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Special Report
Religious Coalition Slams Alveda King
The Rev. Martin Luther King’s niece come under fire from pro-abortion critics of the Glenn Beck rally.
Glenn Beck got a lot of flak for his August 28 spiritual rally at the Lincoln Memorial from some who alleged he was usurping the memory of Martin Luther King’s iconic 1963 “I Have a Dream” speech there.
But equally as noteworthy was a religious pro-abortion coalition, including several Mainline denominations, which lashed out at another speaker at the Beck Rally, King’s niece Alveda King, for her pro-life advocacy.
The Religious Coalition for Reproductive Choice (RCRC) held a press conference in Washington on August 26 with several African-American clergy seeking to discredit Alveda King as part of a conservative effort to “hijack the civil rights movement for its own political agenda,” according to Reverend Dr. Walter Fauntroy, chief Washington, D.C. organizer of the 1963 March on Washington.
While RCRC is comprised exclusively of nearly all-white Mainline denominations and liberal activist groups, among them Catholics for a Free Choice, the group has an extensive outreach to African Americans through its National Black Church Initiative. Among its programs has been the National Black Religious Summit on Sexuality, held annually at Washington’s Howard University, and which has tried subtly to promote pro-abortion themes in church curricula and to liberalize church teaching about sexual ethics.
King directs the African-American outreach for Priests for Life and has spearheaded a campaign to raise awareness about abortion’s impact on the black population. “The ‘Religious Right’ billboard campaign asserting that African American children are an ‘endangered species’ and Alveda King’s comparison of anti-abortion activists to ‘Freedom Riders’ have sparked outrage in the African American community,” charged RCRC President Carlton Veazey.
RCRC was founded in 1973 by primarily white Mainline Protestants to defend Roe v. Wade against Roman Catholic and other pro-life religious voices. Unwilling to grant the desirability of any restriction on abortion, RCRC over the years has even defended the legality of partial-birth abortions and of transporting minors across state lines for abortions. Agencies of the United Methodist Church, Presbyterian Church (USA), United Church of Christ, and the Episcopal Church are RCRC’s leading members.
Responding to RCRC, King was unapologetic in defending her pro-life views and participation in the Beck rally. “It is absolutely ludicrous that abortion supporters would accuse a blood relative of Dr. King of hijacking the King legacy. Uncle Martin and my father, Rev. A. D. King were blood brothers,” King said in a statement. “How can I hijack something that belongs to me? I am an heir to the King Family legacy.” Not unreasonably, she insisted: “I have a right to stand at the Lincoln Memorial on the 47th Anniversary of my Uncle’s ‘I Have A Dream’ speech.”
Dr. Timothy McDonald, Pastor of First Iconium Baptist Church in Atlanta and a past member of the RCRC Board, insisted that King was attempting to “rewrite history” and that the elder King and his wife Coretta Scott King “supported family planning services.”
But the younger King insisted: “The Dream has yet to be realized.” And she asserted: “That Dream is in my genes and I carry forward in the fight for equality and justice for all blacks, including those in the womb.” King said that her father and uncle gave their lives to ensure that the day would come when blacks would be judged not by the color of their skin, but the content of their character: “If they were here, I know they would stand with me in this fight for the lives of those most vulnerable among us.”
Priests for Life reports that 78 percent of Planned Parenthood clinics are in minority communities. While blacks make up 12 percent of the population they account for 35 percent of all abortions in the United States. King and pro-life black clergy have alleged that the disproportionate impact of abortion upon the black community has been a targeted effort. Noting that 50 percent of pregnancies within the black community end in abortion, these leaders charge it is the result of campaigns originally instigated by racially motivated eugenicists early in the 20th century. Foremost among their examples is Margaret Sanger, founder of Planned Parenthood, who wrote of eliminating “undesirable populations.”
RCRC sought to refute the charge in a statement available on its website from Jill Morrison, senior counsel in reproductive health and rights at the National Women’s Law Center. She characterized claims that abortion in the African-American community amounts to genocide as an “attempt to infantilize, dehumanize and objectify black women under the guise of protecting the race.” Loretta Ross, national coordinator of SisterSong Women of Color Reproductive Health Collective called claims of genocide “racist, sexist and anti-Semitic” and an affront to the millions who died in the Nazi Holocaust.
Several black pro-life leaders backed King in their disagreement with RCRC. “More and more of Black Americans understand the eugenics agenda of Planned Parenthood and other abortion providers to control the black birth rate through abortion. And because we understand, we are standing with Alveda King in solidarity, continuing the fight for black life from its earliest beginnings,” Catherine Davis of Georgia Right to Life told LifeNews, a pro-life news service.
Although RCRC has several African-American officers, including Veazey and RCRC Chairman Alton B. Pollard III, Dean of Howard University School of Divinity, none of the historically black denominations is affiliated with RCRC. Typically socially and theologically conservative, especially compared to white Mainline churches, most black churches are probably closer to Alveda King than RCRC on abortion. Maybe this explains why RCRC is trying to target black churches, and why Alveda King’s pro-life advocacy, especially at the high profile Beck rally, so enraged groups like RCRC.
About the Author
Jeff Walton directs the Anglican program at the Institute on Religion and Democracy in Washington, D.C.
Letter to the Editor View all comments (97) | Leave a comment
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JOTHEPRO| 9.8.10 @ 6:49AM
I have often wondered how anyone that calls themselves a Christian and/or a believer in God, can think it is alright to kill babies in the womb. The people who push this scummy thinking are evil.
Patrick| 9.8.10 @ 2:57PM
I prefer to use Luke 1:41-44 just for such occasions.
Denial of the person within the womb is denial of the Incarnation.
Anathema sit.
T1Brit| 9.9.10 @ 8:37AM
Every intelligent human being who cares about human suffering and the future of the human race is for abortion if the baby is unwanted by it's natural parents.
The only people who are against it are religious creeps who have sold themselves to the gigantic pantomime of judaeo-christian fairy tales out of a fundamental cowardice about death and lack of moral fibre to face life as a free individual.
The day will come when religious people will be regarded in the same way as paedophiles or schitzophrenics - incurably mad and a danger to themselves and others.
