The American Spectator

Appleby| 7.8.10 @ 6:51AM

The same people who jeer at religion and Lourdes are positive that the horoscope in the newspaper speaks directly to them, and that they can find a wealthy, handsome, perfect spouse on eHarmony...and earnestly believe that The Bachelorette will live happily ever after.

Eric Braun| 7.8.10 @ 9:43AM

Please!

There are no miracles from God. God does not answer prayers.

Got shortness of breath and pains in your chest? Just sit there on the couch and pray to God that you do not have a heart attack, and see what happens.

I, for one, will seek medical attention.

By the way, I just love religious kitsch, and no religion is more kitschified that the Cult of Mary.

Next time I go to France, I'll pop over to Lourdes--the kitschy lala land of the ruined Roman Catholic faith.

I will not say a prayer for brilliant Christopher Hitchens, but I do wish him a rapid and complete recovery.

We need Christopher's genius to reveal the idiocy of Christian fundamentalists' poisonous, hateful beliefs.

Brock Akers| 7.8.10 @ 11:58AM

whoa. How ironic that in the same sentence you refer to "Christopher's (Hitchens) genius" and the "hateful beliefs" of Christians. Who is more hateful? I am very sad for you, Mr. Braun.

Eric Cartman| 7.8.10 @ 3:11PM

Don't feel sorry for Eric Braun! He's a straight-hating , Gay, Liberal ahole. If you think sticking various things (flashlights, cucumbers, hamsters) in certain orifices (think ahole) may be sort of sick, he pulls out the old "religion is hateful" song book and belts out a few tunes. You should have seen his pathetic web site! LOL I was hilarious!

Banjo| 7.8.10 @ 1:11PM

Is there any zeal so great as that of an atheist seeking to convert others to his belief? They usually manage to inject it into a conversation within five minutes. I'm always reminded of a cock crowing on a dung hill.

Alan Brooks| 7.8.10 @ 2:47PM

Perhaps Eric is a descendant of Eva Braun? that would explain some of it.

Anthony| 7.8.10 @ 2:48PM

Hey Eric, Will you be standing in line at Algore's Anthropogenic Global Warming theme park?
You know, the one that features an icon of the fat, bloated beast, replete with the sounds of his deep sighs and demands for sexual favors?
Maybe his famous hockey stick will be a featured item for all the woman to admire.
Come to think if it, I might go there myself; I need a good laugh at the expense of you enlightened leftists.
In other words, you all ain't got much to criticize the Lourdes crowd about, now do you? Delusion works both sides of the same street.

alexandra Greeley| 7.8.10 @ 4:01PM

You are a very sad and sorrowful person, and I feel tremendous pity for someone who can condemn Christianity, Catholicism, as fraudulent. Having just been to Lourdes a few months ago and also being an ardent Catholic, I was moved by the power of faith and prayers. I believe and so should you....

Bubba| 7.8.10 @ 6:04PM

Mr. Braun, I'd only ask you if you have examined belief in Christ in a dispassionate way, or with the desire to accommodate your own desires/behavior? Until I was honest about this question, it was easy to define my own reality.

I'll offer one example for your thoughtful consideration, in as syllogistic a fashion as I can:
1. A Jewish prophet, Amos, prophesied that there would be an earthquake and the sun would be darkened at noon. Some scholars see this as an indicator of Christ's death. Not essential, but intriguing, given 3. - 6.
2. The Septuagint was translated before Christ's birth, meaning the words of Amos were not crafted a posteriori.
3. At the time of Christ's death, the synoptic gospels record an earthquake and darkness over the land for 3 hrs.
4. Roman historians Thallus and Phlegon record this as an (extraordinarily long) eclipse.
5. Julius Africanus and Eusebius of Alexandra, about 200 years later, figure out this "eclipse" could not have been a solar eclipse since the crucifixion occurred at Passover, which is always on a full moon.
6. Eclipses are physically impossible on a full moon.

Something to ponder... it either was dark, or it wasn't. If it was, what caused it?

I would also ask how the bible got the order of creation right (looking at cosmology, geological strata) or, unique from any other holy book, talks about a 'time before time' instead of an infinitely existent universe, as general relativity and infinite regress both entail.

Again, something to ponder. Like you, I wish Hitchens the best; there is still time for both of you to reconsider.

Nancita| 7.12.10 @ 9:37PM

He will not "say a prayer" but he will "wish?" Wonder if Eric (or was that Eva?) Braun thinks that will make any difference. I'll ask my New Age psychic what she thinks. And my Buddhist guru to confirm. Then I'll hunker down with my crystals and meditate on whether or not Eric (or was that Erica?) believes in anti-matter.

Deborah Knefel| 7.8.10 @ 12:29PM

Well said Appleby and so unfortunately true.

bomboolay| 7.8.10 @ 2:18PM

Eric your a fool..you must be pitied for you represent the village idiot. pitied.. thats what you deserve..

Alan Brooks| 7.8.10 @ 2:43PM

The French are wise, then-- they aren't just about advancing against the Wehrmacht in the opposite direction from the attack.

The French deep down know that Man cannot live by bread and cheese alone.

Alan Brooks| 7.8.10 @ 2:44PM

... or even good wine.

Justine Womble| 7.8.10 @ 9:15PM

Hey, American Spectator Readers,

A little news from your beloved, right-wing, orthodox Roman Catholic movie man--Mel Gibson, wife-beater (knocked two of her teeth out) and profane racist.

From the NY Post:

Mel Gibson is being investigated over domestic abuse allegations made by the actor's estranged Russian lover, Oksana Grigorieva, the Los Angeles County Sheriff's Department announced Thursday.

The Post then quotes Mel "talking" to his wife.

"You look like a f***ing pig in heat. If you get raped by a pack of n*****s, it will be your fault," Gibson was recorded as saying.

I swear, you right-wing, fundamentalist Christians just kill me.

Toto| 7.8.10 @ 9:19PM

Mel Gibson? The Passion of the Christ?

Doesn't surprise me one bit.

Right-wing Christians are not just hateful; they are hate-filled.

Read some of their remarks here on this page, and you will feel the hate!

Tony in Central PA| 7.8.10 @ 9:31PM

Saying Mel Gibson is an authentic representative of Catholic Christians is almost like saying the same thing about Josef Stalin and atheists.

QuoVadisAnima| 7.9.10 @ 12:49AM

So you thought only left-wing fundamentalist atheists were sinners?

It's pretty common knowledge at this point that Mel Gibson has a long-standing drinking problem & that he is one of those whom alcohol makes a mean drunk. It is ugly and it is tragic - but how does his weakness become representative of his religion rather than his failure to live up to it?

Christians recognize that we are ALL sinners & fall short; leftists believe there is no such thing as sin - except for that of being a devout Christian...

Appleby| 7.10.10 @ 7:30PM

I was a mean drunk when I was young, and it was God Who saved my life, my reason and my relationship with my family -- but He cannot do anything without our willing cooperation. God does not force anything on anybody. *Knock,* says Jesus *and it will be opened to you. Seek, and ye shall find.* In plain English that means you have to get off the couch before those riches will be afforded to you.

I went to Bible College in the Sixties, and one of our favourite stories was about the man who prayed every night, *Oh, God, when will I win the Irish Sweepstakes?* [This was way before lotteries.] Night after night he prayed this prayer. And then one night came a booming voice from Above: *Oh Man,* it inquired, *when will you buy a ticket?*

Over to you, Eric.

Nancita| 7.12.10 @ 9:40PM

Hey! Just think if we were fundamentalist Islamists. Then we really would kill you!

jd| 7.8.10 @ 7:03AM

Ugh, not another article for the Catholic bashers to respond to! By the end of the day you'll see all the familiarly-named bigots deploring idol worshipping and the cult of Mary. Faith is something you feel and cannot explain, so leave the believers alone!

WRTolkas| 7.8.10 @ 1:10PM

Faith:

Belief in the adequacy of the evidence.

Margie| 7.8.10 @ 3:05PM

Yeah jd,

Already with the bigot card, eh, jd?
And we'll see the holier-than-thous like you bashing those of us who don't happen to believe the Catholic Religion and its false doctrines, won't we now?
To you a bigot is one who "deplores idol worship."
To a Christian who lives according to the Bible, it is to be deplored. I therefore wear your label of bigot most happily and humbly.

"Therefore, my beloved, shun the worship of idols." 1 Cor. 10:14.
"You know that when you were heathen, you were led astray to dumb idols, however you may have been moved." 1 Cor. 12:2.
"What agreement has the temple of God with idols? For we are the temple of the living God; as God said, "I will live in them and move among them, and I will be their God, and they shall be my people." 2 Cor. 6:16.
"For they themselves report concerning us what a welcome we had among you, and how you turned to God from idols, to serve a living and true God." 1 Thess. 1:9.
"Little children, keep yourselves from idols." 1 Jn. 5:21.
"The rest of mankind, who were not killed by these plagues, did not repent of the works of their hands nor give up worshiping demons and idols of gold and silver and bronze and stone and wood, which cannot either see or hear or walk; nor did they repent of their murders or their sorceries or their immorality or their thefts." Rev. 9:20 & 21.

Alan Brooks| 7.8.10 @ 3:45PM

Why are Catholic idols any worse-- in the overall sense of sin-- than, say, 'speaking in tongues'?

I was brought up on anti-Catholic propaganda, but it isn't convincing anymore.

Margie| 7.8.10 @ 3:56PM

The Bible says idols, period, and is quite specific as you can see, above. Any Religion, or person who says it is OK, is lying.

And the Bible isn't propaganda.

QuoVadisAnima| 7.8.10 @ 5:16PM

"The Church absolutely recognizes and condemns the sin of idolatry. What anti-Catholics fail to recognize is the distinction between thinking a piece of stone or plaster is a god and desiring to visually remember Christ and the saints in heaven by making statues in their honor. The making and use of religious statues is a thoroughly biblical practice. Anyone who says otherwise doesn’t know his Bible."
More at
http://www.catholic.com/librar.....tatues.asp

Margie| 7.8.10 @ 5:28PM

I will stick to the above Bible verses, and take them seriously, despite your deceit.

jd| 7.8.10 @ 6:37PM

There she goes again. "Deceit"! "Lies"! Your typical response to anybody who challenges you is really getting old, Margie. You really should say an Act of Contrition.

Margie| 7.8.10 @ 6:52PM

Yes, jd. It is deceit. You disagree with the Bible?

Appleby| 7.10.10 @ 7:36PM

But a statue of Mary, or Jesus, or St. Vincent de Paul, is no more an *idol* than a photo of the Jonas Brothers is an idol. Or, for that matter, than a photo of your grandchildren is an idol.

And we Catholics do not Worship the Saints. We ask for their prayers just as we ask for prayers from our friends, our sisters and brothers, and our priests. They were people like us once; they understand and they are closer to God than we are. Think of being in the hospital and asking your friend to call your mother and tell her you survived and will be home in three days. Would you call that Worshipping your friend?

People who cannot understand plain English should read People Magazine and leave the Bible for adults.

jd| 7.8.10 @ 4:11PM

Yep, I knew by the end of the day good ole, Bible verse touting Margie would spew her hate of Catholics. You have nerve calling me holier then thou when YOU are always posting Catholic bashing RANTS. The hypocrite in you always likes to quote Bible verses on the one hand, yet you always post hate-filled rants against Catholics. Like one blogger on a previous post said, you really do need psychological help dealing with some deep-seated issues that you have. God Bless.

Margie| 7.8.10 @ 4:20PM

Your post is filled with lies, as usual. I hope you repent. But if you don't, your sin will find you out.

jd| 7.8.10 @ 6:33PM

You always throw the accusation of "lies". Just what have I lied about? You cry for respect on this blog yet you show such intolerance of other people's beliefs, especially Catholics. Like I've said before you talk the talk but do not walk the walk. To me you personify the Bible verse touting hypocrite. Now I'll say a Hail Mary for you.

Margie| 7.8.10 @ 6:51PM

Uh, do I really have to spell it out, jd?
1. That I'm a bigot.
2. That I'm a hypocrite.
3. That I'm "hate" filled.
3. That I need psych help.

And please, don't bother praying to Mary. She's dead.

QuoVadisAnima| 7.8.10 @ 7:03PM

Mark 12 [27] "He is not God of the dead, but of the living; you are quite wrong."

Margie| 7.8.10 @ 7:09PM

Huh? Mary did die. She IS dead. God did not raise her from the dead. Stick to the Bible, now.

Alexandra| 7.8.10 @ 7:16PM

Good grief, Margie: she is in Heaven with her Son, Jesus...

Margie| 7.8.10 @ 7:25PM

Good grief Alexandra,

Mary did not die on the cross for our sins, therefore she is powerless. And again, the dead can't hear you. Until the resurrection of our new bodies in Heaven, according to the Bible, do we take on the likeness of Christ. Even then, God gave NO ONE the authority or the ABILITY to hear our prayers.
Read your Bible, if you care to, otherwise be deluded, along with the rest.

John 5:25~ ""Truly, truly, I say to you, the hour is coming, and now is, when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God, and those who hear will live."

If the dead cannot even hear the voice of God until Jesus comes back, how can they hear yours? It is preposterous!

Alexandra| 7.8.10 @ 8:09PM

Margie, actually, Mary isn't just any dead person, she is the Mother of God, which puts her is a somewhat different category than just being human. Besides, like her Son, Jesus, whose body has never been found because He is in Heaven, neither has hers.... because she is in Heaven with her son....

Margie| 7.8.10 @ 8:16PM

It isn't Biblical to say Mary is the Mother of God. Jesus called God His Father. Jesus is the Son of God. Mary was only Jesus' physical Mother on this Earth. Not the Mother of God. God Himself has no Mother. He has always been, all eternity and no one gave birth to God.

Richard A| 7.9.10 @ 9:01AM

May I call her "Mother of my Lord"?

Alexandra| 7.9.10 @ 5:01PM

Margie: well, if Mary isn't the mother of Jesus, then who on earth is she?? Since Jesus is part of the Trinity (with God and the Holy Spirit) seems to me she is the mother of God. Just stands to logic, and of course, the Bible says so....

