The American Spectator : Miracle in Massachusetts Deals Devastating Blow to Obamacare

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Miracle in Massachusetts Deals Devastating Blow to Obamacare

By Philip Klein on 1.20.10 @ 6:09AM

Democrats are out of viable options to pass health care legislation.

Last month, when Democrats managed to cut enough back room deals to pass a health care bill through the Senate before Christmas, I thought conservatives would need a miracle to prevent it from becoming law.

Well, we got our miracle.

In what seemed like a wild fantasy just a few weeks ago, Scott Brown actually pulled off a stunning upset by becoming the first Republican elected U.S. Senator of the liberal state of Massachusetts since the year The Godfather, Part I opened in movie theaters. And it wasn’t just any seat, but the seat once held by liberal icon Ted Kennedy.

More importantly, Brown became the 41st Republican vote in the Senate, a reality that likely means the end of Democratic health care legislation. While Obamacare is not done for quite yet, in football terms, its status went from “probable” to “doubtful” virtually overnight.

In anticipation of a possible Brown victory, Democratic leadership had already floated a number of possible ways to pass a health care bill even without 60 votes in the Senate. But as Tuesday drew to a close, it became clear that none of those options is still feasible.

In the afternoon, while polls were still open, Sen. Joe Lieberman, the Connecticut independent who voted for the Senate bill after the public option was removed, said on Fox News that even the fact that the Massachusetts race was close suggested the public was “really skeptical” about the legislation.

Within a few hours, Sen. Evan Bayh of Indiana went even further than Lieberman, warning that Democrats would face “catastrophe” if they ignored the message in Massachusetts.

“[I]f you lose Massachusetts and that’s not a wake-up call, there’s no hope of waking up,” Bayh told ABC News.

In some sense, it was predictable that moderates would make such statements given what was happening in a solidly blue state. But it was surprising to hear more liberal Democrats pile on.

"If she loses, it's over," Rep. Carolyn Maloney declared.

And another New Yorker, liberal stalwart Rep. Anthony Weiner, appeared on MSNBC -- while votes were still being counted -- and said that with just 59 votes in the Senate, “I don't see how we get this done.” He explained that he had just come from a Democratic caucus meeting with Speaker Nancy Pelosi in which they discussed negotiations to merge the House and Senate bills, and quipped, “it seems to have a flavor of whistling past the graveyard.”

Weiner argued that he had problems with the way the bill was sold, but that Democrats “have to be careful not to compound getting it wrong with a sense of arrogance that we’re going to push through no matter what any of the voters say.”

There were a few options Democrats had been toying with in the event of a Brown win. One idea was to stall Brown’s seating as long as possible, and quickly ram the revised health care bill through both chambers of Congress in the meantime. Another idea was to simply have the House pass the Senate version as is, while creating a separate bill with all of the compromises that could be passed through a complex process known as “reconciliation,” which only requires a simple majority of 51 votes in the Senate.

To begin with, both of these ideas would be contingent on the House passing a bill quickly. However, when the House bill originally passed in November, it was by a narrow 220 to 215 vote, meaning that Pelosi only had three votes to spare. In a vote on final passage, Pelosi would have to woo House liberals even though the Senate bill doesn’t have a public option and does have a “Cadillac tax” that affects union benefits. Meanwhile, a number of pro-life Democrats threatened to defect because of the weaker language on abortion. Even before the results came in, it was clear that the mere competitiveness of a Senate race in a state President Obama carried by 26 points would make it harder for Pelosi to ask members representing McCain districts to go along with the bill anyway.

As the night progressed, this perilous situation deteriorated even further for Democrats. Brown not only won the election, but he won by a comfortable 52 percent to 47 percent margin, or about 110,000 votes, making the strategy of delaying his seating untenable. And if it wasn’t obvious enough, Sen. Jim Webb put out a statement insisting that “I believe it would only be fair and prudent that we suspend further votes on health care legislation until Senator-elect Brown is seated."

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topics:
Health Care, Democratic Party, Barney Frank

About the Author

Philip Klein is The American Spectator's Washington correspondent. You can follow him on Twitter at: http://twitter.com/Philipaklein

Letter to the Editor View all comments (123) | Leave a comment

drudge ette obama| 1.20.10 @ 6:14AM

Now the moderate Democrats will start crawling out from their rocks.

But I ask these questions: Where were they before 1/19/2010 and will they go back there again?

Vote them all out. Start fresh. No kings in America!

Sam Vaughn| 1.20.10 @ 9:18AM

Perhaps we should take a page out of colonial history books. When a citizen politician got greedy for power they tarred, feathered and escorted the miscreant to the edge of town for permanent exile. It's time we recognize that so-called progressives are what they are. Enemies of the constitution, therefore,...

Rastro| 1.20.10 @ 4:16PM

Tarring and feathering constitutes assault and battery in todays language. Yes, it it would be lovely to hang 'em all, but methinks something a tad more clever be used.

Alan Brooks| 1.20.10 @ 9:45AM

No kings in America, just RINOs who say "government is the enemy" one decade and then change their tune later, when they have to buy support.

Ken (Old Texican)| 1.20.10 @ 10:35AM

Aw hush, Alan. Today is a day for rejoicing and giving thanks to God.

Alan Brooks| 1.20.10 @ 12:10PM

Which God is that?
the GOP God, or the Conservative God?
You cannot serve two masters.

Ken (Old Texican)| 1.20.10 @ 12:45PM

Alan,
I am Thanking the God that "made and preserved us a nation."
(Uh, that is from the Star Spangled Banner ... uh...our national anthem).

I am thanking the God that led the Israelites out of Egypt, and sent Jesus Christ to teach us to love one another...as He loves us.

Whiners like you sat on their butts in Egypt.
They are still persecuted...over 3,000 years later.

enjoy.

Curtis Rasmussen| 1.20.10 @ 2:14PM

Hey Alan,

You're going to have to pay for that operation yourself. Having me pay just got much less likely...

Hope and change is on the way. It's just not in the form that you would like.

Alan Brooks| 1.20.10 @ 5:58PM

"You're going to have to pay for that operation yourself. Having me pay just got much less likely... "

Curt,
Tell it to your poor relations, not anyone else.
Conservatism begins at home.

Curtis Rasmussen| 1.21.10 @ 12:47AM

The election of Brown may signal the end of the current round of socialist tyranny disguised as healthcare reform, cap and trade, automatic voter registration laws, card check, etc... Understandably, lib 'something for nothing' useful idiots like yourself still cling to the dying hope that the marginal benefit from federal largesse will outweigh the forfeiture of freedom.

Conservatism at home? What the hell, you hypocrite? For you libs charity begins at the polling booth. Vote in the candidates that will give you free healthcare and tell your neigbor which car to drive. The only problem is it's not charity if money or personal decisions are taken from taxpayers at gunpoint or for fear of fines or imprisonment.

I sincerely hope that you'll find a way to pay for your own problems. It's looking less likely that I, the taxpayer will be forced to contribute.

MTB| 1.20.10 @ 12:52PM

Alan is right. RINOs are just as bad as Democrats, in my opinion. They are either conservative or they're not. I know he's not a RINO, but I loved it when Lieberman shut down the health care bill, until he was appeased by Harry Reid. The same goes for Ben Nelson and all the others who got this stink bomb of a bill this close to passing. Olympia Snowe should have stopped it when she had the chance. You don't LET the opposing team get to the 1 foot line and then put up a defense. You stop them as far away from your own goal as you can. RINOs failed the party and almost all of the American people. I am conservative, and do agree that in the richest country in the world health care should be available to all, and affordable, but this bill was NOT the way to do it. It was pure socialism, almost fascism, and would have led to the ruin of our great country.

Alan Brooks| 1.20.10 @ 6:49PM

I just don't like it that Old Mexican Ken invokes God so often, as if God is a Republican.

If Jesus came back he would vomit all over us.

