A Washington, D.C. audience reacts to Helen Mirren's performance
in Racine's Phèdre as if it were watching a sit-com.
Just as we have now arrived at the cultural moment where we have
to define art as whatever is displayed in an art gallery or
museum, so we also have to define comedy as whatever is
said on a late night comedy show. But my surprise at hearing the
audience of The Late Show with David Letterman laugh and applaud
its way through Mr. Letterman's account of a $2 million blackmail
plot against him -- a plot based on what he hilariously described
as such "creepy things" about him as his simultaneously confessed
proclivity for sleeping with his female employees-was not so great
as it would have been a couple of weeks before. That's when I had
gone to see the British National Theatre's production of Jean
Racine's Phèdre in Washington, lured by the promise of the
glorious Helen Mirren in the title role. The theme of this tragedy
was also, it was said, torn from the tabloid headlines. A woman --
Phèdre -- falls in love with her stepson and, when she is spurned,
accuses him of rape. It ends, as tragedy usually ends, in murder
and suicide. Yet there, too, the audience laughed and laughed and
laughed.
I'm not ashamed -- well, only a little ashamed -- to confess
that I have been a fan of Miss Mirren's since her fantastically
sexy romp in the surf with James Mason in Michael Powell's
otherwise lamentable Age of Consent (1969), when at the
age of 23 or so she could still pass for jailbait, and I thought
she was the making of Stephen Frears's The Queen three
years ago. Nor did she disappoint with her performance in
Phèdre, which was terrific. Moreover, it had the effect of
raising the level of the whole production, directed by Nicholas
Hytner. There were especially fine performances by Dominic Cooper
as the stepson, Hippolytus, Stanley Townsend as her husband and his
father, Theseus, Ruth Negga as Aricia, whom Hippolytus loves, and
the great Margaret Tyzack as Oenone, Phèdre's maidservant, who
encourages her mistress's illicit passion. The 17th-century French
original had been very creditably rendered into English by the late
poet laureate of Britain, Ted Hughes.
Not the least of the production's accomplishments was to make
Racine enthralling. Generally one finds that, in translation
anyway, a little of Racine goes a long way, and in English, even
that of Mr. Hughes, you don't get the poetry. Also, poetry or no,
the play adheres strictly to the French neoclassical maxim that
tragedies should be tragic and comedies comic, and that Shakespeare
must forever suffer from the critical taint of having mixed the two
up so promiscuously. Tragedy has to be as well done as it was on
this occasion not to become overbearing when there is no comic
relief. And yet the audience laughed. Either they thought that
Racine or Hughes, or Miss Mirren or Mr. Hytner, had failed in their
attempts to avoid bathos -- which seems improbable, given the
standing ovation they gave it at the end -- or they thought they
were supposed to laugh. Like the "Late Show" audience, they had
come to laugh and they were determined to do so.
The production took place under the auspices of the Shakespeare
Theatre Company of Washington, and audiences there know they're
supposed to laugh at Shakespeare, as they always do-so lustily,
indeed, that it sometimes seems to me to be rather in excess of the
comedy of the scene in front of them. As I noted in the July/August
issue, the STC audience also laughed their heads off at a
production of Noel Coward's Design for Living that I found
desperately un-funny. Perhaps it is my own sense of humor that is
at fault? But I made a note of a few of what the audience found to
be the laugh lines in Phèdre, so you can make your own
mind up about that:
• "Prudence and restraint are out of date."
• Phèdre's question to Oenone about her attempted suicide: "Why
did you prevent me?"
• Phèdre to Oenone about the latter's caution regarding her wish
to believe in Hippolytus's returning her love: "Serve my madness,
now, not my reason."
• Phèdre's apostrophe to Venus: "See how far I have fallen!"
• Phèdre's devastation at learning of the love of Hippolytus for
Aricia -- expressed, by the way, with words that sounded torn from
her heart -- "I have a rival!" and then again when she said, "My
hands are itching to squeeze the life out of that woman."
• Aricia to the monster-slayer Theseus, hinting of Phèdre's
guilty secret: "Not every monster has been accounted for."
