The American Spectator

Stephanie| 8.17.10 @ 6:53AM

And the bar will serve BBQ, pork of course and have topless waitresses or in this case, bottomless waiters! Somebody, step up to the plate!

Majtio| 8.17.10 @ 8:23AM

Well the waitresses part would not affect the muslim brothers...anybody remember what Atta and his buddies did the weekend before their flight into the twin towers? strip clubs and booze...now that's how one becomes an islamic martyr.

Alan Brooks| 8.17.10 @ 8:56AM

A pork processing plant next door to Cordoba House would do the trick.
Boy do Islamics hate swine;
at a mosque, a guy told me, "on Judgment Day, all the pigs will die!"

AMENBRO| 8.17.10 @ 12:45PM

Are you in that number AL?
When the IMAMAs go marchin in, LOL.
AL HIRT PLAYIN ON & SATCHMO A SINGIN away, while Gabriel dropkicks their INFADEL asses into hell!!
Field GOOOOOAL. ###1 yeahaw
Ain't no stinking virgins here only SAINTS!

AMENBRO| 8.17.10 @ 12:45PM

Are you in that number AL?
When the IMAMAs go marchin in, LOL.
AL HIRT PLAYIN ON & SATCHMO A SINGIN away, while Gabriel dropkicks their INFADEL asses into hell!!
Field GOOOOOAL. ###1 yeahaw
Ain't no stinking virgins here only SAINTS!

ReCap| 8.17.10 @ 6:42PM

"Boy do Islamics hate swine;
at a mosque, a guy told me"

Your being at a mosque would surely explain a lot of other things you say, and don't say.

Alan Brooks| 8.18.10 @ 12:00AM

"Your being at a mosque would surely explain a lot of other things you say, and don't say."

It was a visit- a very long time ago..
If you had visited a KKK Grand Dragon at his home in the 1970s for an interview, or because he was (or is) related to you, does that make you a KKK sympathizer?

R Martin| 8.17.10 @ 9:30AM

That's because hypocracy is one of the major tenants of Islam.

bluecollarbytes| 8.17.10 @ 11:52PM

and deception

Jim Hlavac| 8.17.10 @ 9:20AM

Well, not sure which bar you speak of -- Gutfield's or the Stonewall. Still, gay bar - topless waitresses -- what's wrong with that picture? Now, topless waiters, or scantily under-clad waiters in both bars would be far more on par with a gay bar. But waitresses might not fit the bill. Fortunately, they could be legally fired or not hired based on their sexual orientation, so the gay bar might hire the guys they want.

Though I suppose, since the Pope, and so many straight folks, think that being gay is some "inclination" and that if only we met the right girl, well then, with topless waitresses all those troubles will be solved, right? I often wondered if there was any practical advice to the pastoral care of the pink sheep which the Pope called "evil." How does one minster to the "evil"? Why, the Church won't even let gays into the church buildings to get the pastoral care they request, such is John Paul's outreach to the gays of his flock. And aren't "evil" people incarcerated, or hunted down or something? Isn't that what used to happen before the Stonewall riots, with the blessing of the very same Church which still is quite clear that gay men are "evil"? Yes, that's exactly what happened, and so in a sense the Muslim hatred of gays as evil is not all that different than the Catholic hatred of gays as evil.

Now, still to go further in the tolerance between gays and the Church, pastorally of course, I think the Pope statue is a grand idea, and then of course, a gay tourist welcome center right there in Midtown across the street from St. Patrick's. For while the Pope is entitled to his opinion that gays are "evil" our Declaration of Independence says all men are endowed by God their creator to pursue happiness. And I would think God is a higher authority than even the Pope.

So let's get the Pope down to Christopher Street and the Gay Welcome Center right there at 52nd Street, and let the tolerance begin.

Margie| 8.17.10 @ 10:15AM

God doesn't tolerate Sin and He doesn't want us to either. Homosexuality is Sin. So is lying and so is idolatry, and fornication, and being a thief or a murderer. The issue is Sin.

The reason He doesn't tolerate homosexuality is because He made man for woman and woman for man and it is going against His plan for them. Like you said, God is a higher authority than even the Pope, or any human being for that matter. If you agree with that then I'd encourage you to consider what He says, because He says it out of love. He wants you to to be able to enter into Heaven.

"Outside are the dogs and sorcerers and fornicators and murderers and idolaters, and every one who loves and practices falsehood." Rev. 22:15.

"..just as Sodom and Gomor'rah and the surrounding cities, which likewise acted immorally and indulged in unnatural lust, serve as an example by undergoing a punishment of eternal fire." Jude 1:7.

"..if by turning the cities of Sodom and Gomor'rah to ashes he condemned them to extinction and made them an example to those who were to be ungodly;" 1 Pe. 2:6.

If God is the Highest Authority doesn't it make sense to listen to Him?

"Come now, let us reason together, says the LORD: though your sins are like scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they are red like crimson, they shall become like wool." Is. 1:18.

For God so loved the world that He gave His only Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have eternal life. For God sent the Son into the world, not to condemn the world, but that the world might be saved through Him. He who believes in Him is not condemned; he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the Name of the only Son of God. And this is the judgment, that the Light has come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than Light, because their deeds were evil. For every one who does evil hates the Light, and does not come to the Light, lest his deeds should be exposed. But he who does what is true comes to the Light, that it may be clearly seen that his deeds have been wrought in God. Jn. 3:16-21.

