The American Spectator : Saul Alinsky Takes the White House

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Saul Alinsky Takes the White House

By Quin Hillyer on 11.6.08 @ 6:09AM

Conservatives face a well-mined road.

Conservatives may not realize just how difficult it might be to recover from this week’s elections.

The day after the big defeat, the conservative chatter everywhere was about how the “movement” and the Republican Party (two different things) could finally unshackle themselves from the bad old habits that brought them down, and about how the ability to draw a sharp contrast with the Obama/Pelosi/Reid triumvirate would allow us to focus attention, rally the faithful, and re-storm the castle in 2010 and 2012.

Fat chance.

Too many conservatives think we’ve seen all this before — in 1964 and 1974 and 1992 — and that we know how to handle it. Fly, meet ointment: We’re not dealing with the same sorts of opponents. These New Alinskyites who are taking over the White House, combined with the most leftist congressional leadership in memory, will not let us play by the same rules under which conservatives recovered from those earlier debacles. They will try to drastically tilt the playing field, seed our side of the field with land mines and, in short, rig the process to make it next to impossible for the political right, or Republicans, to recover. And they are likely to succeed in at least some of these designs.

It will begin with their efforts to secure a filibuster-proof majority of 60 senators (including the two independents). Right now the libs (and yes, all the Democratic senators, with the possible exception of Nebraska’s Ben Nelson, are libs) have 56, with three Republican moderates and one conservative leading their races but awaiting recounts or runoffs. Watch for the Alinskyites to try stealing all four, and to succeed in at least two. We’ve seen this game before. They did it in Indiana’s “Bloody Eighth” congressional district in 1984. They almost succeeded in 2000 in Florida. They did succeed, outrageously so, in the Washington State governor’s race in 2004. Those are just the most obvious of many similar examples. And now they are even more ruthless, more lawyered-up, and in a more powerful position to pull it off than they were in any of those instances.

Next, watch what happens if they regularly can’t peel off enough Republicans (or hold their own semi-fairminded people like Nelson and Joe Lieberman) to overcome whatever filibuster attempts Republicans do mount. Watch for an assault on the filibuster itself. Watch how they use as precedent the GOP “nuclear/constitutional option” on judges in 2005 — except instead of just using it for judges, watch them use it against all filibusters. It’s easy: Make the ruling from the chair that the filibuster is out of order for some reason. Instruct the parliamentarian to rule in their favor. Win the appeal of the parliamentarian’s ruling by simple majority vote. And watch the courts pronounce it an internal matter of the legislative branch and thus outside of courtroom purview.

Watch a cheerleading establishment media — the Fourth Estate as a veritable Fifth Column — actually back these lefty maneuvers. It’s all in the name of one-man/one-vote democracy, dontcha know? The filibuster once served its purpose, they’ll say, but as a vestige of Southern “massive resistance” to integration it is now being used for massive resistance to the first black president, which invalidates it (suddenly) as a legitimate tool.

Watch the left use these tactics and others to pass even more liberalized voting laws — an open invitation to even more fraud that is more creative, easier to hide, and less challengeable in court.

Watch what Michael Barone called the Obama “thugocracy” use the Justice Department to stifle dissent. Anybody who complains about vote fraud will be charged with “vote suppression.” Anybody who complains about DoJ’s actions will be charged with interfering with an investigation. Anybody who denies having interfered will be charged with perjury. Likewise, anybody who peacefully protests abortion clinics or the use of state-sponsored racial quotas will be charged with a civil rights violation. And the accused won’t be able to look to the Supreme Court for help: Anthony Kennedy’s “evolving standards” of justice will evolve to match the new zeitgeist, providing a 5-4 majority for the administration. Meanwhile, of course, Obama’s other appointments will be filling up the rest of the judiciary at a rapid clip, with nobody able to stop them.

Other ways the Obama axis will tilt the playing field: “card check” legislation to eliminate secret ballots in unionizing and to force union victories in contract negotiations. Provision after provision giving favors to the trial bar so it can sue enemies into submission. Copious new regulations, especially environmental, to be used selectively to ensnare other conservative malcontents. Invasive IRS audits of conservative think tanks, other conservative 501 organizations, and PACs.

What Ohio officials did in rifling through so many of Joe Wurzelbacher’s files will serve as ample precedent. (Just watch, by the way: Nobody ever will be effectively disciplined for the violation of Wurzelbacher’s rights.)

And, only when the time is right and the ground (or air) has been well prepared, will come the grand-daddy of all fights, the re-enactment of the misnamed “Fairness Doctrine.”

Oh, they’ll be clever. They’ll pick their spot. They’ll wait until Rush Limbaugh or Sean Hannity or Mark Levin says something innocent they can twist out of context and call “hate speech” — and then they’ll highlight some schoolyard fight where a member of a “victim group” gets the worst of it as if the “attack” were caused by talk-rad…no, make that “hate radio,” which will be the new moniker the Fifth Column/Fourth Estate hangs on the talkmeisters.

(Even before imposing the Fairness Doctrine, they’ll use the Federal Communications Commission in other ways to put a muffler on their opponents.)

And, always, a few carefully calibrated street demonstrations, splashed with just the right headlines across the East Coast newspapers and captured by just the right camera angle on CBS News, will be used any time, on any issue, to make the point that civil unrest would be the price of resistance to the benevolent desires of the Obama regime.

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About the Author

Quin Hillyer is a senior editor of The American Spectator and a senior fellow at the Center for Individual Freedom. Follow him on Twitter @QuinHillyer.

Letter to the Editor View all comments (531) | Leave a comment Leave a comment

Richard| 11.6.08 @ 6:50AM

Therefore, it is time for the "undoing" of those things which the Left uses.
Bradley fought in the mud, up hills and in areas Patton the Prima Donna wouldn't.
Bradley's out there alright, establishment politicians aren't made of that genetic material though. Sorry.
Time to refresh the Tree of Liberty.
Peacefully with some people of Good Will and Morals who believe in keeping foundations and pillars of this American house intact and standing.

Roger | 11.6.08 @ 7:11AM

Well now, that's a less than cheerful way to start the morning, Oh, I guess it was mourning. Nevermind.

Richard James Thompson| 11.6.08 @ 8:04AM

Obama's new national police force which HE says will be as strong as the military, will insure a just and fair election in 2012.

Angelo| 11.6.08 @ 8:08AM

It certainly sounds like you are describing the birth of a totalitarian state withe the MSM as the propaganda machine. Scarry stuff!!

john| 11.6.08 @ 8:15AM

The author forgot to mention statehood for D.C. and possibly Puerto Rico which would ensure two or four more Rat senators in perpetuity.

Henry Lazarus| 11.6.08 @ 8:43AM

I've read a few books on the early years in Germany after Hitler was selected as Prime Minister and have had nightmares of the same thing happening here. If I'm right you will see war crime tribunals against the neocons (jews) who worked for the Bush administration.

Anthony| 11.6.08 @ 8:48AM

Quin, I'm not so sure that we conservatives are as unmindful of the current dire situation as you think. We have, afterall, been watching and commenting on this slow motion train wreck for quite some time, especially after Obama obtained the nomination. We have acknowledged how the Left has managed to control vast parts of our society and government. I think however you overestimate the ability of the Left to control itself. Yes, some of your analysis is very accurate, especially the part of how they will attack talk radio, but never underestimate the inability of the rabid left to overplay its hand. They will eventually succumb to their hatred and anger, which has been boiling just below the surface for decades. Yes, smarter and calmer radicals will try to control the mob, but to no avail. Watch Reid, Pelosi & Schumer come charging right out of the box. Thugocracy is in their blood, they can't help themselves, and we will respond accordingly.

JVB| 11.6.08 @ 8:48AM

you left out our military in Iraq. I foresee changes in the ROE's (rules of engagement) on the horizon. It's going to get increasingly difficult for those in harms way.

Obama will render our military impotent, effectively removing them from the fight by simply changing the ROE's. As conditions deteriorate he will announce our presence in Iraq is a failure, which we should never have engaged in and begin the withdrawal.

He will turn success into failure just to be able to say I told you so and at the same time demoralize our military, not to mention the thousands of casualties this will cause, both American and Iraqi.

think about how easy this will be to pull off

Grissie| 11.6.08 @ 8:49AM

Obamas first call, chief of staff Rahm Emanuel speaks volumes. According to Emanuel theres no one like himself. He is truly a "Pitbull Polititian". Talk about example of "Thugacracy Illinois Politics." His self-centered, ambitious,
self opinion is no secret. Now the question must be asked will Emanuel accept the position ? Rumors flying, Emanuels spokesman denies his bosses acceptance. With Obama now out of the way in their home state the door is wide open for more stellar opportunities from whence he came. The left media singing Emanuels praises should be enough warning for any centris to die-hard conservative. The Obama cabinet selections will tell the tale. Be forever watchful.

Bob| 11.6.08 @ 8:53AM

By the way, you forgot gerrymandering -- reversing what the GOP did several years ago. The problem with this argument is that I heard the same ranting from the left when Republicans did this. The GOP fell into the trap -- absolute power absolutely corrupts. The Democrats now have the opportunity to do the same. If they do, the balance of power might change. If they don't, and are as disciplined as the Obama campaign, then the GOP is in severe trouble.

The big story, IMO, this year is that Obama really did run an issues based campaign and not one based on interest group pandering. The Republican party is still one of interest groups -- social conservatives, fiscal conservatives, and national security hawks. As the party gets smaller and loses fiscal and national security segments, the intolerant social right becomes an impenetrable barrier and forces the downward spiral of the party.

Quin, Obama is as smart as Carter, as disciplined as LBJ, as politically adept as Clinton, as cool as FDR, and as good a communicator as Reagan. He is probably the best read of any President and understands history. The problem for you and the other GOPer's is not that Obama may be an Alinskyite, but that he governs to the center and prevents Congress from going hard left. He will then have succeeded in destroying the Republican Party.

I would recommend to you and the other party faithful to concentrate less on demonizing the left, and more on putting forth the principles of Republican governance including smaller government, non-interventionism, social libertarian views, and intellectual heft. Rush and Hannity will continue demonization (which hurts the party) because they're in the business of getting ratings, not governance.

I joined this party more than 40 years ago and don't recognize the hate and intolerance I see in it today. You don't win over the majority of people with hate and demonization -- you win them over with policy, vision, and communication.

Ernie| 11.6.08 @ 8:53AM

Then the questions are these: how much do we, as conservatives, value free speech, the practice of our religious faiths, the freedom to teach our children our values, and the ability to self-determine what we will become and how? If we valued those things as much as liberals have valued their acquisition of power, then their is reason for hope and optimism. If we shy away from confrontation and live in fear, then we deserve all the left will pile upon us.

Becky| 11.6.08 @ 9:17AM

I've also had an appreciation of history, and it is interesting that we can make correlations. Germany had a poor economic climate bringing Hitler to power. The youth were vital to his plan. Liberals want universal preschool and mandatory volunteerism as part of a school cirriculum. Scientists were held hostage by recieving their funding from the state. Smoking was banned. Do we need a Gastapo as Obama is suggesting by way of civilian security? I heard a German radio commentator say recently that Germany has suffered from "collective shame" (not guilt) over the events leading up to and including WWII.

Watch the fellow travelers, especially the scientists and journalists that support this administration. I have a strong gut feeling that the most well respected class of citizens we have today are scientists. The conventional wisdom is their views are based on pure science. I say bunk. Especially concerning global warming and enery issues, the momentum is pushed by political pressure, and most of the scientists are trying to make the science fit the political, because first of all, survival is the most important human need, and scientists want to survive too.

Remember VonBraun's famous words about not caring if he went to work for Uncle Joe or Uncle Sam after the war as long as it was a rich uncle? It is still true today for most people in the sciences. It is not like you can graduate with a physics degree and open up a little physics business.

The other scientific boondoogle we have fallen for is stem cell research. If it had a good chance of succeeding, the private sector would be all over it, yet in state upon state, this is being asked to be financed by public money. We just passed an initiative in Michigan, and guess what? It will provide jobs, government funded into perpetuity jobs. Another "hope" con job.

dudette| 11.6.08 @ 10:09AM

I propose we adopt Alinsky principles to use for OUR purposes. If they are playing dirty we have to be able sling it back and not necessarily fall on the sword as so many Pubbies have done in the past. I wish DeLay were back in town.

Bob| 11.6.08 @ 10:09AM

To Ernie and Becky,

Why are you afraid of intelligence, tolerance, and education? I know hundreds of scientists, and they do not let politics interfere with their research. In fact, most of them disdain politics. Did either of you major in science in college and grad school?

You don't really want religious freedom, you want us all to follow your Christian beliefs. What about the freedom of Muslims, Hindus, Jews, and atheists to practice what they believe? In true religious freedom we should welcome a Muslim or Hindu President as much as a Christian one.

Comparing Obama to Hitler is the height of bigotry and intolerance.

We just found out today that your dear Sarah Palin did not know that Africa was a continent -- she thought it was a country. She didn't want Sununu on the stage with her because he didn't align with her religious beliefs. This is what your ideology and anti-intellectual views bring with it.

We should be getting religion out of our politics and bringing in the best and brightest to our party. There are true policy differences between Republicans and Democrats including the size of government, fiscal conservatism, a strong emphasis on national security. Neither party has a lock on either ethics or truth. If you continue to demonize your opponents, you will only hurt yourselves.

steven| 3.19.10 @ 2:37AM

feel free to leave america we will suffer here with our own cruel way of our lord jesus christ

Paul| 11.6.08 @ 10:12AM

A few words of wisdom from Thomas Jefferson that may be needed to address the situations mentioned in this article.

"The oppressed should rebel, and they will continue to rebel and raise disturbance until their civil rights are fully restored to them and all partial distinctions, exclusions and incapacitations are removed." --Thomas Jefferson: Notes on Religion, 1776. Papers 1:548

"As revolutionary instruments (when nothing but revolution will cure the evils of the State) [secret societies] are necessary and indispensable, and the right to use them is inalienable by the people." --Thomas Jefferson to William Duane, 1803. FE 8:256

WallyG| 11.6.08 @ 10:20AM

After four decades of lib education in our schools that glorified communism and socialism and its methods our younger generation has no clue, knowledge or point of reference to how horrible these kinds of regimes are. The Clinton era gave us the first glimpse, an Obama thugocracy will be a prime example of the reasons there was a first American Revolution and why a Thomas Jefferson put these words into the Declaration of Independence:"...that whenever any form of government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the right of the people to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their safety and happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn(sic), that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such government, and to provide new guards for their future security..."

Rich| 11.6.08 @ 10:32AM

as good as communicator as Reagan ? thats a funny one.

the only thing that concerns me is the part about the fillibuster. Can someone tell me how realistic is that they can do that?

Kelly| 11.6.08 @ 10:41AM

Bob:

Why all the hostility against us - you seem quite happy with the election of Obama. Are you sure you're not a liberal in disguise? The left still seem to harbor anger towards Palin even though she lost - isn't that demonizing your opponents. You seem a little confused.

As for Obama being smart as Carter, let's see if a number of Americans would like to be hostages in Iran for 444 days - that was real smart, eh? Or what about LBJ - who ran up against frustration over Vietnam; too much federal spending and taxation; his Great Society programs - need I go on. Yes, I do - Clinton being politically adept I might be able to agree with, however the fact that he will always be remembered as lying under oath and "define sex" says it all. Now, let's get to the one that Obama is somewhat similar to and that is Reagan. Yes, Obama is a good communicator like Reagan although Reagan had a sense of humor which I doubt Obama has - he doesn't accept criticism well, he just gets rid of it or has the MSM do it for him. Yes, communication and transparency as something Obama is really good at (hint, that was sarcasm).

And as for the Obama governing from the center, his first cabinet position goes to Rahm Emanual - need I say anymore?? This is definitely change we can believe in.

I would love to address the rest of your concerns or complaints, however I must get to work and save what little I can for those who are waiting with their hands out. I'm not afraid of intelligence, tolerance, and education - be not afraid, nor let you heart be troubled. Pope John Paul II was right, but are you.

