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Another Perspective

Health Care Rebellion: Lessons From Martin Luther King

By on 3.23.10 @ 6:09AM

Adams cousins, Gandhi, King, Walesa and John Galt on overturning the healthcare tyranny. 

“When I took up my little sling and aimed it at Communism, I also hit at something else. What I hit was the force of that great Socialist revolution which in the name of liberalism, spasmodically, incompletely, somewhat formlessly, but always in the same direction, has been inching its ice-cap over the nation for two decades. I had no adequate idea of its extent, the depth of its penetration, or the fierce vindictiveness of its revolutionary temper.”
— Whittaker Chambers in Witness

“Our concern was not to put the bus company out of business, but to put justice in business.”
— Martin Luther King on the Montgomery Bus Boycott

“The road is cleared. We are going back to the world.”
— John Galt in Ayn Rand’s Atlas Shrugged

Enough is enough.

It’s time to put government tyranny out of business, and put health care justice in business.

So the tactics will now change.

First, the goal: Outright repeal, then start over. But repeal first and foremost.

That understood, it would be time to take a look at how this kind of thing has been done before. And what tools are available in the repeal fight.

To start, there could not be better role models here than America’s Martin Luther King, the Sons of Liberty (Sam and John Adams and crew), Poland’s Lech Walesa and India’s Gandhi.

And let’s not forget Ayn Rand’s fictional John Galt.

1. The Precedents: Fortunately, this is not the first time that Americans — and those outside America — have set out to undo an untenable status quo.»

• The Stamp Act and the Tea Tax, 1765 and 1773 —. The two were fought successfully by the Sons of Liberty, an underground group of patriots whose members and leaders included Samuel Adams, Paul Revere, Charles Warren, John Adams (Sam’s second cousin), John Hancock and, in Virginia, Patrick Henry. Both the Stamp Act, which required that specific printed materials in the American colonies be printed on stamped paper bearing an official revenue stamp, and the Tea Act, which taxed tea, were acts of the British Parliament. Incensed Americans, furious at the taxation without representation and the fact that neither Parliament much less the British King was listening to them, began to resist. The resistance, famously including the Boston Tea Party in which tea was dumped into Boston Harbor, was the precursor to the American Revolution.

But before there was the Revolution, there was the successful overturning of both the Stamp Act and the Tea Tax. How? Both were made essentially unenforceable through the passage of legislative resolutions from colonial legislatures, public demonstrations, and flat out resistance to paying the tax. Said the Sons of Liberty in 1773 of anyone involved trying to collect the tax,: such a collector was “an enemy to the liberties of America” and that “whoever shall transgress any of these resolutions, we will not deal with, or employ, or have any connection with him.” In Massachusetts, the Colonial governor Thomas Hutchinson even found angry American colonists protesting outside the governor’s mansion — an unheard of proposition in that day and age. Both taxes were finally repealed.

• The Montgomery Bus Boycott, 1955 — Begun in Montgomery, Alabama when Rosa Parks, a black seamstress with tired feet, refused to move to the back of a city bus (all buses — and much more — were segregated by race in accord with the 1896 Plessy v. Ferguson decision, a Supreme Court ruling that tried to override the post-Civil War constitutional amendments and civil rights laws). Led by a young Montgomery minister named Martin Luther King, Jr. the tactic was simple: elementary non-compliance by refusing to ride buses. Period. Black men, women and children were all asked to voluntarily comply to somehow use other transportation, including walking if necessary. They rallied and, inevitably, the bus company began to be starved of revenue. King was even arrested at one point, which only drew national attention. Finally, the courts stepped in and sided with Dr. King. The boycott ended, the buses were integrated, and the moral stake of the aborning Civil Rights movement was held high.

• The Salt March, 1930 — The British government had, not unlike its treatment of the American colonies with the Stamp Act and Tea Tax almost two centuries earlier, imposed a salt tax on its colony of India. Mohandas Gandhi, a British-educated Indian lawyer, had returned to his homeland determined to win Indian independence. He initiated a Salt March in 1930 — literally marching across India to the Indian Ocean. There, in full view of the newsreel cameras, he knelt at ocean’s edge and began collecting seawater, letting it evaporate and thus creating salt. Making salt was an illegal activity under the British Salt Tax. His actions captured the public imagination in India and massive civil disobedience set in, with millions making salt, making the Salt Tax virtually unenforceable. Eventually, the Salt March forced the British to recognize that they could not control India without the consent of the Indians — which they did not have. India won its independence in 1948.

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About the Author

Jeffrey Lord is a former Reagan White House political director and author. He writes from Pennsylvania at jlpa1@aol.com.

Letter to the Editor View all comments (239) |

Brian Mc| 3.23.10 @ 7:19AM

Beautiful

I finally have re-found my "HOPE" and look forward to doing what I can to induce "CHANGE".

Let us move in a direction that will entrust our liberties and ensure us a place amongst the morally courageous that for generations to come, our offspring will glance at, fondly, when they review history.

Jon B| 3.24.10 @ 1:57PM

The Author completely ignores the biggest problem: Business interest controlling Government, not the other way around.

The physical act of the Tea Party occurred because Britain under priced local merchants by 33%, enticed by the political act of opposing British control of colonial Governors.

By ignoring the main problem, this article does a disservice to it's readers and seeks to mislead you.

Nick| 3.24.10 @ 4:05PM

Pay no attention to Jon B, folks.

He peddles lies and marxist propaganda. Oops! Redundant.

Like the lie that President Reagan gave the Soviets $425 billion.

After 3 days of trying to belittle those of us who called him out on his lie, he finally admitted his fabrication.

Although, he then claimed it was a mistake That it was actually $425 million, but he offered no source. Just his deeply flawed memories.

He is not worthy of your time.

Leslie Katenmeier| 3.29.10 @ 2:57PM

Lets take back our vote from these exploitive , useless politicians and special interest lobbies cut them completely out of the process , and set up an American idol style " peoples " vote on the best online submissions " al la carte "
We can start by putting up a webpage with all issues related to problems with our system including tort reform-
arbitration should replace litigation for one thing-
take and post the best ideas and soloutions with fiscal responsibility and alleviation of financial burdens and quality care for everyone as a goal. Timeline submissions.
Then have two week period where voting can happen.
Have the winning reforms put together a few different ways then hold a special election excluding lobbies. One vote per person at a polling place

Ned| 3.23.10 @ 7:19AM

We should also look at the bright side. At least when the Democrats are taking over health care, they are not aiding our enemies and hoping for the defeat of our country in war.

Tom| 3.23.10 @ 8:07AM

Of course they are helping our enemies. Bankrupting the country weakens us. Breeding more dependency weaknes us. Stifling innovation weakens us.

Barb| 3.23.10 @ 8:55AM

Tom,

Your absolutely on. That is the goal and purpose of the Obama presidency........to weaken, to stifle, to confuse, create chaos and then we all accept. Never, never, will I accept tyranny. The blantant corruption is beyond belief. Obama did this in Chicago, and now along with his thugs, have brought it to the nation. Those who voted for him deserve whatever happens. I don't, I did not vote for this social radical communist who thinks it's all about him! Stand up and be heard America, it is your country and your FREEDOMS! Be vigilant of what is going on in Washington. The newspapers and the media will never tell the citizens , they are Obama followers.

Alan Brooks| 3.23.10 @ 9:27AM

"Of course they are helping our enemies."

Don't you think Ned was being sarcastic, Barb?

Howard| 3.23.10 @ 8:10AM

Unfortunately my friend, I must disagree. If you look at the Social Welfare states in Europe, the first thing to go is defense. The entitlements are always sacrosanct. Thus Obama, Pelosi, and Reid, will proclaim victory and reduce our defense and our commitments.

J'| 3.24.10 @ 2:22PM

Are you serious??!!!! This jackass in the white house is on the exact road to destroy this country! This is just the first step. Go back and read the real history of the early 20th century. We've seen this movie before and it doesn't turn out well for the people.

Gerald Stephens| 3.23.10 @ 7:33AM

'Loosing a battle makes one really enthusiastic about winning the war'. Attributed to George Washington just before Trenton...I think!

Gerald Stephens
Hartford, CT

Melvin| 3.23.10 @ 7:38AM

Mr. Lord, you have never shown more brightly than you have today.
But the Conservatives must also dual track this revolt. It is one thing to get the horrid Health Care Law repealed, but then it is another thing to replace it with a heal Care that does work for this Country.
Conservatives should have a double bladed approach with this. The repeal and submit to the American People a well thought out, and affordable health care plan in complete openness and honesty, all being done at the same time.
If we prevail on this, the first word out of the public is, "Now what?"
That is why it is vitally and tactically important to have a health care plan already in the works to submit to the public for review.
The producers of this Country realize that there is not a free lunch, but we don't want to be taken advantage of either by special interests and lobbyists.

John Navratil| 3.23.10 @ 9:22AM

I have a plan that works. It's called "fee for service". There is no need to insure well-baby care, routine physicals, vaccinations, or visits for a chest cold. Insure the unexpected and most people will never need to deal with an insurance company. But you cannot buy that insurance any more. It comes bundled with all sorts of crap the politicians have proclaimed that we need. That's why it is so expensive.

crookedwren| 3.23.10 @ 10:16AM

Thank you, John, for trying to insert a little common sense. In the "old days," we had major medical insurance. Other than that, you paid for an office visit and less expensive treatments. Sometimes a physician who knew you well would permit you to make time payments so that you could afford something that cost more than a regular doctor visit.

It was practical.

And medical costs weren't skyrocketing.

Of course, we weren't covering how many illegal aliens in emergency rooms, were we. Nor were the poor visiting emergency rooms. They were going to the doctor's office.

There were outstanding clinics and hospitals. I was born with some severe medical problems. Variety Children's Hospital cared for me from birth through the age of 18. Doctor's offered their time and services. I had one minor exploratory and one real surgery. My parents didn't have much money, and they only paid a small fee based on their income. The Hospital was supported by generous fund raising (by those marvelous Shriners and such, you remember those men in funny hats who drove funny cars in parades) NOT BY GOVERNMENT FIAT. Yes, there were long waits in the waiting room, but those people were good as gold to me.

We worked through things in a truly compassionate way -- unlike this so-called "altruistic" Administration and corrupt Dems. This Bill isn't about lowering the costs of health care.

Scott| 3.23.10 @ 6:39PM

Uhh...not me. I have an HSA and true "insurance". I've done the research, and the HSA with a HDHP is still allowed under the plan, it only needs to meet the minimum requirements under ObamaCare (70% actuarial value).

The plans you are talking about are generally employer based plans that have originated because HC can be provided tax free to employees, so employers for decades loaded it up with every possible coverage level. Who doesn't want tax free benefits?

John Navratil| 3.23.10 @ 11:26PM

Please elucidate!

As a private purchaser of insurance since 1980, cancelled for a child's pre-existing condition (a chest cold) ten years ago, I keen to hear how I can purchase a "major medical" (I presume that is what HDHP means) policy without a ridiculously low ($30k) limit.

I don't need Viagra or unlimited Ob-Gyn or Psych. Just the things that will break the bank.

I'm all ears!

