Washington Prowler
Obama’s Miranda Madness
Or is it just cynicism behind the claim Abdulmutallab has been cooperating?
USELESS CYNICISM
A Senate Intelligence Committee staffer says that in recent
updates to the committee, and in briefing individual Senators,
national security and national intelligence officials have
indicated that they have gained “no actionable intelligence” from
interviews with the so-called “Christmas Day” or “underwear
bomber,” Umar Farouk Abdulmutallab. This, after
White House officials had told reporters that Abdulmutallab was
cooperating with law enforcement and national intelligence
officials, and that the information was helpful.
“The information they may have drawn out of him after his family arrived was probably more than a month old and there just wasn’t very much of it to begin with,” says the Senate staffer in relaying what his bosses were being told. “The Obama Administration has indicated that information they pulled from him on the night of the arrest may have been more helpful, but that intelligence was largely focused on his activities leading up to the attempted bombing.”
The Senate updates late in the week came after the White House held a briefing for reporters about the Abdulmutallab case early last week, making public the fact that the Department of Justice has allowed some of the man’s family into the country to encourage him to cooperate with federal law enforcement officials. Such a media briefing involving what the Department of Justice had indicated was an “ongoing national security matter” was considered unprecedented for an ongoing terrorism case.
The White House claimed the briefing was to “contextualize” the testimony and comments made earlier in the day before the Senate committee by Director of National Intelligence Dennis C. Blair, CIA Director Leon Panetta and FBI Director Robert Mueller. But after those comments were made public, the FBI requested that the White House not hold the briefing.
That press briefing was held anyway because it was intended, according one White House official, to quell the continued criticism of the Obama Administration’s handling of the Abdulmutallab case: the fact that the President chose not to speak about the attempted terrorist attack until more than 48 hours had passed, that senior Administration officials chose to essentially treat Abdulmutallab as a U.S. citizen and to provide him with Miranda rights, and to treat the case as a standard federal criminal case in Michigan.
“It’s one thing for someone to go out and say that we’re getting intelligence from someone like Sheik Mohammed,” says a former Federal Bureau of Investigation official. “It’s another to have what amounts to a propaganda event because you’re getting tired of being criticized in the media and you want the media to give inaccurate information to the American public.”
Adding to the confusions, U.S. Attorney General Eric Holder had announced that it was his decision alone to go the criminal justice route with Abdulmutallab, rather than the national security route. “No one here believes that,” says a Department of Justice attorney in the Criminal Division. “We all know Eric is falling on his sword for the guys up the street at the White House. Something this big doesn’t take place without input and final sign off from the Executive Office of the President.”
In a New Yorker interview, Holder continued to give the Obama Administration cover, saying, “What we did is totally consistent with what has happened in every similar case” since 9/11. “There’s a desire to ignore the facts to try to score political points. It’s a little shocking.” But current and former Department of Justice and National Security Agency officials dispute that claim, pointing out that over the past nine years, a vast majority of those cases involved either joint sting operations or arrests prior to any attempted acts of terrorism, and that in the case of foreign nationals on U.S. soil, different strategies were used to elicit intelligence.
“It’s one thing when you nab a U.S. citizen attempting to buy or sell Stinger missiles with the intent of committing a terrorist act. Or arresting a student from Dubai here on a visa who has been gathering intelligence for al Qaeda for a possible terrorist act,” says a former Department of Justice official. “It’s another when you have a guy who actually tried to blow up a plane, and had recent interaction with an increasingly influential wing of a terrorist network we’re trying to understand.”
On Sunday, the White House continued its attempts to downplay the solidifying impression that the President and his national security team are soft on terrorism. White House counterterrorism chief John Brennan said on Meet the Press that he had briefed four Republican congressional leaders on the bombing attempt, had informed them that Abdulmutallab was cooperating with the FBI, and that they were aware of the legal strategy the Administration would undertake moving forward.
“Our understanding was that it was a two-minute phone call,” says a House Republican staffer with ties to the Permanent Select Committee on Intelligence. “And to claim that call might have revealed a strategy moving forward would not be accurate by any stretch. When have these people proven they have a strategy about anything other than playing politics with everything they touch?”
The American Spectator is calling on President Obama to try Mr. Abdulmutallab under a military tribunal. Sign the Petition.
REQUIRED READING
Republican National Committee and state Republican Party leaders
were buzzing about a pamphlet being handed out during the party’s
Hawaiian winter meeting written by House Republican Policy
Committee Chairman Rep. Thaddeus
McCotter.
Entitled, “We the People: Wide Awake for Our Newest Birth of Freedom,” the pamphlet lays out a conservative philosophical roadmap for the 2010 election cycle.
“We got briefed on this program the party and the House and Senate Republicans are doing to come up with another Contract for America, with all the focus groups and polling and such,” says a state party representative from South Carolina. “Why waste all that money when you’ve got a something that maybe is a bit too wordy, but pretty much lays it out the way conservatives and Republicans think on the issues? I liked it, and the state party is going to use it.”
The policy committee posted the pamphlet on its website sometime before Christmas, and neither the committee nor McCotter have been promoting it.
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Pingback| 2.8.10 @ 6:17AM
Twitter Trackbacks for tcot #amspec Obama's Miranda Madness [spectator.org] on Topsy links to this page. Here’s an excerpt:
Bill Hussein O'Stalin| 2.8.10 @ 7:12AM
Obama's strategy (Or lack therof) is a "shout out" to terrorists to let them know it's still OK to attack Americans.
Kohl| 2.8.10 @ 3:21PM
When are we going to stop messing around with this Administration's lunacy? This president is on the road to impeachment! He's pandering to murder and terror. What will it take for REAL Americans to wake up? Another airliner crashing into a skyscraper? A rouge nuclear suitcase exploding in a city? He took an oath to defent the Constitution from enemies, foreign and domestic. As far as I can tell, he's an empty suit; empty of all that we value as REAL Americans! Whoever he is, I pray that he resigns as Nixon did in his moment of dishonor.
Nobama| 2.8.10 @ 4:05PM
Obama doesn't have any honor; Alinskyites see it as an obstacle to their goals.
Alan Brooks| 2.8.10 @ 8:13PM
"Whoever he is, I pray that he resigns as Nixon did in his moment of dishonor."
I think it is too early (shades of winter '94) to know what Obama will do after the midterms; but Nixon has been treated worse than any president. Now I see why he was rehabilitated: he was a decent person (unlike LBJ) in a bad situation.
Thomas Weaver| 2.8.10 @ 10:01PM
When pigs fly.
breeze| 2.9.10 @ 4:36AM
What we did is totally consistent with what has happened in every similar case
http://www.udtek.com/laptop-keyboard-c-3.html
Thomas Paine| 2.9.10 @ 10:06AM
Nice ad, jagawf.
The rest of this post would pose a question:
Is Islam protected by the First Amendment?
1. The Constitution is our fundamental law
2. Islam REQUIRES ("God said") Sharia law
3. Islam is therefore treason
4. Does the First Amendment "protect" a religious/social/legal doctrine, Islam, that aims to overthrow and replace the Constitution itself?
~Thomas
R GIVENS| 2.18.10 @ 7:31AM
"1. The Constitution is our fundamental law"
The Conservatives have a nerve claiming support for the Constitution after gutting the 4th Amendment etc to allow warrantless searches etc.
Almost all Patriot Act searches are done against American citizens having nothing to do with terrorism. So much for the Conservative preservation of the Constitution.
"2. Islam REQUIRES ("God said") Sharia law"
Right. And the Catholics preach infallibility of the Pope and use every means at their disposal to force their views on members and anyone else they can control. Anybody who thinks inquisitions are things of the past only needs to allow the Catholics the power to run an inquisition again and watch the blood begin to flow.
clifford wiesner| 2.9.10 @ 10:44AM
As my mother used to say "if everyone jumped off the bridge, would you too?" Repeating wrong decisions does not make it right. Don't forget, we didn't have the military tribunal process approved and in place when they caught the "shoe bomber"
A. Jurgensen| 2.18.10 @ 6:58AM
What are these American values you are talking about that Pres. Obama doesn't have? From what I can see the Right is right there sucking at the federal teat for that stimulus money. Furthermore, the Right adores Big Government contrary to what it SAYS: Perpetual war and Big Security money - both smacking of Big Government.
Ret. Marine| 2.8.10 @ 7:13AM
This is indeed and very dangerous game these two ( the pretender and AG) are playing with the life of the American Republic and those of us he swore an oath to protect and serve.
