The American Spectator : My Country Right or Left

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My Country Right or Left

By Tom Bethell from the April 2010 issue

One problem with liberals is that they have no appreciation of the normal.

Years ago, I asked Michael Kinsley, then the editor of Harper’s, if liberals ever think the state has grown large enough. This was in the early 1980s, so a vast government expansion — Great Society, EPA, Department of Energy, and others — had already happened. Kinsley and I had been at the Washington Monthly together. I should add that he was then and remains to this day a liberal to the core, and an excellent editor despite that.

“Maybe government should be cut back a bit, just this once,” I suggested. When he looked uncertain I asked him how he would know if still more was needed.

In his answer, he used the metaphor of adding salt (more government) to tasteless food (the American way of life). Salt is added, and see? The food tastes better already. Now comes more salt. How does that taste? He sips from an imaginary pot. Better, but we’re still not there yet. More salt definitely needed. Out comes the Morton’s one more time. His message was that government is never quite big enough.

One problem with liberals is that they have no appreciation of the normal. They lack the taste buds that tell normal people when enough is enough. You never, ever hear liberals debating whether we have too much government. “More!” is their sole prescription. Right now, billions more dollars have been put at the disposal of the Department of Education. It will be spent foolishly, on progressive education. But for liberals it is an article of faith that more government money improves not just education but everything it is spent on.

Too much salt is dangerous, of course, and it can kill. But liberals never think of more government that way. Their plans for the improvement of mankind — always involving greater control over our lives — take precedence over practical considerations. In the Soviet Union the government swallowed up everything, and that proved fatal to it. No matter. Liberals are ruled by their driving obsession: Life is unfair, inequality must be corrected, the government must step in and do something right away. Basically, the liberal mind is possessed by a revolutionary spirit.

They think of government as teleocratic, to use Michael Oakeshott’s word. It aims to bring about particular ends. It turns laws into missions. To conservatives (exemplified by the Founding Fathers) government is nomocratic, or rule-based. It no more seeks a particular outcome than the rules of baseball decree that either side shall win. Since the liberal goal — eliminating inequality — is an unattainable fantasy, life will always be unsatisfactory for liberals.

Don’t they know that governments amassed power in country after country throughout the 20th century, that the United States mostly escaped that, and was also the most successful country in that time — and for precisely that reason? They are not interested. With good liberals in charge, good things will happen. And if they don’t, well, that will be the fault of bad people — greedy people, most likely. New laws can be fashioned to stamp out greed. And so it goes.

When Obama said he’d rather be a good one-term president than a mediocre two-termer, he tacitly acknowledged that his bigger-government plan might not be appreciated by the voters even though it would be good for them. A premise of liberalism is that Americans, like children, often don’t know what’s good for them.

Over the years, some on the left saw the utopian and destructive nature of liberalism, and broke with it. The most influential of them became known as neoconservatives. They still supported parts of the liberal agenda — big government with a mission — but they abandoned the mission itself — equality. Theirs would be quite different.

They called themselves “big government conservatives” and George W. Bush became their prime pupil. He “tolerated a surge in federal spending, downplayed swollen deficits, failed to use his veto, created a vast Department of Homeland Security, and fashioned an alliance of sorts with Teddy Kennedy on education and Medicare,” as Fred Barnes wrote in 2003.

But the key neoconservative goal was “regime change.” Folks, there are bad people out there, so let’s get them before they get us. The 9/11 attacks gave Bush and his team a war-making rationale. We invaded a supposedly nuclear-armed Iraq in 2003 and duly changed its regime. Afghanistan had already been attacked in 2001.

Traditional conservatives have no such agenda. They aspire to constitutional government and equality before the law. The people should be responsible for their own health, education, and welfare, as they were in the 19th century. Taxes should be low and trade free. Prepare to defend the country but don’t go around looking for trouble. Tyrannical regimes have long been the norm and they tend to self-destruct. Lead by example, and others will follow. Lead by force, and others will back away.

Now we are stuck in Iraq and Afghanistan. An election looms in Iraq, and the Afghanistan conflict could continue indefinitely. Clearly it was our involvement in these unwinnable wars that undermined the GOP in 2006-08. Now they are becoming a liability for Obama. In 2009 he signaled that he would like to extricate the U.S. from Afghanistan but he also feared looking like a peacenik president, so he ordered a troop expansion.

We have seen the difficulties that the left creates — they generate permanent high blood pressure, to extend Kinsley’s salt metaphor. Now let’s look at the very different problem that arises on the right. Patriotism is a virtue, but it comes so readily to conservative hearts and minds that it can be enlisted inappropriately.

Because they find contentment in private life, conservatives are often temperamentally unsuited to leadership and susceptible to guidance by neoconservatives. Ronald Reagan was the rare case of a successful conservative leader who steered clear of wars. After the Beirut barracks bombing of 1983 he extricated the U.S. from the region in preference to war.

