The Public Policy
Obama’s Wealth-Care System
Get ready to go around Obama care — Israel’s experience show one way it’s done.
President Obama took his show on the road yesterday to preach the urgency of reforming our health-care system. The reason for this, he explained, is that the current approach is too expensive. Get it? We need government health care to save money.
The Big Lie theory is well-known, having been elaborated in a German book called Mein Kampf written by a house painter who later went into politics. He explained that people force themselves to believe a lie so colossal that no one “could have the impudence to distort the truth so infamously.” The idea that a Federal single-payer health regimen mandated for everyone would cost less than we pay now is so stupendously mind-boggling and jaw-dropping startles us out of any rational response.
Rather than debate this absurd proposition let me tell you a story of a real Socialist medical regimen as experienced by this author. In October 1981 I moved to Israel for a few years. I had never been out of the country before, other than my two years living in Montreal between the ages of three and five. My ex-wife was pregnant with our second child and the first order of business was to find a capable obstetrician.
We sat down with friends who explained what was what. It turned out that the government did allow a couple to contract with a private obstetrician, but by so doing they would forfeit the hospital coverage. So you had a choice. If you wanted the personal care of a private doctor who could be called to the hospital to deliver your child, you not only had to pay his fee, you had to pay the hospital out of pocket. If you could afford your own doctor you must be able to afford the hospital.
If on the other hand you wanted to enjoy the benefits of free hospitalization, you had to accept birthing by a midwife. In this case, as well, you were supposed to accept the midwife on duty whenever you happen to arrive at the hospital, a woman who knows neither you nor your case. If a surgery is required, it will be assigned to the doctor on call at the time.
“So you mean everyone goes along with this rigmarole and all children are delivered by strangers?”
Oh, no, our friends laughed. Nobody actually does it this way. All this is only for show. What actually happens is you meet with a private doctor or midwife, then pay them with no record and no receipt. They will meet with you through the pregnancy like a regular private patient, all off the books. Once the contractions come and you need to head to the hospital, you call the doctor at home. He then ambles down to the hospital, pretends to be there by coincidence and personally supervises the delivery. All the hospital staff play along with a wink and a nod. The birth is registered as having been achieved without the assistance of a private doctor, thus allowing the hospitalization to be free of charge.
Who do people use? Who is recommended? The top two men in Jerusalem are Doctor W, a Hungarian Jew and Doctor A, a native Israeli. W is older and more by the book, while the other brings a youthful flair. They each charge a sizable fee. Just don’t be the one to bring up the subject of money, let them broach it in their way. Oh, and right now they are both under indictment for these very infractions.
We chose Doctor W and had a nice session in his inner office. He was asking all the right questions, standard pregnancy issues, then he suddenly pointed to a painting on the wall and put his finger to his lips. The police were bugging his office. He kept on talking while jotting something on a small Post-It note. Without pausing in his conversation he handed me this paper. “Two thousand dollars,” it read.
Well, I’m not proud of it but I allowed myself to be swept along by the tide. I paid up and played the game along with everyone else. It turned out my daughter, Rachel, was more than two weeks overdue and a Caesarean was indicated. Doctor W happened along at just the right moment to perform it capably. That was February 23, 1982, and twenty-seven years later, Rachel is doing fine, living in Toronto with her husband and four children.
Although I am still flabbergasted and speechless by Obama’s contention that services will be provided while money will be saved, my story speaks on my behalf. The last word goes to my friend, Mister Greenblatt of Memphis, who ran into me on a Jerusalem street shortly after my daughter was born. “Oh, you used Doctor W? I heard he only delivers under the table.”
About the Author
Jay D. Homnick, commentator and humorist, is a frequent contributor to The American Spectator. He also writes for Human Events. Here he speaks at the Rally for Religious Freedom in Miami on June 8, 2012.
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Bram| 6.12.09 @ 7:49AM
So Obamacare will do for the medical profession what income taxes have done for plumbers and carpenters. There is a cash price and a check price.
janet| 6.12.09 @ 8:25AM
I have family living in socialist Europe, and can attest to the same thing. Even an uncle of mine who owns a business there does things "under the table" just to survive. Time and again it's proven over and over that socialism sounds great in THEORY but it does not take into account the reaslities of the human condition. Interesting also that when polled between choosing a government offered healthcare plan or the one they currently are in, MOST people chose the one they are in. So what's the need for the government to meddle? Let Teddy Kennedy and Nancy Pelosi sign up for govt healthcare if they think it's so great.
Wicked Dickie--Virginia| 6.12.09 @ 8:49AM
Gee, two surprises on the same day. Fust, was the "celebrity" thing and now the check/cash price thing. We simple peasants have been doing that for years. Many of my neighbors don't have a checking account. Money orders are their thing. One does wonder what folks living in the wilds of New Yawk City will do?
Zack| 6.12.09 @ 8:50AM
Your daughter lives in Toronto? What does she do when she gets sick?
zack| 6.12.09 @ 8:51AM
Janet-
Ted Kennedy, Nancy Pelosi and every other member of government DO have Government health care. And if you ask them to give it up they won't, because it is so great. If only we had the same access they did
Rudy| 6.12.09 @ 9:27AM
The number of "uninsured" or whatever; is now at 50 million or so--depending on what sounds good. It may or may not be true--why do the 270 million that have access to care have to turn the system upside down to deal with this minority!
