The American Spectator

Bob| 7.27.09 @ 8:20AM

So let me get this straight -- both Alaskan Democrats and Republicans think that Parnell will do a more effective job as Governor than Palin. So if Palin couldn't effectively govern Alaska -- the smallest state in population -- what makes anyone think she is a good candidate for President? When energy prices dropped, Alaska was not as easy to manage and Palin quit. She may be able to draw large crowds of ultra right wing zealots, but she cannot govern.

John| 7.27.09 @ 8:37AM

Bob, pro-life is ultra right-wing? Fiscal responsibility is ultra right-wing? Pro-family and marriage is ultra right-wing? Pro-energy independence is ultra right-wing? Pro-sustainable environment is ultra right-wing? Well then, clearly ultra right-wing is the way to go! See ya!

Bob| 7.27.09 @ 9:01AM

John, Sarah drew people who were birthers and "Obama is a terrorist" supporters. Ultra right wing? You betcha!!!!

And by the way, Obama was also pro-family and marriage, pro-energy independence, and pro-sustainable environment. Certainly, a guy who didn't get married because he got his wife pregnant and is raising a very good family is a great example for our kids.

Nice try, but not on point, John.

John| 7.27.09 @ 9:33AM

Likewise, the people who were saying Bush was a terrorist were most likely supporters of Obama. Ultra left-wing? I suspect so.

Regarding marriage, well as long as he remains in support of what we call 'traditional' marriage, I'll believe it. However, given his liberal record, I wouldn't be surprised if he passed legislation in favor of equating homosexual unions as marriage. Furthermore, since marriage is linked to family, this would affect the latter.

Sustainable environment? Yes, but at what cost to the economy and the wellbeing of society? Personally, I'd love it if instead of implementing cap-and-trade and spending billions on unnecessary projects, Obama would invest in nuclear fussion.

Bob| 7.27.09 @ 9:54AM

Yes, John, I have the same animosity against the extreme left who also utilize emotion rather than reason. Notice that you didn't mention "traditional" marriage the first time. There is no homosexual marriage that will threaten my heterosexual marriage. I guess you feel your marriage bond is rather weak.

I want Republicans who don't want the government to interfere with MY PERSONAL LIFE, whether it be on fiscal OR personal issues. Limited government is just that -- limited.

If you're asking if I support cap-and-trade, I don't. But from Palin's comments, I'm not sure she really understands the intricacies of cap-and-trade. She did get a "D" in macroeconomics.

Regarding nuclear power, it makes a lot of sense. It is too bad that politics gets in the way of this energy source. But if you notice, Republicans are no better because they say they'll support nuclear power, but will not allow a nuclear waste repository in their state. If you won't allow a place to store nuclear waste, you don't really support nuclear energy. And by the way, almost all of the nuclear plants are "fission", not "fusion". I've never heard of "fussion".

Aaron| 7.27.09 @ 10:00AM

Seeing how Palin has a 40% popularity rating (ABC News poll, July), it would stand to reason that Palin's popularity among Conservatives would transfer to Parnell. I believe that she trusted his values or she wouldn't have stepped aside leaving him in control. Parnell will soon assert his own voice as a Conservative governor and Alaskan's will benefit from a fresh player on the floor.

Truth to Power| 7.27.09 @ 10:57AM

3/5 Bob is quite the projector. Bob supported a guy who is doing stupid things that Sarah Palin would never support. Like Bob the President's education looks better on paper than in reality. 3/5 Bob wants the elite class to decide issues like abortion and gay marriage using the courts instead of making law in the proper way. Typically he wants his view forced on me and with no recourse. I am willing to follow the laws made in our legislatures. Not Bob he wants a cadre of Sotomayors forcing his opinion undemocratically. With Bob the world revolves around gay marriage. He is a single issue guy.

Bob| 7.27.09 @ 11:06AM

Hey, Power, it is you and your ilk that constantly brings up "traditional" marriage with all of your bigotry. I just responded. You must also be threatened because your marriage is so weak. By allowing people to choose, I do not force anything on you. You are free to choose what you want. But you want to force your beliefs on me. Your beliefs restrict people, mine let them use their free will.

I don't want "elites" to make law -- I want people to be able to have the freedom to choose. I don't want the courts involved either way. Power, you need to see a shrink about your homophobia.

Joe| 7.27.09 @ 11:13AM

Yes it does hurt marriage and devalue it. Look at the countries that have tried homo marriage. They are the same choices we have to marry someone of the oposite sex. If they choose not to, again it will be there choice. There is no need to hurt children, silence critics or throw this lifestyle choice in the American peoples faces. They don't want it. It is not necessary and not helpful to society at large. Why should we make special laws for a few people for something that has hurt not help other societies.

Aaron| 7.27.09 @ 11:42AM

"you need to see a shrink about your homophobia." Now who needs to see a shrink? Making up false arguments to shut up the opposition is a classic extremist tactic. What color is the placebo that you would give for this fake phobia? What does any of this have to do with Governor Sean Parnel? Oh, my bad, what does any of your rants EVER have to do with the topic at hand.

As Gibran said: "In much of your talking, thinking is half murdered".

Mattled| 7.27.09 @ 1:07PM

Gee, since the resident troll (He Who Makes All Yawn), has Palin's grades handy, could you please get a hold of Obama's?

Maybe his Occidental admissions form? SAT scores? ACT?

Bueller, Bueller---

Bob| 7.27.09 @ 2:07PM

Aaron -- false arguments are ones like same sex marriage has hurt in other countries.

Here are the divorce rates by country:

http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/peo_div_rat-people-divorce-rate

We win... only one conclusion... heterosexual marriage causes weaker marriages....

Mattled -- there is no need to respond to a yawn... your behavior indicates that you believe I am a threat. By the way, it was Palin who bragged that she received a "D" in macroeconomics. Bragging about a "D"? Please tell your kids not to study so they can also be a candidate for the intellectually challenged.

Paul Revere| 7.27.09 @ 2:47PM

Why don't you Rahm Emanuel-playbook-reading, Palin bashing adolescents stay off of this website and go fantasize about Arianna Huffpuffandblow?

Truth to Power| 7.27.09 @ 2:55PM

As I said 3/5 Bob is quite the projector.

"I don't want "elites" to make law... " Yes he does. Laws necessarily take away choice. The question is to how they are made. Bob wants judges to do the dirty work and the citizens to shut up. He needs to stop forcing his views onto the rest of us. The constitutions (states and federal) provide perfectly good ways of making laws. We shouldn't be bullied by single issue guys like Bob.

Scottie| 7.27.09 @ 3:26PM

Overall, a pretty good piece and it’s true, Sean Parnell will probably serve Alaska as well as Sarah did. The one thing I take exception to, which is not the author’s fault, was Beth Kerttula’s disingenuous statement:

"He actually calls us," state House Minority Leader Beth Kerttula, a Juneau Democrat, told the Associated Press. "He's going to make more of an effort that way."

Only three days ago our local TV station, KTUU in Anchorage, was reminiscing fondly about the days of Sarah and part of the program was a collage of film clips in which some were of Democratic notables commenting on how nice it was to have a governor from the “other side” who would actually consult with them and solicit their opinions on important issues facing Alaska. That’s how, after 30 years of failure by others, she was able to get a natural gas pipeline deal through. Of course, all of that was before, as one honest Democrat legislator up here confided, they got their marching orders from the DNC to quit cooperating with Sarah.

lynnrockets| 7.27.09 @ 3:37PM

Oh, Sarah, we hardly knew ye...

