The American Spectator

Jason| 11.25.08 @ 6:32AM

Careful analysis of the exit polls show that race was the deciding factor in this election. Whites favored McCain by a very generous margin, nonwhites supported Obama overwhelmingly. It's just that simple. The white youth vote was the only important exception that I could identify.

Appleby| 11.25.08 @ 7:04AM

As a practicing Catholic who believes we must obey ALL the canons and not just the ones that do not interfere with our personal agendas, I submit that the *catholics* who claim to have supported the Obamination are in fact similar to his Vice President, whose own Bishop and Archbishop have condemned him as a Cafeteria Catholic who misrepresents the teaching of the Church. They are the Catholics sitting in the congregation with their second, third or fourth wife -- or their current mistress -- with condoms in their wallets, smug in their belief that they are Getting Away With It. They are the ones who believe that they are complying with Matthew 25 when they vote for someone who promises to extort at gunpoint the property of the unwilling and fling it by handsful from their tax-funded limousines, and whose own money is in offshore accounts and tax-free bonds.

In other words, they are CINO and God will get them. Sister was right, you congregation of rat finks. GOD CAN SEE YOU.

James M. Thunder| 11.25.08 @ 9:37AM

A very interesting take, but it is missing one factoid that needed to be factored in: 52% of practicing Catholics voted for McCain.

Chiefpayne| 11.25.08 @ 10:45AM

Well this is ONE PRACTISING Catholic who did NOT vote for Obama. I could NEVER vote for Obama when he is pro-Death (aka pro-abortion). It would be against everything I've ever been taught by the Catholic faith.

And I believe any so-called Catholic who DID vote for Obama, should just go change their faith and find another Church...because you OBVIOUSLY are NOT a practising Catholic!

amdream| 11.25.08 @ 11:34AM

Pls. check your facts. Egan wasn't the Cardinal in NY in '96, Cardinal O'Connor was.

rosie| 11.25.08 @ 11:52AM

You forget that Obama made a tremeandous push to get the Catholic vote. He first paraded pro-abortion Catholics to get the Catholic vote - Pelosi, Sebelius and Biden. Polling showed it wasn't swaying Catholics - so he went to plan B and sent out pro-life Catholics like Doug Kmiec.
His story was that the Democratic party reflected the Catholic social justice issues and anti-war platform better and that his approach would result in fewer abortions. It was a cold-calculated approach of lying to Catholics so that he could get their votes.

Frank Natoli| 11.25.08 @ 12:37PM

So what if 52% of "practicing Catholics" voted for McCain? Who is more "practicing" than the Catholic clergy itself, which is overwhelmingly Democratic? The fact is, the clergy has to choose between one party, which demands individual responsibility at all levels, including accepting the "unexpected" results of sexual intercourse, and another party which dismisses individual responsibility for almost anything, including said "unexpected" results. The clergy chooses the party of individual irresponsibility, because the clergy [incredibly] considers that behavior more Christ-like. If the clergy concluded otherwise, the clergy would declare Kerry, Biden, Pelosi, Sebelius, et al, not Catholics, which the clergy refuses to do. When the clergy so preaches, why would anyone reasonably expect lay Catholics to conclude otherwise?

jhn| 11.25.08 @ 12:44PM

You can both believe that abortion is a grave sin and that it shouldn't be illegal. There is no contradiction. Not everything evil needs to be prohibited by law.

Outlawing abortion is not only an unachievable political goal that is not even worth wasting time thinking about. It is also likely to do more harm than good.

There has always been abortion.

Steven Ertelt| 11.25.08 @ 1:00PM

Allott is exactly right. From my own analysis ... at http://www.lifenews.com/nat4576.html ...

The Marist survey found 63 percent of Catholics say abortions should be permitted in none or almost no cases by opposing all abortions, all abortions except to save the mother's life, or all abortions except to save the mother's life or in cases of rape or incest.

That puts 63 percent of Catholics opposing about 98 percent of all abortions, according to Alan Guttmacher Institute information about when abortions are done.

Breaking down the polling data further, 72 percent of practicing Catholics take one of the three pro-life positions opposing all or almost all abortions. And 47 percent of non-practicing Catholics say they oppose all or most abortions.

In addition, the Marist College poll found just 6 percent of all Catholics, 5 percent of practicing Catholics and 8 percent of non-practicing Catholics say they agree with Barack Obama that abortions should be legal at any time during pregnancy.

With presidential exit polling data confirming the economy was far and away the number one issue on which voters made their decision for president, Richards' contention that the results show Catholics now somehow support abortion is off base.

