The American Spectator

Ret. Marine| 4.22.10 @ 7:07AM

Years, many years ago I was learned that a man's hand shake and his word was king. Oh those were the days. Today, how many teach and demand these same idea's as an honorable mention of one's intentions and good faith?
Funny isn't it. It took many years of the crooks mentality to be where we are today, the entire institutions be it of higher learning, banking, politicians, churches, etc. are for the most part largely corrupted.
I don't think the problem we as Americans are having today is trust, more than likely the "truth" is missing. The truth that 3/4 of the American electorate do not trust anyone outside of the sphere of their immediate family, and even
I have a few in my corner of whom I would not trust with my life in their hands, would verify to me at least the truth is seldom heard.
The truth of these matters in todays times is most all in the positions of power and wealth alike did not get there because they told the truth about their dealings and inter-working of their own power hungry mentality. Corruption is not a genetic comcept, it's learned. Until we as a people demand that the truth be told regarding anything and everything in our daily lives we will never learn to trust anyone, be it a politician or a preacher, it will have little regard for trust.

GringoBob| 4.22.10 @ 8:54AM

"right on" Retired Marine - I invite you to join Regular Folks United - there is a link at my website

GringoBob| 4.22.10 @ 8:57AM

whoops - fix the link

flyman8| 4.22.10 @ 2:32PM

Dear Retired Marine, sempre fi
I would pose the question: "Don't you think the real issue could be the breakdown of the family unit, the loss of the father figure etc have contributed greatly to the issue of trust?" Or lack of it. Of course I could was philosophical but that would not address the current issues. We are here and now and must take firm stands through whatever measure or venue you wish to make our voices heard. And we must do it in a manner those insulated, arrogant people in Washington will hear and adhere to. I don't know if the ballot will accomplish all but that is one of our choices. I'll cover your back and anyone else that will stand out there with me and take the heat.
Trust and Hope were promised to us. Let's take him to task and make him live up to the false promises.

flyman8| 4.22.10 @ 2:33PM

typo: wax philosophical

Ret. Marine| 4.22.10 @ 6:58PM

Flyman8, you are onto the begining of the problems. The main issue I have today with most around me is they have no sense of personal responsibility, be it before their God, fellow man or themselves. And yes I would have to agree to a certain extent the family structure is being destroyed by those who hold no truths before them. Rest assured though, they will be held to account one day in this life or the here-after.

Louis Jenkins| 4.22.10 @ 8:10AM

Who ya gonna trust? No one, particularly if they claim to be from the government. As far as shaking hands with the S-Bs, forget it. I have come a long way in a few months. No longer can I trust someone just because they say I have to do so.

Rmm| 4.22.10 @ 8:45AM

How many times do your ears have to be burned before concluding that some elites are incapable of any honest dialogue?
Our President has so lowered the bar for credibility and rank insults to anyone in disagreement, that it has become increasingly difficult to take this all seriously. In the short span of 15 months he personally has eroded any good will between the WH and the People to zilch.
All left wing ideologues, I am now convinced, should never come close to the levers of power again. Let O be the last.

Purpleguy| 4.22.10 @ 9:38PM

Well, you have your opinion - no facts to back up your point of view, but we all have our opinions, and I think you know what they compare to....

Rmm| 4.22.10 @ 11:19PM

What's up with the Purple anyway,
SEIU plant perhaps ?

Purpleguy| 4.23.10 @ 4:54PM

Please explain... I'm dying to know wtf you are talking about.

Rmm| 4.24.10 @ 8:48AM

Really,
In a nutshell, you do a drive-by with a twist of sarcasm, I send the same back to you. You can dish it out, but you can't take it?
Wah!

Purpleguy| 4.26.10 @ 9:40AM

Well, the joke loses it's humor when you have to explain it... I hope you keep your day job, 'cause sarcasm ain't your bag, Chuckie.

Bob From District 9| 4.23.10 @ 10:37AM

"How many times do your ears have to be burned before concluding that some elites are incapable of any honest dialogue?"

It is a sign of how low the debate has gone that "elite" is considered an insult. The Marines are considered the military elite. Is that bad?

If you can't put a name to it what do you actually know?

Eric(OfConservativeMind)| 4.23.10 @ 11:11AM

Unfortunately, "elite" has become a catch-all for the politicians, lobbyists, and all the other political and non-political interests that reside inside the Washington D.C. Beltway.

Elitism does explain the manner in which many of these people behave. These individuals are at the "levers of power" in the government, and consequently have little interest in the opinions of others, unless they happen to share an ideology.

Call that ideology what it is, it being Statism. Those who seek to expand the power and authority of the federal government(beyond Constitutional limits), usually through "progressive" means, are Statists, and they need to be rooted out of the metaphorical ground and not only brought to light, but put on the compost heap for all time.

You are correct, being "elite" should not be considered a bad thing. Those in the elite corps of our military deserve our respect.

We should have little use in this country for political "elites" who do nothing but line their pockets with government treasure whilst they propel our government to a top-heavy administrative State.

Term limits, anyone?

waterman3| 4.24.10 @ 1:31PM

a more appropriate label for these specimens might be an ELITIST, those who have self designated themselves as the elite, more suited to decide for and manage those whom they consider to be lower on the food chain.

and that ties into the biggest problem in america today, the cult of self worship. certainly, politicians are indicative of that cult, in fact they, along with the media/hollywood types, might be designated as the high priests and priestesses of the cult.

is it any suprise that belief in family, religion, and country has fallen by the wayside? when everyone operates from the basic assumption that they themselves are the supreme being in the universe, and the rest are here to just fulfil their wants and needs, it's no wonder at all that, for instance, the needs of their kids are subordinated to their "right to have a life of their own." same with any sort of sacrifice for their family, religion, or country. nothing could possibly be more important than me, Me, MEEEEE!

i blame the parents- once they decided to be pals, instead of parents, that pretty much indicated the endgame. it's easy to be a pal- all one has to do is be agreeable, and perhaps buy the next round. being a parent is infinitely harder, ESPECIALLY the chore of saying "no!" and making it stick.

these folks have the outlook of a beggar, as opposed to a warrior. a warrior humbles himself to no one, yet at the same time, he allows no one to humble themselves to him.

a beggar, on the other hand, will bow and scrape for whomever he deems to be higher in the pecking order, yet, conversely, he will demand those lower in life to bow and scrape to him.

this is the way chickens and other peckerheads keep score, and feed their egos..

Jim O'Brien| 4.22.10 @ 8:47AM

Is it November 2012 yet? Is it November 2010 yet? Obama would have made a good leader of the former USSR. He and his comrades (members of Cabinet, Bill Clinton, all Demo-Socialists in Congress) are busy trying to destroy this republic. They actually fear the Tea Party movement, because it represents the Constitution of the United States and individual freedom.

