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Who Lost Turkey? Not Europe

By on 6.14.10 @ 6:08AM

But tell that to Defense Secretary Robert Gates.

Defense Secretary Robert Gates is upset. And he is vocal with his complaints. Not with the North Koreans or Iranians. Not with the Chinese or Russians. Not with the Palestinians or Israelis. And not with the Turks. 

He is upset with the Europeans. Because they have mistreated the Turks.

While visiting London he opined: “I personally think that if there is anything to the notion that Turkey is, if you will, moving eastward, it is, in my view, in no small part because it was pushed, and pushed by some in Europe refusing to give Turkey the kind of organic link to the West that Turkey sought.” Meaning, presumably, European Union membership.

The solution? “We have to think long and hard about … what we might be able to do to … make the stronger linkages with the West.” Meaning, presumably, European Union membership.

It was an astonishing performance. U.S. officials including presidents, like Barack Obama last year in Ankara, have routinely expressed their support for Turkey’s membership in the EU. But rarely have American policymakers so explicitly criticized the Europeans for not incorporating Turkey, or suggested that it will be their fault if we “lose” Turkey.

The argument, while not quite absurd, is flawed at several levels. 

Give the Turks their due. They are serious people; their country is a serious regional player. They have a lot of interests and face a lot of pressures completely unrelated to what transpires in Brussels.

First, the transformation of Turkish politics over the last decade has been dramatic. Secular nationalists of various ideological stripes have crashed and burned. Moderate Islamists have taken firm control. 

Equally important, elected civilians are finally pulling the controls of government away from the hands of the military and other members of the unelected elite which saw itself as the guardian of the Turkish republic and the vision of its founder, Kemal Ataturk. Whether this is good or bad is a matter of bitter dispute in the West — outsiders generally choose between the “democracy” and “secular” teams, with the former doing most of the winning these days. 

Second, the transformation of Turkish foreign policy is following a similar course. Ankara’s vote against the Iran sanctions resolution is merely the latest evidence of Turkey’s increasingly independent course.

But to talk about “losing” Turkey erroneously assumes that nation was America’s, or the West’s, to lose. That’s never been the case. Only during the Cold War was Ankara tightly allied with America and Europe. The collapse of the Soviet Union dissolved that important glue bonding Turkey and the West.

For a complex mix of reasons including power politics, ideology, and religion, Turkey has become a less reliable U.S. and European ally. Explanations range from more benign (Ankara simply has different interests) to more malign (the ruling party plans on creating an Islamic state). But the status of EU accession talks is not a terribly important factor.

Third, EU membership is not Washington’s business. It is not a geopolitical plum that U.S. policymakers get to give to America’s allies. Imagine the German Foreign Minister showing up in Ottawa or the British Foreign Secretary visiting Mexico City and declaiming about Washington’s irresponsible failure to form a North American Union.

European leaders have a responsibility to their peoples to decide whether Turkey fits within their continental community. That requires considering questions of poverty, culture, religion, and politics. The issue has badly divided EU members. It would have been irresponsible of European governments to have ignored the potential downsides of Turkish membership in hopes of keeping Ankara more firmly anchored to the West. 

What if the EU said yes and Turkey continued moving eastward anyway? Imagine Iran sitting in European councils.

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About the Author

Doug Bandow is a senior fellow at the Cato Institute. A former Special Assistant to President Ronald Reagan, he is the author and editor of several books, including The Politics of Plunder: Misgovernment in Washington (Transaction).

Letter to the Editor View all comments (64) |

Matt Pryor| 6.14.10 @ 6:16AM

What a great article, and refreshing to see a pragmatic and thoughtful approach to Turkey's situation.

I particularly like your last paragraph - if only more politicians took this advice this there would be far less fear and tension in the world.

Kenny| 6.14.10 @ 7:32AM

Letting Turkey into the EU would be like inviting cancer into your body.

loulou| 6.14.10 @ 11:56AM

Precisely. I couldn't have said it better myself!

Layla| 6.23.10 @ 1:28PM

Kenny, Turkey is not the cancer, people that think like you are the cancers. You nothing but a bigot.

John - TMF| 6.14.10 @ 7:32AM

What torpid nonsense....

This is something from the "Rodney King - Can't we just all get along?" wing of Libertarian Isolationism.

"Moderate Islamists have taken firm control. " That oxymoron speaks volumes about Mr. Bandow's repeated drops into foreign relations blather.

Turkey, turning into an Islamist state is a bad development made worse by its readily apparent dreams of some sort of Ne0-Ottoman Empire complete with an associated Caliphate.

If a Turkish - Iranian Islamic Axis forms, the resulting nuclear cobra will not be so easily dismissed.

