The American Spectator : A Relativist, Wrapped in a Muslim, Inside an Agnostic

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The Obama Watch

A Relativist, Wrapped in a Muslim, Inside an Agnostic

By George Neumayr on 8.26.10 @ 6:10AM

Barack Obama’s mere syncretism.

Why does a significant chunk of the American electorate think Obama is a Muslim? Let’s count some of the reasons: he speaks of his “Muslim roots,” says he hails from “generations of Muslims,” was born to a line of Muslim males and given by them an Arabic name, went to a Muslim school in Islamic Indonesia, speaks glowingly of Islam whenever he gets the chance, holds a Ramadan dinner in the White House, tells his NASA head to turn the space agency into a Muslim outreach program, and last but not least insults doctrinal Christians routinely.

The voice of the people is the voice of God, the pander bears and demagogues of the left usually say. But not on this one. With great impatience they have appeared on cable shows this week to lecture the American people on Obama’s “real” religion. Has the left-wing chattering class ever been more eager to pronounce a president Christian?

The American public hasn’t seen this level of hyperactive defensiveness from them, or what they would call a “teachable moment,” since that terribly insensitive New Yorker cover depicting Obama in a turban. Or was it the time that Hillary Clinton slyly said that Obama isn’t a Muslim “as far as” she knew? Or was it the time the Hillary campaign allegedly sent to the Drudge Report an image of Obama in Muslim garb? Or when Hillary-consultant Mark Penn’s offensive memos leaked out saying that he couldn’t “imagine America electing a president during a time of war who is not at his center fundamentally American in his thinking and in his values”?

Oh well; all is forgotten in politics. But, wait, what did Mitch McConnell say again? “I take him at his word” that he is Christian, said the Senate Republican Minority Leader last Sunday. The left is in no mood to forgive that one, since “his word” counts for so little in the eyes of Republicans like McConnell.

So what religion is Obama? Probably the most generous description of Obama’s elusive religious identity, should one take him at “his word” as it appears in his slippery memoirs and speeches, is that he’s neither Muslim nor Christian; he’s something else. His late mother, whom he once called a “Christian from Kansas” but actually was a non-believing anthropologist from Kansas, would have found classifying him tricky too. But perhaps he can be clinically described as a practicing agnostic, with deep roots in and sympathy for Islam, who views his now-professed, politically necessary religion with barely concealed disdain while allowing himself from time to time bursts of syncretistic sophistry and quasi-religious uplift.

At least this much is clear: his greatest fear is not radical Islam abroad but the growth of doctrinal Christianity at home. Imagine if he treated Muslims in the same arrogant manner that his administration treats pro-life Christian doctors, nurses, and pharmacists; imagine if he imposed secularism on imams the way his administration uses it to silence Christians opposed to “LGBT rights.” Islamic groups like CAIR would accuse him of rank persecution.

His de facto culture war with Christianity is of more interest to him than the real and ongoing one with radical Islam. He is the Harvard agnostic and dilettante who stands above all religions, save Islam, and judges their “rationality” and usefulness to the utopia to come. Islam is an intrinsically peaceful religion by his lights, while Christianity, unless it assumes the platform of the Democratic Party and sees Jesus as a forerunner to Saul Alinsky, is dangerously bigoted and an impediment to “progress.” Obama’s America has a friend in Islam, but Christians can be “un-American,” as actor Tom Hanks once described Proposition 8 proponents.

The more irrational a religion, the more Obama-style “rationalists” and relativists like it, and if the religion is non-western their enthusiasm grows still more. Obama’s gushing about Islam stems not only from his “roots” but also from the western agnosticism to which he essentially converted: relativists quietly admire the rupture in the relationship between religion and reason in Islamic culture because they engineered a similar rupture in their own.

Radical Islam and relativism take different routes of irrationality — the former adopts “faith” without reason while the latter adopts “reason” without faith — but come out on the same trail of blood: a culture of death, with daily abortions in the west, suicide bombings in the east, and a “leader of the free world,” who reads secularist propaganda at the Huffington Post with memory’s ear cocked to the “call of the azaan,” blind to both.

About the Author

George Neumayr, a contributing editor to The American Spectator, is co-author, with Phyllis Schlafly, of the new book, No Higher Power: Obama’s War on Religious Freedom.

Letter to the Editor View all comments (369) | Leave a comment Leave a comment

Robbins Mitchell| 8.26.10 @ 6:27AM

I would have said hubris wrapped in sophistry inside arrogance

Ken (Old Texican)| 8.26.10 @ 7:18AM

Mr. Neumayr,
That was probably the most cogent article I have read about Obama except possibly the one on the Thinker a while back about his passive/agressive anger at the US. I will try to look it up and give you a link.

Roscoe| 8.30.10 @ 1:32PM

Ken,
Any luck finding this? I'd be interested. Thanks.

Old Soldier| 8.26.10 @ 12:24PM

With a caramel coated center of incompetence.

Rev. Chuck Currie | 8.26.10 @ 1:06PM

August 25, 2010

As Christian leaders— whose primary responsibility is sharing the gospel of Jesus Christ with our congregations, our communities, and our world— we are deeply troubled by the recent questioning of President Obama’s faith. We understand that these are contentious times, but the personal faith of our leaders should not be up for public debate.

President Obama has been unwavering in confessing Christ as Lord and has spoken often about the importance of his Christian faith. Many of the signees on this letter have prayed and worshipped with this President. We believe that questioning, and especially misrepresenting, the faith of a confessing believer goes too far.

This is not a political issue. The signers of this letter come from different political and ideological backgrounds, but we are unified in our belief in Jesus Christ. As Christian pastors and leaders, we believe that fellow Christians need to be an encouragement to those who call Christ their savior, not question the veracity of their faith.

Therefore, we urge public officials, faith leaders, and the media to offer no further support or airtime to those who misrepresent and call into question the President’s Christian faith. And we join with the President in praying that God will continue to bless the United States of America.

Signed,

Bishop T.D. Jakes
Pastor and CEO
Potters House

Ronald J. Sider
President
Evangelicals for Social Action

Rev. Sam Rodriguez
President
National Hispanic Leadership Conference

Dr. Joel Hunter
Senior Pastor, Northland: A Church Distributed

Jim Wallis
President and CEO
Sojourners

Luis Cortes
President
Esperanza

Stephen Monsma
Paul Henry Institute for the Study of Christianity and Politics
Calvin College

Miroslav Volf
Director, Center for Faith and Culture
Yale Divinity School

Donald Miller
Author

Brian McLaren
Author/Pastor

Bishop Vashti Murphy McKenzie
Thirteenth Episcopal District
African Methodist Episcopal Church

Kirbyjon Caldwell
Senior Pastor
Windsor Village United Methodist Church

Wesley Granberg-Michaelson
General Secretary
Reformed Church in America

Rev. Peg Chemberlin
President
National Council of Churches

Rev. Dr. Sharon Watkins
General Minister and President
Christian Church (Disciples of Christ)

Dr. David P. Gushee
Distinguished University Professor of Christian Ethics
Director, Center for Theology and Public Life
Mercer University

Dr. William Shaw
President
National Baptist Convention USA

Dr. Richard Hamm
Executive Director
Christian Churches Together in the USA

Cynthia Bolbach
Moderator, 219th General Assembly
Presbyterian Church (USA)

Gradye Parsons
Stated Clerk 
Office of the General Assembly
Presbyterian Church (USA)

Linda Valentine
Executive Director
General Assembly Mission Council
Presbyterian Church (USA)

Dr. James C. Perkins
First Vice President
The Progressive National Baptist Convention

Rev. Gabriel A. Salguero
Lead Pastor, The Lamb’s Church of the Nazarene
Executive, The Latino Leadership Circle

Noel Castellanos
CEO, Christian Community Development Association

Vincent J. Miller
Gudorf Chair in Catholic Theology and Culture
Department of Religious Studies
University of Dayton

Terrence W. Tilley
Avery Cardinal Dulles, S.J., Professor of Catholic Theology
Chair, Theology Department
Fordham University, Bronx NY

Nicholas P. Cafardi
Dean Emeritus and Professor of Law
Duquesne University School of Law

T. Michael McNulty, SJ
Justice and Peace Director
Conference of Major Superiors of Men (CMSM)

Steve Schneck
Director
Institute for Policy Research & Catholic Studies
The Catholic University of America

David Baak
United Church of Wayland, MI

George B. Telford
Committee on Ecumenical and Interfaith Relations
Presbyterian Church (USA)

Rev. Chuck Currie

Rev. Jeff Johnston

Albert| 8.26.10 @ 1:24PM

This is a perfectly legitimate issue because it calls in to question not any issue about faith, but about honesty. "Not everyone who says to me 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of Heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in Heaven." (Matt. 7:21) President Bozo does not act like a Christian, in my view. He acts like a nonbeliever. And his actions and statements call into question his "profession of faith". If Bozo is lying about this, what else will he lie about?

Sheri| 8.27.10 @ 10:03AM

Couldn't agree with you more, Albert. Well said!! Love the quote from Matthew, too! So appropriate to this president. "As a man soweth, that shall he also reap."

Steve| 8.27.10 @ 11:18AM

Absolutely! Obama is a man untouched by any obligation to adhere to the obligations of religion. His "beliefs" ebb and flow according to convenience of the moment. His piety stems from his ability to alter his beliefs instantaneously to serve an immediate purpose, and he does this with such ease because he sees himself as the One we've been waiting for, remember? Beliefs do not define Obama; His persona defines what should be believed. They are assumed true simply because they are products of his thinking, and as such can be changed or abandoned at his will. Dangerous, this man.

Kimberly| 8.27.10 @ 10:04PM

I may agree with what you say, but do you think calling him Bozo is helpful? Seriously. Not real loving there.

Marc| 8.26.10 @ 1:28PM

Please consider these warning scriptures from our Lord in Matthew's gospel: "16 "You will know them by their fruits. ...20 Therefore by their fruits you will know them. and .. 21 “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. " Perhaps in your visits with our President, you will remind him to "Walk the Talk", as he will be held just accountable at the judgement as you and I. Respectfully, a Christ follower. Jesus is Lord!!

Rev. Chuck Currie | 8.26.10 @ 1:58PM

President Obama Is A Christian

Rumors persist - started during his run for the presidency - that Barack Obama is a Muslim. There has been a persistent effort on the internet to question his religion. It has been effective. I've received copies of e-mails from otherwise normal people stating that the president is Muslim and hopes to quash Christianity. A friend posted a link on his Facebook page this winter saying that the president had ordered there be no White House Christmas Tree (having been to the White House at Christmas and seen several White House Christmas trees, I had an easy response to that one).

Let's face it: some of this has to do with the president's name, family background (his father was a Muslim), fear bordering on paranoia among some regarding Islam in the wake of 9/11 (by calling the president a Muslim they are effectively arguing he is a terrorist), and even lingering racism among a small number of Americans who question the president's nationality and see him as "other" - not "one of us." All of this is fueled by right-wing radio talk show hosts and comments by extremist figures such as Franklin Graham.

http://chuckcurrie.blogs.com/c.....stian.html

Marc| 8.26.10 @ 2:18PM

Another scripture, if you will: 1 Samuel 16:7 ".. The LORD does not look at the things man looks at. Man looks at the outward appearance, but the LORD looks at the heart." Christmas trees don't make one a Christian. And since when did Franklin Graham become EXTREMIST? Please consider this from his web site http://www.billygraham.org/art.....cleid=6224 "We will never water down the gospel" Do you call this extreme?

Jonathon| 9.1.10 @ 11:42AM

So, how about you let the Lord look at the things the Lord looks at and not presume to be capable of doing so yourself?

John II| 8.26.10 @ 2:46PM

Thank you for the extension of your silly post, Reverend Chuck. Res ipsa loquitur.

C-GT| 8.26.10 @ 3:17PM

"Otherwise normal people"??? Really???
You are just another elitist snob.
Obama is sympathetic to Islam, but he worships himself only.

Spyder308| 8.27.10 @ 10:57PM

Reverend Chuck is an educated man and you are a moron.
"elitist snob" leads me to believe you are ignorant, anti-intellectual, prone to book burning and harbor a deep desire to go back to the stone age. You would fit in real well in the tribal regions of Pakistan and Afghanistan.

Gill O’Teen ✝✡$| 8.26.10 @ 3:50PM

I’m sorry to be unimpressed by your lofty credentials, but I have trouble accepting that anyone who spoke the following words in March 2001 on the floor of the Illinois Senate while a member of Jeremiah Wright’s Church is a believer in The One True Messiah. "We're saying they are persons entitled to the kinds of protections provided to a child, a 9-month child delivered to term. I mean, it would essentially bar abortions, because the equal-protection clause does not allow somebody to kill a child." This speaker was the lone voice of opposition to a bill to provide essential life-saving medical care to babies who only by the Grace of God somehow managed to survive the efforts of butchers to terminate their lives. These Children of OUR Creator had miraculously survived abortions. The very name of the bill, “Born Alive Infants Protection Act” concedes that these innocents were born and therefore U.S. Citizens. To me that means that he is every bit a Christian as he is an authority on OUR Constitution. That you accept this child-killer is as abhorrent as is that this stupid demon has seized control of OUR healthcare.
[ http://stevemaloneygop.blogspo.....lling.html ]
Gill O’Teen ✝✡$
Don’t Tread on Me.
gill.Oteen07041776@gmail.com
The Son of Man indeed goes just as it is written of Him, but woe to that man by whom the Son of Man is betrayed! It would have been good for that man if he had never been born.” Mark 14:21
Only 878 days to go

notoobama| 8.26.10 @ 4:10PM

...and see him as "other"- not one of us"
Well hell Chuck, he doesn't ACT like one of us!

Spyder308| 8.27.10 @ 11:00PM

"one of us," "us" meaning look and think like you.
"There is no one left but we and thee and we're not sure of thee."

Jonathon| 9.1.10 @ 11:44AM

Who are you defining as "us"? I'm willing to bet you don't act much like me.

cmm912| 8.26.10 @ 5:20PM

Dear Rev. Chuck:
YOU wrote this: by calling the president a Muslim they are effectively arguing he is a terrorist

My reply: WOW, that sentence sure sounds like YOU are saying that ALL muslims are terrorists!!!!! YOU said that calling someone a muslim is arguing that they are a terrorist!!!!!! WOW, Rev. Chuck, I'm shocked!!!! Good to know what YOU REALLY BELIEVE!!!! Wow, all muslims are terrorists - YOUR WORDS, NOT MINE!!!!!!

don| 8.26.10 @ 5:35PM

If Franklin Graham(??!) is an extremist, then I feel safe in calling Rev. Currie another social-justice, morally relativistic, Gnostic gospel preaching Marxist. Which is o.k.with me, as long as you don't call yourself a pastor. You are, of course, a "reverend" which means your child-like faith in God has been replaced by vast amounts of theological nonsense. And if Obama is a Christian, then I am a purple and yellow Kumquat. There, I've said it, it must be so!

C. Phillips| 8.26.10 @ 6:45PM

Mr. Curry I find your slam at Franklin Graham a very telling exposure of your own lack of knowing the Lord of which you speak. If you can be a friend to this president, defend his "faith", and call yourself a servant of the Christ, where I ask is your saddness for the instiable appetite for any form of abortion, any form of sexual perversion that God the Father called an abomination, blatant lying and trickery, where is your witness to this person? God have mercy on you and all those that signed your pitiful paper. I pray that one day before it's too late, you yourself meet the One who shed His blood for even you.

michigander_sandusky| 8.26.10 @ 7:15PM

If the POTUS is a "committed" Christian Ronald Reagan was a member of the Politburo. All one has to do to confirm it is to recall Obama's "above my pay grade" argument on abortion at the Saddleback debate.

Joe | 8.26.10 @ 9:55PM

I'm shocked - SHOCKED! - to find that a United Church of Christ minister serves up a letter with the likes of Jim Wallis, Ron Sider and the National Council of Churches [sic].

That said, this President espouses the same squishy, relativistic, immoral, godless pablum the UCC has been serving up for the last decade.

How many members did your denomination lose today, Reverend? That's certainly one race you're winning.

Scalion| 8.27.10 @ 10:45AM

My UCC Church is the leader in my city on social issues. It has been here since the mid 1700s. We started the University here. My church and the Episcopal church a block away are the only churches that are growing. Our church is nearly full every Sunday, how about yours.
I am proud that President Obama comes out of a UCC church.

Bobby| 8.28.10 @ 2:48PM

Whoa Scalion!
The only churches that are growing?
That statement alone reveals how "liberal" you UCC folks can be with the truth.

alfred fife| 8.26.10 @ 10:13PM

with all due respect, you are not living in reality. One thing I can say with 100% assurance; Obama is NOT a Christian. His actions speak loud; he is the anthesis of everything Christ taught. Obama is a disciple of Satan who is the "father of lies". Obama is wrapped up in black liberation theology, Marxism, Islam, deception, anti-Americanism, an advocate of murdering children through abortion, thuggery, criminality, immorality, corruption, and an extremely pathological liar. If you, sir can find anything Christian about Mr. Obama, then your Christianity is not that of Christ as put forth in the Holy Bible. It is a false gospel and you are a charlatan.

Cally| 8.27.10 @ 2:00AM

What exactly is a Christian? Someone who says, "I believe in Christ." or Someone who "BELIEVES" Christ and follows Him?
Actually I don't think our President has done either of these things, but certainly not the second.

Nate W.| 8.27.10 @ 10:08AM

Judging by the responses you've garnered here, it might be more appropriate to refer to you as "Rev. Troll".

Ken (Old Texican)| 8.27.10 @ 10:31AM

Mr. Currie

You honestly make me laugh out loud.
I cannot ...quite...discern if you and that list of names are communists, (pardon the shorthand), or...are merely useful idiots from the "religious Left".

Aren't you guys the ones that were always snootily "concerned"...When Dubyah Bush said "of course my Christian faith informs my decisions." ?

IROTFL!!! ...at you guys.

Donna| 8.29.10 @ 8:19AM

This is not fueled by right-wing talk radio Rev. This is fueled by the President’s leadership skill (lack of), principles (confusing at best) and behavior (involving him with racially charged incidents and coming down on the wrong side of them) which is channeled through is teleprompter and his inability to eloquently speak. It is further exacerbated by the lack of media professionalism to ask questions to ascertain what the heck did he just say/mean and write meaningful unbiased clarification. If there wasn’t a lack of media coverage on “important” decisions/issues he makes, and the 50+ “Czars” that are working in the WH we know nothing about their credentials, the religion fever would not play into a debate. The finger needs to be pointed at BHW not the right wing media Rev.

Joe| 8.30.10 @ 2:52PM

Just because There is a Christmas Tree in The White House, it will not Make Obama a Christian. It being there is a tradition and has nothing to do with his religion. Why don't he just admit it,that he is Muslim. Is he the Racist.

Rev. Joshua Schatzle| 8.30.10 @ 11:16PM

Rev. Chuck, "me thinketh thou doth protest too much." Why such an adamant defense of a man who mocks your Lord in virtually all that he says and does? Remember, the President is on record saying that "one of the prettiest sounds in the world was the Muslim call to prayer". [see NICHOLAS D. KRISTOF's NY TIMES, Published: March 6, 2007]
Do you know what the content of the Muslim call to prayer is? "Allah is supreme [x4], there is no god but Allah." Not only does that violate the 1st of the 10 commandments; it violates everything Jesus says about himself as the incarnation of the Living God. The President recently added, in defense of his supposed Christianity, that he doesn't wear his faith on his sleeve. I seem to remember Jesus saying something about those who deny him would be denied by Him. [Mark 8:38; Lk. 9:26]

Chuck, you ought to be outraged instead of vehemently protective of the President. Since when we do we take any politician at his word?

So I have two questions for you: 1. "what's YOUR agenda?" And 2. "What do you think the Gospel is?"

In His Grace,
Josh

TM| 8.26.10 @ 1:37PM

It's a huge relief to hear the occasional voice of truth amidst all the hatred and the lies. He is clearly a committed Christian but, personally, I'm relieved he has an affinity with the Islamic faith too. An excellent, important message but maybe don't expect many commenters on this site to pay you any attention! This is not exactly a place for relativists...

Albert| 8.26.10 @ 1:58PM

"Hatred and lies"??? No one is lying about your vaunted President Bozo. And no displays "hatred" toward him. We are simply disgusted with his dishonesty and incompetence. That President Bozo is "clearly a committed Christian" is simply not in evidence. And I for one and relieved this is "not exactly a place for relativists." Should it be?

RalphSchmalph| 8.26.10 @ 3:19PM

How can a narcissist like Obama worship any Higher Power other than himself? His words and deeds speak louder than any third party's attempt to rehabilitate an obvious Secular Humanist with a deep and abiding love for Islamic culture and values.

Rev. Chuck Currie | 8.26.10 @ 3:21PM

Your name calling and other comments are examples of hatred directed toward the President.