Dorrie| 4.22.10 @ 12:10PM

Interesting you mention USSR; if the general public weren't too lazy to read more people would have been warned by first-hand accounts of the Stalinist, Hitler, Mao takeovers and would see the parallels in our society. It began w/F.D.R. straying from the Constution in that he led MANY folks to believe that 'government' had an obligation to support them. From there it has snowballed. To name all the ills in our society would take volumes and no one can begin to cure them. It is like metastasized cancer on which politicians keep layering on band aids. As in other Communist countries, only an iron hand will bring people back to reality. That will come sooner than you think.

John Gelt| 4.22.10 @ 12:29PM

It began w/F.D.R. straying from the Constution in that he led MANY folks to believe that 'government' had an obligation to support them

You are right; he should have let those swine parasites die in the streets and soup lines.
Hopefully nobody in your family suffered during the depression.

Floradora| 4.22.10 @ 1:08PM

It's become a well known fact that FDR's policies extended the Depression by YEARS. Guess you didn't calculate that into your retort. I suppose FDR wanted to *continue* to let those "swine parasites" suffer during those years because his policies extended that grief through which the country lived.

Btw, this is a free America. The Federal Government was never meant to be nanny, babysitter, nose-wiper.

Sam Vaughn| 4.22.10 @ 3:38PM

I see quite a few have joined this intelligent board to muddy debate. John you are obviously one of them. Instead of engaging in a counterpoint argument that FDR's policies were right and reason's why you use childish insult's to avoid engagement. A coward indeed!

Dorrie| 4.22.10 @ 4:47PM

Yes, I lived through it, grubbing in the crabgrass to raise a few vegetables, gleaning farmers'fields after harvest for potatoes, killing rabbits w/a club for lack of ammunition, living in a two-room shack in a family of eight. I could go on, but would hate to bore you too much. You're obviously a product of the 'dumbing down of America'. Ignorance is bliss.

Jeanne| 4.22.10 @ 11:29PM

John,
Members of my family and many others suffered during the depression. I'm sickened by your message that we should have let "those swine parasites die in the streets and soup lines".
Shame on you.

flyman| 4.22.10 @ 2:39PM

And we need to do all we are able to continue the "movement" in order to establish a presence those "legal criminals" in the WH can respect. Keep your flags flying and your hearts filled with good thoughts: we will beat the b__t__rds.

Bob From District 9| 4.23.10 @ 10:39AM

The Tea Party Movement represents the financially well of older white males. All others are fractions of the membership.

If anyone fears the tea party movement it's because they are so deceptive. Then again, they are run out of Fox News and republican political consultants in California.

Radegunda| 4.24.10 @ 3:56AM

What data do you have to back up the "old rich white man" claim?

What evidence do you have about who is "running" the Tea Parties?

Are you really not aware that 40 percent of those who identify with the movement are not Republicans?

Why do you want to perpetuate the leftist policies that have put so many people out of work and will make everyone's children poorer and our medical care worse?

Carol Schmitt| 4.24.10 @ 12:12PM

I am a proud member of the tea party- NO, I am not old, not male, and certainly NOT well off with an income below 14k. I am also a registered independent! So much for your stereotype! I am not on the "govt dole, or taxpayer's back although I could qua;ify. I want the Govt out of my life. less spending, less Give aways" to those who will not work, more personal responsibility for our OWN lives, smaller govt. adherence to the Constitution, of which there is NONE by this communist administration. As one senator said last week- " I don't care about the constioution" That sums it up.

Ken (Old Texican)| 4.22.10 @ 8:48AM

Heh!
At the risk of being lame: "Trust...but verify"

...The same words President Reagan used vis a vis the communists in Russia and China.
Hmmmmm.

John Gelt| 4.22.10 @ 12:34PM

Would that be the same Reagan that gave America the biggest TAX INCREASE in American History?

jarhead| 4.22.10 @ 4:31PM

JG--another alien "V" for whom actuality (fact) is poison. May you choke on the phlegm of your gloating when our magnificent Constitution is returned to its rightful place in our governance on Nov 2nd. Enjoy the chutzpah of your ignorance. It won't last long.

Purpleguy| 4.22.10 @ 9:45PM

Nice ... and disgusting. The Constitution is back from Bush-Cheney palookaville, and the Conservative movement is going to the Lesbian Bondage Club. Good luck with Michael Steele, Caribou Barbie, Grandpa McCain, Turtle-face McConnell, and the twin teenagers - Eric Kantor and Paul Ryan. We'll see ya in 2010, 2012 and 2016, Democratic Wins all...

Eric(OfConservativeMind)| 4.23.10 @ 11:16AM

Indeed... Except that politicians like McCain are the reason the GOP functions the way it does today. Neo-Conservatives like McCain, Snowe, Graham and others will be expunged from the GOP if real conservatives have anything to say about it.

Radegunda| 4.24.10 @ 4:04AM

I'd love to see you trying to debate Paul Ryan or Eric Kantor. You'd be gasping for breath before you knew what hit you.
Ryan got your hero, the narcissistic punk Obozo, all bent out of shape because Ryan actually confronted him with facts and logic---something the punk Obozo rarely uses. Obozo doesn't even realize when he's contradicting himself, because he's not terribly bright.

Jeanne| 4.22.10 @ 11:31PM

John,
Where do you get your facts? Reagan cut taxes.

Bob From District 9| 4.23.10 @ 10:41AM

You are both right. Reagan cut taxes his first year. After that he raised taxes 6 out of his 7 remaining years.

Note: All of his recovery, poor as it was, followed his tax increases.

Also note, the debt load, the debt as a percent of the GDP, has increased after WWII only under anti-tax presidents.

Eric(OfConservativeMind)| 4.23.10 @ 11:33AM

Indeed. Reagan signed into effect a lamentable tax that was aimed at making people in the "upper-middle-class" pay their fair share of government revenue. This tax was not indexed for inflation, so it has continued to affect many people in the "middle-class" today.
Many politicians are hesitant to repeal the tax, because it generates a fairly high stream of revenue.

In tandem with slashing capital gains taxes and other taxes for the wealthy, Reagan did, unfortunately, grow the deficit through his financial policies.

Speaking from today's perspective, because of the cost of programs like SS and Medicare, the continuing war on poverty, war on drugs, wars against terrorism -- We are seeing a growing deficit. Unfortunately, nobody in Washington D.C. has the testicular fortitude to actually do anything to lower the burden this places on the taxpayer.

Given that 47% of individuals living in the U.S. do not truly pay anything into the tax system(because they get tax credits(subsidies, which were a lamentably bad Republican idea)and other benefits that outweigh their contributions), we have a serious problem in government today.