Scott| 3.24.10 @ 5:11PM

Well i guess that all depends upon what state you are in. I only have a single policy, not a family, so its not a good comparision. But my policy, with a $3k deductible, 20% copay before deductible, runs me $130/mo. Then i contribute to an HSA on top of that. No health problems though.

Victor Jay| 3.23.10 @ 7:57AM

I think we need to mount a civil disobedience campaign attacking the Federal government where it hurts the most – in the pocketbook.

We need to organize a conscience campaign where we refuse to allow our monies to go to abortion; justifying our stand morally. The fundamental truth is that abortion is murder and we can not let it stand.

Just like during the days of The Stamp Act, we can have legislative resolutions, public demonstrations, and flat out refusal to pay for murder.

Reasonsjester | 3.23.10 @ 8:03PM

A tax revolt won't work because we are on a fiat currency system, in other words, money is what the government says it is. The government can print as little or as much as possible. Relatedly, inflation is a key part of the Fabian socialist plan to break the back of the capitalist system through devaluation of the currency. Simultaneously, the Fabian socialists want us to lower production (see the numerous environmental regulations, including Cap-and-Trade), and would only precipitate the crisis they seek to bring about their total control of the government and the American people.

Reasonsjester | 3.23.10 @ 8:05PM

I miswrote, instead: "The government can print as little or as much as those in power desire."

Howard| 3.23.10 @ 8:06AM

While I agree with Mr. Lord totally, I believe the seeds of victory are ordained if we stay together and focused. The fiscal calamity about to occur is as certain as the Chernobyl reactor's failure was a microcosm of The Soviet Union. The total malpractice committed by the US Government will result in either Vastly higher taxes, inflation, or default. Any of these events will be a game changer. The result will be a new America. We must move this new country into a small government, personal freedom, free market country. The bloated putrid country that Obama, Reid, and Pelosi manage will be reborn.

COnservative Bob| 3.23.10 @ 2:13PM

Why stop at not paying the increase in taxes? If you want to proclaim displeasure with an out of control government why take a larger bite…
If you work for a company go to your HR department today ask for a W-4 form and increase your dependants to 10 or 12. This should bring your income tax withholding to 0 on your next paycheck.
If you pay estimated tax adjust your contributions according to where you think the economy is heading.
A 50-60% drop in tax receipts will send a very clear message.
Begin an immediate campaign in your state for an Article V convention and amend the constitution.

Tim| 3.23.10 @ 8:08AM

We.Tea Party Rebels have moved into escalating rebellion.
This Socialist Health Scam is Economic Treason .
We have a Freeman's obligation to join The Resistance Movement.
Our Freedom Was Never Free !

JimH| 3.23.10 @ 8:23AM

Resistance tctics used by King and Ghandi requires that your opponent lacks the political will to be truly ruthless. Under this administration the question is how far will the various police and military forces obey him. I have hopes that ultimitelythe military will remain loyal to the constitution. I have my doubts as to various posice agencies such as the FBI and ATF. All volunteers in aiding the government in repression (IRS agents for example) should be treated as social pariahs.

John Navratil| 3.23.10 @ 9:25AM

Excellent point. If the British had just run their trains over Ghandi, things would certainly been different (I didn't say better) and Ghandi would have been dead.

Anthony| 3.23.10 @ 11:29AM

JimH, You raise an interesting point. I submit that the British were ruthless, as that famous massacre, the name of which I've forgotten, demonstrated. Ghandi was brilliant in exploiting the escalating frustration of the British overlords.
Same with the use of fire hoses in the '60s during the Civil Rights protests. In both instances, the moral superiority of the protestors was undeniable, and the media was primarily responsible for the public's sympathy for the protestors. The media were the moral arbiters of the day.
The dynamics we face are different, the world is upside down, with a MSM in sympathy with the leftist oppressors. We are deemed to be unworthy of respect for our protests, our cause is impuned and ridiculed by the intellectual elites who have aligned themselves with the left's destruction of our capitalistic society. We will not only not enjoy the benefit of the moral high ground our cause deserves, but in fact, the media will ratchet it up against us,which is why I believe our civil disobedience will ultimately result in civil war.
There will be no pressure valve or moral arbiter to adjudicate between the two sides. The Left thinks itself equally, if not more, superior to us, and has the backing of the new"establishment".
I suppose it was and is inevitable, two forces on a collision course that has been decades in the makin; last man standing will be deemed to be morally superior.

Chalkdust| 3.24.10 @ 6:29AM

For starters, the local police will be the tip of the spear backed up by The Homeland Security Force which is getting scarier by the day.

elainej| 3.23.10 @ 8:17AM

This article (and others) give me hope. I have only heard/read grumbling and disgust since this thing was passed Sunday night. Also, thanks for the including resource sites.

The Bible says we are to give to Caesar what is Caesar's and to God what is God's. This is what our family has always done. We are to give and support the government--as long as it does not go against God's word/law. This bill is in defiance of God's will--abortion for one.
If, there is any way I can help defeat this I will and I think there will be plenty of other people. I used to think it was terrible that people would do 'under the table' deals. Here I was obeying the law, paying my taxes. No more.

As long as obama is in office and all those democrats--I will do all I can to defy them.

WE THE PEOPLE!!!

chuck| 3.23.10 @ 10:28PM

Absolutely! I had an accountant once who told me you take every single deduction, every nuance in the law to pay the least amount possible in taxes, because the IRS will do everything in their power to get you to pay the most. It was only fair.

Well now they broke all the rules, trashed the constitution, and trampled on own rights, given by God. The gloves come off. Everything possible is under the table now. And I will gladly be the first to go to jail for not buying health insurance.

Roy| 3.24.10 @ 12:19PM

elainej, I am all for rendering unto Caesar that which is Caesar's. However, one thing we must not forget is that we live in a Democratic Republic -- not an Oligarchy or Dictatorship. This means something very important and significant, which unfortunately no one ever seems to bring up: in America, Caesar = We The People.

Roger| 3.23.10 @ 8:22AM

Failing to support their game, or gambit seems to already be underway, look at what has happened to the formerly General Motors Corporation since it was recast as Guv'mint Motors and former investors were told by this administration to sit down and shut up while they took it over without protecting their interests. More to come no doubt, thank you Mr. Lord.

Ken (Old Texican)| 3.23.10 @ 8:26AM

Mr. Lord, Splendid beginning!
I have saved this one in my permanent documents file.
Ken

PolishKnight| 3.23.10 @ 8:50AM

For the record, Rosa Parks wasn't a mere "seamstress". According to Wikipedia, she was a secretary for the NAACP and made a calculated legal decision to stage the challenge at that moment. A black man had tried a previous act of civil disobedience earlier and was beaten up by a mob and forgotten. It's important to put this into perspective so we don't over-romanticize history. Reverend Doctor Martin Luther King, Jr. had the backing of the religious left and northeastern communists. Great social movements usually had a lot of help rather than mere moral mandates and personal courage. I wish that wasn't the case.

douglas| 3.23.10 @ 4:25PM

Finally someone who knows there history. But it was a good try to put in an American minority. The author was simply trying to make this seem as though it is not simply a white middle class struggle, (which it mostly is). Not that there is anything wrong with that at all. Simply have the guts to admit it and deal with it from that prospective. There is no need to patronize any group.

macon georgia| 3.23.10 @ 9:13AM

Obama and company are like the Borg in Star Trek telling us "Resistance is futile". Resistance is never futile in defense of liberty! It is possible to fight as Reagan said in defense of it.

Deborah D | 3.23.10 @ 9:37AM

Bless you, Mr. Lord. I am a firm believer in civil disobedience to a tyrannical government. It's time the government fears the people instead of the people fearing their government to paraphrase Jefferson.

Once they start collecting the taxes -- I assume they will confiscate them from our paychecks, correct? IRS and all... How do we fight that? Can we change the number of dependents to have less withheld? What's the best way around that?

SCM| 3.23.10 @ 1:02PM

I've been thinking that everyone opposed to Obamacare should alter their witholding exemptions so that no money is taken out for taxes. If 50million workers did thisfor a year, it would sure put a kink in the fed's cash flow. It's probably "illegal", but then, what type of civil disobedience isn't?

ncgma| 3.23.10 @ 1:51PM

Mark "Exempt" on your withholding form. Delay filing any taxes until April 15th. Refuse to show proof of obamacare. Refuse to pay the fine because it is not a legimate law. Let it be heard in the courts. Some of the tax increases will come by way medicare tax increases and that cannot be avoided that I know of.

Nick| 3.23.10 @ 9:54AM

Mr. Lord,

One correction.

Rosa Parks was not told to "get to the back of the bus." This is a common mistake made by the media when telling this story over the years.

Mrs. Parks, along with 3 other blacks, were ordered by the bus driver to give up their seats for whites who had just boarded. She was already in the "Negroe" section of the bus.

xg| 3.23.10 @ 10:04AM

This are nice words but 16,500 armed IRS agents will do violence to you. The left writes laws and laws are enforced at the point of a gun. Tax disobedience is completely impossible. Perhaps opting out of the financial system in small ways makes sense. Since none of us make any money on our savings, then it might be time to just take the cash out and put it in a jar in the back yard. This can have a very quick effect on both the corporate socialists in Wall Street and the tax base, since the amount of saved money would be unknown.

Howard| 3.23.10 @ 1:02PM

You are correct if only a handful of people protest. The system is designed to neuter a few protesters. It's only when the vast majority work in unison that the war will be over without a single shot fired.

ncgma| 3.23.10 @ 1:56PM

xg,
"This are nice words but 16,500 armed IRS agents will do violence to you. "

They are also Americans....and if you behave in a non-threatening but civil-disobedient manner...it is hard to believe that any real violence will be done to a fellow American.

Blackwatch| 3.23.10 @ 2:08PM

I agree. why be violent. It's not time for that.

Let's start with a boycott of the Oprah show's advertisers, the advertisers on the MSM, and maybe some street protests in front of each congressperson's district office and/or in front of their home. non-violent of course.

ncgma| 3.23.10 @ 2:43PM

Excellent idea. Maybe a donkey pinata filled with little plastic rats? A little symbolism can go a long way.

Susan| 3.24.10 @ 6:12AM

Excellent Ideas!! Also, GE is one of Obamas biggest supporters - it's CEO is one of Obamas financial advisors. Boycott all GE products, Get rid of your cable, satellite, etc...; GE owns 49% of Comcast and numerous paid-for channels. Look up GE companies in Wikipedia; Let's create a list of companies to boycott - I'm all in. I have already cancelled my Satellite and gone to antenna. Stop buying any Liberal newspapers, don't watch MSM news and boycott their advertisers - Send the MSM e-mails of what you're doing and why. ETC...

xcon| 3.25.10 @ 9:48AM

Technically you are right.
They only jail you.
The violence comes from that point forward.
I don't believe for a second that they don't want to hurt you in any way possible.

Bill Speers| 3.23.10 @ 10:08AM

Is any group contemplating a lawsuit in Obamacare using the theory that requiring the purchase of health insurance constitutes involuntary servitude, a violation of the 13th Amendment?

