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Time to Go for the Kill
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Obamacare Implodes
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Downsize the Liberals
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Fight Back! Privatize the FAA!
April 24, 2013 | 65 comments
The Right Prescription
Obamacare: Still a Threat to Your Life
Now, post-summit, more than ever.
The true reality of last week’s health care summit, what was really going on between the lines, was ugly and scary. I have been deeply involved in these health care debates for almost 30 years, ever since I co-authored the first paper published on Health Savings Accounts (HSAs) with John Goodman in 1981. What the health summit made clear to me is that the Democrats do not understand what the Republicans are talking about on health care. Indeed, they have no idea what the American people are talking about either, or why growing majorities of us oppose what they are trying to do.
But it gets even worse. The health summit made clear that the Democrats do not understand what they themselves are doing on health care. They have been misled and manipulated by left-wing ideologues.
Why Your Life Is At Risk
Let me reveal my personal stake in this health care debate. My life is at risk. So is yours, as well as the lives of our children, our parents, and everyone else in our families. For the thorough government takeover of health care in America the Democrats are feverishly pursuing, and the outdated socialized medicine policies from other countries they are so religiously committed to adopting, would trash the very ability of the system to provide the health care many of us are likely to need in coming years to extend our lives, and to maintain our basic quality of life.
The decimation of our health care system under Obamacare begins with government mandates, regulations, bureaucracies, and controls. The House and Senate health care bills that President Obama and the Democrats refuse to take off the table create close to 100 new health care bureaucracies, boards, commissions and programs. This is the government takeover of health care.
These new authorities arrogate to the government the power to decide “what works” in health care, and what doesn’t. The code words they use include “best practices” — a government bureaucracy in Washington is going to decide what are the “best practices” in providing health care for you and your children, not you and your doctor. Another code phrase is “reward doctors for quality not quantity.” Government bureaucracies in Washington do not know how to do this. But they will make a huge mess out of your health care in trying to.
These government bureaucracies will also have the power to cut off your health care when they decide it is no longer worth the money. We have already seen a glimpse of this in the declaration by a bureaucracy, to be expanded with more powers under Obamacare, that women over 72 should not have mammograms. What they are saying here is that if you are over 72 and get breast cancer, they don’t want to know about it. Just take the painkiller and go home, to paraphrase President Obama. They believe they can buy more votes taking the money for your care and spending it somewhere else. This is called “cost effectiveness.”
The destruction of the health care system is then expanded through the payment system. Among the code words here are “pay for performance” and “accountable care.” This is how the bureaucracy will enforce its dictates concerning what works and what doesn’t, best practices, cost effectiveness, and termination of health care no longer deemed worthy. Doctors and hospitals will be rewarded through payments if they follow the centralized bureaucracy’s dictates; they will be penalized with reduced payments if they don’t. You will never know what happened to you. The doctor is not going to tell you, “I could have saved your daughter’s life with this new treatment, but that is not yet a best practice according to the government.”
Health care obliteration then continues by constricting the payments overall to doctors, hospitals, specialists, surgeons, health care innovators, and other health providers. This is where the $500 billion in Medicare cuts come in, which is $800 billion in the first 10 years of full implementation under Obamacare. Seniors will soon find out that constricted payments mean constricted services, because President Obama has already begun cutting payments under Medicare, particularly for cancer and heart specialists, treatments, and diagnostics. But this is just part of the constricted payments to the entire health system under Obamacare, which is how President Obama thinks he will bring the cost curve down. The sad truth is that the only cost control in Obamacare involves health care rationing, which means denying you health care. Those union orchestrated sad sacks marching in the streets chanting for “health care” are suckers.
The final component ultimately leaving us with Potemkin Village health care is the effect of all of this on investment incentives. Nobody is going to invest the capital necessary to develop the new, life-saving health care treatments and technologies and miracle cure drugs, and build the new facilities and purchase the new equipment to provide them, with the constricted payments of Obamacare as their reward. That money will instead join the capital fleeing to build new factories providing good jobs in the increasingly booming economies of Brazil, India, and China.
We can begin to see these effects of Obamacare in Massachusetts, which adopted some of the Obamacare policies a few years ago. As John Goodman writes in his Health Alert (“Scaling the Summit”) for February 26, “As a result, the waiting times to see a new doctor in Boston are twice as long as in any other U.S. city. And there are still as many people going to emergency rooms for care in Massachusetts today as there were before the Massachusetts health plan was adopted.”
But none of the supporters of Obamacare — the bloggers, the talk show hosts, the literal clowns like Bill Maher, Jon Stewart and Wanda Sykes that now get media coverage to lecture us on public policy — understand any of this. They have their heads firmly and deeply stuck in the sand, and insist it is all made up. And as for Democrat members of Congress, they don’t have a clue.
Fighting for Their Lives
But when their own lives are at risk, suddenly they can understand it quite well. Consider the case of Danny Williams, age 60, Premier of Newfoundland, Canada, who secretly snuck into the U.S. for his own heart surgery. After his surgery at Mount Sinai Medical Center in Miami, Williams told reporters, “This was my heart, my choice, and my health. I did not sign away my right to get the best possible health care for myself when I entered politics.”
Why Williams felt he had to come to America was further illuminated by the recent heart surgery of former President Bill Clinton. As Dr. Marc Siegel explained in the New York Post,
About the Author
Peter Ferrara is Director of Entitlement and Budget Policy at the Heartland Institute, General Counsel of the American Civil Rights Union, Senior Fellow at the National Center for Policy Analysis, and Senior Policy Advisor on Entitlements and Budget Policy at the National Tax Limitation Foundation. He served in the White House Office of Policy Development under President Reagan, and as Associate Deputy Attorney General of the United States under President George H.W. Bush.
Letter to the Editor View all comments (207) | Leave a comment
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Karibou Kid| 3.3.10 @ 6:43AM
"They have their heads firmly and deeply stuck in the sand, and insist it is all made up. "
Mr. Ferrara, I disagree. Their heads are stuck somewhere but it is NOT in the sand...
Pingback| 3.3.10 @ 6:57AM
Obamacare: Still a Threat to Your Life links to this page. Here’s an excerpt:
coal carrier| 3.3.10 @ 7:07AM
I have one question for all you progressives out there who think that Obamacare is a great idea. Since Medicare, a government run system, is suppose to be in trouble, what makes you think another government created system is going to be any better? Please be intellectually honest. The very government proposing this healthcare circus is directly responsible for the vast “problems” in our society.
Northright| 3.3.10 @ 1:06PM
Medicare, social security and all government entitlements are in trouble--the answer is clear: all government programs are mismanaged and a step backward. I would gladly give up all government entitlement programs if the government would let me keep my money!
coal carrier| 3.3.10 @ 8:14PM
HOO-RAH!!!
Copyleft| 3.4.10 @ 8:35AM
Medicare is in trouble because it's underfunded, not because it's not working. If anything, it's working TOO well, just like Social Security (another very successful and popular program).
And there's no need for cries of "intellectual dishonesty"--all you need to do is look OUTSIDE the borders of the U.S. to see national healthcare programs working just fine. In every other civilized nation on Earth.