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About the Author

Tom Bethell is a senior editor of The American Spectator and author of The Politically Incorrect Guide to Science, The Noblest Triumph: Property and Prosperity Through the Ages, and most recently Questioning Einstein: Is Relativity Necessary? (2009).

Letter to the Editor View all comments (82) | Leave a comment Leave a comment

Ret. Marine| 4.12.10 @ 6:39AM

" Hypertension is our fate" It need not be. The sad fact of the matter in which we find ourselves in two ongoing wars is not to be contributed to the Neo-Conservatives, liberal, or Conservative mindset. This war was coming and anyone who understood the problem the world was facing since the early 70's understood it was not a matter of if but, when it all began anew.
It just so happened the war was coming, some preferred not to notice, others, saw the warnings on the walls and tried to get others to pay attention to it and did not succeed. To lay blame for the situation, no matter if it were a Conservative, a neoconservative or even a liber mindset is not the problem here, it is the lack of "true leadership" that we find this mess to be rather salty and distasteful.
Now we find ourselves being lead around by the nose by a new non-talented so-called leader, he's a urber leftist by the name of obumbler and Co. Still leading these wars largely on the doorsteps of Bush, policies are said to be different but, upon closer examination are just the continueation of Bush policies.
As for the liberals and their meddleing into our personal business, they are the problem not the solution. For a group who have for the past 70+ years have steered this nation away from the founding principles and ideology of the Christian faith, they sure as hell cannot get enough followers to their faith, (one world order) to make "just" decissions, consisting of only 20% of the population, their followers have instead used satans obligations of lies, deciet, fraud, theft and a host of other undesirable traits to get where they are today. The do not get it, there are still around 65-80% of us out here who do not want or need their involvement into our lives, let alone all the unnecessary mindset to infest this country with their ideology. I take a more simpler approach to all matters with my fellow countrymen/ladies, leave me alone to my own devises and I'll leave you alone to yours. It's where you want and demand to get involved with my personal affairs is when the trouble will be headed your way. Though the liberal mindset always tells us they are concerned, they are just a poor excusse of a god wannabe and not a good one at that. Good day.

Alan Brooks| 4.12.10 @ 11:47PM

"They called themselves "big government conservatives" and George W. Bush became their prime pupil. "

His father, too-- or have you forgotten Mr, Bethell?
Too close for comfort.

Troll Watch| 4.12.10 @ 8:33AM

Damned it you do, damned if you don't.

Arlo Price| 4.12.10 @ 8:34AM

The obamagedon PIMP thugocracy chugs along....

If you would only READ and COMPREHEND the recipe you would know how much salt to add.

There is a successful recipe for winning a war, it's called KICK BUTT WITH OVERWHELMING FORCE. World sentiment be damned!!! They started it and we should have finished it by now.

No we can't all get along. World peace is an impossibility. The concept defies the laws of physics. War is a fact of life, always has been and always will be. Get over it.

The continuation of these 'conflicts' is nothing more than an effort by the elitist of big government and big business to continue the development of means and methods by which complete subjugation of the unwashed masses can be accomplished.

Pingback| 4.12.10 @ 2:29PM

American Progressives and their Constitutional Problem | DBKP - Death By 1000 Papercu links to this page. Here’s an excerpt:

…also holds back the Progressive dream of equality. What’s the prescription for a document written by dead, white males, some of whom were slave-owners? A Big Government philosophy that states Big is Never Big Enough is only restrained by how much money Progressive politicians can extract–and the Constitution. Tom Bethell once put the questions to Michael Kinsley: How much is too much government? How do…

J.J. T| 4.12.10 @ 8:13PM

Below is an intelligent statement Michael Kinsley made on GAY LIBERATION. He calls it an "inspiring triumph."

"The progress of gay liberation, though not complete, is one of the inspiring triumphs of the past four decades. Every time we think the American project of freedom is finished, along comes someone else to point out that it's not, and every time we realize after a while that this someone else is right. But the route of gay progress was not inevitable or preordained. Marriage did not have to become the central issue. This was a strategy, and a good one. It's going to work, because the arguments for it are so reasonable and appealing to so many people across the political spectrum."

Washington Post May 21 2009

Ken (Old Texican)| 4.12.10 @ 8:52AM

Tom Bethel,

That was THE most stupidly condescending article I have read at American Spectator.

I didn't like your "tip-toe through the violets" skewing of the truth either, you lying SOB!

Quote you:
""But the key neoconservative goal was "regime change." Folks, there are bad people out there, so let's get them before they get us. The 9/11 attacks gave Bush and his team a war-making rationale. We invaded a supposedly nuclear-armed Iraq in 2003 and duly changed its regime. Afghanistan had already been attacked in 2001.""