ALASKAN PIE
(sung to the Don McLean song “American Pie”)

A long, long time ago…
I can still remember
Palin’s slutty flight attendant style
And when she blew her only chance
With John McCain in the Big Dance
In light of the pregnancy of her child

In February she did shiver
When Levi sold her down the river
Bad news at her doorstep
She didn’t have no more pep

The allegations she denied
Of all those gifts that she did hide
She took Alaskans for a ride
As she cajoled and lied

So bye-bye Miss Alaska bye-bye
You were shady and darn lazy
With a crazy beehive
And your background boys were making turkey head pie
Then you quit on the third day of July
Quit on the third day of July

Did you quit the job you love
After talking with God up above?
Did the good Lord tell you so?
Are you still pals with Plumber Joe?
Do dead fish still go with the flow?
And can Todd’s sister score me some good blow?

Well you know that your prospects are grim
’cause you’re way way out there on a limb
You’re sure to have the blues
Man, you screwed up those interviews

You’re just a lonely mid-aged “hockey mom”
With real deep frustration and a man that’s dumb
You’re just a third rate school alum
Today your future died

We started singing
Bye-bye Miss Alaska bye-bye
You were shady and darn lazy
With a crazy beehive
And your background boys were making turkey head pie
Then you quit on the third day of July
Quit on the third day of July

Now for two years all you did was drone
Remember Sarkozy on the phone?
But just what will your future be?
Will you pester us like a has been queen?
Will you pout and whine like a spoiled teen?
In a voice that sounds so shrill and mean,

Oh, and when you leave Wasilla town
Take along your beauty pageant crown
And bridges that you burned
Oh, please never return
And those hits you took will leave some marks
A “Barracuda” is no shark
And you were always in the dark
Today your future died

We were singing
Bye-bye Miss Alaska bye-bye
You were shady and darn lazy
With a crazy beehive
And your background boys were making turkey head pie
Then you quit on the third day of July
Quit on the third day of July

Helter skelter you are sure to swelter
The ice in your veins may even melt-ah
Ethics problems coming fast
You’re landing hard on your ass
No throwing stones in a house of glass
When you’re starring in a demon cleansing mass

Now your thinning hair reeks with perfume
You’re a spaceman cuz you see the moon
Your fans would shout and dance
Oh, to your “drill baby drill” chants!
Katie Couric made you squirm and squeal
And that was when your fate was sealed
Do you recall what was revealed
The day your future died?

We started singing
Bye-bye Miss Alaska bye-bye
You were shady and darn lazy
With a crazy beehive
And your background boys were making turkey head pie
Then you quit on the third day of July
Quit on the third day of July

Oh, and then that look upon your face
Not knowing a Supreme Court case
Forget about the Bush Doctrine
So come on: jack be nimble, jack be quick
Sarah Palin’s no “Maverick”
Cuz she’s just a “Barbie” to Todd’s “Ken”

As we watched you on that debate stage
Your hands were clenched in fists of rage
Everyone then could tell
You were praying for the bell
And as you hoped that you could land a right,
To salvage something of the night
We saw Biden laughing with delight
That day your future died

Joe was singing
Bye-bye Miss Alaska bye-bye
You were shady and darn lazy
With a crazy beehive
And your background boys were making turkey head pie
Then you quit on the third day of July
Quit on the third day of July

Palin’s a girl who has the blues
And she cannot handle interviews
She quit her job and walked away
She could not take it any more
She hightailed it right out the door
Just like a scared child, she up and ran away

And in the streets the voters beamed,
The good Lord had fulfilled their dreams
Sherry Johnston was tokin’
The “barracuda” broken
We did not really want to boast
But “Mama Bear” was finally toast
She’ll write about it through her ghost
That day her future died.

And we were singing
Bye-bye Miss Alaska bye-bye
You were shady and darn lazy
With a crazy beehive
And your background boys were making turkey head pie
Then you quit on the third day of July
Quit on the third day of July

We were singing
Bye-bye Miss Alaska bye-bye
You were shady and darn lazy
With a crazy beehive
And your background boys were making turkey head pie
Then you quit on the third day of July

Bob| 7.27.09 @ 3:42PM

Well, Power, it seems you have a comprehension deficit. My issue is primarily fiscal conservatism -- but YOURS is clearly gay marriage. If laws take away choice, then let's not push for a federal marriage or federal abortion mandate. Let's rescind the Hyde amendment. Yes, Power, I am all for fewer laws restricting our behavior.

And I don't want judges to do the dirty work -- either on the right or the left. Your argument is clearly weak and inconsistent. If laws take away choice, then don't force any down our throats concerning marriage, abortion, or any other social construct.

Scottie, when Sarah was the friend of Democrats, she was taxing energy companies, soliciting the federal government for pork (like the road to nowhere) and giving handouts to citizens. It is easy for Dems to like someone who does that. If she had not done that, she would not have received the support of Dems. When energy prices dropped like a rock, so did the support of Dems -- and for good reason. Then, with her national campaign, her support of right wing social issues also grated against the Dems. Yes, the DNC had a hand in it, but it was just one of many things that made that occur.

Scottie| 7.27.09 @ 5:01PM

Bob, the “bridge to nowhere” earmark was secured before Sarah became governor, she had nothing to do with it, not that stood in the way of Democrats using it against her.

The fact is, the Gravina Island Bridge initially received $223 million in 2005 via earmarks by Alaska Senators Ted Stevens and Lisa Murkowski. The bridge would have connected Ketchikan, Alaska with its local airport on nearby Gravina Island (population 50). Congress stripped the earmark after a national uproar about it but appropriated the money anyway for unspecified transportation uses. Former Gov. Frank Murkowski’s administration set aside about $113 million of the appropriation for the Ketchikan bridge. However, Gov. Sarah Palin said the $398 million bridge was $329 million short of full funding, and only $36 million in federal funds were set aside for it. She said it was clear Congress had little interest in spending any more money for it and that the state had higher priorities. [Don Young's Way, Wall Street Journal, 2/7/2006]

http://www.opinionjournal.com/diary/?id=110007930

If the bridge were built, the family of Sen. Lisa Murkowski would benefit. Murkowski’s mother Nancy, wife of former Gov. Frank Murkowski, is co-owner with her three siblings of a 35-acre parcel of land on Gravina Island. The plot is valued at $245,000 and is within a mile of the bridge’s western end. While critics charge that the bridge would increase the value of their property, the Murkowski family has taken umbrage at any suggestion of impropriety. Murkowski called her family’s undeveloped Gravina parcel “a worthless piece of property.” [Don Young's Way, Wall Street Journal, 2/7/2006]

http://www.opinionjournal.com/diary/?id=110007930

Regardless of what you feel about the state’s PFD, which was established in 1976 when Jay Hammond was our governor, the fact is, Beth Kertulla was being disingenuous, Sarah did work with them.

Bob| 7.27.09 @ 5:24PM

Scottie -- your information on the bridge to nowhere leaves out some information. This is directly from FactCheck.org:

"September 2006: Palin, campaigning for governor, tells the Ketchikan Chamber of Commerce that she supports the bridge and would use the money from Congress for the Gravina Access Project. The bridge would connect Ketchikan to Gravina Island, replacing a ferry and improving access to the Ketchikan airport.

Palin, Sept. 2006: The money that’s been appropriated for the project, it should remain available for a link, an access process as we continue to evaluate the scope and just how best to just get this done. This link is a commitment to help Ketchikan expand its access, to help this community prosper.

