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The Environmental Spectator
Tilting at Windmills
The dubious turbine industry.
You know the saying: Ignorance is bliss. Unfortunately for the American taxpayer, when it comes to the wind turbine industry, ignorance is not as blissful as it is infuriating. According to a new report by the Investigative Reporting Workshop (in coordination with ABC’s World News with Diane Sawyer and the Watchdog Institute), Obama can now add wind turbines to his growing list of failures within the stimulus package.
Renewable energy industry is growing; wind turbines are a key avenue of that growth. Obama has said he would like to be a leader in clean energy but that the United States is struggling to make this goal a reality. He’s right, but that’s only half the story. The Workshop reports that $2.1 billion in stimulus grants have been given to wind, solar and geothermal companies to make good on Obama’s objective but almost 80% of those went to foreign companies. A bankrupt Australian company nabbed the largest grant so far-$178 million. With that, Babcock & Brown built “a Texas wind farm using turbines made by a Japanese company.”
Even Senator Charles Schumer (D-NY), hardly a foe of Obama’s stimulus package, was disappointed with the news that foreign companies were receiving-4 to 1-stimulus funds and jobs on renewable energy-related projects. In an interview with ABC News he said: “Very few jobs here, lots of jobs in China. That is not what I intended or any other legislator who voted for the stimulus intended…It is fine that the Chinese make them. But why don’t we use the stimulus money to start building up an industry to build them here, that was the very point of the stimulus.”
Of the 80% of stimulus grants going to wind facilities, the majority of those are turbines which prevail in popularity both with renewable energy advocates, professional and laymen alike. If the 4 to 1 ratio is frightening, never fear: According to StimulusWatch.org, several organizations around the country are receiving your tax dollars-I mean stimulus money-to fund large-scale wind turbine projects. The National Science Foundation is receiving $435,231 in grant money to work on a wind turbine project in Buford, Wyoming. Likewise, the Department of Energy received nearly $25 million to “design, construct, and ultimately have responsibility for the operation of the Large Wind Turbine Blade Test Facility” through the Massachusetts Clean Energy Center. According to the report, no jobs are being created through those projects.
While the stimulus funds for energy projects are creating little to no jobs in the United States, they number they produce overseas is maddening. Allow the numbers to illuminate: The Renewable Energy Policy Project did a study and estimated that for every 1 megawatt of wind energy that is developed, 4.3 jobs are created. There were about 1,219 turbines built by foreign-owned manufacturers which equates to 2,279.5 megawatts. If you crunch the Renewable Energy Policy Project’s numbers, the installation of these turbines may have created as many as 6,838 manufacturing jobs — anywhere but here.
Such news may cause taxpayers to pause and evaluate the cost-benefit ratio of the turbines. Estimates vary but some sources say it can cost $300,000 to transport the turbines and a 2007 estimate by Windustry reported that a commercial scale wind turbine cost $3.5 million installed.
If one wind turbine produces 1.8 megawatts of energy — enough energy for 500 households per year — and each household spends on average $2,150 on their energy bill per year, the turbine saves $1.75 million per year in energy. At a cost of $3.5 million installed, a wind turbine will have earned its proverbial keep in two years.
While the math works out, the economics still don’t. Turbines are only entirely beneficial if American taxpayer dollars were given to companies here to give to American workers here to construct them and if they worked like a charm once they were built. Unfortunately, therein, as the Bard would say, lies the rub.
In Minnesota, for example, a state which spent $3.3 million on eleven wind turbines, but which regularly experiences cold, winter weather, discovered this year their turbines freeze up when it’s freezing. Apparently the hydraulic fluid which propels the turbines was supposed to work in colder temperature but failed to. There’s a plan in progress to heat the fluid but as Minnesota native Ed Morrissey of Hot Air reported: “That will drastically reduce the net energy gain from each turbine, depending on how much heating the turbine fluid needs to stop congealing in the winter. Since cold weather here lasts anywhere from 4-6 months, that makes it mighty inefficient as an energy resource.”
Blame could rest on the shoulder of the state on one side, the manufacturer on the other, and obviously this is an isolated incident. But if each American family only saves a few dollars every month after the wind turbines run efficiently and after they pay for themselves but their tax dollars were sent overseas for others to build them in the first place, is there a true cost benefit besides the warm, fuzzy feeling that we’re all utilizing clean energy? Like his stimulus package, Obama’s ideas work only if the theory is put into practice.
