This is what happens when a woman is allowed to speak. Like Eve who allowed satan to have his way, then infected Adam. I will not play the part. That is the cross the church will have to bear for allowing the ordination of women.
Walkthetalk| 9.29.10 @ 2:43PM
For decades the liberal churches have been “Re-imagining God” and redefining biblical concepts such as sin. As KyMouse stated sin is now hating other groups, and as John Daniel said sin actually becomes irrelevant. Yes, liberals blur the meaning of the Bible, confuse the people and redefine the terms to suit themselves. “Self” is the real focus of liberal churches, not God. In the garden of Eden Eve was approached by the friendly neighborhood serpent and beguiled into doing what God said not to do. Her biggest problem was that she didn’t even seem to know what God had said not to do. That is the biggest problem of most so-called Christians. They trust their church leaders to teach them, even though they are products of liberal seminaries. People must read their own Bibles, and learn what is truth. Well, what did Eve want that the serpent promised? Godhood! Now, count the number of churches that say you can become gods, or who say we all can build heaven on earth by ourselves (act like gods). That is the message of all the churches of the left. Utopia – a place where there is no borders, where there are no haves/have nots, where all are equal, the place they say Jesus would have instituted if he could have lived. Now it’s up to the liberal church to make the unfinished work of Jesus happen. It’s the place where self can flourish without guilt. In Utopia there is no sin, eat, drink and be merry. Yes, liberal Christianity is just like Eve, deluded. Now – will those who know the truth submit to the beguiling lies of liberal Christianity, and its leadership?
Petronius| 9.29.10 @ 7:11PM
Before getting turfed out of my last parish, Our lady of Perfect Political Posturing, I was on the receiving end of a homily describing the virtues of the impoverished invaders of Our Country in comparison to the "cold, unwelcoming attitudes" they experienced, "and what response we would get if we crossed their borders..." So I collared Father Fleawit and asked him if he was familiar with the native Mexican retort, " Yankee Go Home!" Father was unaware that those words are the Claim by Mexicans to the western half of the United States once ruled by Spain until 1803. I then challenged him to renounce his American citizenship and swear fealty to His Most Catholic Majesty Juan Carlos.
There is a disused weigh station on I 55 south of here that the coyotes use as a break point. You can tell if a truck load of illegals is on their way to Chicago whenever there are milk jugs full of urine left there. So I took a picture of a bunch of them and put it in my last collection envelope along with a note stating that since the state was taxing me to clean up their mess, he wasn't getting a check this week. We parted at odds.
belad| 9.29.10 @ 11:20PM
The reason I decided that organized religion was in fact not doing God's work or following Jesus' example, was because they all claim that if you don't believe what they believe you will go to hell.
I thought that having a relationship with God was a "personal" relationship and it was through discerning the word of God through studying His word, not by listening to someone else tell me what I'm supposed to believe.
These self-serving theocrats are sending up flares so they can be lavished with words of praise by another bunch of self-serving lemmings.
Irish22| 9.29.10 @ 2:16PM
The church's charity work has been rendered irrelevant by socialism. Jesus refused to make bread from stones, but politicians take up the Devil's challenge . . .
RCV| 9.29.10 @ 3:12PM
...but Jesus didn't stop you from sharing the bread you have with those who have none.
JP| 9.29.10 @ 3:54PM
Pleeeeeeeeeeze RCV,
Drop the strawman. And who made you Lester Summerall? And I don't see any Episcopal Bisops or priests giving up 50% of thier six figure tax free income. All of thier "good works" is derived from endowments set up decades ago by guilt ridden wealthy WASPS.
RCV| 9.29.10 @ 6:12PM
ALL the Episcopal priests and bishops I know -- and that's a long list -- give a substantial portion of their income (way above the tithing level) to charity. As a group, they're the most charitable people I know. I'm not sure your slurs have much factual basis to them.
RCV| 9.29.10 @ 6:15PM
ALL the Episcopal priests and bishops I know -- and that's a long list -- give a substantial portion of their income (way above the tithing level) to charity. As a group, they're the most charitable people I know. I'm not sure your slurs have much factual basis to them.
belad| 9.29.10 @ 11:30PM
Ahhh....but if you look a little closer, and past your nose, Jesus didn't demand that you had no choice about being charitable.