The bad news is that God hates Sin and that we all fall short of His glory. The triple good news is that Jesus died on the cross for the sins of the whole world and that has to include you!

Jim Hlavac| 8.17.10 @ 11:07AM

God might well hate sin, and still, per the pope: He, God, "inclined" people to be gay. Now, why on earth or in Heaven would God have created this small group of people to be so sinful from their very moment of conception so as to be "evil," and "inclined" to be so? And isn't that your personal take on what your God wanted? Or did you speak to Him recently? And while you quote the Bible just fine, is the Bible the only word we should follow, as a theocracy of some sort? The Bible says eating shrimp is a sin, should we ban such a practice then?

And do we not have the right to believe that our God created gays as part of His plan, and we might have a better take on it, since God so clearly loved diversity, and you seek conformity?

And too, did you not think that God, in His infinite wisdom, did create gay people as a test of the great majority, to see how kind and decent they could be? You know, sort of like gays are handicapped, or differently abled, or something? Could you all be failing that test?

And, if some small percent of men are inclined to be gay, and thus evil, or sinful if inclining towards gay love, would you have them get married to a fine woman so that they are less inclined perhaps to "sin" -- and is that fair to the lady in question? Or are gays simply never to engage in any physical contact with anyone ever, so that you are personally happy that your God is happy? Or do you just propose to hunt down the "sinners" and incarcerate them, or somehow enforce your view of sin, and eradicate the "evil."

Really, now, to quote Moses & Jefferson:
Let my people go, so they might pursue happiness!

Of course, when the straight world cleans up it fornication, divorce, child abuse, spousal abuse, adultery, etc, then I suppose you could toss the first stone.

Warrior| 8.17.10 @ 11:24AM

Funny, I recall Jesus used to hang at with the sinners by choice.

Margie| 8.17.10 @ 12:02PM

Warrior,

I'm a sinner, saved by Grace, and I'm hangin' with same.

Albert| 8.17.10 @ 1:59PM

Yes, Jesus "hung" with the sinners, but to get them to stop sinning, not to indulge with them.

Grzmlyk| 8.17.10 @ 11:25AM

God created gay people for one reason and one reason alone:

He likes fabulous window treatments.

Margie| 8.17.10 @ 12:11PM

That'd be true if He did "create" Man to be sinful, but He didn't so I must protest!

"For as in Adam all die, so also in Christ shall all be made alive." 1 Cor. 15:22.

Jesus had to die for that Sin, and it is no laughing matter!

DonDuke| 8.17.10 @ 12:48PM

LMAO Grzmlyk ..... refreshing point of view.... too damn funny! Most times people tend to take themselves much too seriously.

Grzmlyk| 8.17.10 @ 12:57PM

Thanks, DonDuke.

I get so tired of this debate.

Besides, I can't tell Baroque from from Rococco. I figure anyone who can is simply divine. :-)

ShortNSweet| 8.17.10 @ 3:44PM

It is serious, and it will be very serious to every single soul ever created - ONE DAY! "Every Knee shall bow, ever tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord. Philippians 2:9-11. Maybe not today, or but rest assured everyone will one day! Unfortunately, not believing it all DOES NOT exempt anyone from it!

Stephanie| 8.17.10 @ 9:55PM

And funny flight attendants!

Margie| 8.17.10 @ 12:01PM

God has the "best take on Sin." The Bible says that man chooses to sin all on his own and that God has nothing to do with it.

"Behold, this alone I found, that God made man upright, but they have sought out many devices." Ecc. 7:9.

The Bible says the God made man upright. He didn't make them sinful, so that clears that one up.

"Let no one say when he is tempted, "I am tempted by God"; for God cannot be tempted with evil and He himself tempts no one; but each person is tempted when he is lured and enticed by his own desire."Then desire when it has conceived gives birth to sin; and sin when it is full-grown brings forth death." James 1:13-15.

Again~ God has nothing to do with Sin.

"This is the message we have heard from Him and proclaim to you, that God is Light and in Him is no darkness at all." 1 Jn. 1:5.

~He has NOTHING to do with Sin.

How can you not listen to the truth? If He says he will throw you into Hell for practicing homosexuality, do you not think He will do it? (above refs.). Don't you fear God?

"Because they hated knowledge and did not choose the fear of the LORD, would have none of My counsel, and despised all My reproof, therefore they shall eat the fruit of their way and be sated with their own devices. For the simple are killed by their turning away, and the complacence of fools destroys them." Prov. 1:29-33.

It isn't for us to make the rules on how to get to Heaven.

"For My thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways My ways, says the LORD. For as the Heavens are higher than the Earth, so are My ways higher than your ways and My thoughts than your thoughts." Is. 55:8 & 9

I'm not tossing any stones, I'm passing to you what I know which is from the Bible and God and it is commanded of me as a Christian to do. To preach the gospel of good news and the forgiveness of Sin through Jesus Christ.

"..and He is the expiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the sins of the whole world." 1 Jn. 2:2.

There's only one way to God, and to Heaven. That's through Jesus Himself..

"Jesus said to him, "I am the Way, and the Truth, and the Life; no one comes to the Father, but by Me." Jn. 14:6.

