The Obama Watch
Obama and the CIA: Making the Terrorists’ Day
Playing politics with America’s defenses and settling scores with its defenders.
(Page 2 of 3)
Why should they aggressively pursue terrorists if they might get hauled in for prosecution? Why would smart, talented young people who want to defend their country go to the CIA if first they need to lawyer up? Why would our current officers on the battlefield continue their dogged pursuit of Al Qaeda if they are going to get nailed for trying to extract information…to prevent another attack?
Or, as the Wall Street Journal editorialized last week, “The message that Mr. Holder’s criminal probe will send to thousands of men and women is that they had better not do anything remotely controversial [for] American safety, even with a lawyer’s permission.”
Criminal Legal Memos
Obama’s rabid left-wing base bears a special hatred for the Justice Department lawyers who wrote the legal memos during the Bush Administration concluding that the CIA’s enhanced interrogation techniques were not illegal torture under U.S. law. They want these lawyers criminally prosecuted as well, and disbarred. Holder has Justice’s Office of Professional Responsibility (OPR) already conducting an investigation of this.
I led a review of these legal memos by the American Civil Rights Union (ACRU), which I serve as General Counsel, and published a report on them which is available at the ACRU website. The memos add up to 124 single-spaced pages of careful legal reasoning reviewing all applicable statutes, treaties, cases, and word definitions, and applying that law to a thorough discussion of the CIA’s enhanced interrogation techniques. There is no precedent for criminally prosecuting a lawyer for any legal memo, let alone a careful and thorough job of legal reasoning like this. Mere disagreement with the legal conclusions does not remotely provide a foundation for criminal liability, but I don’t know of even a scholarly rebuttal to this work. Indeed, in my study of the memos, I found their conclusions to be legally correct.
Criminally prosecuting these lawyers for this work would be an abuse of power morally equivalent to taking political prisoners. Disbarring them for such work would be similar. Given the enormous benefit to the American people from the interrogations discussed below, the lawyers and the interrogators should be sanctioned if they had failed to pursue the interrogations, and so failed in their duty to protect the American people.
Saving Thousands of Innocent Americans
Waterboarding involves laying the detainee on his back with a cloth over his face and pouring water on the cloth. The body naturally reacts to this procedure with feelings of drowning and panic, even if the detainee can still physically breathe and knows it. But the waterboarding does not produce actual physical pain. Moreover, under the CIA’s interrogation rules, the water pouring must be stopped and the cloth removed after a maximum of 40 seconds. Also, such applications of waterboarding may be done no more than 6 times in a maximum of 2 hours in a day. Consequently, the CIA’s waterboarding did not involve “severe physical pain” or “prolonged mental suffering,” and so was not illegal torture under U.S. law.
The CIA required a doctor and a psychologist to be present during waterboarding to ensure that the interrogators complied with the requirements and there was no violation of the legal standard. Specific authorization had to be obtained from CIA headquarters before waterboarding could be applied. Moreover, such waterboarding could only be used if (1) the CIA had credible intelligence that a terrorist attack is imminent, (2) there were substantial and credible indicators the subject had actionable intelligence that could prevent, disrupt or delay this attack, and (3) other interrogation methods had failed or were unlikely to yield actionable intelligence in time to prevent the attack.
As a result, waterboarding was used on just three of the most high level, senior terrorist leaders. One was Khalid Sheik Mohammad (KSM), who was the operational mastermind behind the September 11, 2001 attacks. He was the general who designed the operation, picked the targets, assigned the terrorists to their planes, and gave them their specific marching orders. After 9/11, KSM assumed the role of operations chief for al Qaeda around the world.
Another was Abu Zubaydah, who, the CIA reported, “served as Usama Bin Laden’s senior lieutenant” and was “involved in every major terrorist operation carried out by al Qaeda.” He also served as “Deputy Camp Commander for al Qaeda’s training camp in Afghanistan” and “acted as al Qaeda’s coordinator of external contacts and foreign communications.”
Despite uninformed media commentary, waterboarding has a history of being highly effective in the most difficult interrogations, and it was so in these cases. Information obtained only by waterboarding Zubaydah led to the capture of KSM. Before waterboarding, KSM laughed off CIA interrogators, saying in regard to questions about future terrorist attacks, “soon you will find out.” After waterboarding, he became a fountain of information about Al Qaeda capabilities, methodologies and mindsets.
This included information that stopped two terrorist plots underway which would have killed thousands of innocent Americans. One was Al Qaeda’s planned “Second Wave,” a second 9/11 on the west coast, involving East Asian Al Qaeda operatives crashing a hijacked airliner into the Library Tower in Los Angeles, the tallest building on the west coast. The second was a plot to bring down the Brooklyn Bridge.
Cheney summarized on Fox News Sunday:
My overwhelming view is that the enhanced interrogation techniques were absolutely essential in saving thousands of American lives and preventing further attacks against the United States and giving us the intelligence we needed to go find Al Qaeda, to find their camps, to find out how they were being financed. Those interrogations were involved in the arrest of nearly all the Al Qaeda members that we were able to bring to justice. I think they were directly responsible for the fact that for eight years, we had no further mass casualty attacks against the United States.”
About the Author
Peter Ferrara is Director of Entitlement and Budget Policy at the Heartland Institute, General Counsel of the American Civil Rights Union, Senior Fellow at the National Center for Policy Analysis, and Senior Policy Advisor on Entitlements and Budget Policy at the National Tax Limitation Foundation. He served in the White House Office of Policy Development under President Reagan, and as Associate Deputy Attorney General of the United States under President George H.W. Bush.
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drudge ette obama| 9.2.09 @ 6:25AM
Panetta has no convictions. He should quit. And then he should hold a press conference and announce that Obama should disband the CIA altogether. Bt he won't.
Obama has no convictions. He should fire Panetta and close the CIA shop. But he won't.
These would be the actions of courageous far left Marxists. Obama and Panetta are not courageous.
TennesseeVolunteer| 9.2.09 @ 6:49AM
Peter, the more I read articles like this one, the American people are going to 'take a later' on this government. The intrusion of this leftist administration has driven many small businessmen to 'go Galt' in different ways. The American people will do the same if any kind of health care and cap and trade bills go through.
They are killing our economy. Who in the hell would take a risk now to open a business. You can't get a loan, there are fewer and fewer customers. People are even growing their own tobacco! I've effectively closed my business and am taking a job, i'll reopen when the customers come back. More people on unemployment, less disposable income from my emloyees and myself to 'spread around'. CIA employees are going to 'go Galt' too. they'll show up but they won't take one for the team because the Head coach and the team legal rep (Holder) hate the very country the CIA people have sworn to protect.
Vote all of them out in 2010 and 2012 and raise holy hell with them until then1 Where will you be on Sept 12?
S.L. Toddard| 9.2.09 @ 7:16AM
The Convention Against Torture, signed into law by President Reagan (who called torture “an abhorrent practice”), states:
Article 2
1. Each State Party shall take effective legislative, administrative, judicial or other measures to prevent acts of torture in any territory under its jurisdiction.
2. No exceptional circumstances whatsoever, whether a state of war or a threat or war, internal political instability or any other public emergency, may be invoked as a justification of torture.
3. An order from a superior officer or a public authority may not be invoked as a justification of torture
Article 4
1. Each State Party shall ensure that all acts of torture are offences under its criminal law. The same shall apply to an attempt to commit torture and to an act by any person which constitutes complicity or participation in torture.
Article 7
1. The State Party in territory under whose jurisdiction a person *alleged* to have committed any offence referred to in article 4 is found, *shall* in the cases contemplated in article 5, if it does not extradite him, submit the case to its competent authorities for the purpose of prosecution.
**********
The President is *bound by law* to investigate allegations of torture. Torture is illegal in the U.S., our laws *compel* investigation into torture allegations, and torture allegations have been made.
One may either recognize that our laws *compel* investigations and demand they take place, or one may stand against the Rule of Law and demand that our gov’t only obey the law when it is convenient – i.e. support totalitarianism.
Funny, isn’t it, how quickly the phony reverence for the Constitution the Fox News Right so flamboyantly and disingenuously pretends to have goes right out the window when it is no longer politically expedient? All the talk of “We The People”, and the Tree of Liberty, and the phony patriotism and counterfeit love of “Our Freedoms” magically evaporates the second it conflicts with their party loyalty.
S.L. Toddard| 9.2.09 @ 7:27AM
"None of this involved "severe physical pain" or "prolonged mental suffering," and so did not amount to illegal torture"
We wrung confessions from people by freezing them into hypothermia, by hanging them from shackles until their shoulders dislocated, by beating them with rifle butts, by threatening to blow their brains out, by subjecting them to water torture – some times scores and even hundreds of times, by threatening to rape their wives and daughters, by choking them until they passed out, and – in over a hundred cases – by torturing them *to death*. Over a hundred people have been murdered during "harsh interrogations" in our torture chambers. By definition, any interrogation so harsh that it *kills* the detainee is torture.
And that's to say nothing of the fact that Peter Ferrara, obviously, has no real idea as to the extent of what happened. Whether or not Peter Ferrara wants to believe torture happened is not germane - the United States is *bound by law* to investigate *allegations* of torture, and *allegations* have been made, ergo investigations are *compelled*.
