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The Right Prescription
Death Panel Siding
Suddenly, end of life care is back in vogue among Obamacare givers.
Need to shut down comparative effectiveness now.
Suddenly end of life care is back in vogue.
Here’s the New York Times explaining why:
In a study that sheds new light on the effects of end-of-life care, doctors have found that patients with terminal lung cancer who began receiving palliative care immediately upon diagnosis not only were happier, more mobile and in less pain as the end neared — but they also lived nearly three months longer.
The findings, published online Wednesday by The New England Journal of Medicine, confirmed what palliative care specialists had long suspected. The study also, experts said, cast doubt on the decision to strike end-of-life provisions from the health care overhaul passed last year.
“It shows that palliative care is the opposite of all that rhetoric about ‘death panels,’ ” said Dr. Diane E. Meier, director of the Center to Advance Palliative Care at Mount Sinai School of Medicine and co-author of an editorial in the journal accompanying the study. “It’s not about killing Granny; it’s about keeping Granny alive as long as possible — with the best quality of life.”
Here’s what the study found and what the New York Times conveniently ignores: People with end stage lung cancer who were given palliative care at diagnosis — and simultaneously with standard cancer care —
had a significantly better quality of life and significantly lower rates of depression than those who received only standard care.
They also lived longer — median survival for patients in the simultaneous-care group was 11.6 months and in the standard-care group was 8.9 months (P = .02). This survival benefit of 2.7 months is similar to that achieved with standard chemotherapy regimens.
The New York Times skews the study to make it seem that palliative care was used instead of actual treatment of the disease and that it was therefore wrong to eliminate end of life counseling from Obamacare by calling it a death panel.
In fact, end of life counseling in the original version of Obamacare was not about “keeping Granny alive longer.”
Section 1233 of the health-care bill drafted would have paid doctors to give Medicare patients end-of-life counseling “every five years — or sooner if the patient gets a terminal diagnosis.”
And the counseling was to include advanced care planning, including key questions and considerations, important steps, and suggested people to talk to about “living wills and durable powers of attorney, and their uses …a list of national and State-specific resources to assist consumers and their families.” Not a word about living longer. To suggest now that’s what Democrats meant is absurd: If spending more money to let Granny live longer after a terminal diagnosis was the goal, why keep reminding people every five years about “living wills”?
Because it’s a way of telling seniors as they get older that living longer is not very valuable. Here’s Victor Fuchs, an Obamacare advocate, economist, and long-time consultant to Donald Berwick and Obama’s health policy adviser Ezekiel Emanuel, on technologies that extend life:
..further gains in life expectancy will mostly mean keeping more Americans alive while they are retired and dependent on indirect transfers of funds from younger workers for much of their living expenses, health care, and social services.
About the Author
Robert M. Goldberg is vice president of the Center for Medicine in the Public Interest and founder of Hands Off My H ealth, a grass roots health care empowerment network. His is new book, Tabloid Medicine: How the Internet is Being Used To Hijack Medical Science For Fear and Profit, was published last month by Kaplan.
Letter to the Editor View all comments (64) | Leave a comment
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Ken (Old Texican)| 8.25.10 @ 6:41AM
Mr. Goldberg,
Isn't it interesting that the long article you posted here was summed up over a year ago by the "dummie" Sarah Palin in two words. "Death Panels".
Boy, I hope the lady runs!
Miss Alabama| 8.25.10 @ 9:38AM
Death panels? I am all for them! Bring them on.
It's high time for the American public to face the fact that there comes a time when they must die, a time when they should die.
Our nursing homes have far too many patients in vegetative states being fed through tubes inserted into their stomachs. I say remove the tubes now.
Nursing homes receiving Medicaid patient monies are making a bundle off these vegetative patients.
Keeping these patients alive is a foolish waste of money, and these heroic (read idiotic) efforts to prolong death (death, not life) are bankrupting our health care system.
I am also a supporter of euthanasia. I have told my doctor that I support physician-assisted suicide, and if I am dying from a painful, incurable, terminal condition, I want him to give me an overdose of morphine.