Bob| 11.6.08 @ 10:44AM

Wally, if you don't like public education, send your kids to private schools. Also convince your friends to get an education and teach. If you don't value education, you can't change it. Remember that heroes of the right are not examples of educated people -- like Rush and Hannity. In addition, people like McCain and Bush brag about their poor grades. There are a number of highly educated conservatives who should be the examples -- not those who spread hate and divisiveness. Frum, Bennett, Will, Brooks, Buckley are great examples of intelligent conservatives. The fact that you guys don't support people like that for high office is the problem. As for me, I value education and success thereto. That's why I initially supported Romney and couldn't support McCain/Palin. I cannot support those who will not be educated examples to our children. Leadership should be by example -- not complaint.

ray| 11.6.08 @ 10:47AM

Concerning the Fairness Doctrine,I would ask all members that want to enact it again,the following:"you admit that in Congress there is freedom to discuss,ponder,on all subjects,and to voice disapproval when they are in Session Debates,or votes,so there is complete freedom of speech,and you would call that fairness for all Members to be able to freely discuss matters,then why are you wanting the free citizens,the public,the citizenry,to not be able to have free talk radio,or free internet,those that are supposed to be as equal as you are,why are you wanting to muzzle them with the Fairness Doctrine,if we are as to be equal as members of Congress to be able to speak freely among themselves in debates,then the citizenry should also have the same Right to speak freely with one another on radio,or communicate freely on the internet.,should we?

terence| 3.26.10 @ 10:58AM

Now, while you moaning about something about which you know next to nothing, let me point out our public university system is the envy of the world.
acarosWe're doing some things quite well, thank you.

John| 11.6.08 @ 10:49AM

Typical Quin. Do you have anything new to add? At all? Your contributions, from what I can discern, don't provide any depth, any insight, any thoughtfulness--only mercurial rants and doomsday reminders.

Well, thanks, but no thanks. If you want to throw yourself off a bridge, fine. After reading hacks like you, there are probably a good many others who want to dispatch themselves, also. But some of us don't think it's all over, so please, if you don't have anything constructive or new whatsoever to add to the conversation, stop retreading this crap.

We get it. Uncle!

Bob| 11.6.08 @ 11:04AM

Kelly, I have a lot of hostility against religious intolerents especially because I have personally faced anti-Semitism from that group. I would have liked to see Romney rather than Obama, but we don't need more idiots like McCain/Palin in the White House. Bush was enough.

You certainly missed my points regarding Obama's qualities and the totality of the remarks. Each of the Presidents I mentioned had specific strengths but not the entire package. That was the point. Obama does have the package and will thus govern to the center. I'd rather it be center right rather than center left, but I'll live with it.

Regarding Emanuel, it is clear that you don't know a lot about government. The Chief of Staff is not a Cabinet position, it is a gatekeeper/organizer for the President. This is more administrative and less a policy position. In fact, some Presidents have not named a Chief of Staff. You also have not studied up on Emanuel. He has worked in the White House, is respected by both sides of the isle, knows how to get things done, and is very close to Obama. This provides absolutely no indication of how Obama will govern. For that, we will have to see his Cabinet picks. These will be the heads of governmental agencies and have significant policy influence. As my judge of Obama's willingness to govern from the center, I look for at least 1/3 of the Cabinet to be Republicans. As far as I know, there haven't been more than 1 or 2 cabinet members of any Presidency in the opposing party for anyone in our history.

I see you used the Hannity quote as your closing statement. I listen to Hannity and I also listen to Olberman. Try it, you might learn something.

My anger is at my party which has lost its way and has become anti-intellectual, intolerant, hateful and has stepped over the line regarding church and state.

John M| 11.6.08 @ 11:08AM

Using the courts to suppress dissent is exactly what Hitler did to consolidate his power soon after he was elected. Like the Germans, we have been socially conditioned to obey the law so that once the judiciary is taken over and corrupted those in power can pretty can much do whatever they want. As far as banning guns, I don't think this will be attempted directly, at least not soon. It will be far easier to raise the excise tax on guns and ammunition to a point where it becomes prohibitively expensive, which I've read is on their agenda.

J David| 11.6.08 @ 11:17AM

Don't forget ENDA legislation, which, once passed, will be used by the Supremes at the national level to overturn the 27 state constitutions' bans on queer marriage(as well as then levying taxes on all churches/Christian radio and media that do not hire or accept participation in their organizations by practicing homosexuals). The dangers in which the Republic now finds itself (with the active participation/enabling of RINOs) are deep and dire indeed.

HiddenPaw| 11.6.08 @ 11:21AM

Abort the ObamaNation!

dukas| 11.6.08 @ 11:26AM

If you have not read ‘Prairie Fire’ by Bill Ayers read it and weep. zombietime.com . Print it up and pass it around. This is Obama’s Constitution. It spells out how Ayers and Dohrn help set up Black Liberation Theology, Acorn and it blueprints getting communist professors into schools to indoctrinate our children and how to quietly plant moles in our electoral system. In Ayers’ own words, how they plan to destroy America from the inside. All there for an evening’s read. The left have become brain dead since they replaced Christ’s salvation with their political ideology.
Trouble? You ain’t seen nothing yet.

Bob| 11.6.08 @ 11:28AM

SOCIAL CONSERVATIVES ARE THE REAL RINOS!!!!

By the way, the ENDA legislation exempts small businesses, churches, and the military... I've seen many marriages between a man and a woman that are very queer. In fact, more than half of them end in divorce.

JC| 11.6.08 @ 11:34AM

I bet they will try to tilt the system in their favor JUST LIKE WE DID. Remember Grover Norquist and Tom Delay's infamous "K Street Project" that was supposed to keep the Republicans in power "for a generation"? The best laid plans of mice and men....

JC| 11.6.08 @ 11:35AM

RH| 11.6.08 @ 11:36AM

I do find some amusement in the circumstance that the Republican faithful see this as some sort of sports game where they take the role of gracious loser and then go back to the training camp and practice even harder for the next game. I simply do not know what it is going to take to make them and most other Americans realize that the whole system has changed. This is not something that can be rectified by electing a few individuals with grand expectations that they can "make a difference and bring change to Washington". The whole political system is corrupt to the core, all three branches. It has been massaged over time to be self-protecting and insulated. The peons are told that this is a nation "of the people" and that their votes and participation in the political process is what shapes our nation. BS!!! 535 individual, power hungry, narcissisists and their minions are in absolute control of over 300 million citizens.

Now we have no longer any illusion of a free Costitutional Republic, we have pure unadulterated Progressive/Socialism if not Marxism. We have a media that is basically the Press Office for those in control. A military that is marginalized via the budget process and political gerrymandering. And the new administration wants to form a Civil Security Force equal in size and funding to our beleagered military. If you people have not seen all this before, and it's results, then you were not paying attention in history class.

I am simply too old to go to war but am fully prepaired to fight since this war has been brought right to my doorstep. I await that "Paul Revere" type that will shout out a "Call to arms , The Socialists are coming! The Socialists are coming!"
Now, Americans are going to appreciate the real reason and purpose , in all their wisdom, our founders left us with the 2nd Amendment.

George| 11.6.08 @ 11:46AM

Many of the folks on the far Left were convinced that George W. Bush and John Cheney were going to suspend the constitution and create a fascist Christian Theocracy. Hundreds of thousands of people believed that. They really did! And I'm sure this generated needless fear and anxiety on their part. (Last I heard, Bush and Cheney were still on schedule to comfortably retire in January -- each with a nice six figure pension. If Bush and Cheney want to create a Theocracy, they need to act quickly.)

Now I find myself worrying about a repressive Obama Thugocracy, complete with a national Gestapo-like police force. Am I becoming just as crazy as the conspiracy kooks on the Left? Probably.

I think it's time to go on a fishing trip before the lakes freeze over. While the Autumn colors are still beautiful.

phillip m| 11.6.08 @ 12:12PM

Bob - Hi.
I'm Polish American and my fiance is Ukrainian. During the winter of 1932 - 1933 the Soviet Communists and when I mean Soviet Communists I mean Jew heavy Soviet Communists stole at gunpoint all wealth and food
from the Ukrainians who they felt weren't handing their wealth and food over fast enough. Eight million people perished over that winter because of that action. Over the years, every American child has been taught about the Holocaust but not about the Holodomor. Why did this happen? Everyone knows why this happened. People see through this right away. This is where anti Semitism comes from.

Bob - What is tolerance exactly? That's a trick question. Tolerance doesn't have a definition at least one that lasts from day to day. Quite frankly, if i ask you on Monday what tolerance is, I'll get one answer. If I ask you on Tuesday, I'll get another definition and the the real beauty of the matter. Tolerance? Last time I checked Hindus were burning the homes of Christians and Muslims doing the same and cutting off our heads. You just want Christians to be tolerant, but not any one else.

Bob - Robert Mugabe is an intellectual. He has a Ph.d. He's also the world's greatest anti racist. This is world you have created for us and why we and the rest of humanity have tos top you. If you are in our party, please leave.

Free Bill White| 11.6.08 @ 12:26PM

Couldn't happen to a nicer, more deserving bunch of neo-kahns.

Marc Jeric| 11.6.08 @ 12:27PM

Obama and his ACORN thugs remind one of Hitler and his brown shirts. Does anyone know the real name of Hitler's party? It was "Deutsche Nazional-Sozialistische Arbeiter Partei" - that's "German National-Socialist Workers Party" in English. And those self-called "liberals" call us conservatives "Nazis"? "Liberals" are in fact the revolutionary marxists led by a new Lenin from Chicago corrupt political swamps.

stphdys| 11.6.08 @ 12:38PM

Nice try. We already knew that you repubs would be laying the ground work for the general public to over look the thuguery held in your voting machine schemes that actually can turn election with as many as 4 districts per state, and filter that info to Tennesse and back to them with fewer votes. That's fraud. You people have already tried to dumb down your constituants which isn't hard to do considering so many people wer willing to cast their vote for Palin. We will continue to bring your treachery
to lite.

opal`| 11.6.08 @ 1:13PM

Dear stphdys,

Did you learn any grammar or spelling at your public school? Your 2 unintelligible posts were perfect reinforcements for my continuing to self educate our large and ever growing brood of children.

Quite simply put, there is very little hope for the conservative movement in the future as long as people continue to place their children in a public school system that was set up, in order to teach children to become passive, unquestioning vessels-the perfect workers for Rockefeller and Carnegie. Now that system is being controlled by Marxists of the Alinsky type, who want nothing more than to start the brainwashing at ever younger ages in order to perfect the process in preschool. The only hope for this country's future is in the several million children who are home educated, and allowed the freedom of thought that the public school system so completely suppresses.

opal| 11.6.08 @ 1:14PM

correction....
The only hope for this country's future are in the several million children who are home educated,

Frank Citizen| 11.6.08 @ 1:21PM

I still believe in the U.S. Constitution and for what it stands for. Its the corruption of mankind that is bring this country down. We need to turn back to God and the Bible.

Tom Paine| 11.6.08 @ 1:38PM

Mr Hillyer

I'd be interested to hear what you had to say about Todd Palin's membership in a truly radical and traitorous organization -- one that actually endorses secession.

State secession is to date the most profound act of treason in our history. The last time it happened, you'll recall, about three quarters of a million Americans died fighting over the issue.

The weird bigotry and hysterical ignorance coming from the far right fringes is boring and depressing, but not a very big threat to the growing consensus that the government needs to act in concert to pull this country out of what could be the worst recession in many decades.

Gretchen| 11.6.08 @ 1:44PM

If Obama's selection of Rahm Emanuel is anything to go by, then heaven help the conservatives in this country! One can't help but wonder just how long The American Spectator, The Heritage Foundation, The American Enterpeise Institute, and, yes, the Republican Party itself will be permitted to continue to exist. How long it will be before they are ruthlessly extirpated, and the USA becomes the USSSA (the United Soviet Socialist States of Amerika)!

Tom Paine| 11.6.08 @ 1:47PM

Opal --

If you knew anything about public education you'd know that tens of thousands of hard working Americans give their lives to educate young people in our schools.

Our society has sloughed the functions of nearly every cultural and societal institution onto the schools.

If boring ideological hacks like you would get out of the way, and schools were to be funded like our future depended on them (which it does), we'd be doing a great deal better.

Now, while you moaning about something about which you know next to nothing, let me point out our public university system is the envy of the world. We're doing some things quite well, thank you.

But grade schools need to be retooled, refunded, and reformed for the 21st century.

Yesterday we elected a president capable of doing that. And no we're not going to start teaching Creationism or any other superstitions in the schools. You can do that on your own in sunday school if you wish.

Anthony| 11.6.08 @ 1:48PM

I was seeing Alinsky Red (pun intended) yesterday after Lisa Fabrizio's article with Rose and Brokaw musing about how little they know about the man they created and got elected. Today on Rush, listening to them and Ethan Thomas of Newseek, whom you remember was removed from CNN, I believe, for outright lies about happenings in Iraq, including his delusional reporting that reporters were being fired upon by American troops. (oh, if only it were true!!) Funny how this nut job ends up back in the MSM at Newweek. Talk about a clique of elites!! Anyway, these Alinsky dupes covered for Obama and refused to report what we've been talking about for months, yet the MSM looks down on talk radio and the internet. These whores shilled for Obama, covered for Obama and attacked others on his behalf. If they weren't covered by the First Amendment, they should all be sued for journalistic malpractice. But we can perform our own justice, and have, we need to turn off the t.v's and cancel all subscriptions to national publications that are responsible for all this. Brokaw: If you monitor conservative web sites, know this: You and your leftist media ilk are a disgrace.

Tom Paine| 11.6.08 @ 1:48PM

Opal --

If you knew anything about public education you'd know that tens of thousands of hard working Americans give their lives to educate young people in our schools.

Our society has sloughed the functions of nearly every cultural and societal institution onto the schools.

If boring ideological hacks like you would get out of the way, and schools were to be funded like our future depended on them (which it does), we'd be doing a great deal better.

Now, while you moaning about something about which you know next to nothing, let me point out our public university system is the envy of the world. We're doing some things quite well, thank you.

But grade schools need to be retooled, refunded, and reformed for the 21st century.

Tom Paine| 11.6.08 @ 1:50PM

Gretchen --

You're either stupid or paranoid.

You honestly believe Obama will try to abolish the Republican party.

What a joke. No wonder you people lost the election. The American people are sick of idiots running this country into the ground.

For the others still willing to listen to reason:

I assure you the Republican party and conservative movement are going to be just fine under an Obama administration. You have nothing to fear.

Tom Paine| 11.6.08 @ 1:50PM

Gretchen --

You're either stupid or paranoid.

You honestly believe Obama will try to abolish the Republican party.

What a joke. No wonder you people lost the election. The American people are sick of idiots running this country into the ground.

For the others still willing to listen to reason:

I assure you the Republican party and conservative movement are going to be just fine under an Obama administration. You have nothing to fear.

Tom Paine| 11.6.08 @ 1:50PM

Gretchen --

You're either stupid or paranoid.

You honestly believe Obama will try to abolish the Republican party.

What a joke. No wonder you people lost the election. The American people are sick of idiots running this country into the ground.

For the others still willing to listen to reason:

I assure you the Republican party and conservative movement are going to be just fine under an Obama administration. You have nothing to fear.

Tom Paine| 11.6.08 @ 1:55PM

DD Supporter

You enjoy yourself at that David Duke rally, brother. Do you guys have to pay for those sheets you wear, or do they hand them out for free?

Will you be burning a cross, or just holding a good old fashion lynch mob?

Hey, you'll be in Memphis?

Isn't that where that Elvis Presley guy is from? You know, that Elvis, he's trying to get our young people to listen to that negro music.

Before you know it, they'll be dancing just like black people and even wanted to get married to them. Imagine. A black man marrying your daughter. Unthinkable.

You David Duke people ought to do something about that while you're up there in Memphis.