"Remember these are mass murderers targeting innocent American civilians we were dealing with"
Of course, Peter Ferrara has no idea who "we were dealing with". Or perhaps Peter Ferrara is simply ignorant, and unaware that we have detained and "harshly interrogated" innocent people captured far from any battlefield who we later released due to their innocence. These people were not "mass murderers targeting innocent American civilians", which demonstrates conclusively that Peter Ferrara is either profoundly ignorant of the subject at hand, or he is a liar.
Either way he should not be taken seriously.
Big J| 9.2.09 @ 7:32AM
I'm with you, Tennessee. Remember, there are many ways to go Galt.
Learn more at T.E.A.M. America. Should be up today.
www.myteamusa.org
We need you.
As for this whole CIA investigation, I'll tell you exactly what it is about.
The left has absolute disdain for the United States of America. Rather than dwelling on all the great contributions by this country to the world (too many to list), they choose to vilify our nation. When there is nothing to vilify, crimes are fabricated.
There is never any thought to the consequences of this behavior (liberalism by definition focuses on intentions, not actual outcomes).
If you want to truly understand the workings of the liberal mind, check out this video by Evan Sayet (be prepared, as it's about an hour long, but well worth it):
http://www.heritage.org/Press/Events/ev030309a.cfm
He nails the average liberal square between the eyes.
Unfortunately, they have no qualms about weakening our national security.
God help us all when the dam breaks.
S.L. Toddard| 9.2.09 @ 7:40AM
"As for this whole CIA investigation, I'll tell you exactly what it is about."
U.S. law *compels* investigation of torture allegations. Allegations of torture have been made. Ergo investigations are *compelled by law*.
Sorry.
Internet Troll's Unite!| 9.2.09 @ 7:46AM
I'm sure Lefty retard trolls will agree to go after Clinto---in three, two, one---
"Modern methods of rendition include a form where suspects are taken into US custody but delivered to a third-party state, often without ever being on US soil, and without involving the rendering country's judiciary; they have been termed "extraordinary rendition".[citation needed] The CIA was granted permission to use rendition in a presidential directive signed by US President Bill Clinton in 1995.[12]".
What a bunch of Morons these trolls that gather here are.
By all means, let's call Slick Willie in!
Suckers.
S.L. Toddard| 9.2.09 @ 7:52AM
"By all means, let's call Slick Willie in!"
Indeed, if allegations arise that Bill Clinton ordered torture then yes indeed he should be investigated. Our laws demand it, and only a cynical, opportunistic hypocrite would demand they be applied only when it is politically convenient, correct?
Big J| 9.2.09 @ 8:15AM
Take a hike, toddard.
No one cares about the quasi-conservatism you spout here.
You're a straight up liberal America Hater who childishly seeks attention that you apparently lack elsewhere in your life.
Here's five bucks: go buy a clue.
Skillet head.
S.L. Toddard| 9.2.09 @ 8:22AM
"No one cares about the quasi-conservatism you spout here"
I'm sorry, but I'm not sure that someone who is wholly unfamiliar with conservatism of any stripe can be expected to identify "quasi-conservatism".
There is no definition of "Conservatism" that does not include a respect for the Rule of Law and a reverence for our Constitution. Our laws and Constitution *compel* investigations, ergo if you do not support investigations you are not a conservative.
Internet Trolls Unite!| 9.2.09 @ 8:22AM
Then I guess we'll see you posting on DUmmies, Kos, and Moron.org calling for investigations of Clinton in...three, two......
Take Big J's five bucks-----and leave.
You bore us -----*yawn*.
R Martin| 9.2.09 @ 8:48AM
S.L. Toddard fails to make the bilgewater he's pumping palatable, even using his seemingly erudite sophistry. The required legal investigation he refers to has already been conducted, and the subjects have been exonerated. Another legal investigation has nothing to do with the law; it is just politics--ugly politics. If this leftist plan proceeds, I suspect the public clamor over Obamacare will seem mild by comparison. What ever happened to..."Protect against all enemies foreign and domestic"? This is really shameful stuff.
S.L. Toddard| 9.2.09 @ 9:05AM
"The required legal investigation he refers to has already been conducted"
Really. Which legal authority conducted this criminal investigation and when?
S.L. Toddard| 9.2.09 @ 9:11AM
Also please provide the time and place of the criminal prosecutions as compelled per the article below:
"The State Party in territory under whose jurisdiction a person *alleged* to have committed (torture) is found, *shall*... submit the case to its competent authorities for the purpose of prosecution."
Sam| 11.20.09 @ 5:21PM
S.L. Toddard,
I'm glad you understand FACTS. These conservative posters tend to care only about bashing liberals, Dems, independents, whoever doesn't agree with their philosophy.
I admire you for putting your argument into clear facts, but they don't buy facts. You could give them all the evidence and proof in the world about how we tortured and how it is wrong and they will not change their views.
But if you make up lies about the Democrats/liberals plans to destroy the country or turn it socialist without any facts at all, they will certainly believe that!
Eddie| 9.2.09 @ 9:16AM
It's amazing to me how this administration keeps living in the past, pulling up old news and old incidents and so on in an apparent attempt to divert the public's view of what is really going on. I suppose when your poll ratings and your health reform bills and your Communist appointments to government positions becomes apparent to all of us, you must do something to help hide the screw ups!
Bram| 9.2.09 @ 9:23AM
There will be convictions - the kind any prosecutor can get when people don’t have a perfect memory of events 5 years ago – the Scooter Libby kind. And, even if these men who dedicated their lives to our protection are not convicted of a trumped up charge, they will be financially ruined by legal fees and unemployable in their fields.
This isn’t justice. This is a betrayal. This is suicide.
S.L. Toddard| 9.2.09 @ 9:46AM
\"It\'s amazing to me how this administration keeps living in the past, pulling up old news and old incidents\"
I have to assume that you were vehemently against the Clinton impeachment, due to Congress\'s \"living in the past, pulling up old news and old incidents\". Shouldn\'t they have looked forward, not backward? And don\'t you find it ridiculous when courts \"live in the past\" every time a bank robber fails to strictly adhere to banking regulations? I mean it\'s unseemly in the extreme to politicize (banking) policy differences, no?
Every criminal prosecution by definition is \"living in the past\". What is wrong with these people? Saddam\'s trial being a prime example. I mean really why couldn\'t these people \"look forward, not backward\" instead of politicizing their policy differences with Saddam? After all, all Saddam Hussein did was commit war crimes - violate international law - and we all know such things are mere \"policy differences\" - distractions - right?
Internet Troll Unite!| 9.2.09 @ 9:49AM
Looks like Sh*thead Liberal's (Otherwise know as S.L.) Troll robo-responder software has developed a back-slash glitch.
As for "it's" comments.
Double *yawn*.
S.L. Toddard| 9.2.09 @ 9:51AM
TEST
\"Hello this is a test, this is the test\'s test, it\'s a test\"
S.L. Toddard| 9.2.09 @ 9:59AM
"Looks like Sh*thead Liberal's (Otherwise know as S.L.) Troll robo-responder software has developed a back-slash glitch."
Don't you worry - together we will find a way past this setback!
S.L. Toddard| 9.2.09 @ 10:00AM
Ah! That's better. Now, as I was saying:
"It's amazing to me how this administration keeps living in the past, pulling up old news and old incidents"
I have to assume that you were vehemently against the Clinton impeachment, due to Congress's "living in the past, pulling up old news and old incidents". Shouldn't they have looked forward, not backward? And don't you find it ridiculous when courts "live in the past" every time a bank robber fails to strictly adhere to banking regulations? I mean it's unseemly in the extreme to politicize (banking) policy differences, no?
Every criminal prosecution by definition is "living in the past". What is wrong with these people? Saddam's trial being a prime example. I mean really why couldn't these people "look forward, not backward" instead of politicizing their policy differences with Saddam? After all, all Saddam Hussein did was commit war crimes - violate international law - and we all know such things are mere "policy differences" - distractions - right?
Dustoff| 9.2.09 @ 10:05AM
S.L.Tod
I have to assume that you were vehemently against the Clinton impeachment, due to Congress\'s \"living in the past
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Messing with a intern and lying to a judge was NOT in the pass. Did your memory just fail you?
S.L. Toddard| 9.2.09 @ 10:10AM
"Messing with a intern and lying to a judge was NOT in the pass."
Wait - his offences, at the time of his impeachment, were not in the past? They were... in the future?
Explain.
XW34| 9.2.09 @ 11:22AM
S.L. Toddard is surely one of the ACLU's leaders in identifying CIA agents for his terrorist buddies. Hence his numerous rambling and incoherent posts.
Tim| 9.2.09 @ 11:27AM
Obama took control of interrogations? He really has a thing for micro management doesn't he? He's running banks and car companies and trying to run hospitals and pick a new dog and borrow 10 trillion dollars. Now this too? The man can multi-task!
Dustoff| 9.2.09 @ 11:27AM
S.L tod
Wait - his offences, at the time of his impeachment, were not in the past? They were... in the future?
Explain.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++
Thanks for being STUPID!
You know what I wrote and the meaning.
Tim| 9.2.09 @ 11:28AM
If Bush had announced he was doing this EXACT SAME THING, the Left would have plotzed.
S.L. Toddard| 9.2.09 @ 11:34AM
"If Bush had announced he was doing this EXACT SAME THING, the Left would have plotzed."
Right - exactly how the Fox News Right "plotzed" when Clinton purported to "nation-build", and yet when Bush did it they called it treason to... "plotz" about it. Or how the Fox News Right "plotzes" about Obama's Big Government spending, but stood stalwartly by Bush and voted him back into office while he was setting records for deficit spending.
