The American Spectator

Lynn Nofzinger| 3.4.10 @ 6:30AM

So, Obama is a partisan Democrat. This is news?

You can and should do better, Mr. Klein.

DNC Talking Points Drew| 3.4.10 @ 7:43AM

Hey Lynn,
Markos called. He's laying you off.

Lynn Nofzinger's conscience| 3.4.10 @ 8:19AM

What I meant to say is,

"So Obama is a habitual liar who misrepresents his true nature every time he opens his mouth. In other words, he's a democrat. It's not news that democrats are inherently duplicitous powermongers"

Thank you, Mr. Klein, for exposing our puerile, vengeful, doctrinaire, would-be-dictator in chief for what he is.

Straighten up and fly right, Lynn.

Walter H. Steinlauf| 3.4.10 @ 4:45PM

Thank You for Tellin' it like it is! When, oh when will this over-stuffed, master-of-puffery disappear on the Cosmic Winds?

Joe Rehyansky| 3.4.10 @ 11:42AM

It's getting tiresome to read about how Obama is our "first post-partisan president" or even our "first post-racial president." Tell it like it is. He's our "first post-American president."

Steve Riessen| 3.4.10 @ 2:51PM

Well said, my man.

Jack Davis| 3.4.10 @ 3:04PM

Excellently put!

James Baum| 3.4.10 @ 8:39PM

The insurance issue can be solved later when people are better informed to the "actual" details and results of changes!!!!

Petronius| 3.5.10 @ 1:50AM

Sorry Joe
The first post American president was Jimmeee Caaahrter.

Siegfried X| 3.4.10 @ 6:31AM

The Democratic leadership decided to use reconciliation within a few hours after Scott Brown won. They've been trying to get the votes ever since. So nothing has changed.

Walter| 3.4.10 @ 11:58AM

The Republicans in the Senate should very carefully explain to their Dem counterparts that the use of the reconciliation option is a smart move if the Dems plan to retain a majority FOREVER!!!

Otherwise they are opening a very dangerous Pandora's box.

Simpleton| 3.4.10 @ 1:16PM

I think they are already aware of it. After all, they were there when Republicans used it to ram through the Bush tax cuts for the wealthy (wealthy does not mean your broke-ass, Walter), and socialized Medicare Part D

stephana| 3.4.10 @ 1:37PM

The only time reconciliation was used was with real bipartisian support.

Change or ignore the rules (laws) at your own risk. I can then decide which laws that I like, and which laws that I can chose to ignore.
Fun huh?

GarandFan| 3.4.10 @ 1:40PM

Reread the article Simpleton. A MAJORITY of Americans supported the tax cuts, unlike the Obamassiah's move to "ram through" his so-called 'health care reform' which is OPPOSED by a MAJORITY.

Walter| 3.4.10 @ 3:15PM

Simpleton,

Broke-ass? Fortunately, not yet.

Oeilsevere| 3.23.10 @ 2:06AM

Ouch...! @Simpleton: you knocked it OUT! LOL And right in the teeth... ;)
I simply googled: "republicans used reconciliation" and this truthiness-oriented, paranoid mouth-breather theory of evil dems "raming through" this HC bill quickly evaporated... You should check out a PERFECT Youtube video of Tea Party "opponents" of the bill... Priceless. The quotation marks around "opponents" are for... Well, you'll see. I can't ruin the good parts for you!!!
xD
Search "tea party" "circus" "newleftmedia"

Oeilsevere| 3.23.10 @ 2:11AM

http://www.sunlightfoundation......ciliation/

Oeilsevere| 3.23.10 @ 2:18AM

http://blog.sunlightfoundation.....ion-votes/

Tom in Michigan| 3.4.10 @ 4:54PM

There is no doubt in my mind the Democrats are willing to take this step because they believe passage of health care/insurance "reform" WILL allow them to become a permanent majority as the political discourse will subsequently degenerate into a UK-style argument of which party can better perpetuate the dole. The Republicans will simply represent themselves as "Democrat-lite" as evidenced by Bush's ill-advised touting of "compassionate conservatism" which facilitated some of the destructive entitlement growth that occurred during his administration.

Ret. Marine| 3.4.10 @ 6:36AM

Destined to be a divider, I contend he has always been a divider. Look not too far in the distant past of his "present" votes in the U.S. Senate, what does this say about this great healer?
It says to me, if it's for big grubmint, it's good, if it's for the people, he's going to wait till the political fortunes are healthy enough to be considered a slime-ball and votes like a typical grub'n progressive tyrant. Nothing new here, please move on folks.
Where any punditor lamestream talking head ever came up with the idea of this person being a great healer, they must be smoking something akin to sqat.

congoboy| 3.4.10 @ 3:10PM

He did not use such votes in the U.S. Senate, you nitwit, they were in the Illinois house, and they were commonly and used by representatives both Republican and Democrat. What you should look at in Illinois history is the overwhelmingly white Chicago City Council, which opposed anything proposed by the progressive black may0r, Harold Washington. The Republicans will reap the whirlwind for their similarly blockheaded behavior in the U.S. Congress.

NITWIT| 3.5.10 @ 5:23AM

You must be one of those protected class members to get this sensitive about your BOY.

The Prickly Thorn| 3.4.10 @ 6:39AM

Let the games begin,..........WE are ready.

oof oof| 3.4.10 @ 10:14AM

Is it time to break out the pitchforks and shotguns yet?

Fed Up| 3.4.10 @ 10:29AM

Yes, it is.

The Prickly Thorn| 3.4.10 @ 11:27AM

It takes 50 Senators and the VP to pass “Health Care Reform” via the "Nuclear" option, which a fact in itself delivers a "Nuclear" solution,....perhaps next time the small plane will not be pointed at an IRS building, but at a black limousine making it's way along the highway. One can only wonder how long before a misguided patriot considers such a solution to the tyranny we are facing. - TPT

oof oof| 3.4.10 @ 11:47AM

Sen. Byrd is about 200 years old, isn't his time up soon? And is it morally wrong to wish death upon people who are seizing power in order to destroy your God given, unalienable rights?

Just asking

Adri| 3.4.10 @ 12:00PM

Yes it is. You should be very ashamed. But not as ashamed as all the people who don't know what the "Nuclear Option" is. In 2005, frustrated by Democratic opposition to some of President Bush’s far right judicial nominees, Senate Republicans threatened to change the rules of the Senate in mid-session to prohibit Democrats from using the filibuster to block votes on judicial nominees. Then-Sen. Trent Lott (R-MS) dubbed the maneuver the “nuclear option” because it would be so divisive. Reconciliation, on the other hand, has been used 22 times between 1980 and 2008.

oof oof| 3.4.10 @ 12:20PM

Adri, you fool, the "nuclear option" is reconciliation, which is meant to pass deficit reducing budgets, not major legislation like this. Every time is was used, it had bipartisan support, more than the 60 votes necessary for cloture, and was on budgetary matters. Obamacare, or whatever you want to call it, does not have bipartisan support, budgetary matters, and does not qualify for reconciliation under current Senate rules. They can change the rules, if that is what they want, but they have to get the votes to do so. Ramming this through like this is a blatant power grab, and it shows a complete disregard ffor the constitutional process of government.

Ashamed? Were our forefathered ashamed when they declared King George a tyrant? I'm with JOHN HANCOCK, when he proudly wrote his name in large and clear letters, so King George wouldn't need to get his reading glasses!

Adri| 3.4.10 @ 1:04PM

really? Reconciliation was use to pass the Contract with America in 1995 (vetoed by President Clinton), the first round of the Bush tax cuts, and opening up land in the Alaskan National Wildlife Reserve for oil drilling. You think those had bipartisan support? Try again. And declaring someone a tyrant and wishing them dead are not the same. You can respectfully disagree without wishing someone harm.

Marc| 3.4.10 @ 1:34PM

Adri,

There was no single legislative act called the "Contract with America", it consisted of a series of 10 policy statements not all of which were regarding legislation. How WJClinton could have vetoed it is hazy. Can you please explain?

In addition, tax cuts ARE part and parcel of the Budget process, hence Budget Reconciliation. Obamacare is to the Budget as Rap is to Beethoven, distantly related in that both involve money (music), but certainly not the same thing.

Care to try for the third 'Obamaism' (aka lie) about reconciliation? I'm sure someone else will be around to correct your mistatment.

oof oof| 3.4.10 @ 2:15PM

Marc,

Thanks for the response. Obviously Adri is woefully educated, probably another government school victim.
Adri: please stop digging your way out of this hole, you're a fool

Bob From District 9| 3.4.10 @ 3:58PM

Look at the comments above. Bills passed with 51 and 58 votes through reconciliation are not passed by 60+supermajorities.

Reconciliation is legal to use for bills from both houses that need change to pass. Live with it.

oof oof| 3.4.10 @ 4:30PM

Bob, you are confusing the process of reconciling different version of a House and Senate bill in a conference committee, with the process called "budget reconciliation. The first takes a bill passed in both houses, albeit with differences, and compromises are made to get a final bill. Then the final bill must be passed again by both houses, which includes passing another cloture vote(60 votes) in the Senate. Once it gets the 60 votes for cloture, then a simple majority is all thats required for passage.

Budget reconciliation, on the other hand, is not subject to the 60 vote cloture rule. However it is only for budgetary matters, taxing and spending, not for major legislative action like health care.

Geez, didn't you learn this in high school? Or were you smoking too much dope then?

Oeilsevere| 3.23.10 @ 2:40AM

@Adri: you're wasting your time; none of those "patriots" in search of a reason, a cause for their mal-de-vivre, either understands reconciliation nor can they point to a specific prevision in the bill that "takes away their rights" and "freedom"... lol

http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query="tea+party"+"circus"+newleftmedia&search;_type=&aq=f

http://blog.sunlightfoundation.....ion-votes/

The most amazing fact about the disoxygenized brains' arguments is that MOST of them, their kids and grandkids, WILL BENEFIT from this reform. MOST mouth-breathing, Witches-of-Salem-type, mob-hungry buffoons at Tea Party rallies DO NOT make over 200 000$ a year... hahahaha
*sigh*...
Can't wait 'til the Ivy League elite finally and irreversibly RULES over the cerebrally-disadvantaged inbred population and their offspring.
And as for the ones who DO manage to read more than one book in their lifetime (the Bible...): perhaps the Southern accent will FINALLY disappear once and for all, as we assimilate them and convince them to let go of their hillbilly identity...! mmmmwahahahaha!!!

Shamus| 3.4.10 @ 2:13PM

The governor is a Democrat in West Virginia, so presumably a younger Democrat would follow Byrd.

dave| 3.4.10 @ 4:11PM

oof oof| 3.4.10 @ 11:47AM

Sen. Byrd is about 200 years old, isn't his time up soon? And is it morally wrong to visit death upon people who are seizing power in order to destroy your God given, unalienable rights?

oof oof| 3.4.10 @ 5:18PM

If it reaches that point where they are successful at destroying the checks and balances, then NO.
4 boxes that guarantee liberty:
soap box
ballot box
jury box
and if the first 3 fail.....
ammo box

TabbyCat| 3.4.10 @ 7:20PM

Meee-Ow!

Conrad Spiracy| 3.4.10 @ 5:39PM

That to secure these rights, governments are instituted among men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed. That whenever any form of government becomes destructive to these ends, it is the right of the people to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their safety and happiness.

Declaration of Independence
Auth. Thomas Jefferson

Con Spiracy
Excelsior!

darcy| 3.5.10 @ 2:47AM

These are thoughts we temperate ones ponder: If we're so beside ourselves with rage and disgust at King Ozymandias's treacherous machinations, imagine what the more mercurial ones in our midst must be cogitating on.

You can push a people only so far, then you have only yourself to blame for the consequences, witness the chagrin of King George when he lost the colonies.

toneyal| 3.5.10 @ 8:12AM

The guys in the SF bay area who used Mexico City as the test lab for their "Swine Flu" will be moving their next round into DC.

Simpleton| 3.4.10 @ 1:17PM

First, you need to get out of your double-wide, goober.

Brushing your tooth would be second!

Conrad Spiracy| 3.4.10 @ 5:37PM

Hold your water. If ObamanationCare doesn't pass, let's do it peacefully in '10 and '12.

BUT... keep your powder dry.

Con Spiracy

Excelsior!

ZJC86| 3.4.10 @ 8:10PM

"Ye that oppose, not only the tyranny, but the tyrant, stand forth!"
-Thomas Paine-
"Rebellion to tyranny is Obedience to God!"
-Benjamin Franklin-

ol' Yankee| 3.4.10 @ 11:02AM

I'm ready for the games. I'm gonna start with not paying my income taxes this year. Then I'm going to see if I can qualify for food stamps. Then I'm taking all my money out of the bank before Obama can get to it.

Walter| 3.4.10 @ 12:26PM

On your last point, I have to admit that I've been wondering about the security of my savings for some time now.

It's never been covered in the MSM (Surprise!! Shock!!), but I personally saw news articles back in the 90's how some were advising Clinton that an untapped source of new taxation was the tax-free income being earned on people's 401(k) (and IRA) plans and how that could be taxed. Now, early in O's administration, there was news of advise (again, not in the MSM, but reporting that I personally read) that 401(k)'s be "appropriated" and the funds diverted to add life to the Social Security system and "redistribute" some of that wealth. Arguments were put forth that only the "rich" had 401(k)'s (I have one and I'm not rich), that they were bad investments considering the recent losses in the stock market and that most plans, only introduced in the last couple of decades, weren't that big anyway, around $40K.

Now, let me say, this wasn't scare reporting from questionable sources, but economic reporting from trustworthy, mainstream economic periodicals. I don't remember if they were in the Financial Times or on the Bloomberg site.

So, personally, I plan on hitting my IRA as soon as legally possible, to remove that prize from the appropriator's sights.

One last point, see if you can find an essay entitled "The United States of Argentina". I read it a while back, maybe on WND. It lays out what a powerhouse nation and economy Argentina was at the start of the 20th century (and, I think, even up into the 30's). And how the Perons brought it down, how they ran a government that picked winners (their family, friends and supporters) and losers (the middle-class) and how run-away inflation "put the final nail in the coffin" of the middle class. Unfortunately, this sounds way too familiar.

Mike Giles| 3.4.10 @ 4:25PM

Grabbing 401k's would mean the end of the Democratic party. It isn't just money, it's money that has been saved over decades. The anger would be unimaginable.

darcy| 3.5.10 @ 2:57AM

To Mike Giles:

http://www.zerohedge.com/artic.....ation-401k

The treasury wants your feedback. I hope you give it to them, big time.

And yet, this is exactly what is being discussed in secret meetings.

ggoblue| 3.4.10 @ 6:41AM

ah, but he really is going to end the divide between red and blue states....they will all be red by 2012!

ps...how did we ever let the pinkos flip the color coding of the parties? when reagan beat carter the republican states were blue and the dems had the red....makes a lot more sense.

L. Ross| 3.4.10 @ 10:30AM

I have often wondered the exact same thing. All Republican campaign signs are mostly blue vs Democrat signs which are mostly red. Tim Russert was an idiot.

Occam's Razor| 3.4.10 @ 10:59AM

Russert was also a Liberal scumbag to boot.

Walter| 3.4.10 @ 12:30PM

I agree that he was a scumbag. Don Imus made him a multi-millionaire by endlessly touting his books and Russert threw him under the bus when Imus needed him most.

Truth| 3.4.10 @ 1:26PM

Russert is the Liberal who allowed Dick Cheney to come on his show and 'get his message out' unchallenged. Repeatedly.
Very liberal of him.

Ouhllaalalalala| 3.4.10 @ 1:35PM

Will you may disagree with Tim Russert's points of view, the man is dead. No need to berate him, when he is dead. Let the dead rest in peace.

radicalmoderate| 3.4.10 @ 3:13PM

The far edges of the spectrum of lies in both directions these days is beyond comprehension. You can choose whatever color you like, choose whatever falsehoods you wish to call the truth and live in an exaggerated and irritated world of loathing and name calling if you like. I prefer a more pragmatic focused approach. The middle ground is fertile with lots of room to grow. It is trying to find new roots beyond all the B.S. rhetoric of blue vs red vs blue. Russert walked to the center most of his life and was in the crossfire of both extemes for doing so. Those who choose to enjoy themselves by always looking for the enemy in us all will never solve anything. If you wish to remain part of the problem and not have the courage to find a common solution you will be part of what is the beginning of the end of what could be a better country. Today it is looking less and less like the one as we once knew . "It ain't no Tea Party and at ain't no Communist Party." The main reason our government is broken is overt partisanship and the fact that every well healed interest group that can muster the money base or scream loud enough over the airwaves can muster the votes that keeps their coffers filled with our money. A more libertarian fiscal conservative approach would be nice but no government or too little government is the road to pure anarchy. It needs to be made to work twice as good with half the money instead of half as good with twice the money. Afterall we only get the government and the media we deserve because "we are it."

rwt| 3.4.10 @ 12:45PM

Boy, you said it. I thought I was the only one who was irritated at this. We couldn't do anything about it before, but now that there is Fox, perhaps they will lead the way in their future politics broadcasts, and show blue for right, red for left. Nobody watches the other channels, anyway.

Erick Erickson might have a bit of a dilemma with a name change, though, but I 'spect he'd get over it.

Ole Sarge| 3.4.10 @ 3:05PM

I think you can thank the evil msm. They are devious like that.

Bob From District 9| 3.4.10 @ 4:22PM

Easy. When Reagan won democratic states were red. Then Reagan ran the whole country into the red and the republican side became red. Hence the red states are republican.

ggoblue| 3.4.10 @ 7:18PM

"all spending shall originate in the house"

tip oniell ran the house under reagans watch. i guarantee you reagan would have signed a balanced budget.

DNC Talking Points Drew| 3.4.10 @ 7:41AM

HEY SHREW (DREW)---WHERE ARE YOU? GLORIA? TOO MANY DOUBLE FRAPPACINO LATTE CUSTOMERS THIS MORNING?

THE WALL STREET JOURNAL CALLED OBAMBI A LIAR THIS MORNING. WELCOME TO REALITY YOU MORONS.
Every argument has been made. Everything that there is to say about health care has been said, and just about everybody has said it," President Obama declared yesterday as he urged Democrats to steamroll his plan through Congress. What hasn't been heard, however, is even a shred of White House honesty about the true costs of ObamaCare, or its fiscal consequences.