Brennan sits there Sunday morning and accusses the Republicans with playing politics over the issue. Right out of the marxist/progressive/commie/statis play book, accuse others with what you are guilty of. And of course a couple of weeks ago the spokesmouth of this Admin. sat there with C. Wallace and assured the entire Nation that they had gotton all the information they could get out of this terrorist before they mirandized him. Are you fricken kidding me, this bunch is going to get their arses handed back to them one day soon for aiding and abeiting the enemies of this Country. Damn I wish a serious adult would just write up the papers already. This is getting too dangerous to have these idiots keep blaming Mr. Bush and assigning lies to cover for their incompetence.
RAMIII| 2.8.10 @ 2:46PM
Ret. Marine,
They are projecting themselves this way because they have no capacity to believe that anyone COULD possibly really think differently than they do.
They are so completely enveloped by narcissism that it has consumed all rational thought.
Kohl| 2.8.10 @ 3:41PM
Thank you for your service to our country. In regard to this fool in the White House, we need the DoD to see that it is the final barrier to tyranny, as they took an oath as you to defend and protect the Constitution of the United States. The president can be courts-martialed for treasonous acts or for questionable behavior considered detrimental to the function of the office of commander-in-chief of the Armed Forces. Let a proper Military Court handle the decision. Hasn't anyone 'got a pair' anymore?
Marik| 2.8.10 @ 5:18PM
Ah, yes. Military dictatorships have such a record of devotion to freedom. But we don't need one. We have a plutocracy to keep us in place. Don't you worry.
Nobama| 2.8.10 @ 5:39PM
Yes, and the plutocrats are liberal elites.
Loadmaster| 2.8.10 @ 7:35AM
You will not here anything that remotely sounds like they "might have" made a mistake. This is not their style. When we get attached again (and we will) and if it results in Americans getting killed, someone needs to bring up charges against these guys. They have been warned and they should be held accountable. I will not tolerate any elected official that puts politics above our National Security and that goes for men in uniform who buckle under pressure from the WH.
Kohl| 2.8.10 @ 3:51PM
Should something happen, you can rest assure THEY will be on the FIRST plane out of the country to hide in some Euro-craphole country; probably where bin Laden has been since 9/11/01.
Missy| 2.8.10 @ 4:06PM
I've thought the same thing! Skunks.
martin j smith| 2.8.10 @ 8:07AM
The issue of the use of Politics in every issue no matter what is very evident in BHO's policies. And, it is his call and his alone. His robots do his bidding--that would mean Holder,Brennen etc. Even before the election it was clear that BHO was and is an ideologue, of a Socialist-Marxist variety. His associations do and did matter. Facts were ignored. Now, because of a buncxh of "feel good" "wanna beeeezzzz" that would mean independent voters voted for this guy look what we have. A mess !!And, BHO's foreign policy of appeasement and pacifism are getting us deeper in danger of being more not less vulnerable to an attack. Let me be very clear, I consider myself and Independent. I feel that GWB messed up in many areas including backpeddling on the war on terror. At the start he had the right idea. Then he played "lame duck" too well. But BHO is the president now and he has the responsibility no matter what he says. The idea of having terrorists in a civilian courts in NYC with miranda rights is the most obscene idea ( well one the most ) that I have ever head. And, I think the supreme idiots on the SCOTUS deserve blame for an any attack on this country. Bottom line the PEOPLE must oppose the use of civilian courts for any terrorists anywhere in our country period. And, hold BHO to account for any attack on our soil.
Melvin| 2.8.10 @ 8:07AM
This is the problem when we have a Constitutional Lawyer as President and a A.G. with a massive chip on his shoulder coupled with a dash of ignorance and bravado.
Copyleft| 2.8.10 @ 1:55PM
Yeah, what could be worse than a Constitutional lawyer in the office charged with upholding the Constitution?
Oh, wait....
Nobama| 2.8.10 @ 3:23PM
Will you still be spewing your inane DNC talking points if we get hit by terrorists again?
Sure, you'll just try to blame it on BOOOOOSH!
Copyleft| 2.8.10 @ 4:22PM
I guess I'm just not as scared as you.
Maybe the terrorists didn't beat me like they did you?
Nobama| 2.8.10 @ 5:17PM
OOOOOOH! Put up your dukes, big bad liberal!
Easy for you to talk tough when the U.S. Military is protecting your sorry hind end. Nitwits like you are the first to run and hide when trouble hits.
Marik| 2.8.10 @ 5:21PM
Your comments remind me of the Fifties wwhen we all trembled at the posibility of a nuclear death.
Fear is a stimulating emotion. Keep up the good work.
Nobama| 2.8.10 @ 5:38PM
Fear can also be useful for survival, unlike the denial you're exhibiting.
We don't trust you liberals--you lie! you're cowards and you're incompetent. Trifecta!
Thanks but no thanks.
Thomas Paine| 2.9.10 @ 10:00AM
Ha ha ho ....
Who would have thought ANYONE could have lost, squandered, the political damage the Republicans inflicted on themselves during the Bush years? OBAMA is truly a remarkable "man."
The good news is, the enema is scheduled for November. Following the (please, God) removal of as much Republican establishment as possible by Tea Partiers in the primaries, a Congress could actually be elected that corrects the reckless, feckless (Larry Summers just said "hyper-trophy" on tv, as in a gigantic sports award) Obama minions.
Still to be determined -- how can the new majority effect this change with Comrade O wielding a veto and demonizing from the 'prompter daily? This guy is best (and best kept) as a member of the opposition. I think the answer is deal with the moderate reforms - relatively clear reforms that can't be framed as "takeaways" by Spewbama - for two years, followed by the yeoman's work under President Thune....
~Thomas Paine
~ Libertarian, Optimist
Kohl| 2.8.10 @ 3:54PM
A living oxymoron?
Ken (Old Texican)| 2.8.10 @ 8:24AM
The sad thing
Is that a bunch more of American men, women, and children are going to be killed by terrorists before these communists, (pardon the shorthand),
are brought to account.
For those Americans killed, there will be no chance for "gosh I'm sorry" to matter.
Our elected communists are so busy plotting the overthrow of our constitution, that I often literally squirm thinking that they may actually welcome a horrendous attack on us to get the spotlight off of their plotting.
Marc Jeric| 2.8.10 @ 2:18PM
Right - no excuses needed. We do have a dedicated revolutionary marxist for President ("fundamental transformation of America"). Our Community Organizer-in-Chief, Abu Hussein from Kenya, has his system of local soviets in place (ACORN brownshirts, SEIU thugs, and teacher union bosses) ready to "perform the census", to register new voters (Democrats only, Republican registrations are thrown away), and to "vote" (dead people, felons, across state lines). They almost succeeded in Florida in 2000, and "elected" governor of Washington State and senator from Minnesota. His system of komissars as advisors in the White House is in place and functioning (so-called czars).
Marik| 2.8.10 @ 5:22PM
You don't sseem to know anything about the Constitution.
Go on. Tell us what "general welfare" means.
Tuco| 2.9.10 @ 5:43AM
Raising taxes on people like me to sustain dead-beats like you!
(Did I win any moonbat brownie points for coming up with the right answer??)
Louis Jenkins| 2.8.10 @ 9:15AM
Dear Old Texican, Retired Marine, and Loadmaster:
A few weeks ago I got lambasted as a troll (and lots of other dirty names) by Guardino for responding to an article he wrote along the same lines as this one. Essentially I posted, "Why do they (Pretender n Chief, Holder, etc.) want US citizens killed?" This is yet another article that gets closer to my point. Are they inviting another attack so they may yet take away more Constitutional Rights? "Citizens! Give up your rights for greater security." The truth is our lives, personal safety, and Constitutional Rights are the last item on their list, if there at all. They're more interested in giving those Rights to adjuncts of "Man made disasters." Somthing just ain't addin' up here.
LQQKY| 2.8.10 @ 9:35AM
It becomes more obvious every day why the dumocrats and MSM blaspheme the Tea Party movement in general and Sarah Palin in particular. They are afraid for their futures if we get our way and restore The Constitution and our Representative Republic!
Marik| 2.8.10 @ 5:24PM
"Representative Republic"? Throughout our history, the people who have representatives have been the plutocrats
Ken (Old Texican)| 2.8.10 @ 11:35AM
Louis,
heh. I might debate you on some things, but never would consider you a troll.
You have written some fine posts here.
Tim| 2.8.10 @ 12:48PM
Hopefully people are waking up, otherwise one day soon the Superbowl will be a soccer match.