The hypocrisy of the Republican and Democratic parties knows no bounds.
Oldefarte| 9.2.09 @ 11:38AM
We all should know what the probable end result of these Obama/Holder policies will be [for the US], and they/Democrats WILL BE held [solely and collectively] to blame by the American people/voters !!!!!!!
S.L. Toddard| 9.2.09 @ 11:40AM
"We all should know what the probable end result of these Obama/Holder policies will be [for the US], and they/Democrats WILL BE held [solely and collectively] to blame by the American people/voters !!!!!!!"
You'd think so, but when George W. Bush lost three thousand American lives during his watch on 9/11, the Fox News Right blamed... Clinton! I know I know - sounds crazy but it's true. So don't count on blame being placed where it belongs.
Bohred| 9.2.09 @ 11:56AM
I love this. It doesn't matter what the facts are, or were. Obama now owns the CIA and America's safety. If an agent is killed, or the US is attacked, he and the dems will take the blame. So it's Bush's fault that 911 happened. GREAT!! We can't vote for him again. Now it will be Obama's turn.
S.L. Toddard| 9.2.09 @ 12:20PM
"Obama now owns the CIA and America's safety. If an agent is killed, or the US is attacked, he and the dems will take the blame. So it's Bush's fault that 911 happened. GREAT!! We can't vote for him again. Now it will be Obama's turn."
Precisely! If you do not hold Bush responsible for the failures on his watch, you cannot legitimately hold Obama responsible for the failures on *his*. BUT if you *do* hold Bush responsible for the failures on his watch you *can* legitimately hold Obama responsible for those that arise on his. For instance, Bush is responsible for the deaths of four thousand American solders that he wasted in Iraq - that blood is on HIS hands. And though Obama inherited from Bush the nation-building crusade in Afghanistan, he *actively chose* to continue it - he clearly demonstrated that he values nation-building over the lives of our soldiers and the security of our country - and so the when we leave Afghanistan in failure that failure will be on *his* hands as well, as will the blood of every American soldier wasted there on his watch.
The point being that you cannot change your standards so they produce the outcome you want.
Bohred| 9.2.09 @ 12:32PM
Why not? You do.
The point is that everything you said doesn't matter. The American people are going to blame Obama. They never blamed Bush for 911.
S.L. Toddard| 9.2.09 @ 1:10PM
"The American people are going to blame Obama. They never blamed Bush for 911."
You may be on to something. The Left was not crass or self-serving enough to start pointing fingers in the wake of a national tragedy, or to immediately exploit it to score political points. They selflessly stood with their president even though he was elected by the opposition. I think, Bohred, that you could be correct that the Fox News Right would show no such love of country but would instead start classlessly playing the "blame game".
I'm not saying you're right, but if you are it will say something terrible and profoundly unpatriotic about the Fox News Right. I think we both agree, at least, on that.
Pingback| 9.2.09 @ 1:39PM
DOJ’s CIA Interrogation of Terrorists Investigation Goes Against Obama’s Promise to links to this page. Here’s an excerpt:
Pingback| 9.2.09 @ 1:41PM
Obama’s “Disney World,” Where Radical Terrorists’ Dreams Come True: Cheney Says Keep links to this page. Here’s an excerpt:
Big J| 9.2.09 @ 1:49PM
What does it matter, anyway, toddard? While I know it's difficult for you to contain your utter glee and childish joy at the thought that those eeeeeevil Boooooosh administration officials are going to get theirs, what's the point?
Obama lied (twice on this subject alone), and Americans are going to die. That's the bottom line. In the name of boosting our "moral standing with the world"? Let's see how that's workin' for us so far:
North Korea - Shooting missiles whether we like it or not
Russia - Basically punked Obama out, causing the cancellation of protective missile defense systems for our allies (I think he said something to the effect of "Pretty please, will you do something about Iran?")
Iran - Still hell-bent on the proliferation of nuclear weapons
Ireland - Still releases the "Pan-Am bomber", in spite of Hillary's pleas not to
I could go on and on, but what's the point? Huh, toddard? What's the freakin point?!
The bottom line is this: these investigations will do nothing to advance the defense of this country, nor will it make others play nice with us. In fact, quite the opposite. I really wish you "Neolibs" would get that through your thick skulls.
It's just a damn shame that you guys wake up and smell the coffee a day late and a dollar short.
Then it's "Ah, but we meant well".
Obama's gonna do what he's gonna do. We have figured this out. Unfortunately, he is seriously damaging the security of this nation (which, I might add, he SWORE to protect).
The saddest part of all is that he prefers political gain to protecting this country.
By the way, I'll take my five bucks back. You didn't spend it wisely.
Internet Trolls Unite!| 9.2.09 @ 1:53PM
Sh*tLib Toad,
*yawn*
I'll raise you a ----double---- *yawn* *yawn*.
Keith Olberman called----he wants his shoes ready for the next show and you left his dog's crap in the neighbors yard again. I think it's a Shitzu.
REt_Vet| 9.2.09 @ 2:08PM
Mr Stoddard to your point of investigation, it was accomplished already. One was prosecuted and jailed. TO re-hash and drag these folks thru the mud is political only. Open your eyes as to liberties these 'progressives' are trying to take from you and ME!
S.L. Toddard| 9.2.09 @ 2:25PM
“What does it matter, anyway, toddard?”
I should think it matters a great deal whether we are a nation of Laws or not.
“While I know it's difficult for you to contain your utter glee and childish joy at the thought that those eeeeeevil Boooooosh administration officials are going to get theirs, what's the point?”
I’m not sure what you’re asking. What’s the point of having laws? You don’t know that already?
“Obama lied (twice on this subject alone), and Americans are going to die. That's the bottom line.”
I’m sorry, but it’s hard to take seriously a proponent of the Iraq War all of a sudden pretending to care about Americans dying.
“In the name of boosting our "moral standing with the world"?”
No.
“I could go on and on, but what's the point? Huh, toddard? What's the freakin point?!”
If you don’t know what point you’re trying to make, how could I? Your post is a confused mess, and a long part of it dealing with your dissatisfaction that the United States does not dictate the internal policies of every nation on the globe. Are you perhaps unaware that we are a Republic? That our president is not an Emperor, and that the rest of the Earth does not consist solely of our overseas dominions?
“The bottom line is this: these investigations will do nothing to advance the defense of this country, nor will it make others play nice with us.”
They will also not cause the Orioles to win the world series, lead to a Led Zeppelin reunion or bring Norman Fell back to prime time television. But since none of these things are the object of applying our own laws it is hardly relevant.
“Obama's gonna do what he's gonna do. We have figured this out. Unfortunately, he is seriously damaging the security of this nation (which, I might add, he SWORE to protect).”
He also swore to protect and defend the Constitution of the United States, and to faithfully execute its laws. Those laws and that Constitution *compel* investigations of torture allegations. You either stand with investigations, or *against* the Constitution that our President and soldiers are sworn to defend.
Big J| 9.2.09 @ 2:55PM
Cutting off your nose to spite your face. That's the best way I can describe it.
Others have pointed out that these investigations have already been done.
Others (and I) have pointed out specifically how this will damage our country and our national security.
The facts have been laid before you, yet all you can do is post your pseudo-intellectual B.S. dripping with sarcasm.
You, sir are a fool.
I think you're the only one in the room that doesn't know it.
Sucks to be you, man.
S.L. Toddard| 9.2.09 @ 3:16PM
"Others have pointed out that these investigations have already been done."
Yes, they have, but the assertion is false. There has been no criminal investigation/prosecution vis a vis the relevent alleged torture in the recent CIA report or otherwise.
"Others (and I) have pointed out specifically how this will damage our country and our national security"
No, you haven't. You have just said it will, which is immaterial. Torture is alleged to have taken place, our laws *compel* investigations, ergo to fail to investigate and prosecute is to violate the law.
There is no choice, regardless of whatever nightmare scenarios you concoct to justify lawlessness and barbarity. You either stand with investigations, or *against* the Constitution that our President and soldiers are sworn to defend.
S.L. Toddard| 9.2.09 @ 3:22PM
"Cutting off your nose to spite your face. That's the best way I can describe it."
A fitting image coming from someone advocating *torture*. From someone who rejects the most basic fundamental tenets of civilization.
It's funny, it it not, that the same people who deride "Islamofascists" for their "medieval ideology" passionately advocate barbarism, defend torture, and promote lawlessness? That the self-same phony lovers of Liberty, who parade around at their Tea Parties quoting the Constitution immediately throw their counterfeit reverence for such things out the window when they are no longer politically convenient?
jd| 9.2.09 @ 3:23PM
Toddard,
It's been mentioned countless times before, THE JUSTICE DEPT INVESTIGATED THE TORTURE ALLEGATIONS ALREADY. THIS IS PURE POLITICS. Looks like YOU don't like the outcome of that. L - O - S - E - R.
S.L. Toddard| 9.2.09 @ 3:33PM
"THE JUSTICE DEPT INVESTIGATED THE TORTURE ALLEGATIONS ALREADY"
Cite the criminal investigation/prosecution of the relevant torture allegations. When did these criminal investigations take place, whom was prosecuted?
Helen Donnelly| 9.2.09 @ 3:35PM
Why are you on this website all the time? You obviously are not of the same mind set as most of the readers and commenters are. And you must spend a great deal of time coming up with the diatribes you post. Don't you have anything better to do? Just askin....
