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Washington Prowler
State Department Abandons Arrested Baptists
Spokesman Crowley likens orphan rescuers to drug-dealers. (Updated, 12:01 p.m.)
UPDATE (12:01 p.m.): We’ve heard from several parties working on the release of the so-called “Baptist 10” being held in Haiti, and they passed along the following updates:
First, Jim Allen was able to speak to his wife, Lisa, yesterday afternoon.
Second, those involved believe that the State Department and others inside the U.S. government are doing whatever they can to gain the release of those being held there.
*****
The U.S. State Department launched a campaign against the 10 Baptist American citizens being held on charges related to their attempt to move a group of young Haitian children to a temporary orphanage in the Dominican Republic.
On Tuesday, responding to a request by attorneys for Jim Allen, a welder from Texas, who is being held in Port au Prince on charges of kidnapping and child trafficking, State Department spokesman P.J. Crowley equated Allen’s and the other missionaries’ plight to that of drug dealers held by the Haitian government prior the earthquake. CNN reported: “Crowley said there are other Americans in custody in Haiti, in addition to the 10 Americans, but he provided no details of their identity or circumstances. Some are believed to be held on drug charges. ‘There are other Americans in custody. I don’t know what their charges are…. I think there were some in custody before the earthquake.’”
Crowley’s comments came after he announced that Secretary of State Hillary Rodham Clinton would not intercede in the case, since, Crowley claimed, Haiti has a functioning government. Crowley also claimed that the State Department was doing everything it could to assist the families of the ten prisoners, this despite the fact that lawyers for many of the families report that spouses were not contacted directly by the State Department until Monday, February 8, more than a week after their arrest.
Last Friday, former President Bill Clinton called on his own government to work with the Haitian government to defuse the situation.
Lisa Allen, the wife of welder Jim Allen, was expected to begin speaking with the media on Wednesday morning. Allen, who lives in Texas and whose cousin was the pastor of a Baptist church in Idaho, chose to travel to Haiti when his cousin told him about the trip to aid orphans who were being moved due to their Haitian orphanage being destroyed by the earthquake. Allen, a welder by profession, thought his construction and welding skills might be of help to the Haitian people, and paid his own way to meet up with his cousin.
Since his arrest, Allen has not been able to communicate with his wife, though on Tuesday afternoon, Haitian officials were attempting to get a personal letter from her to him in the prison where he is being held.
Letter to the Editor View all comments (194) | Leave a comment
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Ellis Wyatt| 2.10.10 @ 8:38AM
This is simply wrong. We need to hold all US federal monetary assistance to Haiti until these people are free. For the State Department to abandon American citizens who are obviously falsley accused is unacceptable and people within the state department should be held accountable.
Copyleft| 2.10.10 @ 9:00AM
"Obviously falsely accused," were they?
If you have some evidence that hasn't been reported, please contact the authorities. From what I've seen, they abducted kids from their famillies under false pretenses. That's definitely a crime.
Alec| 2.10.10 @ 9:25AM
Perhaps your assessment is correct, or perhaps not. But isn't this allegation what needs to be proved? Are they not to be presumed innocent until proved guilty?
ToniMarie Rigsby| 2.10.10 @ 9:37AM
Unfortunately Haitian law is based on Napoleonic law, guilty until proven innocent, that is why there is no bail system in Haiti. Which is why in my opinion the State Department should have looked more closely into these allegations.
Copyleft| 2.10.10 @ 11:11AM
Suspects are arrested every day. They're held in prison until a trial determines their guilt or innocence.
What's so unusual about that?
wwwexler| 2.10.10 @ 2:25PM
What's so unusual about an atheist attacking Christians? Nothing, it happens all of the time.
Copyleft| 2.11.10 @ 9:11AM
So, your argument is that Christians should be above the law? or just that the law shouldn't be enforced when Christians are involved?
AZTech2020| 2.11.10 @ 12:31PM
You hit the nail right on the head. "Christians" are not held to the same standards as us heathens! The usual theist arrogance!
wwwexler| 2.11.10 @ 12:36PM
My argument is that atheists like you always attack Christians--regardless of the facts. You assume the worst because it suits your purpose.
Copyleft| 2.11.10 @ 2:34PM
Show me what I've assumed, please.
They're suspects; they've been arrested and are in prison awaiting trial, just like anyone else suspected of a crime. You're the one who somehow finds that equal treatment outrageous.
Damon| 2.12.10 @ 2:57PM
Of course american suspects are arrested everyday, in every country. The difference is that the state dept.'s job is to help them through the legal process! Even if they are guilty!. They dont seem to be doing anything
Jack Winter| 2.10.10 @ 3:25PM
>>> But isn't this allegation what needs to be proved?
citizennine| 2.11.10 @ 3:34AM
I can understand why so many people are trying to help. But I know what I am about to type sounds really really bad and in poor taste, but not all smugglers are bad -- I mean have you seen how much it costs to adopt a Haitian orphan!! check the article out
http://bit.ly/azQDjp
so how can you blame the lady
ToniMarie Rigsby| 2.10.10 @ 9:32AM
What false pretenses? They families testified they gave the children willingly because they could not feed them, had no homes for them and no ability to tend to injuries some had sustained during the earthquake. They were going to feed, cloth, care for and eventually teach these kids as far as at least 8 of the 10 knew. The families had contact numbers and gave contact numbers, they were told they could be bused to see their children. These children were not abducted. Whatever legal troubles Laura Silsby had her intentions for an orphanage in the DR has not been disputed. There were several people waiting in the DR for the children to arrive and several more ready to go when called as needed. The people who answered the call to help with this mission trip were told there would eventually be 100 children to care for.