When religious moires and actions get co-opted by government fiat, choice is no longer an option. Charity is should not be a function of the government, just like the Church should not try to dictate foreign policy.
James Clark| 9.29.10 @ 2:57PM
So much for attending an Episcopal service. Would be a waste of time.
Jim| 9.29.10 @ 8:30PM
Among the millions of infiltrators who have walked across the Mexican border, how many are actually Islamic terrorists?
Anthony| 9.29.10 @ 8:31PM
The Episcopal church is no longer a Christian church, their embrace of homosexuality(clearly forbidden in the New Testament), makes them a gathering of individuals under a roof, not a Christian church. When they try to cite Jesus Christ as their authority, they are very simply lying. They should enjoy their popularity with the commies and the MSM and the wiccans and the rest of their brethren, they'll be seeing a lot of them in the next world.
RCV| 9.29.10 @ 11:55PM
Enlighten me, Anthony, where Jesus ever said one word - one - about homosexuality. And don't cite me letters written by Paul, a man of his time. I don't place him on Christ's level; he's human, not perfect. The sins Jesus focused on were self-righteousness, indifference to the poor, materialism and religious hypocrisy -- all things we see plenty of on this site and in the Christian/political/right. I'll take the Episcopal Church any day in it's fealty to the message of the Gospel.
FTM| 9.30.10 @ 4:20AM
Greetings RCV, long time, no yak.
Jesus said that he did not come to do away with the law but to fulfill every jot and every tittle. The law says that if a man should lay with a man as a man lays with a woman that they are an abomination, that their blood shall be on their own heads.
Now, like I've said to you before, what these people choose to do is their own business and none of my own. I will qualify the statement though by saying to you what my pappy used to tell me when I was a kid growning up, "they can do as they please, hell ain't even half full yet."
If one accepts salvation through the body and blood of Jesus Christ then you are absolved of sin by blood sacrifice, according to the Old Testament law. If not you are subject to the whole of the law.
Rebellion is rebellion.
RCV| 9.30.10 @ 2:31PM
FTM, you know darn well you don't follow OT law to "every jot and tittle" -- and neither did Jesus. He sat and ate with those who OT law forbid Jews from eating with; he did not rest on the Sabbath, to the consternation of the hypocritic rabbis. God came to earth in the form of the Saviour precisely to tell mankind that we'd gotten it wrong: we were following the Law "to every jot and tittle" and not loving our neighbors or God. Did you miss that overriding message in the Gospel?
FTM| 9.30.10 @ 4:37PM
No, I didn't miss that message in the Gospel. I will tell you however, my opinion only, based on intensive study mostly on my own reading the Bible and numerous commentaries on individual books of the Bible and so on, that God requires (demands) blood sacrifice for sin. Blood sacrifice to atone for sin. I don't know why, I am not aware of a justification for the requirement for a blood sacrifice for sin in the Bible or in any Biblical commentaries. Jesus, the Christ, the only son of the Almighty God is the absolute and final blood sacrifice. Jesus atoned for my sin on the cross. This final blood sacrifice is a free will gift from the Almighty God to all of mankind. I might add a rebellious mankind. If you accept this freewill gift then you are free from the Old Testament law. If not you are subject to the whole of the Old Testament law.
Now, that's the way that I see the situation. You may see it differently and that's fine with me. You must form your own concept of salvation, there's nothing that I can do to effect your spirituality. I would inject that there is a really, really stiff penality for getting the concept wrong. The way that this spiritual education thing works is by participating in a discussion as we are now. I listen respectfully to your commentary as you listen respectfully to mine, sorry, it's the Disciples mentality, with any luck at all we both come away from the discussion with a new and broader perspective of the discussion. Failing that we can come away from the discussion with a better understandingh of each other.
No one can live to the letter of the law, that is why Jesus is so critically important. Otherwise you are subject to the law, every jot and every tittle.
RCV| 9.30.10 @ 4:56PM
Thanks, FTM. I enjoyed reading your thoughtful commentary. God bless, and be well.