Canadien| 6.12.09 @ 9:31AM
Good question by Zach. If social health care is so bad, please tell us why your daughter is doing fine and she has four children who have survived in socialist Canada.
Zack| 6.12.09 @ 9:35AM
Rudy-
If your mom or child didn't have access to health insurance because of a preexisting condition or they couldn't afford it, would you say that?
You are also not considering the 120 million people who have insurance that aren't happy with it. Add those people together and now we are at 170 million.
People wouldn't go bankrupt due to medical bills with single-payer insurance. 18,000 people wouldn't die every year simply because they didn't have access. I can bet you know someone who is uninsured or underinsured. Talk to them.
Souky | 6.12.09 @ 9:48AM
Zach,
I started my own business 5 years ago. I have had no health insurance and no dental since then. Any "emergencies" were paid for out of pocket. We BARELY scrape by and since the econmic downturn - we may lose our house and our business. However, I would no more want my neighbors and fellow Americans to pay for my health care than I would walk into their houses and steal their TV's. It's the SAME THING. You don't have the right to someone else money or success no matter HOW much you need it. There are MUCH better ways to handle the so-called
"health insurance crisis". And, I have scrimped and sacrificed my time (I work 12 hours a day / 7 days a week - no vacations, barely see my wife), my energy, my health and risked every cent I have ever made on the chance that the product I invented will succeed and I will become one of the "greedy rich". And, I don't want your money now - and I don't want to give you mine when that occurs. You don't have a right to it. Period.
ryan| 6.12.09 @ 9:53AM
15% of the population.
ZACH: this is what I have to say states already also have lots of options for peoples. Wi,(sigh) here has Badgercare plus that is for the middle poor,schip, of course you all know who that covers. Sliding sale clinics. What is it your fam.mem. needs the insurance to do for them(?)?
Zack| 6.12.09 @ 9:54AM
Souky-
If you buy into Private Health Insurance, you are putting your money in a pool to be used if you or someone else in that pool needs it. Therefore, if you have a catastrophic illness that costs more than the amount of premium dollars you have put in, you are in essence "taking money from other people".
With Single-Payer health insurance we ALL would be putting in a flat tax of 3.5% (think of it as a premium) to a HUGE pool. The sick would be drawing from that pool the same way private insurance works now. The difference is that we would all be protected. It would be like the Police and Fire Departments. We pay tax for the common safety. What is wrong with that?
TOMKAT| 6.12.09 @ 9:58AM
Zach,
Also, consider that people die with access. Insurance will not prevent death.
Zack| 6.12.09 @ 10:06AM
Ryan-
We have a mutli-tiered health care system now. Those options you mentioned only apply to certain people. My wife is pregnant. To get Medicaid a family of four must make less than 32000 a year. I make slightly more than that. I had to get private insurance because I can't afford the cost of having a healthy baby otherwise. Through my employer, it is still 1/3 or my salary and that is BEFORE the baby arrives. When the baby does get here, I am looking at nearly half my salary going to insurance. That's assuming he/she is healthy. If not, he/she won't be covered (at least at any affordable rate) and I will be left to pick up the bill and probably declare bankruptcy. If you want to tell me, "so what?" then go F yourself. I pay taxes. I work my ass off. All I ask from my government is a little protection. Its no different than police and fire department or the military.
Tomkat-
So if I die at 35 due to a freak problem that I couldn't get treatment for because I have no insurance, that's OK because I would have died at 75 anyway even if I had treatment? Thanks. And to think I might have been interested to watch my kids grow up.
Zack| 6.12.09 @ 10:06AM
Ryan-
We have a mutli-tiered health care system now. Those options you mentioned only apply to certain people. My wife is pregnant. To get Medicaid a family of four must make less than 32000 a year. I make slightly more than that. I had to get private insurance because I can't afford the cost of having a healthy baby otherwise. Through my employer, it is still 1/3 or my salary and that is BEFORE the baby arrives. When the baby does get here, I am looking at nearly half my salary going to insurance. That's assuming he/she is healthy. If not, he/she won't be covered (at least at any affordable rate) and I will be left to pick up the bill and probably declare bankruptcy. If you want to tell me, "so what?" then go F yourself. I pay taxes. I work my ass off. All I ask from my government is a little protection. Its no different than police and fire department or the military.
Zack| 6.12.09 @ 10:07AM
Ryan-
We have a mutli-tiered health care system now. Those options you mentioned only apply to certain people. My wife is pregnant. To get Medicaid a family of four must make less than 32000 a year. I make slightly more than that. I had to get private insurance because I can't afford the cost of having a healthy baby otherwise. Through my employer, it is still 1/3 or my salary and that is BEFORE the baby arrives. When the baby does get here, I am looking at nearly half my salary going to insurance. That's assuming he/she is healthy. If not, he/she won't be covered (at least at any affordable rate) and I will be left to pick up the bill and probably declare bankruptcy. If you want to tell me, "so what?" then go F yourself. I pay taxes. I work my ass off. All I ask from my government is a little protection. Its no different than police and fire department or the military.