George Connolly| 11.6.08 @ 2:01PM

phillip m

I'm glad that you are a Republican. I feel honored to know you are on my team. You make excellent points and make them clearly. I agree entirely.

Quin Hillyer| 11.6.08 @ 2:06PM

Until we can take it off the site, for the record, I utterly denounce that response post by the David Duke supporter. I spent three years of my life working in a fairly prominent position in the fight against that neo-Nazi. Please do not pollute this space with his hateful message or name.

Katie| 11.6.08 @ 2:18PM

Why can't a discussion of facts ever be made without drawing in race?

J.J. Sefton| 11.6.08 @ 2:19PM

Aside from the ass-clownery going on (DD supporter), this is serious. If the nightmare scenario plays out - a liberal dictatorship - there will be a civil war, and most if not all of the military backing the side that supports the 2nd amendment (post it's abolition).

I do tend to think that their own in-fighting will be their undoing, hopefully no later than 2010.

Sean| 11.6.08 @ 2:26PM

Tom Paine,
You're right, we will be just fine under an Obama administration. His socialist policies are going to energize us like you wish Obama had energized the Dems. Have fun continuing to perpetuate his lies about governing from the middle.

Bob| 11.6.08 @ 2:28PM

Philip --

I did study the holodomor in school -- PUBLIC SCHOOL. You hate the Jews and probably also blame the Jews for Jesus' death. (You sounds like Hitler, don't you). Most historians estimate the death total at about half that my relatives suffered in the holocaust, but a life is a life.

The bigotry you have against non-Christian religions is an example of the intolerance we don't need in the Republican party or the U.S. To set the record straight, Hitler claimed that he was a Christian -- just like you. You may want to argue otherwise, but this came directly from him. So please don't give me any of this nonsense that Christianity is any better than any other religion. (I seem to remember the Crusades and the Inquisition as well.)

Philip, YOU are the problem with the Republican party and the true RINO.

You are welcome to leave it and start the "Christian Conservative Party".

Anthony| 11.6.08 @ 2:30PM

Yes,, Gretchen, fear not, the Republicans and Conservatives will thrive under Obama, so says Obama's apparent aide- de -camp of Obama's National Civilian Security Force, Tom Paine. Yes, Obama has enlisted Comrade Paine to assure us at TAS that all will be well. I don't know about you all, but the warm and fuzzy feelings haven't quite kicked in. But Tom, who has recently joined us at TAS, tells us all is well, so why should we worry? After all, Tom does speak for Obama, right? No Gretchen, contrary to comrade Paine's ad hominem attacks on you, you are neither paraniod nor stupid. Comrade Paine however, may be suffering from a bit of projection. I bet he can't wait to get the official brown shirt and jackboot attire of the NCSF.

elle| 11.6.08 @ 2:31PM

Bob, or should I say Boob? -
I susupected you as a fraud from your initial post; that suspicion was cemented in your subsequent posts. No one who has truly been a republican for 40 years as you claim would even think of using the word "demonization" in conjunction with Limbaugh and Hannity, much less "hatred" and "intolerance" when referring to the party as a whole. Using the word "queer" when referring to heterosexuals was the final give-away. When will you wacky liberals ever learn that we know our own and can spot you a mile away?

Bob| 11.6.08 @ 2:34PM

Sean, you don't seem to understand that we are already a socialistic republic. Socialism was introduced with social security, medicare, progressive tax rates and public education. If you are against socialism, then you also need to get rid of those programs. Are you really against socialism?

Tongue in cheek aside, when you discuss socialism without understanding it, then you show why the Republican party is declining. Please get an education....

Bob| 11.6.08 @ 2:42PM

Elle, I can assure you I am a registered Republican. I see you can't read very well -- I indicated that BOTH sides demonize the other. And yes, both Rush and Hannity constantly demonize Obama and other Democrats. They also demonized McCain early on. That is their "schtick" and you lemmings fall right onto it. On the other side, Olberman does many of the same things but a bit less name calling. They both show levels of intolerance -- and so do you.

I used the word "queer" as a tongue in cheek response to someone elses post....

A lot of us have problems with the Republican Party today. I'm in the same group as Colin Powell, Ken Duberstein, Lincoln Chafee, Susan Collins, etc. Please stop being so intolerant.

Dale| 11.6.08 @ 2:43PM

Bob,

Your posts are very readable and sound, but I would be careful about claiming to know how Obama will govern when you have only a vague idea, at best, who he is and what he believes. I am of the opinion that it is better to be cautious, don't discount the person before he/she has had the opportunity to demonstrate what they are going to do, kind of like trust but verify.

Weave| 11.6.08 @ 2:44PM

We have two functional parties in this cuntry (sic): the Slightly More Socialistic Party (aka the Dems) and the Slightly Less Socialistic Party (aka the Reps.) On Tuesday, ALL the SLSPs got spanked, all the way down to state and local levels. I think one blogger put it best: The guy who was not the Republican beat the ghost of Dubya.

Harry B| 11.6.08 @ 2:45PM

These are the Rules For Radicals right out of the Saul Alinsky Playbook. Look for the Obama Administration to use them as their playbook also.

Some of these rules are ruthless, but they work. Here are the rules to be aware of:
RULE 1: "Power is not only what you have, but what the enemy thinks you have." Power is derived from 2 main sources - money and people. "Have-Nots" must build power from flesh and blood. (These are two things of which there is a plentiful supply. Government and corporations always have a difficult time appealing to people, and usually do so almost exclusively with economic arguments.)
RULE 2: "Never go outside the expertise of your people." It results in confusion, fear and retreat. Feeling secure adds to the backbone of anyone. (Organizations under attack wonder why radicals don't address the "real" issues. This is why. They avoid things with which they have no knowledge.)
RULE 3: "Whenever possible, go outside the expertise of the enemy." Look for ways to increase insecurity, anxiety and uncertainty. (This happens all the time. Watch how many organizations under attack are blind-sided by seemingly irrelevant arguments that they are then forced to address.)
RULE 4: "Make the enemy live up to its own book of rules." If the rule is that every letter gets a reply, send 30,000 letters. You can kill them with this because no one can possibly obey all of their own rules. (This is a serious rule. The besieged entity's very credibility and reputation is at stake, because if activists catch it lying or not living up to its commitments, they can continue to chip away at the damage.)
RULE 5: "Ridicule is man's most potent weapon." There is no defense. It's irrational. It's infuriating. It also works as a key pressure point to force the enemy into concessions. (Pretty crude, rude and mean, huh? They want to create anger and fear.)
RULE 6: "A good tactic is one your people enjoy." They'll keep doing it without urging and come back to do more. They're doing their thing, and will even suggest better ones. (Radical activists, in this sense, are no different that any other human being. We all avoid "un-fun" activities, and but we revel at and enjoy the ones that work and bring results.)
RULE 7: "A tactic that drags on too long becomes a drag." Don't become old news. (Even radical activists get bored. So to keep them excited and involved, organizers are constantly coming up with new tactics.)
RULE 8: "Keep the pressure on. Never let up." Keep trying new things to keep the opposition off balance. As the opposition masters one approach, hit them from the flank with something new. (Attack, attack, attack from all sides, never giving the reeling organization a chance to rest, regroup, recover and re-strategize.)
RULE 9: "The threat is usually more terrifying than the thing itself." Imagination and ego can dream up many more consequences than any activist. (Perception is reality. Large organizations always prepare a worst-case scenario, something that may be furthest from the activists' minds. The upshot is that the organization will expend enormous time and energy, creating in its own collective mind the direst of conclusions. The possibilities can easily poison the mind and result in demoralization.)
RULE 10: "If you push a negative hard enough, it will push through and become a positive." Violence from the other side can win the public to your side because the public sympathizes with the underdog. (Unions used this tactic. Peaceful [albeit loud] demonstrations during the heyday of unions in the early to mid-20th Century incurred management's wrath, often in the form of violence that eventually brought public sympathy to their side.)
RULE 11: "The price of a successful attack is a constructive alternative." Never let the enemy score points because you're caught without a solution to the problem. (Old saw: If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the problem. Activist organizations have an agenda, and their strategy is to hold a place at the table, to be given a forum to wield their power. So, they have to have a compromise solution.)
RULE 12: Pick the target, freeze it, personalize it, and polarize it." Cut off the support network and isolate the target from sympathy. Go after people and not institutions; people hurt faster than institutions. (This is cruel, but very effective. Direct, personalized criticism and ridicule works.)

Crippy | 11.6.08 @ 2:55PM

Maybe that's why the Obama supports were waving the hammer and sickle after his election. Plans for a new flag?
http://crippy.me/2008/11/05/obama-supporters-wave-soviet-flag.aspx

Bob| 11.6.08 @ 2:56PM

Dale, I agree with you 100%. I am overstating the case a bit to provide balance against those who have the opposite view. We will find out how Obama will govern, but if you notice, today he got to Pelosi and she issued a statement about governing from the center. I'm betting that he understands history and knows that governing too far to the left will have disasterous consequences. He will have a mind-heart conflict, since his natural tendency would be to go too far left. But he talks about what people will say about his presidency in 100 years and that will force his mind to the center.

We'll find out how serious he is with the selection of his cabinet. I'm betting at least 3 Republicans will be there including Gates and two others. I expect Richardson to be the Sec State. Furthermore, I'm expecting he'll treat the Democratic and Republican representatives equally.

I could well be wrong, but I've studied the guy and believe him to be a pragmatist.

elle| 11.6.08 @ 2:57PM

Poor Boob -
Thanks for "edumacating" me that pointing out someone is a liberal is being intolerant. I was just following your lead. If I give you my mailing address will you send me a copy of your extra special dictionary of redefinitions?

Bob| 11.6.08 @ 2:59PM

Harry B -- I thought that was the Rush Limbaugh field manual.... Read through it again, you'll see...

JPP| 11.6.08 @ 3:00PM

Exactly right. Most people do not even know who Saul Alinsky was and what Barry Hussein's relationship with Alinsky devotees is.

Barry is a radical who uses smooth, calming words to spread his agenda. What is that agenda? Well to put it simply. Big, Bigger, Biggest GOVERNMENT. The "masses" are best "ruled" by a small clique of "experts" in government.

That's what many in Europe and around the world believe. The Spirit of '76, the American Revolution is all but kaput.

Kristen| 11.6.08 @ 3:01PM

To Bob:
Tolerance is the fruit of indifference.

To Opal:
Much agreed. "The educational philosophy of one generation will be the governmental philosophy of the next." We are reaping what we have sowed in a public school system founded by men who were admittedly socialists and whose goal it was to undermine the principles of liberty through the classroom. The ONLY way conservatism will ever truly win is if we educate our little boys and girls in the Judeo-Christian principles our forefathers crafted into our founding documents and institutions. We must employ an offensive battle while we continue on the defensive front. "Will" we do it? It is never a matter of "can." If great desire and passion are guided with knowledge and moved by discipline, we can. But will we?

And Mr. Paine
Public schools do teach some subjects well, and many students become great citizens. But, we can always do better, and money is not the answer. So many taxpayer dollars are wasted in our school system. (As we have all witnessed, the government has issues handling anything in a fiscally responsible manner.) More important than math and grammar are the philosophies and principles we impart to our children—that is my greatest concern. It is obvious that we differ in our ideology.

Tom Paine| 11.6.08 @ 3:11PM

Folks,

I am your true liberal guest at the Am. Spect. I try to be polite and remember I'm only a guest. I enjoy reading many of your posts.

As a liberal, I fear the following:

1. You run a candidate like McCain (independently minded war hero) who chooses a conservative Democrat or a liberal, female Republican as a running mate. If you guys had done that this time, I'd be crying in my chablis right now, and you all'd be hootin' and celebratin' like a mo fo.

2. You expel the anti-intellectual faux-populists from your midst. The people who bray proudly that they don't read newspapers, that they hate journalists and scientists, and so on. William F Buckley was an educated, cultured, and culturally elitist man, and yet he -- together with Milton Friedman (an academic) a few others -- founded your movement.

3. Related to #2 -- you expel the numbskulls, Neanderthals, and nitwits from your midst: the people who honk and hoot and hoot about Obama being a "terrorist" or who talk about carpet bombing random Muslim countries that they couldn't even find on a map. The American people saw through that nonsense this time, and they will next time, too.

4. You demote Rush Limbaugh and Sean Hannity in favor of David Brooks, George F Will, and any number of the more thoughtful conservative writers on your side. If you want to become the modern incarnation of the John Birch Society, go right ahead -- Obama'll have nothing to fear in 2012.

Best of luck to you, either way.

John McCain's concession speech was one of the best, gutsiest, most honorable speeches I've ever heard a politician give. You should be proud your party ran the best man it had.

Dale| 11.6.08 @ 3:14PM

Bob,

That is interesting that you have studied Obama. Other than two books he supposedly wrote about himself, I don't know of any third party source material that would provide enough information on Obama to come to the conclusion that he is a pragmatist.

Bob| 11.6.08 @ 3:15PM

Kristen...

See this site and see your statement discussed:

http://www.religioustolerance.org/rel_tol8.htm

We all tend to define statements in our own image. You see religious tolerance as bad because it means that your specific religion could not then be deemed as better. However, our Constitution protects religious freedom and is thus tolerant of all religions. That is the difference between a "Christian Nation" and a "Nation of mostly Christians". The problem with people who believe in intolerance as it relates to their own religion is that they've now headed down that slippery slope that justifies intolerance in everything. If you take that to negative images, then it is called demonization.

Intolerance may have validity as it pertains to your religion, but has no place in the public square.

calcasieu| 11.6.08 @ 3:19PM

sounds like bob is projecting his own intolerance - religious and otherwise - onto others here

Granny3| 11.6.08 @ 3:21PM

DD Supporter,
You have the right to say what you like. However, don't expect anyone to agree with you or like anything that you say. I am surprised you are commenting here when most of our citizens despise the KKK. I spent some time in the early 60's (before the destructo children ruined everything) protesting for blacks to have the same opportunities as everyone else in this country. I would have preferred the first President of color to be a conservative, but it is a history-making decision. White people do not need David Dukes to speak for us.

Tom Paine
You needn't make fun of Gretchen - too many on the left seem to think you have to have an formal education to be intelligent. Well, I am neither ignorant nor stupid, and I have a great many misgivings about what will happen to conservatives, particularly Christain ones, in the next eight years. I read blogs of all kinds and the common thread is a dislike/hatred of Christianity from most on the left and several on the right. We are the easiest targets in this society, never mind that most of the creators were Christians or Deists. I do think about those citizen army folks who will be in the right spot to move us out to re-education camps.
We'll just watch and wait.

Bob| 11.6.08 @ 3:22PM

Dale, there are more than books available today with the advent of the internet. Put "obama pragmatic" in Google and you can read a number of articles.

I also believe that Obama surrounds himself with older, highly educated men (including Wright) because he has a missing father complex. That also explains his choice of Biden.

People tend to maintain their same behavior and don't often change.

Ned| 11.6.08 @ 3:22PM

"You don't win over the majority of people with hate and demonization -- you win them over with policy, vision, and communication."

Bob you are ignoring the Democrats playbook, the above is all it contains. They have shown you can win a majority with this strategy; however its presence is fleeting. Using policy, vision, and communication wins over a minority, however its presence is more permanent.

Bob| 11.6.08 @ 3:35PM

calcasieu you are right... I am intolerant of intolerance....

Granny, it is religious tolerance that lets you be a Christian in the first place. I don't want you to be any less religious, only to take your specific religion out of politics. You don't need to fear people like me because out of the public square I believe religion is important. I am for vouchers as long as they're for schools that provide the basics in math, science, language, and history. I believe that religious after school groups should be able to use public facilities like any other group. I have fought religious intolerance all my life.

Harry B| 11.6.08 @ 3:38PM

Bob.......... If you are correct, then Saul Alinsky must have been a Rush Limbaugh fan.

political hack| 11.6.08 @ 3:41PM

President Obama's first priority is to consolidate power. He has a deadline of 2010 to try to remake Washington as much like a Chicago-style machine as possible.

