Streetcar Line
Thermopylae for Health Care
The necessity of heroism — is that too much to ask of Republicans?
Conservatives want Thermopylae. Congressional Republican leaders instead imitate the Confederate defense of Atlanta — the one that led a local editor to write that General Joseph E. Johnston’s reputation had “grown with every backward step.”
Thermopylae, of course, was where the famed “300” Spartans (and about 1,200 others) fought off many tens of thousands of Persians for three full days, with their courageous sacrifice helping the Greeks eventually win the war. The defense of Northwest Georgia, on the other hand, showed that Johnston was adept at putting up a united front, seizing excellent defensive positions in well-drilled fashion — and then retreating time after time in perfect order, saving his army for a “later” that never came while inflicting only glancing damage on his enemy as the Yankees gobbled up territory like a horde of Pac-Men… until Atlanta and eventually the whole of Georgia fell to the onslaught.
In the battle over health-care policy (and in most other big fights in recent years), Senate Republicans likewise have maintained unity, have arrayed themselves on favorable ground, have performed every technical maneuver with flawless precision — and have yet to win a single major battle about which conservatives care deeply. And like the local Atlanta editor in 1864 praising Gen. Johnston’s retreats, the McClatchy newspapers even published a story last month about Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell’s parliamentary tactics headlined “Skillful McConnell leads GOP opposition to health bill.”
But the McConnell forces recessed for Christmas crowing that in return for giving up more ground (in this case, the ground was another 10 hours of potential Christmas Eve debate that could have been symbolically important) on a final health-care ballot, they secured an early vote, supposedly uncomfortable for Democrats, on raising the national debt limit. Yes, the debt limit, which has been raised almost every year for the past half-century without shaking the political earth.
What infuriates conservatives is the attitudinal signals the Senate leadership sends. The health care bill is treated as just another piece of legislation — certainly more important than most, as Atlanta was a more important city than most, but not ground to be defended by every available means, to the death, as if a civilization hangs in the balance the way Greek civilization was threatened by the Persians. Yet for millions upon many tens of millions of Americans, the health-care battle is indeed their generation’s domestic version of the Greco-Persian War, and nothing less than a Thermopylae-like stand will be acceptable. These middle-Americans don’t want amendments to the bills. They don’t want to force bill supporters into tough votes that will be used against them in the 2010 fall campaigns. They don’t care about positioning for future battles on other legislative subjects, and they don’t give a flying expletive about maintaining the alleged dignity of the Senate.
What they want is to beat Obamacare: They want to ward off this abomination, this vicious assault on the Constitution and on the free market, this affront to individual liberty in a realm that is intensely and profoundly personal. They want to defeat it, trip it up, smother it, by any and all means within the law. They hate Obamacare. They see a government that already has taken over banks and financial companies and car companies, a government blob that wants to limit the very air we exhale, and they see it now trying to suck in one-sixth of the whole economy in one massive power grab.
And the people say no. They say no at TEA parties. They say no at town hall meetings. They say no at Capitol demonstrations. They say no in emails and faxes and phone calls and letters, and they repeatedly and resoundingly say no in public-opinion polls. They don’t just say no; they shout NO with every breath of carbon dioxide in their lungs. Yet what they see is a Democratic leadership that wants to trample them, and a Republican leadership that defends them by daintily offering some amendments and making some speeches and then changing the subject to the debt limit.
Middle Americans want a Churchillian fight at the beaches, landing grounds, fields, streets, and hills, yet what they see instead is a series of “unanimous consent” agreements interspersed with some really severe tut-tutting. And they see a horrid future of Chuck Schumers — William Sherman-like — laying waste to what they hold dear.
Oh, sure, Sen. McConnell is a good man who has been working hard, very hard, to block Obamacare. But so too did Gen. Johnston work hard. So too do lots of losers work hard. But they don’t work effectively. They don’t use every means at their disposal. They don’t crawl over broken glass to win. They don’t say “Nuts” to Nazi surrender demands. They don’t see Santa Anna and, like Jim Bowie, pull out an eponymous knife and fight to the death.
What many Republican senators still don’t seem to understand is that the health-care fight isn’t merely one fight in a larger war; it is the war. Lose it, and we can’t reverse, not ever, the massive infringement on our liberties. It is tommyrot and poppycock, deeply dishonest, to claim that Obamacare, once passed, can later be repealed. Once it is law, the only way to change it is to pass a new law — and to do that would require overcoming a Democratic filibuster far more fierce than any that Republicans have put up. Republicans now hold 40 Senate votes out of 100; to repeal Obamacare in future years will require 60 votes. Yet only 33 (or 34) senators come up for re-election every two years. To think that Obamacare opponents will pick up 20 seats in time to reverse course before it fully takes effect — especially against the weight of all the big businesses that in the meantime will have become stakeholders in the new system — is akin to suggesting that Sen. McConnell can successfully hitch-hike to Jupiter on the back of a tricycle.
On the other hand, stopping this juggernaut shouldn’t be as difficult as it has been made out to be. Politicians being politicians, there absolutely must be at least one Democratic senator, or three more House members, who care enough about their own political skin to buck their party leaders. No single major proposal in generations has generated such strong opposition. With more than 60 percent of the public against Obamacare — and more opponents passionately against it than the combined total of all its proponents, mild or passionate alike — it is inconceivable that Republicans can’t talk a few Democrats into the more popular position.
Sen. McConnell could pledge to Nebraska’s Democrat Ben Nelson, for instance, that if he joins a successful Republican filibuster then the National Republican Senatorial Committee would not raise even a single finger against him for re-election in 2012. The price would be worth it. But if Nelson still won’t play, McConnell could come up with myriad ways to cut Nelson in half.
Indiana’s Evan Bayh should be made to sweat, too. House Republican Conference Chairman Mike Pence, for instance, could take a risk his idol Jack Kemp never took, and announce before the Senate vote that he will give up his safe House seat to try to send Bayh bye. As William Kristol has argued, even a losing effort would set up Pence for a run for governor in 2012; a winning effort would vault him into the front tier of presidential contenders. If Pence won’t do it, former U.S. Rep. David McIntosh has a statewide following in the Hoosier state, and could give Bayh fits in what is becoming a strong GOP year. Heck, even Dan Quayle, if he would move back from Arizona, could ride the Obamacare issue to a strong challenge to Bayh in the Fall.
And Democrat Blanche Lincoln of Arkansas already knows she is in grave political danger. Have her Republican colleagues offered her any legal inducements to come their way?
Procedurally, also, McConnell could do far more. He could tell Majority Leader Harry Reid that he will tie the Senate in knots for the entire year unless Reid backs down. No unanimous consents all year. Holds on every nominee. Every single one. Forced readings of every word of every bill and every amendment, all year.
About the Author
Quin Hillyer is a senior editor of The American Spectator and a senior fellow at the Center for Individual Freedom. Follow him on Twitter @QuinHillyer.
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Pingback| 1.7.10 @ 6:24AM
Twitter Trackbacks for The American Spectator : Thermopylae for Health Care [spectat links to this page. Here’s an excerpt:
Corkie| 1.7.10 @ 7:34AM
Very well said!
I have never understood why republicans have always treasured so-called respect from the opposition over the full faith and support of their own constituents. Instead of heroes, we have wusses that follow the enemy wimpering into the night. They just don't get it - they are only useful, reliable tools for the other side.
This political war we are in is every bit as threatening to our liberty as a shooting war. Republicans are far more terrified of receiving the same treatment the press heaps on Sarah Palin than they are of losing the war. We're not asking for liberty or death here, we're asking for liberty or loss of congressional seats.
Michael Steele's recent comments are a perfect example of why we have a total vacuum of opposition in this country. The republicans wouldn't have a clue about what to do with a full majority in congress. God save us all! The politicians have proven over and over that they are incapable.
Alan Brooks| 1.7.10 @ 7:54AM
The Cold War has been over for 20 years, and now the GOP is superfluous-- no longer merely clueless.
Truth to Power| 1.7.10 @ 8:47AM
Brooks needs to stop drinking. Even in the morning he doesn't make any sense.
Worry01| 1.7.10 @ 10:05PM
He seems to want a one-party state. It is nice to see the Hugo Chavez faction of the Democratic Party here this evening.
FosterBDAV66| 1.11.10 @ 11:33AM
There is only one real political war being engaged in. And people like me, Centrist Independents and everyone to the left of me are watching as you tear yourselves apart.
I've seen the claim that there is a "Civil War between 'real' Patriots and the 'others'" and see it for the bald faced lie it is. The first problem with that claim is that it discounts people like me. It implies that because I am not with you on the far right (a very marginalized place to be, even if you are loud and boisterous) that I am not patriotic. Well, let me tell you something, you can take that Nationalistic Fascist attitude along with one of the Skipper 2 laser guided, propelled, 2 thousand pound weapons I helped assemble in the Navy and shove it where the Sun does not shine.
In the end, you will lose, again. And maybe, for the good of the country the Grand Ol' Party (it was never "Government Of the People") will go the way of the Whigs. And the moderate right will find a new home in a new party that is more in line with what more Conservatives believe than the fractionists who are leading the stampede to extinction of the GOP.