Carpenter| 1.20.10 @ 10:52PM

Poor Alan just doesn't get it. Republicans don't believe God is a Republican. It's just that they are more often driven by values they learned from their Creator.
As Margaret Thatcher once said, "the facts of life are inevitably conservative."
You might want to commit some time to prayer, Alan, before you presume to speak for our Savior.

Cheap printing| 12.26.10 @ 7:00AM

When people who are so called intellent beings believe in someone who doesn't exist it hardly allows you to trust in the comments they right, oh, and santa clause isn't real either :(

John| 1.20.10 @ 9:56AM

Yes. Let us start fresh. And please include Evan Bayh of Indiana in that list! Mr. Bayh votes moderate only when it fits him. All of these moderate Democrats put their party affiliations first and their constituencies last! Such shameful behavior. The Democratic Party did not use to be like this!

John| 1.20.10 @ 9:56AM

Richard| 1.20.10 @ 11:42PM

John, you are correct when you note that the Democrat Party did not always display the extreme left-leaning form it now presents. I date myself, but I remember well the Kennedy/Nixon election of 1960. Though the two candidates showed minor philosophical differences, President Kennedy would be considered a conservative by today standards (tax cuts, strong national defense) and Nixon's agenda showed clear signs of a liberal leaning. The decline of the Democrat Party, I contend, began with Lyndon (who, until this past year, I considered the worst president in the history of the republic) and has "progressively" deteriorated ever since. I began voting in '68 (Nixon/Humphrey) and have never missed an election (national, state-wide or local) and am proud to say that I have never voted for a Democrat, in any capacity, and cannot imagine a political cataclysm that would ever tempt me to alter the pattern. I am saddened by the party's continued degeneration into the abyss of looney-leftism and must admit to being appalled that this nation would give carte blanche power to such arrogant and dangerous elitists and have allowed them to take over the free-press and the education of our children. What would the founders say to us?

John E. Vande Woude| 1.20.10 @ 4:44PM

I surely hope that this is the beginning of [the end of] business-as-usual politics in Washington.

Whereas I like Brown's comments that he is not beholden to anyone excluding the people who elected him (a major Brown campaign theme) I am cautious knowing that the self-centered, back-room-dealing, inner-workings of Washington pervert many who arrive with honest intentions.

Democratic Senator Claire McCaskill’s comments to reporters today are characteristic of what is more likely to happen in the wake of Scott Brown’s victory. McCaskill stated that “If there's anybody in this building that doesn't tell you they are more worried about elections today, you should absolutely slap them". He added “Of course everybody is more worried about elections. Are you kidding? It's what this place thrives on." His comments are a synonym for the term “business as usual” — a concise example of the sole diversion that keeps our politicians from accomplishing anything. Simply put, most politicians will “do anything”, “say anything” and “promise anything” to get elected. Following, with little exception, their actions are based on what they believe will help them get re-elected down the road — not what is good or just.

Brown’s win should serve a “wake-up-call” for our elected representatives — a reminder that they are in Washington to do a job. Sadly, the Massachusetts upset is more likely to result in “finger pointing”; “wag tailing” and “political posturing” with politicians distancing themselves from issues that they feel may harm them in the next election. Most certainly, House Representatives and Senators will start to proclaim that “they voted for the healthcare bill before they were against it”. They will retreat to their corners or, worse yet, abandon their principals and move to the middle, left or right depending on what the electoral barometer tells them to do. They will garner votes by jumping on bandwagons; bashing those they rubbed elbows with on the Senate floor just weeks ago and choose words carefully so as not to unclothe their true position on issues.

The real problem lies with the American voter who allows this to happen without consequence — by not voting these self indulgent, mendacious, degenerate individuals out of office for broken campaign promises, ineffectiveness and for abandoning their stated principals as soon as the political wind changes.

That said, I think Massachusetts just did that.

Stick the "Hope" on high| 1.20.10 @ 6:17PM

Too bad old Hussein picked the wrong country to falsely be born in. He could have done a lot of good in Russia or China.

Carolina| 1.21.10 @ 2:01AM

Ah, but don't you know, Blacks in Russia, are basically DOA, barely scraping by in China, check with Barry's brother! Absolutely NO opportunities there, or anything else!! Let alone a Beautiful Rebel Wife and a Crowd of supporters in Chicago!!

Stick the "Hope" on high| 1.20.10 @ 6:18PM

Too bad old Hussein picked the wrong country to falsely be born in. He could have done a lot of good in Russia or China.

Bill Hussein O'Stalin| 1.20.10 @ 6:20AM

It was a Mass for the nation, and it wasn't even Sunday.

Andrew| 1.20.10 @ 8:42AM

Well said, Mr. O'Stalin! I may steal that line!

Bill| 1.20.10 @ 6:42AM

drudge ette obama, I agree. There are both Dems and Rep that do not have the best interest of this country in mind and need to go. We the people need to change the way the districts are drawn, set term limits and the way bills are passed. I think America is now awake and will not go back to sleep again. The way business is done in DC is changed, we are now watching them.

Big J| 1.20.10 @ 6:51AM

While I am encouraged by the Brown victory last night, I would not turn a blind eye to the usurpers currently occupying the People's Seats.

I don't trust them any further than I can throw my gas guzzling F150.

I would just like to be the first to step up and say THANK YOU to the people of Massachusetts. After years of saddling the rest of us with the likes of Kennedy, Frank and Kerry, you did the right thing.

Drudge and Bill are right. The halls of Congress need to be refreshed.

I would also like to see a repeal of these jokers' "Cadillac" retirement plans. Come on. Full pay for the rest of your life, even after only one term? Pretty excessive if you ask me.

Want to fix Social inSecurity? Force them to retire on the same program.

Tom| 1.20.10 @ 8:14AM

While I share you sentiment regarding Congress your beliefs regarding their pension payouts are way off base. From CNN money
"Members are eligible to start collecting at age 62 if they have at least five years of service. If they have 20 years of service under their belt, they can retire at 50. With 25 years of service, they can retire any time.

What they get depends on a formula based on years of service and average pay(natch, right?).

So a congressman with 22 years of service and whose average salary for the top three years was $153,900 gets $84,645. A current congressman ending up with six years of service (it's two-year terms, after all) would get at least $16,503 (at age 62, of course).

In actuality, the average congressional pension payment ranges between $41,000 and $55,000, based on 2002 data from the Congressional Research Service."

A really nice plan, most of us would be happy to have it, but it is not even close to full pay after 1 term.

MTB| 1.20.10 @ 12:57PM

Thanks. Do you know if they also get lifetime medical and dental? That kind of sweetens the pot, doesn't it? I do agree with Big J that members of the three branches of government should be forced to take on whatever plan Congress comes up with and is signed into law. They should not have a Cadillac plan while forcing a Yugo (remember them?) on the rest of us.

Ken (Old Texican)| 1.20.10 @ 12:48PM

Well stated, Big J.

...You just keep slipping in and quietly reminding us of the truth.
Thank you

RAMIII| 1.20.10 @ 5:34PM

I think we just got our "term limits" enacted. Hooray!

Fortunately the voting wasn't close enough so they could cheat their way in (remember MN 2008).

Appleby| 1.20.10 @ 7:05AM

I think what sank Coakley herself was her own blundering about -- and that quotation of Vicky, the third and much younger Kennedy Wife, *channeling her Inner Teddy* didnt help a lot either.

Would it not be interesting to know if Barbara Boxer spent a sleepless night last night about the safety of her seat?

Stephanie| 1.20.10 @ 7:17AM

And Boxer is one who DEFINITLY needs to go.

WASHINGTON, DO YOU HEAR US NOW?

Rmm| 1.20.10 @ 9:18AM

Rightoh, Boxer's claim to fame was her rant about the Air Force spending $400 on toilet seats, way back when she was a member of the House.
Send her **** back to Marin.

Lullaby's, Legends and Lies| 1.20.10 @ 12:07PM

Don't forget her famous line last year when she was addressing Brig. Gen. Michael Walsh, don't call me Ma'am, call me Senator, I worked hard for that title. What a disgrace!!