Robert| 9.9.10 @ 1:19PM
Interesting point of view but a very weak argument to label people against abortion as "religious creeps". You should be careful in exposing yourself by your writing. To conclude that pro-life is solely a "religious" persons belief is wrong, and to attack "religious people" under the guise of promoting abortion is, unfortunately, a testimony to your own bigotry, hate and intolerance. The true argument begins where the article suggests, with Margaret Sanger, the eugenics movement and those that truly lack moral fiber.
Fredrick Ward| 9.9.10 @ 6:32PM
So, you promote expediency, and convenience, over personal responsibility then. If the child is not wanted then the persons in question should take necessary precautions against becoming pregnant. Of course, I know that the public school systems do not believe in abstinence, but, in fact, it actually works. For those who do not wish to refrain then there are contraceptives to prevent pregnancy.
Your argument also shows a very limited understanding of the subject of abortion. You stated, "Every intelligent human being who cares about human suffering and the future of the human race is for abortion.." Well, I have one question for you. What about the baby in the womb? Do you care about it's suffering? Obviously not since you support abortion, and it has been proven that a fetus is able to feel pain. Evaluation of fetal responses have shown that as early as twelve weeks a fetus reacts to intrusions of the womb, and poking. As an intelligent human being wouldn't it be logical to conclude that such a reaction shows awareness of surroundings, and natural responses for self preservation? I suspect that such inconvenient scientific research is devoid of merit for such as you, though.
In relation to your obvious abhorrence to religion, I find that you have little facts and a great deal of personal hatred. Therefore, the very premise of your argument is held into question. You say that religious people show cowardice towards death. Well, such thinking is definitely not factual since many religious people have given their lives for their beliefs; whether good or bad. Wouldn't you say that such acts debunk your claim of cowardice? You also speak of moral fiber. Morality is at the core of Christianity. It teaches to love your neighbor, and help others in need. It teaches us to be responsible for our actions, and hold accountable one another for the deeds we do. It even teaches us to pay our taxes, and to pray for those in leadership; including the President. I wonder what you find morally wrong with any of this.
The only fact that has come into play with your whole response is that you are full of hate, and bigotry without any actual facts to back you up whatsoever.
Mayte| 9.9.10 @ 9:03PM
Seems to me, by your language, that the dangerous sociopath is you. I don't like the abortion debate because I see both points as having validity depending on the situation. However, I do not understand the obsession of placing Planned Parenthood Clinics in minority communities or the obsession with abortion on demand or the insistance to never attempt to change the mind of a young woman seeking an abortion by say showing her the ultrasound. I've had an abortion --when I was very young and irresponsible and I think back and try to imagine if knowing what I know now I would have made the same decision. When I was pregnant 3 years ago and eager to have a wonderful healthy pregnancy, I went to my OB early and had an ultrasound at 12 weeks. I could not believe what I saw and my emotional reaction. As a physician, I should have known, but I knew in such a cold and objective way. It is quite something to see the fully developed body of a 12 week old fetus, with his heart beating, his arms and legs moving and finding out that early that he is a boy!! My first thought was "Oh my God, I can't believe I had an abortion so many years ago." At least I aborted at 7 weeks, very early, and I want to think that at that stage there is no pain. With current technology, the living fetus seems to appear extremely primitive at 7 weeks, but only 5 weeks later it was amazing to watch. So, enlighten yourself. You seem extremely ignorant and in need of psychiatric help or even institutionalization.
American Girl | 9.10.10 @ 12:34AM
So all those adopted children should simply have been aborted, notwithstanding the joy they brought to their adoptive parents, their own rich lives, their contributions to society? So let me get your "humanitarian" viewpoint straight, then: if a woman or man is personally unwilling to give the love, food, or care their child needs, they should just kill them. After all, no one has any moral obligation to obligation to find or provide love, food, and care to anyone. Hey, why stop there? I guess Mother Teresa, who was staunchly pro-life, so, according to you, was not an "intelligent human being who cares about human suffering and the future of the human race." So, why did she help the sick and hungry on the streets of Calcutta? If she really cared about them, she should have just offed them. Thank you, but I will take "religious creeps" over your kind any day of the week, and you should be thankful that I and other people like me feel the same. Sure, you are "pro-life" when it comes to your own life; the difference with us "religious people" is we actually think other people's lives are worth something, as well.
Alpfrodo| 9.10.10 @ 4:35PM
If there is no God. If life is not Sacred. If we are not to be held accountable in the next life for our actions in this life. If man is just another accident of evolution, then why would any intelligent person care “…about human suffering and the future of the human race…”? Try to think your positions through T1Brit before you begin spouting off.
Stevia| 9.10.10 @ 6:49PM
Mr. Adjective:
I could have sworn you were Obama, with all those adjectives, so you could look really smart.
In all you say, you tell me you know nothing. You have NO IDEA how many babies are wanted...just by another womb-holder. The lines waiting for babies are staggering. So talk about cowardice; there is another choice, but the abortionists have denied those open arms.
Secondly, your threat in your last paragraph in which you gloat about "religious people...regarded...as pedophiles (learn to spell) or schizophrenics (learn to spell) - incurably mad..." tells me you are a chip off the old Hitler block. Would concentrations and "testing" hospitals be your cure to handling these un-useful people?
Mikael| 9.10.10 @ 7:22PM
I love and support your comments.
Thanks, I needed to hear that today in a world of so much hate and negativity from those who call themselves saved.
Jordan| 9.12.10 @ 6:04AM
How truly pathetic that we find many of our religious leaders who now seek to please men instead of God! For truly it is written that in the last days men will become lovers of self more than lovers of God. Blind teachers leading the blind, who fullfill the desires of their own flesh so that they may receive the praise of foolish men.
For I am but a bond servant to my holy Lord Jesus Christ, who has called me, by the will of the Father, to bear witness to the truth. Called by the power and the will of the living God and sealed unto Him by the power of the blood of Christ and the revelation of the Holy Ghost!
How long will God withhold His wrath from those who pervert the gospel of Jesus Christ? How long will He suffer the shedding of innocent blood? Woe unto you false teachers and blind leaders, who make merchandise of the gospel of Christ, for you deceive many! Is it not written: "Thou shalt not kill". (murder) Are you so wise that you reject the truth and espouse a lie which tickles the ears of foolish men? Is it not written that by Him all things were made and without Him nothing was made? Is it not written that in all things is the breath of life that cometh from Him?
