The American Spectator

drudge ette obama| 3.27.09 @ 6:26AM

First, Obama is not Affrican-American, he's a mutt (his own words) being half black, half white. He has as much in common with American blacks, culturally, as I do. He did not know his black father, and was pretty much raised by his white grandparents and schooled in nonblack environments. He has adopted the culture like a study on landscapes. But listen to his expressions and you'll hear his provincial grandmother speaking, not Redd Fox. Obama always seems uncomfortable talking about race, probably because he still hasn't internalized it inside. But he will ride the wave because it serves his purpose.

Notre Dame should be ashamed only because it is pandering and selling Catholic principles down the sewer, along with the fetuses. Notre Dame won't be ashamed because there is no difference between liberal professors at a nonreligiously-based schools than religiously-based schools.

Notre Dame is on its way to becoming just one more nonsecular Marxist indoctrination program. I am just sorry that the Irish have to be dragged down the gutter along with it.

By the way, I oppose the culturally devisive Irish mascot and demand that Notre Dame change it. Perhaps you could have a late-term abortion doctor as the new mascot. You can call him "Nine-Monther".

Peter Skurkiss| 3.27.09 @ 7:02AM

Notre Dame, like most other major "Catholic" univrsities, is a disgrace.

This whole situation shows just how corrupt the Catholic clergy, especially what passes for the leadership, has become. Too many of those in it are modernists looking to accomodate the world (and the Left) while most of the others are too weak & cowardly to do what is right. There are exceptions here and there, but they are the exceptions.

There will be no hope for the institutional Catholic Church until this damaged post-Vatican II generation of clergy dies out.

Melvin| 3.27.09 @ 7:18AM

To put in another way drudge ette obama, Barrack Obama is a bastard and so is the faculty, and Catholic leadership at Notre Dame, and the Pope should strip that den of Marxist vileness of it's Catholic title and excommunicate every Bishop, and Priest that does not support Catholic doctrine.
But unfortunately that has as much chance as Nancy Pelosi bleeding to death while shaving.
The Pope had his chance to rebuke Ms. Pelosi but instead he granted her and audience which in effect gives Ms. Pelosi a platform for her continuing destruction of the unborn.
Unfortunately the Catholic hierarchy is more interested in pursuing Alter boys rather than Catholic doctrine.
I lost all my respect for the Catholic Church when the local priest said, "He didn't have time to hear my wife's confession in her extreme hour of need.
To sum this all up: to hell with Obama, to hell with Pelosi, and to hell with the Catholic Church, we're on our own people.
Its a sad sad day when we cannot even find sanctuary with the Church.

David LeBlanc| 3.27.09 @ 7:25AM

Typical Catholic hierarchy move, suck up to political power no matter what.

This was a fine moment to make the Church stand out by standing up for its principles and they blew it very badly. Yes, they are against abortion, but really not that much. I mean, not if it gets in the way of anything really cool, such as a Presidential visit by the most radically pro-abortion President in history. So what, who cares?

Another stupid move and so frustratingly typical.

Bill Hussein O'Stalin| 3.27.09 @ 7:26AM

Welcome to the Communist monologue.

Rocco| 3.27.09 @ 7:34AM

To Mr. Skurkiss and Melvin, I say, AMEN. If you take the long view, we are in one of those moments in Church history where the institutional Church finds itself in a swamp of corruption and greed, as well as moral turpitude. In the past, we had saints like Athanasius, Francis of Assisi, Anthony of Padua, Bernard of Clairvaux, and many others of the East and West to help it find its way and get it back in sync with the principles of its Founder. Vatican II has done more to damage the Church than its enemies could ever hope for. As Mr. Skurkiss says, there is no hope until this generation of clerics dies off. Where are those saints, and who will they be? God only knows.

Wicked Dickie--Virginia| 3.27.09 @ 7:52AM

As of 0700 today, notredamescandal.com has over 180,000 signatures on a petition to this heretic Jenkins. Mr. Neumayr: with regard to your last paragraph, doesn't sitting in a "church" for 20 years listening to a racist ranter and subsquently appointing said racist as his "spiritual advisor" count as a "racist blot"? I urge all to sign the petition and if you are an alum, tell the heretics they'll get no more of your hard-earned money and why. I've talked to family and friends who voted for this charlatan (Obama-ayers) and even they are outraged. Most are having buyer's remorse as well.

TennesseeVolunteer| 3.27.09 @ 8:03AM

At first I was heartbroken by Notre Dame's blindness in conferring an 'honorary degree' on a serial aborter. Now, I am just plain mad!
If we in the Catholic Church are to stand up for the 'little ones', surely we must do it here.
If this politician was invited to debate abortion, i would have no problem, but to confer an award and let someone speak to the graduating class of a Catholic college who so clearly says one thing and does another, it is a moral travesty.
Notre Dame will regret this but we, in the Catholic Church, will not..because it will bring the controversy even more to the forefront and allow for the public declaration of principled stands on life!

Melvin| 3.27.09 @ 8:11AM

I greatly admire those that regularly post here at American Spectator and your valued opinions provide much needed solace, our own little Conservative Sanctuary if you will.
My wife of twenty-six years whose Catholic faith was instilled in her home country of the Philippines provided her with the faith that formed her into the woman she is today.
She was going through a particular hard part in her life after the death of her mother and she sought sanctuary in the local Catholic Parish in Jacksonville NC.
She wanted to attend confession and there was one other person in the confessional and my wife an I were the only ones waiting outside the confessional booth.
The Priest finished with the person and stepped out the booth with intentions to walk away, when my wife asked the priest to hear her confession, he turned to her in an annoyed way and replied, "I'm sorry, I don't have time, and you can come back next week." If you could have seen the look on my wife's face of total despair and outright rejection from her church that played so much a part of her life totally rejecting her. To her it is as if God said, "Hey I'm busy, come back later."
And to this very day my wife has refused the American Catholic Church.
I pleaded with the priest, "Please padre my wife really really needs to confess, her mother has passed and she needs you to hear her confession, and there is no one behind us, it won't take long."
He kept repeating, "I have to go, I'm sorry, come back next week," and he walked off with my wife in tears.
The hate and the anger that I felt for the priest and the Catholic church was enough to make me lay hands on a man of the cloth. I can't describe the rage that I felt toward this man of God and my wife in tears and I never felt so helpless as a man and a husband that I felt that day.
Why am I telling you all this? I suppose the attitude of the priest that day is what prevails in the Catholic Church today and is why the numbers of Catholics falling out of faith with the church is dropping. I guess you could say the Catholic leadership has lost it's faith in God.

TennesseeVolunteer| 3.27.09 @ 9:03AM

Melvin, please extend my kindest regards to your wife, she has been failed by an imperfect servant of the Church. Her feelings are certainly justified but the church needs her now more than ever.
Allow me to tell you a very quick story. My wife was a convert when we got married and, of course, is a better Catholic than me. My only claim into Heaven will be that I introduced her to the church!
But, to my story...My wife is a Catholic School Headmaster and has brought a failing school to a thriving school busting at the seams, able to raise large amounts of funds for scholarships and is a model for distance learning for any school, public or private throughout the country. I know that some student she has touched will one day do something great that will affect the world and my wife will have been a small part of that.
Your wife, and my wife, are the new leaders of our Catholic Church. Once in awhile, we will see a clergyman become a leader who we can be proud of. But the clergy is not the church, your wife and mine are the real Church. The clergy in America is dying out, my wife's school founding order is dying out. But a different one that my wife is familiar with, who wears habits and has again assumed the true mantle of the Church (not environmentalism)just like the ones we grew up in' is thriving!
With all due respect, please let your wife know that there are millions of us who have been disappointed by the church (The Notre Dame commencement for one) but can we disappoint our Church by not demanding that they act like the leaders they should be. Shame on them for sure but we shouldn't let it be shame on us.
Your friend and fellow sinner,
Tennessee Volunteer

Rick Josey| 3.27.09 @ 9:08AM

I'm not a Catholic, but I am PROUD of the Roman Catholics who PROTESTED Obama's invitation to speak.

Stand up for your rights, and the rights of the unborn. To confer an "honorary" degree upon a calloused so-called leader who believes in infanticide is an outrage. Just because Obama snookered the masses and got himself elected does not make him a leader.

The real leaders in America are those among WE THE PEOPLE who take a stand for our fellow citizens. Especially the helpless among us.

We salute all of you principled Catholics. You are patriots.

www.PatriotHangout.com

GoldTmmys| 3.27.09 @ 9:29AM

As a practicing Catholic, I am both ashamed and upset at Notre Dame and some of the Clergy of my faith. Obama is everything the Catholic Church is against.........................so why promote the guy???
I guess the rumor is true/for the Catholic Church................"Do as I say, not as I do"!!!

Bob in USA| 3.27.09 @ 9:30AM

I am a practicing Catholic and I am once again furious at my church. The church demands I protect life. It demands I remain in grace to receive communion. And yet, it ignores its own doctrine. It gives communion to politictions who ignore church doctrine and now it honors them too. It is of little wonder to me why Catholics only follow the rules they like. I'm disgusted!

Ed | 3.27.09 @ 9:33AM

TennesseeVolunteer, very moving post. I am not Catholic but ALL of my encounters (mostly at funerals) with Catholic priests have been so inspiring, I considered converting. They were a breath of fresh air because they followed the scriptures and doctrines of the church, not their own whims. Hopefully there are more priests like the ones I have encountered than those in Melvin's post. I beleive you must follow the doctrines of the church which are from God and not put too much faith in individual priests who are, after all, human and imperfect.

Tiger| 3.27.09 @ 9:40AM

Well.........when Notre Dame (as is the case in most Div 1's) allows non-qualified 'student athletes' to play football for decades, kids with criminal backgrounds, kids who committ all type of crimes on campus (sexual and otherwise) kids with absolutely no business being on campus other than to play football, and the administration allows it for decades and engages in the folly and cover-ups.....what the hell do you expect?!?!

All moral authority thrown away for..........football?

E. Patrick Mosman | 3.27.09 @ 9:52AM

Father Jenkins is being disingenuous and dishonest when he argues that inviting President Obama to address the graduating class and receive an honorary doctorate is a 'dialogue.' He and the Jesuits at Georgetown and America Magazine obviously seek to reach some accommodation with Mr. Obama, a negotiated truce promising fewer abortions by more government good works, an approach that Jesus Christ rejected, negotiate with evil, when he rejected the devil's temptations three times. Like the devil, Mr. Obama wraps his abortion views in terms that are intended to lure Catholics into negotiations or acceptance of abortions for a promise of good faith efforts in other areas. Apparently some 'Catholics' with their subjective conscience have swallowed Mr. Obama's lure. How would history treat Churchill, Roosevelt and Pope Pious XII if they had tried to negotiate a lower extermination rate of Jews, the mental and physical handicapped, the religious and better working condition for the forced laborers? The Catholic Church honored the Saints and martyrs who gave their lives in defense of the Church's beliefs and teachings rather than enter into negotiations and dialogues with those whose goal and intent is to destroy the Church.

Nick| 3.27.09 @ 9:57AM

Mr. Neumayr, excellent essay. I would quibble with your nomenclature though.

Joe Biden, et al, are not Roman Catholics. They are Pseudo-catholics, or catholics in name only (cino's), take your pick. While Baptism lasts forever, remaining in a state of grace or a member of the Body of Christ does not.
Liberals who claim they are Catholic left the Church to worship Baal and Ceasar.

KB| 3.27.09 @ 9:59AM

I'm afraid some of you are mistaking the teaching authority and hierarchy of the Catholic Church for a few priests. The president of Notre Dame, while a priest, does not constitute the hierarchy of the Church.

The bishop of the diocese where ND resides has refused to attend the ceremony in which BHO will be honored. The bishop likely has acted behind the scenes to convince the university president of the error of honoring a person like BHO. However, the bishop may not even have any administrative authority over the university. It is presumtuous to suggest that the bishop can, or should, do anything else.

Melvin, in particular paints the Church with an unfair brush. You wouldn't think to throw the complete US military under the bus for the actions of a few of its foot soldiers. But that is what is done by denigrating the entire Catholic Church for the actions of one priest or even several. Priests are, by the way, people. They, like all of us, are of a fallen nature and subject to sin and error. I am sorry the priest was not willing to hear your wife’s confession. I can assure you the attitude you preceived in that priest is not the attitude of the Church at large.

