The Public Policy
“It’s Not About the Money”
It’s payback time for the environmental lobby.
Put the FBI on notice: the “NRDC mafia” is in town. At least that’s how they are described in the New York Times, which identifies seven high-ranking former Natural Resources Defense Council employees who have accepted influential positions working for members of Congress and in the Obama administration.
The Times reports that NRDC staffers have gone to work for EPA administrator Lisa Jackson, House speaker Nancy Pelosi, House energy and environment subcommittee chair Ed Markey (D-MA), House energy and commerce chairman Henry Waxman, and other members of Congress. And of course they want these jobs only because they want to do the right thing
It’s no surprise when elected officials hand out political favors to their favorites — and the opposition cries foul. Remember when government contracts for Halliburton were mired in controversy because Dick Cheney was once the company’s president? Now that the Democrats are in power, it’s out with evil “industry” influences and in with the environmental crowd.
Greens don’t see it that way. According to one NRDC source, it’s completely unfair to “equate our revolving door” with the Bush administration’s. Republicans hire their industry buddies to cash in, but for greens, it’s “not about the money.”
Sure. Ignore the fact that the non-profit NRDC generated more than $75 million, according the Guide to Nonprofit Advocacy, and that according to IRS documents, NRDC typically raises a surplus of more than $10 million per year. But it isn’t about the money.
NRDC can’t pay salaries as large as Halliburton. But the “NRDC mafia” now has the clout to overturn current U.S. environmental policy and cost businesses and taxpayers billions of dollars. Talk about kneecapping the American economy.
It’s payback time for the environmental lobby. In November of 2008, NRDC lost a Supreme Court case when it tried to stop the U.S. Navy from using sonar in training exercises off the California coast. The Court dismissed its claim that saving sea life was more important than national defense.
Now that it’s in charge, NRDC has gone on record to say that the rules established to protect our national defenses “cr[y] out for transparent, good faith review by an administration in which good science unquestionably matters.”
In the current economic crisis, NRDC is pushing for costly cap and trade policies to be passed. But cap and trade is nothing more than a very expensive tax that businesses will have to pass on to consumers — at a time when American consumers can ill afford to see prices rise.
Through cap and trade, NRDC hopes to take money from inexpensive energy industries, like coal and oil, to increase government revenues so the government can increase spending in job-killing industries such as wind and solar energies. These industries always promise to “create” millions of new jobs, at the unstated cost of many more millions of jobs lost.
It will be difficult to reject some of the policies championed by the “NRDC mafia,” especially as they continue to grow government and gain even more influence. For now they might be happy to kneecap the economy, but it isn’t hard to imagine them eventually sending it to sleep with the fishes.
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Deborah | 3.23.09 @ 6:16AM
Good grief, these people are so destructive to the American way of life. In every aspect of our society leftists/liberals poke their noses in, screw everything up, and the American people are left having to clean up their messes. These busybodies will never stop. In the past two months of the Obama administration they have left our country on the road to poverty. They won't be happy until they bring the country down.
Rocco| 3.23.09 @ 7:20AM
Sad to say, Deborah, but these idiots have only just begun, aided and abetted by our enabler in chief. I am slowly coming to the realization, shared by many in my circle of retired military officers, that an armed response to this may end up being the only solution to restore the constitution. It saddens many of us to even think this.
stu.b.con| 3.23.09 @ 7:20AM
David--please grow up or we will have to send you to your room and take away your internent privileges.
signed Mom & Dad
Rocco| 3.23.09 @ 7:21AM
Oh no, the moron is back. I am sure he will aim his ad hominem remarks to me as well.
Rocco| 3.23.09 @ 7:24AM
Stu.b.con, I think nothing less than a thorough spanking would be appropriate.... or a Singapore style caning.
Melvin| 3.23.09 @ 8:02AM
Dave Mathews, in the spirit of fairness and diversity we need to be more inclusive of all political parties in posting the correct information.
Yes, you are correct President George Bush and the Republican Party has contributed to the out of control spending that is so pervasive in politics today.
But in the spirit of fairness and diversity which is a cornerstone of the Democrat Party we must return to the days of President James Carter who cast the die for this financial fiasco.
President Clinton and the Democrat Party further
reinforced the political machinations of Fannie Mae and Freddy Mac.
Many Democrat Congressmen, Senators, former cabinet appointees of President Clinton and bureaucrats have personally profited from the many unsavory, and borderline illegal activities in dealings with various lobbyists and shady business deals.
Sec. of State Mrs. Hillary Rodam Clinton even used insider trading information to turn a small amount of money into a financial windfall.
Mr. Franklin Raines walked away with 90 million dollars as former CEO of Fannie Mae.
Oh, Dave one more observation many of the attributes you mention that Conservatives like to live amongst pollution, it is a well documented fact that many very wealthy Democrats who have close ties to Washington D.C. and or politicians themselves sit on the very boards of these factories that spew acrid pollution into our environment.
In the spirit of fairness and diversity which is a hallmark of the Democrat Party this information must be posted as to allow Americans to make a fair decision.
After all Dave, we're all in this together right buddy?
Melvin| 3.23.09 @ 8:56AM
Dave, being a former resident of Oregon and being fortunate enough to have traveled around the globe twice I can say that we at least here in the United States have the cleanest environment in the industrialized world.
This can be attributed to environmental activism and legislation. But with any activist type of movement, it can go too far and become radicalized that causes more harm than good.
When I was a kid in Oregon my sister and I used to walk along Highway 101 and collect soft drink cans and bottles that were thrown from vehicles and took them to the store to get the refund for spending money. Being young kids we didn't realize at the time that this can collecting was a form of common sense of environmentalism that worked.
I can maybe understand and sympathize with your anger and frustration no matter who is sitting on the political throne.
But if you really sit down and think about it and strip away all the political crap, you'll find out that Conservatives points of view and yours are not that really far apart and in some cases maybe the same from a political and environmental standpoint.
One thing that I have learned in my short fifty-one years of life is to have learned the art of compromise. I just wish I would have learned this allot sooner because I would have saved myself much grief. Anger isn't good, because over time it turns you into the very thing that you are trying to destroy and the end result is the ultimate destruction of one's self.
Marc Jeric| 3.23.09 @ 9:50AM
Having escaped from a communist hell I can recognize a revolutionary marxist when he spouts two words - and David Matthews is surely one of them. He forgets that Bush inherited Clinton recession of 2000-2001 which was then aggravated by Clinton-caused terrorist attack of 9/11 (you remember Jamie Gorelick's memo threatening jail to an FBI agent passing information to the CIA?). From 2002 to 2006 we had 5 years of tremendous economic growth due to Bush tax cuts. But then in the 2006 elections we got Democrat Congress - and promptly in December 2007 the present recession started with no end in sight. We are not faced with creeping socialism - we are becoming the Union od American Soviet States under the leadership of our Community Organizer in-Chief, Abu Hussein from Kenya and his ACORN brownshirts, following the precepts of Sol Alinsky and that "Frank" from Obama's book. Perhaps our David hopes to become the Administration's Secretary of Political Correctness or perhaps the chief of our own domestic KGB.
Marc Jeric| 3.23.09 @ 10:04AM
When the words "communist" and "socialist" became associated with mass murders and utter poverty our Democrats became "liberals" and "progressives". Also, the Natural Resources Defens Council is peopled with former communists bent on destroying this country from within. They killed nuclear power - the safest industry ever in the history of the industrial world; not a fly perished in 50 years of operation in this country. Theyare the direct cause of over 100 milion deaths in Africa from malaria when they invented the lie about DDT (it has been shown to be degradable, not having affected a single bird or fish). The CFC's have never reached the stratosphere, being heavier than air and falling to the ground being hungrily consumed by soil microbes; however, the cost of refrigeration doubled and so postponed its introduction in the undeveloped world with uncounted millions more dead from spoiled food. NRDC in power - indeed! And now in charge of globaloney warming hoax!
Bill Husein O'Stalin| 3.23.09 @ 10:35AM
It's beginning to feel more and more like home here.
http://www.activistcash.com/organization_overview.cfm/oid/13
The Center for Science in the Public Interest (CSPI) is the undisputed leader among America’s “food police.” CSPI was founded in 1971 by current executive director Michael Jacobson, and two of his co-workers at Ralph Nader’s Center for the Study of Responsive Law. Since then, CSPI’s joyless eating club has issued hundreds of high-profile—and highly questionable—reports condemning soft drinks, fat substitutes, irradiated meat, biotech food crops, French fries, and just about anything that tastes good.