The notion that "no government-run program, let alone a healthcare program, can possibly work" is not just rhetoric: it's objectively false. The fact is, they DO work.
jeff| 3.4.10 @ 8:59AM
Copyleft, you are a dangerous fool! Do youself a favor and remove your head from the sand.
David| 3.4.10 @ 3:15PM
Copyleft, you have no clue. To imply that Medicare is underfunded and we are under-taxed shows just how far out of touch you are. Medicare and and Social Security are actuarialy trillions of dollars underfunded. You can take all of our defense budget (as liberals are want to do) and direct it to Medicare and Social Security and still be trillions in the hole while at the same time leaving the country idefensible.
And this statement shows your utter lack of knowledge:
"And there's no need for cries of "intellectual dishonesty"--all you need to do is look OUTSIDE the borders of the U.S. to see national healthcare programs working just fine. In every other civilized nation on Earth."
And this is why the prime minister of a Canadian province came to the United States to have a heart procedure. Because the governent run and paid system in Canada offers such better care than what he received here. Speaking of intellectual dishonesty.
Copyleft| 3.4.10 @ 3:54PM
I see you have that same linguistic problem that afflicts many here.. the inability to finish a sentence.
A Canadian minister came here for a heart procedure because HE COULD AFFORD IT. Many of our fellow Americans have no access to this "wonderful healthcare system" because of a lack of money... do you not recognize this as a serious problem?
Speaking of sociopthy.
Eddie Russell| 3.5.10 @ 8:27AM
I see you have revealed your true core belief in your response; namely that if one person cannot afford it all must be punished. Your solution is to give us all a homogenized sytem that gives us all exactly the same lousy care. At least we will all be miserable on an equal level. Brilliant!
dmp| 3.5.10 @ 6:27PM
Hey Copyleft :
You really don't copy what has been happening around you and within your community and your country if you are really an American citien. For the Obama Democrats to spend the money America DO NOT HAVE, is pure " GENOCIDE " of all the unborn children of this country. You know why? Aside from " MANDATING" abortions with federal funds, (Democrats) will use Medicare as one of their milking cows to sustain their wasteful ways of government. Do you copy?
mari| 3.7.10 @ 10:38AM
The saddest laugh of the day - ""--all you need to do is look OUTSIDE the borders of the U.S. to see national healthcare programs working just fine. In every other civilized nation on Earth. "
Do you forget that we have the WWW at our fingertips and can read the horrifying reports from "other civilized nations" re their treatment of patients? And why on earth would so many from just Canada, for one, come to America and pay out of pocket for their medical treatment if their socialized medicine was "working just fine"
(this reply not meant to help YOU understand, for I suspect you know the truth but are a socialist at heart, if not in fact. I post only to remind others that we need not swallow such socialist propaganda.)
Bill Hussein O'Stalin| 3.3.10 @ 7:14AM
I turned in some tags in at the DMV yesterday and marveled at how the public can be trained to accept less as more. As each number was announced for the next person in the electronic queue the lines grew ever longer and it was standing room only.
Health care will be no different even if several Republican measures are adopted. The Republicans should do everything they can to scuttle this disease until the November elections. The only health care reform needed is to get the government out of health care entirely but that's not likely.
The public at large has been dumbed down to accept the unacceptable. Shoddy service by government agencies is the accepted norm. It will be worse in the health care industry as illegal aliens storm the centers where health care will be rationed, and tax paying citizens will be treated with the same disdain one finds on display at the DMV.
The health bill contains a provision which requires health care insurers to spend 80% of the collected premiums on health care. Historically, many states have limited that figure to 65% by law.
The reason for that is that if you spend more then 65% of your revenues you will go bankrupt. That 80% threshold will drive private insurers out of business and add another 5 million to the lines of the unemployed.
As more unemployed hit the unemployment rolls unemployment taxes will go up forcing employers to either lay off more employees or go out of business.
In short, the government has made a mess of many services in our society. Yet, the herds of serfs keep grazing, accepting less and less while they are being boiled like a frog.
We are the hollow men
We are the stuffed men
Leaning together
Headpiece filled with straw. Alas!
Our dried voices, when
We whisper together
Are quiet and meaningless
As wind in dry grass
T.S. Eliott
Pingback| 3.3.10 @ 7:23AM
Must Know Headlines 3.3.2010 — ExposeTheMedia.com links to this page. Here’s an excerpt:
RedBuzzard| 3.3.10 @ 7:52AM
"But what is adopted by reconciliation can and will be repealed by reconciliation...".
Only the "fixes" can be repealed by reconciliation, leaving the full Senate version of the bill intact which can only be repealed with 60 votes in the Senate, a majority vote in the House, and a Republican in the White House.
That could not possibly happen until 2012, and how likely is that trifecta to come about, especially a 60 seat Republican majority in the Senate?
If they succeed in convincing the House to approve the Senate version, we are stuck with health care for a long time, if not forever.
John - TMF| 3.3.10 @ 9:10AM
Um... yes... AND one little darker thing... The GOP is unlikely to get 60 seats in the senate to foil any filibusters. This is what the Dems are banking on.
If this monster is passed, it is unlikely to be repealed in whole because the Lert will filibuster any attempt to do so. They are counting on the understanding that 40 or so seats in the Senate are likely remain in their hands. The various social welfare queen states who will continue to vote Democrats into power (States with huge deep blue cities).
So the Dems know that if they get this done, it will most likely never get undone, no matter how hard the Republican/Tea Party/Libertarian/Living try.
That is why they are risking all for this. The State is their god, and they worship it with great fervor.
r/The Mighty Fahvaag
johnba| 3.3.10 @ 1:37PM
Absolutely! On the "Road to Serfdom."
david| 3.4.10 @ 7:33PM
read andy mccarthy's piece I think last saturday feb 27th on this--just brilliant...pelosi and obama etc are quite literally more than willing to lose big in november as long as they get this sucker passed...they'll be back after the moronic repubs. screw it up, and the monstrosity known as obamacare will be so rooted into the gov't, it will take a nuclear explosion to uproot it--I admire the Sherman-like total warfare method of these fearless leaders... they're fools, but they definitely know what they are doing, and the typical American voter is too stupid to see this--why they voted these people in in the first place--all the masses want anymore is their free-bee from uncle sam...they're too lazy to read up on how they have become the useful idiots so easily at the disposal of obama, pelosi, etc....ahhhh!
mari| 3.7.10 @ 10:45AM
Some states are already gearing up to reject obamacare, invoking state's rights.
Can they, indeed, do this?
And if so, how would this affect patients ability to travel out of their state for some treatments under specialists?
Susan Eno| 3.3.10 @ 8:33AM
I'm afraid you do not understand how a high deductible HSA type health insurance policy operates in a state like Massachusetts the land of endless mandadates. What is being proposed from many quarters nationwide resembles more and more what we have in Masschusetts. Over the last 3 years our high deductible policy has gone up every year to what will be about $21,000 per year if we keep it on April 1st. That's a huge increase almost $700 more per month higher than last year. In theory a high deductible "castrophic policy" should work but not if your state requires all sorts of features in what is called "credible coverage". The rest of the country will have credible coverage if whatever bill is passed and therefore insurance will cost more nationwide not just in Massachusetts.