I find it amusing that Tea Baggers (they called themselves that first; and I just love when people give me ammo on a silver platter) claim that they are not represented in Government. Does anyone else out there realize that utter foolishness of this claim? Just because your preferred candidate did not win does not mean you are not represented. Republics are not about representing everyone, they are about representing the district that elected them. This means that some will always FEEL disenfranchised, but they are, in fact, represented as desired and required by our Founding Fathers.
I am a patriot, but I'm not ignorant enough to be a Nationalist. I outgrew that when I was 14.
Denver Todd| 1.7.10 @ 7:45AM
Dear Mr. Hillyer:
Why don't our legislators know what you know?
Sincerely,
Todd
Melvin| 1.7.10 @ 7:52AM
Why is Washington D.C. shoving this damnable Health Care Bill down Americans throats, it is because we let them. Why is Washington D.C. going to shove Amnesty for illegal aliens down our throats, it is because we let them. And why is Washington D.C. going to pass Cap and Trade down our throats, it is because we let them.
It is beyond the pale of American thinking that we do not have the guts to put up a united front and tell these carpet bagging political bastards, "The Hell you will."
I seethe with the rage of a thousand suns that we are rolling over and resigning ourselves. "Oh, hum there's nothing that we can do, but we gave it the old collage try didn't we."
Oh sure close to a million people marched into Washington D.C. to voice their displeasure, but they should have took it a step further and occupied the Senate and House Chambers and not moved until Harry Reid, Nancy Pelosi, and each states Representatives and Senators heard their grievances. Thats how you get their attention. The very same hippies of Nancy Pelosi and Harry Reid did the same thing during the protests of the 1960s and called it civil disobedience.
So what the hell if they arrest a million protesters, do we actually think for one moment that they would? They pick us off one by one, they separate us, and they divide and conquer thats how that control us. !!! I DON'T WANT TO BE CONTROLLED ANYMORE!!! I'm not some damn lab rat used for social re-engineering by the fascist bastards in Washington D.C.
I am a freedom loving individual, and by the grace of God I will be treated like one. And some botoxed Armani wearing ex-hippie isn't going to tell me any different, and I will not conform. By God! I will not conform.
Son Of Sam | 1.7.10 @ 10:39AM
Melvin, please email me. We definitely need to talk
stand strong until freedom dawns
Son Of Sam
http://www.samadamssos.bravehost.com/
samadams1765@gmail.com
George F| 1.7.10 @ 2:44PM
Way to go. I've stepped out of the box to find ways to stop our state's two Dem senators even to calling our new governor and asking him to make a recall of our senators his first order of business when he's sworn in on the 16th of this month.
We've got to stop the healthcare bill from passing. We owe it to our friends and our children and grandchildren!
c. j. acworth| 1.7.10 @ 8:45PM
Here's a thought on a direct protest tactic that might get some attention in DC. Suppose we all go to our respective HR directors where we work and increase the number of dependants claimed, to decrease the amount withheld from our paychecks. Put the money in escrow. Think they'd notice a sudden drop in the revenue they have to play with?
Ercille Christmas | 1.7.10 @ 10:14PM
Melvin, I want you at my side, to infuse me with courage, in any battle....and I will take Mr. Hillyer at the other side! I wish that I could shake hands with both of you!
I am doing my little bit, with my keyboard. I am in the middle of writing an article about the "rebooting" of America, and healthcare "reform" is in there.
Al Reams| 1.7.10 @ 7:58AM
I am emailing this article to every Republican senator. How about we all do it?
darcy| 1.7.10 @ 2:13PM
My very thought, Al Reams; the link? or the text in the body of an email??
Best work ever, Mr. Hillyer. You speak for me, in words more precise than I could muster; and your analogy is perfect: Thermopylae, indeed.
It's not as if the Repubs haven't known the peoples' depth of anger and frustration, cumulative but now at critical mass. And in so knowing could have cast off (because we've had their backs despite the Greek chorus of the media -- telling us what to believe) the shackles of complacency and the tug of inevitability, and put on the whole armor of warriors to stop this insanity -- but for the lack of principled-belief in the rightness of our cause and a timidity born of too many years in the swamp of moral relativism, which osmotically permeates the a timid soul once inside the Beltway.
We need brave men and women. Pray that God will send them, to cause them to show themselves before it is too late to redeem this nation short of bloodshed.
usa4freedom| 1.7.10 @ 8:09AM
Amen!
We need men like this.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VP2p91dvm6M
Allen West.
These are the people that we as Americans would march to the gates of hell with.
It’s sad when the best "man" in the GOP is a woman..
Roger R| 1.7.10 @ 8:10AM
Excellent Quin. Senator McConnell represents decent Republican's of years past very well, capable, reasonable, and unfortunately quite ineffective. Think Bob Dole, Bob Micheals or any number of other "speed bump" Republicans. It is WAY past time to pull out the stops, and throw everything we have at them including the kitchen sink. The only good thing I can say about my personal election choices is for house and senate I have only lousey liberal Democrats that won't get my vote. I don't have to make the hard choice some conservatives will have to make this fall when they decide if they really should cast their vote for a "Republican" when that person has only laid down as a speed-bump instead of as a real road block to the awful, awful legislation. Letting everyone go home in time for Christmas was an obscene act of caving in to Harry Reid et al. We are so screwed.
Moviegoer| 1.7.10 @ 8:17AM
YES! YES!!!!!! Mr. Hillyer gets it absolutely right. This isn't just the polite games on Capitol Hill as usual, this is high stakes, take control forever politics. Only the Dems seem to know what's at stake and how to play hard ball. We're hoarse from shouting no and exhausted from writing letters to try and stop this. Aren't there even a few moderate Democrats who will hear or even a couple of Republicans who will stand up for us?
Robert| 1.7.10 @ 8:27AM
Do you think Judgment always comes upon a nation like it did to Korah (Numbers 16) or even the CSA? No, being given over to "our reprobate minds" usually is a gradual process. For Amerika this is what Judgment looks like.
darcy| 1.7.10 @ 2:25PM
I agree, Robert. But the judgment/destruction is always a sign of God's grace -- Jesus on the Cross, the flood in Noah's time. Destruction prepares the way for mercy as people come to recognize the effects of sin and look to God for redemption.
Still, God would have us fight tyranny; to do otherwise is acquiescence, participation in it and a share in the guilt of it.
Ret. Marine| 1.7.10 @ 8:50AM
Well the way I look at it "they have declared war" upon We the People, our Constitution and our livelyhoods. I say let's give it back to them in spades. Will it be enought to send them packing off to their richly spoils they have stolen throughout their years there only to have them smiling like a cheshire cat after having ate the family bird? Will it be enough to work, work work trying to release this burden on We the People after this legislation becomes many many many more gubmint jobs for the liberal and conservative mee too mindset? Will there be the courage for anyone to stand up and tell the American people they have been played like a fiddle witht their own money? How many will go quitely into lines of the death panel bureaucratic know nothing of our lives, who's worth what?
Like in the times of the Spartan's, some of them knew and reconized the threat they were facing and they knew what had to be done, there were also some who would argue against a united front only being concerned of their individual political concerns and their own financial welfare. The time is almost upon We the People, we will be faced with one of two options, burn that town down to the ground or take them to the wood shed for a good ol'e time arse woop'n that the history books will be proud of, like in the second revolution. We are at a crossroad, the Democrat's want a democracy, We the People believe in our Representative Republic, and who out numbers who? and tell me again why the gun and ammo sales are through the roof in the past 15 months. MAN UP or shut up. And YES INDEED it is time for another......when that long line of events...........
Son Of Sam | 1.7.10 @ 10:41AM
Ret Marine, please email me. We definitely need to talk
stand strong until freedom dawns
Son Of Sam
http://www.samadamssos.bravehost.com/
samadams1765@gmail.com
Bill| 1.7.10 @ 9:17AM
Melvin and Ret. Marine,
I agree totally with both of you. I have never been one to just sit around and let things happen to me. It is time to take the fight for our freedom to the front. Time that we the people flood Washington DC and the WH. Time to occupy the halls of congress and the courts and to surround the places where these turn coats live. Time to start recalls where possible... not all states allow recall... Time to file law suits for the attack on the constitution..time for the millions of us to just say No .. No we are not buying what you are selling and put the entire country on strike. We can shut the economy down and starve them of our tax dollars. If they do not have followers there is no one to be lead.
After we take the country back we need to have amendments that put in place term limits and that all serving in government be on the same plans that the rest of the citizens of the country are on... ie.. social security and health care... and it should be retroactive back to the last 20 years.
I like millions in this country am disgusted at what goes on congress. And why is Barney, Charlie, and Chris still walking free when they should be in jail ?
Melvin| 1.7.10 @ 9:19AM
Amen Brother
Son Of Sam | 1.7.10 @ 10:42AM
Bill, please email me. We definitely need to talk
stand strong until freedom dawns
Son Of Sam
http://www.samadamssos.bravehost.com/
samadams1765@gmail.com
Mike| 1.7.10 @ 9:23AM
Um... if I remember my history correctly, Atlanta was lost when Jeff Davis, tired of Johnston's defensive tactics, fired him and put in his place John Bell Hood, who then wrecked the only army standing between Sherman and the Confederate heartland in a series of futile and bloody attacks that only hastened the end. Careful with the historical analogies Mr. Hillyer.
