Campaign Crawlers
‘Worth the Fight’
Who lost and who won in Hoffman’s Revolution?
SARANAC LAKE, N.Y. — If a Hollywood producer were casting for the role of a revolutionary hero, no talent agent would send Doug Hoffman to the audition. Yet the Hoffman congressional campaign has ignited a revolution within the Republican Party, the results of which are already being felt.
Even while the Hoffman campaign’s early-evening “cautious optimism” gave way to concern — with staffers huddling in the “war room” here at the Hotel Saranac — one official of New York’s Conservative Party was already in a celebratory mood, laughing as he yelled into his cell phone: “Guess who will not be representing the 23rd District? Dede Scozzafava!”
The liberal Republican Scozzafava suspended her campaign four days before Election Day, but still got about 7,000 votes — a number greater than the margin of victory for the Democrat she endorsed, Bill Owens. Her defeat was victory enough for some conservatives, on a night when the GOP swept the off-off-year gubernatorial elections in Virginia and New Jersey. And the candidate who drove Scozzafava out of the race struck a defiant tone in conceding his narrow loss to Owens.
“This one was worth the fight.…. And this is only one fight in the battle,” said Hoffman, an accountant who began his campaign as an utter unknown but finished as the hero of what John Gizzi of Human Events called a nationwide “crusade” by conservatives.
Like Hoffman, conservatives are in a fighting mood and in the 23rd District campaign, they demonstrated a willingness to fight — and win — against a GOP establishment that showed its political tone-deafness by picking Scozzafava for the nomination and then spending a reported $900,000 on her doomed campaign.
“There were two fights here,” Hoffman press aide Sandy Caligiore said after the candidate’s wee-hours concession speech. “We won one and we lost one.”
Republicans who supported Scozzafava, including Newt Gingrich, had warned that the Hoffman campaign risked electing a Democrat in a district that had sent Republicans to Congress since before the Civil War. They will likely rush to claim vindication, but the fight that conservatives waged for Hoffman has not ended with this one battle.
Erick Erickson, whose Red State blog helped lead the online brigade of Hoffman’s grassroots army, declared the 23rd District result a “huge win for conservatives.”
The Hoffman campaign “demonstrated to the GOP that it must not take conservatives for granted.… The GOP had better pay attention,” Erickson said, indicating the next key target in the conservative fight against the Republican establishment.
“For all intents and purposes, NY-23 is a trial run for Florida.… If John Cornyn and the NRSC do not want to see Florida go the way of NY-23, they better stand down,” Erickson said.
That message was aimed at the Texas senator who, as chairman of the National Republican Senatorial Committee, endorsed Florida Gov. Charlie Crist in next year’s Senate race more than a year ahead of the August 2010 primary. Conservatives have rallied to the insurgent campaign of Marco Rubio, the former speaker of the state House.
Unlike the unusual New York special election — where GOP insiders picked Scozzafava without voter input — the Florida Senate race will give conservatives a chance to fight the establishment head-on in a Republican primary. The NRSC’s premature choice of Crist is already looking like a bad bet, and the conservative defiance of GOP leadership that drove the Hoffman campaign may once more prove its potency in Florida.
In conceding defeat, Hoffman said his campaign had proved that ordinary citizens could “fight back” against the establishment. “You don’t have to be polished. You don’t have to be poised. You don’t have to be a rock star,” he said. “Stand up and fight back.”
Hoffman was willing to fight, and whatever the future may hold for him, his willingness to stand up against the Republican establishment has already made him a hero.
About the Author
Robert Stacy McCain is co-author (with Lynn Vincent) of Donkey Cons: Sex, Crime, and Corruption in the Democratic Party (Nelson Current). He blogs at The Other McCain.
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alyeska| 11.4.09 @ 6:44AM
are you insane?
Kitty| 11.4.09 @ 6:49AM
Stacy McCain posted this message on his blog:
"By the way, some campaign sources tell me that Mr. Hoffman was very emotionally bruised by Tuesday night's result. In recent days, he had come to believe -- like a lot of us believed -- that he was about to win an upset victory. If you'd like to send Mr. Hoffman a note of encouragement, please go to the contact" page at his Web site."
Here's Hoffman's Web site: http://www.doughoffmanforcongress.com/contact.html
...
Ken (Old Texican)| 11.4.09 @ 8:11AM
Kitty
Thank you for the link.
I wrote to Doug:
We Texans originated the old "line in the sand", at the Alamo. We lost that battle to win Texas.
Thank you
Brad| 11.4.09 @ 9:39AM
Doug Hoffman deserves our respect and honor, especially embodied in your words. Well done, Ken.
Mr. Hoffman, bravo! We salute you.
Adam Smith| 11.4.09 @ 12:32PM
Thanks for the link Kitty.
Of all the races, Mr. Smith's going to Washington was the most interesting to me. I too felt bruised when the citizen went down to defeat at the last minute. Particulary since the GOP engineered this defeat not only for Hoffman, but for the rest of American citizens everywhere.
The Republican leadership still needs to go. The canidates who beat Democrats last night won in spite of the leadership, not because of it.
The party message has been a disaster since Newt took over up to now. We don't need these clowns to start acting conservative, we need to change to conservative leadership who believes in the principles of limited government and personal liberty. This group goes looking for it in the likes of Scuzzyfava and will continue to give the American people poor choices like her.
24AheadDotCom | 11.4.09 @ 1:13PM
I wrote to him a few days ago, pointing out that he was on the wrong side of an important issue. Oddly enough, I never heard back, and none of the reporters who were covering the election or the tea partiers in the area asked him about that issue in an attempt to drag him away from the ClubForGrowthAtAnyCost school.
Hint: it's difficult to take on the corrupt Beltway establishment when you're being a useful idiot for them.
24AheadDotCom | 11.4.09 @ 1:16PM
Here's the email I sent using the form:
Aw, too bad about your loss. Maybe next time you "patriots" won't support massive immigration at the same time as millions of Americans are out of work.
brownimom| 11.4.09 @ 1:57PM
You are so right. Tea Partiers and 9/12 Project members are not going to get fired up by a person who seeks to destroy this country from the inside and the outside via illegal immigration or amnesty. Absurd, and will likely be the untold story of NY-23.
eric r| 11.4.09 @ 7:46AM
Mr. Hoffman is General Prescott at Bunker Hill.
With victories like this the British - er, the socialists - can look forward to the American public holding Dems fully accountable for their failures.
If we build on the message (a big "if", given the fecklessness at GOP headquarters) the public will open their eyes to the common-sense workability of conservative solutions to the dreadful problems caused by bullying socialist government.
kerry| 11.4.09 @ 8:17AM
Interesting that there is no mention of Sarah Palin in this article, as the fact that she endorsed him was seen as a major boost to his campaign.