The world is a small place, and the United States is preoccupied with its image in the mirror. We ignore the rise of an Islamic Empire at our peril.

Utopian fantasy does not a prudent foreign policy make.

-The Mighty Fahvaag

Will| 6.14.10 @ 7:56AM

Speaking of fantasy, I like your vision of a Turkish-Iranian Islamic Axis. It speaks of the utter stupidity that infects so many of the people on this website.

Cromulent| 6.14.10 @ 10:25AM

Except that Turkey and Iran have become more friendly of late. They certainly aren't the best of buddies. But they are closer.

Turkey and Russia too, more surprisingly to me.

John Navratil| 6.14.10 @ 4:44PM

And neither of them are too excited about the Kurds and their vision of an independant state. (Nor Iraq for that matter, but they are unlikely to get too chummy with the Iranians.)

mark| 6.17.10 @ 9:27AM

And thanks to us invading Iraq and knocking off Iran's enemy Saddam, Iran and Iraq have become more friendly as well. Since we knew this would happen, why the concern with Turkey?

Sheer BS. We're going broke knocking off Israel's enemies in the name of War on Terror. At least Russia learned from their mistake(Russia's Excellent Afghan Adventure). We certainly did not.

Ericof california| 6.17.10 @ 10:55PM

John Tmf: The nonsense you spew reflects th e utter ignorance fo most bloggers on this site. Why in God's name do we have to create enemies out of allies? Will you,for our country's sake remove the black glasses off your eyes and see the world as it is without your deep dark fantasis!

martin j smith| 6.14.10 @ 8:17AM

Turkey lost Turkey. My view is Turkey should no more be in NATO as the EU--but the Europeans lost Europe years ago--for the majority of nations I have little hope in Europe. Europeans have been in appeasement mode for years and look what it has gotten them ? And, one can argue that Both the US and Eureope "lost Iran" as well.

Gazza| 6.17.10 @ 6:27AM

"Europeans have been in appeasement mode for years and look what it has gotten them ?"

Care to elaborate what that is supposed to mean? Or this this just more neocon-inspired incoherent rambling?

Bianca| 6.17.10 @ 1:25PM

Yes, Europeans have been in the appeasement mode for years, and they know now the result. They have, under the friendly advice from Washington taken wholesale into EU countries of Eastern Europe, Baltics and chunks of Balkans. This was strictly for geopolitical purposes, as economically they were disasters. Having appeased some more, Europe mimicked Goldman Saks, and extended credit all over these places. Following the US style deindustrialization, these countries went on consuming imported goods. As the debts mounted, suddenly we blame European PIIGS, for "profilgacy". Yes, Europe has been appeasing, and has finally tasted the bitter fruit of that harvest.

Ken (Old Texican)| 6.14.10 @ 9:04AM

Doug,
Thank you. You raised the issues that needed to be raised. You have provoked the thoughts that needed provoking.

I have always considered Turkey only "the enemy of our enemy" ...or ally of convenience in the cold war... for both of us.
Am I the only one who can look ahead and see the "caliphate" emerging?

Eurabia has enough problems without open borders with Islam.
Ido seriously wonder if we are indeed in the midst of World War Four...with at best a President and commander in chief who is ambivalent about his loyalties.
Brrrrrrrrrrrr! (chills)
There is an article on the American Thinker today "What Did He Know, and when did he know it? I truly did get chills reading it.

James Pawlak | 6.14.10 @ 9:50AM

There was a time when protecting and saving the Christian Churches AND their daughter Western Civilization were worth the spending of human lives in various battles against Islamic aggression and terrorism.

The would-be Caliphs and Beys in Turkey's Islamic Party should note that history often is repeated and often moves in cycles. They should study the history of prior Turkish expansion and how the forces of that nation were stopped and largely destroyed by an aroused Europe at Khotyn, Vienna and Lepanto.

As weak as Europe now appears, it would take only an uprising by an Islamic minority in one part of the EU to spark a terrible revenge. You might recall that, for example, the Germans (Who have a large Turkish minority) can shift from a peaceable people to the most ruthless of warriors in a short time. The French, who do not like Melons, are as capable of exacting revenge of the most serious style. The Spanish might react by electing to repeat the rational acts of 1492AD when they expelled all Muslims from Iberia.

It might be well for the Turkish People to consider the above AND the progress that Great Nation has made under a very secular government.

Oh yes: There is not such person as a "moderate Muslim"; But, only jihadi in waiting.

Gazza| 6.17.10 @ 6:24AM

"There is not such person as a "moderate Muslim"; But, only jihadi in waiting"

That is pathetic rubbish, straight out of the Neocon-Lukid propaganda handbook. That someone in the developed world can hold such myopic, wrong-headed, ignorant views is utterly astonishing.