Nearby, we reprint Wisconsin Republican Paul Ryan's remarks at the health summit last week, which methodically dismantle the falsehoods—there is no other way of putting it—that Mr. Obama has used to sell "reform" and repeated again yesterday. No one in the political class has even tried to refute Mr. Ryan's arguments, though he made them directly to the President and his allies, no doubt because they are irrefutable. If Democrats are willing to ignore overwhelming public opposition to ObamaCare and pass it anyway, then what's a trifling dispute over a couple of trillion dollars?

At his press conference yesterday, Mr. Obama claimed that "my proposal would bring down the cost of health care for millions—families, businesses and the federal government." He said it is "fully paid for" and "brings down our deficit by up to $1 trillion over the next two decades." Never before has a vast new entitlement been sold on the basis of fiscal responsibility, and one reason ObamaCare is so unpopular is that Americans understand the contradiction between untold new government subsidies and claims of spending restraint. They know a Big Con when they hear one.

Mr. Obama's fiscal assertions are possible only because of the fraudulent accounting and budget gimmicks that Democrats spent months calibrating. Readers can find the gory details in Mr. Ryan's pre-emptive rebuttal nearby, though one of the most egregious deceptions is that the bill counts 10 years of taxes but only six years of spending.

The real cost over a decade is about $2.3 trillion on paper, Mr. Ryan estimates, and even that is a lowball estimate considering how many people will flood to "free" health care and how many businesses will be induced to drop coverage. Mr. Obama claimed yesterday that the plan will cost "about $100 billion per year," but in fact the costs ramp up each year the program exists. The far more likely deficits are $460 billion over the first 10 years, and $1.4 trillion over the next 10.

What Mr. Ryan calls "probably the most cynical gimmick" deserves special attention, which is known in Washington as the "doc fix." Next month Medicare physician payments are scheduled to be cut by 22% and deeper thereafter, though Congress is sure to postpone the reductions as it always does. Failing to account for this inevitability takes nearly a quarter-trillion dollars off the ObamaCare books and by itself wipes out the "savings" that the White House continues to take credit for.

Some in the liberal cheering section now claim that this Medicare ruse isn't Mr. Obama's problem because it was first promised by Republicans and Bill Clinton in 1997. But then why did Democrats include the "doc fix" in all early versions of the bill to buy the support of the American Medical Association, only to dump this pricey item later when hiding it would make it easier to fake-reduce the deficit?

The President was (miraculously) struck dumb by Mr. Ryan's critique, and in his response drifted off into an irrelevant tangent about Medicare Advantage, while California Democrat Xavier Becerra claimed "you essentially said you can't trust the Congressional Budget Office." But Mr. Ryan was careful to note that he didn't doubt the professionalism of CBO, only the truthfulness of the Democratic gimmicks that the budget gnomes are asked to score.

Yesterday Mr. Obama again invoked the "nonpartisan, independent" authority of CBO, which misses the reality that if you feed the agency phony premises, you are going to get phony results at the other end.

The President also claimed the reason his plan is in trouble, and the reason Democrats must abuse the Senate's rules to ram this plan into law, is that "many Republicans in Congress just have a fundamental disagreement over whether we should have more or less oversight of insurance companies." So most of Mr. Obama's first year in office has been paralyzed over nothing more than minor regulatory hair-splitting. This is so preposterous that the President can't possibly believe it.

Congress's spring break begins on March 29, and Democratic leaders plan on jamming this monster through Congress before then. Americans have to hope that enough rank-and-file Democrats aren't as deaf to fiscal honesty as this President.

JB| 3.4.10 @ 10:58AM

AMEN AND AMEN.WELL SAID..
HOW CAN ANYONE DISPUTE THE FACTS?.

Bob From District 9| 3.4.10 @ 4:25PM

"No one in the political class has even tried to refute Mr. Ryan's arguments, though he made them directly to the President and his allies, no doubt because they are irrefutable. "

Mr Ryan made them to republicans also, and they didn't adopt them.

If Democrats are willing to ignore overwhelming public opposition to ObamaCare and pass it anyway, then what's a trifling dispute over a couple of trillion dollars?

The public supports health care reform, not only by a large margin, but with the support of republican leaders. The only difference is in what reform.

Since the republicans don't have any real plan for reform, the democrats must pass theirs by default.

Ok, the republicans do have a plan, "Die Quietly".

LiveFreeOrDie| 3.4.10 @ 6:33PM

You are a LIAR! Or, possibly, retarded. Republicans HAVE offered up a plan. Pull your head out of your ass! I could provide a dozen links but this site only allows two.

http://www.cbsnews.com/blogs/2.....3897.shtml

http://online.wsj.com/article/.....41517.html

martin j smith| 3.4.10 @ 8:04AM

BHO is a cross politically between Stalin and Mousolini ( Communism and Fascism ) and his fellow travelers in thge leadershio are behaving similarly. So, finally will the Republican Party" get it " and it is really time to cally out and more importantly vote out RINOS.

That Doctor in white coat bit is really funny. One can think in terms of BHO's lack of touch with reality and these are his shrinks. But, truth be told, this actually serious ( also funny ). The no so funny part of this theater is that these are your typical totalitarian stage props. Like Greek columns.( if you recall ).

As I have said, while I want the republican Party to succeed in stiping BHO's agenda, I am not at all sure that they have the guts, the will and the courage to deal with him. They need all the help they can get.

Lazy Jack| 3.4.10 @ 8:06AM

I am reminded of Ahab. Perhaps healthcare is the harpoon with which our democracy will finally be brought to heel. Yes, Obama as Ahab, Pelosi as Queequeg, and Reid as Fedallah. Not only are the characters similar, but Moby Dick shares a trait with the purported benefits of nationalizing healthcare. They are both works of fiction.
Abraham Lincoln called it a lullaby during his campaign against Douglas. What he meant was the political promises contrived to make people feel comfortable enough that they would sleep through the important debates (then it was slavery) and allow the back room deals to be made. In this case the democrats are allowing the lullaby to lure them into voting for healthcare legislation that will indenture (by way of the unconstitutional mandate to purchase insurance) every man, woman and child in this country with no demonstrable return to the people.
It seems there is ample statistical evidence that as the welfare state has grown fatter in the years since 1932 GDP growth has abated (For you non-believers, see Department of Commerce, OMB, BEA, and Federal Reserve historical data, among others). Education and innovation associated with a robust capitalist democracy also appear to be an endangered species on this continent. In other words, every time the government’s helping hand is extended, we appear to grow poorer as a nation and as a people. But listen to the lullaby of free healthcare for all, and all will be well.

Best,

Lazy Jack

http://thanksforthelaughs.word.....onscience/

elainej| 3.4.10 @ 8:08AM

He is a chronic liar, he could care less if anyone has healthcare--it's clear and simple, a takeover of our lives and the economy. I strongly urge him to increase his intake of alcohol and tobacco--if that doesn't do him in--maybe we can IMPEACH his lying, treasonous a$$.

Al Adab| 3.4.10 @ 12:07PM

CAUTION:
Can you say President Biden?

ConservativePatriot82| 3.4.10 @ 11:42PM

Yeah, & can you say "Good Lord, ANOTHER Blame LOSER in the white-house." Biden is as stupid as is B.H.O. is a Dishonest Lying 'POS' !!.... And then, don't even THINK about the speaker A-Hole of the House getting in if something happened to Biden. It's the 'Freakin' 3 Stooges.... We're screwed till 2012. Thanks to all you Idiots that voted in this rotten A-Hole, you buncha' Morons...

JP| 3.4.10 @ 8:14AM

The key now is whether Pelosi can gin up 218 votes. If Stupak and his so-called Pro Life Dems hold firm, she will be at least 17 votes short. But again, we've seen many a Dem fold. Remember, the House must vote Yes to the Senate version as is -no amendments, no riders, nothing.

In my own district, Rep Donnely (D) talks as if negogiations are still on-going. In an interview this morning he spoke about incorporating a number of major GOP initiatives as if he was the one who invented them. His bit of misdirection indicates that he will vote Yes to the Senate version. Not once did he mention the costs, the abortion language, or the mandates. Like other Blue Dogs, his short political career appears to be coming to an end.

Gill O’Teen ✝✡| 3.4.10 @ 1:54PM

If the house-of-ill-repute under madame botoxi passes the sin-8 “version as is -no amendments, no riders, nothing” there is need to go noo-cue-lar. All that is needed then is for beavisbud to sign the bill and poof! We all live in a province of koo-bah. You need to listen more to Limbaugh than to msm.

Gill O’Teen ✝✡
gill.Oteen07041776@gmail.com
Celebrate Galt Day 4/15/2 Yo (aka 2010 A.D.)
Only 1,053 days to go!

Shamus| 3.4.10 @ 2:25PM

Only 216 votes are needed due to 3 resignations and one death.

coal carrier| 3.4.10 @ 8:14AM

This Marxist knows his party will go down in defeat at midterms because of this massive program. He is not stupid. He can read the polls. He doesn’t care about his fellow democrats; he only cares about what the presidential histories will say about him if this program passes. I don’t believe he really cares about his own reelection. What he wants is his name attached to this program. A program that the progressives have been trying to foster on the American people since Teddy Roosevelt.

So he brings in the Repubs with a televised dog and pony show. He knows if he gets 1 Repub to sign on, then during the next election cycle he and his party can say it was a bipartisan program. However, sitting at this photo-op, he already knew that he and his party would use the reconciliation process, regardless of what the Repubs had to offer or suggested.

I knew this guy was a phony from the first day of his presidential campaign. Openness, what a joke.

Bill Hussein O'Stalin| 3.4.10 @ 8:16AM

If you ram the bill through in opposition to the public, it isn't that you have abandoned the Presidency, you've simply made it clear you're a dictator.

Shamus| 3.4.10 @ 8:16AM

This legislation will become the biggest issue in the coming election if it somehow gets passed. And if the election cedes control of the legislature, then it can be dismantled over the next term. No matter how you view the merits, this is a disaster for the ruling party, who are now damned if they do and damned if they don't. If nothing passes, they will be seen as useless. The bill they are pushing is front loaded with pain, as tax increases go into effect right away while benefits take many years to become effective, so the electorate will probably not favor the results should it become law.

DNC Talking Points Drew| 3.4.10 @ 8:35AM

We're looking at over a 100 seat flip in the House.

I said in Jan 2007 that I wanted Hillary in the WH because after 8 years of hearing how great Clinton was (yeah, right) and 8 years of how "stupid" Bush was, that the American people needed to be reminded that A) Clintons were criminals and not that great and B) Bush wasn't the idiot portrayed by the Lyin media.
I said back then----we need someone to drive the country over a cliff to regain momentum. My partner and friends looked at me like I was nuts.
Well look where we are today.

So instead of Clinton----we got Obama. Thank God!

He will not serve out his first term. I said it at the beginning. I'll say it again.
First off, he doesn't have it in him to stay this long at something. He has no passion. Zip. Zero.
The guy is passion-less. No matter what you do---even Prez----if you don't have it----you don't have it.

Carter didn't have it. Johnson didn't have it. Reagan did----and yes, Clinton did. Bush I didn't.
Bush II did.

Obama will step aside and allow another historic Prez to take shape--Hillary.
Why did she take Sec State? Glaringly obvious. To get foreign policy experience she was sorely lacking (Like Obama had any). He has already told her he was not running.

He will set up a re-election campaign. Raise millions and announce he will use that money for the good of the cause (himself). Look at Kerry. He kept tens of millions after his losing campaign in 2004 and Hillary kept her money AND her campaign office open.

So I hope Shrew/Drew, Copydeft and InGlorious give lots and lots of money to Obama so they don't have a nickel left to give to Hillary.

When The (D)one announces he is not running after looking like he will----that gut-punch-stomach feeling won't go away for a long time.

And their time spent here will be a ginormous waste of time.

2013 will be our best year yet.

Grzmlyk| 3.4.10 @ 9:36AM

Drew, I agree with most of your comments, but I don't think Obama will resign before his first term is up. He's far, far too impressed with himself for that.

Remember, he thinks he's a great man; his messianism knows no bounds and is certainly not mitigated by any impingement of reality on his world view. When he looks out at the political landscape, he doesn't see it as it is, he sees a flattering reflection of his own suffocating self esteem.

Besides, the perks of being adolescent-in-chief are too irresistable. He's already proven that he and his queen like to live large at taxpayers' expense.

But I agree he won't run for reelection because he knows he'll lose, and lose BIG. That is, he won't run again as things look now.

You can never predict the course of events or the caprice of the electorate, and while many tout conservatism's nascent resurgence, I think, sadly, no such thing is underway. It is merely the swing of the pendulum, which will swing back to the Dems after the next Republican president is pilloried and the Republican congress blows its advantage.

The only thing that will interrupt this metronomic predictability is a collapse of our economic system - and even if that does happen, I'm not so sure true capitalism won't be successfully tarred by those who have a vested interest in gaming the system - Big Lobby, Big Union, Big Wall Street, Big Auto and GE, among others.

humbucker| 3.4.10 @ 8:41AM

The majority of Americans polled are against this horrible bill and the 2.5 TRILLION of debt it will create.

Check out hughhewitt's blog. There is a list of Congress reps and "reverse the vote" target lists -those who voted yes but might switch to no. Obama made it clear he wanted to hear from the people, so please give them a call a tell them how you feel.

Alan Brooks| 3.4.10 @ 8:42AM

Shamus' post makes sense. But the underlying cause is that Obama can't abandon his constituency just like THAT.
Many of his supporters want a serious attempt at changing the discussion of healthcare.
What do I personally think? the minutiae is tiresome-- it's like global warming discussion, the graphs get tiring to look at.
I am voting for Obama because my judgment call is he can learn to triangulate as well as Clinton did starting in '95. I'm a conservative in that I go by the past. And your opinion on my presidential voting preferences means nothing to me. A month or two ago, Old Texican said I'll go to Hell if I vote for Obama; in that case he'll have company.

Great Grandma| 3.4.10 @ 11:00AM

Alan Brooks I read your comments and have concluded that you lack contact with reality. You have to be out of touch in order be to still be supporting our Liar in Chief who is also out of touch with reality. Doesn't honesty mean something to you? Even if Obama learns to triangulate he'll still be a dishonest liar.

EJM| 3.4.10 @ 8:42AM

The photograph with the two in white coats behind Obama is unintentionally hilarious. They look like they're letting him have his Napoleonic moment, before coaxing him back into his padded cell at the mental ward. Hope he has coverage for a long stay there.

Tim| 3.4.10 @ 8:46AM

"We keep you alive to serve this ship. Row well and live."

bob s| 3.4.10 @ 11:55AM

Number 41- let me die.

Walter| 3.4.10 @ 12:37PM

Cool. Ben Hur, no?

Copyleft| 3.4.10 @ 8:47AM

It's true--Obama DID foolishly promise to try to work with the Confederate-oops-Republican Party. It was a stupid idea, and it was doomed to failure.

Heck, he offered them THEIR OWN proposals in the legislation, and they still refused to vote for it. Facts are facts, folks; they were always going to oppose healthcare reform, no matter how many concessions the Dems made. Why pretend otherwise?

No, working with the regressives was a bad idea. But give him credit, he did make the attempt. He gave them a chance to participate in the process, even though he didn't have to. (Dumb move!) And they, predictably, threw another tantrum and refused--they even tried to issue ultimatums, as if they WEREN'T the minority party! It was funny to watch.

But enough of that nonsense.The Republicans have proven they can't put partisanship aside, so screw 'em. Let's get on with some reform and let them whine from the sidelines... it's what they're best at.

Have you noticed how easily the fringe right has picked up their old "government is bad" slogans and dusted them off for reuse? It was so awkward watching them try to argue against government for eight years when they WERE the government! Now they're back in their comfort zone. They should be glad!

I know I am. (laugh)

CB| 3.4.10 @ 9:02AM

Uh, just when did Obama "try to work with" the Republicans on health care? Were some of them secretly ushered into those Dem-only meetings? ALL of the initial discussions excluded the Republicans. But I guess that fact doesn't fit in to your response, does it, Copyleft?

Q| 3.4.10 @ 10:49AM

Obama has met with Republican leaders at least twice. Reid foolishly setup his 'gang of six' panel (3 dems & 3 repubs) even though repubs are the smallest minority in decades. Repubs submitted and successfully attached HUNDREDS of amendments to the bills.

How many times do the Dems need to have the Repubs pull the football away at the last moment (ala Charley Brown & Lucy) before they use this overwhelming majority (that was The People talking -- the same people you all here claim to care about) to pass the healthcare changes that The People are overwhelmingly asking for (check any poll you want when they actually bother to poll on the CONTENT of the bills and not just the media anti-healthcare reform hype)?

I'm tired of the Dems trying to be friends with the Repubs who obviously have no intention of being friendly. They have the majority: use it or lose it.

Warrior| 3.4.10 @ 9:50AM

Foolish progressive/liberal. They never needed the Republicans and still don't. Keep throwing the talking point smoke screen up like the lemming/moron you appear to be. The only reason this bill has taken a year and will be a failure is because the liberals went it alone and couldn't stop fighting amongst themselves. You own it, so enjoy it. When the bill ruins what is left the USA, maybe the liberals can blame the bad weather of this winter as to why it came out a lot worse than expected.

Q| 3.4.10 @ 10:52AM

Actually, you're leaving out the hundreds of amendments (R)s got attached to the bills. I agree with you, however: they never needed the (R)s and they should have gone it alone in month two after having given the (R)s plenty of opportunity they aren't interested in any change whatsoever.

They need to remove the amendments and pass the original bills. Hell, they need to put a public option in with a ten-year transition plan to single-payer.

Then you ingrates can _really_ complain about the world ending.

Grzmlyk| 3.4.10 @ 11:32AM

INGRATES?

There's your liberal attitude in a nutshell: As subjects of the government, we owe obeisance to our Dear Leader and his fellow thugs, and if we aren't sufficiently GRATEFUL for the their nanny-state micro-managment of our lives and the fraction of our incomes they don't steal from us, we are ingrates.

Earth to liberal moron: Our reprensentatives are supposed to serve us, not the other way around.

Without meaning to, you have succinctly revealed the left's neverending love affair with tyranny.

I'll make you a bet: If a public option passes, within 10 years it'll bankrupt, nobody will be happy with it and we will have far fewer doctors, far less innovation and a less healthy populace.

But why let reality intrude upon your liberal wet dream?

Al Adab| 3.4.10 @ 12:11PM

You've got it GRZ,
Just who do we plebs think we are to second guess the Man who has the great brain, the "proper" education, the correct beliefs (faith) in central planning and control, and who certainly has an enlightened view and knows what is good for us all? Why any of us fail to follow our "Leader" is beyond comprehension. Some might even think that "dissent is the highest form of patriotism" or some such.

