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The Man With the Plan

By from the April 2010 issue

Paul Ryan’s “Roadmap” to save America from its looming fiscal collapse.

In late January, President Obama dazzled political reporters when he addressed a gathering of House Republicans in Baltimore. The press marveled at Obama’s intelligence, command of the facts, and ability to swat down GOP arguments effortlessly during the 90-minute exchange. But at one point, Obama took a question from Wisconsin Rep. Paul Ryan, the Republicans’ resident policy whiz, and clearly met his match.

In his State of the Union address just two days earlier, Obama had vowed to “freeze” non-security-related discretionary spending as part of a new White House campaign to create the appearance that the administration was doing something to address ballooning deficits. Unlike mandatory spending on entitlement programs, such as Medicare and Social Security, that grow without any explicit action by Congress, new discretionary spending must be passed by Congress and signed into law by the president.

“I serve as a ranking member of the budget committee, so I’m going to talk a little budget if you don’t mind,” Ryan said to Obama. “The spending bills that you’ve signed into law, the domestic discretionary spending has been increased by 84 percent. You now want to freeze spending at this elevated level beginning next year. This means that total spending in your budget would grow at 3/100ths of 1 percent less than otherwise. I would simply submit that we could do more and start now.”

In his response, Obama said he wanted to “just push back a little bit on the underlying premise about us increasing spending by 84 percent.” He insisted, “The fact of the matter is, is that most of the increases in this year’s budget, this past year’s budget, were not as a consequence of policies that we initiated but instead were built in as a consequence of the automatic stabilizers that kick in because of this enormous recession.” (The term “automatic stabilizers” refers to government payments such as welfare and unemployment benefits that tend to increase during an economic downturn.)

But Ryan shot back by noting a basic flaw in Obama’s analysis. “I would simply say that automatic stabilizer spending is mandatory spending,” he explained. “The discretionary spending, the bills that Congress signs that you sign into law, that has increased 84 percent.”

In a tacit acknowledgement that he had been bested, Obama replied, “We’ll have a longer debate on the budget numbers, all right?” and then proceeded to the next question.

A BIT LATER IN THE SESSION, however, Obama moved back to Ryan on a different topic. After a year of arguing that Republicans had presented no ideas on how to address the nation’s fiscal crisis, Obama mentioned that Ryan had produced a “serious proposal” to do just that — before offering his critique.

The proposal in question was Ryan’s “Roadmap for America’s Future,” a sweeping plan to stave off the nation’s looming economic and fiscal collapse by changing the tax code, overhauling the health care system, and reforming the nation’s major entitlement programs. Its debt-reducing claims aren’t based on mere fantasy — the Congressional Budget Office has determined that the plan would boost economic growth while making Medicare and Social Security solvent. And it accomplishes these aims without raising taxes or affecting the benefits of current retirees.

If the Baltimore event accomplished anything beyond giving the media a new reason to swoon over Obama, it drew attention to the “Roadmap,” which had largely been confined to the conservative policy ghetto since an earlier version was introduced in 2008. In the days and weeks following the summit, Ryan won praise from pundits on the right and left for at least having the courage to present serious solutions to the nation’s fiscal crisis. But at the same time, it became clear why most other politicians were unwilling to do the same.

“The entire Democratic political machine, right through the DNC, launched into a very organized attack mode,” Ryan recalled in a phone interview with TAS.

The praise Obama offered for the plan soon looked like a trap intended to elevate the plan just so Democrats would have something to knock down. It became a way for their party to go on offense after being clobbered for a year on the economic stimulus package, as well as the cap and trade and health care bills.

Peter Orszag, director of the Office of Management and Budget, tore into the Ryan plan. Democrats distributed “fact sheets” and held a media conference call to rip into the proposal further. “[I]t’s a roadmap right into the economic ditch that we got ourselves to begin with,” Rep. Chris Van Hollen, who serves as chairman of the Democratic Congressional Campaign Committee, told the influential liberal website Talking Points Memo. “Put it this way. For seniors on Medicare, it’s a dead end.”

In the wake of the uproar, Republican leaders tried to distance themselves from the proposal, emphasizing that while it contained good ideas, Ryan’s plan wasn’t the official Republican budget. In an election year during which the GOP is poised to make big gains, Republicans don’t want to give Democrats an easy opportunity to paint them as the party keen on destroying Social Security and Medicare. But if Republicans are to regain any credibility as a party that wants actually to limit government (as opposed to just talk about it when in the minority), then they can’t shy away from this debate. The looming fiscal crisis is too severe, it’s approaching too soon, and it’s far too big of a threat to the American way of life.

LAST OCTOBER, a new government took power in Greece and revealed that the nation’s annual budget deficit would be more than twice what had previously been forecast. In the ensuing months, the country’s creditors fled, its debt was downgraded, and its cost of borrowing surged — just when the country desperately needed money. In response, the government scrambled to roll out proposals to get its deficits under control by slashing social spending, dramatically hiking taxes, and freezing public sector wages— triggering nationwide strikes. Before long, Greece was pleading with other reluctant European Union member states for a bailout.

One of the major obstacles to addressing the looming entitlement crisis in the United States is that it’s very difficult to communicate the urgency and magnitude of the problem. Screeds about the long-term Medicare deficit of $38 trillion, or America’s combined unfunded liabilities of $107 trillion in current dollars, often fall on deaf ears because the numbers involved are inconceivable. And even when people accept the vague idea that we’re on an unsustainable fiscal path, hearing projections about where we’ll be decades from now makes them think that we have plenty of time to figure things out, somehow, at some point, down the road. While there are always caveats involved in drawing economic parallels among countries, the Greek collapse demonstrates what a fiscal crisis means in human terms. It also serves as a warning that the day of reckoning could come a lot sooner than we imagine.

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About the Author

Philip Klein is The American Spectator’s Washington correspondent. You can follow him on Twitter at: http://twitter.com/Philipaklein

Letter to the Editor View all comments (188) |

Pingback| 4.9.10 @ 6:42AM

The Man With the Plan : USACTION NEWS links to this page. Here’s an excerpt:

…destruction Immigration military Propaganda Unions What to DO! The Man With the Plan Paul Ryan’s “Roadmap” to save America from its looming fiscal collapse. By Philip Klein at American Spectator In late January, President Obama dazzled political reporters when he addressed a gathering of House Republicans in Baltimore. The press marveled at Obama’s intelligence, command of the facts,…

Ret. Marine| 4.9.10 @ 7:09AM

One of the most thought provoking articles I've read in a very long time, Thank you Mr. Klien. I don't know where I have been all this time but, I was not aware of this plan, or even that it came from Paul Ryan. I guess I am much like most Americans today, hung up in the mess that is obama.
Is it any wonder why the demonrat party is so forthright mean these days. Although I am and was aware of the debt ratio I did not realize there were honest individua's at the Congressional Budget Office. After the meeting with the whitehouse some months back, I like many folks looked to this as a surrender to obama's will. I may have just changed my mind after this article.
Either way we look at this coming crises, we are in deep do-do. I, like most here at this site, are very concerned about our children and grandchildren' financial future. I am glad to see someone, at least has a plan with some merit.
As the days grow longer with the usual bullshale coming from the demonrat party, the viterol, the hate and downright uglyness and all it is any wonder how many of us out here are just hanging onto reality. One thing I know for sure, I am going to look into this further and try my best to get this article to everyone I know, libtards and all. Thanks once again. Keep'm coming.

Purpleguy| 4.9.10 @ 5:46PM

First of all, stop calling names; it's really childish of you and it's rude. Second, as stated, Ryan's plan mirrors Obama's, so if you hate Obama's plan, you should hate this one too. But, you are cherry-picking what you like, and denigrating what you don't.
Your children and grandchildren will be just fine. If we had only had a balanced budget for the last 8 years, we would have almost paid off 1/2 the debt, and if we have a balanced budget soon, we can do the same... it's not the end of world like the scare merchants want you to believe. The Treasury's debt is typically 15 year based, so over 15 years, with a balanced budget, you pay down the debt each year.... kind of similar to a credit card

victor| 4.9.10 @ 7:24PM

Retired Marine:
"the viterol, the hate and downright uglyness"

PS Thanks for your service sir.

Purple Kool-Aid:
"First of all, stop calling names; it's really childish of you and it's rude."

First of all, they are nouns and appropriate descriptions of democrat's behavior.

Purple Kool-Aid:
"Second, as stated, Ryan's plan mirrors Obama's"

"For the Record"©, a mirror image is an opposite image.
Obama's plan is for the downturn, degradation and control of the US economy while Ryan's plan is for the upturn, improvement and unleashing of the economy.

And the family budget is unlike the Federal budget in that we cannot print more money whenever we run out.

One last thing, deficits happen when the democrats are in charge of the pursestrings.
Things got markedly worse after the putsch of Nov 2006.
Deal with it.
Pelosi and her minions have controlled the federal purse since then.

Alan Brooks| 4.9.10 @ 8:49PM

"One last thing, deficits happen when the democrats are in charge of the pursestrings."

But Bush 41 ruined it by saying "read my lips, no new taxes." Why should anyone have trusted the GOP after that? I'm mostly worried Jeb Bush will run for POTUS in '12; the Bushes are as power-mad as the Kennedy family. It may seem extremely unlikely that Jeb will run, but it appeared extremely unlikely during most of the '90s (until '99) that another Bush would be elected POTUS in 2000.

The Bushes are like a bad coin-- they keep coming back. And some of you have guilty consciences from having voted for the power-obsessed Bushes.

David Homer| 4.10.10 @ 1:31AM

Alan, I live in Texas and I knew better than to vote for either Bush. I usually don't agree with you but I agree with this comment. It seems to me that Ryan has come up with a roadmap to keep the US solvent so we can continue with big government socialism. I would rather stay the course with what we have until it all goes down the drain and then maybe we can start over with something that works. It looks like trouble ahead no matter who we elect.

GreyLion| 4.10.10 @ 11:36AM

Son, your makin' progress and i just want you to know that I am proud of you....at the moment...now Al ..dont do nothin' to screw it up with all that Dem o gagery.
Project Manager

Margie| 4.10.10 @ 8:42PM

So let me get this straight. It's better to vote for Obama than a Bush? Hmmm.

"Veerrry interesting. But NOT interesting enough!"

Alan Brooks| 4.10.10 @ 11:41PM

Marge,
The GOP, radical conservatives, rightwing paranoids, and libertarians do not interest me.
CONSERVATISM does.

Alan Brooks| 4.10.10 @ 11:54PM

... what is it don't you get, Marge? Haven't you heard of Reagan Democrats? you must live a very insulated life.