BTW, the AM Radio spectrum is more valuable auctioned off to digital purposes. It is as obsolete as non digital TV. "Fairness Doctrine" is simply to cover to eliminate AM radio altogether.

Mr. Hillyer is quite right, the rules will change. The American people voted for change. The changes will tilt the playing field. In the same way that the stock market cannot rise without capitulation at the bottom, both Conservatives and Republicans have to take the first step and admit defeat. Life will not be the same again.

Weave| 11.6.08 @ 3:56PM

Maybe I missed something somewhere, but in all the brouhaha (great word) about Alinsky's "Rules for Radicals" I've been reading and hearing about for weeks, has any conservative commentator considered the possibility that these "rules" can just as well be used _by conservatives_ for their own ends? I have read Alinsky's book and from what I recall of it, most of his rules can be applied by almost any political faction even if he didn't intend it to be so.

Daniel wilson | 11.6.08 @ 4:01PM

>>it is religious tolerance that lets you be a Christian in the first place.

No, Bob. Christianity's greatest growth has been in times and places of religious persecution. Doubt me? Check out Nero's application of religious tolerance.

Daniel Wilson | 11.6.08 @ 4:05PM

>>I do think about those citizen army folks who will be in the right spot to move us out to re-education camps.

Far-fetched ... but ... what DOES Obama have in mind for these people?

If they DO try to move us to re-education camps, they better take our guns first -- from my cold dead hands!

Dennis D| 11.6.08 @ 4:05PM

The best way to defeat them is to let them be liberals. Other than the Fairness Doctrine do not filibuster anything. Vote against but let them move rapidly to the extreme left as Clinton attempted to do in 1992. Fighting them will force them to the center where it will be tougher to defeat them in 2 years.

TB| 11.6.08 @ 4:08PM

Speaking of a general, why not Patreaus?

Dennis D| 11.6.08 @ 4:08PM

Why doesn't anyone ever ask Chuck Schumer if he believes in Genesis from his Torah? Or Feinstein if she believes Israel has a lease from God? They always try to belittle Christians and never Jews? Why?

Daniel Wilson | 11.6.08 @ 4:09PM

>>I'm betting that he understands history and knows that governing too far to the left will have disasterous consequences. He will have a mind-heart conflict, since his natural tendency would be to go too far left.

Bob, I hope you're right there. Not too sure ... but I hope so.

merle| 11.6.08 @ 4:10PM

"Gird your loins" everyone.

This article is exactly how I've been afraid things will happen.

Long term, one sure way to undermine the left if it gets too far in its goals is to stash as much wealth as you can (at home if necessary to keep the government's hands off of it), then try to downsize into as low an income as you can manage to live. If large wage earners (job creators/taxpayers) disappear fast enough to tank our economy under The One, they won't last as long as they want.

Get a weapon and lots of ammo while you can, stay quiet, and hunker down.

These are my plans for if it gets bad.

Be vigilant and take care of yourself and family.

Deport_H1B_Now| 11.6.08 @ 4:11PM

So, who's fault is it?

It's the American peoples fault for not getting out into the streets and holding massive, violent, demonstrations.

Every freedom loving decent American should get out into the street and demonstrate, violently, to deport this "foreign Negro Terrorist", Obama. As long as you don't all hope is lost. Obama is an Anchor baby according to the 14th Amendment. His citizenship is merely ink on paper.

lv4921391| 11.6.08 @ 4:13PM

Gird your loins...BHO is a disciple of Saul D. Alinsky (Rules for Radicals)...BHO is a friend of Calypso Louie aka Louis Farrakhan, other friends include William Ayers, Jeremiah Wright, Tony Rezko, Frank Davis , Bermardine Dohrn, Rashid Khalidi, Father Pfleger. Why are these his friends, could it be that he used them and they used him. He gave (in both Senates, ILL and Congress) earmarks to them or their organizations. Not important you say ? He gave an earmark to the hospital his wife ,Michelle, worked at..the hospital gave her a knuckle busting salary bump from 116,000 to 316,000 , same job btw, still not important you say ? BHO taught at ACORN (Saul Alinsky's techniques) not important you say ? Already today Russia has warned BHO about putting in missles (think BHO might get "tested" sometime) not important you say?
That spinning noise you hear are 40 dead presidents in their graves. But the mortgage meltdown was the straw that broke the camel's back? 99% of it can be laid at the foot of the Democrats, going back to the formation of Fannie Mae...yet it was blamed on the GOP by clever MSM convenient fools... Wall street excesses you say ? about 89% of the beneficaries are Democrats...not important you say ? girl your loins, we're entering "interesting times" will we be a nation after it ? possibly.

Martha Stanford | 11.6.08 @ 4:19PM

From someone with experience with sociopaths: everyone should investigate the definition of sociopathology, and its variations. Charisma can hide much evil very well.

John| 11.6.08 @ 4:19PM

Bob,
Actually, I think Becky's observation about scientists was very insightful and likely right on the mark. My wife is a Ph.D.-holding research scientist at a large university and I interact regularly with many of her colleagues. Almost every single one of them is vocally supportive of Obama. Obama campaign buttons on lab coats were not an uncommon sight. This same strong support for all things liberal was also prevalent at the institution from which she earned her Ph.D., to the point that conservatives would be sought out for political harassment. A mis-step or mis-statement by President Bush, for example, would assure that in short order a breathless liberal scientist from somewhere in the building would arrive to gloat and ridicule.

Neither my wife nor I know "hundreds of scientists", but among the scores that we do know, there is definite and observable tilt to the left. This actually makes sense since they rely overwhelmingly on the government for their livelihood (federally-funded research programs are the paving stones of tenure). Also, university-based scientists are, first and foremost, academics and thus frequently tainted by an air of left-wing elitism and intellectual snobbery that they feel they must affect to "fit in" at the academy. For one to say something at a gathering of these academics like "Sarah Palin seems to have done a good job as governor of Alaska" will, at best, bring sneering laughter and dismissive commentary, or, at worst, doom one with the promotions and tenure committee (probably both, actually). These people, supposedly grounded in objectivity, dismiss dissenting viewpoints with statements like "Please get an education..." Actually, Bob, they sound a lot like you.

My point is that the notion of the “whacky, left-wing, no-dissenters-allowed college professor” is not just a phony caricature fabricated by conservatives, and its reality is not confined only to the liberal arts department. It is pervasive in the sciences as well. I would very much like to meet just one of the hundreds of scientist you know who disdain politics – it would be a very refreshing experience.

Lone patriot| 11.6.08 @ 4:25PM

rebellion
Open, armed, and organized resistance to a constituted government.
An act or a show of defiance toward an authority or established convention.
[Middle English, from Old French, from Latin rebelliō, rebelliōn-, from rebellāre, to rebel.
Organized opposition intended to change or overthrow existing authority: insurgence, insurgency, insurrection, mutiny, revolt, revolution, sedition, uprising. See resist/yield.
Every act of rebellion expresses a nostalgia for innocence. — Albert Camus (1913-1960)

RH| 11.6.08 @ 4:26PM

political hack says " Life will not be the same again."

It was never meant to be static, only dynamic. Bob talks as if our founders didn't let their religiosty influence their views while establishing this Republic. If that is the belief, then it is pure revisionism and has no basis in fact. That they elected to put in place the establishment clause does not mean they left their own faith based views at home. Reading is fundemental Bob. Try it. And if you think that those who let their religious views shape their political views is wrong, thats okay as Mr. Obama and the Progressive/Socialist Democrats spent millions to attract those very people to their socio/political ideology and were reasonbly successful. If you honestly believe that the GOP can survive and flourish without that very same constituency, you are nieve to the absurd. Although I am fully convinced that only a complete and thorough watering of the Tree of Liberty will ever get this nation back on track, I will not cast my lot with the GOP regardless of how they restructure themselves. They had the entire Congress and the White House and they simply morphed into Democratic Lite. It is either some 3rd party or complete and total disenfranchisement for me at this juncture. at age 66, I have no doubt I will not see America ever regain her former glory and status before I pass on. The public Indoctination System (you refer to it as the Public Education System) has seen to that. The old, long dead nazi himself was right, "give me the children and I will rule the world!" that he personally failed at it does not mean that the premise is any less true and applicable to our current situation.

Ed | 11.6.08 @ 4:36PM

I will be waiting for the extreme in Obamaism. With the Congressional majority, the liberal courts on his side, and the love and admiration of the American people how long will it take Obama to overturn the 22nd Admendment aloowing him to serve more than 2 terms?

uc| 11.6.08 @ 4:41PM

I agree with many of the previous posts drawing parallels between Obama's expected governance and that of Hitler and 1930's Germany. I know that 55 million voted against this man (47%). And if the time comes in will be those 55 million voices that will be heard. Most of us do not contribute to the political zoo. Most of us work hard for our families, own small businesses or work for big ones, and generally focus more on life then on politicking. And it is because of our staunch reliance on ourselves, and not a nanny state, that we will can turn back anything this liberal can throw at us. Stay strong and defend our American Conservative principles. Never give up. God Speed.

Lonny| 11.6.08 @ 4:41PM

Personally, I plan on volunteering for the new civilian security force. All conservative should. Infiltrate, adapt and overcome.

Darcy2| 11.6.08 @ 4:42PM

Dear Bob,

The Republican Party tolerates the conservative base only because without us it could not compete against its nearest cousins, the Democrats. Meanwhile, the conservative base has been snookered into thinking that without the Republican Party its ideas would have no chance of realization in a country now so determinedly socialist and blatantly tolerant of everything except Christians. You will find out!

You conveniently forget or choose to ignore the respect for and/or Christian values of our Founders.

The vestiges of that worldview reside now in the conservative base you so loudly disparage -- and to your shame, in my opinion.

And bring on your criticisms of me, I don't care. I know your kind and I do not cower under your withering glare nor your condescension.

The David Brooks, Colin Powells, David Frums, Christopher Buckleys -- and you -- can have the Republican Party. I want no future part in it.

Try winning elections without us. I recognize that the Party has masterfully manipulated us to its own advantage. And what have we gotten out of it for being used? Arrogant disdain from people like you.

Bob| 11.6.08 @ 4:43PM

John, I believe the reason that academics are primarily "liberal" (I don't like these simplistic labels) is because the Republican party has a distinct anti-intelligence viewpoint. Invite some of your wife's cohorts to dinner and instead of discussing liberal vs. conservative, discuss the size and spending of government, moral imperatives, whether they want government to tell them how they should live their lives, etc. In my experience, you'll find more agreement than you think. When the Republican party embraces intelligence and education and not just rigid belief, you'll see the party grow. We have to stop putting forth low performing candidates like Bush, McCain, and Palin. Romney and Jindal are examples of Republicans who could expand the party. I've heard today from Fox that Palin didn't know who was in NATO, who was in NAFTA, and that Africa was a continent not a country. We know she doesn't understand the supreme court or the Constitution. Do you really want idiots like that running the country?

MiddleWest Bitter Clinger| 11.6.08 @ 4:43PM

Anyone want to consider that Bob is an Obamaite? Argues for tolerance, acceptance. Argues against strength, clarity, moral grounding. Hi Bob, you are an Obamaite - weak, unethical, dishonest. Have a nice day!

Bobby| 11.6.08 @ 4:43PM

The "Fourth Estate is already a "Fifth Column" in this Nation. From coast to coast, whatever major paper to care to cite, are nothing but liars and hypocrits. They edit, censor, and play with the truth as if the truth wasn't worth horse sh-t to them. And indeed, it isn't.

Bob| 11.6.08 @ 4:50PM

Darcy, you are showing revisionist history of our founding fathers. Here's what they actually said:

"Lighthouses are more helpful than churches."
--Ben Franklin, Poor Richard's Almanack, 1758

"Ecclesiastical establishments tend to great ignorance and corruption, all of which facilitate the execution of mischievous projects."
--James Madison, letter to William Bradford, January 1774

"Religious bondage shackles and debilitates the mind and unfits it for every noble enterprise, every expanded prospect."
--James Madison, letter to William Bradford, April 1, 1774
". . . no man shall be compelled to frequent or support any religious worship, place, or ministry whatsoever, nor shall be enforced, restrained, molested, or burthened in his body or goods, nor shall otherwise suffer, on account of his religious opinions or belief; but that all men shall be free to profess, and by argument to maintain, their opinions in matters of religion, and that the same shall in no wise diminish, enlarge, or affect their civil capacities."
—Thomas Jefferson, Virginia Statute for Religious Freedom, 1779

"Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason, than that of blind-folded fear."
--Thomas Jefferson, letter, 1787

"As to Jesus of Nazareth, my opinion of whom you particularly desire, I think the system of morals and his religion, as he left them to us, the best the world ever saw or is likely to see, but I apprehend it has received various corrupting changes, and I have, with most of the present dissenters in England, some doubts as to his divinity, though it is a question I do not dogmatize upon, having never studied it, and think it needless to busy myself with it now, when I expect soon an opportunity of knowing the truth with less trouble. I see no harm, however, in its being believed, if that belief has the good consequences, as probably it has, of making his doctrines more respected and observed, especially as I do not perceive that the Supreme takes it amiss, by distinguishing the unbelievers in his government of the world with any peculiar marks of his displeasure."
--Benjamin Franklin, letter to Ezra Stiles, March 9, 1790

"All national institutions of churches, whether Jewish, Christian or Turkish, appear to me no other than human inventions, set up to terrify and enslave mankind, and monopolize power and profit."
--Thomas Paine, The Age of Reason, 1794

"I do not believe in the creed professed by the Jewish Church, by the Roman Church, by the Greek Church, by the Turkish Church, by the Protestant Church, nor by any church that I know of. My own mind is my own church."
--Thomas Paine, The Age of Reason, 1794

"Whenever we read the obscene stories, the voluptuous debaucheries, the cruel and torturous executions, the unrelenting vindictiveness, with which more than half the Bible is filled, it would be more consistent that we called it the word of a demon than the Word of God. It is a history of wickedness that has served to corrupt and brutalize mankind."
--Thomas Paine, The Age of Reason, 1794

"The question before the human race is, whether the God of nature shall govern the world by his own laws, or whether priests and kings shall rule it by fictitious miracles?"
--John Adams, letter to Thomas Jefferson, June 20, 1815

"The day will come when the mystical generation of Jesus, by the supreme being as his father in the womb of a virgin, will be classed with the fable of the generation of Minerva in the brain of Jupiter."
--Thomas Jefferson, letter to John Adams, April 11, 1823

"History, I believe, furnishes no example of a priest-ridden people maintaining a free civil government. This marks the lowest grade of ignorance, of which their political as well as religious leaders will always avail themselves for their own purpose."
--Thomas Jefferson, letter to Alexander von Humboldt, 1813

"Man is fed with fables through life, and leaves it in the belief he knows something of what has been passing, when in truth he has known nothing but what has passed under his own eye." —Thomas Jefferson, letter to Thomas Cooper, 1823

You and others who hold the mistaken notion that our founding fathers were all devout Christians should actually do some research. It is the viewpoints of these people that forced the freedom of religion component.

Jim| 11.6.08 @ 4:52PM

Here

Deborah| 11.6.08 @ 4:53PM

This is my first post here. I am no intellectual heavyweight, just a regular ol' American gal.

My Republican party, of which I am a lifelong member, as were my parents and their parents, has little resemblance today, to the Republican party of my youth.

It seems to me that my party has allowed itself to be defined by it's most extreme members (currently referred to as "the base") which has led to its own decline. Despite my lifelong membership I am now referred to as"mushy middle", RINO, and assorted other derogatory terms. While I consistently hear that America is a center-right country, those squarely at the center right have been dismissed by the more extreme members. Republicans have only themselves to blame for their current state of affairs.

While it seems that most here would agree that if the Democrats succumb to the far left of their party it would spell trouble, we seem unable or unwilling to recognize the same about ourselves.

I am always very careful to identify myself as a Republican these days, as opposed to a conservative, as I do not want to be associated with the likes of Coulter, et al. The folks that have placed themselves front and center for Republicans have had an ill effect on my party.

