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Among the Intellectualoids
Victimology 101
Tough love for the petit bourgeoisie? Who is the New York Times kidding?
In the Age of Obama one could be forgiven for assuming the failure of an interdisciplinary degree in religious and women’s studies to cover student loan payments (or much else) would be more badge of honor than crying shame.
After all, during the 2008 presidential campaign Michelle Obama frequently bemoaned the burden student loans placed on her and Barack in the years before his books became bestsellers — “It was like Jack and his magic beans,” she mused, though, as Byron York noted, Michelle’s salary at University of Chicago Hospital rocketing from $121,910 in 2004 to $316,962 after her husband’s election to the U.S. Senate was magical in its own way — yet the future First Lady nonetheless urged young smarty pants to “move out of the money-making industry and into the helping industry.”
“Don’t go into corporate America,” she pleaded, shooing virginal idealists away from the den of decadent suckers who apparently do nothing useful save foot the bill for whatever Obamian delusions of federal grandeur are to be found at the top of that statist beanstalk.
Alas, as Ron Lieber’s recent New York Times piece “Placing the Blame as Students Are Buried in Debt” demonstrates, such faux-martyr vows of poverty have consequences for those without access to supernatural legumes or patronage salaries. (The Congressional Budget Office’s assessment of how many magic beans will remain available to President Obama once healthcare reform is fully implemented was incomplete at press time.)
Lieber introduces us to a representative victim, Cortney Munna, holder of the previously mentioned interdisciplinary degree in religious and women’s studies, a New York University graduate with $100,000 in student loan debt currently recovering from “a blind faith that the investment would be worth it.”
Lieber commiserates writ large:
So in an eerie echo of the mortgage crisis, tens of thousands of people like Ms. Munna are facing a reckoning. They and their families made borrowing decisions based more on emotion than reason, much as subprime borrowers assumed the value of their houses would always go up.
Most of us can sympathize: Overriding reason appears to be emotion’s primary function, often as not. Sometimes you make a bad bet, and paying the piper is no fun, especially if Lieber’s dire predictions of “decades of payments, limited capacity to buy a home and a debt burden that can repel potential life partners” prove prescient. (The latter repercussion attests little for modern love…”Baby, you are so, so beautiful, our personalities are so compatible I feel like God himself wrote our eHarmony profiles, but before we consummate this union, mind if I take a gander at your student loan balances?”) Welcome to the tribulations of the American middle class. At least you don’t have to haul your water home from a river every day.
HAVING ESTABLISHED THE REQUISITE semblance of individual accountability, Lieber goes off in search of the multi-headed, easy-to-vilify puppet master.
The “biggest share” of the blame, to the New York Times columnist’s mind, rests upon college financial aid officers who had “an obligation to counsel students like Ms. Munna, who got in too far over their heads”; to tell her, if necessary, “that she simply did not belong there.” Profligate Big Bank lenders, naturally, lurk in the shadows as well. Cortney’s mother agrees, insisting to Lieber, “Had somebody called me and said, ‘Do you have a clue where this is all headed?’ it would have been a slap in the face, but a slap in the face that I needed.” Mother, in fact, believes some N.Y.U. lackey should have explained to her daughter, “You are in deep doo-doo, little girl.”
Sensible enough in theory, I suppose, but, lord, imagine the uproar were such policies ever to be put into practice! Picture university administrators parsing potential students’ tax returns, then advising them to lower their aspirations according to their economic background. (Class war!) How many minutes would it take for a gender harassment complaint to be issued against the infantilizing sexist who pulled aside a women’s studies major to inveigh, “You are in deep doo-doo, little girl”? Pray tell, indeed, what the New York Times editorial page would think of lenders plugging liberal arts majors into some fancy Future Potential Earnings matrix before explaining to starry-eyed sucklings eager to study social work or musical theater or art history where exactly to go fly their ain’t-getting-no-edumacation kite?
Everybody wants a slap in the face…until they get a slap in the face.
Hell, the government is contemplating ways to subsidize and regulate media as if it were a public utility. Think the leviathan is going to sit by while provosts and chancellors set admission earnings standards closing every journalism school in the country? Uh huh. No one steals the new toy from Baby Big Government’s crib!
This is all, essentially, a scale model of Michelle Obama’s dystopia in which “many of our bright stars are going into corporate law or hedge-fund management.”
And it is not going to happen.
About the Author
Shawn Macomber is a contributing editor to The American Spectator.
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TPoole| 6.7.10 @ 7:21AM
This is a sad but inevitable result of the current thought that "college is a right". When I was 'ready for advanced education' the choices were clear, I could work m y way through or I could bankrupt my parents. I took a 'third option' and enlisted in the miltary where I got a far superior education over the next 23 years than I ever would have at any college. Perhaps it is time we did borrow one of the facets of European education, that is the one that, at about high school level, a determination is made that a student has the intelligence and drive to do well in university or he is directed into a course which would provide a adequate but not necessarily stellar life. In America we have too many MBA's who need a written diagram to tie their shoes but know business theory backward and forward.
Jack T.| 6.7.10 @ 9:57AM
I have to agree that the Europeans have it right on this aspect of education: at the high school level, extensive testing determines the aptitude of each student, and they are then funneled into the right higher education tracks or trade schools. It makes a lot more sense than the silly "study what you love" mantra U.S. kids get from counselors. Face it, higher ed is big business in this country. If a private college can get some naive kid on the hook for 100k in exchange for a worthless piece of paper, they will.
pugsley| 6.7.10 @ 2:40PM
Jack-the schools tried to go there back in the 60's. Told everyone their kids could take a test and the results would be used to do exactly that. All hell broke loose. People went nuts, how dare the government tell them what their kids were or could be just from some test. That program crashed and burned a quick death. Acctually it shot down about 15 years of testing by the schools who had files and tendencies on kids in all schools. In 69 I was dating a girl that worked in the office of our high school and she looked up my file, which revealed I was a solid B student with good forward thinking. Who knew, now I am the head of two corps. and a multi millionaire. Can a solid B student do that? Maybe I should check the file.