About the Author
Nicole Russell writes from Northern Virginia.
Letter to the Editor View all comments (126) | Leave a comment
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Bill Hussein O'Stalin| 3.1.10 @ 6:43AM
When ideologues like Obama and his minions conceptualize something, it isn't important how it's done or who or what is damaged in the offing. It's their vision that blinds them.
Bill Hussein O'Stalin| 3.1.10 @ 6:43AM
When ideologues like Obama and his minions conceptualize something, it isn't important how it's done or who or what is damaged in the offing. It's their vision that blinds them.
Pingback| 3.1.10 @ 7:57AM
Tilting at Windmills - HuntingNet.com Forums links to this page. Here’s an excerpt:
JimH| 3.1.10 @ 8:02AM
Is it just me or are these modern windmills (Ronco Bird-o-Matics) incredibly ugly blights on the landscape. Where economicaly viable in a free market I guess they could be placed out of sight offshore. In the sthort term we need to be building new nuclear plants. In the long term we should be developing our space based solar capacity.
Sam| 3.1.10 @ 2:20PM
Up until now, we've focused on legitimate concerns with regards to wind power. Than JimH comes along and whines about how his precious view will be obstructed by windmills. What do you do about power lines, JimH? Of course, it's perfectly okay for you to complain about the turbines outside your window, but then demand oil drilling in the ocean near where I live since it's not in YOUR backyard!
brutus6| 3.1.10 @ 4:46PM
Lotsa misinformation here about wind turbine generators (WTG), altho some beefs are legit.
Some corrections, in random order:
MN wtg's freezing up is indeed an isolated case. Those were low output, 20-year-old 'refurbished' turbines originally installed near Palm Sprgs, CA. The MN municipality who bought them were penny-wise and pound-foolish. Thousands of wtg's are operating just fine in the wicked cold winters of MN, ND, SD, IA, etc., because they are fitted with 'cold weather packages' by the manufacturer.
Nicole is right about 4 to 1 ratio stimulus funds, and manufacturing jobs going overseas, but... GE is the only (commercial grade) wtg manufacturer in the US, and the demand for wtg's here is far greater than what GE can supply, so windfarmers have no choice but to source overseas. Build new wtg manufacturing plants here? Why commit the huge capital outlay today when libs in DC might screw you over with new tax/enviro/etc. laws 6 months from now? And besides, windfarm construction in the US (and hence demand for wtg's) notoriously occurs in fits and spurts due to the on-again/off-again nature of tax incentives passed by Congress.
Nicole is right again on installed cost for the typical wtg, in large windfarms with economies of scale. But the wtg's produce much better than the 20% of installed capacity steve says. It's called Net Capacity Factor (NCF), and it generally runs from 30% to 40% for new windfarms from the TX plains up to MN and the Dakotas. I've seen some farms with 41-43% NCF. Trans and interconnect costs are not hidden. Interconnect costs are included in the installed cost of the windfarm as a line item in the budget. Transmission costs are imputed into the price paid/kw by the utility who buys the windfarm's power. Most of the crappy 20% NCF farms were built in the 80's in CA, thanks to state mandates and incentives there. Payouts for new windfarms generally run about 6-7 years, with the federal Production Tax Credits (PTC) of 1.7 cents/kw.
Cars kill more birds than wtg's. Environmental Impact Studies (EIS) are required in most states before permits are issued, and often require followup monitoring after the windfarm is up and running. Historical results of windfarms built over the past decade show more birds are killed by passing cars on nearby highways than by the wtg's. WTG's got their "bird quisinarts" bad rap from the smaller wtg's installed in CA in the '80s, before EIS' were required or became sophisticated. New wtg rotors turn 20 rpm. Those old wtg's have small rotors turning so fast the blades are a blur. Worse, they were mounted on lattice towers, which provide nesting places for the birds in treeless areas, like Altamont Pass west of Oakland, CA. New wtg's are on smooth tube towers with no place for birds to nest. EIS' are supposed to keep windfarms from being located in bird flight paths. Unusually high bird and bat kills ("avian strikes") for new windfarms are usually linked to flawed EIS.