We are near a tipping point where less than 50% of the population will be working to subsidize the majority, and this does not bode well for the conservative ideal of government.

In order to rid ourselves of this current deficit, it appears that the U.S. government will have to raise taxes much higher for nearly everyone; Statists have no stomach for true reform, and thus will not fix leaky programs like Medicare and Social Security and other abuses of government funds and instead continue to add entitlements so voters will be enticed by the opium of Statism to vote Red and continue the growth of the State.

You heard me, RED! Kick those Statism-loving bureaucrats and politicians out of the government at every opportunity!

Bob From District 9| 4.23.10 @ 4:36PM

" Speaking from today's perspective, because of the cost of programs like SS and Medicare, the continuing war on poverty, war on drugs, wars against terrorism -- We are seeing a growing deficit. Unfortunately, nobody in Washington D.C. has the testicular fortitude to actually do anything to lower the burden this places on the taxpayer."

The deficit is due almost entirely to Bush's recession/near depression. And his tax cuts.

Remember, the debt as percentage of the GDP has only increased under anti-tax presidents, post WW2.

War and peace, recession and prosperity, democrat and republican, the debt load fell after WW2 from 122% of GDP to 32% GDP. Under Reagan, Bush I, and Bush II it went up, reaching nearly 90% GDP. Under Clinton it went down, but no where near enough to make up for Reagan and Bush I.

Oh, and the war on poverty was abandoned by republicans long ago. It was converted to the war on the poor. The poor in this country are by far the working poor.

waterman3| 4.24.10 @ 1:53PM

"Under Clinton it went down, but no where near enough to make up for Reagan and Bush I. "

"The deficit is due almost entirely to Bush's recession/near depression. And his tax cuts. "

actually, neither of these statements are true, but you probably knew that when you typed it in. reagan had to deal with a democratic majority personified by tip o'neill, a master prevaricator. tip used to say, sure we'll hold spending in check, and then he went the other way.

and the only reason clinton's spending was curbed was because of the republican takeover in 94. this started out well, but newt became the target of the media, and under the duress he reverted to rockefeller republicanism.

the one and only reason for the deficit is the penchant for politicians to boost their egos and make themselves feel good at the expense of others. when they speak of serving the public, they are referring to a big heaping helping of the public.

in fact, i can't remember a time in the last fifty years were i have been as thoroughly "serviced" as i have been of late, and that includes vietnam.

like that twilight zone episode, where they found that copy of the congressional record, with a dustjacket that said "to serve mankind," and it was only at the end of the show it was discovered to be a cookbook.

well, i believe the show is almost over, and the tea party is screaming, "it's a cookbook!"

of course, the waiters in the tuxes, congress, are ready for dessert.

sidebar: doesn't it seem ESPECIALLY insulting that members of congress insist on being referred to as the "honorable" so and so, when strictly as a matter of accuracy, honorable may be one of the last words that leap to mind when describing congressional antics and tomfoolery?

Bob From District 9| 4.23.10 @ 4:41PM

"Given that 47% of individuals living in the U.S. do not truly pay anything into the tax system(because they get tax credits(subsidies, which were a lamentably bad Republican idea)and other benefits that outweigh their contributions), we have a serious problem in government today. "

I am going to assume you are just repeating something you read from someone else. Mostly because what you posted is blatantly false.

In the real world anyone who spends any money pays taxes. The figure you quoted applies only to individual income taxes. And the main reason that has gone up in the last couple years is:
People Are Losing Their Jobs!

Before Bush managed to screw things up the DOL released a report on what portion of income people paid in taxes. Given in 5 groups. (Quintiles)

All 5 quintiles paid a portion in taxes in a fairly close range. The real difference is in which taxes each paid.

Further, little research is required to discover that the top Quintile paid about 50% of the total taxes, and got about 50% of income.

I don't see anything wrong with that.

Eric(OfConservativeMind)| 4.25.10 @ 5:40AM

Indeed, point taken. I made a grave misstatement there. On the other hand, what is this crap about the war on the poor? What policies have been advocated to make people poorer, other than restrictive tax and regulation policies that stifle economic growth?

George S| 4.22.10 @ 8:58AM

It is not about trust; it is all about self-interest. Can you trust that the government affordable housing program is not going to cause a disaster? Why would you care if you can get a mortgage without worrying about the annoyance of paying back on time. Can you trust that Medicare will not exceed 10 times its projected cost? Again, who cares if you are going to receive free medical care here and now when you have about twenty years left on the planet. Same thing with ObamaCare: if it gets you into the game without putting up skin, you're not going to care about what the promises are.

Once government gets into the business of raiding the treasury to enact programs that benefit people who do not have to pay taxes, then the one thing you can trust is that those people will gladly vote for that devil's bargain which exchanges short term benefits for gutting our Constitution by delegating unenumerated powers to the Congress.

Trust the government? We have no choice once we give them the power over our lives.

PolishKnight| 4.23.10 @ 9:52AM

It was amazing to me back in 2005 when I saw an obvious housing bubble how there was a bipartisan belief that one didn't exist. If there was an article in the spectator before it broke, I didn't see it.

Conservatives and liberals alike who owned homes that had shot up in value two or even four times fold smugly proclaimed that they were financial geniuses because "housing ALWAYS goes up!" and "location, location, location!" and told those who didn't own to hurry because, an I am not making this up, "if you don't buy now, then you'll never be able to afford to buy a house! You'll be homeless!"

Apparently, they were right for a short time about that: When NOBODY was able to buy their 3 bedroom suburban starter homes for a half million dollars, the market collapsed. Apparently, buyers can't pay money that it's impossible for them to have.

Even so, the market is still only halfway to correction since people, including conservatives, still believe that owning a home entitles them to wealth creation the same as, well, creating stuff (manufacturing, business development, etc.)

Bob From District 9| 4.23.10 @ 10:46AM

I'm not sure even you realize how right you are. All wealth is created by those who produce stuff. Manufacturing, mining, farming, and such.

Business development does not create wealth unless the business in question produces stuff.

All other forms of business move wealth around, or assist the "stuff" producers in doing their work.

Until we bring back the true wealth producers to this country we will not be able to truly recover.

Eric(OfConservativeMind)| 4.25.10 @ 5:45AM

Too bad our government is so predatory that it doesn't make sense for anyone to actually produce "stuff" or make investments to produce "stuff" here.

When taxes on the successful are constantly increased to pay for a debt load that includes social programs, bailout/slush funds, and legitimate governmental activities like funding a military, why would anyone want to invest in the U.S.?