Quin| 1.7.10 @ 12:49PM
The Johnston vs. Hood comparison is inapt, because it is not an either-or proposition. Hood fought recklessly from positions that weren't anywhere near as strong as the ones well Northwest of Atlanta from which Johnston retreated. Johnston had tremendous defensive advantages in the weeks before Atlanta that he failed to use effectively even after, to his credit, repeatedly arraying his armies on good terrain. But when it came time to fight, he wouldn't. Or so is the clear impression from a close reading of Shelby Foote.
Ken (Old Texican)| 1.7.10 @ 9:23AM
Every single one of you mail this article to some Republican Senators....right now!
We at TEAM AMERICA are doing so.
DO IT!
Lazy jack | 1.7.10 @ 9:36AM
I really am not sure that even the conservatives take this fight seriously enough. After all, during the recent Bush years, they were happy to behave exactly like the Democrats in expanding government. One has to suppose most of them have not read the Constitution, Bill of Rights, or Federalist Papers recently, or they would be standing athwart this legislation without pause.
Unfortunately, we have no Leonidas, or even Demophilus, to lead them. All we seem to have is Sir John French. Pity.
Lazy Jack,
For more see:
http://thanksforthelaughs.word.....onscience/
Ken (old Texican)| 1.7.10 @ 9:47AM
Here is the fax I am sending in very large print!
Senator Cornyn 1-7-10
You guys up there don’t have a clue.
My donations, and those of all my teammates are going directly to good conservative candidates with cajones…Direct!
Tell Mr. Steele the same thing.
We want to see some press conferences on the Capitol steps!!!!!
We expect you to run every dirty trick known to man to defeat this death-care bill.
The link below from The American Spectator tells you where to start.
Kenneth Bean
T.E.A.M. AMERICA www.myteamusa.org
http://spectator.org/archives/.....ealth-care
Tom Osterman| 1.7.10 @ 9:54AM
The Republican leadership, as a whole, doesn't want to fight and it doesn't want fighters. It prefers a John McCain to a Sarah Palin like it preferred George H. W. Bush to Ronald Reagan. And don't get me started on the fiasco with Dede Scozzafava.
Not only that, it's contemptuous of its conservative base, has no understanding of conservative principles and less interest in them. Remember how, during the early years of George W. Bush's adninistration, some made the argument that Republicans "had to show that they could govern," i.e. to forget about shrinking the size and power of the government? This bunch doesn't get it and doesn't want to get it.
Right now, all We the People have is the Tea Party movement and the likes of Gov. Palin. And I think that things are only going to get uglier.
Ned| 1.7.10 @ 10:10AM
"And they see a horrid future of Chuck Schumers -- William Sherman-like -- laying waste to what they hold dear."
Great column Quin, but please don't ever use Chuck Schumers in any type of comparison with General William Tecumseh Sherman.
I know the theme of the column required it, but still my stomach turned when I read it.
Even though it would be out of the context of your column an exception might have been in order, and a more applicable comparison might have been made, perhaps, “We could see a horrid future of Chuck Schumer – like an infestation of head lice – laying waste to what they hold dear.”
Quin| 1.7.10 @ 12:53PM
Why not? Sherman was a vicious lout. Forget, for now, the argument about whether he really needed to be quite so brutal in Georgia and South Carolina as he was. This is no paean for the Old South. Just look at the genocide he deliberately practiced against Indians when he later became Secretary of War, writing out orders to exterminate even their women and children because otherwise, supposedly like vermin, they would just reinfest the land. Methinks, to use a rhyme, that the real vermin was Sherman.
Ned| 1.7.10 @ 1:46PM
Quin, to classify General Sherman as vicious lout is an insult to a great man. If he was guilty of excessive brutality in Georgia and South Carolina in bringing the war to the folks who supported it, (I am amazed he kept it in the limits he did) then I suppose every wartime commander would also be guilty of the same charge.
To use your words, just look at the genocide practiced against the German and Japanese people in WWII when we destroyed many cities in order to stop their ability to wage war.
General Sherman and those like him understood that in order to win certain types of war the thrower of the spear needed to feel the pain along with the spear. His attitude was and is more honest and realistic than those who support limited wars. I believe it also produces less death in that the wars are ended more quickly.
The rhyme you produced at the end of your post surprises me and I can’t help but wonder if it is you who wrote the post or some imposter using your name.
Ned| 1.7.10 @ 2:00PM
I forgot about General Grant ordering General Sheridan to lay such through waste to the Shenandoah Valley that a crow would need to carry a provender with it when flying over or it would starve to death.
Are Generals Grant and Sheridan vermin also?
Stuart Koehl| 1.7.10 @ 5:00PM
Victor Davis Hanson may have words for you, Quin.
Stuart Koehl| 1.7.10 @ 10:23AM
Quin Hillyer might be a decent political commentator, but he's no historian or strategist to be certain. Both of his analogies--Thermopylae on the one hand and the Atlanta campaign on the other--are fatally flawed.
Let's begin with Thermopylae: Xerxes invasion was not stopped there; Leonidas fought an heroic delaying action, nothing more. The Spartans and Thespians (nobody remembers the 700 Thespians) had no chance of stopping the Persians at the Hot Gates, and they knew it. They were gaining time for the rest of Greece to rally behind them. In the process, they became a symbol of Greek heroism, defiance and moral superiority. But let's not forget that the Spartans were betrayed by a fellow Greek.
In fact, the Persians were not expelled from Greece until the maritime victory of the Athenians at Salamis, and the smashing ground victory of the Spartan-led coalition at Plataea, a year after Thermopylae. Sorry, Quin--Thermopylae was just a battle, not the war, and the Greeks lost it.
On to Atlanta: Given the numerical and materiel superiority of Sherman's army, there really was no way that Johnston could defeat Sherman in a stand-up battle. He could bloody his nose, as at Kennesaw Mountain, but Sherman had more than enough men to flank Johnston out of every defensible position between Nashville and Atlanta--which, in fact, he did. The force-to-space ratio was so low that Johnston simply could not block every possible route to Atlanta.
Johnston's strategy was therefore eminently sensible in the political context of the Civil War in 1864: with an election coming up, the most important thing for the Confederates was to deny the Lincoln Administration any tangible victories. With Johnston holding Sherman to a mile a day, and Grant bogged down in front of Petersburg, after more than 60,000 casualties in his 40-day overland campaign, war weariness in the Union was tangible. If neither Atlanta nor Petersburg fell before the election, there was a very good chance that George McClellan would become the next President, making a negotiated solution to the War much more likely.
This, however, was not to the taste of Jefferson Davis, who replaced Johnston with the pugnacious John Bell Hood, who did exactly what Quin wants the Republicans to do--come out of the trenches with all guns blazing, do or die. In three battles, he wrecked his army and gave Sherman the victory that Johnston had denied him. He also pretty much ensured that the Union would win the war.
The situation with health care today resembles the Civil War in 1864: the people are getting tired, and there is an election coming up. If the Republicans can avoid losing long enough, then they will win. As the Democrats become desperate to put matters away quickly, they will resort to costly and ham-fisted frontal attacks, which will further alienate the electorate. Once past a certain point, the Democrats themselves will become demoralized (the raft of recent desertions indicates this is beginning right now), and, like the Union soldiers at Cold Harbor, will go to ground and refuse to advance into what they see as a death trap.
On the other hand, if the Republicans choose to fight like John Bell Hood, they may win undying glory, but they won't win the war.
Melvin| 1.7.10 @ 10:40AM
Stuart, you have an acute knowledge of history. How would you digest the fact that Americans voted in the Republicans became fed up with them, voted in the Democrats and within a year are at the point of civil disobedience of not only with the Democrats but the Republicans as well is there a point of world history of where a populace of a Representativity government became
disillusioned with that government and what came after.
I guess what I am trying to ask is. We are fed up with the political ruling class, have no choice of political reforms, never felt like this in our nation's history, so what or what could happen now from a historical perspective?
Stuart Koehl| 1.7.10 @ 3:37PM
We strategists like to speak about "the culminating point of victory"; that is, the point beyond which the victor loses strength for every mile he advances, while the loser gains strength with every mile he retreats. A campaign can be decisive only when the strategic depth to be conquered is less than the culminating point. Germany conquered Poland and France in one gulp; Russia was a different matter entirely.
Something similar pertains in American politics, not least because the Founders in their wisdom created a government of divided powers and established a constitution that deliberately makes radical change difficult to achieve. To do so, one has to build a broad-based coalition and make numerous compromises, which in and of themselves mitigate against radical change.
The Democrats perhaps forgot this fact, but they behaved as though they lived in a parliamentary system, where "fifty percent plus one means we can do what we want". On the basis of the 2008 election, they laid out a broad strategic plan for the transformation of American society, without taking into consideration the limitations of their own mandate, the specific conditions of their electoral victory, and the requirements of governing under the Constitution.
In short, through an act of hubris they engaged in strategic overreach of the sort they find so often in American foreign policy, and as a result, they have gone beyond the culminating point of victory.
Now, every legislative victory they attain sows the seed of their future electoral defeat. They are using up their reserves of political favors and popular good will at a phenomenal rate, and will soon find themselves at the gates of a metaphorical Moscow just as winter closes in, while the Republicans, with the electoral equivalent of the reserves from Siberia, are poised to launch a counter-attack. Doesn't mean that we will win in the end--the Germans got back much of what they lost in '41, and then some, before finally being beaten for good. But it does mean that the liberal attempt at Blitzkrieg has probably failed, and that we are now in for a long battle of attrition.