Nice job GRZ.

murph| 3.4.10 @ 1:17PM

"left's neverending love affair with tyranny. "

Oh man, you are just too funny. Look at what this legislation is trying to do (extend health care benefits and reform a system skewed towards health care providers) and then ask yourself why opponents of it are so in love with the current system?

YES - deny women insurance because they were pregnant
YES - deny people coverage because their weight was incorrectly listed on an application
YES - allow insurers to pick and choose who they will and will not cover - shifting costs to subsidized hospital emergency rooms and or killing people unable to pay higher rates.

The far right is in love with this kind of economic tyranny - or else they'd have done something about health care when they had 6 years of government domination. They did nothing , except: spy on Americans without warrants, expand the federal government with the TSA, and assert broad new presidential authority.

Far from being afraid of these actions, the right lustily cheered them on. The GOP's only fear is that the dems will use the majority they won in the last elections.

Bipartisanship appears more virtuous when you are out of power - so it's been very odd that the dems have had the tools to march forward and have continually asked the GOP to participate. Each time, concessions were made- and the GOP refused to vote for the final bill. Witness the stimulus bill, or the heath care votes in the senate. Find me a GOP member who would cross the aisle to vote for policies they had suggested previously. Good luck.

Good on the dems for finally realizing that the GOP is not an honest partner in this process.

They want the process to fail - and the sooner the Dems cut them out of the picture - the sooner we can see legislation getting passed.

Grzmlyk| 3.4.10 @ 1:53PM

Please. Get a mind - stop reading from your talking points.

Or do you like being a central tunnel support in the edifice of tyranny?

Al Adab| 3.4.10 @ 2:17PM

See GRZ, Murph proves the point.

It is a matter of faith with the Left that government controlled anything is preferable to free markets. They simply chose their target, define it as a "right" and go full speed ahead to take over.

When did a Doctor visit become anything other than a commodity like any other? Pay for what you as an individual want and prioritize. We make spending decisions every day.

Grzmlyk| 3.4.10 @ 2:42PM

Not only that, Al Adab, but their version of history is highly selective. All of the trolls on this site are trying to convice us that the Democrats did due diligence in trying to get Repubs on board.

I mean, they might want to impugn their own intelligence, but they aren't fooling anyone. And some of the other trolls are saying we have to "catch up" to other industrialized countries - I wonder if they mean Britain or Canada, whose health care "reforms" have destroyed each nation's health.

I know I shouldn't be surprised, but it seill never ceases to amaze me that these people are so credulous, and whenever their initiatives fail - as they have for the last century - they never learn the lessons.

If these fools only realized the truth: There are two reasons health care is so expensive in this country - and, by the way, prices have remained stable for the last five years:

1) Innovation: Like it or not, new technologies/procdures/drugs cost more money. How much did a computer cost when they first came on the market as opposed to the fraction of that cost that superior machines cost today?

2) Government intervention/regulation. From defensive medicine to building state-by-state insurance monopolies to mandates forcing insurnace companies to cover an ever-expanding litany of frivolous conditions to welding health insurance to employers' payrolls, it is government intervention that has created the inflated prices we experience.

It never occurs to these people that prices have continually gone down for those procedures that aren't covered by insurance, like plastic surgery and lasix surgery.

But again, as you say, their doctrinaire love of TYRANNY trumps all. Hey, single-payer health care is good for all, no matter how many people die under its umbrella.

There are only two kinds of liberal: the fool and the crook.

murph| 3.4.10 @ 3:21PM

Faith has nothing to do with it.

Government demonstrates is ability to fail us pretty much every day. Witness the Bush administration.

But this knee-jerk idiocy that government is incapable of doing right ignores all the many government services that quietly make everyone's lives a little easier. They just don't get victory laps.

The post office, public libraries (and before you spout off about how the post office loses money - ask yourself when was the last time the DoD turned a profit?) Government provides services that business wouldn't touch.

Imagine if the post office was run by a health insurer.

They'd bill you every month, whether or not you sent anything - then if you wanted to send a big package - they'd refuse because it was too big, or going too far. And once they refused you, they could stop sending any mail for you.

Grzmlyk: Look at how long the dems wasted time talking with the gang of 6. The idea was to get a bipartisan bill - and the GOP members dragged it out and the day after they released the bill THEY agreed to - denounced it.

The GOP has shown no interest in helping the uninsured. Their 60 billion "proposal" would have actually left more people uninsured than there are today.

The GOP's big idea? Deregulate insurance.
Because large, unregulated financial institutions fresh from destroying our economy - promise to do better with health care.

Talk about a leap of faith! This fundamentalist belief that unregulated business will automatically serve the public good was thoroughly debunked when Wall Street ran to Hank Paulson and demanded that every taxpayer save them from their stupidity.

Grzmlyk seems to think health care is simple. The inability of numerous governments to address the problem demonstrates how wrong that viewpoint is.

It's a mess - Medicare, industry pressure groups, insurers, doctors all fighting to preserve their share of the current system.

Two myths that need to go away about health care: 1) It's isn't simple
2) Our health care system is "the best in the world"

Our system is a mess, rising costs are killing us - and the GOP's answer has been "Let's prevent anything from changing"

Well I'm glad they'll finally be pushed aside.

Petronius| 3.5.10 @ 2:15AM

Keep stepping in it murph
I'm retired from the Postal Service and half the supervisors above me were on a par with a pet rock. If you want bureaucrats like them telling doctors how to take care of you, be my guest. And when the SEIU unionizes the few doctors who don't surrender their licenses and quit, I hope they go on strike the day you wind up in the e.r.

GrandCentralSta.| 3.4.10 @ 8:00PM

More like a central Lincoln tunnel support in the tube of tyranny. And he'll never get a mind because he left it on the subway platform. Heeh.

E.T.| 3.4.10 @ 1:16PM

Yes, earth to liberal moron (Q): Phone home.
Your Axelrod Trolling paycheck is waiting for you!
Oh that's right. You can get it electronically now. No problem!

BRW| 3.4.10 @ 10:32AM

Copyleft, do you ever get tired of being wrong and clueless? There are none so blind as those who will not see. That would be YOU!!! Enjoy your la la land utopian nanny dream state. Mr. Ryan steam rolled BHO at the HC summit with actual factual data and made the President look like the disinguinine putz that he is. Case Closed.
You & BHO need to pick up your football and leave the playground. No crying please.

bob s| 3.4.10 @ 11:57AM

Copyleft- do the initials F.O.S. mean anything to you? BTW, when you arrive back at Planet Earth, let us know.

JimE| 3.4.10 @ 10:01PM

COPYLEFT, The photo op is over , you and the other two mrons in picture hand the lab coats back over to Gibbs and get finished cleaning that toilet.

Eric Cartman| 3.4.10 @ 9:18AM

Another Sad Story from Barack Obama:

Barack Obama: "I will always remember a women I met in Detroit, Kwanitjta Jefferson. A crack addict and Jr. High dropout, Kwanitjta has 6 kids by 12 different fathers who had all abandon her by getting sent to prison for holding up liquor stores or simply moving on to the next available crack ho. She and her children are obese and have diabetes because their diet consists mainly of mac & cheese, Mickey's Malt, Cheetos and Pimp Juice because that's all her measly $900.00 a month in food stamps will allow her to buy.

Because of her long history of drug addiction and streetwalking, Kwanitjta has a myriad of health problems including but not limited to: diarrhea, constipation, blindness, dizziness, dry mouth and bleeding gums. She has flat-feet, fat-feet and pseudo- folliculitis from shaving her mustache and lady-beard. She suffers from scabies, rabies, babies and babies with scabies. Kwanitjta needs a new liver, kidneys, heart-valve, bivalve, gas valve and complete replacement of her lower bowel. But this is only the beginning of her tale.

When I was there, Kwanitjta told me a sad story. Her friends used to call her Weeblenitjta because like the famed Weeble toys that wobble but won't fall down, Kwanitjta was famous for staying up drunk and high for days without ever falling down - only wobbling down the street for another hook-up with another John! Today, after a dozen abortions and six children, Kwanitjta's breasts are too big. She is in dire need of breast reduction surgery so she may once again walk without falling over. Her small, 4'8", 480 pound frame just cannot handle her ginormous boobs. She is no longer that cute Weeblenitjta of her younger days, so playful, so dedicated to her craft.

Her new fiance', Juan " Borracho " Gonzales, AKA "Speedy", an illegal alien from Mexico, has recently ended up in Ford Hospital with his own list of health problems. Like Kwanitjta, he suffers from scabies and rabies, but he also has bed bugs and head bugs. He recently killed a family of four on their way home from church while driving drunk and is now in Ford Hospital awaiting a liver transplant after his body cast is removed. Not to mention his legal troubles. The court has recently fined him $500.00 for the above mentioned accident and some Republicans want to deport him back to Mexico, so he needs a lawyer for that. We are taking donations at the White House web site for Juan's defense fund, but we can talk about that later when I cram my Amnesty Bill down America's throat this summer. Back to Kwanitjta.

Now, after all that, you would think the story couldn't get any worse - you would be wrong! Kwanitjta recently applied for insurance and was told she could not get it due to pre-existing conditions! The insurance company - only worried about profits - turned her down! This should not happen in America! Where greedy insurance companies can dictate to Kwanitjta what they will and will not pay for! Who do they think they are?! In my plan, millions of Kwanitjtas and Juans will be covered. Now, it may be true your grandma may have to do without that hip, but the old, white people have to do without now. It's time for the Kwanitjtas and Juans to take their righteous place! So join me and my Democrat Congress with my Health Care Redistribution Plan! Thank you. "

oof oof the dog| 3.4.10 @ 10:08AM

You left out the sad,sad tale of how they, too, all have to share a set of dead sister's teeth, including all the babies, baby daddies, boyfriends, dogs(which are pit bulls, which because they don't have their own teeth can no longer work fighting, so now their on welfare and food stamps too), and half the neighborhood, because all them rich, white folks are so greedy they won't pay 75% of their income to the "chosen One" so he can provide teeth for us, and where the hell is my tank of gas and my mortgage payment?

Pete| 3.4.10 @ 10:38AM

Like most liberal, "we know what is best for you" schemes, the poor will suffer the brunt of this and will be worse off. My guess is that over time healthcare will arrange itself like public and private schools. Sure, the public schools are "free" but what are you really getting? A mind is a terrible thing to waste, but a kidney transplant is a terrible thing to botch, if you can survive the 9 month wait to be seen. If this thing passes, I will immediately start a savings account so I can fly my family members to wherever the good doctors choose to relocate - they will command top dollar. I guess I can be thankful for the fact that I am not in med school right now...those poor saps must be scrambling.

Q| 3.4.10 @ 10:59AM

Quit yer whining: there is no single-payer system in the plan. The, currently, isn't even a public option.
You get to enjoy the fine private insurance programs you've enjoyed all along.
Maybe if you bothered to look into the details, you'd find out there are no 'death panels', there is no 'public insurance', the 'gubment' isn't going to decide squat for you: you get to continue making the bad decisions you've been making.

Oh, and maybe you should stop driving on the socialist public roads, drinking that socialist public water (and flushing it), calling that socialist public 911 emergency service when you have an accident or a dispute with a neighbor, going to the socialist public library, taking your kids to the socialist public park or the socialist public county fair or anything else that we as a citizenry have collectively decided are good things.

Great Grandma| 3.4.10 @ 11:13AM

Q, There may not be a single payor system in the healthcare bill but the tight regulations as to what people are allowed to purchase makes it, in practicality, a single payor system as soon as the insurance companies go bankrupt because premiums are regulated.

And there are "death panels" if you want to call the four panels that who will decide if you are allowed to get care and what kind of care you will receive if you're lucky enough to be allowed care.

To believe the lies the Dems are putting out you must be very naive and immature and at least 39 1/2 and still living with your parents.

What a life.

IQ| 3.4.10 @ 11:14AM

You mean the public roads that are falling apart (funny, the toll roads seem to be doing fine in my area). I have a well and a septic tank. Don't need a library since research can be done online much easier and books online are free; the parks are full of thug kids not using your precious library so I don't go there; and private fairs are fine with me.

You seem to think since communities have fairs we should all pay for your thuggy/druggy friends and their illegal alien pal's doctors. What an ahole!

murph| 3.4.10 @ 3:59PM

Wow, it's rare to see such smugness in someone so ignorant.

The free internet you feel makes libraries and books obsolete owes a considerable debt to the government.

So, You're welcome.

While you're happily building a bunker, waiting for Red Dawn or whatever - the rest of the nation is happy to leave you out of their deliberations.

And when you accidentally contract some terrible disease from contaminated well water (lovingly supplied by your local heavy industry) be sure to WALK your diseased self to the hospital and pay cash up front.

SV| 3.4.10 @ 8:27PM

The gov't gave us the internet. That's a new level of stupidity. The disease in your mind will kill you long before heavy industry does.

And I know about the DOD's arpanet. Idiot.

Barack Obama| 3.4.10 @ 10:43AM

Thank you, Off oof, for reminding me of that story. That is a tale of both greed and racism. You see, the dogs actually did get their teeth under a pilot pet insurance program from the city of Detroit. But Kwanitjta's luck once again turned bad. You see, the day the teeth came into the dog dentist office, Kwanitjta fell over and could not get back up without a 20-ton crane. Her fiancé, Juan, offered to go get the teeth while the crew worked to get Kwanitjta upright. Well, when he got to the dog dentist, no one there could speak Spanish. The only way Juan had to communicate he was there for the dog teeth was to point at his teeth and bark like a dog. Now, Juan is a high talker, so the dental assistant assumed he was there for the Chihuahua teeth. Juan went home with the Chihuahua teeth and power stapled them into the Pit Bull's mouth! Now the other dogs laugh at them and their tiny teeth and they have had to go to the Dog Whisperer for counseling. Of course, Kwanitjta was outraged and tried to argue with the insurance company, but they denied her claim again! This, in turn, led Juan to drink and kill those people that morning. All because the insurance company will not insure her dog's teeth. In my America, this doesn't happen. We will make sure dogs get their teeth and dog dentist receptionists can speak Spanish so this never happens again. Thank you again Oof oof, for reminding me of the greed driven tragedy!

Lullaby's, Legends and Lies| 3.4.10 @ 8:49PM

I hope someday that FOX makes a animated series, about the family that shares their dentures amongst each other. Starring the dog with the Chihuahua teeth, that the other dogs laugh at all the time, who has to go to the Dog Whisperer for treatment, for his low self esteem. This is a winning formula, that almost writes itself.

Oof, oof!!

Richard Baker| 3.4.10 @ 9:26AM

When I saw the white jacketed sycophants with the Kenyan, I was hoping that they had come to gently take him away for commitment. Shucks.

Warrior| 3.4.10 @ 9:51AM

That was one guest list that the Kenyan ensured the Secret Service strictly followed.

Q| 3.4.10 @ 11:00AM

Wow. Nothing overtly racist to see here folks... move along -- move along...

Louis Farrakhan| 3.4.10 @ 12:33PM

My friends, I was in the Mother Ship yesterday with Obama's preacher the Reverend Jerry Wright and the Commander of the Mothership told us to tell you WHITEY IS GUNNA KILL BARACK OBAMA! And he assured us that THE JEWS AND THEM CRACKERS ARE GUNNA KILL OBAMA! He also wanted to let you know WHITEY AND THE JEWS ARE EVIL! So peace be on Reverend Wright and our Brutha Obama. YOU GOTTA KILL WHITEY! Sorry, I couldn't hep myself. KILL THE JEWS! Yes my friends, the Commander gave us the order. Thank you.

Margie| 3.4.10 @ 1:10PM

To me, it looks like Pointdexter from Felix the Cat on one side, and Michelle Obama's Mom on the other. Obama looks photoshopped from a speech at the U.N., in the middle. And they all have that disconnected from reality look on their faces.

DNC Talking Points Drew| 3.4.10 @ 10:02AM

Copybereft,

I have to agree with another fellow Conservative commenter (Ken Old Texican). The more time Liberal Trolls like you spend here, the less time they have to:

Snort Cocaine (Obama)
Smoke Pot (Obama)
Commit Murder (Skakel and Teddy Kennedy)
Rape (Clinton)
Rape (Clinton)
Rape (Clinton)
Rape (Clinton)
Molest Children (Racine Wisconsin Mayor)
Embezzle (Rangel, Jefferson, etc.etc., etc. etc. etc)
Evade taxes (Geithner, Daschle, Rangel)
Commit Adultery (Edwards, Kennedy, Spitzer, Paterson, Clinton--AGAIN)
Steal from Constituents (Baltimore Mayor)
Take Bribes from Arabs (Murtha)
Rape (Smith-Kennedy nephew)
Lead the KKK- (Byrd)
Commit Fraud (Gore)
Lie (Gore)
Gay Harassment (Massa)
Racism (Deutsch)
Racism (Reid)

So back often---you hear? We want to keep our streets and kids safe from Liberals.

Keep it to the facts| 3.4.10 @ 10:11AM

And republicans are angels who have done nothing wrong? Give me a break... You are 100% biased. I could easily make a list like that of conservatives and republicans. However, I have mid terms, so I have to study or else I would post a reply to this. Maybe I will after mid terms.

DNC Talking Points Drew| 3.4.10 @ 10:36AM

I made that list in the same time it took for you to post.
I welcome your Repub "list" They have either resigned or are serving their sentences. Can't say the same for Libs.

Loser.

Q| 3.4.10 @ 12:26PM

Ah, no: they haven't all resigned. And they certainly didn't during the (R) majority. Is that really the criteria you are going by? It's okay if they broke the law, were perverts or unethical as long as they resigned?
Doesn't it strike you as odd the the (R)s that those who shout the loudest about 'God & Family' are also the ones most likely to be the biggest hypocrites? And that most of those doing the shouting are (R)? The same can be said about this 'fiscal conservative' BS.
At least the (D)s are honest about what they are doing. So, really, you are Ok with a bunch of lying, scheming, hypocritical, unethical (R)s as long as they resign when they are caught red-handed (or some other part of their anatomy)?

But, you made a specific comment about (R)s resigning due to their indiscretions. Let's see...

Bob Barr, Republican Congressman from Georgia. Sponsored the anti-gay Defense of Marriage Act, saying "The flames of hedonism, the flames of narcissism, the flames of self-centered morality are licking at the very foundation of our society, the family unit." Was married three times. Paid for his second wife's abortion. Failed to pay child support to the children of his first two wives and while married to his third and present wife was photographed licking whipped cream off of strippers at his inaugural party. Didn't resign.