Howard| 4.22.10 @ 9:24AM

I would argue liberals trust government (except for the Defense Department) more than conservatives do. That being said most Americans must be liberal. Whenever there is a problem, the default answer for many people is; "the government should ........ So, while it is important to be skeptical, it is hypocritical to want government to solve all problems, and then be disappointed when things don't always work out.

Mikhail Gorbachev| 4.22.10 @ 12:32PM

Whenever there is a problem, the default answer for many people is; "the government should

The first Republican President, Abraham Lincoln, said the government should provide for the people what the people cannot provide for themselves.

Eric(OfConservativeMind)| 4.23.10 @ 11:47AM

Indeed. "What people cannot provide for themselves," and those people who choose not to do so as well? It is lamentable that the U.S. government is now seen as some sort of treasury grab-bag by progressives, liberals, Statists, etc.

Indeed, perhaps the government should responsibly provide roads, a postal service, a military, and other Constitutionally defined duties, but our U.S. government, by its founders and framers, was never intended to balloon into a massive Welfare State.

Social experimentation was left to the States by the Constitution and its 10th Amendment. The Fed. has no enumerated authority by the Constitution to create Welfare-type programs, Medicare, Social Security, government-run health care, etc.

It was FDR who started this country's slow-roll into Statism with his New Deal, which broke well and far away from previous governance; and the descendants of that batch of programs are close to bankrupting us as a country because of mis-management by both parties over the last several decades.

Bob From District 9| 4.23.10 @ 5:08PM

"Indeed. "What people cannot provide for themselves," and those people who choose not to do so as well? "

Damn few people *chose* not to provide for themselves if they have the opportunity to do so.

"It was FDR who started this country's slow-roll into Statism with his New Deal, which broke well and far away from previous governance; and the descendants of that batch of programs are close to bankrupting us as a country because of mis-management by both parties over the last several decades. "

FDR had a country that was falling apart. He pulled it back together. Under the programs and regulations he established we have not had a similar depression since. We have had recessions, but no where near the great depression, nor the multiple depression level panics of the 1800s.

The mismanagement that led to this crises is mainly on the republican administration of GW Bush, but totally on the conservative philosophy of deregulation.

Eric(OfConservativeMind)| 4.25.10 @ 5:02AM

FDR's New Deal policies created an environment that was hostile to economic growth and prolonged the recession under his watch. Under him, we have had the highest marginal tax rates ever in history, 94% at the highest tier. Economic growth doesn't happen well when businesses don't have the capital to expand and create jobs. He didn't improve unemployment by creating agencies like the TSA, because government agencies don't create wealth and opportunity, they spend it.

You're also forgetting the Stagflation of the 70's, but apparently Carter or someone in his administration managed to pull their heads out just in time to pursue policy that ended it just as Reagan was coming into office.

While the recession happened under Bush's watch, I don't see how you can pin most of it on him. Government policy played a large part in the housing bubble, but it started long before Bush.

It started with Carter, and the Community Reinvestment Act, which forced banks to give loans to minority customers based on accusations of "Redlining" who were being denied beforehand because they weren't financially stable. Because of CRA, new sub-prime loans were available that were 100% U.S. backed and bail-out worthy.

While you can pin some of this on de-regulation via the repeal of the Glass-Steagall Act under Clinton with a Republican-majority Congress, the return of derivatives only served to increase the leveraging that would happen with too-big-to-fail companies when Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac were directed by HUD to buy up all the "toxic assets" on the market, freeing up more capital so that loan institutions could purchase even more risky loans.

When Bush(2003), and later, McCain(2007), attempted to increase oversight over Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae, many Democrats like Dodd and Schumer stood in the way of regulatory reform, though it was later proven that both of those federally chartered banks were cooking the books to earn bonuses on their "profits" from soaking up much of the "toxic assets" on the mortgage market, much of it in the form of sub-prime loans. Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae became just two more too-big-to-fail corporations, backed by the full faith and credit of the U.S. government, the taxpayer.

Many progressives bemoan Wall Street and the bankers and investors who profited from the downturn, but it was government policy that allowed it to happen, under both Democrats and Republicans.

The resulting bail-outs only served to add to the debt, and perhaps keep a few companies from becoming completely insolvent. Perhaps they should have been allowed to fail, perhaps not, but today we have an ever-increasing debt, and you cannot blame it wholly on Bush any more. There are tax increases on the horizon, and many of them will be regressive, affecting most every citizen in the U.S. We cannot afford run-away government spending, and Obama's administration has done nothing to address it but pass HCR legislation that is touted as something to reduce the deficit, even while the federal budget has increased dramatically. The U.S. government continues to grow in size, and spending will not decrease while this is the case.

Dorrie| 4.23.10 @ 1:24PM

As per the Constitution, the govt. shall provide for the common defense and general welfare of the people. How could you misconstrue Lincoln's meaning? Any intelligent person will understand the difference between 'general welfare' and a welfare state where millions are milking taxpayers of their rightfully- earned profits. Yes, there are those who, through no fault of their own, are now in need of charity. However, 'charity' is very different from the right to arrogate what I have worked for. Further, we've had 2 or 3 generations of 'bloodsuckers' who've found all kinds of ways to live off the rest of us. What should be done is to send the foreigners home & give their jobs to those on welfare. (And yes, I worked on hands & knees in the fields; it taught me that if I didn't like it I had to pull myself out of it & work hard to achieve better, which I did).

Eric(OfConservativeMind)| 4.23.10 @ 11:51AM

You speak of classical liberalism. Many liberals/progressives today are Statists! They truly think the U.S. government should take care of them, because they want to be able to have no initiative, no drive, and nothing to do but collect a gub'mint paycheck, no matter where they live or what their circumstances are. They feel entitled to the wealth of others, though they do not work for it.

Ken (Old Texican)| 4.22.10 @ 9:53AM

Hi Howard,
You have been thrown into a tough ball-game here.

Mr. Soros and OFA have thrown every type of troll with every type of approach into our conversations here......to no effect really except laughter at them.

You probably haven't been around here long...at least under the moniker you are now using.

Yeah, you will be engaged by some of us, and your outright propaganda will be "outed" from time to time, but mainly we will laugh at you too.

There are a bunch of extremely well educated and well spoken contributors here, so I hope you learn something or seven. I also hope Mr. Soros is paying you very very well.

You are going to get terribly frustrated.

When I read stuff from persons of your persuasion,
I just keep thinking the same word over and over again: "Projection"...in the mental illness definition.

Gill O’Teen ✝✡| 4.22.10 @ 10:51AM

Ken, you may be correct that Howard is a Soros troll. I am more mentally obtuse since the stroke and often miss what is blatant to others. However, I don’t disagree with his comment. obummer would not live in public housing today without the support of most Americans back in 2008. I cannot imagine that many of these were totally oblivious to his socialistic core beliefs. When we consider the number of OUR fellow citizens benefitting from gum’mint largesse (OUR money), it is clear that too many of us have no problem with gum’mint handouts. This is a big part of the problem. Too many of us want “Money for nothin' and (our) chicks for free”.