Liars and hypocrits, surely you shall receive your reward!
Don Miller| 9.9.10 @ 9:00PM
You are absolutely correct. I can't believe it either.
Bill Hussein O'Stalin| 9.8.10 @ 6:58AM
Anyone who honors life can not worship at the church of secular humanism and pray to the Gods of collectivism.
Margie| 9.8.10 @ 3:12PM
Ooo, very good!
T1Brit| 9.9.10 @ 8:41AM
Well done - you get a star for cutting and pasting.
Can you explain for what reason secular humanism is incompatible with honoring life?
No you can't. Not without an awful lot more cutting and pasting.
Mayte| 9.9.10 @ 9:05PM
Secular humanism supports death. Abortion, assisted suicide, and things that involve government control in people's lives --in general the OPPOSITE of honoring life and letting people live as they wish. Again, your language is sophomoric.
Appleby| 9.8.10 @ 7:07AM
The eagerness of the pro-abortion troops in and out of the Black churches to abort their future reminds me of the habit the Blacks have of rioting, looting and burning in their own neighbourhoods and then standing in the ruins crying that they need HEP.
When they have aborted their future, and alienated the white folks, who will provide that HEP?
Stephanie| 9.8.10 @ 3:06PM
Al Sharpton, Charlie Rangle and Maxine H2Os
Yvonne| 9.9.10 @ 1:20AM
At the rate whites are aborting, there will be none them to HEP anyone.
By the way, living in cities like LA can turn anyone (any color) into looters, etc...
Ryan| 9.8.10 @ 7:18AM
Again, we see the mainline churches more concerned with something that isn't furthering the Gospel.
drudge ette obama| 9.8.10 @ 7:20AM
Ideology knows no color. Rev. Alveda King has learned this, as have others, like Clarence Thomas, Condi Rice and Michael Steele. It all traces back to power and some people's reluctance to lose it.
Blacks are in the middle and soon it will be the Mexican illegals.
Keep fighting, Rev. King. I didn't think that you would consider stopping - but just in case you have given it some thought, I back your efforts.
Richard Baker| 9.8.10 @ 7:34AM
Wasn't Margaret Sanger an advocate for abortions for blacks to reduce their numbers? Do correct me if I've erred.
JimH| 9.8.10 @ 8:35AM
And Jews, Irish and other inferior races as well as the feeble minded and otherwise unfit.
Maynard Walden| 9.9.10 @ 10:30PM
It sounds to me you hate every other raceexcept yours.By the waw which one are you?
Xenophon| 9.10.10 @ 3:59AM
Maynard, you misread JimH's post. He is simply recounting Margaret Sanger's well-known policy proposals regarding the elimination of those groups she considered inferior. She, the founder of Planned Parenthood and still its "patron saint," was the one who hated every race except her own.
Char| 9.11.10 @ 8:25PM
What you said, Xeno.
John3| 9.8.10 @ 11:56PM
Yes, you are correct. And she also targeted many immigrant groups: Poles, Italians and Irish. Now, Planned Parenthood targets African Americans and Hispanics.
Ken (Old Texican)| 9.8.10 @ 8:15AM
Someone help me here.
I understand that there is now an tiny implant birth control thingy that extends protection from pregnancy for a full year.
Couldn't someone set up a distribution system and an incentive system to offer one?
Yvonne| 9.9.10 @ 1:37AM
That thingy is called Norplant. It lasts for up to 5 years. It is highly dangerous and killed many women our country tested it upon without their knowledge or consent. Also, no doctor wants to take them out because the capsules burrow into the muscle tissue in the arm requiring the doctor to cut through muscles to get them out.
When I volunterred at a crisis pregnancy center, I had an 11-year old girl come in with this implant. I asked how she got it (supposed to be only for adult women). Her mother had her doctor put it in. I was furious. How could a mother do this to her own child?
Birth control drugs are extremely harmful to the body. Think how powerful a drug has to be in order to stop an entire bodily function?
Women suffer strokes, blood clots and breast cancer (and many more side effects) due to these unnecessary drugs.
Pregnancy is not something to protect oneself from- but something to joyfully look forward to.
There is a great and easy way to avoid pregnancy- do not have sex until you are married. This is not that hard. We have no problem telling our teens: "Just say NO to drugs" but, think them complete animals when it comes to sex.
Parents teach your children about avoiding near occasions of sin (being alone with opposite sex- for one) and teach them self-control at an early age (say 4-yrs old) and then when they really need it, they'll use it just fine.
Sorry about the long post, but this "give them a pill- that'll fix it" mentality has got to stop.
Prescriptions are a poor substitute for proper parenting.
Stevia| 9.10.10 @ 6:54PM
AMEN! AMEN! AMEN! and AMEN!!!!!
You go girl. I loved every word.
T1Brit| 9.9.10 @ 8:44AM
No need. Erectile dysfunction is already preventing the spread of Old Texicans
Robert| 9.9.10 @ 1:26PM
To T1Brit: You must have a lot of anger stored up inside...you portray yourself as angry, hateful and unintelligent...I'm not suggesting that you are, nor are these criticisms or judgments, just recognition of your state of mind through your writing...very sad state indeed.
Mayte| 9.9.10 @ 9:07PM
Robert: I was about to say something similar but you stated it so well.
Stevia| 9.10.10 @ 6:55PM
DITTO!
Petronius| 9.8.10 @ 8:40AM
It's all in how you define, or if Liberal, redefine "rights". Our Declaration proclaims the Right to Life. The Left observes this only in the cases of unwed teens and welfare queens as the "right" they care about is fornication without consequence. Sexual hedonism is their favorite method of destroying the family in addition to generating need for abortion services.
Liberals are afraid that other people will have children who would grow up to be competent, well adjusted, productive, loving, and totally unlike them. Maybe we will see the day when the RCRC gets it through their collective ego that self destruction is it's own reward and have to admit that enough is long past enough, like Yul Brynner in The 10 Commandments. Let us hear them say it. "His God, Is God!"