You could not say that entire paragraph to me in person...without a verbal ass whipping, wherein I would HOPE you would take a swing at me.....

.....alas, but you wouldn't, you wimpy heel biter.

I would only get to watch you slink away.

""...supposedly nuclear armed Iraq""...my ass! NOBODY used those words or meanings .

Dumbbunny, if you have not realized........even yet that we are at war with militant Islam, then why don't you resign and mosey on over to Daily Kos or Moveon. org Mr. Soros surely pays better.

Mr. Terrell, I apologize for my vehemence here, but this ...................guy...........is a disgrace to your fine organization.

Roy| 4.12.10 @ 11:46AM

I'm not quite that POed about it but..it always flabbergasts me how obsessed some people are with "neoconservatives".

You might be able to dig up some quote somewhere from Irving Kristol calling himself a "big government conservative", but the amount of time he spent bashing inefficient, counterproductive welfare programs puts him on the side of the angels in that respect. And if anybody can turn up a statement where George W Bush calls himself a "big government conservative", I'd be pretty impressed.

But even that's putting it too mildly since only people anyone not way too obsessed with personal grudges simply could not give less of a sliver of a smidgen of a hoot about "paleo" vs. "neo" conservatives. There is one big sprawling coalition generally in favor of less government, strong defense and traditional values. There are shades of disagreement on all these points. Tom Bethell wants to label people who disagree with him on foreign policy "big government conservatives", but this is naked horse crap. The difference is that they disagree with him on foreign policy - and that's really the only generalization that can productively be made.

A.M. Mallett| 4.12.10 @ 2:00PM

Ken,
Why not make your point without the absurd ad hominem nonsense?

Ken (Old Texican)| 4.12.10 @ 5:47PM

AM MALLETT

...'cause it ain't ad hominem, and it darned sure isn't nonsense.
You are welcome.

davelnaf| 4.12.10 @ 9:50AM

Good article that neatly encapsulates the liberal mindset. True conservatives need not fear the present, though. Unless dems have figured out a way to rig election outcomes on a massive scale Obama and his leftist daydreams will come to nothing soon enough. It will be costly in the short term, to be sure, but it will all be righted—no pun intended—and the dems will be a minority party for a very long time.

Steve Cross| 4.12.10 @ 11:32AM

Spending many hours a day reading political commentary, and being a libertarian, I think TAS strikes the right balance for critical thinking conservatives. TAS, Cato, and Reason have it right: the "neocons" have hijacked conservatism.

Jim Woodward| 4.12.10 @ 12:05PM

Mr. Bethel,
A few thoughts.
1) Had Bush 41 not listened to Powell there might not have been a reason for 43 to go in to Iraq.
2)There have been numerous reports that Saddams WMD went to Syria. I believe the Israelis did a number on some of it not to long ago.
3) What about the yellow cake that was shipped out after the invasion as Rove points out in his book?
4) What about the chemical tipped munitions found in Iraq?
Just thinking.

David| 4.12.10 @ 12:25PM

Whoa!!! I am stunned that some the comments about homosexuals are well over the top. We can oppose their constant clamoring for entry to every area of our lives (public education, Boy Scouts, Christian organizations, openness in the military, etc.), and their demands that society accept, respect, and legitimize what they do by allowing them to marry, but I think using the term homosexual or lesbian is explicit enough. We don't want to create sympathy for homos (only to shorten it) with people who currently oppose their destructive agenda.

Hate the sin, love the sinner, and do everything we can to prevent the radical homo agenda from progressing any farther than it has.

Tim*| 4.12.10 @ 12:52PM

The neoconservatives, promoted , supported and financed The Serial Traitor to Conservatism , John McCain.

JP | 4.12.10 @ 1:32PM

I don't think the so-called neoconservatives will have much influence with the Tea Party Movement. However, it would be nice to see a sober, realistic foreign policy statement be issued from someone within the Tea Party group itself. Reagan, while no a foreign policy guru crafted a pretty serious foreing policy agenda years before he became a national political force. If you build it, they will follow.

Tom Bethell| 4.12.10 @ 1:32PM

Arnold K. Ross' slander of Michael Kinsley brings discredit upon the whole notion of allowing unedited comments online. I know of no evidence that Kinsley is homosexual and I am sure that Ross doesn't either. He has seized the opportunity that this format provides to throw mud at someone he dislikes.

Michael Kinsley is married and for some years has suffered from Parkinson's Disease. I find that he is also one of the few liberal commentators who is consistently interesting even when one disagrees with him.

After Ross posted his slander, others responded, assuming that he knew what he was talking about. He doesn't.

This kind of debasement pollutes the entire pool and works against the interest of those who look for sensible commentary online. Those who use this forum merely to hurl lies and insults, with no fear that they will be called to account, in the end will turn off everyone. On some websites that allow unedited insults to pass for comment, things have already reached the point where the only sensible course of action is to ignore the whole sideshow and turn elsewhere for enlightenment. You'd be better off reading the New York Times.