Occam's Tool| 6.7.10 @ 7:35PM
The beauty of our educational system is that WE DON'T do what the Europeans do. Check the comparative stats on research publications in the sciences, and the Nobel Prizes.
Taxpayer1234| 6.7.10 @ 11:24PM
I am a horrible fill-in-the-bubble test-taker. My SATs were so low that I was admitted to college "with reservations." I graduated with honors. Same with the GRE--my test scores were horrible; I was admitted with reservations; but I graduated with honors.
I shudder to think what my life would have been like if a test prevented me from pursuing my dream of a college education.
Alan Brooks| 6.7.10 @ 12:04PM
Even if everything the piece says is true, it leaves out the entirely apt comparison of 2009- 2010 with 1993- '94.
Then as now, so many are relieved to be rid of a disappointing Bush regime. You wont admit it because you are in denial-- you people only tacitly admit such when you rightly praise Reagan, and-- also rightly-- neglect to praise the lacklustre Bushes.
Plus, a certain number of you here supported both Bushes and want to validate your support-- even if it leads to your own detriments (that is to say, you make the same mistakes over & over).
Alan Brooks| 6.7.10 @ 12:13PM
And thanks to Jack T for being brave enough to admit at AS that European schools are better than American prisons... er, that is, um , schools.
confused| 6.7.10 @ 7:29AM
To those idiotic fools, welcome to the real world. When I lived in the US I learned very fast my life was my responsibility. I was a high school graduate and took every training programme that the companies offered. I was able to compete with college graduates and many times found I was the only one in my position who did not have a college degree. My first responsibility when I got paid was to budget for my rent, food, gas, electric and public transportation costs and if something was left over it was gravy. I had not a hope in hell of anyone bailing me out. Living within one's means is just basic commonsense. Why do these idiots feel like they should live like millionaires? This is what eliteism does. I often prayed to GOD to help me make it to the next paycheck and always did. Eventually I ended up with a very hefty salary and had enough to send to my parents and help them out. These idiots need to know that decisions have consequences just as elections do.
Alan Brooks| 6.7.10 @ 12:06PM
Then why do you want the govt to help your grandparents who don't even need any help?
Toolbag| 6.7.10 @ 4:38PM
The Government won't help our grandparents. We will. Thats something else America has lost is a true sense of family. My parents and grandparents supported me so I will do the same.
Appleby| 6.7.10 @ 7:31AM
Daddy always told us that we could have anything we wanted out of life, but neither we nor anybody else could have EVERYTHING we wanted. That is, each choice we make necessarily excludes other choices.
Generation Yne has been told exactly the opposite -- that they are Winners, that they deserve First Prize, that even if they do nothing they get a trophy for Trying Really Hard (even if that means sitting on the bench for the entire season) -- that if they take off five years to raise a child, they will re-enter the worke force at exactly the level their sisters who took no such break have reached -- that they deserve every single toy and game and gimmick and binkie they want, and somebody else must pay -- and that every one of their choices must be praised, worshipped and financed by Other People, simply because Generation Yne exists.
When I was bringing up my kids, we frequently met Mommies whose children were ruling their lives, and frequently these Mommies were amazed that my children were quiet, well behaved, gentlemanly, neat and clean. If anyone asked me *How do you get your children to behave so well?* one of the boys would say *She will kill us if we dont.*
Once a Mommy asked me how I got my younger boy, then about aged 8, to wear a suit and tie to church. My reply: *I laid it out on his bed and said Put That On* seemed to deeply startle her.
The bottom line is you reap what you sow. And if you sow the wind, not only you but your society will reap the whirlwind. As you see.
Jason| 6.7.10 @ 4:05PM
Hear, hear! Well and simply put. When my daughter was a about two years old a young mother came to my wife and I after church and asked why our daughter was so quiet and well behaved. "Because we expect her to be ", answered my wife.
Bill Hussein O'Stalin| 6.7.10 @ 7:40AM
The article skirts the issue but never identifies the real problem with all the programs mentioned but the culprit is central economic planning. It's what created the housing debacle and what has created a class of entitled individuals every time it's passed off as achievment. That would also include Michelle Obama in particular and her political philosphy.
These entitled individuals always feel they are victims, hence the Lily Ledbetter Law, which has destroyed another million executive jobs as they continue their trek overseas.
What ever happened to working while you are in college? I did it and graduated with a surplus of funds which I immediately invested into a successful business.
There's a darker side to Michelle Obama which is the result of her collectivist mindset. She hates America. She hates achievement. She also hates whites.
Evidence of this can be found in her statement, "For the first time in my adult lifetime, I'm really proud of my country, and not just because Barack has done well, but because I think people are hungry for change."
The change she refers to is the destruction of individual wealth and the individual in which the individual is changed into part of a group, and it's only the contribution to the group that counts, as the individual becomes a government mule, carrying his paycheck so that various government entities can pick it clean.
As far as her hatred of whites, it can't be disputed. Michelle Obama sat in an alleged church for 20 years listening to unsophisticated hate whitey anti-American sermons. The media in this country has yet to fully explore that treacherous relationship.
There isn't any audacity or hope pending in the Obama White House. It's the same old collectivist policies which have failed everywhere they've been attempted.
confused| 6.7.10 @ 11:42AM
Sir,
You are a gentleman and very up todate. I agree with you 100%. God if we only had more like you. God Bless.