Combining the presidential results, the exit polls and the polling data, the only plausible conclusion is that some Catholic voters backed Obama despite their disagreement with him on abortion.

Francis M. Hannon, Jr.| 11.25.08 @ 1:12PM

jhn,

There have always been people who commit non-abortion murder, and there always will be; your frankly stupefying argument would allow for laws against murder to be done away with.

If you're a Catholic (and even if you aren't), and you want to cling to the notion that you can cooperate with legalized unborn child slaughter, then go ahead and take your chances, but I would first direct your attention to the words of the late Sen. Henry Hyde, who said "When the time comes as it surely will, when we face that awesome moment, the final judgment, I've often thought, as Fulton Sheen wrote, that it is a terrible moment of loneliness. You have no advocates, you are there alone standing before God and a terror will rip through your soul like nothing you can imagine. But I really think that those in the pro-life movement will not be alone. I think there will be a chorus of voices that have never been heard in this world but are heard beautifully and clearly in the next world and they will plead for everyone who has been in this movement. They will say to God, "Spare him because he loved us," and God will look at you and say not, "Did you succeed?" but "Did you try?"

Spicy Joker| 11.25.08 @ 1:19PM

For crying out loud, there is no "Catholic vote." Most of the "Catholics" I know aren't particularly religious or only go to church twice a year.

Alan Brooks| 11.25.08 @ 1:55PM

I agree with Appleby, you must obey all the canons, and not be a cafeteria Catholic. Of course you can do what you want-- like if you want to cheat on your wife, go ahead, she's just the old lady, right?
Work hard and Don't play by the rules.
If you're a Catholic and think the rules are getting in the way of "freedom" (partying) then just let it all hang out, baby. Rules are for someone else.
But then the question is: why be a Catholic at all? Why not become a Buddhist swinger?

Alan Brooks| 11.25.08 @ 2:10PM

Look, abortion isn't the issue, the immorality leading to abortion is. If you engage in illicit sex then oppose abortion at the risk of your hypocritical soul.
We forgive immorality unless it affects OUR families; we forgive the Michael Jacksons of the world unless they touch our sons or nephews inappropriately, and then we are brassknuckle conservatives all of a sudden.

David Evans| 11.25.08 @ 2:26PM

The survey did not say that the 52% were "practicing Catholics," but rather that they "identified" themselves as Catholics. As with many polls, there is probably a lot of chaff among the wheat. Still it is rather disturbing that there are Catholics so out of touch with Church teaching. I pray for their conversion as well as the rest of the nation. I hope, too, that our bishops and other clergy will begin speaking out more forcefully on the evil of abortion.

Alan Brooks| 11.25.08 @ 3:21PM

I derive from an extremely lib family, radic-lib, but saw through liberalism (the liberalism of Ted Kennedy, not classical liberalism) long ago. Am now Catholic and always will be.
However I still have doubts about conservatism when Conservatives blame abortion and not the sinner, the do-your-own-thing right-wing excuse. Is that too radical? to blame the cause of abortion and not abortion itself? Does that make me a naif & simpleton, or a "whack-job"?

Will never vote Republican (if 'Republican' in the future has any connection with conservatism) until the morality of so many younger religious conservatives changes. You cannot cheat on your wife, look at porn, smoke marywanna, or party in many other ways that so many young "conservatives" (right-wingers) do and be moral.
I do not give diddly about abortion stats, Catholic stats,
or all the rest though I have read them. They're for statistics wonks, not conservatives.
What I resent, yes resent, is the "we are all sinners" view that others are somehow connected to your sin. If you cheat on your spouse YOU are the sinner, we are not all one in sin, I do not share your pain, Bill and Hillary might, but not someone else.
"Do as thou wilt"?... be "free"(enslaved to your passions)? Go ahead. Just as long as the consequences are born by YOU, and not your supposed brothers & sisters (enablers) in sin.

blotto| 11.25.08 @ 3:36PM

Frank Natoli and Spicy Joker both have it about right. Ever since Vatican II, Catholics have been using the "cafeteria" model for being a Catholic. They sit in church but very few practice what they hear in the gospel. It is too inconvenient.
Priests, like Frank said, have much to blame for the crisis in the church. When they are silent on topics like abortion, gay marriage, the attack on Catholic/Christian values and traditions, they are tacitly approving of the destruction of the values of our nation. They do so out of political expediency. Too many priests approve of illegal immigration, unfettered welfare, and gay rights or they would be speaking out. I have yet to hear of one priest condemn the incident of the elderly woman with the cross. Not one! Either that or they are too afraid of losing their tax exempt status.
Finally, my sister is a devout Catholic and still supported Obama. I sent her articles on his stand on abortion to no avail. I cannot understand her logic. Except that our parents were traditional Dems from FDR times and I guess she is so blinded by her love of our parents or those times they lived in that she must vote a party line.
A religion that will not defend itself is a religion that will not survive.

blotto| 11.25.08 @ 3:38PM

I forgot to add that I am so frustrated at Catholics and Christians who will not defend themselves in the face of American Jews, ACLU, ADL and secularists when it comes to visible signs of our religion and the inevitable law suits.