Margie| 4.11.10 @ 1:24AM

Dahling,
Pray tell. If it's conservatism that interests you... then why oh why is it Obama that you said you will be voting for?

As for Reagan conservatives, yes sir, I know them well, as you're looking at one.. me!

Are you saying that you're a Reagan Democrat? Hmm. Just a tad bit confusing.

Oldefarte| 8.11.12 @ 12:33PM

Your HARD ON over the Bushes should be deflated. What did one of them terminate your employment for cause etc? Get off of your crapola. The Bushes have served this country well in both the military and government service, and they are in no way comparable to the filthy dung-pile of the Kennedys [one of which recently slammed into a moving truck while in a drug induced daze, which is typical of these domestic terrorists]. If you wish to pin a tale on a donkey, do it onto that imbicile @1600, okay??????

Alan Obama Fan Brooks | 8.11.12 @ 1:41PM

Here it is over two years later, now Ryan IS the pick, however you have tacitly admitted Romney is a Rockefeller liberal-- so the corollary is conservatism is now morphing into centrist-liberalism.

Osamas Pajamas| 4.10.10 @ 2:26AM

Geez, Purpleguy, it must be difficult to waddle with your head jammed up your butt. The Healthcare Hijacking Scheme should be thrown into a dumpster with a couple of live grenades and blown into smokin' confetti. It is the worst act of vandalism committed against the American people since a bunch of jihadi loonytoons flew hijacked planes into the WTC towers.

Von Mises Jr| 8.11.12 @ 8:07AM

The Trolls are shitting hteir pants. They are fearful. And they should be. Here is Ryan taking apart Obama: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zPxMZ1WdINs

Purpleguy is Perp during the day and also comments as Jefferson. Margie has also responded as Tim. Alan Brooks has at least two other names he uses during the day like Brooksifier and some other stupid new name.

The trolls register multiple names so it appears that they are many more than they actually are. I suspect there are about 3 or 4 and they each use at least 4 names.
And they are in a panic.

Purp| 8.11.12 @ 8:14PM

You are hysterical. Paul "Dopey the Dwarf" Ryan doesn't scare anyone except maybe Grandma in the Wheelchair going over the cliff.
And, THAT is making the entire center and left energized.
This pick puts the Ryan Budget plan front and center, dismantling of Medicare and Medicaid, privatizing of Social Security and HUGE tax breaks for the rich at the expense of college tuition grants and head start programs. Yep, this is going to be a party all the way to the election!
Register multiple names? Nope. Can't be bothered. Maybe before registration, yeah. Not now.
Just take a peek at Huffingtonpost if you want to know where all the people are. Here are just the small number of ideologues that believe in Ayn Rand, etc. Not much impact, but fun to play with, like the cat with the mouse he's caught. Have a nice day.

Von Mises Jr| 8.12.12 @ 6:02AM

So you're argument is that you used to be a hateful, despicable and deceitful propagandist with multiple names, but now you are just hateful and despicable propagandist with one name?

martin j smith| 4.9.10 @ 7:40AM

In order for asny plan to work it must get thru the political fossilization-conflict -war situation that we are now in. It is my belief that the only hope is for the Tea Party Movement to grow so large that the only corner not included would be Obama and his followers. I hear that is happenening day by day. The Democrat Party is the party currently in power and therefore they have the responsibility,credit and blame for everything since they control all three branches of government. The Democrat ( and the Republican establishment ) must understand that they are there at the behest of the voter ( the citizen ) not the other way around as in Europe.
So yes, I am all for plans--but the power of the PEOPLE must prevail to force the Democrat Party to change. If they do, Republicans can too. Then we can talk plans.

J. Aberburg| 4.9.10 @ 11:54PM

Ok, so I get that you're a confused moron (tea partier), but this is just oo much. "not the other way around as in Europe." - what on earth is that supposed to mean? Don't we have democracy in Europe? Here's a news flash for you: Democracy was invented in Europe. The US was invented in Europe. Ever heard about the Enlightenment? Of course not, you're a republican, you aren't enlightened....

Osamas Pajamas| 4.10.10 @ 2:29AM

The Democrats have this "enemies list" --- denominated in epithets aimed at the people whose wallets they wish to hijack and take up residence inside. You can be a ‘Racist!’ and you can be a ‘Homophobe!’ and you can be a
‘Teabagger!’ --- a homosexual man taking his partner's testicles into his mouth. You can be ‘Selfish!’ and you can be a ‘Hick!’ and you can be a ‘Rube!’ You can be a ‘Right-wing-nut!’ and you can be "Unenlightened!" and you can be a ‘Fascist!’ --- altho' no one more closely approaches the precise description of ‘Fascist!’ than the usual Demo propagandist --- either official, or self-appointed.

So all you have to do to occupy multiple epithets on the Demos' enemies list is to insist that they take their hands off yourself, off your wallet, off your property, off your kids, off your car, off your weapons of self-defense, off your liberty, and off your freedom of speech. Insist on all these good things --- and that qualifies you to be spat upon by Democrats who regard this nastiness as just another entitlement of The Friends of All Mankind --- by a gang of lying, thieving, sticky-fingered, bloodsxcking, predatory humanitarian thugs. No political party in the history of America more profoundly deserves absolute and outright destruction.

Rocky| 4.10.10 @ 8:37AM

Actually the US is not a Democracy and we do not use a Parlimentary systes as Europeans do. We use Democratic principles such as voting. We are a Republic, a Nation of States thus the name United States of America. And Yes, the Framers of the Constitution were very aware of the "Democratic ideals" in Europe, which is why they first tried a Confederacy (a very loose agreement between states) and then moved to the limitations of a Federal Government. While our form of Governmenr is similar to what you see commonly in Europe, it has some very important distinctions.

J. Aberburg| 4.22.10 @ 7:51AM

Well, I wouldn't say that the US is not a democracy. I think the definition of democracy you're applying is too restrictive (too literal?). I guess the main reason you have a federal state is that the US is a huge country, which originally consisted of separate states. Then those states decided that they needed a federal structure to provide for mutual defense and foreign policy, but also to solve other problems together. As for Europe, Germany is also a federal republic, which has a different historical background than the US and the motives for forming a federal state may have been different, but you are wrong to simply contrast Europe and the US like you do.

European countries are different, just like the states are different (e.g., Texas, Massachusets, and California are culturally widely different, and might as well be separate countries). I guess Europeans tend to forget that and they have this one stereotype of what America and Americans are like, just like Americans tend to have a stereotype of Europe that has little to do with the real Europe. I think these stereotypes serve psychological and rethorical needs more than anything. Just take Ken (the old texan below), he needs to maintain this idea that people who have different political views than him are "whimps" in order to feel like a man (a psychological function). And since he has limited capacity for rational argumentation, he uses similar labels, i.e. "stagnant", "failure" etc., to maintain his simplistic enemy image (rethorical needs).

Ken (Old Texican)| 4.10.10 @ 1:18PM

Aberberg,
Yes, you guys in Europe have voted yourselves into stagnation and failure. Congratulations, wimps.

We are dead set against that.

J. Aberburg| 4.22.10 @ 7:31AM

The "Congratulations, wimps." gives you away.. You're not into rational argumentation, to you this primarily emotional - discussing with people like you is like discussing with a premenstrual woman, you're emotional, hysterical, unable to reason logically. It's sort of funny really. ...and about stagnation: Who have voted themselves into stagnation??? How is the American economy doing these days? How about social cohesion? What's the political climate like? Face it, you're a country in crisis. My country (Norway) has 3% unemployment, everybody has health care, we have HIGHER social mobility than you do (in other words, we are better at "the American dream" than you are), we are actualyl doing very well. And by the way, we have FAIR elections, unlike the US. So who's stagnant and a failure now? Does the truth hurt?

Bohred| 4.16.10 @ 11:55AM

Do you always need an enemy to define yourself against?

J. Aberburg| 4.22.10 @ 8:05AM

No, I don't. I'm a socially liberal, moderate conservative. I believe strongly in western civilization, i.e. liberal democracy, rule of law, individual rights, freedom of speech etc. I belive in rational thought and rational discourse as the bedrock of democracy and of western civilization.

Melvin| 4.9.10 @ 7:51AM

I think that most would agree that the biggest problem here is not with Congressman Ryan's Road map but with public ignorance of it.
Thanks to the American Spectator and the great many who post on this site, I have learned enough to go out to my small circle of friends and like thinkers and preach the gospel.
Living in NC I am also fortunate to have access to the John Locke Foundation in Raleigh which is a cornucopia of fiscal Conservative thought.
To institute a plan such Congressman Ryan has envisioned will only work if the Conservatives have total control. Now before all you progressives and Liberals start to roll your eyes in the back of your heads, let me first state since 2006 either Republicans nor especially the Democrats have done an extremely, extremely poor job of fiscally lowering the size and cost of government.
With that being said, "Both Parties have had their 15 minutes of fame and failed." Now the Conservatives need to start grilling those candidates in the primaries who will most adhere to fiscal Conservativeness and these candidates should read and comment to the public in their thoughts of Congressman Ryan's Roadmap.
But as many have touted here at American Spectator and all are in agreement, that it is education, education, and even more education that will turn things around.
An ignorant man will wander around in the desert and die of thirst, and educated man who is given a plan will walk across the desert with the shortest route to where the water is and prosper.
I don't know about the rest of you I'm tired of spending money on the fool who can't listen nor how to read a road map, and besides. It's too damn hot out here I'm tired, I want to go where the water and shade is.

Indy Voter| 4.9.10 @ 3:00PM

looking for conservative candidates in NC, you may want to learn about Frank Roche
http://www.rocheforcongress.com/

Purpleguy| 4.9.10 @ 5:48PM

"To institute a plan such Congressman Ryan has envisioned will only work if the Conservatives have total control." Really? those morons, and Ryan's one of them, threw that opportunity away since 1994 and certainly since Bush was president; don't you know that?

victor| 4.9.10 @ 7:26PM

The deficit took off when Pelosi took charge in Jan 2007.
At least the revenues were increasing every year under GW.

Indy Voter| 4.9.10 @ 9:06PM

graphs are telling, you might want to check this out.
http://hillbuzz.org/2010/02/16/debt-and-deficit/

Hoping for Change| 4.10.10 @ 8:04PM

Impressive. Facts like this blow away the liberal lies.