Tim| 3.23.10 @ 10:22AM

Meanwhile what is the Left's agenda for the rest of 2010? "Wait to get trampled" surely isn't the plan.
Recruit 20 million illegal aliens ( "disenfranchised voters) for November.
Put ACORN back on it's feet in a new skin.
Stimulus funds to back the putsch.
Big media campaign to marginalize opposition as dangerous, violent and crazy.
What else?

ncgma| 3.23.10 @ 2:04PM

That's why it is so important to stay informed and focused. Read through this article again and check out the suggested links. Get locally involved and stay commited. Welcome to the Resistance!

Matt Morehouse| 3.23.10 @ 10:40AM

Give me one example of civil disobedience that would have any chance of success.

Ken (Old Texican)| 3.23.10 @ 11:19AM

Matt,
With the greatest respect, NOW is not the time to open that particular discussion.

Perhaps around November 10th is the time to open that discussion.

Some here fear a "rigged" or "obstructed" election.

I am going to be warning every leftist...constantly, that such would surely "tear the blanket".

The real question in my own mind, is whether the American people can get their finger out, and vote with us.
You know, whether for political survival, or for principle...or some combination...I am very proud our Republican Critters stood up and said "Hell No".
Thoughts?

ncgma| 3.23.10 @ 2:06PM

I too am very proud of our Republican Critters as you call them, and will be supporting them in anyway I can, and working to defeat those who voted for it. Thank you for your thoughtful postings.

Bill| 3.23.10 @ 10:47AM

Seems to me the fastest way to bring attention to the this situation is for the medical profession to refuse to participate. Mayo clinic in Az has already stated that they will not accept medicare. Doctors can refuse to take government insurance. We can pay in cash and in installments. Serious medical conditions must be aided by charitable organizations such as churches. If we can all pull together and aid places like Haiti and other area that have natural disasters we can raise the needed money to take care of our own sick. It will not take long for this to shut down the health care folly.
Also enter more into the cash society. Pay no taxes. Selective shut down of various sectors of the economy for a few days will also help starve the tax coffers. This is a different kind of war and we must win this for our children and those who come after them.

Melvin| 3.23.10 @ 11:03AM

First thing we need to do is unify, and speak with a single cohesive message.
Right now we are fragmented and to a certain extent arguing amongst ourselves, but that is improving.
This isn't going to happen tomorrow, it will be painful times, and it will be mean knock down bar fight Chicago style.
But, if we want to get this damn monkey off our backs it is something we have to do.

Deborah D | 3.23.10 @ 11:30AM

You know, Bill, I was thinking the same thing...some kind of a doctors' strike might get some attention. Don't know what form that would have to take. I'm not a doctor, but let's hope they band together to do something to save themselves.

Al Adab| 3.23.10 @ 3:36PM

Deborah,
My Dr. who already refuses to bill medicare will simply close his doors rather than comply. He has told me as much. It simply cannot be that he is alone in this position.

Whether it might make a difference if Drs. were to act in concert I don't know but the effect would be something to behold.

Remember though, whatever actions all of us may take individually or collectivly, the revolution won't be on the front page. Nonetheless, non-compliance seems the best position to take. My wife and I are already agreed on that. We will not submit.

mujalan| 3.23.10 @ 2:23PM

Bill,
I share a lot of the same concerns you have mentioned here. However, in regard to your statement, "Also enter more into the cash society. Pay no taxes..." I suffered a few chills. Not that you are suggesting such but I wouldn't want anyone to misunderstand and end up in Leavenworth for tax evasion. That would be illegal and dangerous. I wouldn't want to advocate any such thing. I deal with the IRS on a regular basis and believe me they are not to be trifled with. They have more ways than you could imagine for locating tax evasion.

danfromatlanta| 3.23.10 @ 4:08PM

Bill, great idea, but if the obamageddon is successful, we will not be able to pay for our own healthcare, cash or otherwise, because we will all be unemployed. The obamageddon is already trying to shut down every sector of the economy, with no help from us. I have faith in God, that we will make it through this, but I think it will be wise for us to all prepare to defend ourselves.

RonP123| 3.23.10 @ 11:01AM

Your examples are inspiring but I fear you discount the lengths to which those who hold the constitution dear must go. We will win, but what then? How to ensure no more back sliding - which is more than just a promise on paper to repeal the bill - no my dear friends we must outlaw certain political beliefs/movements as dangerous to the republic. sorry - i think i just said what was on everyone's mind. in effect it will be de-nazifying the body politic. In a democratic republic sometimes you have to be intolerant in order to retain tolerance.

Melvin| 3.23.10 @ 11:08AM

As odd as this sounds, we can't depend on government to force a repeal.
The Republican leadership can file all the repeals it wants but if they don't have the weight of the Americans citizenry who despise big government and this health care law, then their repeal is only a paper tiger.
As much as I loath the Republican leadership, we do need them, because we can't do this by ourselves, nor can the Republican leadership do it by themselves.
We have to join together to fight this epic war.

ncgma| 3.23.10 @ 2:09PM

True, true. Tea Party supporters pride themselves on being very independent, but we will all need to join forces to get this current crowd out of Washington. There will be disagreements, but hopefully, we can work through those.

Bob Miller| 3.23.10 @ 11:51AM

I remind everyone that we mainly pay our income taxes through payroll withholding. We don't see the withheld money.

Also, I believe that the operation of the health care bill includes direct seizure of our money by the government for failure to have an individual health plan (somebody correct me if I missed something here). This means that the government does not have to say "pretty please" or even threaten us before taking our money.

So our ability to hold back tax payments while the new health care system is still in force looks pretty nil.

If we can't fix the government through elections and court action, the other stuff looks basically useless. Demonstrating and all the rest will have value only if it increases the vote against Obama and his supporters or raises campaign money for the right candidates.

Melvin| 3.23.10 @ 11:56AM

Like I said, no one said this was going to be easy. Americans by nature have always been ingenious in getting around government induced road blocks.
We'll figure out a way, but we must be unified, health care providers, hospitals, and others can chose and it will be with a certain amount of pain not to willingly participate in this health charade.
Someone said a long time ago. Freedom doesn't always come without a cost.

Bob Miller| 3.23.10 @ 12:20PM

"Americans by nature have always been ingenious in getting around government induced road blocks."

Some recent examples, please.

Melvin| 3.23.10 @ 12:45PM

English Tyranny, Prohibition of Alcohol, avoiding taxes, fees by making smart purchases where taxes, fees are not as heavy, radar detectors, CB radios to warn each other of speed traps on National Highways, and the list is as varied as ones imagination.
This non-conformance is not advertised, by nature of illegality.
For the most part this operates in the underground economy which out of necessity isn't broadcast.
A simple act of driving 1mph over the speed limit, or not putting on your seat belt is an act of non-conformance with the law.

Tim| 3.23.10 @ 11:55AM

Put in a more simplistic way:

"Avatar" by a very wide and historic margin was and is the 2009 and 2010 movie choice of the "people."

Yet, the" Academy Members" chose something else as their best picture.

Moral of the Story...

When you put this to the vote of the people in November they should correct the problem provided they change in a massive way the power structure in DC and in States across the country.

JimP| 3.23.10 @ 12:14PM

Way to go, Jeff. Great column, and thanks for the examples and resources mentioned. Also keep writing columns of this nature. We need them. I've read way too many defeatest sounding columns and comments since Sunday. The battle is only over if you/we give up conservatives. If you are feeling defeated and pessimistic, then find someone like Jeff, hang with them, and don't take counsel of your fears. Just quietly follow them because soon you'll start to see there is hope.

Bruce| 3.23.10 @ 12:20PM

In the coming battle, watch for the "race card" to be played frequently. We must be prepared with strategies and tactics to trump it.

Mike| 3.23.10 @ 12:25PM

This article is pathetic. Conservatives should not be taking lessons from a Communist, racist liberal like Martin Luther King Jr.

Ken (Old Texican)| 3.23.10 @ 1:56PM

Mike,
Thank you for your turd thrown in our punchbowl here.
I could care less what Dr. King's politics were. He has passed on to God's judgement.
I have his speech excerpt here on my study wall.
You know... the "I Have a Dream" speech where he talked about his dream about character meaning stuff instead of skin color.

He paid for his actions with his life. That is called Christian courage in my book.
You are on my scroll list.

Mike| 3.23.10 @ 2:17PM

Ken, learn your history. MLK was an anti-American communist, and a black nationalist RACIST who hated white Americans.

Why don't you just start praising Malcolm X or LBJ? Basically the same thing - people who didn't want to make America better, they wanted to make America a different nation than what it is - a Christian country founded on principles of freedom.

Tim| 3.23.10 @ 2:24PM

Thank you Mike for exposing Texas as the pinko fellow traveler he is.

Ken (Old Texican)| 3.23.10 @ 4:33PM

Hi. You must be the "un-funny Tim".

You twerps are not a pimple on my arse regarding fighting for liberty and American values.

You guys are what I have always called "barroom liberals".
None of you have ever put your butt on the line for freedom.
I have. I got the buttons and zippers to prove it.

You negro haters just make me tired. I do take a great deal of pleasure, laughing at your ABSOLUTE lies.
Dr. King ALWAYS stood for integration, and as a Christian, reached our (white) hearts.
He hated.....hate.

You guys cannot fool me, or any other rational person here. I was there. You twerps were not.

I am content, now. I am going to link ALL of Doctor King's thought in my next post. If anyone wants to argue...debate...AFTER reading his words, then we can talk like grown-ups....heh, you NAZI scumbags.

Ken (Old Texican)| 3.23.10 @ 4:38PM

Here, folks is a link to Dr. King's letter from jail.
Please correct me if I am wrong.....but I cannot find any communist or HATE here.
(Well...hate for the Sin...but love for the Sinners).

You can link to all of his speeches from this site if you want.
http://www.mlkonline.net/jail.html

Tim| 3.24.10 @ 8:56AM

Hey! I was sticking up for you! Nobody gets sarcasm....

ncgma| 3.23.10 @ 2:29PM

Well said.

Jim Hlavac | 3.23.10 @ 12:27PM

Several things to push the point:
1) Withdraw all funds from the big banks. Move it all to small, in-state institutions. The big ten should go under.
2) Boycott GM & Chrysler, put them out of business.
3) Stop the newspaper. Don't buy it. Put them out of their misery.
4) Quit AARP. They must go.
5) Boycott any companies that advertise on the legacy media -- let it be known -- if they support the fawning press, no more sales.
That's just five simple ones. There are so many more to consider.
The socialists will not rest. They are zombies. The opposition must not rest, we have nothing to lose but the chains they are fashioning for us.

Blackwatch| 3.23.10 @ 2:20PM

6) boycott GE
7) boycott hollywood movies--or atleast don't pay them $10 for a ticket at your local multiplex. use netflix or redbox--only a $1. do not buy movies either.

Jayhawk| 3.23.10 @ 2:39PM

The only movies I'm paying money to see from here on out are John Voight movies. He's the only half-decent actor in Hollywood anyway.

ncgma| 3.23.10 @ 2:35PM

A good alternative to AARP is the ASA- American Seniors Association, formed for conservatives.