Do you readers of AmSpec disapprove of living wills? I imagine some of you do. I can't imagine why, but I'm sure you could justify your twisted opposition somehow.
Far too many doctors are extending the dying process of terminal patients who have no quality of life. The patients are terminal and in pain, yet doctors are doing all they can to prolong their dying, their suffering.
It's time we have serious, civil discussions about end-of-life issues. Civil discussions without hysteria.
I'm reminded of the old joke about Christian fundamentalists: They all want to go to heaven, but none of them want to die.
And it's mainly these fundamentalists who are putting up such a fight against Obama's health care plans. Of course, this is just another ploy to oppose a president who they perceive as left-wing.
One last thought about end-of-life considerations: I have seen too many loved ones die horribly painful deaths. This is why I say euthanasia is a cardinal act of mercy!
If only Obama's health care plans included physician assisted suicide. What a relief that would be to me and to many others.
Let's start the discussions . . . and let's all try to be civil.
Ken (Old Texican)| 8.25.10 @ 10:19AM
Okay, Miss,
I'll start...and finish the "discussion".
Apparently, from your post above, your quality of life...and outlook...genuinely sucks.
Do the right thing. It has been nice knowing you.
Say hi to God for me.
Sue| 8.25.10 @ 10:44AM
No, Ken. You got it wrong. You left the decision in "his hands." He wants the decision for everyone to not be in "their" hands. It the same old song and dance from Marxists/Socialists/Bolsheviks/Nazis/etc. - They play God when they decide.
Ken (Old Texican)| 8.25.10 @ 11:25AM
Sue, heh,
I was being slightly facetious...ironic if you will.
I simply believe that the patient and Doctor should make the decisions. I do have a living will. It has a DNR included in it should I lose my mind, or go into a termianally ill coma.
I have held some peoples' hand while they died. Most people have not had that "opportunity and honor". It is fascinating to me personally witnessing that "Brief moment...or time" of absolute clarity before they expired....no matter the pain...no matter the drug load.
Truly, I considered it an honor to be asked to hold their hand while they died.
I will say this. I would much rather hold the hand of a Christian, or a Worshipful Jew in that circumstance. It is amazing to me to have seen the big last smile in so many cases.
Ray| 8.25.10 @ 12:08PM
Hey vile old man,
My mom had that smile when she died. Another person there said that she was also turning her head very slightly and noding as if she were greeting people. Have you ever seen that?
I, too like David J enjoy your vile comments. Do you have a website?
Ken (Old Texican)| 8.25.10 @ 12:33PM
Ray,
Get ready to deal with the chills down your arms!
The night my dad died...(asbestos lung cancer)...he woke up, blinked and I shall quote him the best I can recall:
"Son, I just had a heck of a dream. I was walking across a sort of moonscape heading toward what sorta' appeared to be a football stadium with lights lighting up the sky...and everyone was cheering their lungs out. I walked around a big rock...and there was this little rock. I'll be damned ...Papa, (His name for his Dad)...Papa was sitting there on that rock cutting off a piece of chewing tobacco like I had seen him do a million times...
..."Hi Ivy (my dad's name), Ready to go to the game?"
(My dad...desperately in pain, and drugged to the gills, then said:
"What do you think of that, Son?"
I got a glimpse and replied: " Well heck, Dad, who would you rather welcome you home?"
...He lit up in a big-ole grin...and died.
David J.| 8.25.10 @ 10:53AM
Old Texican,
I've been reading your posts for a long time, but I have never responded until today.
You're a vile old man, and from reading your posts, I infer that your hatred of our president stems from the fact that he is not a white man.
You'll deny this, of course. You right wingers always deny the obvious.
Ken (Old Texican)| 8.25.10 @ 11:40AM
David J.
I'm sorry you feel that way. I do hope you will peek at my reply to Sue above.
I must tell you, that I got a chuckle reading your post.
Heh, While speaking in not one but three Baptist churches in the late 60s...I was thrown out for speaking on the "Good Samaritan". I simply plugged in 'Negro"...every time the "Samaritan" was mentioned...and read the story.
One fine upstanding deacon told me if I did not mend my thinking...horror of horrors...my children might wind up married to a Negro.
