The Nation's Pulse
The Consequences of the Culture of Death
Reflections after the murder of George Tiller.
The culture of death continues to claim victims, this time abortionist George Tiller. The tragedy of his murder is compounded by the obvious contradiction of someone killing him in the name of life. Perhaps it should not surprise that murder is seen as the answer in a society which devalues life.
Protecting life is the foundation for a republic such as our own. Indeed, the most fundamental liberty is to life itself.
Tiller’s murder obviously violates both a commitment to life and the rule of law. No free society can survive if its members believe themselves authorized to mete out their personal version of justice on others.
The murder has turned Tiller into a martyr to some yet, ironically, his lifework was death. Celebrated by the Center for Reproductive Rights as “a stalwart and fearless defender of women’s fundamental health and rights,” Tiller was known for performing partial birth abortions. That often meant delivering and then killing a fetus well past “viability,” that is, the ability to survive on its own.
There’s no doubt that the circumstances of many of those seeking abortions are difficult. Nor can any defender of liberty feel comfortable advocating government intrusion in such a personal matter as childbirth.
Yet a baby is not the property of his or her mother. Few people disagree that children have the full right to life like adults. Moreover, the moment of birth makes no difference in the moral value of life. Even some abortion advocates are uncomfortable with the brutality of many late term abortions, of which the late Sen. Daniel Patrick Moynihan said “This is too close to infanticide.”
Nevertheless, “viability” should have no more moral significant than birth. Once formed, every human life is unique. That death is presented as the preferred option for “unwanted” children is bizarre. With families desperate to adopt, how can one advocate killing babies as a solution?
The strongest argument for not restricting abortion is personal liberty. Yet liberty always has been constrained when another person is involved. Especially when the other person exists only because of one’s free choice.
Abortion is not a matter of choice, but an attempt to flee from responsibility. Other than in the case of rape, pregnancy results from the decision to have sex, freely made. People are, rightly, legally free to have sex with whomever they desire whenever they desire. That being the case, they also should be held responsible for the consequences of their decisions. One of those consequences is a baby.
One can argue about the appropriate responsibility of putative parents for their child. But surely they cannot argue that, having freely brought a life into being, they have an untrammeled right to snuff it out. Yet that is the position of the far precincts of the “pro-choice” movement.
Indeed, some see abortion as a positive good. Consider the “National Day of Appreciation for Abortion Providers,” celebrated last March 10. As people, including the young, have turned against abortion — a recent poll showed a pro-life majority — Katha Pollitt of the Nation declared: abortion providers could “use some love.” If only they showed a little love to the most helpless among us.
Pro-abortion forces now dominate the White House, Congress, the courts, and the media. Indeed, this is the most extreme administration since Roe v. Wade — in contrast to such leading Democrats as Richard Gephardt, Al Gore, and Bill Clinton, in running for president Barack Obama didn’t have to flip-flop away from any earlier pro-life votes or decisions. Yet abortion advocates remain on the defensive, angry that social disapproval leads so many medical professionals to refuse to provide and even to learn how to provide abortions.
So we see the demand not just for the right to abortion, including essentially up to the day of birth. We also see the demand to force medical students to learn and hospitals to provide abortion. And for pharmacies to provide abortifacients. Freedom of conscience is twisted to mean the denial of freedom of conscience. As a result, the Obama administration, despite the president’s eloquent appeal to find “common ground,” is rolling back the Bush administration rule protecting health care workers who refuse to participate in abortion. Sen. Patty Murray (D-Wash.) complained: “It threatens the health and well-being of women and the rights of patients across the country.” In her view, apparently, women not only have a right to get an abortion, but to force doctors to provide an abortion.
Although federal institutions are firmly under the control of abortion advocates, many states are not. So the battle there continues, with state governments declaring the unborn to be persons and requiring that pregnant women be informed of fetal development and view ultrasounds of their babies. Opponents complain of “emotional blackmail,” but surely women should be aware that it is a life they are ending before they choose to abort their unborn children. Thus, congressional abortion proponents, backed by the administration, are pushing the so-called “Freedom of Choice Act” to override state restrictions on abortion.