Yes Ma'am, umm?,.. I mean Senator. It's time to remove her from her job now too, actually it's overdue.

MTB| 1.20.10 @ 1:00PM

I spent 25 years in the military as an enlistee. I called all female officers as "Ma'am." It is a term of respect. That imbecile Boxer despises the military and it showed that day. VOTE HER OUT!

MTB| 1.20.10 @ 12:58PM

And Maxine Waters, and Nancy Pelosi, and Barney Frank, and John Kerry. . .

jr| 1.20.10 @ 5:44PM

MTB, surely you didn't get tired of typing those few names. But of course, there may be several hundred of those things in Congress. If they only got paid for what they do for us.

Tim| 1.20.10 @ 8:07AM

The mistake that these new Democrats made was to think that Massachusetts voters liked Liberal Kings.....They don't and they never have.

The Old Liberalism meant to be free from oppression and freedom to think for yourself.

These voters have never been the faciast types....so when they saw what had happened to their own party and saw that many modern day dems running the show in DC are just yesterdays power hungry Faciasts they bolted the party for someone more in tune to their way of thinking.

Scott Brown is a lot like JFK....and that should tell everyone on the left just how far the Dems in power have fallen from the defenders of Liberty and why Socialism just won't work in the States.

Anthony| 1.20.10 @ 8:24AM

Good morning Washington: This is your wake up call.
The Washington leftist elites and their allies in the media are speechless. Watching Scott Brown's victory unfold last night, I got that same tingly feeling Chris Matthews used to get up his leg. Hmm, I wonder if it's contagous?
MEMO TO HARRY REID: Contact whatever Washington bureaucracy that handles congressional pensions; it's time to put your financial affairs in order as a soon to be private citizen. That applies to the rest of you as well.

Andrew| 1.20.10 @ 8:34AM

"However, when the House bill originally passed in November, it was by a narrow 220 to 215 vote, meaning that Pelosi only had three votes to spare. "

Not to split hairs, but she really had only TWO votes to spare. Three votes the other way and the bill fails. After last night, there's NO way she gets 218 Dems on board the hari-kari express. IMHO.

Mark Jeffery Koch| 1.20.10 @ 8:35AM

I am a Democrat who voted for Obama but I did not vote for massive debt, a health care reform bill that is anything but reform, backroom deals to buy the votes of senators, treating our allies Israel, England, Germany, and France as though they were the enemy, refusal to acknowledge that Islamic terrorism is a threat to our country and does exist, a carbon tax energy policy that will cost the middle class billions of dollars in new taxes, and the arrogance, hubris, and attitude of Obama and his diehard supporters that are harming America.

I am glad Scott Brown won and if the liberal Democrats don't get the message that this country did not want a far left turn when Obama won the election this life long Democrat will never vote for a Democrat again.

Andrew| 1.20.10 @ 8:52AM

Mark, I'd be curious to know why you DID vote for Obama? You stated what you did NOT vote for, but anyone with a reasonable understanding who Obama was in his entire adult lifetime would have known, or at least expected, him to behave as he has. It has NOT come as a surprise to me, nor to many of the 47.3% who voted McCain, to see how Obama has governed during his first year in office.

What did YOU expect, when you voted for him, and more importantly, WHY did you expect it?

I'm not trying to be argumentative or an a-hole, I just wonder why so many people were so hoodwinked by this guy, when his entire adult history was available to be known (with a little effort) and was a roadmap to the past year.

Bruce| 1.20.10 @ 8:55AM

God bless the independent voters of Massachusetts.
Isn't is interesting that if the Democrats had taken a bipartisan approach on health care they wouldn't have been in this situation. Instead they wasted about half of their legislative calendar on this monstrosity and will have nothing to show for it.
There is a lesson here, but I doubt if any of the elite are listening.

Ran / Si Vis Pacem| 1.20.10 @ 9:08AM

Mr Klein,
Thanks for the great report. Heh... If the Dems apply the Emmanuel-Sunstein life-support standard, this old 'progressive' vampire should be given a pill.

Before Republicans start crowing, they had better note that 'Republicanism' did not win here... the progressive statist agenda lost, and lost heavily at that. Without a solid liberty-oriented agenda, Republicans are still merely Plan 'B'.

Permit me a little schadenfreude: What a beautiful anniversary present for the Won. Couldn't have gone to a nicer guy.

Siegfried X| 1.20.10 @ 11:09AM

"Without a solid liberty-oriented agenda, Republicans are still merely Plan 'B'. "

Yup. There hasn't been a conservative / small government Republican agenda for 15 years. We can vote for the party which admits they are Democrats, or the mystery party which won't tell us what they'll do if they get elected.

Really there is no Republican party, just an opposition. And in reality the Republicans aren't even an opposition much of the time -- they just talk like they are, but then vote with the Democrats anyway.

Blacque Jacques Shellacque| 1.20.10 @ 9:21AM

Miracle in Massachusetts Deals Devastating Blow to Obamacare

Potentially it does, but it would be wise to watch squishy RINOs closely, as the Democrats aren't above trying to pick off one or two of them because that's all they need.

Neo| 1.20.10 @ 9:22AM

Let’s see … Republican running as 41th vote against HCR in “bluest” state wins .. it’s a sign the “blue” team must pass HCR by all means necessary. This level of political tone deafness is unbelievable. Talk about dense. Massachusetts voters weren’t mad because there is no health care reform bill or Republican obstructionism.

Massachusetts already has a rough equivalent of ObamaCare with 98% coverage. They were mad because the party in power had lost it’s mind and was on a spending spree that will damage our country for decades to come. Congress was writing checks that the taxpayers couldn’t and now wouldn’t pay. Meanwhile, the economy lays there .. like a greasy meatball.

Let’s hope Congress learns that every problem doesn’t demand a solution from Washington, and just because you can doesn’t mean you should.

Perhaps there are Democrats who want to complete their “lemmings” death march as they kamikaze their way into the history books. Let’s hope it’s less than 50% of the Congress.

Siegfried X| 1.20.10 @ 9:56AM

Health care will probably still pass!

It's sad but true. The House Democrats might approve the Senate's version in a simple up or down vote. From there it would go right to Obama's desk to be signed.

This is based on the hope / fantasy that someday there would be another bill giving the House the compromise stuff they've been working on with the Senate.

JP| 1.20.10 @ 10:14AM

Siegfried,
It's over. Even Barney Frank quipped last night that his caucus will not accept the senate's version. The UAW alone will not tolerate the Cadillac Tax on thier pension plans. And Stupak said he will not accept the abortion language of the senate's plan. Pelosi only won by 3 votes last year. And I think the Brown's victory finally woke up the Dems to the electoral mess they created.

ObamaCare is dead. This is an election year. The Dems now know thier only chance of keeping thier majorities in either house is to distance themselves from ObamaCare. The longer ObamaCare stays in the news, the liklier chance they will get hammered come November. If the GOP can win in Nantucket they can win anywhere.

Liz| 1.20.10 @ 9:58AM

Jim Webb infuriates me! He's continually voted 'yes' to keep this hell-th care monster alive despite the will of Virginians! Now, it seems he's hiding behind a Scott Brown victory to save his sorry a**. I will not forget what he has done in 2012!

ncatty| 1.20.10 @ 12:07PM

Amen, Sister.

JP| 1.20.10 @ 10:07AM

ObamaCare as it is currently written is dead. Senator Bayh, who holds a relatively safer senate seat, is up for relection this year. His most likely GOP competitor, former Rep Hostetler, now has the ammunition. Bayh voted for this monstrosity of a bill. Bayh now owns the Louisiana Purchase and Cornhusker Pay-off, as well as employer and employee mandates, etc... There are 11 other democratic senators up for re-election. This bill will not survive another vote in the Senate. It is now obvious to all that the President himself is becoming a politcal liability, and I seriously doubt there are now any members of congress willing to fall on the swords for him.