zack| 6.12.09 @ 10:07AM
Ryan-
We have a mutli-tiered health care system now. Those options you mentioned only apply to certain people. My wife is pregnant. To get Medicaid a family of four must make less than 32000 a year. I make slightly more than that. I had to get private insurance because I can't afford the cost of having a healthy baby otherwise. Through my employer, it is still 1/3 or my salary and that is BEFORE the baby arrives. When the baby does get here, I am looking at nearly half my salary going to insurance. That's assuming he/she is healthy. If not, he/she won't be covered (at least at any affordable rate) and I will be left to pick up the bill and probably declare bankruptcy. If you want to tell me, "so what?" then go F yourself. I pay taxes. I work my ass off. All I ask from my government is a little protection. Its no different than police and fire department or the military.
zack| 6.12.09 @ 10:08AM
appologies for the mutli-comments.... submission problem
TOMKAT| 6.12.09 @ 10:12AM
Zack,
Congratulations to the impending birth of your child. I hope all goes well. Have you considered using a mid wife for the birth instead of the doctor controlled process? it is much less expensive and as birth is not a medical condition to be treated as an illness, the natural process is a wonderful experience.
Zack| 6.12.09 @ 10:17AM
Tomkat-
We considered it, however 2 months before she got pregnant, she had a miscarriage. (cost us a lot of money by the way being that we didn't have insurance at the time.) We don't want to take the chance of any further complications.
JerseyJ| 6.12.09 @ 10:33AM
Zack ... "With Single-Payer health insurance we ALL would be putting in a flat tax of 3.5% (think of it as a premium) to a HUGE pool. "
So you're saying the 50% of residents of the US who current don't pay ANY tax would also be kicking into the pot? Whoopee! Finally we're getting somewhere ... or maybe not.
Zack| 6.12.09 @ 10:36AM
JerseyJ-
50% of the residents are NOT paying taxes?? I have never heard that figure. Why not tell me where you read it.
Eli | 6.12.09 @ 11:00AM
Jersey-
The bottom 50% of wage earners pay only 2.7% of the total federal income tax collected in the US.
Glen Leinbach| 6.12.09 @ 11:09AM
The oft-quoted "47% of Americans without helathcare" includes anyone who was without insurance st ANY time during the previous year, even if it was just a 1-week gap between jobs.
If we measured unemployment this way, the rate would probably be over 30%! It also includes young healthy people who choose not to be covered.
And to Zack, the IRS says that about 40% of households pay zero income tax.
Zack| 6.12.09 @ 11:21AM
Glen-
I don't see how a payroll deduction of 3.5% (as proposed in HR 676, read about it here: www.pnhp.org) can be skirted by people not paying taxes. I'd like to see that statistic, so send me a link.
Brian B| 6.12.09 @ 11:34AM
--Your daughter lives in Toronto? What does she do when she gets sick? --
If she's like many Candians she crosses the border to the US to be treated rather than standing in government healthcatre lines.
--Ted Kennedy, Nancy Pelosi and every other member of government DO have Government health care. And if you ask them to give it up they won't, because it is so great. If only we had the same access they did .--
They have gold plated government provided insurance existing within a high quality private health care industry. If you think that is what we'll be provided I suggest you are a bit naive and would be better served by having a look at the wonders of medicaid, which is far closer to where we are headed.
--My wife is pregnant.--
Congratulations. And you "work your ass off" to support her. Join the club.
However let me give you a couple of examples of real world healthcare.
1.My wife's cousin, on medicaid, tore a disk. Two years of waiting and wrangling over her injury before medicaid would approve an MRI or surgery resulted in her permanent disability through unnecessary nerve damage.
2. My wife had stage four breast cancer with multiple metasteses to her thoracic skeleton a few years back, with pronounced anemia and hypercalcemia and was near death. Had she been in Canada, Britain or Europe it is doubtful she would have been approved for any treatment at all due to the "incurable", stage four, advanced nature of her disease, and even if she had it probably would have been posthumously, after the waiting list; hypercalcemic patients have an abysmal prognosis.
Instead Blue Shield and her doctor promptly gave her the full course of chemo and today she is cancer free, very happy and most importantly, alive.
If Zack and Mr. O get their way many people in her situation will instead be dead.
That's how government healthcare saves money, it kills people like my wife. No thanks.
JerseyJ| 6.12.09 @ 11:41AM
Zack, you can start here ...
http://www.taxfoundation.org/publications/show/250.html
Of 135.7 Million filers, 31.7% completely wiped out their federal tax liability through the use of deductions, credits and exemptions. Some portion of those generated negative tax liability and were refunded taxes they did not pay through refundable credits. This 31.7% or 43 Million returns, does not include non-filers. Adding in non-filers who's income is below requiring a return will run that number up to 57.5 Million income earners who pay zero taxes. That puts the percentage at 42.4%. Add in those who don't work at all and you're easily into the liberal Robin Hood utopia of 50%.
I would submit to you that you probably work way too hard to have that hard earned money redistributed to those who don't pay anything yet draw from the system. Do you honestly think adding in universal health care for everyone including non-citizens will reduce what you lay out of pocket? You will be taxed beyond all ability to survive independently. Welcome to government servitude. Soon you'll be hearing the phrase "I'm only unemployed for the benefits."
Wake up now and help make a better America for your child through free markets and individual property rights. Help us promote "equality of opportunity" and don't fall for the liberal folly of "equality of result". It's not too late.
Brian B a very touching story of your wife. Glad to hear she's doing well and that big-bad-profit-grabbing private insurance company was able to help. Maybe they're on to something.
CopyKatNj| 6.12.09 @ 11:41AM
Zack -
How about being responsible for your own short sightedness. If you couldn't afford more children you should have taken steps not to impregnate your wife.