Robert Pinkerton| 2.8.10 @ 1:28PM
When I was younger (I was born in 1944.) most Americans believed the Soviet Union would be the enemy in the next world war. As that was so, I devoted a share of my recreational reading to the USSR as a topic; now this was in no way systematic, but it convinced me of a few planks in my personal gauge of political platforms. The real National Treasure of this country is the L I B E R T Y guaranteed by Amendmend VIII (No cruel and unusual punishment: Compare that with the way the USSR perpetrated the archetypal Nazi atrocity upon Oleg Penkovskii, Pyotr Popov, and the Gods only know how many other victims.), Amendment V (Not only guaranteeing security of property, but most importantly "... no man shall be compelled to be witness against himself..." Confessional jurisprudence, stock-in-trade of e.g. the "Holy(?) Inquisition" right down to the KGB, is IMHO nothing less than the vilest abomination mankind has ever created, Amendment II (Civilian disarmament is the harbinger of indecent designs on other liberties.), Amendment I, and the extremely narrow definition of treason embodied in Article III section 3 of our Constitution (Compare that with Article 64a of the Russian Soviet Federative Republic's criminal code.) By whatever Gods anyone here might worship, these are worth holding and worth defending to the last breath, because these make this country a worthwhile inheritance to pass along to future generations. (The economy, circulatory system of the body politic, is only secondary to these IMHO, where too many in both parties want to turn the entire citizenry into short-range tunnel-vision-mono-maniacal economo-maniacs.)
From that perspective, the terrorists of any stripe win when they have caused, however indirectly, abrogation, or even infringement, of any of these rights.
Endnote: To sum up Christopher Lasch's The True and Only Heaven, a history of American "Progressivism" from before independence on, it is narrowing the power of the people, tiny increments at a time, as over against the State and its "experts(?)."
Robert Pinkerton| 2.8.10 @ 1:51PM
In my inventory of National Treasure supra I forgot to include Amendment IV (Security against search and seizure). It is ont an iota less important than any of the others.
Missy| 2.8.10 @ 4:09PM
Progressive "EVOLUTION" not Revolution, right?
Marik| 2.8.10 @ 5:26PM
It's refreshing to see a poster who actually seems to have read the Constitution, as opposed to those who simply cry out, "We've got to save it!!!"
Nick| 2.8.10 @ 11:29PM
Marik,
Yeah, because you know so much about the constitution! Ha-ha-ha!
SoCon| 2.8.10 @ 3:26PM
Yes, Louis--but a lot of your blogger friends here defended you, remember?
As I recall, we took a few well deserved swipes at Guardino, too!
Louis Jenkins| 2.8.10 @ 5:10PM
Yes you did. And I appreciated it much. I thought for a moment when reading Guardino's comments I really was a kook but your support came through. Honestly, I try to read as many of the comments as possible and sometimes pick up a gem here and there. Keep it up guys. The difference can be made one person at a time.
Pingback| 2.8.10 @ 9:22AM
The American Spectator : Obama's Miranda Madness links to this page. Here’s an excerpt:
Pingback| 2.8.10 @ 9:22AM
The American Spectator : Obama's Miranda Madness links to this page. Here’s an excerpt:
Jack| 2.8.10 @ 10:10AM
There have been 3 terrorist attacks on US soil since 911,all in the past year. Figure it out. Obamas does not understand appeasement empowers our enemies and increases their hatred of us,because he is completely ignorant of most world history.
michunter| 2.9.10 @ 1:42PM
How many people died in those attacks? Zero, if I recall. The two major attacks that occurred while Bush was in charge (9/11 and the anthrax mailing) took quite a few more. Never did catch the perps on those...but we did kill about a million Iraqi and Afghan civilians before Obama took office. Oh, and about that Patriot Act that remove so many 4th and 5th Amendment Protections. Wasn't that under Bush and his Republican Congress also?
wwwexler| 2.9.10 @ 2:22PM
Wee Willie Clinton took Obama's law enforcement approach to Islamic terrorism and we took the hit for his stupidity with the destruction of two of our embassies, the bombing of the USS Cole and September 11, 2001.
Bush treated these attacks as acts of war and we weren't hit again until 12/25/2009--under Obama's watch. Only a moron or a radical ideologue wouldn't see the obvious.
You liberals can't be trusted with our National Security--and you know it. We sure do.
NavyBrat| 2.8.10 @ 11:54AM
I've been podering what type of attack the jihadis would undertake to create the maximum terror effect. While the threat to airplanes, ports, & nuke plants are always the "biggies," there are far easier targets. One word comes to mind. BESLAN. I shudder to think of something like that happening here, & I think we all know that the jihadis didn't shelve the blueprints for a plan like that.
If, G*d, forbid, that were to happen, I can see Nero & his minions trying to pawn it off on Bush, as usual. This time will be different, though. Different in that even the most die-hard Obama water carrier would have a hard time getting any normal person to buy into that line of BS.
Nick| 2.8.10 @ 12:12PM
NavyBrat,
I, too, have thought about Beslan and similar plans that would only take several well armed terrorists to kill dozens, perhaps hundreds. Why they didn't after the attacks of September 11th, or since, I don't know.
It has occured to me, though, that it might be that they are convinced we are a well armed populace that wouldn't sit by passively while they took over one of our schools.
They must have seen news reports of ordinary Americans stopping killers on a rampage. It might be too much of a risk to have a bunch of trained jihadis killed by a bunch of Joe Sixpacks.
I pray this is the case.
Kohl| 2.8.10 @ 4:09PM
It's only because we have a seperation of power in law enforcement intel in the 50 States thru municipal, county, regional, State and Federal plus the vigilance of the People that probably deters these kind of terror attacks. Plus the fact that killing innocent children in this country would only strengthen our resolve to capture and kill terrorists before they kill us. In the Middle East, life is cheap. In the U.S. believe it or not, life is still valued above all else. This MIGHT be the reason(s) we've been spared such attacks.
Marik| 2.8.10 @ 5:29PM
I've often wondered why a terrorist doesn't simply set off a large bomb while people were waiting in line to go through the TSA checkpoints in the airports.
That would make a statement, huh?
Lullaby's, Legends and Lies| 2.8.10 @ 7:24PM
Hey Troll: I hope you're standing in that line, when it does go off.
And why don't you tell us what "general welfare" means to you? We'd all love to hear it.
Drew | 2.8.10 @ 11:59AM
More misinformation and nonsense from American Spectator.
To begin with, Richard Reid - the "shoebomber" - was Mirandized and given access to an attorney. He was also tried and convicted, and is currently sitting in maximum security prison - a place from which he is unlikely to ever emerge alive.
Secondly, this concern about a suspect - even a terrorist suspect - being "lawyered up" is absurd. Cops might be concerned about a lawyer preventing a suspect from offering a confession. Do you think that we need a confession to convict the Christmas bomber? With probably dozens of eyewitnesses, plus the physical evidence - no we don't need a confession.
Giving the guy access to a lawyer is only going to INCREASE the chance that we get useful information, because a lawyer is going to explain that cooperation is in his clients best interests.
WAKE UP| 2.8.10 @ 2:08PM
Drew, he's the ENEMY, not a street punk.
Copyleft| 2.8.10 @ 2:35PM
Actually, until he's convicted, he's a SUSPECT.
That pesky ol' Constitution is really a nuisance sometimes, isn't it?
Nobama| 2.8.10 @ 3:59PM
No matter how many times you close your eyes, hold your breath and whine the Constitution still doesn't apply to foreign enemy combatants, so no, it's not a nuisance at all.
You liberals are.
Marik| 2.8.10 @ 5:31PM
Aren't the rights granted in the Constitution "inalienable" and weren't they granted by the Creator?
I guess maybe not, huh? No Creator, do you think? No such thing as "inalienable"? That your idea?
Nobama| 2.8.10 @ 5:55PM
Rights granted to WHOM, libtard?
You're embarrassing yourself.
Nick| 2.8.10 @ 11:27PM
Marik,
That would be the Declaration of Independence, professor.
You must have received your degree in ConLaw from the same box of Cracker-Jacks as President Dither.
Any other pearls of wisdom you would like to share?
WAKE UP| 2.8.10 @ 6:24PM
It's OUR Constitution, dumbass, not his, and he has no right of access to it.
NavyBrat| 2.8.10 @ 2:35PM
Pssst. Hey Drew. Reid was tried in civilian court b/c the Military Tribunal system hadn't been set up yet. It was in the process of being held up by liberals. Just saying...
JHB76| 2.8.10 @ 2:58PM
Actually Reid never went to trial as he pled guilty to all eight charges against him. One of the reasons for setting up the tribunal system for terrorists was the Reid case.
Kohl| 2.8.10 @ 4:32PM
Another idealist. All we need remember is: 09/11/01. No time for arrests, lawyers, courts, Mirada, Gitmo, eyewitnesses, confessions, evidence, useful information, cooperation, TV interviews, survivors. Just death! Dead people in a burning building, widows, widowers, orphaned children, dead children, burning children, burning mothers and fathers; all just dead!