Funny? I don't think so. One is driven to the conclusion that
some significant proportion of the audience, at least, didn't know
what they were watching -- apart from Helen Mirren, a celebrity,
getting herself into rather an emotional state. Since the play was,
like most 17th-century French tragedy, all about honor, and as I
have written a book to explain why our contemporaries in America
and other Western countries have very little idea of what honor is
anymore, I suppose I should not have been surprised. It didn't
help, either, that a program note headed "A Myth of Desire"
solemnly informed us in a subhead that "the ancient myth of
Hippolytus and Phaedra is a myth of desire. It asks us to reflect
not only on the terrible consequences of incestuous passion,
dysfunctional love, and perverted celibacy -- but also on their
conflicting explanations. How do we explain the destructive power
of passion? Who is to blame when love goes wrong?"
Clearly, Racine was out of his depth in this play. Those are
questions that only Oprah or Dr. Phil could answer. The "perverted
celibacy" part, by the way, was presumably because in one version
of the myth, Hippolytus had sworn off women, though Racine shows
him as being in love with Aricia. But the popular culture today,
like the British underclass, accepts what Dr. Anthony Daniels calls
"the hydraulic model of human desire, according to which passion is
like the pus in an abscess, which, if not drained, causes blood
poisoning, delirium, and death." In other words, all
celibacy is a form of perversion because it is unhealthy and an
offense against the hygienic properties of coition. What better
presumptive answer, then, to the question of "who is to blame when
love goes wrong"?
AS IT HAPPENED, on the same day that I went to see
Phèdre, my local paper, the Washington Post, ran
not one but two articles occasioned by the premiere of new show on
ABC television called Cougar Town which, as the review by
Hank Stuever opined, "may be the most deliciously profane network
show ever made." I think he meant "obscene" rather than "profane,"
since his example of its alleged profanity was a scene "in which a
teenager discovers his mom performing oral sex by the pool." It
would have been profane (that is, offensive or opposed to religion
or the gods) as well as obscene in Phèdre's day, which was one
reason she was in such a state but, well, as Miss Mirren's audience
and Mr. Stuever remind us, times change.
The accompanying article, by Monica Hesse and Ellen McCarthy,
had no fault to find with either profanity or obscenity and
heartily approved of older women's couplings, sanctified or
otherwise, with younger men, but it did express a primly feminist
disapproval of the word "cougar."
It's not just that using a predatory animal to describe older
women makes it sound like the men involved are vulnerable prey.
Like sharp teeth and claws are scaring them into bed -- rather
than, you know, their own desires....It's not even the double
standard, though that's part of it: There's a corresponding name
for single males who prefer to date younger females. They're called
"men." The biggest problem with the cougar craze is that it takes
an age-old dating dynamic and pretends it's something new.
Sixteenth-century Frenchman Henry II was just 15 when he began a
long-term affair with a 35-year-old woman. It's been more than 40
years ago since Mrs. Robinson dropped her robe in front of young
Benjamin Braddock. And Susan Sarandon, 62, and Tim Robbins, 50,
have been together for two decades now.
It "takes an age-old dating dynamic and pretends it's something
new"? But it is new. Not the -older-woman younger-man bit
but the dating bit. Up until quite recent times there was
no such thing, and for most of the time there has been "dating," it
would have been thought indecent by most people for it to occur in
the cougarish pattern -- which is why Mrs. Robinson in The
Graduate had the impact she had at the time. People were
shocked at the idea of "cougars." Now they're not. Now cougars are
funny, which is why they're making sitcoms about them.
Presumably, it also has something to do with the reason why the
audience laughed at Helen Mirren's Phèdre. The Post
writers are the ones who are pretending, by pleading with people to
treat cougarism as normal and the spectacle of mature women turned
sexual predators as neither shocking nor admirable but just the
natural way of things. Trouble is, historically speaking, it's not
the natural way of things. Even today, when cougars are no longer
cried about, they're still unusual enough to be laughed at. Tragedy
has been converted by history into comedy. Can it be that there are
still those who are unhappy with the exchange?
About the Author
James Bowman, our movie and culture critic, is a resident scholar at the Ethics and Public Policy Center. He is the author of Honor: A History and Media Madness: The Corruption of Our Political Culture, both published by Encounter Books.
Wife: "what are you doing in the cellar?"
Husband: "I, um, I'm reading Penthouse magazine."
Wife: "no you're not; you're reading the Bible again, you
perv."
Husband: "I, uh, you see, um, I..."
Wife: "you put down that Bible and come here right now, okay?
I'll let it go, this time."
Appleby| 11.5.09 @ 7:18AM
You had me until you started trying to convince me (a mature
woman) that 60 year old men flashing 23 year old skinny and
scantily clad arm candy is *normal* and 60 year old women with 33
year old boyfriends are Pitiful Predators.