Zack| 6.12.09 @ 11:49AM
Brian-
Don't compare what I want with Obama. he doesn't stand for what I want.
Your daughter must be rich to have 4 kids here and pay out of pocket.
Pelosi and Kennedy have gold plated government provided insurance. Why can't we all have that? Private sector doctors can have all the free market competition they want.
You compared Obama to Hitler and then called him socialist in the same paragraph. I suggest you learn the difference.
Medicaid doesn't work because its part of a multitiered system that spits in the face of the poor. If we all had the same insurance, we could all demand the best.
Zack| 6.12.09 @ 11:56AM
JerseyJ-
I think free markets are great. Unfortunately, I don't think the current health insurance system allows for it. let the free market be about choosing the best doctors. Single-Payer system would allow free choice of doctors.
CopyKatNJ-
Go F yourself. I thought this was America. I am not allowed to have a child? Maybe you prefer I wait to when my wife is over 35 and we have a higher chance of birth defects? That would be great. Then no insurance company would touch my kids with Downs because its too much of a profit risk for them. Thanks A-hole. I took the responsibility to make sure she was insured. Of course, at the cost of 1/3 of my salary. I would gladly take a 3.5% tax hike for a Single-Payer System. The current way things are, you could eliminate my taxes and I'd still have to pay more then adding the extra 3.5%. I hope you get hit with poverty. Then you can put your money where your mouth is and tell me that you decided to not have kids.
JerseyJ| 6.12.09 @ 12:01PM
Zack asks ... "I don't see how a payroll deduction of 3.5% (as proposed in HR 676, read about it here: www.pnhp.org) can be skirted by people not paying taxes."
Ummm ... ok, if they're not paying taxes there is a good chance they are (choose all that apply)
1) not citizens
2) paid under the table
3) not working
4) going to invoke enough refundable credits to completely wipe out that 3.5%
In the first three options there's no payroll to deduct from. Tax skirted. Option four is reserved for those that are members of special interest entitled blocks of voters ... and a few who actually need the credits.
BTW, do you really honestly believe that the health plan you're being offered by the government even remotely resembles the health plan given to congress? They will no more be subject to the same health coverage you get than you will be permitted a vote in congress. Again I say wake up ... This is no slippery slope into socialism, this is a cliff.
There is room for free-market solutions, but State regulation does not allow for it. Here in Jersey the regulation of Health Insurance is killing the free-market and driving costs up for everyone. Allowing pruchase of health coverage across State lines would resolve that in a big hurry. Tort reform is the other half of the equation that mysteriously no one is talking about when talking about making health care affordable. Why do you think Drs and Hospitals charge so much? A large portion is medical malpractice. No one wants to take on the lawyers so they talk single-payer and cutting expenses. Unfortunately, without tort reform, there's no way to drive costs down without rationing care or artificially setting allowable payments to Drs and Hospitals.
L. Ross| 6.12.09 @ 12:07PM
Zach:
My heart goes out to you. I had to cover my own health insurance for several years, and it does suck. If your health insurance is taking $16,000 a year, you have a terrible policy. However, I suspect that when you say it takes half your salary, you mean half your take-home pay which is considerably less. If you take insurance with a high deductible, rates drop dramatically, and you can use the difference to cover your deductible when you actually need health coverage. By shopping around, you can help yourself out quite a bit. Good luck with your upcoming child.
Zack| 6.12.09 @ 12:10PM
If you don't want any form of Socialism (that doesn't equate to no Democracy by the way) then when someone is holding a gun to your head, tell the cops to go home. When your house is burning down, tell the fire department to get lost. Tell them all you don't want their socialist help.
I looked at that site regarding the tax difference. It never mentioned anything about tax returns. Don't just say that they don't pay taxes. those tax returns are generally because people would otherwise not make enough to survive.
Zack| 6.12.09 @ 12:20PM
L.Ross-
Its not taking half my pay yet. That will be after the baby has arrived. I chose an expensive policy because knowing that my wife was pregnant, I knew that I would need to be as fully covered as possible. If we had gone with a cheaper policy with the higher deductibles, I would have ended up paying more. I shopped around as much as I could to get the best coverage I could. All I am asking for here is that the Insurance costs come from one place... a Single Payer. Then I can choose my doctor. I can shop around for the best care. That doctor will be compensated by the insurer more and make more money. The doctors who are not as good will have to become better to maintain business.
Thank you for your well wishes.
Big J| 6.12.09 @ 12:24PM
"Only in Obama's World":
Only in Obama's world can one quadruple the deficit while claiming to cut it in half.
Only in Obama's world can one trash the very country he claims to be leading.
Only in Obama's world will the government do a better job of running ANYTHING (let alone something as complicated as health care) better than the private sector. The soaring cost of health care has a lot more to do with TOO MUCH government meddling as opposed to not enough. Don't forget the 20 million plus "undocumented workers" that cannot be denied care due to current laws. Don't forget a lot of things.
Zack, I charge you do name ONE (not two, but ONE) industry that the government has improved by taking it over. Don't tell me the Military, because TRUE leaders run those organizations that protect us, not Washington bureaucrats that don't have a clue about keeping us safe.