John II| 8.26.10 @ 3:30PM

Not necessarily, unless of course you have a magic window to see through to the souls of others.

To hate is to will to destroy. I cannot answer for the others on this thread, but my own contempt for Professor Obama and his prim defenders is without the peculiar malice of hatred.

And I do hope that your own contempt for most of the denizens of this thread is not really hatred in disguise--although it could understandably be construed that way.

Stephanie| 8.26.10 @ 4:16PM

And his nose constantly in the air is an example of his haughtiness and his aire of superiority when he looks down on us. NO christian would sit in a church that "preached" the vile nastiness that the "Rev" Wright spews.
"Bill was ridin' dirty" What trash. Christian my behind.
No, that is Black Liberation Theology my friend and is about as Christian as the muslims at GZ.

Albert| 8.26.10 @ 5:03PM

Rev. Mr. Currie:
Horse manure. Nothing I have posted here can even remotely be considered "hatred." Ridicule, perhaps. Even disdain and disrespect. Frankly, Obama deserves those things. But "hatred"? Ludicrous.

Convet| 8.26.10 @ 11:42PM

You are a FRAUD and a HUMBUG "so called" Rev. Chuck. God will judge you you whitewashed sepulcher!

Karina| 8.27.10 @ 3:18AM

Dear Chuck:

Obama is not important enough to hate. I dislike him, scorn his hypocricy, sneer at his pandering to foreign powers, and laugh at his pathetic attempts to be a leader. But hate him? He's not worth the effort.

john galvin| 8.28.10 @ 4:01PM

Rev Currie, you deride those who engage in "name calling" and yet you talk about "otherwise normal" people you have never met, people who have "fear bordering on paranoia" of those same people (of course you must have a degree in psychiatry, I assume), and Franklin Graham "an extremist"? As far as name calling, "let he who is without sin cast the first stone"!

Nate W.| 8.28.10 @ 4:09PM

Again; Why is anyone even bothering to respond to this garden-variety Rev. Troll? ("Religious" trolls are even worse than the normal kind.)

Donna| 8.29.10 @ 8:26AM

Just like blaming "right wing" talk radio. Where did you get your credentials to call yourself Rev? I agree with the "bozo" business as well-it doesn't get us far in moving debates to solutions, but neither does blaming and pointing fingers.

Richard Ong| 8.30.10 @ 4:36PM

Rev. Currie, as with legions of leftists you feel free to throw around a powerful word like "hatred." It's a cheap, aggressive tactic, just as you earlier spoke of "fear bordering on paranoia" and "lingering racism." Nothing like debate on the substantive issues, right?

I can't look inside your head and decide if you're consciously resorting to these rhetorical tactics (or if you think chunky peanut butter is better than smooth peanut butter) but I can assess the logic of your arguments here by objective standards. Think "ad hominem."

Someone who does think it's appropriate to question someone's faith is not isn't entitled to GUESS at that person's inner thoughts and values. If that's your point, fine. But . . . just because someone says what his inner thoughts and values are does not mean that that's what they are. You argue a ridiculous position -- that any belief stated by any man to be his own cannot be questioned. What's so special about the issue of faith?

Furthermore, there are objective facts that belie Mr. Obama's professed Christian beliefs. His snarky question whether the Bible he should revere is the one with the verse(s) from Deuteronomy justifying slavery (video on Glenn Beck tv show from last week) is one such fact. His being an acolyte of "Rev." Wright and having been brought to Christianity by him are two others. Wright's Christianity is to Christianity as butter is to Superglue. It's entirely acceptable to parse Obama's words and actions as they pertain to his "personal faith" -- allegedly Christian -- just as they do to matters of fiscal policy and national security.

My personal faith isn't on the table anywhere in this hemisphere because I haven't put it there. But Obama has splashed his all over the landscape and has thus made it especially fair game. Even if he hadn't done so, he's a public figure and the sincerity of his Christian faith is for darn sure a legit issue when it's known that he attended what is laughingly referred to as the Trinity United Church of Christ (sic) for 20 years and then bowed down before the king of a nation whose religion is 100% antithetical to his supposed Christian faith.

You don't have to be racist, latent or otherwise, or paranoid to ask, "What's up with THAT?"

Every breath Obama takes is in furtherance of his political agenda. He's met his burden of proof with testimony from his own mouth as to his beliefs. A servile people would then say, "How wonderful" and that would be the end of it. We aren't such a people and he and you can pound sand if you think that others are morally constrained from doing whatever they want to undermine his political position. And his religion is a part of his political platform.

"ipse dixit" just doesn't doesn't cut it when you decide to make an issue a public one.

Richard Ong| 8.30.10 @ 8:56PM

Leviticus . . . .

Emma| 8.26.10 @ 4:07PM

Well, I'm just all confused I guess. I clearly remember him calling Christians names in a public setting and mocking them.....something about bitter clingers.

Sorry. Christians who are Christians don't look for public opportunities to call other Christians names and mock them.

You can list all the really important names you want to, T.D.Jakes...that doesn't make you believable, even in the Christian community. He wants to deceive and you're willing to be deceived. Enjoy.

Radegunda| 8.26.10 @ 7:20PM

What exactly is "clear" about his commitment to Christianity?

He declared that "we do not consider America a Christian country" even though ca. 80 percent of the citizens identify as Christian. Then he said that the United States, by the numbers, is really one of the world's biggest Muslim countries! (which is ridiculous by any measure).

There is no "committed Christian" who would have made that pair of false statements, which together serve to favor Islam.

Fredrick Ward| 8.27.10 @ 3:13PM

Relativism is a good way of saying, "Where ever the wind blows that is how my ethics, and morals lean." That is not something to espouse to as a leader or even as a responsible person in general.

A relativist has no basic central from which to judge even the most basic questions of right and wrong. This is due to the fact that ethical relativism denies the even existence of a basic ethical standard by which to judge.

Brian| 8.28.10 @ 4:35PM

Fredrick?
You just described the UCC.

You better duck, Scalion is sure to take a swing at you.

Margie| 8.26.10 @ 1:51PM

"You believe that God is one; you do well. Even the demons believe--and shudder." James 2:19.

Peter McGrath| 8.26.10 @ 1:59PM

"President Obama has been unwavering in confessing Christ as Lord and has spoken often about the importance of his Christian faith."

Please provide a link to audio, video or any sort of reference, which supports this contention. Millions of Americans are gravely, and legitimately, concerned over the values which inform this President.

Anthony| 8.26.10 @ 2:05PM

It's very convincing that a bunch of reverends feel Obama is a Christian, but his saying so, doesn't make it so. If I call myself a fish but don't spend all that much time in the water, am I a fish?

Eddie| 8.26.10 @ 3:57PM

I noticed the top name on the list was T.D. Jakes. I believe he is a well known "black" minister so I would assume without checking that many more on the list are as well. I suppose they're just protecting "the brother". The Rev. Currie has made sure this same list has been distributed widely. He even claims Fox News is run by terrorists. Ron Sider has been criticized for his false interpretations of Biblical content. Google the names on the list folks. I wouldn't listen to a word any of them have to say. I agree that just because Obama vaguely relates something to the public doesn't make him what he says. He's mentioned Muslim about 500 times too many for me to stomach his rhetoric!

canuckistani| 8.26.10 @ 5:01PM

I suppose those radical Presbyterians should be suspected as well?
Like BHO or not, he's attempting to bandage the rhetorical and literal gashes left by Junior and his evangelical minions. Remember the billboard tags "compassionate conservative" and "Faith-based initiatives"? This was all done as the US treasury was emptied with aggressive wars and horrible fiscal policy. If you want to condemn false prophecy, start there.
Just for interest sake, who do you listen to? I'd like to "google" them to see if their meanderings are worth a read.

Ginger| 8.30.10 @ 10:30AM

What planet are you on Canukistani? Obama has already spent more than the cost of the Iraq war in 18 months in office. The Democratic congress is to blame for a lot of the economic mess. "Evangelical minions" are way better than Muslim buddies who have no interest in preserving the Constitution of the U.S. Get a clue!!

John II| 8.26.10 @ 2:20PM

"Obama's gushing about Islam stems . . . from the western agnosticism to which he essentially converted: relativists quietly admire the rupture in the relationship between religion and reason in Islamic culture because they engineered a similar rupture in their own.

"Radical Islam and relativism take different routes of irrationality -- the former adopts 'faith' without reason while the latter adopts 'reason' without faith -- but come out on the same trail of blood."

My dear Reverend Chuck and associates:

Please respond to the key point raised by Mr. Neumayr and quoted above. Moral and political posturing is no substitute for argument, and Christian pastors have a moral duty to avoid such attempts at substitution. Unless of course you're not seriously Christian.

I have studied the Qur'an and the attendant history close enough to teach both, and I herewith bear witness against the smugness and shallowness of self-styled Christians who claim to have no trouble with Islam and its ghastly antinomianism.

Respond intelligently, sirs, or keep quiet. You muddy the waters with your fey Laodicean irenicism.

Albert| 8.26.10 @ 5:38PM

Sheesh! It's been a long time since someone sent me to my dictionary. :-)

John II| 8.26.10 @ 5:56PM

Oh. Sorry. Maybe THAT's why there's been no response from the Reverend. Perhaps the learned preacher doesn't have a dictionary.

Byron| 8.28.10 @ 4:48PM

Albert

The best one liner i've read in a long time.
My wife just poked her head in the door to see what i'm laughing about.

Captain Crunch| 8.26.10 @ 8:30PM

John II,
You sir, are one sharp dude! My hat's off to you!

Sheri| 8.27.10 @ 10:18AM

AMEN, John II. Excellent point and great use of verbage! Will have to consult MY dictionary. What a very intellectual and spiritual post. I Like It!!!

Wayne Hermes| 8.26.10 @ 2:21PM

where are the different political and idealogical backgrounds. With few exceptions thesecould all be members of the DNC

Rev. Chuck Currie | 8.26.10 @ 3:28PM

Many are social conservatives. Some supported GW Bush and one even married his daughter.

Radegunda| 8.26.10 @ 7:24PM

GW Bush was a little clueless about the true nature of Islam. And some "social conservatives" are politically not very astute.

CalMark| 8.26.10 @ 2:59PM

Obama's clerical clean-up squad speaks!

If a public figure disdains Christianity and praises Islam and its practices to the heavens, people have a right to question.

And where were you lot when George W. Bush was being personally (not his policies or ideology, the MAN) judged, hated, and condemned from so-called Christian pulpits?

Rev. Chuck Currie | 8.26.10 @ 3:24PM

Please note that many on this list are social conservatives that don't support all or parts of the president's agenda. Many openly supported GW Bush and John McCain during their elections. Yuo cannot dismiss them as the president's "clerical clean-squad" unless you simply have no idea who these people are.

John II| 8.26.10 @ 3:35PM

How "many"? And what difference does it make? You're playing a cheap political game, Reverend Chuck, and I believe you need to cultivate some decent shame.

Drew| 8.26.10 @ 3:46PM

Answer the question Rev. Where were you when president Bush was being crucified by the press non stop for being a Christian? Such a simple question.

canuckistani| 8.26.10 @ 5:09PM

Not so fast. He was being crucified by the press for initiating taglines like "compassionate conservative" and endorsement of "faith-based initiatives" and doing the opposite. He called himself an evangelical, stacked his admin with hacks and managed to affect nearly every institution negatively. Is that being Christian? I hope not, because my Christian upbringing talked about the beatitudes, and a loving God, not a vengeful God surrounded by false prophets like Junior.
The question "What would Jesus do?" was asked and answered by Junior through his deeds.

John II| 8.26.10 @ 5:25PM

"He was being crucified by the press for initiating taglines like 'compassionate conservative' and endorsement of 'faith-based initiatives' . . ."

No, both those terms were going the rounds before Dubya took office, and he was mocked for using the "compassionate" tagline and for pursuing the initiatives, not for "doing the opposite," whatever that means. But the rest of your astonishingly ignorant post indicates that you wouldn't be interested.

Sorry, Nuckie, but the gaseous reverends have put me into the hopeless mode of punching at tar-babies. I'll let you alone now.

Brian| 8.28.10 @ 5:06PM

Ah heck John II !

Don't go. We loves ya!
Colorful.
Always on the mark.
Reasonably kind.
Conservativly humorous.
A comfortable shoe.
Keep it coming.

Radegunda| 8.26.10 @ 7:26PM

Do you really think the current occupant of the White House is affecting anything positively--aside from the paychecks of government employees?

Fredrick Ward| 8.27.10 @ 3:29PM

While the rest of ours is going to hell fast, and come Jan. 1, 2011 the speed of the falling axe will increase one thousand fold due to his hikes in taxes across the board.

CalMark| 8.26.10 @ 4:14PM

The man whose water you are carrying is the most radically pro-abortion president, ever. In the Illinois legislature, he usually voted "Present," except for abortion--when he always voted in favor.

I fail to see how any of so-called "social conservative" clergyman could support this ignoble, untruthful, untrustworthy man.

His religion is a matter of debate because he and his media sycophants have made it so.

Jerry| 8.26.10 @ 3:19PM

What makes you think that because you got a group of Ministers, Preachers, Rabbis or other men with some relationship to a church to sign your letter that you know the truth about Obamas religion? Anyone who could listen to Rev. Wright for 20 years and not be disgusted is not a Christian. One sermon would be enough for anyone with Christian upbringing.

His name is Muslim, he grew up in a Muslim church and with Muslim fathers and still thinks the call to prayers is one of the most beautiful sounds in the world. He supports Islam against Christianity whenever there is a conflict. Please don't believe you are so important that you know what his faith is because he says its Christian. I will bet not one of the people who signed this letter ever ministered a sermon to this President.

Rev. Chuck Currie | 8.26.10 @ 3:25PM

President Obama has gone to church and heard sermons from several people on this list. He has prayed with others. But don't let facts get in the way of your statements.

John II| 8.26.10 @ 3:44PM

Those facts mean nothing and have no direct bearing on the issue raised by Mr. Neumayer. A trained preacher serious about his Christian faith should be wary of the fallacy of ignoratio elenchi.

It is fascinating to observe the repetitious quality of your responses--rather like watching a dog returning to his vomit (Prov. 26:11)

Drew| 8.26.10 @ 3:51PM

I DON'T BELIEVE YOU! You are lying. Prove it.
Fraud!

John II| 8.26.10 @ 4:03PM

Well, Drew, it IS plausible that the Professor has frequented the pulpits of "several people" on the list--they're his kind of politicos. The trouble is that the Reverend's point, whether or not true, is not relevant to the discussion started by Mr. Neumayr.

cmm912| 8.26.10 @ 4:42PM

Dear Rev. Chuck:
You and the rest of obama's spitoon-carriers are working overtime these days aren't you? Just like the lame stream media, you and your social justice posse are a bunch of hacks.

Radegunda| 8.26.10 @ 7:29PM

Apparently he has learned nothing about integrity and decency by listening to those sermons.

Jimmy Carter called himself a Christian too, but he was very destructive and turned out to be a nasty, resentful little man and a committed anti-Semite.

Karina| 8.27.10 @ 3:23AM

Whoopee! I went to temple a couple time with my Jewish friends but that doesn't make me a Jew.

Fredrick Ward| 8.27.10 @ 3:40PM

You do realize that if he is in fact Muslim it would be perfectly acceptable for him to lie about his faith and intentions by the doctrine of al-Taqiyya? Such has been used by Muslims since the seventh century to confuse, confound and divide their enemies.

EP| 8.26.10 @ 3:26PM

@ Albert- you got it right. "Not about faith, but about honestly". But remember that faith is action and his actions speak louder than words.
As far as the signors of this letter, they are representatives of some of the most liberal organizations in this country. They don't hesitate to use their pulpit or national recognition for promoting their liberal propaganda but want nothing but silence from those with opposing views. They're also among the same groups who often wrote letters to Pres. Bush in opposition to Israel. One letter from the World Council of Churches encouraged it's members to sell off investments in companies profiting from Israel control of the West Bank. [Eye To Eye, p24, William Koenig].
Point is they are very heavily involved in politics and only profit from a congregation who either lacks discernment, ignores the TRUTH, or attends services as a social event or business venture.
I for one would not go to any church that belonged to the World Council of Churches nor The National Council of Churches, even if it was the last church on earth.

martha| 8.26.10 @ 3:34PM

Several participants from the task force, President’s Advisory Council
on Faith-Based and Neighborhood
Partnerships
A New Era of Partnerships:
Report of Recommendations to the President, which included, among other things recommendations for more federal resources to churches by lifting "matching requirements" for the non-profits. The non-profit church partners are then agents for distributing fed. funds.

Frances Jamison| 8.26.10 @ 3:44PM

This is the main reason I no longer attend church. My faith in God and our Lord Jesus is undiminished, however the tact people like this has taken assures me they have no clue what is actually happening here. Words are cheap, especially from this administration; his actions speak volumes. Wake up preachers! Stop enabling this fraud who definitely does not have America's or Christians values as a top priority!

Gill O’Teen ✝✡$| 8.26.10 @ 7:04PM

Frances, unfortunately for us all, the words his teleprompter scrolls are certainly not “cheap”.
Gill O’Teen ✝✡$
Don’t Tread on Me.
gill.Oteen07041776@gmail.com
“If there is no Hell, a good many preachers are obtaining money under false pretences.” - William Sunday.
Only 878 days to go

Thom| 8.26.10 @ 4:02PM

Rev. Chuck Currie,
When did Christianity take on as its central tenet that the mass murder of defenseless unborn life is a virtuous act? Or that robbing Peter to pay Paul for a vote is virtue and not just legalized theft? The man you call “Christian” is leading the charge on both accounts and you can’t seem to find fault with that under Christ’s teachings. The devout Christians I know can fill a note book with the man you call Christian trespasses against Christ’s teachings. You are apparently both blinded by his radiance and deft and dumb to boot.

I would remind you Rev. Currie that a horde of so called “Christian” theologians flocked to Adolf Hitler because of his overt “good deeds” while turning a blind eye to how those “good deeds” were ultimately paid for and by whom. You strike me as one of those “fools” that couldn’t see the Forrest for the trees in the 1930s. Whatever Barrack Obama’s faith is, if any at all, it has not substance to what the teachings of Christ are. Not a bit.

The last time I looked Rev. Currie the teachings of Marx and any flavor of Fascism aren’t compatible with Christianity and those that defend such have no legitimacy in such matters. It wouldn’t be the first time a charlatan has taken members of the “church” leadership for gain. It wouldn’t be the first time the “church” leadership has been the doorman for the devil’s work either.

Which is Rev. Currie, are you blind or just deaf?

Sheri| 8.27.10 @ 10:27AM

OMG, Thom!! Love this post. You hit the nail on the head. If I could, I'd give you an award for such a well written, concise, and truthful article. you should send it to American Thinker or AFA or ADF. Great stuff. I applaud you!!

Louis Jenkins| 8.26.10 @ 4:10PM

PCA (USA), the Latino Leadership Circle, the National Baptist Convention, Yale Divinty School, Esperanza, National Hispanic Leadership Conference, and Evangelicals for Social Action, that's enough for me. Rather, one should look at man as Marc has said. Too many people swearing that Obama is a Christian. Yet on the National Day of Prayer Franklin Graham is cast out as too controversial? Give us a break Rev. Currie.

Rev. D. Eric Williams | 8.26.10 @ 4:24PM

This clergy list is thoroughly leftist. (There are a couple names I don't recognize, so I cannot say EVERYONE on the list is leftist).

Yes, Obama is a "Christian" - a leftist, liberal "Christian," the kind who uses biblical terms and makes use of Christian tradition when convenient. But he doesn't care what the Bible says and he doesn't try to live according to its teaching. That is painfully obvious to anyone with a modicum of common scene.

canuckistani| 8.26.10 @ 5:17PM

Would Jesus be a leftist or a rightist?
From what we know, he was pretty disruptive to the status quo, denied material things and had this peculiar fascination with forgiveness and sitting down with the unwashed.
It was also curious point that the first gifts of Holy Spirit was the gifts of tongues and courage to hold true to his teachings in the face of certain death and spreading His Word beyond the conservative non-believers of his time.
Funny how His story can trump the false prophets' here every time.......

Margie| 8.26.10 @ 6:18PM

What would Jesus Be? Jesus IS the Truth. Jn. 14:6.

"God is Spirit, and those who worship Him must worship in Spirit and Truth." Jn. 4:24.

Liars need not apply.

Radegunda| 8.26.10 @ 7:34PM

The status quo is run by Democrats and leftists. The government bureaucracy and the media establishment are chock full of leftists. The educrat establishment is leftist.

Conservatives are trying to free the citizens from the grip of the greedy, bloated, jack-booted state.

And conservatives actually practice charity with their own resources. Leftists are more likely to vote for "charity" to be taken forcibly out of somebody else's pocket.

Funny how the facts trump propaganda.