I am a Republican and I am a conservative person. I am conservative in all things, including my conduct. I am a part of what was once called the silent majority, though I now feel distinctly in the minority. The Republican party of today has completely lost it's focus and has allowed the tail to wag the dog.

Though I am supremely disappointed in the current state of affairs I am not at all surprised. When the ideologues are running the show, regardless of party, trouble is sure to follow.

Don| 11.6.08 @ 4:53PM

Judge Obama by his voting record and past actions. They are radical and secular in thinking. Our country was founded on Christian beliefs free from big government, high taxes and government suppression. Obama stands for none of these principles. He claims the Constitution is flawed, he wants judges to legislate from the bench. (What the left fails to realize is that judges are SWORN in to UPHOLD the Constitution not change it to suit their twisted agenda)

How can you say God bless America and support abortion. I guess it's just as easy to say I didn't know what Rev. Wright was preaching for twenty years. He only Wed my wife and I and Baptised my children. It is hypocritical and deceitful to say the least. Our society is as ignorant as it is immoral. I'll say it again the people that justify his associations and prior actions are just plain ignorant, the rest (40%) of Americans are government dependent in some way shape or form and are standing there waitng for a free handout, waiting to pick pocket their neighbor.

Liberalism, unforunately relies on Government dependent people to survive and the left will continue to try to make as many people as possible dependent upon them. When Welfare was first introduced by FDR it was supposed to eliminate poverty. How many decades have gone by? Poverty has progressively got worse year after year. Proof that they really aren't trying to fix the problem. They're just keeping you right where they want you. They give you just enough to get by but never enough to really make a significant impact in your life.

If the Fair Tax was in Place Obama would never have won this election, which was of course won with the lies such as tax cuts for 95% of Americans. Mark My words everyone will be paying taxes one way or the other. It just may be in the form of Jimmy carter economics such as 21.5% interest rates or a 13.5% inflation rate. You silly, liberal souls are just exploited by your own party's greed and gluttony for power and wealth. The cause of this shift to the left is clearly ignorance and laziness. My question is - why would anyone want to mimick inferior countries in Europe and abroad by moving further to the left? After all we are the greatest country the Earth has ever seen.

Dale| 11.6.08 @ 4:53PM

John | 11.6.08 @ 3:19PM

I don't have a Ph.D or work for a university, but I am an engineer and work in a very specialized aerospace lab with mostly Ph.Ds. I have to admit that your observation and experiences are pretty much spot on. I observed mostly Obama stickers and buttons and anyone with leanings toward McCain would be isolated at lunch and breaks. It is a true shame that civil discourse of issues is something of the past, as it has been my experience that if you want to have a second discussion of an issue with a liberal, you first must declare sides and if you are on the wrong side, no discussion, you just get told how ignorant and narrow-minded you are.

CheckSix| 11.6.08 @ 5:01PM

It's paradigm shift time. Sun Tzu's "The Art of War" seems applicable in these uncertain dark times for our threatened Republic. I think it is obvious that Conservatives will not get a fair shake with "the system" (media/judicial/etc..) So it is time to come to grips and realize we are in a culteral war for the country as we once knew it. It is time to start thinking outside the box--tactically , speaking. We need to fight this very carefully....because the next thing we know, Waxman will have his Stalinist show trials going on in full swing! (These are nasty people who don't play fair or nice!--wake up, moderates!!)

spray antiacaros | 4.23.10 @ 6:04PM

BTW, the AM Radio spectrum is more valuable auctioned off to digital purposes. It is as obsolete as non digital TV. "Fairness Doctrine" is simply to cover to eliminate AM radio altogether.

Don| 11.6.08 @ 5:01PM

Bob

God is on every important document in this country's history. That is an undeniable fact, so go ahead and try and twist this to suit you're perverted way of life. Next I suppose that you'd tell me that our founding fathers would favor big government, high taxes and abortion. Your statements are laughable.,

Dale| 11.6.08 @ 5:05PM

Don | 11.6.08 @ 3:53PM

The tipping point may very well be attained during Obama's first term as President. The tipping point where there are more people sucking on the government teat than being taxed to support it. When that happens ther is no stopping the chaos and revolt that will surely come to pass. When those standing in line with their hands out and being told "there isn't anything to put in it", will want to know "Where's my check and why isn't it more?". When this happens anarchy will reign and the urban centers will burn in protest. Eventually the close suburbs will burn, at which time all out revolution and civil war will break out. Pretty damn bleak picture for the future. The GOP has ushered in the real opportunity for this scenario because they got intoxicated with power and forgot what they were elected to do.

Deborah| 11.6.08 @ 5:06PM

CheckSix, you had me until the "wake up moderates" line. You guys don't get it. The moderates are the majority in this country and the far right of the Republican party better start recognizing that. To be a "true" conservative you must be moderate. Hand in glove!

Obama realized that the extremists in his party could doom his candidacy, why oh why don't we Republicans come to the same realization?

gary | 11.6.08 @ 5:07PM

Lol, watching you guys freak out is really fun. 8 YEARS OF YOUR BULLSHIT IS OVER, IT IS TRULY A GREAT DAY FOR ALL AMERICANS. Now it's time to get to work.

Deborah| 11.6.08 @ 5:09PM

Grow up, gary!

Gary | 11.6.08 @ 5:10PM

RE: Don's Comment of:

"God is on every important document in this country's history. That is an undeniable fact, so go ahead and try and twist this to suit you're perverted way of life. "

Here are some direct quotes from our founding fathers you might be interested in (try reading them instead of shitting your pants this time):

"Lighthouses are more helpful than churches."
--Ben Franklin, Poor Richard's Almanack, 1758

"Ecclesiastical establishments tend to great ignorance and corruption, all of which facilitate the execution of mischievous projects."
--James Madison, letter to William Bradford, January 1774

"Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason, than that of blind-folded fear."
--Thomas Jefferson, letter, 1787

Bob| 11.6.08 @ 5:10PM

Don, I've given you EXACT quotes of the people who wrote the founding documents. This is what they actually believed. You are rewriting history if you believe otherwise.

Dale| 11.6.08 @ 5:12PM

Gary,

I guess you had better make sure you have a secure job, because if the policies that Obama has said he wants to implement come to pass, unemployment will rise to 20% or greater. He knows raising taxes costs jobs, but he said he will do it any way. Unionization will cause many businesses to cut back of disappear. Yes, work today, tomorrow, and as many days as you still have a job, because you may not have one in the future.

CheckSix| 11.6.08 @ 5:13PM

No way deb, cause moderate donkeys are squishy losers....no heart or courage. sorry--to whimpy. Conservatism is what made this country great. Moderation yields mediocrity.....no thanks.

Deborah| 11.6.08 @ 5:13PM

Bob/Gary, I think you just gave yourself away.

Here's a tip: If you're going to post under different names you should probably change the contents of the posts.

Gary | 11.6.08 @ 5:15PM

"Obama has said he wants to implement come to pass, unemployment will rise to 20% or greater. "

Great to see you guys still backing your arguments with numbers you pull out of your ass.

Sonlit | 11.6.08 @ 5:16PM

I welcome this fight. Time to stop running. This brawl has been coming for years. Let's get it on! *ding ding*

Gary| 11.6.08 @ 5:17PM

"Bob/Gary, I think you just gave yourself away.

Here's a tip: If you're going to post under different names you should probably change the contents of the posts. "

Here's a tip: Select text and hit control+c. Then press control+v. Technology is phun!!!

Don| 11.6.08 @ 5:17PM

Gary, Bob,

So shallow. Interpret those quotes as you wish.

Gary | 11.6.08 @ 5:19PM

"Gary, Bob,

So shallow. Interpret those quotes as you wish."

Yeah, you've gotta dig pretty deep to tease any atheist sentiment out of this one:

"Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason, than that of blind-folded fear."
--Thomas Jefferson, letter, 1787 "

Deborah| 11.6.08 @ 5:22PM

CheckSix, you're sentiments are exactly why the party numbers are dwindling.

You need a dictionary my friend.

Moderation; the quality of being moderate; restraint; avoidance of extremes or excesses; temperance.

Conservative; a person who is conservative in principles, actions, habits, etc.

I have been called a lot of things in my life, but weak and mediocre have never been hurled at me. I am what one might call a "kick ass" chick. Bet I could take you!

Marc Jeric| 11.6.08 @ 5:22PM

Give a "strong" union 40 years of time and it will destroy the industry it works in. Automibile, steel, textile, electronics industries come to mind. Just look at the car you are driving, the television set that amuses you, the shirt and sock and pajamas and shoes you are wearing. Teacher union is very, very strong - they have good pensions and health care, and only 45% of them work in the classroom (the other 55% "administer"). That union has produced milli0ns of illiterates who mumble the teacher union's "liberal" nonsense, and who know nothing of literature, geography, history. And, of course, they vote for Abu Hussein and his "change" toward socialism and perpetual power. As to which race is racist, white or black - 95% of blacks voted for the black, and 55% of whites as well.

Bozena| 11.6.08 @ 5:28PM

Bob-people like you created the losing Republican Party. You should understand that conservatism is not the same as republicanism.
You also seem to forget that USA was created on Judeo-Christian principles. You claim to be the "inteligentsia", you should educate yourself on Nazism being one of the left wing philosophy as is a communism(read "Liberal Fascism" by Jonah Goldberg). Once you read this book you will aslo understand that Hitler was not a Christian, he prosecuted church, he created his own religion, where the state was a GOD as it is in Communism. But I guess they did not teach you that in the public schools. Regarding education since when "a diploma", better yet an"Ivy league diploma" guarantees inteligence, and emotional smarts needed to suceed in life (Rush and Hannity have them both). You should also educate yourself on how lack of the religion principles creates emptiness in psyche not to mention moral compass, and how those who were raised without religion end up finding something other to fill the void (for example environmentalism, read great speech by Michael Crichton "Environmentalism as Religion", which you could find on his web-site). That might also explain why Obama is treated as Messaiah by those without a religion and some with.
Regarding Sarah Palin-why don't you ask yourself WHY those so called "rumors" are coming out now, after McCain lost, and why those people don't have guts to come out "on the record"? As an inteligent person you should examine first, before you start spreading "rumors".

Philip M- I am also Polish American, who just became a citizen and voted for the first time. I am as amazed as you are how little they teach in public schools here about Communism and Stalin and the 100,000,000 people you died because of the socialism/communism. I love what Churchill said about it: "a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy; its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery.”
It is what we are getting since Obama is elected.

To All-It will be hard, but conservatism will prevail because it is theonly logical choice. When my former country Poland and the whole Eastern Europe was under communism we did not have Talk Radio, we did not have free press, the schools were propaganda machines of communists, there were no internet, we were not free to even travel abroad and the Freedom prevailed. Americans have a great tradition of Freedom and conservatism is part of it...We will prevail!

Kevin| 11.6.08 @ 5:28PM

As a European who stumbled on this site whilst perusing around after the election I must say I find some of the 'Obama is a commie' attitudes here simply jaw dropping. From my perspective - in the UK - he's what I term a 'One Nation Conservative' of the likes of John Major. If one mixes in the rasmataz and media-savvy stuff too what you have is a somewhat more right-wing version of Tony Blair. Our current PM - who as you may recall recently provided the model for the stabilization of the banking system - is way, way to the left of Obama.
I'm sure all that will happen is Obama and the Democrats will have romp along for this term whilst the GOP commits near suicide by tearing itself to bits resisting fundamental reform and Obama will win big again 2010/2012. You'll then look yourselves properly and reinvent a conservative formula which appeals to the centre and minorities becoming disillusioned with the Democrats and you'll return to power in a new, revitalized fashion in 2016 or 2020 - by which time the GOP will look very different because the majority of your current, aging white, will supporters have died off and a long period out of power will have forced your to think the unthinkable.
OK, your thinking this guy's a jumped up european idiot who knows nothing about american politics - well you're probably right - except the above pattern has been played out in one form or another (and sometimes with left/right swapped) in a dozen or more european democracies over the past 20 years, and I don't expect you'll be any different.

Gary | 11.6.08 @ 5:40PM

Kevin is probably one of the few commenters with any sense.

George Bruce| 11.6.08 @ 5:40PM

Note how "Bob" has highjacked the discussion to talk about "religious intolerance" when there is nothing in the original article that calls for any religious intolerance. Rather Alinsky-like don't you think?

Larry| 11.6.08 @ 5:46PM

I don't know Bob, and I know he is trying to sound like a reasonable fellow, but I know a lot about history, too, as much as (if not more than) President-elect Obama. As one who was born 54 years ago in Milwaukee, Wisconsin, and has plenty of relatives from and personal experiences spending time in the City of Chicago, I know where Obama comes from, and who his people were and are. While I don't think everything that Quin describes will happen, there is a pretty good chance a lot of it will. And if it does, that will be a very bad thing for the country we all know and love.

Look at the way the Obama campaign ran their message - a lot of soft pabulum, with no hard substance (issues? issues? I don't know what campaign YOU were watching, Bob). And what substance there was was found to be very misleading when examined closely. Look at what the Obama campaign did when people tried to ask them hard questions - stop giving interviews. Look at how they manipulated the establishment media (although they didn't have to try all that hard, did they?).

Old habits are hard to break. And yes, Bob, absolute power corrupts absolutely on both sides of the aisle. But let's not delude ourselves into thinking that Obama will govern from the "center." I laugh when I hear people say that. Obama is going to define the "center" the way he wants to - unless he is challenged on every issue important to conservatives and Republicans alike.

Tired of sidestepping| 11.6.08 @ 5:53PM

Bozenza, the US was not created under "Judeo-Christian" principles. That's a term created by the Judeo-Bolsheviks to soften the view toward them and guide attention away from their operations. The term didn't exist until the early 1950's. Do your homework before telling others they haven't been schooled correctly. It's a shame you don't look into who was behind all the slaughter by the Communists in Europe. Communists like Solomon Perlmutter, better known after he changed his name to Nikita Kruschev. Or Lenin, who has turned out to be of the same ilk. Or Tito. Or thousands of others actually in charge.

Larry| 11.6.08 @ 5:58PM

Reading Kevin's post made me think - Tony Blair is probably one of the best analogies for Obama. Although what is regarded as "right," "left," and "center" in Europe is probably still a lot different than what we in America regard those terms to mean (which is another reason why saying Obama will govern from the "center" is absurd). Obama brings a perceptibly fresh perspective, but is hidebound to wreak massive yet subtle change on the political and social culture. And that change, similar in some extent and degree to Britain (at least with the possible exception of the growth of acceptance of a role for sharia law in Britain which I think unlikely to happen here), would be disastrous for America. An article by Melanie Phillips that I read today makes the Blair-Obama comparison, and I think it is generally apt.

On the other hand, if Obama screws up the economy or American foreign policy, Jimmy Carter might become the better analogy - and guarantee a one-term presidency.

James Lee| 11.6.08 @ 6:02PM

Bob, I was always taught to be wary of anyone who had the answers to all the questions. You seem to possess the same haugtiness usually seen in liberals.

I think there would be a more intelligent and respectful discussion on this page if you would just go away.

Rob| 11.6.08 @ 6:10PM

It is clear that many have a misguided notion as to who Christ is and was. He is and was the Son of God born as a Jew. The Jewish race was chosen by God to reveal Himself to. He revealed Himself as YWEH, I am that I am. Jesus follows the lineage prophesied to in the Law and the Prophets. He was and is a spiritual messiah. The fact some Jews rejected Him as the Messiah, doesn't negate that. He said he would be denied, rejected and despised and this was also described in the Prophets. Nevertheless, Jesus loves us all. So much so that He gave His life. He didn't fight, form an overthrow or dabble in politics. He led by example. If you are truly a Christ follower then you must realize that we are "adopted" Jews. Our faith is Judaic. When Jesus walked the earth and for years after there was no such thing as a Christian religion. There were just Messianic Jews and converts to the this Judaic faith. These fights between Jews and Christians and between denominations achieve nothing and are not Scriptural. Bob, Tom Paine , anyone is free to reject Jesus as the Messiah. The job of a Christ follower is to preach the gospel (good news) of spiritual salvation and do so, lovingly, humbly and with a heart after God.