Well, my son did in fact marry a Negro. A lovely lady...and one of the best decisions of his life.
...just a FYI with a grin.
I hate evil. I believe our President is inflicting evil on our country. My daughter-in-law agrees.
Kukee American| 8.25.10 @ 1:46PM
Ken,
Here, here! Your responses prove that you are a concerned God-fearing man and not vile. The personal attacks are a proof that seeing they do not see and reading they do not understand; blinded because of their very hatred of God and love of the world. Followers of Christ are blind to the world and worldly values like race, color, and standing (economic or social). We walk by faith and not by sight. This very troubled soul David J apparently feels threatened and apparently has self-esteem issues (that worldly stuff). You however, have shown humility in wisdom which comes from above.
Thanks for letting me comment.
Humphrey Dumfries| 8.25.10 @ 1:49PM
Keep 'em comin', Ken!
Occam's Tool| 8.25.10 @ 5:10PM
Yeah, Ken, I know what you mean---I'm vehemently for strong border control---both of my (properly legally adopted US Citzen) children are Guatemalan Mayan Indians.
Blows the Liberals teensy leetle minds, don't it?
Stan Redmond| 8.26.10 @ 3:19AM
Really, you Obamatons need to come with a new insult. There's only so many times you can call me a racist until I start rolling around the floor laughing a lung up. Is that the best you can do? Here's some suggestions.
We hate Obama because he's a good Christian
We hate Obama because he's a southpaw
We hate Obama because he likes Arugula
We hate Obama because he plays basketball
You get the picture. Now start throwing new unfounded attacks our way. Racist just doesn't mean anything anymore. Besudes, he's just as white as he is black.
Mayte| 8.29.10 @ 3:11PM
Really? I'm a hispanic woman who thinks Obama is a vile old man (he is older than me). He is vile to the core, as he hates this country and its founding principles. I can name you many others who are black conservatives who think in a similar way: Star Parker, David Brooks, Tim Scott, Cedra Crenshaw. I look at people for their ideas, and after having experienced communism in the flesh I can tell you that Obama's ideas are very close to that very vile and evil philosophy.
Toto| 8.25.10 @ 4:51PM
Miss Alabama asks for "a civil discussion without hysteria," and the responses to her reasoned, intelligent views are (no surprise here) hysterical and vitriolic.
I don't think I will ever read open-minded posts on AmSpec's comment threads. The tone from so many commenters is so ugly-- monty.crisco, for example, has to use the F word, plus other vulgarities to express his anger. Typical.
However, I must say that there are intelligent fiscal conservatives who read AmSpec, and we will not be silenced by right-wing, fundamentalist bullies.
Contrary to popular opinion, there is no confederacy of conservatives who always tow the right-wing position on ALL issues. No sir! Some of us are capable of critical thinking when it comes to social issues, and Miss Alabama is one of us.
Occam's Tool| 8.25.10 @ 5:14PM
As a former nursing home psychiatrist, let me tell you that the problem with our old folks was usually NOT getting the families to hold off on futile, heroic care; it was getting them to endorse conservative life saving care like evaluation and treatment of depression in patients who were not eating. Funny thing, Miss Alabama, my experience as a nursing home doc was IN Alabama.
Most geriatricians don't recommend gatric feeding tubes in demented folks who aren't eating---it replaces a death by painless malnutrition with one by painful strangulation (aspiration pneumonia).
Mark| 8.25.10 @ 5:25PM
People who claim that their opinions come only from clear, critical thinking amuse me to no end. I guess the rest of us come to our views by drooling on our bibs.
Guess what, my friend. There will always be people who can think more clearly than you or me. And horrors of horrors! They may even disagree with me... or even your arrogant self!
BD57| 8.25.10 @ 10:27PM
Patting yourself on the back for your open-mindedness while hurling invective at others is hardly evidence of "civil discussion without hysteria."
The whole idea of government deciding when someone has "lived long enough" is repulsive.
stmichrick| 8.25.10 @ 10:32AM
Nursing homes making 'bundles?' Someone should tell them.