Anthony Bowen| 2.10.10 @ 9:54AM
What am I missing here? They went save "orphans" whose orphange was destroyed but ended up taking kids whose parents gave consent? All of this is normal behaviour?
Ray| 2.10.10 @ 10:54AM
That's called "charity." You know, when you extend kindness those those who need it. Those children needed that kindness and that kindness was offered. Those children's own families were worried about their children and they want those children to be offered what they, themselves couldn't provide. Other were willing to provide for those children and, with the consent of the families, try to provide assistance to those children. Just what, in any of this, do you find abnormal?
Leanne| 2.11.10 @ 12:28PM
Charity? Charity demands to bring them food, medications, clothes, clean water, give them your time; not cross the border with them without legal papers.
Sarah| 2.10.10 @ 10:55AM
Orphanages in most of the (third) world have children in them that have live parents that cannot take care of them. It is the norm. Our norm is otherwise.
ToniMarie| 2.10.10 @ 11:04AM
The only thing you're missing is that the they who went to save orphans thought that that is exactly what they were doing, I know several of these people you are passing judgment on. When the call came to Pastor Paul that help was needed to help step up plans for an orphanage in the DR after the earthquake he answered that call as well as his son, cousin, brother-in law and long time friend. These men and at least 3 of these women believed the Haitian pastor and Silsby that an existing Haitian orphanage had collapsed and that there were at least 100 children needing housing and care. She even called one of them "from the Dominican consulate" saying she was registering the names of the kids. It was not until they were turned back at the border, lead to the police station, and then arrested that at least 8 of them found out about the lies. I don't know if Silsby was misled by the Haitian pastor she met over a year ago, I don't know if her "live in nanny" Coulter was aware of any of the deceptions, what I do know is the other 8 are innocent good people.
Kyle | 2.10.10 @ 1:34PM
I am interested about the number--100 children that ToniMarie just mentioned. I read elsewhere--one of the news sites (can't recall which one)--that a Haitian police officer had been told by Silsby in a prior run-in that the group had approval to collect 100 children. That incident--if the officer's words are to be believed--resulted in his warning Silsby and removing a number of children from a bus. This incident--again, if we can believe it--occurred prior to the eventual arrest of the "Baptist 10."
Have any of you seen the 1960s film "The Inn of the Sixth Happiness"? In that film, a WWII-era missionary helps 100 children travel across country to escape the approaching Japanese army. Of course, she helped bring the children to an established orphanage elsewhere in the country of China. Moreover, she is still seen by many Chinese--especially in the country of Taiwan (though not in the Communist Mainland)--as a hero for her work under oppression. I think that Gladys Aylward went about things the right way under very chaotic circumstances. In any case, I don't see how Ms. Silsby arrived at her number--100 children. Perhaps it's just a good round number. But given her past financial/con-artist problems, I think it would be good to research whether she was trying to relive a movie--you know, be a hero in the mold of Gladys Aylward, by helping 100 children to escape chaos. Just a thought. I do realize it's speculation, but no one now seriously thinks Ms. Silsby was the right person for this job. I do think she effectively conned the others into this mess. That said, we can still be thankful for the Gladys Aylward's of the world.
David O| 2.10.10 @ 9:58AM
Can I go to Haiti now and grab some kids and show them pictures of a Day Spa and say I'm going to take the kids there? The Haitian parents had NO idea wo these people were, or that they were who they claimed they were. Promises of an orphanage and "better life" is creepy. Why not just tell the kids you have a puppy and candy in the bus and grab them the old fashioned way?
The Haitian Government has no choice to but charge them, or it sets a precedent for other would-be nappers.
Ray| 2.10.10 @ 10:59AM
A promise of a better life is "creepy" to you? You may not understand this, but offering someone a better life is NOT creepy. Did any of the children suffer in the hands of those "creepy" people? Where they abused, neglected, assaulted? Apparently not, as none of the ten have been charged with any of those crimes. So, how did you determine that it is "creepy?"
ToniMarie| 2.10.10 @ 11:21AM
The Haitian parents did know the Haitian pastor who lead Laura Silsby to that particular village. Comparing these people to perverts is beautiful, thanks for that. You don't know them, yet you along with many others have no problem assassinating their characters. Well I do know several of them. I know they answered a call to go help as many as 100 children whose orphanage in Haiti had collapsed. They were to help care for the kids and build a permanent orphanage in the DR. At least 8 of these people were mislead by Laura Silsby. What her motivation was I don't know, but I do know the motivation of the others. If the Haitian government weren't so corrupt they would have been allowing these people to speak for themselves all along to ascertain the truth, instead the only way the American's obtained that right was by smuggling out a note to NBC and exposing the extortion attempt by "court officials." This was a way for them to look busy to divert the world's eyes from the fact that they are doing nothing for their suffering citizens.
ExPat| 2.11.10 @ 2:07AM
David O,
I live in a third world country, the Philippines and you obviously have no clue about the poverty and hopelessness that some of these children live in. From what I have read Haiti is even worse. A better life to these kids does not consist of "a puppy and candy" but just a little hope. I'm a Catholic not a Baptist, but judging from my Baptist Christian brothers and sisters that I knew when I lived in the States their intent was to save these children not to abuse them or sell them as sex slaves as some of the anti- Christian liberal pundits such as yourself seem to suggest. A little projection there, David?
ggoblue| 2.10.10 @ 11:22AM
as if you are down there and have actually seen anything. you are talking out your ass. and thats definitely BS.