But if 7000 people voted for Scozza and Owens had a 3000 vote majority, that means 10000 voted against Hoffman in a traditionally republican held seat. How is this a win for conservatives? It seems to me we got shut down decisively.
Don't get me wrong, I sent money to Hoffman. And I adore Sarah. But, it seems that it will be an uphill battle to regain seats, and for me this was a big (huge) disappointment. Somebody help me here!!!!
Lisa| 11.4.09 @ 10:14AM
It's a win because earnest people's contributions will no longer go to elect at least one Stealth Republican....sending a message to them all.
imnsho
toddes| 11.4.09 @ 12:19PM
It was a win because Hoffman was a third-party candidate without a political machine behind him who came within the margin of error of defeating the political player of the Democratic Party and caused the withdrawal of the DIABLO representing the supposedly "conservative" Republican Party.
brownimom| 11.4.09 @ 2:00PM
kerry : I was posting on Twitter last night that I felt the Palin endorsement hurt Hoffman more than it helped in the same way that the Obama endorsement hurt Corzine. Independents appear to be distinctly unimpressed by endorsements. It was said on-line today that McDonnell did not want Palin's endorsement. I think that was a good move and I recommend other conservative Republicans do the same thing. Her involvement is like throwing oil on a fire.
SoCon| 11.5.09 @ 12:16AM
With gutless republicans like you, we are doomed.
Throw the damn oil on the fire, it couldn't get any worse than having a Marxist in the White House.
Go Sarah! I will work my fingers to the bone to get you elected.
serfer62| 11.5.09 @ 10:02PM
I believe the votes Dede got were from the "straight ticket votes" as her name was still in the R column...
Richard Baker| 11.4.09 @ 8:22AM
A month ago, Hoffman was a joke and 3rd in a 3-way race. That he barely lost and drove the anointed RNC candidate out was quite a deal for a first time candidate. His candidacy ignites the Conservatives in the country. Liberals, do ridicule and underestimate us, oh please.
WestWright| 11.4.09 @ 8:23AM
Bravo Mr. Hoffman and RS McCain for your courage in standing tall for the rest of Amricans. Your courageous battle in NY23 was an inspiration. I hope to join you when the 2010 election ramps up!
bill king| 11.4.09 @ 8:38AM
we will not split the ticket in 2010 and a constitutional conservative, be it Hoffman or another will be representing Ny 23. a few more months of this country going in the wrong direction will wake up enough people.
Peter| 11.4.09 @ 8:54AM
Conservative candidates contested two northeast elections yesterday and lost both. In the most ignominious, yet least consequential defeat, they managed to boot away a congressional seat held by Republicans for over a century.
Sarah Palin proved herself both a formidable weapon and a loose cannon. Her rowdy followers remind us once again why we don't let children play with guns.
Newt Gingrich has been shown to be right when he said that he supported the Party candidate because he believed the the people who live and breathe local politics know more about what kind of candidate had the best chance of winning the district than did a mob of outside agitators.
Scozzafava's 7,000 votes - i.e. the margin of victory - can be best seen as a rallying 'round a neighbor who's been attacked by a gang of outsiders.
But for all that, Republicans won the two most consequential contests - VA and NJ. If our systems of checks and balances still has any meaning, the fight back will originate in the statehouses of American, not in the halls of Congress.
Conservatives can be a powerful forces within the Republican Party. Outside they're just another bunch of losers. As for NY-23: there's another election next year.
Carol| 11.4.09 @ 9:22AM
Electing a "republican" who would caucus with the Democrats is not an option for real Republicans. The RINO GOP 23rd "leaders" are responsible for this debacle and the real losers, not Hoffman, Palin or Conservatives....or haven't you been paying attention?
JBobs| 11.4.09 @ 9:26AM
You've got it wrong, Pete. The lib Republicans are the "losers" without us conservatives. We are the backbone of the party. Without us you are just a another Democrat. The conservative adds the distinction that makes a difference.
Charles Jackson | 11.4.09 @ 9:41AM
Had I been a resident of NY's 23rd Congressional District, I would have voted for Doug Hoffman in a heartbeat.
However, now after the breathtaking and over the top Hoffman love- in and trashing of Dede Scozzafava, it seems to me that Red County, Red State, WSJ, National Review, Weekly Standard, Thompson, Palin, Pawlenty, Beck, Limbaugh, et al have some "xplainin" to do.
I think Scozzafava got her revenge in a district with a voter registration edge of 45,000 for Republicans and which had been reliably Republican in congressional races for more than a century - although it was THEIR brand of Republican, not necessarily Red County's or mine.
“Support the Revolution”? Nope, not this way.
In a word, I think all you Rush babies blew it.
Sam| 11.4.09 @ 10:01AM
Well, I disagree with Mr. Jackson to this extent. This district while Republican has voted for Schumer, Clinton, and Obama in elections for federal positions; Eliot Spitzer no doubt won here and Andrew Cuomo would too. Government (Federal, State, County and Local) employs the greatest percentage of voters. McHugh was a long time incumbent and, on the whole, competent. The fact that Republicans dominate voter registration rolls is, I believe, due to voters not wishing to be so totally shut out of local contests. And those are rarely based on anything other than competence and group identification.
So, under the circumstances, Doug Hoffman did rather well.
John II| 11.4.09 @ 10:52AM
The business about domination of registration rolls is important. I live in a district, far from New York state, in which local politicos routinely identify themselves as "Democrats" for the same reason: group identification in an overwhelmingly Democratic district. Many of them are conservatives and behave accordingly on school boards, city councils, and the like. (I guess you'd call them DINOs, what the hell.)
The Hoffman race was very, very close, despite Scuzzy's ill-mannered treachery. And her behavior proves that Newt called it wrong. It wouldn't surprise me if Owen turns out to be more conservative than Scuzzy could possibly have been, if not nearly as conservative as I'd prefer. Politicians are still politicians: they're pretty good at reading the tea leaves, even if most of them are particularly principled..
Big picture: things are looking up.
John II| 11.4.09 @ 10:54AM
Correction: AREN'T particularly principled. Boy, does THAT typo look dumb!
The Big E| 11.4.09 @ 11:49AM
So, exactly how would Scozzafava have been different than Owens had she been elected? Would she have voted against ObamaCare? Cap and Tax? More spending? Would she have opposed the Administration on anything? Why in the hell should someone vote for a person who espouses views diametrically opposed to their own simply because of the name of the Political Party they choose to affiliate with? Had the race been only between Owens and Scozzafava, it would have been a Democratic pickup REGARDLESS OF WHO WON!
mujalan| 11.4.09 @ 2:17PM
It's the same logic that would say that our military should accept an enemy soldier as one of our own if he just happens to be wearing our uniform.
It doesn't seem to matter if he is really going to pull the trigger for the other side so long as he has our uniform on.
