The American Spectator

Don L| 1.27.09 @ 7:15AM

I'll wager that the radical terroristrs have a highe3r approvall rating than Blagovich. Why do I feel that way? Because, alfter watching their zombie like voting in this last election for a man who supports infanticide aggressively, had never run so much as a lemonade stand, and spent his life associaating with the most nefarious creatures of any serious presidential candidate ever. You know they'd also love a terrorist quicker than someone who would embarass the messiah and Uncle Teddy.

Alan Brooks| 1.27.09 @ 8:24AM

welcome to 21st century brave new world.

Dropping By| 1.27.09 @ 8:31AM

No, no, no. Look, Pres. Obama is making a mistake by coddling terrorists, I completely agree with you, but Blago is not being denied due process. To compare his Senate trial to a lynching is absurd. Blago has made political mistakes -- possibly criminal, but that's irrelevant. The Senate is considering a political punishment -- to deny him of his office. A better analogy would be that a board of directors (the Illinois Senate) is considering firing the CEO (Blago). The real peril Blago faces is from an indictment by prosecutors -- that is where he might lose his freedom and he will, of course, be offered his full range of Constitutional defenses in that instance. Impeachment is a political punishment for a political transgression, and the Illinois Senate is comporting itself just fine as it goes about its important work.

Alan Brooks| 1.27.09 @ 8:49AM

what i get from it is the enemy gets us to bend over backward to be fair so we are not seen as being like them, but we go after Blago full steam so as to err on the side of being anti political-corruption.

Tim| 1.27.09 @ 9:50AM

Obviousely the Gitmo folks will get better treatment than "Blago".

Blago can really politically hurt Obama now, so he must be deamed a "Nutcase" and made to look like he is a raving Loone so Obama and his ilk can't be dragged down with him.

But with the current "Jonestown" atmosphere why even worry about little old Blago unless of course they fear him like Rev Jones feared congressman Ryan.

Innocent prove me guilty| 1.27.09 @ 9:59AM

Under the NWO, every one is a TERRORIST, if they are brown and come from the Middle East.

There was a time when it was lets get the Jews, now things have changed lets get the Moslems instead.

Before that lets accuse them of being WITCHES and burn them at the stake.
Then there was a time when it was lets get the Catholics.

Then there was a time lets LYNCH the Blacks, they too never got a trial.

People what a wonderfull bunch we are, and still lack the ability of learning from past experiences.

And they all claim one religion or another, and they worship GOD, and lack everything that is Godly.

The Red Indians streched out a hand of friendship, and they murdered them. A people who are full of EVIL, claim to be Godly, in their false claims they have polluted every river every stream, and every mind with their sickness of murder, and complain about abortions. All of this while they mass murder millions because they are BLACK or BROWN.
They level flase accusations against one another based on colour and race and religion.

Alan Brooks| 1.27.09 @ 10:04AM

alrighty Daphne,
we give up. we'll appoint YOU president for life.

Tim| 1.27.09 @ 11:05AM

Innocent prove me guilty,

The majority of aborted kids are black or other shades of non white colors. So who is being racist to who?

The last time I checked, a group of crazed muslims drove airplanes into the twin towers
on their way to having an orgy with seven beautiful virgins in some uthopian afterlife .

Muslims and Christians have been killing each other for centuries......but in this recent intense battle which began 60 or so years ago, the small fanatical band of muslim extremists are the ones who have blown people up without trial or mercy
and the West has had to defend itself.

How can you blame the Jews when it's young muslim kids that have walked into cafes in Tel Aviv and blown themselves up taking innocent Jewish Children with them.

Where was the trial for those innocent Jews?

Bush's problem is he got bogged down in a ground war. Had he just bombed the hell out of the region for one year and one day/non stop in the same manner that Israel took care of Hamas....

Obama would still be in Chicago playing with Blago and not on Arab TV begging for their forgiveness for the USA's right to retaliate against a small segment of crazed and fringe muslims who have hijacked their Religion in the name of their new perverted Doctrine.

Jeremiah| 1.27.09 @ 11:08AM

Where do any of you people get the idea that Obama is "coddling" terrorists?

You need to start getting your information from somewhere other than Shepherd Smiths' daily report.

The facts are these:

G.B. is an internationally renown failure. Only 5% of people being held have been charged with any terrorist activity. HUNDREDS have been released after being held for years.

Many of these people were simply rounded up on the word of their rivals or enemies. The people were abused, maltreated, and sometimes tortured, and we have only the word of a few people in the government that it made any difference.

The military wants it closed; the state department wants it closed; our allies want it closed.

Rush Limbaugh and Dick Cheney and a few screwballs at the American Spectator want it open.

So why should anyone listen to you?

Because if we don't, you'll call us terrorist sympathizers?

Please.

Get used to it: as long as you engage in hyperbolic, overheated, unrestrained, and intemperate rhetoric, no one is going to listen to you anyway.

Get used to winter, folks. It's cold outside.

George| 1.27.09 @ 11:30AM

Just a quick thought: Obama's mansion in Chicago is currently vacant. He could rent it out to the heros so unfairly incarcerated in Cuba. In Chicago they would be neighbors of Tony Rezko, Bill Ayers and Bernadette Dorn. They'd feel right at home and Obama could earn some much needed cash.

Innocent prove me guilty| 1.27.09 @ 11:43AM

TIM.
The last time you looked a group of moslems brought down the twin towers, what brought down tower 7?.
Where is the evidence?. That is what you have been told, and me too, but I think a fair trial will produce the evidence.