Yes, I know that a 60 year old man with a girl on his arm
bragging to the world that his Viagra works fine (why else would
every second ad on the teevee be for something to energize the
old mans wee wee?) is not pitiful and disgusting TO YOU, but you
ought to hear what we women say about you to one another.
Oh, and about people laughing at classical plays, I suspect that
is mainly caused by their never having seen any kind of play, and
they laugh because their friends are laughing, hoping somebody in
the audience knows what on earth is going on.
Big Leo| 11.5.09 @ 3:22PM
Do you remember P.J. O'Rourke's remark on the invention of
Viagra? "Great. What the world needs is more middle aged men with
hard-ons.
Roy| 11.5.09 @ 8:13AM
Actually, I think Mr. Bowman was a victim of the website's
indenting screw-up - the idea that men who act that way are
called "men" was I believe a continuation of the quote from the
WP.
Even on its own terms, it's not true. Men like that are only
called "men" when that is prefixed with "dirty old".
the permanent newbie| 11.5.09 @ 6:29PM
Furthermore, the WP moron seems not aware that "cougar" is a
coinage that plays on a (now probably obsolete) expression for an
older man pursuing younger women: a "wolf." Masculine canine,
corresponding feminine feline, that sort of thing. At least when
I was young, back when dinosaurs roamed the earth, it was often
thought unseemly for men to act as predators too...
As a mature woman myself, and as one who has been pursued
recently by a man 20 years younger, I was wondering -- what do
you call that guy? I was and still am shocked. I think all this
"cougar" talk is causing younger guys to look at older women
differently, and I, for one, am uncomfortable with it.
Thunderbottom| 11.5.09 @ 9:37AM
As a middle-aged man, I call it "unmitigated gall". I remember
some "horny teen" movie from around ten years ago introduced the
concept of "MILF" - "Mother I'd Like to F***" - which I regard as
even more creepy than the "cougar" and "dirty old man". What
"society" regards as sophisticated is, in reality, demented.
Richard Baker| 11.5.09 @ 8:18AM
The "sophisticated" class isn't despite their pretentions.
Sheryl| 11.5.09 @ 11:34AM
I've always felt that laughter during productions of classical
plays is often exaggerated to show off and prove to everyone that
"I GetThe Joke Because I Am So Smart." So maybe that even
explains the inappropriate laughter mentioned in this article.
Too bad no-one has invented a way to show off that "I get the
tragedy (or the drama) because I am so smart"--then people could
do that instead of laughing inappropriately at things that are
not funny nor meant to be.
scott| 11.5.09 @ 12:19PM
The whole "cougar" thing is simple flattery that mainly sells
magazines and TV to an aging demographic that spends ALOT of
money on appearance (clothes, plastic surgery, hair, makeup,
shoes, teeth, exercise equipment, books, etc.). There is a huge
financial interest in keeping this segment of wealth and
consumption flattered.
In reality, "cougars" that actually have the stomach to live the
cliched "fantasy" are quite rare. It is simply not in a stable
woman's nature to stalk and sleep around with young men---there's
too much danger of humiliation, embarrassment, insult, etc., not
just from society, but from the young men "they prey upon". Men
have to accept whatever insult, humiliation, embarrassment, etc.,
in taking the initial bold step of approach, and therefore have
the thicker skin for its consequences. Sorry ladies, you are
biologically and behaviorally different. Stop kidding
yourselves--you'll thank me later.
Even attractive young women endlessly flatter themselves they
have the stomach to talk that long walk, approach a guy, ask him
out, etc., but most simply don't, and obviously don't have to.
How in the world they're supposed to learn the uncomfortable
realities of pursuit of the other sex in their 40's, 50's, and
good lord, their 60's-is beyond me. The best they can hope for is
to appear as attractive and available as possible without looking
desperate. In other words--same-old-same-old. But now, you're a
"cougar", just like Demi Moore! I'm sure Demi is entirely at
peace with herself. No dreading the inevitable going on there.
Sorry to be crude with a pun, but ya can't teach an old dog new
tricks.
Yes, yes, I know....I'm a misogynist. The men that encourage all
ye brave "cougars"......somehow....they're not.
Bydand76| 11.5.09 @ 6:30PM
Have you ever been around an Army base or gone clubbing before?
Sorry, but you are out of it Scott.
Women are aggresive as hell and there are tons of "older" women
out there who go looking for it every weekend. I am serious as a
heartattack!
The "cougar" is out there and she is plenty strong. The same goes
for the "sugar-daddy".