QuoVadisAnima| 7.8.10 @ 8:11PM

Margie, slow down & consider what is written before you respond so that you don't embarrass yourself further - I just quoted Scripture.

The Lord Himself tells us that He is the God of the living not the dead - so how can anyone be with Him & be dead?

Margie| 7.8.10 @ 8:18PM

Read John 5:25 and deal with it. I have.

QuoVadisAnima| 7.8.10 @ 8:43PM

You cannot deal with John 5:25 outside of its context - and the Lord was not talking about His 2nd Coming there, but about His Resurrection. Well, He has risen! Halleluia! And so the dead have heard the voice of the Son of God and now live!

Just before verse 25, Our Lord said:
John 5 [24] Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears my word and believes him who sent me, has eternal life; he does not come into judgment, but has passed from death to life.

God is the source of life - no one can be with Him and be "dead".

Margie| 7.8.10 @ 9:02PM

"For the Lord Himself will descend from Heaven with a cry of command, with the archangel's call, and with the sound of the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first; then we who are alive, who are left, shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air; and so we shall always be with the Lord." 2 Thess. 4:16&17;.

The dead are obviously risen at His return. So you have been proven wrong.
Next.

QuoVadisAnima| 7.8.10 @ 9:33PM

Contextually, the verses you cite are clearly referring to those who have passed on in relation to those who are still on earth. What would you have Paul write, "the alive shall rise first; then we who are alive..." It is like claiming that Scripture "proves" geocentrism because of passages that refer to the sun rising or setting - some word usage is colloquial.

You can keep cherry-picking Scripture, but the fact is that Mark 12:27 addresses this issue fairly directly. Because by your argument, Isaac, Jacob & Abraham are all dead, too - yet the Lord very clearly says they are not.

Margie| 7.8.10 @ 10:09PM

No kidding, genius. The point is, the Scripture PROVES that the dead cannot hear. They cannot be prayed to. Wake up and repent!

Jesus Himself is the ONLY One who can hear our prayers. All else is a lie.

"Jesus said to him, "I am the Way, and the Truth, and the Liife; no one comes to the Father, but by Me." Jn. 14:6.

Now try and pervert that one, if you can. Never mind, I'm not interested in seeing you sin again.

Good evening.

QuoVadisAnima| 7.9.10 @ 12:14AM

Don't you see that simply brings us back to what difference does it make that the dead cannot hear if the living can - Which John 5 tells us that "the hour is coming, AND NOW IS, when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God, and those who hear will live." So those who have died and are now with Christ are alive in Him. Full circle. The verses have to be looked at as a whole - exegetically not pretextually.

Meanwhile, who is the "cloud of witnesses" in Hebrews 12:1? (Hint: see the verses just before this one)

Richard A| 7.9.10 @ 9:05AM

Then how is it that the elders around the throne are able to present the prayers of the saints as incense before God? They have voices to praise the Lamb on the throne, but not ears to hear the prayers they are presenting to Him?

Margie| 7.8.10 @ 8:38PM

It all comes down to this. Do you want to be Biblical? If you want to please God, you will want to be. I want to be Biblical. That is what I stake my eternal life on. You can call me hateful if you wish. I will be a bigot for the Truth, then.

I will not play games with what the Bible clearly says. I will not add things to it nor will I take anything away.

Each person has to make the decision. Do you want to be Biblical?

Richard A| 7.9.10 @ 9:07AM

Actually, I stake my eternal life on Jesus Christ died and risen from the dead. Happily, we have the Church and the Bible to bear witness to that truth.

Margie| 7.8.10 @ 7:12PM

Since you can't, I will:

"And there is salvation in no one else, for there is no other Name under Heaven given among men by which we must be saved." Acts 4:12.

Tony in Central PA| 7.8.10 @ 9:41PM

Margie, if Christians didn't have a canonical Bible until sometime in the fifth century, what do you suppose all those Christians did during that time ? By what authority was it decided which writings made it into the Canon ?
I'm an adult convert to Catholicism, and one of the major flaws in reasoning I always found about many " Bible - centric " Christians is that they apprently believe that when Jesus ascended after the Resurrection, he left the Apostles with a book, instead of starting the Church.

A good friend of mine from my RCIA class ( exFundamentalist ) said that it occurred to him one day that many Bible - centric Christians actually practice their own form of idolatry using the Bible itself ; interpreting it individually to suit their own immediate desires divorced from anything resembling actual history or accurate theology.

Margie| 7.8.10 @ 10:57PM

It's simple. Jesus saved me in my youth, gave me the Holy Spirit, and drew me near to Him. It was His mercy, by Grace, through the speck of what I must have had of faith.

The Bible was written by men moved by the Holy Spirit, and when you get regenerated from above, by His Spirit, the Bible says that you can see as God sees. It is greater than a miracle having your "eyes enlightened."

For that person to say that Christians practice idolatry by following the Bible I think is absurd. If he himself left the Bible's teaching to follow Catholicism I'd say he is the one that needs to watch out for that!

God did give us the Bible and it is what Christians use as spiritual food. Like it says,
"All scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness, that the man of God may be complete, equipped for every good work." 2 Tim. 3:16 & 17.

Whoever interprets the Bible to suit their own desires has a price to pay. The Bible is its own interpreter. Every single verse can be referenced with another, the Old Testament with the New. It proves itself true and correct and so it isn't a matter of one's own interpretation.

"First of all you must understand this, that no prophecy of scripture is a matter of one's own interpretation, because no prophecy ever came by the impulse of man, but men moved by the Holy Spirit spoke from God." 1 Pe. 1:20 & 21.

Without the Holy Spirit, it's all darkness to those who read it. When you have a Religion who conveniently makes things up that aren't there to begin with, that Religion is darkness. This is why I will stick to the Bible itself, and go nowhere else.

QuoVadisAnima| 7.9.10 @ 1:12AM

Your verse is from 2nd Peter 1:20 & 21 not 1st.
Look at the context - read vs 19 - St Peter is saying that Scripture (referring to OT Scripture since the NT wasn't written yet) is not for us each to interpret individually, but that their understanding & knowledge of Christ in the OT was given them by the Holy Spirit apostolically. How much clearer could Peter have written it? "No prophecy of Scripture is a matter of one's own interpretation"

You doubt, no doubt, but Scripture itself warns that it is not self-interpreting:

2 Pet 3
[15]So also our beloved brother Paul wrote to you according to the wisdom given him,
[16] speaking of this as he does in all his letters. ***There are some things in them hard to understand, which the ignorant and unstable twist to their own destruction, as they do the other scriptures.***

Acts 8
[30] So Philip ran to him, and heard him reading Isaiah the prophet, and asked, "Do you understand what you are reading?"
[31] And he said, ***"How can I, unless some one guides me?" ***

So it's not just a matter of reading Scripture, but also a matter of who you choose to accept as your guide.

And for some reason at this point, I am reminded of the old proverb that "a man who is his own lawyer has a fool for a client" - wonder why that could be? Hmm, what if we substituted "lawyer" with ...? ;-)

Margie| 7.9.10 @ 1:43AM

Pervert. It does NOT say, "Given to them "apostolically." Keep twisting the Bible, to your own detriment.

And yes, "How can I unless someone guides me." Someone that would also have to have the Holy Spirit. Which comes from GOD, not MAN.

You don't even speak in Scriptures, but you have just added to them, and created your own twisted human point of view.

I'll stick to what the Bible actually says, not your perverting of it.

QuoVadisAnima| 7.10.10 @ 2:18AM

No, it does not say "apostolically" - but then a careful re-reading of my post would make it clear to you that I did not claim that it did. I simply pointed out the context of the verse.

Yes, we agree on something at least - the teaching authority comes from God NOT man. Scripture shows us fairly clearly to whom this authority was given.

The Lord anointed His apostles and promised them the guidance of the Holy Spirit to protect them from doctrinal error so that not even the gates of hell would prevail against His Church. (Mt 16:18 - and btw, vs 19 is where the Lord gave stewardship of His Davidic Kingdom to Peter in the symbolic reference to the keys along with the authority to bind & loose as was prophesied in Is 22:22)

Why didn't Jesus anoint all of His disciples as leaders of His Church if all were to be equals in teaching & interpreting? (Which Scripture tells us was never the Lord's intention - 1 Cor 12:29)

Why would He bother selecting 12 of His followers to lead His Church after He was ascended and then allow everyone to be their own guide once the 12 were gone if that was His plan? (Which, btw, Scripture shows us in Acts 1 that the apostolic offices did not end with the death of the original holder because in Acts we see the apostles give Matthias the place that was held by Judas)

Scripture tells us that the Lord intended His Church to have a heirarchy - 1Cor.12
[28] And God has appointed in the church first apostles, second prophets, third teachers, then workers of miracles, then healers, helpers, administrators, speakers in various kinds of tongues.

Notice that the apostles were the ones who appointed leaders for the Church in every location.
Acts 14 [23] And when they had appointed elders for them in every church, with prayer and fasting they committed them to the Lord in whom they believed.
Titus 1 [5] This is why I left you in Crete, that you might amend what was defective, and appoint elders in every town as I directed you,

Even when the brethren picked out men themselves, those still had to receive their appointment from the apostles:
Acts 6 [3] Therefore, brethren, pick out from among you seven men of good repute, full of the Spirit and of wisdom, whom we may appoint to this duty.

In fact, many bishops in the Catholic Church have a "family tree" in their diocesan office tracing the line of their anointing all the way back to the original Twelve. So at least they can point to their authority to lead & guide the Church in Scripture - can you? Can your pastor?

The Bible you reverence came from the Catholic Church - Martin Luther acknowledged it to be so even as he attempted to justify his desire to remake Scripture in his own image of what it should be - and was passed on thru the ages by Catholic religious who protected it, many with their lives, and laboriously copied it over & over again so that the Word could be spread throughout the world.

Is it not a tad audacious to claim to know it better than those who passed it on to you? Particularly when that same Holy Book tells you that the Lord Himself chose who would lead the Church till He returns and shows how those offices would be passed on?

Jeremiah| 7.8.10 @ 9:06AM

The Omnipotent God created the laws of nature and is Master of them. He is all truth and tells us to seek Him with all our mind, body and spirit.

Faith and Reason are the two fundamental means He gave us to approach truth. Thus, while there are many apparent contradictions between faith and reason there are no actual contradictions.

Some people of faith have been guilty of the sin of pretending to know the mind of God. So they make absurd pronouncements, say that God told them and that that should end it. This has bred contempt among many secular people for faith and how it is properly exercised.

Most men of sciende are guilty of a profound temporal provincialism. They identify an incomplete set of natural laws, decree that all phenomenon must fit into their rickety framework and studiously ignore what they can't explain. Their hubris and occasional willful ignorance inspires contempt for them among the faithful.

This article is well-timed. God has been leaving us to our own devices for a few years to let us see just how sufficient to ourselves we actually are. It is not pretty. But the day is coming very soon when He speaks and intervenes for all to hear and see. Then faith and science will be restored to their proper roles - means to approach the throne of truth. And Lourdes will be one of the sites from which we hear His authentic voice.

Frog In Uniform| 7.8.10 @ 9:18AM

The body of Bernadette Soubirous is visible in the Nevers convent where she died in 1925. It has not been tampered with or embalmed in any way. Even the hardcore commies who investigated the matter couldn't find any explanation.
http://s1.e-monsite.com/2008/0.....us-jpg.jpg

Doctor Right| 7.8.10 @ 9:57AM

Why would you embalm wax???

Richard| 7.8.10 @ 9:24AM

I was intrigued by your first four, very astute paragraphs. In the last you say, "...the day is coming very soon when He speaks and intervenes for all to hear and see." I draw your attention to another of your statements in paragraph 3: "Some people of faith have been guilty of the sin of pretending to know the mind of God."

rodeoamy| 7.8.10 @ 10:42AM

Revelation 22:12 - "Behold, I am coming soon! My reward is with me, and I will give to everyone according to what he has done. I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End."

Richard| 7.8.10 @ 12:40PM

You make the common and unprovable assumption that God has anything to do with that book, or any book, in the collection anonymous writings known as the bible.

rodeoamy| 7.8.10 @ 1:12PM

Yes, it is by faith that I believe the bible is of God. (I wouldn't try to "prove" it - at leas not in this setting.) My point was that perhaps Jeremiah was not relying on his own opinion (or trying to know the mind of God), but rather was relying on scripture - which, as you point out, is commonly believed to be the word of God, wherein he reveals his plan to us.

Mark| 7.8.10 @ 5:33PM

And you make the common and unprovable assumption that God does not have any thing to do with that book.

Frog In Uniform| 7.8.10 @ 9:26AM

The first time I went to see her, I was really moved: she seems to be sleeping peacefully and about to wake up at any moment. Knowing the tragic situation of my country, it seems unavoidable that the convent will be one of the first casualties, should a civil war, Bosnia or Kosovo style, erupt between muslims and Christians. Time to check my gear.
If you happen to visit France, spend an hour in Nevers. God Bless America.

Doctor Right| 7.8.10 @ 9:30AM

...And Catholics persist in saying that they don't worship Mary...

What's to explain this? Self-delusion? Mass hypnosis?

Either way, it's disturbing.

Tim*| 7.8.10 @ 5:53PM

Aaaand , you're disturbed Doctor Reich.

Frog In Uniform| 7.8.10 @ 9:38AM

Well, it's a Catholic thing, you protestants wouldn't understand... We can't just call the Mother of Jesus, Mary instead of Saint Mary. If you ever meet my Mom, better call her Madame.

Frog In Uniform| 7.8.10 @ 9:43AM

... and we do not mean to disturb. Your education makes you feel disturbed by what we are and what we believe.

Doctor Right| 7.8.10 @ 9:53AM

You are correct.

My education as a Christian DOES makes me feel disturbed by what Catholics believe.