Look. I sympathize with those that do not have insurance. I was one of them back when I was in my twenties. I didn't need it. I was healthy, and I am glad nobody forced it on me. I was also without insurance for the first five years of self employment (no thanks to the government: they could have made it affordable by passing AHP's, or Association Health Plans, but that might anger the lobbyists). I found out quickly how expensive lack of insurance can be. It cost me $7,500.00 to repair a broken ankle, on top of being immobilized for 4 months. Not fun in the least.
I will tell you, however that health insurance is NOT a right. I don't know where you get this 3.5% figure, but it is bogus, like many other figures the Left crams down our throats to get their Socialist agenda passed. "Do it for the children". "But there are so many poor people without coverage". "500 million Americans go bankrupt every year because they don't have health insurance". /sarc
A government-run health care system spells d-i-s-a-s-t-e-r to me.
I will agree that the congressional health care system is far superior to the system available to the peasants such as us. So is their retirement program.
You want to fix Medicare and Social Security in one fell swoop? Force congress to be covered by Medicare and retire on Social (in)Security benefits. I guarantee that they will be fixed before the end of their first term.
I'm not holding my breath.
Don't buy the snake oil they are selling, Zack. It doesn't matter how loud they scream "It really works!", it's a lie and a farce.
zack| 6.12.09 @ 12:33PM
Big J-
I agree with some of what you said there... especially with how to fix medicare and social security. Some of your numbers are wrong and the 3.5% comes from the PNHP proposal (www.pnhp.org). There are a lot of FAQs there and the full HR 676 proposal. 500 million americans do not go bankrupt from medical expenses each year. there are only 300 million americans at all.... 60% of bankruptcies are medical bill related which i believe is what you were thinking.
Big J| 6.12.09 @ 12:36PM
Zack,
Not trying to be argumentative, you make excellent points. It's really amazing how intelligent the conversation gets on a site like this when the trolls are banished.
But......
You said, "If you don't want any form of Socialism (that doesn't equate to no Democracy by the way) then when someone is holding a gun to your head, tell the cops to go home. When your house is burning down, tell the fire department to get lost."
I beg to differ. The police are there to go catch the bad guys AFTER they hold a gun to your head and have their way with you and / or your son, daughter, mother, etc. I have never had a police car parked outside my door waiting on the bad guys to show up, just so he can PREVENT a crime. It is MY responsibility to protect my family from a gun-wielding nut job (more often than not, a prime example of government dependence in action). The fire department doesn't prevent fires, they come to put them out after they start. Hopefully they show up in time, and by no means would I "send them home, simply because I detest Socialism". Apples to oranges, my friend.
I do not see the equivalence between the police, firemen or even military and "universal health care".
As far as the tax thing goes, 40% of Americans do NOT pay taxes. That's a fact that was laid before you earlier.
My simple math tells me no taxes = no taxes.
I.E.: 3.5% X 0 = 0 (but medical care included). Again, 3.5% is a lie. Don't buy it.
If it sounds too good to be true.......
Do I need to finish the old adage?
Big J| 6.12.09 @ 12:38PM
Zack,
For future reference:
/sarc = turning off my sarcasm mode
I am well aware of the supposed population of the United States, unlike Nancy Pelosi who thinks that 500 million people will lose their jobs EVERY WEEK if the recovery and reinvestment package isn't passed.
Brian B| 6.12.09 @ 1:04PM
--Brian-
Don't compare what I want with Obama. he doesn't stand for what I want.--
He's the guy running the bus over the cliff so we can either discuss some mythical Uotpian system or the one that is going to be shoved down our throats.
--Your daughter must be rich to have 4 kids here and pay out of pocket.--
My daughter is 17 years old. I'm assuming you are confusing her with Mr. Homnick's daughter.
--Pelosi and Kennedy have gold plated government provided insurance. Why can't we all have that? --
Because such a system can only exist for a small elite. We know what mass public health systems really look like; medicaid and medicare.
--You compared Obama to Hitler and then called him socialist in the same paragraph. I suggest you learn the difference.--
WTF? I said no such thing and suggest you be a little more careful in your attributions.
--Medicaid doesn't work because its part of a multitiered system that spits in the face of the poor. If we all had the same insurance, we could all demand the best.--
You seem like a sincere and decent guy, but do you honestly think government intevention in markets gives people "the best" of anything?
If so, citation please.
Brian B| 6.12.09 @ 1:11PM
--You compared Obama to Hitler and then called him socialist in the same paragraph. I suggest you learn the difference.--
BTW, you do know that the official name of the Nazi party was the National Socialist German Workers' Party, right?
Rudy| 6.12.09 @ 2:20PM
Here in NYS the marketplace has been so distorted by state intervention that the consumer has no idea what the true cost of services are. Insurance is so regulated with state requirements that the typical family plan is well over 12K per year for the self-employed. This WILL be the cost of health care nationwide regardless of what the ruling elites tell themselves. The question that needs to be answered truthfully is if we are willing to shoulder the 20% tax (forced payment) required to pay for universal care. As an advanced society this may be the right thing to do. However, do not be fooled into believing that someone else will pay the bill. This will be a system where 'everyone an no one' is responsible for its operation and cannot possibly 'cut costs'.
JerseyJ| 6.12.09 @ 3:14PM
I have a stupid question regarding this statement ...
