The American Spectator : Trusting Terrorists, Abandoning Troops

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Trusting Terrorists, Abandoning Troops

By Ben Lerner on 3.12.10 @ 6:08AM

Michelle Obama, take note: detainees at Guantanamo are being fed 6,000 calories a day.

I recently returned from a week-long media tour in Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, where some of our finest soldiers and sailors are tasked with a difficult and thankless job: guarding dangerous detainee enemy combatants captured in the course of the Global War on Terror. In the same week, Reps. Burton (R-Ind.) Rohrabacher (R-Cal.) and Gohmert (R-Tex.) presented Pentagon officials with 170,000 signatures from Americans asking that courts-martial proceedings against three Navy SEALs be dropped. The charges: after the SEALs apprehended Ahmed Hashim Abed, the al Qaeda terrorist wanted for the torture and murder of four American contractors in Fallujah in 2004, one of them allegedly punched him, while the other two allegedly made false statements about the incident.

Although the personnel at Gitmo and these Navy SEALs are serving their nation at opposite ends of the globe, an unfortunate and troubling thread connects them. In both settings, our government has deliberately decided to overlook the exemplary job that these military professionals have done in service to the United States, under extremely difficult circumstances. Instead, our government has chosen to give the benefit of the doubt to the enemies of our nation and the critics of its self-defense, by prosecuting the SEALs who risk their own lives to apprehend jihadists, and pushing the false narrative that has come to define detention operations at Gitmo.

While the three Navy SEALs await the opportunity to answer the charges against them, the Obama administration and its supporters have already passed judgment on those handling detention operations at Guantanamo Bay for the past eight years. The president himself has referred to Guantanamo as a “sad chapter in American history,” and has lamented that Guantanamo has “set back the moral authority that is America’s strongest currency in the world.”

After one sees firsthand how the detainees are really treated at Gitmo, it becomes evident that these characterizations are entirely unfounded.

Every detainee held at Gitmo has 24/7 access to the hospital specifically set up for them, complete with an X-Ray machine (to accommodate the high number of sports injuries, including those from the popular intramural soccer games) and Intensive Care Unit. Detainees are offered annual physicals, in-patient and out-patient treatment, and interpreter services. At the hospital pharmacy, detainees have over 500 different brand-name medications available to them — anything that is unavailable at the pharmacy can be obtained from off the base. The hospital’s mental health unit has a psychologist and psychiatrist on staff for the detainees.

The detainees are provided 6,000 calories a day (assuming they eat all they are given). They have their choice of six meal options for each of their three daily, hand-delivered meals (regular, vegetarian w/ fish, veggie no fish, high fiber, soft diet, bland diet), along with their choice of salad and dessert. All of the meat is certified “halal” per the requirements of Islam, making it expensive for the kitchen to purchase.

The Gitmo library contains more than 13,000 books, almost a thousand magazines, and hundreds of DVDs — for whatever reason, the most popular books amongst the detainees is the Harry Potter series. Books are available in English, Arabic, Pashto, Farsi, Russian, and French. Additionally, every detainee receives USA Today, plus one Saudi newspaper and one Egyptian newspaper, along with two Korans. Gitmo offers several classes for detainees — literacy (Arabic and Pashto), English-as-a-second-language, and art — and also allows for at least four hours of recreation a day, sometimes in groups. Three of the camps I saw had outdoor soccer fields, and various camps also had foosball, table-tennis, and aerobic exercise equipment.

The religious preferences of the detainees are taken very seriously. In addition to the two Korans, detainees also receive prayer rugs, prayer caps, and prayer beads. They pray five times a day, and are allowed to observe Muslim holidays such as Ramadan, for which the kitchen adjusts its own cooking schedule. In the recreation yards of Camp 5, the maximum security camp, there are black arrows painted on the cement, pointing towards Mecca so the detainee will know which way to face for prayer. The same camp has several clocks in the recreation area, in case one stops working, so that detainees will know exactly when to start praying.

The Guantanamo Joint Task Force employs a 52-year-old of Middle Eastern descent named “Zak” as a “cultural advisor,” to serve as a conduit between the detainees and Gitmo personnel. He conveys that his job is to help guards and detainees understand each other, and to educate those who have to interact with the detainees. Gitmo personnel have 24/7 access to Zak, who has taught the guards that detainees will not answer their cell door while praying, and also says that the guards themselves are completely silent during prayer time, just so they will not be accused of interfering with detainee religious practices.

This barely scratches the surface of the extent to which the personnel at Gitmo are not only ensuring the health and welfare of the detainees — which the Deputy Commander of the Joint Task Force identifies as the mission — but also going out of their way to avoid even offending them. Yet the President and his supporters in Congress continue to press for the closure of this facility, perpetuating the mythology that has come to surround it.

Members of Congress are giving voice to 170,000 individuals who have shown their support for the Navy SEALs facing courts-martial. If more people were given the opportunity to visit Guantanamo Bay, they would be signing petitions by the tens of thousands on behalf of those serving there as well.

About the Author

Ben Lerner is Vice President for Government Relations at the Center for Security Policy in Washington, D.C.

Letter to the Editor View all comments (218) | Leave a comment Leave a comment

Ret. Marine| 3.12.10 @ 6:55AM

And somehow sanfran nanny and her ilk are trying to convince us that the CIA officials are lying to us.
My personal take on this bull-crap is they don't deserve any of it. They should be housed right smack inbetween a pig farm and the warriors from hell itself.
The politicians who advocate for these terrorist "rights" are themselves terrorist of the un-American types and as far as I see it they are the ones most deserving the sandwich between our fine warriors and the pigs, afterall, they have done more to this Country trying to destroy our way of life than all these little allah wannabe's combined. It sicken me to the core of my heart that the very people trying to kill us are being treated better than the very people they claim to represent seen in most cities governed by these demonrats and their corrupt party.
The mistake for most American's is they think all the bull-shit coming from a typical demonrats mouth is somehow the truth, could not be futher from the truth. I await a day when myself along with the Retired Officers Corps of these United States will be in this Nations capital with arrest warrents in hand for the entire lot of them, escecially the little o and his merry band of czars.
I pray these fine warriors from the SOG are allowed to state their case and prove beyound a shadow of anyone's doubt these allah lov'n demons are using our system, along with most of the demonrat party members power, against us.
I have no respect for these politician who would put American warrior's live's behind these head lopp'n demons for their own political gains. Every inroad for the terrorist, are a loss for an American citizen. Every demonrat party member lost to the head-loppers is a gain for those same American citizens.

Jeff| 3.12.10 @ 8:33AM

Well stated, you sir are a true patriot and thank you for your service to this nation! Keep posting your responses.

Inveterate Partisan| 3.12.10 @ 10:22AM

Jihadists deserve one fate. A bullet in the head.

Alan Brooks| 3.12.10 @ 11:50AM

Gitmo detainees have it better than hundreds of millions in third world cesspools.

Three hots and a cot aint the worst you can do. No taxes, free medical care, and the detainees are safer at Gitmo than we are on the outside. We should all be so misfortunate.

Ralph Novy| 3.12.10 @ 3:27PM

Nice use of understated sarcasm.

Alan Brooks| 3.12.10 @ 4:17PM

Dearie me, only ORGANIC falafels for you dear little jihadists at Gitmo. Your baclava is fresh from the kitchen.
Now, shall we chill your organic grape juice down to 39 or 38 degrees, Muhammad?

Muhammad: "Celsius or Fahrenheit?

Alan Brooks| 3.12.10 @ 7:21PM

Muhammad:
"white or red grape juice?"

This isn't merely a joke; Gitmo is clean, it is a fairly decent place be incarcerated, as the authorities don't want to give our enemies anymore excuses to razz us on our treatment of detainees. The govt can screw up a great deal, but Defense can only screw up so much.
You want me to be more specific? Ms. England and the tormenters at that ... location... in Iraq-- you know which one-- that will not be mentioned here. It was a fluke, and it was years ago.

Americans make mistakes, but they learn.

Alan Brooks| 3.12.10 @ 8:07PM

Sorry to keep answering my comments, but Drew's deviousness below is enraging, he is one smooth disingenuous operator.
quote unquote:
"[...] unjustly imprisoned for almost a decade [...]" Drew writes.
He thinks we're all half-a-faggot pushovers. As if the detainees are innocent Little Red Riding Hoods who are incarcerated for taking an innocent basket of IEDs to Grandma Obama's house.
I know it's not polite to complain so much, but these smooth heat-seekers like Drew think everybody is chump except them, that we'll fall for this sort of academic shit-sandwich because it is very erudite and carefully written, like a Ward Churchill essay.
Notice how he was careful to include choice morsels in bold, the little turd.
I really don't enjoy becoming enraged, but, please
take it in the ear, Drew. Nuts up your nose.

Thank you and have a nice day :)

Drew| 3.12.10 @ 12:47PM

Quote: I await a day when myself along with the Retired Officers Corps of these United States will be in this Nations capital with arrest warrents in hand for the entire lot of them

Excuse me, but that sounds like a lot like a military coup.

Secondly, for a retired Marine, you seem remarkably ignorant of the basics of military justice.

The SEAL operators are facing Court Martial for one very good reason: They ASKED for it. They had the option of going through a Captain's Mast, and accepting Non-judicial Punishment where warranted by the circumstances and their actions. The charges that have been brought against the SEALs were preferred by the chain of command - a group not normally known as lilly-livered liberals - and, most importantly were brought for alleged violation of orders.

Further, one has to point out the fact that - uncomfortable and expensive as the Court Martial process will be for the SEALs - at least they are getting their day in court. A priviledge denied to the Guantanamo Bay detainees, some of them for more than eight years. If one is unjustly imprisoned for almost a decade - as many of the Guantanamo prisoners have been - the quality of the meals, or the completeness of the library become somewhat irrelevant.

This sort of article, to say nothing of the responses, really gives lie to Conservatives claim of belief in Justice, Freedom, or even the US Constitution. You are saying that US troops be given a free pass, to commit whatever crimes they wish against humanity, the rules of Land Warfare (as enumerated in our own Field Manuals), and against the lawful orders of their military commanders. At the same time time, you claim that the United States military can, with no standard of evidence, procedure, or respect to International Law - imprison, without trial, anyone, anywhere in the world, pretty much forever.

You people need to look long and hard inside your conciences. Your position is one that advocates and promotes literally the worst kind of tyranny imaginable.

brian| 3.12.10 @ 1:00PM

.
Drew,
I don't think that high school grads or people that can read a newspaper are supposed to post comments at this site.
.

tailgunner| 3.12.10 @ 2:11PM

This whole ordeal started from an unsubstantiated complaint from a terrorist who, as part of his training, is INSTRUCTED to make false allegations of abuse and torture.

The chain of command should never have taken him seriously. That they did speaks volumes about the political correctness that has permeated the entire military, from Bagram to Baghdad to Fort Hood to Guantanamo Bay to the Pentagon.

Guantanamo detainees are treated, just like liberals demanded, as prisoners of war.

POW's do not receive a trial. Nor is there any limit on how long they can be held.

In actual fact, terror detainees, known also as unlawful enemy combatants, under the Geneva Conventions do not qualify for POW status.