You say Black kids are being aborted, if you were black and had to live in the sort of poverty, you would prefer to be aborted too.

The answer is contreceptives, condoms, its cheaper than an abortion.

Tim| 1.27.09 @ 11:44AM

Outstanding comment George!

As to our standing in the world....

The problem with Obama giving his first TV interview as President to an Arab network sends the wrong message to good old fashion Americans and one of weakness to the entire Arab world.

Obama's first TV act as president should have been to meet with the survivors and the families of 9-11.

He should have Assured them publically and while being covered live by MSNBC that as President, he, Obama, will never rest until all the rougue murderers of the victims of 9-11 are brought to justice.

Had he done that first, his Arab TV interview would have gone down a little better to us normal everyday hard working American patriots.

Ole Joe| 1.27.09 @ 11:48AM

Jeremiah is correct, it is winter and we brought this on ourselves. Or Republican politicians allowed the Democrats to set the rules and then played by them while the Democrats ignored the rules and had their friends the media run cover for them. Winter is here but it doesn’t mean that we conservative Republicans can’t build a damn big fire under this administration. And, the sooner the better.

GB was a fine President, he cut our taxes and he kept us safe after 9/11, an event that never would have happened if that horn dog of an ex-president had done his job. GB took us to war in Afghanistan to punish the protectors of Ben Laden and he took us to war in Iraq, with the support of every major Democrat, to prevent us from being attacked again. Seems to have worked pretty darn good, hasn’t it. He is unpopular because the Democrats backed by their party wing, the mainstream media, would rather sacrifice the good name of America and its president, than be out of political power. You liberal Democrats call it smart politics, I call it treason.

So in summary Jeremiah, I don’t like hearing traitors like you telling me its winter and I should get used to it. Remember, no season last forever and I prefer to think about spring being on the way. Now if our Republican leaders will just remember that.

Alan Brooks| 1.27.09 @ 12:12PM

the one poting the tinhat comments is daffy Daphne,
she is more screwball than Limbaugh, Cheney-- and Nixon-- combined. Thats what Jeremiah doesnt get, the moonbatters on the left are even crazier than the right.
2010-- 2020; what a decade it will be.

Alan Brooks| 1.27.09 @ 12:12PM

the one poting the tinhat comments is daffy Daphne,
she is more screwball than Limbaugh, Cheney-- and Nixon-- combined. Thats what Jeremiah doesnt get, the moonbatters on the left are even crazier than the right.
2010-- 2020; what a decade it will be.

Alan Brooks| 1.27.09 @ 12:18PM

this server must be screwball too. i did NOT press 'submit' twice. oh geez what a life.

Dustoff| 1.27.09 @ 12:26PM

The last time you looked a group of moslems brought down the twin towers, what brought down tower 7?.
Where is the evidence?. That is what you have been told, and me too, but I think a fair trial will produce the evidence.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++

O-my another truther. Go back to the Ron Paul gang.
What a fool.
let me guess, you think the moon landing was faked too.

S.L. Toddard| 1.27.09 @ 12:30PM

"Are we watching events unfold that actually have terrorists dedicated to the destruction of the United States -- foreign citizens -- getting more legal rights than an actual American citizen who happens also to be the sitting governor of his state"

What terrorists? What we have in Gitmo for the most part are *accused* terrorists, many of whom have, after years of being caged and tortured, been discovered to have been innocent of any crime. If Mr Lord visits our country some day, he will find that in America we do not punish the accused (I can't believe I have to explain this), we try them. In a court. We are a Republic, and one in which the government does NOT have the power to capture people from any street anywhere on earth and cage and torture them for the rest of their lives without due process, without giving the accused a chance to defend his or her innocence. We are not monsters, Mr Lord. We are a Republic, not a Stalinist regime or an absolute monarchy or whatever sort of government you were raised under (and apparently wish to see here). We live under the Rule of Law, and recognize habeas corpus as a right all people possess, as the very bedrock of Western jurisprudence.

Can you people believe this guy? This is a self-professed "conservative", upset that people accused of horrific things are being granted due process before being caged for life!

Dustoff| 1.27.09 @ 12:31PM

INNOCENT
You say Black kids are being aborted, if you were black and had to live in the sort of poverty, you would prefer to be aborted too.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++

If you had half a brain, you would know that many of these cities are run by Black mayors and ALL of them are dems!

Buy a clue.

Jeremiah| 1.27.09 @ 12:59PM

Ole Joe --

What right to you have to refer to me as a "traitor" you twit?

Jackass, I'd thrash you within an inch of your life if you came near me, and there's an end of it. I've nothing else to say to you.

Dai Alanye| 1.27.09 @ 1:27PM

It's unjust to call Jeremiah a traitor. Sure, he writes as a traitor would, but perhaps he's simply a lying Dem or RINO troll, having drunk too deeply of the Obama koolade.

Let's not be too quick to judge.

Tim| 1.27.09 @ 2:00PM

I thought we were in a war against an extreme fringe element of Muslims who the majority of muslims world wide don't even defend.

That said, if the civilized world has to defend themselves from these insane fanatics then it stands to reason that when you catch one of them you hold them.

Last time I checked, the folks at Gitmo are fed, they are allowed to drink clean water, they are allowed to sleep and walk around in the fresh air.

Oh yes...folks that are deamed the most dangerous were seriousely questioned (some may say tortured depending on one's point of view)in order to obtain secrets to when our enemies would strike next and where.