Tim*| 9.8.10 @ 8:53AM
Some other Member Organizations Culprits :
# Rabbinical Assembly
# United Synagogue of Conservative Judaism
# Women's League for Conservative Judaism
# The Episcopal Church
# American Ethical Union National Service Conference
# Society for Humanistic Judaism
# Presbyterian Church (USA) and Presbyterians Affirming Reproductive Options (PARO) of the Presbyterian Church (USA)
# Jewish Reconstructionalist Federation
# Reconstructionalist Rabbinical Association
# Central Conference of American Rabbis
# North American Federation of Temple Youth
# Women of Reform Judaism, The Federation of Temple Sisterhoods
# Women's Rabbinic Network of Central Conference of American Rabbis
# The United Church of Christ
# The General Board of Church and Society of The United Methodist Church
# The General Board of Global Ministries, Women's Division of the United Methodist Church
# Unitarian Universalist Association
# Unitarian Universalist Women's Federation
# Young Religious Unitarian Universalists
# Continental Unitarian Universalist Young Adult Network
# American Jewish Committee
# American Jewish Congress
# Anti-Defamation League
# Christian Lesbians Out (CLOUT)
# Church of the Brethren Women's Caucus
# Disciples for Choice
# Episcopal Urban Caucus
# Episcopal Women's Caucus
# Hadassah, WZOA
# Jewish Women International
# Lutheran Women's Caucus
# Methodist Federation for Social Action
# NA'AMAT USA
# National Council of Jewish Women
# Women's American ORT
# YWCA of the USA
ddn| 9.8.10 @ 11:57AM
The hall of shame. "Come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord."
Stephanie| 9.8.10 @ 3:10PM
It makes me sick that my church is among this lot.
spyder308| 9.9.10 @ 12:30PM
None of these organizations are "in favor of abortion." It is a tramatic act. No one is in favor of it. Most of them do believe it is a moral issue, and government can not legislate morals. Churches and families teach morals in accordance with their beliefs.
John Hemmer| 9.9.10 @ 11:30PM
spyder308, you say...."None of these ..., and government can not legislate morals. "
Oh but government legislate morals all the time...
i.e. against: murder, theft, fraud, etc. So your statement is nonsense!
Char| 9.11.10 @ 8:31PM
Au contraire, spyder. They are "in favor of abortion" It has nothing to do with government. It has all to do with a leftwing mindset. Every single one of these organizations, as far as I can see are leftwing.
Check out their websites for awhile. I think the light will dawn.
ton| 9.9.10 @ 3:17PM
Look quickly at the list; they are all vanishing faster than a Episcopalian at a pro-life rally. Defending the murder of babies is the last step on the ladder to complete apostasy. Good riddance; the protestant experiment has failed miserably; true Christians are returning to the Mother Church and the rest are wallowing in self-worship and hedonism.
Stevia| 9.10.10 @ 7:04PM
I don't know about the mother church, I would say the church without all the man-made. People who get into the Word have a different compass...the Lord, a daily relationship that doesn't have to be checked at the door. It isn't dictated by a church charter, but by a submission of the character. Then a non man-made church is sought out by that individual who is enlightened, and seeks out others that are like-minded...and in the Word, and in that same loving submissive relationship with Jesus Christ.
NavyBrat | 9.8.10 @ 9:02AM
Nice to see that the eugenecists have infiltrated religion as well. You know, I once thought that eugenics was the sole purview of G*d hating intellectuals. But now that I know that those G*d hating intellectuals have infiltrated their doctrines into the church, this isn't a stretch to believe. Sad, but not a stretch. I guess when they say that the greatest trick the devil ever played was convincing the world he didn't exist, they ain't kidding.
These charlatans of G*d will get their comuppance. He doesn't forget those who use faith as a weapon against the faithful. And to all those black folks who think that these nice white liberals have their best interests at heart, I suggest you look up the genocidal stats for the number of black kids who have been aborted since the late 70's. I mean hell, we've got a guy in the White House who believes in infanticide!Sanger & Mengele would be proud at how their messages have now become mainstream & acceptable.
"All propaganda must be so popular and on such an intellectual level, that even the most stupid of those toward whom it is directed will understand it... Through clever and constant application of propaganda, people can be made to see paradise as hell, and also the other way around, to consider the most wretched sort of life as paradise."...Adolf Hitler
Chilling, ain't it?
NavyBrat | 9.8.10 @ 9:05AM
And yes, there are FAR too many of my fellow Jews who believe in the exact same myth. Sorry, for not mentioning that. How anyone, Christian or Jew, can believe such a thing is WAY beyond me. Again the word that comes to mind is "charlatan."
MFay| 9.8.10 @ 12:04PM
How infuriating that people who believe they are Jewish should negate one of the most important things that those they would claim as ancestors gave to the world: the idea of respecting life. Sure, you can step around a worm or throw a fly back out the window but human nature DEMANDS as a prerequisite the idea that human life itself is precious and that human life (with no start date even implied) is worth respecting as the first step towards earning respect back from other human beings as the first step towards even having a civilized society worth continuing... Let's begin to use, as appropriate the analytical tools developed over the past century and a half and label the homicidal ideologies that justify abortion on demand as just that. How quaint and typical of human behavior that Yom Kippur exists just when semi-aware, self-hating Jews need an "out" for their affront to their religion, their unfortunate history and the consciousness that the story of Moses receiving the Law is intended to communicate forever to open minds.
Sammy| 9.8.10 @ 10:12AM
Suggestion: Get down on your knees and pray for this country.
Jenny| 9.8.10 @ 10:28AM
Alveda King is a very brave woman for standing up for what she believes in and against the racist hate-mongers. She is my hero.
AmericanPatriot| 9.8.10 @ 11:03AM
I could take Alveda more seriously if she did not claim to know MLK's message more than his wife because she shared DNA with MLK. I have relatives too, and in no way does DNA memory play into how much closer my nieces understand my life, thoughts, or beliefs than my own wife or children that I raise.
MLK's son oddly chose to go to sharpton's rally and speak there instead of along side his cousin who is using his fathers name to get attention.
I see her no different than the other fringe conservatives that try to gain politically over lies, nepotism, and hypocrisy.
Odd you dont discuss that she grabbed the prolife mantle only after having TWO abortions herself.
She professes the sanctity of marriage, yet belittles it for her own gain when it comes to her own uncle and his wife vs some sort of weird DNA memory claim and completely shifts political spectrum from having multiple abortions to fighting to remove that choice over what can be best described as survivors guilt.