TheresaAK| 3.23.10 @ 1:23PM

This letter is reposted from another blog site but I thought it appropriate for this thread. This letter has passed the Snopes test.

Dear President Obama,

My name is Harold Estes, approaching 95 on December 13 of this year. People
meeting me for the first time don't believe my age because I remain wrinkle
free and pretty much mentally alert.

I enlisted in the U.S. Navy in 1934 and served proudly before, during and after WW II retiring as
a Master Chief Bos'n Mate. Now I live in a "rest home" located on the western
end of Pearl Harbor , allowing me to keep alive the memories of 23 years of
service to my country.

One of the benefits of my age, perhaps the only one, is to speak my mind, blunt and
direct even to the head man.

So here goes.

I am amazed, angry and determined not to see my country die before I do, but you seem
hell bent not to grant me that wish.

I can't figure out what country you are the president of.

You fly around the world telling our friends and enemies despicable lies
like:

" We're no longer a Christian nation"

" America is arrogant" - (Your wife even

announced to the world," America is mean-

spirited. " Please tell her to try preaching

that nonsense to 23 generations of our

war dead buried all over the globe who

died for no other reason than to free a

whole lot of strangers from tyranny and

hopelessness.)

I'd say shame on the both of you, but I don't think you like America, nor do I see an
ounce of gratefulness in anything you do, for the obvious gifts this country has
given you. To be without shame or gratefulness is a dangerous thing for a man
sitting in the White House.

After 9/11 you said," America hasn't lived up to her ideals."

Which ones did you mean? Was it the notion of personal liberty that 11,000 farmers and
shopkeepers died for to win independence from the British? Or maybe the ideal
that no man should be a slave to another man, that 500,000 men died for in the
Civil War? I hope you didn't mean the ideal 470,000 fathers, brothers,
husbands, and a lot of fellas I knew personally died for in WWII, because we
felt real strongly about not letting any nation push us around, because we stand
for freedom.

I don't think you mean the ideal that says equality is better than discrimination. You
know the one that a whole lot of white people understood when they helped to get
you elected.

Take a little advice from a very old geezer, young man.

Shape up and start acting like an American. If you don't, I'll do what I can to see you
get shipped out of that fancy rental on Pennsylvania Avenue . You were elected
to lead not to bow, apologize and kiss the hands of murderers and corrupt
leaders who still treat their people like slaves.

And just who do you think you are telling the American people not to jump to conclusions
and condemn that Muslim major who killed 13 of his fellow soldiers and wounded
dozens more. You mean you don't want us to do what you did when that white cop
used force to subdue that black college professor in Massachusetts , who was
putting up a fight? You don't mind
offending the police calling them stupid but you don't want us to offend Muslim
fanatics by calling them what they are, terrorists.

One more thing. I realize you never served in the military and never had to defend your
country with your life, but you're the Commander-in-Chief now, son. Do your
job. When your battle-hardened field General asks you for 40,000 more troops to
complete the mission, give them to him. But if you're not in this fight to win,
then get out. The life of one American soldier is not worth the best political
strategy you're thinking of.

You could be our greatest president because you face the greatest challenge ever
presented to any president.

You're not going to restore American greatness by bringing back our bloated economy.
That's not our greatest threat. Losing the heart and soul of who we are as
Americans is our big fight now.

And I sure as hell don't want to think my president is the enemy in this final
battle.

Sincerely,

Harold B. Estes

Alan| 3.23.10 @ 2:14PM

Thank you Theresa (and Harold). Let's get this Muslim APE out of office in 2012!

Ken (Old Texican)| 3.23.10 @ 1:35PM

Theresa, Thank You for that.

mujalan| 3.23.10 @ 1:59PM

It may well be that what the Democrats have in fact done is to light a fire which they will not be able to put out. I pray that this wholesale abuse of power will trigger a substantial resetting back to the Constitution in this Country. This so-called health care bill is only one segment of the decades long dismantlement of our liberties that has occurred.

ncgma| 3.23.10 @ 2:01PM

This is the best editorial/plan of action that I have read thus far. Stay loud, stay angry, stay firm in your beliefs...November is a long time away. Find out where your local democratic office is, and when they hold their meetings. Protest during the meetings and any other events they host. This is a commitment for the next seven months...but the results will be for a lifetime, our children and grandchildren's lifetimes. Thank you so much for this article.

RAMIII| 3.23.10 @ 2:04PM

"What each of these movements has in common is basic noncompliance with the law."

Isn't bloodshed also a common denominator of these movements. Be ready people -- it's the have nots against the haves.

People often tend to fight harder for what they can get for free rather than fight for what they earned through hard work.

You ask why? Because those who worked hard for what they have earned and obtained don't have the time nor the energy to fight to resist the looters, UNLESS they can come up with something that carries greater force.

The wicked will pass away like chaff, the righteous will be established forever. There will be a final reckoning for those who think they can escape justice.

JimP| 3.23.10 @ 3:13PM

"People often tend to fight harder for what they can get for free rather than fight for what they earned through hard work. "

Ridiculous statement. You've obviously never worked hard for something or you wouldn't say that. Freeloaders are by definition cowards and lazy. They WILL try to gang up on people and on effete conservatives who've never known adversity this might work. Most of those kinds of conservatives are RINO's and if you are a RINO, well you're already half way to being a freeloader already. They freeload thru corporate cronyism.

I think we have been invaded by poseurs from the left. I can't believe the negativety, defeatism and just pure BS coming from some of the 'conservatives' posting comments on this thread.

RAMIII| 3.23.10 @ 6:21PM

It is apparent to me that I did not communicate very well in my post.

What I meant is that those who get their freebee handouts from the nanny govmt have all kinds of time to show up for staged events, whereas the hard working Americans (i.e. the Middle Class) trying to keep their heads above water don't have the time to attend all these events that are designed to get our tax dollars for re-distribution to the "looters".

I did NOT say that we never have the energy to fight for what is rightfully ours.

As to the defeatism note: I personnally believe it is the Republican Party that is defeatist. Where is their leadership? When they had it, they tried to outspend the Democrats. I mean I like what Sarah Palin stands for and then she goes and endorses John McCain.

What is that all about?

JimP| 3.23.10 @ 10:01PM

RAMIII: Yeah the GOP has an element of defeatists within it for sure. They are generally the RINOs. Don't sweat the astroturf on the left. Re-read Jeff's column. Think about the civil disobedience angle as in Going Galt, not patronizing leftist supporting business, etc, etc, etc. Protest when and if you can. Utilize internet petitions. Anything, however small, can help. Add it up among all of us who don't want ObamaCare and it can have a positive effect. Let's all go on welfare (sarc), go to the Dr. for hang nails once O Care is in effect, work off the books, whatever. Brainstorm with your friends about what you can do to stick it to them. Let's collapse their system on them. Jeff gave some good ideas, come up with more, network and recruit.

Thom| 3.23.10 @ 4:47PM

Actually RAMIII, the evidence is quit to the contrary of your statements. Why do you think armed looters run from armed citizens? The 300 Spartans fought off several times their numbers and none of their attackers were “free” men as that was understood at the time. Same deal for the Alamo. The Mog. People who work for something will ultimately not go quietly in the night if they have the means to make that so. Pack animals live by the rules of the pack and seldom survive alone against equal odds in nature. Same deal with two legged pack animals. Some of us get this and understand the task at hand. We didn’t deal the cards on this hand nor do we make it our life’s work to deal from the bottom of the deck but that’s the hand dealt.
You are right about most of us not having the “time” but that’s the result of having to make the effort to support all the freebooters in our society. At some point we will make the time required. On top of this with each lie revealed (gee, some many lies, liars lately and so little time) more and more people get off the fence and take a side. Continuous poll trends coupled with several large reversals at the ballot box are indicative of the direction of the resistant to whatever you wish to call this current tyranny. It will ultimately come down to if the two legged pack animals want to show us their teeth in order to intimidate us. Might not work out too well for them on that day. Why, because people who actually make this country work have demonstrated time and time again they will give their life for ideals above and beyond stealing from someone else as the Pack does. This nation is moving toward “war” and has been for a while but right now there is still the illusion of three branches of government, checks and balances and a working political process that needs to get its act together real soon and become reintroduced to the founding principles else it won’t be “war by other means” but the violent kind where the winner is defined as the one who loses the least. I’d like to avoid that but ultimately it won’t be my call. I’m just too old for rug burns and getting down on my knees at this point in life.
The seriousness of the situation can’t be overstated. The stakes are as high as they were in 1773. Freedom isn’t “free” gang and no government has ever delivered it to any people who appreciated what they had been given as much as those that fought for what they won. Fight this or die as a slave.

RAMIII| 3.23.10 @ 6:26PM

You have stated it better than me. Please see my additional post above for my attempt at clarifying my position.

Ed| 3.23.10 @ 2:13PM

Another idea for passive resistance would be to boo, jeer, and chant loud insults whenever these clowns appear at a truly public event like a college graduation. These people are bullies and cowards, and will quickly abandon any public events other than the ones where they control who gets in and who does not.

Retarded Idea| 3.23.10 @ 2:34PM

Booing? That's your brilliant fucking idea? What an idiot. Can't you see they'll just kick you out. Google Alex Jones and FEMA Concentration Camps. DO IT! Obama is cracking down on our liberty. The time for passive resistence is OVER! Google flouride and John Birch Society.

ncgma| 3.23.10 @ 2:39PM

We must show our strength, but in a respectful way...otherwise it inflames the other side. Much like the rumors this past weekend of racial slurs being made, yet no video exists of these claims. You know if it were true, the videos would be shown over and over to show what "racist pigs" we are.

Rick| 3.23.10 @ 2:20PM

This bill is never going to get repealed. Assuming that Republicans won 2/3's of house and senate needed to overcome a presidential veto, which is impossible, the American people would be against repeal. By then the tea partiers will forget about the whole thing and the rest of the country will start to enjoy the goodies in the bill. Face it, we've lost. Reagan's city on hill is in smithereens.

The question is what we do now that we know this government is actively working to enslave us. We need to take refuge in the forests like the Wolverines did in the movie Red dawn when they were invaded by Commie scum. We'll build up a resistence somewhere in the foothills of Colorado. When we get there, we'll divide the land into lots, each individually owned and COMPLETELY PRIVATE. Each individual will specialize in whatever they possess a comparative advantage in and voluntary trade will ensue. It's likely that some will have to specialize in making weapons as we will need an army to fight off the hispanic / black mobs.

The army will be completely voluntary, a collection of inviduals and not a mindless, socialist mass. Everyone will provide their own weapons, that way nobody will be forced to pay taxes (aka steal the labor of others) for the defense of other people (no free riders). Our constitution will consist of one phrase, "FROM MY COLD DEAD HAND!" --> no implied rights; all women will carry fetuses to full term.

Property rights will be rigidly enforced and delineated to eliminate the tragedy of the commons, and there will be no government involvment whatsoever. Within 10 years, our productive possiblity frontier will exceed that of California. Within 20, the United States. All the world will marvel at what we have created and throw themselves before us and beg us to relieve them from the terrifying grips of Obamacare. But we will laugh. They will ask why we not helping them. We'll reply, "help yourself."