Gill O’Teen ✝✡
gill.Oteen07041776@gmail.com
Now is the time for all to go Galt!
Only 8 days to fiscal Armageddon!

John Gelt| 4.22.10 @ 12:50PM

Ken, you may be correct that Howard is a Soros troll. I am more mentally obtuse since the stroke and often miss what is blatant to others.
No, you aren't missing anything but the paranoid delusions of someone who cannot fathom a person disagreeing with him. In his world, he has all the answers and these answers should be obvious to anyone but a paid troll.
Haha.
Like the arrogant talking heads (Rush comes to mind) who believe they are intellectually superior, and therefore anyone who disagrees with them is either a commie, marxist, socialist, or paid troll.

John Gelt| 4.22.10 @ 12:36PM

There are a bunch of extremely well educated and well spoken contributors here,
I think you must mean delusional, because anyone that has a different opinion from yours MUST BE a paid troll.
Who is George Soros, and why does he hate you?

Gill O’Teen ✝✡| 4.22.10 @ 2:33PM

John Gelt, Thanks for your brilliant assessment of this conversation. I have known who Old Texican is for about a year and his patriotism and dedication to truth and equal justice under the rule of law is beyond dispute. So, if an obvious kool-aid imbiber such as yourself sees fit to insult him, Limbaugh and other posters on this site without offering one shred of evidence to support your opinion other than vile venom, then, while I still can’t pass judgement on Howard, I certainly can about the likes of you. But there is hope. Simply listen to Limbaugh every Monday through Friday from 12 - 3 PM ET (I stream his audio over the internet) for a month and you’ll begin to see that there is a light at the end of the tunnel. That light is the brilliant beacon from the torch of liberty. Try it, you might like it.

And for your education, George Soros is a multi-billionaire who made a gigawad of cash by destroying the British pound. He uses this cash to fund leftist organizations around the world. If he hates Ken, more than likely he is not even aware of him, it would be because Soros is a strong advocate of restoring the old Soviet Union, and Ken, most assuredly is not.

Gill O’Teen ✝✡
gill.Oteen07041776@gmail.com
Now is the time for all to go Galt!
Only 8 days to fiscal Armageddon!

flyman| 4.22.10 @ 2:48PM

Thanks Gil,
It's good to learn there are other conservatives out there who can respect Rush and possibly Hannity/Beck. If anyone wants to disagree, okay, but have your thinking cap on because the stuff they offer is mainly ammunition with which to fight the ever-dominant governmental intrusion into our lives.

Bob From District 9| 4.23.10 @ 10:48AM

IOW, your only means of response is personal attack.

Oh, and you don't want to hear a dissenting opinion. Your mind is made up, don't bother you with facts.

Chalkdust| 4.22.10 @ 10:12AM

From an administration that uses the word "crises" like claymore mines, who in their right mind saw anything but danger from a "commission" with the likes of Richard Durbin, Eskin Bowles and Alan Simpson on it. These men come from a culture that would not think twice about selling the American people down the road.
It is almost time to give up thoughts that usually careen around in most American minds between elections; "How could Americans do that to other Americans?" or "Once THEY see how upset the American people are they'll come to their senses". It'll never happen it always boils down to the eternal question "Does politics corrupt good men or does bad men become politicians?" Dispite the downside, term limits seem to be the only answer.

flyman| 4.22.10 @ 2:52PM

Just a word about "crisis". If I can get the quote from R. Emmanual: never waste a good crisis. Or in others: never let the public know the real truth about what is going on and by any means let's pass more measures of control to justify expanding government. There is my piece of the pie for now.

Bob From District 9| 4.23.10 @ 10:50AM

The right has followed that path for decades. It's got another name, "Disaster Capitalism". Exploit any disaster for profit.

Billions of dollars, over 4,000 American lives, and uncounted Iraqis dead in a disaster in Iraq well exploited by the disaster capitalists.

Enjoy your success.

Eric(OfConservativeMind)| 4.23.10 @ 12:04PM

Indeed, and the Statists in our government are not doing this now? At least Bush's administration, as well as McCain(one of the few things he did that I agree with) tried to point out the problems in Fannie Mae and Freddy Mac before they reached crisis levels.

Now the Left is taking advantage of the financial crisis to direct the banks and autos which they have bailed out, and bludgeon those on Wall Street for being so stupid with their leveraged money.

Not that U.S. regulations(Community Reinvestment Act)and Federally chartered banks(Fannie Mae, Freddy Mac) or deregulation(Glass-Steagall repealed under Clinton with a largely Republican Congress) had anything to do with this crash, no no...

You oust yourself as the partisan you are, because you bash the right without hammering the Statists on the left. Shame on you. Conservatives today seek to oust the Statists from government and restore it to a much more responsible, limited government.

Do you stand with the Statists, Bob? Do you dance with those who want to tell every individual in America that they have to purchase a government-approved insurance policy or face a fine or imprisonment? I think you do, and until you prove me wrong, I will continue to do so.

Eric(OfConservativeMind)| 4.23.10 @ 12:06PM

It also stands to be said that many Democrats like Schumer and Pelosi have much tighter ties to the financial sector in our economy(Wall Street, etc.) than many Repubics do... How interesting.

Pete| 4.22.10 @ 10:17AM

I think that politicians have slipped away from the "public service" mindset and no longer measure themselves on the happiness/productivity of their constituents. Rather, they now point to how much federal money they have secured for their state, locality, etc...and get praised by liberals and the media for it. This begins the inevitable spiral of decline we are seeing now. While the underlying financial situation is unsustainable and in fact ruinous, these asses are allowed to pontificate about all of the "good" they are doing with the magic "government money" they have found.

Tim| 4.22.10 @ 11:06AM

This vast Culture of Corruption absolutely gives rise to the distrust and well it should.

Ever wonder why the most corrupt folks seem to be the ones bashing religion, church going people and generally people of deep personal faith?

The two are tied and have been so since day one.

During the day we could trust our neighbor with a simple handshake we also sat with them in a church pew on Sunday or Temple on Saturday evening and helped each other with family projects and Uncle Sam was our friend ready to help during a crises and not a vulture ready to take all that we own.

But what the evil forces have done since the 60's is try to destroy God and in doing so try to destroy the reason all of us should be trustworthy and noble to each other to begin with.

It's been a clever Con....but as all Cons go.....once the majority figure it out it just becomes part of the historical record...