I hope the American Spectator site doesn't slide down the same rat hole. I agree with the comment by Roy. Some password authentication would eliminate the worst of the mud throwers.

But I must dissent on one point. Roy is wrong when he says that neoconservatives are NOT big government conservatives. He should delve back into the past and read comments by Fred Barnes, Bill Kristol and David Brooks. Recently, Charles Krauthammer has been laying the groundwork for the idea that the only plausible way to get rid of the budget deficit is to have a value added tax (sales tax) nation-wide. Alas, Roy, like some of the others here, thinks that the best way to get his point across is to use abusive language.

Eric Cartman| 4.12.10 @ 2:41PM

Well, ya learn something new every day! I always thought Kinsley was gay - not that is matters except in adding a certain twist to his liberal outlook, which I still think is gloriously stupid (as is all of liberalism). I feel I owe Kinsley an apology, so I offer mine to Mr. Kinsley. (Then again, if I apologize, I'm inferring there is something wrong with being gay. If I don't apologize, I am, in some fashion, smearing Kinsley. Damn it! Can't we leave people's sexual proclivities out of everyday life! Stupid gay pride movement!)

As for unedited comments, TSA does a pretty good job of policing the board. But I really have no use for cheap shoes and Chinese vitamins.

Ken (Old Texican)| 4.12.10 @ 2:43PM

Tom Bethel,
Well, evidently, Arnold's comment has been removed.

How can we get YOUR abusive language off this site? Forever?
I stand by my comment above. You, sir have used the term "neo-con" in the same breath with Dubyah Bush, and accused him of a war of aggression and..........murder.

Is "murderer" abusive language?

I still say you are a wimpy little "heel-biter" without the courage of your convictions. I notice you have not engaged my comments. It is well that you have not. Your thoughts above simply cannot bear the light of day I can bring to bear upon them.

Just try me.

I have a day job worthy of me, and I truly do not have the time or interest in peeling your logic like the swiss cheese it is.....but I shall not let your nasty innuendos stand.

PS: I am not a "neo-con" ie: looking for an excuse to start wars in your definition, jerk.

sheila muroski| 4.12.10 @ 3:02PM

Michael Kinsley may not be gay, but he is an avid supporter of gay rights and a critic of Republican stances on gay issues.

The following is quoted from The Quiet Gay Revolution by Michael Kinsley.

The debate of 14 years ago about gays in the military seems almost quaint. Kids grow up today with gay friends, gay parents, gay parents of friends and gay friends of parents. If only blacks and whites were as thoroughly mixed together in society as gays and straights are. Kids are also exposed constantly to an entertainment culture in which gays are not merely accepted but in some ways dominant. You rarely see a reality show without a gay cast member, while Rosie O'Donnell is a coveted free agent and Ellen DeGeneres is America's sweetheart. The notion that gays must be segregated out of the military for the sake of our national security must strike Americans younger than, say, 40 as simply weird, just as we of the previous generation find the rules of racial segregation weird. (O.K., run that by me again: they needed separate drinking fountains because ... why?)

Ted Perkins| 4.12.10 @ 3:14PM

Sheila, here's another quote from Kinsley from The Washington Post, May22, 2009.

You readers of American Spectator would never agree with Kinsley's take on "gay liberation," but I, a fiscal conservative, agree with him wholeheartedly.

The progress of gay liberation, though not complete, is one of the inspiring triumphs of the past four decades. Every time we think the American project of freedom is finished, along comes someone else to point out that it's not, and every time we realize after a while that this someone else is right. But the route of gay progress was not inevitable or preordained. Marriage did not have to become the central issue. This was a strategy, and a good one. It's going to work, because the arguments for it are so reasonable and appealing to so many people across the political spectrum

Maurice R.| 4.12.10 @ 3:18PM

Michael Kinsley: A quiet voice of reason!

Am Spec Readers, please search the WEB, and read Kinsley's articles on gay issues.

Just "open up your minds and let the sun shine in."

Nick (from Detroit)| 4.12.10 @ 6:19PM

Michael Kinsley may be straight as Bethell claims, but he's prissy, faggot acting to me. Just listen to him talk.

Nick| 4.12.10 @ 6:29PM

Nice try, homo lovin' troll. Is that you Jon Boy?

Nobody believes you. Be gone!