Alan| 3.23.10 @ 2:33PM

I second this plan, and I know I'm not the only gun-owner who is interested in something like this - many of us have been pushed to the edge.

Anyone else out there interested in putting something like this into action? Perhaps we can start an email list (very private, of course - you know O-bots are doing their best to keep track of people like us).

Roy| 3.23.10 @ 4:09PM

Uh, and within a year or two your entire group will be under arrest for tax evasion.

Pingback| 3.23.10 @ 2:22PM

Obamacare: What do we do now? « PoliticallyEmpowered.com links to this page. Here’s an excerpt:

…so), but if so what’s an option for rebelling? That’s why we need to eliminate the income tax taken from your paychecks, it makes it too hard to rebel. Fair Tax, anyone? http://spectator.org/archives/2010/03/23/health-care-rebellion-lessons // Posted in Domestic Issues, General/Current Events, Size and Scope of Government, Social Programs, Tax Policy & Govt. Funding | Tags: Bill Kristol, Borodino,…

Tim| 3.23.10 @ 2:25PM

How are property rights going to be delineated and enforced without a government? Also, it seems like you might have a free rider problem without taxes. Nobody is going to be willing to fight because they know that others will just piggy back off of their defense.

Chris Colvin| 3.23.10 @ 2:26PM

America is like an alcoholic. You have to hit rock bottom before you can recover. We've hit our, "rock bottom." It is now time to, "recover."
Get out and vote in November

Tim| 3.23.10 @ 2:29PM

Get out and vote my ass. Vote for who. Republicans who are just as guilty as the Dems. In all the years Republicans have been in charge, they never once repealed Medicare or Social Security. Some of them were even out there defending Medicare this year. We need a Revolution.

Melvin| 3.23.10 @ 3:07PM

As much as your, "La Revolucion" is appealing we have to go the diplomatic route. Because if we take to arms this plays right into want the statists want and they clamp down on us with an iron fist and all those nice new 5 Star FEMA camps.
Government can't control us completely, there hasn't been a civilization in modern history that hasn't completely controled the populace completely, many have come close but the human spirit prevails and we always end up winning the day.
We will win the day on this one. It won't be pretty, easy or painless, but if enough of us believe, ya we can bring down tyranny.
We won't be the first and we sure as hell won't be the last.

Jimmy Crack Corn| 3.23.10 @ 3:46PM

"Government can't control us completely..."

Not when we start tracking down these fuckers they can't. You ever hear of the Holicost. Hitler and his Commie cronies killed over a million people. Open your fucking mind. You people are blind. Government's been controlling us for decades. WE THE PEOPLE need to rise up. If your reading this, you know what needs doing, so do it....

Ken (Old Texican)| 3.23.10 @ 4:45PM

Chris, well said! Extremely on point.
Thank you and welcome to the conversation.

Tim| 3.23.10 @ 2:33PM

Anymore Tim's show up here and were gonna need a referee.

Ken (Old Texican)| 3.23.10 @ 4:49PM

Is this my friend the funny Tim?

PLEASE, modify your screen-name. There is a nasty twerp with the same screen-name. He is truly a spineless twerp. Help us out here. I need to know when to scroll past the nasty child.

ncgma| 3.23.10 @ 2:45PM

Another site with info:
Hugh Hewitt's blog
http://hughhewitt.com/blog/

Tim| 3.23.10 @ 2:49PM

Immediately after Obama signed The Health Bill , 13 State Attorneys General filed a lawsuit against The Federal Government claiming The Bill is unconstitutional .

Tim| 3.23.10 @ 2:57PM

The Weekly Meeting Of Micks Named Tim Has Been Canceled Due To Lack Of Interest.

NJK| 3.23.10 @ 3:10PM

Civil disobedience is just what the doctor ordered!

Tim| 3.23.10 @ 3:11PM

What no Timmy? How bout Timothy?

ncgma| 3.23.10 @ 3:11PM

Something interesting- the bill is suppose to contain a "Religious Conscience Exemption", but I cannot find out much about it.

Bob| 3.23.10 @ 3:17PM

Lord, what are you smoking? Now that the bill has passed, you need to look at the numbers closer. Over half of Americans think this bill is good or is not LIBERAL enough -- in other words, they want universal health care. Would someone who wants universal health care really support repeal? People are getting another freebie and will vote against anyone trying to take it away.

Besides, in this case there is a moral argument on both sides of the issue -- coverage for all versus over taxation. This is NOT taxation without representation as everyone gets the benefits. The real problem with the bill is that it is fiscally irresponsible and you and other Republicans have absolutely no moral standing on this issue since not even Reagan made government smaller and Bush grew government even more than Clinton. Therefore, your rebellion arguments are simply dumb (as you can see by the lemmings responses you received). The way to take the moral high road is to develop a way to reduce medicare and social security and stand firm on those issues. Again, Republicans were AGAINST the reductions in Medicare in this bill -- in other words, they were on the wrong side of fiscal conservatism. We've got to REDUCE entitlements to make government smaller.

John| 3.23.10 @ 3:36PM

What are you smoking, hopium? Latest poll shows 36% support the bill and 59% oppose. I posit that more will be opposed as they learn more about it.

It will not be a "freebie" for the middle class when their health insurance premiums go up faster than they had in the past or when they can't find a doctor because so many are quitting. The American people are against ObamaCare, so let's repeal it ASAP.

Jack| 3.23.10 @ 3:48PM

I think what your missing is that of the 59% who oppose 13% oppose it because it's not liberal enough. In other words, the majority of the country think it's liberal enough, or not liberal enough and don't oppose it on conservative grounds.

Ken (Old Texican)| 3.23.10 @ 4:56PM

Jack,
or whoever you are to keep me from scrolling past you..........those 13% are wimpy cowards and poor beggars we would enjoy hiring......if they would work.
Conversely, we bill-payers are pithed off. Make your bet and take the consequences.

Jack| 3.23.10 @ 10:40PM

Aside from being cowards, they're also voters. Another poll out today has 49% in favor of healthcare passage and 49% against. Interestingly, of the 49% against, 12% oppose the bill because it is not liberal enough. The trend, at least over the last couple of weeks, is that the bill is getting more and more popular. If there is one thing Americans like, it's a winner. And if there is one thing they can't abide, it's a loser. Regardless of what you think of the policy, politically, the Republicans, after a year of fighting and hype, lost this weekend. I think it would be a mistake for the Republicans to campaign on repeal. They need to change the subject.

danfromatlanta| 3.23.10 @ 4:22PM

what are you smokin', Bob? There were no reductions in this bill other than reductions in coverage. This bill grows everything except quality and freedom. Republicans aren't going to back something stupid just because the CBO scores it as a savings!

Bob| 3.23.10 @ 8:19PM

If you would bother to read, I didn't support this bill because it didn't cut health care costs. Just because I think what the Republicans did was dumb and what AmSpec writes is dim-witted, doesn't mean that I don't think that liberals will ruin this country economically....

Thom| 3.23.10 @ 5:12PM

Hey, Bob, elections are polls too. Virginia, New Jersey and Massachusetts were significant reverses of political winds and King Obama’s number #1 priority for 14 months has been this bill front and center 24/7. Generic polls by reputable polling agencies of which CNN is certainly not one have trended for Republicans for over 8 months now and the gap keeps increasing. I am perfectly willing to believe CNN’s poll is a reasonably accurate among CNN listeners and their political slant in general but they have never been unbiased and reliable where as the general voting population is concerned. By their standard, Virginia, New Jersey and Massachusetts would be solidly in Democrat control. Having done due diligence through all the reams of pitfalls and cravats of polls and market surveys I think your beliefs here are simply not supported by the facts and you are guilty of coloring your judgment with your own biases and self interest in your King. The poll that counts will come on Nov 2nd and the last poll that counted your King only got 52.9% of the vote and has essentially lied his way to where he is in reputable polls over the last 14 months. Congenital liars can’t help themselves and can’t stop else it would destroy their delusional image of themselves. Feel free to disagree with some “government” report but I’m not the one that has invested in a fairly tale character and wishful thinking with failed economic policies of both the 30s and 70s. Every two years one poll matters and most have figured out (or will by the end of this year) that “free” isn’t free.

Thom| 3.23.10 @ 6:27PM

“We've got to REDUCE entitlements to make government smaller” so say Bob. Well Bob, you kind of voted for the wrong political party for that to ever happen. Your new found friends in the Democrat Party are the plank owners for Social Security, Medicare/Medicaid, Obamacare and the grand daddy of all wealth destroying and transfer programs the “progressive income tax” system which was highly favored by none other than Karl Marx. Know why good old Karl advocated the progressive income tax there Bob? I’ll let you find that there “government” report on that. A hint, it destroys incentives for achievement above and beyond the lowest common denominator and rewards “sloth”. Who benefits from that?

Beyond the obvious political problems with taking something from people you tax them their whole life for and make promises you can’t keep, there are some real world practical problems with your simplistic demand here.

Number 1, all those people you taxed over say 45+ years of their life at 10-15.3 % of their income don’t have the money that would have been produced if invested instead and couldn’t for the most part match that amount by other means. We have data points on that from none other than the Social Security Administration once you get beyond their “government” reports and get the raw data and glen real information from the “data”. In general, one third of those that receive SS now have nothing else as income and the average payout is little better the soon to be minimum wage before taxes. You get by on $13,000 a year Bob and maintain a home, car, etc.? Nearly another third have another income source about equal to what SS pays them. You get by on $26,000 a year Bob? And at the top where Warren Buffet and Bill Gates round out the top tier, if they both gave everything away and just has SS for an income they would get a little more than I (and you Bob) but that wouldn’t support a double wide on a quarter acre lot in any large urban area. It won’t support me where I live now and when you boil it all down there Bob, SS provides something around poverty level as defined by the government for most receiving it and it is going broke even at 15.3% rate. We both know why and like the “progressive income” tax system your new found friends love so much, it punishes achievement and rewards “sloth”.

Number 2, unlike you I know what my adult life time health care insurance cost has been and my expenses. That along with every W2, W4, end of year pay stub and know the employer/employee portion of my benefits back to 1973 gives me more “data” than you can find in a “government” report. By any nominalization process you use (NPV, FPV, etc) to adjust the dollar cost to constant dollars the difference between what I’ve paid vs. what I’ve cost is considerable. My adult life to date expense is about what one year of UAW pre-paid medical is now. My HSA bears no resemblance to the figures your King throws out for pre-paid medical plans. The 100% plan I had before this bears no resemblance to the figures your King is throwing out. So tell me Bob, who is the problem here, the UAW type pre-paid “free” health care plan or my HSA? We know which plan is going to be “extinct” under Obamacare because is actually “saves” health care dollars. So please Bob tell us how we save healthcare dollars when all the lower cost premiums are going to go up to give “free” pre-paid medical to over half the 32,000,000 new freebooters and the rest to Medicaid which is already just “free” pre-paid medical for your new found friends in the Democrat Party? Just how do we lower overall GDP cost there Bob by adding 32,000,000 more people with “free” medical cost? How many do we have to kill Bob above the age of say 65 to get down to your magic number of 10% of GDP? Or do we just cut the salaries of everyone working in Healthcare in half to reach that magic number? Give us the “government” report on this Bob, give us the “data” you always demand from everyone when you don’t have the answers.