Robert Bauman, (R) Maryland, was charged for attempting to solicit sex from a 16-year-old male prostitute. After the charges were made public, Bauman said he was suffering from alcoholism and entered himself into a court-supervised rehabilitation program, which, upon successful completion, resulted in the charges being dropped. Bauman stated he would continue his re-election campaign, and apologized to voters for his indiscretions. Didn't resign.

Jim Bunn Congressman of Oregon: With his success due in great part to support from the Christian Coalition, Bunn won his congressional seat, then immediately ditched his wife (and mother of his five children), married a staffer, and put his new wife on the state payroll for the unheard-of salary of $97,500. Didn't resign.

Dan Burton, Republican Congressman from Indiana who, while married, fathered a child by another woman. Burton was also chair of the House Committee on Government Reform and Oversight but that didn't stop him from going on paid golf junkets with people who had legislation before committees he was on. Didn't resign -- still serving.

Ken Calvert, Congressman (R-Ca), champion of the Christian Coalition and its "family values." Sued as an alimony deadbeat by his ex-wife. Said "We can't forgive what occurred between the President and Lewinsky." In 1993 he was caught by police receiving oral sex from a prostitute and attempted to flee the scene. Calvert was named one of the 15 most corrupt members of Congress by the liberal Citizens for Responsibility and Ethics in Washington. They accuse him of gaining personally from earmarks, making allegedly illegal land deals, and having questionable ties to a lobbying firm that is under invegstgation by the FBI. Didn't resign -- still serving.

Dan Crane, Republican Congressman from Illinois, married, father of six. Had sex with a minor working as a congressional page. Salon.com article --Bkmeyers 08:36, 3 October 2006 (PDT)On July 14, 1983 the House Ethics Committee concluded that Rep. Dan Crane (R-Ill.) had engaged in sexual relationships with minors, specifically 17-year-old congressional pages. Didn't resign.

John Peterson, Congressman (R-Pa), accused of sexual harassment and creation of a hostile work environment by six women. Peterson has refused to admit a crime, saying only "I may have been an excessive hugger." Didn't resign -- still serving.

Rick Santorum, used $100,000 of PA state funds earmarked for that state's school children to educate his own children, who were not residents of Pennsylvania. Didn't resign.

Ed Schrock, two-term Republican Congressman from Virginia, with a 92% approval rating from the Christian Coalition. Cosponsor of the Federal Marriage Amendment, consistently opposed gay rights. Married, with wife and kids. Withdrew his candidacy for a third term after tapes of him soliciting for gay sex were circulated. Didn't resign -- but, didn't run for re-election.

Don Sherwood, The former Republican member of the U.S. House of Representatives representing the 10th Congressional District of Pennsylvania. Eventually admitted to an affair with a woman 30 years younger than him, after she accused him of physical abuse and attempting to choke her. Didn't resign.

Bill Thomas Republican congressman, had an affair with Deborah Steelman, a health care lobbyist who steered huge campaign gifts to Thomas' war chest. Didn't resign.

Okay, those are the 11 that I found via google (with substantiation) that were 'naughty' and didn't resign or are even still serving. If you wanted to remove the 'resign' issue and look to state legislators, judges, or other 'upstanding community leaders', the list gets much, much bigger.

IQ| 3.4.10 @ 1:11PM

Wow! Are you that pathetic you wasted time researching Republican aholes because someone pointed out Democrat aholes? What a P.U.T.Z.!

Besides, Dems are the only ones who worship a drunk driver who murdered a woman by drowning her after driving drunk off a bridge into shallow water and swimming away! LOL He swam away! Didn't even bother to TRY to help her! LOL I mean, you traitorous assholes can never live that down!

Margie| 3.4.10 @ 1:20PM

Pity for them. They have to work extra hard these days!

Mama B| 3.4.10 @ 4:53PM

IQ: AMEN! If there is justice in the afterlife, Ted Kennedy will spend eternity reliving the last hours of Mary Jo Kopoechne's life, clawing at the seal on the rear window of a submerged car. He was "too dazed" to get help for her as he passed the fire station on his way home to call his attorney and campaign manager to cover his a$$. Where was his "True Compass" that night, I wonder? And he spent the next 47 years in the Senate, feeding at the public trough, supposedly the champion of the downtrodden, eager to help the huddled masses with YOUR money, while spending a paltry 2% of his own for charities (like Harvard and the Boston Pops). And championing womens' rights while being a perfect pig in his private life. What a hypocrite.

Petronius| 3.5.10 @ 2:33AM

We watched Teddy on closed circuit down here in Hell the other day. I'm delighted to report that he's very frustrated. He can't get to the bar because Bella Abzug has been sitting on his face for 2 weeks now and can't get up.

DNC Talking Points Drew| 3.4.10 @ 2:11PM

You had to Google??

Those were all off the top of my head (LMAO).
You people are so dumb, you even admit it.

You should have thought twice before admitting you had to [[[[[GOOGLE]]].

Come to think of it, just thinking would've sufficed.

Man, you Obama Mother Ship Worshippers are sssoooo "brave" coming here and sticking it to the man, man.

bob s| 3.4.10 @ 12:04PM

k.i.t.t.s.: didn't know the basket weaving and flower arranging cirricula HAD midterms!

Occam's Tool| 3.4.10 @ 11:02AM

Don't forget their worst crime: passing the cap and trade tax which would kill American business, based on faked science.

Keep it to the facts| 3.4.10 @ 10:03AM

Wow it seems we still have people who believe Obama is not a US citizen thus ineligible to hold the presidency of the United States. Ah, these people make me laugh...

Grzmlyk| 3.4.10 @ 10:10AM

Hey, if there are still people who believe that Obamacare will cover more people at less cost more efficiently than the private sector could, there are people who will believe ANYTHING.

Siegfried X| 3.4.10 @ 11:36AM

Probably the same ones who believe that 9/11 was a US government conspiracy.

Louis Jenkins| 3.4.10 @ 11:43AM

And we still have people in Kenya that say the Pretender n Chief was born there. Ok, so if he is a real certified bonafide US citizen, just show us a real certified bonafide Birth Certificate. Then I'll admit I'm wrong for having doubt, that Obama's kin are just a bunch of wierdos craving attention, I'll shut up on the topic, and the merriment can continue or cease.

So just show the proof. But ain't going to happen! Why?

Q| 3.4.10 @ 12:36PM

Hey, 'Birther': get over it.

The birth certificate has been shown. The laws for what is a 'bonafide Birth Certificate' vary from state to state. Maybe you county or state doesn't produce a document that looks the same as the ones produced in California, Washington, Nevada, Illinois, Hawaii, etc. They make look different over decades as designs change as well. I know for a fact that what is called a 'birth certificate' and how they look are different between California and Illinois since those are the states that I and my child were born in and they look different.

It's been verified again and again, and by the officials running the appropriate offices.

Are you really suggesting this is a 48-year conspiracy in the making (that's when the birth announcement was made in Honolulu)?

And you want people to take what you are saying as credible?

Wow.

Margie| 3.4.10 @ 1:21PM

LOL! And YOU actually believe that most Americans want a Socialist country?!

And you want people to take what you are saying seriously?
Wow.

Al Adab| 3.4.10 @ 3:16PM

You might do well to recall that the Left used McCain's birthplace- the canal zone- to question his qualifications. BTW if born to a US citizen anywhere in the world, one is a citizen.

Louis Jenkins| 3.4.10 @ 5:26PM

If the original birth certificate shown on the news news networks and blogs was in fact an official certificate, then pray tell why the governor of the Hawaii placed a seal order on it? CREDIBLE? Just asking why the secrecy? Verified again and again? If they're not on the approved list they can't verify anything.

This article from WND (just as reliable as the evening news or other statist blogs) states that indeed it happened. So what's being withheld? If there is indeed a bonafide certified Certificate of Birth and its such a benign document, why is it sealed? Close your eyes for a moment, and pretend, just imagine, if a Conservative presidential candidate had done the same.

Essentially we're being told "BIRTH CERTIFICATE? WE DON'T NEED NO STINKING BIRTH CERTIFICATE!"

HONOLULU, Hawaii – Although the legitimacy of Sen. Barack Obama's birth certificate has become a focus of intense speculation – and even several lawsuits – WND has learned that Hawaii's Gov. Linda Lingle has placed the candidate's birth certificate under seal and instructed the state's Department of Health to make sure no one in the press obtains access to the original document under any circumstances.
The governor's office officially declined a request made in writing by WND in Hawaii to obtain a copy of the hospital-generated original birth certificate of Barack Obama.
"It does not appear that Dr. Corsi is within any of these categories of persons with a direct and tangible interest in the birth certificate he seeks," wrote Roz Makuala, manager of constituent services in the governor's office, in an e-mailed response to a WND request seeking the information.
Those listed as entitled to obtain a copy of an original birth certificate include the person born, or "registrant" according to the legal description from the governor's office, the spouse or parent of the registrant, a descendant of the registrant, a person having a common ancestor with the registrant, a legal guardian of the registrant, or a person or agency acting on behalf of the registrant.
WND was told the official reason for denial of access to Obama's birth certificate would be authority granted pursuant to Section 338-18 of the Hawaii Revised Statutes, a provision the anonymous source claimed was designed to prevent identity theft.

Still, the source told WND confidentially the motivation for withholding the original birth certificate was political, although the source refused to disclose whether there was any information on the original birth certificate that would prove politically embarrassing to Obama.

Mama B| 3.4.10 @ 12:36PM

Oh, go study for your mid-terms, junior. "If you're young and a conservative, you have no heart. If you're old and a liberal, you have no brain!" You'll be out in the real world, sonny boy, away from your marxist (13%) and liberal (94%) professors' indoctrination classes, and will grow up soon enough.

Yosemeti Sam| 3.4.10 @ 10:18AM

" Obama Goes Nuclear ...."

This turkey is plumbing the lives and fortunes of
laW-abiding honest-working GOD-fearing Americans - down the drain of Socialism.

Via his ideological bent Wright Marxist driven - rearing.

You betcha!

Where's that fat wallet with all the monies to pay federal debt with - past, present or future?

In your back pocket?

You betcha!

BTW, I still want to know where that White House
Christmas tree ornament featuring Mao Zedong - is at.

This el supremo turkey in the White House and
his fellow democrat straggler flock in Congress
are looking up agape while its' raining liberalism
aka progressivism aided and abetted by the
LMSM PEN1 and treacherous campi brain-washers.

They'll all drown befittingly in adult conservative bent America.

The Pendulum swings.

You can fool some of the people - LIBERALS -
all the time; some of the people -INDEPENDENTS - some
of the time; but not all the people - CONSERVATIVES - all of the time.

George S| 3.4.10 @ 10:22AM

Unfortunately, the Constitution does not enumerate or uphold the Senate rules. In fact, the Vice President's role in casting the tie breaking vote is defined in Article I Section 3, something that surely would not have been written if a super-majority on simple legislation was the intention. So the up or down vote Obama is demanding is fair game. We can't complain about procedural rules after we vote in the most radical leftist on the planet.

oof oof| 3.4.10 @ 10:50AM

Wrong, the constitution allows each house to set up their own rules. Senate rules require a supermajority to pass legislation. The One can demand wantever he wants, but they have to break the rules to get it.

Copyleft| 3.4.10 @ 11:24AM

Not quite... the rules call for a supermajority to achieve a cloture vote, not to pass the legislation itself. And the only way to block that is with a filibuster.

I say, it's time to call the Republicans' bluff. LET them filibuster! Let them stand before the cameras, one after the other, and proudly (and pathetically) declare why they're against fixing our broken healthcare system until they're blue in the face, gasping for air...

...and rushed to the emergency room for their government-paid healthcare, which they wouldn't give up for love or money.

Quit pussyfooting around, Democrats; if we wanted Republican healthcare legislation, we would've voted for Republican legislators. We didn't.

Siegfried X| 3.4.10 @ 11:35AM

Been there, done that.

This has been tried many many times before, making the other side filibuster, and it always fails. The independent voters blame the party in power for not getting things done, but never punish the party which filibusters.

Q| 3.4.10 @ 12:39PM

I couldn't agree more. Thanks for your comment!

George S| 3.4.10 @ 4:33PM

The Constitution allows each house to set their rules and qualify their members, but it does not hold them to those rules. If the Senate passed a rule that says 100% ayes are needed for legislation, that would be great, for nothing would get done. However, if the same rule applied to budgets and confirmation of judicial and cabinet appointees, then the Constitution gets the final word: if you can do all with 100% then no problem. But since that would be almost impossible to do, the Senate would have to find some other way of fulfilling their constitutional responsibility. Like, breaking that rule.

Again, if the Democrats want to go with 51 votes, that's allowed since there is no constitutional obligation to pass a health care bill. But what comes by reconciliation can be undone by it. Think of what we could do with a Republican President and 51 Republican Senators that we couldn't do in the past. Two wrongs make a right? That's the other side of the coin.

Yet I do not want to get hung up on process when the whole damn bill violates the Constitution and the Bill of Rights. But that's the way the ballot box bounces and this is one hell of a nightmare of such a consequence.

poptoy| 3.4.10 @ 10:34AM

Look what one vote created. Sen. Brown I think has a new nickname. Shame on the Dems.

Tim| 3.4.10 @ 10:43AM

anyone who as ever been a member of a union for a long period of time has seen this drama play out all of time.

The Rank and File union members are given a ballot and told to vote for a contract that was just negotiated by the leadership.

It's only years later that the member notices that they were sold out on this or that and only when they are finally given the opportunity to read the fine print.

With Andy Stern of the SEIU in charge of the White House and Obama's team squarely from the Chicago Union Hood, this twist is no surprise to folks who have experienced the wrath of modern day unionism.

I will be curious to see if these tactics can work in a country where only 15% of the total work force actually belong to unions.

Keep in mind that half of the current union members would vote their union leadership out if ever given a fair and honest chance percisely because of these anti choice underhanded and un American sleeze ball tactics.

Tom Degan| 3.4.10 @ 10:45AM

What other choice does the prez have? Like during the Clinton era, the right wing lunatic fringe - within Congress and without - are determined to sabotage his administration by any means necessary. That is their only agenda. They have no vision. They have no plan. All they have is fear. Frighten the American people against the Big, Black Bolshevik Boogie man in the White House.

Obama's doing the right thing.

http://www.tomdegan.blogspot.com

Tom Degan

Great Grandma| 3.4.10 @ 11:21AM

Tom Degan. Repubs don't have to do anything because the Dems are sabotaging themselves. All one has to do is listen to what they say and then watch what they do. Of course not everyone is that astute.

Liberty or Death | 3.4.10 @ 8:38PM

Great Grandma, you couldn't be more correct here. The Demwitocrats have had the votes for months to get hellcare done. They couldn't pass it.

The real issue here is false marketing. So called, "moderate and fiscal conservative," or, "Blue Dog" Democrats (a true oxymoron) ran on platforms closer aligned with the conservative majority of the voting block, than with the minority of kook-fringe nutjobs on the left. Now they are being exposed for the frauds we all knew they were to begin with.

Obama is asking them to jump a cliff and completely disregard their "supposed," moderate standing with the voters who elected them. Obama, himself, in addition to being proven the complete liar he's always been, daily, appeared to campaign from the center in the presidential run up.

The lesson to be learned here is, Democrats ARE socialists- always have been, always will be. No matter how they spin themselves: moderates, liberals, progressives... pick your flavor... they are all for LARGE government, controlling everyone's lives, with very little freedoms.

Moderate/progressive Republicans are in the same camp and need to be completely purged from the conservative party.

When a Republican runs on his/her conservative roots, they will win hands down every time.

JungleCogs| 3.4.10 @ 11:21AM

And you, Tom, have no facts to back-up your wild accusations.

Petronius| 3.5.10 @ 3:10AM

T D
This is the United States, not never-neverland. Here, it is incumbent upon you to establish and maintain yourself in society. Also, you have the right to "pursue happiness". Those of us who are normal define that as empire building at the personal level. Not interested? o.k. But this bill has in it a section requiring everybody to report all assets to the new Health Security Administration; real estate, bank accounts, investment portfolios, personal property including all luxury items, and registration of all firearms. Your National Health Insurance premium; (penalty tax on all solvent individuals), will be a percentage of your total estate, levied no doubt by a "social justice commissar". Believe all you want that reversal of fortune is a legitimate purview of government. Your Bolshie in the White House is real. He's declared as much. You had better keep your hands to yourself.

JJ| 3.4.10 @ 10:46AM

Why all the fuss. The American media got this guy elected, now they are covering his butt, going easy on him, pushing his agenda and they will get him re-elected even if he passes 10-trillion dollars in spam and baloney.
TO FIX AMERICA ... Americans must take their country back from the liberal news media that is driving us to hell.
Republican and Conservative politicians still do not have the backbone to challenge the media. The candidate who does will get elected and effect real change.

rainmaker1145| 3.4.10 @ 10:49AM

Watching Mr. Obama is like watching a Ronco infomercial. Lots of hype and lots of bold promises that you have to somehow buy into because the facts don't ever seem to be there. The campaign is over but this guy still is out there talking about his bold changes and great new policies. The reality is that after three years we still don't have a single piece of legislation from the President other than the fiscal budget which he doesn't prepare anyway.

This guy should be out in the bush with a bone in his nose doing the Cargo Cult dance to hope that health care reform will land at his pseudo-landing strip in La-La Land.

fred lapides| 3.4.10 @ 10:50AM

Not to be harsh with my conservative pals, but reconciliation has been used often by the GOP. And since a solid block of GOP refuses to vote for reform, and what they have offered is wanting, then the Dems have every right as elected officials to give the American public what it has long wanted.

Virginia| 3.4.10 @ 11:24AM

fred lapides. Reconciliation was intended for and has only been used on small budget bills and never on anything like this.

Argh. The lies Dems tell and people believe.

darcy| 3.5.10 @ 3:44AM

Not according to RedState, where Erick Erickson comments:

"Posted by Erick Erickson

Thursday, March 4th
For all the talk about the Republicans having used reconciliation more than the Democrats, it is important to remember a few things:

Each time reconciliation was used, it was used to fix legislation already enacted into law.
What the Democrats want to do is use reconciliation to fix legislation before it is enacted into law.
And guess what? The Senate Parliamentarian is telling everybody that won’t work. According to the Parliamentarian, reconciliation can only apply to fix legislation already signed into law by the President."