Alan Brooks| 6.7.10 @ 12:10PM
"That would also include Michelle Obama in particular and her political philosphy."
Oh! so Barack is somewhat more self-reliant than Michelle? thanks for admitting it.
Bill Hussein O'Stalin| 6.7.10 @ 3:20PM
If you consider being a tax collecting commie wannabe who hates America, is inexperienced and doesn't know how to do much except read from a teleprompter, who buys into the Jeremiah Wright hate America first ideology as self reliant, then you have a point.
Occam's Tool| 6.7.10 @ 7:37PM
No, Alan, they're both scumbags.
mary h| 6.7.10 @ 12:19PM
I, too, worked my way through college, but my tuition was only $700 a year, plus $100 for books, and I lived at home. My son, however, went to a state university out of town, and his tuition and room and board were about $15,000 a year. He has worked throughout his school career, but his pay didn't come close to covering his costs. He has a lot of debt for a good degree, mining engineering, but half his class have no jobs. He's done everything right and as of now, no way to pay it back.
Bill Hussein O'Stalin| 6.7.10 @ 4:04PM
To which I respond if you work hard enough you can work your way out of anything. If you really want to of course.
Toolbag| 6.7.10 @ 4:43PM
He can join the military. They will pay all of his student debts for four years of service. Not a bad gig. Teaches a lot and give a great headstart into life.
Stephie| 6.7.10 @ 7:58AM
And now, even if you are one of those millions that have the MBA, it doesn't guarantee you a well paying job, or even a job for that matter.
Does anyone really think obama will be voted out in 2012? He perpetually campaigns with his mountain of lies that people buy into. Today he is giving a commencemnt speech at a HIGHSCHOOL of all places! Will he promise them "FREE" college? It goes against my Christian way of thinking, but I hate these people that live in our White House.
Margie| 6.7.10 @ 1:07PM
Another speech at a high school? I hope he doesn't forget his stupid tele-prompter. Oh wait, I just insulted the poor teleprompter, calling it stupid, when after all, even the best scientists we have say that someday, even computers will be smarter than us. My bad.
Oh and having an MBA doesn't even guarantee that you can think straight. Perhaps we ought to hire the teleprompter to teach the MBA graduate a few things. No? Nah, bad idea.
JP| 6.7.10 @ 7:59AM
There is a simple rule of thumb: any activity that the federal government gets involved in will make said activty more expensive.
Back when I went to school (1992) I was able to work full time and take a 10 credit hour classload (Computer Science with a German minor). I went to a state univiersity, which cost $1400 a semester. I attended only 2 years of school as the skills I picked up were able to get me into the field without finishing a degree I really didn't need. But more importantly, I had no debt.
That would be impossible today, as the same school now I am told charges about $10,000 in tuition alone. A famous Catholic university down the road now charges $50,000 a year for tuition.
If anyone wishes to point fingers, look no farther than the federal government (which guarentees all school loans); the universities (which reap the windfalls and inflates the tuition); and high school guidence counselors (who push millions of unqualified students into post-secondary institutions). As the result of the influx of so many millions of students each year, schools have been able to increase tuition 5 times the rate of inflation (in many cases more).
The age of the prepetual student was born, as most activists go into grad schools with the intentions of getting PHDs in such worthless fields as Women Studies, Social Theory, and Gay Lit. In the process, they rack up over $100,000 in bills with no ability to pay them back. Like the athlete who spends 4 years playing a sport for a free education (which mainly involve drinking and fornicating), these grad students find that they wasted the best years of thier lives.
Probably the most over-rated degree is the MBA. The recession we are currently in was underwritten by thousands of these holders of advanced business degrees. We couldn't have gotten 10% unemployment without them.
The next crisis will feature millions of defaulted student loans
Alert1201| 6.7.10 @ 8:01AM
A lot of the blame falls on the parents. What mother or father would let their child do such a foolish thing? Did they not see what a waste of time such a degree would be and the expense involved at a private college? Where was their wise sagacious parental advice to their daughter? This girl probably never had to work a day in her life for anything until she left college. I remember my college days having to work 20-25 hours a week to help my parents pay for my studies while others with their own parents footing the bill or taking out loans partied night and day. To them it was just 4 more years on their daddy’s dole.
Right now my son is 14 and has been home schooled from the beginning. He has started a law care business and is making about $100 a week doing it and other odd jobs for neighbors. 3/4 of the money he makes is going to a college fund and I am matching it. He is busting his butt to get good grades, already preping for SATs so he can get a scholarship. Once he turns 16 he will take as many AP courses as he can. But none of this would be happening unless we his parents were pushing and motivating him. These parents that indulge their kids are doing their children no favors. Soon they will be crying afoul to the government for relief and we who have been wise and disciplined our children, who trained our them and instilled in them a sense of the practical wisdom needed for real life, we will be footing the bill for these irresponsible whiners.
Appleby| 6.7.10 @ 9:02PM
Bravo! Start teaching them that what they decide can make a difference as soon as they can reach up over the Lay Away Counter, and when they are old, they will understand patience and delayed gratification. Let them keep the money they get from selling their own stuff at the family yard sale, and teach them to read and understand those books that catalogue and price hockey cards -- and how much this is like buying stocks. But above all else, let them spend their own money and suffer the consequences of poor choices when they are young, and when they reach college age, they will not run up $100,000 worth of debt majoring in gender identity in rock and roll. Yes, university is not a trade school; but if you cannot use any of your education even to make life more interesting, why did you even go?
Shamus| 6.7.10 @ 8:06AM
There are plenty of jobs for college grads these days provided they are willing to move to China. The moral of this story is that if you want Communist government insist on the real thing.