That's because they're teaching ERROR to hundreds of millions of people, many of who do not have the education themselves to see through the nonsense.

I understand it well. It's about POWER.

QuoVadisAnima| 7.8.10 @ 12:32PM

To those who honestly wish to understand, visit Catholic.com for an explanation of Catholic beliefs & teachings.

To those contending with "Doctor Right" whose posting name alone speaks volumes about the righteousness & fruit of his beliefs, I would remind my brethren of TITUS 3:
9 Avoid foolish arguments, genealogies, rivalries, and quarrels about the law, for they are useless and futile.
10 After a first and second warning, break off contact with a heretic,
11 realizing that such a person is perverted and sinful and stands self-condemned.

Doctor Right| 7.8.10 @ 12:36PM

Yes, by ALL means, everybody...If you want a TRULY unbiased look at the Catholic Faith...

...Then visit a CATHOLIC WEBSITE!!!!

LOL! Now go sell crazy someplace else...

QuoVadisAnima| 7.8.10 @ 1:18PM

If you want to know what a conservative really believes, would you consult a liberal website?

Doctor Right| 7.8.10 @ 3:36PM

I know full well what Catholics believe. I was one for 32 years. I saw the nonsense close-up.

Alexandra | 7.8.10 @ 6:46PM

Dr. Right/Wrong, you are not at all well catechized.....

Gingadecorgi| 7.8.10 @ 3:50PM

Dr. Right is Dr. wrong.

Tim*| 7.8.10 @ 5:55PM

Yes Indeed , Anti-Catholic Twerp , you're definitely disturbed.

Jeremiah| 7.8.10 @ 9:50AM

Very pointed and on target, Richard. I accept your accurate criticism. Even so, I do not withdraw my last paragraph.

In my defense I say that I do not pretend to know the Mind of God, but that nonetheless, one may judge by the signs of the times and one may, through direction, understand aspects of what is happening. I took the name of a prophet on these boards for a reason, even though I usually comment on secular matters.

I am one of those crazies - I do have frequent locutions. Unlike most, I have kept them quiet except to submit them in writing to certain Church authorities over the last 15 years (though they have been going on for 45 years).

When I first submitted, during a time when there was nothing but peace and prosperity as far as the eye could see, I wrote with great specificity about events of the last nine years - and of events yet to come. An archivist keeps the original writings in another state.

We have come to believe we are sufficient to ourselves, that we are the masters of the universe. The events unwinding right now are designed to show us where we end when left to our own devices. But it is not to punish us. God calls all men to salvation. It is to reclaim us to eternity. And the dark storm ahead will lead to a great rebirth of peace, freedom and real brotherhood - and it will happen before this decade is out.

I once hoped that all my dark musing could remain confidential, useful only to the priests in authority who examined them. I now believe that having written with such specificity about current events that it will be a great comfort to people to see and believe that I tell the truth when I tell them that the current trials, which are going to get much darker, is not the end, but the beginning.

So I claim to be a prophet. Not to know the mind of God, just conveying little pieces I am directed to. All such claims should be met with great skepticism, for almost all are deception or delusion. The proof, ultimately, is in the pudding - or as the Master would say, "You shall know a tree by the fruit it bears."

So I think I am right in what I say - and that you are right and just in your criticism of it.

Jermiah| 7.8.10 @ 10:01AM

Oh...a minor flaw of this site is that it does not require registered user names. In the course of a heated debate some months ago, another 'Jeremiah' appeared. While I occasionally debate vigorously, I am never nasty, use obscenities, engage in personal insults or treat others with condescension. So if a Jeremiah appears that does, it ain't me.

Doctor Right| 7.8.10 @ 11:22AM

Exactly how many of your "locutions" have come to fruition?

And be specific...Waxing on about "wars and rumors of wars" is NOT exactly prophetic, is it?

Jeremiah| 7.8.10 @ 12:16PM

You are most assuredly correct, Dr. Right. But describing the rise of large-scale terror as the primary instrument of an assymetrical war, notying specifically the flashpoint that is North Korea, saying that something was so wrong with the 2000 election that there might not be an election at all, noting that our relations with Russia were going to warm, than sour terribly again before settling in to where they will end up being our most steadfast ally during the fury of the storm - and first doing this in 1995. That's a little tip of things.

I appreciate your reaction. I trust it more than anyone giving quick credulity. Frankly, it took 40 years to persuade me that I didn't have some sort of neurological anomaly that did me no real harm and gave me great intuitiveness. There is too much, though.

Actually, I am not concerned with credulity right now. I wrote all these wild things down starting 15 years ago thinking, if it is true it is true and there will be work to be done. If not, I can quit worrying about these fevers.

What I am concerned about now is that, as things spiral downward, diplomatically, economically, militarily, I see many people very fearful, thinking this is the end and worrying about the wrong things - who is the Antichrist, blah, blah blah. I want to tell people it is not the end - to dig deeper and see God's mercy beginning to move on mankind - saving souls for eternity. I want them to quit trying to find secret codes and secret knowledge from the Bible that they think will exempt them from the troubles we have begun to see. We are all together - God calls all men to salvation. The only secret that is necessary is to live each day well and with regard to those around you, recognizing and calling on God's guidance.

It troubles me that so many who call themselves Christians speak so angrily and lay claim to a much broader knowledge of His will than I would ever dream of, even after having been instructed for so many decades.

As for the proofs, they are there and will be pulled out if the times demand them. Even now, I would prefer to be wrong. If they must be pulled out eventually, it will be to comfort people about what God's purpose is - not to provide evidence of an interesting spectacle.

Doctor Right| 7.8.10 @ 12:43PM

So let me get this straight...

You consider yourself somewhat "prophetic" (locutions, right..?) because you predicted:

1. The rise of terrorism as an instrument of policy?
2. That North Korea is a troublesome place?
3. That US elections may not be above-board?
4. That "relations with Russia" would cyclically improve and worsen?

I'm sorry, but that's not "prophecy"...That's nothing more than common knowledge gained by a regular reading of the daily news.

Personally, I could have predicted this stuff in the 8th grade, and probably did, too.

I'm sure that your local Monsignor. having received your many prophetic tomes over the past 15 years has given them the full weight according their due...And carefully stored them away in the circular file.

That's not prophecy. That's delusion.
5.

Frog In Uniform| 7.8.10 @ 10:22AM

Don't worry, Jeremiah, we can see the difference. As far as I'm concerned a little bit of obscenity and rudeness does the trick, especially when confronting obnoxious liberal a-holes (double pleonasm here.) After all we're just Catholics, we do not claim to be perfect. And you're right, this site definitely needs some sort of registration. Eric Braun would make the trip to Lourdes, just to insult disabled Catholics... Dumb liberal fag, no wonder he voted Obama.

Dixie Pixie| 7.8.10 @ 10:23AM

OK, I give up.
Why is it wrong to have a religious theme park.

If Harry Potter can have a theme park, why not the Catholics or the Baptists.
Is there some natural law that says only the seculars can only have fun.
Who made up that rule and why?

murph| 7.8.10 @ 1:28PM

Because Harry Potter's theme park doesn't attract people with the promise that it can cure the lame and the sick.

If Lourdes was merely a place of pilgrimage, it would be just as you say a religious theme park.

But the shrine has made findings of "miracles" that suggest that the faithful can be cured there.

True, Lourdes isn't unlike Vegas in promoting its exceptions and profiting off the rest - but Vegas is criticized even more than Lourdes is.

Dixie Pixie| 7.8.10 @ 2:23PM

Thank you Murph for your viewpoint.

However I think you missed my point.
I was reacting to the first sentence of the article.

In that sentence the author implies there is a negative connotation to religious styled theme parks.
I disagree with on only that point.

I don't see why a religious style would automatically have a negative connotation.
So I ask, why not enjoy a religious theme park, if one existed.
Why not build one.
After all there are more religious people than secular people.

My point does not touch on Lourdes as a religious institution.
I have never been there and so I will comment on it.
I have heard it is very nice and miracles have occurred there.

murph| 7.13.10 @ 2:23PM

In that case, I'd agree there is no negative connotation to having a religious theme park.

I'd argue the author of this article is trying to pretend there is - so they can perpetuate the myth of religious victimhood - and have a subject for a column.

Which is pretty weak.

Sandra| 7.8.10 @ 10:25AM

The Church limits what is classified as a "Miracle," while stationed in Germany I participated in several pilgrimages to the Shrine of Lourdes and seen more than one person with real distress and problems in their lives come away "healed". And this healing was not for a day or two either. But, that does not constitute a "miracle."

At worse, you pray, you attend more masses in a short amount of time, you take a "dip" in the frigid waters from the spring (not too bad when the temps are in the 90s) and drink and eat some very good food, and walk. It's the perfect resort vacation.

The real miracles are not medical ones, but then there would be no stories to write.

Rosalee| 7.8.10 @ 2:18PM

**nods**
God works miracles every day, e.g. the little four year old who was kidnapped in Missouri. It was not an Amber Alert, it was God's intervention.......
He does not need man to complete His miracles nor does He need a special location. I could never understand the hysteria surrounding these sites and I am a cradle Catholic.............

QuoVadisAnima| 7.8.10 @ 2:37PM

Just curious - do you see nothing special about a pilgrimage to the Holy Land either?

Rosalee| 7.8.10 @ 2:58PM

It is indeed special but for the church to overshadow its significance by placing its stamp on it, e.g. the last pope spoke of a plenary indulgence if someone went to the Holy Land, is what is hard for me to accept.......
Can it not just be seen and experienced as a visit to where Christ spent time while on Earth? That should be its significance and was for me. I also cannot understand the need to build just HUGE edifices..............He was a simple Person who called us to simplicity not HUGE exhibits of our faith, so must man once again add something to it e.g. the pronouncement by the last pope?
It reminds me of when He addressed the Jewish hierarchy and how they added to the law, weighing the people down needlessly.

QuoVadisAnima| 7.8.10 @ 4:00PM

Yet, the Lord Himself ordained the construction of the Ark of the Covenant & the building of the Temple in Jerusalem both of which were liberally slathered with gold & ornamentation - the Ark specifically covered so by His command - and both received God's blessing for it once completed.

Consider Ch. 1 of Haggai - esp v. 8&9 - and Mark 14:1-9. The fact that Judas criticized the "wasteful" extravagance of a devout woman's gift to the Lord while Jesus defended the fittingness of her gift should be enough to give one pause for (re)consideration here.

And an indulgence is a gift from the Church to her children to encourage them in their spiritual journey - it seems very odd that anyone would resent that? Or prideful to essentially proclaim that you don't need any help.

But your understanding of indulgences is likely tainted by the hyping of sinful scandals by some members of the Church during the time of Luther. At least, that's what your comment comparing the Church to the Pharisees hints at - that your thinking has been influenced by protestantism.

As a cradle Catholic who once left the Church due to ignorance and returned after learning what the Church teaches from her own words rather than the twisted version I'd been given previously, I would encourage you to actually spend some time exploring why the Church teaches & acts as she does - catholic.com has an extensive library as well as forums where you can learn more about the faith.

Rosalee| 7.8.10 @ 9:05PM

the Lord Himself ordained the construction of the Ark of the Covenant & the building of the Temple in Jerusalem
xxxxxx

Yes and it originated from God, not devised by man e.g. the HUGE edifices............

The fact that Judas criticized the "wasteful" extravagance
xxxxxxxx

I think it is presumptuous of you to assume I am like Judas by my comments about the expenditures. You have no knowledge of who I am and what I stand for, so please don't read something into my statement.
My thinking has not been influenced pride or by the protestant movement, but by reading scripture.
Perhaps instead of spending so much time on Catholic.com, you ought to spend sometime in scripture.

QuoVadisAnima| 7.8.10 @ 10:19PM

Is there not some degree of presumption in assuming that I spend more time at catholic.com than I do reading Scripture?

Now, you are the one who identified yourself as a cradle Catholic, so my expectations of you are nothing more than that which you put forth about yourself. Would you not question a man who claims to be Amish and uses a cellphone? What is unreasonable about expecting someone who identifies themselves as Catholic to know their faith as their own Church teaches it? Why call yourself a Catholic if your beliefs are more akin to one of the Lutheran branches as I once was and many modern Catholics are, for example?

At any rate, you seem to be reading more into my comment than what was intended. I was not saying that you are like Judas - I was saying that the fact that your critique echoes something he said should be enough to raise a "caution" flag.

Scripture is read by all stripes of Jews, Protestants, and Catholics - and even Jim Jones & David Koresh cultists - what you "see" in there depends on what your perspective is as well as what your preconceived expectations are.

Scripture itself warns that it is not self-interpreting:

2 Pet 3
[15]So also our beloved brother Paul wrote to you according to the wisdom given him,
[16] speaking of this as he does in all his letters. There are some things in them hard to understand, which the ignorant and unstable twist to their own destruction, as they do the other scriptures.

Acts 8
[30] So Philip ran to him, and heard him reading Isaiah the prophet, and asked, "Do you understand what you are reading?"
[31] And he said, "How can I, unless some one guides me?"

So it's not just a matter of reading Scripture, but also a matter of who you choose to accept as your guide.

Margie| 7.9.10 @ 9:22AM

"Scripture is read by all stripes of Jews, Protestants, and Catholics - and even Jim Jones & David Koresh cultists - what you "see" in there depends on what your perspective is as well as what your preconceived expectations are."

Another bald faced lie from the Catholic Troll. Maybe that's what YOU do, but it isn't what Christians do. We accept the Bible word for word, and do not twist it to suit a doctrine, as Catholicism does.

What a lie! Because it is what you do, do not assign that falsity to others.

Therefore 2 Peter 3:16 is talking about YOU!

Eric Braun| 7.8.10 @ 10:26AM

Hey Frog, in your sorry excuse for a country I would have voted Sarkozy and I would gladly be blowing muslims.

Frog In Uniform| 7.8.10 @ 10:31AM

Which wax, Doc? The one in your ears?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bernadette_Soubirous

Doctor Right| 7.8.10 @ 11:19AM

The wax in that see-through coffin in Lourdes.