Palin reiterates her support to other groups and news sources during her campaign. For instance, an Anchorage Daily News poll asks candidates whether they would continue state funding for the bridge. Palin answers in Oct. 2006: "Yes. I would like to see Alaska's infrastructure projects built sooner rather than later. The window is now – while our congressional delegation is in a strong position to assist.""

http://www.factcheck.org/askfactcheck/whats_the_full_story_on_the_bridge.html

It is tough dealing with facts, isn't it Scottie. Your biased view comes from a right wing opinion piece, not a fact checking organization. Facts are stubborn things. Perhaps someone should beam you up to the mothership.

lynnrockets| 7.27.09 @ 6:08PM

Scottie says, "ouch!"

Scottie| 7.27.09 @ 6:16PM

What it shows is that politicians who are not intimately involved in the day-to-day operations of the government they seek to run often find that those promises and opinions expressed on the campaign trail occasionally do not comport with the reality of the job after they secure it. While some, such as our current president, ignore these realities when confronted with them, Sarah, once apprised of them, was willing to adjust accordingly, even if it meant breaking so-called promises to partisan Democrat Ketchikan mayor, Bob Weinstein. Of course, stating support for something on the campaign trail, which is what she did, is far different than promising to make it happen, which she didn’t. If only this country had more like her.

I must say, I do find it amusing that you would defend the Frank Murkowski administration that many, if not most Alaskans, consider the most corrupt in the history of our state, which is really what you’re doing.

Truth to Power| 7.27.09 @ 6:17PM

3/5 Bob brings up gay marriage all the time so I thought it was important to him. Everything else for him seems to revolve about that issue. He mumbles on about being a fiscal conservative but voted for President Obama. Not consistant but very funny! The gay marriage crowd have put great hope in President Obama and his court appointments. Maybe this explained 3/5 Bob's enthusiasm and not fiscal conservatism. That seems more consistant to me. I just want a reasonable way to make laws that doesn't involve the elite class forcing their typically bankrupt opinions on the rest of us. Marriage will be legally defined by somebody and no doubt some (for instance polygamists) will be unhappy with that definition. I would like it to be a state legsilature that does that task and not a judge. It is a simple idea and applies to all kinds of potential laws. This is the way our constitutions say that it should work. 3/5 Bob should stop trying to force his morality on the rest of us.

Thom| 7.27.09 @ 7:05PM

"Bob should stop trying to force his morality on the rest of us." Bob's morality is USD, nothing else.

Ken MacAlister Jr.| 7.27.09 @ 8:14PM

3/5 Bob, you are a complete ass. Moveon.org is calling. Go answer the call. Lynnrockets, you have too much time on your hands. Grow up & be an adult. Sitting around writing childish songs to put a person down does not contribute anything of any worth to society. Palin Derangement Syndrome just continues to rear it's ugly head & expose PDS sufferers for what they really are.

thinkingabovemyapygrade| 7.27.09 @ 9:07PM

Here's hoping the Alaska pipeline thru Canada to the US helps us further lower our foreign energy dependency.

Alaska (as well as portions of continental US) has good energy resources---but the US gov't apparently has approval power.

But some politicians will not allow the US to use its own energy (and alternate energy is not yet cheap enough or practical enough).

People get caught up in the Palin issue---ALASKA does have some hope for our energy future...and this is mainly being ignored.

lynnrockets| 7.27.09 @ 9:12PM

@ Ken MacAlister
You're right. How's this...

LIAR AND INSANE

(sung to the James Taylor song “Fire And Rain”)

One warm July morning they let me know you were gone
Sarah, the eggs you laid put an end to you
I woke up this morning and I wrote down this song
I hope the blogosphere transmits it to you

I’ve seen liars that are insane
I’ve seen money games involving your best friends
I’ve seen phoney lines you’ve spread again and again
But I’m awfully glad that your tenure will end

Won’t it be great when you leave us
And you’re no longer in command
Alaskans should declare a big holiday
Palin you’re shaking and do not understand
We want you to leave and to stay away

Oh, I’ve seen liars that just cause pain
I’ve seen sunny days that you somehow turned to rain
You committed crimes, on that we can depend
But you’ll next work at a bar that you can tend

If we only timed everytime you whined we’d have had so damn much fun
Lord knows when your temper shows you emit a funny sound
Well we’ve hours of time to reminisce and pine of the days of Tweetle-Dumb
Pipe dreams and young pregnant teens, a beauty pageant crown

Oh, I’ve seen ire and much disdain
I’ve seen lack of praise and of respect, without end
I’ve seen wicked times that I never will defend
But I never thought I’d see Sarah Palin reach the bitter end, now

Glad we get to witness your downward trend
They’ll be a few things people will say about this clown, now
Glad to see you, glad to see you boarding that train now…..

Mark| 7.27.09 @ 9:30PM

Bob,

Calling someone a homophobe because they oppose "gay marriage" denotes a lack of intellectual integrity. I suppose that I am a racist because I dislike the policies of the current president and because I hope that Sotomayor will not be confirmed. I don't support the legalizing of "gay marriage", yet I am not a homophobe. "Gay marriage" is an oxymoron, like dry rain. It is a fiction that is being pushed on us as a supposed civil right.
I would also assume that, despite your protestations against government constraining your choices, you are in favor on some laws that restrict choice. I would assume that you are in favor of laws that prevent one from taking your possessions without your permission or harming one of your loved ones. I would say that these are laws that would be agreeable to even the most strident libertarian. Science proves absolutely that abortion results in the killing of a human being, an incredibly innocent and vulnerable human being at that. One can argue whether any human being is worthy of protection, but one can’t claim that what is aborted is a dog or a grapefruit. I would posit that any society that does not have the will to protect innocent human beings from deliberate and directed harm is a sick society, regardless how affluent that society may be. A further symptom of this disease is that those who call for the protection of the unborn are labeled as extremists and beyond the pale of political discourse.

William| 7.27.09 @ 10:04PM

It is indeed gratifying to know that despite having stepped aside as Governor of Alaska, Sarah Palin remains front and center in the minds of liberals, haters, and other nation-killing deadenders. After the way these freaks have attempted to assassinate Gov. Palin and her family, they deserve the plague that is Palin Derangement Syndrome. LynnRockets appears to have completely gone off the deep end perseverating like some blithering lunatic in an asylum. And for Bob, the Palin prion has worked deep into his psyche. He seems so unhappy, despite the fact that his candidate won the election!?!

Most gratifying, however, is the fact that Sarah Palin has emerged tall and strong, and in fightin' form. I suspect the Obama/Axelrod/Soros cabal now wishes that they hadn't forced this genie out of the bottle.

And consider the following. After his loss to Gerald Ford, Ronald Reagan appealed only to the right-wing base. During his first year in office, Jimmy Carter enjoyed extraordinary approval ratings, drawing support from both Democrats and Republicans. Three years later, Reagan, the B-movie actor, the amiable dunce, the old man who would rather take a nap than read a threat assessment, pulled off the most dramatic landslide victory against an incumbent president in US history.

Godspeed Sarah Palin. We've got your back!

lynnrockets| 7.27.09 @ 11:42PM

@ William
"perseverating" ???

By the way, how's this...