One article that I saw said that Scozzafava was possibly more liberal than Owens. So we should have backed her just because she wore an "R"???
toddes| 11.4.09 @ 12:24PM
If no discernable difference can be seen between the candidates of the two major political parties, how can choosing either one be considered a "victory" for conservatives? How much pride or joy can be found in voting against your principles?
Chuck| 11.4.09 @ 12:51PM
This is the same old line the blue noses gave when Reagan ran for Pres back in 1980. They said he was a loose canon and they ridiculed him the same way the mainstream media is ridiculing Palin today.
Maybe conservatives will lose without the repubs. but the repubs can't win without conservatives.
If republican candidates vote the same way as democrats, conservatives like me see no reason to vote for them . Candidates like Crist and Scozzafazo don't share the same values I do and I am no better off with them in power than I am with a liberal democrat.
What's the difference if a republican raises taxes, grows government, supports abortion, or a democrat? None from my point of view. I vote my conscience when it comes to public policy. I don't care about Rs and Ds. This is not some kind of football game. You have to do what's right, not what is expedient.
At least with the democrat I know where they really stand.
Anthony| 11.4.09 @ 3:59PM
Well Peter, if Ms. Scozzafava had her way, we conservatives wouldn't have any guns to play around with. But I guess that point is lost on RINOs like you.
Your post is a nice try, you're either a Move-on pajama blogger or one of Newt's Washington hacks. Your last paragraph is ass backwards; you should have said the Republican Party could be a powerful force if it sticks with its conservative values and principles, without conservatives, they're just another bunch of losers.
Either way, we sure as hell don't need any advice from the likes of you. Now go and remove your McCain 2008 sticker from your car.
Peter| 11.4.09 @ 4:13PM
Sorry Tony, hate to bust your bubble but I'm none of those things swirling around in the fever swamps of your imagination.
I don't have a label, I'm just me - a guy who doesn't need a membership card, a T-Shirt or a Bumper-sticker as a means of identity. I don't listen to AM radio or watch TV to learn what opinions I'm supposed to hold. I know what I believe and, more important, why I believe it.
But yeah, I'm a fan of Newt Gingrich because Newt Gingrich accomplished something beyond shooting his mouth off in the comments section of a blog.
Victoria| 11.5.09 @ 12:21AM
We ran a RINO in 2008, Peter--how'd that work out for you? Stop shooting your mouth off in a comments section and think, moron.
Peter| 11.5.09 @ 10:54AM
What do you mean "We?"
As usual, a faulty assumption by a dim bulb has led to a false conclusion. Best resort to name-calling. It's simple to understand and will fit on a T-shirt.
tnxplant| 11.4.09 @ 8:57AM
It comes down to what matters more - doing the right thing even if it means losing an election or winning an election regardless of the means required to do so.
Northern Rebel| 11.4.09 @ 8:59AM
Mr. Hoffman is a nice man, and a patriot, but if we had a candidate with a pulse, never mind charisma, we would have wasted the libs.
As it is, this is if anything, a wake up call for the corrupt republican party in NY.
If they want to continue golfing with, and kissing the democrat party's ass, the conservatives will unite against both parties!
Now that the corrupt republican toad, Joe Bruno has retired under fire, who's performing oral on Shelly "Sphincter" Silver?
Mr.Reality| 11.4.09 @ 9:01AM
I bet vast majority of votes for Scozzafava were republican women. For these women the likes of Limbaugh become a huge turnoff. Calling her Scuzzafava, as rude, nasty, ignorant Rush did was not good for the Hoffman cause. You can bet your bottom dollars the Guv elects in NJ, and VA were far more gentlemanly than this low life bigmouth so many here adore. You can be polite and respectful, and tough as nails at the same time.
the-gunslinger| 11.4.09 @ 9:30AM
As a "Republican Woman" I can testify you are mistaken. "Suzzafava" was a Liberal Democrat in Republican drag. We have sense enough not to vote for any such critter. Real Republican Women are not "offended" by humor.
You obviously know too may thin-skinned Liberal Democrat women!
Richard Evans| 11.4.09 @ 9:23AM
I'm with Kerry. This doesn't look like a much of a win to me. No question the big loser is the RNC, but big crowds with Palin and Fred Thompson couldn't get it done, and that has to be a loss in that Republican leaning district. Like McCain says, Florida will properly be decided by a primary. NY-23 was just a mess.
Nick| 11.4.09 @ 11:12AM
WRONG!
Sarah Palin and Fred Thompson did get it done, Einstein.
They, and a lot of others, killed Dede the RINO's campaign.
Mr. Hoffman ran on a third party ticket. The fact it was so close is a testament to the power of Tea Partiers and conservatives like Mrs. Palin.
Gina| 11.5.09 @ 12:23AM
Right on, Nick!
Eric Cartman | 11.4.09 @ 9:27AM
Food for thought:
I have an old friend I was stationed at Griffiss AFB with. He still lives up there outside of Plattsburgh. Called him last week and asked about the race. he said he wasn't sure if he was going to vote (didn't like Dede) , but he didn't like that Hoffman that much either - wasn't talking about local issues and mostly about the national message and vote.
Granted, he's an old grumpy bastard, but isn't that who is supposed to be voting for us conservatives? Angry White Males?
So maybe the Grumpy Old Bastard vote didn't like Hoffman's campaign. Could be!
bob| 11.4.09 @ 9:33AM
So the GOP lost a seat that it had held since before the Civil War. That's quite an accomplishment. I'm sure Mr. McCain also thinks that the South fought the good fight against the North and that it was hardly a long-term setback, just an opening salvo.
The Big E| 11.4.09 @ 11:53AM
The GOP lost this seat when they selected Scozzafava as their candidate. Had she won, the GOP STILL would have lost the sear, as she would likely have been a reliabble vote with the Dems - since as she ultimately proved - that's what she really was anyway.
Gina| 11.5.09 @ 12:25AM
Agreed. Maybe the morons in the RNC have learned a lesson.
Ken (Old Texican)| 11.4.09 @ 9:34AM
Guys, the student in the clasroom was the "Republican elite". Believe me, the lesson was learned in an extremely chilling way.
Stop and think a minute. One seat less in Congress for the time being. The conservative base Nationally saying hell no to wimp liberals among Republicans.
In my mind, the lesson learned was: "These stubborn upstarts...we better get along with them and listen to them to win anything."
bob| 11.4.09 @ 9:48AM
Ken - I thought for a minute. My thought is that those bad old liberal Republicans also thought for a minute and then voted for Owens. They thought it better not to get along with you, not to listen to you, and to LOSE.
Margie| 11.4.09 @ 2:36PM
Old Tex is absolutely correct! This is a great lesson for Newt & the Boys. The base of the Republican Party are conservative. We are rapidly winning and will continue to win with more and more of the independent voters, and even Dems who are sick of Socialism and are joining us. We The People (In NY) will be nominating and voting for conservative Republican Doug Hoffman come 2010.