There's NO WAY that's her real, unaltered body.

This is one of the BIGGEST scams the Catholic Church has ever run. Once they got over their initial outrage at this girls' preposterous "visions", they realized they could use her for propaganda, and VOILA!! It worked!! The Catholic Church has been cashing in on her ever since...And don't think for a second that didn't include swapping out her corpse for a perfect, wax replica.

And please...Wikipedia??? LOL!

PJ| 7.8.10 @ 11:00AM

This is a wonderful article on how science & religion unite. The Catholic Church views miracles w/skepticism & always have & will. Of course there were always a few throughout Church history who made urban legends of individuals into miracles. In those cases the Church generally tried to debunk such nonsense. The Catholic Church always believes in using good science. Heck --- many of the foundational scientific & legal theories & discoveries were done by Catholic religious.

As the article stated all the "miracles" in Lourdes have been scientifically researched but only a few have been authenticated as of now. But that doesn't mean they can't be explained in the future.

The few articles I've been reading about Lourdes indicate that many people looking for a miracle arrive desperate & maybe depressed & leave hopeful & at peace w/themselves. It may not be the miracle they were looking for but it sure eliminates $1000s of psychotherapy.

Frog In Uniform| 7.8.10 @ 11:43AM

The coffin is not in Lourdes, Doc, but in Nevers, and you could have read it in the link I provided, but your scientific approach prevented you from even clicking on it, because you happen to dislike Wikipedia for reasons best left unexplained. I just have Wikipedia and some hard to translate french medical and police reports to oppose to the many New England Journal Of Medicine articles regarding the matter that, no doubt about it, you're keeping ready to state your point.

Doctor Right| 7.8.10 @ 3:45PM

No matter where it is, it's a fake.

Tim*| 7.8.10 @ 6:02PM

Aaaand , no matter where Dr.Reich is , he's a fake.

KyMouse| 7.8.10 @ 11:49AM

Roman Catholicism has gone lightyears beyond what God reveals about Mary in the New Testament—see Matthew 1:18-2:21, 12:47-50; 13:55-57; Luke 1:27-56; John 2:1-5; 19:25-27; and Acts 1:14. God never says that we are to build shrines in her honor or ask her to help us. No Bible verse says that we are to call her Queen of Heaven, Co-Redeemer or any other title; instructs us to give her any form or degree of devotion; or indicates that she will pray for us now and at the hour of our death. Since Jesus (God) and His disciples said and did none of those things, neither will I. The New Testament simply acknowledges her as the mother of Jesus during His earthly incarnation.

A Catholic co-worker told me that praying to Mary isn’t idolatry—it’s no different from asking a friend to do me a favor. I told him, “If I ever wear a prayer medallion or scapular with your image on it; or preface my request to you by lighting candles in your honor, closing my eyes in prayer, addressing you by a heavenly title [cf. Queen of Heaven], and expressing any kind of spiritual devotion to you, then you should accuse me of idolatry.”

I give all of my worship, including all of my prayers and every kind of veneration, directly to God—Father, Son and Holy Spirit. Jesus loves me so much that He paid for all of my sins on the cross, so I don’t fear Him as my “stern judge” (as I have heard Catholics describe Him) or need any other intercessor/mediator, including Mary.

“For through Him we both [Jews and gentiles] have access by one Spirit to the Father” – Ephesians 2:18

“He is able also to save them to the uttermost who come to God by Him, since He ever lives to make intercession for them” – Hebrews 7:25

Travel all the way to France to pray to, or through, Mary, if you want to. As for me, I have (as Hebrews 10:19 puts it) “confidence to enter into the holiest by the blood of Jesus.” I ask only Him for heavenly help, because He said in Matthew 11:28, “Come to Me, all you who labor and are heavy-laden, and I will give you rest.”

QuoVadisAnima| 7.8.10 @ 1:02PM

KyMouse, is there no room in your relationship with Jesus for His family? Is His love so limited & restrictive that it cannot encompass all? And do you not celebrate the saints who have successfully made it to the finish line & "received the prize"? [1 Cor 9:24]

Do you believe that He Who commanded us to honor our earthly father & mother [Deut 5:16]gives no honor to His earthly mother?

And if we are adopted into the family of God [Rom 8:17], then does she not become our mother, too? [Jn 19:27]

So if we give honor to the Blessed Virgin [Lk 1:48], and ask her to speak to her Son (the heir to the throne of David & thereby making her the Gebirah) on our behalf [1 Kg 2:20] [Jn 2:7], how could the Lord Who designed these things to be so possibly be offended by our following Him? [Jn 12:26]

http://www.scripturecatholic.c.....he_bvm-III

KyMouse| 7.9.10 @ 4:26PM

QVA, I'll repeat what I said a bit lower down this page, in case you don't see it:

More and more Catholics are reading the Bible for themselves and discovering how little is actually said about Mary in its pages. They are realizing that all forms and degrees of devotion and worship are given directly to Jesus, not to or through her.

All of us know that the Magi followed the star to the manger. Notice that “they saw the young Child with Mary, His mother, and fell down and worshipped Him” (Matthew 2:11). They worshipped Jesus, but gave no veneration to Mary.

In the Acts of the Apostles and in the Epistles, Mary is all but absent. The final verse that mentions her, Acts 1:14, says that she was a member of a group that gathered to pray in the upper room. She is described as “the mother of Jesus” – not as Queen of Heaven and Earth, Co-Redeemer of Mankind, Mother of Grace, or any other royal or divine title that would have embarrassed such a devout Jewish woman.

I'll add here that Mary is not my mother, earthly or heavenly. (And God, not the pope, is my Holy Father.) Jesus Himself challenged the idea that Mary has a special place in the heavenly heirarchy, in Matthew 12:46-50 -- He did not say, "She is the Queen of Heaven and earth, so ask her for favors." He said, "Who is my mother?...Whosoever shall do the will of My Father who is in heaven, the same is My brother, and sister, and mother."

No one in the New Testament ever prays to, or through, Mary or anyone else. All worship, veneration and devotion is due directly to God alone.

KyMouse| 7.9.10 @ 4:50PM

QVA, I'll also add here what I said below about Revelation 22:8-9, verses which clearly deny that one worships God by giving some degree or form of veneration/devotion/worship to or through someone else.

John writes, “And when I had heard and seen, I fell down to worship before the feet of the angel which showed me these things. Then he said to me, ‘See that you do not do that, for I am your fellow-servant…Worship God.’”

John thought that prostrating himself at the feet of the angel was a good thing to do -- a way to honor God, who had sent the angel. However, the angel corrected him, because all forms and degrees of worship must be given directly to God.

Peter made the same point in Acts 10:26, when he met a man who thought he was honoring God by falling at Peter's feet. "Stand up," Peter said. "I myself also am a man."

Peter was a man, and Mary was a woman--no less, but no more, either.

In stark contrast to what Peter and the angel said, the Catholic Church in 709 A.D. started insisting that people kiss the pope’s feet.

Not I.

QuoVadisAnima| 7.10.10 @ 4:46AM

I will go ahead & post my reply to your other posts further down...

Frog In Uniform| 7.8.10 @ 11:53AM

... and, Doc, get over the Dan Brown syndrome. The Catholic Church is not into scams anymore than the protestants are into martyrdom. it's probably cleaner and purer than the AMA at any period in history.

Doctor Right| 7.8.10 @ 12:47PM

"The Catholic Church is not into scams anymore... it's probably cleaner and purer than the AMA at any period in history."

BUH-BUH-BWHAT?!?!?!?

http://freerepublic.com/focus/.....sts?page=4

Barbara| 7.8.10 @ 12:09PM

For those who believe no explanation is necessary. For those who do not believe no explanation is possible.

reasonable doubt| 7.8.10 @ 12:19PM

The old , the sick and the imperfectly infirm have reason to belive in God. Would you expect them to belive in Obama's eugenecists ? Like the one installed, by recess appointment, to head Medicare and Meicaid? I prefer a supernatural God - to men who would presume to act as gods.

Rose| 7.8.10 @ 12:45PM

I see miracles around me each and every day and it doesn't matter if anyone agrees with me, I know they are miracles. Faith is a wondrous thing. It gives one a whole new perspective.

QuoVadisAnima| 7.8.10 @ 1:14PM

Revisionist history is ugly enough, but coupled with revisionist theology, it is an even greater offense to God. You certainly do not have to agree with Catholic teaching, but it is very wrong to lie about what she teaches & why. If you were wrongly instructed & therefore write this in ignorance, as a disciple of Truth, you are obligated to right this wrong by seeking out the Truth for yourself.

It does not take much effort to google the information on this teaching
http://www.catholic.com/librar....._Assum.asp
Nor to find quotes from many of the early Church Fathers asserting the purity of the Blessed Virgin
http://www.scripturecatholic.c.....adition-II

There are reams of links providing documented information disproving the claims you are attempting to propagate.

Doctor Right| 7.8.10 @ 3:44PM

What "she" teaches..???

"She"..????

A Freudian slip, to be sure. No matter how hard they try, Catholics can't get away from Mary-worship...

QuoVadisAnima| 7.8.10 @ 4:47PM

An oddly ignorant comment for an allegedly former Catholic. To clarify for any lurkers, the Church is the Bride of Christ and so we refer to the Church as "she".

Ephesians 5:
[23] For the husband is the head of the wife as Christ is the head of the church, his body, and is himself its Savior.

Margie| 7.8.10 @ 5:32PM

And the body of Christ are believers, not only belonging to the Catholic church. Do you also acknowledge this truth?

QuoVadisAnima| 7.8.10 @ 6:38PM

If you believe in Jesus as Lord & Christ, then you belong to His Church ("catholic" simply means "universal"), so in that sense, yes, the body of Christ is His Church which is made up of His followers or believers. (Though the love is clearly not reciprocated, that means the Catholic Church considers you a member despite our separation!)

Margie| 7.8.10 @ 6:47PM

The "Love" is not reciprocated? What Love? You told me I was hateful for speaking lovingly and truthfully to my cousin.

The Catholic church is a cult, who teaches lies such as have been pointed out here. Forbidding Marriage is another. In the Bible God says that that is a doctrine of Demons! Yep, read it and weep.

Now the Spirit expressly says that in later times some will depart from the faith by giving heed to deceitful spirits and doctrines of demons, hrough the pretensions of liars whose consciences are seared, who forbid marriage and enjoin abstinence from foods which God created to be received with thanksgiving by those who believe and know the truth. For everything created by God is good, and nothing is to be rejected if it is received with thanksgiving; for then it is consecrated by the word of God and prayer." 1 Tim. 4:1-5.

I wish not to receive the "Love" from a cult that teaches other than Biblical Truth.

alexandra| 7.8.10 @ 7:20PM

Christ founded the Catholic Church, by giving the keys of the kingdom to Peter, the first Pope. If you read the Bible, then you would know that Catholicism is Christianity. Protestantism is "Christianity Lite."

Margie| 7.8.10 @ 7:30PM

False. Nowhere in the Bible does it say this. There is not even the mention of the word POPE. Nor is there any mention of the word Catholic.

What the Bible does say is this~ "And it shall be that whoever calls on the Name of the Lord shall be saved." Acts 2:21.

I trust what the Bible says. It says WHOEVER.

QuoVadisAnima| 7.8.10 @ 10:22PM

Nor is there mention of the Incarnation or the Trinity. Many doctrines are explicit, but some are implicit.

Margie| 7.8.10 @ 10:39PM

And since it isn't Biblical, I refuse to use it.

QuoVadisAnima| 7.9.10 @ 12:53AM

You don't believe in the Trinity? Are you an Adventist? How can you believe that Jesus is Lord and not believe in the Incarnation?

Margie| 7.9.10 @ 8:57AM

You've already proven that you are willing to teach the abomination of praying to the dead, promoting idols, and adding to the Bible words that aren't there.
You lied when you said that the Holy Spirit is "passed on Apostolicly." It is given to us by God!

You're therefore a liar. You care nothing for the Truth.

I denounce the Catholic Religion with its demonic teachings, along with those who teach them.

Jesus Christ is LORD. There is NO other. The Bible says so.

"Jesus said to him, "I am the Way, and the Truth, and the Life; no one comes to the Father, but by Me." Jn. 14:6.

The Bible means exactly what it says. Jesus is the Way to God. Not man.

You really need to repent of your false teaching or you will go to Hell. You are in serious trouble.

Alexandra| 7.9.10 @ 6:02PM

Margie: demonic teachings? It is THE CHURCH OF GOD. I have no idea which religion you follow, but it certainly is not Christian, or you would know better than to make statements like that. Good grief....

jd| 7.10.10 @ 12:14PM

Margie is the one that appears demonic here, not the Catholic Church. From previous posts she has said she does not follow any religion -- just the Bible, hence her narrow-mindedness. And if I'm not mistaken I believe Margie said before that her line of work is counseling young girls. THAT'S a scary thought, huh?

She is the type of "conservative" that gives the rest of us a bad name.

JmsA| 7.8.10 @ 12:58PM

Barbara,

Couldn't have said it better myself. I lived in Europe, Spain and Germany for nearly three years during my youth. I was under the care of the Catholic Church, usually living in pre-seminary boarding schools under the care of Franciscans, Dominicans, and Jesuits to be precise (and no, no one ever bothered me or made any untoward advances, for those of you who might wonder), as my parents had not yet been able to escape from our communist homeland. During that time I had the good fortune to visit the shrine on various occasions during Church-sponsored vacation trips through Europe. I still have very fond and moving memories from my visits to the shrine, as I witnessed faith personified by the thousands. Moreover, to this very day, though I cannot specifically explain it, there remains within me an indelible sense of peace and happiness whenever I think back to my stays in Lourdes, not only as I attended open evening mass, but also as I sat by the edge of the river watching the faithful walk by the Grotto. I also remember the hanging prosthetics in the Grotto, testament to those who had been freed from their physical wordily afflictions. Whether this was rightly due to miracles, I don't claim to know--but somehow I believe that faith and praying, though others may disagree, more than likely helped. I also had the good fortune to witness a young Danish man, who apparently having overcome some terrible ailment, and no longer needing his crutches, add them to those hanging in the grotto. I certainly appreciate this article, for it has brought back some wonderful memories, and your brief but ever so true sentiment. Thank you.

