The American Spectator

S.L. Toddard| 10.22.09 @ 7:46AM

Donald Rumsfeld directed the Defense Science Board Task Force to assess the effects of the Bush administration's policies in the War On Terror, Iraq and Aghanistan (link below):

"The Task Force began by noting what are the "underlying sources of threats to America's national security": namely, the "negative attitudes" towards the U.S. in the Muslim world and "the conditions that create them":

“Negative attitudes and the conditions that create them are the underlying sources of threats to America's national security and reduced ability to leverage diplomatic opportunities.”

And what most exacerbates anti-American sentiment, and therefore the threat of Terrorism? "American direct intervention in the Muslim world" -- through our "one sided support in favor of Israel"; support for Islamic tyrannies in places like Egypt and Saudi Arabia; and, most of all, "the American occupation of Iraq and Afghanistan":

"American direct intervention in the Muslim World has ... elevated the stature
of and support for radical Islamists, while diminishing support for the United States to single-digits in some Arab societies.

• "Muslims do not 'hate our freedom,' but rather, they hate our policies. The overwhelming majority voice their objections to what they see as one-sided support in favor of Israel and against Palestinian rights, and the ... support for ... tyrannies, most notably Egypt, Saudi Arabia, Jordan, Pakistan, and the Gulf states.

• "Thus when American public diplomacy talks about bringing democracy to Islamic societies, this is seen as no more than self-serving hypocrisy. Moreover, saying that 'freedom is the future of the Middle East' is seen as patronizing, suggesting that Arabs are like the enslaved peoples of the old Communist World — but Muslims do not feel this way: they feel oppressed, but not enslaved.

• "Furthermore, in the eyes of Muslims, American occupation of Afghanistan and Iraq has not led to democracy there, but only more chaos and suffering. U.S. actions appear in contrast to be motivated by ulterior motives, and deliberately controlled in order to best serve American national interests at the expense of truly Muslim self-determination."

http://www.acq.osd.mil/dsb/rep.....cation.pdf

http://www.salon.com/news/opin.....index.html

Indiana Alex| 10.22.09 @ 8:09AM

But we were told by The One that this was the Just War.

Son Of Sam| 10.22.09 @ 8:53AM

The stimulus was NEVER about "helping the economy", anymore than the so-called war on poverty was about helping poor people. They were --and are-- about attacking the middle class, robbing us of our hard earned money, and then handing it out to fatcat bankers, illegal aliens and other moochers and freeloaders.

My response to the ObamaNazis and their erstwhile allies such as Toddard can be paraphrased from the Ben Folds Five song: give me my money back, you bitch!

stand strong until freedom dawns
Son Of Sam
http://www.samadamssos.bravehost.com/

Louis Jenkins| 10.22.09 @ 9:19AM

The Messiah in Chief is apparently like most of his cohorts. He doesn’t want to break any eggs, offend, or get his hands dirty. Wake up oh great Messiah! If you’re an American (although I doubt so) you’re offensive no matter how much you grovel, stoop, or bow. Will subservience gain respect from those who seek to do this nation harm? Licking the boots of tyrants, tin horn dictators, or terrorist supporters on the world stage will gain nothing more than further distain. It’s time to Cowboy Up Messiah. When the rules of engagement do not allow a soldier to fight and complete the mission it is plainly a poor use of their abilities and training. Peace keeping, nation building, allowing for another election, or planting Democracy is playing pattie-cake. If Al Quada or the Taliban are bonfide opposition then confront them as such! They really couldn’t care less about your Stimulus, Executive Wage Controls, Cap and Trade, or National Health Care. Otherwise, stop wasting our soldier’s life blood in an un-tenable situation.

Mike| 10.22.09 @ 10:11AM

S. L.

I do believe that the presence of our military in Muslim countries does have some detrimental effect so there is some veracity to your comment.

The question I have for you is: What was causing the terrorist problem in the time before troops were present? This has been going on my entire lifetimeand beyond.