Louis Jenkins| 6.7.10 @ 8:24AM
There's plenty of blame to go around. But since we're discussing the matter, why are colleges and universities constantly raising rates? Their rates have skyrocketed while we folks here in the trenches have had to make do. It's my understanding that one ivy league university could allow the students to attend free of charge because of their sumptious entitlement benefits. I'm not advocating a freeze in the rates, but man, they're never ceasing to jump upward from one year to the next.
Spike| 6.7.10 @ 10:47AM
Louis - I had seen an article a few months back on this issue. If I recall, I don't think it is/was so much that schools were raising rates, as the entitlement payments from State governments was drying up due to their deficits. This has caused the students portion of costs to rise. Further, it was these government funds that caused the [actual] costs to rise on the whole.
TennesseeVolunteer| 6.7.10 @ 8:26AM
a very good friend and former co worker is a fianancial aid Director at a private college. He told me that many of the students manipulate the financial aid rules to maximize the amount of cash they can take along with their tuition getting paid. Even though he knows they are manipulating the system, and that they are making bad decisions for their future, by law he cannot stop them.
a lot of the minority students in evening programs stay in schoolf or years because of the free money. Much of this money is not loans but grants that allow the students to get CASH!
Sara| 6.7.10 @ 8:34AM
Does anyone remember the Countrywide Mortgage* TV ads of a couple of years ago, begging college students to borrow "up to $40,000 a year" and hinting heavily that mom and dad could put their home up for collateral? That's when I knew something bad was about to happen.
My daughter has a friend who got her degree in Creative Writing then went for the masters, racking up debt all along. Now she owes more than $100,000 and her parents are encouraging her to go to law school, so that the re-payment of the debt can be postponed.
That is the most asinine piece of parenting ever known to man or woman. And apparently, they aren't alone.
* Countrywide has ruined us in so many ways.
JP| 6.7.10 @ 9:23AM
The crazy thing is, one doesn't need an MLA in creative writing to write. Hemmingway never once took a college course; and niether did Dickens. Both began thier careers working for newspapers -that is at the bottom of the jobs ladder. Pulitzer winner, the late Mike Royko began his career covering the late night crime beat.
Ted| 6.7.10 @ 12:56PM
Three Cheers for Royko!!!!
He'd have a field day doing stories on the asinine media today, let alone all the other things. I am sure old Slats Grobnik would have much to tell about the real Barack Obama and his Chicago connectionsl.
pugsley| 6.7.10 @ 2:59PM
Sarah-there is something for sure out there in the wind. My son graduated from law school last year and he said one of the things that the two and three L's would do was sit around and compare school loan debt. He reports that many, many of those kids were in hock for 100K-150K with no clue as to what or how they would pay it all back, and the recession hadn't really hit full force at that time! He said he was up at the court house the other day on a case and ran into one of those kids out in the hall and asked how he was doing. He said the guy kind of hung his head and said man I am looking for work. Seems as though lots of these young underemployeed lawyers are cruising the court house looking for people who have run into legal trouble and need a lawyer. Tough way to realize maybe being a lawyer wasn't all it was cracked up to be. Today though, no career is all that, but everyone still has to eat and pay bills, so as always we do what we have to do to get on down the road to better days.
Ret. Marine| 6.7.10 @ 8:54AM
Responsible parenting makes for responsible children, losers making children the home rulers expect you and I to pay for it. Did I miss something here. Oh, and by the way, I was once told by my parents that if I found myself in the cross-bar motel, I found myself there, so I could find my way out. Worked for me.
AMENBRO| 6.7.10 @ 10:15AM
Stupid is as stupid does.
You are what you eat.
You pay or you do not pay what you owe.
Our cheer-leading couple in chief I doubt seriously have ever paid for much of anything such as their questionable residential purchase.
Remember the sullen look cast across this millionairess' face during the campaign. SHE WASN'T PAYING FOR A GD THING THEN.
BJSLICK MY WILLIE BILLY CLINTON prostituting his personage in the form of a lottery to close his 40mil +possessing convenient other half's campaign debt.
Meanwhile all these people, the folks that are amassing the debt to go to college, for the first time in my 53y/o existence somehow feel they are not only entitled to the education but should also be forgiven of their debt.
Anybody out there remember the amazing effect & influence leadership or lack there of has on PEOPLES YAWL:????
My young hillbilly ass joined the USN served stateside & fleet-side Hospital & Fleet MARINE corpsman. Jimmah Carter screwed me out of the GI BILL with is post Viet Nam era GI BIL save 1 fer 2 in funds without interest. So they take a kid outta (meaning ME) the sticks plop my ass down in Montgomery County Maryland Navy National Medical Center and tell him to save for my educational bennies. Mont Co. at the time was the most expensive place on EARTH to live. i had to live in public housing due to there being no family housing at NNMC Bethesda. Got ym door kicked in repeatedly and lost what few possessions I had repeatedly. In 1976 E3 pay is like a bag of rice & beans in Cuba if you live in DC
My only saving grace was AL GORE decided to reinvent the GOV medically retired me & I got to go to college only thanks to two LIBERAL STUPID ASSES.
Now we got these two to deal with.
MILITARY SERVICE should be, "truckin-A-bubba & bubbettes", MAN-DI-TORY for all US chaps upon graduating High School for a period not to exceed 2 years unless further service is desired by the individual since everybody so feels so entitled to getting an eduction.
SICK part is you have to get a GD masters now to have the weight that a BS/BA once had thanks to these loving compassionate ever feeling and thinking liberals' dumbing down every GD thing to make it more egalitarian.
Sound off like you got a pair people. WHEN" IS ENOUGH,,,,,,,,,,,,,, ENOUGH"????????