But THEY have rights, too! Yes, Mr. Idealist believes in RIGHTS for ALL! The terrorist's must have RIGHTS first. It's just too bad for all those who had to die. Mr. Idealist knows what's BEST for all of us.
Larsen E Whipsnade| 2.8.10 @ 8:21PM
Drew @ 2.8.10 11:59AM: "Giving the guy access to a lawyer is only going to INCREASE the chance that we get useful information, because a lawyer is going to explain that cooperation is in his clients best interests. "
Uh, Drew, what if he doesn't want to cooperate, like the underpants bomber? If he just wants to clam up for the next 50 years? Then what?
Pingback| 2.8.10 @ 12:24PM
The American Spectator : Obama's Miranda Madness links to this page. Here’s an excerpt:
Pingback| 2.8.10 @ 12:24PM
The American Spectator : Obama's Miranda Madness links to this page. Here’s an excerpt:
Pingback| 2.8.10 @ 12:43PM
The American Spectator : Obama's Miranda Madness : PlanetTalk.net - Learn the truth links to this page. Here’s an excerpt:
Pat| 2.8.10 @ 12:45PM
Poor Obama, this entire underwear bombing affair has been a continuous nightmare, the kind of nightmare where you desperately want to wake up but are constantly pulled back into the fear filled images of your bad dream. Everyone, including Obama's pom-pom girls in the mainstream media, are questioning the Feds ability to take on terrorism head to head - at this point, the Feds look like the nerds, the terrorists are the aggressive, bullying jocks and the boys in the Justice Dept. and FBI are walking around with permanent wedgies.
They read Abdullafruitoftheloom his rights, he then promptly lawyered up, the FBI got its 15 minutes of fame with the ACLU and their 5,000 paying contributors, but it would have been better to claim they interrogated him without mercy and then admit that EL Crotchfire didn't really know anything of value - would you have told this incompetent twit of a bomber anything more than he needed to know?
And the Great Show Trial of Khalid Muhammed is going nowhere fast - Obama and Holder keep delaying naming the trial's venue for political reasons. New York City doesn't want to be a target for terrorists by hosting the trial, they've already had their turn in the barrel. But then who gets the consolation prize of playing host to a terrorist's trial, with all the danger that implies? And what does that say about your town if you get the nod from Justice? That New York City is too valuable to risk and more important than your lovely community? Sure, you can fill up every motel within 50 miles of Huntsville, Alabama or Bad Axe, Michigan with members of the media paying full rates while they cover the trial, but do you want your wife and kids to be walking targets?
If only terrorists were wusses like the Republicans, then Obama's handlers would know what to do and how to react to them - but the terrorists aren't making it easy for them, they don't respond to the usual name calling and snide insults by the New York Times - they don't even read the Times' Op-Ed page . Pity.
Marc Jeric| 2.8.10 @ 2:28PM
How about trial of jihadis by "a jury of their peers"? What peers? Other jihadis? Of course all potential jurors whose family members were murdered on 9/11 are excluded by the ACLU lawyers, then those jurors whi had friends or acquaintences among victims, also those who heard about 9/11 as potentially influenced against the defendents. So who is left?
Pat| 2.8.10 @ 3:37PM
Marc, good point - who is left? Americans are often the innocent victims of our own laws, granting full Constitutional rights to terrorists is how we got here in the first place, the 9/11 report explained how the FBI followed all the guarantees written into our "Living Constitution", the terrorists followed all the instructions within the "Terrorist Handbook", the planes were successfully hijacked and the buildings came down. And New York City's civic Fathers and Mothers are apparently unwilling to bet on the Constitution a second time around.
And notice that Washington D. C. wasn't the city immediately chosen to be a "showcase" of American Justice in action - that's one of those "not in my backyard" reactions Washington politicians always condemn when it's someone else's backyard. But, our D. C. legal experts will get around your valid point with some judicial hocus-pocus rationalizing contaminated jury pools and judges who should recuse themselves since they already know all the facts that will be brought in evidence and can't remain impartial. Besides, judges probably aren't rushing forward to preside over the New York trial of Sheikh Muhammed, it could be hazardous to their long-term health - so, recusing yourself can't be permitted.
Suspect Holder was going to treat Khalid Muhammed's trial like one of those Stalin era show trials in the former Soviet Union, everyone always knew the verdict in advance of the trial, but the show was too good to pass up.
michhunter| 2.9.10 @ 1:49PM
As long as the KSM trial is accompanied by federal dollars to hire local security people and compensate closed businesses, we'll hold it here in Detroit. We could use the money. Ted Nugent can be in charge of security with his Fred Bear bow.
Jim O'Brien| 2.8.10 @ 1:05PM
Obama is giving aid and comfort to the enemy, so he is guilty of treason.
Copyleft| 2.8.10 @ 1:57PM
Since he's doing exactly what Bush did in the exact same situation, I assume you want Gee Dubya executed as well.
WAKE UP| 2.8.10 @ 2:06PM
Copyleft, if that absurd statement lets you avoid facing current reality, okay - but, look out, reality bite coming. You can share it with Obama.
Copyleft| 2.8.10 @ 2:34PM
Fantasy: "Obama is reading a terror suspect his rights, an unprecedented show of weakness."
Reality: Bush did the same thing with the shoe bomber.
Fantasy: "Obama's giving the guy a trial in civilian courts, which Bush would never have done."
Reality: Bush did.
Next?
Nobama| 2.8.10 @ 3:31PM
The Military Tribunal system HAD NOT been set up yet, Commieleft.
Why debate the facts when you can ignore them, right, troll?
Your Bush Derangement Syndrome is both amusing and disturbing. We should set up a hotline for liberals like you. lol
Margie| 2.8.10 @ 4:17PM
"Your Bush Derangement Syndrome is both amusing and disturbing. We should set up a hotline for liberals like you. lol"
~VERY funny! Although this would be the perfect new government program. Divert some stimulus funds to good use for once. Conservatives could man the phones and convert these mentally ill souls to reality, if possible.
WAKE UP| 2.8.10 @ 6:39PM
What bugs me is that when the shit hits, Copyleft will still want (a) our miltary to protect him while (b) blaming Bush at the same time, and (c) ignoring the uncomfortable reality that Obama's election made it inevitable.
Ferals sense weakness, and right now the ferals out there (from the Copenhagen committee to the desert -heads) have Obama figured for the useful idiot he is. NEVER has America appeared so weak to the world than it has in the past year of this fool Pretender President. NOBODY out there respects him .
The other thing Copyleft don't get is that the ENEMY don't know that he too is a useful idiot, and he's gonna be in as big a hole as those of us who are trying to stop it NOW. Traitor . Coward.
Jim O'Brien| 2.8.10 @ 2:18PM
Impeachment by the House, trial by the Senate. Unless of course BHO lets the terrorists destroy the Capitol first, and then his trial might be in Manhattan. Unless of course BHO lets the terrorists render NYC uninhabitable with a dirty (radioactive) bomb, and then his trial might be at Fort Hood, TX.
LarryG| 2.8.10 @ 1:20PM
The entire organization is two tiers above their Peter Principle level of incompetence. Keystone Kops with Three Stooges running the Police station. Anyone remember a country called Rhodesia? What happened to them? It's happening here. Sweet.
R Givens | 2.8.10 @ 1:45PM
Those who deny rights to others end up losing them for themselves. How do I know?
Because history shows that more German citizens were persecuted by the Gestapo and the SS from 1944 on than those the Nazis hated. After 1943 the slightest criticism of Hitler et al could result in a trip to a concentration camp.
Security got so far off the rails that Hitler came within an inch or two of getting himself killed in 1944 because Himler, Goering et al could not keep a lid on growing resistance to Nazism in their own ranks.
Harsh rulership is always a sign of weakness.
Just remember that every bit of the Bill of Rights that is ignored for others will also be ignored for you when your turn comes.
Nobama| 2.8.10 @ 3:56PM
Who decided that our Bill of Rights applied to foreign enemy combatants? You?
Wee Willey Clinton thought just like you, Givens--and guess what 3000 Americans got for Clinton's dereliction of duty? Remember?
You liberal morons never learn: "If you ignore the lessons of history, you are doomed to repeat it."
We'll be damned if we're going to sit by and watch you fools drive us off a cliff--again!
R GIVENS| 2.9.10 @ 8:48AM
There are Treaties that give rights to enemy combatants. Whatever you do to your prisoners can and will be done to your soldiers if they are captured. Right now the enemy doesn't have the capacity to take many prisoners, but that could change in future combat and then the tears begin.