Mike Johnston
SFC USA (RET)

S.L. Toddard| 10.22.09 @ 10:22AM

The Task force found that the main causes of Muslim antagonism toward America are "American direct intervention in the Muslim world", our "one sided support in favor of Israel", our "support for Islamic tyrannies in places like Egypt and Saudi Arabia," and "the American occupation of Iraq and Afghanistan."

Only one of those causes is a recent development. The rest have been happening for decades.

Mike| 10.22.09 @ 9:11PM

So the Muslim terrorism of the late 18th and early 19th centuries along the Barbary Coast that led to the "shores of Tripoli" was caused by America how exactly?

Red Phillips| 12.30.09 @ 9:35AM

Mike, piracy, which has been going on as long as there have been ships and seas, is not the same thing as modern terrorism. Was Black Beard a terrorist or a crook?

Crusad| 10.22.09 @ 2:53PM

"What was causing the terrorist problem in the time before troops were present?"

Uhh, islam???

Islam~~~
1 - is most definitely NOT a religion
2 - is most definitely NOT tolerant of any true religion
3 - is most definitely NOT compatible with Western/American-style republican government
4 - is most definitely NOT compatible with FREEDOM

So Mike, my answer is: islam. What do I win?

Mike| 10.22.09 @ 9:08PM

Crusad

I agree that the problem is Islam. I have to take issue with you first point. Islam is, by definition, a religion. Not one I agree with or pretend to understand but a religion none the less.

Your point that Islam is the problem is what I was trying to point out to S.L. If Bill has problems with everyone else in the workplace then chances are the problem is Bill, not everyone else.

Mike Johnston
SFC USA (RET)

Lullaby's, Legends and Lies| 10.22.09 @ 11:11AM

“The rest have been happening for decades.” Decades my ass S.L.!! Try 233 years, at least!! America’s problem with the Islamic States of the World dates all the way back to the end of the American Revolution. Once we were an independent nation, without the backing of the most powerful country in the World (England), it was game on for Islam (they declared War on us don’t you know?). The States of Algiers, Morocco, and Tripoli would seize our ships, take our cargo, hold our sailor’s for ransom (or sell them into slavery, if we didn’t pay), and then expected us to pay tribute to them each and every year also.
So these attacks on our young Nation were one of the reasons for establishing the Constitution of the United States. We desperately needed a Navy to defend our interests abroad (in the Mediterranean). And under the Articles of Confederation, the various States couldn’t agree to establish one (damn Rhode Island). So in a weird way, Islam was a major reason for establishing our Constitution, so thank you very much for that Islam (but only for that). Oh yeah, by the way, then with our newly established Navy in hand, we proceeded to learn how to use it very well. And over time, we kicked their Islamic asses all over the Mediterranean, and they cut the crap finally (hostages, ransom). And in the end the Barbary Wars added a very cool line to the Marine Corp’s Hymn, “To the shores of Tripoli”. But of course, you know all this Toddard, because you know everything. Let’s Go Yankees!!

S.L. Toddard| 10.22.09 @ 11:35AM

LLL, I'm not going to go deeply into the profound differences between piracy in the 19th century and Islamic terrorism now other than to say that the two just aren't analogous. Really, they're not. Yes our history of interaction with the Middle East goes back centuries. But our history of intense intervention in their political affairs, our one-sided support for Israel her conflicts and our propping-up of tyrannous regimes in the Middle East - which are seemingly the main causes of anti-American terrorism - are not centuries-old practices but decades old ones.

Lullaby's, Legends and Lies| 10.22.09 @ 12:40PM

S.L.: Well personally I think the current problem with Islam isn’t anything new at all, it’s just American’s involvement with Islam that is. The Anti-American terrorism perpetrated by Islam (yes all of Islam), is only a new chapter in this religion’s disgusting 1,400 year history. But it’s the same old problems from way back then too, only with different weapons and victims today. They didn’t blow up buses back then with suicide vests on (hadn’t been invented yet-that’s why), back then, they’d just ride their horses into the neighboring village, and with a sword to you throat, asked you to convert or die. That sounds like terrorism to me (maybe not to you), so nothing’s changed with Islam really, just the times. Maybe a few of the characters on Islamic stage have changed, IE: enter America, & Israel, but everybody else was there at the beginning (terrorism, kidnapping, ransom, invasions (and many more)-all in the name of Allah, Peace be upon him. Excuse me, I’ve got to go throw up after writing that last sentence.