Ditto for the House, where everyone is up for re-election. Brown's victory has shown that the GOP can win in solidly blue states - that is how unpopular ObamaCare has become. Factor in chronically high unemployment, and the Dems are vulnerable in about every district save the most blue (Pelosi, rest assured your seat is safe for now). I don't even think Barney Frank, who sits in a heavily gerrymandered district, is feeling very secure.

Last night's vote illustrated a growing nausea the voters have for thier elected officials. If the President and his minions still are determined to pass ObamaCare at all costs let them. And watch one of the most significant voter rebellion's begin.

Siegfried X| 1.20.10 @ 10:14AM

I do hope that Obama Care dies, but Nancy Pelosi hasn't given up. The fact remains that if she can find 218 House Democrats willing to vote for the Senate's bill, then Obama Care becomes the law of the land, regardless of what anyone else cares or thinks. The Senate wouldn't even get another chance to vote on it. One quick House vote, then Obama signs it.

Andrew| 1.20.10 @ 10:22AM

Siegfried, stipulating that you're right in what you write, Obamacare becomes the law of the land only until November (or really, early next January) when a new Congress is elected. When Obamacare is repealed. Remember, Nazi Pelosi could only find 220 votes for the bill in November...long before Virginia (purple) went GOP, New Jersey (deep blue) went GOP, and Massachusetts (as blue as someone who's drowning) went GOP. If she could only get 220 Dems on board BEFORE the GOP trifecta, the chances that she can get 218 on board now are virtually nil, IMHO.

Siegfried X| 1.20.10 @ 10:32AM

When I heard about this possibility during the past week I too believed that it was dead. But now that theory has become reality, and I read some Democratic comments, including those from the left, I begin to wonder.

Pelosi actually has 256 Democrats to choose from, not 220. It could be that some liberals decide to vote for health care this time, even though they opposed the other version. This would be their last chance to vote for a 1970's liberal program, and some lefties are talking about that. They voted "no" before to negotiate with the Senate but things have (obviously) changed.

Andrew| 1.20.10 @ 2:15PM

What you say is true, however, it doesn't take into account those "yes" votes who, seeing VA, NJ, and now MA decide a little self-preservation is in order. So for every "no" that becomes a "yes," there's every chance that there's a "yes" that becomes a "no." And also, two of the earlier "yes" votes have retired and have not been replaced (Wexler in FL; not sure of the other one). So yes, the Dems have the numbers. But they don't have the balls to ram it through, or they do have the brains not to (or, enough of them have the brains or the self-serving survival instinct). You could be right, but my guess (and yes, it's just a guess) is that the likelihood of the House passing the Senate version is, maybe, 10%.

JP| 1.20.10 @ 10:47AM

I think many people forget just how close the House vote was. Pelosi was able to cobble together only 220 votes (218 was needed) only by allowing an item she holds dear (federal funding of abortion) to get excluded (the Stupak Amendment). Otherwise, she was 11 votes short. Stupak already told reporters that the Senate's abortion language was unacceptable. Pelosi's margin for error is 3. After last night, she lost that margin.

Andrew| 1.20.10 @ 2:18PM

Her margin for error was actually 2 (3, and she would've lost). And 2 of the "yes" votes have since retired (Wexler in FL is one of them). So based upon November, she has no more wiggle room. Yes, some of the "no's" can flip. But really, after the GOP wins in VA, NJ, and MA, would there really be enough of them willing to fall on their swords for Obama/Reid/Pelosi, knowing full well that it'll sign their retirement papers AND that it'll likely be for naught, as the next Congress will likely repeal Obamacare? I don't think so.

Siegfried X| 1.20.10 @ 7:31PM

A close vote is a political tactic, something that is not a true indicator of how a secret ballot would go. Most parties WANT very difficult votes to be extremely close, so that the fewest of the members as possible risk losing their seats. Why would they want to give the opposition ammunition for attack ads by having 20 or 30 extra members vote for the bill?

The RINOs often follow the same practice. They take turns providing the Democrats the bare minimum number of RINOs that they need to pass legislation. That lets the RINOs pretend to be real Republicans, but the reality is that they always come through for the Democrats when Hillary & company need them.

Nick| 1.20.10 @ 11:02AM

Siegfried X,

I heard last night that the House can't vote for the Senate bill as is, because of the tax provisions.

All revenue bills must originate in the House according to Article 1, Sec. 7 of the U.S. Constitution.

I believe ObamaCare is D-E-A-D, dead.
Buh-bye ObamaCare, buh-bye!

MTB| 1.20.10 @ 1:11PM

I think you're right, Siegfried. It ain't over until it's over, and if we (conservatives) let down now, relax, House dems (especially those who already know they won't be re-elected or are are planning to retire) may vote for the Senate version as their last great act. This is NOT a time to let down and become complacent. Pelosi is very smart and she just might pull this off. I hope not, and if she does, every dem who votes for it should be voted out of office.

Dan| 1.20.10 @ 10:24AM

Both democrats and republicans take note. The people are awake and aware. We want people in Washington who represent us and don't spend this country into oblivion. We held the republicans responsible and now we are holding the democrats responsible. Watch out Washington! Here come our votes.

Ken (Old Texican)| 1.20.10 @ 10:30AM

Before I even read the comments above...I want to put my two cents in.

Every one...I mean everyone here needs to fax their Senators today.
If they are Republicans, tell 'em to get out their throat spray, and buy some catheter/bags so they can filibuster forever without having to be excused for a bathroom break.
PS: Senators, there are some great novels that should be read instead of phonebooks...heh.

If your Senators are Democrats, faX THEM AND DARE THEM TO UTILIZE ANY SLEEZY TRICKS.

We at TEAM AMERICA are thrilled to have been a part of this. Our strategy works, folks. In concert with the tea party groups we are going to nationalize...every election we can find a great candidate for. We are going to cross State lines like a herd of buffalo. www.myteamusa.org

Bob| 1.20.10 @ 11:05AM

So let me get this straight, Philip. The liberal Democrats want ideological purity and eschew centrists and the conservative Republicans want ideological purity and eschew centrists. But it was the centrists that elected Scott Brown. Hmmmm....

I argue with the religious and uneducated nitwits on this blog, but I'm glad he was elected. The health care bill was an absolute mess that didn't address the major problem of health care -- cost. There was no tort reform or competitive market for insurance and no understanding that some form of rationing is necessary to lower costs. Given that health care is such a large part of the federal budget, you cannot address the budget issues without adequately addressing health care. As a fiscal conservative, I would embrace the repeal of antitrust provisions and letting people self-ration their own care by buying the plan that they want. But that will not happen because even the people here want to not pay for what they get in health care insurance.

And yes, I voted for Obama and would do it again if Palin was on the ticket. Give me a smart, educated Republican, and even if he/she is a devout Christian, I will vote for that person.

MTB| 1.20.10 @ 1:15PM

Man, I was right there with you Bob, until the last paragraph. That's okay, though, you can vote for radicalism/fascism/dictatorship again, if you want to. If Palin runs, and I hope she does, she'll win in a landslide.

wankel| 1.20.10 @ 11:33AM

Gaffe du jour - Chris Van Hollen's comments after the results were in:

“President George W. Bush and House Republicans drove our economy into a ditch and tried to run away from the accident."

As Oliver Hardy used to say "I seem to have committed a faux pas..."

JP| 1.20.10 @ 11:36AM

Bob,
There is no way that the GOP will nominate Palin. If they do, Palin will split the GOP vote and Obama wins. That is assuming that our President's approval rating remains above 30. If he dips into Truman/Bush territory I think that even I could win.

Bob| 1.20.10 @ 11:54AM

Reagan dropped to an approval rating of 38 in 1983. When the economy turned around (not due to anything he did), his approval rating increased. Obama is a smart guy with no executive experience. The economy will not turn around as fast this time because of the nature of the recession, but it will slightly improve. The key to Obama is his ability to learn to do his job and actually lead rather than campaign. He has surrounded himself with politicians rather than executives and that is a huge mistake. If he has the ability to learn his job, he will succeed as a centrist. If he moves politically to the left, he will not succeed. We'll see how smart he is.....