Mayte| 8.29.10 @ 3:15PM
There is a limit of what Medicaid or Medicare pays to anyone, including nursing homes. Once that limit is passed, it is the family who pays or many times no one and the institution has to "suck it up" and move on. I do support living wills. BUT would not encourage or support anyone to die "mercifully" at the hand of a physician (I'm a physician). The living will's purpose is so that the INDIVIDUAL may decide how his last days will be.
Petronius| 8.25.10 @ 11:30AM
Desire that the state sanction execution of innocent people is civil? Sarte said, "Hell is other people."
Doubtless Miss A is one of his fans.
monty.crisco| 8.25.10 @ 1:49PM
I agree totally, Miss A! As you say:
I am also a supporter of euthanasia. I have told my doctor that I support physician-assisted suicide, and if I am dying from a painful, incurable, terminal condition, I want him to give me an overdose of morphine.
And I say - what are you waiting for?!?! You DO suffer from a "painful, incurable" condition (it is painful as fuck for me to read your posts, and you are incurably stupid - that is, you are a jackass liberal). So head out to the hospital and DO US ALL A FAVOR. Forfeit your estate to the government and become the ultimate useful idiot for the dems....
joli| 8.26.10 @ 12:30AM
Doooood... This site has two appeals for me: One is the insight I receive from reading the articles and comments from people much smarter and wiser than I; and the other is that very few people use profanity or name-calling to get their point across. Please don't spoil it for me!
cowpattie| 8.25.10 @ 8:02PM
Miss Alabama, you are a wimp! Give you an overdose of morphine. You are a coward! Grow a pair and take a handful of potassium. Do it now! "What a relief that would be to me and to many others."
Stan redmond| 8.26.10 @ 3:22AM
You are quite generous with your wisdom deciding who shall live and who shall die.
KyMouse| 8.26.10 @ 10:55AM
The right to die becomes the duty to die.
We've already seen a similar "duty" concerning abortion -- more than 6 out of 10 abortions are not the mother's choice, but the choice of the baby's father, the mother's parents, or others. Time and again, murder is listed as the leading cause of death for pregnant mothers. The right to abort becomes the duty to abort. The right to die becomes the duty to die.
The Daily Telegraph recently reported that "almost half of deaths by euthanasia in Belgium have involved patients who have not explicitly requested [it]...A fifth of nurses interviewed by researchers admitted that they had been involved in the euthanasia of a patient based on the 'assumption' that they would want to die. Nearly half of the nurses -- 120 of 248 -- admitted that they had taken part in 'terminations without request or consent'...Euthanasia has been legal in Belgium since 2002 [and] accounts for 2 percent of all deaths annually...the rules are routinely flouted..."
People who want their relatives euthanized don't always do so because they want to relieve suffering. They may do it to gain the patient's estate. Morgues have no shortage of corpses whose relatives wanted them to die for one reason or another. Euthanasia makes it much easier to get tiresome old or sick relatives out of the way.
Living Wills give hospitals permission to provide as little care as possible; a good alternative is the Will To Live, which is available at www.nrlc.org.
One thing to keep in mind is that legal definitions of words such as "terminal" and "irreversible" can change as legislators come and go in office. What is considered "extraordinary treatment" may be different the next time a legislature considers it.
None of us knows how we will react to reduced circumstances until we get there. I had a relative who was a heavy smoker; she always said that she just wanted to keep smoking and then die with the time came. As she lay dying of lung cancer, she learned that her first grandchild was on the way. Although she had thought she was ready to die, she suddenly found herself desperately wanting to see that grandbaby. She died three weeks before the baby was born.
Don L| 8.26.10 @ 6:47PM
"I am also a supporter of euthanasia." I think you also just admitted to demanding someone else's tubes be pulled at your insistence. The word is not euthanasia, it's murder, but being like the 1930's Nazies to their own old hardly catches up with the culture of death mindset you exhibit on those 50 million unborn live snuffed out by that thinking.
It's too bad that we have lost even a slight sense of what it means to be a human being, having dignity and worth - being unique and precious. Like the unborn you aparently see us as so much inconvenient tissue.
Allard Anatole| 8.25.10 @ 12:40PM
Miss Alabama's attitudes toward death are quite healthy and persuasive, in my opinion.