They wear civilian clothing, hide behind or target innocents, and torture and murder enemy prisoners. Their very existence is a war crime.

Terrorists fall into the same Geneva category as spies and saboteurs.

The last time the US captured saboteurs, in WWII, they were tried and most of them were executed within two weeks.

Most if not all of the unlawful enemy combatants at Guantanamo deserve nothing more than a speedy trial and an even faster bullet.

linda| 3.12.10 @ 2:52PM

By supporting terrorist jihadis/terrorists is the same thing as supporting hate, and violence. If you support the jihadis then you support their agenda which is promoting violence against women and religious minorities, child rape and sodomy, and sloth. the Caliph Omar wrote, let the others do the work...exactly what the left is doing.

JP| 3.12.10 @ 3:22PM

"A priviledge denied to the Guantanamo Bay detainees, some of them for more than eight years. If one is unjustly imprisoned for almost a decade - as many of the Guantanamo prisoners have been - the quality of the meals, or the completeness of the library become somewhat irrelevant. "

Drew,
Prisoners of War do not get trials. These detainees are lucky that this 2010 and not 1942. FDR had 18 German submariners executed with no trial, no lawyers, nothing. And you pulled a fast saying these detainees are "unjustly held". Save the slogans for your MoveOn meetings. Save the "they were only sheppards minding thier own business when the the dastardly CIA captured them" shtick

BTW, the SEALS were given Captain's Mast for allegedly slapping the terrorist who was behind the murder of several US contractors in Fallujah. The terrorist in question, was captured in September. And of course he was given a lawyer. Following his training to a T, said terrorist issued a formal complaint through his lawyer. The SEALS CO issued non-judicial punishment for a crime that has only circumstantial evidence (it was the terrorist's word against the SEALs. There were no marks on the terrorist's face).

Drew| 3.12.10 @ 4:47PM

You are absolutely wrong in stating the SEALs (McCabe, Keefe, and Huertas) have already faced a Captain's Mast. They specifically refused that remedy - instead opting for Court Martial.

No: Prisoners of War do not get court martials or trials. Unless, of course, they are accused of committing War Crimes. In which case they are tried by Tribunals, at which they are informed of the charges against them, given access to legal defense, and tried in accordance to military law.

The German submariners who were executed in 1942 most definitely DID receive trial by military tribunals, at which they had defense lawyers.

See: http://www.fbi.gov/libref/hist.....i/nazi.htm

for details.

The prosecution was headed by Attorney General Frances Biddle and the Army Judge Advocate General, Major General Myron C. Cramer. Defense counsel included Colonel Kenneth C. Royall (later Secretary of War under President Truman) and Major Lausen H. Stone (son of Harlan Fiske Stone, the Chief Justice of the U.S. Supreme Court).

You are entitled to your own opinions. You are not entitled to your own facts.

Jonesy| 3.12.10 @ 6:51PM

What are you, "Drew" baby, a frigging jihadi lawyer? Scumsucking freak.

Brian Mc| 3.13.10 @ 8:13AM

I have a solution to the whole issue. It requires one ocean-going cargo carrier, with some slight modification. One inch steel rods, spaced eight inches apart and spot-welded across the top for a roof in order to provide adequte ventilation. One C-130 Hercules to transport the carrier to 20,000 feet over the Atlantic Ocean where it is unceremoniously kicked out the back of the cargo bay.

...and the next morning, we awoke to find Gitmo empty...where did everybody go?

tailgunner| 3.22.10 @ 10:47PM

A 'Captain's Mast' is not a trial. It is a hearing before the Commanding Officer who alone decides guilt or innocence by his own judgment.

It should be noted that the vast majority of those guilty of the offense charged CHOOSE CAPTAIN'S MAST. This is because no punishments thus awarded appear on a person's criminal record.

Conversely, those who request courts-martial do so because of a STRONG BELIEF IN THEIR INNOCENCE. They are willing to risk a criminal conviction in order to be fully exonerated.

The SEALs have called the Navy's bluff. Now the prosecution must present a totally unreliable 'victim' who will be sliced and diced by any first year student lawyer...and they will be embarrassed for initiating this farce to begin with.

Bubba| 6.22.10 @ 6:52PM

Drew, it seems as though you have an axe to grind, but don't really know how UCMJ/courts martial work.

When the highest form of non judicial punishment (NJP) is offered by a commander, as here, it is a way out of judicial (court martial) punishment – the accused has the option to take the NJP and avoid going to court martial and receiving a legal sentence IF convicted. That is the only choice, and is why commanders use Captain's Mast/Articles 15 sparingly. It's embarrassing to the commander if the accused wins his court martial and it prevents the accused from appealing to it unless he is confident in his case.

If one accepts the NJP, it is placed on your record and is usually a career-ender. Alternatively, the accused can REFUSE the NJP and go to court martial and face the legal system at its finest (F. Lee Bailey once said of all courts in the world, he would take the U.S. military's court martial system to be tried under for himself due to its protections and fairness).

An honorable man chooses this route when he is innocent, even if the potential punishment is more severe being judicial, though a conviction is always a career ender.

Please do your homework next time and stop making it seem like the SEALs asked for a court martial when it was a forced hand. Then again, if it was purposeful on your part to misrepresent the nature of their so-called "choice," you yourself are not honorable. And there is no redress for that.

Ralph Novy| 3.12.10 @ 3:28PM

Hear, hear.

Alan Brooks| 3.12.10 @ 7:44PM

Drew,
I don't like to lose my temper, but you are so gratuitously, and rotely, unfair, it makes me ashamed to have been raised by a naive liberal family. But they were only pollyannish, you are deliberately hiding-- like Chomsky, Ward Churchill, and their ilk-- behind analytical objectivity.
You know very well most of the Gitmo detainees are guilty of many of what they are charged with, and are being treated reasonably well given the circumstances. Where are prisoners being treated better? Only in a few nations, and in the region of Scandinavia. But ALL those nations are under our ("our" includes NATO) protective umbrella. Besides, to digress, social democratic Scandinavia is all white, so Scandinavians cannot claim to be truly pluralistic (O, and just wait until they inundated with foreign workers as their population ages).
Someone of your intelligence carping on Gitmo enrages me-- you are remarkably ungrateful turd, and I wish your misguided & disingenuous causes the very worst. Yourself as well; now, forgiveness is important-- so I will forgive when you are dead, you low class shit-eating fake intellectual, you Chomskyite phony.
Not to harm your wittle bitty self-esteem, but you are reprehensible and it is shameful that I was once as "progressive" as you; but thankfully not as ungrateful.
So fuck you, Drew. And BTW, drop dead as well, please. It would be greatly appreciated.

Lullaby's, Legends and Lies| 3.12.10 @ 8:13PM

Alan: Does this guy owe you money or something? Gee-whiz!! I haven't seen you go off on somebody like that in,... well,.. I don't think I've ever seen you go off on somebody like that before. I'd appreciate it, if you'd drop dead!! Ouch!!

Alan Brooks| 3.12.10 @ 10:03PM

"Alan: Does this guy owe you money or something? Gee-whiz!! I haven't seen you go off on somebody like that in,... well,.. I don't think I've ever seen you go off on somebody like that before. I'd appreciate it, if you'd drop dead!! Ouch!! "

Fuck him. He is the worst of the lot--
re-read what he wrote.
Somebody nail him good so he wont blog at AS again.

Alan Brooks| 3.12.10 @ 8:25PM

From the devious itty bitty weasel Drew:
"You are saying that US troops be given a free pass, to commit whatever crimes they wish against humanity, the rules of Land Warfare... At the same time time, you claim that the United States military can... imprison, without trial, anyone, anywhere in the world, pretty much forever....Your position is one that advocates and promotes literally the worst kind of tyranny imaginable."
Drew is the worst blogger at AS.
Don't want to go into detail, but my Dad. however liberal and fooplish he was, did the correct thing when he was in the Army Air Force in WWII: he hurt the sort of people we are fighting in WWIV (the Cold War was WWIII), very badly-- to make sure it would not happen again. And we pushed the Soviets out of Eastern Europe later, without a hot war. If it were up the Germans, they would still be here.

Sam| 3.13.10 @ 3:43AM

Well said Mr. Drew!

There obviously must have been some good evidence against the SEALS- otherwise, the Navy leadership (who know far more than we do about military policy and prosecutions) would not have brought charges.

The fact that many conservatives feel the SEALS shouldn't even be TRIED is a JOKE. It's one thing to argue that they be pardoned or their actions condoned. But to say that they should be exempt from any trial is an argument that conservatives need to drop and drop fast!

Alan Brooks| 3.13.10 @ 11:25PM

Drew knows very well waterboarding and other tortures were anomalies, and now that Obama is president there is no chance of torture. America has its faults, but being inhumane isn't one of them-- with so many ambulance chasers, how could we be nearly as inhumane as we are accused of being?
What is the ratio of attorneys to detainees?
What enrages me is I met Chomsky in '87 and it was apparent right away he was trying to pull the wool over my eyes. There are too many of Chomsky's books to read; but I did read Ward Churchill's 'Chickens Coming Home To Roost' or whatever the unimaginatively-marxoid title is. The book is exhaustively researched info-mining proving that an academic is perhaps the worst sort of con artist.
The prime motivation? if I wouldn't let my liberal family trick me, I'm not going to let the Chomskys, Churchills, and Drews do so, no matter how many factoids they dump on us. I don't trust ANYONE, especially them. These tricksters deal in 20 percent factoids, 80 percent rope-a-dope.
The good news is these people end up tricking themselves because they start believing their own rhetoric, so THEY end up becoming their own worst suckers. They want to screw and they end up screwing themselves in the head.
That's the nice thing about democracy: everyone eventually gets what they deserve.