Jim| 6.17.10 @ 12:35PM

That post was a collection of dim-witted observations of the lowest order. Let's pick them apart:

"Germans (Who have a large Turkish minority) can shift from a peaceable people to the most ruthless of warriors in a short time. "

The german army can't supply enough troops for its special forces on account of applicants being fat, lazy, and not of a fighting mindset. 60 years of scorn has turned german men into servile and feminine pansies. About the only threat that Germans pose to anyone in Europe is boredom from a lack of charm or social skills.

"It might be well for the Turkish People to consider the above AND the progress that Great Nation has made under a very secular government. "

If secular governments are so great, why did you destroy one of the only shining exemplars in the middle east... that of saddam hussein in Iraq?

"There was a time when protecting and saving the Christian Churches AND their daughter Western Civilization were worth the spending of human lives in various battles against Islamic aggression and terrorism. "

Are you referring to the Crusades? The fall of Constantinople? I'm not sure what you are getting at.

If defending Christians from persecution is such a great idea, why did the United States withdraw its expeditionary force that was fighting the bolsheviks? The Bolsheviks and Stalinists murdered tens of millions of Christians and Muslims. The intellectual heirs of that tradition went on to found neo-conservativism (through people like Leo Strauss), which has a lock on modern american 'conservative' politics today. Not to mention that many of the worst murderers were eastern european jews (yagoda, beria, kaganovich) who retired to live a comfortable life in Israel. (which, incidentally, does not treat christians very nicely).

Bram| 6.14.10 @ 10:38AM

Good Article.
Forth - Last I checked, Gates is the Secretary of DEFENSE, not State. Know your place and shut-up when it isn't your turn to speak.

With all of the southern EU countries teetering on the brink of bankruptcy, the last thing the EU needs is another weak economy for northern Europe to support.

crookedwren| 6.14.10 @ 10:42AM

By the time this Administration is done, we won't have a true ally left.

He's good at insulting our friends and kowtowing (when he isn't literally kneeling and bowing) to those who hate us even more than our staunchest allies really do.

Thomas| 6.14.10 @ 10:48AM

While a largely well written piece directed at Washington's meddling in certain European affairs, it should be noted that the EU was correct and the pundits in Washington were not. After decades of increasing problems from within their own Islamic populations, the EU saw no reason to invite an Islamic and budding Islamist state into the EU. There is no evidence that lack of EU membership "drove" Turkey into the radical Islamist position recent events have clearly shown that it now occupies.

Rather, it has been the rise of the pan-Islamic AKP party that has moved Turkey away from the West. AKP has long espoused its Islamic political/religious beliefs and its current rise in popularity among the population of Turkey has placed it in a position to move the country in the direction that they desire, mainly to a position as the ruling hub of a pan-Islamic empire encompassing the Middle East, the Balkans and much of the Caucasus. As such, it is attempting to set Ankara up as an alternate Islamic governing nexus to Tehran, which has similar notions.

It is all about power and influence and the Turks feel that they can gain more of it from the East than the West.

Sarbo| 6.14.10 @ 1:39PM

Obama lost Islam when he imagined, in his Cairo speech, that Arabs were today's true muslims, the progenitors of the European Rennaissance. He had no idea, no conception, of the likes of Iran, Pakistan or Turkey as the new, and increasingly more powerful, standard bearers of Islam. His recent weakmindedness re the Turkish flotilla has served not only to weaken Israel but also Egypt, Saudi Arabia, Jordan and the Palestinian Authority. In short, the Arabs. Nobody loves the Arabs. But all hate the non-Arab muslim more.

Time will surely tell if this wasn't Obama's ultimate objective.

Tim| 6.14.10 @ 2:34PM

Turkey can never achieve greatness without Bacon.

Alan| 6.14.10 @ 4:54PM

The last thing Europe needs, is a rogue Islamic state who's invaded and occupying an EU member state, violating the air and sea of another EU member state, and openly creating a Turkey-Iran-Syria-Hamas-Hezbullah axis to pick fights with Israel. Turkish entry to the EU, would be the end of the EU.

Flatdog | 6.15.10 @ 12:10PM

Anything that brought the EUSSR crashing down would be a good thing. However Turkey would also be the death of most European countries within it too. We're already as good as overrun with Islamists as it is.

Whenever another country joins the EUCCP, Britain gets the lion's share of the migrant peasants. Great Britain is smaller than Kansas, and has an official population of 61 million people (excluding at least a million illegals that we know nothing about). We really don't need an influx of another 300,000 Turks on top of what we've got already.

If Robert Gates is so enthused with the idea of not "losing" Turkey, why doesn't he invite it to become the first crescent moon among the stars on Old Glory?