No one wants a "theocrisy". And God doesn't force anyone to obey Him. He does want me to warn you, though. Out of love.

"So we know and believe the love God has for us. God is love, and he who abides in love abides in God, and God abides in him. In this is love perfected with us, that we may have confidence for the day of judgment, because as He is so are we in this world. There is no fear in love, but perfect love casts out fear. For fear has to do with punishment, and he who fears is not perfected in love. We love because He first loved us." 1 Jn. 4:16-19.

Love you, Mr. Hlavac.

1Jo 4:19 We love, because he first loved us.

Pro 1:33 but he who listens to me will dwell secure and will be at ease, without dread of evil."

Jim Hlavac| 8.17.10 @ 11:52PM

Margie, -- sure you love "me" -- so long as I am someone other than I am. But if I am who I claim to be -- a natural born gay man by the Grace of God, then your love seems to decline somewhat. Surely the Pope calling me "intrinsically evil" is a bit tough on my acceptance of any proffered love; I hope you understand. While I do not question your faith, or your devotion to your beliefs, this is not a theocracy. So Bible quotes, while guiding lights to be sure, like "don't divorce, it's a sin," -- the reality is that gay people are simply born this way. Consider it a handicap, sure. Consider it some unfortunate reality, in need of pity, I can deal. Feel sorry for me that I don't enjoy something which you find enjoyable, sure, I can deal with that too. But what I can't handle is the sanctimonious selective Bible quoting, none of which deal with the reality at hand -- some percentage of the population has been consistently gay since the dawn of man. Indeed, your own constant reference to ancient texts is quite illustrative of the continuing "menace" of this "intrinsic evil" I have, though you love me still.

Meanwhile, the good book is clear that woman should not be in the public fora having discussions on the issue of the day, for it is sin. And yet, there you are, discussing stuff. Further, I have yet to compare the "sin" of gayness with the "sin" of divorce, but instead go for murderers and other such nefarious people. And there are many things done in this country that are very much not in the word or the spirit of the Bible, which every one, including the Catholic Church, and many a preacher of any denomination, has seemingly no problem with.

It's as if you've accepted every sin except this last one -- and it's about the only one on the list that isn't a choice. I know you don't believe it, but I live it. So how do you know so well what goes on in my brain?

But you call me a sinner -- for something over which I had as much control as if I was left handed or club footed.

Nothing speaks of love as those with sin casting stones. Ahem.

Margie| 8.18.10 @ 1:02AM

Jim,

The only "difference" between you and me is I've been saved by Grace. I'm a horrible, reprehensible sinner and deserve Hell but for some reason God loved me and rescued me from the pit and the miry bog so to speak, and "set my feet upon a rock," as the Psalmist says.

There is something and it's called agape love, that's a Greek work for a certain type of love, and it means God's love. There are all kinds of love. Yes because of God's love toward me I am able to honestly love you in that I want to see you get to Heaven. I had to admit I was a ruined sinner and ask for Him to forgive me for all of my sins and to come inside of my heart and reveal Himself to me, and He actually did. That was back in 1975. As I get older I become a worse sinner and need Him all the more. I have failed Him in many ways since then but He's never failed me yet, and I have no choice but to always return to Him again and beg for His mercy because where else can I go? I need Him and Jesus is a good Lord~ a much better one than me!

"Whither shall I go from Thy Spirit? Or whither shall I flee from Thy presence? If I ascend to Heaven, Thou art there! If I make my bed in Sheol, Thou art there! If I take the wings of the morning and dwell in the uttermost parts of the sea, even there Thy Hand shall lead me, and Thy Right Hand shall hold me. If I say, "Let only darkness cover me, and the light about me be night," even the darkness is not dark to Thee, the night is bright as the day; for darkness is as light with Thee. For Thou didst form my inward parts, Thou didst knit me together in my mother's womb. I praise Thee, for Thou art fearful and wonderful. Wonderful are Thy works! Thou knowest me right well; my frame was not hidden from Thee, when I was being made in secret, intricately wrought in the depths of the Earth. Thy eyes beheld my unformed substance; in thy book were written, every one of them, the days that were formed for me, when as yet there was none of them. How precious to me are Thy thoughts, O God! How vast is the sum of them! If I would count them, they are more than the sand. When I awake, I am still with Thee." Ps. 139:7-18.

I must face Him eventually anyway and so why not now? There is only a short time to run away from Him but we will all have to stand before Him and face eternity. This short little life we have here is nothing compared to eternity.

"For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, so that each one may receive good or evil, according to what he has done in the body." 2 Cor. 5:10.

I don't know about you, and you can accuse me of being "holier than thou" for speaking thusly but I take Him very seriously. If God didn't use other human beings to present the gospel, the very stones would cry out.

"He answered, "I tell you, if these were silent, the very stones would cry out." Lk. 19:40.

It would be a good idea for you to read the New Testament and find out what God actually does say about Sin and Hell. They do exist, and the Bible says that we are all headed to Hell apart from Christ.

As for woman "speaking out" the Bible actually says that is in church. That the men ought to lead and not the women.

"..the women should keep silence in the churches. For they are not permitted to speak, but should be subordinate, as even the law says." 1 Cor. 14:34.

If you actually read the Bible you'd know what it says. So much for you trying to find fault with me but it isn't really with me that you are finding fault, is it?