Ret. Marine| 3.13.10 @ 9:24AM

Let me first thank you for getting some of your facts correct...on one point, these terrorist are not a part of any organized fighting force for a Nation or State, they are in fact WAR CRIMINALS, and as such are not even qualified to anything other than a WAR CRIMINAL status under the international laws, as defined by the international laws you were so quick to point out, and as such do not, again by the international laws even warrent a place to reside ( in such confort) let alone be treated better than our warriors. They are not entitled to any trial, let alone a fair one, dipstick. Yes these warriors ( the N. seals) did request as you stated but, not by chance, they knew they had a right to face their accusers, otherwise proven in most cases to be outright liars for their cult, We recovered their manuals for use against our system, i.e. lie to the press and others claiming they were tortured, ignorant of the basics of military justice, please explain, where do you infer I even mentioned anything of military justice? I did not claim to give our fellows a free pass to anything illiegal of injust let alone for any crime, once again refer to their manuals as to your reply. Thank you for putting the very words in my mouth that your side so graciously put in the mouths of many idiots who think as you do...it's just too bad you don't have a clue as to some of your remarks. sorry but, I'm not easily confused as you seem to be...Oh I know it must be so hurtful for your types to hear a person who actually served in this Nations Military for over thirty years, with honor, a sense of duty, a responsibility to do so with the kindness of God's purpose for me,

"Excuss me this sounds like a militery Coup" excuss me, it is nothing of the sort. I understanad it might be hard for your types to understand but, I swore an Oath to Defend the Constitution against all enemies, foreign and domestic, no one ever relieved me of this responsibility. As an Officer of these United States, and by the way obtained my Commissions by consent of the United States Congress, I take seriously my right and duty to protect the citizens of these United States against even your type, ignorant as to why the U.S. Congress issues such commissions to ignorant types such as me. I owe you nothing of an explaination if you are too confused to understand why I wrote what I did. Afterall, this is just one's man's opinion, "denied their day in court" this is just plain false, they have been placed in a category as an enemy combatent, do you even understand the parimeters of this catagory, I think not, if you did you would not have used this as an excuss for their treatment. We the People owe them nothing but a bullet right between the brainpan group. It's real simple Drew, they are here, and in many countries to illegally kill and destroy our way of life. You must be on their side with such remarks, I hope and pray for your souls' sake you don't mean the things you expell out of that pie-hole of a brain, least you may forget there was a civil war once in this Nations history, and even then we had individuals such as yourself that could not distinguise right from wrong. On a few points your comment was right if you are in fact a patriot, but, as you penned, I think not. Beware, sedition laws might soon be enforced, don't get yourself entraped

Alan Brooks| 3.14.10 @ 5:14PM

I can't stand Drew because someone of his intelligence knows v. well now that Obama is president the chances of detainees being mistreated is extremely low. Once in awhile a detainee will be mistreated, yet most of them will be treated better than the police treat us on the outside. Drew is using Gitmo's past as Abu Ghraib was used in the mid '00s.
Some jihadists will surrender in the future just so's they can be shipped to Gitmo or wherever the new location is. By the time Obama's second term draws to a close, the detainees will be better off than homeless people in Stockholm, Oslo, Copenhagen, Helsinki, and 'Frisco.
Seriously! I would like to eat as well as detainees are going to be eating five or six years from now.

Jon B| 3.13.10 @ 2:33PM

Please excuse my posts below, I was abused as a child, and have gone through life with my head shoved so far up my ass I've installed a peephole in my bellybutton so I can see where I'm going. Beacause I'm really a useless piece of shit, noone will give me a real job, so I've signed on with George Soros trolling around making these stupid posts. It really sucks, but G.S. pays me.

Once again, please ignore me. Sucks to be me, think I'll go hahg myself

Jon B| 3.13.10 @ 2:35PM

Oh, and sometimes I go by the name Drew.

Jon| 3.15.10 @ 1:50PM

you are not very good at it anyway.

coal carrier| 3.12.10 @ 7:14AM

With the current structure being enforced by the Obama administration, no intelligence information will be gathered after the captives are Mirandized. Therefore, when shot at on the battlefield, shoot to kill. Take no captives. Case closed.

Alan Brooks| 3.12.10 @ 10:13PM

"no intelligence information will be gathered after the captives are Mirandized. "

Just tell us what Law Skool Drew went to. Look at his... stuff... layer on layer of obfuscation. He makes Ward Churchill appear like a hi skool grad.
Wish I'd never heard of politics; it's hate, it's revenge.

Alan Brooks| 3.12.10 @ 10:37PM

... Drew got a head start, he was writing that stuff in
Pre-Law. I mean, he doesn't just want us to bend over backwards; he expects us to bend over forwards.

He is rough trade!

Karibou Kid| 3.12.10 @ 7:38AM

Kinda makes it pretty obvious whose side chairman obamao and his minions are on - and it ain't ours.

Copyleft| 3.12.10 @ 10:12AM

Quite true--he's siding with the Constitution and the rule of law, and you kooks on the fringe right are as far distant from that as possible.

By the way, isn't the military supposed to be all about "discipline" and "honor"? So why are you making excuses for someone who violated military rules, and two other guys who dishonored themselves by lying about it in a cover-up?

Never mind the fact that Guantanamo detainees (not "terrorists," mind you--because nothing's been proven, and a sizable number have already been released because they were INNOCENT) do, in fact, have rights under the Constitution. Marveling at how some measure of due process is being observed and shaking one's head in dismay at the fact is a sure sign of someone who's been effectively terrorized.

You folks who oppose due process--the terrorists have beaten you. REAL Americans will stand or fall by American principles, and refuse to throw them away even in the face of America-hating fanatics. Or terrorists, either.

Nick| 3.12.10 @ 10:36AM

Military tribunals ARE due process, brainiac.

They have been prescribed in law since the War for Independence.

Jon| 3.12.10 @ 10:44AM

This is how you describe the situtaion of US Servicemen who have not been found guity:

"So why are you making excuses for someone who violated military rules, and two other guys who dishonored themselves by lying about it in a cover-up? "

This is how you describe the situation of Muslims at Guantanamo:

"Never mind the fact that Guantanamo detainees (not "terrorists," mind you--because nothing's been proven."

This says a whole lot about you. But then, we really already know who you are.

Lullaby's, Legends and Lies| 3.12.10 @ 7:20PM

"By the way, isn't the military supposed to be all about "discipline" and "honor"?"

It is, and by instantly believing a story that one of our "enemies" told, over the word of our "Great" soldiers, just shows where your loyalty really lies. You have no honor, and I'm sure even less discipline, how dare you?

Jon & Doorgunner: Great slap downs!! Copycrap will not respond to you two, because you'll both make her look like a fool!! And she is!!

Alan Brooks| 3.12.10 @ 8:33PM

"Copycrap will not respond to you two, because you'll both make her look like a fool!! And she is!!"

I apologize to all you conservatives here for at one time being a libtard like copylaughed and that tiny little worm Drew, he is cleverer than Toddard ever was. What an ugly world of hate and dishonesty this is.
And worst of all, we will have to read propaganda from these fake "progressives" our whole lives.

Doorgunner| 3.12.10 @ 1:40PM

In your second paragraph you damn, without "due process" three Seals; in your third paragraph you assert constitutional rights for foreign combatants and demand "due process" for them.

And thusly do you show your true colors. You truly are a piece of ....

JP| 3.12.10 @ 3:30PM

"By the way, isn't the military supposed to be all about "discipline" and "honor"? So why are you making excuses for someone who violated military rules, and two other guys who dishonored themselves by lying about it in a cover-up?"

Cover what up, precisely? And I suppose you have no problem with the terrorist in question. He planned and executed the ambush of the civilian contractors. They gunned down the contractors, burned them alive and then hung them in effigy. The terrorist was lucky the SEALs didn't have an "accident" and get pushed out of the chopper. The man in question made an allegation without evidence. I suppose that's you idea of justice.

Ralph Novy| 3.12.10 @ 3:32PM

Copyleft:

You wrote "... you kooks on the fringe right..."

Just a suggestion, if you really want to persuade other people and "get to 'yes'":

Don't start out memos to your boss with "Lookee here, shithead...."

lol

Supportive intentions, ok?

Sam| 3.13.10 @ 3:46AM

Couldn't have said it better myself, Copyleft. The fact that conservatives are okay with becoming like the terrorists is sad. The terrorists certainly win when they force supposedly patriotic Americans to forsake our law and Constitution to descend to their level,

Galen| 3.12.10 @ 8:04AM

Drat! I was looking forward to drafting lawyers to send overseas to mirandize our foes.

Jon B| 3.12.10 @ 8:13AM

There's the article, then there's reality...

Guantanamo Bay
Jeff Colman, a 1970 history graduate from the University of Wisconsin-Madison, gave a free public talk March 9 about his experience representing prisoners held at the U.S. Naval Base at Guantánamo Bay, Cuba.

He volunteered in June of 2005 after seeing an ad in the New York Times. It took 4 months to get security clearance. Colman's Chicago law firm, Jenner & Block has represented 19 men, 13 have been released. Colman has represented 4 men-3 have been released. Originally signed-up to seek habeas Corpus relief for the prisoners, non political. Extensive law history in Illinois, Clinton nominee held up by Ashcroft: nothing prepared him for Guantanamo Bay. Took days each time after leaving Guantanamo before he could speak w/o suffering from depression. Speaker was 1 of 5 Habeas lawyers invited to the White House to inform Obama’s White House council.

What is Guantanamo? How does it differ? How important is the rule of law?

Disclaimers: Bush admin thwarted representation in the most concerted efforts imaginable. Everything he did was restrained in the most substantial ways he could’ve ever imagined. Culminated when BU$H official, Cully Stimson, invoked corporate CEO’s to not hire the law firms representing the detainees. Under extreme restraint of what he says today. Everything his clients say is classified. Everything he says must be declassified including love messages from detainees to spouses.

Lawyers flew down in post WW2 planes, 3-1/2 hour flights. He visited Guantanamo Bay 10 times-a City of 15,000. 1-11-2002 first prisoners transported, most were arrested for bounties. Detainees aged from 15 to 80 years old. BU$H admin claimed all were arrested on battlefields by US forces-reality: 5% arrested on battlefield, 86% arrested by Pakistan or the Northern alliance, 8% are al Qaeda, 55% found not to have engaged in any hostile acts. 100% labeled as enemy combatants. 100% are Muslim men.

Total of 800 prisoners in 7 years. Estimates 600/700 are completely innocent. Of the 800 “killers, worst of the worst” held, 500 released by BU$H, all after 2, 3, or 4 years. 240 still there, 60 currently cleared for release.

Only 2 men convicted at Guantanamo, David Hicks-material support for terrorism, released in Australia. Salim Hamdam-material support, 5-1/2 years, time served, released. Only 20 were charged before military commissions.

Definition of enemy combatants: part of or supporting the Taliban/al Qaeda forces. Federal judges found 23 out of 27 cases were not enemy combatants. One "enemy combatant" held was a Taliban cook who spent 3-1/2 years at Guantanamo while the Taliban’s chief spokesman is currently attending Yale.

Of the 19 clients, 13 have been released, totally innocent men (Colman currently has sole client left, and last Iraqi held). One released after 4 years 10 months was a school principal, arrested in Afghanistan while doing 30 days of charity work in an orphanage. Never accused of anything. Guantanamo commander Jeff Miller, before he was sent to Abu Graib to implement successful interrogation techniques in 2003, had cleared the principal for release in 2003, but was still held for a couple years afterwards. Many detainee’s refuse to see lawyers. Some refuse women lawyers. Some refuse to look at the women lawyers, who are forced to face the walls during interrogations.

Most early info came from 2nd Muslim Chaplain sent to Guantanamo, James Yee, West Point, Islamic US officer. From 1-11-2002, until summer of 04: no lawyers, almost no Red Cross access, total isolation. Sometimes held in open-air underground pits, with a tin roof, 48 men in each until 2005. Made from old shipping containers.

7/29/2004 FBI memorandum: men left 18 to 24 hours or more chained down in fetal positions, room temp shaking from cold, or well over 100 degrees, defecated and/or urinated on themselves. For the 1st 3 years: no communications with their families. No reading materials. Now, no Bible, Shakespeare allowed. His one remaining client has been allowed 2 phone calls with family since 2005-twice attempted suicide, was originally turned in for a ransom. Most have been there over 7 years. Extraordinary isolation. Still interrogating them after 7 years.