John II| 8.26.10 @ 8:43PM

Jesus preached against smugness and special pleading, Nuckie. But skip it. I'm still trying to get all that sticky tar off my fists.

chester arthur| 8.26.10 @ 10:22PM

'Conservative non-believers'?Really?Seems like the conservatives are causing great upset to the leftist status quo these days.They seem to hold onto their beliefs even when maligned by Urkel the part time president as the great unwashed clinging to guns and bibles. I noticed the rev mentioned the guy whose son married the Bush's daughter.The father was Lt. Gov of Virginia,and constantly proposed statist laws,not exactly conservative,except by comparison to Urkel the part-time president.Funny how the truth trumps the free-thinkers-in-lockstep and their false idols of socialistic,self-worshiping leaders every time.

Kishego| 8.26.10 @ 4:41PM

Such a distinguished list of marxist Theologians. I geuss we should just sit down and pray for our "Collective Salvation", Rev Chuck? My son once told me "Dad you don't judge a book by it's cover", and I replied, " No, you judge a man by his actions". BHO and his cohorts, (and you and yours I might add) do not display the actions of a devout Christian.

jrjr| 8.26.10 @ 4:42PM

And now, openly, we see the flock of followers from the "churches" who have lined up behind the homos and lesbians, pedifiles, tolerants of bigotry and adultery, violators of communion, etc. "President Obama has been unwavering in confessing Christ as Lord." How can you say such things knowing that Hussein Obama sat in Wright's "church" for 20 years hearing and absorbing the hatred spewed by that being. As many have labeled Bozo, he worships himself, his view of the peasants, government - while sticking out his chin raising his head above you bots. He is destroying a nation built on Jesus and you beings are helping him. Perhaps some tapes of your sermons would shed some light on your views of we peasants.

Mr & Mrs. K A MICKEY| 8.26.10 @ 4:45PM

Wow.. guess what BOYS.
YOU Are WRONG ! how many times does this man have to make it clear in actions & words before you open your eyes to the truth ? Where does he attend church..? worried about disrupting ? really ? YOu buy that ? how about disrupting a golf course or an entire city ?no prbs w/that ?! but a church service ? where did bush go ? how about your lackey Carter ?
prez is laughing his butt off at you fools.
YOU do not speak for CHRISTIANS. You may speak for colleges & some churches like , REV. wrights.. "not God Bless America , GOD D_ America !" That is where he went to 'church for over 20 yrs ! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
wake up and smell the rat @!!
DO you know what happened to the National day of Prayer ? do you know the student slammed & silenced by her school for speaking of Christ.
Do you realize that the More MY GOD is silenced by bigots like you & your brown nosing w/ an atheist prez the more people will be lost ?
YOU Make me sick to the stomach.. relief will come in NOVEMBER !

Spyder308| 8.26.10 @ 4:48PM

This author is editor of Catholic World Report . Another reason why I am not Catholic anymore. I say President Obama is principled, educated and Christian. Jesus would like him. He cares for the poor and for social jsutice.
I read, I pray, I go to church every Sunday. I try to educate myself and my conscience. I am proud of President Obama.

John II| 8.26.10 @ 5:01PM

"I try to educate myself and my conscience."

Perhaps you should try a little harder. But I AM relieved that you don't consider yourself a Catholic.

Sheri| 8.27.10 @ 10:31AM

John II, don't know who you are, but I know I like you!! You've made me laugh quite a few times, but you've also spoken for most Christians who are appalled at the actions of late of this president. Hope you were able to get all the tar off your knuckles!!

Thom| 8.26.10 @ 5:01PM

Spyder308, where in your study of Christ does he authorize anyone under any circumstances to rob another of his possessions to give to someone of lesser means? Where does he state that killing the unborn for the convenience of the mother is a virtuous act? A famous Mexican bandit was interested in “social justice” and most people don’t associate his behavior with anything Christ had to say. Do you find any passages from Karl Marx in your “bible”? Sure sounds like your New Testament is quite different from mine.

You aren't a Catholic any longer because the auther of this piece is an Editor at Catholic World Report? Doesn't sound like you really have much "faith" in the teachings of Christ if your "faith" is that shallow and unsure.

Albert| 8.26.10 @ 5:25PM

The notion that Barack Obama "cares for the poor and for social justice" is so ludicrous that one can only laugh at such naiveté. Barack Obama, like almost all Democrats, NEED poor people as paid voters. They BUY poor people with taxpayer money. They guarantee that the poor will always remain poor so Democrats have a permanent political constituency. You are "proud" of a greedy, self absorbed, incompetent jack-ass.

Sheri| 8.27.10 @ 10:35AM

A huge AMEN to that one, Albert! Truer words haven't been spoken lately. Spyder308 is as ignorant as they come. Unfortunately, its many more of his/her type that have put that jack-ass in the White House!!

Radegunda| 8.26.10 @ 7:39PM

I guess "social justice" means everybody gets poorer at the same time, except for the government class and its chosen favorites.

Are you proud of Obama's habit of lying and acting contrary to law and the Constitution? Do you like his dictator's soul?
Are you proud of his repeated votes to shove babies who survived abortion attempts in a closet to die?

Spyder308| 8.27.10 @ 10:25AM

If a country doesn't have justice it doesn't have peace.
I like catching flack for a good cause. I haven't heard one lie, and our President is a Constitutional lawyer. Have your read the Constitution and the Federalist Papers that explain it?
A rising tied lifts all boats.

Albert| 8.27.10 @ 10:56AM

"If a country doesn't have justice it doesn't have peace." Exactly what are you saying here? Show me a country on Earth that has more justice than the USA. "Justice" is NOT taking money from people who EARN it and giving that money to people to whom it does not belong (e.g. "stimulus" bill). That is NOT justice. That is NOT fairness. That is NOT a "good cause." It is in fact criminal. "A rising tide" refers to an improving economy, which is impossible as long as government redistributes wealth. In reference to Obama-nomics, one should say "a lowering tide drops all boats and leaves them on dry land." If you haven't heard President Bozo lie, then you have simply not heard him speak. And I HAVE read the Constitution and the Federalist. Show me where in the Constitution you find the the term "wealth redistribution" (Bozo's stated goal). I'll show you where it is prohibited. You are not part of a good cause. You are a supporter of criminal acts by government, of destruction of freedom and prosperity by government, and a dupe who supports an incompetent boob. And Jesus would see President Bozo for what he is, a "teacher of the law", a liar, and a hypocrite. (See Matthew 12:38-39).

Lawyer| 9.2.10 @ 3:18PM

There really is no such thing as "Constitutional Lawyer". There are lawyers who study Constitutional Law, but most of them are in academia, not practice or in office (except for perhaps some judges). The O has no more Constitutional expertise than a first year law student.

Besides, the way our Constitution works now (or doesn't work), it only means what five idiots in black robes in DC think it means. There's nothing really to study about it anymore - only guesses as to what the aforementioned idiots might do.

chester arthur| 8.26.10 @ 10:32PM

Of course you would say Urkel the part time president is principled,educated,and christian and you are proud of him.You have placed yourself on the outside looking in at religiousity.It's no different than saying Paul Newman was a great,well educated physicist because he played one well in a movie,and you saw the movie and were convinced.The rest of us,whether religious or not,are slightly more skeptical about Urkel.He's certainly given us plenty of reason for this skepticism.His 'care' for the poor and for social justice also seems a like Pee Wee Herman doing Shakespeare in the park,except with less conviction.Mostly,he just seems like the narcissist of our nightmares.

Radioman777| 8.27.10 @ 12:35AM

Obama cares for the poor in the same way Colonel Sanders cared for chickens. "Not a Catholic anymore", I'm not and never was, but it's self-evident that the Catholic Church is much better off without you. As a matter of fact, do us Baptists a favor and stay far, far away. You seem like the type that would be to a congregation what Terrell Owens is to football teams, minus the actual talent, of course.

The truth is that you would believe any lie stating Obama is a Christian, regardless of the prima facie evidence before us all. We need not listen to flowery words recited from a teleprompter, but observe the actions of a man hell-bent on the destruction of a nation.
"Therefore by their fruits you will know them. " Matthew 7:20
The fruits brought forth by Obama are, so far as any casual observer can tell, are strife, hatred, the devaluation of human life, greed, avarice, envy, and idolatry. But, this shouldn't surprise anyone since they're the founding principles of Marxism.

Brian| 8.28.10 @ 6:35PM

Radioman

Loved your chicken joke!

Now explain something to me.
You are a Baptist - Chuck is a UCC guy.
You both quote Jesus and consider His word on anything to be the bottom line. Right? The truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God?
Question: which side of this left and right debate is Christ on? It seems unreasonable to suggest that He is both, considering the bible says He's not divided against Himself.
Which minister, from which church, can i get the right advice from - the right council? The bible is not much help when the Pastors on the left interpret it completely opposite from the Pastors on the right. And when it comes to checking out the variety of "fruit" dropping off the political and Christian trees that is supposed to identify which tree stands the tallest? That seems to be a matter of interpetation as well. What chance do we poor grass-roots Christians have?
Now i'm not going to toss and turn in bed tonight worring about what Chuck and his royal court of theological jesters swear is Gospel - but it would be exciting to see through the Christian fog once in a while and catch a breath of fresh air.

JOHN GALVIN| 8.28.10 @ 4:18PM

"Jesus would like him"??? As the only begotten Son of God, Jesus LOVED him enough to suffer and die for Obama's sins! I would like Obama to acknowledge this explicitly, instead of weaselling around.

Ginger| 8.30.10 @ 10:43AM

"He cares for the poor and for social justice"?? He dines on lobster while asking everyone else to tighten their belts & begs for more food for food banks because Americans are going hungry. He's a complete elitist hypocrite & cares nothing for the poor. Socialist justice is more like it.

cmm912| 8.26.10 @ 5:08PM

Dear Rev. Chuck:
You and your list of social justice flunkies make me want to puke. Whining that the media shouldn't cover this issue, and that it is not a political issue - well, excuse me, but we are talking about the leader of the free world lying, so yes indeed, it is a political issue. But just like good little water-carriers, you are carrying out your marching orders from the White House. Excuse me, I have to puke again.

canuckistani| 8.26.10 @ 5:24PM

Are you saying Junior was your man? How about RR with his parade of seers mediums and conjurers in the WH?
Perhaps the puking you describe is the purging of the demons that haunt you from the Junior days.

john galvin| 8.28.10 @ 4:23PM

For accuracy's sake, George W. Bush is not a "Junior". He has a connection, though...he defeated Albert Arnold Gore, Jr., to win the 2000 presidential election!

DIXIEBLITZ| 8.26.10 @ 6:03PM

I too pray that God with bless this great nation. That has very little to do with the circumspect way Obama professes to have a personal relationship with our lord and savior Jesus Christ. "Unwavering" in his demonstration of his belief is not a word I would choose to describe the professions I have witnessed. Reluctant seems a more fitting description.
In these dangerous and uncertain times it is well to consider all aspects of our elected "leaders", including the backgrounds, political and religious ties that form their thinking. Failure to do so has gotten him elected to the most powerful office in the world. Continued ignorance of what is becoming obvious, as he continues to befriend Muslims and their causes, will land us in headlong battle with the worldwide attempt to impose Sharia.
I do not intend to be one of the unsuspecting masses. Follow his ties, what shapes his thought and his submission to Islam. The dhimmi best beware. They have no friend at 1600 Pennsylvania avenue.

Gerry| 8.26.10 @ 7:05PM

By your deeds you shall know them.

Radegunda| 8.26.10 @ 7:14PM

Have you ever heard of "By their fruits ye shall know them"? I'm less concerned about what BHO calls himself than about the actions he takes. And he ALWAYS takes the side that will further the agenda of Islam. And when somebody lies so brazenly about so many things, we are justified in being skeptical when he says he has "always been a Christian"--a patently false statement!

I'm really not impressed by clerical credentials when it comes to understanding Obama or Islam. I've seen too much clerical cluelessness on the role of deception in advancing Islam. I've heard too many clerics who buy into the whitewashed view of Islam peddled by its apologists and who refuse to accept the fact that a religion actually teaches hatred of everyone outside its fold and advocates deceit along with violence as a way of achieving dominance over every other religion. Too many clerics simply ignore, or are ignorant of, the fact that jihad conquest has been the heart and soul of Islam since its earliest days.

BackToBasics| 8.26.10 @ 7:30PM

Mr. Currei,
Who said this?
You are like whitewashed tombs, clean on the outside but inside you are full of dead men's bones.

This person must have been judgemental to say something like this.

Who said this?
O generation of vipers, who has warned you to flee fromthe wrath to come.

Must have been another judgemental person.

Who wrote this?
But he that is spiritual judges all things.

How dare he say it is okay to make judgements.

RCV| 8.26.10 @ 7:42PM

HE is entitled to make such judgments; but He warned us against doing so.

Margie| 8.26.10 @ 8:58PM

Actually RCV, what He warned against is not to judge someone IF we were practicing the same sin. The verse says the following:

"Judge not, that you be not judged. For with the judgment you pronounce you will be judged, and the measure you give will be the measure you get." Mt. 7:1 & 2.

Lefties like to conveniently forget the second part of that verse. It is warning us that if we are doing the same thing and judge another, then we will be judged likewise. So, it is NOT against God's will to speak truthfully to someone about their behavior if they are doing wrong.

And I'm sure your Bible based Minister brother would tell you likewise.

RCV| 8.26.10 @ 10:33PM

No, he said, "let he who is without sin cast the first stone." The HE did the judging, and said, "Go, and sin no more." You've acknowledged your own sinfulness, Margie, so stop throwing stones left and right.

BackToBasics| 8.27.10 @ 6:36PM

---No, he said, "let he who ---
Your "No" is not correct. Margie correctly cites scripture from Matthew to back up her statement. Your "No" is an acknowledgement that you will not accept scriptures that go against your mindset. There is a balance to the scriptures. Sometimes we must make judgements and sometimes we must refrain from judgements. The Bible allows both sides of many aspects of life with instruction of how to go about things correctly in order to live a balanced life as best as possible.

If we cannot make judgements about others then how can we fulfill this COMMAND?

"Come out from among them and be ye separate, says the Lord." (2 Corinthians 6:17 - New Testament)

BackToBasics| 8.27.10 @ 6:22PM

RCV - you did not fully answer the questions.
Here are the answers to my questions:
Jesus
John the Baptist
Paul the Apostle

Two of 3 of them are not "HE" meaning God the Son. So, your partial answer of "HE" is not correct. We have a right to make judgements according to the Bible.

RCV| 8.26.10 @ 7:41PM

Rev. Currie: As a life-long active Christian, I want to thank you and the other clerics and leaders who signed this letter. The purveyors of hate who frequent this site and spew venom, not only on the President, but anyone who deigns to have a different political opinion than they do, shame Christianity and its core value of love and respect for other human beings. I'm glad to see people of faith respond in the dignified way you did. Speaking the truth in the midst of calumny!

Margie| 8.26.10 @ 8:50PM

RCV~ You've got to be kidding me. You'd do better to listen to your brother the Bible based Minister you spoke of the other day.. if indeed you were telling me the truth.

Purveyors of hate? Is that any way to treat your fellow Christians?

RCV| 8.26.10 @ 10:37PM

No, I'm not kidding, to start with. Talk to me, not my brother, and please stop insinuating I'm lying. He is indeed a minister at a Bible Church in Northern California. But I'll tell you one thing. He doesn't call the President names, even though he's not a supporter. And do you treat your fellow Christians any differently by calling them all sorts of things? Or do you just rationalize your behavior by insisting they're not Christians because they see things differently than you? The hate I see every day in the postings on this site sickens me deeply.

chester arthur| 8.26.10 @ 10:41PM

Don't you just love the christian love and compassion for his fellow man that RCV demonstrates when speaking of those who disagree with the man he loves?As pointed out many times by many posters,tolerance is not an essential part of the leftist personality.

Convet| 8.26.10 @ 11:45PM

Stupid is as stupid does.

Bobby| 8.28.10 @ 4:16PM

Hey RCV. Check this out. My favorite post on this subject. From Brian. I made a copy.
_________________________

Interesting letter.

It's obvious that Chuck and his 33 co-signers, many who have "personally" worshipped with the President, have either not been listening to, or have been ignoring, many of the statements he has been making publicly that puts the lie to Chuck's declaration -- second paragraph sentence one -- of Obama's "unwavering" confession of Christ.
I don't doubt for a minute that he has made that confession to "many" of those names above, to satisfy their ministerial expectations. But to the general public and world wide-audiences, and in answer to questions put to him, he has given new and slippery meaning to the word "unwavering".

Would it be reasonable to suggest that his firm and "unwavering" confession of Christ would be avoided like the plague in the company of Iman Feisal Aboul Raul or the President"s other Muslim friends --- while he's urgently assuring them that "America. the land of the free - is no longer a Christian Nation - under God?

I also discern flagrant hypocracy in your stated belief that "Questioning, even misrepresenting the faith of a confessing believer goes too far". And that "fellow Christians need to be encouraging to those who call Christ their Savior, not question the veracity of their faith".

Let me remind you that it was the "Christian right" that condemned a man who was running for President of the United States in the last election, because he didn't adhere to your infallible "Christian" qualifications.

He might not have been the right man for the job ---- Americans could have made that determination without your reprehensible over-inflated pious interference.

Everything i read about him at the time, and his response to questions put to him about his faith seemed to be carved in stone. I remember no wavering - no vacillating in any form as to his confession of Christ -- regardless of how many turbans may have been in his audience.

However, his integrity, honesty, family orientation, open mindedness, and total comitment to this America that he loves - that even his political enemies acknowledged of him --was not good enough for you. And you hung him on a cross of secular elitism.
I was impressed at the time that he would have served America with honor.

The third paragraph of your letter particularly reveals your collective hypocracy and total lack of unadulterated charity toward anyone who doesn't march to your theological cadence.

Your credibility is extremely questionable.

CautiousOne| 8.26.10 @ 10:30PM

Am I supposed to change my gut feeling about obama because of the above signatories? I think not. When anyone accumulates support of many, many "good" Christians, I become even more skeptical. My gut tells me there is no way obama is a born-again Christian. No way at all. NADA.

Todd| 8.26.10 @ 11:02PM

Funny but I don't see his preacher of 20 years Rev Wright on this list who was the one who turned him to "Christianity". Care to explain his omission Chuck?

Sheila Simmons| 8.26.10 @ 11:34PM

Black Liberation Theology is not Christianity. Anyone can say they are a Christian; the fruit tells the story.
Now the deeds of the flesh are evident, which are: immorality, impurity, sensuality, idolatry, sorcery, enmities, strife, jealousy, outbursts of anger, disputes, dissensions, factions,envying, drunkenness, carousing, and things like these...But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness...
Galatians 5:19-22

What fruit do we see in Obama's life?

Convet| 8.26.10 @ 11:38PM

FRAUDS! FAKIRS! COMMUNISTS!

Stevia| 8.27.10 @ 12:08AM

Reply to this
Stevia| 8.26.10 @ 11:50PM

First of all, this list of these "important" people does not impress me. I am a born again Christian, and what being born again means is change. Your thought patterns are changed, your desires are changed, the people you hang around with changes. Read I John 1. I don't see that with Obama.

I use to respect T.D. Jakes. He and his colleagues have lost all my respect. God calls us to discern. It is called wisdom. For heaven sakes don't close your eyes!

Did you hear the news today? Obama is going to spend U.S.A. tax payer money to restore and beautify Mosques around the world. Boy, what a plan for an unemployed, housing market crashing country to pay for. Now tell me he is a Christian.

Open your eyes! Lets see, he had 2 Muslim dads, he went to Muslim schools. He currently can recite Muslim prayers, and does. No that doesn't make him a Muslim. But I serve a Lord that doesn't share. He says, "Choose you this day whom you will serve." You can't be a Muslim-encouraging Christian-knocking president, and call yourself a Christian. It doesn't float with reason, and it doesn't float with God. He is either Lord of all, or not at all. It is a one-way religion. (And yes, it is the religion of love. We don't go around blowing up things to recruit people. We go around rescuing people and loving them to the Lord.) You can't serve 2 masters.

I am saddened that T.D. Jakes is not checking his Bible. The financial penalty Obama placed on colleges for allowing privatel Prayer Groups on campus, like they always have previously, is further evidence that he is not a Christian. He speaks of people of the Christian faith like they have a crutch. Well, who is he then? CLEARLY NOT A CHRISTIAN!

If it looks like a duck, quacks like a duck, and walks like a duck, it's a duck! Jakes needs to familiarize himself with his Bible, which states "You will know them by their fruit." Obama does not evidence Christian fruit by kissing up to Muslims, and kicking Christians. Sorry, Jakes, his "Christianity" is up for debate. I will not sit stupid.

Lesser Weevil| 8.27.10 @ 2:06AM

Titus 1:15-16

15 Unto the pure all things are pure : but unto them that are defiled and unbelieving is nothing pure; but even their mind and conscience is defiled . 16 They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate.