Miguel Saavadera| 3.4.10 @ 10:54AM

I do not care what OweBama said in previous years, I do not care what what either the Republicans or the Democrats did in terms previously, and I really don't care if the President of the Senate CAN over rule the Senate Parliamentarian ... Nor do I want to hear that all the Conservatives or blue dog Democrats will campaign on 'repealing this BAD bill' in November ... it won't matter, IF this bill gets passed by any means we shall never get all the little widgets outa the system EVER. It is a cancer and once approved is never going to go entirely away. We already have parts of this in the Stimulus bill, and other bills already passed ... it is a shell game. Keep your eye on the damn watermelon!

It dies now, before it goes any further BECAUSE IT IS A BAD BILL. I don't care if Mitch McConnell, Kyle, McCain, Bonner, Cantor and all the rest have to singly or in mass commit Hari Kiri on the floors of both the House and Senate to stop it ~ so be it ... Time to get big & ugly NOW! Give blood now, or slowly bleed to death later ...

The American People want Health Care Reform, just not this travesty of a bill.

darcy| 3.5.10 @ 3:27AM

I'm with you, Miguel, time for total war on senate floor and in the house. THIS BILL MUST DIE, NOW.

Kyl, Sessions, DeMint, Bunning, Cornyn, Coburn, what will you DO to stop this blatant usurpation of power?

Ken (Old Texican)| 3.4.10 @ 10:55AM

I for one, really appreciate Copyleft and ilk dropping in here.
We get to keep current with the "lies of the day" being so generously provided to us.

heh! We get the daily talking points delivered to our electronic doorstep for no effort whatsoever.
Pretty cool huh?

Oldefarte| 3.4.10 @ 10:55AM

I would strongly suggest to Democrat [and Republican] incumbents that they begin the process of researching their future employment prospects, since November is fast approaching [unless of course any/all of them can begin devising political/legislative strategies to reverse/veto/eliminate this WELFARECARE bill being rammed down the throats of Americans] !!!!!

Susan Brei| 3.4.10 @ 10:57AM

First, it's not Obama who will be "ramming" health care through congress, it's Democratic senators who have decided to use the process of reconciliation.

Second, this is not the "nuclear option" (as defined by the Republican congressional majority in the mid-2000's). The nuclear option was a threat to do away with the filibuster when Democrats threatened to block the appointment of a conservative federal judge. Why are you redefining the nuclear option in this manner? What is YOUR agenda?

Third, Obama has done everything humanly possible to include Republicans in the process of creating an acceptable, bi-partisan healthcare bill. The real issue is that the Republicans have made it their policy to say "no" to everything, to essentially block the elected majority from getting ANYTHING done. Many of the ideas in the healthcare bill (including the personal mandate, trading over state lines, fraud reduction, etc) were supported by Republicans in the past. The reason they are blocking the healthcare bill has more to do with protecting their lobbyist friends and ensuring that the Democrats don't do anything the American public will LIKE than any real philosophical objections.

Stop accusing Obama of being a partisan dictator when he has such a strong record of working with conservatives (at the Harvard Law Review, as a senator in Illinois, and as a President). He's done SO, SO much more to reach across the aisle than Bush did.

George F| 3.4.10 @ 11:28AM

Susan Brei. Are you so clueless as to not know all the lies you are telling?

You so obviously do not listen to what's said and compare it with what is happening.

Susan Brei| 3.4.10 @ 11:57AM

I can tell by your grammar that you are probably the one who isn't READING into this issue all that deeply.

What has Obama done to make you so angry?

America needs health care reform. Obama decides to put his second term on the line by FINALLY addressing the issue. He asks congress to create the bill (rather than create one himself, as the Clintons did), which means that he wants conservative input. Unfortunately, the conservatives are more interesting in sabatoging his presidency than contributing, so they block all efforts to pass the bill, no matter how many concessions they get.

Realizing, finally, that the Republicans will NEVER cooperate, the Democrats have decided to use reconciliation. This is perfectly normal (most health reform has passed this way, along with the Bush tax cuts), and the ELECTED MAJORITY will FINALLY get to pass something AMERICA NEEDS and WANTS with a 51% majority vote (ie, how our Democracy SHOULD function).

It's difficult to be in the minority, isn't it? I was there during the whole Patriot Act/Iraq War/justifying torture fiasco. At least, with health care reform, my fellow Americans will get more than bombs and ammunition for their tax dollars.

Al Adab| 3.4.10 @ 2:23PM

Dear young lady,

"America needs health care reform" NO

America needs cap and trade NO

America needs... NO

Little if anything provioded by the government fits the definition of "America needs" What America needs is more free markets, less regulation, fewer agencies and more individual Liberty. Anything else is pottage.

Susan Brei| 3.4.10 @ 3:45PM

So typical, and so wrong. America is "great" today because the GOVERNMENT spent a TON of money on wars, pouring money into the "free" market through contracts and giving poor farmers an opportunity to buy a house in the burbs and work in a factory instead. Over time, the factories moved overseas and the populace split into white collar workers or fast-food/service employees, but don't forget who paid for the contracts, the schools, the roads and the public service agencies (police, fire) that made it all possible... the GOVERNMENT.

Oh, and by the way, the governments of other countries seem to do a fine job of providing health care (even though it may not be the technological wonder that our richest people enjoy), so I'm pretty sure we can (and should) do the same. It'll keep people from going bankrupt over a bad case of strep throat or a broken limb.

Al Adab| 3.4.10 @ 5:24PM

Interesting historical question. Why is America great? Would be an interesting debate or graduate thesis.

You attribute to government programs? When did America become great? What is definition of Great? Do we wish to remain great? All good questions miss.

Eric Cartman| 3.4.10 @ 3:04PM

"justifying torture fiasco"? What, a little nose cleaning with some H2O and panties on the head? I bet I can find five of your friends from San Fran that would pay me to do that! And that's without even trying - just open a window and yell "Panties on the head and water boarding, five dollars! Get you panties on the head and water boarding!" You should be tough enough for that, Suz! And give me bombs and ammo over a crappy health care plan any day. What a wimp!

Suz and the Wimon from the Wimon's Graduate Art Herstory Departmnat against the world! Wimon! Eeeeeeeek!

Susan Brei| 3.4.10 @ 3:52PM

I live in Utah, so I get to see a lot of poor, uneducated guys who have been rendered so impotent by their lack of choices in modern America that they glean what little pride/manhood they can from their guns, trucks and "America is #1" delusions. You'll NEVER be rich and you'll NEVER feel real pride in yourself until you take care of yourself and yours politically, rather than the rich guys who hand you your talking points on Fox News.

BTW, waterboarding has been defined as torture for some time, and even one of your conservative talk radio boneheads couldn't endure it for more than a couple seconds.

oof oof| 3.4.10 @ 7:24PM

I seem to recall Hannity volunteering to be waterboarded for charity paid by some lib on a by the second basis. Hell, I'd be willing to be waterboarded for ,say, $1000 a second. Any takers? The economy sucks, and I could really use the money.

Petronius| 3.5.10 @ 3:20AM

S B
The government is not your mommy!! It does not exist to take care of you!!! As for torture; you view that as being obliged to grow up and become self sufficient. Should you get your way and the economy is brought to ruin by your president, you will be forced to face reality. Then we'll see who survives.

Susan Brei| 3.5.10 @ 1:37PM

The economy will improve, because people will be able to quit dead-end jobs and start their own businesses. Innovative small-businesses created our middle-class, and we need them back. Universal Health Care will make that possible. How many talented people are chained to their corporate desk simply because they need to keep their family insured? The next Henry Ford or Thomas Edison could be freed from corporate slavery by this bill.

Oldefarte| 3.7.10 @ 5:09PM

Susan: READ MY POST--it says'Democrats', not OBAMA. The nuclear option was originated by Robert Bird and is intended for a whole/entire BUDGET, not individualistic budget measures, ie healthcare. The cost control items you mention [and failed to include, ie TORT REFORM that the trial lawyers won't allow D's to consider] were only argued by R's, not D's; and R's ideas were purposely excluded from the beginning of the consideration of healthcare bill development [and then R's were invited to the meeting because of D's election losses and the dislike of the D's bill]. Finally, O didn't work with R's on anything and voted PRESENT more than YES/NO in his illustrious Senate career. Cut the BULLEXCREMENT----it make you look foolish!!!!!!

JungleCogs| 3.4.10 @ 11:01AM

We know we have a Mad-Man in the White House; let’s just hope there are some responsible Democrats left to stop this insanity.

Susan Brei| 3.4.10 @ 12:06PM

A Mad Man huh? Because he wants America to catch up with other industrialized nations around the world in terms of health care, human rights, education and infrastructure?

If you were in charge, our nation would become an irrelevant third-world country in no time... but then, the idea of having your own fenced-in compound with your own pile of ammunition to protect it from lazy, poor people probably appeals to you.

Eric Cartman| 3.4.10 @ 12:45PM

Hey Suzie,

Why don't you and your liberal friends create your own insurance company and offer all the goodies to the druggies, thuggies, lazy asses, and stupid you want the rest of us to pay for. The rest of us will keep our plans as is - the terrible plans you think we hate. Then we can see what happens.

And we get to keep certain hospitals that have the right to turn away non-emergency patients and turn in illegal aliens and your hospitals can follow the present rules. You think health care is a right, I don't. So start practicing what you preach. You and the rest of the liberal aholes can afford it, can't you?

Susan Brei| 3.4.10 @ 1:49PM

Here's a better idea. Why don't we make healthcare universal, and treat it as a right- just like fire protection, policing and eduction- and then you and yours can start your own for-profit, luxury system outside of it. Single-mothers, young unskilled workers, disabled people, etc hardly qualify as "druggies, thuggies, lazy and stupid people". In reality, they are the necessary leftovers of a capitalist system that simply WOULD NOT WORK if EVERYONE were rich. In my opinion, those people- who create wealth for others- should at LEAST have basic health care.

Pay for your own luxury education, policing and health care, but don't tell me that hard-working Americans who fall through the cracks of our capitalist system deserve to die when "world class" treatment is available. If you disagree, get McDonald's and Wal-Mart to provide insurance to the people who make them rich every day.

Eric Cartman| 3.4.10 @ 1:59PM

Well, Suz, I already paid for my education at both a public and then a private university after serving in the USAF and didn't get any benefits to pay for them either. I had what is called a scholarship because I worked hard. We have a volunteer fire department, so we don't need your federally funded fire department. I have a well and septic system, so I don't need your water/sewer either.

And as for your garbage of people "who create wealth for others" just shows what a Lefty ahole you are. They wouldn't have a job if it weren't for people who invest and take risks. You're a socialist and this country isn't socialist - you have already lost, you and your ilk just don't know it yet. But you will, Suz, and I expect to see mass hysteria then. That will be fun.

Eric Cartman| 3.4.10 @ 2:15PM

Oh, and BTW Suz - I can call you Suz, can't I, Suz? Cause you seem like a Suz, ya know? Anywho, the reason I and my ilk don't have to do anything is that we are pretty happy with our health care. Since you and your ilk, Suz, think you can do a better job running an insurance company, it's up to you to prove to us you can run a health care system, Suz. So man up, Suz , and take the challenge.

Blueline99| 3.4.10 @ 4:34PM

You are happy with your health care because you haven't had to really use it yet. Hope you don't get a chronic illness or disease where you might actually cost the insurance company any money because they will look to cut you out and then you won't be able to get any insurance because you have a pre-existing conditions.

I'm not making this up... it happens all the time. It happened to a family member with leukemia who hit his annual spending cap after nine months and then died.

That is what a death panel is.

oof oof| 3.4.10 @ 7:33PM

You people and your "don't get sick or they're cut you off" about insurance companies are so full of BRAVO-SIERRA! My wife has had cancer(4 hospital stays), a chronic illness which required chemotherapy, and numerous other medical problems. My insurance company, paid for BY MYSELF, thank you, paid every penny that they were contractually obligated to pay. They don't pay? LAWSUIT! BAD FAITH! Gets their attention all the time. So take your BULL SHIP and go the hell away

Susan Brei| 3.4.10 @ 4:05PM

So rich people get rich because they "work hard" and "take risks"? You honestly think these people could get rich without 1) investors, 2) workers, and 3) luck? You don't feel that OTHER people (ie, engineers, programmers, even the janitors in their offices/factories) don't play a role in their wealth generation? Do you feel that the people who take risks and fail deserve to go bankrupt and lose everything?

The best way of life possible, proven out by history, is a free-market capitalist system undergirded by a strong social safety net. The capitalist market depends on educated, skilled workers, and the workers depend on the jobs. The risktakers get rewarded, but the people who help create their wealth enjoy a certain standard of living. MUTUAL RESPECT. MUTUAL APPRECIATION.

I don't know why you're gunning for the rich. It sounds like you'd like to live in a corporate dictatorship rather than a Democracy run by the people. Your septic tank and your background in the USAF are enough to let me know you're just another poor schmuck trying to get by. Why don't you try guning for your class instead?

Al Adab| 3.4.10 @ 7:01PM

"That some become rich means others may become rich" A. Linclon

"If we were to rely on Washington to tell us when to plant and when to reap, we should soon want for bread." T. Jefferson

Have a good evening.

Margie| 3.4.10 @ 7:51PM

Liberals say "What's mine is mine, and what's yours is mine."
~Actually I think that was Graucho Marx, but you get the idea.

Susan Brei| 3.5.10 @ 1:42PM

Liberals actually say, "What's ours is ours".

Modern conservatives say, "What's already mine should be sold at rock bottom prices to a coporation through dirty political means and sold back to me at 400% profit to a select group of investors who "worked hard and took risks" to get where they are".

Susan Brei| 3.5.10 @ 1:39PM

That's true. A lot of Chinese people have become rich due to outsourcing recently... despite the fact that hard-working Americans built those corporations to begin with. Good point!

Eric Cartman| 3.5.10 @ 12:16AM

Well, Suzy Cheese, I have a well and septic tank because I live in a big house in the country - don't need your city water, Suz! I live in the country so I can fly my plane into the garage off my grass flight line, like all us po folk out here do. Poor Suz - gunna get your clock cleaned in November.

DNC Talking Points Drew| 3.4.10 @ 2:41PM

Hey Suz---are you really this stupid?

The so-called 30 M uninsured---which all of sudden dropped from 45M---would cost 27 Billion dollars per year to cover and the idea has already been presented. Just put them on Medicare. End of uninsured.
Plus: Why doesn't anything take effect until 2014? If it's so important, why is Obama going to allow those 45----sorry now it's 30 thousand people per year die (get me a whambulance---wahhhh)? Why not make it immediate?
Come on now---get those two synapse firing----because people will hate it so much, no way in hell he would ever get re-(s)elected.

Get a clue and get off Kos and Moron.org. This isn't about insuring the uninsured, it's about control.

If you like having Federal oversight over your entire life, I suggest you direct all income to Fed and ask them to give you back what they think you "deserve". It would be around 15%.

The whole liberal police and fire dept is Socialism crap started with No-Joy Behar.

Copyleft| 3.4.10 @ 4:00PM

Ironically, expanding Medicare WOULD be a better plan than the current bill, which does way too many favors for the insurance industry. And still people persist in pretending this bill is anything close to "leftist"--it would be laughable if it didn't reflect such profound ignorance.

But, of course, the expanded-Medicare solution would also be--gasp!--"socialist." And we can't have THAT, can we? (rolling eyes)

Mama B| 3.4.10 @ 12:58PM

Susan: America should "catch up with" other industrialized nations? America has the best hospitals, the best diagnostic equipment, the best physicians and the best medical researchers in the world. Citizens of those countries you so admire come HERE when they need serious medical treatment. As for Mr. Obama's plan: a similar plan was enacted in 2006 in Massachusetts. Like all other government programs, the Massachusetts health care plan failed to live up to what it promised, greatly exceeded early budget projections, and raised employers' health care costs by an estimated $540 million per year--and that's in one small state. How do you think employers recoup costs like that? By laying off employees and slashing salaries and benefits. For more information, see HR Magazine, March 2009, page 42. Why in the world would any thinking person want to enact this failed legislation on a national scale?

As far as Dems vs Repubs--throw all the out-of-touch-with-constituents elitists out! Until a candidate promises that s/he will abide by any laws s/he enacts, s/he won't get my vote. Maybe if Congress had to retire on Social Security they would stop raiding the cookie jar!

Copyleft| 3.4.10 @ 1:24PM

MamaB: I notice that you and other fans of our wonderful healthcare system seem to have a syntax problem when discussing it. You always leave out the end of each sentence.

Examples:

"We have the greatest healthcare in the world... FOR THOSE WHO CAN AFFORD IT."

"Resident of other countries come here for their critical-care needs... IF THEY CAN AFFORD IT."

It's a curious linguistic affliction you have... or is it just a memory problem? Do you keep forgetting that little, vital fact when you talk about how magnificent our healthcare is?

Because there are millions of Americans who are enjoying the OTHER side of that wonderful healthcare system: having no healthcare whatsoever.

Eric Cartman| 3.4.10 @ 1:33PM

That's right! " IF THEY CAN AFFORD IT" as you put it. I worked hard to be able to afford it and when I didn't have insurance, guess what? I paid for it out of my pocket!

This isn't a "right". Seems you and Suze and the other Lefty seminar posters think it is. So set up your own health care insurance and take care of your druggy/thuggy, illegal alien friends out of your own pockets! You aholes have lost - you just don't know it yet. But you will in November. And we're not going to stop until our boots are snapping your necks. Bu bye!

Susan Brei| 3.4.10 @ 4:22PM

Eric Cartman: "You guys have lost! In November, America will vote in a raft of Republicans that will give control of healthcare back to the insurance companies, who will continue to raise their rates, kick sick people off their plans, and rape small businesses despite record profits! We taxpayers can continue to absorb the cost of bankruptcies, emergency room visits and the general lack of small business success, just as long as the investors in for-profit healthcare get their returns (cuz that's not socialism)! I'll continue to feel this way too until I lose my own healthcare! I work hard, unlike people from San Francisco who drink lattes and drive Priuses"

You're such a cliche.

Blueline99| 3.4.10 @ 4:38PM

How can you defend insurance companies and their practices. Anthem just raised their premiums by an average of 27%. How is that acceptable.

The company I work for is now self-insuring because they can't afford the insurance companies anymore. It's an experiment and we all hope it works out for us.

Living in fear of illness is no way to live, but those without insurance live that way.

Those with insurance all feel safe and comfortable because they think its not their problem, that is until they get sick and need the coverage when they discover that they don't get it, what do they do then?

"I've got mine, go screw everyone else" is not a mantra that I'd be proud of.