Todd S| 1.20.10 @ 1:02PM

There goes Bob again trying to discredit Reagan with his bullcrap. Reagan cut taxes and stupid regulations and the economy grew by almost 8% after the recession and inflation was killed thanks to his appointment of Volker. Bob the so-called fiscal conservative who voted for Obama and still has no shame because he is incapable of it. Obama doesn't know how to govern because he never has and only knows how to campaign as a demagogue. Centrist? Give me a damn break, this is the same guy that went to whitey capitalist hater Rev Wright's Church for 20 years while having Bill Ayers write Dreams of My Father for him. It should be entertaining watching Obama disintegrate before our eyes as a complete failure and Brown being elected will go down as Obama's Waterloo.

Ken (Old Texican)| 1.20.10 @ 12:58PM

I would nominate Sarah...in a Massachusetts minute.
You need to go to confession, JP, and ask forgiveness for your arrogance.

JP| 1.20.10 @ 1:12PM

Forgiveness for what? Is it arrogant to say I am not in the Palin corner? If the truth be told there isn't one GOP national politician out there that like for 2012 Presidential Election save Dick Cheney. Palin may give a good speech, and she has the Reaganesque ability to take a punch and not flinch, but she is not my idea of a President.

Andrew| 1.20.10 @ 2:24PM

Not yet, that is. (?) I think most serious observers would agree that she's not presidential material...today. But the next prez campaign is still in the future. By then, who knows? (And yet, she's BETTER prez material right now than the CURRENT occupant of 1600 Pennsylvania Ave.)

Liberal Reader| 1.20.10 @ 11:36AM

There is no question this election was a defeat of the health care reform bill(s) being pushed through Congress by Democrats. (To call it "Obamacare," while rhetorically effective, is not very accurate.)

Democrats failed to do three crucially important things:

1. Democrats failed to answer the impassioned questions put to them by people in last summer's town hall meetings. People had a right to ask, "What business does the government have getting more involved in health care?" They had a right to ask, and Democrats had a duty to articulate a clear, honest answer. They failed.

2. Democrats failed to craft legislation that could be understood by the American people. In fact, they seem to have failed to craft legislation that most of their own representatives in Congress understand. In their zeal for total overall of the system, they generated a Behemoth of laws no one is willing to defend in a simple speech lasting fewer than three minutes. If you can't go on the nightly news and explain why you want a bill passed so that the average person understands your argument, you don't deserve to win.

3. Democrats failed to make clear why they think health care reform will improve the prospects for long term economic growth. If, as they claim, such prospects would indeed improve, they failed to explain why and how.

Democrats seem to think that by virtue of their better ideas and good intentions they somehow DESERVE to hold office. This isn't true. The only person that DESERVES to hold office in this country is the person elected by the people. If you can't explain your policy proposals clearly, you don't deserve to get them passed.

That's my take.

One last thing. Every American has the right to medical care if he or she is sick. It is NOT a privilege, as Limbaugh claims. Like education and roads, medical care is a part of the basic infrastructure of a widening, growing, strengthening middle class -- the foundation of a healthy democracy.

Bob| 1.20.10 @ 12:03PM

"Every American has the right to medical care if he or she is sick."

Ah, Liberal.... nice platitude but the devil is in the details. Half of medicare expense is in the last year of life. Does a 90 year old have the "right" to unlimited care in a hospital? How far do we go in providing care to people with cancer? What about transplants for people who have drunk too much? What about preventative care? What about unneeded tests due to lawyers? Platitudes like yours are the problem. We cannot run a fiscally responsible government and give everything to everyone. I would let old people die -- and I'm one of them. I would not give experimental procedures to cancer patients. In a capitalist democracy, you have the right to PAY for that extra care, but you do not have the right to ask ME to pay for it.

Liberal Reader| 1.20.10 @ 1:08PM

Your argument is that because old age would involve our society in thorny, complicated, difficult questions, we should adopt a "Pay or Die" medical care system. I reject this.

When I say every American has a "right" to medical care, I'm saying the same thing any sensible person says when he says every American has a "right" to a basic, decent education at no or little cost.

Sure, there are great private schools. Sure, there are problems with public education. But the "right" -- insisted upon by the Founding Fathers, including most passionately Thomas Jefferson -- while not a "right" in the narrowest sense, is broadly seen by the American people to be real.

Andrew| 1.20.10 @ 2:31PM

How many "rights" in the Constitution compel someone ELSE to pay for your right to exercise those rights? Can I compel you to buy me a gun? Can I compel you to provide me with a free speech platform? Can I compel you to pay for my ride to the polls to vote? I think the Left plays a little too fast and loose with the word "rights." If health care is a right, where, exactly, is it protected in the Constitution? For the Constitution doesn't GRANT our rights, it PROTECTS our rights that exist in the natural.

And as for the "right" to a decent education "at no or little cost," who, then, pays for that education? Is it free? Do teachers do pro bono work? Are schools build by pro bono construction companies? Public education is NOT "at no or little cost," and oftentimes it is MORE expensive than private education, and delivers a far worse product. Public education is NOT "no cost." Those who use it pay for it with taxes; those who don't use it...pay for it with taxes. See, this is why we cannot trust America's finances (or national security, but that's a whole 'nother story) with the Left.

Liberal Reader| 1.20.10 @ 2:51PM

Andrew --

Again, the word "right" can be narrowly or broadly understood.

If you like, I'll put it differently:

Just as a healthy democracy depends upon an informed citizenry, it depends upon a healthy, economically stable middle class that has proper access to medical care. Therefore, just as the government should ensure that the people have some measure of decent education for little or no cost, it must also ensure that the people have decent health care.

I'm happy to drop the "right" language if that is a sticking point. I'm not attached to it.

However, I believe you and your family are entitled to quality medical care EVEN IF you cannot afford it not just because I'm a swell guy, but because it is a principle of our nation's founding that people have a RIGHT TO LIFE. That right is enumerated BEFORE the right to liberty, and BEFORE the right to the pursuit of happiness (where Locke had listed the "right to property"). I make no Constitutional argument, but there doesn't need to be one. The Constitution does not foreclose the possibility of there being Medicare or Social Security: neither does it foreclose the possibility of there being universal health coverage for all Americans no matter what.

Andrew| 1.20.10 @ 6:24PM

The Constitution doesn't foreclose the possibility of there being Medicare or SS, true, but neither of those are "rights." Entitlement programs are not "rights." You agree to drop the "right" language, but in so doing you remove your raison d'etre when it comes to health care. The Left is forever pronouncing health care as a "right." Well, is it or isn't it? Is it a "right" or is it, like Medicare, an entitlement? If the latter, then we're under no Constitutional requirement to provide it. You and the Left can push for it, but don't hide behind the emotionally charged word "right." You seem willing to avoid the word, which is good, but then your effort is merely one of trying to establish another entitlement. Let's call a spade a spade.

And to reiterate, there IS not "decent education at little or no cost." Everyone who pays the taxes that fund education pay for education. Whether through property taxes or sales taxes or whatever, education is not provided to ANYone at little or no cost.

Andrew| 1.20.10 @ 6:31PM

Also, if I'm "entitled to quality medical care," am I not also entitled to those things that would mitigate the need for quality medical care? If the American taxpayer must provide me with quality medical care, since "Life" is the first of the enumerated rights, then why shouldn't the American taxpayer provide me with the proper foods, nutrients, and physical exercise necessary to reduce my need for health care, and to increase my chances at a "healthy, economically stable" life? Or is the health care that the American taxpayer must provide me ONLY the care necessary to fix things when they go wrong? Since doctors recommend proper nutrition and exercise all the time, aren't those part of "health care?" So shouldn't broccoli and cold-water fish and my local gym be part of what's provided to my under "Universal Health Care?"