President Obama’s policies are resolutely pro-abortion, but at least he does what many of his backers refuse to do: extend a “presumption of good faith” to those who oppose abortion and “honor the conscience of those who disagree with abortion.” Indeed, admitted the president, “abortion is never a good thing.” In contrast, many abortion activists are angered that anyone would make a moral judgment about abortion. A live baby. A dead baby. What’s the difference, they seem to ask?
About the Author
Doug Bandow is a senior fellow at the Cato Institute. A former Special Assistant to President Ronald Reagan, he is the author and editor of several books, including The Politics of Plunder: Misgovernment in Washington (Transaction).
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Darin| 6.29.09 @ 7:30AM
When the government does not protect the most helpless among us, to whom do you turn? In fact, when the government CONDONES killing the most helpless among us, what do you do?
Is it wrong to stop someone from killing people? No. In fact, I would argue it's a moral obligation. That said, how you go about it does matter. The end does not justify the means.
With apologies to his families. Dr. Tiller was a monster. I'd put him in the same category of Joseph Mengele. Someone who would knowingly destroy innocent human life is a monster. Someone who does so repeatedly and for profit is evil. Abortion by definition declares that some people are "less than human" and thus afforded fewer human rights. It's no different than slavery. If you can justify abortion, you can't say slavery was or is wrong. In fact, abortion is worse because it does not discriminate based on race.
Melvin| 6.29.09 @ 8:13AM
Tiller was a monster that deserved to be stopped. For a civilized society to tolerate the actions of this man is incomprehensible.
As a society have we become so callous and unfeeling that we condone the chosen profession of this barbaric man.
Why is it that we give the lower species more of a chance at life and the sanctity of living, but we don't do it to ourselves?
Do I condone the murder of this man? No, but neither do I mourn his passing.
JP| 6.29.09 @ 8:34AM
Melvin,
I'm not sure what is more disgusting, an abortionist who makes a fortune murdering children, or the society that tolerates it? Remember, Dr Tiller operated within state laws written and passed by politicians who were elected by the "people". The Supreme Court has had 36 years to correct Roe; the GOP has, since Roe, nominated 8 Justices to the high court. Who are the barbarians?
KyMouse| 6.29.09 @ 8:53AM
The language of the culture of death is such a big part of the deception that lulls us into apathy. The mere fact that pro-abortion people use terms such as "abortion provider" and "abortion doctor" instead of the simpler "abortionist" shows me that they know deep inside that they're talking about a dirty business. They think that prettifying the word will sanitize it. It won't, ever.
I volunteer in the emergency room at my city's largest public hospital; one day, I was carrying a specimen of something to the lab. As I filled out the specimen log in the lab, I saw that the pint-sized contained of bloody fluid with small chunks of gray flesh in it had been labeled by a nurse "product of conception." Now, there's a euphemism for you!
The mother who was brought to the ER after a botched abortion deserved support during her pregnancy, and her baby deserved a loving home -- if not with her, with someone else. Instead, she got a nightmare that will haunt her forever, and her baby ended up dehumanized and incinerated.
That experience helped inspire me to join the pro-life movement. My constant refrain is this: Every woman deserves better than abortion, and every child deserves a chance.
Louis Jenkins| 6.29.09 @ 9:04AM
Tiller lived by the sword, likewise he died by the same.
John W.| 6.29.09 @ 9:14AM
"Few people disagree that children have the full right to life like adults. " Unfortunately, that is precisely what the abortion industry, and its philosphical "leader," Peter Singer, do believe.
JG| 6.29.09 @ 9:32AM
"That death is presented as the preferred option for "unwanted" children is bizarre."
What else can you say?