Osamas Pajamas| 4.10.10 @ 2:31AM

The Democrats have this "enemies list" --- denominated in epithets aimed at the people whose wallets they wish to hijack and take up residence inside. You can be a ‘Racist!’ and you can be a ‘Homophobe!’ and you can be a ‘Teabagger!’ --- a homosexual man taking his partner's testicles into his mouth. You can be ‘Selfish!’ and you can be a ‘Hick!’ and you can be a ‘Rube!’ You can be a ‘Right-wing-nut!’ and you can be "Unenlightened!" and you can be a ‘Fascist!’ --- altho' no one more closely approaches the precise description of ‘Fascist!’ than the usual Demo propagandist --- either official, or self-appointed.

So all you have to do to occupy multiple epithets on the Demos' enemies list is to insist that they take their hands off yourself, off your wallet, off your property, off your kids, off your car, off your weapons of self-defense, off your liberty, and off your freedom of speech. Insist on all these good things --- and that qualifies you to be spat upon by Democrats who regard this nastiness as just another entitlement of The Friends of All Mankind --- by a gang of lying, thieving, sticky-fingered, bloodsxcking, predatory humanitarian thugs. No political party in the history of America more profoundly deserves absolute and outright destruction.

Jim O'Brien| 4.9.10 @ 8:10AM

The Fair Tax is a superior idea. Fair Tax legislation has been introduced in both the House and the Senate, but it only has about 60 supporters so far, probably because it calls for major surgery. The Fair Tax legislation would completely eliminate the federal income tax system and the IRS, replacing those economic growth killers with a single national sales tax. These taxes would be collected by the States using existing mechanisms. There would be no need to file any tax returns, or comply with some 60,000 pages of regulations. The national sales tax would be a tax on consumption, not production. Anyone who buys new goods or any services would pay it, including illegal immigrants and other tax dodgers. There would be no payroll withholding taxes, no social security taxes, no capital gains or dividend taxes, no AMT, no federal estate tax, no complicated IRA rules ...... and so on. The result would be unprecedented economic growth.
www.fairtax.org is the place to go for more info...

Guy| 4.9.10 @ 11:30AM

I too am highly intrigued by the FairTax. And yes it is major surgery. We need to elevate the FairTax and Ryan's plan to the top of our national discussion. The only way out, even if we can reign in government size and spending, is to grow our economy. Both of these plans appear to have merit in that they free up capitalism and have transparency so WE THE PEOPLE can keep a watchful eye over future tax increases were either of these plans enacted.

LiveFreeOrDie| 4.9.10 @ 2:00PM

I like the fair tax idea but I don't have any faith in government (local, state or federal) that they wouldn't create new taxes or "fees" on top of the fair tax after it's implemented.

Joe| 4.9.10 @ 2:20PM

I agree, the Government waste so much money with the IRS and Citizen having to pay Accountants to figure out their taxes. Transition IRS agents to border Patrol agents. The system needs in overhaul of the corrupt tax exemptions for Congress's personal business & personal affairs. I hope the next candidate against President Obama, will use the Fair Tax on their campaign.

Jim O'Brien| 4.9.10 @ 3:06PM

You will hear some people say that the Fair Tax is "too complicated". I guess they think 60,000 pages of IRS regulations is straightforward and simple. With the Obama administration and the current Congress, we are in danger of having a national sales tax In Addition to the federal income tax. Better that we had the Fair Tax, a simple national sales tax, with no federal income tax , no IRS, no forms to file. Congress would no longer be able to use the tax code to manipulate our lives. We could control how much tax we pay by deciding how much to spend. Obviously, the more affluent would pay more taxes, just because they buy more stuff.

victor| 4.9.10 @ 7:32PM

Jim O'Brien
"I guess they think 60,000 pages of IRS regulations is straightforward and simple."

Just to put that into perspective, our yellow pages are 1000 pages and that would equal a stack that is 7 1/2 feet tall. Or 60 phonebooks.

The Flat Tax is basically taking what you make minus 15% or so and what you have left is what you keep.

Sounds good to me.

Jim O'Brien| 4.9.10 @ 8:46PM

Another comparison, if you will: I have a booklet which is 6 1/4 inches by 3 1/2 inches, with a total of 50 pages including 12 pages for a Foreward, notes, etc.
This booklet contains the entire Declaration of Independence and the Constitution, with Amendments. (Copies are available from Patriot Post for a small fee at www.patriotshop.us )

Margie| 4.10.10 @ 11:06PM

They also have e mails you can sign up for. I get The Founder's Quote of the Day. They have an awesome website as well. Today's was:
"It appears to me, then, little short of a miracle, that the Delegates from so many different States ... should unite in forming a system of national Government, so little liable to well founded objections." --George Washington, letter to Marquis de Lafayette, 1788

BBmom| 4.9.10 @ 10:32PM

Thank you for your wonderful description of the fair tax. I've been spreading the news of the fair tax to many around the nation as well. It's a brilliant idea and if we could find someone strong enough, maybe Paul Ryan, to run on this platform...I and many others that I know would vote for that person in a heartbeat!

Hoping for Change| 4.10.10 @ 8:09PM

As people come to understand this and realize IRS will be eliminated, I am sure the support will grow. Let's spread the word. This is the only fair means of taxing. Everyone contributes to the government coffer, not just a few.

rebel yell| 4.10.10 @ 10:03PM

If the Republicans would pass the Fair Tax, I believe the impact on the country would be so profound, they would become the majority party for a generation. Businesses would no longer have to be the tax collector for the welfare state. The IRS, and all its abuses would be eliminated.

The GOP needs to start their strategy now. Document the abuses of the IRS, show how they've destroyed lives and businesses. Highlight the sheer complexity of the existing tax code, and the simplicity of the Fair Tax. Force the Dems to defend the indefensible! Press the point that the sole purpose of the tax code should be to raise revenue for the just expenses of government. Declare loudly and proudly ,"WE ARE NOT GOING TO USE THE TAX CODE TO TELL YOU HOW TO LIVE YOUR LIVES!

SC Mike| 4.9.10 @ 8:10AM

Implicit in Ryan’s plan and his overall approach to the budget is a large measure of courage necessary for wielding the budget axe in the face of severe criticism and outright attacks from all the interest groups. Legislators will have to stand up and do some tough cutting in order to start getting control of current and future deficits. The attacks Ryan’s faced are nothing like what will come if Tea-Party-backed candidates prevail in this fall’s elections.

I don’t think that many of the candidates and the few reasonable incumbents realize that. With national elections taking place in 2012, how will these folks react? Should they start the fight and prepare the battlefield for the reinforcements (and new leadership) they know will come in 2012, or should they ease off a bit since they can’t really pass substantive reductions with Obama still in office?

If they are to retain public support, their only real alternative is the first one., to start the fight. We are all doomed to failure if they choose the second. The electorate wants action, not words.

Howard| 4.9.10 @ 8:30AM

What a comprehensive article! One Obviously this is a large hill to climb. Not only would Democrats and special interests fight tooth and nail; the liberal Mainstream Media will find no shortage of "victims" who will be negatively affected by any changes. The fact that 99% of the population will benefit from the changes will mean nothing to the Mainstream Media lefties.

Purpleguy| 4.9.10 @ 5:53PM

All the hysteria is unwarranted ... Balance the budget, fix the entitlement actuary, and don't hurt those dependent on the entitlements ... what is so difficult about that? Climb out of the Great Recession(in process), Spur innovation (Green Economy), reduce Business taxes toward growth (in process), provide quality education (in process), control immigration (to come) and problem solved (Obama's agenda) Thank you, goodbye.

victor| 4.9.10 @ 7:55PM

Purple Kool-Aid:
"“All the hysteria is unwarranted”
On your say so?
... “Climb out of the Great Recession(in process)”
By saddling and burdening businesses with higher taxation, more regulation and endless red tape?
“ Spur innovation (Green Economy)”
Any study you read, you will find that for every “green” job created, you lose two regular jobs.
,” reduce Business taxes toward growth (in process),”
By replacing them with taxes that will impede growth? Such as increasing capital gains taxes?
“ provide quality education (in process)”,
Is that why 70% of state schools have remedial education for incoming freshmen?
” control immigration (to come)”
Control? How? By legalizing all Illegals? You mean as in Poof! No more Illegal Aliens?
and “problem solved (Obama's agenda)”
Yes, comlete control of the formerly free enterprise system.

FreeRange| 4.9.10 @ 7:55PM

Easy to say, but HOW, exactly do YOU propose to do all that?? All your claims are highly dubious if not precisely the opposite of what is actually happening. The only growth is in government and on Wall Street; education is still a disaster and will be for the duration of all today's kids' schooling, the "green economy" is an unprofitable myth, business taxes are about to skyrocket thanks to Obamacare, and there is currently no political will to control immigration. Goodbye, and Good Luck!

Osamas Pajamas| 4.10.10 @ 2:33AM

The Democrats have this "enemies list" --- denominated in epithets aimed at the people whose wallets they wish to hijack and take up residence inside. You can be a ‘Racist!’ and you can be a ‘Homophobe!’ and you can be a ‘Teabagger!’ --- a homosexual man taking his partner's testicles into his mouth. You can be ‘Selfish!’ and you can be a ‘Hick!’ and you can be a ‘Rube!’ You can be a ‘Right-wing-nut!’ and you can be "Unenlightened!" and you can be a ‘Fascist!’ --- altho' no one more closely approaches the precise description of ‘Fascist!’ than the usual Demo propagandist --- either official, or self-appointed.

So all you have to do to occupy multiple epithets on the Demos' enemies list is to insist that they take their hands off yourself, off your wallet, off your property, off your kids, off your car, off your weapons of self-defense, off your liberty, and off your freedom of speech. Insist on all these good things --- and that qualifies you to be spat upon by Democrats who regard this nastiness as just another entitlement of The Friends of All Mankind --- by a gang of lying, thieving, sticky-fingered, bloodsxcking, predatory humanitarian thugs. No political party in the history of America more profoundly deserves absolute and outright destruction.

FTM| 4.10.10 @ 5:10AM

Purpleguy,

This "Green Economy" idea looks real good on paper, from the ivory tower/rose colored glasses perspective but collapses rapidly in actual reality. Case in point, with electricity selling at between four and six cents per kilowatt hour these idiotic windmills have a return on investment measured in decades. Not a good investment. Currently windmills are being shut down with they break down because it isn't cost effective to repair them. Another problem with these windmills is that you need a conventional power plant to back them up when the wind doesn't cooperate. So you end up with a coal or gas fired or (Gayia forbid) a nuke plant idling while the wind is blowing. Wind energy production and the infrastructure to produce windmills was a stupid idea to start with. The only reason that the technology was persued to start with was beacuse of the fraud perpertrated in the name of global warming/climate change whatever it is that they're calling it this week, speculation on my part.