Since I am in my early 70's, end of life issues have taken on a personal aspect.
Being an Agnostic, I do not fear death or being dead. However, I have considerable fear of the process of dying, which for some people in North America is an agonizingly painful and lengthy process.
Fortunately for me, I live in Canada which -- like all other developed countries other than the U.S. -- has universal health care. Unfortunately, however, pain management is often as poorly managed in Canada as it is in the U.S. I regard physician-assisted suicide as a civil right and would prefer that I have access to a means of suicide if life becomes unbearable. I said, "unbearable."
I thus strongly support legalizing physician assisted suicide.
Ken (Old Texican)| 8.25.10 @ 1:25PM
Allard,
I will begin with a Shakespearian quote.
"Ah but there lies the rub...sleep perchance to dream."
I can't fault you for being agnostic. Dying is simply part of "life".
But...
What if...there is a loving God who lets us dance in the sun...or rain...and will be absolutely just and merciful when we walk into the next phase of our existence in eternity?
"Do justly...love kindness...walk humbly with your Creator." (Micah 6: 6)
See, I have met the Holy Spirit. He said the same thing. Son of a gun!
I can promise you ONE thing. At least ONCE in this life-phase, the Holy Spirit will whisper to you.
I pray that you listen.
God bless
monty.crisco| 8.25.10 @ 1:51PM
"I regard physician-assisted suicide as a civil right and would prefer that I have access to a means of suicide if life becomes unbearable."
So what are you waiting for Allard? You're unbearable to me and most of the other posters here. Have to courage of your convictions and get cracking....
Anna K. from Emory U.| 8.25.10 @ 5:03PM
Thank you, Mr. Anatole, for your quietly stated, reasoned thoughts.
Perhaps if other contributors read your post, they, too, will make an effort to express themselves with more civilized decorum.
As a theology student, I take a keen interest in end-of-life issues, and I have no problem with a physician assisting a patient's death when the patient is in the last stages of a terminal illness, in serious pain, and has requested assistance.
My father, a medical doctor, has told me that many doctors hasten a dying patient's death for merciful reasons, and have always done so without admitting it.
When I am dying, I hope I am fortunate enough to have a doctor who believes in offering mercy so I can die with some dignity.
KyMouse| 8.26.10 @ 11:20AM
How sweet, Anna: "My father, a medical doctor, has told me that many doctors hasten a dying patient's death for merciful reasons, and have always done so without admitting it."
In answer, I'll repeat what I typed earlier in these comments:
The right to die becomes the duty to die....The Daily Telegraph recently reported that "almost half of deaths by euthanasia in Belgium have involved patients who have not explicitly requested [it]...A fifth of nurses interviewed by researchers admitted that they had been involved in the euthanasia of a patient based on the 'assumption' that they would want to die. Nearly half of the nurses -- 120 of 248 -- admitted that they had taken part in 'terminations without request or consent'...Euthanasia has been legal in Belgium since 2002 [and] accounts for 2 percent of all deaths annually...the rules are routinely flouted..."
Makes you feel warm all over, doesn't it, Anna?
Mayte| 8.29.10 @ 3:22PM
I'm a physician. I hope your father understands that that is malpractice. If it is a terminal patient's wish to not pursue certain medical interventions that more than 1 doctor consider to be probably futile, then that intervention should not be pursued (same for families if patient cannot state opinion). However, actively hastening the death on purpose will cause revocation of license --as it should.
Occam's Tool| 8.25.10 @ 5:16PM
How about proper pain management, instead? Killing people because you refuse to properly manage their pain seems ass-backwards to me.
M.D. from Maryland| 8.25.10 @ 6:13PM
Pain management? As a physician who regularly treats patients in terminal stages, I can assure you that managing a patient's pain is not that easy.
Pain medications prescribed for chronic conditions cause nausea, and nausea can be worse than pain. Imagine living daily with nausea.
Most medical personnel who work with dying patients see the need for physician assisted dying.
You really have to work with dying pages to understand how agonizing the dying process can be.
And as for the commenter who would like to "die with some dignity," I am afraid there is no such thing.