Margie| 4.12.10 @ 2:20PM

Whenever someone uses the term Neo-con you can usually bank on the fact that they themselves are non-interventionists aka isolationists, are for Ron Paul, do not like our being allies with Israel, pity the poor terrorists, despise Republicans, and anyone who doesn't agree with these things is~ a Neo-con!
Mr. Bethell probably agrees with the resident Paleo-con artist S.L. Toddard.
The Paleo-con believes that unless you are a non-interventionist you must be for "Big Government" and are "Un Patriotic." In fact, you must hate America, as I have been told.
Thus is despicable! Conservatives are for limited government, lower taxes, free business enterprise, a strong Military defense, and are pro Life. The STRONG Military defense is where we part company with the Paleo-con non-interventionists. To pejoratively label us as Neo-cons is FALSE because when you use that term you are saying we are not true conservatives because we don't think like you do.
Ron Paul who became a Republican and has this same view, had to register Republican in order to get elected. His ilk will never win the Presidency as long as conservatives like me expose them for what they are. Liars!

Ken (Old Texican)| 4.12.10 @ 2:47PM

Margie,
Well spoken. See my reply to the guy just above.

Margie| 4.12.10 @ 3:48PM

I cannot tell you how much I appreciate your stand for the truth, Ken.

The Paleo-cons (their own definition of themselves), and the others who refer to us as Neo-cons because refuse to agree with their Isolationist views, end up seeming to agree with Obama's views.

HE despises our allying with Israel, like they do. HE cries out in favor of Islamists being treated as criminals with the same rights as U.S. citizens and therefore entitled to a day in civilian court here, like they do. HE makes light of terrorism in general, like they do, by mocking us for taking it seriously~and going to war against it by taking the battle to where they are. HE thinks America an AGGRESSOR~ like they accuse America of being. I'm sure those who accuse us of being the AGGRESSOR also happen to believe as HE does too~that it is a good thing that we are going to get rid of our nukes?!

The similarities are alarming! This is why I call them LEFTISTS. A term they cannot stand! But it is the awful truth.

And Wendy~ I don't just MEAN well. I AM well. Thank you.

There is no "movement" of "neo-conservatives." It is a pejorative term used by~as I explained above~ the Isolationists to try and discredit conservatives.
End of story.

Margie| 4.12.10 @ 4:01PM

P.S. As for the Frums, et al of the world~ well you're either a conservative or you're NOT a conservative. If you side with the Leftists in their views..just jump ship and register as a Democrat!
And if you're an Isolationist, there's plenty of room, because that's their ship.

Louis Jenkins| 4.12.10 @ 4:11PM

Dear Margie:

Great words. Keep the info coming.

Wendy| 4.12.10 @ 3:00PM

Margie, I know you mean well, but neoconservatism is a real intellectual movement, and it is anti-limited government and it is pro-interventionist, not just pro-strong military. For the record, I reject Ron Paul and regard him as anti-American as well.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neoconservatism

Ken (Old Texican)| 4.12.10 @ 3:43PM

Wendy,
I know you mean well...but you are a total doofus if you go to wikipedia for ANY political/ideological basis for thought.

wikipedia is for 3rd graders in that sphere.
Margie nailed it...get over it.

Steve Cross| 4.12.10 @ 3:03PM

Why does "a strong Military defense" translate into putting troops in over 150 countries, paying for the defense of a prosperous Europe 65 years after the end of WW II, keeping troops in Korea 57 years after the end of that conflict, meddling in the Middle East (which involved supporting & then opposing the same regimes), and fighting undeclared wars of no strategic interest to the USA (I'm a Vietnam vet and can attest to the worthlessness of that adventure). Besides, we're broke as a nation and cannot afford the empire any longer.

The "Tea Parties" originated with Ron Paul's supporters, and now the same people who excused "W"'s spending and wars want to co-opt them.

The national rage will not end well for the Republicans and Democrats. Here in Texas a 3-term senior Senator was soundly defeated for Governor because of general disgust with Washington D.C. It may get worse before it gets better.

Ken (Old Texican)| 4.12.10 @ 3:50PM

Hi Steve Cross

Is EVERYTHING YOU OWN... mined or manufactured in the USA?
...If not, duh, you just answered your own questionS.
The good Ole' USA allows the global trade that lets you live decently.
Duh.....who would YOU like to see... be in charge of keeping the sea-lanes open, and trade flowing?

Steve Cross| 4.12.10 @ 6:01PM

Good point...our Navy serves that purpose well.....but occupying medieval countries doesn't accomplish much......."Pax Americana" has replaced the "Pax Brittania" of the 19th Century......accomplished pretty much by a superior Navy....

Nick| 4.12.10 @ 2:44PM

Ha-ha!

Your attempt to hijack my name has been expunged, commie troll!

Although, I wish my retort to Paula had been left in. Oh well.

Joe| 4.12.10 @ 3:13PM

Tom Bethell, you are wrong on many fronts of self protection. Iraq is winable and was being won before Obama got in and messed it up. Even after the liberal/left and people like you slow the war up by complaining about everything therefore making Bush's admin be overly fearful over any mistake. They remove military way to soon to appease people complaining. And Aftagan is won depending how you look at it.

Vietnam was won until the politician got involved and ruined that war as well.