Sue| 1.24.10 @ 2:40AM

Each of us has a "right to access" medical care. The government cannot deny us this access. We don't have a "right" to receive medical care at someone elses's expense. Big difference, don't you know.

There is not a problem with "access" in this Country. The Democrats want to make it a "right" so they can retain political power. They don't care a rat's a$$ about your medical needs. Only their own power.

With complete government control over the healthcare "system" the very right they tried to create will become rationing and the "right to access" (freedom of choice) will be denied.

Now there's a conundrum. The right they falsely created, becomes inaccessible for some. (Mammograms for those age 40 - 50 because the government numbers just don't support them.)

MTB| 1.20.10 @ 1:28PM

I don't believe medical care is a "right"; however, I do believe that the richest country in the world should be able to provide care to it's citizens, but not the way Obama wants to. There are better, more affordable ways to meet this goal without socializing it in a government that can even keep it's postal system solvent. I agree with Bob. There comes a time in every life where medical science isn't the answer and it's time to let go, but that decision should be made by the patient, the doctor(s), and the family. Not by a bureaucrat. And in this country, if those parties agree that life saving measures should be taken, then by damn, those measures should be taken without regard to how or who is going to pay for it. Not when we, as a nation, spend millions or billions of dollars on rap music, pornography, vacations, etc. I think life is more important than entertainment, but I don't want it managed by the government.

JMM| 1.20.10 @ 11:55AM

Didn't I once hear of another state senator, who won a slam dunk election against a dufus and then as a one term Senator go onto win another easy election? What WAS his name? Something foreign sounding if I remember. Brake? Hussass? I duuno, something like that.

--- On Wed, 1/20/

MTB| 1.20.10 @ 1:29PM

LOL, JMM.

Ken (Old Texican)| 1.20.10 @ 11:58AM

Thank you for finally seeing the light, Lib.

Something you must not be aware of: Every American...every American...already has the best medical care that human hands can provide. Period Paragraph!
ANY AMERICAN can enter a hospital via the emergency room, then be admitted as an indigent for surgery/s and or a full course of medicine treatment.
Interestingly enough, that hospital with the best emergency room...will also be a "teaching hospital".
Some of the finest doctors in America work there and teach there.

Bob| 1.20.10 @ 12:10PM

Tex, I thought you were the CEO of a Fortune company? You should know better than to make dumb remarks like that. Statistics show that we do not have the best health care system in the world -- by far. Would you measure your company performance by not looking at the income statement?

We do have the best care for about 70% of our population and have some of the worst care for about 30% of the population. The average for that care puts us lower on the totem pole. A managed, national system would worsen the care for the 70% and provide better care for the 30% thus providing a higher average.

Talk to your actuaries and learn something about business analysis.

Ken (Old Texican)| 1.20.10 @ 1:04PM

Bob,
Don't cross any busy streets. You are not competent to do so.

....See, "on average", in a 24 hour period there will be no autos to run over your dumb arse.
heh.

Bob| 1.20.10 @ 2:01PM

Ad hominem attacks will get you nowhere as long as you continue to show your lack of cerebral activity. At least I don't have to worry about your car hitting me -- you have trouble enough finding the street....

Andrew| 1.20.10 @ 2:35PM

Bob, provide some substance to your assertion that "we do not have the best health care system in the world -- by far." What's your proof, your evidence, your sources, your stats? I can thoroughly debunk your silly assertion, but I need to know WHAT you're using as your support so I'll know what direction to aim my fire.

Bob| 1.20.10 @ 2:59PM

Andrew, we are ranked 37th by the World Health Organization.

http://www.photius.com/rankings/healthranks.html

While I don't agree with some of the data, when I run the numbers, it doesn't seem to make much difference. From a mathematical perspective, most people who "debunk" this information utilize microanalysis rather than macroanalysis. Now please show me YOUR stats to show we are the best in all measured categories. You can't? I didn't expect it...

Ken (Old Texican)| 1.20.10 @ 4:00PM

Bob...heh heh heh...
The world Health Organization LIVES on our leftovers.
Of course they slap us.

Without us giving them scraps...they would ALL die, the same as the United Nations.

Andrew| 1.20.10 @ 6:34PM

Typical response from the Left - the straw man argument. Please quote back to me exactly where I said that "we are the best in all measured categories."

Andrew| 1.20.10 @ 6:50PM

According to Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development data, there were 26.6 MRI machines in the U.S. per million people in 2004. In Canada, there were 4.9 such devices, while Britain enjoyed 5. For every 100,000 Americans, 2006 saw 436.8 receive angioplasties. Among Canadians, that figure was 135.9, while only 93.2 Britons per 100,000 got that cardiac procedure.

Maybe that’s why, among American men, heart-attack deaths in 2004 stood at 53.8 per 100,000. In Canada, 58.3 men per 100,000 died of cardiac arrest, while coronaries buried 69.5 of every 100,000 British males.

The fatality rate for breast cancer, according to the National Center for Policy Analysis and Lancet Oncology, is 25 percent in the U.S., 28 percent in Canada, and 46 percent in Great Britain.

Among those diagnosed with prostate cancer, 19 percent die of the disease in America. In Canada, 25 percent of such patients succumb to this disease. And in Great Britain — an Anglophone NATO member and America’s closest ally — prostate cancer kills 57 percent of those who contract it. That is triple the American fatality rate.

Then there's the life expectancy canard. According to a 1997 report by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, the homicide rate with firearms alone was 16 times higher in the U.S. than in 25 other industrialized countries combined.

That will tend to reduce the U.S.'s "life expectancy" numbers, while telling us absolutely nothing about the country's medical care. (I promise that if you make it to a hospital alive, you are more likely to survive a gunshot wound in the U.S. than any place else in the world.)

It's comparing apples and oranges to talk about life expectancy as if it tracks with a country's health care system. What matters is the survival rate from the same starting line, to wit, the same medical condition. Not surprisingly, in the apples-to-apples comparisons, the U.S. medical system crushes the welfare-state countries.

Andrew| 1.20.10 @ 7:00PM

As for your beloved WHO (World Health Organization), it believes that we could have done better because we do not have universal coverage. What apparently does not matter is that our population has universal access because most physicians treat indigent patients without charge and accept Medicare and Medicaid payments, which do not even cover overhead expenses. The WHO does rank the U.S. No. 1 of 191 countries for "responsiveness to the needs and choices of the individual patient." Isn't responsiveness what health care is all about?

Data assembled by Dr. Ronald Wenger and published recently in the Bulletin of the American College of Surgeons indicates that cardiac deaths in the U.S. have fallen by two-thirds over the past 50 years. Polio has been virtually eradicated. Childhood leukemia has a high cure rate. Eight of the top 10 medical advances in the past 20 years were developed or had roots in the U.S.

The Nobel Prizes in medicine and physiology have been awarded to more Americans than to researchers in all other countries combined. Eight of the 10 top-selling drugs in the world were developed by U.S. companies. The U.S. has some of the highest breast, colon and prostate cancer survival rates in the world. And our country ranks first or second in the world in kidney transplants, liver transplants, heart transplants, total knee replacements, coronary artery bypass, and percutaneous coronary interventions.

We have the shortest waiting time for nonemergency surgery in the world; England has one of the longest. In Canada, a country of 35 million citizens, 1 million patients now wait for surgery and another million wait to see specialists.

When cardiac surgeon Peter Alivizatos returned to Greece after 10 years heading the heart transplantation program at Baylor University in Dallas, the one-year heart transplant survival rate there was 50%—five-year survival was only 35%. He soon increased those numbers to 94% one-year and 90% five-year survival, which is what we achieve in the U.S.

So the next time you hear that the U.S. is No. 37, remember that Greece is No. 14. Cuba, by the way, is No. 39.

Bob| 1.20.10 @ 8:29PM

So, Andrew, do you actually think about the numbers you present? Let's take the MRI machines for example. The numbers you used do not take into account utilization. Studies show that Canadian MRI machines are used much more frequently than those in the U.S. In terms of actual MRI's the numbers are far closer. And yes, higher utilization causes longer waits.

