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Breaking News
Kultursmog in Big Sky Country
Helena’s Carroll College is big on football — but absolutely terrified by Constitutional law (and free speech).
(Page 2 of 2)
Chris Shipp tried his best, but Trebon wouldn’t allow Montana’s only Constitutional law professor and the campus Republicans the use of an empty and waiting room with seating for 120. A good thing, perhaps, for the speech was moved to an off campus location where over 200 showed up!
Natelson gave a great speech and answered diverse and sundry questions on constitutional law with an emphasis on original intent. He made two points (among many) that I appreciated. One, that when the Constitution was written and adopted, it was intended that ALL people be involved in understanding and interpreting it, not just the self-appointed experts. Two, that representatives at the time were far more honor-bound to represent the people—-as opposed to today’s representatives, who consider themselves our betters and dictators of what is best for us (e.g., Pelosi, Trebon).
For the next few weeks, Shipp’s publicly stated intent is to lie low and making certain he graduates. He’s learned firsthand that liberals won’t hesitate to tighten the raw fist of power, even in the most trivial of affairs. He was visibly shaken and upset at the events. Welcome to the real world of real power, Mr. Shipp.
And President Trebon and his hive will have an amusing anecdote to chortle over at the next conference of college administrators in Hawaii or Vegas or Aspen.
A FOOTNOTE: In 2004, after teaching at the University of Montana Law School for 17 years, Natelson requested to teach a course in Constitutional law, of which there was none. The hive at the law school refused him. Only as the result of outside influence and legal maneuvering did the powers relent and allow Constitutional law to be taught at the law school! Natelson retires this year and will take a a position at Independence Institute, a Colorado-based think tank that promotes free-market solutions to public policy issues.
Letter to the Editor View all comments (36) | Leave a comment
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Roger| 4.20.10 @ 7:54AM
You can't make this stuff up, in the end I do believe truth is stranger than fiction. Too bad for us that enough people have not yet awoken to put an end to this sort of absurdity.
Dan | 4.20.10 @ 8:56AM
Wow. And here I thought people moved to Montana to get away from that sort of thing.
Kitty| 4.20.10 @ 9:05AM
My thought exactly.
GreyLion| 4.20.10 @ 9:35AM
Naw, the lower 47 think that most of our last names here begin with "K" and end with "y".
Dan Hirsch| 4.20.10 @ 9:16AM
Happy! Thanks for the heads up on Prof Natelson's imminent retirement. I happen to be the parent of a student at Montana's only law school - I will encourage mine to take Natelson's class, if he hasn't already done so.
Thanks again for the nice work!
Anthony| 4.20.10 @ 9:44AM
Looks like Trebon has had his fill of Montana and has his sights on some elite eastern university. The best resume enhancement for a leftist college administrator is to proclaim fealty to speech supression and political correctness.
And what better way to demonstrate your leftist bona fides then to proclaim discussion of the Constitution provocative?
Well done Mr. Trebon, please forward your resume to Duke University, I believe you will receive a warm welcome. BTW, how's the lacrosse team at Carroll doing this year?
P.S. Isn't it also rich that the one Montana Law School has only ONE course in Constitutional Law? I bet there are 10 courses on gender and race.
Follks, we have a lot of cleaning up to do in America, lots of places where the rot needs to be removed.
Bill Croke| 4.20.10 @ 10:47AM
Happy, Great piece. That'll stir up the hive in Helena. Missoula and Bozeman too.
Petronius| 4.20.10 @ 11:09AM
Oh we just can't have Mr. Shipp using his "rights" against Mr. Trebon now, can we? After all, the career of a 10th string wannabe is more important than his charges doing real thinking about things he does not want them to know.
Through grade school and high school students are force fed excrement. At college they are supposed to acquire the taste.
Ken (Old Texican)| 4.20.10 @ 11:27AM
Thanks, Happy.
I've cleaned the coffee out of my keyboard now from snorting laughter.
Roger above said it all. You could not have made this up. Hopefully can enjoy a career in non-fiction writing.
Joe D| 4.20.10 @ 11:54AM
Mr. Trebon needs to go. If he, like Pelosi and Obama, do not believe in free speech that our founders beleived in he has no business being the head of a college.