JmsA| 7.8.10 @ 8:10PM

Oops alert: I meant to write [worldly] affliction, and...and no longer needing his crutches, [added] them to those hanging in the grotto.

Gerald Stephens| 7.8.10 @ 1:08PM

Doctor Right,

We are all praying for you. The effect will be similar to being able to see your reflection in a mirror. If our efforts work you will behold a smiling happy person. If not we will just continue praying for you. Get back to us in about a year with the outcome.

thrufaithalone| 7.8.10 @ 1:22PM

Jesus told us to pray "Our Father...." Catholicism has many false teachings and this is just one of their many erroroneous beliefs. It's sad when people add to the Word of God.

PJ| 7.8.10 @ 1:55PM

I feel very sorry for you & others who have been taught the Catholic Church adds "to the Word of God." Quite the contrary. Please read the Catechism of the Catholic Church to dispel your confusion about what the Church really believes in. Notice that most of the footnotes are from the Bible.

Jorge| 7.8.10 @ 1:28PM

The Catholic Church should sell all of its worldly belongings,(this includes the papal gowns), give the proceeds to the poor, and follow Jesus.

QuoVadisAnima| 7.8.10 @ 2:34PM

What an original idea! ;-)

http://catholicism.about.com/b.....-world.htm

http://www.davidmacd.com/catho.....h_rich.htm

Frog In Uniform| 7.8.10 @ 1:30PM

And please... The New Republic??? LOL!

Doctor Right| 7.8.10 @ 1:56PM

Gerald, do not pray for me. My name is Legion, I'll be your helper tonight, the special is "worms".

Ryan| 7.8.10 @ 3:04PM

That's an interesting Diet.

Doctor Right| 7.8.10 @ 3:38PM

I did NOT write the above post.

Once of the Catholic cry-babies on this forum is using my pen-name.

Typical...

Rosalee| 7.8.10 @ 2:13PM

I am a Catholic and do not believe people need to travel to some shrine for healing.
Mary does not heal. Only God heals and He can be found wherever we are..........not in some shrine, building or wherever people believe they need to travel to find Him.

Doctor Right| 7.8.10 @ 3:40PM

Another instance of forgery. I did NOT post the above note, or link. TASOnline moderators can verify this.

It appears that some lame-brained Catholic drones don't like what's being said about "Holy Mother Church"...

Jeremiah| 7.8.10 @ 2:54PM

D.R.,
You are a silly and disgusting troll.

Doctor Right| 7.8.10 @ 3:41PM

I didn't post the porn-link, Jerry...Get a grip.

Jenny| 7.8.10 @ 2:59PM

I visited Lourdes two years ago and found it to be a wonderful, faith-filled place. The religious kitch is in the town, outside of the main campus of Lourdes.

The reason I went to Lourdes is because I have terminal cancer. At that point, I was nearly a year into the disease and given less than a year to live. But thanks be to God, I am still here two years after Lourdes and three years after diagnosis.

I cannot claim that I was cured at Lourdes. But ever since my visit, my cancer has progressed very slowly, and my health has been as good as it can be considering the diagnosis. What I found at Lourdes was more of a spiritual healing, which is as important, in the end, as physical healing.

As a faithful Catholic, I was inspired by people fom all over the world who pilgrimmaged to Lourdes and to worship God in our common faith.

Jamie| 7.8.10 @ 3:17PM

I know first hand about the power of prayer and miracles of healing. I am a survivor of 3 kinds of cancer (not all at once). A recent round of medical investigation found zero tumor markers in my blood. And yes, I have visited Lourdes, and Santiago de Compostela and Fatima. I am a Roman Catholic but have also attended healing services conducted by protestant minister Grace James in CT. The proof of my healing is in my survival 10 years on. Yes I had grueling - in some cases - medical treatment, but many have died from the same exact conditions and medical treatment. Perhaps it is the strength of my immune system that heals me, but if so prayer and faith have sustained my immunity. And I could not have survived without the support of jesus and his mother Mary.

gilleysuited| 7.8.10 @ 3:33PM

I did have time to read all the comments, so if I parrot another poster, forgive me, please.

No religion has ever saved a soul, no not one.

There is but one path and that is through the savior Jesus Christ. This is a personal relationship between each living soul and our Lord. No one can save another!

Any religion that claims to be the one and only true religion, You need to run from as fast and hard as you possible can. To say that a religion can save someone is Blasphemy!

GENE HAUBER| 7.8.10 @ 3:42PM

SMALL MINDS ALWAYS BICKER ABOUT SMALL THINGS THINKING THEY ARE OF ANY ONE'S CONCERN.
TALK INTELLIGENTLY!

IT IS POSSIBLE TO KNOW GOD'S MIND.....IT'S ON DISPLAY IN EVERY PAGE OF HIS WORD, THE BIBLE.

AND IN THE BIBLE, YOU WILL NOT FIND ONE INDICATION WHERE IT IS PERMISSIBLE TO GIVE HONOR OR GLORY OR TO PRAY TO OR TO WORSHIP ANYONE BUT GOD. NOT MARY, NOT ST CHRISTOPHER, NOT ST ANTHONY........WELL, YOU GET THE PICTURE.
ANY OF THAT IS A DIRECT VIOLATION OF GOD'S WORD.
HE IS THE ONLY ONE YOU PRAY TO AND GIVE HONOR TO; IN FACT, FOR THOSE OF YOU WHO ALWAYS WONDER WHY YOU ARE HERE ON EARTH........IT IS TO GIVE HONOR AND GLORY TO GOD, NOTHING ELSE....CHECK IT OUT.

AND ALSO.......ALL OF THIS REQUIRES FAITH IN HIM TO BELIEVE.

THERE ARE PROBABLY MANY CASES OF SPONTANEOUS REMISSION OF SERIOUS DISEASES.........ARE THEY MIRACLES?...WHO KNOWS?

PJ| 7.8.10 @ 4:10PM

No one is claiming to worship the saints or Mary but only give honor as one gives honor to our mothers, brothers, sisters, & fathers. That's in the Bible; I believe in Paul's letters.

For someone who is God-fearing & Bible -believing, then you must realize that we, human beings who have limited minds can not possibly know what's completely in God's limitless mind--- only what He chooses to reveal to us. Thus the Bible is a piece of what God is all about.

Marc Jeric| 7.8.10 @ 4:03PM

I was born a Roman Catholic; my mother was a fervent believer; my father (2 PhD's) was a sceptic but tolerant of the mother. Myself I am an agnostic, believing that a man can live an honest life without a faith in a god. I want to say two things: 1) I visited Lourdes because my mother asked me to - the sight of marching echelons of bekievers singing under their flags was awe-inspiring. There were there on that anniversay date several thousands sick people in beds and wheel chairs with their attendants, mainly nurses, looking at the procession below.
I got a bottle of Lourdes water and mailed it to mother; and she was extatic. What a cheap way to make somebody so happy.
2) I pity the darwinists who believe that the first cell was born by chance from a primordial soup. Mathematically speaking that is an utter impossibility. If the whole cosmos consisted of only two kinds of molecules - say white and black; and the entire cosmos of 10 to the power of 80 were put into that primordial soup at adequate temperature, say 29 centigrade; if the simplest imaginary living cell arranged in the simplest arrangement - one black, one white, etc.; then it would take over 16 billion years for that simplest arrangement to happen once by chance. Which is more time than the life of the cosmos.
Now that is what a mathematician calls an utter impossibility.

QuoVadisAnima| 7.8.10 @ 4:54PM

Marc, I left the Catholic Church as an agnostic when I was 20, but like you, I remained open to truth & reason. Have you ever looked at Thomas Aquinas' Summa? Or even CS Lewis' "Mere Christianity"?

Pete| 7.8.10 @ 4:35PM

Render unto Caeser....etc. Why begrudge any man his belief in anything as long as it gives him the strength to carry on and he's not forcing his "delusion" on anyone else?

Margie| 7.8.10 @ 4:47PM

Why? Because the Truth sets you free, and God doesn't want people to suffer under delusion. Jesus died for right and wrong. Christians speak truthfully because that's what He would do.

How cruel is it for a cripple person to go and try praying to a statue thinking they may be healed only to come away the same cripple. My cousin who was born with a twisted up physical body and could never walk her whole life, never had a tooth able to grow in her mouth, could only drink through a straw and constantly drooled, was taken to one of these abominations. She lived a cripple til she died at 54 years of age. (Cerebral Paulsy).

I told her the truth. That Jesus Himself would heal her physical body when she got to Heaven. That she would no longer feel any pain, that there would be no more tears or even any remembrance of anything past.

Miracles only happen in the Name of Jesus. No one other person has the power to do miracles because no one else ever conquered death and overcame the power of sin, but Jesus. Those who were healed at those abominations were healed by Him, out of His mercy, by His great power, and for His glory alone.

QuoVadisAnima| 7.8.10 @ 5:02PM

Did you really speak with such hateful (not to mention ignorant) scorn to your cousin? Was she comforted by it? Brr. You remind me of a Baptist girl I knew who believed that her obligation to evangelize was sufficiently met simply by telling people that they were going to hell unless they converted.

Where did you get the idea that "praying to a statue" was the source of healing here? At least take some time to learn the truth about something before you condemn it. Naaman didn't believe in the healing power of water either. Initially.

Margie| 7.8.10 @ 5:16PM

She was comforted greatly, yes! After she was lied to about praying to a statue, and wasn't healed, the words of Christ greatly comforted her. She became aware of the fact that she would be with Jesus for eternity, have a brand new perfect body, have inexplicable joy and rejoicing, would see everyone she ever knew in her lifetime that ever loved Jesus like she did, walk on streets paved with gold where flowers of every color and hue, colors we've never seen before and that would never die because there is no death in Heaven, yes she was very comforted, and glad.

She used to type letters to me with her crippled fingers because she actually liked me so much. I was a source of hope to her where she had none before, concerning her future.

Answer your nasty question, sir?

QuoVadisAnima| 7.8.10 @ 6:01PM

I doubt that you spoke with such ugliness to her. Scripture exhorts us to speak the Truth "with gentleness and reverence". [1 Pet 3:15] There is no Love in your "defenses" posted here. One cannot have Truth without Love for they have the same Source.

Since you asked, no, you only answered the questions from the first paragraph not the second.

Furthermore, your reply raises more questions. Why do you believe your exposition on the promise of the afterlife that you gave to your cousin is unique to your faith & not to be found in Catholicism? Again, Lourdes does not teach people to pray to statues. And it comes with no promise to physically heal. With a little effort, you would find that the emphasis by the Church regarding Lourdes is on finding spiritual healing and accepting God's will for your earthly life so that you might have eternal joy with Him in the next. Just like the very first tenet of the faith that Catholic children are taught from their catechism.

Also, using the same logic you choose to employ here, if Jesus does not heal a person when they pray to Him, does that mean that He is not real either?

Margie| 7.8.10 @ 6:06PM

Only a sick pervert like you would see hatred in how I spoke to my cousin. It is because I refuse to swallow your perverted Religion.

Without the Truth you cannot love anybody. False doctrine and leading others astray with lies about praying to the dead (Mary) and/or statues is not only hateful, but deceiving and devlish.

I hope you repent. But if you don't~ your sin will find you out.

QuoVadisAnima| 7.8.10 @ 6:17PM

No, I see hatred in how you speak to people here - I specifically said that I doubted that you spoke in such a way to your cousin.

Lying about anything - including what the Catholic Church teaches - is indeed evil.

Margie| 7.8.10 @ 6:30PM

Right. After you said it was hateful. You're folding like a cheap camera.
Lying to people about praying to the dead, and teaching that everyone goes to Heaven is an abomination.

Like I said, I hope you repent. Otherwise you're setting yourself up to fall for the Anti-Christ and his pretended signs and wonders.

You need to get real. And fast.

Elmer Gantry| 7.8.10 @ 6:51PM

Repent Margie !

Margie| 7.8.10 @ 6:59PM

I do, every single day. I must. Do you, Elmer?

Elmer Gantry| 7.8.10 @ 7:12PM

It's Too Late !

I'm In Hell , For Bein' An Anti-Catholic Nut Bag .

Margie| 7.8.10 @ 7:15PM

What a pity, Tim,* and all along there really was hope.

Elmer Gantry| 7.8.10 @ 7:23PM

Tim's not here. He's down on Earth exposing Anti-Catholic Screw Balls .

Margie| 7.8.10 @ 7:36PM

Say Elmer. That would be "anti-lies" sane person.

Elmer Gantry| 7.8.10 @ 7:54PM

Now Margie my Lapsed Catholic turned Elmer Gantry Disciple ,The Truth is that you are an Anti-Catholic with an ax to grind.

Margie| 7.8.10 @ 8:27PM

Tim,* I despise lies. And God has an ax to grind against liars, and against those who pervert His Holy word. Those who add to it and take away from it.

The liars who forbid Marriage~against the Bible, those who promote the lie of praying to the dead or to statues~against the Bible~ those who lie and promote the worship of man and not God, lying that any man other than Christ can forgive sin. Those who promote the lie that you are actually drinking the blood of Christ and eating His body when they take Communion. Those who lie and say that the Catholic church is the true church. How can the true church be one that lies?

It cannot.

"Then I heard another voice from heaven saying, "Come out of her, my people, lest you take part in her sins, lest you share in her plagues.." Rev. 18:4.

Come out from among her, Tim*. Grind the ax of Truth.

Elmer Gantry| 7.8.10 @ 8:33PM

Are Ya callin' your Catholic Mommy & Daddy " Perverts & Liars " , there Margie ?

What Church of Your's , Claims Catholics are "Perverts & Liar " ?

