The American Spectator

Stephanie| 9.10.10 @ 6:48AM

And he insisted that Christians should "speak out on behalf of Islam as a peace-loving, peace-teaching faith." What? This is getting beyond rediculous and insane. Why don't we just ban christianity, get it over with and turn our country over to the GZ imam! Who will stand up to this hypocracy? This danger infiltrating our country?

Louis Jenkins| 9.10.10 @ 8:46AM

Dear Stephanie:

I will stand up. And many here will also do the same. I believe you will too.

PM| 9.10.10 @ 12:28PM

Hypocracy: rule by hypocrites, or a system of rule based on hypocrisy.

Sheila| 9.10.10 @ 10:14AM

Not to be a pedant, but it's "hypocrisy." Otherwise, excellent comment!

Rich D| 9.12.10 @ 5:10AM

You missed the pun.

loulou| 9.10.10 @ 12:56PM

This pastor is the one with the cojones.

This incident is flushing out the dhimmis and appeasers.

Anthony| 9.10.10 @ 2:16PM

Amen Steph. It's amazing how tuned in these 7th century fanatics are. How is it that an insignificant pastor of a minute church can cause an international event?
If a Koran gets burned in Florida, the entire middle east erupts!! How is it that our enlightened leftists and internationalists can't see fit to invite these folks into the 21st century and politely suggest that the entire world does not have to go up in flames because of one ego driven pastor looking for his 15 mins. ?
And this Imam, what a slick piece or work he is!! He now has the entire Leftist establishement and the MSM convienced that ONLY the G.Z. site will do. Wow, a country of a couple of million square miles and only G.Z. will do. Well, of course only G.Z. will do if your aim is to plant to flag of victory!!
Liberalism and multiculturalism are mental disorders. If we don't turn this country around in November, America is TOAST.

Gretchen| 9.11.10 @ 2:49PM

Anthony

Too right!

Alan Brooks| 9.10.10 @ 5:45PM

I agree about the jihadists and want them all executed. But the non-militant Islamics in America are better to be with than guys like Reverend Koran- burner. Go to a Southern Baptist church and they'll shove their bad religion down your throat, while an American Islamic might ask you why you want to come to their mosque, but otherwise will leave you alone.

There is little to choose between the two so, overall, I say a plague on both their houses.

Sheila| 9.10.10 @ 6:15PM

Golly, Mr. Brooks, if you are going to repeat your same inane anti-Christian comment in response to different articles, I'm going to repeat my same trenchant response: Go live among your beloved Jihadis, then, and to hell with all Jewish liberals.

Rich D| 9.12.10 @ 5:11AM

What do you expect from a one-key piano?

BackToBasics| 9.11.10 @ 12:36AM

So far they will leave you alone in MAerica because they do not have a sufficient percentage of the population to do otherwise. Muslims are 80/20 -- 20/80 like any other group in this respect. Once they have sufficient numbers, the 20% who are more devout will likely have a large percentage of radicals. These are the ones who always seem to get control in the end. At that point they will not "leave you alone."

It is one of the reasons why I prefer Christianity. Jesus' liberal ideas for his day were radical to the leaders, but he himself was not pushy. This is true even though he was among the 20% and of course any Christian would believe he was the number one of the 20% in Israel, being a leader. But he was not pushy. Radical Muslims are very pushy and I think they will eventually rise to the top of the Muslim heirarchy.

This Koran book burning is pushy and I think very counterproductive for everyone and as I state in another post, it really does nothing for the hearts of his congregants.

Margie| 9.11.10 @ 3:08PM

"Jesus wasn't pushy."

And they came to Jerusalem. And He entered the temple and began to drive out those who sold and those who bought in the temple, and He overturned the tables of the money-changers and the seats of those who sold pigeons; and He would not allow any one to carry anything through the temple. And He taught, and said to them, "Is it not written, 'My house shall be called a house of prayer for all the nations'? But you have made it a den of robbers." And the chief priests and the scribes heard it and sought a way to destroy Him; for they feared Him, because all the multitude was astonished at His teaching." Mk. 11:15-18.
"The Passover of the Jews was at hand, and Jesus went up to Jerusalem. In the temple He found those who were selling oxen and sheep and pigeons, and the money-changers at their business. And making a whip of cords, He drove them all, with the sheep and oxen, out of the temple; and He poured out the coins of the money-changers and overturned their tables. And He told those who sold the pigeons, "Take these things away; you shall not make My Father's house a house of trade." His disciples remembered that it was written, "Zeal for thy house will consume me." Jn. 2:15-17.

Alan Brooks| 9.11.10 @ 8:25PM

I don't have anything against most Christians, nevertheless you know if laws were not in place against religious violence (or any violence) Christians would be killing each other and others. Conservatives are supposed to know, Sheila, that civilization is merely a veneer.
We are no better than the Islamics, save for the fact our institutions are more 'progressive'-- or if you don't like the designation 'progressive', then you can say conservatives know human nature is the same everywhere, however Western institutions are somewhat less conducive to violence than Islamic institutions.
PS, Sheila: calm down!

FTM| 9.12.10 @ 2:16AM

Alan,

Not to be a jerk or anything but the crusades in the middle east were a direct result of the Moslems murdering their way across North Africa and invading Spain. I would also invite you to research the siege of Vienna. Read up on Charles "the Hammer" Martel and folks like that.

True enough, the first crusade was fought against the "Cathar Heresy" in southern France, Christian against Christian but for the most part comparing Christian among Christian versus Moslem among Moslem relations Christians are by far more civil toward each other. Moslems on the other hand are savages on a good day. The only time that Moslems will stop slaughtering each other is to slaughter infidels. Lacking infidels then it's back to slaughtering Moslems.

Do you know the hat worn by some people, like Shriners for example, called the Fez? Fez was a little burg in Egypt that was captured by the Moslems way back in the 7th or 8th century. The Moslems lined everybody up, Christians, Jews, Animists, Roman syle Pagans and everybody else and gave them the chance to convert to Islam or get they head chopped off. In the event that you were to convert in order to demonstrate your zeal for Islam you got to hold the sword for the guy in line behind you. The members of the Moslem army rolled their hats in the blood as a kinda-sorta campaign ribbon. That is why the Fez is red. Now, most Moslems will deny that this Fez incident ever happened. Most liberal historians and theologians will deny that Fez ever happened. However, I have read all eight volumes of "The History of the Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire" and Gibbon lists the event with a citation.

By the bye, the only "peaceful" Moslems that I know (knew) are seriously backslidden Moslems. These folks call themselves Moslems the same way that most folks call themselves Christian. I knew a guy from Iran that was big into Michelob beer and REO Speedwagon. The current regieme of thugs in Iran picked him up at the airport in Tehran and shot him for not signing a loyality oath to the Ayatollah back in the 80's.

With all due respect, no harassment or subterfuge intended, if you think for a moment that Islam is a religon of peace then you seriously need to reconsider. If you think for a minute that a devout Moslem will leave you to live in peace you are seriously mistaken.

RCV| 9.13.10 @ 4:19PM

Fez is an ancient city in Morocco, not Egypt, and it was there the hat orinated.

BackToBasics| 9.14.10 @ 12:08AM

You said it, "Jesus wasn't pushy."

Throwing out greedy merchandisers who lost the meaning of their religion which was a relationship with God is not a sign of being pushy. And as for zeal, you can be zealous without being pushy.

Compare what he did with forcing "infidels" to convert by the sword. Or compare it with killing infidels to guarantee yourself a position in paradise with 72 virgins. If that is not the height of selfishness, what is?

BackToBasics| 9.11.10 @ 12:21AM

My second posting of this but on AmSpec I think it's important -

Jones spoke about how books were burned by Christians as mentioned in the Book of Acts in the New Testament. But he does not understand what was going on there, or doesn't seem to. The Christians in tthe Book of Acts burned books that had caused them to be in bondage to such things as witchcraft and astrology. It was not done to be antagonistic to an outside group such as Jones is doing.

They burned books that were causing problems among the congregants themselves, not those outside the church.

I am all for promoting the Gospel, but I do not see how this helps members in his own church become closer to Jesus and better Christians. It's an extermal stunt and prop that attempts to diguise itself as strong Christianity but it does zero for the hearts of the members of his church.

Margie| 9.11.10 @ 3:52PM

"They burned books that were causing problems among the congregants themselves, not those outside the church."

Let's read what it actually says, shall we?

"Many also of those who were now believers came, confessing and divulging their practices.
And a number of those who practiced magic arts brought their books together and burned them in the sight of all; and they counted the value of them and found it came to fifty thousand pieces of silver. So the word of the Lord grew and prevailed mightily." Acts 19:18-20.

I guess that "did zero for the hearts of the members of the church", eh?

Don Stephens| 9.13.10 @ 1:20PM

Margie,

I think you missed the point. "Back" was saying the early Believers were burning their own books, the ones they had previously followed before their conversion. It was, I believe, a reasonable response to repentance, and analogous to a Muslim converting to Christianity and then burning his Koran. (He would, incidentally, almost certainly be executed if he did that in many Islamic cultures today).