Tom Johnson| 8.27.10 @ 3:39AM

What a distinguished group...of fools.

Sheri| 8.27.10 @ 10:06AM

Bull-hockey, "REVEREND" Currie!! Just like the Pharasees and Sadducese!! Obama's actions speak WAAAAY louder than his lying words. Turning your back on Israel is NEVER a good thing. God's judgement hand is upon this nation!!

Sheri| 8.27.10 @ 10:13AM

Bull hockey, REVEREND Currie!! Actions speak louder than words, and Obama's actions certainly speak volumes when relating to MUSLIMS!! Take your blinders off! The Pharasees and Sadducese of our day seem to be in the list of those you have so kindly included here.

Wayne | 8.27.10 @ 11:00AM

It is with disbelief I read the letter signed by all of the so-called Christians advocating that Obama is a Christian.

Look at his works! Show me where you can find Biblically that his works match your belief that he is a Christian. Do you not even know the fruit of a Christian? Is it Divisiveness, Anger, Lies, Deceit, Haughtiness, Confusion? Those are the characteristics that Obam brings to the table. Indisputably the Bible tells us that Sin brings confusion. Maybe all he does is Sin and that he is just an unrepentant sinner, but a Christian none the less! Perhaps all those Years in the Church of Jeremiah Wright (a supposed convert to Christianity from Islam) he really learned all about Christian Love and plugged his ears whenever he heard "God Dxxx America".

He is a charlatan and you Sirs have either been duped or are in the same camp. I do not say that lightly either. There are too many today in the Church that come to deceive.

If Obama is truly "Christian" then why doesn't he just come out and tell us about his conversion. When was the moment that he turned his heart to Christ and denounced Isalm? If he did have a conversion, then perhaps he should openly denounce the tenets of Islam today, and pronounce Jesus as Lord and Savior. That would easily settle the matter and leave nothing in dispute. After all, we know that at one time he was a Muslim, His Father, Step Father, and Family he admits were Muslim. Do you suppose at an early age he denounced Islam while living at home?

When he kisses the hands and bows to leaders of Islamic Countries, (They have no separation of Church and State, Islam IS the Countries policy) and when he denounces the Jews and runs rough over them, he proves his allegiance. Did he not state in his own book "Dream of My Father" that when push comes to shove, he will support Islam? Read it for yourself sirs.

As far as I am concerned, all of those who signed the letter written are accomplice in the deception of America. Most probably for the favor of a President who can offer them succor for their supportive words. I am surprised that the Obama's Pastor and claimed Christian Leader, Jeremiah Wright did not sign the letter as well.

I think all of those who signed the letter should closely evaluate their role as Christian Leaders and consider who they follow. The signers have only added to the confusion.

Larry in Iowa| 8.27.10 @ 1:06PM

Obama was raised by atheists and, to a lesser extent, Moslems. His fathers side of the family is Moslem. He was raised for a time as a Moslem. He admits to having chosen his friends and his church for purely political reasons. Is there any reason not to assume he claims to be a Christian for the same reasons? He attended a “Christian” church that that attacked America and honored openly anti-American anti-Jew Louis Farrakhan. After he threw Jeremiah Wright under the bus for political expediency he found another preacher, the above mentioned Jim Wallis, to listen to, who just happens to be another hard left socialist.

He wrote in his book that in a confrontation between Islam and Christians he would side with the Islamists. He bashes Israel, avoids Christian worship and organizations, lavishes praise on Islam and even hosts Ramadan celebrations in the White House. Certainly no reasons there to doubt his deep and abiding Christian faith.

GK| 8.27.10 @ 7:43PM

We need good evidence of President Obama's actions against Christians and the church, as you are giving, Larry, in order to hopefully educate and influence the above Christian leaders about why we are so concerned that Obama may be anti-Christian and, further, anti-American at the core.

All of his personal history would suggest that there was no place or time when he understood true Christianity nor embraced it. Where is his connection to true believers? We see lots of dots connected to leftist socialism, the Muslim belief, and to communism. What was his church, if not a front for leftist liberation theology and anti-American sentiment? All of his associates and cabinet members are leftists, including some communists, and his "religion" most obviously is secular progressive or secular radicalism such as theirs. It seems strange that a true Christian would time and time again choose atheists and secularists to carry out his (the President's) wishes if he were a Christian.

It should be no surprise to us that there are indeed more than a few political leaders who will seize whatever front is needed at the time to convince the innocent and naive. An opportunist who is also a supporter of Alinsky-style radicalism indeed makes that the foundation of his or her strategy--to deceive for what they believe is a justifiable purpose. Obama was a student of one of Alinsky's disciples in Chicago, and ACORN is a front for this style of radicalism. If one needs to cough up a conversion experience, it can be managed by a radical. A spiritual or political opportunist is like a chameleon, able to adapt as necessary. He will use whatever religious label needed at the time to accomplish the favored goals of "social change" or "social justice." Sadly, many of the liberal churches and thinly veneered Christian universities have latched on to this substitute for the real thing.

That is not how most Christians would define Christianity. It is a sincere faith that comes from a change of the heart and is without artifice or scheming. Let God judge the heart, but we must judge the fruit.

We certainly do not have from our President's upbringing, nor from his choices that side continually with the agnostic far-left, any assurance that Obama has made a true confession of his sins and need for the Savior, Jesus Christ. That is what defines a Christian, first of all, and the evidence will be borne out in the fruit of one's life. If Jesus could inspect the fruit of the money-changers in the Temple and identify them as not being true believers, we can learn that merely being in a building someone calls a church, under the tutelage of someone who calls himself a Reverend does not a Christian make.

Respectfully, Rev. Currie, I must disagree with your summation, kind as it is meant to be. Sure, I know you say we cannot judge one's heart. That is true, that only God knows if Obama is saved or if he is merely using a few Christian words to fool leaders like yourself. But most of us just cannot understand how, with all the objections that many here are expressing (and I sometimes wish they were more gently spoken), you and other Christian leaders might defend Obama while labeling a great Christian philanthropist and evangelist such as Franklin Graham an extremist. He is doing tremendous humanitarian work in Africa and elsewhere, bringing healing and hope where extremist Muslims in countries such as Sudan are chopping off arms, legs, noses, etc. and killing and raping Christians in the name of Allah.

It is not enough for the listed leaders above to feel sorry for Obama, maybe because he is black. No one here has said anything disparaging his race--only his dishonesty and cover-up and hiding behind a Christian facade that does not seem real. It is not impressive that the signatories believe "social justice" is the heart and substance of Christianity. So do the agnostic or atheistic social radicals. So does the person of any ethnic background who clings to long-past slights and fails to forgive. Who seeks to make envy and social class a holy grail for activism.

Almost all of America is coming to see that this man can not be trusted, that he is weak of character, unqualified for his job, and dangerous to our country in many ways. They see now that Obama is undermining true Christian belief and practice (including disregard for life not only of unborn or even born alive babies, but also of the pastors in Kenya his Uncle Odinga murdered, supposedly with Obama's approval)

Let's list more examples and let people decide for themselves. Maybe we need only a few more examples and some of these pastors or leaders on Rev. Currie's list will want to take them off the list.

RCV| 8.27.10 @ 10:25PM

Larry, he said no such thing in his book. I'd be happy to qoute the actual passage for you if you like, but you might try reading it for yourself first.

Tattoo Pokeymon| 8.27.10 @ 1:47PM

You are all blind fools, just the way they like you to be. The end of times is playing true as you all stand in support of the Anti-Christ !

Brian| 8.27.10 @ 9:24PM

So let me get this straight. Obama CAN say America is not a Christian nation, but Americans can NOT say Obama is not a christian? How convenient.

WeMustResist| 8.28.10 @ 1:06AM

..."the personal faith of our leaders should not be up for public debate." Surely this should only be true if the leaders were trustworty and well-intentioned. If the leaders believe in darkness and death, hatred and lies then their personal faith matters, and should be revealed. You assume all leaders are above suspicion. If you studied Islam you would find it incompatible with a free society, and would be more worried about how it is infiltrating and weakening governments in the West. The golden years of trust are gone. From now to the end of time we must wake up and defend freedom every day or be conquered by evil.

Matthew Cox| 8.28.10 @ 12:27PM

I too am a pastor of the Gospel of Jesus Christ, and although I have never worshipped or prayed with our president I feel confident in saying that a person's faith is always relevant in trying to understand a person's core values and how they will choose to live out of their values, or not. Basically I find talk to be cheap, especially among theologians and politicians. What I look for is what fruit is on the tree, then I know who they really are, and what they are about.

Richard Ong| 8.30.10 @ 5:30PM

Exactly.

Brian| 8.28.10 @ 1:17PM

Interesting letter.

It is obvious that Chuck and his 33 co-signers, many who have "personally" worshipped with the President, have either not been listening to, or have been ignoring, many of the statements he has been making "publicly" that puts the lie to Chuck's declaration -- second paragraph sentence one -- of Obama's "unwavering" confessing of Christ.
I don't for a minute doubt that he has made that "confession in the presence of "many" of those listed above - to satisfy their ministerial expectations. However, to the general public and a world wide audience, and in answer to questions put to him, he has given new and slippery meaning to the word "wavering".

Would it be reasonable to suggest that his firm and "unwavering" confession of Christ would be avoided like the plague in the company of Imam Feisal Aboul Raul or the President's other Muslim friends -- while he urgently assures them that America, the land of the free, is no longer a Christian Nation - under God?

I also discern flagrant hypocracy in your stated belief that "questioning, even misrepresenting the faith of a confessing believer goes too far". And that "fellow Christians need to be an encouragement to those who call Christ their Savior" - "not question the veracity of their faith".

Let me remind you that it was the "Christian right" that condemned a man who was running for President of the United States in the last election because he didn't adhere to your infallible "Christian" qualifications.

He might not have been the right man for the job --- America could have made that determination without your reprehensible and over-inflated pious interference.

Everything i read about him at the time, and his response to questions put to him about his faith, seemed to be carved in stone. I remember no wavering - no vacillating in any form as to his confession of Christ - regardless of how many turbans may have been in his audience.

However, his integrity, sincerity, honesty, family orientation, open-mindedness, and total commitment to this America he loves - that even his political enemies acknowledged of him -- was not good enough for you. You hung him on a cross of secular elitism.
I was impressed at the time that he would have served America with honor.

The third paragraph of your letter particularly reveals your collective hypocracy and total lack of unadulterated charity toward anyone who doesn't march to your theological cadence.

Your credibility is extremely questionable.

Alston| 8.29.10 @ 11:14AM

"he gave them eyes and they do not see, he gave them ears and they do not hear"

You all are fools

Alston| 8.29.10 @ 7:24PM

"As Christian leaders" What a sham. I am surprised that "their tongues did not cleave to the roofs of their mouths"

Dennis| 8.30.10 @ 1:23AM

Not in the least bit convinced by Obama's words, nor your endorsements.

His continuing actions speak so much louder than his words, that even a blind man can understand his true heart - deeply embedded in the Muslim 'faith'.

EJK| 8.30.10 @ 2:40PM

Rev. Currie
education is a wonderful thing but is a poor substitute for the wisdom and discernment that the Holy Spirit provides. Mr Obama's fruit speaks with a deafening cry.
The modern church has rendered the Holiness of God into their image thusly removing the power of Gospel and conforming to this world. It grieves me to see leaders so deceived. Have you no ability to sense a sales job? Of course he will say all the right things to you, he says all the right things to everyone. I pray the Spirit will testify the truth to you.

shawn| 8.30.10 @ 3:04PM

wow.. im surprised you don't have pastor fred phelps signature up on that list

Peter| 8.31.10 @ 10:03AM

Along the lines of this reasoning, Paul should never have written the epistle to the Galatians questioning the faith of the Judaizers.

Chris McClure| 8.31.10 @ 2:47PM

I strongly disagree with your entire premise.

Mat 7:15 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.
Mat 7:16 Ye shall know them by their fruits.

Mr. Obama's "fruits" speak volumes as to his beliefs. Our morals and values are, should be, what guides us, in particular in our decision making. For you, and those who signed the statement with you, to say that his "faith" or lack of faith does not matter to a leader of a country is quite frankly surprising. Your statement is political correctness gone amok.

It's reasoning like this that has led to the millions of murdered children in the womb, because everyone should be allowed to make their own decisions. You probably would also say that homosexuality is ok, because it is an individual's decision. Through the bonding of a man and woman is the means by which a society procreates. Any society that turns from the family and the bonding of men and women is doomed to failure.

Charity for others, gentlemen, means you have to be honest and stand on the truth. Love the sinner, but hate the sin. Trying to coddle and leave everyone to their pleasures AND faith, leads to the next step, relativism.

As leaders of the various religions, you gentlemen should be concerned with the salvation of souls and providing the "truth" to your flock.

Next time you see Mr. Obama, ask him to come to Mass or a church service with you. See if he accepts. I doubt he will. He'll probably use the excuse that he doesn't want to disturb the congregation with his presence. As he has before when asked. How humble can he be! I don't recall any other Presidents having an issue with attending services.

Wake up and grow a pair gentlemen. Stand up and be counted. Souls are relying on you!!!!!

Raphael Green| 9.2.10 @ 5:30PM

Contrary to the belief that such issues don't or shouldn't matter when choosing a public servant, or that morality can't be legislated-- it is my conviction along with millions of others that deeply held ideological, philosophical and theological paradigms are not easily or quickly divorced when debating, legislating and executing public policy. Since the legislation and execution of public policy involves all of us ( and not just the lives of the public servant and those who espouse his/her views) this becomes an extremely important matter.

Many have been deceptively convinced that faith is merely a private matter that has no legitimate role in the public square or in the marketplace. This is may be plausible for secularists, unrealistic idealists and politically savvy strategists (religious and otherwise). But, we must not forget that no true adherent of any religious faith, spiritual ideology or philosophy can or will violate (in good conscience) the cardinal precepts of his faith. No matter how diplomatic one may be, at some point there are irreconcilable differences in personal matters and in matters involving local, national and international socio-economic and political policy. That makes one's personal faith automatically and unavoidably a politically-sensitive issue.

Currently, in the United States, many individuals from divergent backgrounds--some with diametrically opposed faith views --are striving and managing to honor the right of every individual to worship as they please. Pluralism (religious and otherwise) is marginally, sincerely and nominally accepted and practiced here. However, we must not be ignorant of or in denial about the realities of deeply held presuppositions (of all kinds) and their irresistible impact in and on the decision-making process in both private and public life. The truth be told, every vote cast for or against a political candidate or initiative is inseparably connected to spiritual views/values and moral under-pennings that inform, interpret and influence the legislation and execution of policies that we all are expected to abide by and uphold (on some level) in order to be in compliance with the laws of the land.

In light of this we find ourselves in a very serious dilemma. How does a proponent of a non-theistic civil religious worldview fully work for and support policy that favors proponents who espouse a theistic worldview that diminishes and relegates their respective views and values to definitions, standards and policy that all parties involved view as detrimental to the health and destiny of our nation without negatively compromising on non-negotiable convictions? Even a cursory review of history reveals that acceptable resolution in this area has been extremely difficult and very costly-- even to the point of the destruction of human life at times.

In my opinion, this is the plight and dilemma of the ages with which we also wrestle in our day and thus both the knowledge and scrutiny of a public official's espoused faith is essential.

Raphael Green| 9.2.10 @ 5:38PM

I agree that the president should not to be bullied or bashed because of his faith. Nor is his faith to be used as a political football. However, this does not negate the fact that it remains important and essential for us to know what his faith affiliation actually is and what the ramifications are. For example, would or should it matter if any public servant was/is a member of the Church of Satan or a religious group that endorses polygamy or racial prejudice?
Contrary to the belief that such issues don't matter when choosing a public servant, it is my conviction along with millions of others that deeply held ideological, philosophical and theological paradigms are not easily or quickly divorced when debating, legislating and executing public policy. Since the legislation and execution of public policy involves all of us, this becomes an extremely important matter.
Many have been deceptively convinced that faith is merely a private matter that has no legitimate role or place in the public square or in the marketplace. This may be plausible for secularists, unrealistic idealists and politically savvy strategists (religious and otherwise). But, we must not forget that no true adherent of any religious faith or spiritual persuasion can or will violate (in good conscience) the cardinal precepts of his faith—even at the cost of his own life. No matter how diplomatic one may be, at some point there are irreconcilable differences in personal matters and in matters involving local, national and international socio-economic and political policy. That makes one's personal faith automatically and unavoidably a politically-sensitive issue.
Currently, in the United States, many individuals from divergent backgrounds--some with diametrically opposed faith views --are striving and managing to honor the right of every individual to worship as they please. Pluralism (religious and otherwise) is marginally, sincerely and nominally accepted and practiced here. However, we must not be ignorant of or in denial about the realities of deeply held presuppositions (of all kinds) and their irresistible impact in and on the decision-making process in both private and public life. The truth be told, every vote cast for or against a political candidate or initiative is inseparably connected to spiritual views/values and moral under-pennings that inform, interpret and influence the legislation and execution of policies that we all are expected to abide by and uphold (on some level) to be in compliance with the law of the land.
In light of this we find ourselves in a very serious dilemma. How does a proponent of a non-theistic civil religious worldview fully work for and support policy that favors proponents who espouse a theistic worldview that diminishes and relegates their respective views and values to definitions, standards and policy that all parties involved view as detrimental to the health and destiny of our nation and forces a compromise on non-negotiable convictions? Even a cursory review of history reveals that sustainable resolutions in this area has been extremely difficult and very costly-- even to the point of the destruction of human life at times.
In my opinion, such is the plight and dilemma of the ages with which we also wrestle in our day and thus both the knowledge and scrutiny of a public official's espoused faith is essential.

Matt| 8.26.10 @ 2:07PM

Lol. You hit the nail on the head Robbins Mitchell.

Don Chambers| 8.26.10 @ 11:14PM

I would say a MauMau wrapped in a Marxist wrapped in an agnostic.

Barb| 8.28.10 @ 8:53PM

Amen, brother!

jack| 8.26.10 @ 6:32AM

The MSM acts in such perfect lockstep with the Democrats it is laughable. Why do so many think Obama is a Muslim. There is not enough space to count the reasons. I do not believe he is a Musim. I do not believe he is a Christian. He is a disciple of Rev Wright,the hate mongering anti American racist whom he has called a great influence on his life.
Obama is the perfect choice to lead the Dem party which is in truth the Anti American party.
He is the product of an affirmative action education. This guy is a human gaffe machine. He makes Biden sound like a sensible guy.
Can anyone imagine if Bush or any Republican had throw that gutterball or the girly pitch? We would be seeing it everyday on MSM. Those hurt Obama because how could someone who is supposed to be an American male,throw a baseball like that and bowl like a complete dope?
His basketball game is highly over rated. He may be the only black American in history to shoot a two hand set shot.
We are screwed.
Never forget,Proper Tire Inflation was always the tell this guy is a stone cold moron

A. C. Santore| 8.26.10 @ 10:19AM

"Proper Tire Inflation" and don't forget "Sneeze Into your Elbow."

BackToBasics| 8.26.10 @ 7:33PM

Wasn't that rich stuff? Just think, the no. 3 person (Pelosi) caring enough to teach us on a video how to sneeze properly.

That has our enemies shaking in their boots with fear, not laughter. Maybe they will vibrate to pieces. Who says Pelosi is not tough on our enemies?

BackToBasics| 8.26.10 @ 7:35PM

PS - That's why tough-as-nails Pelosi was wearing the head covering when she visited the middle east!!! She didn't want to catch a cold and start sneezing.

BackToBasics| 8.26.10 @ 7:37PM

Why are RINO's such as Bush and McCain so concerned that they be loved by people with ideas like this? Get over it RINO's!!!!

Anthony| 8.26.10 @ 11:34AM

Speaking of stone cold morons, anybody see V.P. O'Biteme recently?
The Summer of Recovery is fading fast; hey O'Biteme, " WHERE'S THE BEEF"?

Charles Martel| 8.26.10 @ 3:45PM

Yes, he was in the news just yesterday, being quoted as saying that not only had the Democrats righted the ship of state and pointed it and the economy in the right direction, but that there was "NO DOUBT" that they had done so.

How startling to learn that I do not exist.

+++

John II| 8.26.10 @ 5:03PM

Like all folks of his persuasion, Professor Obama is very selective with his doubts.

Kylie Estwick| 8.26.10 @ 6:41AM

Hilarious. The only "fact" in this opinion column is Obama really is the President.
Werent the radical white...excuse me...radical right screaming at the top of their lungs that Obama was too closely associated with an all black CHRISTIAN church?? Hysterical.
I wonder what it would feel like to consistently be wrong, over and over again, about pretty much everything? Could some of you tea partiers explain the feeling to me? Im curious.