Marc Jeric| 6.29.09 @ 9:51AM
The so-called pro-choice band is really a cult of death. With the sex education widely practiced in our schols and the availability of condom and pills on every drug counter there is no excuse for getting careless, except in cases of rape or incest. It should also be noted that our abortion mills are by far the best business. Dr. Tiller cleared in 30 years of "practice" about $100 million after taxes. Howard Dean became multimillionaire with his string of abortion mills in Vermont. Planned Parenthood is swimming in millions. Finally, when exactly the fetus becomes a human being with the associated rights? At 9 months+one day? Or 9 months - one day? Has the ACLU taken a position on this question? Well, yes - no human rights for aborted fetuses at any time in their brief life.
melvin| 6.29.09 @ 9:59AM
Excellent point JP
Tony in Central PA| 6.29.09 @ 10:14AM
I recently saw a calculation based of the amount of money Tiller made from late term abortions. The basic formula was : ( cost per abortion X average number of abortions per year X number of years in practice ) - ( office overhead per year X number of years in practice ).
Using a conservative overhead figure, it worked out close to one hundred million dollars, in part due to Tiller's long career as an abortionist.
I was astonished at the possible income Tiller may well have received. I had overlooked the very lucrative " blood money " aspect of abortion and the fact that it really is an industry in this country. I wonder how many MD's who aren't particularly capable end up becoming abortionists for the money ?
scot| 6.29.09 @ 10:27AM
Do we no longer believe in the saying, "Sacrificing the few for the many"? This is what this country is founded on, ultimately called Justice! We sentence murderers to death on this principles as well has fight wars to protect liberty all on this principle. Why not hold to in in defense of our unborn?
It should be done by law by the elected officials not vigilantes. This is where we have been failed.
Mike| 6.29.09 @ 10:31AM
This was a thoughtful article.
A few observations: (1) Mr. Bandow writes: "Perhaps it should not surprise that murder is seen as the answer in a society which devalues life. " True. Abortionist and murderer are essentially synonymous. In the case of those who condone the latter with faint protests to the contrary, all that separates the two may be hypocrisy. Is it life or ideology that is truly important to the latter? (2) Further, Mr. Bandow writes: " With families desperate to adopt, how can one advocate killing babies as a solution?" Why are there so many babies who have yet to be adopted? Why aren't more older children adopted? Why so many adoptions from over-seas?
(3) And, "That being the case, they also should be held responsible for the consequences of their decisions. One of those consequences is a baby." Now we are at the heart of what motivates some - the desire punish. You play, you pay. Why do some who shout loudly for holding others responsible for their actions work so hard to thwart others from being responsible? Why work to deny others birth control or sex education that includes, yes, abstinence education? (4) Want to see another dimension of our culture of death? Read about the insurance industry's practice of rescission. Beyond bankruptcy, there is no denying the practice leads to death, yet many who proclaim loudly for life, defend markets and oppose regulation. Profits before people - part of our culture of death. (5) Is anyone naive enough to believe that ending legal abortion will end abortion? Abortion will be driven under ground and the inevitable consequence will be death. Just punishment for those who transgress the morality of those who proclaim loudly for life?
Liberal Reader| 6.29.09 @ 10:39AM
I am a pro-life liberal. My own sense is that the abortion issue is changing in America.
A combination of increased religious activity is certainly influencing the numbers.
However, there is an ironically different force that is causing many to reconsider their stance on abortion: science.
The more we learn about the development of the fetus and the role of genetics in the overall development of the human being, the more difficult it is to find a dividing line from an indistinct conglommerate of cells and a human being.
In my view, pro-lifers should continue to work for changes in the law, but they should also see that moral AND scientific persuasion is the likeliest way to change people hearts when it comes to this issue.
I assure you, calling people "baby killers" doesn't help, and is its own kind of death culture.
Old Texican| 6.29.09 @ 11:08AM
Well BOTH Mr. Tiller and his killer have met their Maker.