SLIP SLIDIN’ AWAY

(sung to the Paul Simon song “Slip Slidin’ Away”)

Slip slidin’ away
Slip slidin’ away
You know the nearer her resignation
Her numbers keep slidin’ away

I knew a gal
She’s from Wasilla Town
She was a beehive wearin’ woman
With a pageant crown
Did nothing for us
In her two years
Her perfume was so overpowering
She scared away the polar bears

Slip slidin’ away
Slip slidin’ away
You know the nearer her resignation
Her numbers keep slidin’ away

She’s from Alaska
The First Dude’s wife
She won’t condone birth control choices
‘Cuz she is pro-life
She said Tina Fey
Was such a pain
She likes to fly and fill wolves with hot lead
Without concern that they feel pain

Slip slidin’ away
Slip slidin’ away
You know the nearer her resignation
Her numbers keep slidin’ away

She is a mother
Who totes a gun
On snow machines in winter seasons
Each and every one
After a long day
She would explain
That there are few ways to keep busy
When you are a governor without a brain

Slip slidin’ away
Slip slidin’ away
You know the nearer her resignation
Her numbers keep slidin’ away

She had some foes
They had a plan
They found she was not unassailable
The next time she ran
When ethics problems
Won’t go away
She’ll quit and head right down the highway
As her support keeps slidin’ away

Slip slidin’ away
Slip slidin’ away
You know the nearer her resignation
Her numbers keep slidin’ away

Slip slidin’ away
You know the nearer her resignation
Her numbers keep slidin’ away
Mmm…

SARAH FOR PRESIDENT 2012| 7.28.09 @ 1:18AM

Do you want to see how threatened the left is by Palin?

Look at 'RINO' Bob, the man who professes to be a fiscal conservative who fully supports Obama's disastrous fiscal policies.

Bob even finds excuses for Obama's 11+% and skyrocketing unemployment numbers. Bob says that Obama has the answers to save our economy, and that is why he voted for him. That's fiscal 'conservative' RINO Bob.

Then there's Lynn Sprockets, the brain damaged arse who butchers songs all the while stalking Sarah. Clever? No. Cheap and Tawdry? Yes, Sprockets is both

They both fear Sarah because she has the charisma to lead millions of us out of the Marxist nightmare being visited upon us by the Obama Marxist democrats. Sarah is a fighter, and so are we.

Stand strong people and start organizing to vote in Conservatives--not pretender turds like 'RINO' Bob--but real Conservatives who love God, family and country; who value life for all. We can do this thing!

Losers like liar Bob and stupid sprockets can't stop us--we will prevail because we must.

Lesbian Lynn| 7.28.09 @ 1:20AM

I love you, Bob!

Liberal Reader| 7.28.09 @ 1:24AM

Palin did a heck of a jab as govurnur of Laska while oil was like a 200 dollurs a barrel. They could you know send checks to everyone for five thousand dollurs a year to get their economy on track and progress the state all the time.

But when oil dropped back to normul and the state wasn't floating like a crabbing boat on that money well, see ya! Because it's not so easy to be governor when you have to make decisions. And besides! It just was so boring, after being on Saturday Night Live and all that! Would Sarah make a heck of a president of this great country? You betcha! But all those attackers and haters in the media just want to attack her and appease our enemies, and they think this country is so imperfect that hang around with terrists. If we let that happen, we have to keep a watchful eye on that to make sure we see what it does.

FeralCat| 7.28.09 @ 2:48AM

Sarah tried to warn them
But they held their blue noses up high
All the time she warned them
But they only passed her by

She tried to tell them
But I guess they didn't care
They turned their backs and
Left her standing there

All the destroyed parts of America that have fallen after him
All the lonely feelings and the burning memories
Everything Obama trashed each time he closed a freedom door
Destroyed parts of America lost forevermore

Obama tried to get me to take a job a while ago
When I finally saw it was just printing more fiat money for his cronies I didn't want to go
The party Ronald Reagan gave to me
The Rinos just tore it all away
Now there's nothing left for me to say

All the destroyed parts of America that have fallen after him
All the lonely feelings and the burning memories
Everything Obama trashed each time he closed a freedom door
Destroyed parts of America lost forevermore

When years have passed they'll start thinking
What fools they've been
They'll look back into the past and
Think of way back then
They'll know that America lost everything they thought that it could win
I guess they should have listened to their friends

All the destroyed parts of America that have fallen after him
All the lonely feelings and the burning memories
Everything Obama trashed each time he closed a freedom door
Destroyed parts of America lost forevermore

Destroyed parts of America lost forevermore

FeralCat| 7.28.09 @ 2:56AM

lynnrockets:
Slip slidin’ away
You know the nearer her resignation
Her numbers keep slidin’ away
Mmm…

Polls keep a fallin' on my head
And just like the guy whose wife's butt is to too big for his bed
Nothin' seems to fit
Those polls are a fallin' on my head, they keep fallin'

So I just did me some talkin' to Emanuel
And he said we'd just get conservative bloggers to give Sarah Palin some more Hell
Get others to do our that job
Those polls are fallin' on my head, they keep fallin'

But there's one thing I know
The blues polls send to meet me won't defeat me
It won't be long till Marxist happiness steps up to greet me

Polls keep a fallin' on my head
But that doesn't mean the country will soon be turnin' red
Losin's not for me
'Cause I'm never gonna stop the polls by complainin'
Because I'm conscience free
They'll just get the deep six from me

FeralCat| 7.28.09 @ 3:02AM

lynnrockets:
I’ve seen liars that are insane
I’ve seen money games involving your best friends
I’ve seen phoney lines you’ve spread again and again
But I’m awfully glad that your tenure will end

He's a real Control Freak Man
Ruling in this hostage held land
Making all his controlling plans
For everybody

Doesn't listen to an opposing point of view
Control Freak man, ruling all he thinks is his purview
Control Freak Man, he had better listen
He don't know with what he's messin'
Knows already just what he wants to do
Doesn't he seem a lot like Hitler and Mussolini to you?

He's a real Control Freak Man
Ruling in this hostage held land
Making all his controlling plans
For everybody

He's as blinded by his lust for power as he can be
Just sees what he wants to see
He's got such a God complex point of call
Control Freak Man can you even see America at all?
Knows already just what he wants to do
Doesn't he seem a lot like Hitler and Mussolini to you?

He's a real Control Freak Man
Ruling in this hostage held land
Making all his controlling plans
For everybody

About Control Freak Man we should all worry
To destroy all America built he is in a hurry
If he controls everything his fascist way
It will be a forlorn day
Hes going to leave it all a mess
Anyone of sound mind must confess

He's a real Control Freak Man
Ruling in this hostage held land
Making all his controlling plans
For everybody

FeralCat| 7.28.09 @ 3:12AM

lynnrockets:
A long, long time ago…
I can still remember
Palin’s slutty flight attendant style
And when she blew her only chance
With John McCain in the Big Dance
In light of the pregnancy of her child

Where have all our freedoms gone?
Long time passing
Where have all our freedoms gone?
Long time ago
Where have all our freedoms gone?
Obama is destroying them one by one
When will America ever learn?
When will America ever learn?

Where have all our trillions gone?
Long time passing
Where have all our trillions gone?
Long time ago
Where have all our trillions gone?
Gone to Obama cronies every one
When will America ever learn?
When will America ever learn?

Where have all the old folks gone?
Long time passing
Where have all the old folks gone?
Long time ago
Where have all the old folks gone?
Gone to Obama Health Care graveyards every one
When will America ever learn?
When will America ever learn?

Where have all the Obama Health Care hospitals gone?
Long time passing
Where have all the Obama Health Care hospitals gone?
Long time ago
Where have all the Obama Health Care hospitals gone?
Covered with shutters every one
When will America ever learn?
When will America ever learn?

stephanie| 7.28.09 @ 8:23AM

Hey Bob, Obama is pro-death.

What happened to the Michael J. Fox article from earlier this morning?