Finally, Reagan would have gone to war if there was a point to Lebanon. However, at the time it did not appear to be one.

Ken (Old Texican)| 4.12.10 @ 3:52PM

Joe,
Good thoughts............EDIT BETTER!

Please don't let folks think you are ignorant.

Steve Cross| 4.12.10 @ 4:19PM

I attended Freedom Fest last July in Las Vegas, which was primarily an economics-investment confab, and saw the general unity of "conservatives" towards free-market economics and a desire for limited government. Steve Forbes, John Fund (TAS, WSJ), Steve Moore (WSJ), Ed Feulner (Heritage), Ron Paul, Tom Woods (Mises) Mark Skousen, Peter Schiff , Larry Kudlow (CNBC), David Boaz (Cato), Matt Welch (Reason) and many other free-market, limited-government notables were there. All are friends of freedom and liberty.

Foreign policy was not up for discussion in the spirit of addressing the issues that concerned the recent financial meltdown. But there are certainly deep divisions on the right over the course of American foreign policy between those that believe in a pro-active and large military presence worldwide and those who feel that America has functioned best under the limited activities and non-interventionist government as spelled out in the Constitutution.

I was initially a "W" supporter and voted for him twice, but with the advantage of hindsight and revelations that have surfaced lately, it's obvious that he got some very bad advice from a coterie of advisors with an agenda that is suspect. That group has come to be known as the "neocons", first focused on by the 2004 book, "Rise of the Vulcans". This inner group consisted of Condi Rice, Don Rumsfeld, Dick Cheney, Richard Armitage, Paul Wolfowitz, and Colin Powell.
Their heritage was a continuation of a foreign policy built around being "crusaders for freedom" which of course translated into nation-building, something George W. Bush said he did NOT support when he ran for President in 2000.

After 9/11, Bush was in a tough spot and probably erred on the side of overreaction. I felt he was a decent man, ill-served by events and bad advice. A ruthless and dishonest press, and the awful liberal alternative, kept many conservatives on his side, despite his missteps.

So I think now we have to be realistic about how to go forward. America faces huge financial debt at home and an overextended presence worldwide. Americans have finally realized we have been taxed to death to support a bloated leviathan and Washington still wants more.

Ron Paul, who has been consistent for 40 years on these problems, is now consulted regularly because he has credibility. He is a diligent worker and deserves some credit, although he is certainly "charismatically challenged". After all monetary policy is not exactly an exciting topic.

So rather than the name-calling and bile on these message boards, Tom Bethel is right, we need to learn how to debate and discuss the issues.

Margie| 4.12.10 @ 4:59PM

Not a matter of Ron Paul being "charismatically challenged."
The man's view of America is skewed.
He actually said "The terrorists are terrorists because of us!"
THAT is no friend of America.

Steve Cross| 4.12.10 @ 5:20PM

"Which came first, the chicken or the egg"....bin Laden SAID he hit us because of our presence in Saudi Arabia, and yet we were there to drive out the Iraqis, whom we first supported against Iran, etc.

We ARE creating more terrorists. How would you feel if another country's army occupied the USA and we had no other way to fight a superior force? Great Britain considered our colonial revolutionaries as terrorists because of their guerilla tactics rather attempting major confrontations with athe "Redcoats".

Tim*| 4.12.10 @ 4:24PM

Yeah sure Margie !

O.k., maybe , BenAmi Kadish pleaded guilty of spying for Israel and was handled by Jonathan Pollard's Israeli Handler out of the New York Consulate.
Maybe ,Israel illegally sold United States Weapons Technology to The Red Chinese , jeopardizing Our Allies Taiwan and Japan.
Maybe Israel withheld Intelligence and allowed Our Marines to bet blown to hell in their barracks in Beirut ,Lebanon.
Maybe,Israel deliberately attacked Our U.S.S. Liberty ,killing and wounding Our Seamen.

But that's No reason Not to be an Israel Firster !

You Neoconservatives need to do a loyalty check, Sweetie Pie !

Margie| 4.12.10 @ 5:02PM

If you're the good, funny Tim, I am sorry that you have to resort to lies.
Dahling!

Tim*| 4.12.10 @ 5:35PM

Margie,United States National Interests Trump The National Interests of The Foreign Nation,Israel.

Either , dispute the facts about Kadish , Pollard, Illegal Weapons Tech Sales ,The Marine Barracks,The U.S.S. Liberty or Apologize and Stand Down.
Ya don't win points by slandering me , as resorting to lies.

Neoconservatives are not gonna be allowed to rewrite history and hijack the Republican Party with an Israel Firster Agenda.

Margie| 4.12.10 @ 6:39PM

Tim*
I'm going to take Ken's advise but just want to be clear. When I said resort to lies, I was referring to how you "categorized" me.
THOSE words were lies.
YOU don't get to slander me.
As for the rest of what you had to say about Israel~you are allowed to keep your hatred, no one's stopping you.