S.L. Toddard| 9.2.09 @ 3:44PM
"Why are you on this website all the time?"
Because it purports to be a "conservative" website, so there should be at least one of us represented here.
Should AmSpec begin more truthfully advertising itself as Republican Party Loyalist magazine, or as a Megaphone For The Neoconservative GOP Establishment then I would leave.
Tim| 9.2.09 @ 3:48PM
How is Obama going to take away my rights after he has put all the cops and CIA agents in jail? After military cuts? He's not thinking this coup thing through.
S.L. Toddard| 9.2.09 @ 4:01PM
"How is Obama going to take away my rights after he has put all the cops and CIA agents in jail?"
At least someone here recognizes that the main - really the only - threat to our Liberty comes from our own gov't. This is the reason why it is so profoundly imporant they be held accountable when they break our most serious laws.
Ken (Old Texican)| 9.2.09 @ 4:05PM
Toddard, you are a liar and a pimp! Worse, you are moveon org liar and pimp.
Worst, you voted for the Obamacommunist.
I'm sorry for you.
Pingback| 9.2.09 @ 4:19PM
The American Spectator : Obama and the CIA: Making the Terrorists' Day | Crime Lawyer links to this page. Here’s an excerpt:
Internet Trolls Unite!| 9.2.09 @ 4:20PM
With his decision, Holder is second-guessing career prosecutors — the career prosecutors from the Eastern District of Virginia who reviewed the allegations in the CIA IG report and determined that there was nothing to warrant a criminal prosecution. Now Holder, a political appointee, is overruling their decisions, and in so doing questioning their judgment and impartiality.
This is wrong. So says Leon Panetta. And now, apparently, Janet Napolitano as well. _______________________
Hey S.L--(Sh*t for Looks)-----couldn't be any more plainer.
Ever heard of Google or do you expect Conservatives to do all the work for you as well as pay all the taxes in the U.S.
Crawl back into Markos' anus already---
...and make sure Olberman's dog crap is cleaned off the neighbors yard.
Richard Baker| 9.2.09 @ 4:31PM
Never thought I'd have any sympathy for Panetta but the scales have fallen from his eyes and now he can see. Very different point of view from Langley.
L. Ross| 9.2.09 @ 4:34PM
S. L. Vegetard:
I know we are going around in circles on this one. I know you vehemently disagree with me, as I disagree with you, but to present the other side again.
1. The foreign combatants are NOT entitled to Geneva Convention protections. (Never signed the document, don't carry weapons openly, don't wear a uniform, etc.) The fact that we are largely providing them with Geneva Convention protections actually weakens our position, e.g. "If they treat our prisoners in accordance with the Geneva Convention while we incinerate their prisoners and hang them from bridges, why should we stop hanging their burned corpses from bridges?"
As an Air Force flyer, I have been subjected to "enhanced interrogation techniques" very similar to the worst of what you have described. I and my entire class experienced stage 3 hypothermia (uncotrollable shivers, slurred speach, reduced motor function). I'm fine now, and I was fine 20 minutes later. My opinion, if you don't need to see a doctor, it ain't torture.
Finally, the laws which we pass are here to protect our society. Our civilization is more important than the words we put onto paper whose goal is to protect our civilization. If we are confronted with a barbarism so vast that it is beyond the scope of our civilization, we might need to bend our laws in accordance with reality.
What boggles everyone here is that you hold the value of words on a sheet of paper higher than the lives of Americans, or our very western culture itself. Vegetard, you put the cart before the horse.
L. Ross| 9.2.09 @ 4:38PM
S. L. Vegetard:
I know you don't believe that muslims are any different from Christians. Here is a little history on the subject.
A long, long time ago, there was this man named Mohammed. He lived in the Arabian Peninsula. He claims to have spoken to the archangel Gabriel, and to have received visions from God himself. He started out as a typical religious quack, trying to bring people along to follow his “new revelation”. He was not very successful.
Religious tolerance wasn’t big 1400 years ago, and he was driven out of Mecca into Medina. In Medina he changed tactics, amassed an army of thugs, explained to them his rules for salvation, and established a death cult, full of the glories of the afterlife, the best of those glories being available to men who die on the battlefield. This gave him an army of thugs with no fear of dying. Using this army, he promptly lay siege to Mecca, and from there launched his campaign for world domination. Quoting Mohammed here, “I have been ordered by God to fight with people till they bear testimony to the fact that there is no God but Allah and that Mohammed is his messenger, and that they establish prayer and pay Zakat (money). If they do it, their blood and their property are safe from me". Using really small words that even Vegetard can understand, he claims that God ordered him to fight until everyone acknowledged his status at the final prophet of God and converted to his religion, or they paid an onerous tax to him, recognizing the superiority of islam.
During the last 10 years of his life, Mohammed terrorized the Arabian Peninsula, conquering the area through military action, not through the work of missionaries. This is a tragedy.
You see, Vegetard, Mohammed is held up as the finest example of what a man can strive for, and what this man strove for was war, riches, pedophilia (see Aisha, his six year old wife), and a death cult.
Now, Vegetard, I doubt that you read up much on history, or what you have learned is the crap that they teach in our modern schools, so I doubt you know anything. Let’s start with the Crusades. For no good reason, the Crusades are regarded as an unprovoked attack on peace loving muslims. What they actually were doing was a deep counterstrike, to halt the advance of muslims against the European home front, and bring those fighters back to muslim lands. Kind of like what we have done in Iraq.
Bringing you more up to date, the war in Kosovo was all about the mass immigration of muslim Albanians into the Kosovo region, where they began killing and terrorizing the Christian Serbs. That is a war we took the wrong side on. Israel is a prime example of a bloodlust by surrounding muslims to generate a second Holocaust. Chechnya is another islamic jihad. Ditto for the fighting in Sudan. Or the fighting over Kashmir between Pakistan and India. Let’s not forget the persecution of Christians in Uganda by muslims. Or the persecution of Christians in Nigeria. I can do this all day.
The simple fact of the matter, Vegetard, is that muslims divide the globe into two houses. Dar-al islam and Dar-al Harb. The House of islam, and the House of War. GWB was far from the first to say “You are either for us or you are for the terrorists”. Muslims have seen the world in that light since their founding.
The U.S. State Department lists major terrorist attacks against the West and others by muslims in recent years:
Attack on the Munich Airport, February 10, 1970: Three terrorists attacked El Al passengers in a bus at the Munich Airport with guns and grenades. One passenger was killed and 11 were injured. All three terrorists were captured by airport police. The Action Organization for the Liberation of Palestine and the Popular Democratic Front for the Liberation of Palestine claimed responsibility for the attack.
Munich Olympic Massacre, September 5, 1972: Eight Palestinian "Black September" terrorists seized eleven Israeli athletes in the Olympic Village in Munich, West Germany. In a bungled rescue attempt by West German authorities, nine of the hostages and five terrorists were killed.
Ambassador to Sudan Assassinated, March 2, 1973: U.S. Ambassador to Sudan Cleo A. Noel and other diplomats were assassinated at the Saudi Arabian Embassy in Khartoum by members of the Black September organization.
Attack and Hijacking at the Rome Airport, December 17, 1973: Five terrorists pulled weapons from their luggage in the terminal lounge at the Rome airport, killing two persons. They then attacked a Pan American 707 bound for Beirut and Tehran, destroying it with incendiary grenades and killing 29 persons, including 4 senior Moroccan officials and 14 American employees of ARAMCO. They then herded 5 Italian hostages into a Lufthansa airliner and killed an Italian customs agent as he tried to escape, after which they forced the pilot to fly to Beirut. After Lebanese authorities refused to let the plane land, it landed in Athens, where the terrorists demanded the release of 2 Arab terrorists. In order to make Greek authorities comply with their demands, the terrorists killed a hostage and threw his body onto the tarmac. The plane then flew to Damascus, where it stopped for two hours to obtain fuel and food. It then flew to Kuwait, where the terrorists released their hostages in return for passage to an unknown destination. The Palestine Liberation Organization disavowed the attack, and no group claimed responsibility for it.
Entebbe Hostage Crisis, June 27, 1976: Members of the Baader-Meinhof Group and the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine (PFLP) seized an Air France airliner and its 258 passengers. They forced the plane to land in Uganda. On July 3 Israeli commandos successfully rescued the passengers.
Ambassador to Afghanistan Assassinated, February 14, 1979: Four Afghans kidnapped U.S. Ambassador Adolph Dubs in Kabul and demanded the release of various "religious figures." Dubs was killed, along with four alleged terrorists, when Afghan police stormed the hotel room where he was being held.
Iran Hostage Crisis, November 4, 1979: After President Carter agreed to admit the Shah of Iran into the US, Iranian radicals seized the U.S. Embassy in Tehran and took 66 American diplomats hostage. Thirteen hostages were soon released, but the remaining 53 were held until their release on January 20, 1981.
Grand Mosque Seizure, November 20, 1979: 200 Islamic terrorists seized the Grand Mosque in Mecca, Saudi Arabia, taking hundreds of pilgrims hostage. Saudi and French security forces retook the shrine after an intense battle in which some 250 people were killed and 600 wounded.
Assassination of Egyptian President, October 6, 1981: Soldiers who were secretly members of the Takfir Wal-Hajira sect attacked and killed Egyptian President Anwar Sadat during a troop review.