Snap| 2.11.10 @ 7:47AM
And you, what are you talking out of?
Marc Jeric| 2.10.10 @ 6:32PM
No, Sir - the kids' parents begged those missionaries to save their kids who had no food, no medical care.
Mondo | 2.10.10 @ 11:52PM
You're exactly right!
Those American missionaries and welders and volunteers left their families and flew to Haiti on their own dime so they could traffic in children. I'm surprised the Obama administration isn't condemning them by name on TV.
You know nothing more than what you read. The only crime that's been committed is that of condemnation without the facts.
Eric Cartman| 2.11.10 @ 10:30AM
Don't worry Ellis - I have a plan! If these people were Lefty gay-rights organizers arrested having anal-sex at the "Gay Rights" parade in Haiti, the State Department would be sending in teams of lawyers and Clinton would be flying down to rescue them personally. So they should simply say they were taking these gay children over the boarder for an abortion and a "Gay Rights" hug-in in the Dominican Republic. See? Case closed.
Susan| 2.15.10 @ 3:14PM
These Baptist were manipulating the families and children. Who are they to market American Education and swimming pools? Is this better than being with your family? What these self righteous ignorant baptists have done is morally wrong and they should not be protected by American Government? Should child stealing in our own country be protected by our government? Would you want your children taken from you? Disgusting.
Albert A. Turner| 2.10.10 @ 8:45AM
This current US government is operating much like a Hugo Chavez government. Change and big time change is on the way.
Russ Center| 2.10.10 @ 8:46AM
Not surprising. As soon as "Baptist" was mentioned, I had no doubt the Obama Administration would turn against them.
Tim| 2.10.10 @ 1:18PM
Bingo.
Ken (Old Texican)| 2.10.10 @ 8:56AM
Hold it!
Haiti is a dictatorship of a truly horrid caliber.
Obama needs to go down there , bow, and learn some tricks of the trade.
Arghhh! This is despicable.
We give terrorists "miranda rights" but fail to demand rights for our own citizen missionaries?
Despicable!
I hope the facts come out...soon.
I am reminded of the honest Christians who have been imprisoned down through history, though.
I pray these folks come out all right.
ToniMarie Rigsby| 2.10.10 @ 9:03AM
Crowley was arrogant and rude. Paul Thompson is one of the finest men I've ever had the privilege of knowing!He was our families pastor while we lived in Idaho, Silas is a wonderful young man and Steve has a heart of gold. I've never met the others but the fact remains that at least 8 if not 9 of these people had absolutely no knowledge of any wrong doing they may or may not have done. As for Crowley & Clinton's claim that they have been receiving consulate services, if so why did a diabetic go a full week without access to insulin, and why when it did arrive was it from another missionary and not a representative of the American Consulate? This administration has chosen to allow a corrupt government to make examples out of descent people who's intentions were purely to help, I don't know why and frankly I don't care. I just want them home.
Sandra_in_Severn| 2.10.10 @ 10:01AM
Now if it were a group of antireligious and homosexual activists watch how fast "the One" would have intervened.
It is ONLY BECAUSE THEY ARE AN ACTIVE CHRISTIAN GROUP that the current Administration has "washed their hands of them."
St. Thor| 2.10.10 @ 10:02AM
As Keith Laumer said, "Every person working for the State Department should be fired and never allowed to work in any government job for the rest of their lives."
Jenny Johnston| 2.10.10 @ 11:08AM
As they say, the road to hell is paved with good intentions.
This group of well-meaning but naive people had no business going to Haiti. Obviously they were in well over their heads. Why couldn't they have sent money to aid organizations like the Red Cross who know how to help people and are already in the field? The plane fare alone would have been a sizable contribution.
I am sorry that they find themselves in this situation, but they did bring it upon themselves by by-passing and disrespecting the laws of a foreign country.
That being said, I believe the State Department does have an obligation to do what it can to help these folks out.
Conan the Grammarian| 2.10.10 @ 11:23AM
Jenny, I have to agree with you and go even further. As a Christian, I have looked at the historical evangelism efforts in the third world, and I despair. What good has it done Africa? A few pockets of Christianity in a sea of Islam, Voodoo, and Animism. Haiti is no different. These Baptists were well meaning but ignorant and lacking in common sense.
Mark| 2.10.10 @ 11:29AM
What's your point? You are beyond ambiguous.
"What good has it done Africa?"
What *good* are you looking for?
Snap| 2.11.10 @ 7:53AM
Blah, Blah, Blah... They had permission. There is no communication between people in the government. They were trying to help. Haiti has just stomped on it's own foot. And our upcoming Socialist Government created by Obama himself will show you stuff you ain't never seen before.
Zane| 2.11.10 @ 8:50PM
Why couldn't they have sent money to aid organizations like the Red Cross who know how to help people and are already in the field? .....
Are you sure they did not send money? When Given an opportunity to do even more would it be better for them to just say No I gave at the office!!!