Appleby| 8.26.10 @ 6:58AM

If you believe a *church* where the preacher curses his own country from the pulpit is Christianity, you have a big surprise coming when you are confronted one day with the Real Article.

I grew up in a Mob neighbourhood, and let me assure you, the Mafia is a good deal more *religious* than the President ever was. As they would tell you and he would too -- if he trusted you -- its business.

Average Infidel| 8.26.10 @ 7:05AM

You equate "with an ALL BLACK CHRISTIAN church" as if this is an example of what Christianity is, you are kidding right. Let's see a marxist theology, G-dam"n pastor, with the idea of collective salvation as the only way to redeem oneself, you call this a Christian church, surely the kool-aid has infected your little commie mind hasen't it. If you don't see the error of your thoughts, the truth is one thing that is rather hard to deny, only if you seek not the truth but bull-shale, you are one of those who had better hide into the bowels of the "one" cause the time for personal responsibility of one's own actions are about to hit you rather hard. " i wonder what it would feel like to be consistently wrong over and over again " It must suck to have a lost mind. It must suck even futher to lack a critical thinking mind, or ignorant posts. Slither thee back under thy rock serpent.

gardengirl| 8.26.10 @ 7:19AM

I wonder what it is like to be a leftist with your head planted so firmly up your posterior that you can't see daylight. Go suck an egg.

Tom| 8.26.10 @ 7:26AM

Kylie,
"Which one of these are incorrect?
he speaks of his "Muslim roots," says he hails from "generations of Muslims," was born to a line of Muslim males and given by them an Arabic name, went to a Muslim school in Islamic Indonesia, speaks glowingly of Islam whenever he gets the chance, holds a Ramadan dinner in the White House, tells his NASA head to turn the space agency into a Muslim outreach program, and last but not least insults doctrinal Christians routinely."

Is there a SINGLE fact in this article that is incorrect? You might dispute the conclusions drawn but you cannot dispute the facts. If you have any evidence any fact in this article is incorrect please present it.
Cordially,
Tom

Joseph | 8.26.10 @ 8:08AM

You will get a first hand experience this Nov.

Stammon| 8.26.10 @ 8:35AM

One thing is certain, even for an addle headed lib like you; Obama said 57 states. It is not possible that an American Politician could think that the USA has 57 states, unless he wasn't an American Politician.

BackToBasics| 8.26.10 @ 10:07PM

Probably in Indonesia Madrassas school they teach that places like Samoa, Guam, Okinawa, etc. are American states, hence the 57. Says a lot if this is so.

Unfortunately, the left has done such a masterful job in our own public schools that probably 40%-50% of 12 graders in America would not know that 50 is the correct answer. The same percentage probably could not find it on a globe either.

Scary stuff and there have been studies showing this to be the case.

Redstateboy| 8.26.10 @ 8:55AM

The "fact" you fawning Obama syncophants chose to simply ignore your Messiah insanely, stupidly claiming he sat 20 Years in a Pew of a Black Theology Church and never heard the rantings and ravings of its Pastor once... is the astounding "fact"

ds80| 8.26.10 @ 10:07AM

Kykie ... you don't much recognize the truth, do you?

The issue was his association with a church that spewed radical "liberation theology".

I suspect what you really have issue with is your discomfort in realizing those pre-election warnings by conservatives about this community organizer are all beginning to ring true.

Kinda sucks for you, all those chickens coming home to roost

ds80| 8.26.10 @ 10:09AM

obvious typo

uncle curmudgeon| 8.26.10 @ 10:11AM

Thank you, Kylie, for being such a perfect examplar of what RET asserts is the most important constituancy of the Democratic Party: the moron vote. And you're such a cute little thing, too.

Nancy Murdoch| 8.26.10 @ 11:46AM

And it is people like you that are to blame for the mess we are suffering in this country. The man had no credentials to be POTUS, and sold the public the hopey, changey dopey crap.

Any objective look at the man should have raised all kinds of questions...like exactly what do you mean by redistribute the wealth? Except we have a media that is so far up his butt that they can't see the light of day. It's amusing to watch the MSM completely make fools of themselves on a daily basis.

Until we have an INFORMED electorate that actually use their brain before casting their vote, we will continue to have morons running (ruining) this country.

TR| 8.26.10 @ 12:29PM

Once again, as usual for leftist marxists, she reveals herself as a racist. Nowhere in the article or in any of the previous posts is race even alluded to until our "wiser than thou" racist Kylie refers to the "radical white, excuse me radical right". I have so far never been able to determine the race or ethnic background of any poster unless they personally reveal it in a post. Again proving that the racists and sexists belong in large part to the liberal left. Good job Kylie you racist.
You claim that concerned citizens "screamed at the top of their lungs that Obama was too closely associated with an all-black Christian church". Please reference one single legitimate source of proof of that absurd statement. The objection of clear minded concerned patriots was the CONTENT OF THE SERMONS that were quite accessible and very clearly hatefilled and anti-American from that supposed leader Rev. Wright. He was the concern, not a "black christian church".
I have listened to his sermons and was agast that anyone could sit there without standing up and condemning his vile, hate filled, racist, lying words. But our president sat there for 20 years and praised this racist until it became politically too damaging for his election prospects.
Now, Kylie, or excuse me, madam racist, has Obama not done the very things that are detailed in the article by Mr. Nuemayr? I have personally researched his comments, and everything he said that Obama has done WAS SAID OR DONE BY OBAMA. You are a head in the sand ignoramus, and your ilk pose a grave and immediate danger to our nation.
So I reflect the question back to you...what is it like to be wrong over and over about pretty much everything? And how can you live with yourself knowing your life is ruled by racism?
Could some of you America hating marxists explain the feeling to me? I'm curious.

Gill O’Teen ✝✡$| 8.26.10 @ 1:04PM

There is a video played on Fox News in which the kisser of flies asks, “"Which passages of scripture should guide our public policy? Should we go with Leviticus, which suggests slavery is OK and that eating shellfish is an abomination? Or we could go with Deuteronomy, which suggests stoning your child if he strays from the faith? Or should we just stick to the Sermon on the Mount?”

A true Christian knows that in any disagreement between the words of the Old Testament Prophets and the Words of The Son Of Mary, The Child born In Bethlehem wins every time. the junkie posing as a leader evidently didn’t notice the first syllable of the name of the faith the peoples who accept Jesus as their Lord and Savior use for themselves.

In a speech he gave June 4, 1 YO, beavisbud said, “All of us have a responsibility to work for the day when the mothers of Israelis and Palestinians can see their children grow up without fear, when the holy land of the three great faiths is the place of peace that God intended it to be, when Jerusalem is a secure and lasting home for Jews and Christians and Muslims and a place for all of the children of Abraham to mingle peacefully together as in the story of Isra, when Moses, Jesus, and Mohammed — peace be upon them — joined in prayer.”

The phrase “peace be upon them” is rarely used by the Christians I know - if at all, but is common practice for those who ascribe to the religion of pieces.

Then there is the hilarious photo of the incompetent won with a fly sucking on his mouth.
[ http://www.google.com/images?hl=en&q=obama fly on lip&um=1&ie=UTF-8&source=og&sa=N&tab=wi&biw=800&bih=469 ]
The normal reflex for anybody in a similar situation would be to brush the bug away. But the narcissist-on-vacation just accepted the insect’s devotion. This reminded me that Baal is mentioned widely in the Old Testament as the primary pagan idol of the Phoenicians. Christians associate Baal with the Devil and often in that sense use the name ‘Beelzebub’ what was the "lord of flies".

Gill O’Teen ✝✡$
Don’t Tread on Me.
gill.Oteen07041776@gmail.com
“What I was suggesting -- you're absolutely right that John McCain has not talked about my Muslim faith...” - obummer in an interview with ABC's George Stephanopoulos.
Only 878 days to go

Charles Martel| 8.26.10 @ 3:50PM

I was going to bring up that Freudian slip myself, but you beat me to it.

When was the last time you got the name of your own religion wrong? Yeah, me neither.

878 very long days.

+++

Grzmlyk| 8.26.10 @ 1:32PM

You a gotdam bigot.

Hate crime over here! Hate crime over here!

Kylie Estwick is a racist hater!

I'll tell you what it feels like to be consistently wrong, jackass: It feels like you're right - doesn't it?

Here's an example of Kylie's idea of "being right:"

If it walks like a duck, talks like a duck, quacks like a duck, waddles like a duck, lays eggs like a duck and has a bill like a duck, it must be . . . a piano!

If it talks like a Muslim sympathizer, enacts policy like Muslim sympathizer, disaparges Christianity like a Muslim sympathizer, sympathizes with Muslims like a Muslim sympathizer and believes in freedom of religion only for Muslims like a Muslim sympathizer, it's . . . a Christian!

jose| 8.26.10 @ 4:48PM

You call that a Church. ? shame on you ..
your gram would be ashamed.. not to mention the Reverend !
that was not a church of love..but of hate.. not a church of Joining. but of separation. shame on you ! the ONLY reason you think we should love it is b/c the great deceiver loves it..
we are not so blind ..

canuckistani| 8.26.10 @ 5:37PM

Kylie, don't bother.
I remember watching a program that asked a hillbilly if he would change places with Michael Jordan. He asked "would I be black?", Yes, "then sorry no I would not".
It is that simple to describe the underpinnings of the opposition to Obama that reaches way into the absurd like this article.
There's a small percentage of people that will not accept anything but what their narrow minds permit as leadership material. RR was a senile fraud for much of his last term, and Junior did more to dismantle American exceptionalism than BHO could ever hope, but yet they choose to ignore those facts.

TR| 8.26.10 @ 6:38PM

No facts mentioned by you canukistani, just typical liberal mushheaded comment. Concerning narrowmindedness - j'accuse. Referencing a stupid comment you allegedly saw concerning someone you call a hilbilly, and using that to pass off judgement of those who have well thought out reasons to oppose Obama.
You are the essence of stupidity. I have read your previous posts and you never fail to confirm your unwavering excrement filled thoughts.

Grzmlyk| 8.26.10 @ 11:07PM

That's right, buddy boy. Everybody knows that all black people are perfect. Therefore, anyone who criticizes a black person about anything can only be a racist. What could be clearer?

And when it comes to Our Lord and Savior Barack Hussein Obama - whose very existence is perfection itself - it is simply astonishing that some people don't see a god; they see an incompetent, ignorant, bigoted, angry, petulant, puerile, tyrannical piece of shit.

Your completely relevant point about some fictitious "program" you watched, in which a "hillbilly" (no bigotry there) said he wouldn't trade places with Michael Jordan, is perhaps the single most cogent point I have ever seen made. Kudos to you, you intellectual giant.

"Leadership material?" You think with that brain, junior, or just filter sewage through it?

Zilque| 8.26.10 @ 5:47PM

(Sigh) We're racists because we disagree with Obama's actions and policies. What crap! If that's all you have to bring to the table, you are truly to be pitied.

Radegunda| 8.26.10 @ 7:44PM

Actually, we were noting that it's a very un-Christian "church," founded by a "former Muslim" and very Islam-friendly, as well as hostile to white people and to America.

And we were right about that. Everything I predicted about Obama has come to pass, only more so. The critics on the right have been 100 percent correct about Obama--except some of them were too kind and optimistic.

chester arthur| 8.26.10 @ 10:53PM

You are curious?How could you wonder what it's like to be consistently wrong?Seems like you are living that dream every time you defend the hysterical hilarity of Urkelnomics.Calling the church of the rev Wright' Christian' and going no farther ignores the 'liberation' theology of hate taught there while Urkel didn't hear it for 20 years.I noticed your guy's promise of taking care of the national debt and unemployment has involved,oh,let's say more than a few exaagerations,mis-statements,and maybe,just maybe,those naughty little lies.I think you know what it feels like to be consistently wrong,consistently out of touch with American society,and consistently,stridently voiciferous in defending that which can't be defended by facts.I think your little part time president knows too,but doesn't particularly care.

ConservativeWoman| 8.26.10 @ 6:48AM

Kylie, it would be interesting if you wished to dispute the facts within the article rather than simply engage in hyperbole. I guess we were right about Obama's association with a church based on black liberation theology which is hardly mainstream Christian. Otherwise he wouldn't have thrown Reverend Wright under the bus.

Will| 8.26.10 @ 7:04AM

Thank you. I'm curious about the photo accompanying the article. It shows men in bowties standing at the sides of the room. Surely they're not F.O.I., those notorious racists?

martin j smith| 8.26.10 @ 7:27AM

Obama's genetics aside, his behavior invites a lot of questions and thus curiosity and scrutiny. His apologia to the Muslim ( and rest of the world ) his remarks about the GZ Mosque, his hostile policies towards Israel, and his background of connections with radical and even terrorist types make one feel suspicious. I don't know if Obama himself knows who he is. But on any given day he could grow beard like Karx Marx or perhaps wear full Imam regalia with Koran on his right and Das Kapital on the Left hand. The this is not a coincidental.

Phillip | 8.26.10 @ 7:38AM

In order to understand Obama's Christianity, we must examine the only church he has ever been a member of - http://pilgrim-platform.org/20.....hing-else/

Dai Alanye | 8.26.10 @ 7:47AM

A person can't be Christian and spend twenty years in a "church" that was dedicated to hate. Although his primary reason for joining it was, of course, political. In Chicago he needed Jeremiah Wright but on the road to Washington he was able to discard the Reverend as soon as Jeremiah blasphemed by criticizing The Anointed One.

Blessed Handsome (his names in translation) worships only at the church of Obama.

Webster| 8.26.10 @ 7:50AM

By Definition if you have Dual Citizenship at Birth you are not a Natural Born Citizen.

GAME OVER

Justice Is Coming

Uphold Your Oaths or Pay the Price

Louis Jenkins| 8.26.10 @ 8:15AM

Webster:

The plot thickens. Obama may be a dual citizen at best, but he is no Natural Born citizen. I'm still awaiting the long form Birth Certificate.

Charles Martel| 8.26.10 @ 4:06PM

I hate to break it to you, but you are wrong on that point: you *can* have dual citizenship at birth and be a "natural born citizen". I know because I am such.

My father immigrated from France and was a naturalized US citizen prior to my birth. Much to my surprise, I learned years later from French consular officials that, despite my birth in the United States to naturalized citizens (my mother was one as well), that made me a French citizen. Voilà: both parents Americans, born in the US, the very picture of a "natural born citizen", but I have also had dual nationality, even if I didn't know it until only a few years ago, since birth.

You might want to familiarize yourself with Title VIII of the US Code, Section 1401. It will clear all that up for you. It is at the heart of the whole birth certificate controversy because, had little Barry in fact been whelped offshore, his mother was at the time too young to have conveyed her US citizenship upon him under the law as it was then written (it has since been amended to expand the qualifications, though not retroactively).

Do not hang your hat on this to end the "game". We have 878 days of hard work in front of us to thwart this treasonous poseur, and we're going to need our heads in it.

+++

Bill| 8.26.10 @ 4:15PM

And we're gonna need "the Hammer."

Captain Crunch| 8.26.10 @ 8:47PM

Well done, Bill. you beat me to it. I was going to commend Charles (above) for being the "Hammer". It's 732 all over again. Tours here we come!!!!

Louis Jenkins| 8.26.10 @ 4:49PM

Not hanging on this thread to bring Obama's end. It's just another factor that doesn't make sense.

Obama has NOT provided a certified copy of an original, typed, vault copy, long-form, birth certificate, signed by his mother and delivering doctor with the name of the hospital thereon, to be used to conclusively prove one of the two key elements used in determining his “natural born” citizenship status per the U.S. Constitution, i.e., where he was born.

Being a “natural born citizen” is required to serve in the office of the Presidency under our U.S. Constitution. Obama has only produced an internet digital image of a computer-generated, short-form, registration of birth form called a “Certification of Live Birth”, (aka COLB). And some question the genuineness of that proffered document. But note, it does not say “Certificate” it says “Certification”. Thus it is not a Birth “Certificate”.

Charles Martel| 8.26.10 @ 4:59PM

That is all correct, and you'll get no argument from me on any of it.

One of the following statements is true, the other false.

(1) The document his defenders love to point to reflects only the information purported to be in the database of the Oahu County registrar.

(2) As anyone who has ever worked with computers can tell you, it is completely impossible to manipulate information in a database: once entered it is utterly sacrosanct and inviolable.

Heh.

+++

Thom| 8.26.10 @ 6:27PM

Louis Jenkins/Charles Martel,

I’m 58 years old and can’t remember a time when the explicit wording of the Constitution meant anything in a court of law. I’m also adopted and my Birth Certificate is a legal forgery. I have the original “photo copy” from the 50s near my birth date and the certified ones my state of birth gives out. There is a subtle difference between the two, the older one led me to the “truth” of my birth certificate but both “forgeries” have passed muster throughout 4 decades of security checks……..

I have the proof my certificate is a forgery and if I went to enough trouble and expense could probably get the state of my birth to give up the correct information (that I already have by other means) as both my adoptive parents are now deceased.

My chief problem with the King’s COLB is that an actual Birth Certificate, even my forgery has people, places and signatures on it that can be traced down. All the people listed on my birth certificate lied, including my adoptive parents and all the attending medical personnel that signed off on it. The “state” sanctioned that lying. It is not a stretch to think that a few well placed dollars couldn’t have produced another kind of forgery. If the King was not such a consistent decepticon about his past, this would be much about nothing as I’m sure whatever else the actual birth certificate says it most certainly says the King was born in US territory. Some write this matter off simply because there was a press release in a local paper when the King was supposedly born in Hawaii. There was a press release when I was born too and I was adopted 6 months later. One wonders just what would happen if I ran down all those people who said I was born to the parents my birth certificate says. Either way, whatever the King is hiding along with everything else he is hiding the root of that is fear of something being revealed that will be his undoing. He and he alone has the power to hide his past the way he does thus the more he does this the more untrustworthily he appears. Eventually appearances and the what the masses believe become one in the same.

Young Joy| 8.26.10 @ 7:55AM

Obama's belief system is not especially interesting. He is a narcicist and that explains itself.

Charles Martel| 8.26.10 @ 4:18PM

I am reminded of lines from the 1972 Peter O'Toole classic, "The Ruling Class". A mental patient who thinks he is God inherits from his not-all-that-stable-either father the title, land, and wealth of an English earldom. He is asked by his uncle's wife why he thinks he is God. His answer: "Simple. When I pray to Him, I find I am talking to myself."

+++

Timothy L. Pennell| 8.26.10 @ 7:56AM

I like how he BLOWS OFF the National Prayer Breakfast and goes and plays GOLF, but he makes G8DD8MN SURE that he makes time for the Ramada Inn Dinner. Or whatever they call it.
And let's not forget all those YEARS in Muslim Schools. Those paragons of learning where young Barry's BELIEFS would be ingrained in to his head. "Barack. Look out! There's a JEW behind that rock. KILL HIM!" And he learned all of the DEATH TO AMERICA stuff. And the DEATH TO ISRAEL stuff. Of course, the GREAT SATAN and the LITTLE SATAN stuff. Kneeling on his PRAYER RUG 5 times a day, and praying to ALLAH. And don't forget, he was BORN to a Muslim Father. That alone, makes him Muslim. And as far as that PIG - Jeremiah Wright's concerned...He's a 'Former' Muslim, himself. And his 'Church' handed out Lifetime achievement Awards to Nation of Islam Negro - Louis Farrakhan and the wonderful guy who had the Lockerbie bombing of Pan Am flight 103 initiated. Khadafi. The Muslim. From Libya.
This guy is a MUSLIM. He's ALWAYS been a MUSLIM. And if we could just get a hold of all that PAPERWORK that he's got LOCKED AWAY in a VAULT in Hawaii, all of these things could be put to rest.
It seems to me, that if he could get his Senate Election Opponents' SEALED DIVORCE RECORDS unsealed, we the people, should be able to find out WHAT HE'S HIDING.
Capeesh?

EasTexan| 8.26.10 @ 7:57AM

I take him as an narcissist, inside an elitist, wrapped in an American-hating opportunist.

CapedConservative| 8.26.10 @ 8:06AM

Why don't I see any references to the most telling moment of all.... speaking to George Stephanopoulos on "This Week" in an unguarded, unscripted moment discussing how McCain had made no mention of his religion which Obama himself referred to as "my Muslim faith" and had to be corrected by Stephanopoulos. Recognizing his mistake, he then immediately tried to revise his statement to mean something else.

Sowell Disciple| 8.26.10 @ 8:12AM

Great article, but I would change the list with one deletion and one addition:

1. The White House Ramadan dinner has become a tradition, having been also hosted by Bush and, I believe, Clinton.

2. Obama is the only president to have referred to "my Muslim faith" (on This Week, in an interview with Stephanopoulis, who stepped in to correct him!).

Another big factor touched upon in the article is that Obama has proven so fundamentally dishonest that nothing he says should be taken at face value. He has nullified his 20-year attendance at a "Christian" church for political reasons, just as he probably entered the church as a political base.