Lazy Jack | 3.3.10 @ 8:55AM
Abraham Lincoln called it a lullaby during his campaign against Douglas. What he meant was the political promises contrived to make people feel comfortable enough that they would sleep through the important debates (then it was slavery) and allow the back room deals to be made. In this case the democrats are allowing the lullaby to lure them into voting for healthcare legislation that will indenture every man, woman and child in this country with little or no demonstrable return to the people.
Our lives are at stake, indeed. It seems there is ample statistical evidence that as the welfare state has grown fatter in the years since 1932, GDP growth has abated. Education and innovation associated with a robust capitalist democracy also appear to be an endagered species on this continent. In other words, the life of the republic is also in serious danger. But listen to the lullaby of free healthcare for all, and all will be well.
But, what do I know.
Your Blue Collar Relation,
Lazy Jack
http://thanksforthelaughs.word.....9/lullaby/
http://thanksforthelaughs.word.....onscience/
Jobe| 3.3.10 @ 9:29AM
Get ready! Here comes the medical post office. No truly intelligent person can possibly believe that the federal government can effectively administer a national health care aparatus.
hoads| 3.3.10 @ 9:35AM
I don't think Republicans have done a good enough job dispelling the myths, lies and propaganda the Dems and media have proffered to denigrate our healthcare system. The "47 million uninsured" was allowed to proliferate for over a year before being refuted albeit, ineffectively. Even now, the Dems tout their bill provides insurance to 30 million uninsured uncontested by Republicans.
Even when I've seen Republicans together with Dems on Sunday shows, Dems continue to spout "37th in infant mortality", "we spend more and our outcomes are not better", etc. without a peep from Republicans at the table.
These "facts" have become sealed in the minds of the portion of the public that supports Obamacare when, in fact, it is nothing more than propaganda.
And, where are the Republicans willing to elucidate the fact that Medicare is unsustainable and that the doctors and Republicans who did not support Medicare in 1965 have been vindicated in their opposition to Medicare as socialized medicine that will lead to government dictation of healthcare.
obamabuster| 3.5.10 @ 7:24PM
hoads :
You have noticed that the Republicans did not pay too much attention on the Dems claims that 30 millions uninsured will be covered because; they primarily focused their strength on STOPPING the Obamacare before it takes off from the ground. Then when they are sure the Obamacare is " SHOT DEAD", they are quite sure, the idea of " FUNDING ABORTION WITH FEDERAL DOLLARS, is also stopped. Also, one of the multiple reasons why the Republicans are strongly opposed for the Obamacare, is the astronomical expenses that AMERICA would face; that even future generations will be indebted all their lives. Maybe the Obama Democrats DO NOT SEE THESE EXPENSES, because they are " INVISIBLE ", that could only be seen through the lives of the " SUFFERING AMERICANS "
pjsandstrom| 3.3.10 @ 9:37AM
One piece of Orwellian odd facts -- the British version of the 'best practice/death panels' is named N.I.C.E. If it were not so serious, it would be funny!
Jason Kane| 3.3.10 @ 10:01AM
I have written to my democrat senator, Bill Nelson of Florida, for whom I have voted each time he ran for office since the 70's, and told him that if he votes for this healthcare bill I will not only vote for whomever his opponent is, but will campaign for that opponent and donate the legal maximum to him or her.
How many of you have done ANYTHING? Get off your dead as--s and DO SOMETHING!
obamabuster| 3.5.10 @ 7:46PM
Jason Kane :
Wow!! You are a kind of breed America is looking for. A leader who is strong, honest, brave and patriotic. I am trying to do the same in my home state of Illinois. I'm a member of SBC ( Susan B. Anthony) through this website I am able to write my Senators and Congressman on issues and concerns of the people like; Health Care Reform, Abortions, and etc. Keep that honorable actions going and your rewards will be waiting in no time.
I've been searching for all the updated email addresses of all the Senators and Congressmen in America, so we can express our concerns to them without asking anyone.
Good luck and God bless us all.
Pete| 3.3.10 @ 10:16AM
These elitist sacks of crap could care less what their constituents think. They don't see themselves as representatives. They think they are rulers. And they are being promised the equivalent of 70 virgins (cushy gov job after they don't win re-election) or being outright threatened by the Chicago thugs above them. I have written my senators and am on to the house today. Their own self-preservation instincts are really the last hope before I start a savings plan so I can fly to wherever the good doctors choose to relocate.
Ken (Old Texican)| 3.3.10 @ 10:29AM
Mr Ferrara,
HAS EVERYONE GONE CRAZY?
God bless him even Rush Limbaugh continues to talk about ONE SIXTH of our economy.
Hells bells, this monstrosity will grow just like all the other government "programs".
It could literally eat up half of our economy a few years down the way.
PLEASE, LET'S GET SERIOUS!
Pingback| 3.3.10 @ 10:43AM
Unsustainability Is Upon Us | Chicago Daily Observer links to this page. Here’s an excerpt:
martin j smith| 3.3.10 @ 10:59AM
As I said in a previous post, I am not sure that the Republican leaders "get it" enough. Here lies the problem of RINOISM within the party. I fear that they are too willing to make a deal with Obama in order to avoid a confrontation. Fear of conflict or are they currupted who knows. But what is needed are leaders who are not fearful of telling Obama and his ilk: You are liars !!! And then say what is the truth. What is not admitted by RINO types is that this Democrat Party cannot be appeased. Better to confront,fight politically and let the American know your side and why the Left is dangerous to this nation.
SPO101 | 3.3.10 @ 11:03AM
The US Government is broke because of a serious misallocation of resources. We all know about the wars, corporate welfare, Medicare Part Idiot and tax cuts for the rich, right? But what about all those 1000’s tits on a bull agencies that waste the taxpayer dollars on a DAILY basis. Want an example? Look at the DEA…
I watched a DEA operation on cable TV… IT was one of the most ridicules WASTE of tax revenue I’ve ever saw. A whole room full of highly paid agents working OVERTIME on a suspected meth case. 36 hours into the bust the agents had yet to find any drugs in the truck in question. After 42 hours the agents had to let the driver go on with his job of delivering Washington apples to New Jersey…
A WHOLE WORK WEEK FOR THAT? What the #*~?
The USA got money for THAT but not for health care for all? Americans have to listen to these MULTI-MILLIONAIRE politicians like Evan Bayh whine/cry about the deficit and how government has to stop spending. Where were these fools while Bush/Cheney were spending our national wealth like a crack Ho with a credit card?
These elected hard heads won’t consider maybe they’ve been WASTING OUR TAX DOLLARS for the last few decades
I notice the public sector has the kind of job/pension/healthcare security those of us in the private sector could only dream about. Civil servants my @$$… just who is serving WHO?
I once spent 15 hours in a County hospital emergency room trying to get treated for a broken hand. In that time I saw 16 Deputy Sheriff’s going in/out, flirting with cute nurses or transporting inmates. The County had revenue for THAT but in all that time County government allocated revenue for ONLY ONE DOCTOR ON DUTY! Does that sound right to ANYONE? Or does that tell you what a vicious police state the USA has become?
If I was a Narc I’d be ashamed to admit it. When was the first drug law enacted, 1914? Productivity like THAT in the private sector and we’d still hauling ice and shoveling coal.