Try to picture what you would do if someone you trust and respect(maybe even your Pastor, Brother in-law, Best Friend) came to you and said we have a group of people opening an orphanage in Dominican Republic to try and help the kids from Haiti and we really needed people to go and help! Remember how most of us felt while watching all these people hurt, homeless, and hungry...most of us wished we could do more to help! 8 or 9 of these people heard there was a need and a way to help and they dropped everything, left their comfortable life, and did what ever it took to go into the unknown just to help kids!! These are not evil people! Or crazy people! Or people who wanted to steal children or rip apart families! None of the people who answered the call to help Mrs. Silsby did so thinking that they we going to be doing anything against the law! They are big hearted loving people who were just trying to do something good!
If every thing had been done the right way by Mrs. Silsby the story would be very different! We would be reading a story or watching a short news story about the wonderful people who have used there own time & money to help provide for children during a time of unimaginable tragedy!
They would show kids being feed, clothed, playing, & learning! It would be one of those feel good heart warming stories!
Mark| 2.10.10 @ 11:26AM
"Religion that is pure and undefiled before God, the Father, is this: TO VISIT ORPHANS AND WIDOWS IN THEIR AFFLICTION, and to keep oneself unstained from the world." - James 1:27
Snap| 2.11.10 @ 7:54AM
You hit the nail on the head, brother!
Jesus Saved My Cock| 2.14.10 @ 1:49AM
My brother, am I now free to kidnap non American children??? Praise the fucking LORD!
WRTolkas| 2.10.10 @ 11:41AM
This situation profoundly illustrates one of Murphy's Cardinal Rules: No Good Deed Goes Unpunished.
I truly hope and pray the best for these saints; however I remember Joseph, though innocent, was thrown into the dungeons.
As for me, I'm taking the easy way out. I'm watching the Haitian situation on T.V. I've got too many people here in the U.S.A. to shepherd.
Regards,
WRTolkas
John| 2.14.10 @ 1:53AM
Saints? It is a hard road to become a saint. Try checking with the only true church before you start talking about saints. The rules are strict. These guys are just kidnappers.
Anthony| 2.10.10 @ 11:50AM
There was actually a good article re the Baptist missionaries in the Times. It appeared that parents gave their kids willingly, but the missionaries were naive at best about taking the kids to their facility. Keep in mind, by the way, that Haiti is far less anti-faith than our country, which seems under assault in this regard.
The State Dept reaction shows a disturbing pattern of anti-Christianity in the Obama administration, manifested in many ways, but especially in his extremist nominees.
Jesus Christ Youre Bored| 2.14.10 @ 1:55AM
No international group of "missionaries" is naive. They were just trying to sneak it under the radar in a time of crisis. They are parasites.
Richard | 2.10.10 @ 11:51AM
Wait a minute! Couldn't these churchmen get the permission of the Haitian government or did they even try? By taking children out of Haiti they must have known they were breaking Haitian law. Perhaps I am missing something but facts on this incident are hard to come by.
Amy| 2.10.10 @ 11:52AM
Good! They should not be bailed out just because they are American. I think it is disgusting that they lied to those poor parents and told them that they were only taking the kids to the Dominican Republic for an education and that they could still see them and that they would be back to visit! Instead Silsby was going to adopt them out (that has been widely reported and not denied by Silsby). That was her big cash cow. She had visions of a resort with villas and cafes for adoptive parents. She lied about them being orphans from an orphanage. She instead just went to a random village and started rounding up children. Children who reportedly cried for their mothers and fathers. Why the need for so many lies? When you are innocent, isn't the truth on your side? I'll believe that maybe some of the other missionaries were duped by Silsby, but I'm disappointed that more people aren't outraged by Silsby's actions and arrogance. Or do you guys just believe that it's ok to steal Haitian kids since they'd be raised in Christian homes? Is that it?
wwwexler| 2.10.10 @ 2:21PM
Amy, who are you and how do you know these details? Please provide some proof to support your incendiary accusations.
Zane| 2.11.10 @ 9:19PM
Amy have you been there? Talked to the parents or the children? Seen the Orphanage, or even had a real good look at the flyer that was shown? Or are you getting all your wealth of information about these people & their intentions from the news reports by news affiliates like CNN & FOX!!
Do you think it would be as much of a new story if they did not spin it in to something awful and despicable like baby stealing and child trafficking??
My best guess is you do not know these people or anything that really happened except what you hear on the news!
I do not know Mrs. Silsby or her intentions, but I do know enough to know without a doubt that at least 95% of the people who went to the Dominican Republic/Haiti went with the best of intentions and were there just trying to do something to help!! They would not have gone if they believed for one second what they would be doing anything to hurt children or that was against the law!!!
Amy| 2.10.10 @ 11:54AM
What if some foreign missionary group came here and found some single mothers in inner cities to take children from? Lied to them about the kids being taken somewhere for a good education? Tried to cross our borders without proper documents? Put the pics of the kids on their "charity" website as being available for adoption? How would Americans feel about that?
zane| 2.11.10 @ 9:37PM
Amy do you think women in the good old USA do not sell their children? Do you think that single mothers so not give up their rights to children all the time hoping for a better life for their children? Have you looked to see if there are charity sites with pictures of American children available for adoption? Do you really think American children are not adopted by people in foreign countries?
All of the above happen everyday right here in America!!! There are even laws that allow women to drop of their unwanted children at Churches, Fire stations, and hospitals!
Why are you so sure these parents were lied to? There was(is) a orphanage, clothes, food, toys, doctors, and even people willing able and ready to teach any children that should arrive! Also there were people there on their own dime ready and waiting to help care for children the moment that arrived! Most (8 or 9) of the people arrested that day did not know they did not have the proper documents! Also parents were told right were the kids would be & how to contact them!!