He certainly has Pronounced Justice, tempered with mercy....perfectly.
Big Leo| 6.29.09 @ 11:43AM
Forty years ago, when I was a lowly Deputy Sheriff, we had a description of a lot of the murders we encountered--"Live freaky, die freaky." While there is no justification, legal or moral, for murdering someone except in defense of yourself or your neighbors, there is no surprise when someone who made legal murder the meaning of his life becomes the victim of an illegal murder by someone who is driven mad by the horror of what the good doctor did. The indignation is best put thusly, "Who would have thought that someone who morally outraged hundreds of millions of Americans would eventually enrage one nutty enough to kill him?" Sorry-- it was inevitable.
Paul| 6.29.09 @ 12:33PM
The tragedy of his murder? If his death was a tragedy, then so is the death of any other serial killer. Tiller was hardly in a position to claim a right to his own life when he had no qualms about taking the lives of others. I'm just thankful that his killing spree was brought to a sudden, if violent, end.
Wal| 6.29.09 @ 3:17PM
Dr Tiller was not murdered, it was very late abortion.
Gill O’Teen ✝✡| 6.29.09 @ 3:18PM
Oh Boo hoo. There. Now I’ve satisfied my outrage over killer-tiller’s death which came about 30 years and 60,000 children too late.
Gill O’Teen ✝✡| 6.29.09 @ 4:08PM
Abdulhakim Mujahid Muhammad, an Islamic terrorist known as Carlos Bledsoe before he converted to the Religion of Peace, murdered Pvt. William Long in Arkansas about the same time killer-tiller met his deserved fate. Where is the outrage over that. I guess murder is acceptable if the victim is a defenseless child or the killer advocates for Allah.
WR Jonas | 6.29.09 @ 5:29PM
Dr. Tiller was a mass murderer and what he did is despicable to almost every reasonable human being except liberals. They are the smartest and most progressive, they continually tell us, and we should acknowledge their enlightened perceptions.
That act has gotten so ridiculous that it is beyond madness . Yet .their self delusion continues and at some point it will lead to real trouble .
Tiller was an agent of Satan and his fate is foretold. " Those who believe are saved and those who refuse to accept Jesus are already condemned.
I suspect the Doctor is getting a warm reception.
KyMouse| 6.29.09 @ 5:37PM
Mike,
(1) Sometimes people in any conflict put ideology above life. As far as I know, every legitimate pro-life group has sincerely denounced Tiller's murder (and it was murder). But it is also truthful to point out that the babies whom Tiller killed were absolutely innocent of any wrongdoing, and I don't think that can be said of Tiller. As a Christian, I loathed what he did for a living (an ironic term in his case), but I would have liked to have seen him repent and devote himself to the pro-life movement, as some abortionists have done (Bernard Nathanson, M.D. for example).
(2) I'm all for adoption, but it seems to have become a terribly complex procedure in this country, so many people turn to other nations for available children. At least of the babies can be allowed to be born, they can have a chance at a good life. Abortion cancels all of their chances.
(3) Yes, there is often an air of "punishment" in some of this discussion. Some of it springs from exasperation, I think, over the ease with which folks "hook up" these days. There are several young folks in my own family who are shacking up, risking disease and pregnancy, no matter what us older folks say. To my mind, it's more about responsibility than about punishment -- a child in the womb has no chance if his mother chooses abortion. The great gospel singer and actress Ethel Waters was conceived when her mother was raped at knifepoint in a parking lot -- even children conceived in such horrifying circumstances deserve a chance, not capital punishment for their fathers' crimes. And incest? Abortion hides the crime of incest, almost guaranteeing that the abuse of the mother will continue. A recent study (by David Reardon) of women who became pregnant through rape/incest found that the overwhelming majority of them did NOT recommend abortion, insisting that it would be another act of violence.
(4) I think that's a more complicated issue than you do.