FTM| 9.30.10 @ 5:51PM
You too brother. Peace.
KyMouse| 9.30.10 @ 10:07AM
RCV, God clearly says in the Old Testament that He forbids homosexual lust and acts. Since Jesus is God (along with His Father and the Holy Spirit), that prohibition came from Him.
If you deny what Paul says, you deny that he was writing under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit. All Scripture is "God-breathed," according to 2 Timothy 3:16. You cherry-pick the parts you like, and toss aside the parts you don't like, at your peril.
RCV| 9.30.10 @ 2:36PM
You're using Paul's own letter to tell me that I ought to regard Paul's words as God's? I don't. The Epistles were written well after Christ left the earth. The decision to call them "scripture", as if they were on a par with the Gospels or Prophets was made by a Church council. Do you believe church councils are infallible? I don't. That's onee of the reasons I left the RC church. As I said above, the Gospel tells us that Christ sat and ate with non-Jews even though the Law proscribes doing so. Do you think you have a better sense of what God thinks with respect to the proscriptions of OT law, which were in a covenant with the Jews, than Jesus does? Do you, KyMouse, follow every proscription in Levitticus?
Carbon Dioxide| 10.2.10 @ 1:04AM
2 Timothy 3:16 : "All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness," I regard that as authoritative.
Now, RCV, after beginning my reply I became aware this might be another section of scripture you have decided to disregard. That is your free choice, however, you commit a monstrous error in attempting to separate the God from his Holy Word by sitting in judgment, in this case, of an author of scripture. That way of handling scripture is the reason liberal theology is not Christianity.
RCV| 10.2.10 @ 1:16AM
The "Scripture" Paul was referring to in his letter to Timothy was the Old Testament. You haven't answered my question of why you equate the personal letters of Paul with "Scripture"? Because some Roman Catholic council decided hundreds of years later to do so? Do you listen to the Pope's encyclicals? What's the difference? Use the brain God gave you.
Carbon Dioxide| 10.3.10 @ 1:48AM
No, I do not listen to the Pope.
In church history there is a view that the Roman Church response to the Reformation was the Council of Trent. In order to justify what had been going on (departure from scripture, abuses, indulgences, holding human actions necessary in salvation[Christ's redeeming work not sufficient], and other heresies) this council, I understand, rolled some extras into the bible after the canon was closed. In that sense I think your skepticism is well-founded. People often get angry when they realize they have been misled, where the truth has been suppressed. Especially if you identify the whole of Christianity and the Roman church as one and the same, where Roman claims about maybe the first 300 years of Christianity are questionable. The operations of the Roman church viewed from outside of it is another story, maybe a distraction from more important things like faith in Christ which redeems us from the penalty for our sin.
A section of a book I have which deals with the canon of scripture might be helpful. See Wayne Grudem's Systematic Theology, the complete version. There are other systematic theologies, but this is the one I have read. Like every author of scripture, every council member you refer to, and you and I, this author is another sinner. You can call him up and ask questions. Sinners is all God has to work with here on earth.
Carbon Dioxide| 10.3.10 @ 1:51AM
Sinners are all God has to work with (oops).
RCV| 10.3.10 @ 12:53PM
Enjoyed reading your post, but...it doesn't address the basic question of why we should accord the words in letters of Paul a status equal to that of Scripture, something Paul never claimed for himself.
Dore| 9.30.10 @ 1:33AM
The Episcopal Church has clearly become a political organization and as such should loose their tax exempt status.
RCV| 9.30.10 @ 9:23PM
Unlike all those evangelical denominations, which have kept their noses out of politics, right?
Yosemeti Sam| 9.30.10 @ 2:20AM
" ... We must "remember that the good
of a nation lies beyond its own self-interest,
toward a vision of a humanity restored
in Jesus Christ," the bishops admonished...."
Then, um - there's no reason for the Second Coming.
Why, these spurious ' bishops' have everything in
cogent perspective and there's no reason for an
'outsider' to - meddle with Earths' outcome!
Right?
Right?
And, BTW, which name-saked Apostle(s) were the PC-installed 'bishoped' females named after?