Hmmm. Ok, so what's the problem.

The way some on the far left have carried on, you would think that these folks being held at gitmo were being denied food and water and decapitated three at a time and stacked up in a pile like bowling pins.

But maybe that's what we should do to them.....maybe when the civilized world bans together and does onto to them what they do to us then maybe just maybe they will find it within their warped mind to sit down and dialogue like civilzed people.

That's why I absolutely love the way Israel deals with these fanatics.

S.L. Toddard| 1.27.09 @ 2:03PM

"It's unjust to call Jeremiah a traitor. Sure, he writes as a traitor would, but perhaps he's simply a lying Dem or RINO troll, having drunk too deeply of the Obama koolade"

I'm sorry, but what has Jeremiah said that can even be refuted, never mind considered "un-conservative"? Neoconservatives have strayed so far from conservatism that they view common sense itself as "treason". How bizarre.

S.L. Toddard| 1.27.09 @ 2:09PM

" I thought we were in a war against an extreme fringe element of Muslims who the majority of muslims world wide don't even defend."

That's weird. I don't recall congress declaring war.

"That said, if the civilized world has to defend themselves from these insane fanatics then it stands to reason that when you catch one of them you hold them."

Fanatacism is not a crime. If someone is to be encaged for the rest of their lives, the law (and common sense, and human decency) demands they be allowed to defend themselves against accusations, especially an accusation as grevious as "terrorism".

"Last time I checked, the folks at Gitmo are fed, they are allowed to drink clean water, they are allowed to sleep and walk around in the fresh air."

Oh - you must have checked before it opened. Check again.

"Oh yes...folks that are deamed the most dangerous were seriousely questioned (some may say tortured depending on one's point of view)in order to obtain secrets to when our enemies would strike next and where.

Hmmm. Ok, so what's the problem."

It's inhumane and illegal, and evidence obtained by torture is inadmissible in all but the worst sorts of kangaroo courts. And as most of those tortured have been convicted of nothing, they have tortured innocent people. I'm sure even you can understand what "the problem" is there.

"The way some on the far left have carried on, you would think that these folks being held at gitmo were being denied food and water and decapitated three at a time and stacked up in a pile like bowling pins."

Many have been tortured to death or to the point of insanity. Innocent people. They have been held in solitary confinement for years and subject to brutal treatment and are convicted of no crime. That is the antithesis of "justice", as least as it is concieved of in the West. Are you a Stalinist or something?

Marc Jeric| 1.27.09 @ 2:17PM

Human rights, especially those granted us by the Constitution, apply to human beings. The confusion about the detainees at Gitmo stems from the fact that those terrorists are definitely not human beings but rather beasts of prey or deadly viruses. They should accordingly be dealt with by ummediate extermination - no ACLU, no judges or juries, no "liberals". Such vermin, beasts of prey, or deadly viruses are not entitled to any such law protections.

S.L. Toddard| 1.27.09 @ 2:29PM

"Human rights, especially those granted us by the Constitution, apply to human beings. The confusion about the detainees at Gitmo stems from the fact that those terrorists are definitely not human beings but rather beasts of prey or deadly viruses."

There seems to be a rather persistent confusion as to the definition of "terrorist" here. Being confined to Gitmo does not make one a "terrorist". Innocent people - completely innocent of terrorism or anything like it - have been caged and tortured at Gitmo. That is the reason why, in America, we have things called "trials". We use these "trials" to determine whether a person is "guilty" - that means that they did something bad, like commit a terrorist act - or "innocent" - which means they did nothing wrong and therefore cannot justly be confined to a cage. Do you understand the words I am using? When you use the term "terrorist" to describe the people being caged at Gitmo you are, quite simply, *wrong*, and look rather silly. One must assume you use the term because either A) you are unfamiliar with what it means or B) you are unfamiliar with the history of Gitmo and the people we have detained there. Do you not feel a responsibility to acquaint yourself with the subject at all before blathering your uninformed opinions for all the world to read?

Because you should.

Tim| 1.27.09 @ 2:30PM

Here is what is inhuman:

Just a few examples:

A group of law abinding people sitting at an outdoor cafe sipping some water and being blown to bits by Islamic fanatics.

A newsman covering the conflict over seas has his head handed to his parents.

Thousands of workers minding their own business
and trying to due there daily job wake up on 9-12-2001 in the hereafter.

I can go on and on but it would be a waste of my time and energy.

The point being is that war is ugly period.

But I say if these fanatics want to keep on killing innocent people because of centuries old grievances then the sooner they are desposed of the better.

You can't use western style diplomacy and or code of conduct with a bunch of fanatical thugs.

This isn't a game of chess here.

If a few innocent people get detained in the mix that is sad but that's the way it goes in a war.

Congressional war declaration aside, we are in a war and if you don't get it I can't explain it to you.

Obviousely you try and avoid detaining the wrong people but when in doubt shoot first ask questions later.

It may sound brutal to you but its basic survival for millions of people.

Alan Brooks| 1.27.09 @ 2:48PM

America treats these prisoners better than other major powers.

Alan Brooks| 1.27.09 @ 2:52PM

...in China and Russia Gitmo-type prrisoners would be toast. meat pies.

S.L. Toddard| 1.27.09 @ 3:02PM

"You can't use western style diplomacy and or code of conduct with a bunch of fanatical thugs."