For 6 years, US courts have struggled with one question (2002 to 6/2008): does the DC courts have the jurisdiction to hear the cases of the prisoners? NYT’s-2004 said prisoners had the right to pursue habeas Corpus. In 2004 US SC said yes, in 2006 the US SC stripped it. June 2008, US SC ruled Constitutional right to habeas corpus.

Lt commander William Keebler, never voted for a Dem in his life, Christian, conservative, condemns Guantanamo in the strongest terms, & Lt. Colonel Darrel Vandeveld: 2 of 7 who were fired or resigned from Guantanamo posts because of stated objections.

Due to torture, positive world opinion of the US is gone, gone, gone: opposite of previous (see Jane Mayers/Meyers? book).

Detainee families have expressed incredible thanks for lawyers involvement: gratitude, appreciation. All said, “Thank you for what you’re doing, we realize that not all Americans think what’s happening is right.”

jon| 3.12.10 @ 10:55AM

That was wonderful fiction.

Ralph Novy| 3.12.10 @ 3:37PM

And you would know it's fiction because......?

Personal experience? Share.

FOX News? Re-evaluate.

Gut belief? Self-examine.

Jon| 3.15.10 @ 1:45PM

Hello, where do you expect I can find sources and official texts that refute one specific lunatics ramblings?

Shouldn't you be a little more, or even equally, concerned with getting sources from the person making the claims?

Get a life. Or at least a clue.

jon| 3.15.10 @ 3:21PM

I take that back. I am sooo sorry Ralph. After hours of searching, I finally found concrete documentation that refutes JB's following claim:

"Detainee families have expressed incredible thanks for lawyers involvement: gratitude, appreciation. All said, “Thank you for what you’re doing, we realize that not all Americans think what’s happening is right.”"

NOT!

Jon B| 3.12.10 @ 7:51PM

That, sir delusional neocon, is the truth...

Powell said that he wouldn't have agreed with the decision to go to war had he known then that the data given to him showing that Iraqi dictator Saddam Hussein had weapons of mass destruction was created by the Bush administration, and not US intelligence agencies.

Powell said the crimes at Guantanamo has also given "cover to a lot of really bad people around the world who say: 'Hey, don't lecture me, look at what you're doing.'

Those darn honest true Conservatives like Colin Powell, always getting in the way of the neocon liars...People like you have brought the GOP down, which is why I left.

Alan Brooks| 3.12.10 @ 8:46PM

"That was wonderful fiction"

And we are going to have to read this garbage our whole lives. The poor little detainees; the poor little Khmer Rouges. This is a world of hate, there's no purpose in denying it any more.
Drew is the worst of the lot, re-read his verbiage, he is one slick Chomskyite, sharper than Jon B., who merely shovels out factoids.
Let's contact Chomsky and say, "please hire Drew, he is a slickier intellectual con artist than even you."

JP| 3.12.10 @ 3:38PM

What nonsense. But it was a nice copy and paste job.

No mention of the hundreds of released terrorists who went straight back to the battlefield. I remember one such terrorist, who had his leg blown off in a fire fight with Rangers. He was sent to Gitmo, he recieved a $75,ooo prostetic leg. After 4 years he was released and returned to Afghanistan, where he was killed 2 months later during a fire fight

Nick| 3.12.10 @ 5:35PM

JP,

Did we get the leg back?

Alan Brooks| 3.12.10 @ 8:52PM

"But it was a nice copy and paste job."

You got it exactly, JP.
And I don't care what anyone says, we WILL be reading & hearing this blame-America-first trash our whole lives.
It changes very slowly.

Jon B| 3.13.10 @ 5:14AM

I took the notes at the talk, Alan. They're my notes. Crediting illegal policies for causing more damage to America is hardly blame. It looks like you aren't into taking responsibility for your own actions, so you extrapolate that into a support for recklessness in policy as well.

Most of the people in the Middle East who signed up to fight our troops that we have detained say they signed up because they heard about the torture of innocent civilians, often people they knew and even family members. But then you'd have to actually BE for America to understand why this is an issue.

Lullaby's, Legends and Lies| 3.13.10 @ 10:59AM

Most of the American Soldiers serving today, signed up to fight the Islamic Jihadists, to protect innocent American civilians (so which is more noble to you?). Don't answer that, it was a rhetorical question!! This Islamic War has been going on for 1,400 years now, and it finally found its way to our shores, and you want to look the other way? Go right ahead, but I won't!! If you want to get on your knees five times a day, bowing to Mecca, go right ahead, but I won't!! You just go right ahead and keep blaming America for everything, but I won't!! Aren't you running late for afternoon prayers at your Mosque? We're the good guys, (America that is) the John Wayne's of the World, and it's a shame that you'll never see us that way.

victor| 3.13.10 @ 11:53AM

Jon B:
"Most of the people in the Middle East who signed up to fight our troops that we have detained say they signed up because they heard about the torture of innocent civilians"

And you know this how?
You interviewed them and have their personal testimonies?
These Jihadists have been fighting against the west for hundreds of years.
Since mohammed, as a matter of fact.

victor| 3.13.10 @ 7:50PM

Jon B:
"I took the notes at the talk, Alan. They're my notes."

Notes reflect the biases of the note-taker.
How about a transript or taped footage?
No offense, but you really cannot be trusted as you take the word of jihadis over regular Americans.
On second thought, take all the offense you want.

Jon B| 3.14.10 @ 1:52PM

I wrote everything down, everything he said, good or bad, because I'm a student of life instead of a shill for a political party like most people here. Your comment reflects your bias in reality. Your deep seated biases, perhaps, against anything that alters the delusional world you live in. Rather than seek the truth, you seek to discredit the truth.

Alan Brooks| 3.13.10 @ 11:37PM

"It looks like you aren't into taking responsibility for your own actions"

You are a factoid-miner, Jon B; why don't YOU take responsibility for your dissembling talking points? Where is there a nation that treats prisoners more decently than America?: only a few Western European nations. I've been all over Scandinavia, and it is a good place-- but that is because of its homogenity, what is called racism in impolite company. Scandics are WHITEY!
I am Churchillian in outlook, I think America is bad, but better than most of the other countries. As far as I know, only the low countries and the Scandics are any better.
But not for long! people of color will seep into N. Europe and make life more diverse, more pluralistic for the white-bread natives. I mean you don't want whitey running everything, do you, Jon?
Scandinavia

Alan Brooks| 3.13.10 @ 11:48PM

... some day those whiteys in Scandinavia can enjoy the excitement that America has known for so long of people from third world cesspools;
the tired, huddled masses, yearning to breathe free,

who will be movin' on up
to the North Side,
to the de-luxe apartments in Northern Europe.
Movin' on up
to the North side,
They will fin'ly get a piece of the PIE!

JP| 3.12.10 @ 4:39PM

"For 6 years, US courts have struggled with one question (2002 to 6/2008): does the DC courts have the jurisdiction to hear the cases of the prisoners?"

And in 2005, the Senate stripped the courts of thier jurisdiction concerning Gitmo (BTW, the Senate has this authority). Too bad the GOP led Senate lacked the guts to call the courts out on this. What was that famous quip President Jackson said about the courts ability to enforce thier rulings?

Jon B| 3.12.10 @ 8:13AM

There's the article, then there's reality...

What is Guantanamo? How does it differ? How important is the rule of law?

Due to torture, positive world opinion of the US is gone, gone, gone: opposite of previous (see Jane Mayers/Meyers? book).

Nick| 3.12.10 @ 8:30AM

Pay no attention to Jon B's comments.

He believes President Reagan gave the Soviets $250 billion in '87 and $175 billion in '88.

Congress spent a total of $1.oo trillion in '87 and another trillion in '88.

He lives in fantasy land.

Jon B| 3.12.10 @ 8:32AM

I wonder how you're going to feel once you realize what I said is true?

Nick| 3.12.10 @ 8:41AM

I looked it up. It didn't happen, Einstein.

Give me one source. Just one.

And not one of your drug induced flashbacks.

Nick| 3.12.10 @ 8:46AM

Also, if you believe we gave our enemy of 45 years a quarter of our budget in '87, you are DELUSIONAL!

Jon B| 3.12.10 @ 7:56PM

I admit I made a huge mistake, and it took me awhile to catch it. Reagan gave Russia $425 MILLION, not billion. With today's spending, I misplaced the actual amount because $425 million was a big deal in the 80's more-so than now. However, Reagan did give Russia $425 million, and if you REALLY looked it up (you didn't you're a liar) you could've corrected me on it. Instead you lied because it makes you feel good.

Nick| 3.12.10 @ 8:20PM

Jon B,

You're the moron who "made the mistake", and it's my fault?

Typical bleeding heart liberal. Blame everyone else, but themselves.

Again, what's the source? Or, are we supposed to rely on your flawed, drug induced flashbacks again.

How many of us did you berate for not remembering what was "on all the Networks"? You "remembered" it quite well, as I recall your other false posts.

All of your posts are marxist propoganda, and not worth reading. I'll make sure to go back and correct your lies in other threads.

I know gloating is not attractive, but it sure is fun.

Jon B| 3.13.10 @ 5:17AM

Yeah it's your fault scumbag. You throw around labels the way a candy packaging machine does, and with the same depth of thinking. Talk about a moron, you have no idea what Marxism is in the first place, which is why you falsely accuse others of it. To you, it's a word that signifies your own hatred, and nothing else. Why is that?

Nick| 3.13.10 @ 7:34AM

Didn't you try to lecture me about Christian virtues?

Scumbag? Nice. Real Christian, there.

Why don't you like the marxist label?

Where's that source?

Nick| 3.13.10 @ 12:34AM

I love this one: "[...] you could've corrected me on it."

I DID!
Multiple times.
So did others. Someone even asked you if you could be thinking of "millions" instead of "billions."

You replied with gems like this: "I wonder how you're going to feel once you realize what I said is true?"

I fell great Jon B.
How do you feel? Tee-hee!

Nick| 3.13.10 @ 12:45AM

"[...] and it took me awhile to catch it."

YOU caught it? I don't think so.

Why can't you admit it was me? I was the one who pointed out that you were falsely claiming that President Reagan gave the Soviets 1/4 of 1987 spending.

Are you really this petty? You can't even give me my proper attribution?

Jon B| 3.13.10 @ 5:18AM

Well here's the difference Nick. I'm telling ythe truth, and you're a partisan hack/bald faced liar. And that makes you feel so good you brag about it, lol. What a joke!

Nick| 3.13.10 @ 7:36AM

You wouldn't know the truth if it hit you in your extremely dimwitted head.

victor| 3.13.10 @ 8:45PM

Hey Nick, that's his problem. He got hit with the Truth one too many times, so he's a little touched in the head.

Nick| 3.14.10 @ 2:12PM

Hi, Victor and Margie!

Let's keep hitting him with the Truth, shall we?

Hope all is well, God Bless!

Jon B Lies| 3.12.10 @ 9:59AM

You are a delusional fool, quit wasting space here with your inane foolish comments. I don't care what that jerk off lawyer said because he is a liar just like you.