Let’s be real clear here Bob, all these programs produce false hopes in reward for votes that ultimately leads to 4-5 decades of being irresponsible citizens but unless you have some magic bullet solution to 4-5 decades of lost savings and investments into one’s retirement income and medical needs, the majority of those that actually work 4 or so decades don’t have the discretionary incomes to pay both SS, Medicare/Medicaid and the progressive income tax and then put enough away to not be dependent on these ponzi schemes. To make it even clearer for you Bob, it your new found friends in the Democrat Party and King Obama have created these mechanism over the last 7 decades that make our labor uncompetitive in the world market not just health care cost. Health care cost is just the tip of a very large iceberg of tax burden that weights down our per capita labor rates. We didn’t lose all our manufacturing jobs to other countries over healthcare cost. The commercial shipbuilding industry has been gone for decades, a large portion of our auto industry is gone and a long list of other industries are leaving and health care cost here has nothing to do with the root cause.

Come on Bob, tell us how to lower our entitlement cost without killing millions in the process? That’s why you learn by the end of the first week of Macro Econ 101 that business does not pay taxes; business only complains about cost of being the tax collector; a tax subsidy for one individual is a tax increase for another and all such fictions including “wealth transfer” programs will ultimately lead to financial ruin.

That’s where we be there Bob and you voted for the plank holders of all this institutions of slavery.

You own this.

Bob| 3.23.10 @ 8:24PM

So, Thom, who voted in the prescription drug benefit? My point is that Republicans were just as bad as Democrats. Why should I support McCain when he makes a stupid choice like Palin and will act just like Bush creating much more debt through tax cuts that aren't paid for and more entitlement programs?

If I continued voting for Republicans, I'd be telling them that what they were doing was good. That doesn't send any message. If they run a smart, educated, and fiscally conservative candidate in 2012, I'll vote for him/her.

Jeffrey Lord| 3.23.10 @ 11:04PM

Bob..

"Again, Republicans were AGAINST the reductions in Medicare in this bill -- in other words, they were on the wrong side of fiscal conservatism."

So, we should support this monstrosity because it cuts Medicare? Ohhhhhhhhh man!

Tim| 3.24.10 @ 8:57AM

Mr. Lord:
If I were you I'd be less concerned about Bob and more concerned with the massive Tim constituency. We are legion...

Tim| 3.23.10 @ 3:28PM

Timmy's Out Playin' With Lassie!

Tom in Michigan| 3.23.10 @ 3:35PM

Obamacare is only the beginning. Next up: immigration "reform" with the Democrats using the same legislative malfeasance to pass a general amnesty for illegals, thereby creating 17-20 million new "citizen-voters" grateful to the Democrats for the “reform-of-a-broken-system” bill and mad at the Republicans for opposing it.

Here's what Thomas Sowell said today in Investors' Business Daily, "The corrupt manner in which this massive legislation was rammed through Congress, without any of the committee hearings or extended debates that most landmark legislation has had, has provided a road map for pushing through more such sweeping legislation in utter defiance of what the public wants."

This is really the most insidious aspect of what has just occurred. The ultimate goal is a one-party state. If you want to see a one-party state; come visit us in Detroit (well, come anyway; we need the tourist dollars and, Michigan really is a nice place - honest).

Finally, health and immigration "reform" will be followed by other outrages. To quote a prescient line from Michael Medved, the Left intends to "flood the zone" putting forth so much at one time as to overwhelm the opposition. A one-party state, even more than mere “statism” is the greatest threat to liberty this nation has ever encountered. The examples listed in the article are mere annoyances by comparison.

John| 3.23.10 @ 3:40PM

Agreed! Visit Detroit or visit the rapidly-declining Chicago, Illinois. Illinois unemployment keeps going up and at 11.3% is fast approaching Michigan levels. Obama worked wonders here in Illinois- higher spending, union giveaways and even higher trending deficits and unemployment. Sound familiar?

Consider also the cost of amnesty for illegals. As of today, the poor ones (virtually all of them) are all entitled to free health insurance, which will cost you, the taxpayer, $14,000 a pop.

But I disagree amnesty will happen as long as unemployment is ~10%. Even the blue collar Democrats will not stand for illegal alien amnesty right now. Especially if conservatives stand up.

Tom in Michigan| 3.23.10 @ 4:00PM

Thanks for your comments, John. However, I don't believe the Democrats are afraid of anything right now. They've suborned the legislative process and can do whatever they want. Perennial double-digit unemployment is also part of the plan as it works to their advantage. Consider, for example all the sob stories we heard over the last year about people who had lost their insurance because they lost their jobs. The Left is employing the Cloward/Piven strategy of overthrowing capitalism by overwhelming the nation with ever more entitlement demands. This is what Rahm Emanual let slip when he stated "a crisis was a terrible thing to waste" as it provides the impetus to bring about radical political change. The first step in the revolution to come is to totally reject the Left and their running dogs.

JimP| 3.23.10 @ 3:42PM

A MESSAGE FOR THE DEFEATISTS AMONG US:

To all you lame a$$es, whiners, gutless pukes, Rear Echelon MFers, perpetual bitchers, nit pickers and various other doom and gloom nay sayers: Just go ahead and off yourselves since you’ve given up and have no hope. Enough already complaining about how it’s hopeless and nothing will work. We don’t need or want you with us. We will not carry you over the finish line. We want fighters with us. Not a bunch of Old Maids afraid of their shadow. You are dead weight and can only slow us down. You’re beaten having only lost a battle. You don’t have the right stuff. Thanks for letting the rest of us know that now. You are summer soldiers and sunshine patriots. We want Bravehearts, not faint hearts. So go. Take your defeatism and surrender to the enemy. The rest of us know we still retain the power to resist. Run up the white flag and tell Obama you quit. That he and his leftist minions are too much for you. That Barry, Harry and Nan are better “men” than you are. AMF and DLTDHYITA on the way out.

Tim| 3.23.10 @ 3:58PM

Wow JimP , No More Caffeine For You.

JimP| 3.23.10 @ 4:07PM

LOL. It ain't caffeine that has me bugged. It's the self pitying, limp @!C#$ and defeatists.

Ken (Old Texican)| 3.23.10 @ 5:01PM

I'm with you, Jim!
(The first time I have ever done this)
Jim wrote.....""

""A MESSAGE FOR THE DEFEATISTS AMONG US:

To all you lame a$$es, whiners, gutless pukes, Rear Echelon MFers, perpetual bitchers, nit pickers and various other doom and gloom nay sayers: Just go ahead and off yourselves since you’ve given up and have no hope. Enough already complaining about how it’s hopeless and nothing will work. We don’t need or want you with us. We will not carry you over the finish line. We want fighters with us. Not a bunch of Old Maids afraid of their shadow. You are dead weight and can only slow us down. You’re beaten having only lost a battle. You don’t have the right stuff. Thanks for letting the rest of us know that now. You are summer soldiers and sunshine patriots. We want Bravehearts, not faint hearts. So go. Take your defeatism and surrender to the enemy. The rest of us know we still retain the power to resist. Run up the white flag and tell Obama you quit. That he and his leftist minions are too much for you. That Barry, Harry and Nan are better “men” than you are. AMF and DLTDHYITA on the way out. ""

God bless, Jim

JimP| 3.23.10 @ 5:47PM

Ken,

Thanks for the support and the blessing. God Bless you too.
How soon is Texas going to secede?

James| 3.23.10 @ 10:43PM

You have a limp cock?

Melvin| 3.23.10 @ 4:04PM

I tell you what you bunch of infantile Alex Joneses go ahead and have your little armed rebellion, and let me watch how far you get.
The same shit that we are waxing the Taliban with will be used on you and those who get out alive will be interned in FEMA Camps.
If it comes to a armed rebellion then so be it, but ya don't go out half-cocked and expect to be successful.
By the way you bunch of genius's, lets say for the sake of argument that you are successful who or what is going to fill the vacuum? Or are you going to replace crap with shit.

Liberal Reader| 3.23.10 @ 4:55PM

FEMA camps.

That's right Melvin. FEMA camps are right around the corner.

And YOU'RE going to be first onto the choo choo train. You and Michelle Bachmann. We're going to chuff you off to a FEMA camp, where you'll endure socialized medicine, free needles, sex education, and a government sponsored low-fat diet consisting mostlyof arugula.

Ken (Old Texican)| 3.23.10 @ 5:11PM

Melvin,
Try to forgive the twerps.

They have never wept over a friend whose feces was bubbling out of his blown up belly.

You know, Melvin, I always smell that smell again, every time I read the euphemism in a novel..."the coppery smell of blood".

HEY TWERPS..............YOU WILL NEVER SMELL "BLOOD"..........YOU WILL SMELL FECES....THE WOUNDED...AND PROBABLY YOURS AS YOU LOSE IT.

Tim| 3.23.10 @ 4:12PM

Okey Dokey JimP !

In That Case , Carry On .

Tim| 3.23.10 @ 4:22PM

Melvin you're such a pill.

Tim| 3.23.10 @ 5:05PM

Yeah Melvin ,What Tim There Says !

Speakin' Of Half Cocked ,You're Wife Said To Remind Ya To Take Your Viagra.

Melvin| 3.23.10 @ 6:49PM

Funny, your mother never complained before.

Bill in Texas| 3.23.10 @ 5:11PM

Business are nothing more than tax collectors for the government...thats why they are allowed to write off everything under the sun, pass on any costs to the consumers, including the 25 % corporate tax. Small businessmen and women are so important to this economy, but, they are also the lifeblood (tax collection)of money to this administration. Reduce our contributions any way possible. Small fish in a huge school. They cannot arrest us all....they need our "contributions", though reduced they may be...LOL

JimP| 3.23.10 @ 5:44PM

Right on, Bill. Go Galt.

Ken (Old Texican)| 3.23.10 @ 5:13PM

Bill in Texas,
SHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!
(smile)

RAMIII| 3.24.10 @ 9:41AM

One (two) Questions:

Why do people who DON'T pay any taxes (because they get all these "welfare" tax credits from the govmt) get to vote?

Doesn't this mean they get to vote for the guy who promises them the tax money I pay (i.e. "legal" robbery)?

Jeff Perren | 3.23.10 @ 5:58PM

It's time for zero tolerance for Progressivism and its supporters. Whenever possible, don't trade with them. Don't feed them. Don't sell them cars, insurance, medical care, or anything else.

Let them go to Sweden if they want to live according to that philosophy.

Joe B| 3.23.10 @ 6:17PM

Martin Luther King was a socialist humbug. What a dope. From him there is nothing to be learned except that when liberals get caught plagiarizing or committing adultery, it's no big thang!

George S| 3.23.10 @ 6:18PM

I, too, believe this will be repealed if one and only one thing happens. Next year, insurance premiums are going to skyrocket, and the mess is going to fall right into the lap of the new Republican congress. If the Republicans allow Obama to control the message that Republican resistance is (or always has been) the reason for the premium increases, and that the only solution is the public option, we are sunk. However, if Republicans control the message that the Democrats own the whole mess, the public will be receptive to repeal legislation and will tune out Obama. But those premium increases are going to be a tall order to overlook, so Republicans better start now with the gloom and doom.