Johnno| 11.5.09 @ 12:26AM
You're learning, Margie; hold leadership accountable! NO MORE RINOS!!
Margie| 11.5.09 @ 1:54PM
Excuse me, but I didn't know you were my Teach.
I'm probably at least 30 years your senior. Stick around. I'm sure I could teach you a thing or 2.
Alan Brooks| 11.4.09 @ 9:49AM
Obama won by a landslide.
the GOP now has to prove itself-- as it will-- by being instrumental, as it always has been, in economic activity. The economy will grow modestly but quite steadily (avg, say 2.5 percent in the next five years), facilitating Obama's re-election ('96 redux) and the re-election of Dems in blue states.
HOWEVER, red states will have no shortage of Republicans elected and re-elected, as you almost certainly know. You are the pros, after all. If I were a pro I'd be writing pieces here, not merely blogging.
Alan Brooks| 11.4.09 @ 2:24PM
the ultimate cause?:
without the Cold War to unify America, after almost 20 years we're still lost in a malaise;
a malaise of Carteristic dimensions.
Mr. Reality| 11.4.09 @ 10:13AM
Gun-slinger, what if I call you you bun-slinger, or gun-sucker ? Will you love me even more for my sexist remarks ?
Paleeeeese| 11.4.09 @ 11:08AM
Get a clue. She doesn't care what "names" you call. You are irrelevant. She's a strong, wise woman. It's obvious she intimidates you. Mr. Unrealistic is more like it. Go back to the little liberal boys and girls; you're out of your league.
Big J| 11.4.09 @ 11:13AM
Mr. Reality -
A truly "Blow Me Ben" type of troll.
Brilliant!
Nick| 11.4.09 @ 11:18AM
Mr. Sur-Reality,
What are you, a girly-man?
Garrett| 11.4.09 @ 10:26AM
But it's not enough to be anti-establishment and 'rogue'. There has to be a good command of the issues beyond just the surface talking points. Hoffman (and Palin) never got to that point, but Bob McDonnell in Virginia did; that's why he won his election. McDonnell is the Conservative model that should be followed.
Wilderman| 11.4.09 @ 9:45PM
"it's not enough to be anti-establishment and 'rogue'. "
Spot on. Hoffman was not a competent candidate, so no amount of donations, sign-waving, or poll-shouting by outsiders could make enough district residents vote for him. Ditto for Palin. Just not good enough to get enough votes.
Victoria| 11.5.09 @ 12:33AM
As I recall, moron--McCain was at the top of the ticket in 2008, not Palin. Nice try, loser.
Let Palin run her own campaign without McCain's insiders stabbing her in the back--then we'll really see what kind of a candidate she is.
J. Kelley| 11.4.09 @ 10:28AM
Enough of the RINO Republicans already. The Liberal Republican would have voted with the Democrats anyway. So we did not lose anything. There is a movement out here in Flyover Country. No more RINO's
Freddy| 11.4.09 @ 10:39AM
Obama won in a landslide? I didn't know 52% of the vote constituted a mandate. I guess I didn't get the memo.
Peter| 11.4.09 @ 10:39AM
@ JBOBS
"...We are the backbone of the party. Without us you are just a another Democrat. The conservative adds the distinction that makes a difference..."
Sorry JBOBS - the fact is that you lost. Chris Christie not only won without your help, he won in spite of your candidate. Despite you best efforts Doug Hoffman lost. You drew a line in the sand; you manfully thumped your chest; you got beaten to a pulp.
Yes, with the Conservatives on board, the Republican Party is a juggernaut. But without the Republicans, Conservatives are just another gaggle of losers making excuses for why their guy didn't win. The Republicans took the big prizes without you yesterday. You lost your chosen fight. A loser should lose graciously.
The Big E| 11.4.09 @ 11:58AM
You do realize that you made the Conservative's point - YOU CAN'T WIN WITHOUT US! SO QUIT IGNORING US AND START RUNNING CANDIDATES WE DON'T HAVE TO HOLD OUR COLLECTIVE NOESES TO VOTE FOR!!!!!!
Why is you RINO's always are demanding that we conservatives compromise our values and vote for your people, but you're never willing to compromise your "values" and vote for ours?
Peter| 11.4.09 @ 12:18PM
Both Christie and McDonnell DID win without you. You were a hindrance, not a help. Why is your response to my observation simply to spew spit-flecked epithets? RINO? You have no idea of what my political affiliation is, and no way of finding out. What are your "Values" anyway?
OK, I'll give you a clue. I'm not a Republican so I have no way of running a candidate you can vote for. That's up to you.
The Big E| 11.4.09 @ 2:04PM
Actually, McDonnell is a conservative, he ran as a conservative, has a conservative track record, and was attacked by Deeds as being TOO conservative, so yes, he won with conservatives. As for Christie, I doubt if many conservatives voted for Corzine, so he certainly didn't win without them.
As for my assessment of your political affiliation, I have previously posted before that from where I sit, I see little difference between Democrats and so called "moderate" Republicans. In fact, my complaint is that the Republican party appears to have become little more than the Republican wing of the Democratic party.
Peter| 11.4.09 @ 3:48PM
In contemporary politics the terms Conservative and Liberal have been drained of all meaning. When someone says "I'm a conservative" what does it mean beyond they listen to AM radio and watch Fox News?
John Stuart Mill, in his famous essay, "On Liberty" pointed out that a belief system runs into trouble when it enters the mainstream. Prior to that,when believers are still considered heretics and, thus, subject to punishment or death, people study the precepts and internalize the doctrine before they commit themselves publicly. But, once it becomes officially sanctioned and thus attains orthodoxy, adherents get a mere gloss on the basics and have only a superficial understanding of what they say they believe.
The problem comes, according to Mill, when those beliefs are challenged. Than, unable to defend their credo with logical arguments, they want to resort to fisticuffs.
I would argue that that is true of most those who claim to be Conservatives today - at least those who write comments in the newspapers and blogs both here and abroad. And I would further argue that the hurling of invective an epithets - like "liberal," "lib-tard," "RINO," and the like - at those who do not agree with every jot and tittle of some mythical form of "Pure" confession of conservative belief bears me out.
It may be true that McDonnell was "conservative" relative to Craig Deeds, but it is equally true that Chris Daggett ran in New Jersey as an officially sanctioned "Conservative" candidate whose goal was to siphon votes from the Republican candidate, who also thought of himself as being conservative. And Daggett, the "Conservative" lost out to Christie, a conservative.
The point of elections is to win, and not to let ideological purity become the enemy of good enough. If your preferred guy doesn't get the nod, then move on to Plan B. There is no asterix in the Loser's Column saying you woulda-coulda-shoulda- won.
victor| 11.7.09 @ 9:30PM
First of all peter, you need to know a few things. As a Libertarian, you get things easily confused, such as Daggett is not and never will be a "Conservative", He is a Liberal republican, otherwise known as a RINO!