Who cares if there’s degenerates among us STUPID enough to get hooked on meth or crack? The idiots would be smoking banana peels if there was nothing else so quit wasting our national wealth on trying to save these losers… It’s time to thin the herd, both hard drug addicts and right-wing wackos…
It’s the Blue Dog Democrats (and Joe Lieberman) that screwed up BIGTIME! You middle-of-the-road @$$0’s gave power BACK to a damned Republican minority… You C@*/$ m*~/^#!’s ruined any hopes I still had in me for CHANGE. THANKS FOR NOTHING!
I CURSE you traitors to the worst part of hell. I hope all that talk about revolution, chopping the aristocrats up and feeding them to the homeless, IS TRUE! Cause you Blue Dogs would be the FIRST ON MY LIST!
How’s that for being the wacky LEFT? Thank GOD there’s cutting edge, bold Progressives on the American scene with the COURAGE to make DEMANDS for ETHICS, RESPONSIBILITY, ACCOUNTABILITY…
consciousmc.blogspot.com
Deborah D | 3.3.10 @ 11:09AM
You give a perfect example that "liberalism is a mental disease." Did you even read the article? Your rand makes absolutely no sense. Do you just want to condemn future generations to a life under the thumb of your so-called "progressives"? I hope you have children and that they curse you for what you've done to their country.
Ryan| 3.3.10 @ 11:25AM
Where is Ferrara wrong?
Deborah D | 3.3.10 @ 11:04AM
I'm sick after reading Mr. Ferrara's article. Get me to a doctor quick before this monstrosity becomes law.
If this gets voted in, I fear what will happen in this country. I expect chaos. These people are pure evil. Pray because He does work in mysterious ways.
Mattled| 3.3.10 @ 11:28AM
My spouses best friend is an Obama supporter and previous delegate.
They have been conspicuously silent and haven't visited us since Oct 2008.
I am outspoken in my opposition to Obama and I know they have probably gotten the message I WILL confront them on the Obamination.
Chicken Sh**s!!
Every Obam supporter has to be confronted and questioned. Ridiculed really.
Get to your Indy and Moderate friends/neighbors/relatives.
We have a few short months to stop this monstrosity.
Let's Roll!
Gloria O'Brien| 3.3.10 @ 4:08PM
Your letting your rage against Obama destroy your own friendships? Sad.
Houston Rao| 3.3.10 @ 4:14PM
Friends don't leech off friends other the guise of the law.
Gloria O'Brien| 3.3.10 @ 4:20PM
That's very vague. What are you trying to say?
hoads| 3.3.10 @ 11:29AM
SPO101, how is it that you can rail against what you define as government waste and inefficiency and yet cry out for government issued, controlled healthcare? Why would you think healthcare would be any more efficient and accountable than the DEA? In fact, we already have massive fraud, waste and abuse in the current government healthcare programs (Medicare/Medicaid) with some estimates as much as 100 billion a year! That would cover a lot of insurance policies for the current uninsured.
So how is it we need a 1.2 trillion dollar HC reform bill? That's about $4000 per man, woman and child in the US. Current individual HC insurance policies are about $4800/yr. which is equal to about $226billion to buy every one of the false number of 47 mil uninsured Americans a health insurance policy.
Government is the problem, not the solution.
hoads| 3.3.10 @ 11:35AM
Oops, the 1.2 trillion is over a 10 year timeline so the 226B would be an annual expense which would surpass 1.2 trillion. Nevertheless, the fact still stands that government, by default, is inefficient and wasteful and its ever increasing entrenchment in healthcare is why we have rising medical inflation. We need less government in healthcare --no more.
martin j smith| 3.3.10 @ 11:48AM
I like to get to the bottom line fast, because there is little time. So this boils down to: If the Dems do so called reconciliation what will the Republican Party do in response. what steps will they take ? How will voters react. ? I sense that several posters take this very seriously as I do, but what about the vast large numbers who do not post but who are polled and say they are opposed. How to channel their grievances. One tiny step, would be to call another BIG Tea Party Rally AGAINST this bill but even better pe3rhaps it should be done sooner than that ?
Northern Rebel| 3.3.10 @ 11:53AM
You know something is dangerous, when liberals are willing to give up their seats to ram this klusterf#*ck through congress.
There is an old expression:
"It is better to ask forgiveness, than permission."
They are gambling that we will forget, like we've already done too many times. It is our fault that they treat us with didain, because we let them get away with so much crap in the past.
Ole Texican is right when he says this garbage will eat up more than half of the budget down the road. It will also control 100% of our lives. Everything we do, will be measured as a health issue.
They already tell us what kind of toilets and lightbulbs we can use.
Soon our daily activities will be monitered, in case they are "unhealthy", or "not in the best interests of the people."
"put down that fork! No more red meat for you! Besides, cow flatulance is causing global warming, don't you know?"
In case we put up too much of a fuss, they are laying the foundation for putting down our future insurrections.
We have liberals and racists accusing us of wanting to assassinate the "President" because he is black. They are trying to paint the tea parties as a right wing militia, and the state controlled media, is driving it home every night.
It is they (the liberals) who would benefit most from B.H.O.'s martyrdom, and It wouldn't suprise me if some wacko lefties aren't discussing it, as I write this.
Conservatives want him healthy as a hog, so he will be around forever, in order to point to his abject failures, ala Jimma Carter.
So, Secret Service folks, be on guard. Keep an eye on "President" Anti-Christ's "friends"!
Ken (Old Texican)| 3.3.10 @ 12:31PM
Northern Rebel,
You got a home here in Texas any time you want to claim it!
On the other hand...give me a "neutral address" and I will send you a Texas flag to put on your lawn. (smile)
Jot this down somewhere: kbjudgeroybean06@gmail.com
You told us what State you are from, but I forgot. Look forward to hearing from you.
Franklin| 3.3.10 @ 1:21PM
I have emailed and called my two Dem senators (Klobuchar and Franken) weekly. Only received form letters and email from them stating why they will vote for Obamacare.
Emailed my one Republican Representative, Erik Paulsen, and received one form email and 3 phone calls from his office and 1 from him.
I'll keep trying the Dems, but not holding my breath.
johnba| 3.3.10 @ 1:33PM
This bill is not about solving the "healthcare crisis" (assuming there is a crisis). This is about getting something, anything in place which further socializes the country. Since the system envisioned by the bill is fraught with all kinds of problems, it will open the door for the socialists to come back and argue that the first attempt just didn't go far enough. It's just a wedge. That's why their desperate to get something. Anything! Pelosi doesn't care if some of her members lose this fall - lose the battles, win the war. Just get something on the books that we can then come back and build upon. Tom Harkin made that clear. That's why this has to be defeated!!!
Copyleft| 3.3.10 @ 4:14PM
Incorrect, John. If this bill were truly "socialist" it would create a national healthcare plan, which this does not. At minimum, it would at least include a public-option; it does not.
This bill is simply another bailout, this time for the health-insurance lobby. Nothing "socialist" about it, unless you mean the commonplace socialize-the-risk and privatize-the-profit agenda we see so often in Congress.
johnba| 3.3.10 @ 5:22PM
Copyleft,
You miss the point. This is the camel's nose under the tent. Once all the problems emerge which this bill creates, such as the "bailout" to the insurance companies you suggest, then the socialist can come back and argue that only a "national healthcare plan" can solve the problem. I'm no defender of insurance companies. I'm a defender of the free market and individual freedom to choose.