Bombing of U.S. Embassy in Beirut, April 18, 1983: Sixty-three people, including the CIA’s Middle East director, were killed and 120 were injured in a 400-pound suicide truck-bomb attack on the U.S. Embassy in Beirut, Lebanon. The Islamic Jihad claimed responsibility.
Bombing of Marine Barracks, Beirut, October 23, 1983: Simultaneous suicide truck-bomb attacks were made on American and French compounds in Beirut, Lebanon. A 12,000-pound bomb destroyed the U.S. compound, killing 242 Americans, while 58 French troops were killed when a 400-pound device destroyed a French base. Islamic Jihad claimed responsibility.
TWA Hijacking, June 14, 1985: A Trans-World Airlines flight was hijacked en route to Rome from Athens by two Lebanese Hizballah terrorists and forced to fly to Beirut. The eight crew members and 145 passengers were held for seventeen days, during which one American hostage, a U.S. Navy sailor, was murdered. After being flown twice to Algiers, the aircraft was returned to Beirut after Israel released 435 Lebanese and Palestinian prisoners.
Achille Lauro Hijacking, October 7, 1985: Four Palestinian Liberation Front terrorists seized the Italian cruise liner in the eastern Mediterranean Sea, taking more than 700 hostages. One U.S. passenger was murdered before the Egyptian government offered the terrorists safe haven in return for the hostages’ freedom.
Egyptian Airliner Hijacking, November 23, 1985: An EgyptAir airplane bound from Athens to Malta and carrying several U.S. citizens was hijacked by the Abu Nidal Group.
Airport Attacks in Rome and Vienna, December 27, 1985: Four gunmen belonging to the Abu Nidal Organization attacked the El Al and Trans World Airlines ticket counters at Rome’s Leonardo da Vinci Airport with grenades and automatic rifles. Thirteen persons were killed and 75 were wounded before Italian police and Israeli security guards killed three of the gunmen and captured the fourth. Three more Abu Nidal gunmen attacked the El Al ticket counter at Vienna’s Schwechat Airport, killing three persons and wounding 30. Austrian police killed one of the gunmen and captured the others.
Aircraft Bombing in Greece, March 30, 1986: A Palestinian splinter group detonated a bomb as TWA Flight 840 approached Athens airport, killing four U.S. citizens.
Naples USO Attack, April 14, 1988: The Organization of Jihad Brigades exploded a car-bomb outside a USO Club in Naples, Italy, killing one U.S. sailor.
Pan Am 103 Bombing, December 21, 1988: Pan American Airlines Flight 103 was blown up over Lockerbie, Scotland, by a bomb believed to have been placed on the aircraft by Libyan terrorists in Frankfurt, West Germany. All 259 people on board were killed.
Bombing of UTA Flight 772, September 19, 1989: A bomb explosion destroyed UTA Flight 772 over the Sahara Desert in southern Niger during a flight from Brazzaville to Paris. All 170 persons aboard were killed. Six Libyans were later found guilty in absentia and sentenced to life imprisonment.
Attempted Iraqi Attacks on U.S. Posts, January 18-19, 1991: Iraqi agents planted bombs at the U.S. Ambassador to Indonesia’s home residence and at the USIS library in Manila.
Bombing of the Israeli Embassy in Argentina, March 17, 1992: Hizballah claimed responsibility for a blast that leveled the Israeli Embassy in Buenos Aires, Argentina, causing the deaths of 29 and wounding 242.
World Trade Center Bombing, February 26, 1993: The World Trade Center in New York City was badly damaged when a car bomb planted by Islamic terrorists exploded in an underground garage. The bomb left 6 people dead and 1,000 injured. The men carrying out the attack were followers of Umar Abd al-Rahman, an Egyptian cleric who preached in the New York City area.
Air France Hijacking, December 24, 1994: Members of the Armed Islamic Group seized an Air France Flight to Algeria. The four terrorists were killed during a rescue effort.
Kashmiri Hostage-taking, July 4, 1995: In India six foreigners, including two U.S. citizens, were taken hostage by Al-Faran, a Kashmiri separatist group. One non-U.S. hostage was later found beheaded.
Jerusalem Bus Attack, August 21, 1995: HAMAS claimed responsibility for the detonation of a bomb that killed 6 and injured over 100 persons, including several U.S. citizens.
Saudi Military Installation Attack, November 13, 1995: The Islamic Movement of Change planted a bomb in a Riyadh military compound that killed one U.S. citizen, several foreign national employees of the U.S. government, and over 40 others.
Egyptian Embassy Attack, November 19, 1995: A suicide bomber drove a vehicle into the Egyptian Embassy compound in Islamabad, Pakistan, killing at least 16 and injuring 60 persons. Three militant Islamic groups claimed responsibility.
HAMAS Bus Attack, February 26, 1996: In Jerusalem, a suicide bomber blew up a bus, killing 26 persons, including three U.S. citizens, and injuring some 80 persons, including three other US citizens.
Dizengoff Center Bombing, March 4, 1996: HAMAS and the Palestine Islamic Jihad (PIJ) both claimed responsibility for a bombing outside of Tel Aviv's largest shopping mall that killed 20 persons and injured 75 others, including 2 U.S. citizens.
West Bank Attack, May 13, 1996: Arab gunmen opened fire on a bus and a group of Yeshiva students near the Bet El settlement, killing a dual U.S./Israeli citizen and wounding three Israelis. No one claimed responsibility for the attack, but HAMAS was suspected.
Zekharya Attack, June 9, 1996: Unidentified gunmen opened fire on a car near Zekharya, killing a dual U.S./Israeli citizen and an Israeli. The Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine (PFLP) was suspected.
Khobar Towers Bombing, June 25, 1996: A fuel truck carrying a bomb exploded outside the US military's Khobar Towers housing facility in Dhahran, killing 19 U.S. military personnel and wounding 515 persons, including 240 U.S. personnel. Several groups claimed responsibility for the attack.
Paris Subway Explosion, December 3, 1996: A bomb exploded aboard a Paris subway train as it arrived at the Port Royal station, killing two French nationals, a Moroccan, and a Canadian, and injuring 86 persons. Among those injured were one U.S. citizen and a Canadian. No one claimed responsibility for the attack, but Algerian extremists are suspected.
Empire State Building Sniper Attack, February 23, 1997: A Palestinian gunman opened fire on tourists at an observation deck atop the Empire State Building in New York City, killing a Danish national and wounding visitors from the United States, Argentina, Switzerland, and France before turning the gun on himself. A handwritten note carried by the gunman claimed this was a punishment attack against the "enemies of Palestine."
Israeli Shopping Mall Bombing, September 4, 1997: Three suicide bombers of HAMAS detonated bombs in the Ben Yehuda shopping mall in Jerusalem, killing eight persons, including the bombers, and wounding nearly 200 others. A dual U.S./Israeli citizen was among the dead, and 7 U.S. citizens were wounded.
Yemeni Kidnappings, October 30, 1997: Al-Sha'if tribesmen kidnapped a U.S. businessman near Sanaa. The tribesmen sought the release of two fellow tribesmen who were arrested on smuggling charges and several public works projects they claim the government promised them. They released the hostage on November 27.
Murder of U.S. Businessmen in Pakistan, November 12, 1997: Two unidentified gunmen shot to death four U.S. auditors from Union Texas Petroleum Corporation and their Pakistani driver after they drove away from the Sheraton Hotel in Karachi. The Islami Inqilabi Council, or Islamic Revolutionary Council, claimed responsibility in a call to the U.S. Consulate in Karachi. In a letter to Pakistani newspapers, the Aimal Khufia Action Committee also claimed responsibility.
Tourist Killings in Egypt, November 17, 1997: Al-Gama'at al-Islamiyya (IG) gunmen shot and killed 58 tourists and four Egyptians and wounded 26 others at the Hatshepsut Temple in the Valley of the Kings near Luxor. Thirty-four Swiss, eight Japanese, five Germans, four Britons, one French, one Colombian, a dual Bulgarian/British citizen, and four unidentified persons were among the dead. Twelve Swiss, two Japanese, two Germans, one French, and nine Egyptians were among the wounded.
U.S. Embassy Bombings in East Africa, August 7, 1998: A bomb exploded at the rear entrance of the U.S. Embassy in Nairobi, Kenya, killing 12 U.S. citizens, 32 Foreign Service Nationals (FSNs), and 247 Kenyan citizens. Approximately 5,000 Kenyans, 6 U.S. citizens, and 13 FSNs were injured. The U.S. Embassy building sustained extensive structural damage. Almost simultaneously, a bomb detonated outside the U.S. Embassy in Dar es Salaam, Tanzania, killing 7 FSNs and 3 Tanzanian citizens, and injuring 1 U.S. citizen and 76 Tanzanians. The explosion caused major structural damage to the U.S. Embassy facility. The U.S. Government held Usama Bin Laden responsible.
Kidnappings in Kyrgyzstan, August 12, 2000: In the Kara-Su Valley, the Islamic Movement of Uzbekistan took four U.S. citizens hostage. The Americans escaped on August 12.
Attack on U.S.S. Cole, October 12, 2000: In Aden, Yemen, a small dingy carrying explosives rammed the destroyer U.S.S. Cole, killing 17 sailors and injuring 39 others. Supporters of Usama Bin Laden were suspected.
Manila Bombing, December 30, 2000: A bomb exploded in a plaza across the street from the U.S. Embassy in Manila, injuring nine persons. The Moro Islamic Liberation Front was likely responsible.