JeffT| 6.7.10 @ 9:17AM
Parents need to know what future there is in a particular college major. Women's studies, like Latino, African-American, etc, "majors" are nearly worthless in the job market. Unless your kids are going to work for government, those majors are useless. Of course, the way things are going, the only jobs might just be the ones in government...thanks, Michelle, My Belle!
tdiinva| 6.7.10 @ 9:40AM
We need to re-evaluate what is meant by an elite univeristy and an elite student.
Elite means private and at the upper tier the Ivy Leagues in most minds. However, I would contend that this misplaced. The elite schools are the science and engineering colleges at the large public institutions like Cal Berkley, Wisconsin, Michigan, Illionis and North Carolina.
Elite students are capable of making rational decisions. It is not rational to be 100k or more in debt after four years regardless of your major. An elite student does not go to an Ivy league caliber school unless he rich or on scholarship.
A top student at the Univerisity of Minnesota is as good as the best at MIT and probably far better then the average student. He is also wiser because he graduates with same quality education with little or no debt. Having made better decisions at the beginning he/she will make better decision thoughout their lives. I would not hire a graduate from an Ivy League school who was heavily in debt. It shows that they cannot make a rational choice.
JP| 6.7.10 @ 10:19AM
Elite Schools offer only one thing that "non-elite schools" offer -social networking. I'm sure the top law school grad at the Univ of Minn is just as smart and as capable of the Harvard or Yale Law grad. But the high level clerkships, Wall St jobs, and K-Street jobs will go to the Yale and Harvard grads first. It's a viscious cycle of cronyism; most of the elite schools are no longer elite as far as academics go. The one thing they do offer is a huge boost to getting those coveted posts employed by other Ivy Leaguers.
tdiinva| 6.7.10 @ 10:42AM
What matters in the world you are talking about is who your parents were, not necessarily where you went to school. One my best friends in high school was the son of the founder and Chairman of major industrial corporation. He didn't even go to the UIUC. He went to the UI Chicago Circle and a thrid rate law school. He still ended up in the Wall Street Class of Lawyers. Why? Because his father knew people. He was also a pretty good lawyer as well. In fact much better in the court room then his Ivy League collegues.
You also picked the only place (Wall street and K-street) where those kinds of connections can matter. In academia it's department by department and most field of worth, i.e., science, engineering, mathematics and economics the top departments are about evenly mixed between public and private institutions.
In the non-financial world Ivy leaque MBAs are not really in demand.
JP| 6.7.10 @ 12:23PM
"In the non-financial world Ivy leaque MBAs are not really in demand."
Up to 2008, your comment was akin to saying that outside of software engineering a computer science degree from MIT or Cal Poly was not in great demand.
The financial sector pretty much determined our economy from 1992 onwards. The best paying jobs that an MBA could get you were all on Wall St. Law was the same way beginning in the 80s with Wall St and later K-Street. In 2006, even the receptionists at Bear Sterns received bonuses in excess of $50,000. The Wall St banks were the most coveted position for any ambitious MBA type. And the Ivy League and a few other elite business schools had the connections to them. A Cum Laude student with an MBA from Iowa St would have to wait behind a long line a middle of the road students with MBAs from Yale or Stanford.
tdiinva| 6.7.10 @ 1:04PM
Coveted by whom? You mistake what the social elite desires with what the rest population wants.
tdiinva| 6.7.10 @ 3:51PM
A degree from the University of Illinois Urbana-Champagin is the equal of Cal Tech and MIT. UIUC is where the modern information age was born and matured. Here is a partial list of the Untiversity's contribution:
The birth of high speed computing (The NSA financed ILLIAC series)
The physics of solid state devices and integrated circuits (Two Nobels for Professor John Bardine)
Web brousing (The Original Internet Explorer and Netscape Navigator were both based on the UofI's Mosaic browser.
Occam's Tool| 6.7.10 @ 7:41PM
MIT is not where I would be poking my finger saying "wasted money." More engineers than Women's Studies majors there. U of Minn, by the way, is a top 25 research university in the US. No slouch.
tdiinva| 6.7.10 @ 8:53PM
I'm knocking MIT on quality. If someone else is footing the bill by all means go but if there ar many public universities that will give you just as good an education for far less money even if you are an out of state student. No education is worth $100k in debt.
tdiinva| 6.7.10 @ 8:54PM
should read "...not knocking..."
amenbro| 6.7.10 @ 9:49AM
THE "EMPTY" SUITS COUPLE
Mouthpieces for the minority of billionaires to continue being BILLIONAIRES
How in the world did our country become capable of electing such a clueless couple into high office?
Clueless ceding one realizattion, "'HITFIRE MERLE long as we gets to get ours while claiming its all unfair life is so great.
321k as a HOSPITAL to do what????
Millionaires community organizing??????
How bout poignant purveyors of what the folks backstage use to make BILLIONS. Down here in NC we call that BULLSHIT
ColoradoWest| 6.7.10 @ 10:05AM
"supernatural legumes"...classic Macomber.
I love this guy's writing.
Stan Redmond| 6.7.10 @ 10:07AM
The whole college financing scheme is nothing more then redistribution of wealth plan and a welfare to work program for idiots who took Women's studies courses to become professors of women's studies. College indocrinates democrat voters and the democrats pay them pack with cash. Aside from hard sciences and disciplines (Medical, engineering, architecture, etc.) college is USELESS and is becoming harmful. It's probably not right of me to have a certain amount of schadenfreud meeting old high school alumni that went to a prestigious university and are still working at Starbucks.
Stephanie| 6.7.10 @ 12:05PM
What the hell is "Women's Studies?"