True, Obama will veto any legislation but we can count on two things: first, the sweep this November will convince the surviving Democrats that 2012 will bring the same wipe out now that Obama will be on the ballot (or not) and there is a target of frustration at the ballot box, especially with a recalcitrant Obama vetoing the Republican's attempt to fix this mess. This may be enough to pick of the six or seven (hopefully fewer) scared senators to join in the override of the veto. Ditto for the House.

Second, Republicans can apply poison pills to budget legislation and other popular Democrat bills, forcing Obama's hand since he won't have a line item veto. The Republicans should concentrate on legislation giving the States the legal out to regulate insurers that sell within the state, to state residents and only pay claims to state providers.

To further push to get rid of this, the House can hold hearings to force policymakers to explain how this bill sidesteps the problems of England, Canada, Tennessee, Hawaii, Wisconsin, Oregon and Massachusetts all suffered with comprehensive health insurance that busted budgets in every instance.

Repeal is a long shot, but the turning point is early next year. Assuming, of course, there is a decisive victory this November.

Scott| 3.23.10 @ 6:51PM

George, you need 2/3rd of the both chambers to over-ride a veto. You are saying the GOP is going to pick up 19 Senate seats and also get 7 Dem votes (to get to 67) to override? That's not even getting to the 2/3rds in the House.

There is absolutley no way repeal could take place until 2013 w/ a new POTUS.

George S| 3.23.10 @ 7:56PM

There are 13 senate seats defended by Democrats in 2010. I am hoping that 10 fall.

Five Democrats are retiring.
Dodd (win)
Kaufman (DE, win)
Burris (win)
Bayh (win)
Dorgan (win)

There are 13 incumbents running:
Lincoln (gone)
Specter (gone)
Gillibrand (gone)
Reid (gone)
Boxer (gone)
Mikulski (gone)
Murray (possible)
Feingold (possible)
Bennet (possible)
Schumer (stays)
Leahy (stays)
Wyden (stays)
Inouye (stays)

Good chance we gain 11, bringing us to 62. Need only 5 shaky Dems to join override.

House? in 1994 we took 54 seats. I think we'll get more than the 74 needed for 2/3 majority. Even if we come close with another 54, that will still scare the 20 or so Dems needed to join the majority for the override.

I think it's a good bet. We're pretty pissed; we need to hold on to that.

Lullaby's, Legends and Lies| 3.23.10 @ 8:35PM

George S: Don't worry about us holding on to our anger until November, hell my eyes open in the morning, and I'm pissed already. And it can't just be me?
But I like the way you add!! And I don't think you're too far off either!! But don't forget, crack open that wallet of yours, and send money to help defeat them. Because if we don't, our money ain't gonna be worth S*** anyway, so we might as well make it an investment in our futures instead. I'm predicting, the greatest defeat for one Party, in the History of this Country, come November. And it couldn't happen to a nicer bunch of F's!!

Nick| 3.23.10 @ 8:48PM

George S,

An 11 seat pick-up in the Senate only brings the GOP to 52 seats.

George S| 3.23.10 @ 9:45PM

Sorry guys, I jumped the gun... I was working out all the possibilities. After the Brown victory, I didn't think it out of the realm for all 18 seats to be picked up. Add to that the possibility of Lautenberg's illness could give NJ's Christie an appointment and there is a recall petition being considered for Menendez. That's the 61 (make sure I get all my fingers) I had in the back of my mind as the mathematical possibility.

Scott| 3.23.10 @ 6:45PM

Here is the huge flaw in the main argument...the individual mandate isn't going to impact enough people for there to be any rebellion. 80%+ of the country already has insurance so they aren't going to notice any signficant difference. The initial main taxes are going to hit those over $250k, half of which support Democrats anyway (via some perverse logic).

There is a tiny fraction of the country

JimP| 3.23.10 @ 7:28PM

Everyone with insurance will see their premiums go up. The taxes on medical devices will hit everyone. The increase in patients will affect everyone's access and quality of care and drive up costs (supply and demand). The costs to government will affect inflation and job growth for everyone. There is not enough money to pay for this bill which means even more deficit spending, which affects everyone. This bill is an upside down pyramid scheme and it cannot work. That's why there will be cuts: for the elderly first. Once they have died off you'll see other groups denied care; diabetics, people with cystic forbrosis etc.

Scott| 3.23.10 @ 6:47PM

....tiny fraction of the country

scott| 3.23.10 @ 6:48PM

less than 3%..... who don't have insurance, don't want insurance, make too much to get gov't subsidies under the bill. They are going to be pissed.

But good look starting a rebellion of defiance with 3% of the country over a $700 fine.

Thom| 3.23.10 @ 7:00PM

Scott, the thrust of what you say is correct (no way to repeal this before Jan 20, 2013) but it does not take more than one pissed person to win a constitutional question regarding government abuse of power where it is not allowed. If there is a rebellion, it will come from all those that get increased prems to support 32,000,000 new "free" health care consumers and that will arrive sooner than you think with risk pools being done away with. The man at the top of this scheme has lied from day one about extending coverage, reducing prem cost and letting you keep what you have..... That will produce a sort of rebellion since this is just the first act in a long list of treachery to pile on with.

JimE| 3.23.10 @ 7:07PM

Aremed rebellion? Forget it Americans don't have the stomach for it. To win conservatives must continually point out liberal flaws, stop electing morons based on the "he's the best of the worst" and stop letting the left dictate who the the right nominates, the left seLceted McCain and the repbuBlicans fell into line. Conservative ideaS must be simple," we are going to reduce taxes X %", no jibberish about credits ,etc. Never allow the left to use the tax cuts cost money BS. The right needs to quit stopping to admire their work everytime they win something, instead of stopping keep kicking the opposition in the balls.
You'll notice that as soon as they got health care 30 miniutes leter they released soundbite about cap and trade and amnesty. Right now the right should be pointing out the health care/amnesty vote buying scam.

RonP123| 3.23.10 @ 7:12PM

I am not so sure. maybe right now but let one or two incidents happen where there is some type of violent repression and I think you might be surprised. Also I don't believe either the national guard or the police would fire on a protestor. this administration will go to far. at that point all bets are off.

Thom| 3.23.10 @ 7:19PM

The NG didn't go into Kent State to shoot people but that was their only recourse as things spun out of control with a MOB. People will do what their self interest is first before they can rationalize the deeper aspect of the matter (hence Waco, Ruby Ridge were shear stupidity but it didn't change the outcome). I'd put no faith in what you think an agent of the law or military will do. Don't rush out to be the first to find out but you might want to be fully prepared if your beliefs are proven wrong.

ncgma| 3.24.10 @ 6:48AM

I agree...especially with the media rolling their cameras. Nothing would get the American public more riled up than seeing regular Americans being fired upon like Iran, China, etc. does to their protesters.

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mara| 3.23.10 @ 7:19PM

hey angels rule

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George True| 3.23.10 @ 7:37PM

To those who advocate setting up a separate country in the wilds of Colorado or somewhere, I respectfully suggest you get real. Last time I checked, 100% of the land in Colorado and every other state is already owned by someone, either private ownership or government ownership. (It is irrelevant if you think government ownership is illegitimate - possession is nine-tenths of the law.) Private owners will not hesitate to kick squatters off their land, you would too if it was your land. And the government would eventually get around to removing you one way or the other.

And most of the civil disobedience ideas will not work. Even Gandhi himself said that these tactics worked against the British because at their core, the British were a civilized and religious people. He said they would not have worked against totally ruthless and evil rulers. That is why civil disobedience does not work very well against the ChiComs, the North Koreans, the Ayatollahs, etc. Make no mistake, the Communists who now run things in our government will have no pangs of conscience over imprisoning or eliminating you if you openly threaten to bring their house down.

The best and perhaps only way to change the current direction of things is for each and every one of us to work tirelessly to throw them out of office en masse in November, and again in 2012. Instead of talking about retreating to the boonies or not paying taxes, just quietly roll up your sleeves and go to work. Call you local Republican precinct committeeman and find out how to get involved. Work diligently over the next seven months to get true conservatives elected in the Republican primaries in your own congressional district, and elsewhere in your own state. And then work diligently and contribute as much as you can afford to defeat every democrat congressman in your state who voted for the National Socialist healthcare bill. I believe, if we all work together as one, we could sweep 80 Democrat congresscritters out of office this year. Maybe we could even overthrow 7-10 democrat senators as well, and replace them with real conservatives. Once this happens, then a Republican controlled congress can simply fail to fund any implementation of Obamacare until we have a Republican president who will sign a repeal of the bill. For the next seven months, we must all eat, sleep, live, and breathe for the cause of throwing the dems out of congress. Do not allow yourselves to become distracted by anything else. What we do during the time remaining between now and November will largely determine things for many years to come.

Here in Arizona we really have our work cut out for us. Five or our eight congressmen are Dems, and they all voted for the monstrosity. I am just one guy, and I will have to focus my efforts on just one or two districts within my own state. You guys do likewise. Pick a district in your state and GO TO WORK. If we all do just that one thing, it will turn the tide in November. Right now we are like a heart in fibrillation, just a quivering mass, ineffictive, because we are all firing independently of each other instead of firing together as one. Let us all do the one thing that can make the real difference, and everything else will take care of itself.

JimP| 3.23.10 @ 7:45PM

Nonsense. Civil disobedience will still be effective here. We are not at the point where tanks will mow down citizens yet. Any and all methods may have positive effects and should be tried. Particularly in combination. There is no one proven method that will work and anyone advocating their approach and dismissing other approaches is just on an ego trip.

PS: I am not advocating violence, however.

George True| 3.23.10 @ 8:28PM

With all due respect Jim, I don't see how civil disobedience will change much of anything. Mind you, I'm not saying to quit going to townhall meetings and Tea Party events. By all means, exercise your first amendment rights to the max. But don't expect it to have much of an effect. Look at how the lapdog media covered the Tea Party rallies. They made it look like WE were the Communists, instead of us being the ones who were protesting Communism. Then in September when a million people descended on Washington to protest an out of control government and out of control spending, the media just acted like it didn't even happen. And when townhalls for the first time ever in our history were packed with righteously pissed-off constituents, again the Dems and their media co-conspirators spun it as "astroturf", or some radical fringe group, or just plain racists. Nothing you do in the way of civil disobedience will be presented in a fair or objective light, and even if it were, your Democrat congresscritters simply WILL NOT LISTEN. They will go ahead and do whatever they want while they give you, me, and the rest of the American people the middle finger.

The ONLY way to effect a change is to get in the trenches and do the hard work of getting them thrown out of office in November and replaced with principled Republicans. Everything else will fall short.

JimP| 3.23.10 @ 8:41PM

With respect, I still disagree. Mind you, I am not thinking civil disobedience is a panacea, but you dismissed it outright. That is a mistake.

mcgma| 3.24.10 @ 6:44AM

King George prob. thought the Sons of Liberty were just a nuisance too, and look what they accomplished. Civil disobedience goes hand in hand with getting in the trenches.