"The question that needs to be answered truthfully is if we are willing to shoulder the 20% tax (forced payment) required to pay for universal care. "
How in the world did this become a question of whether or not we're "willing" to accept the illegal and unconstitutional actions of the federal government? Which one of the powers granted to the federal government by the Constitution (listed below) allow the government to "solve" health care in the first place? I think it's high time we simply make Americans actually read the Constitution. Instead of ads attacking socialized healthcare or auto maker takeovers or whatever the crises du jour is, just do national TV spots reading the Constitution ... 60 seconds at a time. Here you go America, these are the rules of your Republic. The role of the federal government has always been to stay the f** out of the way of private citizens' rights to pursue happiness and live life in liberty.
Powers granted to the US Federal Government by Article 1 of the Constitution of the United States of America ...
Borrow money
Regulate commerce among the states
Regulate naturalization
Regulate bankruptcies
Coin money
Fix weights and standards
Punish counterfeiters
Establish post offices
Establish post roads
Record patents
Protect copyrights
Create federal courts
Punish pirates
Declare war
Raise an army
Provide a navy
Call up the militia
Organize the militia
Makes laws for Washington, DC
Make rules for the Army and Navy
Anyone see "Manufacture buggywhips" or "Lend money" or "Regulate the salaries of private citizens" or ... well, you get the point.
Old Texican| 6.12.09 @ 7:12PM
JerseyJ
Thank you for joining the discussion.
Your last post was on point...and really funny. Great combination.
A lot of our younger people here just have not had their "puppet strings" yanked YET, by government. They truly do not understand the difference between police and firemen.
Thankyou for your thought.
Lu| 6.12.09 @ 9:10PM
The 10th amendment, thats what we need. Whom ever said we should all 3.5% must be smoking some funny cigarettes. I friend of mine from England(now an American citizen) has parents and siblings still living there. They pay 11% just for FREE healthcare. It is amazing how many really stupid people we have living in this Country.
Maddox| 6.12.09 @ 9:12PM
Yes, JerseyJ, your post is excellent. I hope you won't mind if I pass it on to my friends and some of the useful idiots with the hope they may be enlightened.
Barbara| 6.12.09 @ 9:28PM
So, if Obama's health plan is passed, we get higher taxes on everything, fuel is already going up...and then we have to find someone to accept payment under the table and pay them more too?
I have a question. I read that Obama is going to make big cuts on Medicare. Why? and what does he plan to do about the elderly on Medicare?
Anyone know?
I also read that this health plan will provide coverage for illegal aliens...just like his SCHIP provides for illegal's kids.
Why does our government think we should provide anything & everything, to illegal aliens?
JerseyJ| 6.12.09 @ 10:02PM
Maddox ... "I hope you won't mind if I pass it on to my friends and some of the useful idiots with the hope they may be enlightened. "
If you think it would help, go right ahead. I would, however, like to credit downsizedc.com for the easily copy and pasted list of powers granted by Article 1 of the Constitution.
janet| 6.12.09 @ 10:18PM
Zack,
When I said that Teddy Kennedy and Nancy Pelosi should have the same government run healthcare program, I meant THE ONE THEY WANT TO FOIST ON US, THE AVERAGE AMERICAN CITIZEN. Of course they'll exempt themselves. I also would love to have access to THEIR pension systems.
BrianB, JereseyJ, EXCELLENT insights.
BTW, Hitler was a LEFTIST, and not a right-winger!
happy feder| 6.12.09 @ 11:26PM
Buy Dr. W a drink for the new smile at home.
Nice singing on Youtube, Jay. I predict Jay will be the Bob Dylan to vitalize the conservative movement.
Frosty| 6.13.09 @ 1:47AM
Zack,
I have a couple of comments about your problems. First, why do you think that your personal problems with insuring your own family warrants implementation of a healthcare solution that will deprive the vast majority of Americans of the current system they pay for and appreciate? Are 200 million Americans to suffer the ravages of socialized medicine because of your plight? You tell us you would "gladly" subject yourself to a 3.5% tax in order to have healthcare, yet you admit you make just over 32K a year. That would leave you paying around 100 dollars a month for insurance. Yes, I also would "gladly" pay that for insurance if I could. But don't pitch it as some huge sacrifice on your part.
I could argue all day about my belief that you have no right to ask someone else to pay for your healthcare, and then have the gall on this site to tell them to f-off if they don't submit willingly to your plan to have them do so, but I feel confident you would never be persuaded. However, the fact that government run healthcare would result in doctor shortages, a significant decrease in the academic quality of medical school applicants, rationing of care, denial of care, declining quality of care, and an unresponsive healthcare bureaucracy is an undeniable fact. No matter what your personal needs are in this matter, government run healthcare is something that any responsible father would not willingly subject their family to.
June | 6.13.09 @ 8:25AM
Inequality in America
Poverty In America, long before Obama.
Inequality in America
From The Economist print edition
AMERICANS do not go in for envy. The gap between rich and poor is bigger than in any other advanced country, but most people are unconcerned. Whereas Europeans fret about the way the economic pie is divided, Americans want to join the rich, not soak them. Eight out of ten, more than anywhere else, believe that though you may start poor, if you work hard, you can make pots of money. It is a central part of the American Dream.
The political consensus, therefore, has sought to pursue economic growth rather than the redistribution of income, in keeping with John Kennedy's adage that “a rising tide lifts all boats.” The tide has been rising fast recently. Thanks to a jump in productivity growth after 1995, America's economy has outpaced other rich countries' for a decade. Its workers now produce over 30% more each hour they work than ten years ago. In the late 1990s everybody shared in this boom.…
39 Million living in poverety in the first world.
War Vet's living under Bridges, growing armies of poor people living on the streets of America.