Sara| 6.7.10 @ 8:46PM
You know, I think the stupidest people on earth are teaching women's studies courses.
JP| 6.7.10 @ 10:15AM
The problem Stan, as I see it, is that there are very few fields that one could go into that can justify such a debt burden. Take engineerin (say mechanical). An engineer with a BS from a good state school will incur $80,000 (plus interest) of debt. His beginning salary will be maybe $45000. His peak salary on average will be about $90000. The total debt of $110,000 (tuition plus interest) will take 3 decades to pay-off. He may decide to incur more debt to get his MBA, and he may be able to earn as much as $120,000 during his peak earning years. But, with the extra tuition expenses, he could be 60 before paying off all of his loans.
If one gets a degree in Woman's Studies, and goes the entire route and gets a PHD, his/her peak earnings will easily match an engineer at the top of his game. Of course, tenured positions at even state colleges are difficult to find -especially in the humanities.
tdiinva| 6.7.10 @ 10:46AM
You are assuming that the student borrows all his money. State Univerisity tuitions are so low (relative to private schools) that a student from a middle class family could easily pay half the cost so at most he will have a $40K debt. The only reason I made my son take out a loan is to give him buy-in. He will have $20k worth of debt when he gets out.
alert1201| 6.7.10 @ 11:26AM
Another cost cutting idea is to consider the first two years at a community college and then the last two at a university. This will keep costs low for two reasons. First at a CC students can live at home and not have to pay room and board, a major cost, and CCs are usually much cheaper then universities. All they are really doing at a CC is getting ride of the garbage core classes. Many of these can be done in AP classes while they are in high school. AP courses are much cheaper then even CC courses and they look great on a transcript, giving possibility of scholarships.
JP| 6.7.10 @ 12:14PM
That's my point. Even $40K per degree is way above the inflation rate (if one goes back 20 years and comptes it). Most families with 3 or more children do not have the means to pay even half of the tuition.
The inflated prices have more to do with the federal government backing every single loan. The result is a glut of students going into college who have no business being there. My younger brother and I worked our way through college (he majored in engineering, I left shcool after 2 years to enter the field of computer networking). In those days tuition was only $65/credit hour. School only cost me $2000/year.
I suppose with the double whammy of outsourcing and the influx of so much cheap foreign labot (illegal), the trades are no longer a viable option for most young people. But, just the same a college degee in some soft subject qualifies a student for very little, and saddles him/her with a mountain of debt. I've met many fast food restaurant managers who college degrees in Poly sci or English.
Brad| 6.7.10 @ 12:16PM
Sorry JP, but I'm not following your logic (or math). Please tell me where someone with a degree in Women's Studies (as an example) will have the same earning power as someone with a degree in engineering. Your statement that "his/her peak earnings will easily match an engineer at the top of his game" is ludicrous. I am able to make this statement based on personal experience – all degrees are not created equal. That is why I have told my children that I encourage them to go to college, but to study something that will allow them to be an employed, contributing member of society once they graduate.
JP| 6.7.10 @ 3:45PM
My point was twofold:
1)The cost of earning a degree does not always correspond to future earnings. As a matter of fact, it rarely does anymore. What was once considered top notch jobs based on earnings (ie Medecine and Engineering) are more and more not worth either the costs nor what one can earn with such degrees. A person with a PHD in Poly Sci or Women's Studies, who holds down a tenured position earns more than a project manager with an MBA and Engineering Degree. if that Professor is also a Department Chair, he can earn well over $300,000 a year.
For whatever reasons, it doesn't pay to get fork out $60-100,000 to get a degree or advanced degree in science. The jobs are not just there anymore. Certainly the pay isn't.
tdiinva| 6.7.10 @ 3:59PM
Nonsense. The "highly paid" Ph.D in PoliSci or ethnic studies are few and far between. And I doubt that even the department chair earns more then $150k. Most holders of these degrees earn very little whether they hold a Ph.D or BA. It's like focusing on Peter Angelos and saying all lawyers make millions.
Occam's Tool| 6.7.10 @ 7:43PM
The Dept chairs at those places make more than $150 K. Women's studies and such crap tend to be concentrated in the elite schools.
martin j smith| 6.7.10 @ 10:15AM
What is needed is more Chris Christie -like leaders to say like it is and do not sugar coat problems In general terms if you do X this is what you get if you do Y this is what you get. Now choose.
I would add this: People have to have their attention drawn to the catastrophy in Europe--Greece bing a fine example and asked: Do you really want this ?
Darragh| 6.7.10 @ 10:21AM
Great piece. If you want a further laugh, read the piece the NYT had the other day (I think it's in one of the blogs) about colleges encouraging students to bring their dogs to college with them and also having pet-friendly dorms! It's amazing how we continue to think infantalizing young adults will serve them well.
The hilarious part was that most of the commentators, instead of critiquing the blatant insanity of this new perk for the Spoiled Generation, actually wrote to complain how the pets would affect THEIR children's allergies, be grounds for lawsuits, etc.
No wonder we're going down the tubes!
Pete| 6.7.10 @ 10:24AM
"At least you don't have to haul your water home from a river every day. "
Great stuff. You would think that all of the "Ethnic Studies" courses would point out the above and then perhaps highlight why the US used to be exceptional; that hard work and individual responsibility are the true paths to success. Instead, they are likely taught the exact opposite; that they are all victims and the successful are always oppressors. It is a cruel way to recruit voters.