To Merlin8, who occasionally drives thru the farm fields of MN/SD - - no one holds a gun to the heads of those farmers/landowners in the vast open spaces of western MN and eastern Dakotas, forcing them to sign those lucrative wind leases. When I worked for a windfarm company, 3 landowners on 3 different windfarms in 3 different states told me the same thing: "Your windmills saved our farm!"
Don Quixote, climbing a 300 ft. wtg pays a starting salary of $40+k/yr, far more than you can afford to pay someone to mow your yard. And the wtg's carry a 20 yr warranty, and wind leases are for 25 yrs, many with options to renew past 50 yrs., so a windturbine tech can make a pretty decent career of it.
Becky| 3.1.10 @ 8:06AM
It is high school science. How do you make the wind predictable? The trade off of investing and working on wind energy is a failure to investigate and work on hydrogen and nuclear, both with greater energy density.
Pete| 3.1.10 @ 10:45AM
Becky, Becky, Becky...any man who can command the entire climate to change can certainly get the wind to fall in line. Geez. Non-believer.
Margie| 3.1.10 @ 12:47PM
Algore can just will it.
camp168| 3.1.10 @ 1:58PM
Just put a teleprompter at the far end of the wind turbine field and let B. Hussien Obama drone on as he tends to. That will get MN through the 4-6months of winter with a surplus of energy.....
coal carrier| 3.1.10 @ 8:10AM
Maybe the University of Minnesota can apply for a $50,000,000.00 grant from the Department of Energy to do a study. From this seed money, they can determine what needs to be done to keep the turbines from freezing up. When that doesn’t work, maybe Obama’s Energy Czar can appear before a Congressional Committee and demand that the laws of Thermodynamics be changed. After all, the progressives are in charge now. So let it written, so let it be done.
fbom| 3.1.10 @ 8:26AM
Just tell the EPA to pass a regulation that commands the windmills to work in cold climates. That should take care of the problem. :)
By the way - everyone who has not done so should read War and Peace. There is a part about the French retreat from Moscow. It describes how the French Army went through all the motions of still be an army but was nothing more than a mob running like hell back to Poland to try to find warmth and food. Also, to try to figure out how to declare this defeat a major victory. Kind of sounds like BO's administration, doesn't it.
Merlin8| 3.1.10 @ 8:32AM
Amen! Fifteen years ago I was travelling on the Minnesota/South Dakota border. Lansdcape is right out of Dances With Wolves. Ten years later it's a bloody wind farm. That area's so flat that you have to get 25 miles away before the things drop out of sight. I wonder what would happen if we forced the "let the world be natural" fanatics to live with these big turbines every day. (Actually, I know. That much motion in your peripheral vision triggers a "fight or flight" reflex, making it impossible to concentrate. You wind up a nervous wreck in about a week. )
Mattled| 3.1.10 @ 9:07AM
Amen!
Let's start applying for permits in Martha's Vineyard, The Hamptons, Bel-Air, Georgetown, and Central Park.
Let's see how many Gas Bags sign up. My guess is zero.
Rick Z| 3.1.10 @ 12:38PM
Teddy Kennedy actually did force the cancellation of Wind Farms off the coast of Cape Cod. The 'over the horizon' sea based windmills would have interfered with sailing from Hyannis, where the Kennedy Compound is located.
Melvin| 3.1.10 @ 8:35AM
Look at it this way at least Americans are putting Europeans to work constructing these tinker toys.
The exchange rate to the Euro is what. Conceivably we could be paying double for these
machines. But then again who cares its all Monopoly money right?
Pingback| 3.1.10 @ 8:36AM
Tilting at Windmills links to this page. Here’s an excerpt:
Steve| 3.1.10 @ 8:52AM
The example of a 1.8 megawatt turbine generating $1.75 million per year of revenue is off by at least a factor of 5. Wind turbines are generally able to produce, on average, about 20% of rated capacity based on the local wind characteristics. The payback is over 10 years and that doesn't account for the significant maintenance costs. Nor does it account for the transmission interconnection costs.