What about with innocent people who have committed no crime?

tyman| 1.27.09 @ 3:30PM

SLT what you don't understand and I'm probably wasting my time on you, but the constitution was set up for AMERICANS You honestly believe these guys that were found attacking our soldiers are innocent. War is hell, but we're the good guys, I know you hate America so get over yourself. Have one of these innocent people come stay with you and see how long it takes them to kill your family and you. Go back to KOS where you belong

Dustoff| 1.27.09 @ 3:45PM

SL.

Just maybe you missed the point or don't care too. The Geneva Convention which all of you libs so love to fawn over, does in NO-way cover these people. If you wish to get down to the brass tax. We could shoot them on-site when caught.
During WWII we kept many Germans in camps until the war was over. They had no rights either.

I find it so dang funny when I see people like you getting all upset about these bad guys. Yet when a Israel solider is kidnapped, beaten the killed and body torn apart. Not one of you cry babes say a thing about it.

You people are just plain sick!

S.L. Toddard| 1.27.09 @ 3:50PM

"Just maybe you missed the point or don't care too. The Geneva Convention which all of you libs so love to fawn over, does in NO-way cover these people."

Actually it does. Innocent non-combatants are entirely covered by the Geneva Conventions. And yet we have caged and tortured innocent non-combatants. That is deplorable and illegal, right?

S.L. Toddard| 1.27.09 @ 3:52PM

"You honestly believe these guys that were found attacking our soldiers are innocent."

What guys? I'm not sure who you're talking about. Many of these people were pulled out of airports or their homes, many were nowhere near a battlefield. That is the problem with the process - we have caged and tortured innocent people - people whose innocence is uncontested now. People we have eventually let go, due to their innocence. Are you honestly unaware of this? Jesus christ.

tyman| 1.27.09 @ 3:56PM

SLT the fallacy in your argument is that you have no idea where these "innocent" people were found. You have no proof any were tortured, you believe that were so therefore they were. You are the reult of the liberal teachings in our schools. Totally clueless.

S.L. Toddard| 1.27.09 @ 3:59PM

"SLT the fallacy in your argument is that you have no idea where these "innocent" people were found."

We have the statements of U.S. gov't officials given under oath. Does that count?

Tyman | 1.27.09 @ 4:02PM

SLT what about the torture? You can't answer can you. Give me a link to these government officials a name something.

Tyman| 1.27.09 @ 4:07PM

Sure is quiet, all of a sudden. Oh by the way, find me a non-liberal government official. Even a moderate or libertarian

Tim| 1.27.09 @ 4:16PM

SLT,

Let us assume for a momement that a few of these detained suspects turn out to be totally innocent and have no connection with the thugs that want to kill and destroy Westerners.

Would you personally risk not holding suspects and then end up being wrong and those that you failed to detain decide to ram a truck full of explosives in the front of your children's school, or your spouse's place of employment, or your best friends super bowl party bash?

How would you feel about human rights then?

Obviousely, we should never go around rounding up random law abiding muslims because they look like our enemy. But you are suggesting that our American fighting forces have just been going around rounding up muslims at random for the fun of it.

The truth of the matter is that every person held at Gitmo had reason to be held there and it wasn't based on just their etnicity but rather based on some serious and careful intelligence gathered over time.

Have some mistakes been made.....yes.....but many more lives have been saved.

Dustoff| 1.27.09 @ 4:21PM

SLT
Drop the caged remake fool. It's called a cell and they were removed from them years ago.
They were kept in them because of the high temps in Cuba.

You can't even get that one right

PS.. show any links to where these people were found.

Jeffrey Lord| 1.27.09 @ 4:29PM

SL..

What Nazis? We merely picked up tens of thousands up in the 1940's because they'd been forced into untenable situations by a local politician and his buddies. We must, surely, owe lots of money to these so-called Nazis or their descendants because not a one of them was given a trial...just scooped up and held against their will in Guantanamo's all over the world - almost half a million right here in the US. And here they were put to forced labor. Shameful behavior by FDR. Shameful. You draft the apology and call the lawyers, OK? What a bonanza!

Dustoff| 1.27.09 @ 4:37PM

Jeff.

LOL, sweet

Jeremiah| 1.27.09 @ 4:41PM

Abusing a prisoner who is rendered completely powerless is weak and cruel. No evidence exists that this treatment has yielded useful information, and military experts generally abhor it.

Someone above claims that prisoners at G.B. were fairly treated.

While in general prisoners seem to have been treated humanely, there are many reports that prisoners were abused and even tortured.

Some of the abuse seems to be recreational sadism carried out by agents and soldiers.

Still others were subjected to "enhanced interrogation," including water-boarding, a form of torture and a war crime the U.S. military has prosecuted in the past.

During WWII, Nazis were indeed held for the length of the conflict. (Remember, that was a WAR, with a beginning, middle, and end, as well as an enemy that could be named and defined.)

Maltreatment of Nazi soldiers and officials was harshly punished by the US and its allies.

A complete falsehood being thrown around on these absurd right-wing fringes is the notion that the Geneva Conventions does not cover people held at G.B.

Anyone who has the smallest knowledge knows that the whole point of the Conventions was to minimize cruelty to prisoners and harm to non-combatants.

The U.S. is further obliged by its OWN LAWS and other treaties to deal with ALL prisoners humanely. Denying them water, sleep, food, and shelter would qualifying as maltreatment, as would denying them air by water boarding.

Face it folks.

Your phony, fraudulent tough-guy act has been EXPOSED. Like Ted Haggard, you make a big show of being manly -- but in reality, it's not so.