Melvin, you might be interested to read what the Vatican had to say about Pelosi’s visit. The Pope rebuked her stand against life and refused to make it a political photo opportunity. The Pope is still a shepard of the people and he attempted to use the opportunity to pull Pelosi back into the fold. That she refused may have been predictible, but it is the obligation of the Catholic faithful, particularly the Pope, to continue to bring the Gospel to people (including Pelosi) even when it is difficult.

I share Melvin’s frustration with those priests, bishops and religious sisters who teach contrary to Catholic doctrine. It is far more incideous for someone to claim to be a Catholic and attempt to tear apart the church from the inside through lies and misinformation, than to claim to be something else and deride the Church as an identifiable opponent. In the same way, I am frustrated with politicians, who claim to be patriots, but seek to destroy our nation from within.

Mr. LeBlanc’s statement that the Church is “really not that much” against abortion couldn’t be more false. The Church couldn’t be any more clear on this issue. Human life must be protected from the moment of conception to natural death – doesn’t sound like waffling to me. Again, just because the actions of a few bad Catholics (or Catholics in name only) he chooses to paint the entire Church with a broad and negative brush.

Rocco, I presume what you meant to say was the mis-implementation of Vatican II “has done more damage to the Church than its enemies could ever hope for.” The documents of Vatican II, which are the official statements and conclusions of Vatican II are not damaging at all. What is damaging is mis-information and mis-teaching by many lay theologians and religious within the church. This does not convict the episcopate or the hierarchy or the Church herself, but should serve to show the faithful that it is essencial they inform themselves as to the Church’s true teaching.

Rose| 3.27.09 @ 10:09AM

Surely there is someone higher than Rev. Jenkins who can overrule him and bring some light to this dark situation. Is he truly the final word on this controversy? What a prideful, arrogant view he has of his own opinion. I pray that he once again becomes the obedient humble servant he promised to be when he took his vows. If all else fails, maybe the Holy Spirit will take Obama and Jenkins and knock their heads together, putting some sense into both.

Nick| 3.27.09 @ 10:10AM

drudge ette obama,

I not only find the Notre Dame mascot divisive, as a Polish-Croatian-English-Welsh-Canadian-American I am offended by that green midget. How dare he hoard all that gold and beat people with a club? And don't get me started on the "luck of the Irish", a la John Belushi.

Nick| 3.27.09 @ 10:17AM

I may be mistaken, but I don't think the local bishop has any authority over colleges and universities that call themselves "Catholic" within his diocese.

The most a bishop can do is demand the institution stop calling itself "Catholic". I could be wrong though.

Joseph| 3.27.09 @ 10:25AM

Thank God for this travesty!

Our bright, articulate and Catholic 19 year old daughter had Notre Dame on the top of her (and our) list for her University of choice.

We can now with a clear concience cross this failed CATHOLIC institution off the list. Just in time we found out the truth.

Father John Jenkins is a clown and just one more of those so called Catholics who so embarassed the Church during the last elections.

Bill Croke| 3.27.09 @ 10:41AM

Well, this along with the continuing pedophile scandal, it's no wonder the pews are empty. As for the Jesuits, in four centuries they've gone from martyrs to inquisitors to moral degenerates.

Doctor Right| 3.27.09 @ 10:56AM

When will conservative American Catholics finally wake-up and realize that serious rot has crept into their Church??

At least half of their fellow congregants don't believe in, and have no intention of believeing in the Church's official doctrines...To which, I must ask, beg the question:

Then WHY are they Catholic?!?!?

I had a friend, a Catholic, who explained it to me thusly: He was, what he liked to call, "C.C."..."Casual Catholic". He said he was "C.C." because he was born that way, and it was part of his life. He went to Church on Sundays (or Saturday night), but didn't really pay attention. He was pro-choice, a staunch Democrat, and couldn't care less about what the Pope would say...But don't EVER tell him he's not a Catholic.

Those Catholic Conservatives who still remain MUST demand pressure from above, even from Rome if need be, to either force these recalcitrant "Casual Catholics" back into the fold, or force them out with the power of excommunication.

In the sake of full disclosure, I must say that I am an ex-Catholic myself. I left the Church for several reasons, none of which are appropriate to go into at this time except to say that the crux of this article is not far-off from one of those reasons. My entire family remain Catholics, and always will be Catholic, so I'm not unfamiliar with the Church. Even though I now associate myself with a different Church, I have tremendous respect and admiration for the Catholic stance on abortion, which I believe is the main support-beam of the anti-abortion movement.

Regardless, I remain disgusted by the leftward drift of the Catholic CHurch, and by Rome's intransigence on the issue of wayward American Catholics, ESPECIALLY high-profile wayward Catholics like Nancy Pelosi, John Kerry, Ted Kennedy, and Joe Biden.

These people should have been publicly excommunicated. They are openly defying the Church's stated position on abortion. They are heretics, and their heresy does not involve a minor point of doctrine - it involves the slaughter of the unborn. Rome's failure to act on this issue lends tacit approval, and if anyone disagrees, please not how Nancy Pelosi shamelessly publicized her trip to Rome. The Vatican issued a statement that disagreed with her own, but thyat did not stop her from using the trip as political propaganda, and the message received by many "Casula Catholics" was: "It's OK to be pro-choice".

No Catholic College or University should grant an honorary degree to Barack Obama. American Catholics should be universally outraged.

One sincerely hopes that the Pope's intransigence on this issue is not somehow related to the weekly flow of dollars to Rome that "Casual Catholics" still send...One hopes.

ValricoJoe| 3.27.09 @ 10:59AM

When will the church learn? Look at what happened in Russia, Poland, Germany, Italy, France, et. al. before and during WWI and WWII through today. They go along with the tyrants and despots until such time as the despots find their minions of no use then they become the persecuted. The church has lost so much by backing dictators, working against the USA in every step, not consistent in enforcing the rules by allowing the Pelosi, Kennedy's and Kerry's et. al. to take communion, preach hate, divisiveness, euthanasia, abortion and sin at will? We the people cannot do this without repercussion, so the church condones these actions, works to vilify the rich, many of whom are conservative and give unselfishly to the church, more than the Kennedy's, et. al. They are the reason for the pedophile priest being shipped from parish to parish. Like politicians, we have lost trust in the church because of their support for the liberals who are working to destroy the same church. Wake up, your task is great, your integrity is lacking.

Jerry| 3.27.09 @ 11:00AM

KB,
Thank you for putting some things in their proper perspective. I too have had several occasions to be baffled and/or frustrated by the actions of priests, but as ministers whose souls bear an indelible mark, and who are empowered to act "in persona Christi", they need our prayers rather than our public rebuke. They are much more of a 'high-value' target for Satan, due to their priestly office, which is why their failures are much more scandalous than the failings of their fellow fallen (lay) brothers.

From St. Catherine of Siena's Dialogue, God speaking about his “ministers,” the priests:

"…[It] is my intention that they be held in due reverence, not for what they are in themselves, but for my sake, because of the authority I have given them. Therefore the virtuous must not lessen their reverence, even should these ministers fall short in virtue. And, as far as the virtues of my ministers are concerned, I have described them for you by setting them before you as stewards of... my Son’s body and blood and of the other sacraments. This dignity belongs to all who are appointed as such stewards, to the bad as well as to the good.

"…[Because] of their virtue and because of their sacramental dignity you ought to love them. And you ought to hate the sins of those who live evil lives. But you may not for all that set ourselves up as their judges; this is not my will because they are my Christs, and you ought to love and reverence the authority I have given them."

Domer74| 3.27.09 @ 11:10AM

I emailed Father Jenkins as a disgruntled alumnus

In addition to the abortion issue, I also alluded to Obama's association with a racist church with a radical pastor. I expressed doubt that our previous white Presidents would have been allowed to do such a thing.
I also likened Margaret Sanger to Barack Obama as she was for abortion and like Barack, had an elevated view of her race. I posited awarding her a posthumous honorary degree as well.
Lastly I proposed that William Ayers show up at Notre Dame and discuss non violence in their "Peace Studies " program.
For those of you who think ND is a den of radicalism , google "Our Lady Queen of Class". I will let the article speak for itself. Further ask yourself if such a thing would occur at your Alma Mater.

Tim| 3.27.09 @ 11:12AM

This is just another reason to loose what little respect I had for Notre Dame. Being a sports geek, I have always dispised the sports media attention and fawning adoradion given to a mediocre and failing football program for the past 15 years . . . hell, they have their own network TV station schilling for them every Saturday in the fall.
Now, one of the basic core principles of the Catholic church, is being pushed aside for the baby killing president to come speak at commencement. Way to go Notre Dame!!

ame| 3.27.09 @ 11:20AM

I am appalled that any school has invited Bill Ayers to speak. Apparently, those schools do not take academic expectations seriously, and by that I mean requiring academics to be an exploration of facts and theories presented to students in an objective manner and demanding that students read, research, assess, conclude, and analyze based on their findings and supported academic sources. Education is a critical study, one that demands thought and principle. Academics require a faculty to adhere to an ethical commitment to be objective in presentation of material and allow students a forum for open and critical analysis of that material. Forced and limited political ideology has no place in academics and that is what Ayers "preaches" and symbolizes.

Education is not propaganda and is not indoctrination, both of which form the platform of Bill Ayers. His concept of "education" fits the "education" of a madrasa, which forbids thinking, judgment, thoughtfulness, and learning while insisting on "skills" and "outcome." Human beings are not machines to be programmed, much less programmed to hate and react. Education is not external, not imposed. Bill Ayers' educational ideology is anathema to learning through critical thinking. His educational ideology is anathema to democracy and freedom.
Any school's invitation to Ayers negates freedom and openness in education and fails to protect and promote for students and faculty what is their right as individuals and what is their right under the first amendment of our Constitution: freedom of speech that is founded on truth and incorporating a detailed and scholarly analysis based on merits and faults. Education is what is to be accomplished – learning the process of knowing: a free process of critical assessment, which is at the very heart of what it means to be human. Education is a chance to make our own the majesty of ideas, and the freedom to create new ideas so that we are what we know in the finest sense. Then and only then is knowledge power - personal autonomy and a directing sense of otherness.
What Bill Ayers the mad bomber anarchist symbolizes is ignorance in all its disdainful, dismissive, and dangerous limitations. Ayers represents all that education is not: following directions, programmed reaction, use of biased data, any means to any ends.

Those who truly love learning set about to eliminate ignorance because we know that ignorance is suffering and the pain of eternal loss. Ignorance is to cage the human heart and mind. It is the ultimate threat to freedom and so is Ayers' belief and action that he can take another's life because he wills it. He is, in essence, an unrepentant murderer who advocates revolution for its own sake to fulfill whatever one "believes." His hate spun speech has nothing to do with education - process is not all. Education also demands ethics.

Lincoln warned us that a democracy must have principle, not just process. Democracies demand principle, demand judgment, and demand action based on principle because that is the very heart of freedom and the very essence of being human. That is what education is all about. That is our “inalienable right” protected by our Constitution and among the most important of the gifts of our Founding Fathers. That is why so many are willing to die to preserve it, and if people in power do not protect it, we will lose it to the likes of those who misuse it for their own ends: those who are unwilling to die themselves, but are willing to kill to achieve those ends.

Any school's invitation to Ayers is not only pathetic, it screams of ignorance of academics and startles in its full acceptance of no responsibility and enforcement of the Crayola curriculum of Dewey, Bloom, and the misguided education establishment that emphasizes self-esteem, the use of others, and biased data to destroy what Socrates, Maimonides, and Aquinas knew was at the center of what it means to know – to be one with reality’s essence.

How terrible for any school that its president could have led the way, but chose to follow and surrender his responsibility to academics to the two- bit thug Ayers, now posing as an "educator," who bombed his own country and still spews class warfare and terrorism as if they have something to do with knowledge. Just because the University of Chicago recognizes Ayers as someone of purpose and position does not make that so. What a disgrace. Schools need to swallow that dissembling equivocation whole and spit it back out all over its campus. Ayers said : I'm not going to align myself at this late date with those who want to make war heroes out of criminals" and institutions of learning should not align themselves with those who want to make heroes out of terrorist Marxist villains and promote them as something worth respect. Any school that has joined the ignorant Ayers' goon parade has denigrated itself and the USA in the process.