Srinagar Airport Attack and Assassination Attempt, January 17, 2001: In India, six members of the Lashkar-e-Tayyba militant group were killed when they attempted to seize a local airport. Members of Hizbul Mujaheddin fired two rifle grenades at Farooq Abdullah, Chief Minister for Jammu and Kashmir. Two persons were wounded in the unsuccessful assassination attempt.
Suicide Bombing in Israel, March 4, 2001: A suicide bomb attack in Netanya killed 3 persons and wounded 65. HAMAS later claimed responsibility.
Airliner Hijacking in Istanbul, March 15, 2001: Three Chechens hijacked a Russian airliner during a flight from Istanbul to Moscow and forced it to fly to Medina, Saudi Arabia. The plane carried 162 passengers and a crew of 12. After a 22-hour siege during which more than 40 passengers were released, Saudi security forces stormed the plane, killing a hijacker, a passenger, and a flight attendant.
Bus Stop Bombing, April 22, 2001: A member of HAMAS detonated a bomb he was carrying near a bus stop in Kfar Siva, Israel, killing one person and injuring 60.
Philippines Hostage Incident, May 27, 2001: Muslim Abu Sayyaf guerrillas seized 13 tourists and 3 staff members at a resort on Palawan Island and took their captives to Basilan Island. The captives included three U.S. citizens: Guellermo Sobero and missionaries Martin and Gracia Burnham. Philippine troops fought a series of battles with the guerrillas between June 1 and June 3 during which 9 hostages escaped and two were found dead. The guerrillas took additional hostages when they seized the hospital in the town of Lamitan. On June 12, Abu Sayyaf spokesman Abu Sabaya claimed that Sobero had been killed and beheaded; his body was found in October. The Burnhams remained in captivity until June 2002.
Tel-Aviv Nightclub Bombing, June 1, 2001: HAMAS claimed responsibility for the suicide bombing of a popular Israeli nightclub that caused over 140 casualties.
HAMAS Restaurant Bombing, August 9, 2001: A HAMAS-planted bomb detonated in a Jerusalem pizza restaurant, killing 15 people and wounding more than 90. The Israeli response included occupation of Orient House, the Palestine Liberation Organization’s political headquarters in East Jerusalem.
Suicide Bombing in Israel, September 9, 2001: The first suicide bombing carried out by an Israeli Arab killed 3 persons in Nahariya. HAMAS claimed responsibility.
Death of "the Lion of the Panjshir", September 9, 2001: Two suicide bombers fatally wounded Ahmed Shah Massoud, a leader of Afghanistan’s Northern Alliance, which had opposed both the Soviet occupation and the post-Soviet Taliban government. The bombers posed as journalists and were apparently linked to al-Qaida. The Northern Alliance did not confirm Massoud’s death until September 15.
Terrorist Attacks on U.S. Homeland, September 11, 2001: Two hijacked airliners crashed into the twin towers of the World Trade Center. Soon thereafter, the Pentagon was struck by a third hijacked plane. A fourth hijacked plane, suspected to be bound for a high-profile target in Washington, crashed into a field in southern Pennsylvania. The attacks killed 3,025 U.S. citizens and other nationals. President Bush and Cabinet officials indicated that Usama Bin Laden was the prime suspect and that they considered the United States in a state of war with international terrorism. In the aftermath of the attacks, the United States formed the Global Coalition Against Terrorism.
Attack on the Jammu and Kashmir Legislature, October 1, 2001: After a suicide car bomber forced the gate of the state legislature in Srinagar, two gunmen entered the building and held off police for seven hours before being killed. Forty persons died in the incident. Jaish-e-Muhammad claimed responsibility.
Assassination of an Israeli Cabinet Minister, October 17, 2001: A Palestinian gunman assassinated Israeli Minister of Tourism Rehavam Zeevi in the Jerusalem hotel where he was staying. The Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine (PFLP) claimed to have avenged the death of PFLP Mustafa Zubari.
Attack on a Church in Pakistan, October 28, 2001: Six masked gunmen shot up a church in Bahawalpur, Pakistan, killing 15 Pakistani Christians. No group claimed responsibility, although various militant Muslim groups were suspected.
Suicide Bombings in Jerusalem, December 1, 2001: Two suicide bombers attacked a Jerusalem shopping mall, killing 10 persons and wounding 170.
Suicide Bombing in Haifa, December 2, 2001: A suicide bomb attack aboard a bus in Haifa, Israel, killed 15 persons and wounded 40. HAMAS claimed responsibility for both this attack and those on December 1 to avenge the death of a HAMAS member at the hands of Israeli forces a week earlier.
Attack on the Indian Parliament, December 13, 2001: Five gunmen attacked the Indian Parliament in New Delhi shortly after it had adjourned. Before security forces killed them, the attackers killed 6 security personnel and a gardener. Indian officials blamed Lashkar-e-Tayyiba and demanded that Pakistan crack down on it and on other Muslim separatist groups in Kashmir.
2002
Ambush on the West Bank, January 15, 2002: Palestinian militants fired on a vehicle in Beit Sahur, killing one passenger and wounding the other. The dead passenger claimed U.S. and Israeli citizenship. The al-Aqsa Martyrs’ Battalion claimed responsibility.
Shooting Incident in Israel, January 17, 2002: A Palestinian gunman killed 6 persons and wounded 25 in Hadera, Israel, before being killed by Israeli police. The al-Aqsa Martyrs’ Brigades claimed responsibility as revenge for Israel’s killing of a leading member of the group.
Drive-By Shooting at a U.S. Consulate, January 22, 2002: Armed militants on motorcycles fired on the U.S. Consulate in Calcutta, India, killing 5 Indian security personnel and wounding 13 others. The Harakat ul-Jihad-I-Islami and the Asif Raza Commandoes claimed responsibility. Indian police later killed two suspects, one of whom confessed to belonging to Lashkar-e-Tayyiba as he died.
Bomb Explosion in Kashmir, January 22, 2002: A bomb exploded in a crowded retail district in Jammu, Kashmir, killing one person and injuring nine. No group claimed responsibility.
Kidnapping of Daniel Pearl, January 23, 2002: Armed militants kidnapped Wall Street Journal reporter Daniel Pearl in Karachi, Pakistan. Pakistani authorities received a videotape on February 20 depicting Pearl’s murder. His grave was found near Karachi on May 16. Pakistani authorities arrested four suspects. Ringleader Ahmad Omar Saeed Sheikh claimed to have organized Pearl’s kidnapping to protest Pakistan’s subservience to the United States, and had belonged to Jaish-e-Muhammad, an Islamic separatist group in Kashmir. All four suspects were convicted on July 15. Saeed Sheikh was sentenced to death, the others to life imprisonment.
Suicide Bombing in Jerusalem, January 27, 2002: A suicide bomb attack in Jerusalem killed one other person and wounded 100. The incident was the first suicide bombing made by a Palestinian woman.
Suicide Bombing in the West Bank, February 16, 2002: A suicide bombing in an outdoor food court in Karmei Shomron killed 4 persons and wounded 27. Two of the dead and two of the wounded were U.S. citizens. The Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine (PFLP) claimed responsibility.
Suicide Bombing in the West Bank, March 7, 2002: A suicide bombing in a supermarket in the settlement of Ariel wounded 10 persons, one of whom was a U.S. citizen. The PFLP claimed responsibility.
Suicide Bombing in Jerusalem, March 9, 2002: A suicide bombing in a Jerusalem restaurant killed 11 persons and wounded 52, one of whom was a U.S. citizen. The al-Aqsa Martyrs’ Brigades claimed responsibility.
Armed attack on Kashmir, April 10, 2002: Armed militants attacked a residence in Gando, Kashmir, killing five persons and wounding four. No group claimed responsibility.
Synagogue Bombing in Tunisia, April 11, 2002: A suicide bomber detonated a truck loaded with propane gas outside a historic synagogue in Djerba, Tunisia. The 16 dead included 11 Germans, one French citizen, and three Tunisians. Twenty-six German tourists were injured. The Islamic Army for the Liberation of the Holy Sites claimed responsibility.
Suicide Bombing in Jerusalem, April 12, 2002: A female suicide bomber killed 6 persons in Jerusalem and wounded 90 others. The al-Aqsa Martyrs’ Brigades claimed responsibility.
Car Bombing in Pakistan, May 8, 2002: A car bomb exploded near a Pakistani navy shuttle bus in Karachi, killing 12 persons and wounding 19. Eleven of the dead and 11 of the wounded were French nationals. Al-Qaida was suspected of the attack.
Parade Bombing in Russia, May 9, 2002: A remotely-controlled bomb exploded near a May Day parade in Kaspiisk, Dagestan, killing 42 persons and wounding 150. Fourteen of the dead and 50 of the wounded were soldiers. Islamists linked to al-Qaida were suspected.
Attack on a Bus in India, May 14, 2002: Militants fired on a passenger bus in Kaluchak, Jammu, killing 7 persons. They then entered a military housing complex and killed 3 soldiers and 7 military dependents before they were killed. The al-Mansooran and Jamiat ul-Mujahedin claimed responsibility.
Bomb Attacks in Kashmir, May 17, 2002: A bomb explosion near a civil secretariat area in Srinagar, Kashmir, wounded 6 persons. In Jammu, a bomb exploded at a fire services headquarters, killing two and wounding 16. No group claimed responsibility for either attack.