Next there are legitimate alternate power generation technologies, pebble bed fission reactors, breeder reactor technology and traveling wave fission reactor technology that we could be taking advantage of were it not for the tree-hugging, otter-washing, birkenstock-wearing, chrystal-clutching, tree-hugging, leaf-peeping circus freaks at the Sierra Club and the WWF and the "Enviro-Mental Defense Fund having a sign-waving, snot-nosed drooling fit at the mere mention of generating electricity.

Time to admit the obvious, the Enviro-mentalists have a hidden agenda that has to do with reverting mankind to dark ages technology. Excepting, of course, the enviro-mental elite that "need" to have electricity so that they can properly adore Gayia.

Margie| 4.10.10 @ 9:01PM

Enviro-mentalists. Good one. I'm stealing it.

Oldefarte| 8.11.12 @ 12:36PM

Sadly, there's nothing MENTAL about these morons!!!!!!!

Hoping for Change| 4.10.10 @ 8:17PM

Purpleguy, you need to wake up and smell the roses. Nothing Obama has done has been advantageous for this country. I am amazed there are still people out there who support the attack on and destruction of this Republic by that usurper socialist in office. Big controlling government is not what our founding fathers had in mind. It controls and cripples all it touches.

Pingback| 4.9.10 @ 8:42AM

Must Know Headlines 4.9.2010 — ExposeTheMedia.com links to this page. Here’s an excerpt:

…Landmark’ Nuke Treaty, Only ABC Allows For ‘Controversy’ More Australia: Muslim Strangles Wife To Death For Being “Too Australian” Paul Ryan’s “Roadmap” To Save America From Its Looming Fiscal Collapse   Share and Enjoy: Leave a Comment Name E-mail Website Notify me of followup comments via e-mail Previous post: Congressman Should Know Better Than To Compare Tea…

PCC| 4.9.10 @ 8:46AM

Dear Mr. Klein,

Excellent article. Thank you. Well done.

JP| 4.9.10 @ 9:17AM

It took 70 years for us to get to this point. The budget, the tax code, the enormous entitelments load, are all one huge mess. The attack on Ryan's idea by the Dems politcal machine indicate nothing has changed; the GOP's reluctance to even offer any meaningful reduction in entitlements indicate nothing has changed.

Medicaid alone next year will exceed defense spending. The combined Medicare Social Security spend will top $1 trillion by 2014. The total unfunded liability of Medicare/Social Security is over $80 trillion through 2080. The US government could sieze all private assets and liquidate them and we would still come up $20 trillion short. In other words, there is not enough potential tax money available to even fund the 2 big entitlement programs. Forget about defense, the Post Office, HHS, etc... So, even massive tax increases will not even come close to paying for all of those promises.

Ryan's plan may not be perfect. But it is a start. Too bad we couldn't have started to thing about these problems 20 years ago.

Heatpacker| 4.9.10 @ 2:49PM

One of the primary operational differences between Republican and Democrat politicians is that Republicans are pusillanimous in the defense of good ideas and Democrats are unswerving in the defence of bad ideas.

Radegunda| 4.9.10 @ 5:04PM

Exactly. Well said.

Purpleguy| 4.9.10 @ 5:55PM

they did, just that the Republicans ain't any better at it than the Democrats. they have to work together to solve these huge problems and then we don't have all the revolting anger and hysteria like we've had over healthcare reform.

Michael Adams| 4.10.10 @ 9:41PM

What is this "hysteria over health reform"? We simply read the bills, and because they said the same thing no matter who printed them out, and thus provoked the same questions, we were called astroturf. If I had to locate some hysteria, I'd look at the lugubrious accounts of uninsured and underinsured people, whose bills were actually already being taken care of by their various state programs, and/or by private charities. We heard that there were forty five million people "without healthcare." When someone pointed out that a third of those were illegal aliens and that the Democrats insisted that their program did not cover illegals, the number dropped to thirty million. Now, commentators tell us that the health care system has not been set on a crash course, but that thirty million people now have health care. They already did. The change is that many of those thirty million have health insurance, although about half of them did not want it.
The huge problem is that we are set on a course to a place where health care is largess, dispensed by politicians. Anyone who tries to tinker with the mess, perhaps to clean it up, perhaps to return a bit of private control to individuals, is instantly attacked as "trying to take away your health care rights!!!!!" We have already seen it with Social Security, with Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, at the mere mention of an audit. I am a nurse, and I can see the obvious problems with bureaucratic medicine, as in VA or Medicaid. But the larger problem of demagoguery will be what ultimately does us in.

claire solt| 4.9.10 @ 9:48AM

I lose patience with partisan talking points,especially Dems who tout the projected surplus due to work of Clinton and Newt. Imagine, if you will, how different this would all be if Clinton had kept his zipper up and gone after Osama bin Laden in the 90's., instead of giving us a lurid sex scandal and impeachment. Then imagine if they had come to the table to fix social security instead of making a pilgrimage to ther statue of FDR when bush urged reform. We would be a lot better off with better Democrats, instead of these rigid ideologues.

I think the best path to getting there woulod be to urge that Congress decide on a mandatory retirement age for law makers and judges. It would sweeep out most of the dottering old reactionaries who have been hanging on to old ideas and perogatives. I am retired and think the spectacle of robert byrd or Strom Thurman tottering around the capital in their frail 90's ridiculous.

Guy| 4.9.10 @ 11:34AM

While I can empathize with your points, if we go to the other extreme with term limits, can we afford a bunch of inexperienced "statesmen" of the like of Obama?

GreyLion| 4.9.10 @ 12:57PM

We certainly couldn't do any worse than the "magic one" and would have frequent opportunities to do better.

FreeRange| 4.9.10 @ 8:02PM

The only expertise "experienced" professional politicians gain is how to keep themselves employed and enriched in perpetuity. The Founders envisioned government by citizens donating their time and effort, not by a class of professional political lifers. None of these people is indispensable, not one.

Margie| 4.10.10 @ 10:27PM

I don't know about term limits. What I do think though is that the reason most likely that there are so many life long politicians is because not enough people vote. We have it so good in this country that it doesn't seem important enough to a lot of people to get out and vote. That coupled together with what the young ones are taught in the public school system and there you have it. Now that the anti-American President is making things so absolutely horrible, it is hard to ignore the seriousness of what's happening. Unemployment, the taking over of the health care system, the allying with our enemies and the snubbing of our allies.. there is an awakening and it looks like we're going to win big time.

MTM| 4.9.10 @ 10:03AM

The flat tax is the weak link in this chain. Other than that, this plan might work.

There are a variety of unintended consequences that follow from the flat tax that Ryan (and his mentor Kemp) do not consider. Destabilization of American fiscal habits (even taxation) is their own principle they ought to follow in this regard as in every other. A culture of tax incentivized behavior is well ingrained in the U.S.. Also, suppose you get a flat tax. Suppose then that the government swings lefty again. Gone are all of the thickets of breaks, loopholes, and various hedges. Gone is the difficulty of getting at every human behavior without singling out the various industries and making political enemies with various groups. There is just a big, flat tax code, where all are equal, and where the only way for liberals to raise taxes is to tax everybody with one simple sliding scale. "Tax hike" vs. "no tax hike." When taxes go high in a flat tax world, private charities, private schooling, and private investment will be hit far harder than in a complicated tax code, thereby making the Big Govt. steamroller that much more successful in the long run. The byzantine tax code has its advantages for the private sector. With the flat tax, there is nowhere to hide, nowhere to run.

A simple plan, violently executed works well on the battlefield and the football field. It is not a good idea for the regulation of a varied and flourishing free society. Flatten txation and you flatten American society. The flat tax? All the better to crush you with, my dear...

FreeRange| 4.9.10 @ 8:10PM

One main advantage of the Flat Tax is precisely that the government wouldn't pick winners and losers among private enterprise. Another is precisely the fact the nobody gets to "hide" from taxes simply because they can afford sharper accountants. It is true equality under the law. That will also help guarantee that the rates will stay low, because nobody can pretend it will only hurt the other guy; pressure to keep rates reasonable would come from everywhere.

Margie| 4.10.10 @ 10:45PM

I agree. The Leftist Socialist Fascists HATE the flat tax. Why? Because they can't punish the so called rich! Socialist Fascists cannot bear to "let" the individuals who are able by their own God given free will and talent keep what they earn. Socialism and Fascism's Master is the same Master that Communism has, the Devil, whose purpose is to keep the individual a slave.
The Leftists in this country hate individual freedom and believe that, like their Master, they should work to make certain to suffocate individual freedom every which way they can until we are so unempowered and destitute that there is nowhere to turn but to government.
It's spiritual warfare and it's Biblical truth, but even if you don't realize it as such you do know it's happening.
If Paul Ryan is for a flat tax then he's for the freedom of the individual and for America, which makes this here freedom loving person quite happy.

Mimi| 4.9.10 @ 10:45AM

Thank you again Mr.Klein: Great detail, educational,and timely. We are all impressed with Rep Paul Ryan. We will soon be going door to door thru-out this whole nation. Our armor should be besides the "CONSTITUTION", registration forms and copies of your April, 09 2010 article in American Spectator. I do not know when in history such a groundswell of American People have literally, " Taken to the streets". I believe it has been forced upon us, because those who represent us at the federal level, have most certainly failed us. Something has severely broken down. It is'nt just about politics. To the depth of our guts, the whole of our citizens are seeing treachery on the horizon. We see the deep pain and TEAR'S in the eyes of "LADY LIBERTY" herself. We hear the SHOFER ram's horn, trumpet blazing,........ across this country,calling us out, summoning,warning us We the present people of this land WILL make a stand, for us and our precious children.

Margie| 4.10.10 @ 10:48PM

Amen, Mimi.

Thorvald| 4.9.10 @ 11:19AM

Rather than arguing about the effect of this or that Republican remedy (Ponnru inter alii), we should do what's right. I submit that the most generous people on the face of the earth will step up, if necessary, and if the government has not already seized their treasure. To argue against this is to say we are not capable of governing ourselves (which is a different argument).
Real, Constitutional government is a lot like Christianity in the quip from Mark Twain: seems like a really good idea, but no one's ever tried it.

Joanie| 4.9.10 @ 2:12PM

True, both require moral adherents to succeed.

Purpleguy| 4.9.10 @ 5:57PM

Then we're lost ... it's not human nature to be perfect, including in morals.

Bydand76| 4.10.10 @ 9:35AM

That is a cop-out Purpleguy.
Since we are not perfect then........? What?

How do you know it is not in our nature to be "perfect"?

I would argue that IT IS in our nature to strive for perfection, it is simply a question of which moral "perfection" you choose.

Thus conflict results as it is also in our nature to prove that our ideological form of perfection is the correct template?

If you assume that we are lost then why strive and struggle to argue any point at all?