Pick a better spokeswoman is all I can say.
TR| 9.8.10 @ 11:18AM
"Odd you dont discuss that she grabbed the prolife mantle only after having TWO abortions herself."
The apostle Paul was a murderer of Christians before Christ confronted him on the road to Damascus and he repented and changed his ways. So, by your stabdards, if you have sinned and you repent, you are a fringe conservative trying to gain politically, etc etc. You do not accept that a person can make mistakes and spend the rest of their lives working to correct those mistakes. And you also seem to think that a memory of events, or experience of people you know, is only passed on through DNA.
And you find it odd that MLKs son chose to go to a rally assembled by Sharpton - a legally proved liar, a race pimp, a hate filled bigot, as if that proves that SHE is the mistaken person for not jumping on his racist anti-Beck rally.
I am certainly grateful that you are not the judge and jury with your twisted logic.
I will leave it to God to judge.
Karen O| 9.8.10 @ 12:14PM
TR thank you. That woman was magnificent. And plenty of women (and men) deeply regret abortion--pain which the so-called "women's movement" refuses to discuss.
Margie| 9.8.10 @ 3:34PM
Indeed, the pain. I once knew a young Christian woman who had just come to Christ recently. She confided to me in tears that she had had an abortion before she became a Christian. I asked her lovingly if she had prayed to Jesus and asked Him to forgive her to which she replied, "yes." So I told her, that well then you are already forgiven. The matter has been settled. He will no more remember your sin."
"He will again have compassion upon us, He will tread our iniquities under foot. Thou wilt cast all our sins into the depths of the sea." Micah 7:19.
Tony in Central PA| 9.8.10 @ 9:10PM
Abortion survivors have an essential role to play in ending the barbaric practice in this nation. The " Pro Choice " voices have no answer for the woman who testifies to the reality that her life was ruined by an abortion.
The cruel irony of abortion is that women so often make this " choice " because they feel they have no choice. Its irresponsible, selfish men who end up being the biggest beneficiaries of this abomination.
AmericanPatriot| 9.8.10 @ 12:44PM
"And you also seem to think that a memory of events, or experience of people you know, is only passed on through DNA."
That is Alveda's belief, not mine. Alveda is the one who claims that she knows MLK's message better than Coretta because of DNA. Of course Alveda's claim makes even less sense in the light of MLK's son (who has more of MLK's DNA than Alveda) rightfully choosing to not join Beck's church picnic.
I believe that my wife and children know me better than my bother's children, Alveda believes the contrary.
You sheeple are just the future prospective congregates of the LDS. Attendees of the Beck church picnic should have questioned what they were really there for when they applauded the imagery of the mormon tabernacle at the "rally" and accepted that Canadian geese flying away from clapping was Beck's ability to conjure a miracle.
You are playing right into the hands of a man that believes in a religion that has God having sex with Mary to conceive Jesus, that Joseph Smith is a god, and that any person can be rewarded with their own planet to populate with spirit babies through eternal afterlife copulation.
TR| 9.8.10 @ 5:53PM
Your ignorance is profoundly displayed to all who read these posts Mr. "American Patriot". Mr. Beck has NEVER pushed Mormonism, you ignorant person, he talks about GOD and coming to the Messiah for salvation. If you bothered to open your ears instead of your blind liberalism, you would know that his primary goal is for you to seek forgiveness and salvation. We are all sinners, and no one is deserving of God's forgiveness, he gave it to us freely if we simply come to him of our own free will.
Free will, "American Patriot", not by any works you do, but by His love and grace.
It is clear that you are a religious bigot, and your faux moniker calling yourself "American Patriot" is the very antithesis of what our founders were, the true American Patriots.
I will pray for you to find God through Christ.
Nunya| 9.8.10 @ 6:37PM
AP, you really are out on a limb on this one. As a Christian that has lived in UT for the past 12 years, I've befriended and worked with LDS people this entire time. I've never been converted, nor has anyone ever tried.
Glenn Beck didn't try to convert anyone at his rally, all he ever did was tell people they need to "get on [their] knees" and pray. Pretty innocuous, I would say (that is, to a Christian).
Fact is, while I don't believe the LDS religion is correct, the fact that my neighbors are focused on their families is a positive thing, in my opinion.
spyder308| 9.9.10 @ 12:35PM
Alveda King is for sale, that is her name and family heritage are for sale. Pay her and she will say whatever you want wherever you want.
John Hemmer| 9.9.10 @ 11:39PM
AmericanPatriot, you have spoken like a true eugenecist. What does DNA have to do with a persons thoughts or life experiences? Very Little.
Steven Ertelt| 9.8.10 @ 11:30AM
The LifeNews.com news story refenced in this article that has more on the attacks on King is at http://www.lifenews.com/nat6662.html
Mike Morgan| 9.8.10 @ 11:44AM
The Religious Coalition for Reproductive Choice...what a sham organization...just remove the
Reproductive Choice and replace with "Killing the Unborn"...read Psalm 139
TR| 9.8.10 @ 12:05PM
Amen, Mike.
It is sickening that any group, let alone a group that calls itself a "religious caolition" could support the murder of a child in the womb. It is necessary for these murder-supporting groups to fuzzy up the terrible act by calling it "choice". Whose choice? Did the child have a choice?
Several years ago, my father in law was suffering from terminal cancer. My daughter asked why there was no cure for grandpa. I told her that the person who was going to develop the cure for her grandfather's cancer was aborted 30 years ago.
ABORTION IS MURDER PERIOD.
Charity in Truth| 9.8.10 @ 12:27PM
Yes.
There is a new documentary called Maafa 21 which documents the motivation behind the legalization of abortion was eugenics and racial genocide.
Neo| 9.8.10 @ 12:40PM
There are not Catholics for a Free Choice
Doctor Right| 9.8.10 @ 1:29PM
"The Religious Coalition for Reproductive Choice (RCRC)" is an oxymoron, as well as a sick joke.
If you claim to be a Christian, yet support infanticide of the unborn, then you are either a complete fraud, or you completely misunderstand scripture. Either way, you're going to have problems.