Louis Jenkins| 1.7.10 @ 11:20AM
Dear Stuart Koehl:
An excellent recap of that portion of two wars. The Spartans had the do or die culture, cowardice was a crime, they lived up to their creed, and now live in glory. Yes, the Thespians were there too and do not receive recognition that is deserved. Johnston followed Von Claus' doctrine of pulling the enemy away from its supply base. At anytime Sherman only had three days of supplies. Sherman's remark, "This army can't move without onions." If Johnston had allowed Forrest to raid the single railway track back to Chattanooga, one of Forrest's best abilities, things may have been different. I have also read that Johnston lacked the live stock to rapidly move his army's cannon and supply wagons thus limiting his manueverability. John Bell Hood's famous quote when asked what happened to his men (Antietam I think) he replied, "Dead on field!" Hood was an avid gambler and would stake all on a hand, and don't forget the post Gettysburg, Chickamuaga injuries and pain killers.
However, I believe this is a time for an all out effort to derail the Democrat's juggernaut. R.E. Lee risked it all on the third day against Cemetry Ridge, and sometimes you got to do just that. Fighting a delaying action just doesn't cut the mustard when the Nation's very fabric stands in the balance. We cannot rely solely on the Republicans or making deals with wishy washy Democrats who sell their states. Melvin implies it will take more than Grand-dad's Old Party. All of us have to get busy. How much longer will we tolerate lukewarm compromises, legislative manuevers, and lawmakers who just don't get it?
Stuart Koehl| 1.7.10 @ 3:41PM
Forgive me, but at Gettysburg, Longstreet was right and Lee was wrong (I've walked the ground, many times). The South would win as long as it did not lose, and the North would lose as long as it could not win. Therefore, Lee's principal job was to keep his army intact and a standing threat to the Union, not to fritter it away in low probability frontal attacks (suppose Pickett had broken through? What then? Meade retreats to Pipe Creek and we start over). As long as Lee was in Pennsylvania, the pressure on Meade to attack him would continue to grow. And there is plenty of good defensive terrain in Pennsylvania.
Always pick your fights, keeping your strategic objectives foremost in mind.
Louis Jenkins| 1.7.10 @ 4:55PM
Yes Longstreet was right with his assessment. He was crushed no doubt to be placed in charge of the 3rd day Confederate assault. I have been fortunate to walk the ground several times during my life, the last two summers with a professional guide, and it was very informative. If Pickett (ah excuse me here but don't forget the left wing of the attack directed by Pettigrew, and a couple of his division's right wings became mixed with Pickett's at the corner in the rockwall) had broken through there would not have been much gained. If you stand on Seminary Ridge, Confederate Ave., looking toward Cemetery Ridge, the undulations, and the distance is deceptive. I often wonder if Lee bothered with the geographical information he received when deciding on the assault, he'd previously tried both Unions flanks , and they had almost carried the ridge at the end of the 2nd day. The Confederate 'boys' realized the impossible task though when they stepped out of the woodline. Yes, Pipe Creek would have been Lee's next problem. Meade was well prepared and predicted where Lee would attack on the 3rd day, but that's all history and we know the if, ands, and buts. Plainly Lee, possibly ill with digestive or heart problems, had his dander up and would not listen to Longstreet's advice. I noticed you said "we start over". As time goes by the validity of the Southern argument becomes more relevant.
As a side note, next time you're that way, trace the route of Hood's Texans from the Texas Monument to the foot of Little Round Top. They're clearing it off, and to have fought through that area would be an arse kicker.
Stuart Koehl| 1.7.10 @ 5:06PM
In the past couple of years, the restoration effort at Gettysburg has really kicked into high gear. I was there just a couple of months ago, and was startled at how different the terrain looks now that the new woods have been cleared, proper fencing reinstalled, and the right crops planted. You can stand near Zieglers Grove looking south, with a copy of the cyclorama painting in your hand, and it's point for point congruent.
Unfortunately, they cannot fully restore the ground over which Law's Brigade attacked because they graded it to put in the paved access roads--though up at the High Water Mark, some roads have actually been removed.
Conan the Grammarian| 1.7.10 @ 11:41AM
No wonder they lost at Thermopylai, the Spartans were fighting alongside actors from Thebes. Heck, if city's fathers had sent regular old Theban soldiers, maybe, just maybe they would have had a chance. I am not a soldier, but I play one on the stage.
Louis Jenkins| 1.7.10 @ 11:54AM
Conan:
Yep. You're right. "Send in the Thespians!" I bet they'd wack the dog dookey right out of those bad old Persians. Merle Norman compact cases can pinch something awful. Sorry for the incorrect oversite, but ain't it fun?
Stuart Koehl| 1.7.10 @ 3:46PM
Pity the poor Thespians (who came from a minor polis called Thespiae). Those seven hundred men represented the majority of its adult male population. While the Thebans medized and others temporized, they took a stand and were wiped out. Before the last stand, the Spartans and the Thespians exchanged shields (the Spartan shields all embossed with the red Lambda for Lakadaemon)--at that point, they were ALL equals, and while Deinokles of Sparta was deemed bravest of all the Greeks, a Thespian was accounted second only to him.
Stuart Koehl| 1.7.10 @ 4:31PM
I should also mention that, in return for their heroic defense of Hellenism at the Hot Gates, the Thespians were obliterated as a polis by the Athenians during the Pelopennesian War, all the adult males being killed, all the women and children sold into slavery.
Quin| 1.7.10 @ 1:01PM
I DO know my history. The delaying action at Thermopylae was clearly a major contributor to the Greek's later ability to rally and eventually win the war. It saved the Greek Army so it would still be alive at Plataea a year later -- and also provided inspiration to all the Greek city-states, so they would be willing to keep fighting. That's EXACTLY what I want the Senate to do: to delay, delay, delay, to the death (metaphorically speaking), in order to buy time.... because the longer this goes, the closer to the election the final vote becomes, and the harder and harder it becomes to hold all the Dems in line.
As for Hood, see my post above. Nowhere do I say we should fight like Hood. But while this is utterly unprovable, I submit that if Johnston had fought like Stonewall Jackson or like Longstreet, when he was in the mountains Northwest of Atlanta, he could have turned the tide.
Not that I am making an argument pro or con the Confederacy or the Union. I am merely describing military tactics, and I just can't imagine that anybody can say that Johnston, the loser of every major campaign he fought, was an effective general in the macro sense.
Stuart Koehl| 1.7.10 @ 4:26PM
Sometimes delay is best achieved by maneuver and not by combat. The Greeks were masters of that art, as well as dissembling, subversion, bribery and coercion. All of them are useful tools in the political trade.
Poor Johnston gets a bad rap in my book. He held Sherman to a mile a day throughout the campaign, with minimal losses along the way. A siege of Atlanta on par with Petersburg was
Lincoln's worst nightmare.
Now, it's one thing to say that Johnston should have acted like Stonewall Jackson or Longstreet (though Longstreet didn't do so well on his own tether at Knoxville), and it's another thing to say he could have. For one thing, his army wasn't Stonewall's (nor Longstreet's I Corps ANV)--it was a fractured and demoralized army courtesy of Braxton Bragg; what he could ask of it was relatively limited. Second, Uncle Billy Sherman was no Irwin McDowell or Joe Hooker; I don't think that he would be stampeded by Old Stonewall showing up on his flank. Finally, the odds were just too long. Look at Chickamauga: with a modest numerical advantage, Bragg (well, mainly Longstreet) broke the Union Army but suffered higher casualties (18,000 vs. 13,000). By 1864, Sherman outnumbered Johnston by 2:1. How many Chickamaugas could the Confederacy afford by that point? Pyrrhus was a great general, but he looked at the Romans and understood that quantity has a quality all its own.
Ned| 1.7.10 @ 11:00AM
Stuart, Thanks for writing want I wanted to, but didn't feel like jogging my memory that hard this morning.
Perhaps a more determined show of delaying tactics by the Republicans is all Quin is suggesting not an all out “do or die” strategy as General Hood employed. This would motivate the party and unify it in its objectives in preparation for the more decisive battle next fall.
Pingback| 1.7.10 @ 11:16AM
Quin Hillyer and Thermopylae - Erick’s blog - RedState links to this page. Here’s an excerpt:
Pingback| 1.7.10 @ 11:16AM
Quin Hillyer and Thermopylae - Erick’s blog - RedState links to this page. Here’s an excerpt:
Pingback| 1.7.10 @ 11:16AM
Quin Hillyer and Thermopylae - Erick’s blog - RedState links to this page. Here’s an excerpt:
Dave Williams| 1.7.10 @ 11:25AM
As I understand the term, "Thespians" are actors...would the military force under discussion be "Thebans?"
Stuart Koehl| 1.7.10 @ 5:17PM
Thespians are actors. But they were also Greeks from the city-state (polis) of Thespiae, not too far from Thermopylae. Unlike many of their neighbors, they neither "went Mede" or sat on the fence. There were 300 Spartans at Thermopylae; there were 700 Thespians (there were also 1000 Thebans, but Leonidas kept them mainly as hostages, and they surrendered as soon as was expedient). The Thespians and the Spartans died side-by-side, having exchanged shields before the final stand.