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Bob| 3.23.10 @ 8:33PM

Well, guys, it looks like the tide is already turning. Gallup just completed a poll that said 49% thought it was a good thing that the bill passed and 40% thought it was a bad thing.

http://www.gallup.com/poll/126.....ssage.aspx

People were not really angry at the bill, just that nothing was done, evidently. That shoots holes in all of your posts. Furthermore, Obama's job approval just jumped up to 51%.

This is what I've been saying to you guys. You and AmSpec use the numbers improperly (not a surprise). Furthermore, the strategy of using this issue as a way to gain more seats in Congress is seriously flawed. The Republicans need to develop some real plans to cut government spending and reduce entitlements and not just be the party of "no".

Lullaby's, Legends and Lies| 3.23.10 @ 8:45PM

Go jump in a lake Bob!! You're a friggin' bore, and nobody here cares what you think!! Seriously, you have to be the Number-1, scroll the hell past, poster that comes to this site. Seriously Bob, tell a joke every now and again, or an interesting story, or chuck in a little good old sarcasm occasionally. I'll tell you what Bob, you really need to open your wallet, and go down to the joke store, and buy yourself a sense of humor. I mean it!! You my friend, are a bore!! As in you're boring, as in, you bore me!! Now please, write something boring back, I'm tired, and I want to go to sleep!!

JimP| 3.23.10 @ 8:45PM

From the Gallup Poll site: "Polls conducted entirely in one day, such as this one, are subject to additional error or bias not found in polls conducted over several days."

So your comment is premature. Come back in a few weeks with Gallup's numbers. Then maybe your point of view will have more validity.

John Navratil| 3.23.10 @ 11:52PM

Wait a week. We'll see who uses numbers improperly.

ncgma| 3.24.10 @ 6:30AM

Which poll are you looking at? Rasmussen has obama's approval rating at 31%, big difference.

Pingback| 3.24.10 @ 12:13AM

The American Spectator : Health Care Rebellion: Lessons From … American Me links to this page. Here’s an excerpt:

…in complete openness and honesty, all being done at the same time. If we prevail on this, the first word out of the public is, “N ow what Here is the original p ost: The American Spectator : Health Care Rebellion: Lessons From … By admin | category: american, american health | tags: all-being, care-plan, complete-openness, diane-francis, donohue, fabric, financial-post, income, public,…

Pingback| 3.24.10 @ 12:28AM

Ezekiel | Individual Health Insurance Quote Ma links to this page. Here’s an excerpt:

…episode Spoiler! | The Daily Inquirer Castle Spoilers 11505 DYRHAM LN GLENN DALE MD 20769 MLS PG7285666 Dyrham Park Golf & Country Club, Hertfordshire, UK Dyrham Park The American Spectator : Health Care Rebellion: Lessons From … Hillary Clinton talks with the Russian Larry King – Julia Ioffe … The Countdown to John King, USA | RedState Health Insurance Share and Enjoy: Tagged with:…

Pingback| 3.24.10 @ 5:16AM

Twitter Trackbacks for The American Spectator : Health Care Rebellion: Lessons From links to this page. Here’s an excerpt:

…#rush #antiobama #republican #american #time Topsy Retweet Button Add Topsy Retweet Button to your Blog or Web Site. WordPress  Web Sites 13 tweets tweet The American Spectator : Health Care Rebellion: Lessons From Martin Luther King spectator.org/archives/2010/03/23/health-care-rebellion-lessons – view page – cached "When I took up my little sling and aimed it at Communism, I also…

Larry| 3.24.10 @ 8:20AM

Wow...the stupid is strong here. What a pathetic group of know-nothing morons.

RAMIII| 3.24.10 @ 9:52AM

Your own post is included in your assessment?

Nathan McKnight | 3.24.10 @ 11:33AM

The democratic socialist Martin Luther King Jr. is a strange choice as an ally in your fight against socialism! When Americans see the benefits the health care bill provides, your policy of smearing it as socialism will backfire. Because...

THIS IS SOCIALISM: Small business tax credits. No denying coverage for sick children. Affordable coverage for adults with pre-existing conditions. Cheap medicine for seniors. All policy holders can choose any primary care provider, not just approved providers. Insurance for retirees. Young ... See Moreadults up to age 26 can stay on their parent's policies. Free check-ups for everybody. No hidden costs. No lifetime limits on coverage. Larger annual coverage limits. No dropping people because they get sick. No descrimination based on salary. Transparency in consumer choice. Help in choosing your coverage. Appeals process for policy holders who feel they are unfairly treated. More primary care providers. Universal voluntary disability coverage.

MattZ| 3.24.10 @ 11:58AM

Really?
Expanded health care access to the poor and the stupid is your call to arms? You're trivializing the fighting that the founding fathers did for your country.

You need to get a new standard-bearer, or a life.
MZ

Jon B| 3.24.10 @ 2:15PM

I'm curious to learn how people paying for their own health care, and a shift away from Socialized Medicare, is socialism?

If I set an old LP record out in the Sahara, it probably couldn't become as warped as today's neo-conservative thinkers have become.

Nick| 3.24.10 @ 4:05PM

Pay no attention to Jon B, folks.

He peddles lies and marxist propaganda. Oops! Redundant.

Like the lie that President Reagan gave the Soviets $425 billion.

After 3 days of trying to belittle those of us who called him out on his lie, he finally admitted his fabrication.

Although, he then claimed it was a mistake That it was actually $425 million, but he offered no source. Just his deeply flawed memories.

He is not worthy of your time.

Pingback| 3.24.10 @ 2:49PM

Health Care Reform is like the Massive Repressions of History « blueollie links to this page. Here’s an excerpt:

Care Reform is like the Massive Repressions of History « blueollie blueollie Home About Blueollie Health Care Reform is like the Massive Repressions of History Sometimes “teh stupid” just burns: By Jeffrey Lord on 3.23.10 @ 6:09AM “When I took up my little sling and aimed it at Communism, I also hit at something else. What I hit was the force of that great Socialist…

Gregory P. Garwood| 3.24.10 @ 3:03PM

I’ve heard that it may be as high as 50% of doctors are going to retire, change occupations or refuse to participate in socialized medicine. I am sure that the next edict from Obamagrad, DC will be to order physicians to practice or face stiff penalties.
The progressive elite in this country don’t give a rip about the health and well being of the citizens, it’s all about power. And, if you think the elite horde are done, think again. This socialist health farce is the tip of the iceberg. The progressive socialists have already taken on the evil tobacco companies in the name of health. Next the elite enlightened progressives are going to target the evil meat and poultry industry. And, how about the irresponsible Dairy people, they should pay as well, right? These arrogant bastards want total control. If they are already attempting to out law table salt in restaurants in New York, what will they ever stop at in the name of health care? I choose to live by the words of Patrick Henry “Give me liberty or give me death!” I will die before I ever submit to this arrogant flatulence from Obamagrad, DC

Who| 3.24.10 @ 10:13PM

All this conservative talk about the fall of liberty, the smothering grip of socialism is just plain wrong. It's a scary forecast, the logical consquences of conservative ideology running ripshod through your head.

reebok wholesale reebok wholesale This website sells reebok easytone. Reebok easy tone is the best pair of your all shoes,you can make a purchase for reebok easytone shoes online.I guarantee you will be fond of reebok easy tone shoes.

RussS| 3.24.10 @ 3:56PM

People who oppose something always tend to think the other side only wants power. It is the partisan nature of the human brain.

Obamacare is here to stay. Any attempts to weaken it via constitutional challenges will only accelerate the move to single payer. You have to really think it through to understand why this is true. It is structured in a way that so that mass refusal to comply with the mandate, refusal to pay the fine, and/or overturning the mandate will only lead to the thing liberals really wanted - a public option that will become a defacto single payer system.

This wasn't intentional, but there was a reason democrats thought healthcare legislation had to be comprehensive. Everything fits together. One thing falls apart and it all falls apart, and since America will never go back to 'pre-existing conditions' there is only one thing at the end of the road.

And you know what? America will still be America. It won't make a lick of difference. All this conservative talk about the fall of liberty, the smothering grip of socialism is just plain wrong. It's a scary forecast, the logical consquences of conservative ideology running ripshod through your head. All political ideologies do the same thing - they dire consequences if the other side wins. That is why they survive.

I am optimistic about America's future. If Obamacare survives a year it will either survive forever or become single payer. A VAT will save our country from bankruptcy, and we will continue to be the greatest nation on this earth.

Nick| 3.24.10 @ 5:29PM

RussS,

Put the crack-pipe down, it's rotting your brain.

philfl63| 3.24.10 @ 8:07PM

Author, enough with the Y-T guilt. Please do not disgrace the accomplishments of great men like Walesa and the Adamses with the likes of Martin Luther King and Ghandi both of whom were rabble rousers and frauds. "Justice in business"? That sounds like Obamugabe's whine about social justice. Such nonsense.

Pingback| 3.25.10 @ 8:21AM

Uniden PRO510XL CB Radio, Great Starter or Back-Up !!! | KillerReviewz.info links to this page. Here’s an excerpt:

…to UK … - WebWire … Buying Wealthy Affiliate Related posts on cb radio is a cb antenna also good for all shortwave radio listening … Related posts on cb radios The American Spectator : Health Care Rebellion: Lessons From … Wire Antenna | Radios and Accessories Don't be a refugee » Blog Archive » Radio Comms Share this on del.icio.us Digg this! Post this on Diigo Share this on Reddit…

Enoch711| 3.25.10 @ 12:59PM

“Of all the forms of inequality, injustice in healthcare is the most shocking and inhumane.” --Martin Luther King

'nuff said.

Trackback| 3.25.10 @ 6:09PM

Dish Network Deals, on Dish Network Deals, links to this page. Here’s an excerpt:

This entry was written by admin , posted on January 21, 2008 at 1: 23 pm , filed under Something for every budget. Bookmark the permalink. Follow any comments here with the RSS feed for this post. Post a comment or leave a trackback: Trackback URL. Post a Comment Click here to cancel reply.

Pingback| 3.27.10 @ 7:16PM

Forex Rebellion System | myfapturboforex.com | Watch Forex Videos - Biggest online co links to this page. Here’s an excerpt:

…Leather Bar Stools | The Original Source 8-bit Rebellion Game by Linkin Park | channelAPA.com How To Win Big With Automated Forex System Trading | Financial Advice 4u The American Spectator : Health Care Rebellion: Lessons From Martin Luther King Screenwriter/Director Richard Brooks « Screenwriting from Iowa Why Successful Traders Always Follow A Forex System | Finance and Money Automated Forex System…

Pingback| 4.1.10 @ 7:20PM

The American Spectator : Health Care Rebellion: Lessons From … | HealthRetails.Com links to this page. Here’s an excerpt:

…we can raise the needed money to take care of our own sick. It will not take long for this to shut down the health care folly. Read more from the original source: The American Spectator : Health Care Rebellion: Lessons From … Posted in Uncategorized | Post a Comment Name (required) E-mail (will not be published) (required) Website Pages About   March 2010 M T W T F S S « Feb  …

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