Soon this 50 year Con Job will pass into history and america will rise again and be true to its constitution and to its destiny.

Not even Obama or his henchmen can prevent that.

Ken Roberts | 4.22.10 @ 2:00PM

I sure hope so . what you say is so true . Christianity has taken a beating for the last 15 years. what I tell most that ask me about my faith is we are a religion of peace and love and the first thing they say is you hate gays , I tell them they are wrong, we love our fellow man we just hate sin and we do not cut heads off of gays as the wonderful religion of Islam does . also when we are refused by any one we dust our feet at their door and move on , Islam just either kills you or demands money. The christian faith does not intimidate nor are we violent to any one refusing our Lord. It is out of our hands what the Lord does for or to them .

Bob From District 9| 4.23.10 @ 11:05AM

"Ever wonder why the most corrupt folks seem to be the ones bashing religion, church going people and generally people of deep personal faith? "

I noticed how you lied about that. The ones who most corrupted our system were the ones who prayed the loudest, and proclaimed themselves chosen by God. (literally)

Job 13:7
Hath God any need of your lie, that you should speak deceitfully for him?

Eric(OfConservativeMind)| 4.25.10 @ 5:08AM

Nah, the ones who have most corrupted our system are the Statists who have taken us far from our Constitutional roots.

Your example is a close second.

JJ| 4.22.10 @ 11:27AM

government sponsored enterprises -- exactly. and do we see any reform there? nope. barney frank still has an office at the government sponsored enterprises office in washington, dc.

Cincinnatius| 4.22.10 @ 11:31AM

I would not trust anyone in congress as far as I could throw a bull by the tail! The big reason is that they have their own interests first and foremost and ours somewhere down around the bottom. They are no more "servants" to the people than we are any longer free individuals, owing that condition to their self-serving actions. Congressman Flemming of LA has proposed a bill that will put congress under the healthcare bill provisions. It can be found here: http://fleming.house.gov/index.cfm?sectionid=55
Go and sign the petition and let's see if congress is with us or against us!

Jack| 4.22.10 @ 11:35AM

I was fortunate enough to attend an NFIB meeting with Sen. Evan Bayh last fall. It was obvious the man simply did not know (or care) who his constituency was. How can you trust a representative who doesn't know who he represents? Let's see, who do I support today our grand Cap and Tax plan from "my fellow democrats" or these little people in my home state who are always chewing on my ankles?

Herman King| 4.22.10 @ 11:37AM

Aren't all governments essentially criminal enterprises?

fred lapides| 4.22.10 @ 11:40AM

...and 70% of Americans believe in the reality of angels...

Granny3| 4.22.10 @ 3:46PM

And?

Eric(OfConservativeMind)| 4.23.10 @ 12:14PM

Just as many in the world around have their myths, legends, and religious dogma.

Is it more folly to believe in angels, demons, and God, or to believe in a Utopian society where everyone has their needs met by their government?

Paul Howard| 4.22.10 @ 11:50AM

It is unfortunate that I joined NFIB before I realized that it was just another right wing mouthpiece that doesn't know truth from fiction - or apparently does not care. The right wing folks spend the money they kept from the Obama tax decreases while complaining about increases because they don't care to pay attention themselves - preferring instead to keep parroting the claims of their masters.

granny3| 4.22.10 @ 3:47PM

Unjoin
Someone will open the exit for you.

Brad Nailer| 4.22.10 @ 11:51AM

I understand that 43-47% of Americans don't pay Federal taxes. It is no surprise why those folks don't mind the tax and spend mentality. When the VAT comes in however, and everybody is shelling out extra tax every day, I expect there will be a new virulent concern sweeping the land for our Congress' spending habits.

John Gelt| 4.22.10 @ 12:42PM

I understand that 43-47% of Americans don't pay Federal taxes:
Retirees
children
And wall street executives who have offshore accounts
And corporations, like Exxon, which pay negative taxes (get government subsidies)

BA Cyclone| 4.23.10 @ 4:04PM

The accurate quotation is that nearly 50% of *eligible taxpayers* owe zero or less (negative) income taxes.

Bob From District 9| 4.23.10 @ 11:12AM

"I understand that 43-47% of Americans don't pay Federal taxes."

You understand wrong. Aprox 50% of of Americans don't pay income tax. However, income tax is about 45% of federal revenue. When Bush took office it was very close to 50%.

Anyone who ever buys anything in this country pays taxes. Anything made in this country carries federal taxes, and a lot of imports also.

Probably the biggest reason more Americans are not paying federal income taxes is:

They are losing their jobs!

Before Bush screwed things up the Dept of Labor released a report showing how much of their income each income quintile paid out in taxes. At all levels it was within a rather narrow range. The real difference was in what taxes they paid.

The top 20% paid about 50% of taxes, and got about 50% of income. I see no problem with that.

Eric(OfConservativeMind)| 4.23.10 @ 12:23PM

What about the time when those people will be paying 60% or upwards to subsidize illegitimate government activity?

Uh oh, it's already happening some places. In some tax and spend Blue States, like Michigan, those on the highest tier of the tax bracket do pay upwards of 60% in taxes. Are those people truly free? Some of these States are depopulating themselves because of the additional taxes businesses and successful individuals have to pay to exist/live there. Detroit has already lost half its population, or so I was told elsewhere.

Is is defensible to argue that the U.S. government continue its spending unchecked, thus rendering the need for ever-higher taxes? The budget increases every damn year! Much of it to fund social programs which the Fed. shouldn't have its hands on in the first place!

BA Cyclone| 4.23.10 @ 4:17PM

"Probably the biggest reason more Americans are not paying federal income taxes is:

They are losing their jobs! "

It is a factor no doubt, but hardly the "biggest reason".

The biggest reason is that over the last 10 years, "tax cuts" have come a-plenty, many as targeted incentives for certain behaviors at the bottom rungs of the pay scales.

To the point that nearly a majority now have zero income tax liability, and as many as 40% of taxpayers "profit" from the income tax system.

To suggest that this is an upside-down system would be to underestimate the moral dilemma created by this reality.

The biggest weakness of such a system is that as long as most people have no "skin in the game" (income tax is the single largest revenue stream of the government) then most people have limited (if any) visibility to the cost of government action or policies that affect them.

No person anywhere deserves, by force of law, to receive something that someone else has earned. The government is not a charitable organization.

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/.....67323.html

Peter| 4.22.10 @ 11:51AM

I have several children who are now married and have children of their own. It is an eye opener for me to see how much money they receive from the government just because they have children and low starting incomes. My 30 year old son got over a 9000 dollar tax return where he only had about 500 taken out. The government literally gave my son 8500 dollars for free. In addition, they receive extra food because they are relatively low income and have kids. So I tell them, if the government is giving it away, you better take all you can because you will be paying for it for the rest of your life. I figure that the government is taking it from me and giving it to my kids.