Jim Hlavac | 1.7.10 @ 11:29AM
The Republicans are kaput, and the Democrats are socialists a-dying quickly on the vine -- and so a complete reordering of our political landscape is necessary. That's what's to push -- destruction of both parties! Slash and burn them to the ground. There is all this talk of "resurrecting" the dead Republicans, who are merely fabian socialists to the more hearty version offered up by the Dems, who we are supposed to "change" a little to get them back to the "center." Ha! No, to hell with them all. For 30 years I have argued against both -- and I was constantly told -- oh, but there's a difference -- sure, twiddledee and twiddledum -- and on came the onslaught of more and more government unceasingly. Now, today, finally, more and more are coming to my line of thinking -- praise the lord and pass the ammunition! Yeah.
Let the two immolate themselves; give them the gasoline to go up in flames and down in infamy.
Then the Tea Party -- or the Liberty Party -- or any other group of politicians that might come from regular people rise up and begin to Dismantle it - -not tweak, no reorder, not refine -- Dismantle. It's going to get uglier, for sure. The reason is simple: the math won't work. They can push all this Dem/Repub legislation down our throats, and there can be much teeth gnashing that it can't be repealed. Well, alas, when the money is worthless, the unemployed at 20% or more, with the corruption so visible, with the elite so happy in their palaces -- well, Louis XVI tried these strategies -- and wound up headless.
We are so worried about our "two party system" -- ha! There's nothing about parties, or two of them, in our founding documents or from the lips of the founders. We are so besotted by R & D that we have Rolled over and Died. No, push the Dems and Repubs together -- so that they can argue for which brand of socialism is better. The Stalinesque among them will Trotskyize the others. And the nation will be safer for it.
The Republicans can't win the House? Thus spoke Steele -- so what is the point of this man. They won't even help their own Republicans in NY and Mass, and elsewhere. For what purpose are they, but to be some count at Versailles hoping to keep his castles and palaces? Bah!
That we now have much to learn from Millions of Iranians in the streets is bad enough, but to listen once more how we have to run a post up a Republican Butt to do what needs doing is a waste of time. So sad, but so necessary to rid the nation of both plagues.
Al Adab| 1.7.10 @ 11:29AM
Thank you Mr. Hillyer for discerning the message of both the public at large and the Conservative Movement. This is the moment; this is the hill, the beach, on which we choose to make our stand. Win or lose it is here where we must be found.
Should, God forbid, some semblance of this bill become law, history must record that principled men stood for Liberty against the onrushing tide of statist tyranny.
Already eleven states have made it plain they will not participate and others even have ballot measures prepared for the fall elections to that effect. Perhaps this is a reprise of nullification, but even if so it is well taken. States and their voters, the citizens, must stand for the Constitution.
Yes, Ken, all of us should send this article on to those Representatives whose votes will determine the nature of this country far beyond the few years remaining to us. Our Grandchildren will look back and either curse our names for delivering them to tyranny or praise us for making the fight for Freedom. Even if it is lost today future generations will still see, shining brightly against the night, the beacon lamp of Liberty. Here is indeed the hill on which to die.
Here we stand, we can do no other.
Siegfried X| 1.7.10 @ 11:33AM
If Republicans were serious about stopping Obama Care, they'd put their money on the table by running attack ads against vulnerable senators. That's what Obama and the Democratic National Committee did against THEIR OWN politicians.
But Republicans aren't doing that. Instead they are throwing in the towel and using this to GENERATE cash. Every dollar which sent to to Republican committees and organizations will be spent to reelect politicians, not stop Obama Care. The same kind of bait & switch we've seen for 15 years now, since Gingrich was knocked out of power.
All the stuff on the floor of the Senate like making them read the bills is empty, meaningless symbolism. That is typical of the Republican establishment that they take our cash, then give us nothing for it, just empty gestures.
Ken (Old Texican)| 1.7.10 @ 11:37AM
Wow,
I sure learn a lot of good stuff here! Thanks guys.
One thing: I sure would appreciate seeing our Republican Senators and Reps out on the capitol steps...and on Fox every night...and every other program...just naturally raising hell on our behalf.
There are times for a disciplined retreat...and a tough manuever it is from what I have read.
Ole Tsun somethingorother said it though: "When on "Death Ground"...Attack Attack Attack."
I don't believe we are on "Death Ground" just yet, but broad civil disobedience and national sit downs are close it seems.
Thoughts?
Wade | 1.7.10 @ 11:39AM
I just want to review this really quickly: so Republicans = Confederates? Okay, that's a battle Democrats would love to fight...
Ken (Old Texican)| 1.7.10 @ 1:00PM
Wade,
Don't be absolutely stupid. It will get you killed.
We are NOT Republicans.....or Confederates. We are Americans fighting for the constitution...of The United States of America.
We ALWAYS win.
Louis Jenkins| 1.7.10 @ 5:00PM
Yes, Old Texican, the Civil War decided that we are all Americans. We have, at least some of us, more in common than we have different. We could take a lesson there. Lee set a good example. He went home and helped rebuild his native state. We've got a lot of rebuilding to do too.
Pingback| 1.7.10 @ 11:48AM
The Hayride » Quin Hillyer’s Call To Arms links to this page. Here’s an excerpt:
Stephen Zierak| 1.7.10 @ 11:58AM
The bunch of losers in the Republican caucus, even when supported by the public, have no idea of how to win with a majority or block with a minority. I'm afraid that if the Dhimmicrats are to be opposed effectively, it is time for the stupid party to accept its Whigdom and leave the field so a reform party can take its place. McConnell and Boehner, clowns. Steele, an unpleasing puzzlement. I say all this with regret, but after many decades of watching the stupid party continually shoot itself in both feet, a new party is the only possible solution to reversing Leviathan. Even in the days of Reagan, it was difficult for Reagan to get support for spending cutbacks. I, myself, stopped contributing to the party when a bunch of so-called Republicans refused to support Reagan's veto of a pork-laden highway bill. And the stupid party has gone ever farther downhill since those days. Perhaps Sarah Palin can be a transformational figure that founds a reform party for 2012 that allows for a combination with the better part of the stupid party, while pressing forward under a new banner. I'm afraid it's time.
Dixie Pixie| 1.7.10 @ 12:01PM
Gentlemen it is all very simple.
50% of all Federal spending is covered by borrowed money. So the Federal government has to come up with a new revenue stream. Asset stripping the Health Care industry will keep the wolves from the door for a few years.
The Republican Party's strategy is to make a great show of opposition to Obama-Care but let it pass anyway. Then the Republicans can reap the electoral rewards and force the Democrats to pay for the Federal governments spending plans.
The Republican Party strategy is as cynical as it is feckless. The Republican leadership regains governmental control while the Democrats solves the financial crises.
Obviously the Republican will not repeal Obama-Care if they regain power. If they do then the nation goes back to the current dismal financial situation. Then the Republicans must solve the problem by cutting Federal spending by more than 50% or double all taxes. Both are electoral killers.
Siegfried X| 1.7.10 @ 12:02PM
Renaming the problem won't help, which is what a third party do, just rename the problem. Nothing would change if we woke up tomorrow morning to find the Republican Party had magically been renamed the "Conservative Party".
The only reason why conservatives don't control the Republican Party is because they don't want to. They don't try hard enough, in fact most of them don't try at all.
The left-wing Republicans, the RINOs, on the other hand wake up every morning thinking "What can we do to keep control of the Republican Party?" One of the RINOs favorite tactics is to keep the conservatives distracted with shiny objects, the Democrats, so the conservatives never notice that the Democrat-lovers are running the Republican Party. That's why "conservative" talk radio and newspapers spend all their time talking about Democrats and their ideas (saying how bad they are). While the RINOs are taking control of the levers of power in the Republican Party, conservatives are getting so worked up about the Democrats that by the time the election rolls around they are will to vote for ANY Republican, even a RINO that would vote with the Democrats any time they needed him (McCain).
The Tea Party movement is simply what conservatives should be doing every day of every year: fighting for control of the Republican Party. If only one team shows up on the field, they win by default. Up until the election, for the past 15 years, the liberal Republicans always won control of the party because they were willing to fight for it.
A real conservative show or magazine would spend half its time talking about conservative ideas, problems in the Republican Party, and our platform, the conservative things which we would do if we took power again. Instead it is Democrat, Democrat, Democrat 100% of the time, until just before the election when we are told to "hold our noses" and "vote for the lesser of two evils", the liberal Republican who "won" a rigged primary, a primary where there usually wasn't even a conservative candidate, or where cross-over Democratic votes were allowed to steal the victory (McCain).
Jim| 1.7.10 @ 12:11PM
Does anyone really think that these prissy Republican like Hatch and McConnel will fight? They are what we used to call in the school yard: sissies. Hilyer, you are absolutely right. The Democrats love these pretty boy Republicans. They have the run of the whole school yard because they know most of the Republicans won't risk getting their suits dirty in a fight. I've often said that anybody who never got in a shool yard fight should not be trusted to defend your rights. I doubt that many of these Republicans (MCain excepted) have ever felt the sting of a bloody nose. And therefore they fear a real fight. Sure hate to be in foxhole with guys like McConnel or Hatch.
Janice| 1.7.10 @ 2:07PM
I wouldn't mind being in a foxhole with McConnel or Hatch. They'd be useful to throw on any grenades that bounce in . . .