Margie| 7.8.10 @ 8:42PM

As usual Tim* cannot read. Nor does Tim* want to man up and take his "real" name here.

Elmer Gantry| 7.8.10 @ 8:55PM

Margie Is doin' The Elmer Gantry Tap Dance now.

Margie wrote , " I despise lies. And God has an ax to grind against liars, and against those who pervert His Holy word. Those who add to it and take away from it.

So say You ,Margie personally Liar .
Aaaand , Margie adds ," The liars who forbid Marriage~against the Bible, those who promote the lie of praying to the dead or to statues~against the Bible~ those who lie and promote the worship of man and not God, lying that any man other than Christ can forgive sin. Those who promote the lie that you are actually drinking the blood of Christ and eating His body when they take Communion. Those who lie and say that the Catholic church is the true church. How can the true church be one that lies? "

What's The matter Disciple ? Can't you tell the TRUTH about labeling Your Catholic Mommy & Daddy as " Perverts & Liars ".

Margie's tellin' AS readers Margie's Interpretation of " The Truth " .

Margie| 7.8.10 @ 9:10PM

You're a coward, Tim*~ take your real name and behave like a man.

Elmer Gantry| 7.8.10 @ 9:31PM

Obviously Margie .You can't bring yourself to "Tell The Truth " about Your Own Religious Contempt for Your Catholic Mommy & Daddy.

So much for Margie's Interpretation of "The Truth " .

Margie| 7.8.10 @ 9:56PM

Tim* is a cowardly man, who has to hide behind another name. So much for Tim*'s manliness.

Or should I say, Toddard? Hmm, snake?

Margie| 7.8.10 @ 10:00PM

Snake of a man. Twisting my words. I said Catholicism is a lie. And it is. Individuals who follow it are led astray by deceivers, like you.

You are a liar and are putting words in my mouth, like a snake.
And yes, God hates lies. Wherever they are taught. I have no contempt for my Parents. Now, I do have contempt for you, oh slithering snake!

jd| 7.9.10 @ 9:15AM

Seriously, Margie, if you re-read all your rants on this site, YOU are the one that comes across deranged. I could cite many "Biblical" foundational roots of Catholicism, and could try and educate you, as many others have done over various articles on this site, but the fact remains you are hopeless. You believe your version of the truth period. Truth is the one True Faith and that is Catholicism. Sorry you have such deep-seated hatred that blinds you to that. Anytime somebody points out your inconsistencies and fallacies as they see it, you accuse them generically of lies, deceit, being "stalkers" of you (seems to me that YOU are the one harassing people who disagree with you), or hiding behind other users' names (so childish of you -- trying to lump Tim* and Elmer ,etc. into one person may fit you emotionally to characterize all your opponents as one person, but that just highlights your immaturity ). You blithering really turns many people off, especially those that may seek to know more about Christ. Shame on you for all your childish antics. You really do have some deep-seated issues here that need to be resolved, dear.

Margie| 7.9.10 @ 10:05AM

"Dear" jd,

You are a bald faced liar.

I hope you repent. If you don't, you will go to Hell.

jd| 7.8.10 @ 9:26PM

Margie,

I thought you love Truth?Why can't you see what most everybody here sees -- that you are indeed a bigot against Catholics and you really do not understand Catholicism one iota yet think you do. Your ignorance cannot hide behind your Bible. Now go take some meds or SEEK HELP.

Margie| 7.8.10 @ 9:53PM

jd,
Catholicism is a lie. You refuse to be Biblical therefore you condemn yourself. You would rather serve lies than the Truth as spoken by Jesus in the Bible.

Your choice, "lady."

Margie| 7.8.10 @ 5:21PM

Oh, and by the way genius, do you believe in healing by praying to a statue or even better, a dead person? If so you are delusional.

And as for Naaman, If I'm not mistaken, he was obeying God's order, was he not? If you are trying to use that to somehow justify praying to the dead, you're also delusional.

But hey~ you're certainly entitled to it!

QuoVadisAnima| 7.8.10 @ 6:15PM

Actually Naaman was obeying Elisha's instructions...

Margie| 7.8.10 @ 6:32PM

OK~ and Elisha's instructions were from God. And it certainly has nothing to do with believing a hoax about "holy water" or praying to the dead, (Mary.) Which are lies and are taught by deceivers like you.

Repent!

QuoVadisAnima| 7.8.10 @ 6:40PM

How did Naaman know that Elisha was speaking for God and not making it up?

Margie| 7.8.10 @ 6:58PM

The same way anyone recognizes the truth from a lie. The same way that His sheep know His voice. The same way I know not to listen to yours.

"When He has brought out all His own, He goes before them, and the sheep follow Him, for they know His voice. A stranger they will not follow, but they will flee from him, for they do not know the voice of strangers." Jn. 10:4&5.

QuoVadisAnima| 7.8.10 @ 8:46PM

So how do you recognize Truth from lies? What is your method of discernment?

Margie| 7.8.10 @ 8:51PM

The Holy Spirit, along with my conscience and the Bible, which my conscience agrees with.

QuoVadisAnima| 7.8.10 @ 10:39PM

And how does the Holy Spirit speak to you? Do you hear an actual voice or do you just have a sort of feeling?

Do you use a concordance, a computerized key word search, a Bible Study guide, or do you flip open the Bible to see where it opens?

What informs your conscience? Some things God has written on our hearts, but sin can obscure our spiritual vision. Other things we have to learn and so we have catechesis from our parents and/or whatever denomination we were raised in or joined. "Instinct" can only take one's conscience so far.

These details are important - after all, Mormons determine truth by a "burning in the bosom" and cultists see their leaders in Scripture (once their leaders point it out to them), so clearly there must be something more to your discernment than it just "feels right" and "seems to fit" something in Scripture or anything similar to that.

Otherwise we are at risk of following our own will and ascribing it to God - which is actually raising ourselves to the level of God and therefore a gravely serious offense.

Margie| 7.8.10 @ 11:19PM

Excuse me there genius but don't put words in my mouth. I didn't say the Holy Spirit speaks to me.

According to the Bible, I was "regenerated from above," as in John 3:3, "Born anew to a living hope." as in 2 peter.

As in~ "Having the eyes of your hearts enlightened, that you may know what is the hope to which He has called you, what are the riches of His glorious inheritance in the saints.." Eph. 1:18.

If you were really a Christian, you wouldn't be asking me these questions because you would know this already.

And I already answered your stupid, condescending, snarky question.

QuoVadisAnima| 7.9.10 @ 12:32AM

But you have already told me that I am not a Christian & am in darkness so how could I possibly know this already? So how do you discern Truth from lies?

Your answer was vague: "The Holy Spirit, along with my conscience and the Bible, which my conscience agrees with." I am asking you to clarify what that actually means in real life, concretely usable terms.

How do you trust yourself when you determine that God's will just happens to coincide with what you want it to be?

Margie| 7.9.10 @ 1:08AM

Why is it that you Catholics actually lie the way you do? What a snake! I said no such thing. What a creep.

Ask yourself where you are headed yourself because that's what you'd better concern yourself with.

I spoke truthfully and according to the Bible. You will have to deal with your own sick soul before God.

Pervert.

QuoVadisAnima| 7.9.10 @ 1:24AM

Do you win a lot of converts with this approach?

Mt 12 [33]You shall know a tree by its fruit
Gal 5 [22] the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control

Margie| 7.9.10 @ 1:29AM

Do you slither like a snake every day of your life, or just on Sundays and a few nights in between?

jd| 7.9.10 @ 11:04AM

We all know the answer to that, Marge. Answer it.

Margie| 7.8.10 @ 5:59PM

Anyone who preaches that unless they repent and converted to Christ or they will go to Hell is preaching the gospel of Jesus Christ.

Another despicable lie that the Catholic Religion teaches is that everyone goes to Heaven. Sadly, many in the congregations believe this. But all you have to do is read what the Bible says to know the truth.

There is no such thing as Purgatory. There is no middle ground where we all go and hang out for awhile. It isn't in the Bible.

I will take God's word for it, when He says, "I tell you, No; but unless you repent you will all likewise perish." Luke 13:3.

Perish? You mean, PERISH?! Yes, perish.

Margie's Cousin| 7.8.10 @ 6:28PM

Pray For Margie , She's Possessed By Elmer Gantry .

Margie| 7.8.10 @ 6:34PM

Hey, Tim*~ you cannot hide, as your misplaced commas give you away. Sure, pray for me if that's what you really believe.

Meanwhile, I hope you repent and come to know Jesus, according to His way, according to the Bible.

Margie's Cousin| 7.8.10 @ 6:44PM

Why did you push me down the stairs in my wheelchair ?

jd| 7.9.10 @ 11:00AM

Because you didn't believe my version of the Truth!

Richard A| 7.9.10 @ 9:28AM

The Catholic Church does NOT teach that everyone goes to Heaven. You will want to remove that particular slur from your anti-Catholic diatribes.

Do you believe that after you die all your works will be tested and those unworthy of Heaven will be consumed by fire (I think that's a metaphorical "fire" but no matter) and that the Christian whose works have been thus consumed will enter Heaven but as one who has passed through fire?

Margie| 7.9.10 @ 10:03AM

Tell the truth. The false Catholic doctrine teaches that there is a place called "Purgatory." It is NOT Biblical! It's another lie. It doesn't exist. Stick to the Bible. Otherwise you enjoin yourself with a cult that teaches people to pray to the dead, forbid Marriage, and that Catholic doctrine is to be followed rather than Jesus Himself. Lies.

"For if God did not spare the angels when they sinned, but cast them into Hell and committed them to pits of nether gloom to be kept until the judgment.." 2 Pe. 2:4.

God does throw us into Hell. Want to know for what? Read the Bible:

"But as for the cowardly, the faithless, the polluted, as for murderers, fornicators, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars, their lot shall be in the lake that burns with fire and sulphur, which is the second death." Rev. 21:8.

Liars~ did you read it?

Veronica| 7.10.10 @ 4:23AM

...by your response I can say that your Religion is also a cult, because if it weren't for the first 16oo years of the existence of the Catholic Church, you would not be in your 'feel good' Christian cult.
The Protestant reformation was when you separated from the Church that Christ instituded 1600 years before, kept the writings together, put together the first Bibles before the Guttemberg press and without consulting anyone your 'reformers' threw out 8 books of the original bible....Under what authority??? Who told them they were "un-biblical"? You belive in a false Bible that is incomplete. I would call that "DEMONIC" because A MAN like KING JAMES of England made the Bible fit his religion.
It's confusing to me that all the Bible-thumping protestants seem to forget passages from the Bible that aren't convenient for their endoctrinated minds.
It's also funny how uneducated about Church Teaching you are, but seem to know how to SAVE us all Catholic Idolaters.... Did Christ teach with insults like you??? You are nothing like HIM by the way you talk to others that disagree with you and who know their Faith and believe in it
As far as Mary goes... the Angel Gabriel in Luke 1:28 saluted her with a greeting only reserved for Royalty - "Hail FAVORED ONE, the LORD is with YOU".... Totally biblical, go thump on that.
Furthermore... Elizabeth calls her Blessed and the Mother of her Lord in Luke 1:42-43 "Most blessed are you among women, and blessed is the fruit of your womb. 43
And how does this happen to me, that the mother of my Lord should come to me?"

You forget what we EVIL Idolaters call the Magnificat... Imagine this, it's Biblical!
Luke 1:46-55 : "My soul proclaims the greatness of the Lord;
47
my spirit rejoices in God my savior.
48
For he has looked upon his handmaid's lowliness; behold, from now on will ALL AGES CALL ME BLESSED.
49
The Mighty One has done great things for me, and holy is his name.
50
His mercy is from age to age to those who fear him.
51
He has shown might with his arm, dispersed the arrogant of mind and heart.
52
He has thrown down the rulers from their thrones but lifted up the lowly.
53
The hungry he has filled with good things; the rich he has sent away empty.
54
He has helped Israel his servant, remembering his mercy,
55
according to his promise to our fathers, to Abraham and to his descendants forever.

I guess God made Moses an Idolater too when he asked him to make images of two cherubim with wings...Exodus 25:18-20
And then I guess you know better than St. Paul when he advocated to follow the follow tradition??? NOT JUST SCRIPTURE!!!!
1Cor 11:2 - I praise you because you remember me in everything and hold fast to the traditions, just as I handed them on to you.
2 Thess 2:15 - "Therefore, brothers, stand firm and hold fast to the traditions that you were taught, either by an ORAL statement or by a letter of ours."
Read your treasured Bible Closer! Not everything was WRITTEN!!!
As far as bishops, deacons & priests goes...
BTW, the Pope is the Bishop of Rome...
1 Tim 3:1 "This saying is trustworthy: 2 whoever aspires to the office of bishop desires a noble task.
2
Therefore, a bishop must be irreproachable, married only once, temperate, self-controlled, decent, hospitable, able to teach,
3
not a drunkard, not aggressive, but gentle, not contentious, not a lover of money."
1 Tim 8: "Similarly, deacons must be dignified, not deceitful, not addicted to drink, not greedy for sordid gain"
1 Tim 5:17: "Presbyters who preside well deserve double honor, especially those who toil in preaching and teaching"

And YOU ARE NOT SAVED YET - you need to constantly work for it! You can't just get it by calling Jesus' name... its not like you can just believe and that's it... You still sin and get separated from Christ then what?
Phil 2:12 - "So then, my beloved, obedient as you have always been, not only when I am present but all the more now when I am absent, WORK OUT your salvation with fear and trembling."
1 Cor 10:12 - "Therefore, whoever thinks he is standing secure should take care not to fall."

And NO MY CHURCH doesnt teach that all go to heaven...
Luke 3:17 -His winnowing fan is in his hand to clear his threshing floor and to gather the wheat into his barn, but the chaff he will BURN with unquenchable fire"
Rev. 21:27 - "but nothing unclean will enter it, nor any (one) who does abominable things or tells lies. "

Please stop actinl like you are Better than Catholics... you've actually proved otherwise and will never make any of us change our minds with your UNCARING and RUDE manner!