The Koran burnings we are talking about here are not a response of repentance, but rather to make a statement. And I, like most Christians, believe it violates the spirit of Jesus, who admittedly shook things up in His "own" temple," but demonstrated love towards Roman idol worshipers.

Margie| 9.13.10 @ 1:55PM

So by your own definition, Jesus was not showing "love" by doing what He did in the temple. But according to you, He showed "love" later. So it isn't "love" when it suits your thinking. And you presume to speak for most Christians too. Wow.

What violates "the spirit of Jesus" is compromise and "respecting" other false Religions. I miss no point. If you agree with Obama on this issue then that speaks volumes about you.

Don Stephens| 9.14.10 @ 8:59AM

Wait, Margie. I'm not trying to pick a fight, here. I actually don't agree with most of what President Obama has to say about Islam. I have strong issues with his whole misguided idea that Islam is an innocuous, peaceful religion that's been hijacked by extremists. I believe he's either ignorant of Islam, or he's lying about it.

But... I have served as a missionary in a Muslim country for almost ten years, and I have many dear friends who are still in bondage to the Islamic deception. I live in the hope that one day they will come to Christ. But I promise you that burning their book will no more draw a Muslim to Christ than Westboro Baptist "Church" standing on the corner with "God hates fags" placards will draw a broken homosexual into His love.

As far as speaking for "most Christians", obviously I haven't spoken with "most Christians. But I do have lots interaction with (literally) thousands of mainstream evangelical believers across a spectrum of denominations and localities. And my experience is that the vast majority of those I've spoken with are profoundly disturbed by the idea of burning the Koran. Perhaps my friends more unique than I think.

We're on the same team, Margie. At least I assume we are. Can we stand together?

Shalom!
Don

BackToBasics| 9.13.10 @ 11:55PM

Your quote does not refute my point. And the account says they burned $5000o worth of books in order to help their hearts grow closer to the Lord Jesus. They did not "pocket" any money. This scripture backs up my point.

Do you get riled up at what you consider Moslem indiscretions or is it only Christians you argue with and that with wrong facts?

I will repeat this again and again. Christianity is the real target of the left. That is why the left is in bed with religion, the Islamic relgion that is.

Yechiel| 9.11.10 @ 11:11PM

I also stand against any bigotry. I am Jewish, but I have spoke up on websites agains Catholic bashing by some "Christians" I have been told twice that I am the most Christins behaving person on that particular blog site.
Point is, before the mouth opens, before the hand moves, we have the free will to share our sibling hood with our fellow human beings. I call on all who believe in G-d to pick a date, and for an agreed period of time, no violences. None. If we can do this, then, according to our belief, G-d shall respond with His love...it is an challenge, can we doso????
Yechiel Shlipshon ben Phecil Avraham Ha Levi

Appleby| 9.10.10 @ 6:53AM

The Eschaton is approaching at warp speed, and a lot of these so-called Ecumenical Interfaith gangs are in for a big surprise. While they are cozying up to the False Prophet and his gang, some of us Christians are quietly going about our Fathers business: feeding the hungry, clothing the nekkid, comforting the dying, visiting the shut-in and lonely (even if our grandmothers didnt go to school with their grandmothers), and picking up the myriad newspapers, styrofoam Starbucks cups and banana peels splattered across the world by the members of the First Self-Righteous Church and their out-of-control children.

KyMouse| 9.10.10 @ 10:02AM

I doubt that any of these "church" leaders care that Islam is an explicitly anti-Christian religion. It flatly denies the Trinity, the divinity of Jesus, His crucifixion, His resurrection, and much more.

They should remember that, concerning His divinity, Jesus said in John 8:24, "...if you do not believe that I am He, you shall die in your sins."

The Koran teaches that Jesus was a mere mortal, an apostle and prophet who said that the coming Comforter would be Muhammad, not the Holy Spirit, in John 16:7: "If I depart, I will send Him to you..."

I've heard that the Arabic verses that appear around the base of the gold dome of the Dome of the Rock are verses that make such denials about Jesus. If that's true, why choose those verses, out of all of the ones in the Koran, if Islam is *not* explicitly anti-Christian?

KyMouse| 9.10.10 @ 10:21AM

I'll back up my comment above with the following partial translation of the Arabic inscriptions on the Dome of the Rock (from www.islamic-awareness.org):

"Praise be to God, who hath not taken unto Himself a son...There is no god but God. He is one. He has no associate...He begetteth not nor has begotten...The Messiah, Jesus, son of Mary, was only a Messenger of God[...] so believe in God and His Messengers, and say not 'Three' -- Cease!...Far be removed from His transcendent majesty that He should have a son..."

As I said, explicitly anti-Christian.

mad libertarian guy| 9.11.10 @ 10:07AM

Gee. It couldn't have anything to do with tens of thousands of Christian soldiers trying to take their land by overt military force or anything.

doodeh| 9.11.10 @ 12:37PM

Their land? Christians where there 7 centuries before them and muslims took it. The crusades started because the Egyptian khalifa detroyed the church of holy sephulcre, and not as it is comonly told (for catholic bashing purposes) that the pope was bloody.
Christianity has been in apology mode for the last 2 centuries, for things it did and did not do. It is about time people get their heads out of the sand and realise that this time we have the full right to defend not just our faith, but our way of life. Muslims come to non muslims coutry with the subconcious thought of speading their faith, either through demographics or conversions or force. Some try to "democraticaly" demand Sharia law to be applied too. They get offended by our faith and the Cross, both which are a crucial part of the Birth of America.
Dont get me started about how minority religion (including christianity) are treated in muslim countries.
TBH, you dont like the US, leave.

FTM| 9.12.10 @ 5:06AM

Google up the "Proclamation to All European Jewery" that was written, if memory serves by one of the Mahmouds, the first dynasty of emperors of the Ottoman Empire. The Proclamation was an invitation to all Jews that lived in Europe to move to the "Trans-Jordan" area by a Moslem Emperor to escape the Inquisition in the 12th and 13th centuries in places especially like Spain.

The word "Palistine" didn't come into use until the advent of the Roman Empire and was used by the Romans as a reference to the Philistines, not the Jews or anybody else that lived in the area.

The people that call themselves "Palistinians today are for the most part ethnic Jordinians. The ancestors of these people, prior to what is called the "Trans-Jordan Partitian" that was engineered by the British in the late 40's, escaped from the area of Jordan after their tribal minority attempted to assasinate the leader of a tribal majority. The assasination attempt failed. The members of the tribe that hung around got slaughtered. The ones that split ended up in what is now Trans-Jordan.

The last arguement, the British basically drew the map of what is now the modern Middle East. Iran is what was Persia. Syria is what once was Assyria. Iraq and Jordan is what was once Babylon. Now, all of these middle eastern nation states claim the right to exist due to their existence in antiquity. The modern nation state of Israel pre-dates all of these other nation states but Israel doesn't have the right to exist. Now how is that?

If Islam was a religion of peace then why is it that these barbarians deliberately target civilian population centers in Israel and nobody whines a bit. Let the Israelis defend themselves and it's automatically called "ethnic cleansing" or some such by the liberal media.

Gary| 9.13.10 @ 3:27PM

you can't "do" your way into heaven Appleby - are you a Methodist?

ConMan| 9.10.10 @ 7:11AM

I am a horrible speller. That is why I like Firefox. You can get a spellchecker that will make a red, squiggly line under "mispelled" words. Stephanie and Appleby would do well to do the same.

Comenius| 9.10.10 @ 8:46AM

Please try to stay focused, ConMan. Take your Ritalin and turn off your tv. We're talking about Christians being persecuted by the "Religion of Peace" and you're distracted by spelling errors?

Ret. Marine| 9.10.10 @ 7:12AM

Yeah I'll be all for the inter-relations of all faiths including atheism when the totalitarian gubmints of the house of saud, syria, iran-aryan, etc, allows Christian Churches and their followers the "right" to practice their religion in those countries in peace, until them, I'll be as physiologically mean as they remain and will have a readily preconceived answer for them, piss-off. What's good for the goose is good for the gander.

Booger| 9.10.10 @ 7:57AM

On June 1, 2009 two soldiers at a recruiting office were shot in Little Rock, AR, where I live. One of the soldiers, a private who had recently finished basic training (he was not an actual recruiter himself, he was there to talk to other recruits) died as a result of his wounds. The man who murdered him was a muslim, and gave the koran as the motivation for his actions.
This, however, is not the first amendment issue. A few days later the family of the fallen soldier, along with a large group of their friends and many members of our local community gathered at the parking lot in front of the recruiting center to hold a vigil for their murdered son. Incredibly enough, their vigil was disrupted by a muslim woman (in full niqab, no less) who showed up to mock the family and cause a huge disruption. She was protected in doing this because it was her "first amendment right" to do so.
One wonders why there were no howls of protest at this outrage, while so many on these pages wring their hands over the burning of a few pages of paper. It seems we have come to the point where a few fluttering pages our enemies use to justify our murder are more valuable than the blood of our fallen brothers. Shame to us all.