Now put your self in these parents shoes...No home, no money, watching your children suffer because they were hungry and thirsty and maybe even hurting. Also knowing soon it would be worse. Rain would come, and soon diseases would spread! What would you do? Many of the parents said to the news crews that they would want their children adopted or in a orphanage if it meant better then what they had right then, and what they have is nothing!!
You do NOT know what you are talking about!
Amy| 2.10.10 @ 11:56AM
Those Haitian parents were lied to! They did not know their kids would be adopted out. Why do people excuse lies as "good intentions?" I don't understand.
jaol1fe| 2.10.10 @ 12:00PM
The Kansas City Star had an article where the group was "asked" to pay $300/head to cross but they refused to pay and were then arrested.
http://www.kansascity.com/703/story/1728522.html
In an e-mail from the Idaho church that organized the mission, Keller read that the group tried three times to acquire the paperwork before they were asked to pay $300 a head for the children to cross the border. Culberth’s group refused, Keller said, and before long they were arrested.
Read more: Kansan jailed in Haiti has 'tender heart' - KansasCity.com
GW| 2.10.10 @ 12:06PM
Amy, you're speaking out of your fat ass. How the hell do you know what happened? Were you there? I'm going to give the benefit of the doubt to a group of Baptist missionaries above a 3rd world government.
What's truly disgusting is the State Department. Can't they ONE TIME fight for American citizens? Even if the Americans are guilty, who cares? They're AMERICAN and this goes above whatever 3rd world judicial system Haiti has. With the money and resources we are spending down there, we should be able to do about anything we want.
Copyleft| 2.11.10 @ 9:12AM
Wow, you don't even PRETEND to respect the rule of law, do you?
Does that GW stand for "GW Bush"?
wwwexler| 2.11.10 @ 12:38PM
Joke. You liberals don't care about the rule of law; you just use it as a means to control your opponents.
Copyleft| 2.11.10 @ 2:35PM
Congratulations on your mind-reading ability and apparent expertise in what other people believe. Why haven't you turned these amazing talents to winning the lottery?
wwwexler| 2.18.10 @ 1:00AM
These 'talents' are becoming known to most Americans, that's why we're going to boot your fascist asses in November!
George F| 2.10.10 @ 2:39PM
This government's attitude that these people are little more than drug dealers says more about what kind of an administration we currently have than it does about the people trying to help the children.
You Hippo Critapotomus| 2.14.10 @ 1:46AM
Will you support Haitians kidnapping American children and have such a benign attitude? Try reversing the roles. Yeah, I thought so.
Amy| 2.10.10 @ 3:09PM
To GW,
Not sure where in my post I mentioned a fat ass, but whatever...
Have you not read any other articles besides this one? There are dozens of articles out there (on reputable sites like New York Times, CNN, and FOX, take your pick) that mention that the Haitian parents were told that the children were only going to the DR for an education. And there are several articles that mention that Laura Silsby said that she wanted to set up an orphanage to adopt them out (but for some reason many people aren't appalled by that) . Is that not dirty to deceive the parents? The parents who had to make the agonizing choice of which child to trust the Americans with? They thought they would still get to see their kids. And have you not read any articles where it says that Laura Silsby first claimed that the children were all orphans from and orphanage? (She lied) Or about the Haitian children who cried for their mothers and fathers? I didn't mention a single thing that isn't being reported out there (and most of the articles are even pro Baptist missionary group).
I'm not sure where I pushed a button with you. Feel free to be a little more specific. And when you say that we need to give them the benefit of the doubt, which story of theirs would you like me to believe?
BTW, I do believe that some of them were duped by Laura Silsby.
Amy| 2.11.10 @ 9:54PM
Oh Amy your problem is you believe everything you are feed by the media! If you knew this story from the side of the people who actually lived it you might not be so sure about everything you hear/read on CNN!! There are two sides to every story and even the almighty FOX & CNN can twist a story or get their facts down right wrong!!
I will agree that Mrs. Silsby mislead many and I even think she should be held accountable, but you seem to think everything done or said by these 10 people was lies! I assure you that is not so! The people there (and there were more then 10 people there)with the exception of maybe Mrs. Silsby were there to help start the orphanage and care for the children, and had no plans in place to adopt or have any part in the adoption of these children!
Also I don't think Mrs. Silsby is evil. I think she did want to help children. I feel she may have just gone about it in the wrong way! I think she may have gotten in way to deep, & without enough smarts to know what to do or say!
amy| 2.10.10 @ 3:22PM
"What's truly disgusting is the State Department. Can't they ONE TIME fight for American citizens? Even if the Americans are guilty, who cares? They're AMERICAN and this goes above whatever 3rd world judicial system Haiti has. With the money and resources we are spending down there, we should be able to do about anything we want. "
Seriously? So even if they are guilty it's ok because they are American? We as Americans can go into other countries and do whatever we want to? Hmmm...Since we owe so much money to China maybe the Chinese should come here and do whatever they want (criminally) and then the Chinese government should just pluck them out of here without them having to go through our legal system. Maybe China should have come and rounded up some children after Katrina and taken them to another country (whether they had parents or not) for a better life. Would that have been ok? Since it appears that you think we can do what we want in Haiti and to Haiti because we have given them money and resources.