If anybody drove the country into the ditch it was the Bush-Cheney crew. Where do you think the current economic woes come from, but mismanagement. Clinton left these idiots with a surplus for the first time I can ever remember, but that doesn't suit right-wing money grubbers who want to break our government.
Bush-Cheney started a war based on a pile of lies and that is TREASON by definition.
Stop and think for a minute. These guys never saw a single day of combat. In fact, they were "draft dodgers" (in Cheney's case) or more accurately in Bush's case a "combat avoider."
The 911 attack saved Bush from impeachment for his involvement in the Enron scandal. (Many of Bush's appointments came from Enron and he was involved with Ken Lay etc. A storm that would have driven Bush out of office or made him a one term president was brewing and 911 saved his ass.)
Nobama| 2.9.10 @ 1:47PM
The Jihadists already cut our soldiers' heads off, moron--how much worse could it be for us?
Do you liberals ever listen to yourselves? The stupidity that rolls out of your mouths is stupefying--and you can't even see it. You're all crazy--why would I ever entrust my family's security to delusional idiots like you?
Scratch the surface of any loony troll and Bush Derangement Syndrome spews out.
Sorry, clown, your liberal BS AIN'T gonna help you out in November 2010 or 2012! Not this time.
Mark the dates, we sure as hell have. lol
R GIVENS| 2.12.10 @ 12:37PM
Nobama wrote: "why would I ever entrust my family's security to delusional idiots like you?"
The guy you trusted never made hunting down terrorists a priority. Instead of going after Al Queda in Afghanistan where they live, Bush made up a wad of lies WMDs to justify attacking Iraq where it was impossible for Bin Laden to operate.
Notions that Saddam Hussein had anything to do with Osama Bin Laden find no evidence that such a thing ever happened.
Once we stop to think that Hussein put a death penalty on opposing political parties, it becomes clear that no Al Queda agents were never allowed in Iraq under his rule. Or didn't you know that Al Queda has a revolutionary platform that calls for ending the current rule in many Muslim countries.
Any half-baked CIA agent could have educated Bush to the real situation vis a vis a Bin Laden/Hussein connection.
Knowing this Bush-Cheney created a batch of lies about WMDs and other baseless accusations to justify attacking Iraq.
Just for the record leading the country into a phony war is TREASON.
Nobama| 2.16.10 @ 2:39AM
Whatever, libtard. G. W.'s post 9/11 national security policies kept us safe for 8 1/2 years--until Obama, another clown democrat came in and screwed things up.
Obama and Clinton both pursued terrorism as law enforcement matters--and both are responsible for multiple terrorist attacks on our country.
You can't argue with success and GW was successful.
If Bush is guilty of treason so are all of the crappy democrats who voted to go into Iraq, bonehead.
WAKE UP| 2.8.10 @ 6:41PM
R Given: HOW MANY TIMES? It's OUR Constitution and it's not an option for an alien enemy. What he gets instead is 72 virgins.
Lullaby's, Legends and Lies| 2.8.10 @ 8:14PM
I'll get this out of the way up front, Bush was wrong for trying "any" of these terrorist in civilian court, after 9/11 (when we were obviously at War). He ignored the history of the U.S. being at War, and how enemy combatants should be handled, and he shouldn't have. It was a mistake, that I'm sure he regrets now, and President Obama shouldn't follow his mistake.
As an example of what he should have done, and what President Obama should do, just look up what FDR did to the two teams of German saboteur's who landed in New York. I'll give you a hint, it involved military tribunals, and 6 of the 8 captured Germans, well, in the end they were executed. No trial by their peers, just the tribunal, and then death. Look it up, it's called history. It must suck to wake up everyday, being a Liberal?
LiveFreeOrDie| 2.8.10 @ 11:12PM
"It must suck to wake up everyday, being a Liberal?"
No, because ignorance is bliss.
F Krautner| 2.8.10 @ 2:06PM
It is curious to see that the "dumbing down of America" has proceed to such an extent among the Conservatives who devised the strategy.
If any of you Wahoos studied any real history, you'd know that during WWII Allied Intelligence officers broke almost every case hardened Nazi airman and soldier they interrogated without ever laying a hand on them.
They got more info with a pack of cigarettes and courteous treatment than any amount of beating could have accomplished.
By engaging in clever conversation and keeping close track of everything the prisoner said they soon had all of the info about unit strength, battle plans, operational difficulties and anything else they wanted to know.
Waterboarding a tough SS trooper would have got phony info and word would go back to the enemy insuring a more difficult time getting info and guaranteed bad treatment for Allied prisoners. The facts are clear that mistreating prisoners to get information is a losing proposition.
Nazi interrogators who did not hesitate to use any cruelty they could devise, got very little useful info from Allied POWs. Many resisted to their deaths.
Those who seek to use fists instead of brains in gathering information are doomed to lose.
Nobama| 2.8.10 @ 3:35PM
Sorry, Krautner; you're entitled to your own opinion, but you're NOT entitled to your own facts--even if you're a liberal.
KSM gave up much actionable intelligence that saved many American lives--after he was waterboarded.
You have to have a brain first in order to use it.
Kohl| 2.8.10 @ 4:55PM
Your just a goddamed fool. You don't think that the CIA would use soft tactics to extract information before anything harsh was considered? Israelis' in the '70's, to extract intel from terrorist in the West Bank and Gaza would threaten them to "sit it out" in a 'Palestine' prison full of common Arab criminals, should their information prove untrue. We don't torture prisoners in the IDF or the U.S. Military. Neither does the CIA. So, yeah...a pack of smokes goes a long way. Why don't you shut up?
WAKE UP| 2.8.10 @ 6:44PM
Krautner: it's not about techniques, it's about OUR Constitution. Repeat: OUR. It's not his. He can, however, claim his 72 virgins if he wishes.
F Krautner| 2.9.10 @ 8:26AM
In case you missed it WE lost a big chunk of OUR Bill of Rights with the "Patriot Act." The 4th Amendment is gone.
If you trust politicians and government agents to always have respect for YOUR rights, don't be surprised when you end up like Hitler's Good Little Germans with the state going against YOU.
If the idea is to get ACCURATE info, the iron glove is a bad choice.
The idea that torture could expedite an "emergency" situation is especially foolhardy. Most Arab terrorists could probably withstand many hours of bad treatment before giving up anything worthwhile. They are probably trained to give misleading information that makes their attack a success.
Nobama| 2.9.10 @ 1:51PM
Baloney. We did get accurate information, that's why the Library Tower in Los Angeles wasn't blown to bits with more thousands of Americans being slaughtered. You're full of crap, as usual.
WAKE UP| 2.11.10 @ 3:07AM
Krautner: we can argue about the 4th and every other facet of OUR Constitution as long as we like; that's OUR business. The point at issue remains, which is : the alien NON-AMERICAN terrorist Admullatab has NO RIGHTS to it. Stick to the topic.
-----------------------
(PS: I'll take our battered and bleeding Constituition over 72 virgins any day).
Gerald Stephens| 2.8.10 @ 2:07PM
DEFINITION:
Obama, recently discovered pernicious fatal disease.
ONLY KNOWN CURE: IMPEACHMENT
Geese the wheels for use in the post November congress.
Gerald Stephens
Hartford, CT
MaviGozler | 2.8.10 @ 2:17PM
This is all very humorous to me. The absurdity (= absence of logic) of the right wing, which obviously takes in the Spectator staff and much of the readership, on this issue is unbelievably laughable. On the website of American Patriots an article was posted which expressed in terms even that even a junior high schooler could understand why terrorism is a crime and has always been treated as a crime. Read it yourselves:
http://mavigozler.awardspace.info/terrordef.html
Of course, I do concede that it is impossible to overcome a determined effort at stupidity, and so I really have little hope of persuading many Bush/Cheney acolytes who jump to the link tht terrorism really is an act of crime and not an act of war.
Marc Jeric| 2.8.10 @ 2:32PM
Here is a perfect example of a total cretin calling us names and using invectives as arguments. But I, a refugee from a communist hell, know well your kind - a perfect recruit for a Gulag guard.
MaviGozler | 2.8.10 @ 2:46PM
"...perfect example of a total cretin calling us names..."
Of course, pointing out the irony would be purposeless, given that you are beyond pathetic.
It is enough to say that you have become that you (allegedly) hate.
Nobama| 2.8.10 @ 3:42PM
Listen to Marc Jeric; he speaks from experience. He escaped Communist tyranny many years ago and he knows that hatred and contempt for the American people come from elitist leftists like you.
You and your ilk are a threat to our lives.
MaviGozler | 2.8.10 @ 7:32PM
Hmmm, from beyond pathetic to beyond insane.