Jon B| 3.12.10 @ 7:53PM

You're right. I am completely delusional. I thought people here were Americans with functioning brains. That's completely delusional on my part, and I apologize for that. Carry on into the abyss of you self serving pomposity.

Eric Cartman| 3.12.10 @ 8:11PM

Keith Olbermann! I thought you had a show to do - well, for a bit longer, anyway.

Alan Brooks| 3.12.10 @ 8:56PM

"Pay no attention to Jon B's comments."
Jon (let's hope is not a self-hating masochistic Jewish person such as Chomsky) B. is dumping transparent factoids on us. I read them, they are out-of-context nitpicks.
But nail Drew first, he is the cleverest.

Jon B| 3.13.10 @ 5:19AM

Alan Brooks, the man who advocates advanced recruiting techniques for al Qaeda. You're a POS.

Alan Brooks| 3.13.10 @ 11:55PM

"Alan Brooks, the man who advocates advanced recruiting techniques for al Qaeda. You're a POS."

What is your beef? People of color, as I'll be saying for the rest of my life, will continue to migrate into
America and Europe, while Saudi Arabia and a few other Islamic nations can keep who they want to keep out of their feudalistic fiefdoms, out. Being an ultra-authoritarian nation means never having to say you are sorry.

victor| 3.13.10 @ 8:41PM

Alan:
"But nail Drew first, he is the cleverest."

Probably better looking than Jon B.

I hear Drew got Mister Congeniality in the Mr. Trolliplotan contest.

Alan Brooks| 3.14.10 @ 5:02PM

'Probably better looking than Jon B. "

Drew would probably enjoy it if we all nailed him..
I cant stand him because someone of his intelligence knows v. well now that Obama is president the chances of Gitmo detainees being mistreated is extremely low. Once in awhile, a detainee will be mistreated; yet most of them will be treated better than the police treat us on the outside.
By the time Obama's second term draws to a close, the detainees will be better off than homeless people in Stockholm, Oslo, and Copenhagen, Helsinki, and 'Frisco.

Eric Cartman| 3.12.10 @ 9:16AM

*Sob* I, I, I *Sniffle* I am so upset! *Snork* Jon B, thank you for posting all this terrible information *Snorfle* I can't believe we interrogated these poor, *Sniff* innocent, *Sniff* Muslim, terrorists this way! *Sniffle* NO SHAKESPEARE?! Oh, godddddddddddd NOOOOOOOOOO! *Blubber!" And they were cold AND hot during these interrogations?! How could we not supply the a"Trane XL20i Heat Pump with its two compressors: one for milder weather and a second larger compressor for those extremely hot days. It’s like having two units in one!" (Energy Star Rated) with a humidity setting! *Baaahhhaaaaaaa! Sniffle* And how dare we offer woman lawyers! It's barbaric! Those women with their breasts and stuff! Who wants to look at that? *Weep Sniffle* Where's Representative Massa when you need him, oh godddddddd! And tell me this isn't true! " Sometimes held in open-air underground pits, with a tin roof, 48 men in each until 2005. Made from old shipping containers." Not the same shipping containers Chinese stuff themselves into to sneak into our country! Where would they plug in the TV? *Burble Sniff* Well, you have convinced me *Sniffle*. I say we let them all into the U.S. and give them welfare benefits and places to live and chemistry sets. Where do you live, by the way?

Nick| 3.12.10 @ 9:31AM

Mr. Carman,

As usual, Ha-ha-ha-ha!

Are you in the HVAC field too? (The Trane reference.)

Eric Cartman| 3.12.10 @ 10:47AM

Thank you - he's a putz, no? Um, come from a construction family.

Alan Brooks| 3.12.10 @ 9:09PM

"NO SHAKESPEARE?!"

Cat Stevens is English as well, isn't he? Too bad the oppwessed wittle Jihadists aren't allowed to listen to The Best Of Cat Stevens (we are more civilized than they, we'll exclude the throwaways songs).
Here's a good one:
"Moaning has bwoken,
like the first mo-o-aning.
Bomb in his panties,
innocent little boy.
Poor wittle punky,
an oppwessed victim like all the re-e-e-est.
Three hots and a cot for the punk, he can't help being DUMB."
(piano glissandos).

Eric Cartman| 3.12.10 @ 10:44AM

*Sniff* Jon B, I am interested in these *Sniffle* woman lawyers that we tried to force on these *Sniff* innocent terrorists *sniff*. They weren't the type of woman lawyer that comes in and walks over with her long, shapely legs made even longer by black, thin strapped, high-heels. Making her hips sway just so and at an angle that highlights her femininity. She comes in and sits down across from you, her hair pulled back to reveal her slender neck and fine jaw line. Wisps of her auburn hair lightly touching her delicate face as the sun shines from behind her, making her hair seem like a halo.

She begins to speak and you notice her pouty, full red lips with that slight and inviting smile. Her Southern accent emphasizes her friendly ways as she reaches across to touch your hand and sooth your worries. Her perfect teeth are like pearls and her green eyes sparkle like clover covered in morning dew. She wears just the right amount of make-up. A string of pearls lies gracefully around her neck, with two small pearl earrings gracing her small lobes.

You look down and notice her neck line gives way to her soft cleavage, accented by her black lace push-up brassiere peeking out from her white shirt and gray, Armani business suit. She wears a scent, but you can't make it out. Something soft, but not intrusive. She laughs with a slight mischievousness and shakes her head the way that women do to show they are receptive to your advances and open to adventure.

NOT THAT type of woman lawyer?! Tell me, Jon B, did our rotten government torture these poor, poor Muslims this way? Those BASTARDS! How dare they! Jon B, we need to tell the world about these evil practices. And I for one would like to talk to one of these women lawyers! I would like to get to the bottom of this as soon as possible! Tell, me, do you have a number I can call to arrange a meeting. Say at a nice, bistro for a glass of chardonnay and a light lunch. Maybe a dinner and a show after work, or just a simple walk along the river under the moon lit sky. Something like that. Even if it took me years to get at the truth, I am volunteering my time and body for this dangerous mission.

oof oof| 3.12.10 @ 5:44PM

Stop that, you'll offending the good Muslim senesibilities by tempting them with these infidel whores. Please can't you just waterboard them, it's much more humane.

oof oof

Mohamed Osama| 3.12.10 @ 12:30PM

Hello Jon B

Thank you for your thoughtful postings about my Brothers who are detained in the Evil One's Guantanamo Bay torture chambers. They are truly suffering at the hands of the Evil Americans - that is what we call you now. We used to call you A Really Great Guy, but now that you are torturing innocent Muslims, we call you Evil American, or Evil One, or A Really Evil Guy, or simply Bushies!

But not you. You and your friends are truly great men (we don't recognize women except as brood cows, sorry)

But I digress. I come to you today to award you an, um, uh, an award! Yes, that is it. And not just any award. We award you this vest! See? It's the traditional, um, Vest of the Brave! Yes, that is it. Vest of the Brave.

See? It is made from gold lame' fabric with these, um silver buttons. What? Oh, yes, they do look like little batteries, but they are buttons! And it is sewed with this extra heavy-duty thread to symbolize your strength! What's that? Um, well, it may look like wire, but it is Muslim Brave Vest thread. It is only used in making Vests of the Brave.

As you can see, it is festooned with pockets of, um, Bravery Packs! Yes, that is it, Bravery Packs. They may make the Vest of the Brave a bit lumpy, but it is important to us you always have your Bravery Packs on you. Oh, and do not get them wet, please.

So, now, if you could . . . what's that? Oh, the blinking light? Well, that is a, um, GPS! Yes, a GPS. So we can always keep track of you and pray to Allah for you to be a success! Yes! A success wherever you go.

Speaking of which, do you plan to go to, oh I don't know, maybe the Pentagon anytime soon? If you do, can you wear your Vest of the Brave and give me a call when you get there? We would pray extra hard for you! Thank you, Jon B! You are a great humanitarian!

TAN| 3.12.10 @ 12:38PM

You are right Jon B. Instead of the military doing a thousand cheetah-flips in making sure the Muslim Dogs get nicer places to live than our soldiers in Afghanistan and Iraq, we should have done the humane thing, a bullet to the base of the skull . . .
Jon B, go stick your head back in the sand where it belongs and the real Americans will continue to do the heavy lifting for you, like preserving the freedoms you have to trash our patriots, f**kbag!!!

victor| 3.13.10 @ 7:51PM

Jon B:
"There's the article, then there's reality... "

And then there's Jon Boy.

Bill Hussein O'Stalin| 3.12.10 @ 8:42AM

The Obama Justice Department has been staffed with terrorist defenders from Eric Holder on down. These people should be tried for treason and if there is any justice they will be one day.

http://www.jihadwatch.org/2010.....nders.html

At the rate the Obama Administration is going, it may rival the Nixon Administration in its cover-ups and dishonesty. The new revelation that at least nine attorneys in the Justice Department have previously defended accused jihad terrorist follows closely after another incident remarkably similar in broad outline: the Rashad Hussain debacle. Both feature the Obama Administration apparently turning a blind eye to sympathy for jihad terrorists, followed by clumsy attempts to cover up its indifference once the whole thing came to light.

Rashad Hussain is the young man Obama appointed as special envoy to the 56-nation Organization of the Islamic Conference, only to discover that several years ago Hussain decried as a "persecution" the prosecution of admitted Palestinian Islamic Jihad leader Sami al-Arian. This was disturbing enough in itself, but less so than the clumsy cover-up that followed, in which Hussain attempted to whitewash the record of his statements about al-Arian by having the magazine in which they appeared alter its online archive. Did the White House know Hussain was doing this? Did it approve of his action? We don't know, because Obama's ever-helpful lapdog, the mainstream media, is not asking.

Jeff| 3.12.10 @ 8:45AM

Jon B,

I'm willing to bet that you also believe that planes full of terrorist did not fly into the Pentagon or the twin towers. People like you sicken me. One other observation, you were probably educated at one of our Ivey League schools?

John3| 3.12.10 @ 9:12AM

This is just incredibly stupid how we are running this country and how many people believe that we really have to cuddle up with these terrotists.

Ken (Old Texican)| 3.12.10 @ 10:17AM

EDITORS,
Thank you again for this open forum.

Almost every single day we all get another glimpse of how childish and silly many Americans truly are.

It really keeps us sharp, in a whole world of issues.

We have folks here from all over every spectrum, and with diverse axes to grind.
Very instructive, and again, thank you.

Copyleft| 3.12.10 @ 10:41AM

Very true! It's always instructive to see how very childish and silly many of our brain-dead fascists (pardon the shorthand) truly are.

The struggle must never be abandoned!

Todd| 3.12.10 @ 2:25PM

Yes it is, you and Jon B prove how brain-dead and childish the liberal fascists really are.

Alan Brooks| 3.12.10 @ 9:27PM

"our brain-dead fascists (pardon the shorthand) truly are."