(5) In 1972, the year before Roe v. Wade, the CDC recorded only about three dozen maternal deaths after abortion. If Roe v. Wade were overturned, advances in medical care and antibiotics would probably reduce the number even further. Since Roe, more than 50 million babies have been aborted, and hundreds of mothers have died in legal abortion mills -- do a Google search of Lou Ann Herron and Synthia Dennard. Lou Ann bled to death in Arizona while her abortionist finished lunch; Synthia died after her abortionist severed an artery instead of a fallopian tube. (I've mention them in TAS comments before, but they deserve another mention.) Lots of practices continue even though they are against the law -- burglary, murder, etc. -- but that's no reason to make them legal. Abortion is a dirty business that hurts women and kills babies. I'll say it again -- every woman deserves better than abortion; every baby deserves a chance.
Rapnsum| 6.29.09 @ 6:24PM
MAAFA 21 a new documentary on Culture of Death: abortion and Black Genocide !
An incredible documentary that everyone must see.
If you think that slavery and racism is over, you will be shocked when you watch this well documented DVD exposing the racism that is still taking place within America. Maafa21 is a high quality documentary with incredible documentation – A MUST SEE for every African American !
MAAFA21 Watch Trailer at: www.maafa21.com
Mike| 6.29.09 @ 6:32PM
KyMouse,
Thank you for your comments. I agree with many. I think adoption has become more complex than necessary, but I don't believe this is the entire explanation for why so many American babies and young children are not adopted. I believe in personal responsibility and wish everybody would (could) be responsible. An issue for me is my own attitude towards those who are not. I am constantly reminding myself that it is not for me to judge. I would appreciate hearing more on the issue of rescission by private insurance companies. In what ways is it a more compliated issue? Also, what about the practice of cherry picking-- insuring the healthy and rejecting those with preexisting conditions?
Old Texican| 6.29.09 @ 6:35PM
Hey Rap (misspelling)
Black genocide: an escape from the hood...an escape from the ghetto...young black children impregnated with younger black children...and no daddy.
I don't need to see some documentary!
All these kids break our hearts....living or dead.
How many kids have you bastarded and walked away from?
If none... then tear me a new one. If so, then shut up and pay child support.
M| 6.29.09 @ 6:54PM
Mike, vis a vis adoption, there are not lots of babies available for adoption in the United States. While roughly 25% of U.S. pregnancies end in abortion, only 1% of infants are placed for adoption. There are babies and children in foster care, but most foster children who become available for adoption after parental rights have been severed are adopted by their foster parents. The foster children who have not been adopted by their foster parents and remain available for adoption are usually older and/or minorities. Given their troubled childhoods, it is normal for foster children to have some problems. Transracial adoption can still be an issue.
Attacking prospective parents for wanting to adopt babies and young children is a common tactic of some leftists (ironically, their promotion of single parenting and “family reunification” policies have helped hurt foster kids). But studies show infant adoption works best for the child. Moreover, there is nothing wrong or immoral with parents simply wanting to adopt the youngest child possible. Finally and importantly, prospective parents may not have the experience or parenting skills to deal with older or special needs children.
Parents adopt from overseas for several reasons. Most overseas adoptions are usually closed adoptions with no chance that the biological parent(s) will change their minds. In the past, the adoption process has often been quicker. In some countries it was possible to adopt infants and toddlers. However, overseas adoptions are becoming more and more difficult. Some countries are shutting down for a number of reasons, some of which, such as national prosperity, are very happy ones. I think there is now a 3-to-4 year wait for a healthy baby or toddler from China. It is also important to note that most countries are conservative in the requirements that they quite rightly set themselves for prospective parents. For example, most countries require adoptive parents to be married.
It will be interesting to see what effect a likely decline in the number of children available for adoption overseas will have on domestic adoption, particularly with open adoption now becoming the standard.
Vis a vis consequences, there’s a difference between consequences and punishment. Consequences can be positive or negative. Punishments are tacked onto negative consequences.
