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Letter to the Editor View all comments (67) | Leave a comment
More Articles by Yogi Love
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Pingback| 4.11.09 @ 2:00PM
Clinton’s Pirates : But As For Me links to this page. Here’s an excerpt:
Pablo| 4.11.09 @ 3:17PM
jharp...
No, I don't think "you get it".
This started with the birth of Islam.
During Carter's Administration, we failed to retaliate.
Again, only under Reagan.
Then again, under Clinton.
Then again, under Bush.
And the beat goes on....
Nope| 4.11.09 @ 3:40PM
Now wait just a cotton-pickin' minute. I remember the televised hearings and debates over the war in Somalia. The Republicans were FREAKING OUT. They wanted us out of the war, they blamed Clinton for everything, said we never should have gone into the country in the first place.
That was back when you guys were non-interventionist. Remember?
Red Phillips | 4.11.09 @ 3:46PM
Oh good grief. The Somali pirates are not terrorists. They are not doing this for political ends. They are criminals committing one of the oldest crimes in the book.
The mindless, reflexive belligerence of the interventionist “right” never ceases to amaze. We shouldn’t have been in Somalia under Clinton (the GOP largely opposed that if you recall). And the idea that if we had stayed there longer things would be better now is absurd. (Or if they would at what cost?) Actually watch Black Hawk Down, a fantastic movie. It was Hell there.
Actually fighting pirates is a legitimate use of our military forces. Maybe we would be better able to do so if we weren’t spread thin all over policing the world.
The work of the non-interventionist conservative is never done.
J. Kelley| 4.11.09 @ 4:03PM
This is another example of the Bush Adminstration not talking to these poor pirates. Obama will talk to these folks and say he is sorry about that bad Bush, problem solved. We want have to be bothered by Pirates any more. Oh, excuse me, they are not pirates. They are poor folks just trying to make some money. If we can just get along and not be mean, as Bush was,we will be O.K.
Pablo| 4.11.09 @ 4:51PM
jharp...
Why ask me about the "cartoon"? Ask the cartoonist.
I look at the greater overall picture. I like the caption.
What you get when you abandon a battlefield to terrorists.
Clinton abandoned our military in Somalia. Months prior to "Blackhawk Down", the military had requested reinforcements from the Clinton Administration. They were denied. We were defeated by our government and driven out of Somalia. No retaliation. Thus..."they" have NO fear of the "Paper Tiger".
Many Moons ago, I was taught that in a fight or combat, you MUST hurt the other guy so bad, that he is no longer thinking about hurting you and fears you greatly. In addition, when you take NO PRISONERS, retaliation against you is very limited, if any.
Politics SUCK.
Long Live America.
Red Phillips | 4.11.09 @ 6:10PM
The caption does not make sense though. As I said above, the pirates are not terrorists. What is the political end they are trying to achieve? They are criminals in it for the money. Pure and simple. What could that possibly have to do with Clinton's unwise intervention in Somalia which most Republicans opposed anyway? We should have toppled the Warlords there and ushered in democracy, and now they would all be prosperous happy campers? Yeah, good luck with that.
Now if Clinton put the troops there he should have backed them up, but they shouldn't have been there to start with.
Reaganite Republican | 4.11.09 @ 6:49PM
In Somalia, we know where the pirates' bases are... we know where many of the pirates are... and we know where their boats are. All of these things should be vaporized by Navy pilots tomorrow- this would have a substantial deterrent effect.
But it's not going to happen with this president- it's approaching the point where one has to question his motivations and loyalties, really. Like when he snubbed the British -our closest ally for decades- because of some weird personal grudge re. what they did in Kenya 50 years ago.
Suffice to say that this country's interests and moral/strategic clarity are not always dominant factors with this White House.
http://reaganiterepublicanresistance.blogspot.com/
Pingback| 4.11.09 @ 8:09PM
Black Hawk Down II « Sterling James Estates links to this page. Here’s an excerpt:
Pablo| 4.11.09 @ 8:52PM
Red Phillips...
Looks like my understanding of terrorism is not the same as yours.
Per the dictionary, terrorism is the act of terrorizing; use of force or threats to demoralize, intimidate and subjugate such use as a political weapon or policy, to fill with terror, to coerce, make submission, threat of violence....
I would be willing to bet that you find no Jews or Christians in the pirate bands. But rather all are followers of Islam, which is both a religion AND a political force.
Are their acts criminal? Not to them. Allah be praised. Just where does the random money go? Not to better their standard of living, unless, of course, the purchase of AK-47's, RPGs and explosives count.
Rabid dogs kill. You do not negotiate with them.
Piracy can be stopped, but not with negotiations. Unfortunately many innocent lives will be lost in the process.