Either way its kinda creepy and wierd! I am not saying I approve,
just saying that from where I stand I see this kinda stuff all
the time. Especially around the bases!
I think there's truth in both what Scott says and what you say,
Bydand76. I'm sure there are plenty of "older" women out there.
But, there are also plenty of older women not out there.
My fear is that men will start looking at all older women as
"cougars," which we are not. I hope respect for older women isn't
thrown out the door because of today's Pop culture.
I'm also not discounting the fact that there are plenty of good
relationships between younger men and older women. I don't have a
problem with love. It does go beyond age.
As I've gotten older I've looked forward to being treated as a
person first. That's all.
R. Dittmar| 11.6.09 @ 10:10AM
In all this commenting on "cougars", I think we are missing the
men behind the curtains. While you can always find a handful of
oddballs in New York and L.A., the number of older women pursuing
promiscuous sex with young men is statistically nil. Older
gay men however do promiscuously pursue younger men. And
since gay men are so involved in the creation of pop culture, we
see stories about gay lifestyles “dressed up in drag” so to speak
as stories about heterosexual life. This is what is causing all
the cougars/Sex in the City Samanthas to appear in sitcoms and
movies. They are stories about gay men disguised as stories about
older women.
Appleby| 11.6.09 @ 4:25PM
It's all a matter of taste -- his and hers. For many years I
dated only men that were at least 25 years younger than I am,
because they are more interesting, they have ideas, and they
generally do not have ex-wives and non-custodial children. I
found that if both parties were clear on the relationship, it
worked fine. I actually have some friends who are young racing
drivers who joke about finding a "sponsor" who is a middle aged
woman with an independent income who wants a good time. Seeing
Danica Patrick has "earned" her IRL drive in the same way, and
seems to earn praise for it, why not?
Appleby -- I have no problem with what consenting adults do --
whatsoever.
I am married (for 34 years). The guy who pursued me is married
with with two children. He worked in my home doing remodeling
stuff. I thought we had a great friendship, but I was naive.
I am naive no longer.
Seek| 11.5.09 @ 12:43PM
Cougars are members of the cat family. And young horny men,
remember this -- cats are carnivores.
MAJ Harris| 11.5.09 @ 1:25PM
In the age of Jerry Springer, is it any surprise that "incestuous
passion, dysfunctional love, and perverted celibacy" are simply
fodder for entertainment? A culture that teaches that nothing is
shameful, infamous or subject to judgement cannot prepare an
audience to react to outrageous behavior with anything except
laughter. Anything else would demand moral values, standards of
conduct and a belief in right and wrong.
Laura| 11.5.09 @ 3:01PM
As a woman married to a younger man (and we have two children
together), I find the whole "cougar" thing insulting the way that
the degradation of all male-female relationships is now
insulting: trite, flippant, shallow, insecure, oversexualized,
and uncommitted. EVERY male-female relationship is portrayed on
TV like that - why would May-December romances be any different?
Big Leo| 11.5.09 @ 3:26PM
As the son of a well educated European immigrant, I have
resolutely shied away from the easy "Americans are nitwits and
Europeans are the sophisticates," mantra. It's usually said by
semi-educated and sophomoric Americans. However, I remember
seeing Phedre in Paris over forty years ago, and remember how
deeply sad and moving it was. Just this once let me say, at least
these Americans and those like them are nitwits. Felt good. Oh,
and also anyone who finds "Cougar Town" anything but repulsive.
American nitwits. Sorry-- that just slipped out.
Big Jim| 11.5.09 @ 4:07PM
Scott hit the nail on the head. The whole cougar thing is as
mythical as Phedre. There have always been men who used older
women. The women were either victims or had a willingness to
exchange money for male companionship. These women are old fools
and the men are gigolos. Society has and always will look down on
both.
Bydand76| 11.5.09 @ 6:22PM
Does anyone remember the movie Harold and Maude?
That was a freaking hilarious movie !
Ummm this stuff has been going on for quite awhile guys.
If a younger guy and an older female "hook-up" and it is
consentual then whats the big deal? The same goes for Older men
and younger females.
Hell, Hugh Heifner has made a living off of it for the past year
hasnt he?
Whats all the fuss?
Isnt this what "liberation" was all about?
Ashton Kutcher and Demi Moore seem to be getiing along all right?
Hell there are some guys in the unit here who are dating and
engaged to some older women. If your heart finds the right person
then it really doesnt matter what the age is right?