Eric Cartman| 3.4.10 @ 10:48PM

*Sniffle* Oh, Blowline, you have such sad, sad tales about how no one ever gets treatment because insurance companies never, ever pay anybody for anything. *Snifle* And Obama and people like Suz! *Sniffle* And all you Lefty trolls trying to tell everybody that all insurance companies do is take in premiums and never, ever pay anything! Never! Ever! *Sniffle* It's so, so SAD! *Burble* You guys are just winning this debate so much man! *Sniff Burble* How can we as a nation go on without your wisdom! *Burble Sniff* I guess we're just heartless brutes! *Sniffle Sniffle Snort Whimper* I can't take it any more! *Sob Sniffle* Please! Take all our money and show us how to live! *Boo Hoo, Snifle*

Mama B| 3.4.10 @ 5:12PM

I can afford the wonderful health care this country has to offer because I have a JOB--granted, a low-paying, entry level job for this middle aged, recently divorced empty-nester who spent the last 20 years on the so-called Mommy track--but it's a job that offers basic health insurance at a price even I can afford. And you leftists seem to confuse lack of health insurance for lack of health care. The two are not synonymous. Even those without health insurance have access to health care. Every hospital in my city has charitable endowments to help provide health care for the poor, but it's a puzzlement to me how those "poor" will refuse to accept charity freely given, but will reach into your pocket and mine for a government entitlement extracted at gunpoint (the IRS, who can seize your assets, freeze your bank accounts, garnishee your wages and throw you in jail if you refuse to pay your "fair share"). Funny how all these folks crying povery can afford multiple piercings, tattoos, cigarettes and alcohol. Seems to me it boils down to priorities. How many sad sacks sob on camera about losing everything they own in a house fire, for lack of a $150 homeowner's policy? Bet they found room in the budget for the big screen TV and satellite dish! In November, don't vote for incumbents in either party. Vote in citizen-legislators who understand that they work for us, not the other way around.

Blueline99| 3.4.10 @ 5:31PM

You're confusing access and affordability are.
10 weeks of chemo treatment cost $80,000
9 weeks of Raditation Therapy cost $140,000

Yes, you can survive cancer but you're bankrupt... i guess the alternative is to just let the cancer kill you.

Susan Brei| 3.5.10 @ 1:45PM

Lots of people who have a JOB do not receive the benefit of health care. If they DID, we wouldn't NEED this bill. Maybe you should call your senator and ask him/her to back an Employer Mandate.

FDS| 3.4.10 @ 11:01AM

Didn't the Republicans use the "nuclear option" and now they are complaining about the Democrats using it? This happened in 2001 and 2003 for the Bush Tax cuts. In 2003, the VP cast the deciding vote. Also, do not forget the 2005 Deficit Reduction Act and the 2006 Tax Relief Extensions Act were also passed with reconcilation.

JungleCogs| 3.4.10 @ 11:23AM

Look, you can squabble all you want about budget reconciliation; the bottom line is the vast majority of Americans don’t want this monstrosity. Obama couldn’t sell it when he had a filibuster-proof majority. We the People have awakened to the fact that this has nothing to do with health-care reform; it’s all about money, power and control.

Come November, Obama’s going to become a lame duck. In 2012, we’ll be done with him. But I’ll give Obama credit for one thing; he has taught us all that elections have consequences and I doubt the people will take their duty to vote lightly anymore.

Realitybased| 3.4.10 @ 12:17PM

Why is it that all of the hyper partisn hacks out there put the needs of thier political party ahead of the needs of the country? Is there anyone our there that is even capable of honesty and truth anymore? From 2001-2008 it was the age of big government. The TSA, Dept of Homeland Sec and the Patriot Act as well as illegal wire tapping policies that were implemented by Government. I would think that the time to protest the size and oppression of government would have been then. I challenge any of these asshats to admit that the govt grew like a ballon and that all of this noise being made by Republicans is ntohing more than sour grapes for them losing a election. They can blame whomever they wish but the reason they lost the election was because they were (are) both arrogant and stupid. They pandered to the fringe elements of the populace. Anyone that follows politics knows that you can not win a nattional election appealing to only one group. I knew that Obama was going to win in 2008 and I also knew that the Republicans were going to obstruct from the word go to score a political point or two. The plan was to blame him for everything from Global warming to tooth decay. The Republicans have decided that it is better to lead a mob than to be on the receiving end of thier anger. Your being a advocate for them serves thier interest not your own.

rbblum| 3.4.10 @ 11:06AM

Is it not possible to identify who the people really were (in medical white coats and scrubs) standing behind Obama as he delivered his public statement regarding the national health care bill? . . . . . Give credit where credit is due.

zelrik| 3.4.10 @ 11:07AM

Hey guys,

Your healthcare system sucks and you dont want to fix it. What a joke.

Eric Cartman| 3.4.10 @ 12:49PM

My health care is great! Your system sucks ass probably, but mine is great! And what kind of dumb ass name is Zelrik? Sounds commie to me.

Blueline99| 3.4.10 @ 4:40PM

How do you define "great"

75% of bankruptcies due to health bills are people who had health care insurance.

Susan Brei| 3.4.10 @ 1:28PM

Not true. Around 50% of us do. The other 50% want to live in a state of lawless anarchy, where as long as them and theirs are taken care of (presumably on their personal compound), then everyone else can go to hell.

We're a very "Christian" nation after all.

I'm hoping the health care bill passes, because as soon as people are able to insure their children further into their twenties, are able to keep their healthcare when they get sick, find a competitive price, etc. etc., the Dems will look great.

Eric Cartman| 3.4.10 @ 1:35PM

The Dems and others like you already look like the thugs that you are. You have lost, Suze. Just don't cry yourself into insanity come November.

Susan Brei| 3.4.10 @ 1:56PM

The Dems will always have to pick up the pieces after the Republicans have been in office cutting taxes, starting wars and delaying infrastructure investment. I think you all secretly WANT the country to crash and burn so you can live the selfish, authoritarian, Taliban-esque, gun-toting, fatalistic Jesus-freak fantasy you've been working on for years.

Eric Cartman against the world man! Whoo hoo!

Eric Cartman| 3.4.10 @ 2:04PM

That's funny. No, Suz. I just want to see you crack up this November LOL.

Suz and the wiman students of the Graduate Sociology Department against the world, wiman! Eeeeeeek!

DNC Talking Points Drew| 3.4.10 @ 2:20PM

Eric,
Would Suz be considered a Vagina Monologue?

Or any Liberals for that matter.

Hey Suz; does you p**** hurt?

Eric Cartman| 3.4.10 @ 2:31PM

~~Shudder ~~ That takes care of my heebies, but I still have the jeebies.

Susan Brei| 3.4.10 @ 6:08PM

I must've said something that struck a nerve, because you two had to resort to the "Oh yeah? Well I have a penis! So there!" argument. Good one.

I understand it must be tough to be a guy in modern America. There's nothing more to conquer. You can collect guns, but all you can do with them is shoot paper and/or hold up a 7-11. You've been robbed of so much power and independence that all you can do to feel like a man is drive cartoonishly large trucks, collect firearms, consume copious amounts of meat and watch your powertool collection rust in the shed. It's no wonder so many women are turning to other women in middle age. Guys have become so irrelevent and pathetic, the old bag at work who likes to gossip about celebrities and tell cat stories looks like an attractive alternative.

It's no wonder you latch onto right-wing talk show hosts like Limbaugh. He yells, he degrades, he talks tough. Listening to him rant while you frame yet another suburban home (you couldn't afford to buy) must make you feel like a real man for a fleeting moment. I understand why you want to live in a place with small government and few rules... you feel like a p---y in today's society. All this energy and drive, and nothing to spend it on but groceries at the Wal-Mart and buffalo wings at the Hooters. My grandpa, who fought in WWII and helped build infrastructure for an American city would have died of boredom if he were you.

I really do empathize with you, and as a capitalist (yes, I am a capitalist with caveats), I think universal health care would allow small businesses to flourish, to take bigger risks, and become ever more innovative. Maybe then, you can leave the cubicles or the business of building/selling cars and McBurbia and do something that matters... get your mojo back.

Most women I know wouldn't complain about that.

oof oof| 3.5.10 @ 9:16AM

Suz,

After your first comment, I had you pegged as just another man hating lesbian, but this post just cements it for me. What was it that Limbaugh says about feminism?
Men believe in freedom first, women cherish security. It's in their nature, that nesting thing, you know. Women without men to provide a sense of security, turn to government for it, like these innerctiy welfare queens. And you.

oof oof

Susan Brei| 3.5.10 @ 2:00PM

You know I'm right. Do something about it. Stop calling yourself "oof oof" or naming yourselves after South Park characters, grow up, and get in touch with your powerful, creative, energetic, manly selves. It's not liberals who stole your country, it's large corporations. First they put our grandparents and parents out of business and off the farms by underselling them and "fixing" the "free" market, then they sent all the good jobs to China and India. They keep us hooked on what little opportunity remains by raising the price of our homes, food and ESPECIALLY our medical care so we're utterly dependent on the scraps they give us, and they keep us from becoming the innovative Americans we used to be.

Because women enjoy security, as you say, we aren't bothered as much about this arrangement. We're also in a better spot to exploit the jobs that do exist now (this has been called a Mancession). Men, however, are obviously bored and underutilized these days. Pass universal health care, and you have a chance to get out from under your corporate slave drivers and become your own Captain of Industry.

Get rid of those beer guts, Dodge Rams and manboobs, turn off the Limbaugh and take the reins! Electing a rich Republican isn't going to help you at all.

oof oof| 3.5.10 @ 3:04PM

Ok, let me get this straight. The man hating lesbian says to be a real man I need to suck off the govenment tit.

Riiiiiiiiiiight.

oof oof

Susan Brei| 3.9.10 @ 1:00AM

Or you could suck off the rich and have no democratic control over your destiny. Your choice. You can have a voice and build something with fellow middle-class Americans, or you can be the towel boy at the country club who begs for the occasional tip and gets all excited every time one of the members remembers his name.

Too many modern men are satisfied with the latter.

DNC Talking Points Drew| 3.4.10 @ 2:17PM

Hey Susie,

Did you send in or refuse the evil Bush Tax Cuts?

Did you? Huh?
You didn't?

Yes, we want the country to crash-----the path that it is on. You're doing a great job of phuqing it up.

Keep up the great work Moron---and get me my Latte. Pronto!!

Eric Cartman| 3.4.10 @ 2:29PM

And if the health care bill passes, it will be dismantled bit by bit after November, Suz. And that will be even more fun to watch! You talk big, for someone named after a squishy cheese.

Suz and the Wiman Students of the Graduate Wiman and Cultural Studies Department against the world, Wiman! Eeeeeeek!

Susan Brei| 3.4.10 @ 4:27PM

My prediction? The health care bill will pass, people will love it, but because the average American is so dumb (you included), they'll still support Republicans and go to town hall meetings yelling phrases like "Keep the Government out of my Medicare!" Despite this, the Republicans will have a hell of a time dismantling something that has broad public support, and they'll grudgingly have to accept that it exists.

Just like Medicare and Social Security.

Your perspective can be summed up by a line from Glenn Beck. "I educated myself. I went to the library. It's free".

Eric Cartman| 3.4.10 @ 10:30PM

My prediction? You and your Spend-o-monkeys will lose in November because people understand you and your Spend-o-monkeys do not understand economics and business and instead believe Lefty clichés like "Not until the Janitors make as much as the CEOs" and other Social Science Department piffle. You are as boring as the 60s retreads you think you are. You will lose because the American people are much smarter than you and can see through your hippy bullshit. Keep chanting as your ship sinks, though. I want to hear your last gurgles.

Your perspective can be summed up from a line from South Park: "What, man? That's bogus, dude! This is a free country, man!"!

Susan Brei| 3.9.10 @ 1:31AM

Why is it that our grandparents, the ones who fought in WWII and built our country into the economic and military powerhouse it is today, had more faith in science than we do now? It's the most bias-free method of collecting information that we know of. Is that what bothers you about it? It's hard to spin on talk radio? The results can't be summed up on a bumper sticker or a cartoon quote?

I'm actually NOT a hippie. I don't believe that a janitor should make as much as a CEO. I DO believe VERY strongly that society, through the taxes they pay, have a right to a basic level of security (police, fire, military, social security and healthcare). That janitor may be poor, but at least they'll have a basic living standard to rely on. What's wrong with that? Capitalism depends on poor, unskilled workers to exploit. Do you want to kill them off instead? Maybe you're a sadist.

Universal Health Care is GOOD for the country. It will boost small business, keep people from having to use the emergency room for their medical needs, care for innocent children who do not have economic power, keep families from going bankrupt, and realign our society with our supposed Christian ideals.

It would be difficult to find any real Marxists in this country... myself included. I like my high-paying job, and I worked hard to get it. I'm not sure what makes me more willing to pay higher taxes so the poor kid next door doesn't have to die from pneumonia. I guess its my selfish need to live in a country whose citizens are strong, viable and able to pursue life, liberty and happiness.

BTW, I'm a South Park fan too, and as the quote stated, I'm free to say my piece and vote my conscious.

Tim| 3.4.10 @ 11:12AM

The reason that Andy Stern and Organized Labor wanted "Card Check" is to take away the right to VOTE a union in or out. When people vote the usually vote against these goons.

Obama's Chicago bosses have just taken this idea and tried to shove them on the American People at large only its bake firing badly.

Tim| 3.4.10 @ 11:23AM

Here's the rest of the Ruth Marcus Washington Post Story on " The Nuclear Option " !
" Here is where the nuclear move comes in. If Republicans exercise their prerogative to propose amendments and show no signs of quitting, Democrats could use the nuclear option to make them stop. After some number of amendments, the majority leader or another Democrat could seek a ruling that the amendments had become dilatory and abusive. If the parliamentarian were to disagree, whoever is chairing the Senate at that time could overrule him. Republicans could appeal that ruling. Democrats could move to table the appeal, essentially upholding the decision that no additional amendments would be allowed. And -- this is the important part -- that would only require a majority vote."

Wally| 3.4.10 @ 11:37AM

Can someone explain to me Klein's point that Bush's budget cuts passed with by reconciliation with only 50 votes had "bipartisan" support? Who cares what people voted for earlier (see John Kerry - "I voted for it...") Can someone explain why these Bush budget cuts, which were THE culprit of creating this massive deficit, are a good comparison to HCR, which actually CUTS the deficit? Can someone explain why tax cuts which sunset, are any different than a bill which can later be amended? What is the difference? Either way, there is a decision by Congress at some point to continue the program, right?

And do any of you who post here really think that George Bush should have been more bipartisan? For instance, did you support his immigration reform? I thought so. This board is mainly old southern white guys. I respect your performance in the civil war but I really with you would just secede again so you can become a third world country with no civil rights, no health care at all, a horrible (see Alabama and Mississippi) economy, and guns in every house to shoot, er, defend, each other with.

Michael| 3.4.10 @ 11:55AM

Don't expect actual response to rational facts, Wally. The only response from these right wingers will be impugning you and talking IN ALL CAPS to try to yell you down.

DNC Talking Points Drew| 3.4.10 @ 2:49PM

Secede?
Love to. Might come to it. You guys would crush under your own system and beg to get into 'bama.

Forget the Mexican Border fence---we'll have to build one to keep all the liberals (you Wally) out of our states.

Michael| 3.5.10 @ 4:05AM

You mean the blue states that fund most of the entitlements that red states leach off of, such as Alabama (a very good example, thanks!)?

http://www.taxfoundation.org/r.....w/266.html

Alabama gets back $1.66 in federal spending for every dollar contributed in federal taxes

Massachusetts gets back $0.82 in federal spending for every dollar contributed in federal taxes

Sorry, but the tea party attendees still want their entitlements. They're "real Amerikuhns" after all.

Mark| 3.4.10 @ 11:43AM

Bipartisanship is a two-way street. The dems stripped the public option and end-of-life counseling out of the bill, and put tort reform and crackdowns on fraud into the bill because that's what the republicans wanted. Many, many other changes were made to please the GOP. Their response? They still oppose any kind of bipartisan reform whatsoever, and always will. This despite the fact that most of the reform proposals are massively popular with the public, despite what the GOP says. Obama tried to be bipartisan, but the GOP wasn't interested. Blame them, not Obama.

Michael| 3.4.10 @ 11:45AM

Well said Mark, http://www.politifact.com/trut.....ly-say-t/, even Republicans have said they agree with most of the bill. For right wingers, bipartisanship means doing what they say and following their same failed policies.

Michael| 3.4.10 @ 11:43AM

Oh no Philip!!! Barack Obama a partisan!!!! For shame!!! First: The nuclear option as asserted by your inane title "Obama goes nuclear" (I guess I'm supposed to be "scurred" now of those elusive WMDs) and reconciliation are not the same thing. Also, Republicans, as you recall, have used reconciliation SIXTEEN times since 1980 and no it wasn't just for budget measures either. Funny how when Republicans use it it is "reel Amerikuh" speaking, and it's parliamentary trickery when Democrats do it. Right wingers are such hypocrites.

DNC TALKING POINTS MIKE-HELL| 3.4.10 @ 2:31PM

You guys get paid waaayyyy too much for doing this.

Definitely no ROI.

Honey; does posting here make my wee wee look bigger?
Wuv,
Michael

Michael| 3.5.10 @ 4:07AM

Wow, responding like a 5 year old child, instead of actually debating like a normal adult. I'll take it then that you concede defeat. Thank you for reminding me though that we do need to spend more money on education for the mentally retarded (Don't worry it's SATIRE, so Sarah Palin is ok with me saying the r-word).

Scott Alden Stabler| 3.4.10 @ 11:46AM

Healthcare is 17% of the economy, the other 83%
has been put on the back burner and is floundering. The issue for the President is he needs a political success, this is the big mistake. He should bring in Wisconsin Congressman Paul Ryan into his inner circle and create a plan that both parties will accept. Sadly, Washington DC continues on its path to creating a new failed state.
Our founding fathers must be PUKING at what they are watching going on in this country. We must all come together and soon.