Ken (Old Texican)| 8.25.10 @ 6:56PM
MD from Maryland,
Hey idiot...................it is not supposed to be "easy"! That is why decent doctors are paid very well.
Go back to whittling and pill rolling.
Toto| 8.25.10 @ 7:03PM
Old Texican,
Your insulting name-calling diminishes any credibility you might think you have.
Here's a suggestion: Perhaps your local community college offers a course in "remedial manners." If so, I suggest you might benefit from it.
M.D. from Maryland| 8.25.10 @ 7:09PM
Ken (Old Texican) cares little for objectivity. As someone said in an earlier comment, "You're wasting your time trying to reason with the regular AmSpec commenters."
How true. One thing for sure--this is the last time I will make a comment on this blog.
Anna K. from Emory U.| 8.25.10 @ 7:13PM
M.D.,
We need more capable people with something to say on this thread. Don't give up because of the rudeness.
The public will think all conservatives are of this abrasive ilk if the more polite ones remain silent.
Please . . . you have something worthwhile to say, so say it.
Dan Hirsch| 8.26.10 @ 9:42AM
Oh no! The M.D. from Maryland is not going to bless us with his pearls of wisdom any longer. Dang you, Ol' Texican!
Any one who claims to be a doctor who is oblivious to the concept that death is not supposed to be easy is clueless. He obviously considers his patients as inanimate cases, not human beings created by God, in His image, with an immortal soul.
I wonder that this is the type of doctor that Obama care seeks to foist on us all.
I do not wonder, I know, that this is the type of doctor who believes in true pain management: give them enough morphine so they stop calling and bothering me!
See ya later, Doc!
BD57| 8.25.10 @ 10:30PM
I have no problem with you believing what you believe.
I do have a problem with anyone who thinks what you believe should be "government policy."
Stan Redmond| 8.26.10 @ 3:25AM
It is your civil right to FORCE a physician to kill you? I find that bizaar. You believe you have a right to dictate what someone must do for / to you? When a person was forced to work for someone else we use to call it slavery, you want to call it a civil right.
Appleby| 8.25.10 @ 6:59AM
In Kanukistan this week it has suddenly been discovered that the average age of our Abortion-For-All-For-Free-Forever culture is now 40, and that the vast majority of the population is going to retire sooner rather than later -- after 60 years of the Baby Boom, who would have guessed? -- and that our wobbling, teetering Socialist Medicine Scheme is going to collapse under the weight of Old Agers.
Their solution? Assisted Suicide!
If only you guys would just take a look north of the border and find out how that scheme actually WORKS, you could save yourselves a whole lot of grief.
Come up here and sit in a downtown hospital on an average weekend and just LOOK AND LISTEN.
Indiana Alex| 8.25.10 @ 8:22AM
Perhaps the problem up north is that you don't have access to the brain trust that this administration has appointed to finally make central planning work.
Of course Joe Biden wasn't appointed, but he should be included as he is a member of the team.
John - TMF| 8.25.10 @ 8:30AM
The ultimate Utilitarian truth:
Nothing reduces medical costs better than a quick death.
A corollary if you will:
Nothing makes that death sentence more accepted by the condemned than being stoned out of his mind.
Socialist medicine's ultimate goal is that of the continuation of the herd; support the healthy and sacrifice the old and weak.
The irony is that in nature the leaders of the herd are subject to its rules as much as the lowest member of the group; however in the human construct, the leaders have no willingness to subject themselves to such ill treatment.
There are no other outcomes for socialized medicine. Death Panels would eventually be replaced by blind bureaucracy, and a lone apparatchik checking a box: "Too Fat? Strike one, Too Old? Strike two, Too weak? Strike three; here's your "happy" pills take take three, and you won't need to call us in the morning."
They derided Aldus Huxley for being cruel and unrealistic. Zamyatin for a "We" refresher course anybody?
R/The Mighty Fahvaag
Fenestra| 8.25.10 @ 9:28AM
Why is any of this a surprise? The sacrifice of the individual for the collective is a hallmark of liberal leftist thinking. "Death Panels" was blindingly accurate, a blinding flash of the obvious. That was the reason the left jumped on Sarah Palin, the truth hurt and they had to lash back. If the state pays for your health care, it is in the state's interest to bias care to further it's own interests. Not yours.