He was for tax increases for gas, parkway tolls and sales tax.
Christie is also a moderate regular republican. He is no Conservative either.
The Republicans cannot win without us Conservatives. Christie won because we voted for him as a Republican and not as Christie Christie.
You have gotten everything in reverse.
Gina| 11.5.09 @ 12:36AM
We'll see what happens in Florida, loser. Bet ya dollars to donuts Rubio will be our next senator there.
RINOS got nothing without Conservatives; we own the republican party. Now, buzz off, troll.
Peter| 11.5.09 @ 10:50AM
Thank-you for bringing Shakespeare to life:
"A tale told by an idiot; full of sound and fury, but signifying nothing."
Margie| 11.5.09 @ 1:55PM
LOL!
Bob Belvedere | 11.4.09 @ 10:42AM
Quoted from and Linked to at:
THERE'S GOT TO BE A MORNING AFTER
It's Time To ROC 'N' ROLL: Restore Our Constitution & Restore Our Lost Liberties
Fritz| 11.4.09 @ 10:48AM
Thank you, Mr. Hoffman, for your effort. You have stopped another Specter from getting established. (...if she was even going to *stay* with the party!) You have energized and put a point on the discussion. We now see, much more clearly, the political whores who think that being un-principled and just figuring out what to *SAY* to get elected is all that matters.
No, all that ultimately matters is the Constitution. Take the libertarians and the conservatives and tell them THIS IS WHAT WE WILL DEFEND, AND FIGHT FOR, and it is a winning coalition based on principles. The debates within the coalition will be based on principles.
We need principled leaders whom we can trust when we let them go play in the halls of Congress. We shouldn't have to watch their every step. Scozzafava would have been a disaster and averting that disaster is worth the loss. The discussions we are having now are worth the loss. The targets now tattoed on Republican "leaders" foreheads are worth the loss. The win that we will achieve for Rubio, in Florida, is made possible by the lessons of this loss. The lessons that many of us are learning about the cowardice of the in-bred and un-principled party hacks--and how to overwhelm them at their little Tupperware parties to take the party back--make the loss worth it.
Get like-minded, right-thinking, and patriotic friends and crash the party! Otherwise we won't have candidates worth voting for. There'll be more Scozzafavas, Specters, or just limp fish selected by the crooks and their sycophants.
Bo Darville| 11.4.09 @ 11:00AM
So, Dear Leader Obama appoints a GOP Congressman to a position to flip his seat to the Democrats. It works and the "conservatives" declare victory. Can you pass the kool-aid?
Amber| 11.5.09 @ 12:40AM
Dede was a liberal democrat, too; at least the REAL democrat was honest about his political affiliation.
NO MORE RINOS!
Tim| 11.4.09 @ 11:06AM
When put in the proper light, Owens will only serve for one year and during that time he will not cast any crazy votes.
The congressional district is heavily GOP and with a new charasmatic candidate will go back to the GOP in 2010.
In the mean time I have to agree that with the establishment REP endorcing Owens and the fact that Hoffman was thrown in as a third party very conservative candidate and still got 45 per cent of the vote will force the GOP to take the Tea Party folks very serious.
In a related matter, watch for the Obama folks to try and cancel the new ABC's TV Series "V" which aired last night. It is spot on!
Richard Baker| 11.4.09 @ 11:11AM
Bo:
Considering that a total newcomer drove the anointed RNC candidate out, lost by a very small margin, and has fired a warning shot across the RNC bow, I'm impressed. Do you know how many times Lincoln lost elections before he became President? You could look it up, as Casey Stengel used to say. Not victory but a re-birth. Are you really this obtuse?
section9| 11.4.09 @ 11:25AM
In the one race in which Obama showed up to campaign, his candidate, John Corzine, got whacked by four points by The Fat Guy.
Sarah Palin, otoh, took a guy who was in the teens and brought him within an ace of winning.
Now tell me who had the better night?
toddes| 11.4.09 @ 12:31PM
Palin did not act alone. Give credit where credit is due. To all the local individuals who did not have national if not international name recognition who worked their butts off getting the word out about Hoffman.
Nick| 11.4.09 @ 3:48PM
I give credit were it is due.
Especially to Mssrs. McCain and Ferrara of AS, and Mr. Erickson of Redstate who brought Scozzafava's name to light.
But it was Mrs. Palin who delivered the knock-out punch to Scozzafava's campaign with one Facebook post. Now that is power.
Adam Smith| 11.4.09 @ 12:44PM
Please stop with this Palin cult of personality stuff. It is getting sickening.
She is more image than substance and frankly came off as an opportunist attempting to stay relevant and get back into the spotlight.
I do not think her endorsement helped at all given how polarizing a figure she is.
They are others far more worthy of praise and your post smacks of the same mindless hero worship we see from Zero's crowd.
Margie| 11.4.09 @ 2:29PM
Re: Palin~~ "She is more image than substance"
When you cannot recognize substance, you'd say such a thing.
What's your idea of substance? Ron Paul?
Adam Smith| 11.4.09 @ 3:44PM
Margie,
With regard to Palin, I agree with 90% of what she has to say. I have a skeet range on my back 40 and appreciate the style of life she has in Alaska. I like her a great deal.
That said, no she has not 1/10 the substance of Paul. Considering most of the rest of the pols have about 1/100th, that is not so bad.
Look up Pauls resume outside of politics and compare it with Palin's.
I came to my opinion of Palin after doing a lot of reading of local Alaska blogs and digging into what she was really like as gov, not what the press and her campaign put out.
Frankly, a lot of what I read was troubling as is her union husband.
There is a lot you don't know Margie, no offense, and I am not going to get into the Palin bashing. I just do not want to see her as opposition party nominee. We can not take another 4 years of Zero.
Margie| 11.4.09 @ 4:02PM
Doesn't Ron Paul believe we all descended from aliens?
Kidding... I'm kidding. But seriously, I know we will have to agree to disagree in order to keep it civil, and since you seem to be doing that, so will I. If you are charging Mrs. Palin with a less than stellar reputation, you shouldn't be allowed to just say something mysteriously incriminating without saying what it is. There are Liberals who are into smearing her because, well, they are Liberals, and well, ..they can. Facts, please.
As for Ron Paul. There's a lot I do know. He is for what's called "non-interventionism." He doesn't believe we should go to war outside of the United States. That is unrealistic to put it lightly, and cowardice at worst. He is also anti-Israel. And correct me if I'm wrong but isn't he also for the legalization of just about everything immoral under the Sun?
Sarah Palin is a Ronald Reagan conservative. She reflects MOST Americans wants and desires for America. She's got exactly what it takes. And she's hopefully not going away.
Adam| 11.4.09 @ 4:25PM
Margie :),
It is almost that bad when it comes to the attacks he gets from both sides of the isle.
As far as foreign policy?
We could slash foreign aid & defense by 30%. The fraud and waste is horrific.