W.P.Koch| 3.4.10 @ 11:50AM

WHAT SHOULD HAPPEN

Congress and the White House should stop squandering the people’s money first and improve quality of basic entitlements. No new taxes. Congress should stop vote bribery and restart the process. Citizens come first. Vote opponents to this out of office.
It is time the U.S. limits its human rites and military policeman for the World by lobbying the United Nations and NATO to “take on more”. 800 bases across the world should be reduced. Starting with Iraq, remove most troops in 2010 and continue consulting for self reliance. After a surge in Afghanistan repeat, remove corruption and substitute same value food crops for drugs. Reduce forces in selected areas such as Germany, Bosnia and Okinawa.
Cut bureaucracy. Combine CDC, EPA and FDA. Combine the FAA and Transportation Department. No CZARS Mr. president.
Contribute to only one of: The World Bank or International Monetary Fund.
Reduce foreign aid. For example, no aid to oil rich -Iraq.
Reduce the “stimulus” by halting ridiculous earmarks. Please--no research of frogs or rats.
Please- no private or military jets for congress including Pelosi’s family at taxpayer expense. The leaders should set travel standards and control expenses.
Stop the “bailout”. “To big to fail” is obsolete. No more executive bonuses of losing companies at taxpayer expense.
Reduce medical costs by no insurance buying restrictions, “tort reform”, and limiting “red tape”.
Enforce immigration laws. Entitlements or benefits are for citizens. Deport criminal “illegals”. Workers with visas should receive only needed medical benefits.
Improve medical expense tax deduction for citizens reaching age 65. Provide employer tax reduction incentives for company healthcare.
Full funding will support “Medicaid”,” Medicare”, and “Veteran’s Affairs”.
Healthcare quality should be at least that for Congress or the Federal Employee Health Benefits Program (FEHBP). A result: no drug “benefit hole”, dental coverage, improved visual coverage and no co-pays except for extended skilled level nursing.
The savings can aid unemployment compensation, and stabilize Social Security.

Tim| 3.4.10 @ 11:54AM

Duh, Race Boy Wally !
Budgets do not come from the White House. They come from Congress, and the party that has controlled Congress since January 2007 is the Democratic Party.

Michael| 3.4.10 @ 11:58AM

Yes, Tim, and as you recall on January 2007 with their 1 vote majority in the Senate, along with their majority in the House, GWB for the first time used his veto pen for almost every bill they passed. An understanding of basic high school civics would do you some good.

Louis Jenkins| 3.4.10 @ 11:58AM

Obama Care is coming! It will pass using the Nuke Option. And the hides will be peeled off of our backs to pay for it. So while being raped with new taxes and fees we should just lean back and enjoy it, but don't count on receiving medical treatment for the traumatic injuries or experience. The District of Crimminals are counting on the voting public to have a short memory come Nov. '10. (How I hope I'm wrong!) These people will go to any length to push their legislation down our gullets.

rgib| 3.4.10 @ 12:02PM

Questions:
1. Why do Republicans like Boehner continue to call our system, "the best health care system in the world", when we lag behind so many other countries in so many key metrics?
2. Don't we already pay for the health care of everyone who doesn't have coverage? Isn't that why hospital emergency rooms have become the de facto "clinic" for the uninsured? In other words, don't we already have a convoluted form of universal care - that we all pay for, albeit very expensively and inefficiently?
3. All I've heard from Republicans is that Democrats need to compromise. What exactly have Republicans offered to give up?
4. If the public is so against reform, how do you square poll numbers that consistently show strong support for some kind of "public option" (and yes, people questioned do know what it means)?
5. Why didn't Republicans insist that Bush actually fund the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, or his prescription drug program?
6. If Obama is a totalitarian dictatorial, socialist/communist/stalinist/marxist why does he send his kids to private school? Why isn't he pushing single payer? Why do Republicans blame him for supporting the wall street bailout - which basically helped save capitalism for the capitalists?
7. If Obama is such a radical, why does he support nuclear power?
8. If he wants to take guns away, why hasn't he vetoed expanded gun rights legislation?
9. Why do Republicans oppose health care reforms that their own party offered up during past administrations?
10. Again, if Obama is such a lefty, why is he continuing the wars instead of just pulling out?
11. How do you presume to know his, or anyone's motives?

Ryan| 3.4.10 @ 1:26PM

1. What metrics? Like the infant death rate numbers that have radically different definitions in different countries (the US counts any child born alive and takes a single breath. Other countries sometimes wait a year)? Like better chances with most cancers in the US? ANYTHING you can point to, there's probably a good counter from the conservative end. Public health care is NOT a panacea.

2. Yes, which is why the system needs good, free-market changes. Poor people need jobs and the ability to afford health care. Changing a system that works for most Americans isn't the way to do it.

3. We wouldn't know because we haven't been offered a seat at the table or real negotiations or real votes. We could probably bite on medicare expansion or increased coverage, but no dem leadership has even engaged a Rep with any ability to change a bill.

4. You trust polls? At best, it's probably 50-50, and that depends on how the question is worded. It's trending against, in any case.

5. Because they don't have any fiscal responsibility. Is the alternative better? A dem Congress that has raised spending to astronomic levels without paying for it, and you're complaining about the Bush fiscal irresponsibility?

6. Wrong definition of capitalism. At best, it's corporatism. Conservatives want failing businesses to FAIL and their assets be distributed among good businesses. Leftist governments prop up businesses they like, not the ones on the right. Capitalism wasn't "saved," it would have worked fine if the fear-pushers in DC weren't scared of losing their power base.

7. Probably because he's bought out, but his "support" has still delayed some nuclear issues, and will probably make them more costly. It's a relatively new development, so we'll see...it's one of the few things (other than the Afghan surge) that I support.

8. The dems have FINALLY realized that gun control is a massive losing issue. He wants to keep his job, simple as that. It doesn't make him pro-gun.

9. It's called an OMNIBUS bill. It compounds too much into one thing. Health care issues should be taken one at a time, and the garbage left out. It's too big, too much, and too fast. It's not about opposing specific policies, it's about opposing massive governmental-pushed change.

10. He realized the reality of the situation when faced with highly classified material. Some things may push anyone to the right on military issues. That being said, he did draw down Iraq faster than some may have liked, and RAN on making Afghanistan a success...and nearly dropped that ball as well.

11. Because of all his past actions. He has consistently been to the left on nearly every issue as a legislator and attorney. He's promoted big government leftist elitism in the past. What am I supposed to presume?

rgib| 3.4.10 @ 3:07PM

Ryan: I give you credit. You concede some things, and actually offer reasonable responses on others. And you didn't call me any names - which for this post is rare. Obama will never be a Republican (which is what I keep thinking Republicans are most disillusioned with), but on guns, on nuclear power, on Afghanistan, he has moved toward the center. I think part of this whole problem is an inability to actually convince people of some part of their point of view because we're too busy screaming, and name-calling, and impugning motives. But I fear that to sound reasonable leaves one open to being called a wimp or worse, someone willing to listen or, gulp, compromise.

JP| 3.4.10 @ 4:09PM

Exactly what Guns Bill are you referring to? And the President campaigned that Afghanistan was the Good War. BTW, since Jan 2009 the US has suffered more casulties in Afghanistan than the period 2005-2008. The President said in 2008 that capturing and or killing Bin Laden would be his prime goal. But now he is leaning towards negoiating a peace with the Taliban (Something he never campaigned on).

Also, 70% of the voters want Congress to start from scratch with ObamaCare. The majority do not want a public option, and the retirees do not want Medicare Advantage shut down or thier services curtailed (which is exactly what the Senate version does -ie it cuts $500 billion from future Medicare services).

Ryan| 3.4.10 @ 4:15PM

I think the closest guns issue is the national parks and he hasn't done any serious opposition to the gun lobby...of course, there's been other issues at hand.

Ryan| 3.4.10 @ 4:18PM

Part of it comes from I'm not a conspiracist by any stretch, and predominantly think that the lefties in DC are more about power than ideology....and staying elected.

I'm mean when I have to be, but that's not real often.

You commie leftie lib, you.

rgib| 3.4.10 @ 5:41PM

Maybe we can agree that most everyone in DC is about getting re-elected. As far as mean goes, I'm pretty sure it doesn't move the discussion forward, but then I'm also pretty sure that's not the purpose behind it - or most of these posts. Now for one more question: Why exactly didn't Bush and the Republicans try to tackle Health Care when they were in charge of things? And you're allowed to say, "Hmmm, good question," instead of, "Well, at least they didn't propose . . . . . . . . . . . . .

Ryan| 3.5.10 @ 8:43AM

'Cause they were idiots on domestic policy at times; 9/11 and Iraq brings some excuse because it overshadows everything and took up so much time, but there should have been a few more things done.

Tim| 3.4.10 @ 12:08PM

Gee Mikey !
For FY 2009, Nancy Pelosi and Harry Reid by-passed George Bush entirely, passing continuing resolutions to keep government running until Barack Obama could take office.

At that time, they passed a massive omnibus spending bill to complete the FY 2009 budgets.

Senator Barack Obama voted at this time. He was a member of that very Congress that passed all of these massive spending bills, and he signed the omnibus bill as President to complete FY 2009.

JP| 3.4.10 @ 12:09PM

The problem is if this thing gets passed, the collateral damage to the insurance industrywill be immediate. Massive lay-offs would begin within months. A new entitlement in which the taxpayer subsidizes almost 90% of the a person's health care costs (if they earn less than $100,000 a year) would be difficult to over-turn.
The damage to the insurance markets, the medical fields would be deep and long lasting.

Also, let's say the GOP gains all 12 Senate seats and 100 House seats this November. Obama could veto any bill that undoes ObamaCare. And if Obama and the Dems lose by large landslides in 2012, the health care industry would be totally transformed. New large bureaucracies would be in place; millions of Americans would be on Medicare, and an entirely new lobbying industry would be cemented in the Beltway. Knowing what we know about the GOP, do we really think they have the guts to undo this? We can't even find one Senator to support Bunning's quest to trim $10 billion.

Steambadger| 3.4.10 @ 12:43PM

Alternative summary: in using a perfectly legal parliamentary maneuver to counter the parliamentary maneuvers of the Republicans, Obama abandons the idea that the GOP will ever vote "yes" on anything he proposes, no matter how ofter he gives in to them.

philmon| 3.4.10 @ 12:46PM

Obama is discovering that the bullying which is the aim of "Community Organizing" does not play well in the national scene. So he didn't get the grassroots support he wanted. He then tried bribing congressmen and senators. Still wasn't enough. Then he lost his fillibuster proof majority in the Senate.

It is clear that Obama's agenda has little to do with what the American People want, and much to do with what the Progressive Statists want -- because he has blown by all these signs and is now rationalizing the use of "reconciliation" for purposes for which it was clearly never intended.

"There is, in the nature of soveriegn power, an impatience of control that disposes those who are invested with the exercise of it to look with an evil eye upon all external attempts to restrain or direct its operations ... " - Alexander Hamilton

That's why the checks and balances are there, Mr. President. Stop trying to circumvent them.

dennisintn| 3.4.10 @ 2:31PM

hugo chavez must be going nuts trying to
"outleft" obama. brothers under the skin for sure. and obama doesn't have anyone in his w.h. that doesn't agree with his wildly leftist views.
dennisintn

Zhang Guotao| 3.4.10 @ 1:39PM

Anyone who is honest knows that the so-called "Nuclear Option" was not about using Reconciliation. Instead it was used as an option by Republicans to get rid of the fillibuster altogether. The Repus were affraid that the Democrats would fillibuster Bush's Supreme Court nominations and so they puttogether a group of 14 to agree to vote up or down on Court picks. Now, after well over 100 fillibusters by the Republicans in the last year over everything including undersecretaries of Labor nominees and the shape of the tables we are told that Democratic votes are "nuclear" if they only get 60 votes once on a bill and then go to Reconciliation for the second go-round. You don't have the right to your own facts.

meister | 3.4.10 @ 2:58PM

My point below as well. When will these people wake up and understand the bias and lies that this particular crowd keeps perpetuating? Frist and company very heavy-handedly threatened to use the poorly named "nuclear option". This is nothing like that, and Frist's group used reconciliation quite often, so it's pretty innacurate to demonize the Democrats very civil approach to this. Speaking of Frist, he is actually in favor public health care.

JP| 3.4.10 @ 4:00PM

No party has ever used this process to pass a bill that would nationalize $2 trillion of our economy. Over 70% of the voters across all 50 states do not want this. If this passes, the Dems are opening up a Pandora's Box that they really don't want to see. If you think the tea parties are a irritating now, just sit back and watch. The Dems will cause not only the independents to flock to the GOP, but almost all of thier rank and file "moderates". Not even liberals want this. If this passes the President will be finished politically, and he will do to his party what Hoover did to the GOP.

JP| 3.4.10 @ 3:53PM

Up until 2001, no one every filibustered a judicial nomination. Daschle and Reid used it over 40 times to block over 100 Bush nominees. The nuclear option was used to end the filibustering of judicial nominees. Period. Get your talking points straight.

Indiana Alex| 3.4.10 @ 1:53PM

Only an idiot liberal would believe that the solution to run away entitlement spending is additional entitlements.

Of course the non idiot liberals know this is all about government control over people's lives, while their useful idiots parrot their talking points.

We are not far from either doom or revolution.

Northern Rebel| 3.4.10 @ 1:55PM

Some of the earlier posts are absolutely hysterically funny! I was having trouble distinguishing the satire, from the real liberal posts!

Great stuff!!

IQ:
You are mistaken on one point concerning the late Senator Kennedy:
The young lady didn't drown, she slowly suffocated in an air bubble that gradually ran out of oxygen. She probably died about the same time Teddy was on the phone, contacting his lawyer.

IQ| 3.4.10 @ 2:06PM

Whoops! I blame myself!

Eric Cartman| 3.4.10 @ 10:28PM

Ola!

Ken (Old Texican)| 3.4.10 @ 2:16PM

Screw Parliamentary bullcorn for the moment, folks.
What we are talking about here is the "consent of the governed".
Most of us here are much better informed than a big huuuuuge slice of Americans. We can at least see "through a glass darkly" the many effects cascading down from Obama care in the future.

Some the Democrats in congress right now are beginning to realize that this bill could forever tear the contract between our government and a sovereign people. Once the taxing starts across a wide swath of young adults...once a grannie actually is sent home to die...etc etc etc....holy moley!

Productive Americans will revolt....nationwide.

DNC Talking Points Drew| 3.4.10 @ 2:27PM

Ken,

Going to the gun show this weekend. Stocking up.
After he rams this thing thru, it's going to get ugly.

The "rightful owners" are going to want more big screen TV's, Cadillacs, Rolex's and Crunk.

They're probably thinking right now------we get free healthcare at the country hospital,, Chump.
We want our free s**t.

Why the hell are you so hellbent on screwing up our free healthcare to get into lines at the PO?

Where's our free gas? Man---you is one big az Chump!

MEISTER | 3.4.10 @ 2:48PM

Obama has been pretty open and has invited ideas on this for over a year, so let's be clear (and honest) here. ALSO, you really should know what you are writing about... this is simple RECONCILIATION, not the Nuclear option!!!! Go back and look up Bill Frist and the nuclear option please. These readers are easy to mislead so please get the facts right! Thank you.

DNC Talking Points Drew| 3.4.10 @ 2:57PM

Hey KEISTER,
When the Republicans wanted to do it----it was Nuclear.
Now the Dems---(cue lisp) itsth Reconthiliatthon. Sounds innocuous enough.

This isn't budget---it's policy. Taking over healthcare is not budget reconciliation.

See you in 2011. You think you're getting hosed by Obam now----wait until his cajones get chopped off---oh, wait--Michelle already has those.

He doesn't have any. If he did, he would have his ObamCare by now.

Chumps. Hope and Chumps.

Got Chump?
Why yes I do---we have Copyleft, Michael, Wally, Suzi Mygina

Michael| 3.5.10 @ 4:10AM

Healthcare bills have already passed the Senate and the House, genius.

MEISTER| 3.4.10 @ 3:05PM

Dear DNC Talking Points. You are mistaken about what the nuclear option is. And the Democrats did not call it that, the Republicans did at the time. The Democrats are proposing a simple majority which is reconciliation. Reconcilation was used quite frequently, whereas the nuclear was a threat from Bill Frist. Please look that up so you know what you are talking about next time.

JP| 3.4.10 @ 4:03PM

Reconcilliation has been used 19 times since 1975. In all cases the bills were already passed. What had to be reconciled was the finances of the bill, not the actual Bill. In everycase there was strong bipartisan support. ObamaCare was never passed, has not even got to conference committee. Be careful for what you wish for. And beware of the law of unintended consequences.

blueline99| 3.4.10 @ 4:45PM

You are so wrong.
The Senate and House have both approved a Health Reform bill.
http://www.cnn.com/2009/POLITI.....alth.care/
http://www.cnn.com/2009/POLITI.....index.html

How can you comment on something that you know absolutely nothing about... oh, you must listen to Fox News.

JP| 3.4.10 @ 8:17PM

Blueline,
There is no ObamaCare Bill. The Senate and House passed 2 completely different bills which would normally be hashed out in conference. But the bills cannot be reconciled -not without major rewrites. This thread has sure attracted a number trolls. Please go away.

Michael| 3.5.10 @ 4:12AM

As pointed out by blueline99 below, both the House and the Senate HAVE PASSED healthcare reform bills. Maybe if you watched less Faux Noise, and more actual news from an actual news organization you would have known that.

DNC Talking Points Drew| 3.4.10 @ 3:18PM

http://www.washingtonpost.com/.....01238.html

Got Chump, Chump?

You're now going to tell me that WaPo is Conservative, right?

ice9| 3.4.10 @ 4:42PM

I'll do it. The WaPo ed page is stupid-conservative. The newsrooms of the major corporate journo conglomerates are right-slanted--makes corporate sense. The average newsroom reporter's age has fallen five years in the past ten; they are tending more conservative but their main problem is simple inexperience. News shows are generally cautious-conservative, except FOX, which is some kind of alien-corporate-talking head far-right wingnut swill.

I know, I know, you guys disagree with this, but somebody's got to stick their head in the barn and point out the facts once in a while.

re: nuclear option--common name for an anti-filibuster rules shift proposed by frustrated Republicans, not the same as reconciliation.
Reconciliation is used for finance bills, that's true. Health care reform is a finance bill. Kapow.

Reconciliation has been used by Republicans twice as often as by Democrats.