Hostage Rescue Attempt in the Philippines, June 7, 2002: Philippine Army troops attacked Abu Sayyaf terrorists on Mindanao Island in an attempt to rescue U.S. citizen Martin Burnham and his wife Gracia, who had been kidnapped more than a year ago. Burnham was killed but his wife, though wounded, was freed. A Filipino hostage was killed, as were four of the guerrillas. Seven soldiers were wounded.
Car Bombing in Pakistan, June 14, 2002: A car bomb exploded near the U.S. Consulate and the Marriott Hotel in Karachi, Pakistan. Eleven persons were killed and 51 were sounded, including one U.S. and one Japanese citizen. Al Qaida and al-Qanin were suspected.
Suicide Bombing in Jerusalem, June 19, 2002: A suicide bombing at a bus stop in Jerusalem killed 6 persons and wounded 43, including 2 U.S. citizens. The al-Aqsa Martyrs’ Brigades claimed responsibility.
Suicide Bombing in Tel Aviv, July 17, 2002: Two suicide bombers attacked the old bus station in Tel Aviv, Israel, killing 5 persons and wounding 38. The dead included one Romanian and two Chinese; another Romanian was wounded. The Islamic Jihad claimed responsibility.
Bombing at the Hebrew University, July 31, 2002: A bomb hidden in a bag in the Frank Sinatra International Student Center of Jerusalem’s Hebrew University killed 9 persons and wounded 87. The dead included 5 U.S. citizens and 4 Israelis. The wounded included 4 U.S. citizens, 2 Japanese, and 3 South Koreans. The Islamic Resistance Movement (HAMAS) claimed responsibility.
Suicide Bombing in Israel, August 4, 2002: A suicide bomb attack on a bus in Safed, Israel, killed 9 persons and wounded 50. Two of the dead were Philippine citizens; many of the wounded were soldiers returning from leave. HAMAS claimed responsibility.
Attack on a School in Pakistan, August 5, 2002: Gunmen attacked a Christian school attended by children of missionaries from around the world. Six persons (two security guards, a cook, a carpenter, a receptionist, and a private citizen) were killed and a Philippine citizen was wounded. A group called al-Intigami al-Pakistani claimed responsibility.
Attack on Pilgrims in Kashmir, August 6, 2002: Armed militants attacked a group of Hindu pilgrims with guns and grenades in Pahalgam, Kashmir. Nine persons were killed and 32 were wounded. The Lashkar-e-Tayyiba claimed responsibility.
Assassination in Kashmir, September 11, 2002: Gunmen killed Kashmir’s Law Minister Mushtaq Ahmed Lone and six security guards in Tikipora. Lashkar-e-Tayyiga, Jamiat ul-Mujahedin, and Hizb ul-Mujahedin all claimed responsibility. Other militants attacked the residence of the Minister of Tourism with grenades, injuring four persons. No group claimed responsibility.
Ambush on the West Bank, September 18, 2002: Gunmen ambushed a vehicle on a road near Yahad, killing an Israeli and wounding a Romanian worker. The al-Aqsa Martyrs’ Brigades claimed responsibility.
I could fill this blog for even more pages, ‘cause I’ve got 7 more years to go, but I think you get the point.
The interesting thing is that all this violence is perfectly justified by the plain text of the koran. There is no bizarre twisting of a religious teaching. I have tried to give you a quick little overview of islam, its teachings, and its relevance to the West. The reason that this violence is never condemned by muslims is simple. They all know that these murders are traveling in the footsteps of mohammed. I wish it was just a platypus, Vegetard, but it ain’t. There is evil in the world, and islam is its name.
Internet Trolls Unite!| 9.2.09 @ 4:41PM
Check this out:
http://www.whitehouse.gov/blog.....in-August/
Look at HIS picture (LOL).
He views himself as a Messiah-----Mohammed perhaps?---after you read the next one?
check this out:
Obama Praises Islam as 'Great Religion' - Political News - L.A. Times Ramadan-Dinner
These two should get out to every Christian you know.
We all know Obadingo didn't win the election, McCain lost it.
Now he has the PLO at the white house (lowered case on purpose--he's lowered the dignity of the office).
Maybe he should have run for president of Iran---apparently that is where his loyalty lies.
This lOser makes Carter look like a Churchill.
Chris Rice | 9.2.09 @ 5:13PM
Okay boys stop fighting and watch this video on Obama and torture:
Truth, Justice and the American Way
VIDEO LINK:
http://votestrike.sosblog.com/.....p47640.htm
And please comment back. Thanks for your time.
Ken (Old Texican)| 9.2.09 @ 6:14PM
Hi Chris
You are a lying communist, and your video was a lie, and you should be ashamed but you won't be...will you?
You just like to shoot three pointers...turds...into intelligent converasations' punch bowls along with toddard.
Go back to your hole. Looser.
S.L. Toddard| 9.2.09 @ 6:39PM
"the career prosecutors from the Eastern District of Virginia who reviewed the allegations in the CIA IG report and determined that there was nothing to warrant a criminal prosecution"
Good lord. *That* is what you people are referring to when you assert that criminal investigation/prosecutions mandated by law had already taken place? The McNulty review? *No* grand jury was impaneled. *No* testimony taken. Your implications of "double-jeopardy" are absurd.
"1. The foreign combatants are NOT entitled to Geneva Convention protections."
False. The Supreme Court in Hamdan ruled that Common Article 3 of the Geneva Conventions applies to all detainees, including accused Terrorists:
http://www.acslaw.org/node/10944
Apart from that, the Convention Against Torture, which Article 6 of the Constitution renders "the Supreme law of the land", expressly outlaws torture by the United States *upon anyone*, with *no exceptions*.
"As an Air Force flyer, I have been subjected to "enhanced interrogation techniques" very similar to the worst of what you have described."
Against your will? No? Then it's hardly relevant, and not at all what I described.
"My opinion, if you don't need to see a doctor, it ain't torture."
Your opinion is entirely irrelevant. Though it's refreshing, I suppose, that you agree that those detainees who *did* require medical treatment were *tortured*, and I assume you join me in demanding that their torturers be brought to justice.
"Finally, the laws which we pass are here to protect our society."
Exactly. And yet you insist that those who break them face no consequences - that those laws which protect our society be made worthless.
"Our civilization is more important than the words we put onto paper whose goal is to protect our civilization. If we are confronted with a barbarism so vast that it is beyond the scope of our civilization, we might need to bend our laws in accordance with reality."
If that ever happens, let me know. Otherwise your fantasy scenario is irrelevant.
"What boggles everyone here is that you hold the value of words on a sheet of paper higher than the lives of Americans"
What sort of "American" considers the Constitution merely "words on a sheet of paper"? Did you not swear that you would "support and defend the Constitution of the United States"? That you would "bear true faith and allegiance to the same" - to this document that you now disparage as "words on a sheet of paper"? Are you truly ignorant of why soldiers are sworn to protect and defend *the Constitution* - i.e. our laws - and not merely our lives? It saddens me that you need this explained to you, but it's because we Americans value our Liberty - and the laws upon which that Liberty stands - over our lives. The loss of *lives* does not threaten our way of life. The loss of the Rule of Law *does*.
"I know you don't believe that muslims are any different from Christians"
You know nothing of the sort. I believe Muslim and Western societies are fundamentally different, and as such I recognize the ludicrous nature of any attempt to impose Western values upon Muslim societies. I'm not the one who absurdly believes we can create democracies in the Middle East out of thin air - that's YOU PEOPLE. You should work on getting your stories straight. As for the rest of your post, I'll pass - thanks.
Interested Conservative| 9.2.09 @ 8:46PM
A quick question SLT - why do you discount the McNulty investigation? Why is that prosecutorial discretion (i.e. to not prosecute) worth less than AG Holder's decision? How do Sec. Napolitano's remarks square the two? What value would a grand jury add (keeping in mind the old saw about the ham sandwich)?
Interested Conservative| 9.2.09 @ 8:53PM
One more note - I don't see the "double jeopardy" reference, but it clearly doesn't apply since no verdict has been reached. AG Holder clearly has the authority to re-investigate, or continue to investigate. It just seems he (and the POTUS) are pointedly challenging prior prosecutorial discretion, which is unusual in the absence of new, and perhaps even compelling, evidence.
The politics and security implications simply make it much more, um, noticeable.
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JimE| 9.2.09 @ 11:01PM
Toddard
"What sort of "American" considers the Constitution merely "words on a sheet of paper"?
Your communist hero obama does.
Daisy| 9.3.09 @ 12:54AM
After fascist liberals complete their witch hunt and have thoroughly purged our intelligence agencies, I think it's only fair these vicious leftists be front and center when blow back hits.
Curs and weasels; they'll cut and run for sure.
These morons are on a national suicide mission and I want out!
Curtis Rasmussen| 9.3.09 @ 1:19AM
S.*it L.icking Toad Turd = Liberal Reader radical loner
This guy can't give up. He arrogantly uses obfuscation to bury the theme of threads under a prodigious mountain of cherry picked ramblings and rants. He calls himself a conservative but aspires to divide and neuter conservative thought.
Hey friendless, ubiquitous lib troll, no one is falling for your bull. Stop putting us to sleep with your endless drivel.
I challenge you to stay away from this site for a week. Just like my schizo whack job neighbor, a restraining order and district ordered relocation of her kin to another school eliminated her desire to threaten and batter my family. Maybe self restraint will work for you.