As for non interventionism, I would like to see a lot less of the nation building but realize America has a role to take in the world and it is not the road we are headed down now.
I did my own homework on Palin because I found her very compelling and have an interest in the state. Folks who are really serious about picking her this early on as 'the" canidate would do well to do their own research.
Palin is a breath of fresh air Margie, but Thompson (who just became my front runner after his Cavuto appearance) would be my first choice at this stage of the game. I encourage you to see his comments on Cavuto today.
Nobama| 11.5.09 @ 12:43AM
Forget Paul--he's got a horses butt for a face; he'll never get elected. Sorry.
Palin 2012
Margie| 11.5.09 @ 2:01PM
Hey Nobama,
What do you think of a Hailey Barbour/Sarah Palin ticket?
Are you familiar with him?
Elgordo| 11.5.09 @ 4:58PM
A Giuliani - Palin ticket is my choice.
Margie| 11.5.09 @ 2:00PM
Hey! How did I let thais one slip past me? You say slash Defense? Absolutely not!!! Our Armed Forces deserve a raise and an hefty increase in funding. How about at least 50%? Close down some of the despicable Government Programs and give that money to our Troops! They are literally dying for it.
Ran / Si Vis Pacem | 11.4.09 @ 12:34PM
Stacy,
Thanks for the post and for your coverage of NY23.
The final score was :
Hoffman 46,746
Owens 50,712
Newt 00,000
Hoffman was doubly heroic given the turn-coat endorsement by Scozzy for the Democrat Owens...
boozebuster| 11.4.09 @ 12:45PM
Is it true that this district will be eliminated after the 2010 census? The dems would swallow this seat anyway.
Derek Leaberry| 11.4.09 @ 1:29PM
Perhaps conservatives and Republicans learned that candidates like Hoffman who are willfully ignorant of local district issues are not necessarily the wisest choices to pick in swing districts, especially ones experiencing economic stress. Just knowing the Limbaugh gospel does not make a good candidate.
As an aside, Hoffman also hinted that he is an open borders sort of Republican, much like John McCain and his sweetheart Lindsey Graham.
Spherical| 11.4.09 @ 2:05PM
Speaking as a bleeding heart liberal, I'd like to thank you all. Enjoy your generation in the political wilderness.
...and yet, to step back from the partisan sniping for a second, what I really can't stomach here is that in your zeal to elect a true conservative, you stepped all over the voters of NY-23. That district has elected moderate Republicans since the civil war. Scozzafava wasn't just the pick of the RNC, she was the pick of local Republicans as well. For a group of people usually concerned about states rights and individual freedoms, I'm surprised that you wouldn't have more respect for local politics and local voters.
You know, there was a time when I respected most conservatives. They seemed to be respectful and thoughtful people. People I could have an honest debate with, with the understanding that we both wanted the best for America, even if we disagreed about the path. Times have changed, haven't they?
Nick| 11.4.09 @ 3:41PM
Spoken just like Newt Gingrich!
There was no such thing as a "moderate" Republican after the Civil War.
Bydand76| 11.4.09 @ 4:43PM
God, spare me the sob story!
I am so sicj of hearing this drivel from liberals who claim "I used to respect conservatives".
That is a bunch of tripe in a haggis basket.
The only thing liberals respect from conservatives is when conservatives go the route of being a RINO.
That said, what you fail to see here is how the GOP is in the midst of a identity crisis. If 7000 votes still went to the RINO candidate then that means there are 7000 people in this district who identified with Mrs Scozzafava.
7000 psuedo-cons who have now directly handed an other wise republican district to an Obama hack.
The conservative movement can take responsibility for this because it would rather see a known enemy in the office than a wolf in sheepskin waiting to turn traitor at the earliest opportunity.
I would rather see a loss on principle than a victory on a house of cards.
Speaking of political wilderness? I notice that you fail to see the consequences of this election Spherical.
I would suggest that you need to do some serious self-introspection to find out who is heading into the proverbial "wilderness". Seems to me that there are going to be some hard times in the future for the socialist progressive coming up.
How did the voters get stepped on btw? Seems to me they got what they wanted didn't they?
7000 of them did at least. Moron!
Mr.Reality| 11.4.09 @ 2:41PM
BigJ and Nick, Paleeese I bet you were all outraged by stuff Leterman said about Palin and her family. And by the way mouth that kind of garbage insults towards my wife and I'd knock you out. Actually, you candy asses would get knocked out by my wife alone, and she is quite pretty and feminine. Bottom line a real man does not insult women like that. I'd say you people who applaud such low and vulgar language towards a woman are the RINOS. There is a party for you. It adores the gutter mouth gangster rappers. I think you get my point rude, wiseass slugs that you are.
Nick| 11.4.09 @ 3:39PM
The others can speak for themselves.
Going after a 14 year old girl is totally different than going after a grown woman running for office.
You forgot to mention Rush's hilarious bit about Scozzafava, beastiality, and all the RINOs. Ha-ha!
Now, go shave your legs and bake me some cookies! You Alan Alda, man-purse wearing, P.C. metro-sexual!
Nobama| 11.5.09 @ 12:46AM
LOL!! Nice smackdown, Nick. Little wussie troll is probably crying hot tears right now.
Big J| 11.4.09 @ 11:16PM
How did you know? Both my wife and I, as well as any decent human being that we know were outraged by the "stuff" Letterman said about Todd and Sarah's daughter. His "jokes" were absolutely disgusting (extraordinarily ironic when you factor in the extramarital activities Letterman has been engaging in). If you don't agree, then it's probably best you don't have children just yet.
Still trying to figure out the point of your commentary. There was something about "mouthing that kind of garbage" and "getting knocked out by my wife". What's that about? Who are you mad at and why?
I recommend some anger management courses.
Anyway Mr, it would be nice if you could stick to the topic at hand. Makes for a much more civil and relevant debate.
Other than that, could I recommend a more suitable site?
www.dailykos.com
dick| 11.4.09 @ 2:44PM
NY-23
Hoffman runs 18% worse than McHugh did in the last election--and loses in a district where there are 50,000 more Republicans than Democrats. Scozzafava was up by 10 points before the conservative sharks took interest.
Losing that elections takes rare talent--run Hoffman and Michelle Malkin for the White House in 2012.
To paraphrase Barry Goldwater, "Extremism in defense of teabaggers will get your a$$ handed to you every time".
Al Adab| 11.4.09 @ 3:56PM
You miss the point Dick. It isn't about winning or losing, it isn't about Dem v. Rep. The rules have changed. Now the issue is Liberty v. Tyranny. Like Cato it is better to die than live under tyranny. You may wish to continue living on your knees, but not many of us wish to join you.
If the Conservatives lose every election from now until elections are no more, they will be remembered for having stood for Liberty and Freedom against a dark night of slavery.
Bydand76| 11.4.09 @ 8:47PM
Dick.