For example, if a student studies hard and earns an “A” on a test, that’s a consequence—a positive one. If a 5-year-old steals cookies from the cookie jar and gets a tummy ache, that’s a negative consequence—but not a punishment. Having to stand in the corner for 5 minutes for stealing the cookies would be the punishment.
Is a baby a punishment? If so, for whom?
Making the sea change decisions of how to care for a baby that the biological parent(s) do not want or cannot care for in the way they would wish is a very, very hard consequence. All the different ways that the biological parent(s) can take care of their baby, from parenting to adoption, involve sorrow and loss, whether it’s the loss of carefree teen years or the loss of the child to adoption. But these consequences can also bring inner peace and much joy. They are not punishments any more than the tummy ache.
I think we will move to accepting a social contract that says that in return for the sexual freedom we enjoy, we have the responsibility to carry any children created through voluntary sex to term and if we are unable or unwilling to care for them, to place them for adoption.
Seek| 6.29.09 @ 6:57PM
Does anyone seriously think that criminalizing abortion will end it? We did the same thing with alcohol during Prohibition -- to end Demon Alcohol, once and for all. It didn't work, needless to say.
Every country in the world that has criminalized abortion has wound up driving the practice underground, and with no apparent reductions. In the U.S. there were hundreds of thousands of abortions each year prior to Roe v. Wade.
We libertarians aren't "pro-abortion" -- just realistic. Are there any other realists on this site?
Ivor Gunn| 6.29.09 @ 8:31PM
Yeah yeah, I guess killing Doctor Tiller was wrong. We should have persuaded him of the error of his ways. It sets thje pro-life movement back. Murder cannot defend murder.
Blah blah.
Deep down, I suspect the majority of Americans are glad that a wicked man got put down for good.
Bill E. Bobb| 6.29.09 @ 10:24PM
Ivor Gunn sez: "Deep down, I suspect the majority of Americans are glad that a wicked man got put down for good."
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WR Jonas sez: "Dr. Tiller was a mass murderer and what he did is despicable to almost every reasonable human being except liberals."
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When there are those members of US society who can rationalize murder as legitimization of perceived societal grievances, then perhaps it is time to initiate preventative liquidation of those members of US society for the common good.
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Kind of like hunting becoming more of a sport when the animals have automatic weapons and can hunt the hunters. Makes the proposition a lot more sporting, don't you think? Put another way, what goes 'round comes 'round.
Abortion is fun| 6.29.09 @ 11:36PM
The culture of death continues to claim victims, this time abortionist George Tiller.
Then step back and take a deep breath and stop killing people pro "life" morons. Jesus, you guys are thick. Abortion never killed anyone. You guys do.
PIMP| 6.29.09 @ 11:40PM
Can God make a fetus so powerful it cannot be aborted? If no god is not omnipotent. If yes god hates children.
God is cruel.
Rufus Choate | 6.30.09 @ 12:01AM
Tiller's murder was wrong for the same reason his actions were wrong. The person committing the homicide was not sanctioned by the Law, normative Morality and Society to commit the act of just retribution. The intention of partial birth abortion was solely to circumvent the law to murder the viable child and was postulated by a lawyer not a medical specialist. Anyone who examines this procedure will immediate understand that it is objectively evil and that Tiller was a monster but he was a monster that was tolerated because of the moral ambiguity in our society and he need to be protected. His death was a crime as much as his life was.
Driving Abortion underground is hardly a concern to consider if it is a great moral evil. The Calculus of Felicity that the Libertine Libertarians always advocates is akin to keeping totalitarian death camps in operation to avoid the cost of transporting the inmates to freedom: Morally vile.
Fionnagh| 6.30.09 @ 12:27AM
To Seek, above: If abortion had not been available decades ago, but rather underground, I would now have two children instead of one. Criminalizing abortion won't end the practice, but it sure as hell will make many parents think long and hard before aborting their child. As for your argument that underground abortion showed no reduction in the practice, well, how would you or anyone else know if, indeed, the abortions are underground? Who would dare to supply reliable statistics?