Chuck Badger| 3.1.10 @ 8:59AM
Important point: Though an industrial scale wind turbine may have a rated capacity to generate 1.8 megawatts, even the wind industry admits they won't ever generate more than 30% of that figure. In states with poor wind resource, such as Wisconsin, that number drops to 20%. It's also important to note that turbines need to be backed up by traditional power plants-- as in coal-- at all times. No coal plant has ever been retired anywhere in the world because a wind project was put up. A leading environmental group, Clean Wisconsin, pointed out that unless coal plants were retired in exchange for wind there would be no reduction in CO2 or GHG because of wind. A new post construction study on bird and bat mortality made to the Wisconsin Public Service commission show that the bird and bat kills are five to ten times the national average in a 88 Turbine project called Blue Sky/Green Field. It doesn't take much to uncover the very real downsides of Big Wind, but for many people this news is too heartbreaking to take in. People hoped Big Wind would solve pollution problems and create jobs, and all of the other promises being made. No one wants to let go of that hope. I didn't. But hanging onto it in the face of such glaring evidence is doing no one any favors except for wind developers.
L. Ross| 3.1.10 @ 10:32AM
Chuck Badger.
If you are truly serious about protecting wild birds, ban housecats. They are a highly successful wild bird predator. Modern windmills rotate much more slowly due to the long blade lengths, and result in far fewer wildlife deaths than the old whirly gigs of the '80's and '90's.
Bald Eagle| 3.2.10 @ 9:46PM
Different birds, L. Ross. Your house cat may catch some sparrows and an occasional robin, but he ain't gonna catch one of us birds of prey - we may more easily catch your house cat, unless he's one of those "fat cats" that your president mentioned. Those guys are too much of a damn workout to get up into the tree, not to mention the saturated fat content of those bastards (the fat cats, I mean).
The environment of the windmills is more likely that where we birds of prey and the big migratory birds live. I'm not arguing with you on how many deaths however.
Economically, the windmills don't work. If they did, as a poster above stated, the government would not have to be involved in the first place, as businessmen are not stupid.
Don Quixote| 3.1.10 @ 10:37AM
I owned a manufacturing company that made parts for turbine heaters by the thousands 5 years ago but only now is anyone paying any attention.
Another observation, where are you going to find anyone to climb a 300ft ladder to work on these things when you can't find anyone to mow your lawn?
Finally the people who are build many of the components off shore are purely scary. Many of these components are being built by countries who can't build proper motorcycles.
Richard Rogers| 3.1.10 @ 10:40AM
I would like to see more of the underlying figures supporting the claim that wind farms can have a two-year payout. One of the principal architects of what he termed as one of the most productive installations in the country admitted to me that the payout for his project was twenty years and that only possible with Federal assistance.
Bruce Thompson| 3.1.10 @ 10:44AM
The math definitely does not work out. If the turbine could generate its nameplate output (1.8 MW) 24 hours a day, 365 days a year it would generate 15,768 MWH. Assuming each of 500 families paid $3,500 per year ($1.75 million divided by 500 is $3,500 not $2,150 as stated above) the cost per MWH would be $110.98 or 11.098 cents per KWH.
That figure represents the total income to the utility. From that they would have to pay for the cost of the wind turbine, the interest on the investment, the cost of the distribution system, franchise fees, taxes, and a profit.
Also factor in that the average output is only about 20% of nameplate so the cost per MWH would go to $555 MWH or 55.5 cents per KWH.
There is a very good reason European wind turbine manufacturers are going broke!
Don Quixote| 3.1.10 @ 10:58AM
Cut through it all!!!!
If these things had a 2 year pay-out there would be no need for stimulus or any other Gov $.
owyheewine| 3.1.10 @ 11:03AM
Let me pose another possible consequence of massive wind development.
We all know that wind occurs somehow as a result of uneven heating of the atmosphere by the sun. Winds move air around the globe to try to equalize air pressure differences caused by this solar interaction. That means that winds work to moderate temperatures by moving heated air toward cold climates and hot air toward cooler climes. They also move air from night to daylight and vice versa. That means that winds are a vital force in maintaining our climate. What happens if we extract so much energy from winds that global temperature moderation is comprimised?
Just wondering.