So the spread of the one true Religion has always been the problem, since it first escaped for the Saudi Arabian peninsula back in the 7th Century. So you call it piracy back then (the Barbary Wars), and terrorism today (9/11), and don’t see a connection between the two. I just call it the same old same old, Islamic problem, terrorism then, terrorism today. And you think America has caused all of this? Well I disagree, we may have fanned the flames, by sticking our noses into Middle East problems (more so within the last 100 years), but the flames were burning already.

So let’s do the math together, Islam is 1,400 years old, and America is 233 years old? That’s like one million years difference (I was never good at math) right? And America is the problem, because of our intervension in the Middle East in the last 100 years? But in this particular case, we can’t use the other 1,100 years of history against Islam, we can only use its interaction with the USA within the last 100 years? Is that right? And here you were last night, blaming the drift away from the Constitution on Lincoln during the Civil War. You’re confusing me here S.L., all evidence is admissible, when you're comparing Apples and Oranges, isn't it?

Let’s Go Yankees!!

Red Phillips| 12.30.09 @ 9:43AM

So LLL, what is your solution then? Just kill all the Muslims? Short of that maybe invade a few more Muslim countries and force them to renounce Islam? What's your plan big talker? The sensible plan is to disengage from the Middle East and restrict immigration. Not bomb more countries. Now people are talking about invading Yemen. Good grief! Will this foolishness never end?

Ned| 10.22.09 @ 11:22AM

It’s time for General Patton to show up at the bridge and shoot the two mules, Health Care and Cap and Trade, and have them thrown off the side. Then addressing President Obama, their owner, he can say “don’t you know good men are dying out there. It’s time to quit the ahhs and uhhs and get this show on the road.

Louis Jenkins| 10.22.09 @ 12:31PM

And as Patton said, it's better that a poor battle plan be quickly carried out, than a great battle plan be carried out slowly. Sounds like the Messiah and Chief has already heard Patton's saying, at least on the domestic front.

L. Ross| 10.22.09 @ 4:26PM

Toddard:

Has it ever occured to you that the task force is wrong? A lot of sharp people thought that Neville Chamberlain did a lot of good negotiating "Peace for our time" with Hitler. They were wrong. I believe in my heart the task force took their biases in with them and came out with a standard lot of liberal boilerplate, rather than learning about the true evils is islam. Because we cannot, in the 21st century, truely believe that any religion is evil. Must be our fault.

Red Phillips| 12.30.09 @ 9:48AM

You can ALWAYS count on it. When interventionists are arguing with non-interventionists, they will quickly resort to the Neville Chamberlain card as their all purpose justification for any intervention anywhere. You really need to come up with some new arguments because the Neville Chamberlain card is getting really old.

Dasboot| 10.22.09 @ 5:39PM

We support Israel because we support civilization as opposed to barbarism. Why liberals always side with murderers under the guise of seeking 'peace' is so old and predictable now that its barely worth mentioning.

Bannockburn| 10.22.09 @ 7:35PM

Mr. Kirchheppener is dead on. This is a classic butter v. guns delimna. The military will be sacrificed by this administration in order to provide the mother of all entitlement programs - universal healthcare. The end results - a stronger and emboldened China and Russia and a national debt that can never be paid off without crushing taxes on the middle class.

Dems, prepare thyselves, Nov 2010 is your day of reckoning.

MD Miller| 10.22.09 @ 8:48PM

Another very a propos article by Mr Kichhoefer.

JimE| 10.23.09 @ 1:23AM

Toddard the islamic appeaser, change you name to buffoonish anus.

d. Kirk| 10.26.09 @ 1:45AM

very thought provoking article, why are they bang banging on all these domestic issues, but sitting around and looking at each other about Afghanistan?

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