Sheila| 9.10.10 @ 10:19AM

I well remember that incident and the Muslima harassing those at the vigil. I also remember how little press coverage it got and how soon it was forgotten.

I would caution sending people to Atlas Shrugged, however. One can occasionally find good things there, but Pamela Geller sees anti-Semitism behind everything and everyone who is not a rabid Zionist, and her ego is the driving force behind everything on her blog. With that caveat, however, people may still find it useful on occasion.

Margie| 9.11.10 @ 2:56PM

That's because the anti-semites are despicable human beings and deserve to be outed. That's why you can't stand her.

Booger | 9.10.10 @ 8:14AM

Here is the link to the muslim celebrating the murder in Little Rock via Atlas Shrugged:
http://atlasshrugs2000.typepad.....uslim.html

Booger| 9.10.10 @ 8:17AM

atlassshrugs2000.typepad.com/atlas_shrugs/2009/06/remebrance-rally-for-us-soldier-murdered-by-jihadi-in-arkansas-crashed-by-fanatical-muslim.html

Try this if the above did not work.

mad libertarian guy| 9.11.10 @ 10:13AM

Here's how utterly stupid you sound.

"I'll be in favor of free speech when totalitarian governments allow in their countries."

Since when do American freedoms rely on what those in totalitarian countries do? Get a clue.

As utterly foolish and immoral as liberal policy is, conservatives show time and again that they are no better, especially as pertains to actual freedom (as opposed to the trumped up meanings of freedom conservatives profess with no sense of irony and Jo apologies for some of their inherently anti-liberty stances.

Margie| 9.11.10 @ 2:59PM

You are a typical whacko anti-Christian, anti- conservative Libertarian and your holier-than thou stupidity is all aglow.

Vaemar| 9.10.10 @ 7:16AM

Of course burning a Koran is unacceptable. Apart from anything else it is a breach of good manners. Yet the anger and frustration which leads to such things being suggested is understandable.

Jeremiah| 9.10.10 @ 7:53AM

Sorry, I have changed my mind about treating Islam with any respect. Read the Koran and you will want to vomit. It commands faithful Muslims to rape, torture and murder infidels who will not convert. The only hope of moderation in it is how long a Muslim can give an infidel to convert.

I know, yada, yada, yada...all faiths have committed some violence in the name of their religion. The Koran is fundamentally different, as is Islam. In the Old Testament, violence was visited and wars were fought for traditional reasons - territorial gain, passage, various rivalries. Brutal as it seems now, it was par for the course then. What wars were not fought for was to kill innocent people who would not convert. When a Christian commits violence against innocents in the name of his faith, he violates his Founder's prime command. When a Muslim shows excessive tolerance to one of another faith, he violates his founder's command.

In many Muslim countries you can be jailed or executed for being caught with a Bible. Non-Muslim places of worship are banned. Burn the hell out of those Korans. If the Muslim street explodes, so much the better. It will let us know who to target. If the bastards want 'peace' and 'respect', they better figure out it is a two-way street. We should not be arguing about whether the GZ Mosque should be built, but how many other mosques (terrorist recruiting centers) should be burned to the ground.

As for Vaemar's suggestion that we mind our manners, I am no longer interested in being mannerly with a religion that institutionally insists it is right to murder innocent children and threatens to get even more violent if we resist. Screw them and the horse they rode in on. I have had enough. What Jihad with their brutal, viciousness and the 'moderate Muslims' mealy-mouthing trying to excuse it has convinced me is that Islam is a Satanic cult that needs to be engaged and destroyed. So moderate Muslims, if you want to convince people otherwise, you better take control of Islam and show real tolerance, or a real war must come.

Ken (Old Texican)| 9.10.10 @ 8:07AM

Jeremiah,
Well spoken, Sir.

One quibble. The war HAS come.

We have finally given the ignorant savages enough of our tech. to wage war on a broader front is all.

In addition, we are busily educating their children in our colleges of engineering to kill us more efficiently.
My suggestion?
End every single student visa to a Muslim engineer and send them home.

Sheila| 9.10.10 @ 10:21AM

I second your recommendation, Ken (Old Texican), but must note that after 9/11 Bush actually INCREASED the number of Muslim student visas to promote greater multiculturalism and understanding of the "religion of peace." Decline and fall.

Quartermaster| 9.10.10 @ 6:11PM

Historically, the penalty for stupidity is death. Just as the Romans and Byzantines.

Mzk1| 9.13.10 @ 1:52PM

I wish they would cancel them all except for religious minorities. They come to the U.S. are persecute the Jewish students.

Sheila, that was unfair. Jewish Liberals are no different from Liberal Christians, such as the NCC, which one harboroed a Nazi war criminal and pushed for Elian to be sent back.

Furthermore, there are religious Jews who are Liberal because that is how they interpret the concept of charity. Please don't paint people with a broad brush.

Louis Jenkins| 9.10.10 @ 8:43AM

Jeremiah:

10-4, I read you loud and clear. I second all you have written. There are no moderate Islamic factions. Time to suit up and become pro-active. Yes, the Mosques are recruitment centers for terrorists. And you cannot tell which muslim is a terrorist. The Arkansas incident is just one of many incidents in this late great country, and the whole bunch of muslims always send out a woman to do their dirty work. Shameful!

The rest of you diaper wetters had better get a good dose of reality and think about it. A nation divided against itself cannot stand. Muslims have won the first quarter and thankfully for them, have kept us divided. We see the cut of material that you are made of. If you continue in your misbegotten ways, you will wind up on the losing end the bargain.

Louis Jenkins| 9.10.10 @ 11:29AM

Go to this website and observe. Now there's a US Captain I'd follow, not Fast Eddie Randell, not the Pretender n Chief, and certainly not Hillary Clinton.

http://www.i-am-bored.com/bored_link.cfm?link_id=38389

Louis Jenkins| 9.12.10 @ 5:56PM

Another story about the shooting in Pa. She was a holy woman:

http://www.nbcphiladelphia.com.....24529.html

Louis Jenkins| 9.12.10 @ 5:57PM

Another story about ripping out the pages of a Koran.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20.....0911185812

Louis Jenkins| 9.12.10 @ 6:00PM

I can get more websites and incidents if you like. I think the bottom line is: who are the radicals? The last article mentioned above was peaceful, yet when a muslim goes off the deep end, which is often, who is injured or killed? Sharia law and tacquia are fast approaching. Who will be the next victim?

Louis Jenkins| 9.12.10 @ 6:03PM

So this is what you may expect when our turn rolls around.

http://www.foxnews.com/world/2.....latestnews

Denver| 9.10.10 @ 9:04AM

Burn the book, and Islamists go mad. Don't build the mosque, and Islamists go mad. I think the underlying narrative is that America sees the future of Islamist violence around the world, and it doesn't look good.

Purple Lips| 9.10.10 @ 9:21AM

Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah...

These effette, highly credentialed, bedwetters are on the wrong slope of history. Thier Progressive, Frankfurter School of Christianity has become as passe as Cher, Jane Fonda, and VHS tapes.

Thier heyday was during the Fr Greeley, Andre Crouch, Jimmy Carter era of the 1970s. But that preceeded Suicide Bombers, Mega Churches, and Charlie Crist's sun tan. It's a whole different world out there.

In a world filled with Lady Ga-Gas, Blind Shieks planning the next Caliphate, DINKS (Double Income No Kids) who can't make it on $250,000/year, and where drunk multi-millionaire actors can threaten thier fans with murderous violence via Twitter, these swell Progressive Christians seem quaint. They have finally found a religion that gets thier juices flowing. I haven't seen them this excited since the time Aunt Mable brought 3 huge pans of chicken fried Hamburger Helper to the Church potluck

Bill Hussein O'Stalin| 9.10.10 @ 9:27AM

When the National Endowment for the arts funded the work of Andres Serrano, which included placing a crucifix in a jar of urine, liberals loved it.

Now that someone wants to burn a book which encourages it converts to kill non-believers, the liberals and many conservatives are against it.

It's the game plan of Al-Qaeda basically.

http://www.publiceye.org/theocrat/Mapplethorpe_Chrono.html

“The term ‘human being’,” says Warner, “has no meaning inside of Islam. There is no such thing as humanity, only the duality of the believer and unbeliever. Look at the ethical statements found in the Hadith. A Muslim should not lie, cheat, kill or steal from other Muslims. But a Muslim may lie, deceive or kill an unbeliever if it advances Islam.”

“This dualistic ethic,” says Warner, “is the basis for jihad. The ethical system sets up the unbeliever as less than human and therefore, it is easy [or morally justifiable] to kill, harm or deceive the unbeliever.” Of course unbelievers have frequently failed to apply the Golden Rule, but as Warner points out, we can be judged and condemned on its basis.