One day, you'll stand before God and be called to account for your life. Unlike squishy talk-show hosts and left-wing politicians, the Lord will have zero patience for your rationalizations and talk of "reproductive freedom". He will not be interested in hearing about how it's "your body, your choice". And he'll have little regard for your "career path".
He'll simply ask you to justify your support for allowing the unborn to be brutally murdered.
You'll have no answer.
The Bible says to work out your salvation "with fear and trembling".
Better start trembling now, pro-aborts.
TR| 9.8.10 @ 5:54PM
Amen, sir.
Oldefarte| 9.8.10 @ 3:33PM
This criticism of King is simply typical of the radical, extremism of the Democratic Party. I admire King's courageous stand with Beck and the tea partiers, I disagree with the right-to-life position generally [especially regarding African-Americans]. Abortion represents the last resort of birth control methods for black women who are economically/socially/financially disadvantaged from unwed motherhood. IMO, the government should establish abortion clinics in each/every impoverished neighborhood until employment and economic stability is restored. The problem with anti-abortionists' positions is that they do not establish a solution for the welfare of the non-aborted children. Are they [and their friends,etc] willing and financially able to totally adopt the born children of these unwed pregnancies? THE BLIND SIDE was a terrific movie, but was a untypical result of a typically bad situation, and was not realistic or characteristically true. If and until the babies of these unwed pregancies are totally adopted by financially capable parents/couples, abortion is sadly the only viable solution!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Margie| 9.8.10 @ 3:42PM
No, Oldefarte, it isn't the right thing to do, no matter what. And yes, there actually are plenty of other choices for women with an unwanted pregnancy. There are Crisis Pregnancy Centers all over the country, and there is always adoption. It just can't be right to say yes to abortion, ever. It is never right!
TR| 9.8.10 @ 5:58PM
Good to hear from you again, Nargie.
Yes, there are plenty of options other than murdering the human being growing inside the womb. Why the H#LL do these phony fake know-it-alll celebrities go to backwater countries to adopt children? If our immoral law allowing wholesale murder did not exist, there would be children right here to adopt and raise in loving families.
TR| 9.8.10 @ 6:00PM
Sorry, typing is not my specialty. It should read: "Good to hear from you again MARGIE."
Margie| 9.8.10 @ 6:54PM
Thanks, TR. Always enjoy your excellent posts as well!
Oldefarte| 9.9.10 @ 1:27PM
Margie, As a born, raised and educated Catholic, I am well aware of the eternal damnation that I am subjecting myself to by my above position regarding abortion [and I do not do so lightly; but only with great remorse]. You [and TR] are of course correct in your thesis, BUT I again rationaize my support for abortion as THE ONLY VIABLE BIRTH CONTROL SOLUTION. If the government would begin dispensing birth control mechanisms from established clinics on every street corner in impoverished neighborhoods, and if black indigent females would begin using same [and thus preventing pregnancies], then I would then admit my error and agree with your always correct position. This however has not, nor will it ever, happen; and these indigent black females will continue to become pregnant, deliver their unwanted children, subject same to physical and mental abuse and a lifetime of hellacious crime/depression. The answer is not to continue this assemply line of indigent births which is immensely cruel to both the mothers and their birthed children. The only hope of these unwed mothers ever achieving any financial independence is by somehow preventing their being subject to a lifetime of continued poverty and misery [along with their inadequately supported children]. This cycle of poverty has to be somehow broken, and it has to start with their bringing children into this world that they are unable to financially support and adequately care for [and you beloved system of adoption does not, not can ever hope to, adequately care for this overload]!!!!
Margie| 9.9.10 @ 10:13PM
Dearest Oldfarte,
You need to trust in God more. We all need to trust in Him a lot more I'd imagine, about most things. Trust that the Creator of the Universe can take care of those unwanted babies if they are just allowed to be born. It isn't His will for those Mothers to kill their babies no matter what. If a baby is born, believe that God is always watching out for them and His will will be done with their lives. Better to do that, don't you think, I mean to trust Him and that He is in charge, rather than have to subject yourself to such a needless and unnecessary burden of guilt? Give that (your burden), to Him. He is the one in control. He will take care of them, just as He takes care of you.
Remember these things~
"Are not two sparrows sold for a farthing? And one of them shall not fall on the ground without your Father. But the very hairs of your head are all numbered. Fear not therefore, you are of more value than many sparrows." Mt. 10:31 & 31.
"For to the snow He says, 'Fall on the earth'; and to the shower and the rain, 'Be strong.' Job 37:6.
"Trust in the LORD with all your heart, and lean not on your own understanding; in all your ways acknowledge Him, and He shall direct your paths. Do not be wise in your own eyes; Fear the LORD and depart from evil. It will be healing to your flesh, And strength to your bones." Prov. 3:5-8.
Margie| 9.9.10 @ 10:59PM
"Agree with God, and be at peace; thereby good will come to you." Job 22:21.
I forgot to add that verse that I was thinking of, too. See Oldefarte, just agree with Him that it's wrong no matter what, and give your burden to Him, let Him have it. Let Him take care of everybody else, His way. He does anyhow.
LadyPatriot| 9.8.10 @ 4:11PM
I am APPALLED to see my church on the list of member organizations - checked further into it and found on the church's website that they proudly claim membership> for the life of me, I cannot understand how a church can stand with abortionists. Of course, they claim on the website that they are "pro-choice" - From my perspective, pro-choice equals pro abortion for without the option of abortion, the choice would not be needed.
ton| 9.9.10 @ 3:23PM
Then get out. "Your" church may condone the murder of babies; Christ's Holy Catholic
Church has defended the right to life since the Annuciation.
Char| 9.11.10 @ 8:43PM
I got out of my church 10 years ago and have yet to find one that isn't leftwing. If I could stand megachurches, I'd probably be there because most of them are at least biblical.
AmericanPatriot| 9.8.10 @ 4:34PM
You know, if same sex marriage were legal, there would be a huge infusion of new loving couples that could be adopting (and even paying for the pre-natal care).
TR| 9.8.10 @ 5:59PM
New loving couples that would have their unchallenged forum to mindwash young children into accepting the abomination of their behavior. You, sir, are a sick human being.
Patrick in AZ| 9.8.10 @ 7:01PM
So what we have here is another group of Marxist wolves who have wrapped themselves in religious clothing
CBKC| 9.9.10 @ 3:12PM
And there you have it, Patrick. Just as Beck has said, the infiltration of the churches is a Marxist plan.