I also agree with Bob, in that this Nation was not founded as a Christian nation, rather as nation where Biblical mores and ethics were deeply entrenched into the men and the documents they created. If more of us, Jew, Catholic, Baptist, Presbyterian or whatever read it more and practiced what it teaches, we would be less enthralled with our intellect and more in search of wisdom, humility and love, which is the theme from Genesis to Revelation.
What does all this have to do with Politics? Nothing. But let's just see what kind of tolerance this elicits from the blatherers, blowhards, racebaiters, pseudo-intellectuals, conservatives, liberals, atheists and deists...

bill christopher| 11.6.08 @ 6:12PM

i wonder if you might actually get moderates like me to consider your arguments if you let go of the 50s rhetoric? obama is no more saul alinsky than you are barry goldwater. moreover, to suggest that the democratic party invented the tactics of lawyering and landmining (your suggestion that it almost "stole" florida is particularly hilarious) rather than learned them from a very-well organized and funded conservative movement leads me to believe to wonder if you are either naive (which hardly seems a possibility) or engaging in some very creative filtering of history. after all, who funded karl rove, the swift boat and similar 527s or the vast army of lawyers engaged in clearing the voting rolls of folks without perfect documentation in the cause of "protecting the franchise"?

Darcy2| 11.6.08 @ 6:20PM

BOB

IT'S CALLED SPECIAL PLEADING.

You conjure up quotes to support your weak argument and ignore the totality of the historical record.

You're pathetic.

Tom Paine| 11.6.08 @ 6:21PM

I am a liberal and I may go to hell, but when I do I'll go saying -- in the very face of God, if necessary -- a few essential truths about the world and about this country:

1. The founders of this country were by and large not Christians and went out of there way to keep the government from espousing any Christian faith. Jefferson, Madison, and Franklin especially were skeptical about the claims of any religion. Jefferson read Hobbes, Rousseau, and Locke for inspiration and guidance, not the Bible.

2. Progressive taxation is a fine way for the government to raise money to do for the people what they cannot do for themselves (build roads, schools, bridges, protect the country, etc.).

3. Registration malfeasance and voter fraud are so different from one another you'd have to be a damn fool to confuse them. If ACORN registers Donald Duck, it only matters if Donald Duck shows up to vote.

4. Sara Palin was a rash, irresponsible choice for vice president. She very evidently was clueless about American civics and history, and was also confused about our more important treaty obligations. She was incoherent, arrogant, nasty, inarticulate, and brash. You guys lost the election because of her and deserve every minute of wandering in the wilderness you get because of her.

5. They should teach evolution and not creationism in biology class because evolution is a scientific claim that is disprovable while creationism depends upon an appeal to the supernatural and cannot be verified one way or another. It would be no different than trying to teach kids how there could be any such thing as a burning bush.

6. Obama's going to be a great president. God bless Ireland, and look who's coming do dinner!

Darcy2| 11.6.08 @ 6:21PM

That last was to Bob.

JeffV| 11.6.08 @ 6:24PM

I posted a very similar column before the election and was deem a McCarthyite by my friends.
http://cleareconomics.blogspot.com/2008/10/end-of-capitalism-and-freedom.html

I have never met a single person that was touched by the patriot act. But this won't be compared to that. This is against conservatives, not mass murderers, so it's ok.

John Wayne| 11.6.08 @ 6:24PM

Bob/Gary why so angry? Your "messiah" was elected.

You should seek counseling.

Len| 11.6.08 @ 6:28PM

If we have submitted our lives to the God of the bible we acknowledge two truths: 1) We are to faithfully fullfill our responsibilities as citizens and God's representatives. 2) Beyond our capacities we trust in a sovereign God who over rules in the affairs of man.

We learn from prophetic scripture that evil will prevail in the end times. If we study II Timothy 3:1-9, II Peter 3:8-10, and Jude 17-19 we are given a description of what conditions will be like prior to Christ's return. As I fulfill item #1 above then it is my responsibility not to fuss and fume over how things, which I have no influence of control, transpire; such as who Obama selects as his team or the fact he was voted to be President. I'll let Rush do the fuming. I now submit those issues to God's sovereign control and look toward His soon return and reconciliation of all things. Titus 2:12-13.

Bob Edmunds| 11.6.08 @ 6:36PM

Gary, why would we want to get to work? The Messiah rewards those who don't work. He spreads the wealth with the fruits of someone else's labor. Don't despair, all you conservatives out there - Bill Clinton was the best thing to happen to the Republican Party back in the 90's. Obama and his radical policies will be a lightning rod for conservative action and resolve. The electorate is extremely volatile; what looks unlikely in 2008 may be very possible in 2010.

Granny3| 11.6.08 @ 6:40PM

The "Top 40" Authors cited by the Founding Generation (with links to material in the Online Library of Liberty)
St. Paul
Montesquieu
Sir William Blackstone
John Locke
David Hume
Plutarch
Cesare Beccaria
John Trenchard and Thomas Gordon
Delolme
Samuel Pufendorf
Sir Edward Coke
Cicero
Thomas Hobbes
William Robertson
Hugo Grotius
Jean-Jacques Rousseau
Lord Bolingbroke
Francis Bacon
Richard Price
William Shakespeare
Livy
Alexander Pope
John Milton
Tacitus
Plato
Abbe Guillaume Raynal
Abbe Gabriel Mably
Niccolo Machiavelli
Emmerich de Vattel
William Petyt
Voltaire
John Robinson
Algernon Sidney
John Somers
James Harrington
Paul de Rapin-Thoyras

Bob| 11.6.08 @ 6:46PM

James -- what I've created here is something called a "Talmudic" discussion. I've challenged the people who believe without thought by making statements that "disprove" their statements. It was meant to bring out the intolerance of the hard right of the Republican party which consists mostly of social conservatives. It has also brought out several more moderate Republicans who represent the "silent majority". Most of us have been Republicans for decades and don't like where you have taken the party.

Kevin| 11.6.08 @ 6:49PM

Larry (this really is pretty interesting). Whilst I'd agree that Obama is most likely your Tony Blair - the reception to their election is strikingly parallel - I'd take anything Melanie Phillips writes with a very large pinch of salt, she's pretty much our equivalent of Anne Coulter only not so coherent (or popular, or rich).

Fact is whilst a small but vocal section of right content that Blair ruined the country with left-wing policies, the left themselves (soft and hard) generally consider Blair was the reincarnation of Mrs Thatcher and sold them out completely. With unions for example he was able to be a lot tougher in practice than Thatcher simply because they had nowhere else to go.

Truth is up until he followed Bush into Iraq Blair was regarded as the ultimate pragmitist and whilst certainly the shade of some our instituitions have tinged themselves a little more pink than they were, and little more money has been injected into public services, the country has not gone to rack and ruin and we're not waving the hammer and sickle in the streets. In fact in some areas our 'Socialists' have been more Capitalist than our 'Conservatives' (rather like it was Regean and Nixon who were best placed to talk to the Soviets during the Cold War) - granting independance to to Bank of England being a case in point. The actual practical difference in fiscal policy for example between our Left and Right has been in the lower single figures.

So relax, I'd be very surprised if Obama pans out much differently, especially in view of the constraints he's under with the economy. You'll probably have your 'Cool Britannia' phase too and all the other jazz, but when the tide turns they'll be GOP Presidents and Senates again, and America will still be reconignisably there. And they majority did vote for a change so you expect it to be a little different - after all, that is the *point* of democracy :-)

***Sharia - can't let that one go. In fact all that was meant was that in some cases - such as family arbitration - the parties involved can mutually elect to have the case heard under a Sharia so long as there is no conflict with UK law. This doesn't only apply to Muslims - for example Jews can elect for the equivalent from the Talmud. It's a very old pragmatic principal dating at least 2000 years back (the Romans did something similar) and as your law is based on our English Common Law I'd be suprised if there wasn't something similar going on in the states.

Darcy2| 11.6.08 @ 6:52PM

Bozena:

I have been to central and eastern Europe, and have seen the museum on Andrassy Utca in Budapest exposing and documenting the horrors of the reigns of socialists and communists.

I have seen also an exhibit in Aberdeen, Scotland, a photographic history, of the life of the late Anne Frank.

I have also read: God and Man at Yale, Liberal Fascism, Heaven on Earth: The Rise and Fall of Socialism (we wish), Radical Son, The Shadow Party, Witness, America Alone, The West and The Rest, England: An Elegy -- to name but a handful.

And I have experienced the decline of Western Civilization in my lifetime.

But our cause is just and right.

Craig| 11.6.08 @ 6:53PM

Bozena, you are right on the money. Don't listen to any of these people who insist that this country was not founded on Judeo-Christian principals as there are too many examples to support this position which prohibits listing on this site.

This country is headed for disaster, not just because Obama was elected, but mostly because Democrats and especially liberals like Bob and Tom P. have lost their sense of what is of utmost importance placing the human intellect, science, and technology before God and Christ's teachings thereby elevating man as superior.

Couple this with the "party of death's" hunger for power at any cost through calumnous character assassination, pulling the plug on the Terry Schiavo's, embryonic stem cell research, abortion on demand, and gene manipulation (another way liberals and academia "intellectuals" think they can play God), and you have the making of a socialist country flirting with disaster. You really need to take a deeper look at what is behind the Democratic "party of death" and their vile vitriolic leadership as this country is headed for a moral, social, and financial demise (look at where the stock market has headed since the news of Obama winning). WAKE UP AMERICA !!

Bob| 11.6.08 @ 6:54PM

Darcy,

I see you don't understand "special pleading". That fallacy takes an unrelated or minor exception as a reason to disprove the thesis. In this case, Thomas Jefferson, Ben Franklin, and Thomas Paine are a significant and direct part of the founding fathers and cannot be considered an exception. The fact is that your belief that this is a Christian nation is a fairy tale propounded by the social conservative movement.

Sonny| 11.6.08 @ 6:59PM

Henry Lazarus:

It won't be the Jews who the Democrats will have on the chopping block, it will be the Christians.

Bobby| 11.6.08 @ 7:00PM

I would like to ask a question and get a response, because I haven't yet from just one liberal or anyone for that matter who voted for Obama.
Does the fact that he and his wife, having sat in the church of a racist preacher, and listened to racist, anti-white messages for some twenty years, faze any of you at all.? I swear, I'm curious. Does it bother anyone, just a little, who voted for Obama?

Rob| 11.6.08 @ 7:03PM

To Bob,
Despite Darcy's ad hominem attack her point is well taken, you did in fact take only selected quotes to show that the men in question were not "Christian" or even influenced by Biblical principles. Nevertheless, I agree that our Nation was not founded as "Christian" nation, nevertheless the founders were highly influenced by the Bible both Old and New Testament as were most Western thinkers of the time and preceding.

Craig| 11.6.08 @ 7:12PM

Bob:

I await your quotes of Patrick Henry, George Washington, et al, et al. No one denies Jefferson was a deist, nor Franklin an atheist of sorts, and Paine a rationalist. But how many founding fathers were there? And how did so many references to God get into the founding documents if all thought like Franklin? No one claims all the founding fathers were Christian, but to claim religion did not play a most significant part in the founding of this nation is to ignore the facts.

Darcy2| 11.6.08 @ 7:23PM

TO BOB:

Special Pleading:

Pleading or arguing that ignores unfavorable features of a case.

You stand corrected.

Bob in Beijing| 11.6.08 @ 7:24PM

Kelly,

While a closing quote on an earlier message is used by Sean Hannity, Hannity cannot claim credit for originating it. Let not your heart be troubled is from the Bible, John 14:1

Fred| 11.6.08 @ 7:27PM

Tom Paine-

You seem quite confused. Why should evolution be taught if it is "disprovable"? ( to prove to be false or wrong : refute )

I agree with you Evolution is disprovable. I prefer Intelligent Design to Evolution. I would rather believe that an intelligent creator was in control of this amazing creation that we live in rather emerging from some other unproven starting place.

One other thing, if God doesn't exist to you then how is God going to bless Ireland.

You say you are speaking truths, but it is your opinion that "Progressive taxation is a fine way for the government to raise money to do for the people what they cannot do for themselves (build roads, schools, bridges, protect the country, etc.)." I contend that progressive taxation violates the principle of equality under the law. It wasn't until the 16th Amendment was ratified February 3, 1913, that there even was an income tax.

And also like a true liberal, you only tell your version of the story. Try this quote from Jefferson --
"I am a real Christian – that is to say, a disciple of the doctrines of Jesus Christ."
[The Writings of Thomas Jefferson, Albert Ellery Bergh, editor (Washington, D.C.: The Thomas Jefferson Memorial Association, 1904), Vol. XIV, p. 385, to Charles Thomson on January 9, 1816]

Franklin was pro-Christian. He attended church and supported churches monetarily. He believed religion played a positive role in society, and the Bible was a strong moral guide. -- [The Revolution of Belief: Founding Fathers, Deists, Orthodox Christians, and the Spiritual Context of 18th Century America. 2007, by Jim Peterson]

In all the Founding Fathers were three Roman Catholics: C. Carroll, D. Carroll, and Fitzsimons. Among the Protestant delegates to the Constitutional Convention, 28 were Episcopalian, eight were Presbyterians, seven were Congregationalists, two were Lutherans, two were Dutch Reformed, and two were Methodists.

Ron| 11.6.08 @ 7:36PM

If you care to hear from a liberal Dem, a PUMA who voted for McCain, I have a suggestion. The only way for the R party to get back on track is to stop being so far right and start embracing the middle. That's where all the voters are. McCain lost because the far right and evangelicals didn't come out enough for him. Conservatives need to stop harping on social conservative issues like religion and abortion and start getting down to basics like fiscal conservatism, smaller and more efficient government, low taxes with good growth, and issues most Americans care about the most like the economy, healthcare, education, and security.

Stop being divisive just for the sake of partisan politics. You just don't score points that way. There are so many issues to focus on and voters feel they're being ignored while the monied special interests get all the attention. People are just sick of that. To get some good attention, you need to be championing causes people care about. They're sick of seeing only the wealthiest get all the breaks while everyone else suffers from high prices and poor or no healthcare.

Just a guess but I tend to doubt Republicans will be able to get their act together for a successful run at the WH again for 8 years unless president Obama really screws up. If you think you're going to be successful with a Bobby Jindal in 2012, think again. This country isn't about to elect someone into creationism. It's going to take an awful lot of rethinking your goals and aspirations to succeed against this leftist admin. I've had some respect for the cleverness of Republicans in the past but the Bush admin has ruined your reputation and that's going to take some doing to repair.

If it'll help you any, there are a lot of Democrats and Independents who are looking to you to help us survive Obama. We're very disappointed you didn't do more to help McCain win. Water under the bridge. Also, do what you can to help Israel survive. The Knesset dissolves in 5 days and a weakened government is an easy target. At least Rahm agreed to be Obama's chief of staff.

BTW, discussions about the "Christian nation" thing are, IMO, unproductive. You have much bigger fish to fry so start turning up the heat. Good luck!

Bozena| 11.6.08 @ 7:43PM

Tired of sidestepping:
Use "copy" function on your computer for my name, since you have problem spelling it.
And your point is?????

Darcy2-Thanks for all the additional titles, which I still have to read. I see you could understand what I talked about when I mentioned Eastern Europe. I still belive Americans have this GREAT tradition of Freedom that we will prevail. You saw how bad it was in Eastern Europe, and now they have freedom.
Craig-Thanks for your support, you are right in all your points!

Bob| 11.6.08 @ 7:49PM

Darcy, you still have "special pleading" wrong. You can always find unfavorable features to a complex argument. The issue is whether the favorable or unfavorable arguments have any heft. If the people I quoted were lesser or unknown individuals of that time who were not the major protagonists of founding documents, it would indeed be special pleading. The fact that these quotes came from Jefferson, Franklin and Paine preclude it from this specific fallacy.