Ramon Santana| 6.17.10 @ 12:28PM

Alan, what in the world are you talking about? I'm assuming you're talking about Turkey? How's is Turkey a rogue state? Which EU state has Turkey invaded & is occupying? Who's air & sea is Turkey violating? On less you're stating that Israel is a EU member, which it's NOT! Why don't you get your facts right before making an ignoramus of yourself! Turkey is member of Nato, and an allied of the USA . Is quite interesting though, cause a portion of your writing(invading, violating air & sea of other states) is a fairly good description of what Israel has been doing for the last 40 years. You're pretty much living in Disney Land, or you're just a member of the "Hasbara" brigade like a few other bloggers on here.

Sukuma Twende| 6.17.10 @ 7:53PM

"Which EU state has Turkey invaded & is occupying? Who's air & sea is Turkey violating? On less you're stating that Israel is a EU member, which it's NOT! Why don't you get your facts right before making an ignoramus of yourself!"

Turkey is occupying the northern part of Cyprus, a EU state, with 40,000 troops after it ethnically cleansed all the Greek-Cypriots from there in 1974.
It is repeatedly violating Greece's air and sea, another EU member. In January 1996 it sent commandos to raise the Turkish flag on the greek islet of Imia. War was averted by Clinton's intervention.

So, Ramon, you gets your facts right instead of accusing others of being ignorant as you are completely wrong on those two counts. But you are right about Israel.

Orkan| 6.17.10 @ 8:21PM

Get your facts right.
(1) Cyprus was not an EU state at the time.
(2) Turkey sent its troops in under the treaty obligations it signed with Greece and Great Britain regarding the protection of its minority population. The stipulation was that if the minority population is in jeopardy then the signatory powers have the right to invade to protect said minority.
(3) In 1974 there was a coup in which greek cypriot "unionists" wanted to establish "enosis" with Greece. The coup leaders intended Cyprus to be immediately ceded to Greece without referendum. The coup leaders and the army factions behind them expressed no protections for the minority turkish population in the north. Turkey (rashly or not) invaded under this pretext.

So don't BS - tell the story with all of its parts! You are dishonest not to do so.

K.T.| 6.19.10 @ 2:52PM

(1) So? Are you suggesting that Turkey is exempt from the Rule of International Law and has license to invade and occupy any non-EU member country? Unfortunately for Turkey - and Cypriots of Turkish descent, who have been forcibly herded in the occupied north to do Turkey's biding and demographically fake its character - Cyprus IS now a member state of the EU and Turkey IS occupying part of the EU with 40,000 troops that dictate policy and election results in occupied northern Cyprus. Nicosia IS STILL the only divided European capital, Famagusta IS STILL a ghost town denied to its legitimate owners out of sheer cruelty, and nobody yet has, OR EVER WILL, recognise the illegitimate child it has been trying to raise there after the Rape of Cyprus in 1974.
(2) The guarantor powers' obligation were to act as guarantors of the Constitution and Territorial Integrity of Cyprus and have them restored to the pre-1974 status and not have them both butchered for the next 36 years!. The irony of it is that the very 'minority' it invaded and occupied northern Cyprus to 'protect', is now an intimidated minority to the imported and hated settlers from deep Anatolia Turkey has populated the occupied lands with, which is also the very same majority that voted in favour of the pro-Turkish Annan Plan at the Referendum of 2004, which by the way, is in itself a violation of international law - Occupying Settlers cannot vote in referendums, period!
But a criminal will continue committing crimes until he is caught, isolated or rehabilitated, and unfortunately, in Turkey's and Israel's case, the judges are either on the take or are the master minds of the crimes...

So how is that for more 'honesty' and more 'parts' to the Cyprus tragedy Orkan?

One more thing : Turkey and Israel deserve each other's animosity. There's nobody left to invade, occupy, harass and bully and they are now turning against each other. These are pseudo secular democracies where the Barracks and the Pulpit sway more power than the Parliament of the people. Force with impunity is their motto, while their supremacist and religious fundamentalism has shaped their shoot-em-first-from-the-hip militaristic impunity, which will also be their very downfall. It was inevitable that their serial acts of infamy, their war crimes and crimes against humanity would reach critical mass and have their true nature exposed for the world to see and judge.
We are witnessing the end of an era. Great historical changes are afoot. Power and brut force is an obsolete paradigm and a barbaric relic of the fast unravelling and imploding past. Truth and co-operation among nations rather than Deceit and confrontation is what will redeem our Humanity and save our planet from the toxic fallout of the ways adopted by the conceited powerful. Nations and their peoples will no longer excuse or turn a blind eye to the accumulated suffering and evil they have been responsible for. History will not be lenient any more for what they have done to their neighbours : Palestinians, Armenians, Pontian Greeks, Asia Minor Greeks, Kurds and more recently Cyprus. At last, the world has begun to "rage, rage, rage against the dying of the Light" and woe to those nations that fail to read the writing on the wall - the 'Times they are a-changing' indeed.