Why isn't that blinding obvious to the left?
Ken (Old Texican)| 8.25.10 @ 10:15AM
Fenestra,
Sarah just scares the doo doo out of every one of those communist, (pardon the shorthand), sobs.
I can hardly wait for her new book to come out. I have used my publisher's pull to hopefully get it from Amazon.com prior to the release date.
Sue| 8.25.10 @ 10:50AM
Miss Alabama must lead a very unhappy life. The additional three months of life lived could mean seeing your child born, your grandchild born, your great grandchild born, your children marry, dancing at your grandchildren's weddings, many things including the acceptance of God in your life.
Miss Alabama seems to believe that she holds the meaning of life in her hands, not you, and she will decide for you.
I happy for her that she feels as though she will decide "when to die" but I'm much feared that under the nutjobs in this administration, they will take away that right from her unbeknownst to her. What irony.
Appleby| 8.25.10 @ 11:58AM
I am guessing Miss Alabama is waiting for an inheritance. In fact, it wouldn't surprise me if she is a cousin of mine, and I know which one. And she ought to be ashamed, but I bet she has forgotten how. No worries, kid -- God will teach you when you see Him face to face.....
Stan Redmond| 8.26.10 @ 3:28AM
Don't forget the simple things. If I'm gonna check out and my lungs and liver are still healthy I'm going to start smoking and drinking because I can't take them with me. I could finish a couple good books in 3 months. I could eat pizzas all day long and tell my doc to shove it when he lectures me about my cholesterol levels.
Bill Hussein O'Stalin| 8.25.10 @ 10:51AM
This is the ultimate result of collectivism which always ends in mass extinction, racism and shared misery.
With millions of abortions at one end and death camps at the other the pincer movement becomes complete, trapping the living in a never ending series of more political aspirations of the American political equivalent of the death star.
Once the government starts picking winners and losers in one area, like affirmative action. the suckers shouldn't complain when it's their turn to go to the collectivist camp, even when it's a death camp.
Petronius| 8.25.10 @ 11:36AM
Say it ain't so Bill. Are you implying that Soylent Green will be made out of Liberals? That would lead to terminal diarrhea.
Richard| 8.25.10 @ 11:57AM
My Indian ancestors were in fact very progressive. The infirm were stripped of their clothing and left on the prairie to die. Hey, it saved the money of the "young and healthy".
Appleby| 8.25.10 @ 11:59AM
Ah but your young and healthy ancestors weren't overweight tweetheads and binkie slingers, who are going to be horrified to discover one fine morning that THEY are now TheMan.
JP| 8.25.10 @ 1:42PM
Funny how people like Miss Alabama turn apoleptic when discussing abortion, but have no problem with some faceless bureaucrat in some nameless cubicle deciding who should die. For that is heart of "end of life issues". What if pray tell the person doesn't wish to die? The choice is not thiers (and niether is it concerning abortion. No one considers the unborn).
It is ironic that the Progressives relish the position of determining who shall be born and when they should die. Whether they realize it or not, they have the souls of a Dr. Mengele.
dw| 8.25.10 @ 1:46PM
Yes, by all means turn more and more of your life and death over to the government. Why not make a rule that no one should live beyond 60 or maybe 70.
Why not just get on a government conveyor belt from birth through death and let the state engineer your life. As long as you have a dwelling unit and basic nuitrition you will then be trained to function in some beneficial role, as detirmined through personality and intelligence testing, aimed at assuring the ongoing welfare of the states survival.
Once you are no longer able to contribute to society you can be legally eliminated. That's even a better idea....not an age deadline but a measure of your ongoing worth to the greater good. If by 20 or 30, or any age for that matter, you can not contribute, your out.
Should there be a minimum age requirement? Probably not, so even at birth if one is detirmined to be a likely drag on society their journey can be halted right then and there.
Great care will have to be inacted so that there is no favoritism shown to the elite but I imagine there will still be some cheating on that count. There always is.