CSPI fancies itself a “watchdog” group but behaves more like an attack dog, savaging restaurants, disparaging adults’ food choices, and discouraging even moderate alcohol consumption. It famously dubbed fettuccine alfredo a “heart attack on a plate.” Its nutrition nags encourage the public to “just say no” to fried mozzarella as though it were an illegal drug.
With a long history of writing letters to restaurants threatening legal action over purported mislabeling of “low fat” menu items, it surprised no one when CSPI graduated to lawsuit threats over the absence of nutritional labeling. In July of 2003, Jacobson teamed with legal shark John Banzhaf to formally warn six U.S. ice cream retailers that lawsuits may result from their refusal to immediately "list the calorie (and, ideally, saturated fat) content of each item" on menu boards.
CSPI’s self-anointed “experts” also encourage “a whole lot of lawsuits” against fast-food restaurants (the group says it is “looking at tobacco as a model”), mostly because they see legal action as leverage to enact all the restrictions on food they have long supported. These include, but are by no means limited to:
* extra taxes on foods with fat, sugar, and sodium (the so-called “Twinkie tax”);
* government-mandated “warning” labels on high-fat, high-calorie menu items;
* mandatory nutrition information on restaurant menus, menu-boards, meat packages, hamburger wrappers, food commercials, ice cream stores, movie theatres, bakeries, hot dog stands, etc., etc.
* requirements that broadcasters give free “equal time” to government-supported advertisements of “healthy” foods;
* restrictions on baby food packaging requiring that tapioca be labeled as “chemically modified food starch”;
* labels warning parents that soft drinks may be replacing low-fat milk, fruit juice, and other drinks in their children’s diets;
* labels warning of contamination from fresh, unpasteurized juices;
* a government-sponsored “Must-Not-See-TV Week” campaign; and
* stricter regulations on genetically enhanced foods, which are already the most regulated food products in the U.S.
To accomplish these goals, CSPI sends a flurry of petitions and letters to the FDA, the Department of Agriculture, the FTC, the Department of Health and Human Services, and any other government agency that has a role to play in regulating food. Each of these actions is accompanied by a breathless press release that seeks to scare ordinary consumers about the food they eat.
So Many Targets, So Little Time
CSPI complains about so many foods and beverages that it’s hard to think of anything that has escaped their wrath. Even so, the group has a special animus towards a few common foods. CSPI co-founder Michael Jacobson considers caffeine such a blight on civilization that he complains about people socializing over coffee. Unsurprisingly, he suggests that Americans patronize a “carrot juice house” instead. CSPI’s in-house food policies are so strict that Jacobson once reportedly intended to get rid of the office coffee machine—until one-third of his 60 employees threatened to quit.
CSPI also has a bias against meat and dairy. Jacobson, himself a vegetarian, wrote in an issue of CSPI’s Nutrition Action Healthletter that proper nutrition “means eating a more plant-based diet … It means getting your fats from plants (vegetable oils and nuts) and fish, not animals (meats, milk cheese, and ice cream).” In keeping with his personal vegetarianism, Jacobson quietly sits on the advisory board of the “Great American Meatout,” an annual event operated by the animal rights zealots at the Farm Animal Reform Movement (FARM). Alcohol, even when consumed in moderation, is perhaps CSPI’s most hated product. The group’s Healthletter has asserted that “the last thing the world needs is more drinkers, even moderate ones.” CSPI wants hefty increases in beer taxes, increased restrictions on adult-beverage marketing, and even poster-sized warning labels placed in restaurants. George Hacker, who leads CSPI’s anti-alcohol effort, has accused winemakers of “hawking America’s costliest and most devastating drug.”
rr| 3.23.09 @ 10:37AM
Marc Jeric, you are quite right. Many enviro causes have been shown to be nonsense such as CFC's. Others have serious unintendended consequences like banning DDT. Currently, there are two problems: like the fanatics they are they do not know when to quit and will force society to undergo ridiculous costs to wring out the last little bit of pollution (re California). Secondly, they are rich, entrenched, corrupt, and arrogant not unlike certain big corporations they condemn.
We will no doubt see all of this coming together soon to the detriment of American civilization under the rubric of "climate change" mitigation.
Raoul Ortega| 3.23.09 @ 10:48AM
I thought I recognized that trolling style. A little something from David Mathews past:
Should David Mathews Be Banned?"
Geoff| 3.23.09 @ 10:50AM
I read somewhere that, until early January ‘09, Carol M. Browner, President Barack Obama's pick as a global warming czar, was listed as one of 14 leaders of a socialist group's Commission for a Sustainable World Society, which calls for "global governance" and says rich countries must shrink their economies to address climate change. By Thursday (1/8/09 according to The Washington Times 1/12/09), Mrs. Browner's name and biography had been removed from Socialist International's Web page, though a photo of her speaking June 30 to the group's congress in Greece was still available. Socialist International, an umbrella group for many of the world's social democratic political parties…
Your witness?
Skep41 | 3.23.09 @ 11:28AM
One German politician described the Greens as being like a watermelon; green on the outside and red on the inside. The nonsensical advocacy of windmill power and solar power as replacements for coal and natural gas are ludicrous and will bring our economy crashing down. Marc Jeric has pointed out some of the disasters caused by the media hysterics that the Greens have become so expert at ginning up. Now that an anti-drilling, anti-nuclear power government is firmly in place we can look for the standard of living to decline rapidly. Our only hope is that the David Matthews-type morons of the Obama Administration will be so enamored by the sound of their own voices that they will cause themselves a political disaster before they succeed in destroying our economy and our freedom.
Pingback| 3.23.09 @ 11:38AM
Topics about Economy » Archive » The American Spectator : "It's Not About the Money" links to this page. Here’s an excerpt:
Obama Drools| 3.23.09 @ 11:41AM
Isn't this poster the same David Matthews whose tour bus emptied out it's septic tank "ahem" deposits into as river in Chicago?
Obama Drools| 3.23.09 @ 11:48AM
It's apparent why liberals come here to post (rather long, tedious, and fact challenged) their warped views:
Because the fellow Conservatives here treat them as individuals, actually addressing them---individually.
See, in liberal world-view, everyone is an identity, i.e. minority, single-female/single parent out-of-wedlock, environmentalist ( or science denier) etc. etc.
So instead of Kossholes, Democrat Ideas Underground and Olbermanazi blog, they come here longing for individuality.
Feels great, doesn't it Regressives (I don't know why they call themselves "progressives", they want everything a** backwards to the 30's and 70's).
Obama Drools| 3.23.09 @ 11:54AM
Dimid DoorMat-hews,
Bush trampled the Constitution-----how? How did it affect your life? Are you imprisoned in your parents basement (I assume that's where you are)?
Obama Drools| 3.23.09 @ 12:07PM
Dimweed,
I love it when you respond because you get to type Obama AND Drools.
Since I'm not responding to an educated, informed person, neither are my questions intended to be thus.
What is with the "Hello" before each response? Obviously a serial web program that you no doubt obtained from ACORN.
PolishKnight| 3.23.09 @ 12:10PM
David Mathews, one question: Do you drive a car that runs on gasoline and what power source did you use to power the computer to criticize the evil oil, coal, and nuclear powered electrical plants?
Liberalism is a total pipe dream that at best bites the hand that feeds it. Your whole life is about bashing the evil right because you don't have an agenda to make people's lives better or even your own for that matter. You're just a kid spray painting an overpass because you don't have anything else better to do.
Obama Drools| 3.23.09 @ 12:16PM
Since Chris Matthews gets a tingle up his leg......David must get one in his ____.
Where else would a liberal feel it these days after Chairman Zero has been a gaftastic, Marxism-astic, blowhardastic disOpointment.
He truly treats his voters/supporters like a bunch of morons. You deserve only the best David.
It must be deflating to wake up and lose even the New York times AND Vanity Fair on the same day.
David Mathews | 3.23.09 @ 12:19PM
Hello Anonymous Conservative Drools,
* "I love it when you respond because you get to type Obama AND Drools. "
In order to answer a fool it is necessary to properly identify the fool.
* "Since I'm not responding to an educated, informed person, neither are my questions intended to be thus. "
You spent way too much time listening to talk radio, conservative drooler.
* "What is with the "Hello" before each response? "
Does that trouble you, anonymous conservative drooler?