Timur| 6.23.10 @ 12:54PM

I am a Turkish Cypriot and would like to thank Turkey from the bottom of my heart for coming to help the remaining Turkish Cypriots in Cyprus in 1974. Turkey was able to stop the genocide perpetrated by the Greek Cypriot junta against the minority Turkish Cypriot population. 12,000 Turkish Cypriots civilians were murdered by the EOKA terrorist organisation, which was being helped and funded by Greece and helped by the Greek Cypriots in Cyprus. The EU didn’t batter an eye lid at the atrocities that were being committed against the Turkish Cypriots, despite the protests across the EU. God bless Turkey for sending its troops over to Cyprus. There would not be any Turkish Cypriots left in Cyprus. As for the EU losing Turkey, this is not true. Turkey is happy to do business with the EU as well as the Middle East. Turkey’s economy is growing very quickly; it is the EU that needs Turkey, not the other way around. Turkey has the 17th largest economy in the world and will continue to grow without restriction even since the global economic slowdown. Turkey has been flourishing with the economy is doing better than any EU country. Turkey is also an energy hub with many oil pipelines going through Turkey. I see that many people in here are racists or Zionists, these people who know nothing about Turkey, but wish to damage Turkey’s image with baseless lies, for their own racist reasons have not changed in decades. It seems that the EU has not gotten over being conquered by the Ottoman Empire. Ah well, i guess Turkey doesn’t really need the EU as much as the EU will need Turkey. Those of you who don’t believe me, time will tell. Watch this space...

san potkins| 7.22.10 @ 8:27PM

you spoke like a true paranoid social liberal; any one who doesn't agree is zenaphobic or racist; in the words of a proud young african: quite being a hater! Long before africans knew chains from europeans christians were in the chains of muslim arabs and turks. actually arabs opened up the african slave trade. Don't blame or hate a culture that had a rennaisance, beautiful cathedrals and an enlightenment for not wanting to open up its "thighs" to modern turkey! Blame the turks for coveting what wasn't there's to begin with! have a nice day there!

Turksih| 10.12.10 @ 7:35AM

"occupying eu member state" .
- using the quarantee right to save Turkish people there, and you ( democracy deliverers to world) name it occupation.
eu member state - lol, eu hypocricy - basically they know the situation on island and yet they accepted the island.
and you totally ignore Turish air and sea control area? lol hate like this one i've never seen.
i as a Turk, do not want to enter eu, (will probably collapse within a new future) and i hope my government never stand back on Turkish Republic of North Cyprus issue and etc.
i think we must reconsider our foreign policies about west countries. what we get from Iraq war? suffer from economy, and i wont let my governers to do same at Iran. why you do not give sanctions on your own neighbours?
we know west and their policies very well, we learned it in Sevres treaty, and other policies very well. if there is a problem in Balkans or Middle East, west must check itself. we ruled these areas for over centuries without any problem.so go check ur policies.
long live Turkiye.... "sun rises from east"

JJ| 6.14.10 @ 7:51PM

Isn't Gates doing just what Obama said we shouldn't do anymore -- lecture. Oh the arrogance of Gates going "cowboy" and all that ---- LOL.

And I thought it as Hillary's job to run around the world lecturing and scolding everyone.

Besides they can't let Turkey in the EU -- Turkey has a balanced budget and some balls. They just don't fit.

Maybe we could offer Turkey some "sticks and carrots" (Obama words) to get them to like us again -- ya' know give 'em the Chicago treatment.

Adam| 6.14.10 @ 8:05PM

this article does not impress me in the slightest. Like the author, adversaries of american involvement in turkey's eu membership aspirations or outright opponents of turkish eu membership, commonly express the question how americans would feel if europeans would press the us for mexicans USA membership. This argument is childishly absurd.. Mexico is not knocking on US doors for USA membership, neither is mexico engaged in any kind of membership negotation talks. Oops their goes your argument.

Moreover, the author states that a Turkish EU membership would not guarantee Turkey's allignment with "Western" interests. But what constitutes "Western" interests anyway. Italy's EU membership has not stopped it from forming intimate relationships with the Russia of Putin...Putin can hardly be conceived as the quintessence of "Western interests" or values.

Sir, I admire your efforts, but your article is flawed in certain respects. Defence secretary Gates short remarks on the other hand hits the nail right on the head.

Jackgn| 6.14.10 @ 8:19PM

Proves my point. Islam is a gutter religion!!!