Northern Rebel| 3.1.10 @ 11:21AM
It amuses me that the enviro-wackos love these behemoths so much. I live 35 miles southeast of Syracuse NY, in rolling hills of green so beautiful, it reminds me of the Emerald Isle.
Suddenly these infernal machines began appearing on top of these gorgeous hills, looking like characters from War of the Worlds, and the greenies are tickled pink!
Traffic increased 300% because of the gawk factor, (they are 300' high, impressive if you like that sort of thing) and a beautiful serene countryside is destroyed.
Residents already complain of headaches from the 24/7 buzzing sound, and countless turkeys have been decapitated.
Yet the liberals are as pleased as punch!
If someone had wanted to build a factory that enhanced employment opportunities in this economically depressed neck of the woods, they would have broken out their Birkenstocks and picket signs, and had a temper tantrum!
Ahh, the joys of living in a socialist Mecca that is NY state! And to think, Madison County, where this is occuring, is the most conservative county in NY!
Sam| 3.1.10 @ 2:22PM
Of course, I'm sure your perfectly okay with drilling for oil in the oceans off our coast since you yourself don't live by the coast.
fbom| 3.1.10 @ 2:48PM
Dear Sam: It is OK for Senator Kennedy to block windmills but not the average citizen?
Sam| 3.1.10 @ 3:20PM
You bring up a good point fbom, but I was pissed about that Kennedy thing too. That was even more ridiculous, actually. Just because I don't like the idea of drilling does not make me a liberal, you know.
I am a moderate.
Todd| 3.1.10 @ 6:30PM
A moderate idiot
chuck| 3.1.10 @ 7:06PM
Sam, moderate my ass! Off shore drill rigs are not visible from the coastline, at least the vast majority of them. And certainly any new ones won't be, as the shallow wells are tapped. So if you can't see it, what are you bitching about?
Hell, I lived in Houston, actually Humble, which if you know anything about the history of oil production, you would know the vast amount of oil that was produced. There are still active wells pumping oil out of the ground, and no one gives a rat's ass about a spoiled view. GET OVER IT!!! DRILL HERE ,DRILL NOW!!!
Jenny Johnston| 3.1.10 @ 11:46AM
In the cloudy and rainy Northwest, they are talking about solar panel energy. What??? Is there a new plan to make the sun shine all winter?
We are pround of our renewable source of energy - hydroelectric. But that is not good enough for the greenies.
Yosemeti Sam| 3.1.10 @ 11:54AM
" ... Even Senator Charles Schumer (D-NY), hardly a foe of Obama's stimulus package, was disappointed with the news that foreign companies were receiving-4 to 1-stimulus funds and jobs on renewable energy-related projects. In an interview with ABC News he said: "Very few jobs here, lots of jobs in China. That is not what I intended or any other legislator who voted for the stimulus intended...It is fine that the Chinese make them. But why don't we use the stimulus money to start building up an industry to build them here, that was the very point of the stimulus." ...."
First off - find out who cuts the checks for these
foreign entities including the Chinese commies; stealing American 'green' jobs.
Tie them check signers to some of the off-shore windmills and subject em to vertigo until they fess up to their co-conspirators.
LOL.
Bram| 3.1.10 @ 11:55AM
Unfortunately Senator Schumer isn't curious enough to ask why foreign manufacturers have such an advantage over Americans. He probably would not like the answers - confiscatory corporate taxes, out of control regulations, and miles of red-tape are not conducive to business growth.
Pingback| 3.1.10 @ 12:12PM
The American Spectator : Tilting at Windmills links to this page. Here’s an excerpt:
Dean| 3.1.10 @ 1:10PM
In Michigan, a company recently proposed building a wind turbine installation of some 100 units in the waters two miles off shore near the village of Pentwater. Given the size of the units and their proximity to land, they would be a blight on the lakefront views and are vigorously opposed by the local residents. I hope that they prevail, for who wants to see the setting sun over Lake Michigan obscured by scores of wind turbines?
Franklin| 3.1.10 @ 1:21PM
hehe, Yosemeti Sam, I was thinking the same thing - who approved awarding stimulus (tax) money to foreign companies? I like your solution!
Next time you hear "2 million saved or created jobs" as a result of the stimuli bills, ask if any of them were in the USA.