KyMouse| 9.8.10 @ 7:57PM
A bit of good news: The Kentucky chapter of the RCRC notified its members recently that it would no longer be financially able to publish its newsletter (a pro-life friend of mine is on their mailing list). At least for the foreseeable future.
And at this year's Kentucky State Fair, the chapter's usual information booth was no where to be found. If it was there, I never saw it, and I was there on four different days (working at other booths).
In years past, I've stopped by the RCRC booth to ask the volunteers if they were at all grateful that their mothers didn't abort them. Other people have tried similar approaches.
In the past couple of years, their newsletter asked for volunteers, but insisted that they not talk to people who stop by. They were to sit there, with their mouths closed, and simply hand out pamphlets.
Ha -- I guess even *they* know that they have no answers.
Becky| 9.8.10 @ 8:57PM
I am so proud of Alveda King. She is a good Christian woman and has taken a pro-life stand. The radical reaction to her only shows the evil that is at work in this country. God has made His will clear on murder. Abortion is murder. May God bless Alveda King for speaking for the unborn.
yo daddy| 9.8.10 @ 9:51PM
its actually less than 10% of the pop. I just flipped thru 15 channels onmy tv and the first channel that did not have a black face on it was a shampoo bottle
Brian| 9.9.10 @ 3:26AM
Sure am proud of Alveda King. No doubt Soros (an atheist that funds leftist churchs) would give her $10 million to switch sides and she knows it. Some ppl just can't be bought.
The forgotten ones| 9.9.10 @ 11:39AM
But lets not slack also we need to get on the forgotten ones, the frozen IVF babies. Recent studies show that these fetus's do better than regular ivf babies because they survive the freezing process.
There are currently over 500,000 of these babies waiting to be saved from the cryo facilities. We just need to push some legislation to free these babies up to the general population for implantation.
Vasu Murti | 9.9.10 @ 1:54PM
"three times..." already!
The Bible supports abortion rights, just as it does slavery and the subjugation of women.
Pro-lifers need to become completely secular!
Genesis 38:24. Tamar's pregnancy was discovered three months after conception, presumably because it was visible at the time. This was positive proof that she was sexually active. Because she was a widow, without a husband, she was assumed to be a prostitute. Her father-in-law, Judah, ordered that she be burned alive for her crime. If Tamar's fetuses had been considered to have any value whatsoever, her execution would have been delayed until after their birth. There was no condemnation on Judah for deciding to take this action.
Exodus 21:22-24. If two men are fighting and one injures a pregnant woman and the fetus is killed, he shall repay her according to the degree of injury inflicted upon her, and not the fetus.
Author Brian McKinley, a born-again Christian, sums up the passage as:
"Thus we can see that if the baby is lost, it does not require a death sentence-it is not considered murder. But if the woman is lost, it is considered murder and is punished by death."
Halacha (Jewish Law) does define when a fetus becomes a nephesh (person), a full-fledged human being, when the head emerges from the womb. Before then, the fetus is considered a "partial-life". The fetus has great value because it is potentially a human life, it gains full human status after birth only.
Abortions are not permitted on the grounds of genetic imperfections of the fetus. Abortions are permitted to save the mother's life or health. With the exception of some Orthodox authorities, Judaism supports abortion access for women. Each case must be decided individually by a rabbi well-versed in Jewish law.
The Babylonian Talmud (Yevamot 69b) states that: "the embryo is considered to be mere water until the fortieth day." Afterward, it is considered subhuman until it is born. Rashi, the great 12th century commentator on the Bible and the Talmud, states clearly of the fetus 'lav nephesh hu---it is not a person.' The Talmud contains the expression, "the thigh of its mother," i.e., the fetus is deemed to be part and parcel of the pregnant woman's body.
This is grounded in Exodus 21:22. That biblical passage outlines the Mosaic Law in a case where a man is responsible for causing a woman's miscarriage, which kills the fetus. If the woman survives, then the perpetrator has to pay a fine to the woman's husband. If the woman is killed, the perpetrator is also killed. This indicates that the fetus has value, but does not have the status of a person.
There are two additional passages in the Talmud which shed some light on abortion. They imply that the fetus is considered part of its mother: One section states that if a man purchases a cow that is found to be pregnant, then he is owner of both the cow and the fetus. Another section states that if a pregnant woman converts to Judaism, that her conversion also applies to her fetus.
Some Jewish authorities have ruled in specific cases. one case involved a woman who becomes pregnant while nursing a child. Her milk supply would dry up. If the child is allergic to all other forms of nutrition except mother's milk, then it would starve. An abortion would be permitted in this case, a potential person, would be justified to save the life of the child, an actual person.
Conservative, Reconstructionist and Reform Judaism are formally opposed to government regulation of abortion. They feel that the decision should rest with the woman, her husband, her doctor and her clergyperson. Some Orthodox authorities agree with this stance. Polls have found up to 90% of American Jews supporting abortion rights.
The New Testament is more permissive than the Old! Paul claims Jesus said to him three times, "my grace is sufficient for thee" (II Corinthians 12:8-9), and Christians misinterpret this verse to mean they're free to do as they please--ignoring Jesus' teachings and all of Paul's other moral instructions altogether.
The late Reverend Janet Regina Hyland (1933-2007), raised Catholic but went on to become an evangelical minister, a vegan, and author of God's Covenant with Animals (it's available through PETA), told me they're quoting Paul out of context. Paul, she observed, was very strict with himself:
"But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection; lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway." (I Corinthians 9:27)
Regina Hyland said this verse indicates it's possible for one to lose one's salvation (a serious point of contention among born agains!).
My friend Ruth Enero, a Catholic peace and pro-life activist ministering to those on death row, and whom I very much respect, also says they're quoting Paul out of context. Paul, she says, had a "thorn" in his side, and asked Jesus what to do about it. The response was simple: "My grace is sufficient for thee." This was a response to a specific problem, not a license to do as one pleases, or why else would Paul himself have given so many other moral instructions?
Reverend Frank Hoffman, a retired vegan Methodist minister, and owner of the www.all-creatures.org Christian vegetarian website says, "I agree with Ruth."