Melisa| 6.21.10 @ 2:51PM

But a Pharisee named Gamaliel, a teacher of the Law, respected by all the people, stood up in the Council and gave orders to put the men outside for a short time. And he said to them, "Men of Israel, take care what you propose to do with these men. "For some time ago Theudas rose up, claiming to be somebody, and a group of about four hundred men joined up with him. But he was killed, and all who followed him were dispersed and came to nothing. After this man, Judas of Galilee rose up in the days of the census and drew away some people after him; he too perished, and all those who followed him were scattered. "So in the present case, I say to you, stay away from these men and let them alone, for if this plan or action is of men, it will be overthrown; but if it is of God, you will not be able to overthrow them; or else you may even be found fighting against God." Acts 5:34-39
Think again:))) and don't forget every religion has a spark of God whether you like or not. Do not disrespect...

Will| 6.14.10 @ 8:37PM

I am still uncertain why President Bush picked Gates but I never trusted this guy. He now willingly works for our Alien President which says volumes for his character and political stance.

Christopher Holland| 6.14.10 @ 9:32PM

Why an earth does an islamic country want to be part of the west? They are not democracies and have no intention of becoming democracies, they despise western decadence, moral decay and weakness, they see countries with declining economies that are too gutless to defend themselves. They see an American President grovelling to tyrants, undermining his allies and criticising his own country. Anybody who thinks islamic counties want anything to do with the west needs his head read.

Gazza| 6.17.10 @ 7:30AM

What an idiotic rant. Firstly, Turkey IS a democracy, certainly more so than a rascist and apartheid nation like Israel which ruthlessly disenfranchises its non-jewish citizenry. Secondly, as for Europeans being "too gutless to defend themselves", against whom are you referring? Legally immigrating muslims who insist on retaining their own customs & culture and resist the arrogant right-wing xenophobes who demand they conform to "european values", whatever the hell that means? Finally, as for "an American President grovelling to tyrants" I presume you mean Obama gently cupping the hairy balls of the Big Bankster CEOs while tenderly administering a tongue lashing over their initaiting the GFC with their wanton greed and avarice?

Melisa | 6.21.10 @ 2:31PM

I am a Turkish citizen and first time I am hearing that Turkey is an Islamic country. What are you? an elementary school student? Well, in Turkey we have a saying "it is not shame not to know but it is shame not to learn"...Therefore, I am teaching you. Turkey is a secular social democratic Republic.
An Islamic country is the one that is run by Sharia Law like Iran and Saudi Arabia...A country with a Moslem population does not make it an Islamic nation. Now you know...
Ciao bella

sanpotkins| 7.22.10 @ 8:42PM

we don't care if your secular or not. Secularizing allowed modern Turkey to come into existence while hiding the shit they did to all sorts of europeans. Stufff that makes any part of the comparatively short history of the British Empire look like Disney! They were never made to pay any price whatsoever! America and England least of all should hold sway on this. In 1876 when sitting bull beat Custer, The turks murdered 20,000 bulgarian peasants. England and France blocked up the bosporus to prevent the cosacks and Russian Army from entering Constantanople. Arguably the real cause of world war one. Not to mention five centuries of sexual exploitation and murder. No amount of appologizing, suv driving, or secularizing will bring turkey into europe or make europeans like these aggressive little guys from central asia. Sorry.

Timur| 6.23.10 @ 1:06PM

@Christopher Holland, Why don’t you do some research on Turkey before coming into this forum and making a complete ass of yourself. Unbelievable!!

Turk| 6.15.10 @ 2:17PM

Gates is right! All Turks, including the ultrasecularists and the most pro-Western Turks, such as me, feel disapppointed at the EU now, and would like Turkey to find new markets and friends, which is what Turkey today is doing! It has nothing to do with Erdogan being Islamist or anything. He is a muslim, yes, but it is none of our business. I myself am going to vote for Erdogan this time, though I am not a believer of any religion, including Islam, and had always been a supporter of the Western looking Turkey, including the EU.

And Adam, what a great comment! Great to see some people are capable of seeing the truth! And the shift in Turkey has NOTHING to do with religion; 90% of Turks don't practice religion anyway. There IS a pro-religious party in Turkey, which fails to get more than 3% of votes in Turkey's election. If Erdogan was the Islamist that people claim him to be, he would fail to get more than 3%.

Turk| 6.15.10 @ 2:20PM

And to trolls like Cristopher Holland,

Turkey IS one of the most democratic countries ever! It was one of the first in the world to give women the right to vote and to be elected, for example. Today's Turkey elected Erdogan the PM only because it is more democratic now, such that it is able to elect even religious people, and there is nothing wrong with that as long as the religious person does not attempt to change the secular nature of the country, and Erdogan, of course, does not.