Disgusted with schools such as Notre Dame and Georgetown, both of which pretend to be Catholic, but are as secular as any state school. They have joined all other schools that invite Ayers and are now "universities of no moral conscience...spineless in spreading dissembling equivocation and calling it "education."

ame| 3.27.09 @ 11:24AM

Notre Dame has invited Barack Obama, baby killer, to speak.
Obama's willingness to allow infants to be killed after they are born after botched abortions is barbarian.
That alone disqualifies Obama from any voter of any conscience - any moral center - much less Catholics and Evangelicals.
Obama said the first thing he will do as president is sign a bill that allows NO restrictions on abortions and that means, for all intent and purpose, killing babies and Obama has no qualms with that.
Obama has no moral and no ethical core - he is solipsistic and so falsely egotistical as to be a clear danger to any freedom loving nation. Killing babies is anathema to any civilized nation and any person who condones killing babies is the lowest of cowards - step forward Barack Obama.
THIS IS THE BEST NOTRE DAME CAN DO?
Has Notre Dame removed the crucifixes from their classroom walls like that "Catholic" school Georgetown?

Heather| 3.27.09 @ 11:29AM

This is not a victory for Obama--it's a defeat for Notre Dame and Father Clown Jenkins. Jesuits have been morally bankrupt for a long time. Prostitute priests.

CS Lewis| 3.27.09 @ 11:34AM

BH Obama, The Abortion President of The United States, a mockery of life and liberty. He's not just mocking Christians with his big grins and haughty words but he's up against God and God will not be mocked!
Plain and simple, Obama is dealing with the devil.
How soon do you think we will hear from the Pope about this disgrace? It's very sad.

Jeremiah| 3.27.09 @ 11:35AM

Nick --

I'm glad I now know that our new pope, Pope Nick, is laying down the law on who is and who is not a Catholic.

As a recent convert, it's important for me to get regular updates that my practice of the religion is entirely false, and that because I vote for a Democrat, I might as well stay home on Sunday morning.

It's also edifying to learn that someone -- you -- is wise enough that you can see into the hearts of politicians and even determine their culpability in the eyes of God. What's it like to be so privileged?

whiterb| 3.27.09 @ 11:40AM

Those of you who are devout in your faith need to understand your plight. Politically and culturally you are being slaughtered. I am a political agnostic, a craven pragmatist. The key is 218 republicans in the house and 50 in the senate. In the days we had such numbers, you folks had many a seat at the table and respectful people listen to your concerns. You at least held the line. You at least got half a loaf or more. but, so often you attacked your own, people you called Rinos, who were only reflecting the beliefs of their districts in some of their votes. 100 per cent or nothing was and is your battle cry. You seek not to form coalitions, to form a republican party of many big tents that will be a counter force to the left wing machine that is only now beginiing to move. You can't win alone. You need a bigger army. Soon, what is left of the real Catholic Church will be targeted and destroyed. Obama and the gang will soon have it by the throat. They will make it even easier to sue churches into extinction-a conservative/rino congress would not allow that. They will use tax law to limit charitable contributions to churches and make them more reliant on tax dollars-a conservative/rino congress would never have allowed such action. But you all seethed at rinos every time they showed some independence from your conservative dogma. You cheered when people like Shays, or Gordan Smith lost, rather than support them. You still insist some Limbaugh sanctioned platform can win across the board. I do hope you are correct, but I just truly believe you are wrong. More slaughters ahead, or at best a slow slog to a few more seats here or there. As for the cultural forces aligned against us, the media conglomerates that are benefiting just like everyone else from this bailout, were is the plan to assault them in the pocketbook ? Where is the smart well thought out economic boycott proposal to really hurt these crummy people ? You, the devout, the true blue conservative won't cancel your cable for even three months to give them a jolt. I guess you can always pray.

Jeremiah| 3.27.09 @ 11:41AM

CS Lewis --

By taking such a name, you (probably unwittingly) set up some mighty expectations. I think you need to do a little more reading and thinking before you are quite up to sounding anything like Prof. Lewis.

"Abortion President of the United States"?

I believe abortion is wrong, and I believe that the law should prevent more abortions than it does.

It is, however, possible to become drunk on moral self-righteousness -- on this issue more than most.

Democratic politicians do not march women to abortion clinics. Many have simply concluded that the Constitution could not withstand the kind of invasive governmental activity that a complete ban on abortions would necessitate. I don't happen to agree with that view; however, I think we all have a responsibility to temper our arguments and have some sense that people who disagree with us might be something other than the embodiment of pure evil we imagine them to be. And to question our own reasons for seeking such an embodiment in others -- since pious sanctimony is so often just a mask for false pride.

CS Lewis| 3.27.09 @ 11:53AM

BH Obama - The Joyful Abortion President of The United States. You voted for him Jeremiah,
so you are responsible for the mocking of God also. Suck it up!

Jeremiah| 3.27.09 @ 11:59AM

Lewis --

"Suck it up."

Brilliant commentary, really.

Only, if I had voted for the other team -- and I promise, were St. Michael himself to appear before me and order me to vote Republican, I'd perish a thousand deaths in hell first -- I would have simply cast my vote for the party that cynically manipulates the ire and passion of pro-life voters, never ONCE having taken anything like a brave stand on the issue or sacrificing so much as a percentage point of political capital to the cause. I respect people of good faith who protest Roe V Wade and the cynical manipulation of women that often takes place in the so-called "pro-choice" camp; I do not respect flame-throwing zealots who cannot prevail upon themselves to see the complexity of the issues at stake.

Jeannine| 3.27.09 @ 12:01PM

MELVIN,
I am so sorry your wife experienced that no confession nonsense from the parish priest. A Catholic can not be denied the Sacrament of Penance under any condition. He should have at least given her general absolution if he was in such a rush. I would have immediately reported him to the bishop. Take comfort in knowing that God saw the horrible event & justice will eventually be served. Please do not condemn the Church because of this incident; come back & you will find many good, caring priests who serve faithfully.

Don L| 3.27.09 @ 12:02PM

I know this much about the faux "dialogue" excuse, which pretends that the goal of the secualar education coming out of Notre Dame today, is to seek the truth. It is in fact, but a diabolical attempt to darken the light of Christ.

That moral deflection aside, one can judge this issue quite easily by recalling the Sermon on the Mount. Christ sought no dialogue with the Father of Lies and even more so, correctly, as our Shephard, banned him from the event.

Jenkins would eagerly invite the largest wolf into the sheep pen.

All the wailing and gnashing of teeth is not waiting until after judgment - moral people are suffering this torment now.

How appropriate during Lent when we are invited to share Christ's cross.

Jeremiah| 3.27.09 @ 12:03PM

And had I voted Republican I would have supported the party that does everything in its power to prevent care for poor children once they ARE born, the party that fights tirelessly for cuts in education and healthcare for children, the party that sees its reason for being as supporting the interests of the wealthiest 5% of the population.

I remember when Pope John Paul II issued his opinion on the Iraq War. Although not an outright condemnation, the pope was clearly not supportive, and your "pro life" party cheerfully ignored him, leading to the violent deaths of tens if not hundreds of thousands of people. But by all means, please lecture me on the superiority of your morality -- because I'm really interested to hear it.

Jeremiah| 3.27.09 @ 12:05PM

To my certain knowledge, I have persuaded three adults who are politically liberal to rethink their stance on abortion (four, if I count myself). My approach does not impugn their morality. I do not shout bold accusations. I try to use reason and I try to be patient.

How many have you convinced to change their minds? Three's a pretty big number, at least on this issue. Have you convinced more by howling your threats and insults?

John II| 3.27.09 @ 12:08PM

Jeremiah: Some useful response on your part, thanks. But you may be carrying the non-judgmental stuff further than it can stretch. You don't hesitate to go after people whom you judge to be judgmental, so in that regard the gist of your witness sort of collapses.

To recapitulate the (characteristically difficult) orthodox Christian teaching on the judgment thing, Christians are charged with a dual mandate: (1) never, ever dare to judge the person (Matt. 7.1, for example), but (2) never, ever fail to judge the person's actions (e.g., first few chapters of Paul's letter to the Romans--which "progressive" Christians tend to ignore, by the way).

For a stunning discussion of this juggling act required of all Christians, try Chapter VI of Chesterton's "Orthodoxy": "The Paradoxes of Christianity." Or read lots of Evelyn Waugh's fiction. Or . . . well, you get the idea.

Robert Martin| 3.27.09 @ 12:09PM

Right on the money with this article...and Jeremiah, you try to degrade those that stand for the truth with your term "moral self-righteous", but it sounds to me like you are confusing a hunger for righteousness and legalism. Study a little hard my friend in God's Word so you will understand the difference. If you are not willing to defend the innocent and bear witness to the truth, and stand up for what is right, then leave that up to the rest of us and step aside without cutting down those that will be the foundation for Christian values and beliefs. We are all part of a body, and we all have different functions. Let us do our part if you are not called to it.

Don L| 3.27.09 @ 12:18PM

After rereading some of the commentors who had a run in with a un-Catholic acting "priest" and consequently left God's Church that He gave you as the means of being with Him in heaven - horrible self-inflicted mistake.

Just meditate upon Jesus Himself, who's hand-picked apostle Judas betrayed Him with death.
The Church continued -the faithful continued - the grace, sacraments and certainty of the truth remain - sinful priests aren't sufficient reason to get off the path to heaven. Think again and pray harder. Perseverance is essential.

Nick| 3.27.09 @ 12:22PM

Jerry,

Excellent reminder! Christ will handle His presbyters.
We need to pray for them. It is our human fallen nature that demands human retribution for these ignorant priests. It is not our job as laymen to demand punishment or excommunication. We are to "Pray therefore the Lord of the harvest to send forth laborers into His harvest." And pray for them to repent.

Notre Dame is a perfect example of what Pope Leo XIII warned about over a century ago: "Americanism". He recognized that the Roman Catholic Church in America was all too willing to accommodate Protestants to get along and gain acceptance.

Joellen| 3.27.09 @ 12:41PM

CALL POPE BENEDICT and ask him to intervene on this serious injustice to our Lady's Church. Do not allow Father Jenkins to get away with letting the DEVIL have his say. Call, pray and if need be, be there in solidarity for those young men and women who understand the evil and craven stand Ft Jenkins is giving voice to.

Jeremiah| 3.27.09 @ 12:41PM

John II

As far as I understand the Church's teaching (and my understanding is very limited and entirely fallible), we are charged to understand any action within three contexts or horizons: the objective nature of the action; the circumstances under which it was taken; and the intention behind it. Our inability to judge a person's culpability is tied to the modest epistemological claim of the Church: the fact is, we cannot know what Joe Biden's culpability is for his support of Roe V Wade, and once you enter into the murky area of governance, where these ethical issues become even more complicated.

Again, I am not a philosopher and I'm certainly not a theologian or priest. But even if abortion is determined to be objectively sinful, it does not follow that Democratic politicians who support Roe V Wade are so apostate that declaring them unfit to be Catholics is the prerogative of any one that I know.

I will say this. The culture of life that Pope John Paul II preached -- and it was that man and this teaching that made me want to become a Catholic -- is not in my opinion encouraged or supported by howling accusations at John Kerry or Joe Biden. Or Obama, for that matter.

Rocco| 3.27.09 @ 12:46PM

KB, your assumption is correct. My take on that, particularly since I was studying to be a priest at that time, was that the council documents, the premises for which were sound and seemingly "okay" in light of the Church's traditional teachings, were vague, lacking in the clarity provided in past councils. This then, opened the door to misinterpretations which have led us to where we are today. The council was also pastoral, not doctrinal as the councils of Vatican I, Trent, etc. Even so, a pastoral council reaffirms doctrine laid down in previous doctrinal councils. Those who have been doing the misinterpreting have also misunderstood this point and have taken their own misinterpretations to be (new) doctrine. In this day and age, with the level of education, I would consider it almost obligatory for a Catholic to educate him/herself on their Catholic faith. The resources are out there, and the best place to start is to read the Scriptures, then the Fathers of the Church, and then the council documents, starting with Nicaea, all of which is available now on the Internet. Doing so gives a solid foundation in the faith, an appreciation for our beliefs and the tools to defend our faith (apologetics).