There would not be much disagreement as to the method of putting you out of your misery if you were a horse.
But then, you are clearly not a horse, are you? A horse's ass, without question, but not a horse.
Nobama| 2.9.10 @ 2:07PM
We'll be putting you liberal horses' asses out of OUR misery in November.
Can't wait--save the date! November 2, 2010.
RAMIII| 2.8.10 @ 2:42PM
A crime under which system of "laws" and which sovereign nation?
crime
–noun
1. an action or an instance of negligence that is deemed injurious to the public welfare or morals or to the interests of the state and that is legally prohibited.
Gerald Stephens| 2.8.10 @ 2:21PM
As my truly sainted mother would exclaim when confronted with a perilous moment, "Sweet bloody Jesus on the Cross, HELP us."
Gerald Stephens
Hartford, CT
Mike| 2.8.10 @ 2:51PM
All this talk of Obama being a wuss and a pansy because the feds Mirandized the underwear bombe is interesting. Actually the real wusses and pansies are those conservatives that want to shred the constitution in a pathetic attempt to gain "permanent security".
When did Americans, especially conservatives, becomes such frightened rabbits? We are afraid of our own shadow and just like frightened animals we lash out at the nearest object. On a national scale, the Iraq fiasco is a good example of this.
The panty bomber is a criminal. Just like Tim McVeigh, just like the Unabomber. He is accorded rights as a person (no citizenship required for that) under our constitution and should be treated as such.
All of you conservatives need to grow a pair.
Nick| 2.8.10 @ 3:25PM
Mike,
You must have received your degree in ConLaw from the same box of Cracker-Jacks that President Dither did. I'm not implying that I do have such a degree. But I know enough to know you don't have any comprehension of the U.S. Constitution.
Terrorists commit WAR CRIMES, not felonies. They are making and levying war on mostly civilians.
Don't bring up President Bush, either. I have written numerous posts explaining how the Bush administration hasn't handled these terrorists correctly. They should have been tried, convicted, and summarily executed.
Preferably by hanging.
Nobama| 2.8.10 @ 3:44PM
Mike probably got the same grades, too. No wonder our Affirmative-Action POTUS has never released his grades.
Bill| 2.8.10 @ 4:05PM
Just a hint: You don't get elected to the Harvard Law Review and graduate magna cum with F's.
Nobama| 2.8.10 @ 4:16PM
But you NEVER answer our simple question: "If Obama's grades were so freakin' spectacular, why won't he release his transcripts?"
Hmmmm?
If he really got good grades in school he would've plastered them all over the internet years ago. The Teleprompter wonder is certainly not shy about tooting his own horn.
Nice try, but your effort failed.
Bill| 2.8.10 @ 5:13PM
This is how ridiculous the right's arguments are: A person graduates magna cum laude from Harvard Law, goes on to teach Constitutional Law and you wonder what kind of grades he got in college. BTW, I wonder what kind of grades Sarah Palin ever got? I guess we'll find out when she's the nominee for YOUR party in 2012. Good luck with that.
Nobama| 2.8.10 @ 5:23PM
Nice try, Bill, but you need to focus. Refute my post about Obama's grades then you can bring up Sarah Palin's , okay?
You know Obama was an Affirmative Action student--be brave and admit it!
Bill| 2.8.10 @ 6:45PM
Magna Cum Laude. Harvard Law. That's Obama.
"I can see Russia from my house". That's Palin.
BrianMc| 2.9.10 @ 6:56AM
Bill,
You either need to research your quotes in which you refer, or you are in post-graduate studies at the Joseph Goebbels National Training Center for Profund Erudition and Repetition. My second assumption is based upon your liberal use of quotation marks.
Just a piece of advice...whatever happened in your youth, get over it.
wwwexler| 2.9.10 @ 2:30PM
"I can see Russia from my house." That's TINA FEY ON SNL, moron.
You're embarrassing yourself again. You must be used to it.
wwwexler| 2.8.10 @ 4:22PM
Man, that's rich! A Beta Male liberal telling Conservatives to grow a pair.
What would you know about balls, libtard? lol
Garry Owen| 2.8.10 @ 3:16PM
Have we forgotten our history. Nazis sent to disrupt America during WWII were exicuted after their capture. Why not the same for a foreign subject who tried to destroy a plane load of Americans. Patton got it right: Wars are won by making the other dumb *** die for his country.
Ken (Old Texican)| 2.8.10 @ 4:00PM
Folks,
We are going to see more and more of these Obama "covert ops" guys here under any number of screen-names.
Be alert to their foolishness. Laugh at them, de-bunk them when you have time, but don't think for a moment that they are merely "trolls".
They are not!
They are paid to confuse and distract.
Might as well get used to it until we get a constitutionalist government back.
Bill| 2.8.10 @ 4:01PM
Bush gave terrorists civilian trials in Virginia and locked them in U.S. prisons. What's the difference?
Missy| 2.8.10 @ 4:19PM
If you had read the above posts you'd know the answer: Military Tribunals had NOT been set up yet. Obama has no excuse, he's incompetent.
Next DNC talking point?
Nice trolling.
Nick| 2.8.10 @ 4:22PM
Bill,
The difference is that we all know President Bush wanted to fight the terrorists. President Dither, we're not so sure about.
Also, GWB shouldn't have tried them in Criminal courts. They should've been tried by military commissions, convicted, and hanged.
Bill| 2.8.10 @ 5:06PM
If he didn't want to fight terrorism then why did he just commit 30,000 more troops to Afghanistan?
Nobama| 2.8.10 @ 5:25PM
We were talking about Obama's DOMESTIC anti-terrorism tactics, remember?
Short term memory loss.
Nick| 2.8.10 @ 6:59PM
If he wanted to fight terrorism why didn't he send the 60,000 troops Gen. McCrystal requested?
F Krautner| 2.9.10 @ 7:04PM
If Bush wanted to go after Bin Laden, why did he attack Iraq? Instead of going after terrorists, he started a wrongheaded war against Saddam Hussein.
Hussein never allowed any political party except his own to exist. Any al-Qaeda caught in Iraq would have been sent home in little pieces. Keep in mind that Bin Laden's policies were opposed to Hussein.
Bush was in such a dither that he thought no one would notice he was after the wrong enemy.
After Desert Storm, Hussein knew better than get into a fight with the US. Moreover he knew that he would be hanged at the end of another conflict with the US. That's why Hussein wasn't even dreaming of getting any WMDs.
What are you so uncertain about. Obama is finally going after al-Qaeda where they really live. Bush never stepped up to the plate where al-Qaeda is concerned.
Missy| 2.9.10 @ 10:19PM
Uhh, did you know Predator Drones were used when George W. was president? They've been used quite successfully for years, I might add--where al Qaeda REALLY live.
Not only did George W. step up to the plate, he hit the ball out of the park for 7 1/2 years.
You liberals should stop obsessing about the past--you're not doing too well in the present and your future looks absolutely disastrous.
F Krautner| 2.12.10 @ 12:08PM
Did you know that the Bush family has a long relationship with the Bin Laden family businesses etc. Maybe that's why Bush arranged for all of Osama's relatives to fly out of the country immediately after 9/11 while a no-fly order was still in force.
Then there's the way Bush let Osama escape from Tora bora.
A lot of people think Bush set up the 9/11 attack as a means to wage war on Iraq. Why should I believe otherwise?
See: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/new.....ander.html
Missy| 2.13.10 @ 1:58AM
OMG!! You're a Truther!! Eww, I knew you were crazy.
Can't have it both ways, libtard: Either Bush is a stupid nincompoop who can't walk and chew gum at the same time or he's the most diabolical genius in history. Which is it, fool? You nitwits just can't make up your minds.
Better get back on your meds.
Pingback| 2.8.10 @ 4:21PM
Sovereign Bank branch in Dorchester held up again | Universal Hub | Banks Finance Wis links to this page. Here’s an excerpt:
Smorgasbord| 2.8.10 @ 4:31PM
You forget, or haven't figured out who's side Obama is on. I posted this on different blogs and I will post it here:
All of the conservative blogs seem surprised when Obama does something that will hurt the USA. You either haven't figured out, or have forgotten, Obama does not want the USA to succeed. If nothing else will convince you of this, him wanting a civilian police force UNDER HIS CONTROL that has as many members as the military, and funded equal to the military, should convince you he wants to take over the country. What did Adolph Hitler call his civilian police force? Obama can't activate the Nation Guard, governors have to do that. With his civilian police force that is as strong as the military he could easily take over the country.