Richard| 6.7.10 @ 10:51AM
A person should study "liberal arts" because he loves it not to get a job. Our victim should have also been learning some saleable skill like accounting while pursuing her intellectual interest.
alert1201| 6.7.10 @ 11:31AM
Good point. I got my decree in Computer Science to make a living and got a 2nd major in another area to perusing my intellectual interest. It just happened to be Math with contributed to my CS degree but I would have done the same thing if my interest were history or psychology. It was at a small state college and the tuition was cheap enough that a few extra courses did not cost that much extra money.
alert1201| 6.7.10 @ 11:33AM
I meant, "I got my degree ..." not "decree." Should have taken a few more English classes.
CHummel| 6.7.10 @ 12:18PM
A college degree that is earned by completing a reading list and attending seminars is worthless.
ojo grande| 6.7.10 @ 1:06PM
What would you expect with the mentality of Michele and Obama. They were given scholarships for most of their college stays. Obama applied for school aid as an Indonesian citizen to a Calfornia college and went to Harvard on full scholarship. Michele got into Princeton on scholarship not because she was a scholar but because of her gender and race. She was a mediocre student at best.
Michele story of hardship is bull... the main thing they have both been good at has been manipulating the system. They are the best grifter in the world!
Ned| 6.7.10 @ 1:31PM
As I have often told my sons (25 and 21 - a double grad and just finishing Junior year) - stupid is SUPPOSED to hurt.
If you are so ignorant that you don't understand the concept of value-for-your-money no government program is going to protect you from digging a big financial hole and falling in head first. $100K to get a "degree" in "women's studies"? I'm sure the little darling never considered what she could do with that (nothing) nor thought about living at home and going to a cheaper school (heaven forbid, she's ENTITLED to a boutique degree!)
Like the author, I can just imagine the shreiking and screaming that would arise if anyone were to suggest that just perhaps a "studies" degree is not worth the paper that the tuition bills will be printed on. And, that if that's what is desired from additional formal education perhaps funding it with borrowing is not the best decision. "You can't afford it..." is not something any college is ever going to say to a student... especially not someone persuing a "degree" in professional hysterics.
Reminds me of nothing so much as THE Evergreen State University. Just think, they could have sent their daughter there, and today instead of $100K in debt, they could have an "aid" ship named after her... the "Rachel" something...
jw| 6.7.10 @ 2:40PM
ojo grande. I'm not a fan of Michelle Obama, but I'm just curious; how do you know she was a "mediocre" student at Princeton? Does that mean her grades are out there for the public to see? If so, why aren't her husband's? I have not seen that question answered yet, have you?
loulou| 6.7.10 @ 7:55PM
Michelle was an affirmative action Princeton student. Did you read her senior thesis? Gibberish about suffering as a black at an elite school. I'd like to see her SAT and LSAT scores. I guarantee they are mediocre--at best.
Bill| 6.7.10 @ 2:52PM
Any person who is dumb enough to go $100,000.00 into debt in order to finance a university undergraduate degree in religious studies and womens' studies, whether in the USA or Europe, and thinks her degree will be sufficient for her to pay off that $100,000.00 plus interest is not running on all cylinders and doesn't get advice from people who are running on all cylinders. They're living in some fantasy land.
Very few people get to be Michelle Obama.
cuban pete| 6.7.10 @ 3:27PM
I was first male in my extended family,on either side, to graduate from college. One of my female cousins attended a state teachers' college. Had I not received an athletic scholarship I was bound for two years of JC and then on to a public regional school. I was blessed to have a bit of athletic ability , a slightly above room temperature IQ and a wonderful park supervisor who used his influence at his alma mater to get me "ride".
My high school sweetheart ,who became my wife, went to a local hospital for nurse's training.
That was a long time ago.
We told our two sons we would find a way to pay for an education at any school to which they could qualify. There were two rules. I had final approval on the major and they had four years to complete their degree on my dime.
My sons attended a small fairly expensive liberal arts college.
When the elder son advised he wished to major in philosophy I was a bit reluctant but agreed.
He graduated in four years, went on to an MA and has been fully employed and not asked for any money since he graduated. The younger son has been employed since graduation and has completed two masters which he paid for himself.
The point is if my family can do it any one can.
You defer gratification. Stay on task.
Luck comes when preparation meets opportunity.
Charles Stevens| 6.7.10 @ 4:03PM
There is are two issues being completely overlooked here..
(1) Just like healthcare, there is no downward pressure on the price of higher eduction, because ever-increasing government programs for both schools and students over the decades have completely distorted the cost structure. We now have millions of federal and state monies going to support utterly useless programs and professors engaged in multicultural, politically correct garbage.
(2) In addition, we have allowed professors of all programs to get away with instructional murder, in that they are so busy getting grants, performing research, and playing god to grad students, that they have almost completely ignored undergraduates. Meanwhile, undergrads getting churned like cattle through a faceless system are artificially propping up all the enormously expensive graduate labs and programs, to the detriment of everyone except the idiot savants who would be able to get an undergraduate degree no matter how miserable the actual instruction.
These problems are primarily political and structural in nature, but result in terrible economic repercussions. My solution set...
(1) No more federal money provided to either universities or students.
(2) Two kinds of higher educational institutions must be established and kept separate: those where profressors only teach (and do their utmost to teach very well), do not perform research, and publish only textbooks for existing educational instruction; those where professors do research and associated publishing, have costly labs, and cater mainly to graduate students. Trying to have both purposes embodied in one institution leads to poor results on both ends.
Why nobody has seen fit to address these issues or even notice them is beyond me. But the argument about whether some people should or should not go to college is a complete strawman, which in a free country that provides equality of opportunity (NOT results), does not deserve serious discussion.
jr| 6.7.10 @ 5:21PM
This is from the age of dinos - as in Helen Thomas. Had 1-3 jobs until about age 30 to pay for college and help (wife also working) support family. When I got finished with college, I owed money to no one. Owing money to the gubbermint, aside from the IRS should tell all listeners something. That is -- the gubbermint is into business that is the result of progressive movement plus assistance from conservatives and neutrals. If they cannot pay for it -- nothing! But I am all for contributory assistance. To the younger public educated people, I will help with worthy contributions to people who demonstrate that they need and could be further developed by higher education - at a non-gubbermint school.