Melvin, as a former seminarian and now-retired Marine, my heart goes out to you and your wife. As many others have said in their posts, there are many good conscientious priests out there who take their ministry seriously. Your misfortune was to have to deal with a jerk who doesn't. God bless you and her and provide her consolation.

Jerry, thank you for your post and quote from St. Catherine. There are good priests and bad priests, good bishops and bad bishops. Jesus Himself showed us this by appointing Judas as one of the Twelve. Through His divine nature, He already knew Judas would betray Him, but He chose him nonetheless. We need to keep that in mind.

Jeremiah| 3.27.09 @ 12:55PM

On the issue of abortion, I will say this: I'd rather fight my fellow Democrats on two or three life issues (abortion, stem cell research, and so on) than join the Republican issue and spend every hour of the day fighting on every other issue under the sun.

What I cannot accept is to the too-easy tendency to believe the following:

Abortion is wrong, therefore capital gains tax cuts are right -- which I'm afraid to say is exactly what the Republican party is counting on.

I do lament the loss of millions of Catholics from Democratic ranks. The Democratic party fought for Catholics; fought for the unions that allowed my Irish grandfather to enter the middle class. We've had one Catholic president, and he was a Democrat, and his (more devout brother) would have been president, too, were it not for an assassin's bullet.

Liberalism is the antidote to the dour excesses of socialism and the fascistic consequences of corporatism; it is in keeping with basic Catholic teachings about good government and the duties that attend human rights. Liberalism was the philosophic creed that fought for the horrible anti-Catholic bigotry that greeted immigrants from Europe in this country and that still exists within the Republican ranks.

Although I acknowledge there is serious work to do in my party, with serious moral consequences, my conscience is clear, and the Republican philosophy seems to me no more than Moloch-worship -- the nihilism that overtakes those who believe that a thing is only and always worth what the market says its worth.

Nick| 3.27.09 @ 12:56PM

Jeremiah,

Why must you constantly make false attributions?
Where did I write if you vote democrat you shouldn't go to Mass?

As a recent convert, I'll forgive your ignorance of the One, True Faith. Please study the Catechism some more. (I'm not an expert, I have plenty more to learn myself. I plan on being finished the second I die.)

When it comes to Biden, Pelosi, etc., it doesn't take wisdom. As B.O. might say, someone in the Special Olympics can understand bleeding heart, liberal, Pseudo-catholic politicians have rejected their faith.
(That is a shot at B.O., not at people in the Special Olympics! Don't twist my words. Their childlike innocence is something we should all strive for. When it comes to recognizing evil, they are wiser than most Ph.D. holders. Their love is an example of Christ's.)

Actions speak louder than mere words. Liberal pols show whom they trust by those actions. They are the ones who have made themselves pope and decide what is or is not moral, not I. You have to live the Roman Catholic faith, Jeremiah, not just proclaim it on Sunday.

Jeremiah| 3.27.09 @ 12:57PM

Nick --

Well, then I'm happy there is no disagreement between us for once.

Jeremiah| 3.27.09 @ 12:59PM

I certainly am making no argument for myself as an authority on Catholic teaching. I am a new convert, I am delighted to have been accepted into the Church, and I am still very ignorant and probably hopelessly so.

Nick| 3.27.09 @ 1:22PM

Jeremiah,

Then why did you attribute to me thoughts I never expressed (i.e., voting democrat means you shouldn't go to Mass)?

DarkKnight| 3.27.09 @ 1:25PM

Perhaps Notre Dame will honor Bishop Williamson to show how it embraces differences in academic opinion and wide-ranging expressions of faith?

Doctor Right| 3.27.09 @ 1:28PM

@Jeremiah

Jerry:

Abortion IS wrong.

Capital gains tax cuts ARE right.

But what does one have to do with the other???

How does preserving the life of an unborn child have ANYHTHING at all to do with cutting taxes on profits due to sales of stocks/bonds/etc???

Please explain...

[...crickets...]

Jerry| 3.27.09 @ 1:45PM

Jeremiah,
You're correct: hyperbole and ideological (or political party) absolutism are not conducive to constructive dialogue or debate, but it IS a two-way street. Does the Republican party truly do 'everything in its power' to prevent health care, education, etc. to the poor/young/disadvantaged, or do they merely disagree with the means that the other side endorses to solve the shortcomings? And I doubt they see their "reason for being as supporting the interests of the wealthiest 5% of the population" any more than "Democratic politicians...march women to abortion clinics". However, Pope Benedict, to combat the false premises of the 'Seamless Garment' that has been promoted by dissenting clergy for so many election cycles, pointed out that abortion is intrinsically evil. The human toll of war is ALWAYS tragic (a sentiment expressed by Pope John Paul II), but war can be deemed just, which means it is NOT intrinsically evil. If civilians, regardless of age, are deliberately targeted in war (as they are in abortion), it would be evil. If children and other non-combatants are inadvertently killed during the conduct of a war, it is tragic but does not make war in general, or that war in particular, unjust and evil, which is why the cries of hypocrisy and comparisons between 'Bush's War' and the genocide of >45M of our own children is a flawed argument (as a pro-lifer, I'm not attributing that comparison to you).
The only way to combat the Culture of Death that is rotting our society from the inside out, is through prayer, fasting and almsgiving. Lent is a perfect time to re-dedicate ourselves to this task, as we contemplate Our Lord's (ongoing) passion.

John II| 3.27.09 @ 1:46PM

"But even if abortion is determined to be objectively sinful, it does not follow that Democratic politicians who support Roe V Wade are so apostate that declaring them unfit to be Catholics is the prerogative of any one that I know."

Hi again, Jeremiah. I think your take on this issue is a tad squishy, and I would guess that the squishiness comes more from marination in the culture than from soaking in the words of John Paul II.

But consider: That guess I just made falls under what you call "circumstances"; the guess may or may not be right, or may be only somewhat or imperfectly right (probably the latter, assuming I have half-decent literary instincts). But the guess and the circumstances do not matter to the objective issue, to which you (rightly, I believe) give first priority. There's a lot I might take issue with in your response, but let's cut to the heart of it, quoted above.

1. There's no question in Church teaching about whether abortion is "objectively sinful"--so let's dispense with the if-clause, okay?

2. The point is, abortion is objectively evil, utterly regardless of the circumstances or the intention of the perpetrators. And, although things can get complicated at this point (partly because a certain stripe of rather icy moral philosopher injects irrelevant complications), the particular evil of abortion is of a particularly heinous consequence to civic well-being: it undermines a key first principle on which all less basic legal and political arrangements depend for their cogency. That principle has been articulated in various ways by natural law philosophers, but my favorite is this: Life must be cherished. Undermine that principle, and everything else in civic life starts crumbling. The evidence of such disintegration is abundant, but notice especially how the "debate" over abortion devolved in just 20 years from whether the unborn may be killed within the first trimester of pregnancy to whether children emerging from the womb may be killed (infanticide). And don't get me on the topic of the direction euthanasia is obviously taking.

3. There are no degrees of apostasy. One is either apostate or isn't. Either you accept all of Roman Catholic teaching, or you are not a Roman Catholic. Sounds harsh in our squishy era, but think about it. The word "heretic" comes from a Greek verb meaning to pick and choose for oneself. As St. Paul says in Corinthians (and St. Augustine seems to say about once every few pages in his voluminous writings), heretics are important to the life of the Church because they force the faithful to think more carefully about what they really believe. But they are still heretics.

4. It is the "prerogative" of the Roman Catholic bishops to declare on "fitness" for membership in the Church's communion. Period. That's their job. It is, of course, a matter of prudential judgment to decide on how one should go about such declarations in a manner consonant with charity. I happen to believe that the American bishops have been too private in their intermittent admonitions to politicians who claim to be Catholic, but as the abortion abomination is following an increasingly devastating course, the scandal of "Catholic" politicians enabling the abomination is apparently forcing the hand of several bishops, so that their admonitions are becoming public and more vocal. It is not a matter of declaring anyone "unfit to be a Catholic"; it is a matter of declaring that some prominent politicians who call themselves "Catholic" are, in fact, not Catholic.

mark| 3.27.09 @ 2:06PM

Jeremiah, if the shoe fits wear it. Obama's heart is on his sleeve when he takes the position that a baby that survives the abortion process should be laid on a cold steel table and left to die. This genocide is many times worse than slavery was.

Jeremiah| 3.27.09 @ 2:19PM

John II

I find it impossible to argue against your reasoning where the ethics of abortion are considered.

Abortion is morally wrong objectively speaking, this I accept as a teaching of the Church but as a conclusion available from science and what I would consider common sense.

And my language was squishy, and I accept what you say about apostasy.

However, I do not believe it necessarily follows that any support of Roe V Wade is ethically equivalent to having or performing an abortion, nor do I think it should be judged the same way.

I think often there is a squishiness among pro-life people, who would prefer not to discuss who it is who actually has abortions. It enmeshes them in some pretty difficult circumstances -- the fourteen year old girl who is raped by her uncle; the young woman who feels pressured to get an abortion by her boyfriend; the poor, who (albeit mistakenly) believe that sex is their only worldly solace. You can come up with your own examples.

It is so much simpler to focus on the politicians, and how evil they are for permitting all of this to go on.

But if I understand it right, Biden's position -- for example -- is this: abortion is wrong, but making it illegal leads to bad government for other reasons.

This may be mistaken; however, I have a hard time confusing that view with the person actually taking the action of having or performing an abortion.

Jeremiah| 3.27.09 @ 2:21PM

My post above should have read (and it matters) "this I accept as a teaching of the Church but ALSO as..."

Jeremiah| 3.27.09 @ 2:31PM

Jerry --

You make good points. I would slightly disagree about war and the killing of civilians: it is not enough that the primary intention is not to kill civilians. Although a war may not have as its goal the killing of any specific civilians, we must always understand that any decision to go to war is a decision to kill civilians and weigh the necessity of the war against that certain truth. By any measure, the Iraq War seems highly suspect to me.

Jeremiah| 3.27.09 @ 2:41PM

St Nick --

I merely indicated how it sounds when you proclaim who is a real Catholic and who is not. Again -- as someone pointed out -- I myself do engage from time to time in political hyperbole, and it's probably unhelpful, and perhaps in this instance it was unfair. No hard feelings.

Dr Right --

My only point is that it is very easy to use the moral intensity of the abortion issue to manipulate people into adopting other political viewpoints that they might not otherwise hold.

There just is NO connection between those two issues, which is my point. And another day I'd happily debate that other issue.

John II| 3.27.09 @ 2:47PM

"I think often there is a squishiness among pro-life people, who would prefer not to discuss who it is who actually has abortions. It enmeshes them in some pretty difficult circumstances -- the fourteen year old girl who is raped by her uncle; the young woman who feels pressured to get an abortion by her boyfriend; the poor, who (albeit mistakenly) believe that sex is their only worldly solace. You can come up with your own examples. "

Jeremiah: In the quote above, the non-restrictive comma after "pro-life people" suggests to me that your real interest isn't in abortion but in the folks taken up with the issue. The only "pro-life people" (interesting expression--and the debate would be clearer if the other side were called, simply, "pro-death people," but I'm wandering again) I say the only pro-life folks I'm personally acquainted with are to one extent or another involved in funding and volunteer work for such enterprises as the Juan Diego Society, Good Counsel, Human Life International, and so forth. And they know quite a bit about "the circumstances"--but they don't argue from the circumstances, or they would probably be less inclined to offer so much of their time and money to dealing with the circumstances as best they can, and in creative ways that don't involve killing.

I don't think we're going to agree on this one, probably because you tend to think of legalized abortion the way I would think of , say, legalized gambling. I don't think you understand the peculiar seriousness of the issue--but let it go. Just get rid of the comma, okay?

Jeremiah| 3.27.09 @ 3:01PM

John II

I have to say I'm delighted to have an exchange based on the use of a comma, and you are right that it makes a huge difference in my sentence. I am happy to edit it out, per your request.