“The dualism of Islam offers two choices on how to treat the unbeliever. The unbeliever can be treated nicely, in the same way a farmer treats his cattle well. A Muslim may be “friendly,” but he is never an actual friend. And the degree to which a Muslim is actually a true friend is the degree to which he is not a Muslim, but a hypocrite.”

http://segalyakov.livejournal.com/6025.html

Havoc| 9.10.10 @ 10:03AM

I own two, back-to-front-printed, classical Arabic korans. One hardback and one paperback.

Today, or tomorrow, I will burn both in my chiminea. One, I shall bore out with a large paddle bit, insert a tumescent bratwurst, and photograph before posting to the web. This one, I will name , "Bratwurst Mohamed".

My dog, Jesse, and I will urinate on the both korans after an initial kerosine soak. Then, I will light up. I will film and post this, too.

Finally, I will relax in a lawn chair, look to my priming - General Petraeus, call your office - and scan the horizon for offended jihadi's. Oh, and Jesse will alert me if I doze off ...

As a public service, this is better than rat hunting - and perfectly legal. Cao!

Madrid32| 9.10.10 @ 11:23AM

It is clearly a dispicable act... but where do we draw the line in "protecting" Islam in particular. In the rush to make sure it is not being "persecuted" we elevate it to a higher standard than any other religion in the country. It has become the religion dujour right now. Whereas an "artist" can put Jesus in urine and Muslims in other countries can burn the bible and kill missionaries carrying them - all without much uproar, any act perceived by a muslim to be insulting to his faith gets the special treatment. If any act that would be normal - say satirizing Jesus or Abraham or any other religious non-muslim figure - cannot be applied to Islam, then there exists a double standard.
If Islam wants to come to America, it must fit in with America - not the other way around. In a country where the US flag has been burned, Judeo-Christian symbols outlawed/condemned/disrespected, I would expect the same to be applicable to Islamic traditions and symbols with no fear of reprisal within the United States.

Melvin| 9.10.10 @ 11:29AM

I cut an pasted from a post from another article on American Spectator.
My post seems more appropriate for Mark Tolley's article. than the other.

People, we have to stop thinking in a 21st Century rational. The vast majority of Muslims are by and large illiterate and never had anything of education other than what the Madrasah religious leaders had taught them.
Words that are devoted to political violence. Islam has three sacred texts: Koran, Sira, and Hadith. These three texts have 328,000 words devoted to political violence, and the New Testament has zero words.
The Sira alone devotes 67% of its text to jihad. Mohammed averaged an event of violence every six weeks for the last nine years of his life. Jihad was what made Mohammed successful.
The above data was taken from the American Thinker by an article by Bill Warner, "The Political Violence of the Bible and the Koran."
So we must see and somehow figure out a way to counter the lifetime of being taught violence is OK because Mohammed says it is. Young Muslims are taught this from day one and they go through their entire lives perpetuating this violent cycle.
I think this is why it is so hard for modern day Christians to grasp this fact, because from day one Christians are taught to turn the other cheek from violence and the term, "Political Violence" isn't even in the Christian lexicon.
"Well how come the educated moderate Muslims are remaining silent while the masses go an an orgy of political violence against the Infidels?" For one thing there is a definite hierarchy or rank structure within Islam. If a Muslim kills one or a million Infidels he and his family are treated with great respect and honor by the Islamic Community, a fifteen minutes of fame if you will. This is why we see so many highly educated Muslims as field commanders on the battlefield. They achieve great honor for them and their families, and since it is political violence against the Infidels, it perpetuates the spread of Islam to turn the world in a Islamic Caliphate.
This honor thing is exactly why all Muslims are so short fused and resort to violence, because anything an Infidel does is an affront to Islam.
Jones could have burned one to a million Korans the result would have been the same. Because, now Muslims all over the world are thinking, "Yea, you didn't burn the Koran, but you were still thinking about it." Look at all that we have done for Afghanistan treated these people with respect dignity gave them certain rights like women getting educated and they still fly from the hive en mass to attack anything that is perceived as American, even after thousands of Infidels have died in trying to give them those human rights.
"Well, Islam doesn't appreciate or show gratitude for what we have done for them." Yes, that is true, they are completely incapable of showing gratitude or humility of having our sons and daughters die in a Godforsaken 7th Century shit hole because the Koran, Sira, and Hadith forbid it.
The Koran, Sira, and Hadith are manuals for political violence and we have to treat and fight them as such. We cannot and must not treat them in the same context as the New Testament. Because if we do, it will be our destruction or subjugation as a free people.

glenny| 9.10.10 @ 5:10PM

""Well how come the educated moderate Muslims are remaining silent while the masses go an an orgy of political violence against the Infidels?"

Because the educated, moderate Muslims don't want to die at the hands of the jihadis either ! glenny

Richard| 9.10.10 @ 12:27PM

Hmm, where was this hysterical consternation when that bonehead put a cross into a jar of his urine and called it art?

Jeremiah| 9.10.10 @ 12:59PM

I have no doubt that 80-85% of Muslims are captives of the satanic cult called Islam. They are like the prisoners of the murderous old cult of Quexlcoatl in Aztec lands, who feared to rebel against their leaders (because it meant death - and generally painful and gruesome) until some 10 million converted over a decade to Christianity 500 years. A miracle, and that satanic cult ceased to exist.

The ruling class displays the 'Piss Christ' and the 'Elephant Dung Madonna' in public museums and we Christians who complain about it were told what bitter, unsophisticated rubes we were. But insult Islam, or object to the obscenity of plans for a Victory Mosque at the site of 9/11 and the same ruling calss says we need to be sensitive. Candy-asses. They're teaching that the way for a religion to get respect among the ruling class is to be run by a bunch of murderous, genocidal maniacs.

How many thousands of innocent Americans have been murdered by Muslims in the name of their religion this past decade? Have even a hundred Muslims been killed in this country by people unglued by revenge? Yet what does our government and the ruling class say we need to be concerned about - Muslim maniacs or a backlash against Islam? Cowards and panty-waists.

Islam is run by savage barbarians. The Saudi Royal Family? Rich savage barbarians. The savagery will not stop until we rescue the poor people held captive by this satanic cult by showing Islamic leaders the respect of taking them at their word; that they will not rest until they have destroyed all who are not Muslim. Then wipe those Islamic leaders off the face of the earth, to be studied only in history books alongside the murderous cult of Quexlcoatl.

Jeffrey| 9.13.10 @ 12:10AM

Rev. 9 describes the condition of the 80 - 85% of Muslims well: "seeking death" and not finding it (except on a few occasions) tragic to us of course. It also describes who their master is. Zombies is a good word to desribe these 80-85%. The other 15-20% are active killers.

Al Adab| 9.10.10 @ 1:58PM

As we can see from many of the above, Americans would be better served to read rather than burn the Quran. To know the thought process of other cultures is a desireable thing.

Margie| 9.11.10 @ 2:53PM

Read it privately, Burn it publicly.

RCV| 9.11.10 @ 3:57PM

But at least read it first.

Margie| 9.11.10 @ 4:40PM

I have read in the Koran where it says to "Kill the infidels." It is a warped book written by a child molester. It makes me vomit. I have read enough of it. Now please, get real.

That would be you as well. Typical Liberal/Leftist idiocy.

Margie| 9.11.10 @ 4:42PM

Meant to say that would be you as well~ "an infidel."

And p.s. What a Muslim needs to have is a Christian who is understands the Bible and can show from there how Christ is the answer. Your phony argument is just that, Phony.

djn| 9.10.10 @ 2:18PM

There will be no peace with muslims because the koran teaches hatred. Those so-called religious leaders appeasing muslims are dillusional or just not true Christians. Are they oblivious to what muslims are doing to innocent people throughout the world?

Joe D.| 9.10.10 @ 2:24PM

That book, the Quran is neither holy or inspired. So lets get that straight. Second, it has not been anything great for any society. It, and its supposed author, has brought more destruction and death that any other book in history. So burning a few to make a point that that book is responsible for such destruction is valid. I don't think that is the best way, but they burn and destroy our holy book every day in there country.

And finally, they do not listen to niceness. They only listen to strenght and toughness. So backing down at this point would make us look like cowards again. And that would not drive them to civility. It would do the opposite as obama has proved by his wimpy additude and the Middle East response to it and terrorists actions here.

Oldefarte| 9.10.10 @ 3:44PM

I agree with Mark's thesis/conclusions. Anyone's protestations over this BOOK burning THREAT, compared to the insideous violence/destruction by Muslims worldwide against all non-Muslims, is ludicrous, insane and POLITICAL CORRECTNESS 101. I am not aware of any bigotry towards Muslims in this country, since their religious institutions/mosques are not destructed or inhibited in any way [the criticism of their proposed mosque at ground zero is logical, rational and directed/centered]. The worldwide violent protests over this book burning threat is a typical example of the violent nature of Muslims for superficial reasons, and if they are to ever deserve the respect that other religions receive, Muslims must begin to rein in/destroy the radical elements prevelent within their ranks!!!!!!!