The numbers dont back up your statment here.
IF what you say that Hoffman runs worse than McHugh (LOL) then how do you explain that only 7000 voters went for the RINO Dede?
Owens won by 3000 votes.
IF Hoffman runs again as the GOP candidate then his platform should be a bit different in that he will only have one opponent to focus on instead of two as he did this time.
Mrs Scozzafava' reactions to this election I think were far more revealing than anything else. IF (and this is a big IF) she was more dedicated to the party over politics then why did'nt she endorse the Conservative candidate over the Democrat candidate.
Everything else aside I would have to say that in my opinion the Republicans/Conservatives came out fairly well in this election. NJ. and VA both went for the Conservative candidate and without this intra-party fistfight I think that a Conservative Republican would have taken NY-23.
In response to your BG paraphrase. Are you suggesting that only the "right" has a monopoly on extremism? Because that would be a comical argument at best. I am just wondering what you meant by it. Thats all.
Pro Libertate!
Nobama| 11.5.09 @ 12:47AM
Just another liberal 'dick' spewing moronic DNC talking points.
Pete| 11.4.09 @ 2:46PM
Keep blathering you people. You're so short sighted, it's unreal. The Hoffman campaign was the opening battle in a long series of battles to take this country back. It was a training ground for grass roots activism. Hoffman was a third party candidate. He knocked out a RINO. That seat will be up election next year,if it survives redistricting and Owens is badly bruised. He has to produce or he'll be out. The RINO is political history and Newt has been damaged beyond repair. This is the start of getting rid of the deadwood. Reagan lost his first time around also but he came back stronger.
Margie| 11.4.09 @ 3:45PM
You've got that right. "We The People" in NY state will have the ability to nominate Doug Hoffman in 2010. The RINO'S are out of the way.
Hang in there, Mr. Hoffman~~ we're gunning for you!
Peter| 11.4.09 @ 4:34PM
I'll bet you a cookie that someone other than Hoffman wins the Republican primary next year and goes on to take back the seat in the General Election. And I'll also bet that - unless you actually live in NY-23 - you will have forgotten this whole kerfufle by then.
Nobama| 11.5.09 @ 12:52AM
I'll bet you a whole cake that republicans kick so much democrat ass next year that NY-23 won't even matter. And we won't run whiny RINOS like you, loser, because we taught the RNC a lesson this year.
Nobama| 11.5.09 @ 1:00AM
OOPS! Sorry, Peter, I misunderstood your post.
Pingback| 11.4.09 @ 4:25PM
Twitter Trackbacks for The American Spectator : 'Worth the Fight' [spectator.org] on links to this page. Here’s an excerpt:
Mr. Reality| 11.4.09 @ 7:06PM
You don't know women Nick. Busting open your piggy bank, and visiting the local spa for a happy ending is not the full man and women experience. If you you ever establish a truly intimate, and loving relationship with a woman you will be more able to understand my point. It is obvious that Rush himself has issues in this area as well. Mouth off that insulting smart talk to the newly elected gov of VA about his daugthers and see where it gets you. I'd say face down on the floor spitting teeth. Also, they did more than just insult her daughters, but Sarah's looks and intelect and all else about her. Have some class cement head, for goodness sake Limbaugh is a lousy role model for a man.
Nick| 11.4.09 @ 7:23PM
I never wrote Rush was some kind of role model. On top of being informative, he is very, very funny.
I'm not sure what you're talking about, "mouth off" what to the governor-elect?
Letterman made a vicious remark about 14 year old Willow Palin and a Yankee. Rush made a stupid comment about Chelsea once, and I didn't like it when he did.
This is not the same as making fun of Scozzafava. Or even when Letterman made fun of Mrs. Palin. Letterman has ceased being funny. But I was not outraged that he made unfunny jokes about her, just her daughter. Get it?
Now, where are my cookies, girly-man?
Nobama| 11.5.09 @ 12:57AM
David "Bitterman" Letterman is a perverted serial sexual harasser. He should have been tarred and feathered for his vicious comments about Willow Palin. Every humiliation he suffers from now on is well deserved.
Conservative Bob| 11.4.09 @ 7:43PM
A few observations.
The NY party officials and the NRCC lost this race the moment the nominated such a terrible candidate.
If Conservative and the GOP fight we may lose the election.
The GOP needs to get its act together. They should have looked much closer at the candidate before lending their support.
There will be an election next year and given the way the wind is blowing the Republican candidate will win.. I suspect that the next candidate will be much more of a limited government low tax individual liberty type that is to say conservative than was nominated this time.
I hope that the NRCC at least learned to vet candidates better, whether they learn that promoting limited government low tax individual liberty conservatism is a winning strategy remains to be seen.
This seat in the current time with the vast Dem advantages in both houses is not as significant in its loss as it would have been in Hoffman’s victory.
The left and certain of the more liberal wing of the GOP will use this to score point against their list of adversaries.
But the real message of yesterday was heard by the folks that need to hear it regardless of what the spinners and talking heads say… The blue dogs, the democrat moderates in the senate and the establishment elites of both parties have reason to be concerned.
We the People regardless of party are tired of being ignored and the political class will continue to do so at their peril.
Pingback| 11.4.09 @ 8:39PM
Latte Links (11/4) | Caffeinated Thoughts links to this page. Here’s an excerpt:
Interested Conservative| 11.4.09 @ 8:51PM
Ed Cox, NY GOP chair (w/ a fascinating background) has enormous opportunities ahead, and may well take advantage of Doug Hoffman's work in many ways.
First, send Hoffman to candidate school. He easily wins the district with any sort of polish at all.
Second, make the deal with the NY Con party. This should be real easy considering the statewide races coming, and Cox's newness to the job. Get past the current Albany crowd snafus.
Third, huge efforts in LI to follow up the big gains made yesterday.
Finally, Rangel, Schumer and Paterson will give plenty of chances and issues to capitalize on.
The NE GOP is down, but everyone seems to overlook how much is still there ready to go.
The US DOJ will have a challenge keeping a lid on all the corruption cases ahead.
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Time Wasters, Tea Pary OJT, RINO Chic: Morning Intell | DBKP - Death By 1000 Papercut links to this page. Here’s an excerpt:
Pingback| 11.5.09 @ 4:20AM
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Mr.Reality| 11.5.09 @ 10:42AM
OK Nick, one more time. It is bad form to insult a woman, especially on her appearance. If you've ever had a family member suffer from the ravages of an eating disorder you'd understand. Republicans claim to be the party of family values and decency. I doubt that in his entire life Reagan engaged in the low rent, insulting, indecent, cruel, and anti-human rhetoric Rush does regularly spout at women not blessed with physical beauty. He has done more than just insult Chelsea Clinton. He was and is constantly pointing out that Hillary is not quite runway model material. Strangely he hardly ever insults the looks of Pelosi, and why not ? Because she was a beauty queen and still quite pretty, all the botox stuff aside. But, if a female is heavy and somewhat plain or just a bit dumpy he can't wait to rip into her.Smash mouth conservatism will not win the day. Look at the two gov elecs in VA and NJ. Look at them on stage with their families and you see good decent men who know how to conduct themselves. The reason for Republicans to be wary of being overly aligned with Limbaugh is not his conservatism. Rather avoid him for his low rent character in the area of women, not to mention people born less blessed in a variety of ways than others. I'd love to hear Palin really go ROGUE and blast him on this matter. To hear her say if it is wrong for Letterman it is also wrong for Limbaugh would be a real blast of fresh air.