Homosexuality is a case of mistaken identity. God did not make you to practice this sin. He would not tell us that it is a cause to be thrown into Hell if He accepted it, would He? Therefore if He says it's wrong, it is something you must face and it will be now or later and your eternity is coming just as all of ours is. That coffin is waiting for us all and life is short.

"Men of low estate are but a breath, men of high estate are a delusion; in the balances they go up; they are together lighter than a breath." Ps. 62:9.

You need to see things (as I do) the way God does. And then ask Him for His help. Beg Him for His mercy (as I must) and for His Spirit to come into your heart and to take your heart of stone and make it soft. And He will.

"A new heart I will give you, and a new spirit I will put within you; and I will take out of your flesh the heart of stone and give you a heart of flesh." Ez. 36:26.

God bless you, Jim.

Jim Hlavac| 8.18.10 @ 1:42AM

The difference between you and I, my dear lady, is that you think being gay is a sin, a choice, an act -- and turn to scripture for your support -- and I know being gay is a natural thing, based on personal experience, and turn to God's great creation and the rather overwhelming incomprehensibility of it all, to find some logic as to why I might be attracted to men and have absolutely never had an interest in women. You know what you believe and I know what I know, you get yours from a book, I live mine -- and so the question is -- is this a theocracy for your views, or a Liberty Based Republic where we might just coexist? I would rather the latter. I have no problem with the Bible or it's believers and heap no scorn upon you, and quote nothing more than "have at it, but leave me be." But you, and many others, have a big problem with gay people and wish us to change, and have no problem with heaping unimaginable scorn upon us, and expect us to just smile and take it, for you claim you are right.

For the night, since we resolved nothing other than that we should perhaps just agree to disagree, I ask but two questions:
1) what would you do if a son of yours was gay, as my mother's son was?
and
2) if I denied my reality and pretended I was not gay would you let me marry you daughter, cousin or sister?
Not meant to be sarcastic -- far from it -- really, would you accept an "ex-gay" as a son-in-law -- or would you forever have a doubt? Or should gay people just atomize ourselves and never talk to anyone lest the "intrinsic evil" surface?

I know one thing though, for my 30 years of reading American Spectator I have endeavored to get the readers and publishers to even consider my points on this issue. I have been rebuffed, and still I keep reading -- for on so many things this publication is for Liberty -- and then it comes to gays -- and there goes the concept right back into Medieval scripture quoting.

So please, continue as you do, and I shall continue as I do. But I ask no more than to rid the land of laws against me, since I'm paying the taxes, then, to support my own oppression. Tax me not if I can't be part of society. I ask no more to be left alone, (and at least you all don't raid the gay bars and arrest everyone anymore, always a good sign.) Still, there you all are, telling me that some book written long ago, edited to fit the times, used to tell me I'm "intrinsically evil" -- and that, ma'am, is just not, well, just not Christian Love by any words.

Now, go rabble rouse against divorce, and see how far you get. How easy to scathe gays, when the majority is on your side. How weak the Bible quoters become, with their crab meat stuffed pork chops with their second wives, decrying my "sin" when they have the stone in their eye, blinding them.

Have a pleasant evening, and get solace in your faith, that gay people are here, and we're not going anywhere short of the point of a gun. Will you pick that gun up? I wouldn't against you, that's for sure. But if I be "intrinsically evil," what other choice do you have?

Margie| 8.18.10 @ 2:29AM

I guess you haven't read a thing. It's not what I think, it is what God thinks. His words, not mine. And you "started it." You have no qualms about posting your inward thoughts here, and that is ok but if I respond then you become a victim somehow? Oh well.

You haven't looked at what He says and taken it into any kind of consideration. I hope one day you will listen to what He says before it's too late.

To your #1 question~ If a Son of mine were wanting to choose the homosexual lifestyle I would explain to him that it is against God and show him with Bible in hand the verses relating to it. I would explain how God didn't make man to behave this way, no matter what the world says. I would tell him that it is a lie to believe he is born that way. I would pray with him for God's help and ask God to clearly show my Son His truth. I would explain to him that homosexuality is a case of mistaken identity. Most boys are looking to replace the relationship that they didn't have with their Fathers growing up. So they seek that kind of love from a man that they missed out on. In some cases boys have been sexually abused as children and grow up thinking they were destined to be homosexual, continuing in the behavior because they have been so ruined by the experience and know nothing else. Sometimes it is caused by an overbearing Mother in his life and he wants nothing to do with women when he grows up. All of these things are cause and effect and are not what God has intended.

Have you ever heard of Exodus? They are men who have given up the lifestyle because they've come to understand the truth about homosexuality. And Hope for the Heart's June Hunt has an excellent explanation she wrote explaining the usual reasons this lifestyle is chosen. It's entitled: Homosexuality~ A Case of Mistaken Identity. It is an eye opener and I am going to pray that you at least read it out of sheer curiosity if nothing else. It could change your entire outlook.

Question #2~ Why would you pretend that you wish to practice this lifestyle if that is what you are choosing to do, so that question doesn't work. If you chose to give your life to the Lord Jesus Christ though, then He would change you from the inside out, Jim. That is what He does. This God who made you loves you and He promises to reveal Himself to you if you honestly seek Him. He changes our cold hard hearts to tender ones and renews our minds and then we are ABLE to follow Him and His will, but not until then. Not until you get your new heart and new spirit. The Bible says that we're all in spiritual darkness until and unless He regenerates us from above.(Jn. 3:3).