Yo, Rome - where's your voice on this twilight zone circumstance?
rodeoamy| 9.30.10 @ 9:50AM
Noble creatures. Bet they all drive a Prius.
Jeremy Stevens| 9.30.10 @ 11:46AM
It would appear that a whole new generation of Episcopal bishops is being "formed" even as we debate. One of the "formation centers" is Episcopal Divinity School in (where else?) Cambridge, Massachusetts. Even around these parts, it's commonly referred to as "Lesbian Divinity School."
A sermon by its current, unanimously appointed President and Dean, the Rev. Dr. Katherine Ragsdale, is worth pondering, especially by the Episcopalians who have posted on this thread berating the rest of us for not "doing what Jesus would do." How do you all imagine Jesus might respond to these thoughts coming from someone entrusted with the formation of future clergy?
Rev. Ragsdale said:
"When a woman finds herself pregnant due to violence and chooses an abortion, it is the violence that is the tragedy; the abortion is a blessing.
"When a woman finds that the fetus she is carrying has anomalies incompatible with life, that it will not live and that she requires an abortion – often a late-term abortion – to protect her life, her health, or her fertility, it is the shattering of her hopes and dreams for that pregnancy that is the tragedy; the abortion is a blessing.
"When a woman wants a child but can’t afford one because she hasn’t the education necessary for a sustainable job, or access to health care, or day care, or adequate food, it is the abysmal priorities of our nation, the lack of social supports, the absence of justice that are the tragedies; the abortion is a blessing.
"And when a woman becomes pregnant within a loving, supportive, respectful relationship; has every option open to her; decides she does not wish to bear a child; and has access to a safe, affordable abortion – there is not a tragedy in sight -- only blessing. The ability to enjoy God’s good gift of sexuality without compromising one’s education, life’s work, or ability to put to use God’s gifts and call is simply blessing.
"These are the two things I want you, please, to remember – abortion is a blessing and our work is not done. Let me hear you say it: abortion is a blessing and our work is not done. Abortion is a blessing and our work is not done. Abortion is a blessing and our work is not done.
"I want to thank all of you who protect this blessing – who do this work every day: the health care providers, doctors, nurses, technicians, receptionists, who put your lives on the line to care for others (you are heroes -- in my eyes, you are saints); the escorts and the activists; the lobbyists and the clinic defenders; all of you. You’re engaged in holy work."
Abortionists as Saints. Remarkable.
Tex Expatriate| 9.30.10 @ 3:47PM
Way up top John Daniel noted that the Episcopal Church is a withering irrelevancy. Quite right. It has made itself so though its liberalism.
FTM| 9.30.10 @ 4:50PM
I wanted to pitch in the following:
If you attend a liberal church like I do. If you attend a church where the gospel is rarely or perhaps even not taught, you have three options before you.
First option, leave that church. Leaving the church is the easy thing to do, however I would point out that by leaving a liberal church you are surrendering another portion of the body of Christ to the enemy. You are also surrendering your friends and so fourth to the enemy.
Your second option is to be a bench warmer. You can continue to attend the church, not say much. Attend on Christmas and Easter and mothers day and the like. You're really not doing much if anything at all to alter the direction that the church is going.
The third option that you have is to continue to attend the church but plant a seed of thought in the minds of people that have the same dissatisfaction that you have. When the offering plate comes by, don't put anything in it. Churches have expenses, upkeep and maintenance, salaries and utilities and the like. No money, no meeting of the expenses. When the critical point comes, the point when the church is having a really bad time meeting it's obligations then you make your point quietly but you make your point, no Gospel, no money. Get with the program of promoting the Gospel of Jesus Christ and dump the social, political and enviro-mental advocacy that has replaced the Gospel or it's going to get worse.
I have followed option number three for about a year or so at the church that I attend, a Disciples of Christ church. The church is teetering on the verge of bankruptcy. The idea of "no Gospel, no money," has proven to be fairly popular. My plan is to liberate this church from the liberals. I tell anyone that asks that until the Gospel is first and foremost in this church and the advocacy and activism is dispensed with that there will be no money. You can do as you like. This is the course that I have decided on.