Yeah, WE are the fashits, not the fweedom fyters, right? If only the fweedom fyters were luved more. We should luv each other more, stop being so nastie. What IS the matter with us?
Mutt-allah-ub had the bomb in his panties because he is sexually wepwessed, he duzint get enuff luvin'
Awwwwwwwwwww, we are so Nastie. Right now the poor innocent boy is being hurt so badly, so starved, so mistweeted in evewy way that Copyleft is staying up nights crying in her pillow. AAWWWWW,
sweet Copyleft, so kind, so innocent and tender, reading your comments I feel such a sweet surrender;
for I have never been luved like this before.
Aint it good, aint it right,
that you are with me,
in Gitmo tonight!
Rock me gently
rock me slowly
Take it easy, don't you know it:
That I have never been loved like this before!

Margie| 3.14.10 @ 2:53PM

Alan,
I must say I am thoroughly enjoying your posts on this thread.
Rock on!

Tim| 3.12.10 @ 11:19AM

Struggle? What struggle? The struggle to pass Obama's agenda through an overwhelmingly Democratic congress? That struggle?

Richard| 3.12.10 @ 11:46AM

The Guantanamo facilities speak well of our country and our treatment of enemy combatants. Liberal prefer to believe that we are not at war with radical Islam, that these individuals are just ordinary criminals. Hence the nonsense about due process, rights, and trials. The liberal position shows an amazing ignorance of the multi century history of radical Islam's war with Christian civilization. The liberal position is also wishful thinking that perpetuates a world view of "blame America first".

Copyleft| 3.12.10 @ 12:33PM

Until there's a formal declaration from Congress, we're NOT at war.

That pesky ol' Constitution again....

Doorgunner| 3.12.10 @ 1:32PM

It certainly was an ugly precedent set by Truman, Kennedy and Johnson. Fortunately, at least the UN authorized this one.

JP| 3.12.10 @ 4:35PM

Funny,
I don't remember Truman's DOJ issing captured CHICOMs lawyers; nor do I remember any of them getting trials.

victor| 3.13.10 @ 7:53PM

Right you are.
Harry would have had them shot!

Bob Smith | 3.12.10 @ 12:02PM

One term president.

Pingback| 3.12.10 @ 12:09PM

The American Spectator : Trusting Terrorists, Abandoning Troops | Clinton, Illinois L links to this page. Here’s an excerpt:

…up by Ashcroft: nothing prepared him for Guantanamo Bay. Took days each time after leaving Guantanamo before he could speak w/o suffering from depression. … More here: The American Spectator : Trusting Terrorists, Abandoning Troops Categories: Blogs Tags: ashcroft, days-each, guantanamo, law-history, nominee-held, nothing-prepared Leave a Reply Click here to cancel reply. Name (required) Mail (will not…

Northern Rebel| 3.12.10 @ 12:18PM

Perhaps Mayor Bloomberg should hurry down to Gitmo, and oversee the menu, and make sure these warm kind and fuzzy detainees are not fed too much salt, or fat, and smoking cigarettes!

Alan Brooks| 3.12.10 @ 9:33PM

But Bloomberg's a Yankee...
we know how bad dose Yankees were against Daddy Robert's innocent boys.

Pingback| 3.12.10 @ 12:46PM

Trusting Terrorists, Abandoning Troops « links to this page. Here’s an excerpt:

…and the critics of its self-defense, by prosecuting the SEALs who risk their own lives to apprehend jihadists, and pushing the false narrative that has come to define detention operations at Gitmo. Read More Tags: Gitmo, Guantanamo Bay, Navy SEALs, Terrorists, War on Terror This entry was posted on Friday, March 12th, 2010 at 10:46 am and is filed under Uncategorized. You can follow any responses to this…

Pingback| 3.12.10 @ 2:17PM

Ignored: The treatment of of prisoners at Gitmo links to this page. Here’s an excerpt:

…Gitmo could be compared to Nazi or Soviet Gulags in their treatment of prisoners. Except when you ACTUALLY look at how the prisoners are treated, you get an entirely different picture. From the American Spectator: Every detainee held at Gitmo has 24/7 access to the hospital specifically set up for them, complete with an X-Ray machine ( to accommodate the high number of sports injuries, including those from…

Pingback| 3.12.10 @ 3:24PM

Trusting Terrorists, Abandoning Troops | Western Journalism.com links to this page. Here’s an excerpt:

…Guantanamo as a “sad chapter in American history,” and has lamented that Guantanamo has “set back the moral authority that is America’s strongest currency in the world.” Read More: By Ben Lerner, American Spectator Filed under News · Tagged with Gitmo, Navy Seals, Terrorists, troops This website uses IntenseDebate comments, but they are not currently loaded because…

Pingback| 3.12.10 @ 4:10PM

Derrick Rose follows Luol Deng to Chicago Bulls treatment room … | Chicago Bulls NBA links to this page. Here’s an excerpt:

…room … Related Blogs on Their Three The Democrats Begin Hedging Their Bets « Three Fingers of Politics p2pnet news » Blog Archive » UK Three Strikes rogues gallery The American Spectator : Trusting Terrorists, Abandoning Troops Related Posts Derrick Rose follows Luol Deng to Chicago Bulls treatment room … Luol Deng loses on Chicago Bulls return – Basketball – Mirror ……

nodhimmi| 3.12.10 @ 4:49PM

Well, seems like there is an easy alternative to obamacare and social welfare in general: Become a terrorist for first class state-sponsored service ;-)

When done with vacation, go right back to the front like the one ex-Gitmo in Afghanistan.

The problem for the Nazis in Nurnberg (btw., I come from Germany) where not their horrible crimes but that there were fewer liberals back then in the US. If those trials would be today, each of them would receive a copy of Mein Kampf and where allowed to push one jew per day into a gas chamber as their traditional ritual.

When exactly was the point in time that people actually stopped thinking on this planet? Or did they ever?

chuck| 3.12.10 @ 5:52PM

Love the name, how apt. I'm sure the trolls have no clue what that means(TRY GOOGLING IT), but then they don't know much, do they? Thinking, WHATSUP WID DAT?

Beam me up, Scotty, there's no intelligent life here!

Brian | 3.12.10 @ 5:17PM

I think what Jon B is getting at is:
The lawyer "flew down in post WW2 planes, 3-1/2 hour flights." How can any self-respecting attorney be forced on a 3-1/2 hour flight stuck in "military class?" I think the last time I flew it was on a "post-WW2" aircraft. Despite the best efforts of politicians, I think most military aircraft are "post WW2."
3-1/2 hours reminds me of something...oh, yes, the amount of time I need to get to my local airport before a flight because of real jihadists, not these poor babe-in-the-woods types that are recovering from sports injuries in Guantanamo. Furthermore, I am shocked that 100% of the tortured souls in Guantanamo are Muslim men! I would think that there would be some Lutheran, Catholic, or perhaps Unitarian Universalist terrorists thrown in the mix. What of the rights of Muslim jihadist women to be captured in combat?

Chuck| 3.12.10 @ 5:44PM

This old warrior learned in Vietnam to not take any prisoners. The enemy soldiers were killed in combat.

Nick| 3.12.10 @ 7:00PM

Watch it, Chuck.

Eric Holder and S.L. Toddard will both want to prosecute you for war crimes.

You had better find a good lawyer.

Alan Brooks| 3.12.10 @ 9:36PM

" Eric Holder and S.L. Toddard will both want to prosecute you for war crimes. You had better find a good lawyer.
cancel reply."

David Lane. (303) 555- 5555

Nick| 3.13.10 @ 3:59PM

Mr. Brooks,

Is David related to Mark Lane?

Osamas Pajamas| 3.12.10 @ 7:07PM

Compare this exposure of actual Gitmo conditions with the faked-up view which so "embarrasses" OhBummer and the OhBummer Wrecking Crew and the Democrat-captured media. All their sympathies appear to be on the side of the loonytoon jihadis. If these wacko Demos had been in charge during WWII , the Nazi and Jap POWs would have been offered all the same rights under the Constitution which today's Demos are offering to the jihadi detainees and trying to deny to natural-born American citizens. I am told that it is a no-no to promote the violent overthrow of the government which threatens us with violence, but inasmuch as promoting the overthrow of the Democrat party amounts to the same thing, then what the hell, fellas --- go overthrow the gun-lovin', gun-totin' Democrat party!

rdman| 3.12.10 @ 7:17PM

Jon B. et al,

These people only feel important when people react to what they believe is their spurious superiority. Arrogance and contempt is their defense against feeling jealous of others and their success. These psychotic leftist lawyers are viciously vindictive, relentlessly, obsessively destroying whatever reminds them of their own shortcomings.

Despite their duplicity and deviousness, they always fall on their faces because part of their need for vindictive triumph includes the desire for their detractors to know who victimized them. Their need for attention is their nemesis. Adoration by the few loonies or condemnation and notoriety gives them the attention they crave… being feared or despised affirms in their perverted minds that they exist with godly power and supremacy.

The irony that these psychotic leftist lawyers face is that they unwittingly bring about what they most fear… REJECTION... ELECTION 2010!!!

Jon B| 3.12.10 @ 8:00PM

Just as an aside, as many of you know, most of the people who signed up to fight against America didn't sign up for any deep ideological or religious reasons: They signed up because they had innocent friends, or family arrested,, detained and tortured, basically disappeared for years at Gitmo or other detention centers. Only 5% were arrested on the battle field, and this plays out since Bush released 500 of the detainees after several years, out of the 800 held at Gitmo, and cleared another 60 for release before Obama took office.

I must say, since most of you are anti-American pieces of shit who would rather pick party over American troops lives, why not move to a place more suitable to your needs, like Somalia? Just a suggestion. Sleep on it.

Nick| 3.12.10 @ 8:07PM

Jon B,

Still waiting for that quote or source.

Just admit you were lying and be done with it.

Nick| 3.12.10 @ 8:25PM

I just saw that you finally admitted, above, to lying all this time.

You tried to claim it was a mistake, but you constantly repeated it over and over again, so it must have been conscious.

Typical lefty bafoon.

Hope you enjoy my comments.

Alan Brooks| 3.12.10 @ 9:43PM

"They signed up because they had innocent friends, or family arrested,, detained and tortured, basically disappeared for years at Gitmo or other detention centers."

O, the poor things. Oh dearie. And we hurt those Nazis and Commies who were just fighting for their families. We ARE shits, Sloop Jon B.
Unlike you I am so ashamed. When are we going to start loving each other more? What is wrong with us?
Are we monsters? WHEN are we going to change?
How? Who are we to treat other people like this? What are we?
Who are we and what are we doing?
Who's on first
What's on second
I don't know?

Third base!

Bydand76| 3.14.10 @ 10:32AM

Ok, Mr Jon B.

I have been reading your silly tirades in here and mostly have come to the conclusion that you are a infantile little high school age turd playing around on Grandma's computer.

Your above post though is about one of the most moronic things I have ever read here on AS. You clearly have no idea what you are talking about OR you are taking talking points from whatever progressive socialist/fascist/ communist orginization you happen to fancy and are re-posting them here. Which is typical of pathetic little progressives such as yourself or the "Copyleft" ninny.

I think that you must like to make things up because your figures and your math are blatantly wrong sir!

I have spent quite a bit of time working in the middle east and quite a bit of time fighting against the "Jihadist". Almost all of them that were captured, killed or detained were ALL religious zealots or had a religious motivation in engagin American/ British forces.
(Kind of reminiscent of the "progressive left" in the states.) i.e FANATICAL & STUPID!!