I honestly believe Obama wants to be King, not president. He knows he can't be king in a republic (we are not a democracy), so he is aligning himself with those who will help make him king. Since a person can only be king in a dictatorship, Obama is friends of dictatorships since he wants to have one of his own. Using this logic it is easy to see why he wants to be friends with Venezuela and Cuba.
Remember, he had to have a title BEFORE he was president, so he CREATED the title of "Office Of The President Elect," and had a seal made for it." How long will it be before he DEMANDS to be called "Your Majesty?"
He bowed to the Saudi King because the king is like the Godfather to Obama. You only bow down to those you are in allegiance to. In that simple act Obama showed the world who he is subject to, and who he honors the most.
I think Obama's plan is to turn the USA over to other countries, and he figures he will be crowned king over it, or a part of it. Now I understand why he couldn't keep from laughing during his 60 Minutes interview. He knows they are helping him become king, and he will be ruling over them as their king some day.
ice9| 2.8.10 @ 4:35PM
Provide links to your histrionic treatment of the dozens of other situations where terrorists received the Miranda warning. Consistency is important in these things.
ice9
Nobama| 2.8.10 @ 5:51PM
Got one word about patriotic civility for you, ice9--BUSHITLER!!
We certainly haven't forgotten all your liberal 'civility' toward George W when he was POTUS, we haven't forgotten at all.
So, if we choose to apply to Obummer (in his case, well-deserved) the same respectful, gracious behavior you showed to W., I guess you'd have to say we're being CONSISTENT!
Consistency is important in all these things, right?
ice9| 2.8.10 @ 5:04PM
It is not relevant whether tribunals were set up yet. The Constitution provides for the treatment of criminals in the US. Guantanamo was stocked with people captured (mostly just purchased) overseas. That's why Padilla never went to Guantanamo; he stayed in the brig in SC. The underwear bomber was arrested on US soil.
This is not one of your odious conspiracy theories, or your spit-flecked rants. It's simple law, the law that was followed (grudgingly) by Bush as well. This is why Moussaoui was kept in the US, tried (in Alexandria VA in federal court), convicted, and imprisoned in the US.
You folks have no evidence, only anger. It has distorted your sense of justice and honesty. The irony is that you claim to be patriotic Americans, but to baldly revise the Constitution, to make wild claims about things that are simply false, and to attack your fellow Americans, including the properly elected and constituted President, is directly contrary to the ideals of this nation.
Four-line ad hominem attacks and screeching repetition of the original (now debunked) claim are not a logical or orderly argument. If you can't demonstrate that your perspective is consistent, legal, and honorable then you are wrong.
ice9
Nobama| 2.8.10 @ 5:30PM
What would liberals know about honor? Nothing, absolutely nothing!! Truth to liberals is like light to vampires: Anathema.
Tons of evidence and facts, too! We have it all--that's why Obama's favorables are in the freakin' toilet.
44% and dropping like a stone. lol
See you pissed-off liberals in November! Yeah, baby!!
Ralph Novy| 2.9.10 @ 12:12PM
ANOTHER four-line ad hominem attack, Nobama? Just can't help yourself, eh?
LOL
Nobama| 2.9.10 @ 2:31PM
And just what did you add to the conversation, troll? lol
Ralph Novy| 2.9.10 @ 12:08PM
Hear, hear!
Ralph Novy| 2.9.10 @ 12:09PM
...to ice9's commentary, that is.
Nobama| 2.9.10 @ 2:04PM
Sure, Novy--you know you love my spot on CONSERVATIVE posts. Thank you.
R Givens| 2.12.10 @ 12:17PM
Conservative replies offer no evidence, no real argument and nothing but half-baked propaganda snippets. A four line reply is above the norm for this forum.
By the way, has your opinion about death panels etc changed since Anthem Insurance increased rates by 39%. If you think greedy insurance companies will give you a break because you are a conservative dream on!
Nobama| 2.13.10 @ 2:09AM
"Death Panels" just mean rationing, braintrust. There won't be enough doctors to go around if another 30 million more people are added to the system --don't you understand? Someone's care will have to be cut back and that will probably be old folks.
If Health insurance companies had to compete across state lines like Car insurance companies, they wouldn't be able to raise their prices so much. Competition is the name of the game not a government monopoly.
It's sad that you can only spout DNC talking points, that you have no thoughts of your own. Pathetic, really; people like you are easily manipulated by the democrats.
No wonder our country is in such a mess.
Mattled| 2.8.10 @ 5:17PM
Missy and Ken,
Spot on----trolls are about as useful as a Smith Corona typewriter. Their arguments are that old and worn---and useless.
Mattled| 2.8.10 @ 5:19PM
Libturds like to go back and read their own words here at AmSpec-----the same way they like smelling their own farts.
Ken (Old Texican)| 2.8.10 @ 5:32PM
Mattled,
I learned the name for those folks as a child...
My dad called them "glicks". heh definition: "A guy who toots in the bathtub and bites at the bubbles."
heh.
Ken Roberts| 2.8.10 @ 6:08PM
There is a large chasm between fear and being a coward , it is ok to be fearful but not to the point of not fighting back. What we have in Washington is a house full of cowards who would run at the first onset of a war, they would run to their jets to leave for higher ground. The Jihadist's should be tried as enemy combatants and in a military style setting, not with in these shores . Any city that holds these hearings will become a target and why would we set any one up to be the target . ?? The military was formed to protect our country , we need to let them do their job, instead we prosecute them to satisfy a liberal idea, I call that insane . .
Drew | 2.9.10 @ 3:15AM
Quote: The Jihadist's should be tried as enemy combatants and in a military style setting, not with in these shores .
Why? And certainly in the case of Abdulmutallab, who is alleged to have committed his attempt at terror aboard a US airliner, and within the airspace of the continental United States.
You know, conservatives are very fond of the "slippery slope" sort of argument. We can't let gays in the military, because next they'll be teaching bestiality in the Sunday Schools... We can't pay for doctors to discuss end-of-life issues - because its really a plan to reopen Auschwitz. , etc. etc."
And yet here really is a case where the "slippery slope" is working, pretty conclusively, towards destroying our Constitution. And the people urging us, loudly (if not always coherently) down that path are America's conservatives. The same people who plaster their minivans with bumper stickers yakking about liberty and freedom.
Today its the underpants bomber. And you loudly scream and wail that he needs to be tried (if at all) in secret, and hopefully brutally tortured before being swiftly executed.
But what if, tomorrow, it is your kid who gets caught with a M80 (firework) in his school lunchbox? Wouldn't you want him to have a fair hearing? Or are you completely satisfied that an overzealous school administrator, or police officer, or a FBI agent hoping for a big promotion won't decide its a case of domestic terrorism, and send junior into a black hole to be tried in secret.
We already have a system in place that can sort out the difference between a kid with a firecracker, and someone planning on blowing up an airliner. Its called the criminal justice system. And little things like habeus corpus and rules of evidence aren't some shifty Washington trick to let criminals (or terrorists) walk free. They are designed to keep us all safe from a Government that may, sometimes, get things wrong.
Considering all the complaining about the Government that goes on on this, and other, conservative websites - you guys really seem to be giving the Government an awful lot of unchecked power. But maybe that, and this stupid argument, are really about trying to score political points. Now - that's cynicism for you.
K962| 2.9.10 @ 9:52AM
One more terrorist incident and Obama will be toast. This administration is hopelessly inept.
wwwexler| 2.9.10 @ 2:02PM
Agreed. Obonehead lucked out BIG TIME on Christmas Day.
And the clown didn't even go to church! Some 'Christian'.
DanMingo| 2.9.10 @ 11:02AM
We hold these truths to be self-evident; that all men are created equal, and that they are endowed by their creator with certain inalienable rights; Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of happiness.
Unless they are not Americans.
Then, all men not so equal.
DonAlbino| 2.9.10 @ 2:00PM
Stop whining. If you've got a problem with the Constitution, change it.
Ralph Novy| 2.9.10 @ 12:15PM
Boy, The Prowler, do you ever need to look up "cynicism" in a dictionary.
Check out "projection" while you're at it.
DL| 2.9.10 @ 12:39PM
...and you would have gotten actional intelligence if interrogated by the military? Or maybe if you tortured him? Funny how the folks Bush tried within our judicial system are spending their lives in jail while we can't do much with the folks we tortured because we torutured them. Why don't you name your sources? Your analysis is nonsense!
Drew | 2.9.10 @ 1:33PM
Its strange to me how we never heard all this whining about "plea bargaining with terrorists" during the Bush administration. And the Bush folks actually boasted about
"securing of 319 convictions or guilty pleas in terrorism or terrorism-related cases arising from investigations conducted primarily after September 11, 2001, and zero terrorist attacks on American soil by foreign nationals from 2003 through 2007." (Source: http://www.justice.gov/jmd/200.....lights.htm)
Analysis: When a Republican administration (rightly) tried terror suspects in Civilian courts: Not a peep. But when a Democratic administration does the same thing?