RCV| 8.19.10 @ 5:51PM

Jim: God loves you. Just as you are. Don't listen to the purveyors of hate here. Jesus spent 40 years on this earth, and uttered not a word about homosexuality (or surely the words would have been preserved), but he sure spent a lot of time castigating those -- like the self-righteouson this site -- who would judge you while ignoring their own more grievous sins of hatred toward their fellow-men, spewing venom at our elected President, uttering racial epthets. Be proud of yourself and who you are, be kind and loving to others, and your Father will welcome you even though the sinners on earth might spit upon you.

Nick| 8.20.10 @ 12:03AM

RCV,

More baseless charges, I see.

Who are the "self-righteous" who utter "racial epithets" on this site? It would be nice to use specifics, rather than libel a group of people with generalities.

Also, are you claiming that everything Christ taught was recorded in the Gospels? If so, try reading the last verses of the Gospel of Saint John.

Margie| 8.20.10 @ 3:17AM

Nick,

In Canada I think it is they throw pastors in jail for saying homosexuality is sin. Pretty soon it will be here, too. Maybe one day we will meet in prison and I will gladly greet you as a brother.

"For I am not ashamed of the gospel: it is the power of God for salvation to every one who has faith, to the Jew first and also to the Greek." Rms. 1:16.

ShortNSweet| 8.17.10 @ 3:25PM

Margie, what you said is absolutely scriptural, and enough said. God knew men would ridicule Him and those who put Him first in their lives. He required His born again children to spread His word, and that you did. God bless you!

Jim Hlavac,
God created man for Himself! It's not for our happiness! Homosexuality is in the exact same realm of sinfulness as all the other sins you so ably listed. God didn't create a guy to be gay. God didn't create a liar to tell lies. God didn't create child mulester to make things interesting, or sick. God didn't create men to be murderers for the over-crowding problems of the world...God Created Men FOR HIMSELF! If a gay guy can't get over being gay - then he might have to sacrifice that all of his life....If the sin is lying, and that person can't get over telling lies he might have to cut his tongue out...We are to deny self and take up our cross and follow Him! (Christ Jesus) Sorry if that busts the bubbles of the selfish whiny culture that we embrace and so dearly love - but that's the hard cold TRUTH! Read the book dude! You are a scary individual, and hopefully that Light (Christ Jesus) in this world will one day shine on you!

Jim Hlavac| 8.18.10 @ 2:01AM

Hey Shortie, I have read the Book, cover to cover. I particularly love the part where Jonathan loves David and David loves Jonathan, and they go to the desert to their tent -- First Samuel, look it up. I can find nothing that says gays are "intrinsically evil" but I do find lots of other stuff, say, about divorce being a sin - -and yet I find no readers here calling for the outlawing of divorce. Indeed I find divorce to be quite acceptable in America today, with straight people willynilly disavowing their sacred vows, while denying me the right to make my own. I find that somewhat hypocritical. Which is one of the worst sins, as Jesus says.

And I don't question your faith -- whatever keeps you stable is fine by me. But you require me to join your faith, as if we are a theocracy -- which rejects me as I am, and requires me to lie. What a Hobson's choice.

You say God didn't create gays -- how do you know? By what authority? Where does it say that in the Bible? It does not. And yet, here we are, so many men just saying the same thing over and over again for thousands of years -- "but we're born this way." Then it's just a matter of dealing the level of hate by a given society. Fortunately today ours is more benign.

I have no love for this "selfish whiny culture" you mention, nor what you mean by it -- that's why I've been reading this publication for 30 years.

But who are you to deny what I feel, what I know, what every gay man knows? : we just are -- and we are as clueless as you are as to why. But at least we come to terms with it, and not just go "Lalalalala, I don't want to hear about it."

I hold to extremely conservative views on virtually every subject, and have never been a part of this "whiny culture," whatever it is, you say I love. You presume things unknown to you, which is the sin of hubris. It's in the Book.

The world has shone on me, for I'm extraordinarily happy that God did see to put light into the eyes, hearts and minds of straight people and you no longer just drag us out to the public square and burn us over the faggots. Hallelujah.

Do not compare gays to molesters or murderers -- or reinstitute the laws against us. Or otherwise you are letting some awfully horrendous criminals running around. You'll find us in the internet under "gay bars .... " and pick a city. You might find us there, so you can exercise what police power you might desire to arrest us, whom you compare to murderers.

Nothing says Christian love than "you're just like a murderer" and "you're intrinsically evil." Nope, nothing. Yah. Peace.

Ruth| 8.18.10 @ 6:27PM

Dear Jim,
I agree with you about divorce.
The attitude in our society that says to children, "Your father and I don't feel like being married any more, and you will just have to live with it" is repugnant to God. Scripture says clearly that God hates divorce.
There are many married men and women who are very interested in members of the opposite sex with whom they are not married.
It's strong and it's "natural" but against God's law to give in to sin.
We are all sinners, but with different temptations. You are capable of more than just giving in to your desires. You are capable of greatness, of a relationship with God that will far out-satisfy anything else you can desire.
There are people standing on a boat and they are calling out to you. Unless you reach for the life preserver, you're not going to make it.
It isn't "hate" to tell a man he's drowning.