Alex M.| 9.10.10 @ 3:59PM

I'm a student and kind of confused about all this. I go to school with some Muslim kids and they keep telling me that even though the Koran says all that stuff about killing the non Muslims not all Muslims follow that anymore. The kids I know have grandparents from US and their parents were born in the US and they don't want anything else than to be American. And they do all the same stuff I do. Am I suppossed to think they are lying to me and pretending to like me? Are we suppossed to be ready for Muslim soldiers to invade us? Isn't our Army going to protect us?

Ken (Old Texican)| 9.10.10 @ 6:05PM

Alex M.

Thanks for dropping in. Good questions.

No, our Army is directed by the President. The Army, (Navy etc.) are under civilian orders.

I deeply fear our President is on the Islamist side.

Buy a rifle and some ammo....and keep your eyes wide open.
God bless

Quartermaster| 9.10.10 @ 6:15PM

Ken, those people have also become something other than Muslims.

I am afraid you are right about the Obamanation. It is always wide to have weapons, and the knowledge to sue them and to keep your eyes open, particularly with the lot in power these days, no matter which party it is.

L. Ross| 9.10.10 @ 6:09PM

Alex, I'm in the military, and you may rest assured, we are not in danger of muslims armies invading U.S. soil. We most certainly are in danger of random acts of terrorism, ranging from non-events that are halted before they really begin up to and including 9-11 (whose anniversary is tomorow) which cost thousands of lives and hundreds of billions of dollars to our economy. We are concerned about the cancer that is wahabism, the most violent, backward looking, and fastest growing school of islam on the planet. wahabism is the official branch of islam of the nation of Saudi Arabia, and their expansion is being fueled by our petro-dollars. We are concerned about the double standard which is being applied to Christianity and Christian nations vs. the standard applied to islam and muslim nations. To whit, any insult against a Christian and Christ is just fine, but any slight against islam is cause for rioting and murder. We are also concerned about the islamification we see in Western Europe. These formerly Christian majority nations have become extremely islamified through rampant immigration. Europeans are afraid to enter muslim ghettos, barbaric third world practices are now common place in Europe (forced marraige, female genital mutilation, honor killings, to name a few). To put it succinctly, islam is not a religion of peace. It is not much of a religion at all. It is a totalitarian way of life which was founded by a child molesting warlord. Its adherents by and large produce very little of value and contribute very little to the advancement of mankind. Outside of oil exporting nations, they are mostly very poor, unproductive, and uneducated. Sadly, this is because they insist on glorifying the life of mohammed, and desire to return life to the golden age of islam, which is the 6th century A.D.

Regarding your friends, I'm glad to hear that they are healthy, well balanced, sane Americans. Sadly, they follow a religion which does not encourage that behavior. But since you mention your friends, do they ever speak out on the evils of islam as it is practiced around the world? Do they even acknowledge the honor killings, the public stonings, beheadings and murders of apostates which are committed in the name of islam? If not, why not? Frankly, I keep waiting for the good, honest American muslims to come out and condemn the riots over the mohammed cartoons, to publicly state that Ground Zero is probably not the best place for a mega-mosque, to unequivocally condemn the Ft. Hood murderer. Their silence on these issues makes me question their loyalty as Americans and their allegiance to the same.

Quartermaster| 9.10.10 @ 6:27PM

Well said, Ross, very well said.

I would bet a dollar to a donut that if some Islamists came around and told them to do something, they would either do it or support it. My observation is there are no Muslims we can trust. Muslim immigration is the result of a death wish on the part of our "elites."

RCV| 9.11.10 @ 2:30AM

Alex, like you, I know many fine Americans who are Muslims. They are not terrorists anymore than you are. Ignore the ignorant hatred you see posted here and trust your human instincts. I have read the Qu'ran many times as a student of religions. There is much in it that would be familiar to any Christian or Jew: recounting of familiar old testament stories of Moses, Abraham, Adam and Eve; much praise for Jesus, his immaculate conception and virgin birth. Muslims see Jesus as an especially revered prophet, miraculously conceived in Mary's womb by God himself. But they do not accept him as divine. Yes, there are many passages in the Qu'ran hostile to Jews; these were written at a time when Muhammed and his followers were engaged in a war with Jews in Medina and elsewhere. (There is much anti-semitism in the Gospel of John, and for a similar reason: it was written after the followers of Jesus had broken with the traditional Jews of Palestine and were in competition with them.)

My point is, you are correct in your assessment that most Muslims, certainly here in the US but also around the world, do not follow the extremist interpretation of the radical Islamicists.

L. Ross| 9.11.10 @ 2:42AM

RCV, I'm still waiting for the moderate muslims to come out in force and proclaim loudly "Not in our name" regarding any muslim atrocity committed around the world. I've been waiting the better part of a decade.

"If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck......" it's probably a false moderate trying to fit in. Which, interestingly enough is another behavior strongly encouraged in the koran. Which you have read.

L. Ross| 9.11.10 @ 2:44AM

By the way, RCV, did you, as a scholar of islam, find anything not factual in my posting?

L. Ross| 9.11.10 @ 2:48AM

Regarding the virgin birth of Christ, islam teaches that 'He does not beget nor is He begotten, and there is none like unto Him.' This is hardly the groundwork for the divinity of Christ, nor the teachings of the Trinity. But then, you would know that, as a student of the koran.

RCV| 9.11.10 @ 12:06PM

Of course it doesn't acknowledge the divinity of Christ, as I said. Islam, like Judaism, is strictly monotheistic. But unlike Judaism, it does believe that Jesus was immaculately conceived in Mary's womb by God's will, and sent to mankind as a prophet. It rejects explicitly the Trinity or the attribution of divinity to any of the Prophets, among whom are Jesus, Moses, and Mohammed.

Margie| 9.11.10 @ 2:50PM

But the Jews believe in the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, as do Christians.

Islam does not.

RCV| 9.11.10 @ 3:32PM

Margie, that is just a false and ignorant statement.

Margie| 9.11.10 @ 3:45PM

The God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob is a righteous and loving God who is living. He does not approve of suicide bombers nor does he advocate Heaven and 72 virgins as a reward for such perverted behavior. Therefore it isn't Him who they worship.

RCV| 9.11.10 @ 3:56PM

And that's not the God the overwhelming majority of Muslims know and worship either.

Margie| 9.11.10 @ 4:35PM

They need to be told the truth. That their god is a false god who promote murder. The god in the Koran is not the true God. And you know it. So what is your problem with with the Truth, then?

RCV| 9.11.10 @ 8:12PM

There is one God, Margie, and people the world over struggle to know Him. We are all His children. Get yourself a dose of humility before you go to meet Him.

Margie| 9.12.10 @ 12:44AM

For someone who constantly preaches to me about how I need to get humble and has nothing but lies to speak about me and what I believe~ (which is according to the Bible), you certainly show yourself to be quite the hypocrite!

And a know nothing as well. If you really did know the Bible and study it all of your life as you claim, and read hundreds of books about it you would not say that we are all God's children because that's not what God says.

I go to the Bible for what God says and proclaim it, and this is what He says concerning the issue:

"The true Light that enlightens every man was coming into the world. He was in the world, and the world was made through Him, yet the world knew Him not. He came to His own home, and His own people received Him not. But to all who received Him, who believed in His Name, He gave power to become children of God; who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God." Jn. 1: 9-13.

Thus it is written that you need to become a child of God, by receiving Jesus.

Now, how about getting humble and admitting you were wrong?

RCV| 9.12.10 @ 1:44AM

This is the God I know, Margie: "The Lord is gracious and merciful, slow to anger and abounding in steadfast love. The Lord is good to all, and his compassion is over all that he has made." (Psalm 146:8-9)

Rich D| 9.12.10 @ 5:21AM

That's a non sequitur. Can't you admit that you are wrong about all being Cod's children?

RCV| 9.12.10 @ 12:24PM

No, I don't believe I'm wrong. I believe God hears the prayers of all people and loves all his creation. But I'm well aware that God's nature is beyond all human comprehension.

Margie| 9.12.10 @ 5:57PM

RCV openly stated that he doesn't believe the Bible is true. He therefore makes himself God instead. He is arrogant while preaching to others (that'd be me, Miss Venom for one), about how we need to be humble.

So RCV will not be admitting he is wrong even when what he says goes completely against what the Bible clearly says. He is in darkness and needs to come to the Light.

"He who believes in Him is not condemned; he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the Name of the only Son of God. And this is the judgment, that the Light has come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than Light, because their deeds were evil. For every one who does evil hates the Light, and does not come to the Light, lest his deeds should be exposed. But he who does what is true comes to the Light, that it may be clearly seen that his deeds have been wrought in God." Jn. 3:18-21.

RCV| 9.12.10 @ 6:24PM

If there is one thing I know I am not, Margie, it's God. The Bible was written by men, Margie. It's a collection of many different things: letters, love songs, proverbs. We even know the identity of many of the human beings who wrote parts of it: Saul of Tarsus; St. John; Solomon. Other parts are derived from prior works: parts of the flood story in Genesis are lifted almost verbatim from the ancient Epic of Gilgamesh.