David Mathews | 3.23.09 @ 12:22PM
Hello PolishKnight,
* "David Mathews, one question: Do you drive a car that runs on gasoline and what power source did you use to power the computer to criticize the evil oil, coal, and nuclear powered electrical plants? "
I did not create this civilization and won't take any responsibility for its existence.
The automobile, the computer and the power plants are all unsustainable and they are going to pass away regardless of your wishes otherwise. Destroying the world for the sake of the automobile and the internet is beyond foolish. Driving humankind extinct for the sake of capitalism is also foolish.
* "Liberalism is a total pipe dream that at best bites the hand that feeds it. Your whole life is about bashing the evil right because you don't have an agenda to make people's lives better or even your own for that matter. You're just a kid spray painting an overpass because you don't have anything else better to do. "
Blah blah blah ... talk radio blather.
David Mathews | 3.23.09 @ 12:24PM
Hello Anonymous Conservative Drooler,
* "He truly treats his voters/supporters like a bunch of morons. You deserve only the best David.
* "It must be deflating to wake up and lose even the New York times AND Vanity Fair on the same day. "
Conservatives are so bitter because they know that all they have left is Fox News & Talk Radio & Rush Limbaugh & Sarah Palin & Bobby Jindal.
The Republican party has died. Conservatives are bitter, angry and whiny losers ... aren't they?
Dustoff| 3.23.09 @ 12:36PM
Raoul Ortega\\_____________
Yeah good old DM just can't find a home. I've been watching this fool get kick from one blog after another. He just can't help himself. LOL
Pingback| 3.23.09 @ 12:36PM
The American Spectator : "It's Not About the Money" | Money Blog : 10 Dollars : Money links to this page. Here’s an excerpt:
Dustoff| 3.23.09 @ 12:38PM
I see in the news that 3 fools are trying to reach the North Pole. But because the weather is so bad (warming)
They need to rescued.... Dummies.
Never play Poker with mother nature.
Obama Drools| 3.23.09 @ 12:42PM
Er..."David"....read your own posts. Who is angry?
You guys won---you said it yourself. Why are you here? What are you so angry about? Why aren't you on another site orgasmic in your victor and victory? Still fighting? Over what?---on a Conservative site no less. Does posting here give you bigger breasts?
Is it because you think it, Chairman Zero's reign, will be short-lived? History indicates it is so.
Good God woman, don't you have an AIG employee to harass?
Ah, always the bridesmaid, never the bride huh "David"?
David Mathews | 3.23.09 @ 1:23PM
Hello Dustoff,
* "Yeah good old DM just can't find a home. I've been watching this fool get kick from one blog after another. He just can't help himself. LOL "
The Truth is seldom well received by fools ... Jesus had a similar experience in His own time.
* "I see in the news that 3 fools are trying to reach the North Pole. But because the weather is so bad (warming) "
Of course, the weather is extreme in the polar regions. Of course, people who challenge Nature sometimes lose the battle. This sort of news is only news to scientifically illiterate conservatives.
* "Never play Poker with mother nature. "
This is precisely what humankind is doing as our species treats the planet like a sewer and destroys ecosystems and drives species extinct and provoke climate change sufficient to destroy civilizaion.
When a species loses its gamble against Mother Nature that species goes extinct.
David Mathews | 3.23.09 @ 1:26PM
Hello Anonymous Conservative Drooler,
* "You guys won---you said it yourself. Why are you here? What are you so angry about? Why aren't you on another site orgasmic in your victor and victory? Still fighting? Over what?---on a Conservative site no less. Does posting here give you bigger breasts? "
I am here to tell the anonymous nobodies of the conservative movement that they have lost and explain to them why they have lost so that they might cease wandering in the toxic sewer of conservative politics and economics and adopt a much healthier lifestyle and thought process.
* "Is it because you think it, Chairman Zero's reign, will be short-lived? History indicates it is so. "
Conservatives are such delusional losers that they believe such nonsense. Poor Rush Limbaugh's running out of oxycontin!
The intellectuals among the conservatives have now all abandoned the movement to the lunatics, the extremists and the anonymous conservative droolers.
Dustoff| 3.23.09 @ 1:37PM
You guys will love this one. This Island was suppose to be underwater by the GW fools. (Al Bore) Check this out.... LOL
________________________
http://wattsupwiththat.com/2009/03/19/despite-popular-opinion-and-calls-to-action-the-maldives-is-not-being-overrun-by-sea-level-rise/
David Mathews | 3.23.09 @ 2:02PM
Hello Skep41,
* "Why do you hate the human race so much, Dave? The industrial society that we have created has given a level of health and wealth to everyone that is unprecedented in world history. To you its a sewer and we should all die as quickly as possible. "
1. Those who define poisioning the Earth and handling the planet as a sewer as "love for humankind" are seriously deluded.
2. Industrial civilization's Health & Weatlh are an enhancement of the present generation's condition at the expense of all future generations.
3. To say that industrial civlization generates Health & Wealth is to neglect the billions of humans who are neither healthy nor wealthy. You can include among these the moribidly obese perpetually stressed perpetually unhappy self-medicated citizens of the US of A (see: Rush Limbaugh).
4. Humankind will go extinct because of the sewer that humankind has created. Foolish actions have horrendous consequences.
* "What does that say about your altruism? It highlights your own personal misery and the essential wretchedness of your own angry soul. "
Smokers say the same thing to those who criticize nicotine addiction, alchoholics says the same to those who criticism alcoholism. Drug addicts cannot stand anyone criticizing their drug.
* "George Bush never proposed a Fairness Doctrine & " blah blah blah talk radio ranting.
This sort of irrational talk makes sense only to the Fox News - Talk Radio crowd.
* "He has never made a specific point about any of the articles he's supposed to be commenting on and is just here to end the discussion. "
Blah blah blah ... more bitter loser conservative wailing. Do you ever have an original thought, Skep41?
David Mathews | 3.23.09 @ 2:06PM
Hello Dustoff,
* "http://wattsupwiththat.com/2009/03/19/despite-popular-opinion-and-calls-to-action-the-maldives-is-not-being-overrun-by-sea-level-rise/ "
Did you know that the Permian Extinction is evidence for Noah's Flood?
http://www.icr.org/article/4569/
So the Earth is less than 10,000 years old. The geological consensus is wrong!
Dustoff| 3.23.09 @ 3:04PM
DM....
Wrong is wrong. and on this one YOUR wrong again.
Like it or not.. the water level you eco nuts said would rise. Did not!
Spin it any way you want.
Melvin| 3.23.09 @ 3:37PM
Dave Mathews, come on, you sound like an intelligent human being, and even you know that we as a human race cannot go back to living in caves and wearing animal skins.
You cannot go around saying, "NO!" to everything that deals with the environment. And living in a cave is not a option, but living in the United States does give "you" the freedom to do so, but please do not force me and my family to go along with you and your radical ideas in how you think I should live my life.
This is just not rational thinking and you darn well know this.
But I will say this, many of your misguided opinions do provide lively conversation.
Dustoff| 3.23.09 @ 3:44PM
Melvin.
Buddy.... I've been watching DM for a few years now. YOUR wasting you time with him. This is why he get's kicked from on blog to another.
Shows up at another and does it again. The fool never learns.
Sorry.
Big Leo| 3.23.09 @ 5:08PM
Good Ol' DM. The more you kick him, the more he writes. He 's masochistic. We could quiet down the site and get back to an intelligent discussion if we all chipped in enough to send him over to Mistress Debbie, who would whip him into shape soon enough.
Louis Jenkins| 3.23.09 @ 5:19PM
To believe that a cap and trade tax will be used for the "good of the world" is mere foolishness. Once the tax law is passed and the revenues begin to arrive the funds will be siphoned off for other uses, or line pockets. Bank bailouts, automanufacturing, congressional pay raises, etc., you get the picture. If the UN gets an international cap and trade tax it will go into the pockets of third world tyrants and dictators. It is difficult to believe that any revenues from cap and trade will go towards its intended target. Why don't we just run our powerplants, heat our homes, and power our cars off all the extra useless dollars that will be laying around in 6 months? Or better yet, harness all the hot air eminating from Obama, Congress, Greenies, and the media to power our nation! Our nation would be truly energy independent.
Chemman| 3.23.09 @ 5:20PM
Folks get over it, DM is intellectually dishonest, a moral coward and lacks the strength of any convictions. All he wants is to have us do as he says not as he does. Its easy to trash our society while he's living off the fruits of it. He will never grow a big enough pair to lead by example.