Thoughts?

Pro Libertate!

ccc| 4.9.10 @ 1:26PM

This whole "fiscal crisis" is a scam. I have not seen incontrovertible evidence that there will definitely be a fiscal crisis. And even if there were such crisis americans can't do anything about and it's somebody elses fault.

NO TROLLS!| 4.9.10 @ 2:10PM

Crack addict; one of Obama's useless idiots.

Bydand76| 4.10.10 @ 9:39AM

I have some ocean front property in Arizona for sale.
Interested?

Hoping for Change| 4.10.10 @ 8:26PM

Must the a 9/11 truther as well.

BetteS| 4.9.10 @ 2:04PM

ccc: WHAT??!!

Sue Palmer| 4.9.10 @ 3:12PM

Learn more about Paul Ryan and become a fan!

http://www.facebook.com/pages/.....375?ref=mf

JayJay| 4.9.10 @ 3:13PM

I am 50+ and I like his ideas for SS,MediCare, and the flat tax. No matter what you make, you would get to keep the same percentage and that is fair to all. I would like to know if and by how much these plans could reduce the size of the Federal government. For things to truly change the gov't needs a major reduction in size. I also believe that this reduction would increase efficiency.

Tim*| 4.9.10 @ 4:04PM

The Flat Tax trumps any National Sales Tax ( Fair Tax ) or VAT.

Hoping for Change| 4.10.10 @ 8:31PM

I'm not so sure the flat tax would trump fair tax. With Fair tax any and all purchasers would pay whether they worked or not. If they buy, they pay. The problem we have now is too few workers and too many takers. Even international tourist would contribute to running our country.

jhoger| 4.9.10 @ 5:16PM

Would any of you true believers like to comment on the fact that deficit hawk Ryan voted for the unpaid for fiscal abomination of Medicare Part D?

FTM| 4.10.10 @ 8:02AM

The guy is a politician right? The first thing on a politician's mind after winning an election is winning the next election right? A politician will do or say whatever it is that they have to do or say to get re-elected right? According to a politician you're too stupid to live your own life aren't you?

Now how is it about the actions of a politician whatever party that surprise you?

Pingback| 4.9.10 @ 6:50PM

Paul Ryan Expose’ – ‘The Man With The Plan’ « … It's For Lookin' Through links to this page. Here’s an excerpt:

…Board WMC Zoo Interchange Search Subscribe Entries Comments ↓ Archives ↓ April 9th, 2010 • 17:04 Paul Ryan Expose’ – ‘The Man With The Plan’ This month’s American Spectator has an excellent expose’ on Wisconsin Congressman Paul Ryan (R) and his ‘Roadmap for America’s Future’ “”Roadmap for America’s Future,” (is) a sweeping…

freebird| 4.9.10 @ 8:49PM

PURPLE GUY
It's really annoying to hear about "anger and hysteria". One might almost think you are trying to "smear" your neighbors....is that possible ??
There was a lot of anger based on extensive intellligent research by smart well informed law abiding citizens. Citizens who want real reform, know what that is when they see it, and know when it isn't really there since they are conversant with the details of the proposed changes, in spite of being kept in the dark by spin and lack of information, they did their own investigative work and found answers in great detail. In many cases, they know more about the provisions of all policy and legislation than their elected officials do. Certainly more than you appear to.
I didn't notice any "hysteria" by those protesting the flawed policies and lies coming out of the radical White House. I've been watching. I noticed disgraceful brush off of legitimate concerns, and appropriate deep anger at such disrespect.

Jim Cap| 4.9.10 @ 8:55PM

I don't think this Paul Ryan guy has his numbers straight. His facts don't check out that well either, unfortunately.

MBT| 4.9.10 @ 9:54PM

MBT mbt

Pingback| 4.9.10 @ 10:58PM

CBO Scorecard of economic plan links to this page. Here’s an excerpt:

…care system without touching the tax code; and fundamental tax reform is necessary to spur economic growth, which in turn will make it easier to pay off our debt. The Man With the Plan The American Spectator : The Man With the Plan sorry, the computer i'm at now won't allow me to insert the link...but you should be able to copy and paste to the original article. ''There are no constraints on the human mind, no…

Lorenzo| 4.9.10 @ 11:32PM

Paul Ryan is a stud. He is just what this country needs. He would be a great Presidential or Vice-Presidential candidate (with Marco Rubio).

Chris | 4.10.10 @ 1:36AM

Yeah, he's the man with the plan, alright. He wants to privatize social security, eliminate medicare, and raise the deficit by 1.8 trillion dollars. It's a great plan, if you're bad at math.

FTM| 4.10.10 @ 4:52AM

Sorry Chris, not to be a goober or anything but the current buffoon-in-chief blew past 1.8 trillion a while back. I don't disagree with the arguement that increasing the debt is ever a good thing however let's at least make the effort to tar both sides equally.

Karl from Chicago| 4.10.10 @ 5:19AM

Sorry FTM - The current president's policies have not added to the deficit. The deficit is the result of the economic downturn and the policies that were inherited. See the analysis by the Center on Budget and Policy Priorities.

As for Congressman's Ryan's plan having been vetted by the CBO, look at the CBO letter. Ryan's staff instructed the CBO to pretend that his plan would have no negative revenue impacts. I believe it is on page 3 or 4 of the CBO letter. To claim any CBO vetting of Ryan's plan is pure fantasy. There is a good reason people who have looked at it don't want to campaign on it.

FTM| 4.10.10 @ 7:53AM

Karl,

'Ol buddy, let me start out by saying that Bush II was an idiot. I didn't vote for the guy, didn't vote for Kerry or for algore. Truth be told, the last guy I voted for was H. Ross Perot.

Now with that said, you have to be living in Chicago to make a statement like that. President Obama has spent more in one year than President Bush did in eight. The recession is a factor, yes but not the complete answer. Also a part of the answer is this insane notion of Karl Marx and Freidrich Ingells, and Saul Alinsky and Barak Obama that wealth can be stolen from the people that created it and given to people that did not earn it. President Obama inherited a national debt a little over ten trillion and the national debt is just short of fourteen trillion. President Obama and the Democrat controlled House and Senate are spending like drunken sailors.

The other side of the coin, I'm sure if past performance is any indicator, that if the Republicans are given enough rope will make just as big a mess as the Democrats.

Please don't take the Chicago statement too seriously, I lived in the National Socialist People's Republic of Illinois for eleven years not counting the time that I was in the Navy north of Chicago. The president that we have now is nothing more than a south side of Chicago welfare class rabble rouser that has never had a private sector job in his life. As far as I'm concerned there's not a lot of difference experience wise between the President and Sarah Palin. Nicoli Sarcozy has it pretty close to right, the guy is an empty suit.

I really don't mean to be a jackass, I'm frustrated at seeing a nation bankrupted by a bunch of self serving political hacks but a step in the right direction is to stop using the inheritance dodge. It's starting to get a little stale.

Hoping for Change| 4.10.10 @ 8:37PM

Hey Karl from Chicage, look at this link and argue with the graphs. I can not believe anyone except someone from Chicago could make such a statement with a straight face.
http://hillbuzz.org/2010/02/16/debt-and-deficit/

Nick| 4.10.10 @ 2:27AM

Pay no attention to PurpleJackass folks.

He doesn't even know that Virginia governors don't run for re-election because they can only serve one term, then have to wait 4 years to run again.

He also likes to berate others for spelling "hypocrisy" wrong, and in the same post he wrote "hypocrit", like a moron.

He is not worthy of debate with grown-ups.

FTM| 4.11.10 @ 7:16AM

Nick, buddy,

pay specific attention to this Purpleguy. Really. The only way that you can ever hope to defeat your opponent is to know your opponent. Get examples of his weapons systems and study them.

Talk to this Purpleguy and get him to tell you what motivates him. You don't have to agree with him but you do need to understand him. "Your enemy is never a villain in his own eyes..."

I think that this forum is a wonderful place to learn about people from both sides of the arguement and formulate ideas.

Nick| 4.12.10 @ 12:05AM

FTM,

PurpleJackass isn't interested in an honest debate.

He is a drive-by poster, only interested in hijacking threads.

And, he is not that bright, as I pointed out in my previous comment.

I have no problem arguing with liberals who will debate honestly and civilly. But not with ill-informed school children.

FTM| 4.12.10 @ 8:09AM

That's my point. The guy is a bomb tosser. He wants some sort of gratification from the exchange, else he wouldn't be involved. The question is, how do you frustrate someone seeking gratification in such a fashion. frustration is much worse than losing an arguement don't you think?

Nick| 4.12.10 @ 12:26PM

FTM,

If by "frustrate", you mean embarrassing, ridiculing, and shaming; then, yes, we agree!

When a drive-by poster writes something ignorant, or just a flat out lie, he should be reminded of it constantly. Lest others might think they know what they're talking about.

Like 3/5 Bob.

FTM| 4.12.10 @ 4:10PM

I think that you are right Nick. An error in judgement or a lapse in education or ethic should be held up for public inspection at every occasion. When the person relents or recants then everyone is better off, don't you think?

I always refer to President Obama as "President Obama. I think tha the name calling and the like should be left to the folks on the other side. In the midst of an arguement who is doing and saying what makes it very apparent to the casual observer who is who. I think that this singular trait is what makes the Tea Party the Tea Party. The opposition has to seed in "agent Provocateurs" in order to cause scenes and turmoil. This only increases the popularity of the Tea Party.

Nick| 4.12.10 @ 6:18PM

FTM,

I agree with you, up to a point.

I won't go after anyone, or call names, until I am, myself, attacked. Or someone else here at TAS is attacked, or called a viscious name.

But, I do refer to O'Bama as "President Dither." The Left are using Alinsky's "Rules for Radicals."

It would be foolish, for we conservatives, to unilaterally disarm.

I believe it can be done in a funny, non-obscene way. (Unlike the way the Left does it.) The Left must be torn down using their own tactics against them.

FTM| 4.12.10 @ 10:06PM

I don't call it disarming. I say let the opposition make themselves look to be what they are. If they want top behave like a collection of half-educated over-indulged brat children then so be it. Take a read at Sun Zu, if your enemy appears to be destroying himself, let him.

Nick| 4.13.10 @ 1:41AM

FTM,

We will have to agree to disagree.

"They pull a knife, you pull a gun. He sends one of yours to the hospital, you send one of his to the morgue. That's the Chicago way!"
- Jim Malone, "The Untouchables"

FTM| 4.10.10 @ 2:34AM

What plan? All I see is more juggling of the books and no action in regards to getting control of entitlement spending.