In a country of Fundamentalist Christians. Who would rather give their money to Hagge, to fund Israel, and an American government who gives away American Taxes to fund a terrorist state.
Israel underworld| 6.13.09 @ 9:37AM
HOW THE RUSSIAN MAFIA IS TAKING OVER ISRAEL'S UNDERGROUND
Archived for research, scholarship, education, and personal use from http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/special_report/1998/03/98/russian_mafia/69521.stm where it was seen on April 5, 2005 in accordance with "fair use" provision of the copyright law.
Saturday, 21 November, 1998
How Russia's mafia is taking over Israel's underworld
The Israeli authorities grant citizenship to anyone who can prove Jewish ancestry
The BBC's Kevin Connolly investigates the Russian mafia's covert invasion of Israeli society. There are alarming signs that the Russian mafia has taken over the Israeli underworld and is using the country to launder its vast profits. A wave of mass immigration from the former Soviet Union has brought 750,000 newcomers to the Jewish state in the last decade. Amid the innocent exodus were Russian gangsters, many of whom are believed to have produced bogus proof of Jewish ancestry to enter the country. Police in Israel have been keeping around 30 organised key crime suspects under surveillance.
Billions invested in Israel
Former police chief Asaf Hefetz says £2.5bn ($4bn) of organised crime money from the former Soviet Union has been invested in Israeli real estate, businesses and banks in the past seven years. Gregory Lerner, who was arrested in 1997 for defrauding four Russian banks of £70m ($106m), was reputedly sent to Israel to head up one of the money laundering operations.
Gregory Lerner is under police guard in Israel
Lerner, 47, will serve six years in jail after reaching a plea bargain with Israeli prosecutors. Detectives claim two Russian mafia groups are plotting to "spring" him from an Israeli jail.
Increasing Russian activity
Commander Meir Gilboa, chief of the Israeli Serious Crime Unit, has noticed the increasing activity of Russian gangsters. He says: "They come here because in Israel it's easy to carry out their illegal activities. "There is no law against money laundering or belonging to an illegal organisation. "It's easy for Jews to receive Israeli citizenship. If they are not Jews they are smart enough to forge documents in order to become citizens. They feel much safer here than in Russia."
Prostitutes from Eastern Europe often end up in Israel
Threat to Israeli society
Commander Gilboa says Russian criminal organisations pose a threat to Israeli society: "They have the means at their disposal to corrupt government and economic systems. "The other danger is that they will also increase crime here because they need a lot of money to support their luxurious lifestyles." One highly profitable area in which they are thriving is prostitution. Dozens of brothels and peepshows have sprung up in Tel Aviv and Haifa in the last few years.
Modern form of slavery
Many are controlled by Russian mobsters who recruit Eastern European women who then become trapped and subservient. Rita Rasnic, of the Israeli Women's Aid Centre, describes it as "modern day white slavery".
The Russian mafia is making a fortune in Israel
Women are often traded between gangsters for £6,000 ($10,000) to £9,000 ($15,000) and routinely have their passports taken away by their pimps. Detective Toni Haddad of the Haifa vice squad says: "They are sold like slaves. Nobody cares. I don't think it's life for them," as the prostitutes have to do whatever their bosses want. The woman are "not free to do anything."
Pingback| 6.13.09 @ 10:17AM
Morning Conservative Reading List - June 13, 2009 - AIP Blog - American Issues Proje links to this page. Here’s an excerpt:
Old Texican| 6.13.09 @ 11:19AM
...and if anyone here even reads the Jew-hater posts...I hope you will enjoy your profits from Nigeria when all that money goes into your bank account...(tee hee)...after you pay your "processing fee".
Pingback| 6.13.09 @ 1:20PM
The American Spectator : Obama's Wealth-Care System | Israel Today links to this page. Here’s an excerpt:
Pingback| 6.13.09 @ 1:20PM
The American Spectator : Obama's Wealth-Care System | Israel Today links to this page. Here’s an excerpt:
Marc Jeric| 6.13.09 @ 2:35PM
The experience described by the writer is so similar to mine wnen I lived in a communist country that I am left speechless. I escaped but my brother, a doctor stayed. He refused during his entire long career to accept bribes - but an occasional gift of a dozen eggs or a live chicken brought to his house when he was absent was OK. My father, dying from cancer, had the good luck of having a friend doctor who supplied him, illegally of course, with pain-killing morphium. The communist nomeclatura of course had a special medical and clinic system reserved for them exclusively.
Bill| 6.14.09 @ 12:20AM
Question for Zack:
are you from Huffington or MoveOn.morons and how much are they paying you to spam us with your drivel?
Richard Baker| 6.14.09 @ 12:33AM
This whole issue has legs because the Baby Boomers want something for nothing. Remember, their motto is "Take care of my responsibilities, raise my kids, so I can go play". Obama needs people like this to buy an idea this stupid.
JerseyJ| 6.14.09 @ 8:17AM
Bill ... "Question for Zack: ... how much are they paying you to spam us with your drivel?"
I would caution against summarily dismissing someone as a liberal shill.
By all accounts, there are currently millions of Americans who would describe themselves as normallly non-political searching for ways to get involved. They're fed up. These are the people that need to be taught the truth about real conservative values. If all they know of conservatism is what they've been told by libbies, well, you do the math.