Cruelty is weakness.

Ex Donkey| 1.27.09 @ 5:11PM

"Liberals":
Foolish. Ignorant. Complicit.

Dustoff| 1.27.09 @ 5:16PM

Jere
A complete falsehood being thrown around on these absurd right-wing fringes is the notion that the Geneva Conventions does not cover people held at G.B.
++++++++++++++++++++

Yeah right... read it. If caught in combat "using people as cover and not wearing a uniform of a combat unit/country. You have no rights. Hey bud, when did Osama or taliban sign the GC paper work.
Typical of the left wing to care for bad guys but never our own troops!

PS... instead of saying they were abused. Put up some facts.
We know they are trained to lie. Because they know morons like you fall for it.

Ole Joe| 1.27.09 @ 5:45PM

Jeremiah, During WW2 FDR would would have put you in a detention camp with the Japanese and Italians for your comments. FDR would have said if it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, it must be a duck. Heck, walking and talking like the enemy wasn't required, simply having an ethenic last name was good enough.

Once upon a time both parties abided by the rule that the politics end at the waters edge and anything beyond that was treason. That has all changed for the Democrat party. Treson is when someone aids and abets an enemy in time of war. Your party and you have done so. Yes, we know, you suport the troops but not their mission. If you are supporting the enemy, be man enough to admit it.

Ole Joe| 1.27.09 @ 6:22PM

Jeremiah, one last little observation about you, you are a hypocrite. You are ready to thrash me for calling you a name, traitor. At Gitmo, thrashing is considered torture worse than water boarding. So you are ready to torture over name calling but imprisoning our enemy for trying to kill Americans is a no-no. You might want to reassess your value system.

Jeremiah| 1.27.09 @ 6:26PM

Ole Joe --

The point is, you insufferable jackass, many of the people at G.B. are entirely innocent. If you ever read a newspaper, you'd know that the government has released hundreds of people after declaring them completely uninvolved with terrorism.

And yes, I'd thrash you, you schmuck. I'll not be called a traitor, especially by the son of a mongrel bitch.

Jeremiah| 1.27.09 @ 6:27PM

Dustoff --

You know nothing. Read the reporting done by Jane Mayer, for starters.

Ex Donkey| 1.27.09 @ 8:12PM

Jeremiah:
Foolish. Ignorant. Complicit.

Alan Brooks| 1.27.09 @ 8:31PM

Jeremiah is picking our brains, he is digging into us to see what he can get.
do you know how badly Russians treat prisoners? and they are authoritarian now-- not totalist; imagine how they used to treat prisoners.
It's always America is bad, blame America first with these sort.
What do they gain by coming here? what marginal pleasure do they derive by commenting at amspec and baiting us. they come Here, we dont go to them.

Jeremiah| 1.27.09 @ 8:36PM

Ole Joe, I apologize for my boorish behavior. You see, after that unpleasant stint in Fort Leavenworth I had difficulties restraining my sphincters and what I call my brain (that everybody else calls otherwise) has a slight tendency to escape on civilized blogs. Nobody wants me on liberal blogs anymore, I was useful during the campaign, though, I would claim to be a Republican and everybody would be willing to believe it. You also know me under the aliases of SLT and Bob. I'm not schizophrenic but forgive us.

Alan Brooks| 1.27.09 @ 8:37PM

but no matter what we write, it's read mayer, read chomsky, read some other professional ax-grinder.
"i'll thrash you to within an inch of your life...";
the doggedness of this bulldog Jeremiah digging into the leg, never letting go. bait and switch, bite and switch.
And why DO you post at amspec, what's in it for you to comment here? You DO understand the puzzlement? what do you want from us-- spit it out.

Ole Joe| 1.27.09 @ 8:43PM

Jeremiah, you wouldn't last ten seconds if we were close enough. Believe me, I'm nasty as Hell and I usually bites liberal noses off. You wouldn't last ten seconds with anybody, you wimp. A lady like Ann Coulter would have you praying towards Mecca with a Jumbo sized dildo up your dirty fat butt while you would be licking her boots, praying for mercy. You're a shameful turd, you stink, and you pretend to be smart. You're a liberal.

Bob| 1.27.09 @ 9:02PM

Jeremiah, I wish you would spend a night in jail with the innocent citizen whose picture is posted on top left of this article!

Jeremiah| 1.27.09 @ 10:43PM

Ole Joe --

That's most brave, to call a man a traitor from behind a computer screen.

I served my country in uniform, and when I was trained, I recall my drill sergeants being unambiguous about the treatment of prisoners, civilian and military.

Drill sergeants are capable of many things. One thing of which they are NOT capable, is nuance.

And nuance there was not: prisoners, once subdued, are treated humanely, and given water and food, and never beaten or abused. No circumstances could justify sexual humiliation, "stress positions," and any of the other horrors reported in these prisons.

You people think and talk like adolescents. You need to learn the strength that comes with decency and restraint.

A superpower does not behave like Brazil or Saudi Arabia.

None of you understand the least bit about what it means to be an American.

Grow up, you fools.

Alan Brooks| 1.27.09 @ 11:43PM

again, the question is: why post comments at amspec if you are sure those you disagree with at this site have to "grow up"?
simply: why not comment at some other site?

you wont change anybody's mind at AS because you can't really back up your claims of prisoners being abused at Gitmo.