David Mathews | 3.23.09 @ 5:34PM
Hello Dustoff,
* "Like it or not.. the water level you eco nuts said would rise. Did not! "
You are speaking in an ignorant and inaccurate manner, Dustoff. Anyone who happens to spend their time by the coastline over many decades (as I have) can personally verify that the sea level is rising, slowly but perceptibly.
This is one reason why, for example, Florida has to spend millions of dollars every year replenishing its beaches. The rising water of the oceans scours away the beaches.
Less fortunate and less wealthy places lose their beaches, wetlands and eventually ... their habitations.
David Mathews | 3.23.09 @ 5:37PM
Hello Melvin,
* "Dave Mathews, come on, you sound like an intelligent human being, and even you know that we as a human race cannot go back to living in caves and wearing animal skins. "
If humankind cannot do this ... and I do agree with you, it is impossible for humankind to do this ... then the Homo sapiens will go extinct. Nature is harsh and unmercificul but she is always just.
* "You cannot go around saying, "NO!" to everything that deals with the environment. And living in a cave is not a option, but living in the United States does give "you" the freedom to do so, but please do not force me and my family to go along with you and your radical ideas in how you think I should live my life. "
You and your family might want to live in a sewer of pollution but there is no reason whatsoever why the rest of the world should tolerate your lifestyle at the expense of driving the species extinct.
If humankind is unwilling to sacrifices the little things our species will sacrifice everything. But don't worry, though, life does go on without us.
David Mathews | 3.23.09 @ 5:40PM
Hello Louis,
* "To believe that a cap and trade tax will be used for the "good of the world" is mere foolishness. "
In other words:
Since going on a diet seldom leads people to lose weight permanently, the morbidly obese ought to keep on eating in a morbidly obese manner without regard to their failing heart and shortening life span.
Species that succumb to greed & gluttony don't survive for very long on a planet such as the Earth. When Nature gets angry such species are quickly driven to extinction.
David Mathews | 3.23.09 @ 5:44PM
Hello Chemman,
* "All he wants is to have us do as he says not as he does. Its easy to trash our society while he's living off the fruits of it. He will never grow a big enough pair to lead by example. "
blah blah blah ... Jesus led by example and his civilization crucified him. Evil, currupt, greedy & gluttonous civilizations aren't capable of reformation and this is the reason why such civilizations collapse and cease to exist.
Our own civilization is dying right now and there isn't anything anyone can do to prevent the collapse from occurring. A valiant effort by the government right now only serves to delay the inevitable. When the bill ultimately becomes due, though, the United States of America won't exist any longer ... gone forever like the Soviet Union.
Then you people will learn how to live differently simply because you have no choice. America has transformed from the world's wealthiest nation to the world's greatest welfare nation to the world's greatest bankrupt & insolvent nation.
Next stop: Collapse.
Plan your future accordingly.
Bill Bailey| 3.23.09 @ 5:55PM
David Mathews, put down the bong. Your brain is, like, totally fried, man.
Big Leo| 3.23.09 @ 5:57PM
Anyone who has been interested in the ecology for the last fifty years can see very clearly that the air and water in America are cleaner, not dirtier than they were before 1970. All studies support this statement. The alarmism of greenies is based on a lie; that rich capitalism produces pollution. The countries that have air and water pollution worse than ours, which is most of them, are poor countries, not rich ones.
Most of the last forty years have been under Republican presidents and lots of it under Republican Congresses. Alarmist gabble about Republicans being in favor of poisonous air are to put it very simply, insane.
The emotional need of mentally unhealthy people to believe they are being poisoned, an obvious sign of incipient paranoia, is the main motivation behind the redefinition of carbon dioxide as a pollutant. There is no scientific basis for this whatsoever. I've worked with the mentally ill as a counselor, and you will fine more greenies and anti-nuke enthusiasts there than any place this side of Beverly Hills.
So rave on, Dave. I'm going for a walk in the pristine air I enjoy in my town on a daily basis. If you're right, I'll never make it home alive.
David Mathews | 3.23.09 @ 5:59PM
Hello Bill Bailey,
* "David Mathews, put down the bong. Your brain is, like, totally fried, man. "
Tell Rush Limbaugh to stop popping oxycontin ... otherwise he just might lose his hearing!
David Mathews | 3.23.09 @ 6:03PM
Hello Big Leo,
* "Anyone who has been interested in the ecology for the last fifty years can see very clearly that the air and water in America are cleaner, not dirtier than they were before 1970. All studies support this statement. The alarmism of greenies is based on a lie; that rich capitalism produces pollution. The countries that have air and water pollution worse than ours, which is most of them, are poor countries, not rich ones. "
Don't be stupid, Big Leo. The only reason why America has become cleaner over the last several decades is because of Taxation & Regulation, the sort which you conservatives fought from the very beginning and fortunately these are battles which the conservatives lost.
* "Most of the last forty years have been under Republican presidents and lots of it under Republican Congresses. Alarmist gabble about Republicans being in favor of poisonous air are to put it very simply, insane. "
Eh ... the Republicans fought Taxation & Regulation tooth & nail from the very beginning. Republican presidents have done everything within their power to reduce or bypass environmental regulations, too.
* "The emotional need of mentally unhealthy people to believe they are being poisoned, an obvious sign of incipient paranoia, is the main motivation behind the redefinition of carbon dioxide as a pollutant. There is no scientific basis for this whatsoever. I've worked with the mentally ill as a counselor, and you will fine more greenies and anti-nuke enthusiasts there than any place this side of Beverly Hills. "
Blah blah blah ... anti-science talk radio blather. Conservatives never have to think, do they?
* "I'm going for a walk in the pristine air I enjoy in my town on a daily basis. If you're right, I'll never make it home alive. "
If your town has clean air you can think the environmentalists who were fighting on your behalf even though they were also fighting against you.
Big Leo| 3.23.09 @ 6:12PM
Let me repeat : The emotional need of mentally unhealthy people to believe they are being poisoned, an obvious sign of incipient paranoia, is the main motivation behind the redefinition of carbon dioxide as a pollutant. There is no scientific basis for this whatsoever. I've worked with the mentally ill as a counselor, and you will fine more greenies and anti-nuke enthusiasts there than any place this side of Beverly Hills.
Reading DM's posts prove my point here more clearly than I could without this egregious example before us. It's impossible to discuss science with him, since he doesn't use science. It's impossible to discuss politics with him, since he ignores obvious facts about the bipartisan nature of most environmental legislation.
One blessing is that I am not active as a counselor right now, so I can regard him as an interesting specimen to illustrate my point rather than as a patient.
David Mathews | 3.23.09 @ 6:21PM
Hello Big Leo,
* "Let me repeat : The emotional need of mentally unhealthy people to believe they are being poisoned, an obvious sign of incipient paranoia, is the main motivation behind the redefinition of carbon dioxide as a pollutant. "
God, conservatives are really scientifically illiterate. Not only are you ignorant of climatology, you are ignorant of psychology as well.
Undoubtedly there tabacco lobby will say that fear of toxins in cigarettes constittutes a paranoia, too.
* "Reading DM's posts prove my point here more clearly than I could without this egregious example before us. It's impossible to discuss science with him, since he doesn't use science. It's impossible to discuss politics with him, since he ignores obvious facts about the bipartisan nature of most environmental legislation. "
If you want science, you can have science:
http://www.nsidc.org/arcticseaicenews/
As to the "obvious bipartisan nature of most environmental legislation" ... I've got to ask, what has happened to the Republicans?
At one time, Republicans were slightly responsible in their treatment of the Earth but recently the party has become a politically unpopular extremist minority fighting against science on behalf of pollution of all sorts. Evidently all of the sane Republicans have left the party and joined the Democrats. Only the Limbots are left in the Republican party.
* "One blessing is that I am not active as a counselor right now, so I can regard him as an interesting specimen to illustrate my point rather than as a patient. "
That you aren't conseling anymore is a blessing for you and an even greater blessing for your former patients.
brutus| 3.23.09 @ 6:36PM
I'm no fan of the NRDC and all those other Neo-Druid nitwits who would "knee-cap" our economy. But Mr. Heidenreich, I do have serious questions about your column.
PRECISELY HOW will the growth of alternative energy industries, "such as wind and solar..", (come) "..at the unstated cost of many more millions of jobs lost."? And where are those millions of jobs today that will be lost tomorrow due to the expansion of the wind and solar energy industries?