Oh well. Gotta go clean the M4 now and get ready for tomorrow.
JimE| 11.5.09 @ 7:15PM
I do younger and older women, both have their postive attributes.
Alan Brooks| 11.6.09 @ 12:18AM
Sex isn't sinful anymore.
It's just boring.
Laura| 11.6.09 @ 2:02AM
Alan Brooks| 11.6.09 @ 12:18AM
Sex isn't sinful anymore.
It's just boring.
--
When I was a teen I amused myself thinking it would be funny if
instead of handshakes, hugs and kisses, society accepted the same
messaging out in the open in full public view from the acts of
screwing, humping and blowing - on the sidewalks, in the office
in plain view on the desktop, in department stores where you
first walk in on top of the glass enclosed perfumery displays, in
the courtroom as a fine howdie-do to the judge, jury and counsel.
Many years later and as history turns out it's truthfully not so
sinful anymore, particularly boring and it's since it's become so
damn common there's nothing to laugh, cry or feel emotional about
what-so-ever.
Boring fits it to a tee and it may be why dramatic treatment of
such fails to elicit adequate emotional response as in the prior
time periods when dramas pertaining to it were written.
Derek Leaberry| 11.6.09 @ 12:17PM
Her affair with the much younger John Lynch in "Cal" was pretty
absurd.
Alan Brooks| 11.6.09 @ 9:14PM
"Boring fits it to a tee "
Sex has become too much of a good thing. Say you like a good
candy bar and someone leaves one on your doorstep. Then it's a
treat (though today the National Guard might have the candy
tested for anthrax).
But if someone left ten thousand candy bars in your front yard
then it would be boring-- except as an episode of 'Punked'.
When I was in high school in the 1950s in suburban New Jersey, my
girlfriend and I attended a local community playhouse performance
of "Death of a Salesman." In the final scene, when Willie Loman
has cracked up, his son comes home in the middle of the night to
find out what is happening. His mother is reluctant to tell him
at first but finally confesses, "He's out planting the garden."
I'll never forget how that audience of suburban commuters
reacted. They howled with laughter. They had never heard anything
so funny. My girlfriend and I sat there humiliated that the
people who were raising us could be so stupid.
Yet about two years later, when one of those suburban fathers
suffered a few setbacks - a daughter who got divorced, a son who
had a serious auto accident - he went out to the local Howard
Johnson's motel and put a bullet through his head. I always
thought that it was the inability of such people to understand
tragedy that made them so incapable of dealing with misfortune.
In later years I decided that the ability to understand tragedy
was really the measure of a civilization. It's no accident that
the history's greatest cultures - Athenian Greece, Elizabe
than England, 18th Century France - gave us our greatest
tragedies. They were cultures that produced ordinary people who
could understand the fragility of both success and failure in
life and could offer appreciative audiences.
It's therefore rather frightening to read that audiences in Our
Nation's Capital are laughing at tragic scenes and have no more
appreciation of life's risks and retributions than those
commuting Willie Lomans back in my home town. It shows how far we
have descended as a culture.
Alan Brooks| 11.7.09 @ 12:26AM
I don't see the future as being a sinister brave new world, just
an empty one. Se is becoming so routine that someday it will seem
wholesome and empty, and reading the Bible will appear to be a
forbidden thrill-- as sex used to be.
Wife: "what are you doing in the cellar?"
Husband: "I, um, I'm reading Penthouse magazine."
Wife: "no you're not; you're reading the Bible again, you
perv."
Husband: "I, uh, you see, um, I..."
Wife: "you put down that Bible and come here right now, okay?
I'll let it go, this time."
Catherine| 11.7.09 @ 12:30AM
These are the same kind of people who clap between movements at
the symphony.
Richard Baker| 11.8.09 @ 11:07AM
Catherine:
I'e seen the same reaction and was always mystified. Dressing up
and pretending to be sophisticated is, sadly, a pose for many.
These people probably think that Toscanini was a member of the
Mafia.
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D| 11.5.09 @ 7:15AM
I don't know whether to laugh or cry.
Alan Brooks| 11.6.09 @ 12:19AM
Sex isn't sinful anymore.
It's just boring.
Alan Brooks| 11.7.09 @ 12:32AM
Wife: "what are you doing in the cellar?"
Husband: "I, um, I'm reading Penthouse magazine."
Wife: "no you're not; you're reading the Bible again, you perv."
Husband: "I, uh, you see, um, I..."
Wife: "you put down that Bible and come here right now, okay? I'll let it go, this time."