From a purely practical standpoint, there is not a single good reason NOT to try terrorists captured anywhere outside a military combat zone in civilian courts.
Please, please, give us your excuse for this screaming hypocrisy? Or have you only recently decided to share your sadistic torture fantasies with the rest of the world?
wwwexler| 2.9.10 @ 1:58PM
You democrats are lucky the crotch bomber failed, libtard. If he'd succeeded, Obowmao's favorables would be in the teens not the forties.
One year in, Obama is already a FAILED president and democrats face an electoral bloodbath in November.
Enjoy, Asshole.
Drew| 2.9.10 @ 2:59PM
Stay classy, American Standard readers.
You know, I'm quite sure that somewhere out there in this great country of ours there must be liberals who exhibit the sort of dishonest, hate-filled; racist; homophobic; illiterate name-calling that characterizes so much of the right-wing blogosphere.
But I've yet to see too much of it.
Because, at the end of the day, thats not really liberal's game. I'm sure when Rush Limbaugh had his trip to the emergency room earlier this year there were few jokes. (And lets be honest, if ever there was someone who invited spiteful jokes - it'd be Rush) But nothing compared to American Standard contributor Caleb Howe's Twitter feed on the death of rep. Jack Murtha. Way to respect a decorated Marine hero.
http://mediamatters.org/blog/201002090011
Ronald Reagan never resorted to crap like that. Neither did Wm. F. Buckley. And even Richard Nixon had the decency to keep his profanity-filled outbursts to the privacy of his office.
Liberals don't generally resort to lying and name-calling because, for the most part, we feel pretty confident sticking to truth and the facts.
wwwexler| 2.9.10 @ 3:04PM
And "BUSHITLER" to you, too, clown.
When will you liberal beta males ever grow a pair?
Enjoy your fast approaching time in the political wilderness.
Drew| 2.9.10 @ 3:35PM
"You have heard that it was said, 'Love your neighbor and hate your enemy.' But I tell you: Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, that you may be sons of your Father in heaven."
Matthew 5:43-45
RAMIII| 2.9.10 @ 5:00PM
Nice try Drew. Jesus was speaking to individuals not nations of peoples. He was also challenging the limited definition of love as portrayed by the religious elites of his day.
wwwexler| 2.9.10 @ 4:25PM
Typical liberal: Run and try to hide behind two of your most hated adversaries, the Bible and US Military, when you get your asses handed to you in the arena of public discourse.
Pathetic.
F Krautner | 2.9.10 @ 6:40PM
An insult is the first thing these right wingers resort to when challenged, because facts and logical reasoning have to be abandoned to be a conservative.
Their example is Rush Limbaugh the master of insults and derogatory remarks utterly devoid of truth. Rush seeks to surpass Joseph Goebbels who perfected the "Big Lie" technique of propaganda. (see: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_Goebbels)
wwwexler| 2.9.10 @ 6:54PM
Here it comes! "You big bad republicans are Nazis."
"You're racist, too--and you're homophobes."
Borrrriiing! Yawn.
Have fun in the political wilderness, libtards. While you're there , say hello to the disgraced ideologies that define you-- Marxism and Communism.
We won't miss you.
F KRAUTNER| 2.10.10 @ 8:59AM
You are 50 years behind the curve. Joe McCarthy died in 1957. The Commie threat died with the Soviet Union, but Republicans didn't notice.
McCarthy was so shameless that Eisenhower had to rebuke him for attacking the US Army.
Limbaugh et al imitate McCarthy with fictions and exaggerations that would wreck the nation if put into practice.
It is fitting that the GOP has proven liar like Rush Limbaugh as your leader.
wwwexler| 2.10.10 @ 2:11PM
Rush Limbaugh lives rent-free inside your head--along with all of the disturbing voices.
In case you don't know--we defeated Hitler 65 years ago.
No wonder we're kicking your liberal butts--you're still rehashing McCarthy!! LOL!
You need a shrink. See you November 2, 2010!
F KRAUTNER| 2.15.10 @ 10:18AM
All of your heroes are liars or thieves. The comparisons with Nazi Germany are appropriate.
Conservative ignorance of history insures that they will repeat their error over and over.
The Demos only have one problem, they seem to be afraid to use a victory at the polls to push their ideas.
All of this B-S about a 61 vote majority is nonsense. If the Demos use the NUCLEAR OPTION, they could put the GOP out of business for 30 years.
wwwexler| 2.16.10 @ 2:30AM
Yeah, why don't the no-balls wonders do it then, Krauturd? Too chickensh!t that's why. LOL!
What election victories? You mean the last three that resulted in two governorships and "Ready Teddy's" Senate seat for REPUBLICANS? Oh, those elections.
The old bastard must be spinning in his grave and Mary Jo's laughing her butt off!
Quit whining about Hitler; your heroes, Stalin and Mao slaughtered many more millions of innocent people. Slimeball.
MattZ| 2.9.10 @ 7:52PM
Wow,
Wherever modern conservative thought is heading . . . it sure isn't looking pretty. Keep up the good work! If you can't torture terrorists then at least you'll be busy torturing logic!
MZ
LNM| 2.9.10 @ 10:24PM
Hahahahaha!! Aren't you liberals funny? Your humor is to die for, Obama is a joke and your party's favorables are dead!
Keep up the good work!
Dwight| 2.11.10 @ 11:18AM
The problem most don't realize whether they like it or not is that civilian court is the only legal legal action. The CIA has no authority, nor does the military. Had this happened elsewhere or on a military base like in Texas then either of them could have taken this case over, but thats just not the case. We need to stop whining about why they shouldn't be doing this - (what is the point?) and make sure they do it right. Whining about "oh Obama is siding with the terrorists" makes everyone sound like a bunch of lefty college kids. Take them to criminal court, convict them of crimes because they are criminals and lock them in a black box forever - don't kill them because thats what they want.
wwwexler| 2.11.10 @ 3:18PM
But they're NOT doing it right--that's the point.
Dwight| 2.15.10 @ 1:49AM
There is no other way. THATS that point. You can make up radio personality fantasies about military tribunals, but the one way to do it right, without questions or skirting current law is criminal courts.
wwwexler| 2.15.10 @ 3:23AM
Well, then, Dwight--why are your fellow loser liberals, Holder and Obama, going in the military tribunal direction now?
Maybe because they see the writing on the wall and they know the American people are majorly pi$$ed off with you idiot liberals and are going to demolish your dummocrat party come November?
Unlike a useless blogger like you, Obama has to admit he's wrong--HE HAS NO CHOICE!
I strongly suggest you read a little more before you mindlessly spew your DNC talking points.
Told you so.
Dwight| 2.15.10 @ 9:29PM
booo hoo. boo hoo. Your big meanie internets words really really hurt my soft bleeding liberal heart. Now I see the light thanks to an angry porn addicted basement dweller such as yourself.
I think they are idiots for giving in to wackos spewing RNC talking points. Do you not believe in the US court system? How about our legislative system? Maybe they are too old school and we should adopt a dictator government where the will of one or two governs all - forget laws or precedence... Its obvious to me that I am the intelligent one here making rational, educated (yes, I'm a lawyer - thank you) statements based on my own experience and morals.
Your radio gotten knowledge just doesn't cut the mustard for real legal, important decisions.
So go ahead, demolish the democrats in Nov. They deserve it. What do I care? I just trying to uphold our legal system...
Dwight| 2.15.10 @ 9:28PM
booo hoo. boo hoo. Your big meanie internets words really really hurt my soft bleeding liberal heart. Now I see the light thanks to an angry porn addicted basement dweller such as yourself.
I think they are idiots for giving in to wackos spewing RNC talking points. Do you not believe in the US court system? How about our legislative system? Maybe they are too old school and we should adopt a dictator government where the will of one or two governs all - forget laws or precedence... Its obvious to me that I am the intelligent one here making rational, educated (yes, I'm a lawyer - thank you) statements based on my own experience and morals.
Your radio gotten knowledge just doesn't cut the mustard for real legal, important decisions.
So go ahead, demolish the democrats in Nov. They deserve it. What do I care? I just trying to uphold our legal system...
wwwexler| 2.16.10 @ 2:22AM
Only 'intelligent, educated and rational' losers double-post! Clueless, impotent libtard. lol
Don't wait, mark the date; November 2, 2010.
We have!
Later, Snookums
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Puma x Alexander McQueen | 8.12.11 @ 11:30PM
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