Nick| 11.5.09 @ 1:36PM
You must be married to a real Feminazi, huh? Real men don't use the word "sexist."
There is nothing WRONG about making fun of public figures, even their looks. Johnny Carson did it all the time. Letterman just isn't funny anymore.
Rush is. So is Laura Ingraham and Mark Levin, and they make fun of Shrillary the Hut, San Fran Nan, Helen Thomas, etc. (San Fran Nan is pretty? Whoa! I think you need lasik eye surgery, Mr. Alda.)
Why do you keep comparing Rush to Mssrs. Christie and McDonnell? They are politicians, Rush is a talk-radio host. Apples/oranges.
I will agree slightly. Rush can be crass sometimes and I wish he wouldn't. I wish I could listen to his show when my nieces and nephews are over. But all of society is more crass than it used to be.
You and your wife share the housework, don't you?
I'm still waiting for my cookies.
Mr.Reality| 11.5.09 @ 3:11PM
Where can I send a donation for your happy ending fund ? If Rush were just a radio host fine, no problem. He is either being presented as Mr. Conservative or Mr. Republican or both. In the eyes and mind of too many he represents the party. You yourself admit he is a poor role model and not somebody young people need to hear. If, we are the ones who believe character counts we must be concerned that this man who insults women in the most hurtful way should not be our leader in anyway shape or form. Nobody considers Letterman or Olberman or Bill Maher. , Ludicris Mr. democrat. I wish it were the case and we could pin their words on the dems. But the Dems manage to distance themselves from these people and their comments. I hardly listen to Rush these days. When I do I shake my head. When candidates run for president in 2012 the Republican who cuts Rush down to size gets my vote. Once again insulting women as he does is bad . We would not want our sons doing it. We picked up in suburbia. That means suburban women. Rush is a turn off to them when he does this stuff. Thus the GOP must find a way to put him in his place. That is the REALITY of the situation. We are Republicans. We are the boyscouts, and they are the hell's angells.
Nick| 11.5.09 @ 7:30PM
Mr. Limbaugh is JUST a radio host, Einstein.
Anybody who would cast a vote for someone based on one of Rush's bits is a fool. Luckily, there are not that many morons out there.
So you a fretting about nothing.
If you aren't going give me my cookies, how about dusting my furniture?
Margie| 11.5.09 @ 4:40PM
I think somebody has Rush envy. :^)
just...... sayin'.
Mr.Reality| 11.5.09 @ 5:19PM
I have democrat envy Margie. They have all the power. And, they will keep it if people like you don 't get out from under the ether.
Margie| 11.5.09 @ 7:09PM
Now what does that have to do with having Rush envy?
Richard Baker| 11.6.09 @ 8:32AM
Mr. Reality:
Your name is a oxymoron, isn't it?
Mr. Reality| 11.6.09 @ 12:05PM
Rush is not just a commentator or radio host. He is Soros with a radio show. He is partisan and tries to effect politics like all the others in media left or right. Rush is a big time player in the game of politics. I fully admit he can be a plus but he also can be a minus, a huge minus. That is the reality of American politics today. People besides politicians themselves running are a huge part of the action. It has always been but never has it been so revealed and realized by the public. I believe all the visible people who carry the GOP banner in one way or another must behave. And more reality, pelosi swore in 2 new dems this AM. But hey, let us block that out and live in ignorant, foolish bliss that Santa Claus is coming next November because American is suddenly some lock step conservative nation.
Margie| 11.6.09 @ 2:34PM
I do agree with you that Rush is not just a commentator or radio host. He's a manly man. Girly girls and cowgirl girls alike adore him. Always will. He is the envy of all manly men as well, and especially not so manly men. Thus the hurling and swirling insults by the latter.
We all effect politics with what we say. Better to have a backbone and tell the truth. Let the chips fall where they may. Rush does that.
You make enemies when you tell the truth. Thank God for elRushbo~~he's my kind of guy!
Mr.Reality| 11.6.09 @ 4:53PM
Define manly Margie. please I'm quite curious as is my wife. Look he is a hard worker and fought against all sorts of wretched people who tried to bury his career. I know what those rat bastards did to keep him down. And now the same crowd screws him in the NFL deal-hey that is St. Louis 's loss. He"d of been a great promoter and salesman and lifted that sorry ass franchise up. But, if you can't see the problems with his political strategy and ideas , and that they have flaws, and somehow he walks on water so be it. If you can't see that he hurts the GOP with the women's vote fine, I won't try to change you. Good luck. Keep in mind I am a republican first, not an idealogy fanatic, but rather a political agnostic. it is a much sounder approach. I am at a loss , bewildered that you find such a person infallible.
Nick| 11.6.09 @ 5:34PM
In other words, you're a "squish", huh?
Margie| 11.7.09 @ 12:22AM
Didn't say I found him infallible. Just that I think he's super. He actually says what I'm already thinking. Every single day. Sometimes I wonder if we're related. :^)
His reasoning is excellent. He tells it like it is. And he is usually right. What can I say? It's true.
The women's vote? Manly men don't pander. It's like Ronald Reagan's attitude. Republicans have the big tent. You're invited. Up to you if you want to come in.
Conservatives don't pander to anyone. They tell it like it is and let the chips fall where they may. That's good enough for me.
Oh and I find it hilarious that you actually think Rush hurts the GOP vote! But we're all entitled to our own opinions, just not to our own facts.
~It's been swell.
Margie| 11.7.09 @ 12:23AM
* meant to say, above "find it hilarious that you think Rush hurts the GOP with the women's vote."
Mr. Reality| 11.6.09 @ 5:53PM
No. I just am not a cement head. Listen apply being an agnostic to any subject and you are more likely to find truth. You ask questions. Like this weeks election. Ask was it really so bad fot the dems ? Is two seats stronger in the house a complete shellacking ? Did or did not the Guv elects lay off the hard guy conservative nonsense ? Were they not compassionate men ? Indeed, why did the senate vote 98-0 to extend unemployment checks ? 40 repubs votes yes-are they squishes ? See it gets harder when you question things. Go to your radios children, Rush will blather on and you won't have to think too hard. My last post. I gotta go settle a score or two with some Hell's Angells punks. Then later I gotta go service my harem.
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