Up until the recent King Oh-Bummer's $800 billion porkulus bill (containing $18 billion for wind, solar, and associated transmission infratructure), all federal subsidies for the wind energy industry have come only in the form of federal production tax credits. No big federal cash handouts for wind, like with farm subsidies.
Furthermore, in places that have seen dramatic growth in wind energy, as here in Texas, we find wind companies financing new wind turbine technician training programs at local technical colleges because the wind companies can't find enough workers to fill the growing job demand.
In other words, lots of jobs are being created ($40-$50K for the turbine techs), so many jobs they can't fill them all. Then there are the jobs in support industries springing up around the windfarms. And the high paying temporary construction jobs to build the windfarms, which aren't "temporary" because the workers move from one windfarm to the next (I built 8 windfarms in 7 states over 6 years, along with the 200 - 400 other workers at each site), and it was lucrative work.). And don't forget the countless manufacturing jobs building the wind turbine and associated (transformers, electric cables and switchgear, etc.) components.
So exactly where are the "many more millions of jobs lost", as you claim, and how will wind energy industry growth cause them to be lost?
Most TAS readers aren't the koolaide-drinking lemmings you'd find at the DailyKompost. So please don't use Drive-by MSM tactics of throwing bombs like "many millions more jobs lost" without some hard stats or Heritage Foundation-like studies to back up your claims.
brutus| 3.23.09 @ 6:45PM
I wonder, if we all simply ignore David Mathews, would he get mad and just go away?
David Mathews | 3.23.09 @ 6:45PM
Hello Brutus,
* "Up until the recent King Oh-Bummer's $800 billion porkulus bill ...
* "Most TAS readers aren't the koolaide-drinking lemmings you'd find at the DailyKompost. So please don't use Drive-by MSM tactics ... "
Oh, God ... we've found a dittohead!
Anyone who gets their science from a college dropout talk radio shock jock seriously needs to read a book.
David Mathews | 3.23.09 @ 6:46PM
Hello Brutus,
* "I wonder, if we all simply ignore David Mathews, would he get mad and just go away? "
If everyone ignored Rush Limbaugh would he still make a sound in his radio studio ...
Big Leo| 3.23.09 @ 7:00PM
Brutus,
Who is this David Mathews you want us to ignore? Never heard of him.
brutus| 3.23.09 @ 7:13PM
Dear Dave,
You must be confused.
I'm here at TAS looking for facts on today's issues. Many TAS writers, and also at Human Events, NRO, American Thinker, etc., don't make empty claims but annotate their columns with the sources of their stats and studies. Some meticulously so, like Ann Coulter. My first post is asking Mr. Heidenreich for his.
I'm a 'dittohead' because I agree with Rush most of the time, but not always, as I have just explained my doubts to Mr. Heidenreich. I borrow from Mr. Limbaugh's lexicon because he's better at that sort of thing than me; that's why he gets paid millions to do his job and I don't. And I certainly don't begrudge him for that.
Speaking of jobs, where's your's? I see from your posts you've been here ALL DAY LONG. And all day long on some previous days as well. You either haven't taken my advice from an earlier post, to get a job and become a productive member of Amercan society. Or you've already achieved the closest thing to immortality on this earth - you have a government job you can't be fired from, allowing you to sit there all day trying to persuade the sensible to believe the insensible.
David Mathews | 3.23.09 @ 7:23PM
Hello Brutus,
* "I'm here at TAS looking for facts on today's issues. Many TAS writers, and also at Human Events, NRO, American Thinker, etc., don't make empty claims but annotate their columns with the sources of their stats and studies. Some meticulously so, like Ann Coulter. "
I've visited all of these websites and must say that your standards are pretty low ... which is consistent with your dittohead status and evident lack of scientific literacy or education of any sort.
* "I'm a 'dittohead' because I agree with Rush most of the time, but not always, as I have just explained my doubts to Mr. Heidenreich. I borrow from Mr. Limbaugh's lexicon because he's better at that sort of thing than me; that's why he gets paid millions to do his job and I don't. And I certainly don't begrudge him for that. "
You are a dittohead because you lack the education and the intelligence necessary to think for your own self.
Rush Limbaugh is a big, fat idiot.
I've read his books and I watched his television show, too. He's a big, fat idiot.
I don't listen to his radio program, though, and I feel terribly sorry for anyone who does. There's got to be a better use for even an uneducated conservative's time ...
* "Speaking of jobs, where's your's? I see from your posts you've been here ALL DAY LONG. And all day long on some previous days as well. You either haven't taken my advice from an earlier post, to get a job and become a productive member of Amercan society. Or you've already achieved the closest thing to immortality on this earth - you have a government job you can't be fired from, allowing you to sit there all day trying to persuade the sensible to believe the insensible. "
I spend my time as I wish and do whatever I wish.
Big Leo| 3.23.09 @ 7:29PM
Big Leo's Big Science
I've solved the climate question. In 1975, when there was a big global cooling panic, the earth started to warm. In 1998, when the global warming craze was going full tilt, the earth started to cool. Obviously, there's a relationship here. The question is, does socialist opinion actually change the climate to do the opposite of what socialist opinion says, or are socialists just naturally wrong?
Before the current global warming mania, the consensus among climatologists was that we were in between ice ages, and that climate warmed and cooled for various meteorological and astronomical (i.e., sun-related) reasons. This is obviously still true. If there is any truth to anthropogenic global warming, I say encourage it, because it would prevent the almost inevitable ice age to follow. Fire up your engines, gentlemen. We have world to save.
Big Leo| 3.23.09 @ 7:31PM
DM says, "I spend my time as I wish and do whatever I wish. " So -- government worker or mother's basement?
David Mathews | 3.23.09 @ 7:38PM
Hello Big Leo,
* "In 1975, when there was a big global cooling panic, the earth started to warm. In 1998, when the global warming craze was going full tilt, the earth started to cool. Obviously, there's a relationship here. The question is, does socialist opinion actually change the climate to do the opposite of what socialist opinion says, or are socialists just naturally wrong? "
This is so stupid ... dittohead much?
* "Before the current global warming mania, the consensus among climatologists was that we were in between ice ages, and that climate warmed and cooled for various meteorological and astronomical (i.e., sun-related) reasons. "
Conservatives are so scientifically illiterate it really is sad ... what happened to education in America?
Every minute spent listening to Rush Limbaugh subtracts one IQ point from your brain!
* "If there is any truth to anthropogenic global warming, I say encourage it, because it would prevent the almost inevitable ice age to follow. Fire up your engines, gentlemen. We have world to save. "
Again ... an exceptionally stupid thing for a conservative to say. The ice ages are governed by a much larger cycle than global warming (having to do with the orbit and inclination of the Earth) and therefore involve time spans much larger than that of civilization itself ( 10,000 years doesn't amount to much in geological time).
The Homo sapiens will be extinct long before the next ice age occurs.
* "DM says, "I spend my time as I wish and do whatever I wish. " So -- government worker or mother's basement? "
Evidently, dittoheads can only think of two different things at once. This is often a result of a lack of education and/or a lack of intelligence.
stmichrick| 3.23.09 @ 7:49PM
Melvin;
Dave Mathews is not an 'intelligent person.' He is a wise guy who thinks he is putting right- thinking, reasonable people in their place when it comes to Global Warming hysteria.
His 'misguided opinions' are no longer entertaining and this individual obviously needs help.
I think he attended a seminar where all the silly sandal-wearing lefties thought it would be cool to monopoloize GW threads on conservative websites.
Anyone here convinced by Mr GlobalMathews?
David Mathews | 3.23.09 @ 7:55PM
Hello Stmichrick,
* "Dave Mathews is not an 'intelligent person.' He is a wise guy who thinks he is putting right- thinking, reasonable people in their place when it comes to Global Warming hysteria. "
This is so very ironic when coming from the Rush Limbaugh - Sarah Palin - George W. Bush cultist. Hey, Republicans ... where's the intelligence?
The intelligent Republicans were the RINOs and they left the Republican party when it was taken over by anti-science, anti-education, pro-fundamentalist extremists.
So you are a politically irrelevant minority that might as well get used to losing because you represent a failed, outdated ideology.
* "His 'misguided opinions' are no longer entertaining and this individual obviously needs help. "
Conservatives needs help ... they need a science education and they also need to read books.