Snap| 2.11.10 @ 8:08AM
What a dope. The Chinese and other countries do come here to take our children as slaves for sex, working in sweat shops, etc. We have at least 5 major cities where this is happening big time. Oh, and here is my proof. http://www.associatedcontent.c.....human.html
And they are not here to take the children to some orphanage to be saved.... What a duffus
Copyleft| 2.11.10 @ 9:14AM
Which is NOT OKAY, correct?
So why should we do the same? We're supposed to be better than that. Geez, grow some principles willya? If you don't have honor, you're nothing.
wwwexler| 2.11.10 @ 12:39PM
Why do you assume the worst about your fellow Americans? Typical liberal atheist.
Copyleft| 2.11.10 @ 2:38PM
Wrong as usual, Wexler. I don't assume the worst about my fellow Americans; I assume they're ordinary humans, just as all Christians, Jews, and Muslims are ordinary humans.
Sometimes they commit crimes. Sometimes they're falsely accused. Respecting due process only counts as "disrespect" in your warped little imaginationland, where Americans are automatically above suspicion--unless they're liberals or atheists, of course!
wwwexler| 2.18.10 @ 1:02AM
Projection is a pillar of Marxist thought--that would be you, Lib Reader.
Jenny Johnston| 2.10.10 @ 3:28PM
These people had no business taking children out of the country. They had no business going there in the first place. Common sense should have prevailed above a desire to "Do something". Now they are paying for their mistake. And I agree, Laura Silsby is the person most reponsible for this mistake. From what I have read about her, she seems to think that the law does not apply to her.
But when all is said and done, they are Americans and are in need of help from our government. Hey, if we can Mirandize terrorists and give them rights that are supposed to be only for US citizens, why can't we help US citizens who are in trouble abroad?
Copyleft| 2.11.10 @ 9:16AM
Fair enough, Jenny... but what "help" should we provide, other than ensuring they get a fair trial? They're accused of breaking the law, and there's reason to suspect the accusation is true.
Should we send in Marines to break them out and bring them home? I don't think so.
(By the way, under the Constitution ALL people have rights to due process in our system... not just U.S. citizens. 9/11 didn't change that fact.)
wwwexler| 2.11.10 @ 12:40PM
Typical liberal: Always assume the worst about your fellow American.
Copyleft| 2.11.10 @ 2:32PM
Typical right-winger; ignore the law when it doesn't suit your convenience.
wwwexler| 2.18.10 @ 1:03AM
Projection is a pillar of marxist thought, AG Holder.
Aleena| 2.10.10 @ 3:50PM
Amy,
The only one who is lying is you. The Haitian government is corrupt. The people were asked to pay $300 per child, refused, and were arrested.
You simply are talking nonsense and aren't aware of you own foolishness. The only thing you seek to do is discredit anything a Christian does. Your true motives are clear.
justplainbill| 2.10.10 @ 3:57PM
Haiti is 70% Catholic, 30% Protestant and 100% Voo Doo. That is African witchcraft. It is the same spirit that has created a problem for New Orleans. Those poor Baptists didn't know what they were getting into. Stay away from that wicked place. God's judgment is on it.
Copyleft| 2.11.10 @ 9:17AM
There's a good Christian attitude.
What book is that from? I don't recall the quote "And Jesus saith unto them, 'Screw 'em, they're not Christian'."
wwwexler| 2.11.10 @ 12:42PM
Atheists lie!
Copyleft| 2.11.10 @ 2:32PM
As do Christians (and Jews, and Muslims)... what's your point?
wwwexler| 2.18.10 @ 1:04AM
Projection is a pillar of atheistic marxist thought.
Douglas| 2.10.10 @ 4:05PM
This is what happens when we go to a third world country to help. We are blamed for crimes, harassed, suspected of attempted take overs and what have you. We have plenty of needs here. Stay at home and help right in your own backyard.
Let the savages keep their country and do with it as they may. We proudly took this land from savages and brought civilization and modernization. Now we will proudly turn it back. The people running our country will soon have us turned into the same trash heap that has become europe and eventually africa.
Jesse Nadel| 2.10.10 @ 4:21PM
These folks, whatever their intentions may have been, and whatever agreement they may have made with the childrens' parents, tried to take a bunch of children away from their parents, never to return, outside of their country, with absolutely no documentation of any sort whatsoever, and then act surprised when the government that represents the children cries foul. This is not just plain ordinary stupidity, it's intense, monumental stupidity that serves as an embarassment to stupid people! On top of it all, they do all this in another country with a different legal system, and expect Uncle Sam to magically rescue them from their self-inflicted troubles and in the process embarass and ridicule the Haitian government, which seems to be the only organization involved in this that has its priorities straight.
Look at it from the other side...suppose a bunch of Haitian voodoo priests had come to Missouri (I just picked a state at random), picked up some poor children, try to take them to 'safety' in Mexico and get stopped at the border with no passports or any other papers. We'd not consider releasing them for a second, and anyone who agreed to a request from the Haitian government for forgiveness would be laughed out of sight.
Amy| 2.10.10 @ 4:26PM
I'm sorry that I upset so many... I do actually feel awful for the rest of the Baptist missionaries. It's Laura Silsby that I just do not trust and I feel bad that the other people fell into that mess. I didn't come here to "lie." Everything that I wrote I have read elsewhere. Hopefully in time we'll all learn exactly what happened.