Nobama| 9.3.09 @ 2:53AM
Don't let the A-Hole hijack any more threads!
Starve the troll.
Marc Jeric| 9.3.09 @ 6:09AM
Torture is pulling nails, cutting balls, etc. Waterboarding in NOT TORTURE! Let us not accept the language of the unholy alliance between the far-left and the islamic terrorists. AG Holder is a friend of terrorists; he pardoned the Puerto Rico murderers and was the Castro's lawyer in the Elian Gonzalez case. What did you expect?
S.L. Toddard| 9.3.09 @ 7:59AM
"What sort of "American" considers the Constitution merely "words on a sheet of paper"?
Your communist hero obama does."
Indeed - that is what makes liberals so dangerous. Disdain for the Rule of Law and our Constitution is one of the primary characteristics of Liberalism, and it is shared by all Liberals, whether social-justice liberals like Obama or liberal Wilsonian internationalists like George W Bush and L. Ross up above.
Todd| 9.3.09 @ 11:21AM
You are a traitorous idiot and everyone here is sick of your nonsensical ramblings. What you advocate is rolling over and not fighting back against the evil scourge that is fundamentalist Islam and you can go straight to hell. I would like to see what you would say if they were to kidnap a family member or kill loved ones in a suicide bombing. Would water-boarding someone involved in that bother you? You are pathetic really, you need mental help.
S.L. Toddard| 9.3.09 @ 12:07PM
"What you advocate is rolling over and not fighting back against the evil scourge that is fundamentalist Islam"
Arrrgh we must beware the Evil Scourge elsewise the Dark Lord and his minions and dragons and so forth will smite us all!!!
What are you, five years old?
Nobama| 9.3.09 @ 1:30PM
Don't let the A-Hole hijack any more threads.
Starve the troll!
gene hauber| 9.3.09 @ 1:30PM
WHAT HAS HAPPENED TO U.S.?
For 50 years we fought the COLD WAR... and some HOT wars to defend America from the leftist (communist) elements both abroad and inside this country.
What we have now is an abomination of the representative democracy that was formed by our Founding Fathers.....a leftist president who lies through his teeth to the American public about how he desires to govern with justice and compassion, BUT all the while waiting until his REAL CONSTITUENTS, the miniscule, cranky communists in the MSM and the REAL TRUE AND BLUE MAGGOT INFESTED COMMIES leftover from the 60's in ACADEMIA...How long they have waited for the TRULY STUPID GENERATION reminiscent of THEIR OWN to once again fill "the ivy halls" of our publicly supported colleges and universities......WE ARE SUBSIDIZING OUR WORST ENEMIES FROM WITHIN WITH TAXPAYER DOLLARS.....THE ELITES OF ACADEMIA, MAGGOTS FROM THE 60'S
We should determine, FROM THE BALLOT BOX, how these people fit in with our general concept of America and use our God given intellect to
VOTE EVERY BUM OUT, (VEBO), IN THE NEXT ELECTION CYCLE.
These people are OUR enemies here in AMERICA. They may be patriots or welfare takers in their own countries or locales here in America, but they are ANTI-AMERICAN no matter how you cut it.
AIR AMERICA....MOVE ON.ORG....ACORN, ACORN, ACORN, ACORN, ACORN, I can't say it enough are ANTI-AMERICAN subversive groups designed ONLY to undermine the MOST EXCELLENT qualities of the greatest place in the whole world, AMERICA.
And guess WHO LEADS THEM.....................
Our partisan president BARACK HUSSEIN OBAMA.
He appointed our "esteemed" attorney general, ERIC HOLDER, to be THE ENFORCER of American law and what he is doing is just the opposite.
He, ERIC HOLDER, is cow-towing to OBAMA, who is now cow-towing to the"FRINGE"" COMMIE LEFTOVERS FROM THE COLD WAR, PETA, THE ENVIRONMENTAL MOVEMENT, i.e. GLOBAL WARMING LIARS, NUCLEAR POWER ALARMISTS, THE HATERS OF THE AMERICAN AUTOMOBILE, TREE HUGGERS AND THE POLAR BEAR HUGGERS.
None of these, except the American car, are in danger.....only in the minds of pea-brained , but very DANGEROUS, ninny's now controlling our ""esteemed"" president obama.
If we spent billions to defeat this same enemy during the cold and hot wars of the latter part of the 20th century with the loss of American lives in combat, I personally do not see why we don't now seek the deaths of this same enemy with a different face.
OUR COUNTRY IS AT STAKE!!!
Todd| 9.3.09 @ 2:13PM
L Ross put together a great summary of the evil that fundamentalist Islam has inflicted on the civilized world in the last few decades you stupid jackass. You refuse to see the evil that is as clear as day because you are a pathetic little coward. Your moral equivalence between Bush and Obama holds no water. Bush sought to protect us against those that would destroy us and who cares if your tender feelings for terrorist rights were offended you piece of crap. Obama and Holder seek to take down our defense by demonizing the CIA and there will be blood on their hands. If your screwed up world, we would be better off dead with thousands dead in the streets then to shoot some water up these scumbag noses. You are without a doubt the most pathetic, moronic troll I have come across except for that retard Dave Matthews.
Jonah| 9.3.09 @ 2:24PM
Todd, he probably IS Dave Mathews. Try not to step in the excrement he spews.
Curtis Rasmussen| 9.3.09 @ 2:26PM
I agree with Nobama.
The only way to get the megalomaniacal trolls to leave is to stop responding to them. They get a visceral thrill from any response to any thread.
Their arguments will never be consistent or coherent. It is all about attacking viewpoints, even if they contradict themselves in the process. Leave them to play with themselves in frustration.
S.L. Toddard| 9.3.09 @ 2:38PM
“L Ross put together a great summary of the evil that fundamentalist Islam has inflicted on the civilized world in the last few decades”
Oh yes, it was certainly “great”.
“You refuse to see the evil that is as clear as day because you are a pathetic little coward”
Let me get this straight - *I* am a “coward” because I am *not* shivering in terror at the relatively minor threat posed by the technologically Neanderthal, poverty-prone, uneducated rabble of religious fanatics in the Middle East who have no army, navy or air force to speak of, and who can never, ever pose any threat to our existence. You, on the other hand, are a Tough Guy because you gutlessly spend all of your time cowering in terror, frightened like a little girl, demanding a Daddy State that is unrestrained by any laws to coddle you and keep you safe from mean, scary “Islamofascists”. Do I have that right? What you are saying is “You are a coward for not being filled with paralyzing fear, like I am”.
Perhaps you were too frightened to really think that one out. Take heart, young man – it is literally impossible for Islamofascists to threaten our existence or way of life. They can kill some of us, true, but that is the risk we take having a Free country. I understand that some of us – faint-hearted cowards to a man – would sacrifice that Freedom for what seems like some extra measure of safety, but true Americans don’t listen to those cowards. We do not live in fear, and will not sacrifice our Laws and Liberty for the false safety of totalitarianism.
Trust me – some day, when you grow into adulthood, you will see it my way. The American way.
Curtis Rasmussen| 9.3.09 @ 2:41PM
I implore all to avoid responding to the ToadTurd post.
Don't feed the troll.
S.L. Toddard| 9.3.09 @ 2:52PM
"I implore all to avoid responding to the ToadTurd post."
It's funny how so many people respond to my posts, but no one bothers to refute them. Wonder why.
Nobama| 9.3.09 @ 2:53PM
No More HiJacked Threads!
Trolls are phantoms and figments whose purpose is to disrupt honest discussion. There is too much at stake to allow ourselves to be distracted.
Starve the troll!
S.L. Toddard| 9.3.09 @ 2:58PM
"Trolls are phantoms and figments whose purpose is to disrupt honest discussion"
The conservative opposition, which includes (obviously) myself, generate 99% of the "discussion" on here. The rest is regurgitation and cheerleading.
Nobama| 9.3.09 @ 3:14PM
Starve the troll!
S.L. Toddard| 9.3.09 @ 3:51PM
Haha.
Patriot| 9.3.09 @ 4:01PM
It's working; the troll stench is almost gone. lol
Fruzz| 9.3.09 @ 9:32PM
The more America embraces torture, the more it isolates itself from the rest of the world culturally. Then the next step is to isolate it economically, which will happen soon enough - we just have to keep making sure they place lower and lower priority on education, and have fairy tales replace the contents of science classes.
A.B NOrmal| 9.3.09 @ 10:19PM
Let the show trials begin.
The first war criminals to be prosecuted should be Billy and Mad Madeline.
Bombing and Cruise Missle Tomahawking Belgrad was an incredible war crime.
Also Janet should stand trial for murdering dozens of men women and children in Tx.
adios,
ab
lancaster, greater aztlan.
got enemies list?
got boxcars?
Johnno| 9.3.09 @ 11:34PM
Hey, Fruzz, don't call us when a real "torturer" nation threatens to hit you with a nuke. Screw you, moron.
S.L. Toddard| 9.4.09 @ 3:20PM
"Billy and Mad Madeline.
Bombing and Cruise Missle Tomahawking Belgrad was an incredible war crime.
Also Janet should stand trial for murdering dozens of men women and children in Tx."
Both good points. Bravo.
NO TROLLS!| 9.4.09 @ 5:37PM
Starve the Troll!
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Answers1| 9.7.09 @ 11:08PM
What goes around comes around...Obama's people will be on the chopping block soon enough.