Jeremiah| 1.28.09 @ 12:24PM

On another hand, if I had really served my country in uniform, I wouldn't be a dumb liberal, I wouldn't threaten to beat up an opponent on a blog, I wouldn't insult everybody's intelligence and I would be a patriot. Maybe I didn't take seriously enough the motto "don't ask, don't tell".

George| 1.28.09 @ 12:52PM

Regarding my Comment posted yesterday at 11:30 AM, it occurs to me based on the high intellectual level of this discussion that many of us might be jealous that I am singling out Chicago for the honor of being a sanctuary for those paragons of virtue currently incarcerated in Cuba. Surely your own community is also blessed with such great citizens as Rezko, Mr. and Mrs. Ayers as well as yourselves. Not to mention such magnificent religious institutions as Trinity United, the Nation of Islam, the numerous Catholic (54% Obama) parishes and Jewish (78% Obama) synagogues which would surely be welcoming to these Godly men. It is so unfair that only the Windy City enjoy the economic stimulus of hosting these Martyrs for Muhammad. Further a quick glance outside reveals several inches of global warming covering the yard. Since I’m hundreds of miles south of the Hog Butcher for the World (I hope not a problem for those who practice Halaal), it’s remotely possible its location on the shores of Lake Michigan would be inhospitable at this time of year and for the foreseeable future to those from a desert climate, especially those who have been living on a tropical island for any recent length of time. So why don’t we each open up our own homes to serve as half-way houses for these gentlemen while they learn to live in a free and open community once again? Need I point out that being shackled and tortured in U.S. government institutions for any period of time is surely a fate worse than death, so these saints have truly earned on Earth the Heavenly rewards promised them by their recruiters. Let’s see, that’s 72 virgins at the going rate of $3.7 million per. I may have to waive the black-eyed stipulation for these women. It would be so unfair to those burdened with amber, gray, blue, green, brown, hazel, bloodshot or other eye color to be excluded from this once in eternity opportunity. I am also concerned that nobody, in the midst of all this discussion about habeas corpus, right to an attorney and so forth, has spoken up for the second amendment rights of these upstanding individuals. I found some nice Glocks for sale on the internet for a unit price of only $499 and a box of lead free ammunition for $50.81. Let me see here $3,700,000 * 72 + $499 + $50.81 + $100 per diem to cover food and clothing for a year or $36,500 (so they have some transition cash), I think there are about 250 of these persecuted souls, which comes to a trifling $231,259,512,452.50 or a mere $925,038,049.81 apiece. Even if I can negotiate a bulk rate, the cost of assisting these potential pillars of society is steep by any outside the Beltway measure, and with the government already printing billions to pay off political obligations, I doubt that Congress will offer more than a token million or so to offset the expense of relocating any of these exemplary and handsome young men, even though it is way less than the trillion or so the government is offering capitalist criminals. I doubt Tim Geithner will bail us out. He’s much too busy looking for his misplaced tax forms. This is where I boldly step forward by offering each of you as advocates for Truth, Justice and the American Way this once in an election cycle opportunity. Don’t wait for your legislatures to impose a carbon offset fee (not a tax). Step forward. Share your wealth. Demonstrate to Joe Biden just how patriotic you are. Open your homes and wallets to those misplaced by the Evil Bush. Simply email me the following information from the face of your credit card: your full name, account number and expiration date. Include your home and billing addresses, plus your home and mobile phone numbers. From the back of the same card also send me your credit card issuer’s 800 number and the security code. Add a personal note to The All Merciful Obama that you are willing to adopt one of these persecuted souls and will open up your home to him. You will also need room for all those virgins, though I think one bed will suffice for all 73 people. Keep in mind that my proposed budget failed to account for food or clothing for the girls, so you might have to include their nutrition requirements in your own grocery list. I doubt they will require a wardrobe - certainly a welcome savings since you will also need to pay any and all expenses that Nancy Pelosi and her friends fail to cover. For my part, I solemnly promise to each and every one of you that I will bill a token $99.99 to your credit card for my personal use to offset my expenses for initiating this movement, unless you kindly authorize I charge more. Further I will compile a monthly list of all the above information and snail mail it to the White House, so Our Lord and Savior will be able to place these war orphans in friendly habitats for humanity. You are all Great Americans, and surely God will suitably reward you for doing His work here on Earth.

May the Peace and Blessings of God’s Anointed Obama descend upon you and yours forever.

Please join me in prayer.
Our Obama, who lives in Washington, hollow be thy Name. Thy kingdom won, thy will be done, in Utah as it is in Congress. Give us this day our mortgage and car payments. And forgive us for voting for John or Hillary, as we forgive all those who doubt you. And lead us not into temptation, for we are but poor lemmings in your presence who don’t really want to be delivered from evil. For yours is the kingdom, and the power, and the glory, for at least the next four years. Amen.

S.L. Toddard| 1.28.09 @ 1:12PM

"The Geneva Convention which all of you libs so love to fawn over, does in NO-way cover these people" - 'Dustoff'

The Supreme Court of the United States disagrees with you. In the Hamdan decision they determined that "Common Article 3 of the Geneva Convnetions apply to the conflict against al Qaida"

http://gulcfac.typepad.com/georgetown_university_law/2006/06/hamdan_and_the_.html

"SLT what about the torture?"