Richard Baker| 6.30.09 @ 7:20AM
A friend of mine in North Carolina once referred to homosexuality as a "death-style". That same expression could be used to describe the death culture that thrives in the US. Yet, as a people, we act as if death should be legislated against for "safety". Talk about a dichotomy.
adaptune| 6.30.09 @ 11:10AM
Mr. Bandow,
As a fan of much of your writing, I'm sorry to learn that you're rabidly anti-abortion. To illustrate the absurdity of this position, consider the following: a woman of child-bearing age produces approximately one egg per month. Is it "murder" if she takes steps to ensure that the egg doesn't become fertilized, and thus dies? No, clearly not. A man produces about 100 million sperm per shot, and thank goodness the vast majority of these die without participating in procreation. Yet those eggs and those sperm are alive. Why is it not "murder" to dispose of them?
Suddenly, when a sperm touches an egg, we have a "human being" (or, alternately, a "baby"). So, if a petri dish contains 100 eggs, and a load of sperm is introduced, fertilizing all the eggs, then the contents of the dish are disposed of, we have "mass murder"??? What a load of nonsense!
Some reasonable case can be made that late-term abortions are immoral in a way that early abortions are not. But even then, we have a creature whose entire "life" has been inside a womb. I am unable to work up much emotion for that creature that in any matches the emotion I feel for, say, a child of six years whose life is snuffed out, or an adult who is killed.
But to anti-abortionists, the one-celled fertilized egg, the developed fetus in the womb, the six year old child, and the adult are one and the same. That view, in my mind, is incredibly twisted, and adherence to that view results in twisted policies for a society. Case in point: the evil human beings who celebrate the murder of Dr. Tiller, as represented in the comment section of this column.
Todd| 6.30.09 @ 12:23PM
adaptune,
Your argument is a load of crap and I think you must be a nihilist to say something that absurd. Your mind is incredibly twisted and perverse to refer to a late-term baby as a "creature". I am sure that is how Dr. Tiller rationalized it is his mind while making his millions by killing these babies, they were just "creatures" after all and he was doing these women a favor by getting rid of these unwanted "creatures". I don't know you but based on what you wrote, you are truly a despicable person who has been infected with a terrible case of moral relativism. I call that evil.
adaptune| 6.30.09 @ 2:12PM
Todd,
You might want to look up the meaning of a word before you spout off about it. The word "creature" has a definition which includes human beings (including fully sentient humans, which you and I agree are worthy of respect and protection) as well as "lower animals". Rather than reply to my points, you resort to profanity. Perhaps that's because your arguments are entirely empty, and guttural howls of rage are all you're able to manage? Pretty pathetic!
Todd| 6.30.09 @ 2:52PM
adaptune,
What profanity are you talking about? Because I said your argument about eggs and sperm is absurd and a bunch of crap that has nothing to do with anything? Let me further dissect your stupidity. You are taking the position that there is no difference between sperm and egg cells and 7 month developed babies that could live easily if born prematurely. That is what you call an absurd extreme argument that has no relevance whatsoever.
You also imply that a well developed fetus (I prefer baby) has no rights whatsoever and can be treated like garbage or waste to be disposed of however the women sees fit. If a baby is born prematurely, does it have no right whatsoever because it is not "fully developed"? Tell me exactly what the difference is between killing a baby at 7 months in the womb and killing a baby born two months prematurely? I guess in Dr. Tillers case he can make millions of dollars doing the former while anyone who did the latter is correctly referred to as a baby killer but there does not seem to be any difference to me but I guess I am not able to see the clear distinction of moral equivalence like you do.
Actually, calling you a creature is probably appropriate for someone with such a twisted mind that feels no emotion for the barbaric practice of partial birth abortion. Lower animals would have no emotions about the practice either.