Please see this organization: Jonahweb.org
or peoplecanchange.com

Margie| 8.20.10 @ 3:30AM

Thanks ShortNSweet,

"If the world hates you, know that it has hated Me before it hated you." Jn. 15:18.

Rick| 8.18.10 @ 7:08PM

God doesn't tolerate sin? LOL! If he didnt, none of us would be here, including you. He forgives and forgives and forgives... he forgives before you do it, he has to because the price has already been paid.

P.S. You missed the point in Sodom and Gom.. its pretty much the same point in all his messages.. the same point that founded this country. I think you should be a member of that Mosque, it would suit your style better.

Margie| 8.20.10 @ 3:20AM

Hey smarty pants~ haven't you heard of the Day of Judgement?

"The times of ignorance God overlooked, but now He commands all men everywhere to repent, because He has fixed a day on which He will judge the world in righteousness by a man whom He has appointed, and of this He has given assurance to all men by raising Him from the dead." Acts 17:30 & 31.

Tim*| 8.17.10 @ 4:30PM

Gender Confused Boy writes ,
" Why, the Church won't even let gays into the church buildings to get the pastoral care they request, such is John Paul's outreach to the gays of his flock."

You're full of crap , among other things .

Gays can come into a Catholic Church .

Stephanie| 8.17.10 @ 10:00PM

I believe we Presbyterians would welcome them as well. God gave man a thing called Free Will and if we choose to sin, it's our choice, not God's.

Jim Hlavac| 8.17.10 @ 11:42PM

The Church certainly did say to groups of gay Catholics that they could no longer use the facilities to discuss the issue of why there are gay people, and how gays might fit in with the world. Indeed, the Church amply used many of the versus which were quoted here above against gay people to make the order.

It is true that a gay man can physically enter a church, but so long as he either denies he's gay, or hides it, or admits to being some sinner ready to find the girl of his dreams or to simply abjure from all physical contact with anyone again, he's not welcome by the official Church. That's what is clear by the Pope's very words quoted in the article we're all commenting on.

So sir, who's filled with what?

How can anyone offer Pastoral care to people whom you believe are intrinsically evil? The Pope couldn't come up with a good way, so he simply banned gay Catholics from saying their gay. Asking, essentially, gay men to live a lie. And if the commentary on sin here is true, then which is the worse sin -- being gay or lying about it?

But still, calling people "intrinsically evil" is not exactly the way to win friends, influence people or give pastoral care. Just telling gays to "get over it" does not exactly address the issue.

Nick| 8.18.10 @ 1:58AM

Mr. Hlavac,

The Holy Father never called homos "intrinsically evil." Why must you lie? Only actions can be evil, not people. Homosexual acts are an intrinsic moral evil. Marital acts committed by those who are not married are also evil, though not intrinsically. Intrinsically evil acts can never be justified or condoned.

You seem to be a very progressive and enlightened soul. But how open minded are you? If you were born with this "inclination," are those who prefer sex with both genders also born with their "inclination?" Are those who are "inclined" to have sex while being beaten born that way? Do you see where this is going?

Okay, how about people who prefer sex with animals, are they born that way? Or, people who prefer sex with children, are they born that way?

Are people who prefer to steal, rather than work, born that way? Was Charlie Manson born to kill? The "I was born this way" defense was discredited long ago.

Sex is a choice, unless you are claiming that you go into heat, like a dog? God did not make you a homo, Mr. Hlavac. You make your own choices.

I'll pray for you, sir.
God Bless.

Jim Hlavac| 8.18.10 @ 2:40AM

Um, Nick, thanks for the very understanding "homo" bit -- always nice to feel the love and respect for the decency of the opinions and beliefs of your fellow Americans in earnest conversation about the issue of our times. I do confess how I feel somewhat flummoxed that I somehow wound in such a reviled group of people, and to learn that you are quite certain that I "choose" to join this club so that such fine fellows as you can call us "homo" with such impunity -- and think that it is the slur. But sir, you pretend to be homo sapien, but are somewhat less -- for still, you are ignorant of the words "intrinsically evil" -- they are what the Pope said gay acts, gay people, gayness, just the whole thing, are. And it's just go to stop. Indeed, so many of you, including you, Christian fellow with imprecations on your lips in haughtiness, rather strongly feel should just stop.

I'll let you know if I do.

Meanwhile, I find it funny that gays here are so scorned, and yet, the one thrust of the article is how wonderful that a gay bar at the Victory Mosque might put a stop to it.

It reminds of all the straights who wander into gay bars to gawk at the freaks. Useful for the show, but shunned when over.

Nick| 8.18.10 @ 3:17AM

Mr. Hlavac,

I use the term "homo" because:
A) It really seems to bug you guys, and
B) to remind you of your shame.

Just like when I call promiscuous people sluts and whores.

Also, divorce is permitted by Protestants. The Catholic Church does not allow divorce. It is only when a person chooses to remarry, that the Sacraments are then disallowed.

I see you have no rebuttal against the other perverted "inclinations" that I've listed, and their practitioners being born that way, huh? Why is that? If you can be born a homo, why can't bisexuals be born that way? Or, any other pervert? Or, criminals?