Tom| 8.26.10 @ 8:30AM

I saw Obama's interview where he said "my Muslim faith". It could have been a slip up. Despite his press he is not the most elegant of speakers. But it certainly could lead certain people to doubt.

Au Contraire| 8.26.10 @ 1:50PM

What he said was, "They (my opponents) talk about my 'Muslim' faith."

I'm no fan of Obama, but he was clearly referring to what others were saying about him. It's really not that confusing.

Charles Martel| 8.26.10 @ 4:24PM

His exact words were: "John McCain has not talked about my muslim faith." Stephanopoulos helpfully corrected him.

Quite a bit different from the straw man argument you suggest that he set up. If you're going to try to defend this four-flushing charlatan with his own words, make sure you quote him accurately.

But then again, accurate quotation does not serve the cause of his defense, so I completely understand your motivation toward deliberate error.

+++

Larry Sinclair| 8.26.10 @ 8:13AM

Bisexual Muslim sashaying around in mom jeans and sandals. . .
Just don’t make fun of his “Love Handles” like Maureen at the NYT did, he’s sensitive. . .

RCV| 8.26.10 @ 11:46AM

You sure seem obsessed with Obama's body and sexuality.....hmm.....

chester arthur| 8.26.10 @ 10:59PM

RCV,you silly savage.Let's not talk about your obsession with those mentioning Obama's body and sexuality.Hmmmm.

Show Us| 8.26.10 @ 8:17AM

"A" Students Don't Seal Their Grades!

Only Dumb A$$es With Plenty of D's & F's To Hide Do.

Charles Martel| 8.26.10 @ 4:27PM

American students fraudulently obtaining scholarships open only to foreigners do. So do foreign students now pretending to be Americans.

Just saying.

+++

Louis Jenkins| 8.26.10 @ 8:20AM

So is he or is he not a Muslim? All of a sudden the newsmedia is touting the Pretender n Chief's Christianity. Never before has the newsmedia staged an all out blitz to make sure the US population understands that Obama is a Christian. Too much is at stake. If GW had been questioned on his faith the newsmedia wouldn't have raised a finger. Why? I'll let the reader figure it out. Always watch what he does. That's enough for me.

Anthony| 8.26.10 @ 8:51AM

Like may Leftists, Obama is more in tune with his Muslim cultural roots than religious, hence I believe he is a Muslim, even if a non practicing one, if you accept his protestations that he is a Christian. However, I don't accept that he does not practice his Muslim faith in private. He knows America is not ready for a professed Muslim president.
Many leftist Jews & Christians keep the symbols and observances of their faith, but do not actively practice or believe, yet they call themselves Jews and Christians.
Even if Obama truly believes he's a Christian, his Christianity in the form of Black Liberation Theology, leaves much to be desired.
So this semantic exercise, while interesting, misses the point. Obama is anti-American; regardless if it's his Muslim or radical BLT beliefs, or a combination of the two, that got him there.

Denver Todd| 8.26.10 @ 8:53AM

A certain talk show host of initials G.B. defined Obama as a Christian who most Christians don't recognize. I think that is a pretty good definition.

Charles Martel| 8.26.10 @ 4:31PM

However accurately is describes Barry's "faith", that's irony, since that "certain talk show host of initials G.B." is of a certain heresy of initials L.D.S.

+++

Denver Todd| 8.27.10 @ 9:02AM

Since you brought it up, I have no problem adding GB to the group of Christians that most Christians don't recognize. But he doesn't call himself a Christian either. He seem fairly silent about his religion. On radio, he comes across as a Christian in sentiment, but we all know he is a Mormon. I think he would make a good believer in the true Christ, and it is a shame that in all his searching for salvation, he landed in the LDS. It beats me how the LDS gave him back his soul, being heresy as you say. Incidentally, I think the Mormon church informs many of GB's views; self reliance is one. Food storage is another.

As a note, to head off the fray of including Mormons in Protestant Christianity, I am defining Christianity as those who would find their home in the Apostles Creed, Nicene Creed, and Heidelberg Catechism. No true Mormon will ever get near these.

BackToBasics| 8.26.10 @ 10:13PM

GB is not as far to the right as he is credited for. I think he's a "closet centrist" who is fairly close to GW Bush's views.

J Golden| 8.26.10 @ 9:02AM

NASA thinks they may have discovered some new planets circling distant star. . . that is if it makes the Muslims feel any better about themselves. . .
Never mind.

jrjr| 8.26.10 @ 4:57PM

BHO has sent his NASA guy around the muslim world to tell those people how good BHO is. The guy's send off was to tell the world of the magnificent scientific contributions from the muslims, i.e., donkey carts, towel head dresses, and long flowing male gowns -- along with salutations to keep up the good work they are doing with killing babies and females.

BackToBasics| 8.26.10 @ 10:16PM

NASA now says the moon is really only a crescent moon. All appearances otherwise are only optical illusions.

davelnaf| 8.26.10 @ 9:10AM

Well written article. In matters of faith most Americans probably don’t care a great deal what Obama calls himself. And what he calls himself is irrelevant to what he actually is anyway.

The recent furor over his mosque comments certainly suggests that he has deep Muslims sympathies. But he probably holds back declaring himself something like a practicing Muslim—for symbolic reasons—because he believes that he has a real shot at being re-elected—who knows what will happen between now and then.

And it’s very likely that politics is not Obama’s religion either. He probably views it as a mechanism to inflate his ego, and if anything is Obama’s true religion it is that.

jack| 8.26.10 @ 9:15AM

It doesn't matter if he is Muslim or Christian to me. What matters to me is he Anti American and anti capitalism. He is pro government. He is pro union. He is for everything that is destroying our freedom and the greatest economic engine in the history of the world. Is it because he believes the liberal dogma beat into our children for the past 50 years?
His victory is also a result of the Republicans electing conservatives in name only. The right had no real standard bearer,Bush was a compassionate conservative,which means he was not conservative because conservatism is by its very nature more compassionate than socialism or liberalism and McCain,well McCain was and is whatever he thinks will get him elected or gain him favor with the MSM,he is the absolute worst kind of representative and like Snow and Collins his vote is always up to the highest bidder.
We need a leader. Newt,Forbes and Armey are the only leaders I have seen since Reagan who can articulate conservtism,but all three have been badly damaged by the Democrat controlled main stream media.

Stephanie| 8.26.10 @ 11:30AM

You can put Ms. Palin in with that short list of leaders Jack. She has conviction and doesn't mince words. I can't wait to see her on Saturday.

Redstateboy| 8.26.10 @ 11:39AM

DadGum.... I think you really nailed it. McCain...! He was picked for us by the MSM..! Hell!! In CT. Liber-uls were crossing State lines casting votes for him in the Primary! If it wasn't for Palin.. He would've lost a Lot Bigger than he did.

geokster in TX| 8.26.10 @ 9:23AM

I was thinking about this the other day as the press was going on about Nancy Pelosi's rant about religious tolerance. You know something is wrong when we are supposed to be tolerant of a people whose religion demands its followers kill you.

I find it interesting and disturbing that the left hasn't snapped to this yet.

Dustoff| 8.26.10 @ 9:43AM

I find it interesting and disturbing that the left hasn't snapped to this yet
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Just like they didn't understand that Stalin killed many of his generals.

Their blind to the truth.

Lawler Nicoteri| 8.26.10 @ 9:34AM

How about: "a Kenyan doofus wrapped in a towel"?

335blues| 8.26.10 @ 9:39AM

obama is a marxist. By definition, that makes him an atheist. What kind of Christian would accuse another Christian of "clinging to their God"? When the WH says he 'prays every day', they are referring to when he and his advisors huddle each day to conference call with george soros, and plot the next move in dismantling America.

Dustoff| 8.26.10 @ 9:41AM

This morning news was reporting that this "peaceful Iman" was calling for the destruction of Israel.

Hmmmm, not so peaceful is he.

Interested Conservative| 8.26.10 @ 9:54AM

Mr . Neumayr writes, . . . "relativists quietly admire the rupture in the relationship between religion and reason in Islamic culture because they engineered a similar rupture in their own."

"Rupture"? Oh my, if only.

Has Islam ever been within a continent of "reason"? If only, and that includes a its very brief episode in Iberia, and associated scholars.

We're 1,400 years in, and still no hint of a reformation, enlightenment, or even industry.

Still, it could happen.

JP| 8.26.10 @ 11:06AM

Islam had its Reformation in 1979 with the Islamic Revolution. Some say it began even earlier with the formation of the Wanahbist sect amongst the nomads of Saudi Arabia in the late 19th Century.

Interested Conservative| 8.26.10 @ 11:22AM

R eformation, not D eformation.

Charles Martel| 8.26.10 @ 4:42PM

As a historian, I must differ with you on your assessment of the 1979 revolution as the launching of an Islamic reformation. That year saw only established religious leaders seizing temporal power in a state that had already been Shi'ite for nearly all of its history since its conquest in the seventh century by Arab barbarians.

On the other hand, your identification as such of Wahhabism, first arising in the 18th (not 19th) century, is far closer to the mark.

+++

wbheff| 8.26.10 @ 10:00AM

His religion or lack of same is less important than the fact that, for the first time in our history, we have a person occupying, or more accurately "polluting" the office of President of the United State, who hates America. He was raised and mentored to hate America, and that is why he wants to "fundamentally transform" our free society into a marxist hell-hole, with him and his fellow traitors in todays Democrat party as our rulers. Obama and those fellow traitors of his represent a clear and present danger to our country.

Marc Jeric| 8.26.10 @ 3:36PM

Right - wbheff! Except I see that you still harbor hopes that Abu Hussein al-Mombassa (or wherever in Kenya that marxist Muslim was born) will not succeed in communizing America. Yes - he will, because after 45 years of teacher unions "teaching" our voters are mostly illiterate nincompoops full of self-esteem, without any knowledge of history, literature, culture... After the executive order amnesty of 15 million illiterate Mexican Indians he will have a permanent majority, and after the prolonged depression he will proclaim himself a dictator for life in 2016.

Steve A| 8.26.10 @ 10:42AM

Barak needs to focus on 3 things for the remainder of his 1 & only term. 1) vacations ;
2) golf; 3) shooting hoops. This activity will limit the damage he inflicts on the rest of us.

Redstateboy| 8.26.10 @ 11:47AM

Along the lines of... "if Wash.,DC. got Nuked" but not as radical... and I can accept that - would hate to lose the Smithsonian

Humphrey Dumfries| 8.26.10 @ 10:52AM

SYNCRETISM: the combination of different forms of belief or practice

JP| 8.26.10 @ 11:11AM

When its all said and done, we will discover that the President has no real beliefs one way or another. His real interests are himself, his ego, and his golf game - in that order.

In 18 months he will announce to the world that he will not seek reelection. The reasons he will give will be many (spend more time with his family, heal from the emotional turbulence of poltics, etc...). But the real reason is he has become bored with his job.

Steve A| 8.26.10 @ 11:50AM

If things continue to deteriorate for BO I predict we will witness a complete meltdown. His personality & life experience are such that he will really be unable to accept the reality that he is being rejected on a massive scale & he will lash out in a way never before seen in a president.

Ned| 8.26.10 @ 12:10PM

IF ONLY he would pull an LBJ and not seek reelection! The stock market would rise so fast it would make your nose bleed, but this terminal narcissist will NEVER pull the plug on himself... all things being, of course, about what’s best for HIM.

wodiej| 8.26.10 @ 11:13AM

courageous article.

buddha8| 8.26.10 @ 11:28AM

As a comparative religious scholar I venture this guess at Obama's "soul":
A Marxist-Anti-Capitalist
Wrapped in a Distorted Black Liberation Christianity
Enfolded in an Infantile Illusory Islam
Rooted in a Deeply Racist Narcissist Who Worships only Himself as "God's Instrument"
to purify America!

Margie| 8.26.10 @ 11:39AM

Wow, buddha8. As a Bible believing Christian for over 30 years I'd say you got that right!

Nancy in NC| 8.26.10 @ 11:52AM

I think Obama worships himself, and is terribly upset that many of us fail to see his "greatness".

Not to worry, Obummer, you still have the media and the kool-aid drinkers at your feet.

dw| 8.26.10 @ 12:13PM

He can not have lived through those muslim influences and not be affected. He obviously is.
He can not have sat in the pew of the rascist rev. wright and not be negatively influenced by that drivel.
But whatever religion he claims to be a member of pales to the religion of liberalism that we know he is a member of. That has influenced his hate for america and his resultant attempt at americas dismantling.
In reality all three of these influences have combined to create this narcissist anti-american.
Exactly why he is what he is not as important as defeating him and his fellow socialist, because we know what they are trying to do.

Margie| 8.26.10 @ 12:20PM

Amen to that, dw.
Down to defeat go the Socialists.
Let's get out the vote!

ddn| 8.26.10 @ 12:20PM

I think it is time that EVERYONE start judging politicians by their actions and not their words. They ALWAYS tell people what they perceive that they want to hear. Their actions are the ONLY indicators of what they truly think and believe. Words are fickle and can conceal what actions truly shall reveal.

I am ready at a moments notice to tell anyone of my love for Jesus Christ and to detail what the Lord means to mean personally and why. I am very guarded to support, in any way, that which opposes Jesus Christ (i.e. islam).

islam says that God has no Son. Islam says that Jesus was not crucified or resurrected. islam says that Jesus was a prophet, but not God. islam opposes Jesus Christ and all that Jesus Christ said of Himself. Therefore, islam calls Jesus Christ a liar.

If obama is a Christian, then why is he so mundane about Christianity, yet gets so excited about islam? One can definitely see the love obama has for islam. I cannot see any love for Christ.

Bill| 8.26.10 @ 12:28PM

Since my college days, I have been puzzled by those who find non-Western ways of thinking so attractive when they know so little about Western ways of thinking and how those ways came about.

Those few Westerners who actually know something about non-Western thought find most of the Western fascination with non-Western ways to be silly and skewed in focus. A recent article on the Western fascination with Tibetan Buddhism on the Reason website was enlightening to me on this point.

Nate| 8.26.10 @ 12:37PM

Mr. Neumayr,

What an atrocious and sloppy piece of writing this is. Do you consider yourself a journalist of any kind? Your bio lists you as a "press critic." (And a Catholic. Have you ever heard of bearing false witness? Have you ever read the Old Testament's proscriptions of gossip?)

In this country, Mr. Neumayr, we respect religion and the individual's right to express his faith as he chooses.

If a man says he's a Christian, it is uncivil and utterly in bad faith to speculate what he "really" is, since you are essentially challenging him to prove something that cannot be proven.

I think you are a child molester. Why? I just think so, and I'd like to see you prove you're not.

That's the kind of twisted Orwellian logic with which you're smearing Obama.

I'm surprised the Spectator publishes such irresponsible and debased writing.

There's plenty of room for you to criticize the president on any number of topics, but this sort of speculation about the man's soul is un-American. There's something weirdly fascistic about it, and it's certainly a debased form of public discourse.

Purple Lips| 8.26.10 @ 1:10PM

Nate,
Come on, can the stridency. And since you are in the mood to discourse on Christianity, what about the line that "You will know them by thier fruits?"In 2008our President has referred to Christians as Bittler Clingers (or those bitter people who cling to thier guns and religion); he sat for 20 years listening to a radical Pentocostal preacher spew hatred for Caucasions; he's gone out of his way to insult Isrealis, but he also has gone out of his way to shower respect, honor, and accolades on Islam.

Nice try. But few people by into your stawman arguements. Fewer still take your rants seriously.

Nate| 8.26.10 @ 2:35PM

Well ...

Let's actually look at some of what you say here.

Obama criticized certain people as bitter clingers, it is true. It was by far his worst gaffe, and he deserves criticism for it. I don't think -- in case you're interested in being accurate -- it's fair to say he criticized all Christians this way, but there it is.

Then you move on to Obama's attendance at a urban black church for twenty years. Somehow this issue is raised as proof of -- what? His Islamism? His relativism? His what?

Now black urban churches were the seat of the only political organizing blacks were permitted in this country for a century after slavery ended. Again, I'm pointing something out here in case you're interested in thinking about this issue.

Black churches have a long history of fiery rhetoric and of expressing black anger about decades -- centuries -- of oppression and violence.

Wright is a part of that tradition -- a bit belated, it's true, and a little intemperate to be sure. But still, he's a Christian pastor of a Christian church.

Incidentally, while Fox News was playing the two or three minutes of clips they were able to isolate from those 20 years of attendance by Obama, you don't recall -- do you? -- the Rev. Billy Graham or Dr. Richard Land or any of the other respectable leaders of the Christian right from joining in the lynch mob.

The reason for this is that actual Christians understand the complexity of religious life, the complexity of our relationships with our pastors (I certainly don't agree with every political view of my priest but I respect his religious authority and wisdom).

The criticism of Obama's involvement with Rev. Wright was essentially secular in nature.

Hear me now: it was the criticism of Obama's involvement in that church that was irreligious, relativistic, secular, and made in profound bad faith.

So "nice try," Purple Lips. But you'll have to do a little more than repeat what you heard on right wing radio to get the better of me!

TM| 8.26.10 @ 4:08PM

zing!

Margie| 8.26.10 @ 4:52PM

Nate aka Liberal Reader,

By the way, how come you changed your handle?

Hear me now: You lie!

And by the way, ACTUAL Christians don't agree with Marxists and/or Communists. ACTUAL Christians don't play games with the Truth. Actual Christians aren't shills for the Left.

So "nice try" Libby Red heart. But you'll have to do a lot better than repeat the WH talking points to get the better of us!

Nate| 8.26.10 @ 6:08PM

Margie,

You accuse me of lying but don't even point out which claim I've made you think is a lie.

This is undignified.

How did I lie?

As for your certitude of how true Christians vote -- all like you, of course, no difference being tolerable to the fascist's creepy little heart -- perhaps you should go one better and maintain that only white Republicans who speak English and think exactly as you do on all things can with any accuracy call themselves Christians.

Now I thought we decided yesterday that you were going to start WORKING a little harder around here. No more freeloading off the radio or Fox News.

Let's get with it, fat ass!

No more Whoppers for you!

Margie| 8.26.10 @ 6:47PM

Your very being is one of a huge lie, fat indeed, just like your humongous ego. Your posts are filled with deceit and you drip with condescension. And who is the "we" that you speak of? You're a legend in your own mind, Libby Red Heart! I hope you repent.

Radegunda| 8.26.10 @ 8:06PM

And Dems think that no black person or Latino person should be allowed to be a Republican. Any black Republican gets the most vicious treatment from the left.

And it's really rich to accuse Margie of being a "fascist" after you declared it "un-American" to "speculate" about someone's soul!! It's "un-American" to think and say things you disagree with!

John II| 8.26.10 @ 6:32PM

"Wright is a part of that tradition -- a bit belated, it's true, and a little intemperate to be sure."

A bit? A little? On the other hand, if we dispense with the smarmy modification, your concessions are remarkably telling.

1. Belated. Does that mean Wright is a cheap huckster, playing an outdated tune to an audience of ignoramuses eager to be treated like victims and victimized in turn by the passage of the collection plate? So that Wright can afford to live in his cozy and gated residence while his flock continue to live in dangerous ghettoes?

2. Intemperate? What else do you have in mind besides "God damn America"? Would you call it intemperate for a man to devote his whole adult life to scamming the half-educated? And which would you say is more intemperate, the scamming by hucksters or the enabling of the scamming by a class of condescending nitwits biased in favor of black hucksterism?

I don't know about you, Nate, but in case you missed it, I just got the better of your clumsily revealing language. But there will be no "zing" from TM.

And now back to my "Three Stooges" collection.

DRed| 8.26.10 @ 7:20PM

As Benedict XVI said last year " Opulence and waste are no longer acceptable when the tragedy of hunger is assuming ever greater proportions. " I imagine he even kept a straight face while he said that.

John II| 8.26.10 @ 8:39PM

Er, hi DReddie. Long time no rant. Except: what's the connection? I mean, I was waiting with my legendary patience for Nate to reply. You're not Nate, are you?

And now back to Moe, Larry, and Curly.

Nate| 8.26.10 @ 8:59PM

John -- I'm just not all that interested in what you've written, so I don't have much of a response.

Wright is a preacher in a tradition in which damning America made -- at one time -- all the sense in the world. If you were enslaved in shackles (actual shakles, not Palin's imaginary ones), or if you were systematically denied your civil rights by the state, you'd damn America too.

Now is it getting abit late in the day for this sort of rhetoric? Possibly.

But the reactionary language in response to it makes me think otherwise, and quite often I'm tempted to say with Rev. Wright, God Damn America!

But we say such things when we love someone or something.

The One We've Been Waiting For| 8.26.10 @ 9:06PM

We're buying shrimp, Nate. Wright is under the bus and if you keep it up you'll be there too.

John II| 8.26.10 @ 9:12PM

"But we say such things when we love someone or something."