Richard Baker| 6.30.09 @ 5:04PM
To all of you abortion aplogists: First, it was "lifeless protoplasm" then it was an unfeeling mass of tissue. Then it became MY RIGHT and now it's an argument about the status of the egg and sperm. Still, at the end of the day, a human being's life is extinguished for either convenience or willful laziness. At any rate, we're going to owe the Nazis and Margaret Sanger an apology, if this keeps on.
Angel| 6.30.09 @ 5:25PM
"A live baby, a dead baby--what's the difference?" Pretty much sums up the philosophy of many pr0-aborts.
Ugly beyond words to me.
joesixpack31| 6.30.09 @ 8:51PM
Very disappointing commentary by Doug Bandow. He fails to acknowledge that sometimes to save life...as in this case...it is necessary to take a life. I won't bother to dwell on the tens of thousands of helpless infant lives Tiller has taken over the years nor how many would be alive today if it were not for Tiller. I wonder, would Bandow have wet his panties if an assassin had "whacked" Hitler back around 1942-43?
KyMouse| 7.1.09 @ 12:01PM
Adaptune, your life began when your father's sperm entered your mother's egg. Each brought DNA from that particular parent. From that moment of fertilization, you possessed unique DNA, which came from each of your parents, but is different from theirs. And from that moment on, nothing but nutrition and time was needed to turn you into the adult that you are today. You did not come FROM an embryo, you WERE an embryo; and over the years you became a newborn, a toddler, a teen-ager, and so on -- but you were the same person at each stage of development. Only in mythology do people spring fully formed from a parent's head (Athena, if I'm not mistaken); the rest of us started out very, very small, and then grew. Each of us went through the exact same stages of normal development, and at times we didn't look "human," but looks can be deceiving. Whenever you see a photo of even the tiniest embryo, remember that you were exactly like that at one time -- and you're human. Go out some night and look up at the Milky Way above you, and ask yourself how big you are in comparision -- very small, yet you are still a human being.
Pingback| 7.1.09 @ 1:12PM
digg » Blog Archive » Roundup: Disputes About White House Abortion Plan links to this page. Here’s an excerpt:
Willmaster| 7.1.09 @ 2:46PM
What a bunch of sick bastards
Who in their right mind talks like you un american' unchristian sickos
Daisy| 7.1.09 @ 3:17PM
Yeah, a right minded 'Christian' like you, WillM; who celebrates the killing of every baby possible, regardless of gestational age and viability.
51 million of them since 1973
Look in the mirror to see the REAL vicious, sick b@stard here.
matt jones| 7.21.09 @ 3:16PM
An interesting proposal- blame a 'culture of death' rather than extremist pandering to the public to do their part. here's the problem- when one dictates that such actions of abortion are quiet genocides, and those who perpertrate them are in fact no different then hitler or stalin or bin landen, little choice is left for those who feel that such actions are indefensable and that such individuals are deplorable and depraved and not fit to live in society. by portraying the scenario, one invokes in individuals a sense of rigtheousness that is not calmed by anything but a taste for blood. by defining such senarios as atrocities towards humanity and to use such words indiscrimanantly, shows that one has little respesct for some lifes and relativistic nonsense- as portrayed in this article- will not change that. the rethoric of prolife organizations has long been one that linked their actions and efforts to that of need of victory in a war. however when such ironically hypocritical understanding takes place in the murder of man who provided sevices to voluntary patients, the notion of never encouraging murder instantly flies up. when people speak and act such events have consequences. the first admendment is a blessing as a guarenteed right in this country. however it comes with a price: ever vigilance and careful consideration of the effect such expressions will have as our eternal responsibility.
segoyu89| 4.22.10 @ 9:23PM
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I’ll have a Poptropica full written walkthrough very soon, but in the meantime, here are some answers to some of the frequently asked questions about Mythology Island. Having trouble? Post a question in the comments and I’ll try to answer it!
Getting Hercules to Help You