Ryan| 3.4.10 @ 8:26AM
Hey Copyleft,
You never responded. What does "well-regulated" mean in the second amendment?
Copyleft| 3.4.10 @ 8:29AM
It means whatever the Supreme Court says it means, Ryan. Why?
Don L| 3.3.10 @ 1:40PM
I would disagree. The Democrats fully understand what the republicans are talking about -they have an agenda to take permanent control of America and destroy the capitalism that has made it great. They fully intend to control everyone's life and to not realize it and still be naive enough to think it's about their ignorance is to play into their hands and think the Trojan Horse was about a nice gift!
Drew| 3.3.10 @ 1:55PM
You'd think a Harvard-trained lawyer would know better than to write up such a risible - and easily disproved - bunch of nonsense. But then considering his audience (easily gulled cretins) maybe not.
Conservatives have been crying about "socialized medicine" since the 1960s. And just as Medicare hasn't resulted in either genocide or the opening of too many gulags, you'd think people would have gotten wise to the utter falseness of this claim. But there you go again (to quote your former boss..)
Quote: 100 new health care bureaucracies, boards, commissions and programs. Gosh, there's a bogeyman for you. Question: How many insurance company, hospital, or employee benefit plan "boards, commissions, and programs" do you think there are in the US healthcare system right now? And don't tell me an insurance adjuster won't - and don't already, everyday -figure out a way to cut costs by denying benefits. The only difference is that a Government agency that did that sort of thing would at least be answerable to the American people. Insurance companies are answerable on to their stockholders.
Secondly, the author obviously hasn't read the current or proposed healthcare legislation. That "$500 billion in Medicare cuts" comes from a restructuring of Medicare Advantage - which subsidizes health insurance companies - and does not affect 1 cent of patient services.
Then the author goes on to flat out lie about the cost of healthcare reform. Instead of looking at the Congressional Budget Office numbers - which project an approximate $300 billion reduction in the deficit - he (for reasons best known to himself) relies instead on Congressman Paul Ryan - whose credibility on healthcare reform is, to say the least, somewhat suspect. (Ryan's plan for handling Medicare is to give seniors "vouchers" that eventually will become virtually worthless. "Keep your hands of my Medicare" - indeed.)
The fact of the matter is there are presently more than 30 million Americans who have no health insurance coverage whatsoever. Roughly 30 thousand Americans die each year because of this. Given the realities of skyrocketing insurance and healthcare costs both of these numbers are likely to dramatically increase in the next few years. Healthcare costs are making it extremely difficult for American businesses to remain competitive.
The Republican response to this crisis is to do what they've done for the past forty years: Precisely nothing. The pathetic bleating about the evils of reconciliation sound particularly hollow, coming from the same people who used exatcly the same manuever to "ram through" the Bush-era tax cuts that have added a trillion or so to our deficits, while failing to yield the bonanza of private employment they promised.
Fool the American people once, Republicans - Shame on you. Fool us twice? I don't think so.
DNC Talking Points DREW| 3.3.10 @ 4:14PM
Save your DNC/Obama talking points for your Coffee Party, otherwise known as another day at Starbucks.
Your "points" you have listed have long been debunked. I'm sorry the Obama administration has reduced you to drivel. But it looks good on ya. You betcha!
Copyleft| 3.3.10 @ 4:16PM
The facts Drew presents have been "debunked," eh? And yet, you don't present any evidence or countering facts; you simply assert it.
By all means, please present your alleged evidence.
Gloria O'Brien| 3.3.10 @ 4:23PM
When the argument is filled with little or nothing more than extremes and pot shots, you know they have no argument to offer. Drew's post speaks for itself.
DNC Talking Points DREW| 3.3.10 @ 4:56PM
Gloria---so aptly misnamed.
Gloria O'Brien| 3.4.10 @ 12:25AM
You've proved my point.
DNC Talking Points DREW| 3.3.10 @ 4:53PM
Obambi's Healthcare "reform" has nothing to do with health care or insurance.
It has to do with taking over 1/6th of our economy. It's about control and nothing else. Obam's Freudian slip---Bolshevik Plot---indeed.
This bill STILL leaves millions people uninsured, and gives the 258B losing Post Office something to do.
Here's an idea: Why doesn't every Obama/Democrat voter (like you) pay an additional 15% in taxes to the Fed to enroll in Democrat inspired programs and leave the free market. If you make over 200k (married 250k--in honor of Obama)--pay an additional 30%. Sign on to whatever platform you "believe" in----Cap and Tax? ---Pay more for gas--how about that $7 per gallon idea? You pay $7 per gallon and let us know how you like it.
Healthcare? You first palsy----let us know how you like that Union ex-Postal worker going to lunch before she gets to your number.
SS?
We'll hear about you at the Federal Social Security Retirement House known as the County Morgue.
In other words---put YOUR money where your mouth is.
Us? We'll stay with the free market approach and I get to call my Doctor and see him a few hours later. I'll keep my car and invest with my investment choices. BTW---pick up the tab for Welfare while you're at it. We've been sucked out of 40 Trillion dollars and there are still people with only one Cadillac and three big screen TV"s buying fillet Mignon and Crunk (oh the horror). We'll continue our charitable causes and helping through churches and organizations not affiliated with Obama's Brown Shirts,
AL Gwhore supporter? Give up your car, heat, AC, bus, plane travel------let us know how that goes.
Lastly-----"Roughly"---you don't know? Liberals are so smart----and you don't know exactly? I thought Jackasses were so bright? 30,000 people die per year? I thought it was 45,000 per year (because of no insurance)---oh that was a lie? I thought it was 45 million had no insurance? Now it's 30 million? Unemployment goes up----insured goes down. That Liberal math---it's just like Magic!
And this Obama Bill won't go into effect for ----4 or 5 years?
You mean to tell me----you are going to let 120,000-150,000 people die with no health insurance when Republicans plans put steps immediately into place?
Why how could you allow such a thing?
I thought you were compassionate and all that?
No---you're just a bunch of DNC hacks.
As they say in my country---Phuq oph.
coal carrier| 3.3.10 @ 8:23PM
Well, Copyleft. What is your reply? Do you have anything to add to the debate?
Copyleft| 3.4.10 @ 8:31AM
Yes, I'm waiting for someone to counter Drew's points. So far, no one has. And no one has presented any evidence to rebut his claims, either.
I wonder why?
Drew| 3.3.10 @ 5:06PM
Are you really that stupid? Or are you just wilfully delusional?
Death Panels (which is what Ferrara starts out with) according to (non-partisan) Politifact:
http://www.politifact.com/trut.....th-panels/
Republican's lies about "socialized medicine"? Hard to know where to start - but start out with Ferrara's boss lying to Americans as far back as 1961:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fRdLpem-AAs
Healthcare reform's impact on the budget:
cbo.gov/doc.cfm?index=10868
If you people think you're fooling anyone other than yourselves, you are going to be sadly mistaken.
I dare you morons to actually cite ONE non-partisan authority that actually backs up ONE of Ferrar's ridiculous lies.