* "I think he attended a seminar where all the silly sandal-wearing lefties thought it would be cool to monopoloize GW threads on conservative websites. "
If you want ot argue science, let's argue science ... but there's no science among the dittoheads!
Big Leo| 3.23.09 @ 8:13PM
Irony goes right over DM's head, doesn't it?
frankg| 3.23.09 @ 8:14PM
And we see now how libs can't stop rewriting and airbrushing history, and squeezing in propaganda like "cons radical minority irrelevant".
Its just that people have to run from so many socialist utopias because of the lack of freedoms, sometimes at risk of getting shot or sent to a camp, crushing of dissent, the constant control and hypocrisy, and inevitable schmoozing that becomes enthroned between big government and big corporations that will dominate the politics of said ruling classes and try to do the same to the world.
What we're seeing here with these trolls is the belief in oligarchies, and the reduction of citizens to "kept" populations to be managed, reduced, moved, fenced in, lied to, misinformed, controlled, intimidated, and on and on. Or, the irrelevance of truth.
As to pollution being the hallmark of the "extremist right wing" or whatever you want to smear it as, remember the greatest ecological disasters occurred under leftist regimes.
Chernobyl. The Aral sea disaster. China's great "leaps" forward and five year plans, whatever they were called, that contributed to horrific famines. Places and events that no one can live near or took so many lives. Look at the treatment chinese receive under programs today in building projects. They're almost like slaves. Check out the documentary "tank man" about life under "progressive" rulers, revolving around tianamen square massacre.
You trolls know why we don't trust you, and talk about resisting.
You lie. Your beliefs have destroyed whole populations, whole ecologies around the world, there's too much experience with the oppression of billions of people by rulers and their minions who think they know what's best for the ones they allow to live, just in the 20th century alone.
Go to that "happy" world yourselves, progressives. We'll choose freedom.
David Mathews | 3.23.09 @ 8:19PM
Hello frank,
* "As to pollution being the hallmark of the "extremist right wing" or whatever you want to smear it as, remember the greatest ecological disasters occurred under leftist regimes. "
Conservatives aren't well known for their respect for the environment nor for their opposition to pollution ... as demonstrated a thousand times over by the words of conservatives.
* "Your beliefs have destroyed whole populations, whole ecologies around the world, there's too much experience with the oppression of billions of people by rulers and their minions who think they know what's best for the ones they allow to live, just in the 20th century alone.
Go to that "happy" world yourselves, progressives. We'll choose freedom. "
Those who equate pollution and environmental destruction with freedom are choosing extinction, not freedom.
stmichrick| 3.23.09 @ 8:22PM
Enjoy it MrGlobalMathews;
You are maintaining a tradition of sky-is-falling schemes to consolidate power to leftist government.
What do you make of the recently overlooked California-sized piece of sea ice that was discovered this month?
stmichrick| 3.23.09 @ 8:30PM
The rhetorical pie fight with Mr GlobalMathews continues:
Have you noticed that when geologists get involved (they evaluate evidence of ancient climates); you lose.
Freki| 3.23.09 @ 8:39PM
Hey Dave;
How do you masturbate and type at the same time? It's a shame you have no friends and are still a virgin. You need to grow up, lighten up and get out more. They will let you out if you act nice.
And maybe give you some crayons instead of that keyboard you spend your life on.
Big Leo| 3.23.09 @ 8:44PM
MY NOBEL PRIZE WINNERS ARE BIGGER THAN YOUR NOBEL PRIZE WINNERS
The anthropogenic global warming argument is framed by the ignorant in terms of science vs. ignorance. In truth, it is between scientists with differing ways of interpreting often contradictory data. It is difficult for people who are not climatologists to make a real informed decision. What scientific training I have is in astronomy, which prejudices me in favor of variations in the sun's output as a source of climate change, along with the usual other sources. What psychological degrees (2) I have point to the real motivation behind the nonscientific hysteria over the subject-- paranoia. Anthropogenic global warming may be true, though the evidence suggests otherwise. There is no way of determining this until the actual events predicted by the computer models come true, which so far has not happened. On the contrary, the predicted increase in hurricanes and temperature rise made by anthropogenic global warming proponents for the last ten years hasn't happened . So far, the argument for anthropogenic global warming is proved wrong. Only time will give us the truth.
Dave Mathews II| 3.23.09 @ 8:46PM
Hello Dave Mathews
*'Conservatives aren't well known for their respect for the environment nor for their opposition to pollution ... as demonstrated a thousand times over by the words of conservatives. '
You are speaking in a foolish manner. You are showing your lack of education.
*'Those who equate pollution and environmental destruction with freedom are choosing extinction, not freedom.'
Extinction is inevitable. Your desire to survive is foolish.
David Mathews | 3.23.09 @ 8:49PM
Hello stmicchrick,
* "You are maintaining a tradition of sky-is-falling schemes to consolidate power to leftist government. "
More talk radio nonsense ... seems all of the intelligence has drained from the Republican party.
* "What do you make of the recently overlooked California-sized piece of sea ice that was discovered this month? "
I observe that the climate scientists are real scientists and hence they can acknwoledge and correct their errors ... this is very different from the denialist fundamentalists.
* "Have you noticed that when geologists get involved (they evaluate evidence of ancient climates); you lose. "
Geologists are not climatologists. Scientists are aware of the boundaries of their expertise ... too bad conservatives aren't educated enough to recognize these boundaries.
David Mathews | 3.23.09 @ 8:51PM
Hello Freki,
* "How do you masturbate and type at the same time? "
Conservatives are such sore losers ... sad little conservative, sad little mind, sad little uneducated scientifically illiterate conservative loser.
Hey ... give Rush Limbaugh some oxycontin. I hear that he's using drugs to escape from his pronounced homosexual tendencies. Conservatives are in hell all the time while they remain in the closet.
David Mathews | 3.23.09 @ 8:55PM
Hello Big Leo,
* "The anthropogenic global warming argument is framed by the ignorant in terms of science vs. ignorance. In truth, it is between scientists with differing ways of interpreting often contradictory data."
Creationists speak in a similar manner.
* " It is difficult for people who are not climatologists to make a real informed decision."
Amen to that ... so conservatives listen to college dropouts such as Rush Limbaugh!
* "What scientific training I have is in astronomy, which prejudices me in favor of variations in the sun's output as a source of climate change, along with the usual other sources."
Well, this just proves that astronomers aren't climatologists.
* "What psychological degrees (2) I have point to the real motivation behind the nonscientific hysteria over the subject-- paranoia."
Like hell you have a psychology degree. I suppose that you have a Ph.D. from the Dittohead Academy of Extremist Ignorance.
* "Anthropogenic global warming may be true, though the evidence suggests otherwise. There is no way of determining this until the actual events predicted by the computer models come true, which so far has not happened."
Pure conservative BS and nothing else.
* "On the contrary, the predicted increase in hurricanes and temperature rise made by anthropogenic global warming proponents for the last ten years hasn't happened . So far, the argument for anthropogenic global warming is proved wrong. Only time will give us the truth."
Blah blah blah ... more conservative nonsense.
Hey conservatives ... got education?
Freki| 3.23.09 @ 8:58PM
Hey Daveo
Ha ha ha ha snort. I need to know buddy. How do you do it? Two hands? One and a quick lefty? It's very impressive.
Big Leo| 3.23.09 @ 9:00PM
Thanks for repeating my carefully thought out, rational arguments for my position. They nicely counterpoint your personal attacks and hysteria. Makes me look even smarter by contrast.
David Mathews | 3.23.09 @ 9:08PM
Hello Freki,
* "Ha ha ha ha snort. I need to know buddy. How do you do it? Two hands? One and a quick lefty? It's very impressive. "
You are displaying the elementary school mentality of the uneducated, ignorant trailer trash conservative who is engaged in a fantasy love affair with Sarah Palin.
David Mathews | 3.23.09 @ 9:10PM
Hello Big Leo,
* "Makes me look even smarter by contrast. "
You are a desperate person seeking some sort of compliment for nothing. You display none of the education that you have claimed and you argue like a dittohead.
Where are the educated conservatives ... ?
Freki| 3.23.09 @ 9:11PM
Hey Daveo;
Oh yes she is so hot. How do you keep from gluing your keys together when you google her?
David Mathews | 3.23.09 @ 9:18PM
Hello Freki,
* "Oh yes she is so hot. How do you keep from gluing your keys together when you google her? "
This is a problem unique among conservatives, Freki. Evidently it is a problem which you have experienced.