In short sir, please refrain from making asinine statements in the future. It dishonors all who made the sacrifice so you can run your mouth off and sit in your coffee shop. Jackass!

Oh and one more thing?

If the detainees are not Islamic fundamentalists as you claim? Why go to all the trouble of playing to Islamic sensibilities at Gitmo in the first place?
Hmmmmm?
Moron!

PRO LIBERTATE!!

It is easy to talk about liberty when you've never had it taken from you!

Bydand76| 3.14.10 @ 10:44AM

Jon B.

I am an American soldier!

Do NOT presume to speak for me!

Thank You!

Pro Libertate!

Jon B| 3.12.10 @ 8:20PM

There are people here who know, and are laughing at you, like I am now.

Just to make sure you saw this, it was $425 million Reagan gave Russia, not $425 billion. My mistake as I've said everywhere I can. And no, I;m not doing your homework for you on something that widely reported. Those darn delusional neocons, always on the make for intelligence welfare from other people since they're so deeply full of their own BS.

Nick| 3.12.10 @ 8:30PM

"[...] I;m not doing your homework for you [...]." (sic)

This is commie, lefty-speak for, "I don't have a source, I'm just making it up. Because I'm an Useful Idiot, and read it years ago in some lefty propaganda, or my professor told me what to think. You see, I can't think for myself."

Nick| 3.12.10 @ 8:35PM

I forgot to include: President Reagan didn't give the Soviets $425 MILLION, either.

Nick| 3.12.10 @ 8:50PM

I just read your admission, this morning, that you lied, in the original thread in which you made said lies.

You wrote: "I'll find a source for it eventually [...]."

"Wellllllll........We're waiting!"
- Judge Smails, "Caddyshack"

Bydand76| 3.14.10 @ 10:39AM

Nick my old friend,

I think you are wasting your valuable computer time on this douche-bag of a Jon B.

He is just another revisionist progressive lib-turd monkey.

He probably doesn't have the ability to remember anything that he wrote or stated because it was all made up in the first place.

You might be in danger of taking candy from a special needs kid here my friend!

Pro Libertate!

Nick| 3.14.10 @ 1:35PM

Bydand76,

You may be right.

But, I don't give coup de grâce, nor do I grant any quarter.

I like to put my boot on the wound and make my victims cry uncle and admit their crimes.

Sort of like what Dirty Harry did to Scorpio, to find out where the girl he kidnapped was hidden. One of the best scenes in cinema.

Alan Brooks| 3.12.10 @ 9:49PM

"My mistake as I've said everywhere I can. And no, I;m not doing your homework for you on something that widely reported. Those darn delusional neocons, always on the make for intelligence welfare from other people since they're so deeply full of their own BS. "

Intelligence welfare. What brain trust thought that one up. How old are you Jon? 14?
We accept your Apollo-gie for getting de millions confwused wid de billions.
Intelligence welfare! a real knee slapper-- a gut buster.

Nick| 3.13.10 @ 12:36AM

I love this one, from above: "[...] you could've corrected me on it."

I DID!
Multiple times.
So did others. Someone even asked you if you could be thinking of "millions" instead of "billions."

You replied with gems like this: "I wonder how you're going to feel once you realize what I said is true?"

I fell great Jon B.
How do you feel? Tee-hee!

Todd| 3.13.10 @ 12:57AM

Still no source I see dumbass. I even called it a few days ago that you probably didn't know the difference between million and billion and now you make that very claim. It is your job to provide a source you fool if you make a claim like that. Now go and crawl back into the hole that you came from.

Nick| 3.13.10 @ 1:31AM

Todd,

Sorry, I couldn't remember who it was. And I was too lazy to go look it up. But, I knew someone asked Jon B if he knes the difference between millions and billions.

If only he wasn't such a close-minded liberal, he might have avoided looking so foolish.

victor| 3.13.10 @ 8:06PM

Jon B:
"Just to make sure you saw this, it was $425 million Reagan gave Russia, not $425 billion. My mistake"

Your only mistake is that you are still six feet above ground. You cannot prove anything.
Here is the first BILLION of many that your Boy Bill gave Beltin' Boris Yeltsin:
http://articles.baltimoresun.c.....n-mulroney

Ben | 3.12.10 @ 8:22PM

I guess the Islam-first libertarians are very happy with Obama.

Pingback| 3.12.10 @ 10:36PM

Real Torture: watch it before youtube pulls the video — Winds Of Jihad By SheikYerMam links to this page. Here’s an excerpt:

…door, pulled down on the handcuffs and kicked the chair away. That was quite painful,” he said. Read the rest Ex-Bush aide Rove ‘proud’ of tough interrogation (AFP) Since when does torture include a 6,000 calorie diet? Share and Enjoy: Tagged as: real torture, torture, torture UAE Join the discussion... Too small? Click here This is a satirical website. None of what you read here has anything…

Anonymous| 3.13.10 @ 3:42AM

If only we treated our SEALS (those being courtmartialed, or just all of 'em) and the rest of our military folk as well.

Jon B| 3.13.10 @ 5:24AM

Why am I not amazed that not a single one of you get the point? Torture of innocent people led directly to hundreds more recruits signing up to come to Iraq and kill our guys. In fact, that;s the #1 reason they signed up. People kill you because they want too. They often want too for a reason. You'd rather blather on the a cesspool of ignorance to protect your partisan leanings than actually stick up for the troops. Find ANYONE in the military familiar with this situation who agrees with you. Just ONE person. You can't. This just shows EVERYONE how detached from reality you are.

Why am I not surprised? You're the same people who casually defend the lies to invade Iraq sending other peoples kids off to die for your party. In reality, you're the definition of Anti-American, and the kind that brought our kids in harm's way in the first place. Hopefully some of you will grow up before you die of old age.

Nick| 3.13.10 @ 7:24AM

Blah-blah-blah....

Where's that source, Mr. "Reagan gave the Soviets $425 billion, oops...er...um I mean million, because I'm too stupid, or I'm a liar"?

Ret. Marine| 3.13.10 @ 9:35PM

You dipstick, it is required of a jiadist, or if one wants to call it for what it is, their duty to fight untill we submitt, convert or pay the dues, look it up in the cornran.

Zeo WOods| 3.13.10 @ 7:44AM

Are you kidding me? Half the prisoners there probably dont even belong there. What difference does it make where they are held hostage at? I mean seriously.

Zeo
www.fbi-logfiles.int.tc

Pingback| 3.13.10 @ 7:54AM

Must Know Headlines 3.13.2010 — ExposeTheMedia.com links to this page. Here’s an excerpt:

…For Everything! Terrorism ‘They Herded Us Into One Place And Started Chopping With Machetes…’ Second American Female Convert To Islam Arrested In Plot To Kill Motoonist Trusting Terrorists, Abandoning Troops Old Media “Journalist” Begs Congressman To Pass Bill For Obama WaPo Giddy Over Gay Marriage, Quotes Supporters 10 Times More Than Opponents ‘Today’ Praises Bank…

Pingback| 3.13.10 @ 9:52AM

Trusting Terrorists, Abandoning Troops « Socialism is not the Answer links to this page. Here’s an excerpt:

…Navy SEALs facing courts-martial. If more people were given the opportunity to visit Guantanamo Bay, they would be signing petitions by the tens of thousands on behalf of those serving there as well. Source: March 13, 2010 - Posted by 1dragon | Uncategorized | al Qaeda, Barack Obama, Barry, Club Gitmo, Congress, conservative blog network, Constitution, Cover-up, Delicious Digg, Democrat, Fiscal…

nodhimmi| 3.13.10 @ 9:52AM

I see a lot of this fake argument, that because "some Arabs are detained the Islamists are starting to recruit more fighters".

I am not sure if those who support this argument are aware of the following facts:

1. Islam is at war with any other religion/culture since Muhammed (peace be upon him) moved to Medina. In Mekka, he made some measily 150 followers of his new cult, but when he recognized that asking people to join with a sword at their neck, those figures jumped into the tens of thousands.
http://www.politicalislam.com/.....h-12-2010/

2. Islam has not changed its way of spreading the word of Muhammed (peace be upon him) with violence, subversion, fertilization since the beginning of this cult (so many sources, try thereligionofpeace.com for starters)

3. Muslims (please note that I do not make the false difference between so called "radical" or "moderate" muslims as any muslim in a muslim country will eventually become a radical, s. http://97.74.65.51/readArticle.aspx?ARTID=30675) hate everything western which is why THEY STARTED THE WAR. People tend to forget 9/11 which I will NEVER DO IN MY WHOLE LIVE. Actually, there where millions of NON-PROVOKED violent acts of muslims before and tens of thousands after, but this one was really outstanding in a negative way.

4. How do you take care of people who are attacking you, Jon B.? The enemy starts with, let's say some 100k muslim fighters and because some more thousands join after you fought the first 100k you stop and pull out the white flag? Jon B, you owe a big "thank you" to all the conservatives in your country, because if they where all liberal like you, the German and Japanese speaking colony of the former USA of 1945 would now convert to a 100% islamic country.

5. For those who love the muslims: Get in a plane and have fun in Sudan, Dubai, Gaza, Lebanon. They like you so much there, you will instantly become of member of their club (or beheaded, your choice).

Franklin| 3.13.10 @ 2:01PM

Thank you, nodhimmi.

Here are two links to videos I found that help explain the worlds problems with Islamic Terrorists:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TkGQmCZjJ0k

http://www.redstate.com/vizbiz.....ghanistan/

They are both from Allen West, Republican candidate for Florida Congressional District 22.

nodhimmi| 3.15.10 @ 6:22AM

Thank you Franklin,

I just ordered my version of the infidels guide to the qu'ran in order to go from "knows a lot about the true goals of islam" to "be able to discuss in depth with muslims and leftists appeasants".

Actually, I did the same with socialism (i.e. studying mises, hayek, rand, popper etc.) the last decade but as Islam and Socialism unite I think I have to extense my spectrum ;-)

Jon B| 3.13.10 @ 2:08PM

The issue isn't the detention of suspects. The issue is detention and torture of people for 2,3,4 and even over 7 years after we knew they were innocent.

Northern Rebel| 3.13.10 @ 12:59PM

Jon B.:

It is you who doesn't understand. Those people aren't given a choice. They are indoctrinated as children about their culture of death, then given no hope of a future.

Those who try to live a peaceful life as a muslim, are summarily executed with their families, or used as human shields.

It is they who torture their own kind, much like you torture us with your twisted logic.

Perhaps you will get a better reception of your views at the daily Kos blog, but we don't buy your horseshit here, pal.