By the way, I did not say that Judeo-Christian factors did not have a significant influence on our founding fathers, only that it was the doubt of people like I quoted that tempered those beliefs into a generic freedom of religion principle.

That's why instead of having a "Christian" country, we have a country influenced by Judeo-Christian principles. That is a huge difference.

Fred, you took the Jefferson and Franklin quotes out of context (and context is important). Jefferson was making the point that it was not the religion to which he subscribed, but the principles therein devoid of the dogma attached. Franklin was pro-society as it relates to religion. Again, you take him out of context.

Craig 2| 11.6.08 @ 7:52PM

Bob: Are you to be forbidden to participate in politics because you have a worldview and a set of values? Do you somehow separate your worldview and set of values from what you believe should be the direction of the nation and your political party? Bob, everyone brings their worldview and values to politics and votes according to their worldview and values. So why are Christians the only ones not able to do so, in your enlightened opinion, Bob? We can disagree on our beliefs concerning God, but what gives you the higher ground to say one group is not to be tolerated in politics or in your party? The history of the nation is not on your side, Bob. Religious people have always participated in the political process, and they all desire to see the country go in a way that is consistent with their values. Indeed, everyone brings their worldview and values to politics. So when, Bob, did bringing one particular worldview (i.e., Christianity) somehow become improper? And according to what or who's standard did it become improper, Bob? Sounds to me like Bob doesn't like Christianity, so Christians should not bring their worldview into politics. You are certainly welcome to your opinion, and you are certainly welcome to fancy yourself enlightened and educated while condescending to others as I am currently to you, but can we at least dispense with your façade of being tolerant?

Elizabeth| 11.6.08 @ 7:58PM

Ah, revisionist history at its finest. Yes, we were founded on Christian principles. Jefferson was a Chrisitian-not a deist. However, he had no love for hypocrisy and for favoring one denomination over another. Yet, he contributed heavily to the erection of Christian churches. Franklin, I would say, revered the Christian religion. He wrote quite a response to Thomas Paine (who was probably the atheist) concerning "The Age of Reason". If anyone doubts where Franklin stood, then read his letter to Dr. Stiles, President of Yale College (1790). If anyone has any questions concerning our foundation as a nation, then I strongly advise people to read the book, "The Christian Life and Character of the Civil Institutions of the United States" by Benjamin F. Morris.

bugsey| 11.6.08 @ 8:00PM

I think it is true, they will stumble on their own
venom. Things will play out that way.

Bob| 11.6.08 @ 8:02PM

Bobby, to answer your question. Like Colin Powell, I voted for Obama for many of the same reasons. The Wright issue bothered me a lot but I did not see it as racist because I grew up at a time and place where I knew some blacks who suffered discrimination. In addition, I saw Obama as using that church more for political gain than personal influence. It bothered me a lot more that McCain was a loose cannon without the temperament or judgment to be President. Furthermore, as a traditional Republican non-interventionalist, McCain's bellicose attitude was dangerous. Furthermore, Palin was grossly unqualified to be President ant that was McCain's call. Now today, new facts came out about her personal spending, the fact that she didn't know who was in NAFTA, who was in NATO, and she didn't know that Africa was a continent. Plus, she did not have any press conferences and was not vetted. As a country, we cannot take that risk. On the other hand, I read Obama's books, saw him in all of the debates, read his foreign policy speeches back to 1991, saw how he ran his campaign and thought is was a far better risk.

Weave| 11.6.08 @ 8:11PM

I read someplace -- can't remember where -- that when Jefferson was first elected President, many churches put up black bunting in "mourning" for their country, suggesting that he was not accepted as a "traditional" sort of Christian. I suspect that when he referred to himself as a true follower of the _doctrines_ of J.C., he meant it as a counter to what we have come to call "churchianity" and bibliolatry.

Bob| 11.6.08 @ 8:12PM

Craig 2 - we should all participate in politics -- that is not the issue. Your religion is not the issue. The fact that you don't believe in evolution is not the issue. The question before us is whether the Republican party can survive the intolerance of your views to the point where it leaves many of us out. Is there a pro-life litmus test to candidates? Is there an intelligent design litmus test for candidates?

The fact is that only about a third of the Republican party consists of social conservatives. If they make the party unlivable for people like me who believe in small government, fiscal conservatism, and a strong national defense, then the party becomes useless as a political force. Furthermore, America is becoming more Hispanic and black every year and Republicans are primarily a white party -- even more so today than in the past. Our party has no future. So if you have a litmus test for people like me, I have no option but to consider voting for people from another party.

Weave| 11.6.08 @ 8:14PM

I also vaguely recall a quotation of Jefferson's in which he said something like, "I have sworn upon the altar of God, eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man, and that is why the clergy hate me." The first part of this quote is well known but the second half is rarely quoted with it. It took some googling to even find it in its entirety. (I hope it's not apocryphal ...)

Angel| 11.6.08 @ 8:21PM

Bob,
you were for Romney so I guess you are a Mormon.
About Hitler - just saying that you are a Christian don't make you one, you have to be born again/saved to be one.
And no the Latter Day Saints are not Christians or the only right Religion on this earth either.
And to all the ones who voted for Obama - all I can say is congratulations you voted for the next Hitler of this world.
Angel

Josh| 11.6.08 @ 8:24PM

If you atheists want to quote the founding fathers to try and prove your point, try these quotes on for size:

“The general principles upon which the Fathers achieved independence were the general principles of Christianity… I will avow that I believed and now believe that those general principles of Christianity are as eternal and immutable as the existence and attributes of God.” - John Adams

“We have no government armed with power capable of contending with human passions unbridled by morality and religion. Avarice, ambition, revenge, or gallantry, would break the strongest cords of our Constitution as a whale goes through a net. Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other.” - John Adams

“I have examined all religions, as well as my narrow sphere, my straightened means, and my busy life, would allow; and the result is that the Bible is the best Book in the world. It contains more philosophy than all the libraries I have seen.” - John Adams

“Is it not that, in the chain of human events, the birthday of the nation is indissolubly linked with the birthday of the Savior? That it forms a leading event in the progress of the Gospel dispensation? Is it not that the Declaration of Independence first organized the social compact on the foundation of the Redeemer’s mission upon earth? That it laid the cornerstone of human government upon the first precepts of Christianity?” - John Qunicy Adams

“God governs in the affairs of man. And if a sparrow cannot fall to the ground without his notice, is it probable that an empire can rise without His aid? We have been assured in the Sacred Writings that except the Lord build the house, they labor in vain that build it. I firmly believe this. I also believe that, without His concurring aid, we shall succeed in this political building no better than the builders of Babel.” - Benjamin Franklin

“I have carefully examined the evidences of the Christian religion, and if I was sitting as a juror upon its authenticity I would unhesitatingly give my verdict in its favor. I can prove its truth as clearly as any proposition ever submitted to the mind of man.” - Alexander Hamilton

“It cannot be emphasized too clearly and too often that this nation was founded, not by religionists, but by Christians; not on religion, but on the gospel of Jesus Christ. For this very reason, peoples of other faiths have been afforded asylum, prosperity, and freedom of worship here.” - Patrick Henry

“The Bible is worth all other books which have ever been printed.” - Patrick Henry

“God who gave us life gave us liberty. And can the liberties of a nation be thought secure when we have removed their only firm basis, a conviction in the minds of the people that these liberties are a gift from God? That they are not to be violated but with His wrath? Indeed I tremble for my country when I reflect that God is just, and that His justice cannot sleep forever.” - Thomas Jefferson

“We have staked the whole future of American civilization, not upon the power of government, far from it. We’ve staked the future of all our political institutions upon our capacity…to sustain ourselves according to the Ten Commandments of God.” - James Madison

“What students would learn in American schools above all is the religion of Jesus Christ.” - George Washington

“It is impossible to rightly govern the world without God and Bible.” - George Washington

Josh| 11.6.08 @ 8:29PM

By the way, Jefferson, Franklin, and Paine were probably Deists. They still believed in God.

Avery K.| 11.6.08 @ 8:35PM

Hey bob, try this out for your theory, you can find quotes to go against your argument also: since you didn't bother to include any information that contradicts your paradigm, one tends to think that you aren't half as fair minded as you like to think you are.
President George Washington, September 17th, 1796 "It is impossible to rightly govern the world without God and the Bible"

First inaugural address:
Such being the impressions under which I have, in obedience to the public summons, repaired to the present station, it would be peculiarly improper to omit in this first official act my fervent supplications to that Almighty Being who rules over the universe, who presides in the councils of nations, and whose providential aids can supply every human defect, that His benediction may consecrate to the liberties and happiness of the people of the United States a Government instituted by themselves for these essential purposes, and may enable every instrument employed in its administration to execute with success the functions allotted to his charge. In tendering this homage to the Great Author of every public and private good, I assure myself that it expresses your sentiments not less than my own, nor those of my fellow-citizens at large less than either. No people can be bound to acknowledge and adore the Invisible Hand which conducts the affairs of men more than those of the United States. Every step by which they have advanced to the character of an independent nation seems to have been distinguished by some token of providential agency; and in the important revolution just accomplished in the system of their united government the tranquil deliberations and voluntary consent of so many distinct communities from which the event has resulted can not be compared with the means by which most governments have been established without some return of pious gratitude, along with an humble anticipation of the future blessings which the past seem to presage.

Washington's second address has many references to "God" also.

John Adams first inaugural address:
And may that Being who is supreme over all, the Patron of Order, the Fountain of Justice, and the Protector in all ages of the world of virtuous liberty, continue His blessing upon this nation and its Government and give it all possible success and duration consistent with the ends of His providence.

Paul| 11.6.08 @ 8:35PM

I believe that the founders of the United States of America were religious people.

From the Declaration of Independence.

We hold these Truths to be self-evident, that all Men are created equal, that they are endowed, by their CREATOR, with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness.--That to secure these Rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just Powers from the Consent of the Governed, that whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these Ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its Foundation on such Principles, and organizing its Powers in such Form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness.

Avery K.| 11.6.08 @ 8:37PM

Hey ron,
Quick question: you say people want a politician who is moderate, and mccain lost because he picked Palin and she's too "conservative" (even though she had some socialistic tendencies toward the oil companies). So explain to me how the new christ and joe the biden are moderate, or where barry-boy has ever worked with the other other side. What part of his platform do you think is moderate enough to attract all the people who don't have the guts to take a stand on something?

Avery K.| 11.6.08 @ 8:38PM

One last question for the anti-Christians here: which non-Christian country on this earth has more religious freedom?

Jack| 11.6.08 @ 8:41PM

"Does the fact that he and his wife, having sat in the church of a racist preacher, and listened to racist, anti-white messages for some twenty years, faze any of you at all.?"

Fair question, though maybe a bit exaggerated. I voted for Obama, and sure it bothered me some. But we had two choices (and some ways to waste your vote). So I chose Obama, because I thought he was more intelligent, flexible and ruthless than McCain. Our President will need those qualities, with what the country is facing.

Johnny| 11.6.08 @ 8:49PM

A couple of things ~
1. "Bob" isn't a Conservative or a Republican, he's a message board troll. Stop fueling "him."
2. McCain didn't lose the election because he's "too far Right", he lost it because he wasn't far enough Right. If the Republican candidate gives up on the Social Conservative issues they aren't representing the Party platform properly and won't win.
3. To the real Conservatives: listen to Rush and Sean, keep your heads up, wait for Obama to show his true side and in 2010 we begin to regain control.

Denise| 11.6.08 @ 8:51PM

Can the rest of us vote to ban "Tom Paine" until he promises to stop posting all his comments half a dozen times each?

LCpl Mosley| 11.6.08 @ 9:05PM

BOB, you idiot. Telling the truth about Obama is not hate and demonazation, opposing his racism is not racism. He's a fake black huy who bought, stole, and lie his way in an office vital to our existence. He is garbage pure and simple. VISION is a marxist word, all of these bs words mean nothing attached to mass murder and tyranny that Obamafuhrer(who is exactly like Hitler in near every way) wants so badly and who his friends so represent. Ayers is a mrxist terrorist and murderer who wanted to impose the USSR on the USA. Dohrn, Odingbat in Kenya, etc. et.c You haven't been a member of the party for 40 years, in fact I deny you even being a Republican, you are a retarded sham of a person a typical leftist lying to try cover up you nasty history. This POS isn't a US citizen, he WAS BORN IN KENYA, he is the DISQUALIFIED ONE.....but no DAMN THE US CONSTITUTION say the fake republican democrat saboteurs. He is a thief, a liar, a murderer, and disgustingly evil man.

And where is he? Gloating probably snorting up coke with his queer friends. Meanwhile the grandma he lied about caring about, who many days after "a life threatening" breaking of the hip decided to pretend to go see her, then she dies and he is nowhere to be found. He probably Obamacided her, she wasn't dying, she was a threat, just like his crony who died at 44 years of age recently after the election.

Rob in Michigan| 11.6.08 @ 9:18PM

In other words, "watch the Democrats use the very tactics that we used against them when we had all 3 chambers of power against us now! Oh, it's so unfair!"

Craig 2| 11.6.08 @ 9:20PM

Bob:

Thanks for your response, I appreciate it. In a sense, all have litmus tests of one sort or another, and some feel stronger about some issues than others. But it is still not clear to me that the more socially conservative are the more intolerant, which you appear to take as a given. You stated, "The question before us is whether the Republican party can survive the intolerance of your views to the point where it leaves many of us out. " You are entitled to your views, as others are entitled to theirs. In terms of what works, Reagan won in two landslides, while McCain couldn't win over one of the least qualified candidates in history, with a background that would have easily precluded any candidate from even running, apart from a complicit press. So, as a practical matter, I do not see how the Republican party is endangered by social conservatives, while I do see the desire of many to move to center (to wit, McCain) as what cost us this election. Pointing to Palin as the problem is contrary to the facts, as McCain benefitted greatly in the polls by the choice. The economy, as well as McCain's inability to articulate a true conservative economic message contra the big government views of Obama did not help. Thanks for the interaction, Bob.

Jack| 11.6.08 @ 9:22PM

"One last question for the anti-Christians here: which non-Christian country on this earth has more religious freedom?"

The US so far as I know has nearly total religious freedom, and if that's right, it's not possible for a country to have significantly more. But there are non-Christian countries that have about the same level as the U.S., according to the State Department's report on religious freedom. Japan, for example. See http://www.state.gov/g/drl/rls/irf/2007/90138.htm

And Avery: referring to Obama as "the new christ" puts you in the same category as people who used derogatory names for Bush. Is that a category you want to be in? Obama is our President-elect and out of respect for the office, you should refer to him by his actual name.

Darcy2| 11.6.08 @ 9:37PM

Bless you, JOSH. And thank you, JOHNNY.

Darcy2

Darcy2| 11.6.08 @ 9:42PM

For those among us who consistently repeat the LIE that America was not founded on Christian principles or that its early leaders were somehow at best lukewarm toward Christianity -- I invite you to google George Washington's First Innaugural Address and COUNT the references to God and then report back to us.

Until then, keep your biased and brainwashed thoughts to yourself.

Billy| 11.6.08 @ 9:46PM

Try all they want, I wonder what sovereign states can do to stop some of this legislation from affecting them. There's got to be a Fort Sumter out there somewhere.

Patricia Beverly| 11.6.08 @ 9:50PM

I am very distraught about how the US was snowed by Obama and his slick campaign promises to the untaxable. I am a hard working postal worker and I don't want my money going to anybody who does not earn it. I should not have to pay for the person who bought a house with a mortgage they could not afford. Why should I? I have to WORK for what I get. I don't expect a handout from the government, because the government is US, folks! It is not a separate entity that has lots of money to hand out, it is US!! Why can we not understand that WE own the Government, not the other way around. The original forefathers may have had it right after all. They only allowed those who owned land to vote because they were the responsible ones and they earned the right to vote. Now anybody can vote and when those that have nothing and are living totally on the government are the majority, then of course they will vote for the government handouts. But why should the ones working pay for those who are not???????