Reconciliation has been used to pass measures that are politically unpopular according to polls, that is true. Some by Democrats, most by Republicans. It has also been used to pass measures that prove to be politically unpopular in the polls that matter, which are called elections. At the moment Obama is elected; you can plan ahead for 2012 if you like and vote against him, ditto your congresscritter and senator. But shove your polls because 1. you're lying about them--health care still quite popular; 2. your polls are lies--unethical slanted crap you unquestioningly absorb because, well, you unquestioningly absorb crap as this thread proves. 3. Only cowards rule by polls. HCR is the right thing to do, morally and fiscally. The HCR position of most Republican leaders--name any one--is a cynical and disgusting political ploy for power. It isn't likely that the red base will realize any time soon that they've been the victim of a systematic campaign of disinformation and ignorance, so you're probably safe for a few more cycles (hope the country can survive it) but a governing philosophy that includes keeping the voters angry and stupid and hoping they don't notice that we're lying our asses off, well, that's not a long-term winner.
I know you plan to keep blaming the economic collapse on democrats, and it's been a fairly successful tactic as far as disrupting town meetings, getting FOX airtime, and winning polls goes. But without cost-control HCR the economic collapse is going to go on and on, slo mo, and all that free time is going to give voters a chance to test their assumptions against reality. Bad trouble time a-coming! I give the shrieking hypocrites 8 years before the thing falls down and South Carolina and Oklahoma elect a Democrat to the Senate. So enjoy your illusion of power until then, and don't forget to enrich yourselves and crash the economy and start a bunch of wars.

ice9

DNC Talking Points Drew| 3.4.10 @ 5:15PM

"I'll do it. The WaPo ed page is stupid-conservative. "

ice9---the Mother Ship is leaving. You better go or you'll miss the Hale-Bop again. WaPo--Conservative---you must be Anarchian.

3. Only cowards rule by polls.

Clinton was a coward? Who knew?

Anyhow---its' pretty much over. They don't have to use reconciliation because it has already passed the Senate. Once it passes the House, it's law.

I really do hope you get it. Forget Teabagging---you guys really like being Barney Franked don't you.

2014 is just around the corner----to cover those 45000 uninsured we keep hearing about that die. That's only 225000 dead people by the time they get ObamaCare----it's so important, let's put it off 5 years.

Pick a number.

DMV
Post Office
Water Dept
Healthcare.

Don't say we didn't warn you.

ken (Old Texican)| 3.4.10 @ 5:54PM

I just love it when the children and the "useful idiots" come here.
...Sorta' makes me proud to say...."earn it arse!"

Conservative Bob| 3.4.10 @ 6:11PM

At this point I think it safe to say all hands have been revealed, by that I mean the Dems have openly declared their intention of cramming this thing down our collective throats. They are no longer pretending they will only do it if they have to they are out in the open and in full court press trying to justify their effort… see the trolls above.
The GOP along with any who will join them should begin tomorrow their nuclear response. That is nothing should move. Even a motion to adjourn should require a recorded vote and a full reading. Every bill every motion should have to cross the full 60 vote threshold every time. Time is their greatest enemy. If the have to get a 60 majority to decide which floor the Senate elevator stops on it is doubtful they will be able to move much legislation let alone get to the nuclear option.
Every word of every bill every time should be read aloud, every possible procedural delaying tactic should be employed. No judges, no cabinet positions, no anything…… until the election or they give up on this power grab.
The Dems use the hammer of the ‘party of no’ and to date the GOP has to a certain degree is fearful of that label. Embrace it whole heartedly, adopt the party of NO as a badge of honor. Where it with Pride, I am with the party of NO we are trying to save the Republic…. The grass roots should adopt the same in support. No More Profligate Spending; NO More Unconstitutional Power Grabs; NO More Nationalizing Industries and most of all NO ObamaCare!

Michael| 3.5.10 @ 4:14AM

"cramming this thing down our collective throats" -- what is it with conservatives and their fascination with forced oral sex. This same line has been repeated on Faux Noise again and again and again. Oh wait, that's right conservatives can't actually think for themselves - they need Rush Limbaugh, Glenn Beck, and Faux to give them their marching orders first. How convenient.

MattZ| 3.4.10 @ 6:13PM

"Reform has already passed the House with a majority."

Is the above statement true or false?

If you say true and then still bitch about reconciliation, then you are a partisan hack (and probably a douche bag to boot.)

If you say false, then you are delusional.

Get a life, wingnuts!
MZ

COnservative Bob| 3.4.10 @ 7:06PM

MattZ
A bill passed the house Ass Hat It could not pass the Senate. A completely different bill passed the Senate… but the Dems who had 60 vote majority in the Senate and an overwhelming majority in the house could not get enough DEMOCRATS to vote on this piece of excrement.

Now, because of that colossal failure they feel obliged to change the rules so to try yet again to ram this thing down our throat. .

I suspect that if they fail at that they will have the Messiah peace be upon him decree Obamacare by frigging Executive Order and you will look us in the face and claim it is the will of the people.

Answer me this genius, on the day after Arlin Specter switched and Frankin was sworn in and they achieved their blissful super majority….. what exactly did the need a single republican vote for?

Since the election we have been the minority by such overwhelming numbers as to be powerless to stop anything the Democrats chose to enact... yet all we hear is that the GOP is obstructing.

Buy yourself a crying towel and take your concerns to the people how are responsible. I suggest you start at Messiahareus.gov or the DNC but we have no need of your delusional carrying on here.

Ken (Old Texican)| 3.4.10 @ 7:21PM

Hello!
Doushe-bag here...............SQUIRT.....!

You are a dead sperm. heh.

Give this baby...(MattZ), a squirt. Hey MattZ, we are tired of carrying you on our backs. In your case, late term abortion sounds pretty good. heh.

DL| 3.4.10 @ 7:25PM

You are wrong. Most people favor health care reform. Unfortunately too many are swayed by your lies and propoganda. A tacit acknowledgement that the health care reform is toxic!? How on earth did you stretch that out of his comment about how the bill would play politically? Wow - very gossipy.

The reason Democrats vote for bills when the Republicans are in control is that Democrats think for themselves and deliberate about what is best for the American people. Republicans just follow their leader and obstruct all the way for the sole purpose of political gain.

By the way, you guys are disgusting for launching a campaign to generate fear among the public about the President and creating grotesque caricatures of the President, Speaker and Senate Majority Leader.

COnservative Bob| 3.4.10 @ 7:34PM

I am luaghin g so hard at your idiotic statement I can't type.... what a tool!

Michael| 3.5.10 @ 4:15AM

Apparently based on your post, you can't type or spell. Not suprising for a conservaretard.

DL| 3.5.10 @ 9:22AM

Bob - I've just proven my point. Only insults come from your end. No debate, thought or insight. Now, who exactly is the tool?

ice9| 3.4.10 @ 7:44PM

The Virginia DMV is a model of order and efficiency. Their reservation system is genius--numbered appointment sets, highly accurate, you can trade up or down, and you can log in online.

Swedish, of course.

PS Clinton may have paid too much attention to polls, I'll give you that. Forget exactly when I brought him up, but my meds are way too expensive and my deductible is too high, so forgive me . Clinton's my least favorite Republican president in the last fifty years because he accomplished so much. What a pain! Lowered deficits, reduced government, gave Republicans a bad name and a big surplus to fritter away. Pain.

ice9

bon27| 3.4.10 @ 7:55PM

I noted Obama's dislike of America before he was elected.

He was a follower of the racist Farakhan, a member of a church that G.D'd America and his mentor was a racist who hated America and white people.
Obama refused to pledge allegiance to the American flag until he no longer to do so and remain an American President. He had never done so before. He was a member of a group (cult) that would not even fly the American flag in their midst, however they flew the African flag and pledged allegiance to it.

Obama came into office with an agenda to get even with America by changing it into a Marxist or Socialist nation. One of the first things he did to this Christian nation was to abolish the 'Day of Prayer' which has existed for as long as America has been a nation and even before. Check out the first American Document - 'The Mayflower Compact' and the Great Seal. Both acknowledge God has the head.
We must get back to teaching our children the history of our country and the reason it was established, one of which was to advance Christianity but instead leaders are trying to hide the real history

Michael| 3.5.10 @ 4:16AM

"We must get back to teaching our children the history of our country and the reason it was established, one of which was to advance Christianity."

You are a rightwing, theocratical nutcase. Please take your dose of Haldol - you need it badly.

bon27| 3.4.10 @ 7:55PM

I noted Obama's dislike of America before he was elected.

He was a follower of the racist Farakhan, a member of a church that G.D'd America and his mentor was a racist who hated America and white people.
Obama refused to pledge allegiance to the American flag until he no longer to do so and remain an American President. He had never done so before. He was a member of a group (cult) that would not even fly the American flag in their midst, however they flew the African flag and pledged allegiance to it.

Obama came into office with an agenda to get even with America by changing it into a Marxist or Socialist nation. One of the first things he did to this Christian nation was to abolish the 'Day of Prayer' which has existed for as long as America has been a nation and even before. Check out the first American Document - 'The Mayflower Compact' and the Great Seal. Both acknowledge God has the head.
We must get back to teaching our children the history of our country and the reason it was established, one of which was to advance Christianity but instead leaders are trying to hide the real history

Liberty or Death| 3.4.10 @ 8:52PM

Susan Brei, I weep for your kind. You will eat your own words before your eyes close.

The cognitive dissonance you displayed above is beyond ignorance. I do not even think the English language has a word for the utter mental abandonment, lack of grey matter, misfiring synapse patterns in your melon... Oh hell, I give up. There's no helping you.

Mark my words- you will be eating yours before you are dust.

And I for one would rather die, than forsake the yoke of a monarch, for subservience under a tyrant, especially one as dumb as The One.

OLD MAN| 3.4.10 @ 9:57PM

I can't help but laugh when I see the lying egomaniac with the 2 props on either side of him, making his 7000th speech to his subjects. And he had the balls to call Eric Cantors open health Care bill a prop. It's enough to make this old man laugh so hard I cry for America.

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Richard V| 3.5.10 @ 1:25AM

A few posts earlier some of you have broached the subject of the government confiscating your 401(k) money. The following is an excerpt from Ron Holland's article in Whisky & Gunpowder (an Investor's Daily Guide):
“In plain English, the idea is for the government to take your retirement savings in return for a promise to pay you some monthly benefit in your retirement years.” ~ Newt Gingrich and Peter Ferrara, “Class Warfare’s Next Target: 401(k) Savings.”

"Gingrich and Ferrara are correct in their recent editorial on the Obama Administration proposals for new mandatory automatic IRA accounts and their goal to force existing retirement funds into government controlled annuities. But this is only the tip of the iceberg for Teresa Ghilarducci and her big government proposals to loot your IRA and retirement plan assets to fund the federal government. "

"Future Washington revenue needs and the growing treasury debt may require government mandates directing retirement plans to purchase government bonds. Stealth nationalization and ultimately confiscation of a majority of private retirement assets is coming to bail out failing state and municipal retirement plans which already have a deficit of at least one trillion dollars. Eventually underfunded union plans and even a bailout of the federal retirement system could take place as these groups line up to get another pound of flesh from productive Americans who worked hard and saved for their retirement years."

Now you all know what Obama is planning to do after the heath care takeover. Next is your 401(k) in exchange for a pittance. Welcome to the United Socialist States of America (USSA)!

Latisha| 3.5.10 @ 1:28AM

When, oh when, are the underlings in the military going to stage a coup?

John Bailo| 3.5.10 @ 1:45AM

Obama is not about protecting the American people...he's about protecting the sincure of the top dogs. Scott Brown's statement says it all:

"I recognize that our federal workers do important work," he said at a January campaign event. "But it's not right that lesser-paid private-sector workers suffering through a recession have to pay for expensive government salaries."

Amanda| 3.5.10 @ 1:50AM

Obama should be impeached for sabotage. He's fulfilling his pals, Wright et.al., wish to damn America. You don't need a nuclear weapon to destroy the US; simply put an American hating communist into the highest office of the land to do the job. Our founding father's must be rolling in their graves and damning the stupid heirs to the greatest country in history of which they wasted their precious blood to obtain.
I'm sorry to say that should the economy collapse, or terrorists bombs start going off, I for one won't shed a tear because the stupid Americans brought this cancer on themselves.

Richard Baker| 3.5.10 @ 8:19AM

Latisha:
The military will not be leading a coup d'etat. The concept of civil control of the military goes back to Washington and is strongly held within the ranks. Been that way since the Founding. Yes, we've had dictator wannabes before such as Huey Long but notice that the Regular military has stayed out of the fray. There will be, I believe, no "Seven Days in May" scenario.

Ken (Old Texican)| 3.5.10 @ 11:33AM

Richard, don't forget "retired veterans". They are private citizens now.

Thurly| 3.5.10 @ 3:25PM

Hope Obama's nuclear option explodes the Republican myth that the people don't want this healthcare package. We do and much, much more: a public option with an opt-out. Let's see which package you pick when it passes!

Conservative Bob| 3.5.10 @ 7:08PM

Thurly,
When the government forces (under threat of fine and incarceration) those of us who do actually work and produce to pay for benefits for all those that do not such as yourself (which over time will make the government the only provider) what choice will the producers have?
Your question displays your total ignorance.

Please explain to me why you feel that others must be compelled to pay for services you consume and refuse to pay for yourself?

I am sure you want much much more, here is a clue work for it earn it. OR if you prefer just keep asking mommy to buy it for you she has indulged you thus far and turned you into the fine independent self-reliant specimen you are today….

Achilles Toejam| 3.6.10 @ 1:46AM

You got that right Conservative Bob, this fight is not new they have been trying to get socialized medicine in the United States since the 1930s FDR's new Bill of Rights but even he knew that sweeping changes like this had to be done through constitutional amendment not statute law. Our Constitution gives the federal government no jurisdiction or authority to be doing this but since progressives on both sides of the aisle have bought the (Constitution is a living document) bull hockey which is nothing more than political cover to disregard constitutional limitations on power and make it up as they go.

The vast majority of Americans oppose government run healthcare and understand that it is the socialist nose under the tent whereby they can expand later, Sen. Tom Harkin Iowa has came out and admitted that this is merely the first step and Obama is on record during the campaign as desiring a single-payer national health care system socialized medicine, he is obsessed with it and he doesn't care what the American people think, Herman Melville's Capt. Ahab of the Pequad is the perfect analogy of Obama's single-minded obsession with his healthcare reform and like Ahab's obsession destroyed him his ship and crew Obama will take the Democrat party down that vortex as well as Pelosi whips her congressman into a frenzy to throw themselves on their political swords for president who may or may not even be constitutionally eligible for the office, it would be a simple matter to clear this question up, an interesting question though if it turns out that Obama is not a natural born citizen wouldn't every piece of legislation and executive order that he signed be null and void? Boy talk about a constitutional crisis I think something like this would tear the country apart, this question should have been answered one way or the other before he even ran.

I have talked to some people like Thurly and have found them sorely lacking in a basic understanding of the philosophy of the founding fathers, where they got the ideas that they did when they put this country together and came up with our Constitution, also lacking is a passable knowledge of history or basic free-market economics, but instead having been indoctrinated into a socialist mindset through the government schools and college that only government can save us. In talking to these people I suggest starting a freedom library and recommend two books to start with from Cleon Skousen one is "The 5000 Year Leap" and the other is "The Making of America" the latter is one of the best resources I have seen.

"I believe there are more instances of the abridgement of the freedom of the people by the gradual and silent encroachment of those in power, than by violent and sudden usurpation."
President James Madison (1751-1836) speech, Virginia Convention, 1788

Osamas Pajamas| 3.6.10 @ 10:00PM

Right. But when the Supreme Court either ignores constitutional limitations of state power or simply lies about the meaning of the constituion, we are under no obligation whatever to "obey" the law or "obey" the government. Indeed, our moral obligation to to disrespect the law and to disrespect the government and to kick Uncle Sam in the nuts at every opportunity --- publicly --- so as to encourage others to adopt disobedience as a daily policy.

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Ralph Novy| 3.6.10 @ 9:40PM

Philip:

"More than anything else, Barack Obama’s political rise was defined by the promise that he would usher in an era of post-partisanship after the bitter divisiveness that scarred Washington during the Bush years."

Dead wrong right off the bat.

No wonder so much insultingly incredible stuff followed.

The change that was promised was not towards "post-partisanship" or "bipartisanship" or "nonpartisanship." It was towards economic and legal fairness. Period.

Your characterization is dishonest. Period.

Osamas Pajamas| 3.6.10 @ 10:05PM

Nope, sport, YOU'RE WRONG! OhBummer --- and the Democrat-captured media --- filled the atmosphere with his lies about postpartisanship, bipartisanship, transparency, pot-racial relations.

Now widely seen for what he is, the president presents a problem for the Democrat-captured media. They pump out his propaganda for him --- and, like the opinion monitors in Ayn Rand’s novel, “Atlas Shrugged” --- they are dodging brickbats and rotten vegetables. He’s pompous, pampered, and pretentious --- a pseudo-intellectual fop. He’s a glorified, smooth-lyin’ dandy, and slicker than Sick Willie Clinton. He’s a dictator-on-the-make, a bloodsxcking, predatory humanitarian thug, and a low-down skunk. He lies when he inhales and he lies when he exhales; his oxygen is the falsification of reality. He is a friend of the poor and the downtrodden --- indeed, you can hear the milk of human kindness sloshing around inside of him when he walks. He declares himself the post-racial leader --- “Let me clear!” he intones --- and he hides behind his race, daring his critics to put their reputation for fairness at risk. He pauses to ponder the portent of his propaganda --- and it is fakery; he smiles and his mendacity comes shining through. Shake hands with Barak Hushpuppy OhBummer --- “The Mistake of ‘08” --- and America’s first and last Arab president. Now count your fingers.

Oldefarte| 3.7.10 @ 4:53PM

No Ralphie, it was towards WELFARISM [or WEALTH REDISTRIBUTION as he accurately informed Joe the Plumber]. 'Fairness' is akin to the liberalism of equating that ALL MEN ARE CREATED EQUAL to the [bullexcrement] ALL MEN'S LIVES SHOULD BE GRANTED EQUALITY BY GOVERNMENT. Man was created by God with what's known [not by you obviously] as FREE WILL, by which individual men determine their lives by means of their own hard work, initiative, educational pursuit, and desires. Liberals desire to facilitate equality by means of governmental degrees is otherwise known as SOCIALISM, COMMUNISM OR MARXISM [take your pick]. Oh, and once agaim, in your vocabulary/speak GIT [as GOOBER would say]!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Osamas Pajamas| 3.6.10 @ 9:55PM

Nuke the bxstxrd.

Osamas Pajamas| 3.6.10 @ 10:02PM

But here's what I really like about OhBummer and the OhBummer Wrecking Crew :

tt19| 3.8.10 @ 7:22AM

What a new world! charity is with you!

tt15| 3.8.10 @ 7:23AM

charity is with you!

reconciliable reconciliation| 3.8.10 @ 4:51PM

Once the bill is passed the public will support it. "Conservatives ' will learn again that they were wrong to underestimate the President, the american people and their elected representatives.

婚活| 5.27.11 @ 2:43AM

Does U.S.A. have the concept called the action for marriage?