The problem is, the easily accessible sources of information spout liberal party talking-points, mis-information and outright lies. Our teleprompter-in-chief is STILL feeding us a buffet of "Bush's fault" and the MSM is happy to parrot that along to the public.
Someone like Zack who digs deeper and does manage to arrive a site like AS has been fed a bunch of crap and is understandably confused. Many in middle-stream American need an education into the workings of government and free-market economy. It's not that they're dumb or don't care it's that the information that's forced on them daily is incorrect. Frankly they shouldn't really HAVE to care. We're supposed to be represented by someone who cares but the fact is, we no longer are.
Regular Americans need to understand why every single time socialist approaches to problems like health-care have been tried, they have failed monumentally. A year or so bago I would have described myself as strictly not political. Somewhere during the campaign I read the writing on the walls. More people will be reaching that point over the course of the next few months. We need to be sure that real and true information is available to them.
Perhaps he is indeed a shill, but if we counter with facts and coherent explanation, the light bulb will go on. Perhaps not for Zack, but for anyone else stumbles across AS and reads the posts.
Big J| 6.14.09 @ 8:20AM
JerseyJ,
Right on, brother. Zack didn't strike me as someone completely indoctrinated on the other side. He actually appeared to be reading others posts (mostly).
Excellent point.
janet| 6.14.09 @ 11:58AM
JerseyJ,
Your insights are reasoned, rational, and intelligent. You should run for elective office. I'd vote for you!
care4all| 6.15.09 @ 2:05AM
A new study shows that SINGLE-PAYER HEALTHCARE REFORM WOULD BE A MAJOR STIMULUS FOR THE US ECONOMY and would provide:
** 2.6 Million New Jobs,
** $317 Billion in Business Revenue,
** $100 Billion in Wages, and
** $44 Billion New Tax Revenues
The press release is here: http://www.calnurses.org/media-center/press-releases/2009/january/nurses-to-congress-expanding-medicare-could-reverse-job-losses-and-repair-our-broken-healthcare-system-and-safety-net.html
Here’s the study: http://www.calnurses.org/research/pdfs/ihsp_sp_economic_study_2009.pdf
YouTube clip (5 minutes) about how to pay for healthcare reform “HR676 - The Single Payer Solution, Part 4 of 4: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nxi7DnCH3zk It’s about public financing and private delivery.
Additional information and comments: http://www.care2.com/news/member/434996229/1032921
It’s clear that single-payer is the solution, not only in terms of providing quality care for all, but also economically!
Pingback| 6.16.09 @ 4:46AM
Social-Security-and-Retirement » The American Spectator : Obama's Wealth-Care System links to this page. Here’s an excerpt:
careless| 6.16.09 @ 6:07AM
Care 4 all,
If single gov't payments are so revenue producing and so good for jobs.... why are CA and NY in so much debt trouble?????
careless| 6.16.09 @ 6:10AM
Care 4 all,
CA and NY are the two flagships of gov't single pay programs... They are a clue what's in store
trouble| 7.7.09 @ 11:52PM
So Mr. Homnick's experiences in Israeli health care in 1981(!) are supposed to guide our decisions for improving US healthcare in 2009...I too have experience various health care systems. I'm a Canadian with 6 kids (2 born in Toronto) and 4 in Florida. I lived in Isreal with 2 infants with only the VISA/Mastercard plan (ie/ pay everything yourself) and I also lived in Switzerland and England for short periods of time. I'll take Canadian healthcare anytime over all the others... Americans who have only experienced the US system are truly misinformed about both the quality and accessibilty of non-US systems. I suggest that truly curious republicans who are so sure the other systems are inferior, educate themselves by contacting Americans who live in Canada, France, Australia and even Spain. Ask them if they'd like to trade their current healthcare for what passes for it here. My own research (extensive) shows they would not and in fact find the American propaganda against any form of national healthcare fearmongering at its worst. I send all of my kids to private schools for religious reasons but that doesn't meant the public schools are all terrible... and I totally pay taxes. I am fully prepared to pay higher taxes (like I did in Canada) to make sure that this country is more efficient and productive and successfull because its citizen's are able to work etc. because they are healthier and not paralized by constant financial nightmares related to healthcare problems. And for all of you who insist that Canadians have such long waits for everything - my entire family still lives in Canada and I have a sister who is a Doctor with a Masters in Public health from Harvard and a Phd in Medical Anthropolgy who has worked for IDRC (in public health for the last 12 years supervising health programs in Latin America and Africa) and Canada like everywhere else has longer and shorter waits depending on the disease and specialization. Florida, for example has a shortage of specialists for children's ear disease. When my son needed special care it took over a month to get an appointment...The insurance companies in this country don't care about clients they care about profits. Until people's health is put first again (either through a national plan or a system that dramatically regulates the insurance companies or creates much more competition for the insurance companies) America will continue providing amazing healthcare for the rich, mediocre care for the elderly and some of the poor and bankrupt the middle class.
Pingback| 8.27.09 @ 8:31PM
Ways to save your wealth - The Blog Planet links to this page. Here’s an excerpt:
Trackback| 9.15.09 @ 10:51AM
Homeowners Insurance Comparison, on Homeowners Insurance Comparison, links to this page. Here’s an excerpt:
htgrh| 1.7.10 @ 9:43PM
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