What about it? What's your question? Can you honestly say that interrogations that are so brutal they lead to the DEATH of the accused, or to his insanity, can not be called "torture"? Drowning someone is not "torture"? The United States, before it adopted the practice, considered it so monstrous they prosecuted people for waterboarding as a war crime:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/11/02/AR2007110201170.html

That techniques used at Gitmo qualify as torture under Geneva is beyond question - that is the entire reason the Bush administration tried to argue that the detainees were not protected by Geneva - a claim that has been emphatically and entirely rejected by the Supreme Court, which means the subject is no longer up for debate - it is a *fact* under US law that detainees in Gitmo are protected by Geneva.

Would you like statements from the victims about the abuses they suffered?

http://ccrjustice.org/ourcases/current-cases/rasul-v.-rumsfeld

No - they're filthy muslims and cannot be believed. How about statements from their legal reps?

http://www.boston.com/news/globe/editorial_opinion/oped/articles/2007/01/11/trapped_at_guantanamo/

Will you believe those? No, they’re on the side of “terrorists”. How about the Red Cross?

http://www.commondreams.org/headlines04/1130-01.htm

No, it says “Red” in their name – must be left wing communists.

"SLT the fallacy in your argument is that you have no idea where these "innocent" people were found"

I know the five Algerians who were ordered released from Guantanamo by a federal judge due to their obvious innocence were captured in Bosnia, far away from any "battlefield" and absolutely not "attacking our soldiers". Where these men were captured is not disputed.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/11/20/AR2008112001714.html?hpid=topnews

"Let us assume for a momement that a few of these detained suspects turn out to be totally innocent and have no connection with the thugs that want to kill and destroy Westerners. "

We don't need to "assume" - we know. Over 250 people have been released from Guantanamo, after being jailed without trial and spending months or years kept in a cage, enduring brutal treatment, and all the while being referred to as "terrorists" by idiots like you.

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/facility/guantanamo-bay_detainees.htm

Dai Alanye| 1.28.09 @ 2:14PM

Let's remember there are Geneva Conventions which the US has signed and ratified--giving them the force of law--and additional Geneva Conventions which we have deliberately refused to sign. It is these latter that demand illicit combatants be treated as treasured innocents. Under the older Conventions these nasties could be executed in the field.

Regarding the Supreme Court and Hamdan, this isn't the first blockheaded split decision by the Court, nor will it be the last. Hamdan might be 'the law' but that's not to say it is either morally correct or wise.

In the propaganda of the left claims of prisoner abuse have been vastly exaggerated, as has the retention of "innocents." Indeed, many of these fine folks have been released only to return to active terrorism. We really ought not to be so silly as to worry overly much if the dragnet has caught a few whose crimes don't quite rise to the level of terrorism. After all, this is foreign war not domestic law enforcement.

"Torture doesn't work." This is laughable. Tell that to John McCain who--although he opposes it and has made the same claim--broke under torture, as did most American captives of the North Vietnamese. While in the military I attended a training session on resisting enemy pressure when captured. It was quite realistic, aiming at resistance to the point where your life or health would be seriously endangered, but recognizing there were limits as to how much bad treatment most men could take. The guidelines were: Hold out as long as you can, give as little information as you can.

As we've learned, water-boarding works like a charm. If done to elicit critical, life-saving information, torture of terrorists weighs very lightly on my conscience. In fact, I rather like the practice. ;~)

S.L. Toddard| 1.28.09 @ 2:34PM

"Regarding the Supreme Court and Hamdan, this isn't the first blockheaded split decision by the Court, nor will it be the last. Hamdan might be 'the law' "

Indeed, it is the law that detainees at Guantanamo or otherwise captured in the so-called "War On Terror" are protected by Geneva. This in an inarguable fact, and anyone who asserts otherwise is either ignorant or a liar. Therefore detainee abuse at Guantanamo is not only immoral, inhumane and barbaric, it is ILLEGAL under U.S. law, making all who abused prisoners there criminals - felons, in fact. And under treaty made law by the U.S. under Ronald Reagan, the United States is *compelled* to prosecute those who committed these felonies.

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1079/is_/ai_6742034

"We really ought not to be so silly as to worry overly much if the dragnet has caught a few whose crimes don't quite rise to the level of terrorism. After all, this is foreign war not domestic law enforcement."

What a repugnant, ignorant, notion. Treaties signed by the United States are made law equal in authority to the highest law of the land by Article 6 of the U.S. constitution. The violation of them is a violation, therefore, of domestic law. And the idea that it is "silly" to object to the imprisonment and abuse by one's own country of innocent people - without trial - is the sort of repugnant idiocy one might expect to hear from a clownish, low-level thug in a despotic banana republic. Blackstone's formulation is one of the bedrock principles of American justice, and to casually toss it aside is to reject the entire idea of American justice itself, and to display a breathtaking ignorance and a repulsive sort of arrogance.

S.L. Toddard| 1.28.09 @ 2:42PM

In the propaganda of the left claims of prisoner abuse have been vastly exaggerated, as has the retention of "innocents."

Really? What claims in particular are exaggerated?

The US has released over 250 detainees. You say "many of these fine folks have been released only to return to active terrorism" - how many is "many"? Give us a number.

Michele San Pietro| 1.28.09 @ 3:32PM

Over the past few years, terrorists have systematically gotten better treatment than honest people, and that's simply scandalous.

Jeremiah| 1.28.09 @ 8:16PM

S.L. Rettard, the number is 61. Is it "many" or it it "enough"? Dumb idiot. You could have found it everywhere on the Web if you had done your homework instead of leaving layers after layers of liberal gunk on every civilized forum. You got too much time on your hands in Colorado Springs. Get a life, you loser.

S.L. Toddard| 1.29.09 @ 9:14AM

"S.L. Rettard, the number is 61."