We do know that these "orphans" were not true orphans. First it was reported that about 2/3 of them had at least one living parent. Today I read one article that said that none of them were orphans (either way that's bad since Laura said they were there rescuing orphans from an orphanage). I also read an interesting article about how Laura tried to go find 3 Haitian siblings that an American couple was in the middle of adopting even though they told her to stay away from them (she showed up at the orphanage and claimed to be a relative of the American couple but fortunately for the American couple the kids had been moved to another location). After that Silsby went from orphanage to orphanage asking for children (they would not give her any). Why did she want Haitian kids so badly? I just don't trust her. At least if she gets plucked out of Haiti she can go face all her lawsuits here against her (she owes lots of people money).
David | 2.10.10 @ 5:07PM
Bam Bam is really disgusting with his arrogance and haughty manner. He is trying, and does, stick his nose into every aspect of our lives and comments on things that he should keep to himself. Then, when a situation that he should be intimately involved in such as American citizens being held prisoner while providing charity, the big wimp keeps his mouth shut. He has a serious problem recognizing what are and are not his reponsibilities.
All American help to the Haitians should stop until those obviously innocent people are released. If Bam Bam and his administration won't stop it, all American volunteers down there should let it be known there won't be any more help until their fellow American citizens are free.
Copyleft| 2.11.10 @ 9:20AM
That's an interesting approach to justice you have... "free the Americans because they're Obviously Innocent." Heck, why bother with trials and evidence and all that stuff? Just chec in with David to see if somebody's Obviously Guilty or Obviously Innocent.
Due process is just a huge waste of money anyway, right?
Geez, why is it that right-wingers are so outraged by the concept of the rule of law? Is it just because they know they don't stand a chance in a setting where reason and evidence matter more than hysterical shouting and screeching?
wwwexler| 2.11.10 @ 12:43PM
Go tell Eric Holder about the rule of law--it would be nice if he'd apply it to the armed Black Panther thugs who obstructed voting in Philadelphia.
wwwexler| 2.18.10 @ 1:05AM
Hey, where are ya, snarky LibReader/Copyleft?
No answers? lol
David| 2.10.10 @ 5:22PM
Hey Amy, didn't you read any of the other posts that point out it is common in thire-world countries for children to live in orphanes even though they have living parents because the parents cannot care for them. Don't you bother to consider that the parents voluntarily turned over their children to these people.
With regard to "reading other things about Laura Silsby", I don't trust any secular media source to report accurately on what Christians and their churches and organizations do. You say pro-Baptist group(s) are saying the same things. Why don't you name the group(s) and quote what they say.
Common sense dictates to me that those folks went to Haiti to help. With all of the children down there who need help, and with all of organizations having only limited resources, it doesn't make any sense to try to steal or take on any children or families that weren't in dire need of their assistance. As to the claim that Silsby was not going to let the parents see the kids, how can anyone possibly know that? They never made it to the DR and the parents had never requested see them and been denied that - is that correct?
Ken (Old Texican)| 2.10.10 @ 5:25PM
David,
I'm with you.
These stupid posters have no idea first hand what the third world is like. I hope they stay in the USA.
We will probably continue to coddle them here.
Tim| 2.11.10 @ 9:46AM
People haven't got any idea of what lies just outside the castle walls...
Kate| 2.10.10 @ 7:47PM
LOL
It's so bizarre to see these American posters claim that "innocent until proven guilty" means to set them free with no trial.
Meanwhile, America's still very busy kidnapping anyone guilty of "looking suspicious" and holding them indefinitely without lawyers, trials or even notifying their families.
Way to go, America.
Looks like the 10 will be home soon enough though.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/35.....arthquake/
Maybe you'll be able to focus some of your energy on demanding rights, lawyers and trials for the people your own government has kidnapped now.
.....I KID, of course! No one expects you to do that.
:)
injxo| 2.10.10 @ 8:25PM
Damn!!!!! Its all those kidnapped types that are putting a strain on our healthcare and educational infrastructure.....
BunkerBill| 2.10.10 @ 9:00PM
And, of course, there was no chance that these children would eventually end up up in America, to be raised in good God-fearing Christian families, well away from all them no-good Haitian Papists and devil worshipers.
leftist-screed-revisited| 2.10.10 @ 10:00PM
What is the exit strategy for Haiti?
We have been spending tens of billions of dollars in Haiti for decades, with nothing to show for it. Obama lied about how bad things were after the earthquake, since in point of fact conditions were almost equally as bad before. Obama also lied about the extent of how much we could ever help these people; we can spend billions more, and Haiti will still be a basket-case of a society.
We must approach this from a purely international standpoint, i.e., let the U.N. have complete control. It would be best if we started a dialogue with the international community about the possibility of beginning sanctions against Haiti if they continue to steal money and resources, continue to have a corrupt government, and continue to allow a society essentially run by armed gangs.
Instead, we squander precious resources in Haiti with no end in sight, resources and manpower that could be better spent on all the problems we have here at home.
Keeping all of this in mind, I say...
U.S. Out of Haiti !!!
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leftist-screed-re-revisited| 2.10.10 @ 10:22PM
...and furthermore, Obama has no coherent plan to extricate the U.S. from Haiti, and it is long past time that he formulate one. Is he just going to blindly declare at some random point, “Mission Accomplished”, but still remain there for the next fifty years?
The Haitians have every right to object to our so-called help, since as we all know, the Obama administration simply wants to take over Haiti so that corrupt multi-billionaires like George Soros can reap windfall profits.
Again I say...
U.S. Out of Haiti !!!