MT| 4.11.09 @ 11:10PM
Liberals are weak--they butted out of Vietnam, got rolled by Iranian hostage takers, butted out after being brutalized and bloodied by Somali thugs under Clinton, and worst of all, rejected Bin Laden numerous times in the 1990's. Useless liberal cowards--looks like the fun is just beginning.
Nope| 4.11.09 @ 11:38PM
Below is part of the text of the (temporarily defeated) Republican resolution to pull our troops out of Somalia. The full resolution is available here: http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/z?r103:H06OC3-756
*****
Statement of Republican Policy on U.S. Armed Forces in Somalia, Adopted April 1, 1993
U.S. military forces in Somalia have fulfilled the mission given them by President Bush. Republicans therefore call on President Clinton to bring our troops home.
In the last several months, as anarchy gripped that country and famine again loomed on the horizon, President Bush sent U.S. Armed Forces to Somalia to restore order and permit food to reach the people. He made a commitment to withdraw our troops when the mission was completed...
The mission has been accomplished, but our troops remain, and it appears President Clinton has no intention of bringing them home.
Without appropriate congressional consultation, President Clinton has committed thousands of U.S. military personnel... Furthermore, costs to the U.S. taxpayer continue to mount. In addition to the $800 million in costs already incurred by the U.S., President Clinton has just committed the taxpayers to another half billion dollars.
The United States is the world's only superpower, but this does not mean we are omnipotent, nor that our obligations are universal. Republicans believe that President Bush's commitment to pull our forces out of Somalia should be fulfilled.
*****
So there's that. As for Vietnam, it was fought under a Democratic President (Johnson), and ended by a Republican President (Nixon). Nixon came to office in his first term based on his campaign pledge to end the war.
But you believe whatever you want to believe, MT. As long as it makes you happy.
Red Phillips | 4.11.09 @ 11:42PM
Pablo, they are not terrorists in any traditional sense of the term. No it is not just about whether they terrorize people. It has to do with the ends they seek. Read this. The CS Monitor has a reputation for fairness and accuracy.
http://www.csmonitor.com/2008/1120/p25s22-woaf.html
The point of this thread is not whether we negotiate with the pirates. Actually dealing with pirates is one area where even non-interventionists like me would agree that some military action may be warranted. The point of the cartoon and the thread is Clinton’s intervention in Somalia which wasn’t motivated by piracy in the first place. It was humanitarian. Are you telling me you supported Clinton’s intervention at the time even though most conservatives and Republicans opposed it? And what are you suggesting Clinton should have done? Invade and occupy Somalia? Attempt to establish democracy there? As I said, good luck with that.
MT| 4.11.09 @ 11:55PM
Yeah, liberals, with the bowing and scraping Obama at the forefront, are weak. Four little pirates in a row boat have pushed Obumbler into a corner. Mighty Mouse Obummer. I stated the facts, you loser liberals are the ones who live in make believe land. You are weak; that's why the pirates didn't mess with George W.-they took Obummer's measure and found it wanting. Stood down by a couple of skinny pirates in a row boat. Joke.
CH| 4.11.09 @ 11:57PM
Obumbler is IMPOTENT.
Pablo| 4.12.09 @ 12:29AM
jharp...
You are losing it. Be respectful. Please.
Red Phillips...
I read the article you suggested. Pretty good. However, in intelligence matters it is often what is not said that is important.
Invade and occupy Somalia? NO.
Attempt to establish democracy there? NEVER.
Tell "them" leave our ships and citizens alone or we bomb them back to Mohammed's birth. Only this time, we keep our word.
A lot of people, myself included, feel that we should not have been there in the first place. It is well past the time that the U.S. act as the world's police force. America is in trouble now. The U.N. serves no good purpose. It is time for America to act in it's best interests and tell the one world activists to kiss off.
MT| 4.12.09 @ 12:41AM
I wasn't real happy about the hand-holding and kissing--but at least Bush didn't bend over and kiss the Saudi King's azz! It was an absolute disgrace, and made Obummer look like a back-bencher--oh, he is.
Conservative One| 4.12.09 @ 12:43AM
jharp: What color are your fancy Obama knee-pads? Hot pink? Toady.
MT| 4.12.09 @ 1:15AM
Pseudo Bow? Closer to a scrape and bow. The worst thing you can do with a Muslim is show subservience. What a fool. LOL!!
MT| 4.12.09 @ 1:16AM
How many abortion clinic bombings? 51 million dead babies. Stooge.
MT| 4.12.09 @ 1:24AM
jharp, I saw your facebook page--what a spaz you are. Moron.
MT| 4.12.09 @ 1:37AM
Ha ha ha ha ha ha! Loser--I know your Obummer embarassed you. Admit it, Saudi azz-kisser.