Appleby| 11.5.09 @ 7:18AM
You had me until you started trying to convince me (a mature woman) that 60 year old men flashing 23 year old skinny and scantily clad arm candy is *normal* and 60 year old women with 33 year old boyfriends are Pitiful Predators.
Yes, I know that a 60 year old man with a girl on his arm bragging to the world that his Viagra works fine (why else would every second ad on the teevee be for something to energize the old mans wee wee?) is not pitiful and disgusting TO YOU, but you ought to hear what we women say about you to one another.
Oh, and about people laughing at classical plays, I suspect that is mainly caused by their never having seen any kind of play, and they laugh because their friends are laughing, hoping somebody in the audience knows what on earth is going on.
Big Leo| 11.5.09 @ 3:22PM
Do you remember P.J. O'Rourke's remark on the invention of Viagra? "Great. What the world needs is more middle aged men with hard-ons.
Roy| 11.5.09 @ 8:13AM
Actually, I think Mr. Bowman was a victim of the website's indenting screw-up - the idea that men who act that way are called "men" was I believe a continuation of the quote from the WP.
Even on its own terms, it's not true. Men like that are only called "men" when that is prefixed with "dirty old".
the permanent newbie| 11.5.09 @ 6:29PM
Furthermore, the WP moron seems not aware that "cougar" is a coinage that plays on a (now probably obsolete) expression for an older man pursuing younger women: a "wolf." Masculine canine, corresponding feminine feline, that sort of thing. At least when I was young, back when dinosaurs roamed the earth, it was often thought unseemly for men to act as predators too...
Deborah D| 11.5.09 @ 8:15AM
As a mature woman myself, and as one who has been pursued recently by a man 20 years younger, I was wondering -- what do you call that guy? I was and still am shocked. I think all this "cougar" talk is causing younger guys to look at older women differently, and I, for one, am uncomfortable with it.
Thunderbottom| 11.5.09 @ 9:37AM
As a middle-aged man, I call it "unmitigated gall". I remember some "horny teen" movie from around ten years ago introduced the concept of "MILF" - "Mother I'd Like to F***" - which I regard as even more creepy than the "cougar" and "dirty old man". What "society" regards as sophisticated is, in reality, demented.
Richard Baker| 11.5.09 @ 8:18AM
The "sophisticated" class isn't despite their pretentions.
Sheryl| 11.5.09 @ 11:34AM
I've always felt that laughter during productions of classical plays is often exaggerated to show off and prove to everyone that "I GetThe Joke Because I Am So Smart." So maybe that even explains the inappropriate laughter mentioned in this article. Too bad no-one has invented a way to show off that "I get the tragedy (or the drama) because I am so smart"--then people could do that instead of laughing inappropriately at things that are not funny nor meant to be.
scott| 11.5.09 @ 12:19PM
The whole "cougar" thing is simple flattery that mainly sells magazines and TV to an aging demographic that spends ALOT of money on appearance (clothes, plastic surgery, hair, makeup, shoes, teeth, exercise equipment, books, etc.). There is a huge financial interest in keeping this segment of wealth and consumption flattered.
In reality, "cougars" that actually have the stomach to live the cliched "fantasy" are quite rare. It is simply not in a stable woman's nature to stalk and sleep around with young men---there's too much danger of humiliation, embarrassment, insult, etc., not just from society, but from the young men "they prey upon". Men have to accept whatever insult, humiliation, embarrassment, etc., in taking the initial bold step of approach, and therefore have the thicker skin for its consequences. Sorry ladies, you are biologically and behaviorally different. Stop kidding yourselves--you'll thank me later.
Even attractive young women endlessly flatter themselves they have the stomach to talk that long walk, approach a guy, ask him out, etc., but most simply don't, and obviously don't have to. How in the world they're supposed to learn the uncomfortable realities of pursuit of the other sex in their 40's, 50's, and good lord, their 60's-is beyond me. The best they can hope for is to appear as attractive and available as possible without looking desperate. In other words--same-old-same-old. But now, you're a "cougar", just like Demi Moore! I'm sure Demi is entirely at peace with herself. No dreading the inevitable going on there.
Sorry to be crude with a pun, but ya can't teach an old dog new tricks.
Yes, yes, I know....I'm a misogynist. The men that encourage all ye brave "cougars"......somehow....they're not.
Bydand76| 11.5.09 @ 6:30PM
Have you ever been around an Army base or gone clubbing before?
Sorry, but you are out of it Scott.