Nick| 3.27.09 @ 3:12PM

Jeremiah,

Maybe this will help:
-Perform/have an abortion = an evil act = automatic (latae sententiae) excommunication
-Promote/support abortion (with money or votes in congress) = an evil act = Bishop can excommunicate
-Support/vote for a pro-abort candidate when there is a Pro-Life alternative = sinful behavior
- Support flawed law (Roe) that allows abortion = sin
-Moral ambivalence to abortion = sin
-Believe gov. doesn't have a right to ban abortion = sin
-Promote the culture of life = The Gospel of Jesus Christ = State of Grace
See Catechism of the Catholic Church (CCC) : para. 2270-75

The Apocalypse 3:15-16, "'I know your works: you are neither cold nor hot. Would that you were cold or hot! So, because you are lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spew you out of my mouth.'"

Nick| 3.27.09 @ 3:19PM

Jeremiah,

I am far from being a Saint. But I pray I may be someday. And I pray you will be also.

Jeremiah| 3.27.09 @ 3:35PM

Nick --

I'm not sure I follow. I've known a woman that has confessed to priests to having an abortion. Do you think that priest should have moved to have her excommunicated?

I do not have moral ambivalence on this issue; I do think that the government could pass laws that reduced the number of abortions; I do not believe that a total ban on abortions is legally possible given our system of government. I'm going to have to try to keep on going in my very imperfect condition.

Jeremiah| 3.27.09 @ 3:39PM

Put this the other way around:

What would you say if it became feasible to implant a computer chip in every woman's body. The chip would inform a government agency the instant she became pregnant, and exactly nine months later, the government would compel her to stand before its officials and produce a healthy child or face charges of abortion or child abuse (for an unhealthy baby).

Does this sound like the state authority intended by the Constitution?

What then is the difference between that and what you would advocate?

Nick| 3.27.09 @ 4:03PM

Jeremiah,

Anyone who executes (the abortionist), has (the mother), or assists (nurse, assistant, drives the mother to the abortion mill), in a successful abortion "incurs excommunication latae sententiae."(CCC 2272)
That means they excommunicate themselves by committing the act and breaking the Canon Law. Only their bishop can bring them back into the Church and a State of Grace through the Sacrament of Penance.

Why was it "legally possible" to ban abortion for 184 years? Same goes for birth control. It is not only legal, but imperative that government protect those that cannot protect themselves. That is the reason "Governments are instituted among men...".

Please read the Catechism paragraphs cited above.

Nick| 3.27.09 @ 4:32PM

Jeremiah,

1) Child abuse and abortion are not equivalent crimes. Apples and oranges.
2) Implanting a computer chip is unnatural, having a baby is.
3) Gov. has the right to investigate and punish (based on evidence) crimes that HAVE BEEN committed, not MAYBE committed.
4) Abortion is the Deliberate Killing of an INNOCENT Human Being. This has always been and will always be intrinsically evil. It can never be justified under any circumstances.

Except for slavery, the U.S. Constitution had the concept of rights correct. For 184 years it was up to the several States to make abortion law (as well as most other laws). Then six twits in black robes declared all those laws null and void, with no legal reasoning whatsoever. I call that tyranny.

Marc Jeric| 3.27.09 @ 4:54PM

Just 2 more years of this suffering under the rule of Abu Hussein from Kenya, Pelosi, Reid, Shumer, Frank, Dodd, Markey, etc. - what I call our revolutionary marxist cohort.
As for Notre Dame - its professoriat is composed mainly with deconstructionists, marxists, relativists, and other misfits parading as intellectuals. With 11% unemployment and 13% inflation this new and more dangerous Carter will be swept into the sewer of history.

Al Wunsch| 3.27.09 @ 4:56PM

Many catholic universities, ND being one of them, are following the same secular, PC indoctrinated path as other anti-american, anti-democratic universities. Same is happening in the K-12 as well. Yet, we continue to fund these institutions(public ones) and vote in people like Obama. We have an admin that wants to take over business and give welfare to detainees. It's time to put together a rebellion against Obama and the dems.

sly1| 3.27.09 @ 4:59PM

I cannot once again get over the moral relativism of CS Lewis.....it makes me sick to think that the taking of any life is so complex. There is no complexity in killing. Adoption is far better than killing. Oh but that is right it is too complex to deal with it might make your getting pregnant a little tough on you to have the baby and give it up or to keep that child and raise it. There are no mistakes in this life there is living and experiencing what life is and all is not roses!!! I know of many women who back in the 70's who thought abortion was the answer and to this day suffer greatly for what they did back then and often wonder what would be of that child today if they had not destroyed that life.

I see so many fighting for the rights of animals or other countries and thier people due to atrocities in the world and yet they stand and will take the life of an unborn baby. Where is the compexity? It is moral relativism not complexity. When you have no rules or morals then there are no reasons or consequences in taking an unborn babies life!!

Dave Oberholtzer| 3.27.09 @ 5:00PM

There was a time when a bishop could and would transfer an errant and disobediant priest to some remote location where he could reflect on his transgressions. That's probably what is needed here with Father Jenkins. It's all well and good for the bishop to boycott the event and complaint, but he has it within his power to change this and if he doesn't, then he's part of the problem.

ruth| 3.27.09 @ 5:07PM

Obumbler is the first president ever to be pro-infanticide. He is a monster. Jeremiah, I don't know how a 'Catholic' could defend Obama's pro-infanticide views. Brings a whole new meaning to confession for me. How do you square it within yourself? Also, shame on Notre Dame.

E.Patrick Mosman| 3.27.09 @ 5:14PM

Jeremiah wrote,
" I remember when Pope John Paul II issued his opinion on the Iraq War. Although not an outright condemnation, the pope was clearly not supportive, and your "pro life" party cheerfully ignored him, leading to the violent deaths of tens if not hundreds of thousands of people."
What Is the Papacy's Response to the War in Iraq?
By Scott P. Richert

Question: What Is the Papacy's Response to the War in Iraq?

The Catholic Church teaches that governments bear the responsibility for determining whether a war they wish to fight is just according to the Church’s Just War Theory. Still, the Church does offer guidance in interpreting that theory, and both Pope John Paul II and Pope Benedict XVI have expressed their judgments on the justice of the United States’ war in Iraq.
Answer: John Paul II on the War in Iraq

In 1991, Pope John Paul II opposed the Gulf War and publicly appealed to U.S. President George H.W. Bush not to wage it. In 2003, he once again opposed a war in Iraq and appealed to U.S. President George W. Bush to refrain from going to war.
In an Address to the Diplomatic Corps at the Vatican on January 13, 2003, the Pope declared that “War is never just another means that one can choose to employ for settling differences between nations” and reiterated that “war cannot be decided upon . . . except as the very last option and in accordance with very strict conditions.”
Two months later, on March 16, 2003, in his Angelus Message, Pope John Paul spoke of the need “to work with responsibility for peace” and declared that all options had not been exhausted: “There is still time to negotiate; there is still room for peace, it is never too late to come to an understanding and to continue discussions.” The war began two days later, on March 18, 2003.
Pope John Paul did not drop his opposition to the war once it had started. On June 4, 2004, in an Address to President Bush (who was visiting him at the Vatican), the Pope reminded the President that:
"You are very familiar with the unequivocal position of the Holy See in this regard, expressed in numerous documents, through direct and indirect contacts, and in the many diplomatic efforts which have been made since you visited me, first at Castelgandolfo on 23 July 2001, and again in this Apostolic Palace on 28 May 2002."
Benedict XVI on the War in Iraq

Since being elected pope, Pope Benedict XVI has largely confined his remarks on Iraq to prayers for peace, though he has occasionally been critical of the conduct of the war. In the April 2003 issue of 30 Days, an Italian Catholic magazine, the future pope (then Joseph Cardinal Ratzinger) made his opposition to the war known, while supporting Pope John Paul’s assessment of the justice of the war. He declared Pope John Paul’s position on the war to be “the thoughts of a man of conscience occupying the highest functions in the Catholic Church” and “the appeal of a conscience enlightened by the faith.”
Cardinal Ratzinger also argued that “reasons sufficient for unleashing a war against Iraq did not exist,” in part because:
"proportion between the possible positive consequences and the sure negative effect of the conflict was not guaranteed. On the contrary, it seems clear that the negative consequences will be greater than anything positive that might be obtained."

Both Popes oppsed the war based on their personal rational that "reasons sufficient for unleashing a war against Iraq did not exist,”, which is an opinion subject to interpretation of "except as the very last option and in accordance with very strict conditions.” The Catholic Church teaches that governments bear the responsibility for determining whether a war they wish to fight is just according to the Church’s Just War Theory and as such is not a religious decision but a civil one.

One wonders if Jeremiah and Pope Benedict XVI now believe that the world be be a better, safer place and the citizens of Kuwait and Iraq would be living a better life if Saddam Hussein and his sons were in charge and free to bruialize, murder, rape and imprison their subjccts and to develop weapons of mass destruction without restraint.
,

Snookums| 3.27.09 @ 5:21PM

Dear President Jenkins,
Please rescind your invitation to give the Commencement Addresss to President Obama as soon as possible. It is imperative that you set a positive example for the youth of our country.

Jeremiah| 3.27.09 @ 5:41PM

Mr Mosman --

RE: "One wonders"

One can wonder all he likes. I won't speak for the Pope, obviously. I think the war was a mistake. Pope John Paul II clearly did not support the war, although as your post indicates, he evidently did not believe there was not grounds outright to condemn it.

Some estimates put the death toll of Iraqis in the hundreds of thousands. If you think there's no question the war was the right thing to do, I don't think you're thinking carefully enough about it.

ruth| 3.27.09 @ 5:50PM

Jeremiah, you won't speak for the Pope? Wow, your humility touches my heart. What a guy!

Pam| 3.27.09 @ 5:58PM

I signed the petition the first day it came out. I've carried the memory of an abortion for more than 25 years. None of you would want anyone you know or love to suffer through this form of birth control. It hardens your heart and leaves you with a feeling that never goes away. Never. The Church is very wrong for this. The message to the youth is an acceptance of the practice.

Pam| 3.27.09 @ 5:58PM

I signed the petition the first day it came out. I've carried the memory of an abortion for more than 25 years. None of you would want anyone you know or love to suffer through this form of birth control. It hardens your heart and leaves you with a feeling that never goes away. Never. The Church is very wrong for this. The message to the youth is an acceptance of the practice.

Nick| 3.27.09 @ 6:11PM

Jeremiah,

You are admonishing Mr. Mosman for not "thinking carefully enough about" issues of life and death?
Have you thought long and hard about what the Church teaches on abortion? Did you even read the Catechism to find out what the Church teaches on the subject?

From your responses so far I would say you haven't thought carefully enough about it.

Nick| 3.27.09 @ 6:18PM

Pam,

It is testimony like yours that, with the Grace of God, will stop abortion in this country. Please keep it up.

I'll pray for you.

Mo Macie| 3.27.09 @ 6:31PM

Well, first off am appalled by what I read and I only read the first two lines of the first commentor. Obama ISN'T half black and white...His mother was white(with factions of Irish thus the St. Patty's Day comments) his father was from Kenya was 90% ARAB and 10% BLACK that does not make him half black..I have more Irish in me is is 1/4 then he does black!!!! How dare the Catholic Church even deal with this person. I was baptized Catholic and tho don't attend Church for reason I didn't like the way the Catholic Church wanted to direct our lives and looking at it now, the Catholic Church preaches procreation and is against birth control..that is all well and good if they wanted to pay for the upbringing of the children that I might have had ..had I not practiced birth control..and that in itself is control...control equates to socialism and guess now the Catholic Church is cowtowing to Obama cause guess what he wants to be the "father" of socialism in this country...wake up America...and for the Catholic Church SHAME ON YOU FOR EVEN GOING THERE!!!!!!

KMB| 3.27.09 @ 6:43PM

Pam,
One of the wonderful acts of John Paul II did during his pontificate was elevate Dorthy Day for consideration for sainthood. (I'm not really a fan of the Catholic Worker Movement per se).She too had an abortion when she was young. What a beautiful act this was by JPII to exemplify and demonstrate the power of forgivness and ultimately the redemption from our sins........

ruth| 3.27.09 @ 7:08PM

Pam you're not alone. God bless you. If you need help with your grief, you can contact Project Rachel; a Catholic Post Abortion Organization. They have helped many women, and most certainly, would open their arms to you, too. Just remember that you are loved, okay?