Marc Jeric| 6.7.10 @ 6:57PM
We do not have to worry about all those student loans, now that Washington has nationalize that industry. Our commies and eco-nazis will choose who is qualified for those loans, and if they join any government employees union their debts will be forgiven.
Punchline| 6.7.10 @ 7:13PM
"most families with 3 or more children. . ." (oh, get out the violins) perhaps should have stopped at two, if they wanted all their children to have a college education and Daddy is not making enough money to ever educate the children he has brought into the world.. They also might have started saving the day each child is born. When the kid is old enough, make him kick in 10% of whatever he earns at a part time job - that is, if you make him earn anything. When Grandma gives him $100 for his birthday, make him put $10 of it ins his college fund. If she gives him $10 - save a dollar. It all adds up.
Or just let him buy whatever his heart desires from age 10 on up and you do the same. Then you can whine about the cost of student loans.
This reminds me of an old animated cartoon - about the Grasshopper and the Ant. The Grasshopper danced and sang throughout "Ohhh, the world owes me a livin' - -" until one bleak winter when the Ants had to take him in.
A young man of my acquaintance worked as lifeguard four years of high school - saved most of his money. Also did house painting. And, because of of a very high GPA, applied for and got several grants. Spared his parents some of the misery of putting him through school. But, oddly, for 18 years they knew the day was coming when they were going to pay his tuition - and they saved for that.
There are ways, besides applying for huge student loans one has no ability to repay or worse, no intention.
bettyandveronica| 6.7.10 @ 7:28PM
We helped raise our granddaughter, due to her parent's divorce. We helped with homework, attended school functions etc.. Her mother always explained to her that school was her main responsibility, and was to be taken seriously. She had wholesome fun, but learned, with help, to be a very good student, indeed, even a scholar. She now has full merit scholarships at her choice of 3 top universities..I have no clue what her IQ is, and am not sure it matters.
Parents who indulge and spoil their children, and do not encourage good study habits, are not doing their kids any favors in the long term. They have traded parenting for friendship with their kids, then expect these immature young folk to take on tens of thousands of debt, when they barely know how to make a sandwich, let alone get along in a very tough world..Some parents need to grow up.
DaveS| 6.7.10 @ 7:32PM
Whatever she says is kool-aid. Keep drinking, if you must. She's even got the chip-on-shoulder sneer down pretty well. George and Louise -ee (sic) Jefferson behaved better.
Clinton nee Publius| 6.7.10 @ 8:30PM
More Obamalev class warfare hypocrisy. Michelle blackmailed her way to the top as a race victim and then tells kids not to strive to be more and earn money, but to be poor schmucks and suck off the government teat. Wow. Great advice from a great communist.
ojo grande| 6.7.10 @ 9:03PM
jw
Michele said herself that her SATs were mediocre and she was surprised to be admitted into Princeton . But she was a black woman and knew the liberal bleeding hearts at Princeton might just overlook her qualifications and admit her. I read a portion of her senior thesis and it was beyond pathetic...she was an incredibly poor writer and her senior thesis was all about 'Victimhood' with the undermining suggestion that everyone at Princeton hated her because she was black...she and her husband have successfully used and abused the 'system' to climb to the top.
unraveled| 6.7.10 @ 10:19PM
Read the book, WHITE GUILT, it's a how-to for the Obamas. It works as long as we allow it.
unraveled| 6.7.10 @ 10:20PM
Make that a generation of Obamas.
Dave| 6.7.10 @ 11:04PM
Thank God that old twat Helen Thomas is gone.
Go back to the ovens you old bag.
Philip Isett| 6.8.10 @ 12:16AM
The youth (ignorant) vote, the black (racist) vote, and the independent (naive) vote combined for the greatest failure of democracy in modern times with the election of Obama. Their common fault was ignorance of the real world caused by bad (goverment) education, which has been standard in American public schools since about 1948 (as I recall) when federal aid to education was legislated as a part of Truman's "Fair Deal." The youth vote is hopeless and all we can pray for is that they will grow up some or fail to vote; the black vote is Obama's forever; only the naive vote may have learned something. But even if they have and we send the Democrats packing in November and in 2012, this or some other combination of foolishness and vice will be ready to prevail again in the not too distant future.
Yosemeti Sam| 6.8.10 @ 1:42AM
" Victimology 101 ...."
Lest we forget - remember the utter victimization of BHO and wife that, as in the past and now present and into the future they both have to park their butts on white-colored toilet seats
from time to time.
Oh - the indignation!
It never ends for them.
LOL.
Sophia | 6.9.10 @ 10:15AM
With Oprah vulgarly showing how many homes she owns and The Lady M wearing $500 sneakers to a homeless shelter, not to mention her gardening clothes (Yeah, I always do yardwork in black leather boots and a cashmere sweater, especially in a climate like Washington DC in the summertime), no one will ever convince me that these people don't love money. But its the REST of us that have to have ours redistributed.
ojo grande| 6.9.10 @ 11:10PM
Sophia,
Of course they love money...they are the perfect Marxist Commisars....they will be eating the very best, living in the very best, riding in the very best, wearing the very best including wearing $200,000 black diamond rings...but the American masses must be made to do without. Obama has told us we must do without, eat less, turn down our thermastats, etc...They just can't stand the thought of Americans having anything approaching luxurious... how they detest and envy us.
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