A Jewish disease| 7.28.09 @ 9:41AM

http://www.mazornet.com/genetics/index.asp

Jewish Genetic Diseases

Mazornet.com, creator of the best Jewish Celebrations Vendor Directory, and the Kosher Restaurant Directory, in order to provide helpful services to the Jewish community, is also proud to present this important website.
Mazornet's staff is dedicated to compile helpful information and resources concerning Jewish Genetic Diseases.

The first step towards unraveling the mysteries behind genetic disorders is to find the problem genes. Many defective genes have been identified and work is ongoing to discover feasible methods for "cures". While investigations of genetic treatments continue, people are in a position to begin using the current facts for their benefit.

There are nearly 4,000 genetic diseases known that afflict the world’s population. However, in almost every ethnic, racial, or demographic group, certain genetic diseases occur at higher frequencies among their members than in the general population. Such is the case for the Jewish people.

The genetic diseases described on Mazornet's Jewish Diseases are disorders which occur more frequently in individuals of Jewish ancestry. Most diseases are severely incapacitating and some are tragically debilitating, leading to death in infancy or early childhood. Tay-Sachs may be the most notorious of the lot, but other diseases, just as prevalent and just as devastating, shatter the lives of Jewish families.

Children and adults with a rare genetic disease have multiple needs to address: health concerns, primarily, but others as well. As a service to the global Jewish community, Mazornet.com is committed to gathering and compiling data about Jewish genetic disorders. More importantly, Mazornet.com’s mission is to serve as the ultimate information resource by surfacing areas of assistance online and in the real world. It is not Mazornet.com’s intent to choose resources, but rather to make support information and resources of any kind available to the people and to the families afflicted by these diseases. There is hope, and there is help.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

There has been much debate about whether jews are a race. Well, jews are far
from being a pure race. They are a hybrid people, consisting of Edomites,
Hittites, Canaanites, Judahites, Babylonians, Ishmaelites, Huns, Khazars, etc.
However, they do have a distinctive gene pool. According to Dr. Richard Goodman,
in a study, ("Genetic Disorders Among The Jewish People"), he made for John
Hopkins University in Baltimore, there are 112 hereditary diseases within the
jewish race, which originate from causes found in the jewish brain and central
nervous system. The Jewish Encyclopedia verifies this as well by stating "The
Jews are more subject to diseases of the nervous system than other races and
peoples among which they dwell. Hysteria and neuroasthenia appear to be most
frequent. Some physicians of large experience among the Jews have even gone so
far as to state that most of them are neuroasthenia and hysterical (female
trait). In addition, Dr. Alexander Pilez, world famous psychiatrist from Vienna,
states in his outstanding work, "Weiner Klinische Rundschau," page 888: "Cases
where acute psychoses lend to idiocy and lunacy are of particular frequency with
the Jews." For additional information, go to the The National Foundation for
Jewish Genetic Diseases, Inc website at: www.nfjgd.org.

By contrast, there are no hereditary diseases which exist exclusively within the
white race. The Negro race has only one- Sickle Cell Anemia. Highly mongrelized
people would be more prone to diseases than pure races. The same is true with
hybridized plants and animals. God cursed each of these former composite tribes
that make up the Jewish people. Is it any wonder, the Israelites were warned by
God not to intermarry with them? Now, are they a race? I'll let you answer that
for yourself.

http://www.mazornet.com/genetics/index.asp

Jewish Genetic Diseases

Mazornet.com, creator of the best Jewish Celebrations Vendor Directory, and the Kosher Restaurant Directory, in order to provide helpful services to the Jewish community, is also proud to present this important website.
Mazornet's staff is dedicated to compile helpful information and resources concerning Jewish Genetic Diseases.

The first step towards unraveling the mysteries behind genetic disorders is to find the problem genes. Many defective genes have been identified and work is ongoing to discover feasible methods for "cures". While investigations of genetic treatments continue, people are in a position to begin using the current facts for their benefit.

There are nearly 4,000 genetic diseases known that afflict the world’s population. However, in almost every ethnic, racial, or demographic group, certain genetic diseases occur at higher frequencies among their members than in the general population. Such is the case for the Jewish people.

The genetic diseases described on Mazornet's Jewish Diseases are disorders which occur more frequently in individuals of Jewish ancestry. Most diseases are severely incapacitating and some are tragically debilitating, leading to death in infancy or early childhood. Tay-Sachs may be the most notorious of the lot, but other diseases, just as prevalent and just as devastating, shatter the lives of Jewish families.

Children and adults with a rare genetic disease have multiple needs to address: health concerns, primarily, but others as well. As a service to the global Jewish community, Mazornet.com is committed to gathering and compiling data about Jewish genetic disorders. More importantly, Mazornet.com’s mission is to serve as the ultimate information resource by surfacing areas of assistance online and in the real world. It is not Mazornet.com’s intent to choose resources, but rather to make support information and resources of any kind available to the people and to the families afflicted by these diseases. There is hope, and there is help.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

There has been much debate about whether jews are a race. Well, jews are far
from being a pure race. They are a hybrid people, consisting of Edomites,
Hittites, Canaanites, Judahites, Babylonians, Ishmaelites, Huns, Khazars, etc.
However, they do have a distinctive gene pool. According to Dr. Richard Goodman,
in a study, ("Genetic Disorders Among The Jewish People"), he made for John
Hopkins University in Baltimore, there are 112 hereditary diseases within the
jewish race, which originate from causes found in the jewish brain and central
nervous system. The Jewish Encyclopedia verifies this as well by stating "The
Jews are more subject to diseases of the nervous system than other races and
peoples among which they dwell. Hysteria and neuroasthenia appear to be most
frequent. Some physicians of large experience among the Jews have even gone so
far as to state that most of them are neuroasthenia and hysterical (female
trait). In addition, Dr. Alexander Pilez, world famous psychiatrist from Vienna,
states in his outstanding work, "Weiner Klinische Rundschau," page 888: "Cases
where acute psychoses lend to idiocy and lunacy are of particular frequency with
the Jews." For additional information, go to the The National Foundation for
Jewish Genetic Diseases, Inc website at: www.nfjgd.org.

By contrast, there are no hereditary diseases which exist exclusively within the
white race. The Negro race has only one- Sickle Cell Anemia. Highly mongrelized
people would be more prone to diseases than pure races. The same is true with
hybridized plants and animals. God cursed each of these former composite tribes
that make up the Jewish people. Is it any wonder, the Israelites were warned by
God not to intermarry with them? Now, are they a race? I'll let you answer that
for yourself.