Ken (Old Texican)| 4.12.10 @ 5:54PM

Margie,
Unfunny Tim is not worth your effort. He holds his talking points from Mr. soros close to his.....well...
his........
...well, you and I know. heh.

Ken (Old Texican)| 4.12.10 @ 5:59PM

Margie,
I had to flip channels to get this youtube. Pardon the song at the front, it is a commercial.

This youtube is the theme-song for unfunny tim.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v.....re=related

Margie| 4.12.10 @ 6:32PM

Soon these types of comedians will be arrested for "hate speech."

Tim*| 4.12.10 @ 6:04PM

You're The Liar !
Soros Is An Anti-American Deconstructionist.
Me, I'm A Tea Party Rebel ,with The Valley Forge Patriots and we'll be protesting Obama And The Democrats ' Socialist Economic Agenda on Tax Day ,on Bridge Street .

Don't try to slander me,Pops !

Ken (Old Texican)| 4.12.10 @ 6:20PM

OH, unfunny Tim. Hi!

You just hate Bush, and all of us except Toddard right?
If you talk to Sarah Palin...very nicely...she can get you hooked up in eskimo land, and you will never have to see a Jewish person again.
(Of course you will never have to stand up for pax-Americana, and you probably won't even have to learn to bow and speak arabic.)
Have a nice ice.

Tim*| 4.12.10 @ 6:52PM

You don't know me , Old Slandering Scum !

I voted twice for 41 and 43 , Whack Job !
I fell off the sled when Bush and McCain opposed The Republican Rebels and forced TARP on Us.

You're A Buffoon ,Four Years Older Than Dirt .

Ken (Old Texican)| 4.12.10 @ 7:44PM

OK unfunny Tim,
I will quit teasing and be serious now.

...There were so many times I wanted to bop Dubyah on the head to get his attention...I can't count them.
Still...I get chills thinking about algore or kerry sitting in that chair.

Hell, I get chills thinking about the man currently sitting in that chair.
Bush did nothing that cannot be repaired...or improved...now that Americans are awake.

The problem as I see it is that while we are busting our butts fighting the good fight to retain our republic here at home...the billion muslims are moving on our flanks, and by either stupidity or by design...our government is allowing it to happen.

We have a two pronged war going on in my estimation. One external...one internal.

They both frighten heck out of me...or at least they used to. I have now put fright in my rear-view mirror. I'm putting "all in" these days...all my chips.
I shall probably wind up dead or in jail, and I have accepted that...finally...but I shall not shut up.

to answer your snarky foolish question...of course I consider Israel sorta' like our 51st State. Our vote at the UN created their nation. They are a democratic republic.
They are sort of our "unsinkable aircraft carrier" in the middle east...sorta' like England in WWII off of occupied Europe.

If you have not figured out yet that we are in a war to the death with jihadists, I don't know how I could convince you. Even the idiot in the whitehouse is following Dubyahs' blueprint in that regard.
You are too young, evidently, to have been drafted.
Youngster, you have gotten a free ride up until.....................when?

Isn't about time you got your stuff stacked and got serious too.

James| 4.12.10 @ 7:10PM

Most of the Tea Party's positions are more conservative than mine, but my wife and I attend the rallies, to fight an ideological war which has simmered for generations.

We must hang together and win the next two elections or our path will lead to darkness.

Jeff Perren | 4.12.10 @ 8:39PM

I strongly disagree with Mr. Bethell's views on foreign policy, but he is being treated here with a disrespect he does not deserve based on this article, and - sadly - by some individuals I often agree with.

Save the vitriol for the real enemy, Progressives.

I hope Mr. Bethell publishes here often. I'll read anything he writes so long as he continues in this vein.

Margie| 4.13.10 @ 2:17PM

"The REAL enemy?" I see. So individuals who refer to you as the enemy themselves and refuse our good company are not to be taken as enemies themselves?
You obviously have your blinders on!
Do you not get it that these Ron Paul non-interventionists do not consider the rest of us their friends? View *Tim's own words. We aren't conservatives, we are Neo-Cons, and "Israel Firsters." I say that they are out of their minds!
If you don't fight fire with fire, you lose. I refuse to allow them to define me as an enemy of America because I will not denounce Israel and all other conservatives other than their ilk.
They are quite militant in their attitude. You choose to see the vitriol as coming from those of us who dare to tell the truth, rather than from where it is actually coming from.
Your choice.

Ken (Old Texican)| 4.12.10 @ 9:44PM

Jeff,
I shall read his articles as well. He keeps us in touch with what the whiney squishies are thinking.

...Perhaps that is why Mr. Terrell hired him.. .hmmmmm.

Honestly though, in my best judgement, Bethell's "views" are nothing more than a "concern troll's".
Sooner than later, we are going to have to carry his types on our backs in the wars we are fighting.