DNC Talking Points DREW| 3.3.10 @ 5:48PM
OFA (or as I like to call it OOFA) pays you too much.
If you actually read Ryan's'----no scratch that----your own plan----you'd find another job.
We know what's in the Bill. We know the facts. We know what this takeover of the economy is---Market to Command.
NOTHING you say will make one difference other than to feed you feeble ego and mental midget intelligence.
Name calling--blah blah (hat tip missnamed Gloria).
You Libtard OOFA's come here---insult the writer's on American Spectator (I think Gloria called it name-calling?)---on a Conservative site---and expect some kind of acceptance? Applause? A Latte?
Keep going if you'd like. It is a monumental waste of time. Don't believe me?
Come back in a year.
Copyleft| 3.4.10 @ 11:18AM
And yet again, you don't try to argue the facts... I wonder why that is?
Houston Rao| 3.3.10 @ 4:26PM
Medicare has not resulted in genocide or gulags.... just about $60 trillion of liabilities on the coming generations. That is only $550,000 per household.
Government agencies have been running public education for decades. How many of them have been made to answer for the state of education in the country today? Look up New York's rubber rooms.
And if you believe that Paul Ryan was misstating costs, you gotta be smoking something. Even Ryan was not doubting the CBO score on the bill correctly, he was pointing out the dishonesty in how the legislation was written to get to that score. Heck, if they could have written the bill to have 10 years of taxes and 1 month of spending, CBO would have followed the language as written and scored the bill to be a trillion surplus.
Ralph Novy| 3.3.10 @ 4:26PM
Bingo.
Right on the mark.
Kudos.
[Note: My original post was "Bingo. Kudos." But the American Spectator "grammarbot" flagged it as not being "English" and asked me to repost. So I inserted "Right on the mark." lol]
Gloria O'Brien| 3.3.10 @ 4:06PM
If the goal is universal or near universal coverage, the free market alone will not do it. Many Republicans don't to strive for universal coverage or what it takes to achieve it but, frankly, Republicans are not in control and more people voted for Democrats knowing the general health care proposal. Like it or not, this tells us that many people DO want this kind of health care reform. Many Republicans may not like it but, sorry, this is a country of differing opinion, not just Republican opinion.
Houston Rao| 3.3.10 @ 4:31PM
Massachusetts has had single payer universal coverage for years now. Yet they have not been able to achieve universal coverage. This year, they started making sections of tax paying legal residents ineligible for their program to 'control' their costs.
You are entitled to your own opinion but not entitled to have others to pay for it.
John II| 3.3.10 @ 4:49PM
"[M]any people DO want this kind of health care reform." Right. And approximately twice as many DON'T want it, and the number of those who think they DO continues to drop. Do you draw any conclusions at all from that? Or, Animal Farm style, do some people count more than others?
In short, do you know what the hell you're talking about, Gloria? And do you care?
Ralph Novy| 3.3.10 @ 5:28PM
John II:
Approximately twice as many people don't like the Senate bill (and how it was "achieved") as do.
THAT I'd grant you as a fact or legitimate poll-derived statistic.
But that includes both people who don't want much if any reform and those who want far more aggressive, efficient reform. It's a conflated, misleading fact/statistic, I submit.
John II| 3.3.10 @ 6:46PM
It also includes people who want real and substantial reform, gradually shaped to address specific problems, and are appropriately incensed by the cheap, secretive tactics of the Democrats, and the absence of any serious public debate.
The "summit" was a rigged carnival, and the number of those in favor of either version of the monstrosity continues to drop, whatever their motives or the degrees of their individual hostility.
Pelosi's not-so-veiled allusion to the need for a kamikaze ethos among her fellow Dems whose political careers are not as secure as her own (coming from San Francisco, the bigger a jackass she is the safer her position) might perhaps be taken as a signal to those who have ears to hear and eyes to see: a huge majority of Americans DON'T WANT a state-controlled medical system.
Ralph Novy| 3.3.10 @ 5:22PM
Hear, hear.
johnba| 3.3.10 @ 5:29PM
Gloria,
See Rep. Ryan's proposal.
George F| 3.3.10 @ 5:43PM
In order to want the healthcare proposal you have to ignore the fact that government alway makes a task more expensive, wasteful and complicated.
You also have to ignore the fact that your healthcare will be rationed and When you become a senior you will be cut off from care. As the president has said, Seniors will be given pain medication and told to prepare to die.
If this is your idea of a great healthcare program then your standards are awfully low.
Poor you.
Copyleft| 3.4.10 @ 8:33AM
Our healthcare is already rationed--if you can't afford it, you don't get it. And our current system is almost twice as expensive as a well-run national healthcare program would be, while providing less effective service and covering a smaller percentage of society.
If this is YOUR idea of a great healthcare program, your standards are far too low.
Poor you.
John II| 3.4.10 @ 9:48AM
Your belligerent ignorance and smugness are showing yet again, Cop. Good of you to provide the rest of us with a steady model of what the Obamanation is all about. Thank you for sharing.
Copyleft| 3.4.10 @ 9:59AM
I have FACTS to go along with my smugness, John; where are yours?
Oregon Rules!| 3.4.10 @ 9:42PM
"As the president has said, Seniors will be given pain medication and told to prepare to die. "
source?
Ralph Novy| 3.3.10 @ 4:21PM
Gad, Peter, stop being so afraid and get a life that's worth preserving.
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bobsledd| 3.3.10 @ 8:17PM
The Post Office is a fiscal wreck...
They are proposing to stop saturday service to "save" money..
When these fools take over, and run the best Health Care system in the world in to the ground, will Hospitals have to close Saturdays and Sundays as well to control costs???
We need to protect/preserve our Liberty and resist this governmental attack on our freedom and liberty.
How did a Federation of 13 States that created a Constitutional Government with LIMITED powers to serve the states, become a monstrosity that runs rampant over that sacred Constitution and has come to CONTROL our states??
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Ben Dover| 3.3.10 @ 10:05PM
In Texas, to control costs for workers' compensation, the legislature enacted law that all medical treatment must be considered under the standard of "evidence based medicine" and the legislature redefined EBM as treatment based on peer reviewed medical literature. (Think global warming peer reviewed literature). In doing so, they adopted the Official Disability Guides as the "gold standard" for evidence based medicine. What does this all mean? Well, if the medical treatment that your doctor wants to give you is not in the ODG, the insurance company can and will deny your treatment. You can appeal, but if the treatment is not recommended by the ODG, you aren't going to get it. This is how BHO and his ilk are going to control healthcare. They will find a restrictive medical guide and use that to control what care you will get. If it's not in the guide, you won't get it, whether your doctor recommends it or not.
DanMingo| 3.4.10 @ 4:50PM
How does this differ from how insurance companies currently operate?
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Healthcare for Social Justice! Socialist delusion for America, invest your freedom!
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HK Johnny| 3.4.10 @ 1:45AM
I'm a US citizen, non-resident in the US, but living in a first-world country.
I do not receive employer-provided medical insurance for either myself or my family. I pay for my own individual medical insurance, and my family's, with after-tax dollars, which provides us with private hospital care of a high standard.
