Live from UC Berkeley, the Coming Age of Alternate Energy, made
possible by many a grant from the Stimulus Package.
(Page 2 of 2)
The phrase that kept echoing through my mind all day was a
comment made recently by Jesse Ausubel, director of the Center
for the Human Environment at Rockefeller University: "Alternate
energy is going to be the next subprime mortgage meltdown." Four
years from now we're going to be looking at a landscape littered
with useless 50-story windmills and wondering why anybody ever
thought they were worth building.
I tried this on a few venture capitalists, expecting a harsh
response, and got a surprising answer. "You know, you're right,"
they all said. "It's already happening with gasohol. Look at
those refineries closing in the Midwest. It'll probably happen
here as well. As soon as the government removes those subsidies,
the whole industry will collapse." There's a book waiting to be
written, The Great Solar-and-Wind Meltdown of 2012.
The other thing I discovered is that there's a whole nuclear
underground -- people who are convinced nuclear is the answer but
are afraid to say it in public. At one point I sat down with a
woman in her 50s who turned out to be a physicist. We nattered on
cheerfully about alternate energy for a while until she finally
asked me what I do. "I just wrote a book about nuclear power," I
said. She immediately turned stone cold sober. "You know I was in
nuclear in the 1980s. We thought we had the whole future ahead of
us. Then everything fell apart. I think it's a tragedy this
country abandoned nuclear. It would have given us all the clean
energy we need."
Two other quiet enthusiasts were a pair of Haas Business School
students, one from Spain, the other from Argentina. "I took a
nuclear science course in Spain," said the young woman, "and the
professor showed us there's nothing to be afraid of. I think it's
ridiculous America isn't going ahead with nuclear power. Spain is
even worse. They're trying to close reactors down. There's
nothing else that's going to provide us with enough energy."
The high point of the afternoon came with the keynote speech by
John Hofmeister, former president of Shell Oil and now head of
some Washington NGO called Citizens for Affordable Energy.
Hofmeister gave one of those speeches that makes you wonder why
people ever think businessmen support the free market. "There is
no free market in energy!" he thundered. "Look at OPEC! Look at
the way the government won't let us drill offshore. How can you
call that a free market?"
So instead of eliminating subsidies and mandates, of course, he
wants to do away with markets altogether and let the government
run the energy economy. "We need a Federal Energy Resources Board
modeled on the Federal Reserve Board," he concluded. "Financial
markets used to go through periodic manias and crashes in the
19th century but in 1913 and since then the peaks and valleys
have smoothed out."
Hofmeister must not have been reading the papers since last
August but fortunately there was an economist on hand to
re-introduce a little reality. "The Federal Reserve is able to
adjust the money supply because it effectively owns the currency
of the United States," said Severin Borenstein, professor of
economics at Haas, who served as conference gadfly. "You're not,
I hope, suggesting we turn over ownership of all energy resources
to the federal government."
I won't elaborate on Hofmeister's answer except to say that he
obviously envisions himself as Chairman of the Federal Energy
Resources Board.
The nuclear panel was a quiet little affair held in a small
upstairs room with about 30 people in attendance. My fellow
panelists, Scott Peterson, of the Nuclear Energy Institute,
Cheryl Boggess, of Westinghouse, and John Conway, site vice
president of Southern California Edison's Diablo Canyon, all
spoke in favor. The audience, pretty much self-selected, mostly
nodded their heads in agreement. (All the Greens were downstairs
learning about financing renewables and the future of the U.S.
auto industry.)
Boggess took exception when I said the U.S. nuclear industry was
pretty much dead. (Westinghouse was bought by Toshiba in 2006.)
"We're hiring right now!" she said. A reporter from the
Contra Costa Times asked the obligatory question, "Won't
nuclear power lead to the proliferation of nuclear weapons?" I
pointed out that the world is going ahead with nuclear without us
and the idea that we still control the technology is delusional.
"Does anybody know who's building the reactor for Venezuela's
Hugo Chavez?" I asked. Nobody did. (The answer is "Russia.")
Finally somebody got around to mentioning "The Stimulus." "Since
what little money there was for nuclear was eventually cut out of
the Stimulus Package," came the question, "isn't that bad news
for the nuclear industry?"
Peterson of NEI responded. "Frankly, we don't need any money from
The Stimulus. It would have been nice to have it but we don't
need it."
"We don't even need the federal loan guarantees," chimed in
Conway, of Southern California Edison. "There are 34 reactors
under construction around the world. Nuclear is moving ahead so
rapidly and reactors in this country are making so much money --
about $2 million a day -- all we need is for the federal
government to grant us some licenses and let us go ahead and
build. We don't need any government money."
It was nice to know in the Land of the Stimulus that somebody was
still talking about economic value.