To be clear, I am a sinner, just like you. To quote the anti-Semite peanut farmer, "I have lusted in my heart." Many times. And, I constantly struggle with it. The difference between you and me, is that I call these acts SINFUL, rather than trying to justify them, and I try to fight the "inclination."

We are not SEXUAL beings, we are HUMAN beings. Unless, you really are claiming to be like a dog, or other animal, and that you go into heat or need sex constantly.

Ruth| 8.18.10 @ 6:00PM

Please look at this article in Wikipedia:
"Life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness".
The "pusuit of happiness" is very often misunderstood.

Tim*| 8.17.10 @ 7:13AM

Interesting , that people are again attempting to draw Catholicism and The Pope into this mosque issue.

Ken (Old Texican)| 8.17.10 @ 7:17AM

Jeff,
A Good One. I had not heard that story about TR.

Hmmmmm...there is some humor lurking too in TR's words on the door-post of that bar.
"Walk softly and carry a big stick."

Majito| 8.17.10 @ 7:26AM

and don't forget the deli across the street (not kosher btw) with a varied selection of hams, along with the bakery and freshly baked bread every hours...specially at this time of the year...btw, did you know that when i worked for the shah in tehran, several restaurant owners told me that during their fasting months, that when they do their most delivery business? apparently is ok to not eat outside the home but inside, well honey that's a different story...

JimH| 8.17.10 @ 8:09AM

I'm not as big a fan of Roosevelt as some Republicans, but he did have many admirable qualities. Regarding the mosque (cultural center?), Is the group who wants the mosque Sufi or Shiite? Whichever one it is, they can demonstrate their own tolerance by splitting the facility with members of the other sect.

Tim*| 8.17.10 @ 8:20AM

Good point JimH !

You focused on a germane issue .

Grzmlyk| 8.17.10 @ 8:31AM

Greg Gutfeld deserves to be more famous than he is. He's witty, thoughtful, gracious and a clear-eyed conservative - sans the elitist puffery that infects so many conservative thinkers.

He is a good egg.

Tim*| 8.17.10 @ 8:31AM

As well , the Sunni and Shiite issue is a problem .

JimH| 8.17.10 @ 8:51AM

I meant Sunni. I shouldn't type early in the morning.

NavyBrat| 8.17.10 @ 8:37AM

I too, am not the biggest TR fan, but the man had some big brass ones. And he had some things to say that, today, NO ONE has the brass ones to say. Like this:

"There is no room in this country for hyphenated Americans... The one absolutely certain way of bringing this nation to ruin, of preventing all possibility of it continuing to be a nation at all, would be to permit it to become a tangle of squabbling nationalities."...Teddy Roosevelt

NavyBrat| 8.17.10 @ 8:42AM

And thanks to some suggestions from you guys here & my Townhall.com bros & sisters, my BBQ shop has a name now.

"Holy Smoke: The BBQ Mecca of New York"
"BBQ So Good, You'll Slap M0hamed!"

Yes, the bikini clad waitresses are a go.

Yes, we will rename the famous "kamaikaze" shooter to "the jihadi."

I'm still taking suggestions for menu names for dishes.

Flee| 8.17.10 @ 4:43PM

The topless waitresses would certainly appeal to the lesbian sisters of Muslim faith. We wouldn't want to exclude them now would we lest we get sued.

MoeBlotz| 8.17.10 @ 9:02AM

The incident that helped TR's ascent to POTUS was the assassination of President McKinley. No doubt President Roosevelt used his wits assiduously as depicted in the article above

gearjammer| 8.17.10 @ 9:28AM

You think you are so clever pointing out this hypocrite stuff by our elites-like shooting fish in a barrel. Only these fish are sharks and they wield ak 47's and we pack water pistols. Take more than wit and such gems showing their two faced depravity. We need tougher stuff to stop them and then destroy them.

Ken (Old Texican)| 8.17.10 @ 10:00AM

Gearjammer, good points.

However, timing is everything. 9-11 was our modern December 7th, but a whole lot of folks missed the memo.
We have been very fortunate in the past. We did not have a NAZI sympathizer in the oval office in the 40s, and we did not have a Communist sympathizer in the oval office during from the mid 40s through the wall coming down.

It seems now we have all three sympathizers at once when one includes Islam.

Steve A| 8.17.10 @ 10:16AM

Let them build it & then fund the Naked Cowboy, with security, to strum away on the street in front between prayer sets.

Margie| 8.17.10 @ 10:22AM

I wonder if the good Mayor would object to a group of people gathering daily in front of said abomination for prayer to the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob?

Now there's an idea.

Stephanie| 8.17.10 @ 10:05PM

Now, I like THAT idea Margie!

Jim Hlavac| 8.18.10 @ 2:51AM

Margie, I'm there with you -- for I used to work in those buildings, where the second plane hit, and my brother-in-law, a fireman, died, and where I lost friends, and because I am an American. I'm there with you. But you'll have to accept that help from a gay man. Sorry, but that's just the way it is. Funny how the line of abomination isn't as clear any more, isn't it?

RCV| 8.19.10 @ 5:03PM

They have every right to do so, so long as they don't block the public sidewalk. Muslims, by the way, pray to the God of Abraham as well.

Nick| 8.20.10 @ 12:08AM

RCV,

"Muslims, by the way, pray to the God of Abraham as well."