My insurance does not cover any outpatient costs whatsoever and has an initial deductible of US$3,000, after which each of us is covered up to US$1 million.
As a result, we watch the outpatient costs carefully, ask the doctor "how much?" as well as "why?" whenever a test is ordered, and often say at the point of payment, "Gee, nurse, that seems like a lot of money!"
Now, what the hell is wrong with that?
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Tom Hartman fan...| 3.4.10 @ 5:22PM
I sure had a hard time reading this after listening to Peter's whining little voice on the radio. Have to shout and scream much to make your point? He sounded like an uncontrollable little brat, you know--we all have friends that kick and scream so much that you just walk away and give up talking to them. Great job sir! You have a great resume and education for sure, too bad you come across as the annoying guy at the bar that we all throw popcorn at.
OregonRules!| 3.4.10 @ 9:12PM
Currently, for-profit Wall Street insurance companies are deciding how much health care should cost.
That's why an aspirin costs $75, that's why a broken finger costs $8000, that's why a heart attack costs $500,000.
THAT'S why people are being denied health care - because for-profit Wall Street insurance companies want more profits.
You're so afraid that "the evil government" might put "regulations" and "controls" on runaway Wall Street greed.
Didn't you learn anything from the 2008 Wall Street meltdown?
These are greedy for-profit Wall Street insurance company sons of b*tches - greedy like f-ing oil men.
If they had a choice between maikng $40M or making $39.9M and letting a thousand people die,
well, they owe it to their share holders to MAXIMIZE PROFITS so f*ck those 1,000 people.
That's really what this health care debate is about.
SHOULD THE FOR-PROFIT WALL STREET INSURANCE COMPANIES BE ALLOWED
TO ENDLESSLY GOUGE YOU WITH WHATEVER PRICES THEY WANT TO CHARGE?
The GOP says YES and Obama and 280M Americans say NO.
Since congress is on the take, the majority is being told to f*ck off.
Do you think this racist understands that "the evil government" educates everyone in America who's not in a private school?
Unless he's Catholic, odds are the "evil government" is responsible for his ability to think, reason and learn.
The "evil government" runs our military, our interstate highways, the water we drink, our electricity, our natural gas, etc etc
and overall, they do a great job but we'd rather die than let them regulate for-profit Wall Street insurance companies?
He thinks if the government is involved, at all, then we're all going to hell and that's just not true.
Every time some @55hole rails against "the evil government" he's actually cheering for Wall Street insurance companies
to make more money than the sons of b*tches are already making, which is millions and millions of dollars every year.
If we had a health care system that was entirely market-based, the bastards who are gouging us now
would be just like the people who sell water for $50 a gallon after a hurricane.
If the government stayed out of it, it would be legal for a hospital to tell a bleeding patient in the ER,
"Sign over your house and car to me right now or we're going to let you die where you lay.
You're also going to sign a document that gives us 2/3 of your income the rest of your life."
That would be LEGAL if the government was powerless to intervene.
The GOP loves that.
George | 3.4.10 @ 9:19PM
Well Drew and Copyleft, you are so smart. Yes, there are no gulags due to Medicare, but there are unfunded liabilities in the trillions. I noticed you did not respond to that. And one wasn't required to be on Medicare. Drew, you cite from the article: 100 new health care bureaucracies, boards, commissions, and programs. And you say insurance cuts cost now by denying benefits. Should government do that, it will be answerable to the people. Insurance companies are answerable to their stockholders. The insurance companies do not answer to anyone? That is an erroneous statement. Insurance companies are regulated by state governments. Should you have a dispute, filing a complaint with the appropriate agency is an option. Or, one can sue in court, be it federal or state, depending on the circumstances. When 'reform' goes through, where will one go if an injury occurs due government action, or inaction. One can go to an outside entity when dealing with the insurance companies. Who is going to police the government? The government, because it is answerable to the people? Let me cite an example, please bear with me, it might be too complex for you to follow. Remember the Saving & Loan disaster in the 1980s. The government negotiated deals where healthy thrifts took over failed thrifts. The debt from the failed thrifts was allowed to be amortized over a twenty year period. However, Congress changed the rules when they passed FIRREA. The twenty year time period was reduced to less than five years, if that. The thrifts sued, and in the Winstar decision, 518 U.S. 839, the Supreme Court in part ruled there was a contract between the thrifts and the government with the government breaching the contract. The case was remanded to determine damages and sizable damages were awarded to the Thrifts. The government appealed and the appellate court revised the awards downward, substantially. Bottom line: the government on a whim changed the rules and those doing business suffered injuries. And the government got away with it. You think the government will not deny claims as you allege the insurance companies do? You are in for one rude awakening. You versus the government. I take it you have unlimited resources. Hey, such denials of government health care willl never happen, right.
The rest of your screed is nothing more than rehashed talking points, many were used in 1990s Clinton attempt to nationalize health care. Your buddy, Copyleft, says your facts are not countered and everyone else is making assertions. You are the one making assertions. The statement you made saying government is responsive to the people is utterly false. Our leaders intention to ram this particular bill down our collective throats despite the population's objections illustrates you and your ilk are the true liars. Your way or the highway. What are you going to force on the US next? Oh, and Copyleft, for all you facts, could you name where a well managed government program exists in the world?
Oregon Rules!| 3.4.10 @ 9:28PM
Seems to me, if we had reformed healthcare back when Clinton waqnted to do it, when it was 1/7th of the economy, we'd be in a much better position today. Now, it's 1/5th, and the canard is "Why change the greatest healthcare on earth?" Except that it's not. It's on it's way to being dang near third rate, for those of us "regular folk". 8 lobbiest for each congress person...who do you trust to do the right thing, a for profit Wall Street Corporation who awards it's lackeys with bonuses for denying care (maximizing profits) or the government, who is accountable to us? If you can't trust the government, maybe it's time to vote some people in we CAN trust. Can't do that at a corporation, now can you? And yeah, I can name some that are functioning better than ours based on results such as infant mortatlity, maternal mortality, and life span. Need I list them all, or can you use that Googly thing?
Ron W. | 3.5.10 @ 1:12PM
Exactly right on every point.
George | 3.6.10 @ 9:33AM
We would be better if Clinton care was made law? The reason why it was rejected because people did not want what Clinton was selling. It was bad then and it is bad now. Not the best health care in the world? Why? Because we are not #1 in infant mortality, maternal mortality, and life expectancy? I looked at that list and the countries ahead of us are significantly structurally different from the U.S. Those nations do not have many of the social problems the U.S. must face. The U.K. may do better on infant mortality rates than the U.S., but use that Googly thing and research what happens to people in the British system as they age. Even Zeke Emanual said in a 1997 Atlantic Monthly discussing assisted suicide, "Netherlands emerging diversity pales in comparison to the U.S. Canada is higher on that list, consequently you would say their system is better. Then why do Canadian politicians abandon their 'superior' system and come to our 'third-rate system' for treatment. Many ordinary Canadians come here in the, according to you, 3rd rate U.S. system. A national health care program will change those numbers, you claim. By your rationale, the Russians should by the healthiest people on the planet. They have had universal health care since the 1920s. Their life expectancy has dropped significantly since the 1970s.