Michael L. Hauschild| 7.28.09 @ 9:46AM

Here, in troll speak, exists probably the greatest testimonial to Sarah Palin found in print. This site consistently provides a very rational and insightful take to what is truly conservative. It also exemplifies freedom of speech, and with that right it thankfully provides an insight into the mentality of those who seem to have a negative mission. Character assassination is their tool choice but your scroll button will provide sanctuary.
The pitch of the caterwauling over Trig’s Mom is a true indication of the fear and loathing that exists in some for the democratic process.
The polarization of partisanship politics shifting from that, which once was a stabilizing and moderating process of compromise, is now approaching critical mass. A simple examination of the contrasts of the last two POTUS provides the proof. Love/hate by the news media, a white/black racial component of trust, a nationalistic/cosmopolitan approach to foreign affairs, a degree of interpretive flexibility as a component in judicial matters, vast differences in the issue of the overlook/oversight/oversee governmental role in economic matters, and a significant difference in secular interpretation. Virtually none of the these contrasts are inherently political, they are instead aspects of the technological shift in communications, manifestations of the disintegration of the nuclear family, an abandonment of the Judeo-Christian institutional structure, and a shift to the perpetuation mentality of the franchised fueled by graft and corruption.
To the detriment of our great nation these cultural processes are ammunition in the war of identity politics. The two-party system is becoming for most, “none of the above.”
The poles of partisanship are increasingly distant and the dissonance is becoming shriller and consuming, the upside to this is that percentage of those participating in the demonizing is diminishing. The R’s and the D’s are becoming increasingly disillusioned and the I’s (officially to be named later) are increasing.
Contrary to the partisan propaganda provided most Americans are decent and intelligent, placing faith in a Creator, their government, and their fellow citizens.
For example a simple examination of the life and times of the lady from Alaska is all the “identity” I need to give her my support. We desperately need a head of state with values that are above the body politic. The titular heads of “national” R’s and D’s have consistently proven they are not capable of participating in the selection process. There is nothing beneficial to our “Nation” in either the process or the candidates they provide.
I sincerely hope that we can pull our country back from the fringes via the ballot box; my take, give me the middle and give me Sarah Palin.

Bob| 7.28.09 @ 10:01AM

Well, it seems the response to factual information on this board is hatred. For those of you who don't want to be called "homophobe's", don't worry about it. This is America. You have a right to your beliefs. But think of it this way -- how many of your close friends are homosexuals? How many homosexuals do you really know?

Lynn, I love you, too.

Mark, yes, I understand that we all want some governmental restrictions -- and that is an excellent retort to my logic. But I don't take a religious view of those restrictions, I take a pragmatic view. I look for factual information. There is absolutely no evidence that same sex marriage hurts a society. We still have the highest divorce rate of any country -- much higher than the 8 or so countries that allow same sex marriage. There is evidence that if someone doesn't heed a red light they will cause accidents, however. We will disagree on the abortion issue because many of us see the fetus, in its initial stages as just a group of cells. Scientifically, doesn't human life begin before fertilization? Aren't you against IVF where fertilized embryos are created and destroyed? You are never going to convince me using your religious beliefs.

As far as Obama's spending, I have consistently argued against his, and for that matter, Bush's, TARP and stimulus spending. You right wing ideologues don't want to believe that you can be a fiscal conservative and a social libertarian. I understand that -- it requires a lack of intellectual heft.

Jon| 7.28.09 @ 10:13AM

Wow...Weird Al lives on. Song lyrics, gay marriage, abortion...wasn't this article about Sean Parnell, Sarah Palin's successor?

Note to Bob - abortion stops a beating heart. The last time I checked, murder was illegal on the federal level, in all 50 states and all U.S. possessions. Oh, you can couch the issue in "choice" and "Uncle Sam got no right to tell ME what to do," but the bottom line now in the abortion debate is the same as it's always been: Do you, or do you not, support the murder of unborn children? Hey, here's a choice: If you don't want children, maybe you ought to a) take a pill; or b) keep your britches on. Is that "revolutionary" or what?

Regarding Parnell, I guess we'll see just what kind of Republican he is - a conservative, as he advertises, or a RINO. Either way, Palin's legacy of reform during her tenure is beyond reproach.

Jon| 7.28.09 @ 10:24AM

Bob - in fact, there IS factual evidence suggesting that homosexual partnerships are harmful to society, insofar as they are upsetting to the natural familial order of one father and one mother. Children in homosexual households indeed do exhibit abnormalities, in terms of sexual atitudes and behaviors. A University of Southern California study that examined 21 earlier studies of the effects of homosexual couples on children between 1981 and 1998 found:

* Young girls raised by lesbians are more likely to be sexually adventurous and active than their counterparts raised by heterosexual parents (and more promiscuity, we know, leads to more STDs, unwanted pregnancies, etc. - not good for society as a whole);

* Lesbian mothers reported that their children behave in ways that do not conform to "sex-typed cultural norms." And the sons of lesbians are reportedly less likely to behave in traditionally masculine ways than those raised by heterosexual couples;

*A significantly greater proportion of young adult children raised by lesbian mothers than those raised by heterosexual mothers say they have experienced sexual intimacy with a partner of the same sex, even if they were not, however, statistically more likely to identify themselves as gay or lesbian.

By the way, "right wing ideologue" is a label; conservatism is a lifestyle choice. There is a difference.

Bob| 7.28.09 @ 10:57AM

Jon, the results of a micro study does not affirm a macro effect -- and you should know that. For example, you assume that girls who were raised by lesbians will get more STD's, pregnancies, etc., but you don't have information that lesbians may be better teachers of sexual safety in teaching protection, contraception, etc. Your link has not been proved.

The fact that sons of lesbians may have a slightly lesser tendency to be "real men" (which is a bias in itself) may have something to do with genetics.

Lastly, you said yourself that children of lesbian mothers were not more likely to identify themselves as gay or lesbian which means that probably genetics, and not nurturing, is the overriding factor.

But none of these, unless you are a total prude, have a negative effect on society as a whole in terms of crime rate, productivity, etc., the real macro measures of a society.

And let me get this straight, conservatism is a "lifestyle choice" and not an "ideology"? Are you saying that fiscal conservatism is a "lifestyle choice"? It is only a "lifestyle choice" if you are a religious social conservative. In a secular world, it is clearly an ideology.

And Jon, perhaps if you grew up in a poor, black neighborhood like I did, your views on abortion would be quite different. How many crack babies have you adopted lately?

Jon| 7.28.09 @ 12:06PM

Bob -

Actually, the study I cited was far from a "micro study." In fact, it examined the data from nearly two dozen previous studies on the same subject; hardly a small feat, given that the issue most likely is anything but over-studied.

You were a little too free with the term "bias" for my taste, and in tossing it out there you sound perilously like a left-wing shill, rather than a free-thinker. Truth isn't "biased," it is simply truth, and the truth is, the study I cited came to truthful conclusions about the subject matter.

Let me ask you this - if there are documentable changes in personal behavior and other tangibles that comprise a one's actions and thought patterns as they relate to the conditions in which they were raised as a child, how do you know those conditions are not detrimental to the macro measures of society? Who has studied that aspect?

For instance, you would be hard-pressed to convince me that a girl growing up in a lesbian household, or a boy growing up in a gay environment, would not suffer any physical, emotional or psychological issues, even in the most "tolerant" of communities, simply because gay and lesbian behavior is not within the accepted definition of "normal sexual behavior," defined as interaction between a man and a woman (husband and wife). So with that in mind, it would absurd to assert that in adulthood, none of these children would have social, behavioral or psychological issues to deal with that would interfere with and affect work productivity, marriage, the crime rate, etc.

And yes, you have to choose to be conservative - socially, fiscally and otherwise - and live your life accordingly. Your belief system is only half the equation; you have to live your beliefs, not just mouth them when it suits you. Ideology alone - left or right - is the sum of a core set of beliefs and life experiences, but living those beliefs and life experiences is an irreplaceable part of who we are. Otherwise, we're just hypocrites.

Finally, please don't make the "I grew up in a worse place than you did" argument, because by making such statements you automatically assume things about me and my life experiences for which you know nothing about.

For the record - and not that it necessarily makes any difference - but no, I did not grow up in a poor black neighborhood, I did, however, as a young adult just starting out in life, live in a poor white neighborhood. And, in a prior professional life, I've witnessed the sad, tragic effects certain drugs and other lifestyles have on certain communities. I agree with your general premise that life experiences tend to shape a person's core values and beliefs, and that there is a certain realism involved concerned issues like you raise regarding abortion. I'm not naive. But I am a believer in what is right and what is wrong, and there is no compromising human life. Anyone who thinks so should first be grateful their own mother didn't share their opinion.