Recognizing that the Bible was written by men, not God, doesn't make you God.

Margie| 9.12.10 @ 11:26PM

Wow RCV, you're so blind to your arrogance. Now, if you were truly regenerated from above, as John chapter 3 says, you wouldn't be talking that way. But right now you have a hard heart towards God and a darkened mind.

If you knew Jesus and had a relationship with Him you wouldn't be saying the things that you say. You wouldn't say outright that the Bible isn't true. You would know that it is. Yes, men are fallible. But God's Holy Spirit isn't, and the men who wrote the Bible were "moved by His Spirit." 2 Pe. 1:21. And you can't have it both ways. Either God is telling the truth or He's a liar. And YOU are judging Him.

Do you know of this verse: "Unless one is regenerated from above he cannot see the Kingdom of God." Jn 3:3. Do you know what that means?

Margie| 9.12.10 @ 11:30PM

p.s. What I meant by saying you make yourself God is that you make yourself the authority then, by not taking His words as truth~ you become your own (false) god and worship yourself, then. Thereby making yourself an idol worshipper. Remember~ "Thou shalt have no other God before Me." Well you need to stop making yourself god, and start worshipping the True God.

L. Rosss| 9.13.10 @ 12:48AM

Not all are the children of a coldwater/saltwater fish. Just kidding.

RCV| 9.13.10 @ 3:14PM

Blessed are the fish-mongers, for they shall be called Children of Cod.

Nick| 9.11.10 @ 12:27PM

RCV,

Your statement, "There is much anti-semitism in the Gospel of John,[...]" is ridiculous. Saint John was a Jew. There is absolutely nothing anit-Semitic written in the Gospels.

Perhaps you could give some examples, instead of just mere assertions.

RCV| 9.11.10 @ 1:22PM

The shift in tone from the synoptic gospels to John has been remarked on by many dedicated Christian biblical scholars, Nick, as reflecting the increasing tensions that resulted from the sharp break between the Christian Jews and the Orthodox Jews after the destruction of the Temple. The author of John refers to "the Jews" as an other (example: 5:10 "So the Jews said to the man who was cured..."; 5:16 "And this is why the Jews persecuted Jesus because he did this on the Sabbath"; 6:41 "The Jews then murmered at him because he had said.." 7:1 "After this Jesus went about in Galilee; he would not go about in Judea because the Jews sought to kill him."

"The Jews" are an other in the Gospel of John. You don't find that in Matthew or Mark, for example, where factions of the Jewish community are sometimes called out, but the narrative is one about Jesus amongst his community of Jews.

You are right that "anti-semitic" is not the correct word -- as it isn't with the Qu'ran either, since the Arabs who wrote it were semites as well. "Anti-Judaic" is the term I should have used.

Nick| 9.11.10 @ 4:59PM

RCV,

Saint John was the author of the "Gospel According to Saint John," which was written before the fall of Jerusalem. Saint John was a Jew. There is nothing "Anti-Judaic" in the Gospels either.

Using the term "the Jews" to accurately describe whom he was talking about, doesn't mean he was anti-Jewish. The so-called "scholars" who came up with this theory are the same type who want to prove that the Bible is not true.

It is an interpretation that true Christians do not hold.

Margie| 9.11.10 @ 5:14PM

This is an interesting point. The other day Stuart Koehl accused me of being an anti-semite because I quoted the New testament where Jesus told the Jews that they were of their father the Devil. He told them this because they refused to believe in Him despite all the miracles He was performing right before their very eyes. Yet someone can be called an anti-semite for quoting the Bible! So, maybe he is one of these ones who wish to prove that the Bible is untrue. Perhaps he can explain himself.

The truth is that anyone who does not believe in Him is condemning themselves. As it is written:

"He who believes in Him is not condemned; He who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the Name of the only Son of God." Jn. 3:18.

Margie| 9.11.10 @ 2:52PM

"My point is, you are correct in your assessment that most Muslims, certainly here in the US but also around the world, do not follow the extremist interpretation of the radical Islamicists."

If this were true then they would burn their Korans, since in this book of Death it tells them to kill the infidels.

RCV| 9.11.10 @ 3:26PM

And you would burn your Bible because others use it to justify hatred and killing and all kinds of mischief. That makes sense. Most Muslims don't interpret the Qu'ran that way. Instead, they read passages like the following: "Surely the believers and the Jews, Nazareans [Christians] and the Sabians, whoever believes in God and the Last Day, and whosoever does right, shall have his reward with his Lord and will neither have fear nor regret." (Al Qu'ran 2:61) "The Jews say: 'The Christians are not right.' The Christians say: 'The Jews are in the wrong'; yet both read the Scriptures; and this is what the unread had said too. God alone will judge between them in their differences on the Day of Reckoning." (2:113) "He has verily revealed to you in this Book, in truth and confirmation of the Books revealed before, as indeed He had revealed in the Torah and the Gospel." (3:3) "Tell them, 'O people of the Book, let us come to an agreement on that which is common between us, that we worship no one but God, and none his compeer, and none of us take any others for lord apart from God." (3:3) "Among the people of the Book is a section upright, who recite the scriptures in the hours of the night and bow in adoration and pray, And believe in God and the Last Day, and enjoin what is good and forbid what is wrong, and who hasten to give in charity; they are among the upright and the doers of good. And the good they do will not go unaccepted; for God is aware of those who keep away from evil." (3:113-115) and "To each of you We have given a law and a way and a pattern of life. If God had pleased, He could have surely have made you one people (professing one faith). But he wished to try and test you by that which he gave you. So try to excel in good deeds. To Him you will return in the end, when He will tell you of what you are at variance." (5;48)

I could go on and on, Margie. But this is the Qu'ran my fellow Americans who are Muslims read and follow.

Margie| 9.11.10 @ 3:41PM

Ms. Venom here:

The Koran is a book of Death. The Bible is The Book of Life.

It matters not how one tries to "interpret" it. The truth remains. Followers of Islam need to have the gospel of Jesus preached to them, as God commanded that ALL Christians do. It is LOVE to tell them the truth. That includes that their false God is a false God, and that the true God gave His only begotten Son to dies for their sins, and that Jesus is the only one who ever did this, and was risen from the dead, and lives now to make intercession for them.

All the moral equivocating on your part is just that.

You actually try and justify the Koran! Written by a pervert who married a nine year old girl. Written by a pervert who says to kill us, the infidels? What a shame. And you call yourself a Christian?

RCV| 9.11.10 @ 3:54PM

I do, Margie, and confidently so. I'm comfortable in my Christianity and try to be true to the teachings of Jesus.

You never answered my earlier question, have your ever really read the Qu'ran? I do not "justify it" nor do I believe in it. But it's so interesting that you purport to know it. You'd do yourself well to at least familiarize yourself with it if you intend to try to convert Muslims, because your ignorance of what they actually believe will cause them to reject your efforts right at the start. You might also read Karen Armstrong's fine biography of Muhammad as well. It pays to know what you're talking about before you spout off.

Margie| 9.11.10 @ 4:30PM

Christianity does not agree with the likes of Obama. He is a liar and like his father the Devil has fools like you following him. You are a dupe. A useful idiot. I suggest that you repent otherwise you are going to be one of the many who follow the one who calls himself "The man of peace."

Study the genuine article, the Bible. That is how you will be able to tell the counterfeits. You can't tell the diff. I am sorry for you!

RCV| 9.11.10 @ 4:38PM

Margie, I have studied the Bible all my life, and have read hundreds of books about it and its history. I am quite at peace with my God. I hope someday you find peace as well. You seem to be a very unhappy, embittered person who hates a lot. That's not what God wants us to be. But you have to find your own way, and I wish you well.

Margie| 9.11.10 @ 4:49PM

You are complacent is what you are. An Obamamaton. Reading hundreds of books does not make one a Christian but getting on your knees and begging for His mercy upon your soul does. You are nothing but a typical Leftist who equates hatred of evil with hatred of God. You are warped. You are backwards.

"Woe to those who call evil good and good evil, who put darkness for light and light for darkness, who put bitter for sweet and sweet for bitter!" Is. 5:20.

You'll go on defending the indefensible and I'll go on defending the Truth.

Rich D| 9.12.10 @ 5:24AM

Seriously? And you _still_ don't know who God's children are?!

Unbelievable!

L. Ross| 9.13.10 @ 12:54AM

RCV, are you familiar with the concept of the "Satanic Verses?" It is fairly simple. As mohammed began to spew additional ridiculousness from his cake-hole, it became so obvious that his followers called him out on it. To whit, what he wrote at the beginning of the koran had no relationship to what he wrote at the end of the koran. He labeled these incongruent teachings as "Satanic Verses." The "teachings of Satan." All the later teachings in the koran supersede the earlier teachings. But then, you would know that as a student of islam.

RCV| 9.13.10 @ 3:13PM

I do know it, L. Ross, and do not disagree with a word you have written (except perhaps "cake-hole").