And you fail to mention that Oregon's attempt to reform health care ended in disaster. The Oregon state government plan rationed care, i.e. denied care to patients. If government does that, you seem to be OK with that. After all, they are responsible to the people. Your unemployment rate is higher than the national average. Gee, wasn't health care reform supposed to make the economy more competitive, as stated in earlier postings. And Tennessee's attempted health care reform had a similar result.
Vote in some people we can trust. I have some news for you, even that will not change the administrative state, i.e. bureaucracy, who will administer the program. The bureaucracy may receive new orders, but they have wide ranging discretion in how they operate. And changing their operating procedures is very difficult. They are all very turf conscious and guard their turf zealously.
Why the hate for corporations? Do you hate limited liability companies too? For all of corporate Americas faults, a corportation CANNOT: issue rules telling you how to live; impose fines for not obeying; Confiscate your property for not obeying; Imprison you for not obeying. Government, however, does have those powers. And the corporations know it, hence they are buying politicians. And lobbyists help write the current health care bill that you place such faith and expectations for perfection. Is that OK?
In regard to what you said to Ron, what reconciliation puts in, it can be used to remove. Reconciliation was originally meant for budgetary matters, not a massive restructuring. Republican statements ring hollow? What did Democrats say about such measures in the mid-2000s. Democrats whined big time saying it was an abuse of power. When the tables are turned, the Democrats know they can count on drones like you to protest such actions and forget what Democrats said earlier and forget using such methods when it served their purposes.
George | 3.6.10 @ 9:33AM
We would be better if Clinton care was made law? The reason why it was rejected because people did not want what Clinton was selling. It was bad then and it is bad now. Not the best health care in the world? Why? Because we are not #1 in infant mortality, maternal mortality, and life expectancy? I looked at that list and the countries ahead of us are significantly structurally different from the U.S. Those nations do not have many of the social problems the U.S. must face. The U.K. may do better on infant mortality rates than the U.S., but use that Googly thing and research what happens to people in the British system as they age. Even Zeke Emanual said in a 1997 Atlantic Monthly discussing assisted suicide, "Netherlands emerging diversity pales in comparison to the U.S. Canada is higher on that list, consequently you would say their system is better. Then why do Canadian politicians abandon their 'superior' system and come to our 'third-rate system' for treatment. Many ordinary Canadians come here in the, according to you, 3rd rate U.S. system. A national health care program will change those numbers, you claim. By your rationale, the Russians should by the healthiest people on the planet. They have had universal health care since the 1920s. Their life expectancy has dropped significantly since the 1970s.
And you fail to mention that Oregon's attempt to reform health care ended in disaster. The Oregon state government plan rationed care, i.e. denied care to patients. If government does that, you seem to be OK with that. After all, they are responsible to the people. Your unemployment rate is higher than the national average. Gee, wasn't health care reform supposed to make the economy more competitive, as stated in earlier postings. And Tennessee's attempted health care reform had a similar result.
Vote in some people we can trust. I have some news for you, even that will not change the administrative state, i.e. bureaucracy, who will administer the program. The bureaucracy may receive new orders, but they have wide ranging discretion in how they operate. And changing their operating procedures is very difficult. They are all very turf conscious and guard their turf zealously.
Why the hate for corporations? Do you hate limited liability companies too? For all of corporate Americas faults, a corportation CANNOT: issue rules telling you how to live; impose fines for not obeying; Confiscate your property for not obeying; Imprison you for not obeying. Government, however, does have those powers. And the corporations know it, hence they are buying politicians. And lobbyists help write the current health care bill that you place such faith and expectations for perfection. Is that OK?
In regard to what you said to Ron, what reconciliation puts in, it can be used to remove. Reconciliation was originally meant for budgetary matters, not a massive restructuring. Republican statements ring hollow? What did Democrats say about such measures in the mid-2000s. Democrats whined big time saying it was an abuse of power. When the tables are turned, the Democrats know they can count on drones like you to protest such actions and forget what Democrats said earlier and forget using such methods when it served their purposes.
Oregon Rules!| 3.6.10 @ 12:05PM
Why the insistence in the altruism of the market or the corporation? Your points about Canada and people coming here have already gone down in flames, but let me light the trash pile up as well - THEY CAN AFFORD TO. I.E. they are rich people who can afford our greatest health care. I'm guessing YOU can as well, which is why you are defending it so stridently if the face of repeated criminal corporation actions that lead to the death of millions of americans yearly.
your information on Oregon denying care is flat wrong. See here: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC81116/
in short: "In particular, there is little evidence that the OHP has operated as a model of explicit rationing. In reality, Oregon has not rationed services, nor has its policy of cutting public coverage for services produced substantial savings. These findings have important implications regarding the desirability and feasibility of adopting a policy of removing items from the list of insured medicare services in Canada. Oregon's experience suggests that drawing the line on medicare coverage would be more difficult and less financially rewarding than advocates claim."
They are NOT denying people, but rationing doesn't save much money. Nice try though.
They don't tell us how to live? From your responses, I can tell your an avid fan of TV. Those annoying ads that interrupt your Falafel Boy "news" show? Those are called ad's. I'll stop here and let that sink in...
They can't confiscate your property for not obeying? Did you really say that? Disobeying or not, corporations can MOST CERTAINLY and HAVE REPEATEDLY taken personal property. Please, argue against this one...
Again, I ask, why the blind belief in the altruism of a for-profit model? Human nature demands and history declares that greed rules - you die for profit. Whose being misled by the rich and powerful...
oops| 3.6.10 @ 12:07PM
that should be "Who is" not Whose
George | 3.9.10 @ 9:08PM
Hey Oregon:
Ads are orders from corporations on how to live?
Corporations can seize property for not obeying but government cannot?
Rationing is not limiting access?
Canadians are all rich?
Government is altruistic and superior?
Millions in America die yearly from corporate action? If you truly believe these things, the Oregon taxpayers deserve refunds for the money taken from them to pay for your public school education.
And then there's this:| 3.6.10 @ 12:55PM
http://www.bartcop.com/chart-o.....ending.gif
Ron W.| 3.5.10 @ 1:14PM
Are you really as stupid as you sound? You can't be can you? Did you get your momie to write this for you?
Oregon Rules!| 3.6.10 @ 11:51AM
No, she's too busy teaching ignoramuses, like yourself, respect to be bothered. See, it's scared bunnies like you that are keeping this country down. EVIL GOVERNMENT isn't gonna take anything away from YOU. It will compete against corporations, forcing them to quit gouging us for money. Why do you insist on the altruism of corporations in the face of the latest wall street disaster? Are you paying attention?
Oregon Rules!| 3.4.10 @ 9:34PM
And about this reconciliation canard - seems it was ok to pass a $1.5 trillion dollar tax break give away to the rich when the repubs used reconciliation, but now it's an evil bad process that shouldn't be used for something so important - smells like double standard bull to me...
Ron W.| 3.5.10 @ 1:10PM
You left wing nut cases need to get your heads out of your asses and wise up. You are being mislead by the rich and powerful that are just worried about losing money. You are a pack of losers and nutcases.
Oregon Rules!| 3.6.10 @ 11:38AM
Who's being misled by the rich and powerful? YOU are the one that wants to protect their income stream, fool! See well through that belly button?
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