Kinda wordy. Might have been summed up by exchanging the word
"stimulated" with "simulated," 'ay?
whiterb| 3.3.09 @ 9:28AM
Thanks for attending the meeting. I think you are doing important
reporting. Look forward to a book someday.
Billy| 3.3.09 @ 9:41AM
How many liberals does it take to plug in a solar panel? ONE AND
HIS NAME IS BARACK OBAMA!
Carner York| 3.3.09 @ 10:48AM
The key to Mr. Lord's article, to me, is that Ghandi made sure to
do everything in front of he camera. The tea party concept is a
great beginning and it needs to be built upon. Appeal to American
patriotism and independence. Make Sam Adams the focal point. Sam
Adams T shirts. Get Sam Adams brewery to be a lead sponsor
(they'd make a bundle). All things revolutionary in the truest
American sense. Next, get deep pocket conservatives to make
conservative movies to bolster the appeal to the new American
independence. Image sells. Ghandi knew that and so did Reagan. We
on the right know that our logic is superior to the left. We just
need to be more creative than them in advancing it.
What happened to true innovation? The artificiality of this whole
'alt' energy industry is mind boggling. It WILL be the next
financial meltdown unless some sanity is injected.
I couldn't help myself in writing a little satire on the
Liberal-mania to push unworkable eco-solutions on us:
"Hi, My Name is Lib Utopian, and I’m here to Help…"
http://pracphilosblog.wordpress.com/2009/02/27/hi-my-name-is-lib-utopian/
ccc| 3.3.09 @ 12:27PM
I'm all for getting rid of the subsidies for alternative energy,
but I'd sure like to see the subsidies for conventional power
scrapped as well. And then there is figureing in the real costs.
That whole war in Iraq should have been paid by gas taxes.
More pay as you go is the only way to get some accountablitiy in
the system.
frost| 3.3.09 @ 12:44PM
Nah, ccc -- that was ANOTHER one of Dubya's dumb moves. Shouls've
insisted on either getting oil in return for their freedom, or
having them foot-the-bill with their income from oil.
So much for the supercilious "no war for oil" argument, 'ay?
kent beuchert| 3.3.09 @ 12:46PM
Solar isn't available for peak demand unless it can be stored and
used during early evening - THAT is the time of peak demand, not
in the middle of the day when the sun is highest. And even in
deserts the sun doesn't shine 30 days a year - thus solar is not
even reliable for those hours. In the Sunshine state of Florida,
the sun doesn't shine anywhere near as much as in the desert
Southwest, the spot where solar will be the cheapest it can be.
Then there's the issue of cost. California already rapes its
citizens for sales taxes, income taxes and high electricitity
rates (over 15 cents per kilowatthour). Do you think California
will ever figure out that nuclear can produce power 24/7/365 at a
cost a fraction of that of solar, and have power plants that
don't require thousands of square miles and last for 60 years,
not 20?
Marc Jeric| 3.3.09 @ 2:01PM
Solar panels on the roof for hot water? That kind of installation
takes steel, copper, glass, carbon black, electric water
reciculation pump, steel reservoir - which require enery to
produce. The solar energy will take 12 years to equal the energy
spent in the fabrication of such an istallation. Dust
accumulating on the panels cuts their efficiency drastically -
daily cleaning is required. The home owner had better climb up on
the roof every day to clean those panels - by water jets
probably; and then to dry them to prevent the build-up of
deposits. It would be more efficient to live in caves like the
Neanderthal man.
Dustoff| 3.3.09 @ 3:19PM
Marc
I had one of them solar heaters for my house. 1988.
OMG. All I did was fix, fix & fix it. The biggest problem was
the pump to move warm water to the roof to get hot. Hot water and
pump bearings do-not get along well. It leaked and leaked. Never
again.
Why Classical Mechanics limited
In this article, from the perspective of classical philosophy, I
explain why neither Newton's laws nor the laws of Coulomb’s
interaction of charges work in quantum mechanics. Then, from the
same point of view, I explain the nature of the conflicting
definitions of micro particles...
sites.google.com/site/socialcapital1/Home
Geoff| 3.6.09 @ 1:24AM
Thanks for the article, I would have loved to have heard more of
the conversations. Anyway... I have Just one question, why are
there so many ignorant smart people????? I just can't believe
alll the bad decisions that are made and all the people fighting
for the obviously wrong side of an issue. We vote for politicians
we don't know anything about, we adopt legislation we know
nothing about. We want cheap clean energy but we keep chasing
energy that is anything but cheap, clean maybe until you look
closer. We hire managers who can do processes but can't manage
people and it is the people that are doing the processes. Why is
it that everything seems so backwards.....
frost| 3.3.09 @ 6:28AM
Kinda wordy. Might have been summed up by exchanging the word "stimulated" with "simulated," 'ay?
whiterb| 3.3.09 @ 9:28AM
Thanks for attending the meeting. I think you are doing important reporting. Look forward to a book someday.