If there is one thing that is not democratic in Turkey, that is because it is an ultra secular country: Women in today's Turkey are not allowed to cover their head in universities, public schools, public buildings and such.

Ryan| 6.15.10 @ 2:54PM

Turkey has taken a step backwards.

I have known several Christian women who have gone to minister to the deplorable orphanages where disabled children are thrown into; the women were disrespected at the airport, had a difficult time in getting their own baggage, and were the only ones trying to do anything for the orphans there.

Christian converts are still shunned and martyred by their Muslim families. In many places, a person is considered Muslim if he or she is a Turk, simply by nationality.

If Turkey wants to join the modern world, its allies should be the West, not Iran and the Muslim world. Freedom does not lie in that direction.

Jim| 6.17.10 @ 12:40PM

Let's compare this to Israel.

Try handing out a bible in Israel, and see what happens.

Try putting up a Christmas tree.

Try buying land if you are a gentile/goyim.

Your anecdotal comments are a bit worrying, if true. Freedom of religion should be respected, if Turkey were to be a truly free and democratic state.

However, let's not push this 'west' stuff too far. Why is there a menorah (but not a christmas tree or christian cross) up on the lawn of the white house? Many western countries are becoming equally hostile to christianity, and the little pariah state of Israel is actively persecuting sects like the Jehovah's witnesses.

If Turkey is taking a step backwards, it is part of a chorus line.

Orkan| 6.17.10 @ 8:26PM

In many places in Israel, Muslim is equated with Arab. There is no greater expression of ignorant racism than this.

Melisa| 6.21.10 @ 2:43PM

Hmmm...How barbaric? Meanwhile a 13 year old girl was beaten like hell in the UK for being a Turk & Moslem last week...There is not a day passed without news about the killings of Turks in London or any other European city because they are considered Moslems. Not a day passes without burning a residence of Turkish families in Germany...
What a modern world!
We just hear words of hate, insults, lies, killings, injustice from this modern world. We hear constant non-sense excuses about our application to EU membership.
The freedom of EU is about puking hate only...An obsessed European hate towards Turks. If you feed anything by hate, you will in return receive only hate...Thanks....we no more want this modern world of HATE

Salander| 6.23.10 @ 5:36AM

The main reason why Turks are dying every day in the UK is gang warfare for the control of the heroin market and 'honour killings' within families, not persecution. Is it not true that a teenage girl in Northern Turkey was buried alive next to the chicken coop a few weeks ago because she dared to 'have relations with boys'? Please, do not lecture on hate and prejudice. That's like calling the kettle black.

'We just hear words of hate, insults, lies, killings, injustice from this modern world. We hear constant non-sense excuses about our application to EU membership'- If you don't like it, then stop trying to join the club. The EU doesn't need another million uneducated, poor immigrants flooding its job market, it's got enough problems as it is. Ask yourself what the general reaction would be if 400 000 Germans emigrated to Turkey and took over entire neighborhoods..actually don't bother answering. We all know what the reaction would be (as we have seen from the various ethnic cleanses your country has committed in the past, I think it's safe to say that those poor Germans would end up on a spit), and stop portraying Turkey and its citizens as a victim.

Your politicians seem to suffer from that megalomaniac syndrome that your founder Kemal Ataturk suffered from (hallucinations caused by untreated gonorrhea/syphilis-not sure which-which he acquired while raping and pillaging through the former Ottoman Empire. Fact.) Erdogan tried to push his country's interests into the EU, but alas, who who want a state hellbent on genocides and ethnic cleansing (please, just read up on the Armenian massacre before you start ranting) in their club? He knows it, and he's now making a turn towards more familial ground-the Middle Eastern world, which he hopes to charm with promises of open markets and supplies. Please. 'Puking hate'?-that's a bit rich coming from a Turk.

marcus| 6.16.10 @ 10:26AM

It's not his business but unfortunately he is right. Europe lost Turkey, according to surveys most of turks dont want to join EU. Why they wants? EU is sick man, did you remember this name? Yes ottomans was sick man of europe and now EU is sick man. EU economy is sick, greece,hungary,italy,spain? What about euro? What about irreversible low fertility rate? Millions of turks living in Germany and they are important part of work power. What happens if they decide to go back? What about high labour costs and factories moving china? Who cares Turkish religion? There millions of muslims living europe and researches shows muslims will be major part of europe in just several decades. Who cares ethnic origin? What about black coloured french and british citizens? What about arabs? What about Turks? etc.

I cant understand some prime ministers, Who cares Cyprus,Bulgaria,Romania etc. Whats the benefit from these countries? Work Power? Industry, energy sources, geo-strategic location? and They don't let turkey join because its not suitable for EU benefits. Yeah it's very meaningful.