I do not believe that this practice will ever be substantially reversed even if the republicans are in office. Who is going to tell the public that benefits are being removed.

Marcia J| 4.22.10 @ 1:26PM

I never could understand how someone could receive a refund on something s/he never paid in the first place! It's called redistribution of wealth, and it's the whole purpose of the tax code.

Purpleguy| 4.22.10 @ 9:47PM

Bingo!

Bill truitt| 4.22.10 @ 12:43PM

OK folks,

Most everybody is plenty pissed off.
Come November, let us see what the % of eligible voters go to the trouble to vote AND let us see how many congressmen and senators get reelected. That will tell in no uncertain terms how we really feel... or NOT. If there is a high % of these criminals reelected, you may look in the mirror to place the blame. I, for one would not mind seeing 100% turnover in congress.

Marcia J| 4.22.10 @ 1:21PM

Amen, Bill! Send all the career politicians who exempt themselves from the laws they pass for the rest of us HOME! Unfortunately, too many people buy into the notion that, to vote for anyone other than the Republicrat or Democan candidate is to hand the election to the "enemy", so a true shift of power is unlikely. Ever wonder why these people spend millions of dollars to gain an office that pays less than $200,000 a year?

Ken (Old Texican)| 4.22.10 @ 1:55PM

Hi Bill.

I'm not pithed off.
Heh,
There are some fine Republicans I'm sending cash to...to whom I am sending cash...bitch! (grin, a little grammar joke there.).

Term limits are already in place...across the board, they are called elections...duh!

Yep, it does pith me off...sorta...that millions stayed home last election. On the other hand, as I have stated so often here, we as a country really needed this bunch of communists, (pardon the shorthand), to make things perfectly clear.

Sadly, I cannot help but wonder if McCain was suffering from "Stockholm Syndrome" during his tour in the Senate...and the 2008 campaign.

Personally, I am betting it all on November 2. I'm all in.
God bless

John Gelt| 4.22.10 @ 12:46PM

Are you also concerned about corporate welfare?
The top 5% wealthy in this country, who have done quite well these past 10 years at the expense of the middle class (which includes just about all of us)

Ken (Old Texican)| 4.22.10 @ 2:01PM

AMSPEC................DO NOT DELETE MY POSTS UNLESS YOU WANT ME TO STOP CONTRIBUTING ON A MONTHLY BASIS!

John Gelt,

Welcome to our conversations here. I loved your turd in the punch-bowl. Thank you.
Please, pay some taxes...some day... and get back to us.
Heh.

Margie| 4.22.10 @ 2:49PM

Ken,

AmSpec removes your posts yet they allow some of the most vile, despicable anti-semitic posts here. They also allow posts to stand by the vilest of posters, *Tim, who called me a slut, amongst other things. There seems to be an allowance of vile creatures posts, but removal of the best, most truly conservative poster's posts.

I shall not post here again.
God bless.

Ken (Old Texican)| 4.22.10 @ 4:28PM

Awww shucks, Margie.

Thanks...but I THINK the amspec guys are trying to experiment with cutting off yah yah arguments.

We shall see.

New posts are never deleted...so far...just the "reply" function
We need your thoughts here.
Ken

flyman| 4.22.10 @ 2:59PM

Hey John,
This is still the land of opportunity [so far]. If you don't like the top 5% folks go out and earn your own fortune. Don't blame them for making your personal wealth less, look in the mirror. As long as the top 5% are still there we still have a chance of survival.

Eric(OfConservativeMind)| 4.23.10 @ 12:35PM

Indeed. Under Reagan's presidency, he cut taxes for the commercial interests in our society and added a non-inflation-indexed tax which affects many in the "middle class" today.

Unfortunately, on top of that, many people get large sums of money from the government come tax time(The "refunds" were lamentably a Republican idea). Everyone should pay into the system, regardless of whether they get something back or not. For the poorest people, I bet a 5-10% tax would suffice to get their attention.

The problem for all solutions, for the progressive Statist, is to ramp up taxes on the rich! Wheee!
To bad leveraging a 100% income tax on those making over $100,000 wouldn't close the gap this coming year.

Oh yeah, the Bush tax cuts are lapsing as of this year. If you have a "middle class" income, prepare for it to take another hit on top of the likely-to-be-instituted VAT tax in order to cover the government tax/spend social program machine.

Nicholas Wind| 4.22.10 @ 12:50PM

I live in Toronto or as I call it San Francisco lite.
I know where my American friends are coming from.
We too have a communist union regime in power here.
Our Mayor believe it not graduated from the same business school as Osama your president.
He's regime are leftests with no creativity and without any business sense.
So what we are seeing N.A. wide comes right out of page 410 of Atlas Shrugged by Ayn Rand.
She speaks there of when the producers are controlled by the looters (bureaucrats and politicians) the end is near.
There is more wisdom in that page than all our politicians wisdom combined.

Dorrie| 4.22.10 @ 8:13PM

I began to wonder if others had read Ayn Rand! Should have been required for all high school students (and their teachers who belonged to unions!!)

Oldefarte| 4.22.10 @ 12:56PM

Putting Boyles and Simpson in charge of a deficit reduction committee is like PUTTING CLINTON IN CHARGE OF A SAFE-HOUSE FOR SEXUALLY ABUSED WOMEN!!!!!!

Tim| 4.22.10 @ 1:34PM

"When the producers are controlled by the looters"

It reminds one of what all forms of organized crime did in the past and does now to poor uneducated folks under the disguise of "Protection"

for that matter--modern day union leaders do the same thing to their Rank and File Union Members and as we all know the current occupant in the White House subscribes to this Chicago style "Looting" philosophy.

Ken Roberts| 4.22.10 @ 1:49PM

wait just a durn minute here : you say in the beginning of the article that the people are to blame well yeah, I would put that blame on the people that stand behind the mikes at the main stream news outlets, and spill the lies and the cover ups that have been done for the last ten years or more. Now that other news outlets are available on the inter net people have wised up and and are now demanding things be righted. If they can be righted is another item all together . The house has sit up there and most are millionaires on the public's dime and no one is pointing fingers at any one for fear of the finger pointing to be in their direction. hired a guard to watch the hen house and then have to hire a guard to watch the guard ad nausea: the ones that have not gotten rich is the ones we could maybe trust , I am looking at each candidates bottom line and worth before I pull the handle for them at the polls . That will not be the only reason but it will be one of many. Before we blame the people of the United States lets look at how they were duped first .

jdalabama| 4.22.10 @ 1:52PM

Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me every damn time, I must be a liberal

JoeR| 4.22.10 @ 2:09PM

I love this great debate. Maybe we are relearning that our Republic isn't bullet proof, specially from within. November shall show whether or not. Use of the web, ACORN, SEIU, and not listening to conservative commentary on Obama's background got us here.....