Well, I've been married for 36 years, and it just wouldn't occur to me to say something like that to my wife.

Let's be generous, though. MAYBE the America damned by the duplicitous Wright is an America he's imagined has made him duplicitous.

Even so, it doesn't wash, Nate. And you degrade Wright as a moral agent accountable to God when you make excuses for his behavior.

Face it. A huckster is a huckster. And Professor Obama is as much a huckster as the man he publicly dumped after twenty years of imbibing his shallow gospel. It all stinks to high heaven, so to speak.

And now back to the last episodes of "The Three Stooges" before the good Curly was felled by a stroke. Now THERE'S a man: he gave his all for his art.

Nate| 8.26.10 @ 10:24PM

John II

Your moral judgments are worth shit. You're a bigot, John. You're an ideological bigot and you're intellectually dishonest.

John II| 8.26.10 @ 11:53PM

Well, I'm relieved to learn that my judgments are at least worth shit. I've had people tell me that my judgments are utterly worthless. People remarkably like yourself.

You're much too kind, Nate.

DRed| 8.26.10 @ 11:27PM

Hi John,

Good to see you back again. My only point was that while I would join you in castigating Rev. Wright for living in a luxe house while his flock live in poverty, that sort of hypocrisy is hardly unique to his church. As a particularly egregious example of that hypocrisy, I mentioned the pope, who had the chutzpah to lecture the world on the evils of opulence while living in a palace (and slumming during the summers in a mere castle) and enjoying a wardrobe that would make Liberace blush. Does that not bother you at all?

John II| 8.27.10 @ 12:04AM

Oh. Okay, I guess I see your intended connection.

But how do you know the Holy Father enjoys his wardrobe? Did you know that, when he was Prefect of the Congregation for This and That under John Paul II, he asked his boss to be relieved of his duties so he could return home to Bavaria and just teach and do parish work?

John Paul said, "Sorry--no; you're needed here."

Well, there have surely been a fair number of corrupt gamers among the popes through the ages, DReddie, but go easy on Joe Ratzinger, aka Benedict XVI. He has the single supreme qualification for the job: he doesn't want it.

And he's stuck with it for what little is left of his life. Trust me: he's okay.

DRed| 8.27.10 @ 12:45PM

While it's tangential to my point, I have no idea what the pope thinks of his wardrobe. I meant enjoyed in the sense of 'has for his use'.

chester arthur| 8.26.10 @ 11:07PM

So criticism of Obama and the church of 'liberation theology' bad,insulting anyone who disagrees with you with hyperbolic circular logic is 'good'.Now that we understand your flat earth world view,we may not agree with you,as no thinking person does,but I think we understand you a little better.By the way,your medicinal cocktail isn't working.

Radegunda| 8.26.10 @ 8:01PM

Speculation about someone's soul is "un-American"?? Bring on the Thought Police! Yes, in America you should not be permitted to "speculate" about anything the leftists want to keep hidden!

Did you ever hear about the First Amendment? I bet you're screaming out loud about Imam Rauf's so-called rights to build his Shariah central wherever the heck he wants--but how dare somebody WRITE something you disagree with!

It's very common to try to figure out why people act as they do. Someone who takes on so much power over our lives--including power that is not constitutionally his--has no special right to be protected from scrutiny about his motives. One plausible explanation for his actions is that his obvious fondness for Islam runs very, very deep.

When a man lies about many things on a regular basis, it's foolish to take him at his word. Obama's actions have been consistently favorable to Islam, and consistently cool to Christianity.

Margie| 8.26.10 @ 8:43PM

Well said as usual, Radegunda!

Nate| 8.26.10 @ 9:00PM

Yes I HAVE read the 1st amendment and it says nothing about me not being able to say something with which you disagree!

You right wingers constantly talk about your great love of the Constitution but you don't seem to understand it or even to read it at all!

The One We've Been Waiting For| 8.26.10 @ 9:10PM

We're buying shrimp, Nate. Now you are talking my language. Try to confuse people that are smarter than you Nate. Sometimes it might work.

Radegunda| 8.26.10 @ 10:38PM

Where in the Constitution does it say it's "un-American" to "speculate" about what motivates a person with vast power over us? Or to speculate about anything we want?

It's leftists, not conservatives, who devised campus speech codes. It's leftists, not conservatives, who shout down and assault speakers they disagree with. It's leftists, not conservatives, who attempt to get people they disagree with off the air.

Its' Democrats, not conservatives, who actually say they don't care about the Constitution; who think it's a joke when someone asks where they get the Constitutional authority to do what they're doing to us; who assert that the Constitution allows them to do anything they want. It was a Democrat who decreed that people who carry around copies of the Constitution are suspect for being "extremists."

Brian| 8.26.10 @ 1:01PM

Yet another brilliant insightful column by Mr Neumayr.

Stan Redmond| 8.26.10 @ 1:09PM

Obama is neither Christian, Jew, or Muslim. He worships himself. But he definately prefers the power Islam grants over your fellow man.

Oldefarte| 8.26.10 @ 1:15PM

As the old saying goes, ACTIONS SPEAK LOUDER THAN WORDS; and his words procaliming his Christianity are far overshadowed by his actions as [now] president. As another old saying goes, HE IS WHAT HE IS........and that is a MUSLIM!!

Cuffs| 8.26.10 @ 1:29PM

If Obama doesn't know what he is, how should we?
He is pure fabrication-- no core, no humility
and worst of all no integrity or honor.
This is neither Muslim nor Christian. This is
Marxist (i.e. Communist).
We the people must restore the presidency.
We must be careful to fully vet the candidates
and NOT rely on the MSM. They share the same
lack of qualities as Obama.

Jack Kinch(1uncle)| 8.26.10 @ 1:33PM

For someone living so high on the hog, he seems, otherwise, to be very anti-American.
Consider his friends, his ignoring the constitution regarding illegal aliens and destructive spending, anyone would be a better president. No confidence. Nomobama.

Albert| 8.26.10 @ 1:50PM

I doubt seriously if President Bozo is a Christian or a Muslim, or even an amalgam of both (which is a functional nullity). Caius Julius Caesar, before he was Consul of Rome, was also the City-State's Pontifex Maximus, the chief Priest of the State pagan religion, a position he continued to hold for the rest of his life. It is widely believed in Historical circles that Caesar "totally disbelieved in religion" (so says Historian and author Michael Grant). Caesar did not see this as any hypocrisy. This was, after all, POLITICS! Politics trumps everything in Caeasr's view. Religion was a tool of politics, to be used as needed to acquire and keep power, something Caesar was very adept at doing, at least until Cassius and Brutus and the Ides of March. President Bozo appears to me to be of a similar vein. He makes vague claims about his "faith" and "personal beliefs" while trashing those of others. By appearing to be Muslim, he garners Muslim votes. By claiming to be Christian, he assuages Christain doubts about his loyalties. And it is an effective technique. It helped get him elected when anyone else of his background and experience would be laughed off the stage. And it helps keep his poll numbers in the low forties when anyone else of his performance and competence would be polling in the teens. President Bozo, like Caesar and countless politicians before him, is a pure political animal, and he uses religion for political advancement, and of course politics he uses for purly personal gain. President Bozo cares not a whit for anyone but himself. He uses people to gain a lavish lifestyle he did not earn, and power he is not competent to wield. He enjoys great admiration from throngs of sycophants and boobs, and once the damage is done, he retires and enjoys lifetime security, while millions of others suffer the economic calamities resulting from his administration.

George True| 8.26.10 @ 5:49PM

Albert: I believe you are closer to the mark than anyone else here today.

John II| 8.26.10 @ 6:39PM

Spot-on. So who needs a dictionary?

(The dictionary crack is an in-joke between Albert and me, George. Skip it.)

er| 8.26.10 @ 2:08PM

There are nominal Christians and there are genuine disciples of Jesus Christ. The Lord said we would know them by their fruit (Matthew 7:15-18. I think it is clear by the things Obama advocates, says and does, that he has not been genuinely converted to Christ. It is not surprising to me that the Rev. Chuck Currie's post is signed by T.D.Jakes (who by the way denies the Holy Trinity and preaches another gospel - the prosperity gospel; the Presbyterian Church USA which condones homosexuality and has even now allowed it in their so-called church and the mainline Episcopal Church which ordains homosexuals as pastors and allows female pastors. Space is limited here to describe the extent to which these people have wondered from the Truth of Biblical Christianity. It's no surprise, therefore, that they think Obamba is genuine - they're apostate themselves and need to repent. Soli Deo Gloria.

Betsy| 8.26.10 @ 10:48PM

AMEN! Couldn't have said it better myself.

Gill O’Teen ✝✡$| 8.26.10 @ 2:24PM

I don’t think the lord of flies is a muslim. The followers of that religion interpret the Second Commandment: “Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth. Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me; and shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments;” (Exodus 20:4-6) as prohibiting their depiction of that prophet in any manner whatsoever. This partially explains why they were so angry with the recent South Park cartoonists and the 2005 Danish Cartoon Controversy. As a firm follower of Narkissos, beavisbud has no problem with displaying his image everywhere, and he is quite practiced at bowing to mere mortals. If he were a follower of Muhammadanism, he would surely know that Allah is most displeased.

Gill O’Teen ✝✡$
Don’t Tread on Me.
gill.Oteen07041776@gmail.com
“Thou shalt not make thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the waters beneath the earth: Thou shalt not bow down thyself unto them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me, and shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me and keep my commandments.” (Deuteronomy 5: 8-10)
Only 878 days to go

John II| 8.26.10 @ 4:53PM

Not the SECOND Commandment, Gill. You're quoting a portion of the rather lengthy First Commandment, which subsumes the other nine.

The injunction against idol-worship is numero-uno on the hit parade of cosmic no-no's. Augustine makes an interesting point about the placement of the First Commandment. All sin, when you get right down to it, is a form of idol-worship: of directing one's worship away from God to some aspect of His creation.

Apparently we come into this world hard-wired to worship, and even if we don't worship God, we're bound to worship nonetheless. Some modern Christian thinkers have suggested that the characteristic idol of our era is the ego. Whatever. The point is that the placement of the First Commandment reflects the whole character and the unity of the Law, so we don't want to be calling it the Second Commandment, I reckon.

And now back to my savory summer viewing of "Mr. Deeds Goes to Town."

Gill O’Teen ✝✡$| 8.26.10 @ 9:07PM

John II, while I do envy your film library, I must point out that different religious traditions number THE TOP TEN somewhat differently. Wikipedia has a nifty table illustrating these differences just in case you wish to check before correcting others:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/T.....religions.
In the Jewish Tradition, “Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth;” is counted as the Second. However, Protestant denominations do use the same numbering as you; as do the Roman Catholics and the Eastern Orthodox Christians. The Jews include “Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me; and shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments;” with the previous passage to complete their second commandment while the Protestants and Eastern Orthodox enumerate it as their Second Commandment. The Church of Rome does combine both with Exodus 20: 2-3 to form their First Commandment. The Vatican Version continues through these verses always one count less than the others; for example, “Thou shalt not kill” is their Fifth Commandment but everyone else’s Sixth. The Pope probably approves of his flock dividing the “Thou shalt not covet” verses into two separate Commandments in order to achieve a ten count whereas all the others simply combine them into their Tenth Rule to Live By. I use the online King James Version provided by http://www.biblegateway.com/ in order to copy and paste what my stroke traumatized brain no longer accurately recalls. As you are no doubt aware, there are really more than 10 Commandments listed. By my count, using the New Jerusalem Bible my Mother gave me many, many years ago, about 17. Wiki says 14 or 15. The parsing of these into 10 seems to be more an editorial decision than a decree from The Highest Authority. For all you know, my ancestors wandered 40 years in the Wilderness, I do include a Star of David in my handle, after all, so my numbering is correct by the first editor’s decision. However, you agree, I assume, that how a person counts these Commandments is far less important than how he or she keeps them.
Gill O’Teen ✝✡$
Don’t Tread on Me.
gill.Oteen07041776@gmail.com
“All sects are different, because they come from men; morality is everywhere the same, because it comes from God.” - Voltaire
Only 878 days to go

John II| 8.26.10 @ 9:33PM

Whoa. Did Voltaire really say that? I mean, the second clause? If so, isn't that amazing? How on earth did the Enlightenment turn into . . . Professor Obama!? (Well, there's also the first clause, I suppose.)

Where was I? Oh yes. Trust not in the Wiki, Gill. It's extremely useful for quickies on, for example, the plot dynamics of a Shakespeare play, but it gets really flaky on more technical matters. Whenever I check something that I already know a lot about, I can spot the lacunae and the bias.

Anyhow, my point is just that the First has to be the First in order for the extensive commentary on its meaning by Jewish and (Catholic) Christian scholars to make any sense. Don't worship idols! The rest follows, regardless of numerical ordering beyond numero-uno.

Did Voltaire really say that? I mean, the second clause? My God, if so, one of the granddaddies of the Enlightenment must be spinning in his grave with the knowledge of what he hath wrought. Maybe that's hell.

Gives me the shivers to think about it.

Historyscoper | 8.26.10 @ 2:29PM

To get all the facts on Obama, his past, and his Muslim rabbit hole laid out with hyperlinks to check and go deeper, try the Historyscoper's free Obamascope at http://tinyurl.com/obamascope

Rhurt| 8.26.10 @ 2:58PM

These ideas are certainly interesting, but, there is simply too much info out there saying and showing by Obama's example-that Obama is a Muslim, supports the Muslim jehadists and Sharia, and verbally states that his allegiance is with Muslims. Words out of his mouth, actions from him and his staff, Muslim friends and advisors, and connections to the Saudis that go back for decades just out-cry all of the side-tracking. His admitting to the Egyptian ambassador that he is Muslim, his many actions of Obstruction of Justice-even to the evident point of getting Muslim Terrorists out of foreign jails and having them sent back to Libya, as well as
voicing his delight in Muslim prayer and his statement at the White House Ramadan dinner that, quote, "I will stand with the Muslims when the political winds get ugly". Also, his funding of various Muslim projects with tax payer funds are another one of the many infractions of US law. I believe Victor Mordecal and his wife Rachel-when she, because of her Israeli job of monitoring Saudi telecasts, stated that she heard the Saudis say that in 2008 they would have a Muslim in the White House-USA".

mogma| 8.26.10 @ 4:11PM

people who claim our president is a committed Christian clearly have a strange understanding of the word committed and a very vague understanding of the word Christian ...however neither can it be said he is a committed Muslim.
His only passion seems to be changing the USA from an independant, free, prosperous nation into a nation of Government dependant slaves.
to that end he seems to be fairly committed

Emma| 8.26.10 @ 4:14PM

All of this public angst on the part of the precedent's defenders keeps reminding of the tongue-in-cheek/conversation starter that Christians sometimes use with each other: "If you were on trial for being a Christian, would there be enough evidence to convict you?"

In his case, apparently not. Big time fail.

Charles Martel| 8.26.10 @ 4:50PM

In such courts as they envision, a confession, however derived, is always admissable.

+++

D-man| 8.26.10 @ 4:19PM

According to the Muslim faith, a child born to a Muslim is a Muslim.According to the Kuran a Muslim may lie,cheat steal,and use any infidel for their purpose(s).Guess who the infidels are?

Charles Martel| 8.26.10 @ 4:51PM

As in poker, look around the table: if you can't spot the infidel, it's you.

+++

JimmyMac| 8.26.10 @ 4:38PM

The Rev. Currie's letter is another reminder why the various mainstream Christian churches have lost millions of members since the Sixties. As a formerly active member and lay leader in what was once the largest denomination in the country, I found that the greatest enemies of the Faith were the clergy and others who should have been its greatest protectors and proponents.

Sadly, my church is now little more than a "Christian-themed" homosexual advocacy group.

Keep up the good work, Rev. Currie.

Rose| 8.26.10 @ 4:57PM

Obama has never convinced me he is a Christian or a patriot. Either should be obvious in the way he lives his life and conducts the affairs of state. It just isn't there. I felt he was an empty suit before the elections and if anything, I am more convinced now because his words and actions have confirmed it. He has contempt for us and I don't like that in a president.

Martin| 8.26.10 @ 5:02PM

The argument over whether Pres. Obama is a Christian or a Muslim believer continues ad nauseam without satisfactory resolution of the question.
But there is one question everyone can agree on with 100% certainty: Pres Barack Hussein Obama is definitely NOT a Jew or even a Zionist.

Spinnin' Outta Control| 8.26.10 @ 5:39PM

Cut to the chase, shed the fancy footwork, and just say it: Obama is a liar, and will say anything to get what he wants. Religion has nothing to do with it, except where lies about religion become his next assault on the truth to get what he wants.

A morality conceived in the bed of convenience.

Michele San Pietro| 8.26.10 @ 5:42PM

Obama represents self-destructive extremism: let's stop him before it is too late.

Nate| 8.26.10 @ 6:10PM

What a cesspool of bigotry, fear, and ignorance.

John II| 8.26.10 @ 6:50PM

Muttering about yourself again, Nate? That's not good for the soul. Just take a deep breath and think a happy thought.

TR| 8.26.10 @ 6:53PM

And, as an anti-american liberal, you are quite familiar with bigotry, fear and ignorance. It is displayed every time a liberal opens their mouth or writes a post.
Liberals are racists. They inject race into every subject, they seek it out.
Liberals are sexists. They see every issue as male vs. female.
Liberals are ignorant. They fail to see the utter destruction that marxism (liberalism) has left behind every place it is embraced.
Liberals, I believe, were dropped on their heads as babies, and stopped mentally developing at around age 8.
Oh, BTW Nate, you called Margie a fatass. You confirm your ignorance. You know nothing about her physique, and even if she is overweight, I thought liberals hold the patent on tolerance and compassion. You, sir, are an intolerant racist sexist jerk.

Michele San Pietro| 8.27.10 @ 5:41PM

I would add that liberals are mentally ill, and should urgently see a psychiatrist.

The One We've Been Waiting For| 8.26.10 @ 9:15PM

We are buying shrimp Nate. We are not supposed to mention Democrats or words that make people think of Democrats. You are irritating me again. You know what happened to Grandma the typical white person.

Rev. Chuck Currie | 8.26.10 @ 6:27PM

Racism, Blind Hatred Alive At The American Spectator

http://chuckcurrie.blogs.com/c.....ator-.html

Thom| 8.26.10 @ 6:46PM

Well Rev. Currie, when you can't get your way you play the "race" card on your way out the door. Say Hi to Rev. Wright when you see him again. As for Blind Hatred, well perhaps you should revisit that commandment on "Thou Shalt not bear false witness" again. You and your kind will clearly bear any witness to gain your place in Heaven on this earth.

John II| 8.26.10 @ 6:52PM

Give the Reverend the benefit of the doubt, Thom. Perhaps he's referring to his own posts at The American Spectator.

Thom| 8.26.10 @ 7:16PM

Perhaps but his MO is so familiar....and so predictable.

TR| 8.26.10 @ 6:56PM

Alive and propogated by the likes of you, Rev.
Go back to the "Rev." Wright and get a new fillup of racism, hatred and intolerance just in case you start getting low.

RCV| 8.26.10 @ 7:15PM

Excellent piece, Rev. Currie. The venom and hatred on this site takes my breath away. It's only when I get back to the real world do I realize how out of touch most of these folks are. God bless you!

John II| 8.26.10 @ 8:19PM

Excellent comment, Ricky. And I'm happy to learn that my venom and hatred take your breath away and that, as well, the Reverend Chuck has proven to be a kindred spirit to you.

You know, those of us who are venomous have a certain moral obligation to share our poison with those of you who are smug, and I am charmed to see once again that you come regularly to this venomous and hate-filled site for the necessary anodyne without which you might become an insufferable ass rather than merely an ass.

I pass on now, back to Laurel and Hardy in "The Bohemian Girl."

chester arthur| 8.26.10 @ 11:13PM

RCV,if the 'venom and hatred' of those who dare to disagree with the free-thinkers-in-lockstep takes your breath away,you should re-read their postings many times.Sooner or later,it won't trouble you any more.

Michele San Pietro| 8.30.10 @ 5:58PM

Liberals, not conservatives, are completely out of touch with reality.

Radegunda| 8.26.10 @ 8:11PM

How is it "racist" to dislike the destructive actions of one particular person who happens to be half black? I don't like the fact that Obama has put so many black Americans out of work as well as white!

How is it "blind hatred" to criticize the ACTIONS of someone who is ruining our future?

The fact that you chose to play the race card completely discredits your case. Completely and utterly.

Radegunda| 8.26.10 @ 8:23PM

Do you mean racist as in "White folks' greed runs a world in need"? (while lots of white folks are doing charitable work all around the world).

Or, racist as in "now you're gonna be ruled by the black man, cracka"? (I know people who saw black coworkers suddenly turn unfriendly right after the election that was supposed to bring racial healing.)