Oldefarte| 9.11.10 @ 11:44AM

If they attend Muslim religious services, they [out of necessity, and due to peer pressure] ARE LYING TO YOU [since, in doing so, will read and FOLLOW the teachings/wording of the Quran]. The hyjackers of airplanes on 9/11/01 had previously BLENDED IN to society [American/German] as part of their DISGUISE/MASQUERADE!!!!!!!!!!!

Tony In Central PA| 9.10.10 @ 6:37PM

I am glad this article made mention of what has been happening to the mostly ancient, remnant Christian communities in Muslim nations i the Mid East and arond the Mediterranean. You can bet our news media will tell us about each and every Quran burning but skip telling us about the burning of Christian houses - - sometimes with Christians still inside - - in these countries.

Yosemeti Sam| 9.11.10 @ 12:44AM

" ... My own organization warned against the
Koran burnings' possible impact on already
persecuted Christians living in majority Muslim countries...."

Now, now - " ... warned ...."?

Well " ... Christians living in majority Muslim countries ...." can take care of themselves
according to the degree of FAITH they live by!

They don't need no stinking 'warnings' to protect them from EVIL!

Christ did not teach that following HIM would be a - cake walk. On the contrary FAITHFUL Christians observe:

Hebrews 11:37 - King James Bible: as to followers of CHRIST: " They were stoned, they were sawn asunder, were tempted, were slain with the sword: they wandered about in sheepskins and goatskins; being destitute, afflicted, tormented ...."

Talk about talking obsequiously on behalf of some empathetic speculative impact on Christians
in Muslim-ruled lands if some dubious Muslim religious book is torched!

I think Christians are up to speed - in their inner hearts:

Behold - The First Commandment!

Either live by it to the GLORY of the GOD of Moses or - live with the consequences
of tut-tutting it as equivalent to Baalist religions!

All other religions SHOULD take a back seat - or under the bus - on the religious express bus!

Simple, as simple as can be, paraphrasing - who is on the LORDs' side, let them come unto me!

Moreover - Yo, El Cid MO!

Margie| 9.11.10 @ 2:44PM

Excellent!

martin j smith| 9.11.10 @ 8:53AM

So all it takes is an "appaent" "nobody" to infalme the feelings of anger to the point of a threat of religious warfare. Th case is one I am not buying. Its the media that has enabled this guy to be where he is. As I have posted: he is either a "nut job" useful idiot for the MSM or a stooge. The issue for me is how quickly a nobody became a somebody. And, a rather destructive figure at that --for a cause of course. Lets prove there is Anti-islam bigotry. Is he a "useful idiot" or is he a stooge. ?
That is the question.

Margie| 9.11.10 @ 2:43PM

Obama is using this man to paint himself as "a man of peace." He aligns himself with Islam once again. Obama is a liar. Burning a Koran is not hateful, just as the disciples burned their books of false Religion. He wants to paint Christians as hateful. He is a LIAR.

John DuBose| 9.11.10 @ 12:12PM

Burning Korans is dumb.

They should simply read out loud the parts that
show how disgusting that world view can be.

The way to defeat a bad idea is to shine light on it.

Nick| 9.11.10 @ 12:50PM

I try to live by the Christian teaching of "do unto others, as you would have others do unto you."

I don't like it when the Catholic Church is bashed by anti-Catholic bigots. I don't like it when images of Christ, or the Virgin Mary, are desecrated, as has been done many times in the past. I don't like it when homos dress up as nuns in a parade.

So, I wouldn't intentionally disrespect some other religion's sacred objects or symbols.

But, this is America. No one can be prohibited from desecrating the things I hold sacred, or what others hold sacred. As it should be. I don't want the government to be the arbiter of which group can be offended, and which one can't.

This pastor shouldn't burn the Koran, not because of what kook Moslems around the world might do. Or, because government officials don't want him to.

He shouldn't do it because if you want REASONABLE people to respect your beliefs, you should show respect to their beliefs. By burning the Koran, he would be disrespecting all Moslems. The peaceful along with the hatefilled.

Though, I think I understand the point he is trying to make about who the tolerant ones really are.

Margie| 9.11.10 @ 2:39PM

Many Catholics do not "respect" Bible based Christians, nor do they consider them "reasonable." Much like they wouldn't consider the disciples "reasonable" for burning their books of false Religions, I suppose.

There is no respect given to a Religion of death because it deserves none. Burning a Koran isn't wrong. It's a matter of conscience.

Many came to Christ BECAUSE the disciples burned those books. The people RESPECTED them for it. What I condemn is Obama's phony condemnation of the Christian pastor, and I also condemn the Pope for condemning him as well. I have no respect for cowards.

Nick| 9.11.10 @ 4:46PM

Margie,

I'm sure there are Catholics who do not respect Bible based Christians. I think you know that I'm not one of them, right? I don't have much respect for any Catholic who does not respect other Christians, who themselves are respectful.

Also, I couldn't find where Pope Benedict XVI condemned anyone. The Vatican issued a statement that condemned the act, but not the pastor. Although, I couldn't find a link to the whole statement, so I can't say if I agree with everything in it, or not.

People in the Vatican issue statements all the time. The Pope does not read every statement and sign-off on them. This has gotten some people at the Vatican in trouble, in the past.

So, you might want to cut Pope Benedict some slack on this one.

All I meant by "REASONABLE people" were reasonable Moslems. I believe respect is a two way street. If you want respect, you should show respect. This doesn't mean you have to respect those who advocate terrorism, or those who sympathize with those who do.

Hope that clarifies things, Margie. Say, "Hi" to Victor.
God Bless!

Margie| 9.11.10 @ 5:06PM

Nick,

You're a gentleman and I respect you for that.

Almost 2 years ago we had some back and forth arguing here and we both called it quits and since then have never attacked me personally no matter what I've said about your Religion. I think you know that it's the doctrines I oppose and not the individuals who believe them. (Except for when they attack me personally). I only "go to war" against them here because it's an open forum to do so, like a public place to gather and voice opinions.

Anyway~ I just think that Obama used this pastor to try and present Christians in a bad light. He is a deceiver and a liar. Why even do this? It is to show once again that he is on the side of Islam. I mean, so what if someone wants to burn this horrible book filled with lies and murder? I despise what he said today, making it look as if Christians are the troublemakers, rather than Islam and their murderous terrorists. What a disgrace. And why weren't conservative leaders backing this man's freedom to do so instead of calling him a kook?

Talk about the principle of the matter!

'Nuff said.

God bless.

Nick| 9.11.10 @ 6:02PM

Margie,

On O'Bama we are in COMPLETE agreement. He is a phony and should keep his big trap shut!

I'm glad we can consider each other friends and still agree to disagree on certain things. Fellow Christians fighting the good fight.

Too bad liberals can't do the same! Ha-ha!

RCV| 9.11.10 @ 2:55PM

The disciples burned their own former pagan books, not the holy books of others to spite them. Your anti-Catholic diatribes are as offensive as your anti-Muslim rants. The Pope is a far more exemplary Christian than you, Ms. Venom.

Margie| 9.11.10 @ 3:09PM

So saith the Obama lover.

Tim*| 9.12.10 @ 8:20PM

Apocalyptic Religion of Margie Crank can repeat to all The AS Readers where she thinks practicing Jews and Muslims go when they die .

RCV| 9.12.10 @ 11:08PM

Give it a rest, Tim. We're attempting to have serious dialogue and you continue to act like a little child. Grow up.

Margie| 9.12.10 @ 11:19PM

I'd be concerned about where you're going when you die, there Timmy.

martin j smith| 9.11.10 @ 3:31PM

I can now say that I am not so sure that the Rev Jones is a complete or "useful idiot". I read that he has called off his "Koran Burning" because G-D "told him". My intuition says He told himself well before anyone told him. I now am wondering if we have a much more clever guy who knows how to manipulate the media and in the end he drove circles around Obama, Patreus and their whole crowd together then says--OK I will not do it. What I find amusing in all this is how he drove everyone into a tizzy, how me connected the 9/11 Mosque fiasco with his Koran Burning and then looks " reasonable" by" listening" to "reason."
Meanwhile there are riots in abroad just on the idea that this guy MIGHT burn Koran (s ). And meanwhile this same group of thugs In places like Pakistan burn American Flags, Jewish and Christian symbols and all that and that is ok ? Also, this "deal" worked out with the Imam Rauf, who knows what that was about but there sure as heck was an Imam standing next to Terry Jones . Terry Jones was foolish if he went ahead with his plan but I would bet that he is no fool ( not a complete fool anyway ) and he did a very clever peice of work on a lot of people. There are many who would say that Jones put our troups at risk( or greater risk ). However, I would say this: If by doing something that Muslims do not like in our country puts our troups at risk the I say: This is exactly what 9/11 attacks were and are all about. Does than mean as Imam Rauf says we must give them their 9/11 Mosque or we will be attacked ? My feeling is: Perhaps Imam Rauf should consider relocating back to his home country if he does not like our Democracy. Perhaps Mayor Bloomberg can relocate to Toronto or London.