John II| 3.27.09 @ 7:21PM

"Some estimates put the death toll of Iraqis in the hundreds of thousands. If you think there's no question the war was the right thing to do, I don't think you're thinking carefully enough about it."

Hi again, Jeremiah. I've been gone for a while--looks as if the discussion is wandering. Anyhow, all estimates place the abortion toll since 1973 at about 50 million so far. But "some estimates" of the death toll in Iraq since 2003 were cooked up by flawed methodologies employed by folks inclined to compare the US destruction of the Saddam regime with the genocide perpetrated in Rwanda. So I don't think you want to go down that road--I mean, the sad path of statistical special pleading.

If there is to be any careful thinking around here, and since the conversation is starting to drift anyhow, we might begin by trying to understand why passionate advocates of political irenicism tend almost without exception to be icy and detached about abortion.

And since we're starting to throw analogies around, how about this one: I'm against war, but I don't think it would be right for me to impose my views on the US Marine Corps--after all, boys will be boys.

Check. Your move.

Angel| 3.27.09 @ 7:35PM

Icy and detached: Perfect description of pro-aborters. No hearts there.

KBN| 3.27.09 @ 7:51PM

But is it not true that politics follow culture and not the other way around? As Catholics we can split hairs over "A Just War" and no society wants war per se, unfortunately some Catholics (or maybe we should use a small "c") are doing the same thing with abortion. Their excuse is "we are personally opposed but.... Additionally, they also want to use the other excuse to be able to vote for and support Obamamama because there is a bigger picture. I think this also represents being desensitized to the Culture of Life and view it as a nuisance "when there is so many other big praoblems in the world today."

Jeremiah| 3.27.09 @ 8:37PM

John II

I was not making an analogy of abortion to the Iraq War, necessarily, although I do think that the celerity with which many conservatives wanted to charge off to Arabia to start dropping bombs after 9.11 did raise some questions in my mind about just what exactly the culture of life is that we're always hearing about.

My concern I think was about the way the Republican party and conservative movement use Catholicism when it suits them.

When it came to the war -- with all that oil under the sand -- George W Bush preferred the advice of a "higher father" to the pope, and while I'm glad W has established direct contact with the Almighty, I still wonder if maybe the pope's advice might have helped us out a little.

As to death tolls, there have been irresponsible projections -- one I remember in particular. There almost certainly has been more than 100,000 killed at this point; there are 2 million refugees and another 2 million displaced; over 3,000 Americans killed; tens of thousands of Americans wounded; and a whole lot of bad blood. All told, that war was the single stupidest thing I ever saw a politician do.

Jeremiah| 3.27.09 @ 8:43PM

Iraqi civilian death toll is according to the World Health Organization probably between 150 and 200 thousand.

The report that was much higher was Johns Hopkins, and I think that's been larger discredited.

Some Arab groups in the Middle East claim the numbers are much higher.

We will not know the true numbers until things quiet down and effective studies can be done, but it doesn't seem likely that fewer than 100,000 civilians have died. At least I haven't seen anyone arguing that numbers are lower than that.

Jeremiah| 3.27.09 @ 9:03PM

The W reasoning -- to call it that -- seems to have gone something like this:

In the long run, why go to the pope and bother with all that rigmarole -- all that ethical rigmarole, all those centuries of systematic philosophical analysis that led to an understanding of just war -- when you can go straight to God Himself and get him to sign off on your campaign to bomb hell out of some Arabs?

Your CIA guy is saying it's a "cakewalk," and your VP just went on television and said we'd be "greeted as liberators." You've prayed about it, and well, while there hasn't exactly been a voice from the sky telling you to do it, the voice from the sky hasn't told you not to do it, either. So why not? Why deal with that guy from Poland with the funny hat and the funnier accent? Didn't we fight the Revolutionary War against them guys anyway? As long as we get them to vote for us because of abortion, who cares what they say about anything else.

Daphne| 3.27.09 @ 9:19PM

How does your support of killing 51 million babies recommend you, Jeremiah? What's in this carnage for you?

John II| 3.27.09 @ 9:20PM

Jeremiah: Are we still talking about Iraq? The reason I suggested that we not go down that road stretches way back to a stillborn debate I almost got into with a fellow who claimed that the horrendous death toll of World War II (I forget what the estimate was then, but the current one is approximately 50 million civilian dead) proves that armed resistance to the Wehrmacht and the Japanese imperialists was unjustifiable.

I immediately stopped arguing and offered to buy the fellow a beer and talk about something else. The only numbers regarding Iraq that I find useful are the current polls of Iraqis who are no longer afraid to speak their minds, which I believe runs at about 100%.

But maybe it's my fault for using the war analogy. Let me try another: I am against child pornography, but I wouldn't want to impose my views on the low-lifes who produce the stuff, especially considering the nasty attitudes displayed by so many who oppose child pornography.

If that analogy doesn't work, I got a million of 'em. Just let me know.

Nick| 3.27.09 @ 9:26PM

Jeremiah,

So the J reasoning -- to call it that -- seems to be something like this:

Because President Bush had Catholics vote for him, he has to listen to what the Pope tells him to do, when it agrees with what Jeremiah agrees with, i.e. not going to war. Even though GWB isn't Catholic himself.
But when he appoints judges that would overturn Roe v. Wade and Doe v. Bolton, and stops federal funding for research on new embryonic stem cell lines, is Jeremiah glad that he "listened" to the Holy Father?

Nick| 3.27.09 @ 9:53PM

That is a serious question, by the way. Any answer?

Obama Drules| 3.27.09 @ 10:36PM

Jeremiah always splits when he is cornered. Chicken liver liberal. What other kind is there?

Pete| 3.27.09 @ 11:39PM

I hope that a few good fightin' Irish get out to excercise their 1st Amendment rights and protest this travesty. Quite a few St. Mary's students didn't take too kindly to an appearance by the bombmaker, Bill Ayers. What the hell does a parochial education mean anymore?

stmichrick| 3.28.09 @ 12:23AM

I've noticed at another big Catholic university that the hierarchy gets all googly- eyed when big name politicians come to visit regardless of their stance on abortion.

I guess parading in the streets and carrying signs is only for the lowly parishioners. Once you've reached a certain strata the principles become 'academic.'

Miss Priss| 3.28.09 @ 12:46AM

The Catholic Church in America has bred her own destroyers, graduating from doctrinally corrupt catechetical programs..

Read that again and then read the comments in this thread. Dont incite hatred against the mother church.

George Neumayr, shame on your worthless ass.

Starry Night| 3.28.09 @ 1:21AM

Shut up, Priss. The Notre Dame clergy are the worthless asses for inviting the infanticide lover to speak at Commencement. They're inciting hatred against the unborn and shaming our Church. Shame on you, too. Mr. Neumayr is a hero.

Don Meaker| 3.28.09 @ 2:56AM

Will the last faithful follower in the Catholic Church turn the lights off when they leave? Catholic corruption, Catholic molestation of children, Catholic protection of paedophiles, and now Catholic support of murder.

Don Meaker| 3.28.09 @ 3:01AM

Just in case you missed it, we were greated as liberators. The Iraqi people voted several times, the occupation ended within a year or so, and since that time the Iraqis have been working with us to weed out the Baathist deadenders and the foreign terrorists from all over the Islamic world.

For the first time ever, the dictator was tried, and executed by the people who he oppressed. That precedent I would like to see repeated.

joan| 3.28.09 @ 8:38AM

Melvin,
I am so concerned for the rejection you and your wife experienced from that priest. My family, too, has suffered, from priests with huge imperfections, who hurt us terribly.
BUT..don;t make the same mistake the liberals do and identify the divine institution with its imperfect members. Please pray to the Lord that you can forgive those who hurt you. Because of what you wrote I recalled our family's hurts and I realize that I, too, must pray to forgive. St. Augustine said the grace of the sacraments comes to us despite the holiness or unholiness of the priest....therefore we must believe that and continue to cling to the Lord and His Church. God will provide you with the way to do it.
Let us pray for one another.

Bob| 3.28.09 @ 9:09AM

The touchdown for Obama happens because of the lack of leadership by US Bishops to Truth. The 3 that have openly in a polite manner condemned this should be patted on the back, but where is the rest of the US Bishops that supported the statement to not honor individuals that promote the culture of death??? Are they out of town?? Or hiding under their desks??? Or do they agree with what Notre Dame is doing??? These heirs to the Apostles are cowards and no longer teachers or shepards.

Edith| 3.28.09 @ 9:16AM

This is extremely disturbing. We are no longer living in a democracy but a communist regime. The latest actions and idealogies of people in present day society are begging for God to intervene. A new century, with a new battle with evil. We have to be strong and stand up for the TRUTH.

diana| 3.28.09 @ 9:44AM

I think Pope Benedict should get involved in this and reprimand Jenkins. He doesn't belong in the priesthood or Notre Dame since he does not know how to defend God and live according to the Catholic teaching. If you can't follow it, get out. We Catholics have better things to do to know love and serve God that dealing with this immoral behavior of a church leader and catholic university. What a hypocrite

Theresa| 3.28.09 @ 10:07AM

I'm a "cradle Catholic" who tries to live my life following Jesus' example but fails as often as every other human being. Please remember that He invited EVERYONE to "the Table." He allowed ALL of His Disciples to receive COMMUNION even though He was aware that one would betray Him and one would deny Him. Why do you wish to deny Him to anyone when He never did that? Let Him be the judge. Stop being afraid of everyone and everything. When you Trust in Him there is peace and love and forgiveness. When you aren't feeling these things trust and need Him more.

Joseph | 3.28.09 @ 10:41AM

The "constitution law scholar" who mocks the Constitution of the USA and its requirement of being a natural-born citizen in order to qualify for Presidency, the usurper who became President by paying three separate high-priced law firms to withhold from the public his relevant documents (long-form birth certificate, college transcripts, passports and immigration records) showing that he was born in Kenya, probably was enrolled and received financial aid as a foreign student in the USA, and traveled to Pakistan using a foreign (either Kenyan or Indonesian) passport, is about to receive a Honorary Doctorate in Law from Notre Dame.

When the truth will come out (which I trust it will), he may very well become the first jailed inmate with ...a Honorary Doctorate from Notre Dame.

This way Notre Dame will manage to grab some headlines in the media not only once, but even twice.

Tricia| 3.28.09 @ 10:42AM

"Will the last faithful follower in the Catholic Church turn the lights off when they leave?"

Mmm, no. The gates of hell (nor the corruption, nor the scandal, etc., etc.) will not prevail against the Church. Pretty definitive, eh? 2000 years, through much scandal, etc., etc. and She still stands. And I stand with Her.

There is much to be said about PBXVIs comment about a smaller, more faithful fold. We may be small in number, but we're out here, and provided that WE don't succumb to the culture or to the ideology of the world at large...we'll always be here. By the grace of God. And through Our Lady's intercession. Amen.

Jacques| 3.28.09 @ 11:20AM

I acknowledge that Pdt Obama is not guilty of all the abortions performed in the US , he is only guilty to push loosing the last restrictions to a mass muder that takes more than one million innocent lives every year in America only. Probably he believes the mass murder isn't big enough?
With all the respect I owe to the US President, I am obliged to place him at the same level as Bp Williamson who, in the same way, says there was no murder of the Jews (or at least of much lesser importance than that we know !!!).
Pdt Obama reckons that abortion isn't a murder. The Church reckons the exact contrary.
Wouldn't you strongly protest if Notre Dame university asked Bp Williamson to give a speech?
We, true Catholic faithfuls, would protest in both cases.
What we are doing currently.