As a representative of uneducated trailer trash conservativism, I am quite certain that you've spent a lot of time thinking about Sarah Palin. You've enjoyed every minute of it, too ... that's why you conservatives voted for her, too.
stmichrick| 3.23.09 @ 9:21PM
Mr GlobalMathews;
Your ignorance is on display tonight. Geology is where climatologists go to when they want to understand ancient climate conditions as evidenced in the rock record.
Global Warmists ignore this data.
Give up.
David Mathews | 3.23.09 @ 9:26PM
Hello stmichrick,
* "Geology is where climatologists go to when they want to understand ancient climate conditions as evidenced in the rock record. "
Yes, that is true, but geologists are not climatologists. These are two separate and distinct scientific disciplines.
* "Global Warmists ignore this data. "
Ignorant blather of the scientifically illiterate. Climatologists are well aware of the 4.5 billion year history of this planet and the radical changes which the Earth has experienced throughout this time.
This is one reason why Global Warming terrifies them so much ... they are well aware that throughout much of Earth's history the climate changed in radical manners inconsistent with the survival of civilization or our species.
Freki| 3.23.09 @ 9:27PM
Hey Daveo;
Do you fantasize a lot? Have you infected your computer from the little lolita websites? Have you ever touched another human being?
Big Leo| 3.23.09 @ 9:29PM
Have you noticed how the figure of Rush Limbaugh seems to haunt the posts of DM? He can't seem to get through two sentences without some reference to him. This is called projection, the attribution of one's own shortcomings and pathologies on another person. Sometimes this is produced by a desperate desire to be like the person so maligned, so possibly DM's obsession is caused by envy of the rotund entertainer.
Sorry, DM. I don't even listen to Rush Limbaugh. And your remark about lack of education is even more farfetched. You never post any actual facts, just personal attacks and insults. This is truly the venue of the uneducated mind. Another case of projection, perhaps?
Freki| 3.23.09 @ 9:30PM
Heyoo Daveo;
I mean, other than those spanking your mommy gave you.
They were good though, weren't they?
Freki| 3.23.09 @ 9:30PM
Heyoo Daveo;
I mean, other than those spankings your mommy gave you.
They were good though, weren't they?
stmichrick| 3.23.09 @ 9:32PM
Mr GlobalMathews, is Dr. Roy Spencer, former climatologist with NASA, now at the Univ of Alabama, scientifically illiterate?
Oh.
We can do this all night, fool.
David Mathews | 3.23.09 @ 9:32PM
Hello Freki,
I think that you are little bit too desperately begging for attention. Get back to your trailer and your talk radio ... they need you!
Freki| 3.23.09 @ 9:35PM
Hey Daveo;
I desperately need you to tell me how you do it.
David Mathews | 3.23.09 @ 9:35PM
Hello Big Leo,
* "You never post any actual facts, just personal attacks and insults. This is truly the venue of the uneducated mind. Another case of projection, perhaps? "
Science speaks for itself, Big Leo. You are on the wrong side of history ... with Sarah Palin, George W. Bush and Rush Limbaugh ... and Freaky Freki.
You've lost the argument already and you are now just as silly-desperate as the creationists.
Freki| 3.23.09 @ 9:35PM
Hey Daveo;
Is it will power? Viagra? Lotion?
stmichrick| 3.23.09 @ 9:36PM
Mr GlobalMathews, all the evidence you rely on comes from easily manipulated computer models...you realize that, right?
Oh, I forgot. It's not about evidence. It's about believing our greedy unfair capitalist society MUST be damaging the earth.
Right.
David Mathews | 3.23.09 @ 9:37PM
Hello stmichrick.
* "Mr GlobalMathews, is Dr. Roy Spencer, former climatologist with NASA, now at the Univ of Alabama, scientifically illiterate? "
Roy Spencer is a Christian fundamentalist and a creationist:
http://scienceblogs.com/deltoid/2005/08/tcs5.php
Oh, well ... just another kook for the conservative kookery.
David Mathews | 3.23.09 @ 9:39PM
Hello stmichrick,
* "Mr GlobalMathews, all the evidence you rely on comes from easily manipulated computer models...you realize that, right? "
Wrong. This is pure scientifically illiterate babble and nothing else.
* "Oh, I forgot. It's not about evidence. It's about believing our greedy unfair capitalist society MUST be damaging the earth. "
That's not a belief ... it is a readily observed fact. Americans are morbidly obese and stressed to death and drugged out of their minds for a reason ... our civilization isn't healthy.
stmichrick| 3.23.09 @ 9:39PM
Mr GlobalMathews; what are we to believe your connection to science is...High School Biology, Algore's slideshow, what?
stmichrick| 3.23.09 @ 9:41PM
Mr GlobalMathews;
Please explain the link between obesity and climate change.
Now you ARE becoming entertaining.
Freki| 3.23.09 @ 9:41PM
Hey Daveo;
So tell me, what's it like to be in love with yourself?
Big Leo| 3.23.09 @ 9:43PM
Say what you will about DM. He may not be able to think, but the boy sure can type.
Seriously, Dave. Get help. You are an angry, obsessive person who obviously needs a healthier outlet for your hostility.
stmichrick| 3.23.09 @ 9:44PM
Mr GlobalMathews;
So Roy Spencer got his Phd from Liberty University?
I didn't know that. ;-]
Freki| 3.23.09 @ 9:44PM
Hey Daveo;
Your kinda my hero, a perfect self obsessed onanistic agoraphobic.
Big Leo| 3.23.09 @ 9:47PM
Fire and Ice
Some say the world will end in fire,
Some say in ice.
From what I've tasted of desire
I hold with those who favor fire.
But if it had to perish twice,
I think I know enough of hate
To say that for destruction ice
Is also great
And would suffice.
Robert Frost
David Mathews | 3.23.09 @ 9:49PM
Hello stmichrick,
* "Mr GlobalMathews; what are we to believe your connection to science is...High School Biology, Algore's slideshow, what? "
I am not speaking on my own authority ... the science speaks for itself. If you are too uneducated to see the difference that might explain why you are a conservative.
* "Please explain the link between obesity and climate change. "
I was merely observing how our civilization is unhealthy. Unhealthy to its citizens and equally unhealthy to the planet.
* "So Roy Spencer got his Phd from Liberty University? "
Roy Spencer is a creationist. Whre he got his degree is irrelevant. He is a Christian fundamentalist nutjob, too.
David Mathews | 3.23.09 @ 9:51PM
Hello Big Leo,
* "You are an angry, obsessive person who obviously needs a healthier outlet for your hostility. "
You conservatives need a science education and you need to spend less time listening to Fox News - Talk Radio.
Freki| 3.23.09 @ 9:52PM
Hey Daveo;
Hey big guy, what gives? Not talking to me anymore?
Or is that hot thing in your hand too much for you?
stmichrick| 3.23.09 @ 9:52PM
Mr GlobalMathews,
How about, Dr John Theon, retired senior atmospheric scientist at NASA?
I see; also a snake-handling creationist?
stmichrick| 3.23.09 @ 9:55PM
Mr GlobalMathews; how about Presidnt Vaclav Havel of Czechoslavakia?
I remember that you lefties thought he was pretty neat during the Clinton years
stmichrick| 3.23.09 @ 9:55PM
Mr GlobalMathews; how about Presidnt Vaclav Havel of Czechoslavakia?
I remember that you lefties thought he was pretty neat during the Clinton years
Freki| 3.23.09 @ 9:57PM
Hey Daveo;
Come on guy, talk back. It's all you do anyway.
Big Leo| 3.23.09 @ 9:58PM
When I taught college back in the seventies, I was as I am now, a mainline protestant church member and attender. The people I knew in college who went to church or synagogue were the mathematicians and scientists, not the humanities majors. My daughter, who has a Ph.D in math says the same thing is true today. You, on the other hand, show no signs whatsoever of a science education, and so far have been honest (or evasive) enough not to claim one. Sorry, Dave. You're just not convincing as a defender of science because you show no signs of an education in anything involving logic, mathematics, or science. It's just not there.
Freki| 3.23.09 @ 9:59PM
Hey Daveo;
Come on, it's safe. Not like High School, where you got shit kicked everyday. Come on, just a little come back. Please.
stmichrick| 3.23.09 @ 9:59PM
Mr GlobalMathews
I see that you sidestepped my question about a personal connection to science; aren't you getting the feeling maybe that Algore has led you down a deadend street?