Siegfried X| 1.7.10 @ 12:11PM
I should have added that I _DO_ believe that third parties may be part of the solution, but as temporary tools to reform the Republican Party, not replace it.
If even 1% or 2% of Republicans voted third party conservative when the worst liberal Republicans are running, and they were vocal about it, interest would grow in reforming the Republican Party.
This is the same thing that liberal Republicans do. Colin Powell said on national television that he was raised to vote Democratic against the Republican if he didn't like the Republican. Those liberal Republicans win control of the party because they are willing to use their vote as a tool, as a bargaining chip, instead of just giving it away with nothing in return.
Lead or be led.
DatsunMark| 1.7.10 @ 12:13PM
This is the most well stated article of what the *real* fight is all about. It is not about the 2010 elections...the enemy is at the gate and the fight is now! I just gave $ to Senate candidate Scott Brown who is in a special election for Kennedy's seat. He's only down 9 points and anything can happen.
Sheila| 1.7.10 @ 12:27PM
Thank you, Quin, for your rousing call to arms. Regretfully, the only ones listening are individually powerless and corporately leaderless, and so doomed to go down to defeat. No, we didn't even give it the old college try, but we've lost anyhow. Through collective national suicide and wholesale population replacement, we've passively ceded the republic our forefathers fought and died for. We've gotten what we deserve - I take no joy in this; to the contrary, I am desperately afraid for my children's future, but I see no man on earth in whom to place my trust. All this sound and fury signifies nothing.
Havoc| 1.7.10 @ 12:30PM
Great piece, Quin. Hear, hear!!
Northern Rebel| 1.7.10 @ 12:31PM
This is a subject that continues to flummox me.
YES, EVEN ME!
In case you didn't know it, there are cold calculating politicians in the republican party.
Yet, they haven't figured out that, if they at least made believe they were conservative, two thirds of America would hold them up as patriotic heros!
This lack of foresight astonishes a cynic like myself!
Hard working patriotic Americans are searching for someone to cheer for. We cheer for Rush, and Beck, and Sara, and the fools who populate the republican party, can't hit the broadside of the barn, with their message, or lack thereof.
Nero fiddled as Rome burned, and so goes the republican party.
Meanwhile, the fascist democrats plow over the crops, and continue to destroy the United States of America, while Nero struggles to hit E flat!
The republican party deserves to wander in the desert for 40 years, but the American people don't.
I pray for Sara Palin, George Allen, and Rik Santorum. They are our only hope.
NOT ONE MORE PENNY TO THE REPUBLICAN PARTY, UNTIL THEY PROVE THEY ARE AMERICANS!
Al Adab| 1.7.10 @ 3:03PM
The final lesson of Thermopylae is to be found in its epitaph:
Go tell the Spartans, passerby
That here, obedient to their laws, we lie.
Our Constitution. Yes!
As the man said at Concord Bridge, "If they mean to have a war, let it begin here."
Pingback| 1.7.10 @ 12:37PM
Quin Hillyer and Thermopylae | Social Debate: Barack and American Politics links to this page. Here’s an excerpt:
Bob Miller| 1.7.10 @ 12:37PM
The "Republican" "leaders" in Congress got little done when they were in the majority with a sitting President of their own party. They let the minority Democrats beat them to a pulp. Talk about useless.
Make Pence and Palin the reality czars to lead and reeducate the party.
Deborah D | 1.7.10 @ 1:58PM
Quinn -- one of the best you've ever written. What's wrong with our Republican leaders? Have they been in D.C. too long? TERM LIMITS...
D.C. is a go-along get-along place as far as Repubs are concerned. It's past time for cooperation with Dems. You cooperate, Repubs, you will lose in the primary.
Grow a pair, Republicans. Get mad. Do something FOR the country. Look at where we're headed. We're mad as hell out here. You have an opening -- use it.
Quit being the stupid party.
Al Adab| 1.7.10 @ 2:01PM
EVERYONE,
Take a look at the Steele item in the sidebar today. "Steele tells critics to shut up..."
Now we know.
Deborah D | 1.7.10 @ 2:31PM
Al -- What's wrong with the RepublicanParty? I'm beginning to think they are too dense to see the handwriting on the wall. They need an infusion of normal Americans to shake them when they need it (or to slap them and say "Snap out of it!")
Al| 1.7.10 @ 2:53PM
Hello Deb,
The GOP "leadership?" is still trapped in old thinking which confines them to counting seats won, positions held and frankly perks of office.
The rules have changed although exactly what the new set is remains obscure, this much is clear. It is now about Principle and Constitutional Government over and above the ostensible success of any Party. If the GOP could regain the majority at the price of its Principle...so what. If we fail to stand for something, we stand for nothing. So yes, they are too dense.
Brandon | 1.7.10 @ 2:04PM
There are not enough amen's in the world to convey how perfect this article is. If our dear leaders in Congress thought this way we probably would never have seen a 60 vote Democratic super majority in the first place
Siegfried X| 1.7.10 @ 2:27PM
Looks like there is no hope for the Republican Party, or should I say the Republicratic Party.
"Sen. John McCain of Arizona is the most influential player in the Republican Party, according to a new Harris Poll out Thursday.
Sixty-four percent of the 2,276 adults surveyed nationwide said McCain is influential in steering the direction of the Republican Party...
Even among just the Republicans polled, McCain ran away from the field, getting picked by 68 percent."
mujalan| 1.7.10 @ 2:41PM
The Republican Party, other than a few notable exceptions such as DeMint, has become a party of wimps. That is the main reason we are in the mess we are in today.
dum&dummer;| 1.7.10 @ 2:46PM
hlavac, i'm with you bro. we gotta get rid of 'em all and start over from scratch.
irv | 1.7.10 @ 3:03PM
YES! This is exactly what we've been hoping for! Republicans who fight!
It will never happen.
Pingback| 1.7.10 @ 3:11PM
Twitter Trackbacks for The American Spectator : Thermopylae for Health Care [spectat links to this page. Here’s an excerpt:
LeChat| 1.7.10 @ 3:17PM
Our next step in the process is the total destruction and obliteration of the Democrat party. Then, if the Republicans don't straighten their act out quickly, we begin to remove them. Enough is enough.
martin j smith| 1.7.10 @ 3:29PM
treat those Republicans who do not work for the voter as Democrats. Support those who primary these individuals. Take over the Republican Party over time. Instead of just complaining about the behavior of RINOS,they should be politically challenged. Piss or get off the pot.
And, tell the RNC-No Money until the voters are taken seriously.
Margie| 1.7.10 @ 5:04PM
Yes, perfect. 2010 elections are an emergency! There are conservatives running in these elections. Send $ to them individually. The RNC is suffering, along with Mr. Steele and the pressure is ever so on.
But no time for a Third Party..that spells defeat.
Sarah Palin is working with the Tea Parties to help us all out. I for one am looking forward to see what comes about. It's Tea kettle's definitely brewing..!
explosion proof flood light | 11.25.10 @ 1:19AM
If freedom has a natural home in the modern world, therefore, it is the nation-state.
Doug Helland | 1.7.10 @ 3:37PM
Great article. Quin Hillyer should be a senator.
Stuart Koehl| 1.7.10 @ 5:21PM
At which point, he would discover how difficult governing as opposed to pontificating can be--and at which point, I expect Greg Helland's high regard for Quin Hillyer would begin to evaporate.
The system was devised to ensure nothing gets done. That sword cuts in both directions.
Siegfried X| 1.7.10 @ 5:46PM
But the system doesn't stop parties from TRYING to get things done. Congresses can try to get things done, like Obama's congress and Newt Gingrich's Contract With America congress, or they can do nothing but pass out pork like they were alderman, which is what George Bush and his Republican majority congress did. That was the first totally Republican government since the Depression, yet we didn't get a first 100 days or a push for any conservative legislation. (Unless one counts tax cuts or the constitutional amendments most of the Republican majority voted against.)
Stuart Koehl| 1.7.10 @ 9:57PM
My objection is to those who make better (or more precisely, "perfect") the enemy of the good. You have to work within the system you have with the tools you have, and in the context of our constitutional government, that usually means getting half a loaf, or maybe less.
As I said, the system is rigged to ensure nothing gets done--at least nothing radical. And, as I said, it cuts both ways. The rights of the minority are strong and there are a variety of constitutional methods by which it can disrupt the plans of the majority.
Certainly, Bush and the Republican Congress had an opportunity to implement some changes, but it was never a "conservative" government, for the simple reason only broad-based parties can govern--and they do so either from the center left or the center right. Moreover, the Bush Administration came into power with its legitimacy challenged by the opposition and its allies in the media, and then almost immediately had to contend with the first large scale enemy attack on American soil since Pearl Harbor.
The Bush Administration rightly put fighting the war as its highest priority, recognizing that it had limited political capital to expend in the domestic arena. To maintain its ability to wage war, Bush compromised on domestic issues, which may or may not have been a mistake. But there was literally no way he could fight the war and try to roll back the Great Society (let alone the New Deal) at the same time. The time for that had not yet come--it really did take the combination of financial collapse, enormous government bailouts and an attempt to nationalize an eighth of the U.S. economy in one fell swoop to cause a change in popular opinion (a change has also occurred on the foreign policy front, where the feckless Obamae make Bush and his subordinates look like Metternich on steroids).