MT| 4.12.09 @ 1:39AM
Step and fetch it, right jharp? LOL
MT| 4.12.09 @ 2:11AM
Ha ha ha. Loser liberal--redundant term. Bend over and kiss your own azz, harpy. Just like your Saudi azz kissing hero.
MT| 4.12.09 @ 2:13AM
Kick your progressive azzes--that's what we're gonna do. Better than you progressives kissing Saudi azzes. Snark.
Siegfried X| 4.12.09 @ 7:20AM
As an independent conservative, I strongly disagree with this cartoon, which is basically a bald-faced lie. Like Republicans at the time, I _DO_ say the Black Hawk Down incident was a Democratic mistake. However, the mistake was fighting at all, in an internal war which had nothing to do with the security of the United States.
What happened was that Clinton, at the request of the UNITED NATIONS, took sides in a civil war, with a clan that were not terrorists or pirates. They had just personally offended the UN representative.
Red Phillips | 4.12.09 @ 10:09AM
"Tell "them" leave our ships and citizens alone or we bomb them back to Mohamed's birth. Only this time, we keep our word. "
Pablo, according to Christian Just War principles a response has to be proportionate and likely to achieve its objective.
"It is time for America to act in its best interests and tell the one world activists to kiss off."
Good we agree. But unilateral internationalist interventionism is not the opposite of multilateral internationalist interventionism. They are flip sides of the same internationalist coin. The opposite is non-interventionism or what the internationalist derisively (and wrongly) call isolationism. They understand that non-interventionism is the real challenge to their internationalist hegemony. That is why they inveigh against it more stridently than they do the others in their camp. Some of the neocons have praised Obama, for example, for NOT reversing Bush's policies.
jharp, I hope you are also at Kos and other liberal sites screaming to high heaven that Obama has EXPANDED Bush's wiretapping and surveillance authority. This was as predictable as clock work. If you were an honest liberal you would have voted for Nader, just as I, an honest conservative, voted for Chuck Baldwin.
S.L. Toddard| 4.12.09 @ 10:25AM
jcrap, going to bed with obummer? Dumb liberal fag (double pleonasm)
Don't be mistaken, jcrap, last election YOU lost because they left you out of the action and you're left with nothing to do but defecating on conservative websites. You're a pathetic liberal loser and you deserve no respect. Before the 2012 correction, you'll disappear for good.
Pablo| 4.12.09 @ 12:00PM
jharp
In typical left wing style you lie, deny, change the subject and start name calling.
Any attempt at having an intellectual dialog with you is a waste of time and effort.
Pablo| 4.12.09 @ 12:24PM
Red Phillips...
Christian Just War...
By Christian standards, is any war truly just?
My feelings run to "massive retaliation". Not very Christian, I know. However, it works. Actually the concept of "just war" goes back before the Birth of Christ and the theory is frequently updated.
My political beliefs are pro-freedom and anti U.N. America comes first. The teachings of our Founding Fathers are overwhelming correct, especially President George Washington advising against "foreign entanglements".
MT| 4.12.09 @ 4:53PM
Bush's military. Good job guys. We Conservatives support our fine military AND THE MISSION.
CH| 4.12.09 @ 5:00PM
Maybe Obama started to grow a pair after his bowing and scraping incident with the Saudi King. Navy Seals rock!!
Frosty| 4.12.09 @ 5:02PM
We're watching Obumbler closely--glad to see the Captain is okay. We will keep watching, too.
Tailgunner| 4.12.09 @ 8:45PM
Say what you want about Dubya....but we weren't hit after 9/11 by terrorists OR pirates.
Incidentally, Thomas Jefferson and John Adams met their Ambassador to Tripoli in London about the time of their troubles with the Barbary pirates.
The Ambassador told them he'd been informed by the pirates that they were obliged by their Muslim faith to make war on the infidels and kill or enslave all they met.
So as Islamist pirates obeyed Mohammed then, they follow the orders of their Prophet today.
Tell me they're not 'terrorists'.
Daphne| 4.12.09 @ 9:38PM
W is the man! And our great military! Thank you.
Jim| 4.12.09 @ 11:20PM
jharp,
Obama cut taxes? Too funny retard boy, keep the laughs up loser.
CW| 4.13.09 @ 5:05PM
"NOT TERRORISTS." Are those of you with that idiotic notion daft? If someone makes a threat with a machine gun pointed at you ... you have been terrorized.
Pingback| 4.14.09 @ 8:59PM
Steynian 345 « Free Canuckistan! links to this page. Here’s an excerpt:
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Steynian 345 | good morning america susan boyle links to this page. Here’s an excerpt:
Pingback| 4.28.09 @ 10:24PM
Steynian 345 | know thy congressman links to this page. Here’s an excerpt:
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