Tim*| 4.22.10 @ 2:29PM

A VAT is Economic Treason . This is another Euro-Socialist Economic Scam

Remember In November !

The Tea Party Rebellion Escalates.

Marc Jeric| 4.22.10 @ 4:50PM

It's much worse that just the usual distrust og government. Abu Hussein al Nairobi, our Community Organizer-in-Chief, has much worse plans for us. He is a revolutionary marxist-leninist leading us into the promised land - permanent communist government. Nationalizations will proceed apace - automobile companies, banks, insurance companies, mortgage companies, hospitals, oil & gas companies, coal mines, electricity companies, airlines, ...

F KRAUTNER| 4.22.10 @ 6:55PM

It's hard to trust an outfit where lobbyists write the laws.

Eight years of Bush have worn out the "trust button."

I agree with the teabaggers on one point the ENTIRE crew in Washington should be voted out.

That doesn't mean a shift back to the GOP, but kick ALL of the bastards out. The problem is trusting the new group.

The term "special interest" needs to be deleted from the political vocabulary. The only interest should be the welfare of the country.

Greengirl| 4.22.10 @ 7:09PM

ooooooo I think you sound cute!

Teabaggers! (Giggle)

I have a special interest. Wanna hear it?

KICKING YOU RIGHT IN YOUR TWIG AND BERRIES! (giggle)

Ray| 4.22.10 @ 7:19PM

Too bad we can't get rid of the lobbyist as well as the incumbents -

Also don't forget about being sold a bill of goods on the Iraq war -

Nick| 4.22.10 @ 8:23PM

I would really enjoy slapping Alan Simpson's old, fat face!

What a pompous jackass.
Go away, you phony conservative/libertarian!

Yosemeti Sam| 4.23.10 @ 2:27AM

Sadly - Simpson is a has-been.

Re the photo:

He could have at least leaned over to ask BHO
about that Mao Zedong White House Christmas tree ornaments' whereabouts.

Bob From District 9| 4.23.10 @ 11:18AM

"Wouldn't it, for instance, have been a good thing if we had distrusted the entire Fanny Mae and Freddy Mac contraption which was the foundation of the housing bubble that, when it burst, led to the economic distress that has so many of us feeling distrustful and worse?"

It would have been better had you been honest and given the real cause of the economic collapse, the credit default swaps, the derivatives, which were unregulated. Why were they unregulated? Because the republican controlled congress refused to allow Brooksley Born, head of the Commodities Futures Trading commission to regulate them.

That is why the collapse was so wide spread, why it is worldwide. And why the right is guilty.

Would you even have had a housing bubble if they hadn't been able to bundle the securities and sell them into a market bubble?

Eric(OfConservativeMind)| 4.23.10 @ 12:53PM

Perhaps, but it still stands that under the Community Reinvestment Act many banks were forced to give loans to people that otherwise would have been denied loans because of their financial instability. Add to that the derivatives problem, as well as the mass of sub-prime mortgages marketed by ACORN, Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac, and others, and you have the bubble of which you speak.

Bob From District 9| 4.23.10 @ 11:20AM

"Wouldn't the nation be better off its citizens hadn't accepted with docility the assertion, made in 1967, that Medicare would cost a mere $12 billion in 1990? Turns out that the actual number was a little closer to $110 billion. "

No!

Whether you like it or not, medicare has been one of this country's great successes.

Eric(OfConservativeMind)| 4.23.10 @ 12:43PM

And now the Statists are breaking the knees of the program without responsibly retiring it over time(Reference the new HCR legislation). Those who were promised Medicare in their youth should live to enjoy it, but the program is broken. It's time to let go.

Many in our society have been duped by the promises of the Statist, but our politicians have used these vehicles to create a debt that will be paid for us now, or by subsequent generations.

Eric(OfConservativeMind)| 4.23.10 @ 12:59PM

Also, Medicare, compared to private companies, was already involved in much rationing of care to control costs before this last election. AARP and further tax raises are going to be the only things keeping Medicare afloat for the next decade.

I hope you enjoy your government-mandated, government-regulated insurance policy, Bob. May we not fall into another massive debt-hole that will have us looking like England in another decade or so.

BA Cyclone| 4.23.10 @ 4:28PM

"Whether you like it or not, medicare has been one of this country's great successes. "

Whether you like it or not, most people might choose to define "success" differently that you do.

Government spending per-capita has out-paced private spending per capita since the inception of Medicare. They started out at roughly the same, and have diverged ever since.

The Medicare/Medicaid system has been bastardized into one giant cost-shifting program, like every other federal program of similar design.

Success? Maybe if your only points to consider are size, scope, and appetite for resources.

The cold hard reality is that the government too often confuses cost control with price control. It is thanks to what shreds of a private medical care system we have in the U.S. that we still have anything resembling a successful system here - and partly why many other countries are allowed to socialize their own systems.

Sadly, the intrusion of public entities into the medical care system has warped it into a bad third-party payer system that has nearly zero method to control costs. As a result nearly nobody in the system does - and the government-created problems will now be "fixed" by more government bureaus created to do that.

BA Cyclone| 4.23.10 @ 4:32PM

http://www.pacificresearch.org.....ealth-care

Vic| 4.27.10 @ 6:20AM

Yea, it ranks right up there with Fanny, Freddie, and SS. Great ideas if you are an advocate of the Cloward Priven strategy of nation wide economic collapse.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cloward–Piven_strategy

How this socialist idiocy is to help the poor is anyone's guess.

MainStreet| 4.27.10 @ 12:06AM

What's there to trust? Obama ran as a moderate and is governing from the far left, as evidenced by his big government policies and staff and department appointees.

For the last 70 years, the federal government has grown in ways that would have been anathema to our founding fathers. What is happening now would have sent them to their graves.

We need a little sanity in Washington and a change in direction back to the Republic as defined in the Constitution and Bill of Rights.

Lyle| 5.19.10 @ 12:10AM

ALL YOU POLITICIANS ARE CORRUPT. REPUBLICANS AND DEMOCRATS AND THE PROBLEMS THEY DEAL WITH ARE ALL LIES TOLD BY THE ALSO EVEN MORE CORRUPT GOVERNMENT. SPREAD THE WORD. SOLCIAL REVOLUTION. GET RID OF THE MONEY GRUBBING PEOPLE OUT OF CONGRESS AND PUT PEOPLE WHO ACTUALLY CARE ABOUT THE ECONOMY AND NOT JUST THEIR WALLETS!!!!!!!!!

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