It may offend your sensitivities to see politicians hunting after majorities and trying to forge coalitions with those whose ideological positions fall short of our own rectitude, but then, you don't have to govern, only snipe. Majorities and coalitions are the tools by which change is affected. If you can't build them and hold them, then you and your agenda go down to defeat. The Democrats are going to discover this very shortly, because they made the same errors in less than one year that the Republicans made in more than eight.
So, you have to ask yourself a question: what do I hold important, and how do I prioritize it? What am I willing to sacrifice in other areas to get what I want the most? If you want to have your cake and eat it, too, then you most definitely should stay away from politics.
Siegfried X| 1.8.10 @ 5:35AM
Excuses, excuses.
Any Republican politician or congressional aide who doesn't think that they can simultaneously defend the country and enact a conservative domestic agenda should resign and let someone better take their place. The only ethical choice for any politician who can't keep his promises is to resign.
Anyone who surrenders our domestic agenda to the liberals because of fear of some rag-tag terrorists has caved in to those terrorists, and handed them the victory they want.
The problem is not the system; it is a systemic fraud, a bald-faced lie in which Republican politicians take voter's money and votes in exchange for a promise they have no intention of keeping, to be conservative. We read one stirring column after another, one fund raising letter after fund raising letter, saying to send money and support the Republican Party in order to resist the Democrats and be the party of Reagan, yet the politicians asking for that money have no intention of fighting the Democrats or acting anything like Reagan. Stirring promises of Reaganism from those who hate Regan and instead are bent on enacting their own secret agendas: libertarianism, fundamentalist crusades / jihad in the middle east, Olympia Snowe / John McCain big-tent Republicanism.
"Watch what we do, not what we say"
It is easy to see that most Republicans in power detest Reaganism and only use it for fund raising.
Stuart Koehl| 1.8.10 @ 6:36AM
Those of us who lived through the Age of Reagan can recall plenty of compromises and broken promises--but Reagan had his priorities in line, and never backed down on the things he considered most important.
Many of the words used against G.W. Bush were also used against Reagan--on the Right as well as on the Left. Some people are hard to please. They are "integrists"--everything is of one piece, everything is of equal importance (which is one way of saying nothing is important), and so to fall short in one area is to fall short in all. Perfect indeed becomes the enemy of the good. Politics becomes the art of the futile.
Pingback| 1.7.10 @ 5:03PM
DBKP FLASH Headline News » Obama Care: Where is the Republican Mr. Smith? links to this page. Here’s an excerpt:
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Thermopylae for Health Care | NewsReal Blog links to this page. Here’s an excerpt:
Quin| 1.7.10 @ 5:49PM
Stuart,
Obviously, I haven't been in office myself, but I was a staffer for House leadership in 1995 and 1996 and thus do have a sense of how much harder it is to govern than to pontificate. I try to keep that in mind when I pontificate, which is why sometimes my pontifications come under assault right here in this space when I evince an understanding of the pressures that honest moderates sometimes go through, or when I advocate a full-out fight for 90 percent of what we want but not for 100% or not in terms that sound too shrill. But I'll admit that I could be wrong in my analyses, which I why I welcome discussions like this one today, which are informative without being nasty. I welcome your comments on my military analogies even as I continue to believe my analogies are apropos. :)
Stuart Koehl| 1.7.10 @ 10:07PM
My experience was earlier than yours--'75-76 on the staff of Steve Solarz. It was more than enough to put me off the notion of ever entering politics, or having much to do with politicians. Overall, however, given the correlation of forces and the tools available to them, I think the Republican leadership has done a creditable job in blocking Obamacare. You can quibble on the margins, but at this point the bill is becoming a poison pill for Democrats.
If things can stretch out past February, the whole idea is dead--Democrats will be looking to protect their seats, not sticking their necks out for a President who doesn't seem willing to reciprocate on their behalf. Even if, through parliamentary chicanery, the Democrats do kludge together a conference bill, the manner in which they will have done so, the blatant corruption of the process (to say nothing of individual members), and the gross unpopularity of the idea itself will destroy Democrats at the polls. If they lose they lose, if they win they lose.
If there is a large shift in both the House and Senate in 2010, I would look to a major reworking of the most controversial aspects of the bill at the very least. Legal challenges are also likely. Most likely of all, however, is the Democrats will decide they have better things to do than commit seppuku for Nancy Pelosi, Harry Reid and Barack Obama. Attempts to reconcile the House and Senate bills will fail, and it all dies, not with a bang, but a whimper.
John II| 1.7.10 @ 11:51PM
Too bad about your experience of that world. We need more citizen-politicians of your character, Stuart. The tricky thing is that the folks best suited to lead are, like Cincinnatus, personally indisposed to do so.
Stuart Koehl| 1.8.10 @ 3:49PM
My personal observation is Americans say they want one thing, but act as though they want another. They say they are tired of conventional, professional politicians and want "new blood". When new blood duly puts itself forward, we hound it for its lack of "experience". We say we want candidates who are serious and address the issues; given such candidates, we reject them in favor of slick shuck-and-jive artists.
The political system as currently contrived destroys good men and advances the ambitions of bad ones. More than anything I am afraid of the ongoing criminalization of politics, the settling of political disputes through criminal prosecutions. Actions of that sort characterized the late Roman Republics, where it was said that a man needed to make three fortunes if he intended to enter politics: one to bribe his way into office, another to defend himself from the inevitable prosecutions that would follow his term in office, and a third on which to live in comfortable retirement. We are not to far from that today. The Roman system degenerated into a fight among rival warlords (Caesar: "To raise money, one must have troops; to raise troops, one must have money"); we will accomplish the same thing with lawyers subverting the police powers of the state. The end came when one warlord decided he would not allow himself to be taken down by his enemies, and the Republic came crashing down.
Ken (Old Texican)| 1.7.10 @ 6:14PM
Quin
This is the very first article that TEAM America has linked and sent to Republicans.
Lots of...LOTS of faxes.
Again, thank you sir.
Len| 1.7.10 @ 6:50PM
"every legal means"?? I'm confused about that. If the US constitution was in effect then the US congress would not even be authorized to consider health care legislation, which means that this legislation is extra-legal and thus can be met in the same way. If these men and women were truly leaders they would be raising an army to fight tyranny. The truth is that most repugs like tyranny, merely a softer version than the left.
Folks, this battle will not be won in congress, but at the state level. Many states are already considering or have passed legislation in some form protecting their people from this. If you dont understand nullification or interposition learn what these are, and most importantly stop looking to DC for solutions.
kissufim| 1.7.10 @ 6:58PM
This essay says it all. Forget political leadership, we need warriors. Right now. I am writing and calling Republican senators and representatives immediately and demanding that they fight like hell or face certain defeat in November.
Northern rebel | 1.7.10 @ 9:05PM
Quin, ( I would love to believe it's really you, and you would interact with your readers) I can't tell you how good it makes us feel to have you beside us in the battle for our country.
Health care IS THE BATTLE, and one which we must win, to prevent the transformation of our country, into something that is no longer America.
We let McCain -Feingold slide, confident that the Supreme court would reverse it, as unconstitutional. How's that workin' out, fellow conservatives?
You can't win a fight without being confrontational. It's easy for these beltway boys to avoid battle, BECAUSE WE LET THEM!
Get your guns, and torches, and pitchforks, and get to work, or we will end up like France Faggots.
read the Drudge Report for the latest abominations from that surrender monkey, cheese eating pussy country.Is that what you want for us?
I'll be living in the country of Texas by then, so damn you all, for destroying God's America!
Ken (Old Texican)| 1.8.10 @ 12:12PM
Well Northern Rebel,
May I be the first to welcome you to your true home, (Texas).
Yessir, we can literally shut the rest of the country down...by closing five pipeline valves...and two highways to tanker trucks.
Most productive Texans will tell the daeth-care 'crats to "shove it"...and if our messy ole' refineries have to start paying for CO2...then we might just shut them down as well.
...We are also a "right to work" State, and plan on staying that way....Screw cardcheck!
Give me a heads up before you head this way.
Pingback| 1.7.10 @ 9:05PM
The American Spectator : Thermopylae for Health Care | Vwfaq Site-Welcome to www.vwfa links to this page. Here’s an excerpt:
Pingback| 1.7.10 @ 9:07PM
The American Spectator : Thermopylae for Health Care | Health blog links to this page. Here’s an excerpt:
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The American Spectator : Thermopylae for Health Care | Health Blog links to this page. Here’s an excerpt:
Osamas Pajamas| 1.7.10 @ 9:28PM
Belive me when I say this. If a few DOZEN Democrat senators DROPPED DEAD in the next 15 minutes, that would help to destroy their hijacking of healthcare --- and I would DANCE IN THE STREETS upon hearing of their death. The Republican top dogs are rich enough to survive OhBummerCare ---- they don't really seem to have a dog in this fight ---- but you have laughing hyenas oon the Democrat side ---- and the American people on the other side ---- so WHOSE SIDE is the Republican party on? The irony of OhBummerCare is that it is bad not only for Republicans, libertarians, and independents ---- it's also bad for the average Democrat, who, like a trained one-trick pony, can't get past his dislike of "the rich" to see that he, too, is an intended victim of the hijacking of the American healthcare industry.