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Dr. Jim Garrow| 2.11.10 @ 9:57AM
It would appear that the State Department suddenly changes course when a need for intervention on behalf of a group of "Christians" is called for. The normal activity of the State Department is to immediately intervene and provide for the needs of any prisoner in a foreign land who is an American. It has something to do with the "rights" of American citizens. So why the sudden shift of policy? Or is this another way to put Christians on notice that they do not warrant the same protections as the rest of American society? It is a dangerous course that Ms. Clinton is allowing to be run and will blow up in her face. Be warned that the American people believe in fairness and the same justice for all citizens not just those who "speak the party line". You will pay a considerable price for your lack in giving American citizens what they have the right to expect, intervention by their country. You fail all of us by allowing this group of people to be treated as "less worthy" of the immediate intervention by the State Department. We will not forget.
Richard Baker| 2.11.10 @ 1:40PM
Hard to imagine that this is the country which once said, "Pedicaris Alive or Raisuli Dead" and which sent the Navy and USMC against the Barbary Pirates. Now we beg pretty-please for these pi**ant countries to leave Americans alone. TR and Mr. Jefferson are rolling in their graves.
Copyleft| 2.11.10 @ 2:39PM
Why would we expect ANY country to leave lawbreakers alone, American or otherwise?
(And by the way, who's been "begging" for such leniency? Sounds like it's the blind jingoists who are doing the begging.)
wwwexler| 2.18.10 @ 1:07AM
Typical leftist traitor--Blame America first.
Mike| 2.11.10 @ 3:01PM
I've never given a penny to any foreign country. I give $50.00 a week, and volunteer at our local soup kitchen. There are plenty of Americans hurting bad enough to warrant a helping hand from their fellow citizens.
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Amy| 2.11.10 @ 8:35PM
I'm still not sure what exactly some of you guys think I was lying about... Maybe Laura setting up an adoption vacation resort? Well here's a copy of that flyer that she had been passing around before her "mission." (You can skip to page two where it talks about the villas and cafes) http://www.esbctwinfalls.com/c.....ission.pdf
I'm sure that you guys have read in several articles that the parents of the kids were told that they would get to visit the kids (and the kids could visit them). Kind of hard to do if Silsby adopts them out, right?
Why did she break down and cry when Haitian orphanages would not hand over orphans to her? Well everything she dreamed up in that flyer would not come true. She would not only have made money off the adoption fees but the resort and cafe as well. She needed those kids.
And it is not being argued that Silsby did at first say that all the kids either were either from orphanages or handed over by distant relatives. But the truth came out that NONE were from orphanages and that all came from the same village and none were true orphans. How is that not a lie on Silsby's part? (I can point you guys in the direction of several articles that state they were not orphans from and orphanage and also articles concerning was Silsby first claimed but I don't think those points are being argues since they have been reported pretty much everywhere)
This was a woman in great debt and legal trouble who had hatched up another get rich scheme. She might have dragged down some people with her who had good intentions, but it's pretty clear to me that Silsby knew exactly what she was doing. I hope she still ends up paying for it somehow.
Pingback| 2.11.10 @ 8:44PM
Missouri budget director says schools won't get full funding … | Educational Missouri links to this page. Here’s an excerpt:
Marley Greiner | 2.11.10 @ 10:50PM
Those of us who work in adoptee civil rights and adoption reform know darn well that Silsby & Co were up to no good. They are liars, thieves, and kidnappers who olisen to the voices in their head. They were warned repeatedly not to take the children out of the country Orphanages slammed their door in their face. One orphanage director told CNN "it smelled like child trafficking." Silsby tried to remove the legally adopted children of an American couple out of an orphanage. The husband was in Haiti to get the children; his wife told Silsby three times to not interfere, but she went ahead and tried anyway. All of them (and there were more than 10 who went down) knew exactly what they were doing. They signed on to an agenda that was posted and linked on several websites. They are every adopted persons nightmare. They should rot rot rot.
mark| 2.12.10 @ 1:15AM
Why does anyone entertain comments made by this 'copyleft' clown. He makes me think of the play ground arguments back in grade school.
Copyleft| 2.12.10 @ 7:56AM
You overestimate them; so far, no one's been able to answer my arguments at all, other than resorting to childish insults.
But you're right... they're very entertaining!
wwwexler| 2.18.10 @ 1:08AM
You're too stupid to know you've been insulted! Ha!!
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Mike| 2.12.10 @ 7:52PM
Better to ignore leftists. They're arguments are rapidly becoming obsolete, and irrelevant.
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The Shadow| 2.14.10 @ 1:02AM
Holy Shit, its the Prowler! The guy wont sign his name to the shit he writes, who sees fear in the harps of all men. Go to bed now, fearsome little man.
Doo Wop| 2.14.10 @ 1:08AM
Do you support the rights of foreigners to come to the US and kidnap children? If not, shut the fuck up. I hope these people rot forever.
ralph| 2.14.10 @ 7:46AM
Did I miss something? Who and where is the U.S. consular in Haiti? That person or group is supposed to be helping American citizens arrested in foreign countries. But our policy is if you're arrested outside the U.S., you're subject to that country's laws and process.
Even good intentioned Christians are subject to the law. Given Haiti's circumstances at this time, I'm not surprised the conditions being faced by the missionaries are horrible. And how much is the American consulate able to realistically do within the confines of our laws?
ralph| 2.14.10 @ 7:50AM
Just want to add, it's a shame that the people who wanted to help were not given more information about what the worse case scenario might be. I hope they're able to return home soon.
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