Omaha Bob| 3.28.09 @ 11:32AM

For those of you who are Catholic (or were Catholic) that are ranting and raving about the pope and the Catholic Church, this is a test; a TEST OF YOUR FAITH. Is this evil willed by God? I say a resounding, NO! But the evil that has infiltrated the Catholic Church is being allowed by God as a test of our faith; a separating of the sheep from the goats (Mt 25:32-33). Remember the parable of the farmer and his seed (Mt 13:3-9). Are you like the seed that falls on the path and gets washed away at the first sign of trouble, (as in trouble in the Church)? Or are you like the seed that falls amongst the rocks that flourishes only when the conditions are right; only to wither and die out at any sign of trouble? Or are you the seed that fell on good earth; that no matter what the trouble is within the walls of the Church, you are staying in it for the fight? The fight I am talking about is the fight for your own soul and the souls of others. If you are leaving the Church or have left the Church because of some priest or bishop, then you are like the seed that fell on rocky soil, or on the dry path. You are getting washed away from your salvation. I plead with you to replant yourself on good soil and fight for your Church and ultimately for your own salvation.

jesse marcel| 3.28.09 @ 12:11PM

I served tours in Iraq and personally witnessed the Holocaust being visited on the Iraqi people by Saddam Hussein. I flew missions to the mass graves South of Baghdad and saw articles of clothing from baby cloths and womens jewelry strewn about the grave site, one of which held a mother holding her infant, both shot in the head with the baby still having a pacifier in his mouth. Say what you want about the legitimacy of the war in Iraq but at least that Holocaust is no longer present.

Joseph Tran| 3.28.09 @ 12:19PM

The root cause that prevents Fr. Jenkins from recinding his invitation is PRIDE, and the evil knows very well how to use PRIDE as one of the 7 deadly sins as the effective weapon to tempt Fr. Jenkins. I pray that Fr. Jenkins not falling into the evil's trap for the sake on the unborn babies like Herod did choose "the human praise over the human life". I know it's hard for Fr. Jenkins to do it but the narrow road that will lead to the salvation.

Jt

Sue| 3.28.09 @ 12:53PM

It's NOT politics that we are talking about, it's A LIFE. Democrat or Republican, are you willing to stand up for LIFE? Do you have the courage to pray for LIFE?
Those of you with your stories of "bad" priests, please remember, they are misguided, tempted, stressed, lonely, human. Are you really going to turn your back on GOD because you had to suffer a little humiliation, a little pain? (I'm not talking about the victims of abuse) Marvin, et al, Get back in there and find a good, decent, theologically sound priest and join his parish.
Catholics, Fr. Jenkins needs prayers right now. The Superiors of his order need prayers, they are the ones who can override his decision, not the local bishops or cardinals. Continue to feel the outrage, yes, that is motivating you to write, to think, to stand up for the unborn. But please be charitable, and keep praying!

Jeremiah| 3.28.09 @ 1:40PM

Jesse Marcel --

First, thank you for your service. There is no question people like you did a great thing in getting rid of Saddam Hussein. He was an evil son of a bitch, and the world is better off without him.

As you probably know, killing Saddam Hussein did not end the killing in Iraq, and we may yet still see more violence if the Sunnis start fighting again.

I don't think that the war as a policy is in the end justified, even when its good effects are measured. We could have invaded Rwanda in the 90s; we could invade Burma now; hell, we could invade China, Pakistan, N. Korea, Cuba, and be doing the Lord's work everyday freeing people from awful governments that miserably oppress their people. But I just don't think we'd be justified doing it.

Still, I'm grateful for the service of our soldiers and believe that in any cause they serve our nation's interests. I certainly understand that the apparent duplicity of such a message is suspect, but it's the best I can do and be honest.

Jeremiah| 3.28.09 @ 1:47PM

Nick and John II --

Thanks for the excellent debate (and instruction on matters of faith) yesterday. In the end, I agree with you about the objective evil of abortion; I believe that the law could restrict more abortions than it does. I also believe we as a society could do more to prevent abortions.

I also think that the WORST thing -- and I'm being serious -- that could happen to the Republican party would be the overturning of Roe V Wade. It would put millions of voters back into play -- many of them Catholic -- and you'd see the Democratic party once again being very attractive to them. I know many, many people who are either no longer political or who have defected to the Republican party soley on the basis of life issues: were those issues to vanish, the loss would be to those Republicans who cynically use the passion and devotion of these people to pursue an agenda that supports the economic interests of the wealthiest 5% of our society -- and little else.

Berna| 3.28.09 @ 2:33PM

I say read the book AA-1025!!!!!!!!!

Trimelda| 3.28.09 @ 3:02PM

Jeremiah, as an African American woman of 54, who used to hang with the Black Panthers, marched with the United Farmworkers, pulled sit-ins and comes from a family of activists I can tell you that I have totally rejected the Democrats as a party.

I did this because I realized that these people are dead set on everything that my ancestors and family reject.

You seem to think that you are following a Party that just has a few opinions that are off and that the majority of what they stand for is right and supports the poor and rejected.
HA!!!!!
Let me tell you a few things.
I grew up in Chicago, a town run by the Democrats in a real, live ghetto. The Democrats used us Black kids as photo ops during Johnson's Great Society. They trotted us out to show the world how much the Democrats cared for the poor by giving us jobs through the CETA program. The problem was that these jobs and help that they tossed at us were worth NOTHING in the long run because they were merely show programs that ran out when the money ran out. They on the other hand, always seemed to get richer off these Federal funds.
Then they would tell our parents not to vote for the Republicans, who were all for "big business" and stay with the Party that cared for us.
So, like good little Yellow Dog Democrats, we did. The problem was that every time we got a Democrat and the money came into the hoods, it only lasted until the next Party came in and poof-it was gone.
We were told by the Democrats that this was proof that the evil Republicans needed to stay out of office until the Democrats could "finish" the job of reforming society and then all would be well. But when I started thinking and researching and looking outside of the box I was in I found out that most of my ancestors were REPUBLICANS not Democrats. I started researching how the Democrats were the ones who pushed and protected Jim Crow, how and why Martin Luther King Jr was a Republican and how the early Panthers supported the Republicans because they were for helping people to become businessmen and women, instead of "keeping us on the plantation" through welfare.
Jeremiah, you have no idea what kind of misery this Party has caused. They get money to help "save" Black and Hispanic people, put most of it in their pockets and then toss us a few crumbs and call it good. They have allowed drugs to run rampant in this nation under the guise of freedom, push abortion and population control as the solution to the problems of the inner city underclass and allow corruption to dominate out police departments, housing and mortgage systems and education. Then when we say we want justice the media that they control turn around and gives us that Oreo Cookie named B.O.
Let me challenge you and all the readers here to do something:
1) Did you ever watch the film, "We Will Not Be Silenced?" That is about how BO's people and the DNC shut up hundreds of people who did not want to support Barack. Many of them were Black. Go to you tube and watch it. Then ask yourself, Are the Democrats the "good guys" for social justice or not?
2) Go Google "Black Genocide and Abortion" The ministers there are against abortion as Black Genocide and they have a lot to say about good ole' Barry. But when they showed up to protest against him, they were "blacked" out by the media. Again, are they "good guys"?
3) Go Google "Black Democratic Caucus and Fannie Mae/Freddie Mac." Watch the C-Span video and watch these lovely people lie and rant about regulations and investigations by the Other party while they line their pockets. Is THIS what you stand for, Jeremiah? Fraud? Theft? This is more than "just" one issue. This is the future of our country.

THIS is not the Party of John Kennedy. This is the Party of vultures who have driven my proud people into supporting genocide, sexual sin, greed and theft as "necessary evils" because anything is supposed to be better than those nasty Republicans. Well, guess what? THIS Black woman voted Republican this election and the election before this one. I will NEVER support a Party that thinks my unborn grandchild is a "choice", says that going into debt with China is the way to prosperity, pushes sexual sin as freedom and says the best way to protect myself in the middle of crime is to take my guns.
As for you, Jeremiah and everyone else, do yourself a favor and look at the videos I mentioned. Think about the most Democratic city in the country-Chicago and ask yourself if that's the face of America that you want to see.
As for me, BO and his ilk can keep their Thug Boy politics and sit and spin. F them and the dead horse they rode in on.

Bella Jo| 3.28.09 @ 3:50PM

It is a tragedy that Fr. Jenkins and his liberal friends have so willingly sold-out the values, morals, and fundamental teaching of the Catholic Church. Obama needs Notre Dame more than Notre Dame needs Obama. I hope the benefactors will direct their monetary gifts this year to a truly Catholic cause by visiting www.oltiv.org and supporting the Our Lady of America devotion by helping to preserve the beautiful chapels and grounds where these apparitions took place in 1956. It is actually only 45 miles from the Notre Dame campus.

Heed Our Lady's call to purity. Read the messages and warnings of Our Lady of America at www.oltiv.org

Philip Saenz| 3.28.09 @ 5:23PM

Because of President Barack Obama, more human lives, little babies, will be snuffed out. This of course doesn't bother Father Jenkins of ND. Because Father Jenkins encourages Obama, that makes Father Jenkins an accessory to murder of the unborn. Since Satan is also a murderer of the unborn, why didn't Father Jenkins invite Satan?What's the difference? I see none.

Peadar ban| 3.28.09 @ 5:34PM

You raise an interesting question in your final paragraph, Sir, regarding the Orthodox catholic with the racist past. I look forward to the many invitations Bishop Williamson (is it Williamson? the Holocaust denier) receives to give commencement addresses at Catholic colleges and universities..

I think I'll go over to my blog and write his commencement speech for him.

Jeremiah| 3.28.09 @ 5:44PM

Philip Saenz --

Your post is an example of what I was protesting yesterday.

The abortions that take place during Obama's presidency will be the responsibility of the women who get abortions.

Even if the US outlawed abortion entirely, women would still get abortions illegally or travel to other countries. Would those abortions too be the fault of the president?

I do NOT agree with Obama on many issues, and I wish he would change his extreme stance. But I refuse to allow it to be said that his political stance somehow equivalent to the act of getting or performing an abortion. Moral confusion doesn't help anything, even if it adds panache to your indictment of Obama.

Janice Brown| 3.28.09 @ 7:57PM

While emailing his superior, it occured to me that God says He will bring good out of evil. This contraversery has educated the Catholics and Christians that Notre Dame IS NOT A CATHOLIC COLLEGE!!! How could we have gotten out this information without getting sued. AND it is lead by The Holy Cross Fathers - a Catholic Order? or just running under false credentials. Why do they have a lack of vocations? Think we've or God has educated two classes of Catholics! We should be praising the Lord. JB

Madame DeFarge| 3.28.09 @ 8:46PM

The French Revolution was very anti-clerical because those running the Catholic Church were so closely aligned with the failed State. We may see the rise of the guillotine again.

Denise-Mary| 3.28.09 @ 9:11PM

Miss Tremelda, thank you for your heartfelt, passionately written comments, above. I will watch the videos, as requested.

MaryH| 3.28.09 @ 9:38PM

Bishop D'Arcy shouldn't boycott -- he should INVADE. Who at Notre Dame could stop their bishop from showing up with his entourage of the most outspoken pro-life priests & fellow bishops he could muster? Now THAT would be a memorable Commencement Mass!

Conservative Girl| 3.28.09 @ 9:52PM

TRIMELDA--YOU TRULY ROCK!! Thank you for your testimony--you tell that Jeremiah the truth. I've been trying to knock some sense into his head for months. Girlfriend, It's an honor to know you! God bless you.

Patriot| 3.28.09 @ 10:00PM

Jeremiah, I know you've read Trimelda's post. Truth hurts? How can you lie about your disgusting party any longer? I know you're a demo operative; any decent person couldn't support the liberal trash you so steadfastly defend. Shame on you and yours for hiding your nefarious actions behind faux concern for the black community. Shame on you.

SAGE| 3.28.09 @ 10:03PM

My husband is n ND graduate. Two years age we took our 8 children and 14 grandchildren from California back to ND for a week to celebrate our 50th wedding anniversary. We were engaged in the little log chapel so many years ago. My grandson and I watch every football game and have a friendly rivalry because his dad graduated from USC. All my adult life I have worked for the ProLife movement. My daughters are warriors in the movement. I am heartsick with the invitation of President Obama to speak at graduation. This is a major insult to me and my family. More importantly, it is a slap in the face of Our Holy Father, Benedict XVI. I have draped my husband's diploma on the office wall in black. I am no longer a ND fan. Our donations to the university will now be diverted to our local pregnancy
center to help change minds.

Angel| 3.28.09 @ 10:19PM

Good for you, Sage. I'm also a Catholic from California who has always loved Notre Dame. I also have family USC grads--it gets crazy! And my daughters and I are big-time pro-life, too. Keep fighting the good fight, girl. It only matters what God thinks of our actions, right? God bless you and your family.