Tony in Central PA| 4.20.10 @ 1:21PM
This is yet another example of a school wanting the benefits of Catholic identification but acting on orders fron " the hive " as the author put it. Its long past time for the Church to attempt to exert institutional control via some sort of seal of approval process through the local bishops that can weed out the schools like Georgetown, Holy Cross and of course, Notre Dame from Catholic identification. These schools can still exist and can still take orders from the modern liberal Cathari as they currently do, but their Catholic orogins will be certified as presently meaningless.
Bill H| 4.20.10 @ 1:39PM
You people who think that this doen't happen is small town haven't been paying attention. it matters not at all where the enducation institution is for the left to target it it for liberal domination. The left has taken the Long March through ALL of the institutions. And while they were doing so classical liberals were day dreaming.
Anthony| 4.20.10 @ 4:03PM
Correct Bill; I recommend the book "Shadow University" for a truly frightening look at how colleges and universities handled their "speech codes", and the star chambers that administered "justice" to the accused.
The Middle Ages had nothing on the modern Leftist American university.
Happy Feder| 4.20.10 @ 2:34PM
AUTHOR CORRECTION
I was told by one of the Natelson speaking event organizers that the University of Montana Law School did not have a course in Constitutional Law in 2004, and I reported this. Apparently it did have such a course, but did not allow Mr. Natelson to teach it until outside influence prevailed. My apologies to U of M Law School and readers for the incorrect information.
james| 4.20.10 @ 4:04PM
Montana: home of Hollywood perverts, Ted Turner, Max Baucus and Jon Tester. This is not your father's Montana. I'm surprised that you're surprised, especially since you're a native.
GreyLion| 4.20.10 @ 9:26PM
james,
Yup, got a few of them critters, but mostly folks who don't take kindly to cities and poachers.
The Clintidote| 4.20.10 @ 5:41PM
That hive needs an exterminator.
CJohnson| 4.21.10 @ 2:28AM
Shall I assume there are no questions about our Constitution on a BAR exam taken in MT? How lovely. Glad left.
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Chris| 4.21.10 @ 3:09PM
I am a Carroll employee who attended the event at the invitation of a friend. I found it to be well-organized, orderly, and informative. I also used to work in public relations so I am well aware of how the media will focus on sensation for ratings or circulation. Thus, fringe elements of the Tea Party movement make the news creating a perception about the whole movement. I know from my relationships with several participants in the Teat Party movement that this is a false impression. Your piece rightly decries this sort of distortion. However, you then participate in the same distortion by suggesting that the decision of a few defines an institution.
In fact, what distinguishes Carroll from many institutions of higher learning is a strong collegiality that allows for divergent views to be expressed and debated on a regular basis. It happens informally and it happens in the classroom regularly. It is what attracted me to Carroll from the stifling political group-think of California, the state in which I lived my entire life until moving to Montana.
The further fallacy in your argument that this one decision defines the institution is that you fail to mention that over five years ago President Trebon uninvited a representative of Planned Parenthood from sitting on a panel because of its pro-choice position. By your logic, Carroll would then be a conservative institution. The truth is that Carroll is neither. I know that this is an inconvenience to the far left and the far right which subscribes much of what happens in the world to their pre-defined points-of-view.
Finally, since I used to work in student affairs and was, on occasion, the target of student claims of unfair treatment I thought it would be useful to ask our Director of Student Activities what happened. He is a good and honest person who truly loves the students. Here are the facts of the event. The process for student clubs to host speakers on campus requires that the organizing club communicate in person with the director of student activities the information about the event. The director of student activities never received a request by phone, by e-mail, or in person by any member of Carroll Republican club to host this event. He only found out when another administrator brought to his attention that the club had scheduled a space that conflicted with an already planned event. Thus, the decision not to host Mr. Natelson was because the organizing club did not follow the process in place for all student clubs.
As to the claim that the Carroll Republican club "receives NO FUNDING from the school or student government." There is a pool of money for all student clubs to request $300.00 per semester for programming. For the last two years there is no record of the Republican club requesting any funds from the student government. For the 2007-2008 academic year the Republican club requested, and received, $300.00 for the semester for which it requested it. (For the record I asked the director of student activities to read this post to verify its accuracy before I sent it).