I'm not sure how many crack babies you have adopted because I don't know you, but if you have, God bless you. If you haven't, using the rhetorical question to try to make your argument was as pointless as it was ineffective.

It doesn't matter how many crack babies I've adopted or anyone has adopted - what matters is that it is far better for us as a society to care for these babies than kill them because no matter how they came into this world, it is never their fault. Aborting them, however, automatically sends the message to society that being conceived IS their fault and, worse, that they should pay for it with their lives, while the adult making the choice - however clouded by drug abuse - is free to continue self-destructive habits and themselves become the very drain on society a pragmatist such as yourself shuns.

I can only hope you see the difference.

Jackson| 7.28.09 @ 1:23PM

Bob, you're a wealthy Jewish businessman who graduated from Harvard and have live a charmed life: How many babies have YOU adopted in your lifetime? Have you ever just once looked outside your little self absorbed bubble to help others?

Most likely not; liberals like you are notoriously tight-fisted and selfish.

Lynn| 7.28.09 @ 1:28PM

Of course you love me, Bob; we're both girls.

Bob| 7.28.09 @ 1:29PM

Jon -- the summation of micro results still results in micro conclusions. Macro measures are quite different. Macro measures might be things like divorce rates, percentage of people arrested who are from same sex homes, etc. If you've had any background in research, you'd understand the difference.

Let me give you an economic example on tax cuts. On a micro level you'd make the argument that if you put more money into the hands of individuals and companies, they would use that money to help the economy and thus tax cuts should be stimulative. But if you look at the macro data, you don't find that is true because you don't see a rise in GDP when you have significant tax cuts. There are lots of reasons for this, but it seems like a major factor is that company growth is more related to opportunities than capital. Furthermore, if spending is also not reduced, debt is increased and more money goes to interest payments.

For a societal view, you must look at macro measures, not micro studies. That's why you compare countries with different policies and compare results. Your studies also do not include other factors like the lower crime rate and increased educational levels for same sex households. That's the problem with microstudies -- they don't take into account all, or even most, of the factors.

My point about poor neighborhoods is that the pregnancy rate is much higher, drugs are much more prevalent, and people don't use contraception as much. Thus, during the first weeks of pregnancy, I just don't have a problem with abortion. You seem to have a white, Christian/puritanical view of society, and not one that takes into account other parts of society.

As a drain on society, I certainly agree that abortions should be reduced. But you can't do it by just believing and as a pragmatist, I must look at other methods as well.

The crack baby comment was basically there to emphasize the point that people who believe as you do, for the most part, don't follow through on your beliefs. You should be willing to adopt poor, black, crack babies to save them and give them better lives. Right? If you aren't willing to do that, are your beliefs really that strong? You should also be against IVF. Right?

It's nice to talk about what society SHOULD do, but if you are promoting that, you should also be living it PERSONALLY. Right?

We grew up with different backgrounds. I grew up in neighborhoods with crime, gangs, drugs, where more than half of the high school girls became pregnant before graduation. I saw the effect, generation after generation, of what having babies and not pursuing an education does to society. Yes, my beliefs are different because I grew up in that real world. However, since we didn't have much money, I started working when I was young, left home at 15, and attended college and graduate school on my own dime. I know the value of money and am a rather extreme fiscal conservative.

I only hope that you can open up your mind to other cultures and experiences. We all agree abortion should be minimized -- but what we do in the meantime is the question. You can't stop it through abstinence -- it doesn't work on a macro basis.

Bob| 7.28.09 @ 1:37PM

Jackson -- first of all, I am much more of a libertarian than a liberal -- and fiscally, I am quite conservative as you inadvertently stated. Have I adopted any babies? No, but then again, I do not share your beliefs. However, there are several causes for which I have donated my time and money including rape groups and feeding the hungry. Furthermore, I was the primary coordinator for United Way in a number of the companies in which I was employed. Could I have done more? Certainly. But if I really believed in an anti-abortion platform and did nothing personally to support it, I'd question my commitment.

Lynn, even though you have a hang up with sex, I still love you....

Mark| 7.28.09 @ 2:37PM

Bob,

Just a few points:

I believe that same sex marriage is immoral, but that is not the only thing I find immoral (disclaimer-many of the things I find immoral are things that I do routinely). I also do not think that the state should criminalize all immoral acts, and one of the things that I think should not be criminalized is homosexuality. I also believe that the state should protect homosexuals whose civil rights are violated, rights that include cohabitation. But I also do not think the courts should create a new right to homosexual marriage which, as I said in my previous post, is a legal fiction. Even the ancient Greeks, who were by no means homophobes, did not indulge in same sex marriage. My objection to same sex marriage does not hinge on divorce rates, either in the U.S. or elsewhere.

Scientifically, a human life distinct from the mother and father is created when the sperm fertilizes the egg. That new life has a different genetic code than the mother and father. If not impeded, this “clump of cells” develops and matures without any direction from the mother. For example, an expectant mother does not have to wish that the fetus develops a brain or a central nervous system in order for that development to occur. This is basic biology and has nothing to with religious beliefs. As I stated in the previous post, anyone with a modicum of intellectual integrity cannot dispute the biology. What one can dispute is whether such a human being is worthy of protection. One of the basic functions of any state is to protect the weak and innocent from the strong who would take advantage of their strength to subjugate the weak. If we can’t even attempt to do this we are in a sad state.

I am against the creation of human embryos for the sake of their destruction for the reason I state above

While I am a Catholic, I supported pro-life policies at a time when I fell away from the Faith and was basically an atheist. There are atheists, such as Nat Hentoff, who deny God’s existence and nonetheless are pro-life. Natural law should cause us to hesitate when we consider the deliberate killing of innocent life, no matter how utilitarian that death may be.

Thank you for your time in answering my initial post.

Jackson| 7.28.09 @ 2:48PM

Bob, you're the one who has the closed mind: You pick and choose those worthy of your compassion. I guess you could say you have a litmus test people must pass in order to garner your care and concern.

That's where we differ, Bob. I believe EVERYBODY has the right to life; not just those who pass my worthiness test. I will leave judgment up to God--it's above my pay grade.

Jon| 7.28.09 @ 3:03PM

Bob, I appreciate your comments. Thoughtful and measured, even if we will have to agree to disagree on some key points.

Bob| 7.28.09 @ 3:28PM

Mark, if it is not religion that makes you believe that same sex marriage is immoral, what is it? Remember that marriage did not become a sacrament until about the 15th century. Before that, it was simply a way of defining lineage and heirs for the disposition of property. In fact, polygamy was quite rampant in ancient times among the rich. Thus, the moral argument didn't arrive until rather recent times. Same sex marriage, from a public standpoint, is also about decision making and the heirship of owned goods. It is thus a very practical legal remedy for people who are genetically disposed to those of the same sex. I cannot find the logic to support any other contention nor do I find the macro statistics to prove otherwise. Thus, even though I and my children are in hetero marriages, I am not going to restrict the behavior/rights of others.

You certainly have a right to be pro-life. But I object to you limiting other peoples lives because of it. I don't want to stop your PERSONAL way to live YOUR life, just as you shouldn't want to stop others from living THEIR lives the way they believe. Neither action hurts one another as far as any macro evidence shows. I may try to convince you to do otherwise, but I won't pass laws to force you to adhere to my beliefs. I always favor personal will and choice to laws that restrict.