Purple Lips| 9.12.10 @ 8:32PM

I'm all for burning Jack Chick pamphlets. The caroons are cartoonish, and the prose is no better.

Margie| 9.12.10 @ 11:18PM

Are you talking about those little Biblical pamphlets that Christians hand out?

Purple Lips| 9.13.10 @ 7:33AM

Oh yes. Those little tracts that contain cartoons about devil worshipping priests, and those rascally Catholics who are on a 1 track road to Hell. Usually, Fundementalists put them under the windshield wipers of automobiles that are parked in Catholic Church parking lots during Mass. Like the jihadists, Chick believes Catholics are pagan infidels. Over the last 3 decades he had printed millions of these things. They actually belong in the Simthsonian -a bit of Americana, if you will.

Margie| 9.13.10 @ 1:44PM

The Catholic Religion is full of false doctrine. In fact the doctrines of demons, as the Bible states in just one area:

"Now the Spirit expressly says that in later times some will depart from the faith by giving heed to deceitful spirits and doctrines of demons, through the pretensions of liars whose consciences are seared, who forbid Marriage and enjoin abstinence from foods which God created to be received with thanksgiving by those who believe and know the truth." 1 Tim. 4:1-3.

And that is just one of numerous un-Biblical doctrines.

If you are a Christian you want to be Biblical. Otherwise you follow a lie.

RCV| 9.13.10 @ 2:44PM

Margie - It was a Catholic church council that put together the books you worship into the New Testament. Your smugness is showing again. Maybe that's what led St. Paul to write (though it's also bad advice, and I'm glad you don't follow it): "I permit no woman to teach, or to have authority over a man; she is to keep silent." :)

Margie| 9.13.10 @ 2:55PM

Sorry RCV~ it is you who is smug. You say the Bible isn't true and pick and choose which to believe. You are an unbeliever and call God a liar. I just quoted the Bible and yet you completely disregard it and accuse me of a falsehood.

You are insane.

RCV| 9.13.10 @ 3:03PM

And I just quoted you the Bible, and you completely disregard it again.

Margie| 9.13.10 @ 3:42PM

You really are a game playing little weasel aren't you? You claim the Bible is untrue and prove yourself to be an unbeliever and yet have the spine to use it against me? So which is it, true or untrue? Hmm?

RCV| 9.13.10 @ 5:04PM

Gee, I'm sorry if I was so presumptuous to quote the Bible to you. I forgot that it was your sole perogative to do so. I've explained to Nick above my view of the Bible as a God-inspired collection of human writings with so much to teach us and lead us on the right path. The greatest book in history. But error-free? No. Literal? No.

God spoke to us in parables when he was on this earth, manifest as the Christ. He spoke in parables to many in earlier centuries, and some of those conversations are imperfectly preserved in some of the books contained in what we call the Bible (chosen by a Catholic council). But the actual words of God? No. Many parts of the Bible are people praying or talking to God - they don't even purport to be God's words. Paul is writing letters to his friends and to believers around the world. He was far too humble a man to believe his words were the words of God. You shouldn't place him on that level, either.

Margie| 9.13.10 @ 9:47PM

You're a liar.

RCV| 9.13.10 @ 10:12PM

Your mother wears combat boots!

Stop being so petulant when people disagree with you.

Margie| 9.14.10 @ 1:22AM

You're a blatant liar.

RCV| 9.14.10 @ 12:47PM

And you are a sad and embittered woman, full of hate. You are the kind of person who drives people from Christ and his embracing love. I hope some day you'll find the peace that God meant you to have. God bless.

RCV| 9.14.10 @ 12:49PM

Margie, are you really saying that you believe Catholicism to be demonic? Do you believe the Pope to be the Anti-Christ?

Jeffrey| 9.12.10 @ 11:48PM

Is it wrong to stand up to lies like " Islam is a religion of peace"? No! Is it wrong that we resurrected the Muslim Caliphate by enriching them with billions in petro dollars? Yes! So a simple man with a simple faith turns the world upside down yet once again. Then the apologists crawl out of the wood work to say "we are afraid that this will incite violence against our fellow Christians in their Muslim countries" well where the hell have they been for the last 80 years and longer? 'Slaughter the Christians and Jews' has been the Islamic mantra for over a 1000 years. Wake the hell up foolish Pastors and Priests and stop yelling peace peace when there is no peace. Yes the deception is powerful but the faith of a simple man can break it in a single day. Amen.

Dave (now in S. Korea)| 9.13.10 @ 8:41AM

"Called 'Beyond Park 51: Religious Leaders Denounce Anti-Muslim Bigotry and Call for Respect for America's Tradition of Religious Liberty . . . .'" I might be wrong, but I thought it was part of my American tradition of religious liberty to have the right to be anti-Islam.

How can a Christian say the following about the Koran: I am "appalled by such disrespect for a sacred text that for centuries has shaped many of the great cultures of our world, and that continues to give spiritual comfort to more than a billion Muslims today?" The Koran is not a sacred text within Christianity, in fact it is a pack of lies. Salman Rushdie said it best when he called it "Satanic Verses." Also, name a single great culture that Islam has shaped let alone many?

These Christian "leaders" should have only one thing to say to the Muslim Imams they join with at these interfaith gatherings: "Repent and believe in Jesus Christ, God's one and only Son and author of the World's salvation"

RCV| 9.13.10 @ 12:29PM

Dave, Salman Rushdie didn't call the Qur'an "Satanic Verses". The term refers to certain passages that Mohammed originally believed to be the word of God but then later concluded were messages from the devil. It's a term of art whose meaning is clear to all who are familiar with the Qur'an.

Margie| 9.13.10 @ 2:02PM

If Mohammed, the child molester and man who married a nine year old girl was interested in the Truth, he would have read the Bible, and professed the True God. The man was a pervert and thankfully he is dead and in Hell.

And through the testimonies of Christians today many Muslims have turned to Christ. And many of them are murdered by their fellow Muhammidians for doing so, proving once again that the god of the Koran is not the God of the Holy Bible.

RCV| 9.13.10 @ 2:32PM

Mohammed clearly did read the Bible, Margie -- it's where he stole most of the OT and NT information he got to write the Qur'an. As Karen Armstrong points out in her biography of him, Mohammed actually thought he was not inventing a new religion, but bringing the Judeo-Christian faith that he had learned from Jews and Christian traders to the pagan tribes of Arabia. He was shocked when the Jews of Medina rightly rejected his "revelation", and that was the source of much of his enmity toward them.

He was indeed betrothed to a nine-year old bride, Aisha, as was the custom of the Bedouins of that age. The incest and polygamy recorded in the OT of the Jewish prophets and kings isn't much prettier. They were all primitive societies.

Margie| 9.13.10 @ 3:45PM

And your point is? Oh wait. I already know. It is to try and JUSTIFY your picking and choosing of which parts of God's words you decide to listen to.

RCV| 9.13.10 @ 4:56PM

You're teaching again, Margie. Be silent. (I Timothy 2:12.)

Actually, Margie, feel free to teach because it's St.Paul speaking, not God. And many modern Biblical scholars doubt it was Paul speaking in that sentence, since it is so out of character with his actual ministry and his belief that in Christ, there is no male or female. Most likely a later student of Paul's adding his own misogynist view.

Margie| 9.13.10 @ 9:44PM

RCV,

That verse has to do with being in a certain setting where the brothers and sisters in Christ are gathered together in His Name. (That is the Biblical definition of church, Mt. 18:20.) It is for the brothers to teach and lead. That is what the passage is talking about, so you are using it wrongly.

Once again you misjudge the Bible and the Apostles. If you do not believe what is written and that men moved by the Holy Spirit wrote the Bible, then please don't try and use it to teach me. Or anyone for that matter.

Your mind can only be awakened by that same Holy Spirit. Then you will be able to see that everything God spoke in the Bible through these men is true.

RCV| 9.13.10 @ 10:20PM

The Little Weasel Here.

I thought the words were always to be taken literally, not subject to individual interpretation. Paul says nothing about keeping silent in Church only. He goes on to say that woman transgressed in Eden by disobeying God, and that is why they are to give no direction to men. Go back and read the full paragraph carefully.

Of course, as I said, it is likely that Paul himself did not write that passage, since we know from his ministry that he in fact had women who leaders and teachers in congregation.

RCV| 9.13.10 @ 10:24PM

...and you and people who believe like you don't own Christianity. The rest of us will continue to practice and teach the Word as we know it, so people can see that there is love in faith in Christ, not bitterness, hatred, hardness and spite.

Margie| 9.14.10 @ 1:21AM

Right. Whatever parts suit your fancy, eh? Fraud.

RCV| 9.14.10 @ 12:24PM

...always a good and kind word for her fellow men. God bless and keep you, Margie.

Joanna| 6.6.11 @ 5:48AM

I agree with most of these comments too.
UTI Treatment

Christian Louboutin| 6.23.11 @ 6:08AM

Tragically, whole Christian villages overseas can be torched by Islamist mobs and not receive 1 percent of the global limelight that the possible destruction of one book has extravagantly received.