S.L. Toddard| 6.16.10 @ 7:50PM

"If extending EU membership would generate a more liberal political order and pro-Western foreign policy in Turkey -- a major if -- then the Europeans should give the issue due weight."

No they shouldn't. Still, the foolishness of other peoples is not the concern of Americans. Our concern is the foolishness of our own gov't, which should remove the REDWOOD FOREST from its eye before pointing to the speck in its brother's. Until the rule of law is re-established our government will continue to lack any moral authority , because We The People who allowed this usurpation have none to give to it.

ACynic| 6.16.10 @ 8:52PM

Turkey is not for anyone to lose or gain.
This notion suggests that the Turks are stupid morons just waiting for someone to invite them to a party.
What crap.
Turkey will do what they feel is in their best interest. It's that simple. Right now, that is NOT ceding to Iran control of the Middle East; there is no way the Turks will allow the Persians to hold sway over the Arabian Peninsula; which was Turkish property for 500 years until 1917. By the way, Persians and Turks both consider Arabs beneath contempt. By their recent actions the Turks have demonstrated to the Persians that Turks live in the neighborhood too.
Persian will get nukes, no doubt, but Turkey could conquer Iran , literally , in two weeks and using typical Turkish fighting methods - extreme brutality and terror, with no regard for civilian casualties .
The Arabs are fear (and hate) the Persians, but are literally scared sh^^less of the Turks.

vtwin| 6.17.10 @ 1:06AM

Answer: the USA, support for Israel, the invasion of Afghanistan, the invasion of Iraq, the attacks in Pakistan, the treats against Iran….

ghouri| 6.17.10 @ 6:48AM

I have gone through all the comments made on Turkey and even thinking of Chritians and the West. Turkey will never get a membership and it is good for Turkey. As a defence man Gates is right and it will weaken NATO.
Their is propaganda war fundamentalist, jihadi, terrorist extremist etc. We believe on Fundament i.e. Koran and are proud to be. We are extremist as we try to live according to the teachings of Islam. We are Jihadi as to remove unjustice and keep our independance. We don,t follow blindly and we don,t force any body. One thing must be clear in mind we don,t believe in fantasies but real problems and their solutions. To fight for independance is not a terrorist is a freadom fighter.

Paul| 6.17.10 @ 10:12AM

Turkey's government is not a moderate Islamic one. It is radical and getting more radical. That is Erdogan's background which the foreign policy establishment (like Mr. Bandow?) never bothered to look into. It was a mistake, for example, for Jewish lobbying groups such as the ADL and AJC
(see www.NoPlaceForDenial.com) to support Turkish denial of the Armenian genocide. They and too many US politicians sold their souls to Turkey for nothing. Now the Woodrow Wilson Center in DC, which is funded by the US taxpayer, has just gone to Turkey (today, June 17) to give the Turkish foreign minister its top award at a fundraising dinner where it will collect money from Turks and Turkish corporations. How misguided is that? Very misguided. It would have been nice for Mr. Bandow and others to have written about this. After all, it has been known for nearly two months. Even President Wilson's descendant, Donald Wilson Bush, objects to giving Turkey this award.
Also:

http://www.countercurrents.org/boyajian060510.htm

Tim| 6.17.10 @ 11:14AM

A refreshing and splendid article. If only American politicians took Mr Bandow's advice in both foreign and domestic matters. Unfortunately, our own "deep state" thrives on crisis.

Ross Vassilev| 6.17.10 @ 1:31PM

"Third, EU membership is not ... a geopolitical plum that U.S. policymakers get to give to America's allies."

Yes it is. Bulgaria and Romania were admitted into the EU at Washington's insistence to reward them for joining NATO. They are now part of the Axis of Evil that is headquartered in Washington.

Portia| 6.18.10 @ 11:22PM

The European judgement on Turkey is the one we should have made about Israel a long time ago: it is alien to our culture and values, and an economic and strategic liability. I can see the argument for the US overlooking some of Turkey's "issues" for the sake of bases, flyover rights and so forth, but Israel is about as useful and beneficial to us as a tick.

Nick| 6.30.10 @ 3:13PM

Turkey will never be in EU because we the peoples are totally opposed to it. But traitor scum politicians continue negotiating. We need to 'deal' with such traitors.

Turkey NEVER in EU, NEVER NEVER NEVER

fdsjk| 7.1.10 @ 5:09AM

beijing massage

AL MORAN| 10.4.10 @ 4:09AM

Hi,

I'm European, liberal, non conservative and still I want to write you and thank you for your article......
Argentina is not Europe
Australia is not Europe
TURKEY IS NOT EUROPE

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