These Christians who focus only on II Corinthians 12:8-9 MUST be quoting Paul out of context, because otherwise it doesn't make any sense: on the one hand, Paul is warning that drunkards, thieves, homosexuals, etc. will not inherit the kingdom of God, and on the other hand he's saying if you call on Jesus three times...you can do whatever you want?!
Well, then: I'd like to see pro-life Christians convince pro-choice Christians that II Corinthians 12:8-9 doesn't mean abortion is permissible!
Persons telling the rest of our secular society not to kill the unborn are hardly in a position to object when others tell them not to kill animals!
My problem really isn't with "Christians" unable to follow Jesus or Paul, but with the hypocrisy of saying "I believe," and ignoring the rest of what their religion dictates when it suits them; appealing to scriptures they aren't even following.
Why not just part with your religion and be secular, like everyone else?
Secular arguments are religiously neutral and thus applicable to everyone, including atheists and agnostics. The pro-life movement ALREADY HAS the support of organized religion. Instead of preaching to the choir, i.e., wasting time with religion, pro-lifers should focus on embryology and prenatal development, DNA, RNA, etc. to make their case to mainstream secular society.
Ralph Novy| 9.9.10 @ 6:01PM
What a disgusting appeal to "blood."
Not since the Nazis......
eu
What a worthless, hypocritical -- possibly clinically insane -- piece of shit this woman is.
If she IS clinically insane, I withdraw much of my ire toward her and re-direct it at Glenn Beck, et al.
Fredrick Ward| 9.10.10 @ 4:00PM
If you considered and knew the whole of the bible you would understand that there are two testaments, or covenants.
The first, called the old testament, was one based under the law. The second, brought by the sacrifice of Jesus, is
one of forgiveness and bridging the gap between God and Man through that forgiveness, and acceptance of the
sacrifice Jesus made on our behalf.
The verse you mention in Genesis 38:24 has nothing to do with abortion. In fact, the chapter is about honoring a
covenant of familial responsibility between Tamar and Judah. What you fail to conveniently mention, to take the
scripture out of context, is this:
Genesis 38
25 As she was being brought out, she sent a message to her father-in-law. "I am pregnant by the man who owns
these," she said. And she added, "See if you recognize whose seal and cord and staff these are."
26 Judah recognized them and said, "She is more righteous than I, since I wouldn't give her to my son Shelah." And
he did not sleep with her again.
It was Judah's Child that she bore, and it was his responsibility to bear a child to her either by his sons or by
himself. He broke that bond, and she took matters into her own hands to see it through. This in no way is
scriptural support for abortion.
This is actually what the verses of Exodus 21:22-24 states since you have it incorrect:
22 "If men who are fighting hit a pregnant woman and she gives birth prematurely but there is no serious injury,
the offender must be fined whatever the woman's husband demands and the court allows. 23 But if there is serious
injury, you are to take life for life, 24 eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot, 25 burn for
burn, wound for wound, bruise for bruise.
What the verse actually shows is that if the child and mother of the child suffer no injury then there is only a
fine of some sort. However, if there is injury then life for life, eye for eye, etc etc. You misquote scripture to
suit your own needs. Your use of this scripture also shows your lack of understanding of the bible in general.
Acts 15 shows this clearly. At that time some of the believers were telling the Gentile believers that they must be
circumcized.
5Then some of the believers who belonged to the party of the Pharisees stood up and said, "The Gentiles must be
circumcised and required to obey the law of Moses."
The response by Peter was this:
10Now then, why do you try to test God by putting on the necks of the disciples a yoke that neither we nor our
fathers have been able to bear? 11No! We believe it is through the grace of our Lord Jesus that we are saved, just
as they are."
Peter was pointing out the the Law was superceded and replaced by grace. That grace was given us because Jesus
already paid the debt that the Law required for our sins. He also stated that even they, the Jews and their
forefathers, were unable to keep to the Law given to them because the yoke of the law was too heavy to bear.
Your comment on II Corinthians 12:8-9 is laughable. Your very attempt at trying to make this verse about abortion
is utterly ridiculous. I will also show the preceeding verse to bring everything into context.
7To keep me from becoming conceited because of these surpassingly great revelations, there was given me a thorn in
my flesh, a messenger of Satan, to torment me. 8Three times I pleaded with the Lord to take it away from me. 9But
he said to me, "My grace is sufficient for you, for my power is made perfect in weakness." Therefore I will boast
all the more gladly about my weaknesses, so that Christ's power may rest on me. 10That is why, for Christ's sake, I
delight in weaknesses, in insults, in hardships, in persecutions, in difficulties. For when I am weak, then I am
strong.
Where do you even see the mention of abortion, unborn children, or anything else that has to do with abortion in
those verses? If you say you do then you are a liar and are only trying to deceive others. Also, for anyone who actually reads the verses it is clear to see that Paul is not saying that if you call upon Jesus three times that anything is permissable. It shows that God's grace is sufficeint through the hardships of life.
Your whole argument is based on fallacy due to the fact that you have not taken the time to interpret the scriptures correctly.
mzk1| 9.12.10 @ 8:50AM
Vasu has misrepresented Jewish law for his own purposes. It is clear in Rabbinic Judaism that abortion is generally prohibited, to both Jews and Gentiles. It is certainly NOT permitted for the mother's "health"; her life, yes, and we do determine that rather broadly.
Additionally, according to our reading of the Talmud (there is a variant), once the head OR most of the body has come out, you cannot kill one to save the other.
Ironically, he has a point - the best argument is secular. The unfertilized egg is not human, the neonate is (this week, anyway); as far a the period in between, there is no way outside of religion to determine its status, so the best is to err on the side of life.
mzk1| 9.12.10 @ 8:55AM
Oh, the status in the first 40-days does not necessarily permit abortion, expecially according the predominant opinion (e.g. Maimonides) that it is a form of murder. And the concept that the fetus is part of the mother certainly does not, accoding to anyone.
BTW, in the Noachide law, abortion has a death penalty.
mzk1| 9.12.10 @ 9:01AM
"Why not just part with your religion and be secular, like everyone else?"
Like who else? Not most of the U.S. Why not just part with your secularism and be religious, like everyone else?
And because, accoding to secularism, eveything is just chemistry, and there is no free will. So why be compassionate to machines?
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