For cardiac arrest, you should look at this comparative table by country:

http://www.nationmaster.com/gr.....per-capita

Your other "statistics" are just as questionable because you don't seem to understand how the data is collected.

But the big problem with your perspective is that for these results, we pay almost twice as much. I guess saving money doesn't mean anything to you. Now, if you calculate these numbers on results per dollar, we really lose as a country. We have the least efficient health care system in the world.

Don't get me wrong, I get great health care and have great doctors. But then again, I have good insurance and money to spend. The fact is that you just don't know what you're talking about!!!

Andrew| 1.21.10 @ 12:56PM

And if Canada had a single MRI machine, its utilization rate would be off the charts! I doubt you're actually advocating for us to have a single MRI machine in all of America, so that our "utilization" looks good compared to everyone else.

And have you now changed your argument from "we're 37th in the world" to "we have the least efficient health care system in the world?" Because if it's the latter, then all we're talking about is efficiency, not quality. And I'll take an inefficient system that delivers the BEST health care in the world over an efficient system that delivers UK-style health care.

As I suspect most Americans would.

Tell you what, if (God forbid) you suffer a health crisis, go abroad for your care. Put your money where your mouth is. If we're really #37 in the world, then go to #1 if you get sick.

But don't go to the #1 country when it comes to "responsiveness to the needs and choices of the individual patient." By that inconsequential measure, America is #1.

Go to Greece. Or Cuba. Just be sure to update your will before you go.

Andrew| 1.20.10 @ 7:03PM

The ball's in your court, Bob.

Mike| 1.20.10 @ 12:04PM

That is the most lucid post I have ever read from you. I couldn't agree with your 3 points more.

However, I think you and the liberal left do a great injustice to the English language and reality when you claim that something is a "right" just because it is a want or a need.

All of the rights enumerated in our Constitution do not depend upon denying another's rights. "Rights" such as healthcare or a job require the police power of the state. Your "right" to healthcare requires me to pay for it or for the state to force doctors into involuntary servitude.

Life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. Add to that the bill of rights. All else are wants and needs.

Mike Johnston
SFC USA (RET)

Margie| 1.20.10 @ 12:21PM

El Rushbo said today~ "For the first time in my life I'm proud of Massachusetts!"

...and~ "Mary-Jo, this one's for you!" Ha!

Love him.. it's a win for Massachusetts and for the United States of America!

RAMIII| 1.20.10 @ 5:40PM

The irony is sweet.

The "icon" of the Senate was finally "buried" by the voters of Massachusetts

solo| 1.20.10 @ 12:30PM

Liberal Reader Wrote:

"One last thing. Every American has the right to medical care if he or she is sick. It is NOT a privilege, as Limbaugh claims. Like education and roads, medical care is a part of the basic infrastructure of a widening, growing, strengthening middle class -- the foundation of a healthy democracy. "

No...we are NOT a democracy--healthy or otherwise. We are a Constitutional Republic
Which means that, regardless of what the masses want, they cannot force me under penalty of imprisonment to buy them "stuff". That's a form of slavery.

Other than that...

The real reason that "ObamaCare" failed was because the American people figured out that the legislation was NOT about providing healthcare. It was about controlling 1/6th of the economy.

The whole premise behind the legislation was to insure the un-insured. The legislation (by their own admission) left over 12 1/2 Million un-insured. And all this for the low, low price of only $1.8 Trillion!

We could pay for the insurance of all 46 million (a lie in the first place) for $30 Billion per year. So...why the 2500 pages of gobbledigook and almost $2 Trillion that we can't afford?

It was never about Health Care. It was about gathering more power to "The State". The very "State" that the 14 pages that organized the formation of an entire Nation specifically sought to prevent in the first place.

It's time to take the country back from this Mob-ocracy that the leftists have created. The only way to maintain a "healthy" society is for that society to live in liberty--not the tyranny of the re-distributionists.

Read Article One, Section 8 and find for me "Health Care".

Black Saint | 1.20.10 @ 1:07PM

In my view - - this has all come to pass because the Politicians, the elected and sworn stewards of this country, both Republicans & Democrats have allowed it to happen. Surely they should have known better when they build bridges to nowhere, when they wasted 100,s of billion in pork and sold their votes to the highest bidder.…when they refused to abide by the Constitution against invasion,refused to enforce the very laws they passed, or to honor their Oath of Office! They have disgraced and brought shame upon our Nation. One way this Nation can start to recover is for the lot of them to be gone from those hallowed halls of Congress and the White House, because most of them have become a house of party-bound Prostitutes paid by the special interests, swirling and partying, amidst the rubble of their own malfeasance - taking this Nation right down in the gutter & to an third world status with them.

If the Politicians with the Citizens support, decide they must do more for the worlds poor then they must find a way like an Marshall plan for Latin American it is far better to spend the trillion of dollars the Welfare, Schooling, Law Enforcement, etc. Amnesty will cost this Nation on an Marshall plan for Latin American . What they must not be allowed to do, though flawed logic, false compassion, or by criminal intent is to turn this Nation into a Cesspool of Crime, Corruption, Poverty, and Misery modeled on Mexico by continuing the open borders policy and Amnesty for the millions of uneducated peons and criminals pouring across our borders.

As a concerned American that served my Country in time of War as did my Father, my two brothers and my son. I am appalled and very angry at what self severing, stupid/corrupt politicians have done to my country!

Black Saint| 1.20.10 @ 1:15PM

We have an demoralized and decimated military, plundered treasury , trashed world standing, trampled rule of Law and Constitution. This nation is sinking under debt & millions of Americans unemployed and losing the American dream. While our Politicians engage in back room deals and corruption so open and blatant the take us for complete fools. While an tidal wave of Uneducated Illegal Aliens are waving the Mexican flag, demanding their rights, while sucking at the trough of Public Welfare, as they Kill, Rob, and Rape thousands of American Citizens each year at a rate terrorist can dream about.

But POTUS & the Democrats are pandering for the Latino vote by promising Amnesty for the 20 to 30 million of the invading criminals, plus with chain immigration to all their relatives & their relatives in an never ending chain!

We as a nation can survive fools in our White House. What we CANNOT survive is fools both in our Congress and white house. promising a new American, rebuilding the middle class and taking care of the poor while advocating policies that will turn this Nation into an Third World Spanish speaking Nation!

What the Politicians refuse to acknowledge or recognize is no single Nation or people is rich enough to lift the 100,s of millions of poor out of poverty. In others words American & American taxpayers cannot bear the cost of becoming the welfare state for Mexico and Latin American. To attempt to do so will only reduce all Americans to poverty equaling what the uneducated invaders have in hundreds of years build, sustained and are now fleeing from in their home countries.

The poor and criminals pouring across our Borders have an average of an six grade education with is about on the level of an third grade here. Each head of house hold with less than a high education Legal or Illegal is a net cost of 20k per year for American taxpayers. So the displaced compassion, flawed logic, or just pandering for votes, endorsed by the politicians is deeply flawed.

Failure to close our border or to give Amnesty to the 20 to 30 millions of Illegal Aliens in this country will in the long run, with the Chain Immigration for their relatives and their relatives in an never ending chain will result in adding 100,s of millions poor uneducated citizens to our welfare rolls and in our prisons . Their high school drop out rates exceed 50 percent with a high crime rate and a very high illegitimate birth rate, this is very combination that keeps Mexico & Latin American mired in a cesspool of crime, corruption, poverty & misery!

Maybe the results of Obama amnesty is what the Democrat Politicians, multinational companies, The Chamber of Commence and the Liberals dream of, an congested, polluted, third world Welfare Nation full of Democrat voters & poor labors like China, India, Mexico, but I do not believe it is the future most Americans aspire to for their children and grand children!

My country, a potential benefactor and beacon for all the world - is headed right off a cliff and to an third world status!

Ken (Old Texican)| 1.20.10 @ 4:03PM

Black Saint..........WELCOME!