Alan Brooks| 11.25.08 @ 4:26PM

"visible signs of our religion and the inevitable lawsuits"? Egad, this must be the wrong site-- it must be NAMBLA Apologist Site! why is it so hard to write: "priests molested children and the underage so the families 'inevitably' received recompense?"
Say, um, what would you do if your precious underage relatives were molested? [no reply]
And Blotto, right, blame it on the jews, among others, not the perv-priests.
I'm almost ashamed to be Catholic.

Alan Brooks| 11.25.08 @ 4:34PM

...and don't say the number of priests was small, everybody knows that.
and don't say the victims weren't children-- a few of them were in fact under the age of 14.
God, with so many ditzy rightwingers, no wonder Obama won. But just maybe blame it on the jews... we cant blame ourselves, can we?

Alan Brooks| 11.25.08 @ 4:37PM

or did you mean pubic displays? you might want to be more specific than 'visible signs'...

Scoutkraft| 11.25.08 @ 4:59PM

Appleby I totally agree.
I wouldn't over analyze the Catholic vote. Most are so ignorant of their faith and the teachings of the Church, that they feel they could reasonably support Obama over "social justice issues", whatever those are. In reality they chose a proabortion candidate who voted for infanticide, in the hope of a frikking tax rebate. I don't think most Catholics spent more than 5 seconds thinking about their choice in regards to their faith. I hope the Church starts educating their parishoners.

Larry| 11.25.08 @ 5:05PM

Interesting article. But the posts are even more interesting.

Jhn's argument would only make sense if policymakers weren't trying to take active steps to continue the evil by conferring further legal status on abortion, as Barack Obama will do by asking Congress to repeal the Hyde Amendment and by refusing to appoint a Supreme Court judge who would take a serious look at the soundness of the legal reasoning of Roe v. Wade. As for Alan Brooks, I think he takes logic to an extreme - while you can "blame the sin, and not the sinner" too much, it makes no sense to simply blame the cause of people's behavior and do absolutely nothing at all about actual abortion practice. Laws are often written in a particular way because lawmakers realize that there is some behavior that cannot be regulated any other way other than by outright prohibition of the activity. In the case of abortion, there are too many moral and social implications to doing nothing, in my opinion. And by the way, Alan, stop using the sinfulness of individuals who speak on this subject as a way of blunting their criticism. The "we are all sinners" argument is not meant to collectively link everyone to the guilt of a particular individual. It is meant to say that no one is disqualified from making a legitimate comment or argument on an important moral topic merely because they sin in one particular way or another.

Finally, I think that Catholics who voted for Obama were doing so on the calculus (faulty though it may be) that Obama's stance on social justice issues and his race far outweighed considerations of about abortion. I find it hard to believe that Catholics would let Obama off the hook simply because he was not Catholic - there has to be more to it than that.

Joseph| 11.25.08 @ 5:22PM

Scoutkraft put it correctly when he says that Catholics are simply ignorant of their faith. Additionally during this Elections the liberal main stream media so hid Obama's failings including his positioning on abortion that some (only some) voted for him out of ignorance.
Add to this the tacit support of Obama by 50% of bishops and priests and you could only get the results on Nov 4th.
It is interesting that no one has taken up the recent death of a young black man on a webcam which is so indicative of the culture of death supported by the pro abortionists who see nothing wrong in killing babies at the most vulnerable time of their short lives. It is this pro death policy that dumbs us all down when it comes to the sancity of life and respect for others.
Just this Sunday I listened to the sermon as it outlined Christ's view on assisting the most vulnerable among us and I listened to the New York based priest and wondered why he did not find it in his heart to mention even once the aborted children who are indeed the most vulnerable among us. Then I realized it would not have been politically correct in liberal New York where killing children cannot be allowed to interfere with the lifestyle choice of east coast liberals.

Alan Brooks| 11.25.08 @ 6:27PM

Joe,
if only it was the lifestyle choice of eastcoast libs. i grew up in an ultralib family in the Big Apple, but now i live not far from Cheyenne Wyoming. Maybe AmSpec is not the place to mention this, but in the past 20 years I've gotten propositioned by more couples and groups in Wyoming than I ever was by people in NY (i refuse the offers).

the rural rutting revolution. coming to a party near you.