BTW, I read a story about a hobby farmer that installed a baby turbine (ok, it was cute - maybe 9 ft. tall with bent blades; probably cost about $1,000) in his back yard. Local govt was screaming that he didn't get a permit. Gee whiz, you can't win.
mt| 3.1.10 @ 1:36PM
what happens when the wind doesn't blow?
fbom| 3.1.10 @ 2:38PM
What happens when the wind doesn't blow? NOTHING HAPPENS. That is the point. A massive investment for NOTHING.
Curtis Rasmussen| 3.1.10 @ 3:03PM
Something happens. You lose money.
Sam| 3.1.10 @ 2:24PM
MT,
That's a good question and that's why wind turbines should be built in areas that have a high frequency of wind. Minnesota, while being a bit too cold, does provide high winds necessary to turn the turbines.
Northern Rebel| 3.1.10 @ 2:51PM
Sam:
DRILL! DRILL!DRILL! DRILL! DRILL! DRILL!
DRILL NOW! DRILL NOW! DRILL NOW!
Mattled| 3.1.10 @ 3:10PM
Rebel---originally from Camillus myself. Took my wife to wine country on the Finger Lakes and apple picking in Lafayette last year.
very beautiful country that is central NY. Too bad it is so depressing to live there with the economy and many democrats still waiting for Hillary Clinton's 2 million jobs she promised upstate back in 2000.
35 miles SE? Near Cooperstown? Owego?
that may be too far. I do remember going to Green Lakes in HS and in between college years.
Sam| 3.1.10 @ 3:23PM
Not in our ocean. We will continue to block you people from inland states who don't care about us on the coast. Rep. Brian Bilbray (R-San Diego) has lead the way in preventing your obsession with drilling from fouling up our oceans.
Pete| 3.1.10 @ 3:59PM
And in turn, you may continue to tax yourselves into bankruptcy and enjoy energy shortages.
Mattled| 3.1.10 @ 4:31PM
Then please give up your car.
Don't take buses.
Don't fly.
Don't heat/cool your home.
If you don't want to drill, fine---all libs should give up all above mentioned and we wouldn't need the extra oil. It's Al Gwhores lifestyle we have to maintain. And Piglosi's.
Pingback| 3.1.10 @ 4:09PM
Merry 'Glacier' Christmas! – Franz Josef, New Zealand Travel Blog | New Zealand Trave links to this page. Here’s an excerpt:
westcoast barbie| 3.1.10 @ 4:59PM
Drew Thornley in National Review Online provided an interesting look at comparative footprints (land usage requirements) for nuclear, solar, and wind. The graphics for a typical 3200 MW plant (from Clean Energy Insight) are translated into text and are summarized by him here:
“Nuclear
I used the commonly accepted
westcoast barbie - 2 of 3| 3.1.10 @ 5:02PM
“Nuclear
I used the commonly accepted
westcoast barbie| 3.1.10 @ 5:07PM
Sorry folks - tried twice to provide the info, but for some reason it won't go through...
westcoast barbie| 3.1.10 @ 5:31PM
Still hasn’t gone through, so I’ll try one more time and just summarize Mr. Thornley’s numbers. In a nutshell:
Nuclear: a 3200-MW nuclear power plant requires about 1 sq. mi.
Solar: It requires 91 sq. mi. for 1000 MW (3200/1000MW = 3.2; 3.2 x 91 sq. mi. = 292 sq. mi.
Wind: It requires 260 sq. mi. for 1000MW (3200/1000MW = 3.2; 3.2 x 260 sq. mi. = 832 sq. mi.
Add to the above the mind-numbing 24/7 drone of the turbines and their secondary use as “bird cuisinarts.” (Funny how the EPA is unconcerned with the wild bird deaths, yet will shut down wide swaths of the Central California Valley farming over a small fish.) Then there is the immense water requirement for washing the solar panels once/week – with a twice monthly scrubbing with a special solution. Solar in the desert?
One begins to see quite a different picture for green energy.
Margie| 3.1.10 @ 10:09PM
Proving once again that Liberalism is a mental disorder.
Fascist| 3.2.10 @ 3:04PM
Some words from Hitler:
"Hence today I believe that I am acting in accordance with the will of the Almighty Creator: by defending myself against the *Jew, I am fighting for the work of the Lord."