From the moment Obama stepped onto the political stage, we've been told ad nauseam that any criticism of him as raaacist. Heck, we were told that criticism of Nancy Pelosi is raaaacist.

It's really a silly game, Rev. Chuck. We're judging specific people on their specific actions. Skin color doesn't buy a pass.

Betsy| 8.26.10 @ 10:54PM

Checked out your blog. Find it interesting you left out any scripture reference or honest opposition to your initial letter. It appears to me you're LOOKING for hatred???
People can disagree and not be "filled with hatred".

Brian| 8.28.10 @ 7:43PM

Good grief Chuck!! you still here?

Another pot calling the kettle white.

You of all people should know that Racism and Blind Hatred, is indeed alive (you didn't say "and well") at the American Spectator.
With you being one of the major contributors it's only fair that we all stand (join me folks) and applaud your tenacity in stoking the flames of vitriol with your combustible piety and infallible intolerance.
Now of course we realize that tomorrow is your big day and you will be busy keeping your eye on the collection basket but listen, don't forget us, and hurry back from church. Sunday won't be the same without you. We humbly await further sermonizing.

EJK| 8.30.10 @ 3:20PM

There is a trend here,
libs stating, with abundant sanctimony, it's unamerican, or unchristian, to label people, question their faith, blah blah blah...
Then on comes the Rev and says were all racists and haters...Geez Rev, try to be more coy with your hypocrisy.

BTW Obama is HALF WHITE! Raised by white people because his Muslim black father abandoned him. Your the undeniable racists REV.

Peter| 8.31.10 @ 10:14AM

How convenient it is to demonize those who oppose your views with the epithet of "hatred". The hatred of evil, by the way, is a Biblical value conveniently overlooked by the can't-we-all-just-get-along crowd (Amos 5:15; Prov. 8:13 and many other references).

FeralCat| 8.26.10 @ 6:55PM

To "paraphrase" Friedrich Nietzsche: If Obama gazed long into the Islamic abyss, the Islamic abyss will have gazed back into him.

Thom| 8.26.10 @ 7:54PM

Something the Rev. Currie and his ink can relate to from their teachings at the school of Marx.

The Ten Commandments according to Karl Marx, the head of the leftist “Christian church”.
1) Thou shall not tell the truth unless if furthers the interest of the “state”.
2) Thou shall bear false witness any time it furthers the interest of the “state”.
3) Thou shall lie any time it furthers the interest of the “state”.
4) Thou shall obey the “state” not your parents when in conflict.
5) Thou shall kill the unborn when it furthers the interest of the “state”.
6) Thou shall cheat when it furthers the interest of the “state”.
7) Thou shall not reveal your true intentions unless it furthers the interest of the “state”.
8) Thou shall steal from the “rich” at the point of a gun and give to the “poor” in exchange for their support.
9) Thou shall worship only the “state” in private but any graven image in public that gets you support.
10) Thou shall disrespect all traditional values and institutions at every turn while publically proclaiming support for them in public.
11) When in doubt, play the “race”, “class warfare”, “identity politics” tactics to keep the masses aligned against each other rather than focused on you.
12) Above all else, lie and never stop lying.

Nancy| 8.26.10 @ 8:42PM

You said it all! I was typing my comment and didn't see yours.

The really frightening thing is that there have been too many Marxist clergy, teachers, professors, journalists, and community organizers doing their mischief and indoctrinating too many people for too long into their politics.

Thom| 8.26.10 @ 9:41PM

As others have said in many different ways this is one of the reasons for the shrinking Christian faith and fellowship in the US and else where. If the Church shall not heal itself and purge itself of wolves in sheeps' clothing, this will end very badly somewhere down the road in time for this nation and that which makes it strong. We are rotting from the inside out.....

Nancy| 8.26.10 @ 8:38PM

This was the best article I have read so far on this topic. However, I'm suspicious of the clergy posting long comments here because I now know that there are too many members of the clergy in America who are promoting Marxism.

LibertyAtStake | 8.26.10 @ 8:39PM

Does Brennan look out of place, or what? It's like a "Where's Waldo" - only a lot easier. LOL!

http://libertyatstake.blogspot.com/
"Because the Only Good Progressive is a Failed Progressive"

rationaltruth| 8.26.10 @ 9:36PM

reverend chucky, i'll give you an IQ of 105 on cogentousity, and about 110 on religious philosophy. so you're not a total doofus, but you've badly missed the point here. your ungainly attempt at extrapolating your IQ to persude is laudable, but laughable. my own observation? i'm deeply suspicious of organisms, complex or simple, that refuse to defend themselves, whether it's for domain, philosophy, food, breeding, whatever. your religious 'cuckolding' is amusing, but embarrasing. btw, i'm not a christian, i'm a non practicing jew.

M. Btok| 8.26.10 @ 9:58PM

Mosque problem = http://www.gcnlive.com/wp/2010.....ooge/Story!
CFR member receives financial backing from who’s who of global corporate elite

Steve Watson
GCN Live.com
Friday, Aug 20th, 2010

The Imam of the now infamous “ground zero mosque” is a member of the ultra elitist Council On Foreign Relations and receives financial backing from powerful globalist sources including the Rockefellers, the Carnegie Corporation and the Ford Foundation.

This information provides a compelling backdrop to the theory that the move to establish the mosque is a deliberate attempt to further stoke religious tensions and divert attention away from the real enemy of free humanity, the corporate globalist elite who continue to profit from global war and division.

The proposed mosque, to be known as Cordoba House is the project of the Cordoba Initiative, an organisation founded by ‘Imam’ Feisal Abdul Rauf (pictured above), who, in addition to being a member of the World Economic Forum’s Council of 100, is an active member of the Council on Foreign Relations’ Religious Advisory Committee.

The Cordoba Initiative’s website cites “Christian support for the Cordoba House” in the form of Christian publication, “Sojourners”, which is owned by evangelical Christian writer and political activist Jim Wallis, also coincidentally a sitting member of the CFR’s Religious Advisory Committee.

The CFR, as regular readers know, is populated exclusively by major players with the biggest corporations, banks and defence contractors in the world – all of whom are making vast profits and securing more power from continued global conflict. The CFR also exerts far reaching influence over the U.S. government.

Tony Cartalucci at landdestroyer blog breaks down the fact that every single leading player in both the neocon infested Bush administration and the “change” gang under Barrack Obama is a CFR luminary. Cartalucci also provides further stunning research relating to Cordoba House and its CFR Imam, which breaks down as follows.

Feisal Abdul Rauf also heads up the American Society for Muslim Advancement (ASMA) which enjoys a partnership with the Cordoba Initiative and provided $100 million to secure the site close to ground zero for the mosque to be built.

That $100 million came directly from the back pockets of ASMA’s financial backers.

According to ASMA’s website they include the Carnegie Corporation of New York, the Ford Foundation, Rockefeller Brothers, Rockefeller Philanthropy, and the Rockefeller Brothers Fund – essentially the tip of the pyramid of the international globalist elite.

This story is a perfect microcosm of the new world order agenda.

The mainstream media continues to push the mosque story hour after hour, day after day, from the perspective of both the left and the right, manufacturing a controversy that plays on a now indentured fear of Islam that has been cooked up over the last nine years via endless phony “muslim” terror plots and concocted “al qaeda” threats.

Real muslims are witnesses to a vicious backlash, stirred up and served from this corporate media cauldron, creating the impression they are under attack by non-muslims and forcing them to have to defend their religion, and the whole thing snowballs onwards.

The connections to 9/11 are clear, and also serve to enforce the mythical notion that 19 radical muslims controlled by some guys in a cave in Afghanistan were able to direct military precision attacks on America with devastating consequences.

Meanwhile behind all of this are the global elite, rubbing their hands in glee as a manufactured “clash of civilizations” unfolds and the whole of humanity lunges at each other’s throats.

Steve Watson is the London based writer and editor at Alex Jones’ Infowars.net, and regular contributor to Prisonplanet.com. He has a Masters Degree in International Relations from the School of Politics at The University of Nottingham in England.

« Those Advice Guys Join the GCN Radio NetworkTwo Films That Blew Bilderberg Wide Open »

Theo Goodwin| 8.26.10 @ 10:41PM

The Rev. Chuck Currie and many fellow travelers write:

"We understand that these are contentious times, but the personal faith of our leaders should not be up for public debate."

Would you explain yourselves, please? I understand that you are assured of his faith, but what has that to do with me? I have no evidence of the man's faith. I have overwhelming evidence that the man has no concept of Christianity, namely, the fact that he sat at the feet of Rev. Wright for twenty years. If you believe that Wright is a Christian, you are truly lacking in discernment. But why are you asking me not to debate the matter of Obama's beliefs? How else am I to learn?

LIVE FREE OR DIE II | 8.26.10 @ 10:42PM

Time for all good americans, whether democrat,libertarian, republican,heathen or otherwise, to stand up for our constitution, our fellow citizens, our flag, and our Fathers,Sons,Brothers,,,,,Mothers,Daughters,Sisters, who are puutting their lives on the line, to stand up as one, with our flag unfurled,,,,,taking our country back ,,, reminding the rest of the world just who we are again.
Semper Fi

EQV| 8.26.10 @ 10:52PM

Great article, Mr. Neumayr. You articulated what I've thought about The One for some time.

Now, about the "Rev" Currie - from the Church of the Almighty Soros - on a whim I googled his name & George Soros. What an interesting list of articles. Wonder how much of the "Rev"'s salary comes from His Eminence Soros.

Apparently the "Rev" has so much time on his hands that he visits many sites & blogs in order to dump references to his Leftist Atheist propaganda blog. I guess there just aren't many poor & needy people in Portland, Oregon, where the good "Rev" resides.

It's certainly not gone unnoticed that "Rev" never once engaged any of the serious commenters here. He obviously had a deficient education in theology and apologetics, and must feel rather insecure.

Instead, he feels compelled to hurl "hater" - the new "racist" charge. Poor blind "Rev" Currie. I pray that God will have mercy on his soul, and will peel away the layers of conceit and disdain he exhibits for those he labels as "haters".

DaveS| 8.26.10 @ 10:56PM

Most writers here confuse faith with inclination. But, insofar as belief is concerned, can we not all agree he believes in two things: 1) his own superiority and, and 2) a heavy vacation schedule.

TRC | 8.26.10 @ 11:36PM

Why do we even give the tiniest amount of oxygen to this most flammable of conversations?

Why should we care what religion President Obama or anyone else for that matter practices?

How does one even go about trying to prove someone follows a particular religion anyway?

Church-time?
Minutes spent in prayer in public at an eating table?
[Insert Sacred Text] special study attendance on a weeknight?

And does someone who goes to Church, prays before every meal in public with a bowed head, and is front and center at the [insert sacred text] class, constitute a full fledged practicing [insert religionist]?

Stevia| 8.26.10 @ 11:50PM

I use to respect T.D. Jakes. He and his colleagues have lost all my respect. God calls us to discern. It is called wisdom. For heaven sakes don't close your eyes!

Long Ben| 8.27.10 @ 12:33AM

TD Jakes can sure preach , and thats the truth . However , he is still a man and therefore liable to delusion , and in the case of OBAMA! strong delusion . Many if not all of OBAMAS' ! policies are palpably EVIL and so it is irrefutable that he is not behaving as a Christian ought to. Lord help us all .

Yosemeti Sam| 8.27.10 @ 12:47AM

Folks, you got to believe - what else would BHO have been doing in Wrights church for 20 years except to inculcate Christianity principles.

I too - take BHO at his baby-ass-kicking word.

dw| 8.27.10 @ 1:48AM

The genesis of obama's actions, while curious, are not as critical as the calamitous results of his rule. His communist disposition is obvious when forensic analysis of his background is considered and we see his policies inacted and his sociopathic personality is disernible when we see the way he has dictated and lied to institute those policies.
Whether he be muslim or christian is irrelavent to the fact that he is ruining our country with a foriegn born philosophy.

Qwilly| 8.27.10 @ 8:22AM

By their fruits, you shall know them....

RCV| 8.27.10 @ 12:59PM

And this week we've seen the "fruits" of the campaign of hatred spawned by TAS and similar sites: an innocent hard-working NYC cabdriver slashed in an anti-Muslim knife attack; mosques desecrated, one in Long Island by a man pissing on prayers rugs during services. Absolutely disgraceful.

Donovan | 8.27.10 @ 11:06AM

This is why it is so important for us to truly understand radical Islam and Sharia law to know what the Western world is up against. For a very interesting take on the radical ideas of the sponsors of the Ground Zero Mosque, I recommend people go to http://americasculturalstudies.....o-mosque/. Your eyes will be opened.

Charles Stevens| 8.27.10 @ 3:47PM

Social justice, where God is made subservient to the almighty State, because the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the one. Your name is Legion, for you are many.

William| 8.27.10 @ 5:39PM

Amazing article. Well Done.

WAKE UP| 8.28.10 @ 12:28AM

Am I going to be the only one NOT surprised when Obama finally comes out and declares he's Muslim? Look at this track record: Loves the muezzin. Sends Churchill’s bust back. Takes a trip to Cairo to shoot America down, with Rauf writing the script. Bows to Saudis. Pro-mosque comments at a Ramadan dinner. This guy has been sending you signals from day one.

Derf| 8.28.10 @ 9:19AM

Certainly President obama's actions speaks for itself. His actions do indicate that he is any body but a Christian. I do not judge him out on the surface, yet every indication tells us that he was with a Chrictian group, and now he's is not.

Certainly he does not attend a Christian service regularly, he never visited a moderate Christian state, never visited Israel, above all his ME advisers are Muslim radicals, 3 head covered women and 3 Muslim radical men.

Talks like a duck and sweeks like a duck, she's is a duc.

Paroikew| 8.28.10 @ 1:19PM

Free gift, your words ostensibly reasonable have exposed your suppressed hatred for this Country. Why is it that you remind me of Obama, could it be your contempt for America, or is it the elitist arrogance you both have that compels you to lecture us?

Cultural relativism my Big butt! The truth is your words have given you away, "colonialist power such as Israel," "whenever we Arabs try to get arms to defend ourselves against one of the strongest armies in the world" Guns, religion and Israel, these are the words you choose to make your case, but these are not your problem, they are only a symptom of your problem. God could bring down any army or nation with a microscopic bug.

America doesn't hate Arabs, but we do smell a rat, let me explain. What do the vast majority of people in the continent of Europe have in common? Well, their socialist, and they all have really bad teeth. These two seem innocuous but juxtapose and the metaphor will become obvious. The reason Islam will never take hold here in America is because freedom is ingrained in our spirit. The people that started this country took a different fork, they wanted freedom! And the cost of this freedom was so high it developed into us a kernel that programs our way of thinking, and separates us from most of the World. We fix our kid's teeth, and we will never accept a rigid cruel religion That is Islam.

A fundamental code inside this freedom kernel is, we believe Israel is the apple of God's eye, not the god that Islam professes, but the true king and sustainer of this universe, Jesus Christ. This is blaspheme to Islam. it's very important to understand the distinction here, our decision (prior to Obama) to defend Israel is devil worship to Islam. This next statement is going to be hard to hear but it needs to be said, allah is a figment of the Islam religion. There are many more then just one contradiction between the God of the Old Testament and the god of the koran, which eliminates the possibility these two God's are the same Entity. Period.

There is a very significant difference between Islam and Judaism/Christianity which when pointed to is very reviling. This is the first direct foreshadowing of the future atoning sacrifice and resurrection in the old testament. God wanted to test Abraham telling him to kill his son. Now as the story has it, there were two sons, one born through disbelief the other born through faith. The Old Testament says God told Abraham to kill the son born through faith, but the koran says God told Abraham to kill the son born through disbelief. I'm referring to the foreshadowing of God sacrificing himself to buy back his creation, the finishing act of creation it's self! If your religion messes with that, then you have taken a different fork, this fork would not lead to your freedom but to the religion Islam is today, and in so doing, you have cooked your own goose.

wayne| 8.28.10 @ 8:36PM

Obama is NOT a Muslim. He is something far worse.

Obama is a member of the Weather Underground.

Obama is a NeoMarx Terrorist ...

EVERY ENEMY OF AMERICA - ESPECIALLY WHITE MIDDLE CLASS CHRISTIAN AMERICA - IS HIS FRIEND.

Obama is a friend to Islamists - he gives them as much aid as he can and hinders any efforts to slow their rise to power.

Obama is a friend to African Nationalists - he fronts for the recreation of a Black Panther/ACORN army to rule the cities.

Obama is a friend of Iran - he has moved heaven and earth to help them prepare for destroying Israel and to sabotage any effort by anyone (including Iran's own people) to overthrow the Mullah's.

Obama is a friend of the ReConquista to return the Southwest to Mexico - he has done everything but offered illegal immigrants chauffeured Limos across the borders and to the voting booths.

Obama is a friend of the Bolivarian Chavista's - he not only helps Chavez and company to spread throughout Central and South America, he is moving to turn American energy and transportation needs over to a Hybrid-car-Lithium-battery-based transportation system - bringing us into economic submission to the Bolivian monopoly on 80% of the world's Lithium and a far greater control over our politics than ever the Saudi's had.

Obama has as much as gotten on his knees and begged Putin to recreate Stalinist Russia - for all to worship the return of the GREAT MARXIST STATE.

When Obama is done THERE WILL BE NO AMERICA.

There will be no freedom, no hope, only one great Plantation from Sea to Shining Sea.

And the white, Middle-Class, Christian part of this land - the ones whose vision, faith, and ideals were the Foundation that BUILT this country, for all it's faults ....

...will have been "ethnically cleansed" down to a fading and enslaved remnant in some miserable corner of what is left of it.

The only God Obama worships is his own hatred of America...

Ryan| 8.30.10 @ 4:06PM

Really?

With what manpower?

bernardos| 8.30.10 @ 11:11AM

It is tempting to view the furor over Obama as Moslem with its nutty claims from assorted Christian crackpots, its simultaneously snotty and panicky reactions from Obama’s cheerleaders in the traditional media, its rather dissonant assurances from the White House that that old time religion is good enough for him, and other goofiness as just another minor summer silly season dust up.
However that would be wrong, because the fact that somewhere between a sixth and a quarter of the people do not even believe what this man says about what religion he professes is symptomatic of something real and important. People sense, and rightly, that we have a man here who is not what he seems or pretends to be, but is rather a phony and a dangerous one. That is the real significance of all this.

Peter| 8.31.10 @ 10:20AM

Well said. Thanks.

matthew | 9.2.10 @ 9:27AM

“No one can serve two masters…You cannot serve both God and money.” –Matthew 6:24

“A man who has riches without understanding is like the beasts that perish.” –Psalm 49:12-14; 20

“ Now listen, you rich people, weep and wail because of the misery that is coming upon you….You have lived on earth in luxury and self-indulgence. You have fattened yourselves in the day of slaughter.” [James 5:1,2,5]

“Are they [the rich] not the ones who are slandering the noble name of Him to whom you belong?” [James 2:7]

“Listen, my dear brothers: Has not God chosen those who are poor in the eyes of the world to be rich in faith and to inherit the kingdom he promised those who love Him?” [James 2:5]

" February 22, 2008

On February 4, the Bush administration released its budget request for Fiscal Year 2009, which begins on October 1, 2008. For FY 2009, the White House is seeking $711 billion for the military -- $541 billion for the Pentagon and the nuclear weapons-related activities of the Department of Energy, and, according to Secretary of Defense Robert Gates, at least $170 billion for ongoing military operations in Iraq and Afghanistan.

The United States is far and away the global leader in military spending. Consider the following:

The United States spends more than the next 45 highest spending countries in the world combined.
The United States accounts for 48 percent of the world's total military spending.
The United States spends on its military 5.8 times more than China, 10.2 times more than Russia, and 98.6 times more than Iran.
The United States and its strongest allies (the NATO countries, Japan, South Korea and Australia) spend $1.1 trillion on their militaries combined, representing 72 percent of the world's total. "

"At least 919,967 people have
been killed in Afghanistan and Iraq
since the U.S. and coalition attacks, based on lowest credible estimates."

american is an evil greedy empire feeding it's fat evil greedy population who is mad at a president who is just as evil and greedy but doesn't admit it.

1389AD | 9.4.10 @ 3:19PM

Don't try to tell me Obama is not a Muslim!

Allen Johnson| 9.5.10 @ 10:51PM

Thank you, Chuck Currie and fellow signatories, for rebutting George Neumayr's libel. Neumayr should be glad that Barack Obama is an elected public official, so to not expose himself to a lawsuit.

Most sad to me are those who so self-righteously purport to judge Obama as not a Christian, according to their own standards of what it means to follow Jesus as a disciple. I shudder at their definition of what it means to follow Jesus. If it means an ideology similar to that of the American Spectator, well... Well, all I can say is that maybe I am looking at a different Jesus than most of those who are convinced Obama is a Muslim.

---Allen Johnson
Dunmore, West Virginia USA

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