Alan Brooks| 11.25.08 @ 7:07PM

Larry,
your reply was excellent, not only the two short replies to my hastily written posts, but to others' posts.
But the schwerpunkt of my message was--is-- maybe a little different from what you think.
We are not disqualified from condemning abortion because we sin, no, we condemn abortion because we sin and thus we know from where we speak, we know from where we sin. Read my previous post, concerning rutting in Wyoming. I know sin because it is dangled in my face (no pun intended)-- as sin loves company. So collective guilt comes from at least two directions: we are all sinners and must forgive each other, and we are all sinners so perhaps you wont be a "reactionary" (conservative) or "counterrevolutionary" (!) and will join in our fun? Please, you only live once, Alan, don't make us feel bad.
Guilt takes many forms.
Believe it or not I don't reject libertarianism, though libertarians are the most contentious bunch on the planet.
If someone wants to be morally incontinent, go ahead. As long as I don't know about it. I'm tired of hearing about depravity and abortion, if people want to be wild, then go ahead, as long as I don't know about it. If women are having abortions I don't want to know about it. My family was radic-lib and I was exposed to all forms of degradation starting 45 years ago.
I've had enough.

Paul| 11.26.08 @ 9:43AM

Great article. Obama has no idea what he has unleashed. God's Providence is perfect. No way Obama gets elected unless God permits it. That means, God "willed" Obama's win, for some mysterious reason. There is active will and permissive will. So why allow this? I believe it is because the Church will rise up against the anti-Church. I decision will have to be made: life or death, Christ or secularism and eventually Hell. Be thankful; we are living in the most important of times. We get to lay down our lives for the King. Be prepared and fight the good fight. God bless on this Thanksgiving weekend. "We do well to always and everywhere give You thanks."

Michael L. Hauschild| 11.26.08 @ 9:52AM

Danial Allott goes to great length to stress the significance of "Correlation and Causation." He than falls into his own trap of citing the demon "correlation" as "causation." His "closer look" is simply "another look."
Being a child of academia and having produced over one hundred kilograms of hard copy research I can assure you that all of these poll based "conclusions" are not worth the electricity it cost to display them on your screen.
The only thing this recent election concluded is "who," the why is so convoluted, devolved, and the closeness of the factions so statistically similar that significance is not possible.

Timothy L. Pennell| 11.26.08 @ 10:22AM

Look. This is simple. It's IMPOSSIBLE to be PRO-ABORTION, or throw your support, to a person who is for the willfull SLAUGHTER of unborn babies-(and that's what they are)-and be a CHRISTIAN. If you think that you can, than you don't understand CHRIST. Maybe you should pray to someone else.

ruth| 11.26.08 @ 1:29PM

Yes, Appleby, the nuns were right, "God sees everything." It seems like yesterday that I was sitting in that hot, cramped classroom with 59 other kids. Man, those were the days--I've never forgotten those life-lessons.

Rick LaBonte| 11.26.08 @ 2:18PM

Catholics do not support Obama, they did not vote for him. The people who voted for Obama may have been Catholics at one time, but the decision to vote for Obama removes them automatically from the Catholic community. They are excommunicated, they are not Catholic. Period. It is a lie and a smear to real Catholics to keep saying that Catholics voted for Obama or that they supprt abortion. No one who supports abortion is a Catholic.

Tony Arden| 11.26.08 @ 5:02PM

"No one who supports abortion is a Catholic. "
Unfortunately there are those obstinate Kennedys, Pelosis, Kerrys, Bidens etc. who just won't go away.

Ruth| 11.26.08 @ 7:05PM

Pro abortion catholics are CINOs, including the liberal politicians listed in the comment above. Their time will come.

John K| 11.26.08 @ 9:05PM

Obama carried Catholics because the economy trumped abortion. Money always trumps principle.

ruth| 11.26.08 @ 9:13PM

The citizens of this country can be bought; so much for our character. Says a lot about our country, unfortunately.

michael| 11.27.08 @ 8:55AM

Pro-choice "catholics" are deluding themselves with their self deceptive belief that they are catholics in communion with the church. Their anti-catholic views on abortion and quite usually other views earn them Ipso-facto ex communications, "by the fact". Their large presence is a testament to the heiarchy of the church which for the last 40 plus years has turned their back on the teachings of the church for 1900 years to embrace the world thru false ecumenism. That is why today when the Bishops speak, no one listens. As St. Agustine accurately states the floor of Hell is loaded with the skulls of rotten Bishops.

fred edwards| 11.27.08 @ 11:36AM

Black women represent 6% of the total female population of the USA.However they have 36% of all abortions.NARL and Planned Parenthood have a plan to infest the poor black neighborhoods with as many abortiontoriums as they can fit. They have a tacit agreement with Obama to increrase the black abortion rate to 50% of all aborttions. Abotion will be well-done, not rare.