* You may replace it with: leftist thoughts.
Conservative| 3.3.10 @ 12:10AM
Some words from God:
"For God so loved the *world He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish, but have eternal life." Jn. 3:16.
*You may replace it with: Jew
*You may replace it with Gentile
*You may replace it with Fascist.
E. Costello| 3.1.10 @ 5:42PM
Some nice pictures, too.
http://www.aweo.org/ProblemWithWind.html
gofer| 3.1.10 @ 6:24PM
25 years from now these windmachines will be strew across the landscape abandoned by the owners. Nobody will pay to remove them...they will become eternal eyesores just as some of the others have in Hawaii and Ca. It's one of those fads which will disappear as soon as other people's money is exhausted and people realize it was a horrible mistake and a huge waste of money. The only reason they are going up now is the huge subsidies and when someone, sane, takes over the govt., these will disappear.
brutus6| 3.2.10 @ 12:01PM
Most state and/or local governments require the windfarm companies to be bonded to cover the cost of reclaiming the site should the windfarm be abandoned in the future, before the governments will issue construction permits.
Ben (Australia) | 3.1.10 @ 6:48PM
Our windmills in Australia are eyesores – and noise polluters. Farmers can’t sleep in some areas. On the bright side, however, they’re very good at cutting endangered birds to shreds.
Pingback| 3.1.10 @ 7:50PM
HOME – Other Right Links and Posts links to this page. Here’s an excerpt:
Owen| 3.1.10 @ 8:31PM
If you want to see what the State of Oregon has done with what they call Business Energy Tax Credits (BETC) in regard to wind energy, just go to Oregon.live and type in "BETC". You will see many stories, editorials and letters to the editor. The bottom line is that the State has finally had to admit it way overspent in its desire to bring wind farms to Oregon and now they have started to realize that they sure could use all of the tax credit revenue that is going to be lost to the state for years, given the state's dire financial status.
As an interesting aside, I had cause to drive down the Columbia River Gorge in mid-January, from east to west, on I-84. It was a beautiful day - clear, blue sky, sunshine and most noticeably, no wind. I mean absolutely none. The Columbia River looked like glass, it was so still. Correspondingly noticeable was that the hundreds of wind turbines that now stand atop the hillsides on both the Oregon and Washington sides of the river were all completely still. There they stood, in all of their glory, completely motionless.
Wind is not a reliable source of energy, even some place like the Columbia River Gorge, where the perception is the wind is always blowing and where many millions of dollars, not to mention the tax credits, have been invested to harness the wind. Unfortunately for those invested in those projects, there sure was a lot of nothing happening with all of those turbines that day.
As long as the wind energy proponents accept that wind will never be a dependable primary source of energy but can be used as a sporadic secondary source of energy used to supplement the primary source, which will be generated by gas and coal fired generators, then wind energy has a place at the energy table. But, for those who think wind and solar will be the primary sources of energy in the near future, you need to get real - plain and simple - because that simply is unrealistic.
Therefore, there is only one logical conclusion and that is that we must drill and mine in order to achieve energy independence. That's the only realistic path to that independence.
Pingback| 3.1.10 @ 9:04PM
The American Spectator : Tilting at Windmills links to this page. Here’s an excerpt:
Pingback| 3.1.10 @ 9:04PM
The American Spectator : Tilting at Windmills links to this page. Here’s an excerpt:
Pingback| 3.1.10 @ 10:46PM
Mosques; palaces; cats; and …. liars? – Istanbul, Turkey Travel Blog | Turkey Traveli links to this page. Here’s an excerpt:
Zephir | 3.1.10 @ 11:06PM
Is the purpose of industry to generate money or workplaces?
It seems, windmills consume workplaces too effectivelly for being acceptable by rightwind conservationists, who are playing social game by now.
besserwessie| 3.2.10 @ 1:46AM
The Windmill Paradox
The wind is for free, endless, green and renewable.
Windmills coupled to the grid consume more power than they can deliver.
Because of the erratic behavior of the wind the conventional generating plants have to standby and geared up and down 24/7 all year round.
The additional fuel consumption equals or surpasses the savings made by windmills; I call this The Windmill Paradox.
An inconvenient truth really.