Are you in fact a black person?
Good thoughts, regardless.

Welcome to our conversation.
Ken

Kevin Walsh| 1.20.10 @ 2:05PM

Sen. Evan Bayh is an opportunist who changes direction as often as the wind that blows across Indiana. He has fooled many in the media that he is a moderate and fiscally conservative. He never wavered in his support of Obamacare and the dreadful eternal deficit is would cause. Sen. Bayh should set his alarm clock first.

martin j smith| 1.20.10 @ 2:30PM

here is what i think happened. A lot of people in Mass, are not as stupid as the Democrat Left thought.
They asked this question : are will and will we be better off now than we were a year ago. The answer was NO !!
So they voted against the incumbent party In addition, they were aware of the nefarious nature of the way the Democrat Left was engineering what amounts to a coup and to that they said: NO
Now you watch the so called "moderates" or pseudo moderates come out of the woodwork and talk about making nicey nicey to Republicans and conservatives. What a bunch of BS that will be. But yes, the American people spoke.

Bob| 1.20.10 @ 3:00PM

Andrew, we are ranked 37th by the World Health Organization.

http://www.photius.com/rankings/healthranks.html

TParty4USA| 1.20.10 @ 3:16PM

Enjoy very much watching all these dems try to out-teabag each other. Maybe we'll even see them actually responding to -- as opposed to arrogantly dissing and ignoring -- all those calls, emails, and letters from their constituents.

Paraphrasing Clinton's admonition to dems in caucus, these hogs in Congress needed to have the corn put out there for them to see it more clearly. Thanks Mass for showing those hogs the corn!!!

doug| 1.20.10 @ 3:34PM

if the dems want to shove this thru/like rocky told mr. t/ GO FOR IT!!!!!!

MarkJ| 1.20.10 @ 5:20PM

Knowing Nancy Pelosi as we do, the only way we'll really know ObamaReidPelosiCare is dead is when we (figuratively) shoot it with silver bullets, chop off its head, drive a stake through its heart, stuff its mouth full of garlic, put a crucifix on its chest, and bury the stinking corpse face down in a holy water-filled coffin under ten feet of concrete.

When we do all that, then I'll rest easy about ObamaReidPelosiCare.

Visceral Rebellion| 1.23.10 @ 8:41PM

I haven't laughed that hard in months! All great commedy has a huge element of truth. Thank you!

gearjammer| 1.20.10 @ 5:21PM

Bob in what area are we not best or close to best when a person is actually ill and needs treatment ? Insurance or no insurance. You are an idiot. Those horror stories from countries with socialized medicine Bob , ever read about them ? Guess what Bob they are not horror stories. They are routine every day events in the lives of those blessed to live in the fab 36 rated above the USA, and just who the bleep is the WHO to tell us we suck, we pay to much per capita for health care. Screw them, the Hague, the UN and every other fiddlebleeping international organization of useless louts who dare tell us what to do and how to live. WELCOME TO THE REAL AMERICA BOB-YOU DON'T LIKE IT SCREW ! WERE GONNA START THINNING THE HERD OF AHOLES LIKE YOU DAMN SOON. Replace your sorry ass with some decent hardworking legal immigrants who will appreciate and love this nation.

Bob| 1.21.10 @ 8:44AM

So, are you saying there are no horror stories in the U.S.? No wrong amputations? No surgical instruments left inside? No hospital infections? Perhaps an education would help you with your mental deficiency issue.

Visceral Rebellion| 1.23.10 @ 8:44PM

The difference between our medical issues and the socialists' medical issues is source and scale.

Socialist Source & Scale: the government is the source, and they ensure all but the preferred class are the scale

US Source and Scale: Individual errors are the source, and the rare individual is the scale.

Which do you prefer?

Liberal Reader| 1.20.10 @ 7:03PM

The Democrats won't try to pass the health care legislation before Brown is seated. It would be politically awful. AND, believe it or not, I don't think it would be considered fair, and I think that DOES matter to some people in Washington.

I know you've been programed to think the absolute worst at all times of politicians, but I don't think that such a jaundiced, cynical, frog's-eyed view of them is always warranted -- although surely it's often rewarded.

The election in MA was a very, very big deal. No question. Republicans deserve a night of celebration.

That said, Democrats still have an 18 vote majority in the Senate. That will continue to count, thank God. It's just that the Democrats will have to think about how to overcome their hubris.

Truth to Power| 1.20.10 @ 7:06PM

"...Democrats still have an 18 vote majority in the Senate..."

Patience little reader.

TJK| 1.20.10 @ 8:19PM

I think we just need to be careful about getting our heads too far ahead of our skis. I am just as happy as most others here that Mr. Brown beat the odds, the media trying to swing the vote, and the democratic machine. But, healthcare reform is certainly not dead by any means. While most of the rank and file SEEM to be wanting to play by the rules and let Mr. Brown be seated prior to any vote, do not doubt for a second that Harry Reid and Nancy Pelosi are looking for any way to twist, break or simply ignore procedure rules. You have Barney Fwank pushing to eliminate or change the filibuster rules, and you have the dems now saying that they will push through smaller bills through reconciliation instead. I don't wish to be a downer, but the fight is far from over here. The dems are notorious for changing established rules when those rule are working against them. Capt. Kirk said it best in "Star Trek 6" when talking about the Klingons, and I say the same about dems: "Don't trust them."

Bob| 1.20.10 @ 8:30PM

For cardiac arrest, you should look at this comparative table by country:

http://www.nationmaster.com/gr.....per-capita

Your other "statistics" are just as questionable because you don't seem to understand how the data is collected.

Don't get me wrong, I get great health care and have great doctors. But then again, I have good insurance and money to spend. The fact is that you just don't know what you're talking about!!!

Nick| 1.21.10 @ 12:20AM

Andrew,

Pay no attention to 3/5 Bob, as he is known around here.

Until recently (last June), he thought that blacks had 3/5 of a vote under the U.S. Constitution, as originally written.

He also doesn't know the scientific fact of when biological human life begins because he's not sure when "ensoulment' happens.

3/5 Bob is a psuedointellectual and not worth your time.

bay area reader| 1.21.10 @ 2:30AM

About fifteen miles back, a comment was made
that "Boxer is next" - with some reference to her only claim to fame... Well, years ago we had a SF radio talk show host who knew everything about the California legislative body. One of the "bodies" at one time, was the diminutive Assemblywoman Barbara Boxer. SF Radio Host said she was known as "The Woman in the Wall" - He said there existed in the august chambers in Sacramento, a (this sounds spooky) wall that slid aside revealing space behind it. Said space used for a hanky- panky retreat of sorts. As this story went out over the airwaves with regularity, along with his reference to Teddy "No Pants" Kennedy and she never got him fired... that may not be her only claim to fame. As to the "No Pants" nick-name, recall when Kennedy nephew Smith was standing trial for raping a girl he picked up in a bar in Palm Beach? She testified, describing the Palm Beach home, that prior to her seduction out on the beach, she was in the living room of the Kennedy home and Teddy stumbled through, clad only in shirt and his undewear. Jim, the talk show host, gleefully dubbed him Teddy No Pants. I don't know who named her "The Woman in the Wall." But please call her Senator. She worked hard for that title.

Corley Fiorini (sp?) was interviewed on TV recently, with a stubble of hair re-grownwg from her bot with cancer. The interviewer asked her about facing the formidable incumbent, Boxer. Corley rubbed her close cropped head and said "I just beat cancer - Boxer doesn't scare me!" She's got my vote.

Can you imagine being a conservative, living in California, represented by Boxer. Feinstein, the delusional Pelosi and (for me) Jackie Speier , who owes her career to getting shot on the tarmac in Jonestown, when she was Leo Ryan's aide? All power mad and post-menopausal!

bay aree reader| 1.21.10 @ 2:37AM

clarification: that would be "stubble...re-growing from bout" not "bot".... it's late in California

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Christmas 2010| 9.16.10 @ 5:32AM

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