Women are aggresive as hell and there are tons of "older" women out there who go looking for it every weekend. I am serious as a heartattack!
The "cougar" is out there and she is plenty strong. The same goes for the "sugar-daddy".
Either way its kinda creepy and wierd! I am not saying I approve, just saying that from where I stand I see this kinda stuff all the time. Especially around the bases!
Deborah D| 11.6.09 @ 8:02AM
I think there's truth in both what Scott says and what you say, Bydand76. I'm sure there are plenty of "older" women out there. But, there are also plenty of older women not out there.
My fear is that men will start looking at all older women as "cougars," which we are not. I hope respect for older women isn't thrown out the door because of today's Pop culture.
I'm also not discounting the fact that there are plenty of good relationships between younger men and older women. I don't have a problem with love. It does go beyond age.
As I've gotten older I've looked forward to being treated as a person first. That's all.
R. Dittmar| 11.6.09 @ 10:10AM
In all this commenting on "cougars", I think we are missing the men behind the curtains. While you can always find a handful of oddballs in New York and L.A., the number of older women pursuing promiscuous sex with young men is statistically nil. Older gay men however do promiscuously pursue younger men. And since gay men are so involved in the creation of pop culture, we see stories about gay lifestyles “dressed up in drag” so to speak as stories about heterosexual life. This is what is causing all the cougars/Sex in the City Samanthas to appear in sitcoms and movies. They are stories about gay men disguised as stories about older women.
Appleby| 11.6.09 @ 4:25PM
It's all a matter of taste -- his and hers. For many years I dated only men that were at least 25 years younger than I am, because they are more interesting, they have ideas, and they generally do not have ex-wives and non-custodial children. I found that if both parties were clear on the relationship, it worked fine. I actually have some friends who are young racing drivers who joke about finding a "sponsor" who is a middle aged woman with an independent income who wants a good time. Seeing Danica Patrick has "earned" her IRL drive in the same way, and seems to earn praise for it, why not?
Deborah D| 11.6.09 @ 4:53PM
Appleby -- I have no problem with what consenting adults do -- whatsoever.
I am married (for 34 years). The guy who pursued me is married with with two children. He worked in my home doing remodeling stuff. I thought we had a great friendship, but I was naive.
I am naive no longer.
Seek| 11.5.09 @ 12:43PM
Cougars are members of the cat family. And young horny men, remember this -- cats are carnivores.
MAJ Harris| 11.5.09 @ 1:25PM
In the age of Jerry Springer, is it any surprise that "incestuous passion, dysfunctional love, and perverted celibacy" are simply fodder for entertainment? A culture that teaches that nothing is shameful, infamous or subject to judgement cannot prepare an audience to react to outrageous behavior with anything except laughter. Anything else would demand moral values, standards of conduct and a belief in right and wrong.
Laura| 11.5.09 @ 3:01PM
As a woman married to a younger man (and we have two children together), I find the whole "cougar" thing insulting the way that the degradation of all male-female relationships is now insulting: trite, flippant, shallow, insecure, oversexualized, and uncommitted. EVERY male-female relationship is portrayed on TV like that - why would May-December romances be any different?
Big Leo| 11.5.09 @ 3:26PM
As the son of a well educated European immigrant, I have resolutely shied away from the easy "Americans are nitwits and Europeans are the sophisticates," mantra. It's usually said by semi-educated and sophomoric Americans. However, I remember seeing Phedre in Paris over forty years ago, and remember how deeply sad and moving it was. Just this once let me say, at least these Americans and those like them are nitwits. Felt good. Oh, and also anyone who finds "Cougar Town" anything but repulsive. American nitwits. Sorry-- that just slipped out.
Big Jim| 11.5.09 @ 4:07PM
Scott hit the nail on the head. The whole cougar thing is as mythical as Phedre. There have always been men who used older women. The women were either victims or had a willingness to exchange money for male companionship. These women are old fools and the men are gigolos. Society has and always will look down on both.
Bydand76| 11.5.09 @ 6:22PM
Does anyone remember the movie Harold and Maude?
That was a freaking hilarious movie !
"Cougars", "M.I.L.F.'s"
"Jack-Daddies"
"Viagra-Pops"
Ummm this stuff has been going on for quite awhile guys.
If a younger guy and an older female "hook-up" and it is consentual then whats the big deal? The same goes for Older men and younger females.
Hell, Hugh Heifner has made a living off of it for the past year hasnt he?
Whats all the fuss?