Gerald Curran| 3.28.09 @ 10:38PM

THE OBAMINATION of DESOLATION - RUN FOR YOUR LIVES!

Gerald Curran| 3.28.09 @ 11:21PM

Why run away? I hope that every Irishman worth his salt, will be at the school named for Our Lady to meet President Obama and to make sure he never gets to meet little Jenkins.

Gallega| 3.29.09 @ 12:48AM

Trimelda, you are fantastic. You have said, FROM EXPERIENCE, what many of us have known for years. The Democratic party panders to the poor during an election and then kicks them in the rear after. As for Notre Dame, pres. Jenkins should be ashamed for inviting that pro-infanticide person to speak and, to add insult to injury, award him an honorary degree. I hope the graduates and their families boycott the ceremony in protest!

Ian| 3.29.09 @ 6:44AM

This makes me ill. It is one thing to have Mr. Obama on campus, something that seems inappropriate at a nominally Catholic Christian school, while it is quite another to confer an honorary degree. That stamps Mr. Obama's pro-abortion policy with a seal of approval that many will understand as being from the Catholic Church.
It is no wonder that one of the largest religious denominations in the United States is the non-practicing Catholic. If the Church in America and its affiliates stand for nothing, why get out of bed on Sunday morning?
We no longer have one of our strongest defenders of life and of morals serving in the United States while Archbishop Burke is at the Vatican, but surely there has to be another Catholic leader who will defend the faith.
As a practicing Catholic, I wonder if many of the American bishops and priests are authentically Catholic. It seems there are too many in the clergy who are more interested in left-wing causes than in promoting the values they were ordained to support.

william| 3.29.09 @ 10:03AM

A survey of letters to Notre Dame and its student newspaper regarding the Obama invitation reports that 70% of alumni (those living in the real world) oppose and 90% of students (those living in ignorance) support. That figures.

Mary Anne| 3.29.09 @ 10:34AM

I live near Notre Dame and the galloping herd of independent minds going by my house everyday is deafening (to paraphrase RJ Neuhaus).
It seems to me that not only ND but most large C ("c") universities have the worst complex inferiority known in Acedamia!
This is evidenced by the Land O Lakes Agreement that Hesburgh and other leaders of catholic colleges and universities formulated back in the 1960's. It had serval purposes:
A) It secularized these places in the name of attracting desirable professors and acedemicians without the "burden" of being at a so called "C"atholic school. (see ND Faculty Senate info)
B) It provided a means for "C"atholic intitutions to drink at the poisoned well of federal grants and funding. To become eligible for this fed money, these schools and the religious that ran them had to forgo complete control and turn the schools over to a partialy lay Board of Trustees to share. (There are at least fifty members of the BOT at ND, most because they are politically correct OR they have fat check books) but there are only a few that have voting rights that count, which are split between the CSC's and the BOT. This makes it difficult for the Church , the local Bishop and even the Provential of the order to have any direct control which is why this was done in the first place. I respect JPII Ex Corde Ecclesiae, but in many cases it was too late.
I would like to know if ND pays their franchise fees to Rome! As the only way I can see anyway to resolve this is to pull their ticket and no longer have the imprimatur of the Church.
There is something to be said for people who say that the beautiful statue of Our Lady on top of the golden dome should should be replaced with the more appropriate golden cash register.
I get very nervous when I see storm clouds gathering over campus as when Armageddon
comes he's stopping here first!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Jeremiah| 3.29.09 @ 12:09PM

Patriot --

While I read Trimelda's post with interest, I can't say the same for yours. Both your posts above are rather thin, aren't they? Neither contributes much but name-calling, hyperbole, and hysteria. I think a real patriot speaks differently.

Mary Anne| 3.29.09 @ 12:24PM

Jeremiah,
I think that what is distubing about the abortion issue and having Obama speak at Notre Dame is that he is reversing the trend away from abortion.
The Church teahing on this issue is quite clear and is a non debate.
What we are seeing under Obama is the reversal of the Mexico City agreement to not use tax payer funds for abortion. Now he wants to reverse the the executive order for those whose are consciencious as to abortion dispense anything that produces one. Next up is FOCA which will put religious run hospitals and institutions into the position of shutting down because of choice.
I think Obama is the embodiment of Social engineering that the democrats have known for (for more see Trimelda's fabulous blog above).
So there is more at stake then the right to an abortion... now it's coming down to the FREEDOM to descent.

Jeremiah| 3.29.09 @ 2:18PM

Mary Anne,

I think you make very good points, and I earnestly wish Obama was not so radical on this issue. (In fact, I am part of a growing movement of Democrats for life, and as the Democratic party gains traction, I think you'll see more of us out there.) I think I agree with all or most of what you say should be policy.

However, -- and this is my main disagreement with many people here -- I disagree with the speculations about Obama's motives when it comes to this issue. Obama is -- for better or worse -- thinking like a lawyer on this issue. I think he should think more like a leader than a lawyer, but there it is. I do not believe in shadowy conspiracies: I do not think Obama, who is married to a black woman from the Chicago, is for any kind of "social engineering" of the sinister sort you allude to. I think he sees it as a matter of legal integrity consistent with the reading of the constitution put forth by Roe.

Again, I disagree with Roe; further, I believe Obama could do more even under Roe to prevent some abortions.

I guess I'm just more willing to interpret Obama's intentions generously; once you've convinced yourself that someone is evil, I think it's difficult to manage anything like objective criticism.

Jeremiah| 3.29.09 @ 2:24PM

Mary Anne --

You mention the "trend away from abortion." There are heartening statistics out there that suggest a decline in teenage pregnancy, birth out of wedlock, and abortion -- although we know from long bitter experience that during economic downturns all of these statistics tend to rise. This begs the question: is howling about how evil Obama or John Kerry is the only thing we can do to lower the number of actual abortions being performed?
Girls with two parents get pregnant at a far lower rate than girls with one parent; girls playing sports (tax payer funded, bleeding heart liberal endorsed, social program sports) get pregnant at a lower rate than girls who don't.

Girls with parents who use drugs, who are abusive, who are neglectful, who are economically unstable get pregnant more often than other girls. There have been interesting studies d0ne on rates of pregnancy among girls who are given "abstinence only" education, and usually they've found no difference between them and girls who receive no sex education.

I offer none of this as an excuse for abortion. I merely point out that there is much that can be done to reduce abortion rates, which I take it something like the goal.

Mary Anne| 3.29.09 @ 2:35PM

"In fact, I am part of a growing movement of Democrats for life, and as the Democratic party gains traction, I think you'll see more of us out there.)"
If you like political history, see what happened to Gov. Casey on this movement within the democratic party!
I don’t mean to discourage you from taking on this movement in your party, but I think they have reached the point of no return!!!
I know that you are giving Obama the benefit of the doubt and do not want to believe that he is capable of sinister social engineering, but look at his voting record. He’s really not the nice family man from Chicago for which he portends.
I think that you are on the cusp of an intellectual and political dilemma. As we all know “An unexamined life….”
I wish you the very best in your efforts in creating a pro-life movement in the democratic party, but please look at the history of the party and especially the treatment Gov. Casey received from them.
I wish you God’s speed and tons of luck!

Jeremiah| 3.29.09 @ 2:57PM

Mary Anne --

I will look into the matter of Governor Casey. I'm not familiar with the issue.

Thanks for your words of encouragement. Democrats for Life and other organizations have gotten larger in recent years, and I hope that trend continues. Best wishes.

Jeremiah| 3.29.09 @ 3:08PM

Dear Conservative Friends, et al.

One last thing.....The question at this time shoud really be, when do I, Jeremiah, unrepentant tax and spend liberal, receive my honorary degree from American Spectator?

I am without question the presiding liberal poster of posts here at the Spectator; I am surely the wisest liberal commentator featured on this site, and sometimes I'm forced to admit I may actually be the only sane liberal here at the Spectator website.

I await the good news.

Willey| 3.29.09 @ 4:04PM

Jeremiah, did you read Trimelda's post? It was directed right at you and your corrupt and debauched democrat party. She called you and your nasty party big time ho-bags, Jeremiah. She should know: She grew up in your liberal ghetto, Chicago. A little of the money you stole from American tax-payers went to the minorities--the rest lined the pockets of vicious white liberals such as yourself. She also blamed you for the liberal sponsered genocide of her people through abortion. Do her truthful words make you feel all warm and cozy? You must not have a conscience then--like all sociopaths.

Jeremiah| 3.29.09 @ 4:54PM

Willey --

I think you're getting a little hysterical. Here's my advice. Calm down. Go for a walk. Go for a bike ride. Visit a museum. Read a book. There's all kinds of things you can do. All this ranting serves no purpose.

Willey loves PALIN 2012!!| 3.29.09 @ 5:02PM

Did you read her post, Jeremiah? You chicken lib. Yella through and through. Trimelda didn't rant, she saw right through you--phony liberal.

Warpublican| 3.30.09 @ 10:43AM

Hey Fodder Neumayr - were you ALWAYS such a hypocrite? It would be one thing if Notre Dame critics were consistent in their valures - but when you consider that this school bestowed honorary degress on Warmongers Bush and divorcee Reagan - also a warmonger - and warmonger Ike - all pro-death penalty (against the policy of the catholic church) - then this gripe sure seems aimed at the negros - you do let black people into your school, right?

lynnrockets| 3.30.09 @ 1:53PM

That's right, stupid libtard, rationalize your slaughter of 51 million innocent babies. Whoremongering liberal fascist.

wordsmith| 3.30.09 @ 4:05PM

People-I am a Protestant with several Catholic friends I admire greatly. I also envy their depth of faith and wish mine were as great. Bill Buckley was always a literary hero of mine. I have a question concerning the gradation ceremonies at ND. Is it necessary for a graduate to attend to get a degree? When I attended the University of Minnesota, it was a requisite (a foolish ceremonial thing because one did not get one's diploma at the ceremony. We got a blank piece of paper and our diplomas were mailed to us. Perhaps if it's not a requisite, those opposed to HBO's presence could boycott the ceremony to demonstrate their disappointment or at least sit on their hands instead of applauding at the end of his speech.

lynnrockets| 3.31.09 @ 1:14AM

I hope the ND Alumni stop donating to the university. Money is the only thing that gets the Catholic Clergys' attention.

CM| 4.2.09 @ 11:23AM

As a recent Notre Dame alumnus and a supporter of Barack Obama, I will be doubling my donation to the university this year. I will be encouraging others to do the same via the powerful social networking cite facebook. Our generation will not stand for the university to be dominated by crotchety old conservatives. The dark ages are over.

mark| 4.3.09 @ 1:46PM

CM: as indicated on the other thread (re the Destruction of Notre Dame), if you can't see the inconsistency between ND honoring the most pro-abortion president in U.S. history, and the Catholic Church's fundamental teaching of abortion as evil, ND has not only failed in its religious mission, but also its academic mission, and ND should be honest enough to admit that it is forfeiting its Catholic heritage.
For whatever reason, you want to turn a question of fidelity to the Church's fundamental teaching into an attack on conservative politics. Perhaps it is the inability to reconcile ND's election to honor Obama and the Church's teachings that force you to attempt to change the subject.

mark| 4.3.09 @ 4:35PM

warpublican: You're attempt to equate abortion with the death penalty or war is falacious on a number of levels. I suggest that you chapters 2270 - 2273 and contrast them with 2307 et. seq.

MT| 4.6.09 @ 11:58PM

Yeah, the dark ages are over--51 million dead babies, and counting. Now that's civilized society. Whatever.

Cookie| 4.7.09 @ 2:46AM

CM's donation to ND will be $2.00 this year--doubled from last year's donation. LOL!

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David Baum| 8.14.09 @ 1:21PM

So, I just want to get this right. Catholicism now stands for only one thing - anti-abortion? There can be no other issues bearing on the Church's long (but hardly even) commitment to issues of human dignity? We're not for the poor? We're not for international peace? We're not for social justice? We're just against abortion. So I can throw out my entire collection of Catholic teachings and just keep the stuff that's says we're opposed to abortion? Is that it? Well that's gonna make way for a whole lot of new books in the old library.

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