Wrong.
Moslems CLAIM that they pray to the God of Abraham. Mohammed had no proof for his rewriting of history.

Margie| 8.20.10 @ 3:25AM

Hahaha, first they pray, then in the name of their false God they commit murder. WAKE UP RCV~ where are you headed by following these lies yourself? Why do you want to defend lies?

Doug| 8.17.10 @ 10:22AM

I think that, if the mosque is built, that a rumor (or better yet a reported after-the-fact fact) should be started that the workers ate pulled pork sandwiches during their lunch breaks and left the wrappers in the walls. *s*

Ken (Old Texican)| 8.17.10 @ 12:17PM

Doug,
That was a good one!
Now...let's nuke ...underground...the Iran nuclear effort....at the right time of course....shortly after Iran nukes New York City...or Houston refineries.

AMENBRO| 8.17.10 @ 12:52PM

REDEYE is funny as HAIL. It has a bit of an aquired taste. Some nites are far better than others, but the GREGOLOUGUE is genuine wit not hysteric reliance's on the stupidity of the AMERICAN DEMOCRAT public, Jon Boy rely's upon. The kind of insult the dumbass liberals realize the next day.

Gill O’Teen ✝✡$| 8.17.10 @ 2:03PM

There is no irony in having topless waitresses in a bar for gay followers of the religion of pieces. ‘Topless’ strictly speaking means nothing more than without a top. Only by some witty word play has it become a synonym for ‘shirtless’. When a human is standing, his or her top is strictly speaking a part of the head. I don’t think any sect of the faith in question has a problem with headless women as there seems to be a fervor for creating more and more of them on a daily basis. Admittedly, a headless waitress might have problems performing her tasks, but thanks to the Americans with Disabilities Act, it would be Gutfeld’s problem to accommodate their needs in order to get the 8,693 permits New York City probably requires for opening a business. Proving that he has some of that vision thing, Gutfeld, seeking to satisfy the needs of the 8 or 9 jihadists who actually worry about their religion’s ban on alcoholic beverages, plans to serve 72 virgin drinks. I just checked The Daily Gut [ http://www.dailygut.com/ ] and it’s possible the red eyed host plans to call his oasis The Mickey Mosque Club, but I found no link by which to contribute to its funding. He should sell shares.
Gill O’Teen ✝✡$
Don’t Tread on Me.
gill.Oteen07041776@gmail.com
“Fight them until all opposition ends and all submit to Allah.” - The Qur'an:8:39
Only 887 days to go

Grzmlyk| 8.17.10 @ 3:23PM

Reminds me of the great NY Post headline from years ago:

"Headless Body Found in Topless Bar."

True!

dernnis bausch| 8.17.10 @ 2:54PM

perhaps that block of park ave. could be renamed.
a suggestions, zion park ave.

Steve A| 8.17.10 @ 3:31PM

Open up a restaurant next door with the following menu items:
1) 5 X per day pork rinds
2) Hungry Like The Wolf?? Doran Koran Club
3) Sharia Lawless Barbecue Sandwich
4) Jihad Jalapeno Nachos
5) What The Faquir Is This?? Pot luck dish

NavyBrat| 8.17.10 @ 4:54PM

"What The Faquir Is This?? Pot luck dish"

ABSOLUTELY PRICELESS!!! Bravo, Steve A!

How bout Jihad Jerk Chicken?

The burkah burger, covered in a black pita wrap?

Mohamed Manacotti, filled with hot Italian sausage, of course!

Anyone else?

blackwatch| 8.17.10 @ 6:43PM

"The Mo-Ham-ed"sandwich--lots n lots of sliced ham on rye.

Lullabys, Legends and Lies| 8.17.10 @ 7:55PM

Steve A & Navy B: Here some more ideas for your new restaurant menu, that you might like to call: The Mujahidinner.

Haji Hash Browns
Mecca Macaroni
Medina Meatloaf
Fatwa Fries
Improvised Exploding Drumsticks (Hot Wings)
Aisha Veal (she was destroyed while she was young too)

And for Dessert:
Allah Ak-Chocolate-Bar
And Dome of the Rocky Road Ice Cream.

Gerald Stephens| 8.17.10 @ 3:56PM

What America needs is a good 10 cent cigar AND two tenacious women in as Pres and VP.

WANT TO SEE THINGS HAPPEN...try it!

The NEA should step in| 8.17.10 @ 4:41PM

Just like they did elephant dung around the Virgin Mary and had a crucifix dropped into urine, we should paint that guy that starts with an "M" on the building with pigs blood.

Then call the NEA and proclaim it art!

Voila! Historical art landmark.

John Doe| 8.17.10 @ 11:51PM

"personally insuring every single last policeman" - did he purchase an insurance policy for each of them? Please - the word is *ensure*.

Richard Baker| 8.18.10 @ 7:03AM

While in college in 1981, a group of Iranian Moslem students went around campus wearing their robes , beards, hats, and chanting about the evil America just about every day. BIG public display.
Then one day, one of my younger classmates, I was 30, came to me and told me that these "Moslems" frequented the bars and nightclubs around town and that he'd seen them drinking and carousing with the women in the area. Surprised me then but this seems to be the way many of these folks act here in
America. Islam is a warrior code similar to Bushido. God/Allah? Just a prop.

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