Isnt this what "liberation" was all about?
Ashton Kutcher and Demi Moore seem to be getiing along all right?
Hell there are some guys in the unit here who are dating and engaged to some older women. If your heart finds the right person then it really doesnt matter what the age is right?
Oh well. Gotta go clean the M4 now and get ready for tomorrow.
JimE| 11.5.09 @ 7:15PM
I do younger and older women, both have their postive attributes.
Alan Brooks| 11.6.09 @ 12:18AM
Sex isn't sinful anymore.
It's just boring.
Laura| 11.6.09 @ 2:02AM
Alan Brooks| 11.6.09 @ 12:18AM
Sex isn't sinful anymore.
It's just boring.
--
When I was a teen I amused myself thinking it would be funny if instead of handshakes, hugs and kisses, society accepted the same messaging out in the open in full public view from the acts of screwing, humping and blowing - on the sidewalks, in the office in plain view on the desktop, in department stores where you first walk in on top of the glass enclosed perfumery displays, in the courtroom as a fine howdie-do to the judge, jury and counsel.
Many years later and as history turns out it's truthfully not so sinful anymore, particularly boring and it's since it's become so damn common there's nothing to laugh, cry or feel emotional about what-so-ever.
Boring fits it to a tee and it may be why dramatic treatment of such fails to elicit adequate emotional response as in the prior time periods when dramas pertaining to it were written.
Derek Leaberry| 11.6.09 @ 12:17PM
Her affair with the much younger John Lynch in "Cal" was pretty absurd.
Alan Brooks| 11.6.09 @ 9:14PM
"Boring fits it to a tee "
Sex has become too much of a good thing. Say you like a good candy bar and someone leaves one on your doorstep. Then it's a treat (though today the National Guard might have the candy tested for anthrax).
But if someone left ten thousand candy bars in your front yard then it would be boring-- except as an episode of 'Punked'.
William Tucker| 11.6.09 @ 9:58PM
When I was in high school in the 1950s in suburban New Jersey, my girlfriend and I attended a local community playhouse performance of "Death of a Salesman." In the final scene, when Willie Loman has cracked up, his son comes home in the middle of the night to find out what is happening. His mother is reluctant to tell him at first but finally confesses, "He's out planting the garden."
I'll never forget how that audience of suburban commuters reacted. They howled with laughter. They had never heard anything so funny. My girlfriend and I sat there humiliated that the people who were raising us could be so stupid.
Yet about two years later, when one of those suburban fathers suffered a few setbacks - a daughter who got divorced, a son who had a serious auto accident - he went out to the local Howard Johnson's motel and put a bullet through his head. I always thought that it was the inability of such people to understand tragedy that made them so incapable of dealing with misfortune.
In later years I decided that the ability to understand tragedy was really the measure of a civilization. It's no accident that the history's greatest cultures - Athenian Greece, Elizabe
than England, 18th Century France - gave us our greatest tragedies. They were cultures that produced ordinary people who could understand the fragility of both success and failure in life and could offer appreciative audiences.
It's therefore rather frightening to read that audiences in Our Nation's Capital are laughing at tragic scenes and have no more appreciation of life's risks and retributions than those commuting Willie Lomans back in my home town. It shows how far we have descended as a culture.
Alan Brooks| 11.7.09 @ 12:26AM
I don't see the future as being a sinister brave new world, just an empty one. Se is becoming so routine that someday it will seem wholesome and empty, and reading the Bible will appear to be a forbidden thrill-- as sex used to be.
Wife: "what are you doing in the cellar?"
Husband: "I, um, I'm reading Penthouse magazine."
Wife: "no you're not; you're reading the Bible again, you perv."
Husband: "I, uh, you see, um, I..."
Wife: "you put down that Bible and come here right now, okay? I'll let it go, this time."
Catherine| 11.7.09 @ 12:30AM
These are the same kind of people who clap between movements at the symphony.
Richard Baker| 11.8.09 @ 11:07AM
Catherine:
I'e seen the same reaction and was always mystified. Dressing up and pretending to be sophisticated is, sadly, a pose for many. These people probably think that Toscanini was a member of the Mafia.
Richard Baker| 11.8.09 @ 11:07AM
I've seen, not I'e. Typo.
Alan Brooks| 11.9.09 @ 1:57AM
Maybe they confuse Toscanini with Joe Pesci?
Cynthia Yockey| 11.9.09 @ 3:06AM
I saw this production and I don't remember any inappropriate laughter at all.
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