Source?

S.L. Toddard| 1.29.09 @ 11:45AM

Sure is quiet, all of a sudden

Nick| 1.29.09 @ 4:14PM

Mr. Toddard,

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/northamerica/usa/4230850/Released-Guantnamo-Bay-detainees-return-to-terrorism.html

"He said the Pentagon now believes that, as of the end of December, 61 former Guantánamo detainees have returned to the fight, up from 37 the last time the Pentagon provided an estimate, which was in March 2008.

"Of those, 18 had been confirmed as once again having become directly involved in 'terrorist activities.'"

I know the Pentagon is not as prestigous a source as a Baathist newspaper, the Iraqi Cultural Minister, or Ramsey Clark; but for Americans it doesn't get much better.

And before you try it, is 18 confirmed killers returning to their old tricks an acceptable number for you?

S.L. Toddard| 1.29.09 @ 6:08PM

"I know the Pentagon is not as prestigous a source as a Baathist newspaper, the Iraqi Cultural Minister, or Ramsey Clark; but for Americans it doesn't get much better."

How would you know? The Pentagon is hardly an independent source, I'm sorry. They are one of the principle actors in this whole drama, and have a lot to lose from closing Gitmo and having light shed on the whole tragedy. They have a rather obvious stake in this, and aren't exactly renowned for their forthrightness and honesty. Not to mention that the Pentagon is the headquarters for the US Department of Defense - you remember the US, right? The leading nation in the left-wing UN? Are we supposed to take the word of a bunch of left-wing crazies?

"And before you try it, is 18 confirmed killers returning to their old tricks an acceptable number for you?"

I find it entirely acceptable to release an accused person if there is not enough evidence to keep him, so in this case yes of course - absolutely and unreservedly. I find it slightly disturbing that a small percentage of those finally released from Gitmo (after being held without trial) are now *alleged* by the Pentagon to have turned to terrorism, though I've seen no names or any evidence that they were terrorists *before* being captured and caged without trial. Not that suprising, though, and I'm not particularly bothered by it. I'm not really horrified by terrorists acting like primitive savages - I'm horrified when Americans act like primitive savages, because - unlike you - I expect more from Americans. There should be a real and profound difference between the way America acts and the way a terrorist state acts. In civilized nations we do not encage people without proving their guilt in a trial, it is as simple as that. The notion that it is "better that ten guilty persons escape than that one innocent suffer" is the bedrock principle upon which our justice system is founded.

I understand that there are cowards in our midst who would compromise that system, would sell our souls, who would turn America into a terror state that cages and tortures and denies accused persons trial in their cowardice. These people must be opposed, for they do not know or love what makes America great, and they lack the backbone a man needs to live upright in a free society. Freedom has dangers. One of them is that the guilty some times go free so that the innocent never suffer their fate wrongly. It's fine if one objects to that notion, as long as one recognizes that in doing so they reject Western Civilization itself. And it's fine for one to cower and pine for the strong, sure hand of totalitarianism, as long as they are honest about their hatred for the American way.

Imagine that - 18 people are *alleged* to perhaps be somehow connected now to terrorism - by the Pentagon - somewhere on the other side of the globe. For THAT, people are pissing their pants and demanding the imprisonment of hundreds of innocent people *just in case*.

Good Christ are my countrymen easy to frighten. What a bunch of old women we've become.

Jeffrey Lord| 1.29.09 @ 8:27PM

Jeremiah...

Really? WWII was a "WAR with a beginning, a middle and an end." Amazing. I know for sure that Americans of the day could pinpoint December 7, 1941 as the beginning (at least in terms of America.) But I also know that on December 8th they had no idea when the middle would come much less the end. Apparently you seem to think wars come with a Consumer Reports-approved expiration date. ("This war will expire in September, 1945.") Since I very much doubt this I hate to say that some of us will believe the war is over when the last fatwa on an author is levied, the last suicide bomber leaves behind an apology note saying his or her side will never do this again, that Israel may exist in peace, that the last Islamic fascist has been killed and Osama Bin Ladin comes out of a cave to sign a treaty with General Petraeus. OK...you pick the date.

G| 1.29.09 @ 8:45PM

Watch FREE porn movies involving Jeremiah, Bob, Interloper, Darek, Crusader and S.L. Toddard! Lots of gay sex and liberal nonsense @InternetSurfshack.com

Nick| 1.29.09 @ 8:59PM

Mr. Toddard,

"How would you know?"
Because I trust my country, unlike you. I trust all the brave men who defend our great nation. From the Joint Chiefs down to the lowly Private. I trust they are not involved in some giant conspiracy.

"... have alot to lose..."
Are the Joint Chiefs partners with Rush in the Club Gitmo franchise?

"In civilized nations we do not encage people without proving their guilt in a trial..." Like POW's, right?

Your problem, Mr. Toddard, is that you don't unerstand that THIS IS WAR. Not a crime spree.
You're one of those guys who brings a knife to a gun fight.

Try reading up on the Laws of War.
Exit question: Was General Washington a war crimminal or terrorist when hanged Maj. Andre within 10 days of his capture and trial by military commission?

Nick| 1.29.09 @ 9:05PM

That's "...you don't UNDERSTAND..." of coarse.

Nick| 1.29.09 @ 9:15PM

As for the crude visual at the end.

I'll bet it was someone like yourself who was soiling themselves on the morning of September 11th.

kjllk| 11.19.09 @ 10:17PM

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