So effectively windmills produce green feelings for some and an eyesore for many.
And your tax money is blown away in the wind.
You can read a peer reviewed study on it based on German figures.
http://www.clepair.net/windsecret.html
brutus6| 3.2.10 @ 12:30PM
Wessie, the world is filled with conventional power plants that are on standby, and "gear up and down 24/7 all year round." They're called 'peaker' plants and they are used to meet the rise and fall in electric power DEMAND: electric demand 'peaks' on hot summer days when everyone is running their air conditioners wide open, and those 'peaker' plants, usually natural gas-fired, can go from zero (standby, 'free-spinning reserve') to wide-open in a matter of seconds, to meet the demand increase. It's the job they were designed to do because that's the nature of alternating current - you can't store it; you have to generate it when it's needed. Those 'peakers' would be there regardless of wind turbines. The electric grid managers who match generation to demand in 15 minute blocks, they have the tools of modern meteorology at their disposal to know more than 15 minutes in advance of any windspeed changes that will significantly effect the amount of wind generated power being put on the grid, and they adjust the 'peakers' accordingly.
brutus6| 3.2.10 @ 12:51PM
Wessie, any windfarm that uses more power ('parasitic load') than it generates is an isolated anomoly.
Wind companies study wind patterns on a particular site for years, and then correlate those years of data with decades of historical wind data usually from weather stations at nearby airports. So the wind companies know how many kilowatts, and therefore how much revenue a windfarm will generate on that site over the next 20 years, within a few single-digit percentage points, before they turn the first shovel of dirt to build it.
Windfarm owners are in the business to make a profit. Why would they spend $200 million building a windfarm if they knew it was going to lose money? Or, what foolish investor would give them the $200 mil, without first having the wind data to prove the site will be profitable?
Unless maybe it's a government owned project? Maybe only then would your Windmill Paradox work.
Pingback| 3.2.10 @ 3:13AM
Travelling around Wadi Rum – Wadi Rum, Jordan Travel Blog | Jordan Traveling links to this page. Here’s an excerpt:
Eratus C. Feathers| 3.2.10 @ 8:21AM
Them windy thingers is alright! Why, Obamie promissed all uv us here in Missour-uh, thet we'd have FREE electrik and such, for ar votes. Well, we doent need no electrik made by the Chinamen. So much alredy is made by the Chinamen I reckon becuz us "mericans is too lazy to work. Perty soon, the Chinamen is goin to make our babies as well. Talk about bein' lazy! But, thets whar Obamie is a takin' us. Stimlus--my koon-dingee!
Pingback| 3.2.10 @ 9:43AM
The American Spectator : Tilting at Windmills | Jordan today links to this page. Here’s an excerpt:
Pingback| 3.2.10 @ 2:07PM
My Journey Begins! – Taipei, Taiwan Travel Blog | Taiwan Traveling links to this page. Here’s an excerpt:
Pingback| 3.2.10 @ 11:51PM
In Transit – Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia Travel Blog | Malaysia Traveling links to this page. Here’s an excerpt:
Rhonda | 3.4.10 @ 12:16AM
Politics aside, I think that, in this era of climate change every little helps. Of course, states have to ensure that the technologies they adopt are appropriate to their situations.
That said, mitigating climate change is not the responsibility of governments alone and we can all do our little bits to help reduce our collective carbon footprint – by buying energy efficient appliances such as freezers for example.
Pingback| 3.7.10 @ 2:05AM
. o O ( Home Made Energy: Renewable Energy For The Rest Of Us Review: Scam or Seriou links to this page. Here’s an excerpt:
superpipoy | 3.26.11 @ 12:13PM
it is definitely not an excuse. ignorance is not an excuse to everybody.
Wine | 12.19.11 @ 2:47AM
Lansdcape is right out of Dances With Puppies. Ten years later on it's a bloody wind plantation. That area's so smooth that you have to acquire 25 miles away ahead of the things quit of picture. I wonder an amount happen when we forced the "let the world become natural" fanatics to live with these huge turbines every day. Unless should it be a government held project? Probably only after that would the Windmill Paradox work.
Michaelyn | 1.5.12 @ 3:12AM
Great post! An eye-opener for me. I think not everyone is aware of this. Glad, I had read your post. Thanks