How you are eliminated is still up for debate but there is no lack of ideas for that.
Ultimately medical treatment cost could be reduced to almost zero. This is brilliant if I do say so myself.
Petronius| 8.25.10 @ 9:32PM
G. B. Shaw beat you to that one. He proposed that anybody not active in the work force be required to justify their further existence when their savings ran out.
dianneks| 8.25.10 @ 1:56PM
My mother was diagnosed with lung cancer last November. They caught it on a routine chest x-ray. She is 83, has been in a nursing home for going on 5 years, paralyzed on one side, has kidney failure. Now, when they found the cancer they immediately tried to impress on us to bring in Hospice, let her go. She was so upset about the diagnosis she quit eating and drinking fluids and nearly did die as nursing homes aren't allowed to "force feed" anyone, or so they told us. So we, her children, held the spoon and cup to her mouth and after a few days convinced her that she would die, but from kidney failure, if she continued to refuse to eat or drink. She was weak, but we got her to her kidney doctor who reaffirmed what we were saying. She didn't lie to her, but she warned her that she would be killing herself if she continued to not eat or drink.
We REFUSED Hospice and ORDERED the nursing home to stop any talk of imminent death. We requested PT/OT to get her strength back. We asked that there no NO change in her routine. We knew she couldn't be treated for the cancer because of her kidneys and other health issues but we were determined to have her live a good life for as long as she could.
Long story short, since last November, she has been to our homes for Christmas, New Years,
Easter, Memorial Day, Fourth of July, two graduations, and out on several "field" trips with the Nursing Home. She has had a subsequent x-ray and the cancer remains confined to one place in her lung and has not grown. As I write this she is probably out engaging in one of the nursing home activities of the day.
I have read that if they did an autopsy on all people that died at an old age of any cause, that a great majority of them would show they had cancer somewhere. Sometimes it manifests itself and we die. Sometimes it does not. We are convinced that if we would have let Hospice in immediately after her diagnosis that she would be dead by now. The time may well come in the future when death is imminent and we will call in Hospice, but let's not start the death clock too soon becasue it may very well result in a death too soon and a life too short.
Appleby| 8.25.10 @ 4:59PM
I think you mistake what Hospice is all about. My blessed Daddy was in a hospice at the end of his life, and not only do they NOT do anything to encourage you to die, but they surround you with the most loving, caring, kindly attention, and your family too, that anybody could want, wish for or pray for. And if you continue to live past the date your doctor foretold, they do not kick you to the kerb and tell you to come back when you are really dying; you can stay there as long as you live. I have lived here in Kanukistan for 12 years and not once has anyone invited me to his or her home, and I have had one (ONE) Canadian visitor to my home. I am in reasonably good health but I would love to live in a Hospice where people would care for me the way they cared for my Daddy.
Biff| 8.25.10 @ 2:39PM
Right on Mr Goldberg!
We absolutely cannot use studies like this one on which treatments are more effective to decide heath policy. The only Christian option is doing everything to save a life, the more expensive and advanced the better, and damn the cost. If families wind up with $$$$ of medical debt, or taxpayers foot the bill, well, that's the American way. Don't let doctors tell people that there are more dignified ways to die than being hooked up to tubes and machines. Anybody who'd seriously suggest any of the above ideas is a filthy goddamn communist who gets sexually excited thinking about killing old people!!!
Oh wait... I got confused for a moment. Someone remind me what was in the Obamacare proposal, and what got taken out.
Michele San Pietro| 8.25.10 @ 5:36PM
I'm not surpised, since Obamacare givers are known for their limitless hypocrisy.
Long Ben| 8.26.10 @ 12:52AM
And so, Sarah Palin was and is not a cross eyed Moonbat . I highly recomend Francis Shaefers' and C Everett Koops' seminal book What ever Happened to the Human Race . Solyent Green is People !
fordor| 8.26.10 @ 3:24PM
Hey, the payment formula has just done a backflip. It is no longer the young wage earners supporting the endless care of retirees. It's the old wage earnings supporting the health care plans of the young slackers. Pls get a clue. We are not going to be allowed to die as long as we are paying.