The internet is a convenient medium to communicate fiction as truth. Then, because other people write comments supporting the fiction, it seems even truer. I would hope that a movement and its adherents that have been on the receiving end of so much misinformation would demonstrate the care to make sure that its own claims are accurate. Disappointingly, they are not in this instance.
Chris| 4.21.10 @ 3:11PM
My apologies for a misspelling. The fifth sentence in the first paragraph should read: "I know from my relationships with several participants in the Tea Party movement that this is a false impression."
Happy Feder| 4.21.10 @ 6:56PM
Mr. Fuller offers a very narrow and selective account of the little events that lead to the denial of an empty room to Chris Shipp. A long story (and he might bother to ask Mr. Shipp for his side (and printed emails!) that better and more honestly depict the event). Short version---it was administrative bungling that mislead Mr. Shipp, who operated in good faith, and trusted the administrator who originally told him he could use a room on that date and at that time. And later, the day before the event was to take place, it was a vote of a committee, not an ironclad statute, that specifically denied to Mr. Shipp the use of a room that was standing open and empty.
A responsible President would have said, "Sorry about the confusion on our part, Mr. SHipp, how about you take this empty room. No one else is using it, it's just sitting there gathering dust."
But no. They told Mr. Shipp, Rob Natelson (Montana's only teacher of Constitutional law and nationally recognized expert), and the well intentioned, well behaved Helena Tea Party, and the many others who wanted and planned to attend the event---"Go take a hike."
I might add I separated my rebukes of Trebon and the committe of 'administrators' from the "Institution." In clear sentences. But to the extent that the President and top administrators shape public perception and the policy of Carroll College by choosing to allow an empty room to remain empty rather than filling it with open, inquisitive minds, then yes, to that extent I criticized Carroll College. And I and others will continue to do so.
Dave M. (now in S. Korea)| 4.22.10 @ 7:44AM
This so-called Roman Catholic college ascribes "the worth of work and the use of the intellect, humanistic values centering on the uniqueness and dignity of the person" as "secular values." Are the uniqueness and dignity of the person a Roman Catholic value (by the way, they are not secular values)? Does the Roman Catholic Church value work (hint, the Bible sure does)? What atheist wrote the mission statement for this so-called Catholic University?
On another note, the University of Montana Law School did not teach constitutional law until 2004? How the heck was it ABA accredited?
Chris| 4.23.10 @ 10:44AM
Happy Feder:
Thank you for your reply. Your original post and your reply suggest that you rely on a single source for your information. If this is the case, then welcome to the narrow and selective account club. However, we both agree that "the students at Carroll College are hardy souls. They can hear an idea without fainting."
I notice that you do not address President Trebon's prior decision about Planned Parenthood. Nor do you address the funding for the Carroll Republican club. For the record, neither the Carroll Democratic club nor the dance club received funding this year because, like the Carroll Republicans, they did not request it. By your logic, the "hive" also has it out for Democrats and dancers.
Could another space have been found? Perhaps. This is a legitimate cause for debate depending on the full circumstances that transpired to plan the event. However, it hardly bespeaks a cabal of administrators who "fear dangerous emanations from Natelson's penumbra" given Carroll's history of hosting speakers from a wide variety of points-of-view, liberal and conservative.
As for Dave M.' question, "What atheist wrote the mission statement for this so-called Catholic University?" The author of the mission statement was a single person who is from Butte, MT. He has been a Catholic priest for nearly fifty years. In the same mission statement he also writes, "As a Catholic college, Carroll is obligated to treat judgments concerning ultimate reality and decisions concerning ultimate value at both an academic and a pastoral level. This obligation involves the College's relationship to the Magisterium of the Catholic Church, defined as 'the perennial, authentic, and infallible teaching office committed to the Apostles by Christ and now possessed and exercised by their legitimate successors, the college of bishops in union with the pope.' Carroll College is committed to present faithfully within its curriculum the magisterial teachings of the Catholic Church." Carroll is one of the few Catholic institutions in America that clearly articulates its relationship to the Magisterium.
Sometimes things are as simple as administrative bungling (your contention) or not following the clearly articulated policies that apply to all clubs (my contention). It is not always a conspiracy against conservatives or conservative thought.
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