Walkthewalk| 10.2.10 @ 2:37PM
Many liberal churches used to be conservative. This means liberal clergy has taken over not only the congregation, but also the church facilities. Now they control everything and get the people to pay the upkeep. Something must be done to revive Christianity in the congregation and regain the facilities, before the liberal usurpers sell them. Given all the comments in this string, the option suggested by FTM seems a valid course of action. I would further suggest a mid-week house-church meeting where like-minded people from the congregation gather for real fellowship and teaching. Does anyone feel inadequate to teach the Bible? Don't even know the theme of the Bible? Don't know the difference between the kingdom of God and the kingdom of heaven? Don't know why Jesus had to die when he did? Don't know the full extent of value the so-called Old Testament brings to the so-called New Testament? Don't know how a personal relationship with Jesus is accomplished? Not surprising that not everyone knows. Most churches have been remiss in their spiritual teaching function. Try www.christforamericans You may be shocked at the richness in scripture that the churches never shared with you, or never knew. That site will certainly give you a good boost in our fight to regain the soul of America.
midwestnorwegian| 9.30.10 @ 7:03PM
Episcopagans and their church (sic) should be shunned by every single Christian on earth, until they learn to return to His Holy Word.
RCV| 9.30.10 @ 9:22PM
Ah, that's what we need in this country again - shunning! Perhaps we could just be made to wear scarlet "L"s (for "liberal") on our clothing instead. Don't worry, though, I won't slow down when I drive through Lake Wobegon.
Jeremy Stevens| 9.30.10 @ 10:17PM
Cute, RCV, and granted, the Episcopal Church has changed alot since the days of old Father MacDonald, SSJE and Benediction at the mission church on Beaudin Street, but you don't find these to be chilling words on the lips of the (unanimously, mind you, appointed) Pres-Dean of one of the Church's leading seminaries (EDS):
"I want to thank all of you who protect this blessing – who do this work every day: the health care providers, doctors, nurses, technicians, receptionists, who put your lives on the line to care for others (you are heroes -- in my eyes, you are saints); the escorts and the activists; the lobbyists and the clinic defenders; all of you. You’re engaged in holy work."
Annely| 9.30.10 @ 9:40PM
Are you sure this article is not about the U.S. Catholic Bishops? They seem to like open boarders.
Annely| 9.30.10 @ 9:41PM
That's "borders" not "boarders." Sorry.
Ken Roberts | 10.3.10 @ 2:35PM
We have missionaries we support to Mexico and we find that they are a friendly bunch of people, but we do not encourage them to break laws that have been in effect for many years . What we try our best is to teach the word , and do it in a way they can take it with inside their country to make a difference in their fellow countryman's lives . To force people to give is not biblical at all, He would rather you keep your money and your possessions than to give with a grudge attached to it . The word also tells us to abide by the laws of the land and it is a crime to be here illegally that has not changed so no matter how long you have been here it does not give you any rights under our constitution it gives you nothing. When they can-[me they know someday they would have to face being deported . I have some empathy for them yes but sympathy no . I feel what they would feel if you get caught and nothing more. The church to day teaches against the word so much it is hard to find a church that teaches what the bible says .
Jerry Rankin| 10.19.10 @ 1:21PM
"The Gospel commands the Church to offer its message ministry to all persons, from sanctified saints to incarcerated murderers. But the Gospel does not command the U.S. government, or any earthly civil regime, to offer universal hospitality. " - Since the U. S. is in no way a Christian nation beholden to the Gospel.
Louis Vttion handbags | 12.9.10 @ 2:14AM
OhBummer's Healthcare Hijacking is nothing more than an atrocious act of vandalism, in the wake of which he struts around like the cxck-o-the-walk, arrogantly crowing that he has gotten away with this crime. He challenges those who would repeal this mess, daring them to lose votes in that enterprise, but one must remember that those who favor the Healthcare Hijacking would have voted for OhBummer and the OhBummer Wrecking Crew in any case. Perhaps OhBummer had better find a country with which we do not have an extradition treaty and start transferring his millions of dollars there now, as insurance against justice.