Jackson, I chose causes to support based on my life experiences. We cannot support all the worthy causes. The problem I have with you and others who hold the pro-live position is that if it were really that important to YOU, you would act upon those beliefs though adoption of the neediest children. So, yes, I do believe how you live your life in actions to other people show your true beliefs. That is NOT above my pay grade.

Jon, the reason I post at AmSpec is that I would like to see the Republican party drop its social conservative platform which I see as limiting what this country needs -- true fiscal conservatism. I don't believe that religious beliefs should be part of a secular political party platform.

Jon| 7.28.09 @ 3:59PM

Bob -

I happen to think the Republican Party's problems rest solely with the fact that the leadership has abandoned the very social *and* fiscal conservatism that it once had. In many respects GOP platforms today differ only slightly, if at all, from those of the Democrats and liberals, causing enough truely conservative Americans to abandon the party as a lost cause, thereby leading to election losses.

The country is mostly conservative - that's just true, according to various polls and surveys - so without clear distinctions and choices, the party that used to stand for social and fiscal conservatism has lost much of its base and support.

I understand what it is you say you believe, but considering our foundational framework of laws were based on Christian faith and principles - and we grew successful based on them - it seems logical to continue that path of success.

Jackson| 7.28.09 @ 4:37PM

Point is, Bob, you DON'T know what I've done to help others. Your judgment of me is as arrogant as the judgment you make of babies in the womb.

And there lies the difference between fascist social engineers such as yourself and me--I don't presume to decide who deserves to live and who deserves to die. No matter how you try to cloak your cruelty, the ugliness of your intolerance is plain to see.

What goes around, comes around; someday it will be your turn to face the grim reality you monsters have created.

Mark| 7.28.09 @ 6:03PM

Bob,

You are incorrect when you state that marriage did not become a sacrament until the 15th century. I assume you are alluding to the Council of Florence (1438-1445) which stated that Matrimony was a sacrament. This was stated in the Bull of Union with the Armenians who were seeking to enter into communion with the Catholic Church. The bull lists all seven sacraments: no one could seriously claim that the Church was without of the Sacraments of the Eucharist and Orders for over 1400 years. Matrimony, along with the other six sacraments, were listed because the Armenians has to assent to their belief in the sacraments (as well as other things) before they were reunited with the Church.

There are a number of Church Fathers who attest to the fact that Matrimony is a sacrament. The earliest I could find at this time was from Tertullian, who lived from around 160-220. St. Augustine (354–430) wrote: "In marriage, however, let the blessings of marriage be loved: offspring, fidelity, and the sacramental bond. . . . " (Adulterous Marriages, 1:17:19).

If homosexual marriage is primarily about decision making and the ownership of goods, this can be accomplished without marriage. Contracts can be signed by two (or more) parties that can delineate rights and obligations. Therefore, there is no legal impediment that prevents homosexuals from bequeathing their goods to their lovers. As far as genetics causing homosexuality, I don’t think there is any definitive proof of that, but not being a biologist I could be wrong.

As far as my views on marriage being based on my religion, why does that disqualify or impair my view? I don’t understand why religious views place one outside the public square on issues.

Your statement about allowing people to live their lives as they see fit has a glaring omission: those who are killed during abortion. Again, what is killed during an abortion is a human being and this is not a view held exclusively by religious people. It is held by anyone who has a rudimentary understanding of human biology. I don’t see how attempting to outlaw abortion will limit people any more than laws against stealing limit them. Despite your statement, you do not always favor personal will and choice to laws that restrict. Moral relativism is unworkable because a true moral relativist would not be able to propose moral relativism as a superior system.

If for some reason there was no law against murder and you recognized through your religious convictions and/or your application of natural law that murder was immoral, wouldn’t you feel compelled to try to enact legislation criminalizing murder? Wouldn’t you characterize someone who felt that way but did nothing about it as a moral coward?

Not sure how this relates to the article on Sarah Palin. Thank you again for your previous response.

Bob| 7.28.09 @ 6:13PM

Jon, actually, you should re-read the Republican Party platform. It is very little different from what it was when Reagan was President. Regarding fiscal conservatism, I would claim that even in the time of Reagan, we didn't see true fiscal conservatism. Letting the debt grow as much as both Reagan and Bush is NOT fiscal conservatism. Cutting spending (something neither Republicans or Democrats do) would be fiscally conservative. Here's a chart that shows federal spending over time:

http://www.heritage.org/research/features/budgetChartbook/Federal-spending-increased-steadily-regardless-of-congressional-leadership.aspx

The interesting thing is that spending has actually grown faster for Republicans than Democrats except for Obama -- and I do have a problem with Obama's spending.

Regarding social conservatism, I'd have to say the party has a higher percentage of social conservatives than at any time in history. This is one of the reasons the party is smaller than it has ever been in modern times.

Also, be careful about your definition of "conservative". I consider myself "conservative" but you would not call me one because of my social views.

Regarding what makes America great, I would claim it is not "Christian" faith and principles. All western European countries are based on Christian faith and principles and we have surpassed all of them. Why, because of a fundamental survival instinct and our creativity and mix of cultures. We reward enterprise and it has served us well. That has little to do with the Christian faith.

Jackson -- you've judged me even more than I've judged you so by your logic, you are even more arrogant than me. It is not up to me to decide who deserves to live or die -- it is for the people directly involved. Your intolerance of other people's views is, by far, true intolerance. I can tolerate your views, but you cannot tolerate mine.

It's funny that you call someone who values your right to believe what you want and live your life the way you want fascist. It is far truer to call you intolerant believers the true fascists.

So please don't try and force your religious views on me.

Bob| 7.28.09 @ 6:22PM

Mark -- there is a difference between religious marriage and civil marriage. From a civil standpoint, marriage is just a contract between two individuals. I would certainly be happy of religious marriage was called "marriage" and civil marriage was called a "union". Once you have a contract that confers all of the legal benefits of marriage between two individuals, you have, de facto, a marriage no matter what you prefer to call it. We get into this semantic/religious argument. But if you just want a contract that confers the same benefits, that works for me as well. From a secular standpoint, I don't care what you call it.

We are just not going to agree on the abortion issue. But of course, that causes all of you to call me a "RINO" and "libtard" and "elitist". Well, I'm proud of the RINO title and I worked hard to get the education to become an elitist. No apologies from me.

Jackson| 7.28.09 @ 7:28PM

I'm not the one who presumes to judge who has the right to live--that's you, Bob. I call you a fascist because you have much in common with your old buddy, Adolf.

Birds of a feather ....

Nick| 7.28.09 @ 8:06PM

Bob,

Why are you still commenting on anything, let alone on Sarah Palin again?

For those who dont' know, Bob, until recently, thought blacks had 3/5 of a vote under the U.S. Constitution, as originally written.

Also, he doesn't know when human life begins, scientifically, because he doesn't know when "ensoulment" happens.

Bob is a pseudointellectual who was indoctrinated at Harvard. He doesn't deserve your well thought-out arguments in an honest debate.

Missy| 7.28.09 @ 9:34PM

Bob's also a liar who pretends to be a RINO. Don't believe him: He regularly worships at the altar of Obama and he's got the worn out knee-pads to prove it.

Hookers and Gin| 7.28.09 @ 10:29PM

Lets hope he doesn't also give up a couple years into office!

lynnrockets| 8.3.09 @ 5:50PM

Is she gone yet?

lv outlet| 4.29.10 @ 3:27AM

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