Tim| 11.27.08 @ 1:17PM

Obama won the Catholic Vote for two simple reasons.

1. The Priest abuse scandal has still left significant distrust between the clergy and the faithful.

2. The majority of U.S. Bishops were silent on the issue of abortion and other social issues and especially silent on just how pro abortion Obama really is.

If one takes the time, you will find that in areas that Catholic Bishops spoke forcefully on pro-life issues, McCain won those counties.

Unfortunately, only one third of the Catholic Bishops spoke forcefully. The good news is that this one third represents a big movement to the right for the leadership of the U.S. Catholic Church. The biggest block of concervative Bishops in decades.

As always, leadership usually trumps the economy. The lack of leadership never does.

Bottom Line for Liberals, enjoy the victory while you can, because it won't last long.

Happy Thansgiving to one and all....including the Obama supporters.....

Daphne Kenward| 11.28.08 @ 11:22AM

Fred Edwards.
Abortions amongst the Black community, here is the problem, you have women who are not educated, they are looking for love, and all of us needs love. Now the misguided problems are one sex is not love, sex is a desire.

Trouble is have unprotected sex produce children, people looking for love was not looking for children.

Next problem, poverty is not the best place to raise children. Second problem, men wanting sex, can only find sex with people who have low selfesteam, because high profile educated women would not have sex with men who are lowlife drop outs criminals. Thirdly most women Black are not looking for hardship, because they are raised in hardship, so being pregnant, is not a solution it is another nail in your coffin.

Pressure, Black men will not be a part of a childs life, because many are not capable to look after themselves, let alone a mother and a child.

Forth, black men are excluded from society, because white America don't want them having sex with white women, so keep them in prison, keep them on drugs, keep them in low employment, they have no money.

Fith, in Egypt the King the head the leader, said kill all the male child, so what happens is the Egypitains have a better selection of women, and dialute the bloodline of the Black people so you breed them out. Breed them out of existance, the trouble in America many White American Males don't find Black women attractive only the exceptions, and they are the most highly educated Black women who are extreamly successfull Black women who are also very attractive.

The kind of woman Obama is married to would be attractive to a White male, because she is excepetionally highly educated and the people a woman like that would mix around would be other highly educated people who would be white.

It's like saying why is Tiger Woods married to a white woman, simple they are the people in his position would meet. You don't meet drug dealers nor do you live where people like that would live.

Daphne Kenward| 11.28.08 @ 11:44AM

Fred.

Can you imagine, you have one daughter, and two sons. Your daughter came home and said dad I want you to meet my new boyfriend.

You are not a racist, hello son, what do you do then? from the conversation, you discover he has got several girls pregnant he has just got out of prison, he has no education, hello Fred! what would you do?
I am assuming you have your daughters interest at heart, and wan't the best for her. Many Black girls meet these guys, did'nt know they are drug addicts, criminals, and don't want to be caught up in a life of crime. People want what is best for their kids, and the women want a better life, so what they need to do is promote, family planning or better still obsention from this life.

Michael L. Hauschild| 11.29.08 @ 9:25AM

...and the heated argument between Vivian Ward and Sister Mary Stigmata on the poop deck of the Titanic continues.

Ms. Know| 11.29.08 @ 2:52PM

This was shockening to me as well. How did the left-wing illuminati win over so many people who are against their beliefs?

DaveS| 11.30.08 @ 5:14PM

The post-election 'lament' by the bishops is rather disturbing: check out the most recent two-faced editorial in Catholic New York for an example. In 2004 there was a 4-point election booklet on items that cannot be compromised (and, consistent with the Catechism, the death penalty did NOT make the list); in 2008 I saw no election guide of comparable sort and nothing in my Sunday bulletin. What happened? Only the Vatican can save American Catholics from the lame bishops who represent at least half of their number.

Anne| 12.16.08 @ 9:34PM

The one God the internal god in each
no external god
just the transcendental journey within
the one god
one person
one god
that's is the message!
Amalgamation of the races has taken place
What of the Amalgamation of government and business
Conservatives where are you?

Supra Shoes| 11.18.09 @ 4:56AM

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