I want to see a politician, some politician, any politician stand up and state the truth. Truth number one, our "allies" the Europeans, the Japanese and the South Koreans would not be able to afford single payer health care systems if they were paying for their own national defense. Fact. Truth. Get the US out of Japan, South Korea and NATO. The Europeans hate us almost as much as the Arabs. Let the Europeans pay their own way for a while and see how well their social democracies do.

Lets see the French keep the mother lovin' Russians at arms length for a genertation or two. That ought to be entertaining. I bet they couldn't hold the line for a week or two. Same for the Japanese and Koreans in regards to the Chinese.

Get the US out of the UN and get the UN out of the US. What benifit is the UN? The US pays seventy percent of the UN annual operating budget so that we can negotiate with our enemies. We don't need the UN, get rid of the UN drain on the American taxpayer. It's a worn out joke that every time the UN writes a bunch of checks with their bulldog mouths that their puppy dog butts can't cash they start whining for mother green and the killing machine to come straighten their mess out. How many carrier battle groups does the UN have?

Get the federal government out of the childbearing subsidy business. My son comes home from school and tells about how one of his classmates had just returned to school from delivering her first child and told all the other little girls that she was going to get $300.00 a mumff from the gubmint. Have one kid, OK you made a mistake and here are your benifits. The second kid, no benifits till after sterilization for the father and the mother. Why pay people that have proven themselves to be useless to reproduce?

Abolish the federal income tax on businesses. This is easy too, businesses don't pay taxes, customers, end users, pay taxes. The federal income tax on businesses is 35%. Abolish the federal income tax on businesses and we'll be sending buses to Mexico to recruit workers.

Get the US out of the WTO, GATT and NAFTA. Why attempt to behave in a civil fashion according to an established set of rules with people that hate us?

Tell our "Trading Partners" the Europeans and the Asians most specifically that "free trade" is a two way street. We pay the Japanese to build cars in the US through tax incentives and allow our trading partners to ban or restrict the import of cars manufactured in the US and then turn around and tell Chrysler, Ford and GM that they need to learn to compete. Kiss my knuckle-dragging, car-building butt. I guarantee you that if GM was selling cars in Tokyo, Japan there wouldn't be a Toyota. The truth of the matter is that maybe the Japanese build a better car than GM does and if that's the case then shame on GM. How come American rice farmers can't sell rice in Japan? How come American wine producers can't sell wine in the EU? Why is that? One would think that "Free Trade" is a two way street. What one does not sell of one commodity one makes up for in the sales of another commodity. The reality is that our "Trading Partners" have nearly unrestricted access to American markets and American manufacturers, the ones that are left have practically no access to foreign markets.

This is easy really. Apply the savings from the above and a multitude of other savings to the national debt. Until I hear politicians start dealing with realities stop bothering me. On election day I'll stay home and watch the cartoon network. A pox on both of your houses.

If you want to call this a screed then so be it. I can't control what you do. In my most humble opinion and it is just my opinion, we need to establish a new mind set that no one has a right to exist as a result of plunder. What happens when the people that are being plundered stop producing the wealth? That's the big hole in the communist/socialist/liberal/progressive (whatever they're calling themselves this week) ideology, you can't point a gun at somebody and say, "create wealth." When is it my turn to ride in the wagon?

Hoping for Change| 4.10.10 @ 8:42PM

Well said and thought provoking. Would you consider running for office. We sure to need someone who is not afraid to tell it like it is. We can't afford more of the same for very long.

FTM| 4.11.10 @ 4:23AM

Yeah, I'll run for office and as sure as politicians lie somebody'll kill me.

FTM| 4.11.10 @ 7:08AM

Consider for a moment the history of warfare. What I'll be geting at shortly is the "War on Terror."

Conflict is likely when the force equation between potential combattants becomes out of balance. Say for instance that one side has a large population with which to threaten another side. The other side counters with a statement such as "yes, you do have more people but our weapon systems are more lethal." The equation between sides is more or less in balance.

What the savages that we are facing right now are saying is that they see our carrier battle groups, our strategic bombing wings, our reconnisance satellites and so on and are saying you can't stop a moving van full of ANFO and for the most part they're right. The savages that were are in conflict with don't have a Wolf Blitzer or a Maureen Doud (whatever) whining on the TV 24/7.

The mistake that we've engaged in is trying to use a modern, mechanized military force that is designed to destroy another modern mechanized military force to destroy a bunch of illiterate bronze age goat herders living in caves.

Would you like to win the "War on Terror?" Consider for a moment, how does one set about winning a war? Unfortunately you can't win a war by hurting people and breaking things although that's one methodology most commonly applied. One wins a war by destroying the enemy's will to fight.

The ability to destroy an enemy's will to fight varies from potential combattant to potential combattant. This case in point, our enemy is willing to cut a guy's head off on the internet in order to demonstrate his degree of resolve. He's also capitalizing on the fact that he can and will do things to innocent bystanders that we will not allow ourselves to do.

Now, me personally, and this is the main reason that you don't want me acting in a position of authority under any circumstances, I would wait till the wee hours of the morning in some burg like Mecca when everybody is home in bed, the kids asleep and the dog curled up on the floor and carpet bomb the place into a tall, smoking hole in the ground in direct response to cutting a guy's head off on the internet. I'd demonstrate to the enemy that I am perfectly capable and willing to commit acts of barbarism hundreds of orders of magnitude greater than the worst that he can concieve let alone commit.

Can't do that however, mores the pity.

So, how do you win the war on terror? In this case, give the enemy exactly what they want. The enemy wants to live in the 5th century and stone women to death because they got raped. Stuff like that. OK, go ahead. Retract all vestiges of Western Civilization and most especially Western Technology. No trade, no commerce no travel. We here in the US get our oil from the Canadians and from Central America. The oil from the Saudi oil fields go to Europe. Let the EU deal with these savages. No American power generation technology. No American medical technology, no American weapons systems. Go whine to the Chinese, maybe they'll sell you some knock-off third rate junk for you to kill each other with. When you grow up and decide to start acting like big people give us a call, perhaps you can use a telephone. Alexander Grahm Bell invented one, perhaps you can scavenge the metal and plastics from an AK to make one.

Let's see how these folks like actually living under the social utopia that they want. I'm just a beat up old man. One thing that I've learned in life is to be careful what you wish for, you might get it. We could save a lot of money, money that could be spent on paying down the national debt by giving this bunch of flea infested, sword swinging, monobrows exactly what they want.

Osamas Pajamas| 4.10.10 @ 2:35AM

The Democrats have this "enemies list" --- denominated in epithets aimed at the people whose wallets they wish to hijack and take up residence inside. You can be a ‘Racist!’ and you can be a ‘Homophobe!’ and you can be a
‘Teabagger!’ --- a homosexual man taking his partner's testicles into his mouth. You can be ‘Selfish!’ and you can be a ‘Hick!’ and you can be a ‘Rube!’ You can be a ‘Right-wing-nut!’ and you can be "Unenlightened!" and you can be a ‘Fascist!’ --- altho' no one more closely approaches the precise description of ‘Fascist!’ than the usual Demo propagandist --- either official, or self-appointed.

So all you have to do to occupy multiple epithets on the Demos' enemies list is to insist that they take their hands off yourself, off your wallet, off your property, off your kids, off your car, off your weapons of self-defense, off your liberty, and off your freedom of speech. Insist on all these good things --- and that qualifies you to be spat upon by Democrats who regard this nastiness as just another entitlement of The Friends of All Mankind --- by a gang of lying, thieving, sticky-fingered, bloodsxcking, predatory humanitarian thugs. No political party in the history of America more profoundly deserves absolute and outright destruction.

FTM| 4.10.10 @ 3:50AM

A hallmark of the outright lunacy of the typical garden variety liberal that I encounter is their absoloute tolerance to just about anything... short of disagreeing with their definition of tolerance. Tell the typical garden variety liberal that the able-bodied person drawing social welfare ought to be doing something in order to pay their own way and see what happens. There aren't enough names in the book to cover what you're going to be called. They'll make up new names to call you.

Liberalism is the most profound mental disorder yet encountered by mankind.

adam| 4.10.10 @ 3:21AM

I'm so confused. I thought the CBO was not to be trusted. That their models were faulty, that their parameters were politically bias and that they couldn't look far into the future. Why should I trust their predictions for 2080 if I'm not supposed to trust their predictions for 2020?

FTM| 4.10.10 @ 3:54AM

I'm with you on this one Adam. If the federal tax code is beyond the comprehension of the Infernal Revenue Service then how could financial conditions ten years down the road be knowable? One would think that CBO projections would be about as reliable as climate predictions for ten years in the future. Last I heard the government can't even decide for sure how large the national debt is.

Pingback| 4.10.10 @ 6:24AM

Fresh Bilge » Stupefied links to this page. Here’s an excerpt:

“yooper” Bart Stupak. “He was a coward when he voted, and a coward when he quit.” By contrast, one of the brightest House Republicans hails from neighboring Wisconsin. Paul Ryan has a plan to subdue the national debt and reform health care at the same time — what Obama promises, but for real. The Congressional Budget Office has checked the numbers and said it would work. Only…

axbucxdu| 4.10.10 @ 11:05AM

1. Cut off USG's counterfeit money supply.
2. Eliminate the income tax.
3. Return to tariff financing of the government. Levy them against foreign goods in proportion to the home government's currency manipulation. If purchasing power parity equals the official exchange rate then the tariff rate would be zero.
4. Institute a domestic tax based on consumption not income.

Laugh all you want, but nothing material will change politically until Congress can no longer spend money (the FRN) that is completely synthetic.

Oldefarte| 4.10.10 @ 12:36PM

Viable candidates sould promote SERIOUSLY CUTTING THE GOVERNMENT'S BUDGET. Nothing should be OFF LIMITS. Obama/Welfarecare should be gutted/scraped and thrown in the junk pile where it belongs. End of story!!!!!!!!!!!

Margie| 4.10.10 @ 8:49PM

In NJ, Chris Christie is asking that the public school works not take their usual raises in return for not having some programs cut and you would think he is asking them to commit suicide.

He's taking on the Union "thugocrisy" and I'm loving it. But when you take candy from babies boy do they whip up a storm! I actually pray for his safety. I also wouldn't mind if he threw his hat in the ring for President! We need more like him.

RSDN| 4.11.10 @ 1:39AM

Paul Ryan=Ron Paul lite.
A good start, but more is needed.

RetAF| 4.11.10 @ 10:44AM

Some tough decisions are coming, and both sides of the aisle are going to have to man-up.

After November Obama is going to do his best Claude Rains impersonation: "I'm shocked, shocked at the size of this deficit!"