Your take on what 'science' says is based on faith in your leftist icons...maybe just a little?
Freki| 3.23.09 @ 10:04PM
Hey Daveo;
What's the matter? Did I upset you? Or did mommy make you go to bed? Ohhh, bed with mommy, bet you like that.
Big Leo| 3.23.09 @ 10:07PM
When I went to college back in the sixties, the meteorological department (which included climatology) was usually stuck in a back office near the janitorial supply room. I know, because the Astronomy department was right next door. Now, climatology is glamorous. The climate nerds get big grants and are interviewed on television about the doom approaching us all. No wonder they believe in global warming-- they don't want to be stuck back in an office next to the Astronomy department.
Stammon| 3.23.09 @ 10:08PM
That was impressive. Thanks Freki. Good job.
David Mathews | 3.23.09 @ 10:13PM
Hello stmichrick,
* "How about, Dr John Theon, retired senior atmospheric scientist at NASA? "
John Theon is a nobody.
* "Mr GlobalMathews; how about Presidnt Vaclav Havel of Czechoslavakia? "
Not a climatologist.
* "I see that you sidestepped my question about a personal connection to science; aren't you getting the feeling maybe that Algore has led you down a deadend street? "
Scientifically illiterate babble.
* "Your take on what 'science' says is based on faith in your leftist icons...maybe just a little? "
More scientifically illiterate babble.
David Mathews | 3.23.09 @ 10:14PM
Hello Big Leo,
* "When I went to college back in the sixties, the meteorological department (which included climatology) was usually stuck in a back office near the janitorial supply room. I know, because the Astronomy department was right next door. Now, climatology is glamorous. The climate nerds get big grants and are interviewed on television about the doom approaching us all. No wonder they believe in global warming-- they don't want to be stuck back in an office next to the Astronomy department. "
Blah blah blah ... you are showing both your age and your ignorance, big leo.
David Mathews | 3.23.09 @ 10:16PM
Hello stammon,
* "That was impressive. Thanks Freki. Good job. "
Stammon's another example of the trailer trash conservativism which represents the death of the Republican party.
Republicans aren't going to win many elections gaining the trailer park vote, ya know ...
Freki| 3.23.09 @ 10:16PM
Hi Stammon;
Thank you, but now Daveo won't talk to me.
I still want to know how he does it.
Freki| 3.23.09 @ 10:17PM
Hey Daveo;
Oh bliss, oh rapture.
How do you do it?
Big Leo| 3.23.09 @ 10:18PM
I prefer to think I'm showing my experience rather than my age. You are certainly showing your immaturity. Humor is pretty much lost on you, too.
Give it up, Dave. Everyone's laughing at you and you're not impressing anyone with any sign of intelligence.
David Mathews | 3.23.09 @ 10:21PM
Hello Trailr Trash Freki,
You are a little too desperate for attention ... I sense that you are also a homosexual, too.
Freki| 3.23.09 @ 10:22PM
Hey Daveo;
I assure you I am not laughing at you.
It's pure worship. Give me your divine secret.
How do you do it?
David Mathews | 3.23.09 @ 10:23PM
Hello Big Leo,
* " prefer to think I'm showing my experience rather than my age. You are certainly showing your immaturity. Humor is pretty much lost on you, too. "
You are every bit as unintelligent as you seem, Big Leo. As far as being a humorist ... keep your day job.
* "Give it up, Dave. Everyone's laughing at you and you're not impressing anyone with any sign of intelligence. "
No, Big Leo, only the fools are laughing ... remember, your side lost!
Freki| 3.23.09 @ 10:23PM
Hey daveo;
Oh bliss.
Do you need me to be gay?
stmichrick| 3.23.09 @ 10:24PM
Dr Theon is a PhD in Nobody. Somehow became James Hansen's supervisor though. Hmmmm.
You're running out of ammo MrGlobalMathews. Your responses seem more defensive and desperate.
You seem to believe all climatologists agree. How will you deal with all (I have a list) the climatologists who are Deniers? Shall we send them to camps for re-education?
I can tell.
David Mathews | 3.23.09 @ 10:26PM
Hello stmichrick,
* "Dr Theon is a PhD in Nobody. Somehow became James Hansen's supervisor though. Hmmmm. "
Supervisor is a management position ... it doesn't mean anything at all. He is also a doddering old man.
* "You seem to believe all climatologists agree. How will you deal with all (I have a list) the climatologists who are Deniers? Shall we send them to camps for re-education? "
Scientifically illiterate babble ...
Freki| 3.23.09 @ 10:28PM
Hey Daveo;
Sigh, it's been fun Daveo. But I have to go to work in the morning. I'll miss you though.
Look up Onanistic in your dictionary, and get a life and a real girlfriend. I'll talk to you later.
stmichrick| 3.23.09 @ 10:31PM
You're down to one answer fits all.
"scientifically illiterate babble"
I win.
Good night Mr GlobalMathews.
David Mathews | 3.23.09 @ 10:31PM
Hello Freki,
Pity your poor miserable pitiful small minded conservative soul ...
David Mathews | 3.23.09 @ 10:33PM
Hello Stmichrick,
When you speak scientifically illiterate babble that is exactly the answer which you will receive.
Freki demonstrates that the Republican party's got a trailer park mentality, too.
Somehow I don't imagine that trailer trash scientific illiteracy will serve to win the Republican party many elections in the 21st century.
Oh well, you people better get used to whining because you are going to remain losers ...
Rush Limbaugh| 3.23.09 @ 10:34PM
I confess! I knew it would come out eventually. Dave Mathews is my evil twin. He escaped from the asylum and has been running amok ever since.
Please, help the family catch him and return him to where he can get the help he needs.
Freki| 3.23.09 @ 10:35PM
A real girlfriend Daveo. One you can touch and talk to. When they let you out, go and find her.
Freki| 3.23.09 @ 10:37PM
And sex, Daveo. you can have sex with a real girl. Not just yourself. You should try it.
Night all. It's been fun.
Stammon| 3.23.09 @ 10:38PM
Night Freki.
David Mathews | 3.23.09 @ 10:42PM
Hello Trailer Trash Freki,
I thought you were going to bed but it seems like you have nothing better to do ...
Poor little freaky freki ... he's got to pay off his trailer and keep his trailer trash happy!
Stammon| 3.23.09 @ 10:45PM
Actually asshole I think she is a woman. She shoved your ass into the ground.
David Mathews | 3.23.09 @ 10:49PM
Hello Trailer Trash Stammon,
* "Actually asshole I think she is a woman. She shoved your ass into the ground. "
Trailer Trash Freki and Trailer Trash Stammon represent the miserable condition of the Republican party and the death of conservativism.
You people have lost everything and you are going to lose even more in the years ahead. You people better get used to poverty, too, because soon enough you won't have wealth, you own't have a future and you won't even have a glimmer of hope that things will get better.
Conservatives are pitiful, miserable creatures who know that their day has past. You can only live in the 19th century for so long ...
David Mathews | 3.23.09 @ 11:03PM
Hello Tired of David Mathews,
I have served a real purpose ... I revealed that conservatives really are a bunch of sex-obsessed trailer trash uneducated idiots who otherwise spend their time listening to talk radio and are about as ignorant about science as they are ignorant of everything else.
Trailer Trash Conservativism ... is the only form of conservativism that is left!
Bill Hussein O'Stalin| 3.24.09 @ 7:31AM
I lived in a trailer for decades, as a Communist I eschew the one home, chicken in every pot lifestyle that is deemed worthy of success. I suppose that these days you could throw a cell phone and a fast high mileage care in there too.
In the final analysis all these political movements that want to expand government, whether it is due to out of control environmentalism or sympathy, which is the government welfare program reduced to a concept, is all about elitism and the desire for power to control others.
You can see it in the posters who need to have the last word, to the person who cuts you off in traffic or the person who rushes ahead of you to get to the check out line. Elitism is everywhere.
The environmentalists really have no desire to reduce energy usage, they merely want to tax it, because they gives them more power over the economy and you.
They're just another version of Bolsheviks, pretending to be something else. In the meantime I enjoy my remote trailer location.
frankg| 3.24.09 @ 8:47AM
I think these trolls are paid by American Spectator. Its all to churn hits, you see. And the trolls replies make no sense, or ignore counters to their outrageous claims.
Oops, I almost forgot.
boooooooooosh...