Don Carlson| 4.13.10 @ 7:03AM

I'm sorry that Mr. Kinsley is ill. Though he is clearly a determined leftist, he is one who discusses the issues openly and enters the verbal fray valiantly. And, of course, his view of the world and the country is very wrong.
It is natural and just to be unutterably angry with the anti-American crowd who dominate the Democratic Party. It is true that even the least of them is culpable for much that is worst in our country because they are possessed by the notion that to intend good and to be awfully reasonable all the time (as they always claim and believe) in changing our culture and laws puts them forever 'in the right.' Thus every one of them is a danger to America's political, cultural, and economic health.
As for 'neo-cons,' that term is a bag of magic tricks that can mean all sorts of things—from people who would have the United States attempt to militarily dominate international relations to those who simply awoke one day to find they were no longer flower children.
In my opinion, Mr. Bethell's views are more divisive than constructive and will cause some to forget that the imminent danger to America is the current President and the Democratic majorities in the Congress. It may be that many conservative Americans' resentment of those decisions by George W. Bush that were less than sterling helped to bring about the present monstrosity. I, for one, agree with President Bush that we are at war both here and overseas with a terrorist enemy we must defeat. Bush, always the ‘nice guy,’ failed to see that the enemy within is more dangerous yet.

Yosemeti Sam| 4.13.10 @ 7:27AM

" ... His message was that government is never quite big enough...."

The more - the merrier then?

And - who are the government?

The incognito army of tenured bureaucrats.

Strangers - to you and to me!

Demographically/statistically representing a share of societies' half-wits, spousal abusers, tax evaders, pedophiles, thieves - you name it!

An acceptable comfort zone for the Mr. K.

Tim*| 4.13.10 @ 8:07AM

Kenny ( Oldster from Tejas ),The Israel Firster

That's your first mistake , Sport !
The foreign nation of Israel ain't our 51st State ,no more than Palestine would be ,nor Mexico is .
And don't lecture me about The United States Military ,Bub.

The IDF deliberately attacked our U.S. Naval Ship ,The U.S.S. Liberty ,killing and wounding our seamen , illegally sold U.S. weapons Technology to The Red Chinese , jeopardizing our allies Taiwan and Japan ,withheld intelligence about the Mercedes Benz bomb truck ,they were tracking ,which blew our Marines to hell. and Spied on The U.S. with U.S. Army Mechanical Engineer , Ben Ami Kadish And U.S. Naval Intelligence Analyst Jonathan Pollard ,Who had the same Israeli Handler ,out of The Israel Consulate in New York .

Do your homework and wake up !

Ken (Old Texican)| 4.13.10 @ 10:43AM

Tim*
You are forgiven.
You certainly cannot know who I am, or who I "do my homework with". I have kept it that way here, to allow my words and thoughts here to sorta' stand on their own merit.

You have again and again thrown out unproven, unfounded, allegations, and presented them as demonstrable facts.
Further, you have by word and deed here, villified Israel over and over again. My goodness, you ought to get on Hamas' payroll, or sign up as a commentator on Al Jazira...or MSNBC.

You always harp on the attack on the "Liberty". May I simply recall for you a useful phrase? "friendly fire casualties", or "blue on blue"?

May I also remind you that Israel was literally in the midst of a war for their very survival at the time?
Their military leadership was a tad busy at the moment, and some pilots may simply have made a mistake, either in judgement, or identification.

As a pilot, I can tell you that identifying a ship on a high speed pass at five hundred knots is a mite difficult. Also, electronic emissions can and are quite often "spoofs" created by enemy combatants; Sort of an electronic "camouflage".

Now, if you really want to do some homework, go read the conclusions of the inquiry into why the "Liberty's" Captain was there in the first place.
OOPS!
This incident was examined minutely at the time by everyone with an interest. No firm conclusions were ever made. Another Jew hater myth was born however...uh by the UN, and we Knooooooow they never skew the realities don't we?

Margie| 4.13.10 @ 2:22PM

Ken,
I think you will enjoy this. "The Blood of Patriots and Tyrants: The Tea Party's Founders."

http://www.pjtv.com/v/3353

Contrary to what *Tim says~ it is us!

chi | 4.13.10 @ 8:15AM

Until the New Year's dramatic financial reversal of fortune, Crist supporters, an increasingly endangered species, could and did say, "Look, the primary isn't until August 24 and Crist has a lot more money to tell his story and to define Rubio as something Florida Republicans don't want."

wagnsir| 4.19.10 @ 5:11AM

Free download Blu-ray to iPad Mac, you can easily convert Blu ray and DVDs to iPad for playing.

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Long Ben| 10.7.10 @ 5:22AM

Dang , this stew has too much salt in it. And please , let's agree to stipulate ; that if it has tomatoes in it , let's not be calling it stew .

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