Jon B| 3.13.10 @ 2:06PM

I wonder why most of Islam strongly denounced the 9/11 attacks?
http://www.unc.edu/~kurzman/terror.htm

Andy| 3.13.10 @ 9:08PM

Sorry Jon

You honestly don’t get it. No offence, I was the same a few years ago.
They live in a different world Jon.
They us were born and raised in Islam and were taught never to question the truth of Islam and to believe in Allah and his messenger with blind faith.
Muslims define their own identity solely in opposition to the Kuffar. Islamic accomplishments are so negligible that they have no positive cultural features with which they can identify. Hence the unceasing and implacable aggression toward civilized peoples and envy of their accomplishments. The development and deliberate cultivation of hatred is such a central feature of Islam that there is nothing that we Kuffars can do, or not do, that would make Muslims hate us any less or any more. Hatred of non-Moslems is the pivot of Islamic existence. Muslims are bound together by a shared and carefully nurtured animosity to 'The Other' developed from earliest childhood, which ignites a permanent fire of tension between Moslems and non-Moslems. Ever since Jihadists started immigrating into the West, we have become all too familiar with concepts such as 'Killing the unbelievers wherever you find them' and the tribal polarities of Dar al-Harb versus Dar al-Islam , Ummah versus Kuffar etc.

Muslims are not only allowed to lie (Al Takya) but it is a virtue to lie. You can lie to protect Islam and lie to advance Islam. Lying against infidels like you has been practiced for centuries.
As for the statements against terrorism. You can find the same amount of (and probably more) statements supporting the terrorists. However, the most favourite strategy is to deny that the attackers were Muslims. They were Jews or CIA agents trying to whip up anger against those poor Muslims so they could invade Afghanistan and Iraq.
Read them again. Lots of those ‘condemnations’ speak out against the killing of ‘innocent people’. However, there is no Imam who condemns the slaying of infidels. Infidels are not innocent by the shear fact that they have not submitted to Islam. Those who do not submit to Islam are fighting against it and wage war against Allah. Those waging war against Allah are to be killed or crucified, or have their hands and feet on alternate sides cut off, or will be expelled out of the land" (Qur'an 5:33).

Of course they are against the killing of ‘innocent people. No innocent people were killed in 9/11. That’s why they were dancing in the streets in Gaza, Rotterdam, Amman .........

Jon B| 3.13.10 @ 1:49PM

Larry Wilkerson: Torture Cheerleaders Like Cheney And Rove Are 'Cowards'

Larry Wilkinson, former chief of staff to Colin Powell, and Larry O'Donnell really let Karl Rove have it on Countdown last night for cheerleading torture from the safe distance of his office:

Wilkerson, former chief of staff to United States Secretary of State Colin Powell, interviewed by Lawrence O'Donnell tonight (12 March 2010) on the matter of Karl Rove's book and its attempts to justify the use of torture techniques during the Bush administration.
WILKERSON: "Let me say this, I saw - I had the highest clearance, Top Secret SCI - I saw almost everything Secretary Powell saw. I saw no proof of any of the things that Karl Rove indicated, and, as a matter of fact, no proof that any of the interrogation techniques, other than those used by the FBI, early on, had a real impact on actionable intelligence.
And I've got something else to say about Mr. Rove: No political counselor should have - he doesn't have the need-to-know. He shouldn't have access to that kind of classified information. He has NO BUSINESS having access, so if the White House allowed him to, THAT is a no-no...
O'DONNELL: "As a military man, what does that feel like to watch the cheerleaders safely positioned on the sidelines, their whole lives, try to tell you what is the most effective process and technique in war?"
WILKERSON: "Well, it says to me, and I'll make no bones about it, that they're all cowards. I mean, it's plain and simple, they're all cowards."

Nick| 3.13.10 @ 2:50PM

Blah-blah-blah....

Where's that source, Mr. "Reagan gave the Soviets $425 billion, oops...er...um I mean million, because I'm too stupid, or I'm a liar"?

Jon B| 3.13.10 @ 3:04PM

Reagan gave Russia $425 million, not billion. Why do you hate Reagan? is it because he raped Selene Walters in 1953, or because he dumped his GF Jackie Parks after he knocked her up?

Nick| 3.13.10 @ 3:50PM

Jon B likes to diddle little boys in his mother's basement.

See, I can also make-up things out of whole cloth.

Now, where's that quote, Mr. "It was on all the Networks"?

victor| 3.13.10 @ 8:15PM

Jon B:
"Reagan gave Russia $425 million"

I googled that phrase and the only thing that came up was this:
The American Spectator : AmSpecBlog : The Joys of Jobless RecoveryMar 8, 2010 ... I apologize: Reagan gave Russia $425 million, not $425 billion. I have no idea how I warped that figure in my mind. It's not even logical. ...
spectator.org/blog/2010/03/08/the-joys-of-jobless-recovery -
The American Spectator : The Devil Is in the DeficitsMar 10, 2010 ... You find the reference for your claim about Reagan giving $425 ... I did make a huge mistake: Reagan gave Russia $425 million, not billion. ...
spectator.org/archives/2010/03/10/the-devil-is-in-the-deficits -

Nothing close to what you were saying.

About that 425 Million, what were you saying?

Osamas Pajamas| 3.13.10 @ 10:26PM

That phrase from the Koran, "....those who speak or wage war against Allah...." --- it's used by the criminal defenders of Allah to justify their murders of infidels. Now, if Allah is all-powerful and all-knowing and created the universe and all else that exists --- then what does he need with these lying, murderous pigs who claim to be "defending" him? It's no secret that --- if he exists --- ALLAH IS SO POWERFUL THAT HE CAN DEFEND HIMSELF! In the mere blink of an eye, he can turn all things which exist --- the whole universe! --- into a scrap of burnt wheat toast. So all of the jihadis should just settle down with wifes and kids and don't beat them and build their mosques and read their Korans--- and eat their very yummy Middle Eastern food --- and have nice, quiet lives, except maybe on birthdays, graduation parties, and holidays. Allah is a big boy, now --- and he can take care of himself --- no-o-o-o-o problem.

Dernon Ruton| 3.14.10 @ 10:28AM

You quote the president as saying in re Gitmo a "sad chapter in American history," True to his form, duplicitous, ulterior, and inverted. But wow. How unintentionally, self-referentially prescient.

Jon B| 3.14.10 @ 1:54PM

I really expected more from people here, but this is like talking to trailer trash.

Nick| 3.14.10 @ 2:07PM

Where's that source, Mr. "I like to libel former great presidents"?

Pingback| 3.14.10 @ 5:09PM

Twog Revealed in Layers: Layer One. | NewsReal Blog links to this page. Here’s an excerpt:

…Twog having bad memories. Need stop now. Liz ringing cell phone. Read following AmSpecBlog. Why Jihadists eat so well when Twog only get 2 rats/day and limited selection Hot Pockets? Trusting Terrorists, Abandoning Troops , by Ben Lerner. from → Terrorism (Islamic), Twog This website uses IntenseDebate comments, but they are not currently loaded because either your browser doesn't support…

The Anti-Moocher| 3.14.10 @ 10:50PM

Our American inner city moocher welfare Moms have that beat, they and their bafturd brats eat 10,000+ calories each, every day.

nodhimmi| 3.15.10 @ 7:24AM

Dear all,

I think Jon B. representing the typical leftist contributes a lot to this discussion. Thank you for pointing out the fallacies your liberal community are spraying.

I just want to point out something Andy already made a good point of, or better to say, make a small enhancement.

A general fallacy of the everyday person is that people think how they would react on something if they want to look on why somebody else did something. This is called in German "von sich auf andere schliessen" ("to conclude from yourself for others" may be a translation).

But, as one can see in the daily work of profilers or pointed out in several hollywood movies potraying this fact - If you want to catch a mass murderer you must think like him. These guys are - scientifically proved - thinking in a different way than ordinary men. For example, people are just like objects to them, so while a person with a sane mind would choke when seeing a dead body, for them it is just like seeing a table with a broken leg.

NOW, if you connect the dots and recognize that muslims are brainwashed from birth and trained that to suicide bomb jews and christians and destroying western civilazation is the regular kind of way, you must admit that you simply cannot conclude from your way of defining "religion" is the same as they do. What they think is "just" is another definition as you have. What they think is "freedom" is another definition than ours.

[just a small reminder of muslim definitions of the above:
- religion: whole-life-and-state-regulating mindset compared to spirituality as we think
- just: everything to establish a caliphate in the world, including murder, slaying, lieing etc.
- freedom: freedom of muslims to govern every living being]

If we don't understand these simple truths we will be overun in some decades and there will be nothing than third world and barbary over the whole planet.

gene Hauber| 3.15.10 @ 11:35PM

if we just shot them all on the battlefield, we would be better off
try them and shoot them now

Pingback| 3.17.10 @ 2:33PM

Navy Seals, 6,000 Calories A Day At Gitmo And More On NewsReal Blog « nampion.com links to this page. Here’s an excerpt:

…Twog having bad memories. Need stop now. Liz ringing cell phone. Read following AmSpecBlog. Why Jihadists eat so well when Twog only get 2 rats/day and limited selection Hot Pockets? Trusting Terrorists, Abandoning Troops , by Ben Lerner. from → Terrorism (Islamic), Twog Close Forgot password? Please put in your email: Send me my password! Close message Login This blog post All blog posts Subscribe to…

Pingback| 3.17.10 @ 2:43PM

Liz Blaine’s Errand Creature Finally Shows Himself/NewsReal Blog « nampion.com links to this page. Here’s an excerpt:

…Twog having bad memories. Need stop now. Liz ringing cell phone. Read following AmSpecBlog. Why Jihadists eat so well when Twog only get 2 rats/day and limited selection Hot Pockets? Trusting Terrorists, Abandoning Troops , by Ben Lerner. from → Terrorism (Islamic), Twog Close Forgot password? Please put in your email: Send me my password! Close message Login This blog post All blog posts Subscribe to…

Pingback| 3.29.10 @ 9:55AM

A Few Quick Hits , An Ol’ Broad’s Ramblings links to this page. Here’s an excerpt:

…the Pentagon thinks it’s a good idea to spend money on a NEW toy. Wonder when we’ll stop funding corruption, and allow our troops to actually KILL the bad guys without fear of prosecution? Russia has had it’s share of evil when it comes to terrorism. I don’t know, seems to me that the majority of attacks, world wide, is linked to one particular group, in one way or…

Pingback| 4.1.10 @ 2:50PM

Trusting Terrorists, Abandoning Troops | Coalition for Terror-Free Communities links to this page. Here’s an excerpt:

…Feature / Trusting Terrorists, Abandoning Troops Trusting Terrorists, Abandoning Troops By associateeditor • on April 1, 2010 Print Comment Feed Stumble it Digg it del.icio.us Facebook American Spectator, March 12, 2010 by Ben Lerner I recently returned from a week-long media tour in Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, where some of our finest soldiers and sailors are tasked with a difficult and thankless job:…

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Specific ingredients: clothing, accessories, and shoes, but most recently handbags have become a cornerstone to the aura that is mainstream fashion www.handbagshunting.com

black.friday | 11.18.10 @ 11:17AM

yes the Pentagon thinks it’s a good idea to spend money on a NEW toy

55 inch lcd | 12.4.10 @ 9:14PM

Velmi Emocemi nabitá muzika! Moc se mi líbí obě desky a jen doufám že další na sebe nenechá moc dlouho čekat.Konečně máme IMMER i u nás v Jablonci v Jukeboxu.
Mějte se Deathmetalově a jen tak dále!

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