PJ| 7.8.10 @ 6:17PM

"Miracles only happen in the Name of Jesus." How totally true! But like our family & friends who pray for us here on earth, (Don't you ask a friend to pray for a certain outcome to happen for you?) why can't our deceased family & friends pray for us too, assuming they're not in Hell? What's really happening here is all those prayers are asking God for help.

When Catholics pray to Mary & the saints, we are only asking them to intercede for us. We are not worshipping them. Praying directly to God is most important but I think He also likes us to ask others to pray w/us to Him. Isn't this a form of kindness? That's what Lourdes is all about---------praying to the Mother of Jesus for her help in asking her son for His Divine intervention.

Margie| 7.8.10 @ 6:38PM

PJ,

Because Mary and all other human beings are dead. The Catholic Religion is lying to you when they say that a dead person can hear our prayers.

The reason this is so is because He is the only person that died for our sins and therefore overcame death. God rose only Jesus from the dead. No one else. Therefore no one else has the power to forgive sins. He is the only One still living, the only One sitting at the Right Hand of the Father who God gave the authority to pray to.

You MUST read the Bible if you want to find the truth.

Alexandra| 7.8.10 @ 7:21PM

Margie: You must read the Bible, the Catholic Bible, not the one that Luther tore apart centuries ago...

Margie| 7.8.10 @ 7:34PM

No thank you. I have already pointed out the lies that this Religion teaches so I am not interested in their Bible.

"I warn every one who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: if any one adds to them, God will add to him the plagues described in this book, and if any one takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God will take away his share in the tree of life and in the holy city, which are described in this book." Rev. 22:18&19;.

I take those words VERY seriously. In fact, I bet my life on them.

Mahd| 7.8.10 @ 7:45PM

Margie : You must read The Qur'ran.

Margie| 7.8.10 @ 8:29PM

Why? I already know where Muhammed is.

Avi| 7.8.10 @ 8:42PM

Margie:You must read The Torah.

Mahd| 7.8.10 @ 8:45PM

Where would that be ?

Margie| 7.8.10 @ 8:47PM

I'll give you three guesses.

Mahd| 7.8.10 @ 9:01PM

What's The Matter ?

Afraid to Tell You Version of The Truth ?

Where's Muhammid ?

Where Are The Deceased Practicing Muslims & Jews ?

Hmmmm , Truth Teller ?

Margie| 7.8.10 @ 9:08PM

You asked me where Mohammed is. I told you to guess. I'm not playing your game, oh deceitful one. I know what God says about where liars and cowards go though, Tim.* Read the Bible.

Rev. 21:8~ "But as for the cowardly, the faithless, the polluted, as for murderers, fornicators, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars, their lot shall be in the lake that burns with fire and sulphur, which is the second death."

Mahd| 7.8.10 @ 9:16PM

So Margie says deceased practicing Muslims and Jews and all liars, their lot shall be in the lake that burns with fire and sulphur, which is the second death."

That would be " HELL " ,and you have Tap Danced all around You saying Practicing Jews And Muslims Go to Hell .

Margie| 7.8.10 @ 9:48PM

Not what I said, coward Tim.* Sounds to me like that is what you're saying though. And what you WANT me to say, coward.

Still preferring to hide and behave like a snake?

JP| 7.9.10 @ 9:03AM

And Luther removed 3 books of the Bible. He wanted to remove one of the Gospels but not even his own followers were willing to due that.

PJ| 7.8.10 @ 8:39PM

Margie,
You seem to be a very sincere person but you need to study your Bible further & reread my postings again. See also Romans 8: 27; Ephesians 4:12; Revelations 5: 8-9; James 5:16. BTW, Catholic theology never contradicts the Bible.

Margie| 7.8.10 @ 8:49PM

Thanks, PJ. I will read them and get back to you. Right now I have to do some work. Say, do you know about this site where you can plug in any word and it'll bring up any verse, and in many different versions of the Bible? It's called BlueLetterBible.com.

Ari| 7.8.10 @ 9:23PM

Apparently , Margie doesn't know The Bible all that well , just the parts that condemn everybody else ,who doesn't believe Margie's Interpretation of "The Truth " .

Margie| 7.8.10 @ 10:02PM

Tim* the cowardly snake:
The Bible is its own authority. I repeated what it says and you cannot bear it. You will have to deal with your own sin, oh snake.

JP| 7.9.10 @ 9:06AM

And we know from the Gospels that Christ "commisioned" his disciples to go out and hear confessions and forgive sins. These very same disciples also formed The Church and all of its Traditions, which you so despise.

Margie| 7.9.10 @ 9:40AM

"The Church" isn't the Catholic church. According to the Bible, His Church is the body of believers, ALL of us, and any who are gathered together in His Name.

Mt. 18:20. "For where two or three are gathered in My Name, there am I in the midst of them."

Again, I will stick with what the Bible actually says, not the teaching of your false doctrine.

And yes, Jesus said to the Apostles, Jn. 20:23. "If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven; if you retain the sins of any, they are retained."

This does not justify a Pope making himself like a King and allowing himself to be treated as such. The Apostles, and indeed ALL Christians who are born of God's Spirit treat each other as servants of one another.

There is no King, but Jesus. Only He is Lord.

And any Pope (or man) who teaches against what the Bible says is a liar. The fasle doctrine of forbidding Marriage is despicable! Can't you read?

"Now the Spirit expressly says that in later times some will depart from the faith by giving heed to deceitful spirits and doctrines of demons, through the pretensions of liars whose consciences are seared, who forbid marriage and enjoin abstinence from foods which God created to be received with thanksgiving by those who believe and know the truth. For everything created by God is good, and nothing is to be rejected if it is received with thanksgiving.." 1 Tim. 4:1-4.

It says it is a doctrine of demons! And that doesn't make you sick? It makes me want to puke!

Who do you serve, then, if you agree with this false church?

Yes, I despise it mightily. And so should you.

Veronica| 7.10.10 @ 4:39AM

Please stop spewing hatred!
Follow your own advice not just believe what Pastor Bob tells you!
Do you believe Jesus followed all of the Commandments?
Assuming you do, what is the 4th?
HONOR YOUR FATHER AND MOTHER, right?
The original Greek translation - Honor = GLORIFY. Jesus honored and glorified Mary by virtue of being the only "perfect'' human being.
So as HIS follower you refuse to Honor her, just as He did? You will follow everything else except for that?
Do you like people that hate or ignore your mother?
The Catholic Church teaches that the closest human being to Jesus was Mary. Asking for her intercession throught her Son is not Idolatry. You are asking a person who is in HEAVEN close to Jesus to pray for us.

Margie| 7.9.10 @ 10:12AM

PJ~ Because it is not Biblical, that's why. Either you listen to what God say and that is found in the Bible~ or you choose to believe the lies that the Catholic church teaches.

If you want to be Biblical you will read this:

"For there is one God, and there is one Mediator between God and men, the Man Christ Jesus, who gave Himself as a ransom for all, the testimony to which was borne at the proper time." 1 Tim. 2:5 & 6.

IF you want to be Biblical.

JP| 7.9.10 @ 9:25AM

Marge,
You Protestants put Christ inside a materialist box of your own creation. You put limits on His Grace; on his abilities to work miracles through humans here on earth; you've made Christ in your image not His. We Catholics worship the Man; you worship The Book. The Bible to you is nothing more than a rock used to bludgeon "infidels". To you Christ is nothing more than a) an abstraction and b)a reflection of your own materialists beliefs. You make the mistake of reducing Christ to a relatively short number of verses contained in a few books of the Bible. You confine Christ to mere words, while giving lip service to his "omnipotence". But you really don't believe in his omnipotnce; for The Book limits His Grace, His Mercy, and His Love. You could no more accept Him visiting an obscure peasant girl in France anymore than you can accept the fact that Christ isn't constrained by Space and Time -for the Bible mentions niether. You could no more accept the fact that Christ could today santify the waters of a small creek with His healing powers for the simple fact that it isn't written in the Bible.

Marge,
You keep Christ bottle up in paragraphs, and verses - for that is where you like Him.

Margie| 7.9.10 @ 9:43AM

JP,

You're a bald faced liar.

And I am not a "Protestant." I am a Christian. Something you seem to despise.

And everything else you said in your disgusting post are lies.

I hope you repent, but if you don't, you will go to Hell.

jd| 7.9.10 @ 10:55AM

JP spoke beautifully.

The snake here spitting venom is that "Godly Christian" woman named Margie.

Yet again, the lies! The deceit! Hey, Marge, isn't name-calling and slander forbidden in your interpretation of the Bible? You are so boxed in by Biblical verses that you do not see the forest amongst the trees.

JP| 7.10.10 @ 8:45AM

Marge,
And who made YOU anyone's confessor? You words prove my points. Personally, I could give a hoot what you Protestants think. There are so many denominations (I believe 36,000) that is well near impossible to figure out what you people actually believe. Your follow YOUR interpretation. You limit Christ, and define Christ by a book. This was never Christ's intentions, nor the early Church's. And I'm not sure what is so disgusting about what I posted. You come here and pounce on Catholics with your verses. To you, to evangelize is to denounce.

I have plenty of Protestant friends. But there is an understanding that we will never prostelitize eachother. I have respect for thier knowledge of biblical verses and thier attempts to live by them. I have no idea if that respect is shared, and personally I do not care. But I have little time for evangelicals (or Radical Traditional Catholics) he see me not as a fellow Sinner, but as a mark that must be cashed in.

Ann| 7.8.10 @ 5:07PM

"The Third Miracle" is a great film on this subject.

You either believe or not. I'm grateful I do. The human endurance of faith, love and kindness is the greatest miracle. It's hard to be a Catholic today, what with the endless attacks from both Left and Right. Our culture is increasingly averse to the beautiful, but I find it in the Church, no matter the jeers and emptiness of our culture.

Tim| 7.8.10 @ 7:40PM

Faith is worth millions, only sorrow for those without it.

Felix| 7.8.10 @ 8:14PM

This article falls prey to the false dichotomy of Faith vs Reason. JPII pointed out in his encyclical Fides et Ratio, just how faith and reason can work together and compliment each other. Mr Johnson no doubt is ignorant of this encyclical. Much of Science is based upon false assumptions. Often so called science turns down blind alleys with an unproductive pack mentality. The greatest minds were always rebels against the scientific dogma of the day. When the military paid exorbitant fees to scientists who could do nothing but prove that heavier than air flight was impossible, 2 men at a bike shop proved otherwise. We never hear of the 99% of failures of science, only it's 1% of accomplishments. Likewise, we never hear of the accomplishments due to faith, but only of the failings of those of faith.

CMD1969| 7.8.10 @ 8:23PM

Have Faith and miracles can happen. We humans can't explain everything in life...so just count on your Faith...and that is the best you can do...leave the rest to God!

cliff stryker| 7.8.10 @ 9:49PM

i believe in god.
why is it that countries that believe in god are free from starvation,war and cruelty?
Africa is a perfect example.

QuoVadisAnima| 7.8.10 @ 10:46PM

Atheism is so much superior - notice how the atheistic govt's of history freed their people from starvation, war & cruelty?

Actually if you believed in God you would know why starvation, war & cruelty exist - it's called free will & sin. He gave us free will and we showed Him our gratitude by giving Him our sin...

Anthony| 7.9.10 @ 12:27AM

A few years ago, my wife, two-year-old son and I went on a trip through the Pyrenees. We drove from Spain through the mountains and stayed at Lourdes. Like many of us, I was a little skeptical of the claims of those who visited Lourdes. The town is kitschy - a bit like Niagra Falls. But I was impressed with the evening candlelight service, a sense of peace and concern for eachother filled the atmosphere. The next day, we filled a large bottle with "Lourdes water" for our family and friends back home.
On our drive to Bayonne, our son became increasingly cranky. The crying wouldn't stop - nursing, snacks, nothing worked. Finally, my wife gave him big sips from the Lourdes bottle: silence. Perfect silence for the remainder of the ride.

At that moment, I believed.

KyMouse| 7.9.10 @ 9:48AM

More and more Catholics are reading the Bible for themselves and discovering how little is actually said about Mary in its pages. They are realizing that all forms and degrees of devotion and worship are given directly to Jesus, not to or through her.

All of us know that the Magi followed the star to the manger. Notice that “they saw the young Child with Mary, His mother, and fell down and worshipped Him” (Matthew 2:11). They worshipped Jesus, but gave no veneration to Mary.

In the Acts of the Apostles and in the Epistles, Mary is all but absent. The final verse that mentions her, Acts 1:14, says that she was a member of a group that gathered to pray in the upper room. She is described as “the mother of Jesus” – not as Queen of Heaven and Earth, Co-Redeemer of Mankind, Mother of Grace, or any other royal or divine title that would have embarrassed such a devout Jewish woman.

The idea that one can worship God by giving some degree or form of veneration to someone else is flatly denied in Revelation 22:8-9. John writes, “And when I had heard and seen, I fell down to worship before the feet of the angel which showed me these things. Then he said to me, ‘See that you do not do that, for I am your fellow-servant…Worship God.’”

The angel was insisting that all forms and degrees of worship must be given directly to God, not through anyone else. John was rebuked for bowing low at the feet of a holy angel--however, in 709 A.D., the Catholic Church began instructing people to get down and kiss the pope’s feet. In contrast to that, in Acts 10:26 we read that Peter wouldn’t let a man fall at his feet to worship to (or through) him – “Stand up,” he said. “I myself also am a man.”

John says (in Revelation 5:12-14) that everyone in heaven was singing, “Worthy is the Lamb who was slain [not Mary] to receive…honor and glory and blessing…Blessing and honor and glory and power be to Him [not Mary] who sits upon the throne, and to the Lamb for ever and ever…And [they] fell down and worshipped Him who lives forever and ever.” Amen to that.

Margie| 7.9.10 @ 10:21AM

Thank you, Jesus for the Truth that is You! There is no other but You. Praise His Holy Name. May everyone who believes and serves a lie repent before it is too late.