Billy| 3.3.09 @ 9:41AM
How many liberals does it take to plug in a solar panel? ONE AND HIS NAME IS BARACK OBAMA!
Carner York| 3.3.09 @ 10:48AM
The key to Mr. Lord's article, to me, is that Ghandi made sure to do everything in front of he camera. The tea party concept is a great beginning and it needs to be built upon. Appeal to American patriotism and independence. Make Sam Adams the focal point. Sam Adams T shirts. Get Sam Adams brewery to be a lead sponsor (they'd make a bundle). All things revolutionary in the truest American sense. Next, get deep pocket conservatives to make conservative movies to bolster the appeal to the new American independence. Image sells. Ghandi knew that and so did Reagan. We on the right know that our logic is superior to the left. We just need to be more creative than them in advancing it.
Philosopher| 3.3.09 @ 10:52AM
What happened to true innovation? The artificiality of this whole 'alt' energy industry is mind boggling. It WILL be the next financial meltdown unless some sanity is injected.
I couldn't help myself in writing a little satire on the Liberal-mania to push unworkable eco-solutions on us:
"Hi, My Name is Lib Utopian, and I’m here to Help…"
http://pracphilosblog.wordpress.com/2009/02/27/hi-my-name-is-lib-utopian/
ccc| 3.3.09 @ 12:27PM
I'm all for getting rid of the subsidies for alternative energy, but I'd sure like to see the subsidies for conventional power scrapped as well. And then there is figureing in the real costs. That whole war in Iraq should have been paid by gas taxes.
More pay as you go is the only way to get some accountablitiy in the system.
frost| 3.3.09 @ 12:44PM
Nah, ccc -- that was ANOTHER one of Dubya's dumb moves. Shouls've insisted on either getting oil in return for their freedom, or having them foot-the-bill with their income from oil.
So much for the supercilious "no war for oil" argument, 'ay?
kent beuchert| 3.3.09 @ 12:46PM
Solar isn't available for peak demand unless it can be stored and used during early evening - THAT is the time of peak demand, not in the middle of the day when the sun is highest. And even in deserts the sun doesn't shine 30 days a year - thus solar is not even reliable for those hours. In the Sunshine state of Florida, the sun doesn't shine anywhere near as much as in the desert Southwest, the spot where solar will be the cheapest it can be. Then there's the issue of cost. California already rapes its citizens for sales taxes, income taxes and high electricitity rates (over 15 cents per kilowatthour). Do you think California will ever figure out that nuclear can produce power 24/7/365 at a cost a fraction of that of solar, and have power plants that don't require thousands of square miles and last for 60 years, not 20?
Marc Jeric| 3.3.09 @ 2:01PM
Solar panels on the roof for hot water? That kind of installation takes steel, copper, glass, carbon black, electric water reciculation pump, steel reservoir - which require enery to produce. The solar energy will take 12 years to equal the energy spent in the fabrication of such an istallation. Dust accumulating on the panels cuts their efficiency drastically - daily cleaning is required. The home owner had better climb up on the roof every day to clean those panels - by water jets probably; and then to dry them to prevent the build-up of deposits. It would be more efficient to live in caves like the Neanderthal man.
Dustoff| 3.3.09 @ 3:19PM
Marc
I had one of them solar heaters for my house. 1988.
OMG. All I did was fix, fix & fix it. The biggest problem was the pump to move warm water to the roof to get hot. Hot water and pump bearings do-not get along well. It leaked and leaked. Never again.
Ilya Stavinsky| 3.3.09 @ 3:45PM
Why Classical Mechanics limited
In this article, from the perspective of classical philosophy, I explain why neither Newton's laws nor the laws of Coulomb’s interaction of charges work in quantum mechanics. Then, from the same point of view, I explain the nature of the conflicting definitions of micro particles...
sites.google.com/site/socialcapital1/Home
Geoff| 3.6.09 @ 1:24AM
Thanks for the article, I would have loved to have heard more of the conversations. Anyway... I have Just one question, why are there so many ignorant smart people????? I just can't believe alll the bad decisions that are made and all the people fighting for the obviously wrong side of an issue. We vote for politicians we don't know anything about, we adopt legislation we know nothing about. We want cheap clean energy but we keep chasing energy that is anything but cheap, clean maybe until you look closer. We hire managers who can do processes but can't manage people and it is the people that are doing the processes. Why is it that everything seems so backwards.....
hgfhgf| 12.2.09 @ 1:38AM
H264 Converter,
H264 Converter for Mac