The [now] Republican controlled congress will have no choice but to pass a national VAT and attempt to control entitlement spending. The AARP will use demagoguery to scare Grampa and Grandma into re-electing Obama for a second term...the can will get kicked down the road again and my 401k will tank even further.

Health care spending by the US government NOW already exceeds the cost of the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq by ten times. The Medicaid spending alone for our four largest states costs more than the wars do. This is set to increase exponentially when the so-called health care "reforms" take effect.

Republicans are going to get the blame either way, so I hope they make the right decisions. The doubling of the deficit in the last two years by design is a "fait accompli"...

philfl63| 4.11.10 @ 3:38PM

Again and again, the "experts" speak. The current corrupt broken system is corrupt and broken because of the experts. This Ryan guy is another professional pol. He says he had no choice but to vote for President Bush's massive entitlement programs. Nonsense. He could have shouted to the rooftops to anyone who would listen that those proposals were bad, debt-ridden ideas, and he could have voted no. At least he would be on record as standing by his principles. And he would now be credible. He is also proposing schemes that the gov't experts would control to "fix" the problems gov't created in the first place. These schemes are just ways to continue taking our money to continue Social Security, Medicare, welfare, etc. These programs could be scrapped within a few years. Take the monies wasted on low-life welfare recipients and give it lump sum to current SS and Medicare recipients. They can save, invest, or spend that money as they need. They could all be bought off within three years, the systems scrapped, and then I would no longer have to foot their bills. This includes my mother who is on SS, and who resides in my house. Yes, people might actually have to take care of their own aged and infirm without gov't (my tax dollar) money. What a concept.

FTM| 4.11.10 @ 10:13PM

http://www.apatheticvoter.com/.....racies.htm

Although the origin of the “Downfall of Democracies” is often attributed to Alexander Tyler, a Scottish history professor who lived in the 1700s, the origin of the material below may be attributed to Alexander Tytler, or even Arnold Toynbee, or Lord Thomas Macaulay. Whoever can lay claim to the study of democracies that had existed until that time had remarkable conclusions. He had this to say about democracy in general, “A democracy is always temporary in nature: it simple cannot exist as a permanent form of government. A democracy will continue to exist up until the voters discover that they can vote themselves generous gifts from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority will always vote for the candidates who promise the most benefits from the public treasury, with the result that every democracy will finally collapse due to loose fiscal policy, (which is) always followed by a dictatorship.”

Based on the assumption that western civilization is indeed bankrupt it would seem that the question is what are you going to do in order to preserve yourself and your family during the dictatorship?

CCE | 4.12.10 @ 3:29AM

it is the serious topic

Rmm| 4.12.10 @ 8:22AM

First and foremost, what is sorely needed is an HONEST discussion about issues coming from Washington. Is that possible?
Ryans plan has merit. Obama had merit, once, long ago. Enough of these ideas about improving our way of doing things and in the end have them morph into some monstrosity, such as we just witnessed. The end game should be to lessen the scope of big government, and to STOP growing this leviathan.

FTM| 4.12.10 @ 4:22PM

Have you read "Atlas Shrugged?" I think that the way to kill the beast is to deprive the beast of what it needs most and that's the product of the work that you put into building your daily life.

You have a job, you earn an income and in turn you transform that income into the commodities that you need in order to survive from day to day. We all do this.

I think that we need to start taking some of the wealth that we generate off of the table. For example, most people get paid, their paycheck is direct deposited into a checking account and then off you go to the grocery to get food and the like. You pay what you owe on your house and/or car and the like. So on and so fourth.

All of these transactons are "on the grid" and can be tracked electronically. The government, federal, state and local get a slice at every turn.

Go off of the grid. Buy some stuff from a local farmer, tax free, cash on the barrelhead and completely invisible to the government. take some money and put it in a jar someplace. As soon as the money goes off of the table the government can't see it any more and they don't get a cut. You get the idea? Go to a flea market to buy whatever it is that you're in the market for. When you're not paying sales tax, just as an example, you're starving the beast. If you don't have money in a savings account drawing interest and the government getting a cut of that interest that you earn, you're starving the beast.

Pingback| 4.12.10 @ 6:24PM

The Man With the Plan links to this page. Here’s an excerpt:

…that he had been bested, Obama replied, “We’ll have a longer debate on the budget numbers, all right?” and then proceeded to the next question. Read more at http://spectator.org/archives/2010/04/09/the-man-with-the-plan Related posts: As a Group, Bottom 70 Percent of Families Will Receive More Benefits Than They Pay in Taxes Under Obama Plan New Tax Foundation “Fiscal Incidence”…

Camron Barth| 4.13.10 @ 5:11AM

I’ve long thought of Wisconsin as being one of the most exciting states for Republicans. It voted for Gore, Kerry, and Obama but all the while seemingly yearned to vote Republican. We just have to earn it!

Annie Smith| 4.13.10 @ 9:49AM

I started paying attention to Ryan during the "summit" when Obama called the heath care bill going through congress "a prop". Checked out his website and his road map. I love it!

I am also intrigued by the fair tax. All those drug dealers and gangs having to pay taxes for their cars and expensive bling and all those illegal aliens having to pay taxes is darned near enough to sell me on it! But, under Obama, we will probably just be stuck buying their health insurance with OUR tax dollars instead.

Annie Smith| 4.13.10 @ 9:51AM

And to any lefty that wants to tell me how greedy I am:

“I have never understood why it is “greed” to want to keep the money you have earned but not greed to want to take somebody else's money.”
Thomas Sowell

Chris Pedersen| 4.14.10 @ 12:13AM

Just pass the Fair Tax Plan HR-25 and quit beating around the bush. Bring 13-15 trillion dollars of offshore monies back to the U.S. Economy in a matter of months. Untaxed! The Free Market will go wild. Lets make America the "Tax Haven Of The World" & April 15th "Just Another Spring Day eliminating 8 billion man hours[what's could this unproductive time be turned into every year] and 400 Billion dollars of compliance cost .

How many jobs would the private sector create with that amout of time and money devoted to that effort alone?

NO [V]alue [A]dded [T]ax!!Fair Tax Plan means No more tax on Capital nor Labor! Scrap the IRS !Read the darn books and talk to Congressman John Linder brfore he retires, see fairtax.org ! Call the principles at Americans For Fair Taxation granting their movement a "Fair & equitable public hearing!
They wrote the Plan with over 80 economists on board for passage!
Otherwise Congress via the present 67,000 + pages is the enigma and cancer of the FREE MARKET as well as American Freedom as a whole.
Liberty=Freedom..... Financial Freedom= True Liberty Let the "People" do what we do best!
The I.R.S= The Internal Racketeering Service of The United States of America Guns and all, the likes of La Cosa Nostra a/k/a The Mob. Juice Penalties and all.

Pingback| 4.14.10 @ 5:53AM

The Man With the Plan « Thomas Jefferson Club Blog links to this page. Here’s an excerpt:

…that total spending in your budget would grow at 3/100ths of 1 percent less than otherwise. I would simply submit that we could do more and start now.” Read the rest of the article here:   The Man With the Plan Tags: barack obama, Congressman Paul Ryan, health care reform This entry was posted on April 14, 2010 at 5:46 am and is filed under Congressman Paul Ryan, President Obama, health care reform. You…

Pingback| 4.14.10 @ 6:45PM

Paul Ryan: The Man With the Plan links to this page. Here’s an excerpt:

…among countries, the Greek collapse demonstrates what a fiscal crisis means in human terms. It also serves as a warning that the day of reckoning could come a lot sooner than we imagine. Read more at American Spectator Paul Ryan, Anti-Progressive With A Road Map For America’s Future If you enjoyed this post, make sure you subscribe to my RSS feed! Posted in Alternative Ideas, Big Government, Candidates,…

Pingback| 4.15.10 @ 3:20AM

The Man with the Plan | PowerTowneDistro.com links to this page. Here’s an excerpt:

Christine Hervieux - Avon representative April 15, 2010 The Man with the Plan Filed under: Politics — Lew @ 3:20 am More on Paul Ryan and the Roadmap from Phillip Klein. http://spectator.org/archives/2010/04/09/the-man-with-the-plan Share and Enjoy: Comments (0) No Comments » No comments yet. RSS feed for comments on this post. TrackBack URL Leave a comment Name (required) Mail (will not be published)…

Pingback| 4.16.10 @ 10:55PM

Week in review « Craig W. Wright links to this page. Here’s an excerpt:

…election of Iraqi president Iyad Allawi; and a leaked, two-year-old video showing the killing of civilians in New Baghdad raised fundamental questions about U.S. military policy.” more… The Man With the Plan by Philip Klein “There are arguments in favor of gradualism, and those on the right certainly shouldn’t live in a fantasy world detached from what is politically feasible. But the…

wangsir| 4.19.10 @ 5:07AM

Free Download Blu-ray to iPad Mac

irvnz| 4.26.10 @ 11:28PM

this begs the question why Republicans did not come up with this yrs ago when Bush was busy decimating the budget.. it does not take too much of a genius to conclude Republicans only act with a stance for Liberty & property rights when NOT in office; otherwise they are no different than Democrats

Dan| 7.10.10 @ 11:44AM

I love Paul Ryan! Romney-Ryan in 2012 are the team to bring America back! http://mittromneycentral.com/

Tom| 9.17.10 @ 4:42PM

I think that the Tea Party should place more emphasis now on replacing the Republican leadership in the House of Representatives. Lets give the young, energetic one like Ryan a shot at it. Boehner has not had a good idea in years, and does not appear to have a whole lot of energy. Time for new blood now, before they screw up the November election anymore than they have already done.

Louis Vttion handbags | 12.9.10 @ 2:07AM

Nick - Fascinating post. The space-time postulate is absolutely fascinating, though I admit I'm no Einstein and find it hard to get my brain around the concepts. I don't take the 6 days account literally so don't feel the need to search for a way to reconcile it with what we have come to know from science.

On evolution, my readings convince me of the soundness of the concept. Though I reject utterly his atheism, Richard Dawkins' books on evolution as a process are utterly persuasive. They're worth a read.

There are many leading scientists who are believers on a rational basis. One of my favorite is a fellow named Francis Collins, who headed the Human Genome Project. He has written two wonderful books, The Mind of God and The Language of God. In the first, he marvels at how the human brain developed the abstract mathematical reasoning capacity, which really serves no purpose --- except to understand the mathematical way God constructed the universe.
I believe that as God's creation unfolds, He provides humans the capacity and the means to understand more profoundly the wonder of what He has created. He is the author of the evolutionary process that made us into the creatures we have become.

endeavor | 5.7.11 @ 4:36AM

The ccie sp lab Exam is a demanding exam, requiring a high degree of advanced knowledge and preparation. For some certification candidates, the 1-Week Lab Experience ccie lab bootcamp is the perfect solution, while others require a bit more personalized instruction and practice time to master the material.