"And behold, I am coming soon." Blessed is he who keeps the words of the prophecy of this book." Rev. 22:7.

"Behold, I am coming soon, bringing My recompense, to repay every one for what he has done." Rev. 22:12.

John II| 7.9.10 @ 7:01PM

Been quiet for a while. Is it safe to come out now?

Marge, if you're still there, I just wanted to say one thing, but I can't remember what it was, so I'll say two things.

1. I'm reasonably certain that you don't think I'm a pervert (or "deviated pre-vert," in the words of Col. Bat Guano), but I AM a Catholic. Five kids, six grandkids, and counting. And they all like me. I am astonished by your asseveration regarding the RCs. But, as usual, I rather fancy the way you asseverate, so let it go.

2. So what's the big deal about Mary? I mean, if God Himself can become man in Christ Jesus, why can't He give us a New Eve as an exemplar to remind us of what we're SUPPOSED to be after we screwed up royally in the Garden? I mean, relatively speaking, it all seems like rather a minor-league miracle. You can reject the doctrine of the Immaculate Conception--but you might at least admit that it's all rather a beautiful teaching. Besides, the Rosary's a lovely prayer--absolutely beyond even the possibility of deceit, I should say. Course I keep the beads in my pocket when I'm out muttering the Ave's to myself--don't want to offend anyone, I reckon.

Anyhow, I really had only one thing to say, but I still can't remember it.

Have a good day. And don't lose sight of our common goal: Down with the Obamanation!

QuoVadisAnima| 7.10.10 @ 4:52AM

KyMouse,

I appreciate your response. I wish I had the time and the space to answer all your points as fully as they deserve, but unfortunately, I have little of either. I'll do what I can.

I am not unaware of the terrible ignorance among most Catholics these days as I was once one of them. I could easily respond that more & more people are reading the Bible for themselves and starting more & more new denominations as we humans fracture Our Lord's Church into more & more pieces. This is not obedient to the will of the Lord who prayed for our unity before He died, "that they may be one, even as we are one". [Jn 17:11]

And also goes against Scripture:
1 Cor 1 [10] I appeal to you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that all of you agree and that there be no dissensions among you, but that you be united in the same mind and the same judgment.

Eph 4 [13] until we all attain to the unity of the faith and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to mature manhood, to the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ;

1Pet.3 [8] Finally, all of you, have unity of spirit, sympathy, love of the brethren, a tender heart and a humble mind.

Phil.2
[1] So if there is any encouragement in Christ, any incentive of love, any participation in the Spirit, any affection and sympathy,
[2] complete my joy by being of the same mind, having the same love, being in full accord and of one mind.

Have you heard of the Coming Home Network? There are so many pastors from other denominations who are converting to the Catholic faith that they formed a support group to help them with the transition. Read the early Church Fathers (the original works are all available online so that you can avoid creative editors with agendas) and ask yourself which modern church most closely resembles the worship & beliefs of the early Church. A Pentecostal pastor named Alex Jones did (no relation to the radio personality), and after sharing their writings with his congregation, most of them followed him into the Church as well!

However, Truth is not determined by democracy - in fact, Scripture warns us that "the road most travelled" is not going to take us anywhere we want to go - so statistics are really meaningless here.

The Gospels were written to share the Good News about the Christ - and even there they tell you that not all about Him is contained therein, for example:
John.21 [25] But there are also many other things which Jesus did; were every one of them to be written, I suppose that the world itself could not contain the books that would be written.
So it makes little sense to fault it for not stating everything when it tells you that it doesn't contain everything there is to know. Most of what we know about the Blessed Virgin is implicit, but then so is the Incarnation & the Trinity - are they insignificant because of that? Of course not.

Mary is described as "the mother of Jesus" in Scripture because there are 4 different Marys in there! If you do a keyword search on the name, "Mary", you will note that the other Marys are also described according to whom their children were such as in
Mark.15
[40] There were also women looking on from afar, among whom were Mary Mag'dalene, and Mary the mother of James the younger and of Joses, and Salo'me,
[47] Mary Mag'dalene and Mary the mother of Joses saw where he was laid.
The very first public miracle that Our Lord did and the beginning of His public ministry was at His mother's request when she *interceded* for the newlyweds at the wedding in Cana (Jn 2). She was His first disciple. She was there from the Incarnation thru the Crucifixion all the way to Pentecost. Scripture is very clear that Mary was special to God as the Lord Himself tells us NOT because she was His incubator for 9 months who He tossed aside when He was done using her, but because she "heard the Word of God & kept it" [Lk 11:27-28] "treasuring it in her heart" [Lk 2:19]

As far as Mary not being your mother, how can you be adopted into the FAMILY of God and reject Jesus' mother as your own? God gave us a Commandment about honoring our father AND our mother - why are so many Christians willing to believe that Jesus would dishonor His Father by dishonoring His Father's Commandment to honor His mother? To claim that Jesus diminished her in any way is to accuse Him of dishonoring His mother and therefore breaking the Commandment. It would be a sin and we know that Jesus was like us in all things BUT sin. The rejoinder that some make arguing that Mary only gave birth to Jesus' earthly body is silly since ALL mothers only give birth to the earthly bodies of their children. Jesus was simply pointing out in that passage, along the same lines as He had in Lk 11 but in a simpler way, that it was Mary's discipleship that made her special to Him, not the fact that His body had been formed from hers, and that though we could not share in that physical relationship, the spiritual relationship of discipleship is something that we can all aspire to and thereby also be a part of His family.

The interpretation you are holding would have Him publicly disowning His own mother - and were that true, the crowd would have been (understandably) outraged at such a blatant offense against the Commandments of God.

One of the biggest problems between Catholicism and the more modern denominations is that your concept of worship is limited to prayer - but prayer is simply petition: http://www.thefreedictionary.com/pray
Even the word "worship" is not strictly used in the sense of the adoration & offering of sacrifice that one gives to a deity: http://www.thefreedictionary.com/worship

As support for your contention, you point to Scripture as proof that kneeling & bowing to anyone but God is wrongful worship and receives correction. But there are other instances in Scripture, where people similarly knelt or bowed and received no rebuke. Here are just a few:
Gen 19 [1] The two angels came to Sodom in the evening; and Lot was sitting in the gate of Sodom. When Lot saw them, he rose to meet them, and bowed himself with his face to the earth,
Gen 23 [7] Abraham rose and bowed to the Hittites, the people of the land.
Jdt 14 [7] And when they raised him up he fell at Judith's feet, and knelt before her, and said, "Blessed are you in every tent of Judah! In every nation those who hear your name will be alarmed. (Reminiscent of "Blessed are you among women!... [Lk 1:42] and btw, Elizabeth had no compunction against calling Mary "Mother of my Lord")
Lk 24 [4] While they were perplexed about this, behold, two men stood by them in dazzling apparel;
[5] and as they were frightened and bowed their faces to the ground, the men said to them, "Why do you seek the living among the dead?

At any rate, here are multiple examples of kneeling & bowing (in fact, outright prostrating) that received no correction. So what is the difference between the incidences you cite & the ones that I cite? Clearly the intention of the one who is doing the act.

Peter does not tell Cornelius 'do not bow or kneel to me' and end it there. He tells him 'because I am a man as you are' which makes clear to us that Peter perceived that Cornelius' intentions were the error rather than the actions themselves (which wouldn't be surprising since he was converting from a paganism that deified the very human emperors leading Rome). To insist otherwise would be to put the other verses of Scripture in conflict with this one.

The tradition of kissing the pope's feet was a gesture that would have been readily recognized in those days - a gesture of submission to the authority of the office holder. Eventually it became a kissing of the pope's ring instead - the ring being another signature of the office. Nowadays even that is being moved away because the symbolic meaning has been nearly lost and is too open to misunderstanding (as demonstrated by your outrage), but such gestures are simply intended to honor the source of that authority rather than the individual currently holding it. It is clear that God honors the intentions of the heart - not public perceptions of one's intentions - so we should be more generous with the Christian benefit of the doubt until we actually know a person's intentions.

Additionally, if you look up "Gebirah", you will find that the Gebirah was the title for the mother of the Davidic king and she held the position of queen presumably because they had so many wives in that time. It was common to bring petitions to the queen mother in hopes that she would intercede with her son for your petition. Notice the example given us in 1 Kgs 2
[19] So Bathshe'ba went to King Solomon, to speak to him on behalf of Adoni'jah. And the king rose to meet her, ***and bowed down to her***; then he sat on his throne, and had a seat brought for the king's mother; ***and she sat on his right***.
[20] Then she said, "I have one small request to make of you; do not refuse me." And the king said to her, "Make your request, my mother; for I will not refuse you."

The point of this is to illustrate that the mother of the king did indeed have a traditional role in the Davidic Kingdom and one with which the Israelites would have been quite familiar. Bathsheba is certainly imperfect, but as I have already pointed out above from Scripture, Our Lord effectively tells us that Mary's was a heart after His own.

Lk 1:49 "for he who is mighty has done great things for me". You can't claim that the great thing He did for her was to make her His incubator because we have already seen from Scripture that she was more to Him than a physical vessel. "All generations shall call me blessed!" Mary & Elizabeth are moved to prophesy by the power of the Holy Spirit and we learn that all future generations will honor Mary. Honoring His mother is entirely Scriptural.

Veronica| 7.10.10 @ 6:25AM

Thank you for the explanations and the information... Most 'cradle' Catholics, like me were not Catechized properly and I learned a lot through personal discovery, RCIA and Faith formation in my church!
We need more people willing to educate others!
God Bless!

QuoVadisAnima| 7.11.10 @ 1:42AM

Thanks! Glad to know someone was reading it after all that work, lol!

If you would like to learn more, I highly recommend the works of Patrick Madrid and Dr. Scott Hahn especially.

The first formal Bible study I ever did was Dr. Hahn's "Our Father's Plan". From that point I empathetically understood what the disciples on the road to Emmaus felt! ;-)

Ralph Averill| 7.9.10 @ 9:14PM

"A scientist by training, Dr. Franciscis strives to understand both sides. He declares religion to be "irrational, by definition" but says science alone cannot explain some of the occurrences at Lourdes either. "
Science is incomplete by definition. A more correct statement would be, "Current science cannot explain some of the occurrences at Lourdes." As any scientist will tell you, there are many things current science cannot explain.
It is ludicrous in the extreme to have theologians, who have denied science for centuries, along with non-believing "scientists" who just happen to be passing through Lourdes (this is all too, too absurd,) to "rule" on whether an event can be explained by science or is a miracle.
It's all a miracle! And all gods are human inventions.

QuoVadisAnima| 7.10.10 @ 5:04AM

Actually, doctors & scientists look at each case to determine if there is any possible explanation outside of the miraculous before it goes any further. It would behoove you to emulate the objectivity of science by looking into the data available before reaching a conclusion. ;-)

At any rate, you have reminded me of one healing story in particular:

Alex Carrel's - Journey to Lourdes
Alex Carrel (1873-1944) is possibly the only Nobel-Prize winner (medicine, 1912) who witnessed a miraculous cure.

Professor Alex Carrel of the Lyons Medical University, went to the shrine of Our Lady of Lourdes as an unbeliever and ex-Catholic, to study "psychological improvements in health that are easily explained by the mass hysteria accompanying emotional demonstrations of faith." That's what he said when he met at Lourdes a fellow student from their medical university days. He added: "If a truly organic cure took place, that would be different. If Marie Ferrand was cured I would believe. But she will not be!" The woman had been in the same compartment of the Lourdes pilgrims' train that Carrel had traveled in from Paris. She was in the last stages of tubercular peritonitis, the hard mass of fluid in her stomach bulging ominously. Several times on the train journey she passed out and Carrel had given her morphine injections. He angrily jotted in his notebook that religion became fanaticism when it dragged dying patients like Ferrand halfway across France in the heat of midsummer - only for them to die in greater misery! At Lourdes he tried unsuccessfully to prevent the unconscious woman being taken to the outdoor blessing of the sick. By now half-dead, she was carried to the procession, the bishop blessed her with the Eucharist, and Carrel thought the hot sun was playing tricks with his eyesight! The death pallor had left her face! When the swollen stomach flattened out, he later wrote, he thought he was going mad. He accompanied Ferrand back to the hospital, where several other doctors examined her carefully and declared that the pathetic patient of several hours before was now cured.

Carrel had witnessed a physical miracle, the very one he said could not happed, but he "still could not believe." He walked alone for hours, struggling with his dilemma. He argued with himself that maybe there was something in the air at Lourdes that could be responsible for the cure, as yet unknown to science. No, he realized, that's rubbish! No hitherto unknown substance could selectively cure just one of the crowd, turning scientific laws of medicine topsy-turvy in the process. Was some other explanation possible then? His mind and emotions thrashed about without rest.

Now it was late at night, and Carrel was as confused as when he first saw the woman physically transformed. A group of Basque pilgrims passed him singing to the Virgin and entered the Rosary Basilica. He too entered the church and sat on a chair at the back. For the first time since school days, he prayed. "Gentle Virgin…take unto Thyself this uneasy sinner with the troubled heart…and intellectual pride…who has a dream of believing in Thee and of loving Thee with the shining spirit of the men of God." He walked out into the night, "absorbed in prayer." Eventually returning to his hotel room, Carrel took out his notebook and concluded his observations. "All preoccupations with hypotheses, theories, and intellectual doubts have vanished…Beneath the Holy Virgin's hand…certitude." It was now 3 a.m., he writes, and, enfolded in a peace that banished doubt, he slept like a child.

Carrel wrote that in 1903. In 1912, he was awarded the Nobel Prize for discovering new ways of suturing blood vessels and transplanting organs. His experience at Lourdes is told in his slim volume, Journey to Lourdes, a book that soon went into many languages.

Dr Carrel made no progress in the ancient human dilemma - Is the supernatural real? - until he prayed with a real desire to know, and with humility. God, through Mary, solved his dilemma.

(Excerpt from 'Psalms: Songs for the way Home' by Fr. Paul Glynn)