Pingback| 1.7.10 @ 9:38PM
The American Spectator : Thermopylae for Health Care | Health Blog links to this page. Here’s an excerpt:
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The American Spectator : Thermopylae for Health Care | Linaqi-Healtn|Fitness|Weight l links to this page. Here’s an excerpt:
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The American Spectator : Thermopylae for Health Care | Health Blog links to this page. Here’s an excerpt:
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The American Spectator : Thermopylae for Health Care | My Health and Lifestyle links to this page. Here’s an excerpt:
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The American Spectator : Thermopylae for Health Care links to this page. Here’s an excerpt:
Worry01| 1.7.10 @ 10:15PM
I would agree with the author of the article. If not now, when will the Republican Party get off of its back? Are Republican senators and representatives worried that they will not be able name office buildings and post offices in their districts? Is a photo op with Harry Reid or Nancy Pelosi all that being in office is to you? What has being a good little boy or girl gotten you aside from mockery and disdain from the Democrats? Are they perhaps correct in their assessment of you?
Pingback| 1.7.10 @ 10:31PM
The American Spectator : Thermopylae for Health Care | Health Blog links to this page. Here’s an excerpt:
Supra Skytop | 1.7.10 @ 10:33PM
Nice work guys!
this is just Amazing!
Thanks
Pingback| 1.7.10 @ 10:49PM
The American Spectator : Thermopylae for Health Care | Health Blog links to this page. Here’s an excerpt:
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The American Spectator : Thermopylae for Health Care | Step In Online links to this page. Here’s an excerpt:
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The American Spectator : Thermopylae for Health Care | Health Blog links to this page. Here’s an excerpt:
Kevin T. Keith | 1.7.10 @ 11:10PM
Oh, my God, that was fantastic! Every time I get a bit down at the lack of progress in America, I tune into a right-wing site and just marvel at the outraged insanity. It always lifts my spirits. But this was incredible! This is crazy at the professional level! Oh, God, it feels so good to see you so upset. And normally, of course, I wouldn't stoop to mocking the deranged for entertainment, but you make it impossible not to in your own case - and since the right wing has long since abandoned decency and now openly revels in that fact, I don't even have to feel guilty! Go on, please - just one more "Persians at the gates of civilization" rant! Or do the tax thing again - it's old and tired, but it never fails to amuse! Oh, good days, good days . . . "You know, you are hanging by a very thin thread. And I dig that about you, man!"
northern rebel| 1.7.10 @ 11:25PM
Osama's Pajamas:
My wife hates when I say things like you did in your previous post. She thinks I'll go to hell for wishing ill upon living humans.
But what are thes alledged humans wishing upon us?
I admit, I had myself a shot of Irish Whiskey, upon learning of Kennedy's demise!
I was happy that he was dead! Mary Joe was with me in spirit!
When Harry Reid dies, and Nancy Pelosi ( she already looks dead) assumes room temp, I'll be happy and celebrate, because the world will instantly become a better place!
Is it a sin to wish for the destruction of evil?
these digusting individuals have longed for the days, when they were the rulers of serfs, and I will be delighted when they die!
The sooner, the better!
Hurry!
Northern Rebel| 1.7.10 @ 11:29PM
P.S.:
I had a friend named Andy Koblanski, who came to America in 1957, from Poland, and said it best.
Put every politician up against the wall, and shoot them, and start over.
I used to argue with him. He's smarter than I am.
I realize that now.
Pingback| 1.7.10 @ 11:39PM
The American Spectator : Thermopylae for Health Care | Health Blog links to this page. Here’s an excerpt:
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The American Spectator : Thermopylae for Health Care links to this page. Here’s an excerpt:
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Keith| 1.8.10 @ 1:00AM
A M E N and as a hoosier voter--Rub Pence Run...
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Quick Weight Loss Diet Is It A Good Option? | Weight Loss Diet … | Weight Loss Health links to this page. Here’s an excerpt:
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Top 7 Tips to Keep Your Elder Healthy in 2010 | Caring.com | Tip Gatherer links to this page. Here’s an excerpt:
Jeff Barea | 1.8.10 @ 5:12AM
SPARTANS!!!1!!
What is your profession?
Either McConnell puts on his tool belt or retires and thinks up a drag name.
Ain't no seconds I'll be waiting for him to react. Milli-seconds. Fuck that, he better be awake right now and start fighting...
Or I start finding me a new Senator. One that ain't got some fixation on power and Gold.
Can you hear me now Morton Blackwell?
franadi| 1.8.10 @ 5:40AM
The Robert Woods Johnson Foundation is a research think tank. They have all kinds of references to interesting research around health care and health reform. With a little digging, you may be able to contact some of the researchers.
http://www.goarticles.com/cgi-.....?C=2445423
Pingback| 1.8.10 @ 9:23AM
The American Spectator : Thermopylae for Health Care capital university links to this page. Here’s an excerpt:
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Thermopylae for Health Care | The Fund For Personal Liberty links to this page. Here’s an excerpt:
Jon| 1.8.10 @ 6:40PM
Quinn said: "Once it is law, the only way to change it is to pass a new law -- and to do that would require overcoming a Democratic filibuster far more fierce than any that Republicans have put up."
I don't think this is true. It could be repealed with 51 votes via reconciliation.
Pingback| 1.9.10 @ 4:00AM
Anti-aging – Skin Care for Youthful Skin | Skin Care Beauty Wisdom links to this page. Here’s an excerpt:
Yosemeti Sam| 1.9.10 @ 11:30AM
Kevin T. Keith,
Re: your ecstatic blah-blah-athon comment:
Sadly, you cannot differentiate - turkey - that
conservatives are soul-searching the GOP party
to seek out affinities and reinforce same via
true REPRESENTATION!
In contrast to the liberal-infested Democrat
Party which is - 'progressively' exhibiting
soullessness: salient example: champions of
slicing and dicing unborn human beings, the partial born human beings and the BHO
shielded erstwhile/still policy of dumping botched abortion surviving babies - to closets:
to die.
Hop back on to your tricycle and pedal back
to your opiate den - and dream about extremism.
Margie| 1.9.10 @ 2:24PM
I second that emotion.
Susan | 1.9.10 @ 11:30AM
Not having time to read thru all the comments, this may have been addressed by someone else - I would like to know how the writer of this piece knows what the Republicans have and have not done, vis-a-vis attempting to stop this hideous fiasco of a 'healthcare' bill.
Perhaps he is privy to all the closed-door discussions that have take place, but I seriously doubt it.
When the Republicans are completely locked out of every deliberation, when they attempt to use legitimate procedures to delay the steamrolling by the Democrats but are stopped (by dems using illigitimate tactics), when the mainstream media refuses to cover any Republican announcements, to the point where many people still believe that the lie that 'the Republicans have no health care plan to offer', it is time for we the people to get involved.
In 2010 and 2012, and hopefully in Massachusetts next week, the dems will witness our involvement, and I think they will not be happy about it.
Many Democrats who once considered Obama and the total control of our Government by their dem reps to be the most perfect form of government, are not happy with the lies, deceit, bribes and corruption they can no longer ignore.
When you vote for people who promise to lower the levels of the oceans and clean up the earth, you get what you vote for - an arrogant meglomaniac who will tell any lies to get where he wants to be.
Mike | 1.9.10 @ 11:45AM
donate to Scott Brown-R campaign vs Coakley 19 jan election for Kennedy's seat..go to Gatewaypundit.org for Hannity interview with SB and a site embedded for SB $$ support..get that 41st and LAST TIME Pub vote vs Obamacare..do it
Margie| 1.9.10 @ 2:23PM
For Scott's website go here:
http://www.brownforussenate.com/splash
Captain Rainer| 1.9.10 @ 2:57PM
Amen, Quinn! This sanctioned rape of our economy and freedom must be stopped. Thanks for keeping us informed.
Miguel Saavadera| 1.9.10 @ 6:03PM
'Fix Bayonets'
I am personally going to mail my sword to Sen McConnell and tell him if this damn bill passes, in any form, to take it out and simply fall upon it - because as a republic we are done, cooked, fried, and fricasseed - fine.
This bill is a Trojan horse into our lives, bank accounts, homes, and our futures. There are better ways to help our brothers than changing the entire system our forefathers fought, died, and worked for.
Ken (Old Texican)| 1.10.10 @ 10:09AM
Miguel!
What a wonderful gesture! Darn, I wish I had a sword.
Please pretty please let me work with you to write the citation to go with it!!!
email me at kbjudgeroybean06@gmail.com
Stuart, guys,
This conversation has actually gotten us somewhere. Thank each one of you.
Stuart, question: Would you put your mind to work on some actions/reactions we might take between now and November to derail this trainwreck? (heh I just love to mix metaphors well)
Perhaps the article here might bump your thinking.
http://judgeroy.wordpress.com
I really appreciated your insight that "governing you get a half a loaf...maybe. and building consensus, and the govt. we have is not supposed to work very well."
OK how about we folks in the private, non governing), population moving beyond mere demonstrations?
alin | 1.11.10 @ 1:05AM
I am doing my little bit, with my keyboard. I am in the middnike outletle of writing an article about the "rebooting" of America, and healthcare "adidas outletreform" is in there.
Pingback| 1.11.10 @ 9:39AM
Peoples Press Collective » Thermopylae for Health Care links to this page. Here’s an excerpt:
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What Conservatives Want From The Republican Party « TeeJaw Blog links to this page. Here’s an excerpt:
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In such places, a lack of transport, education and health care all conspire against progress
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is good