Zigtech | 5.18.11 @ 3:39AM

thanks

Oldefarte| 8.11.12 @ 12:40PM

The battle lines for November are now drawn. It will be Romney/Ryan against Obama/Biden. A polar opposite of choice, and no gray area. Hopefully the STUPIDS who allowed these domestic terrorists to capture this country in 2008 have now wised up. Bring it on, bring it on!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Kingofthenet| 8.11.12 @ 2:45PM

I like Paul Ryan's Budget, as a Devout Christian I already have Heaps of Faith, I believe a guy with NO Boat building experience built the largest wooden boat EVER made and filled it with EVERY animal on Earth, than it rained a minimum of 348,024 inches of rain for 40 days and nights, Do you REALLY think 'Trickle Down' would be a stretch for me?

Thom| 8.11.12 @ 4:34PM

The problem with “political plans” is the same as with military plans, they don’t survive contact with the enemy. Some sort of brawl usually follows and the one that makes the least mistakes or has the most numbers usually prevails.

Much of the talk about what to do about our fiscal woos concerns tweaking the systematic problems created by the root cause(s). Government types excel at complexity worship like this. The “root” of our fiscal problems can be traced to the 16th amendment. All of our long term fiscal problems stem from what that amendment has enabled on a wide scale. I’d read it before you respond to what I say next.

Before the 16th Amendment, the Federal government was constrained by a “proportionate” tax revenue system. It did not derive its income by taxing the unequal distributions of outcome as it does today. It received income as a “fee” based on the proportionate population of each of the “several states” thus the Rodney Kings of the world did not pay for what only the Warren Buffets of the world could afford. The “fee” or proportionate taxation reflected what the “market” would bear. Your tax portion was proportionate to your power at the polling station which is consistent with the concepts of a “republic”. Are we a “republic” today? No.

Thom| 8.11.12 @ 4:36PM

Today the Rodney Kings of this country vote for what only the Warren Buffets of the world can afford and the bulk of the tax burden is born by a tiny minority of voters who get the least from the Federal Government. The concept of one man, one vote went out the window with the 16th amendment also. Voting for something you have no skin in is fundamentally a corrupt immoral practice. The essence of the 13th amendment went out the window too with the Karl Marx inspired “progressive tax” system. Of course if you consider paying Federal taxes a “punishment” then it passes muster with the 13th amendment too. On top of this with the majority of the tax burden heaped upon the top 3% of “income” earners, the cost everything government does reflects their income levels not the median income level in our society. It all stems from what the 16th amendment unleashed and human nature took over after that.

Thom| 8.11.12 @ 4:37PM

You cannot fix this long term problem(s) without fixing the skewed tax burden problem along with the reward system every major government entitlement program has built in. Human nature if what it is. That’s why the Founders set up a proportionate tax system to fund the Federal government. It limited the Feds to what the average citizen could afford to pay and didn’t reward people with the fruits of other people’s labor for no cost to themselves. Any “plan” that avoids taking on the “root” problem is doomed to failure just because of human nature. Democracies always commit fiscal suicide eventually. That’s why the Founder formed a “republic” not a democracy. The differences aren’t subtle as complexity worshipers would have you believe.

Purp| 8.11.12 @ 8:24PM

You are incorrect. The only voters in 1781 were the wealthy landowners, not all men or women.
The Founders didn't set up a proportionate tax system at all. The Federal government existed on excise taxes, duties levied and such.
Once the United States instituted the progressive income system in 1913, this country took off toward the Superpower status it has today.
A strong central government was necessary to compete with the rest of the world. With our blessing of abundant natural resources and our people of entrepreneurial, risk taking, independent nature and hard work ethic, we have created the most exceptional country that ever existed.

Thom| 8.11.12 @ 9:45PM

You don't know what you are talking about.

Article I, Section 2, Clause 3:
Representatives and direct taxes shall be apportioned among the several States which may be included within this Union, according to their respective Numbers...[1]

Article I, Section 8, Clause 1:
The Congress shall have Power to lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States; but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States.

Article I, Section 9, Clause 4:
No Capitation, or other direct, Tax shall be laid, unless in proportion to the Census or Enumeration herein before directed to be taken.

Purp| 8.11.12 @ 10:28PM

The 16th Amendment changed Article I so that all income is taxable in the United States.
You should read it:
"The Congress shall have power to lay and collect taxes on incomes, from whatever source derived, without apportionment among the several states, and without regard to any census or enumeration."
An Amendment to the Constitution takes precedence over the body of the Constitution, as it is changed by the Amendment. That, pal, is Constitution 101. Were you absent that day?
*** YOU don't know what you're talking about, but it's okay, now you know.

Purp| 8.11.12 @ 8:18PM

The rich have always paid the most taxes for over 2000 years, from the Roman Empire through Charlemagne and Henry the VIII up to today. That has not changed.
What changed in this country was letting the poor keep more of their earnings which created the middle class and all our prosperity. With more money, they became millions of customers that could swamp whatever the rich could spend.

Thom| 8.11.12 @ 10:05PM

Under any tax system where an absolute flat rate is applied, all have an equal share in the burden according to their “income” by whatever standard you apply. Those with more will pay more than those with less of whatever it is that is being taxed. Be it property or “money” the “rich” always pay more per person than the poor. This is not what we have here. The “rich” as your Lord and Savior defines them pays the bulk of the tax burden and vast amounts beyond any concept of an equal share for effort. Even a flat tax will reward the Rodney Kings of this society but at least they have skin in the game equal to their efforts to support what they get. What we have today is 30% of adults pay nothing in taxes; nearly half of those that have to file a Federal tax return paying nothing and we are spending 35-40% of each Federal dollar out of borrowed money as far as the eye can see. What happens when that 3% parks their income producing activities and the government collapses because they are tired of being your “slave”? What then Comrade? Where do you think that trillion plus in lost revenue came from? The 3.3% unemployed above the nominal 5% baseline unemployment rate? Who do you think is lending the US Government money to keep it afloat when it does not involve foreign nationals? You still don’t know what you are talking about.

Purp| 8.11.12 @ 10:37PM

When you make 5 million dollars, how much do you need to live?
When you make $20, 000 dollars, how much do you need to live?
Jesus warned us about putting too much stock in money - so what's the beef rich people? You don't have enough to eat? No roof over your head? Can't pay the doctor?
That IS the case for many in our country that could be relieved by a higher tax on you.
When you figure that out, you'll understand why the rich must pay more than a flat rate. Add to that that multiple homes, larger homes, more cars, more security, more of almost everything else requires the rich to pay more, just to be fair.
On 0% taxes - did you know that 37 of the largest corporations in America paid ZERO tax last year? The rich often pay far less than the stated tax rate says. That's called the "effective tax rate", and it is the lowest it's been since before the Great Depression.
One HUGE reason we have such high deficits is the 15% of GDP we are paying in taxes. We have one of the lowest tax rates in the Industrialized world. Why? And, yet we have a defense budget greater than the top 10 other countries combined. 10x what China spends. Why?
Oh, and EVERYONE pays taxes. There is no one that makes or spends any money in this country that doesn't pay taxes - so stop lying about it.
Again - YOU DON"T KNOW WHAT YOU"RE TALKING ABOUT. It's just right wing mythology you are promoting, that is all.

AReadyRepub| 8.12.12 @ 12:05AM

You are brain dead nutz! 49.1 of the population do not pay income tax, government figures.We have the highest tax rates in the industrialized world and China's military budget is almost as much as ours. Taking from the successful and giving to the failures is socialism. Everyone must be eeeeequal. Take your rot to Cuba.

Purp| 8.12.12 @ 9:06AM

OMG you are stupid. China spends approx. 70 Billion/year on defense - we spend over 700 Billion/year. You got that wrong, pal.
Good God, man, why do you think Europe can pay for all their social programs - they have the highest tax rates, we aren't even close. (Federal tax is at 15% GDP, while spending is at 24% GDP - raise some taxes, cut some spending to bring the numbers to 19-21% of GDP and we'll be fine). Some European countries have 60% taxes - we aren't even anywhere near that number.
Maybe you should go back to school.
But, if you can prove your numbers, by all means, give us links to facts, not your right wing blow hole mythology.

Toinfinityandbeyond| 8.11.12 @ 7:49PM

The majority of welfare recipients are also white and have only one child.

On another note, 80% of known serial killers are White Racist Republicans.

AReadyRepub| 8.12.12 @ 12:06AM

La la la la la la.

Purp| 8.12.12 @ 9:06AM

too bad someone so dumb can vote. There should be a test for Republicans to vote.

Toinfinityandbeyond| 8.11.12 @ 7:50PM

Hey Repubs~

Pay your Taxes~

Don't be freeloaders~

Toinfinityandbeyond| 8.11.12 @ 7:50PM

Romney/Ryan = Vulture/Voucher

Toinfinityandbeyond| 8.11.12 @ 7:50PM

Ayn Rand said in the interview she scorns churches and the concept of god.

Does Paul Ryan and Repubs also believe to scorn churches and the concept of god like Ayn Rand?

What a loony Repubs~ lol Do you Jesus Freaks hate Ayn Rand now?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v....._embedded#!

AReadyRepub| 8.11.12 @ 11:57PM

We are not a democracy, we are a constitutional republic...constitution being an anethma to liberals. And stop the Obamaloney about tax cuts for the rich. The Bush tax cuts have been in place several years and we have had no new tax cuts since their inception. Pretty soon you guys will run out of dirty names to call us and then you'll have a real brain freeze!

Purp| 8.12.12 @ 9:09AM

Yes, the Bush Tax cuts were in place for 10 years and then extended - where are the jobs they were supposed to create? Hmmmm?
Since you don't know history, the Founders were liberals - radical even. They revolted against the conservative King, and instituted the fabulous Constitution - if only conservatives would follow the ENTIRE Constitution, not just the pieces they like.
I notice you never answer any question with facts - why is that?

Kingofthenet| 8.12.12 @ 3:42PM

The problem Conservatives have NOW is they have a weak grasp on reality, Let's say you have a 'plan' that manly benefits the Wealthy, fine so be it, but don't be so stupid as to ACTUALLY try and sell it to the middle class.Create TWO plans, the one your REALLY going to do, the one for the rich and a second plan that ONLY talks about helping the Middle Class.Than when you get elected drop the second plan.

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The Watergate Triangle

May 31, 2013 | Richard Wheeler

http://spectator.org/archives/2010/04/09/the-man-with-the-plan

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