Darcy2| 11.6.08 @ 9:53PM

For example:

"Since we ought to be no less persuaded that the propitious smiles of Heaven, can never be expected on a nation that disregards the eternal rules of order and right, which Heaven itself has ordained."

ivanvivian| 11.6.08 @ 10:25PM

I've read a number of times that Obama is to be respected and congratualted. What are you made of? How can you respect a man who used the most unethical means to obtaining power? I'll answer that a little later.

There are people, sometimes Christians saying that Obama is God-chosen, anointed, and appointed. That reveals to me a brainwashed, worldy system adapted mind, with no ability to read, think or reason. Certainly the Bible has not been read well enough by peaople claiming such hog-wash. The scriptures reveal that the spirit of the anti-christ empowers leadership. Leadership that is opposed to the Most High God.

AND respect? I respect dogs that want to bite me, but I do not trust them. The 'respected' dog receives no love from my heart. Jesus warned that we were to beware of the dogs, but in your false love and politically correct tolerance, you have no place for discernment and discrimination. You then love evil and hate good.

There are none deceived who are not willingly and willfully deceived. Whether you claim to be Christian or otherwise. If most of you would read and study your Bibles prayerfully instead of being spoon fed by your agenda-owning leaders, there might be some hope for you yet!

Blognoggle| 11.6.08 @ 10:43PM

And you wonder why you lost the election? This post is the ranting of a paranoid lunatic. Where were you when Karl and Al were purging the Justice Department and letting whack jobs like Monica Goodling run wild? If the right had paid half as much attention to competence and it did to loyalty you might not have to worry your ugly little heads so much.

Tim| 11.6.08 @ 10:48PM

No question that the radical left anti Americanism types willl try to push it's ugly agenda on the rest of the population.

I hope that conservatives keep pushing the Acorn Issue and expose people like Alinsky and Ayers and others from Chicago at every turn.

But the key......is also to register and mobilize people starting today.....educate, teach and mobilize and register them to vote both young and old.

We can't wait until 2010 we need to regroup now with the sole mission of retaking congress in 2010.

There are only seven states that we conservatives need to really focus our strongest efforts on....just look at the electoral map. But we have to out radicalize the left and conservatives could do it but we have to get our hands dirty by doing the heavy lifting at the grass roots.....the young folks who the left captivated in 2008 and who can be captivated again with a new conservative agenda full of new bold ideas......

Do you remember the Reagan Youth? I do!

We will rise again and sooner then the left thinks.

Randell| 11.6.08 @ 10:50PM

I just happened to watch the opening scene of Patton tonight. While Bradley was a work horse, we as conservatives need "our" Patton; someone with the ability to understand the moment in history we are in and the single-mindedness to lead.
Just as Patton read Rommel's book we have the ability to read their book and be able to prepare in advance for the moves of the Left.
While we are miles from the White House at this moment, a little time to reflect, good leadership and preparation will be the lead us out of this. Nowhere at any time has the lefts current brand of leadership lasted.
As Patton said "God created the greatness of America".

CJK| 11.6.08 @ 10:52PM

To Tom Paine and Bob:
Put the Cheetos and Red Bull away and go to bed before I call your mom. Besides, you will turn "it" and your Obambi picture orange if you don't give it a rest and get some sleep and resume both your "efforts" tomorrow as I don't think myBO gives extra credit for consecutive "times" or posts.

Weave| 11.6.08 @ 11:06PM

Hmm. I guess there really are folks who really don't want to learn anything new whatsoever and just prefer hearing the echo of their own voices bouncing back to them endlessly. L8R.

Bloefeld| 11.6.08 @ 11:06PM

This letter is entirely correct in its every aspect. If you have not studied Saul Alinksy you have no idea of what is next.

The evil of communism has cast its hand upon America. The willing sheep, taught to reject truth and with it knowledge, are now to be herded at the pleasure of those like William Ayers who have patiently waited for the country to get stupid enough to not see what has happened.

What conservatives need to do now is to read Hayek and see their way out of "The Road to Serfdom" that we are now on.

The Constitution of the United States is about to be shredded. The 'natural rights of man' are about to be trampled by a Marxist.

People mocked the woman who interview Joe Biden and asked him what it was that did not make Obama a "Marxist.'

History will show her to have asked the absolutely correct question at the right time. America chose to mock her instead of listen to her.

America is going to weep for not paying attention, and the world is going to be pushed down into a new Dark Ages as its leader is turned into a 'utopia' by the election of the first Marxist in its history.

Cringe in fear and hope that the idiotic masses learn to recapture the freedom that they so blithely tossed away on the promise of an undefined 'change.'

Change we will get, but it will be the change that rocked the world; similar to the one that happened less than a century ago in Russia.

Cry for you loss America,

Bloefeld

navyvet48| 11.6.08 @ 11:18PM

You haven't found your Bradley or Patton because you aren't looking in the right places. Could it be your champion isn't in the Conservative group? Could it be somewhere else? I think it is and the sooner you realize the better. You are going to have to meet some people in the middle that you have discounted. That is the only hint I will give. Look beyond your ranks, beyond Congress, your white knight rides elsewhere! Open up your eyes! You will have to compromise on this there is no doubt!

fisch instruments | 12.6.10 @ 3:50PM

I need to agree with you on that!

navyvet48| 11.6.08 @ 11:26PM

But the key......is also to register and mobilize people starting today.....educate, teach and mobilize and register them to vote both young and old.

We can't wait until 2010 we need to regroup now with the sole mission of retaking congress in 2010.

Do you remember the Reagan Youth? I do!

Good idea but you will need help. You need to reach out to the disenfranchised Democrats, our numbers are large. We are willing to work at the grassroots level with you but you need to reach out with sincerity. This did not happen when I attended a McCain mixer in Denver. There were some who were told to not to support McCain and this did a lot of damage to McCain. After the damage was done they tried to retract their statement...it didn't work...so many who should have supported McCain didn't. Their website said "No One On Top".... I broke with these fools because they abandoned people in Denver. As a veteran I still believe you do not leave one person behind.....Just my opinion!

Interested Observer| 11.6.08 @ 11:26PM

Darcy, I don't think anyone doesn't think the US was founded on Christian principles. It's that one poster said it wasn't founded on Judeo-Christian principles. He's right. If you start to research and look up the term, apparently it was created in the 1950's. Interesting in light of some of the other charges being made and the pedigree of most of those who run things. In fact their parents and grandparents and so on were many of the people who pushed Russia down the drain in 1917. I think we're seeing it all over again with a different method(s) being used.

Steve J. | 11.6.08 @ 11:48PM

They will try to drastically tilt the playing field, seed our side of the field with land mines and, in short, rig the process to make it next to impossible for the political right, or Republicans, to recover.

Sounds great to me.

OMG| 11.6.08 @ 11:49PM

Wow,
You guys lose an election and go beserk. At least Obama didn't have to resort to the tricks used in Florida in 2004. Geeez people...got lick your wounds and get over it, ya big bunch of cry babies.

Steve J. | 11.6.08 @ 11:50PM

Watch for an assault on the filibuster itself. Watch how they use as precedent the GOP "nuclear/constitutional option" on judges in 2005 -- except instead of just using it for judges, watch them use it against all filibusters. It's easy:

This is another bogeyman. The Left doesn't act like the authoritarian Right.

Steve J. | 11.6.08 @ 11:52PM

I am a hard working postal worker and I don't want my money going to anybody who does not earn it.

It won't because YOU will also get a tax break.

Steve J. | 11.6.08 @ 11:53PM

For those among us who consistently repeat the LIE that America was not founded on Christian principles

Democracy is NOT a Christian principle, it's from the Greeks.

Stacey S.| 11.6.08 @ 11:57PM

Let's see...the Alinsky legacy...getting afterschool programs, helping old people fight a supermarket to keep rotten food from being sold there, helping immigrants who want to learn English do so...yeah, really radical stuff.

RBC| 11.7.08 @ 12:09AM

Comment to OMG--are you kidding, The real Cry-baby Dems still whine about Florida even though the extremely leftist rag , The NY Times, finally finished counting and said Bush won; yeah, he won! That lame TV movie went through the same gyrations and lies about Florida. Obama is full of deceit and all of Americans are going to find out soon enough. What do you think about a candidate that has all his personal college year records sealed so no one can find out his radical history? What do idiots like you really know about him and the people who influence him, huh? That's what sensible folks are upset about. The press gave him a pass on everything--there was no serious investigation, in fact, much was suppressed! Get a clue OMG. I bet can't even spell socialism or Marxism much less understand the significance of its tendrils spreading through this country/govt. because of dumbed-down public high school youths and guilty fascist liberals who hate America but never pack up their bags and go live in Cuba or other countries that have this form of government. Guess they enjoy their fat 'dirty', rotton American paychecks. If this wasn't so potentially tragic, it would be laughable. Please get yourself a serious education in unedited, unbiased American history. I reccomend David Barton's website. It's sad that our troops have to come home to find that we Americans at home didn't fight hard enough for our freedom!

M. Tobias| 11.7.08 @ 12:14AM

There is no point in arguing with each other on this. If everyone just waits for six months, we will all know what type of country this will become; Sjangra-la or Nazi Germany. Then we can take appropriate action. At this point all is just speculation. However, as a student of history, I have seen something similar to this before. I will follow developments with keen interest.

Oh, there might be some interesting developments that could just bring about a Constitutional Crisis in this country. If the coming armed cnflicts don't do us in first.

Steve J. | 11.7.08 @ 12:22AM

the extremely leftist rag , The NY Times

This is a silly remark and reveals a glaring lack of perspective.

Bobby| 11.7.08 @ 12:30AM

Bob, thank you for your response. Now if I could only find one liberal who could answer the same question. I've asked this question on probably 100 posts even long before the election and not one liberal gave me a response. Not one.

Bobby| 11.7.08 @ 12:33AM

OMG, I can assure you that the Democrats signed up Lord knows how many people who are not eligible to vote, including many illegal alien foreign nationals. It wasn't even worth voting in California.

Steve J. | 11.7.08 @ 12:33AM

Does the fact that he and his wife, having sat in the church of a racist preacher, and listened to racist, anti-white messages for some twenty years, faze any of you at all.?

Wright isn't a racist.

Steve J. | 11.7.08 @ 12:34AM

I can assure you that the Democrats signed up Lord knows how many people who are not eligible to vote

No you can't. The recorded cases put the number below 0.001%.

RBC| 11.7.08 @ 12:37AM

Comment for Stacy S. regarding Saul Alinsky: While I agree that that people should not be ripped off, please consider that this is exactly how social engineering works. Alinsky doesn't want to help people so that the down trodden are lifted up, no--he and all those who believe in this kind of propaganda, 'help the proletariat' so that they, the masterminds, gain their trust in order to be voted into power. "Trust me, I'll take care of you because I'm just like you. We'll show the wealthy class they can't treat us this way. And by the way, I'll tell you and yours what you can't do anymore--just leave it to us. We know better than you 'cause we want to take care of you..." Anyway, are you getting my drift? Just like Obama's proposed 'Spread the Wealth" BS, and Hebollah and Hamas' reaching out to their down-trodden masses (their economy made that way by their senseless raging against Israel)--it's nothing short of buying votes and setting up a perpetual voting block from either persons without the capacity of rational thought or selfishly lazy individuals who know this is a scam because they don't want to make an effort to bring themselves up or both! I wonder how many favors he and his people will have to dish out at our expense for the nearly $700 million that was raised. This election was bought and anybody that cannot see this is as blind as a bat. I am thoroughly disgusted and ashamed. This is not what Dr. M. L. King was talking about...

Steve J. | 11.7.08 @ 12:42AM

persons without the capacity of rational thought

The bottom 90% KNOW they've been screwed by supply-side economics.

Boy Named Sue| 11.7.08 @ 1:03AM

RE: Bob: 9:06 AM

Bob, come on over to our side. Either way, you will learn much more listening to Rush, Hannity and Levin than Olberman (speaking of dumbed down...he would have appealed to me when I was 13).

FACT: The Main Stream Media is leftist liberals and totally refused to vet Mr. O.

FACT: Talk Radio emerged and remains extremely successful as a result of this major Imbalance. Many smart people realized they were not getting the whole story...

FACT: Our public education system is a bloated, unionized, intractable liberal failure.

FACT: As Becky mentioned, Scientists are "purchased" by the liberal ideologists via "Government Grants" and or through and funding from the liberal universities where they enjoy tenured (read, permanent employment no matter what). And if they want to continue getting paid, they design their computer models accordingly.

FACT: Morals are important in individuals and society.

I could go on but it's late. Is this what you consider too "hate filled, devisive and intellectually vacant?

Stacy: you sound like you just graduated from one of our fine liberal institutions...
Forcing the elderly to purchase rotten foods happens in state sponsored stores where free enterprise is a dream. In a free country, people selling rotten produce go out of business because people are free to spend their money where the produce suits them, usually with a proprietor that want to remain in business and therefore provides fresh food.

You and Bob need to read Atlas Shrugged, by Ayn Rand.

RBC| 11.7.08 @ 1:07AM

Comment for Steve J.: Not at all a 'silly' statement, Steve. Which part of the NY Times' editorials are fair and balanced toward any kind of conservative opinions? Why does such a formerly great newspaper have such a pitiful circulation? It's ok--you can admit it--they and other papers whored themselves out!

We're all just expressing our opinions but it's really helpful to be intellectually honest! I was sorry to read A. M. Rosenthal died a couple of years ago. He was the former editor and was fired for journalistically supporting persecuted Christians overseas. (See, even then the owners of the NYT were tolerant and diverse thinkers!) After that move toward open-mindedness, their opinion pieces have become, shall we say, less than objective?

In truth, it is your statement, sir, that shows a seriously glaring lack of perspective.

Rob| 11.7.08 @ 1:10AM

Steve, looks like your world view has been shaped by the class envy, class warfare party.

Stop drinking the kool aid! Do not except the Victim Premise they are selling you !! Wake up, find your testicles and stop waiting for security to be handed to you by your government!!!

Osamas Pajamas | 11.7.08 @ 1:14AM

Every dictatorship is formed to plunder one or more classes in favor of the ruling class. Identify the victims, be sure that they realize that they are victims, and "arm" them in every sense of that word. Arm them with intellectual ammunition and the means to transmit it [First Amendment and a shot in the ass of John Locke's and Samuel Adams' most seditious language] and the means to defend it when under terrorist attack by Democrats [Second Amendment]. Stop being nice to people who are resolved to be your enemy and who intend to rob you of your life, liberty, private property, and pursuit of personal happiness. Be selfish. Overthrow them, work for their destruction, fight them at every turn from moment to moment and day to day, be the unrelenting and glad warrior now warring openly and now warring underground and now battling from every angle of attack, fight these fascist bastards and throw off the dead hand of their statism, and liberate America, fight them, fight them, fight them.

Steve J. | 11.7.08 @ 1:21AM

Steve, looks like your world view has been shaped by the class envy, class warfare party.
Sunday, July 03, 2005

THE SAGE OF OMAHA SPEAKS
Warren Buffett was on Lou Dobbs' show and had some interesting things to say. Here's perhaps the most famous comment from this interview:

DOBBS: In point of fact, the Congressional Budget Office, which is considered to be the bipartisan objective standard of such things, has research that suggests that the deficit in Social Security would be only 0.4 percent of our GDP over 75 years as compared to the other large deficits percentages that associated with trade in the budget deficit. Do you have, we're talking about fixing the fixes we're in, a quick answer for Social Security?
BUFFETT: I personally would increase the taxable base above the present $90,000. I pay very little in the way of Social Security taxes because I make a lot more than $90,000. And the people in my office pay the full tax. We're already edging up the retirement age a bit. And I would means test ... I get a check for $1,700 or $1,900 or something every month. I'm 74. And I cash it. But I'll eat without it.
DOBBS: That's a progressive idea. In other words, the rich people would pay more?
BUFFETT: Yeah. The rich people are doing so well in this country. I mean, we never had it so good.
DOBBS: What a radical idea.
BUFFETT: It's class warfare, my class is winning, but they shouldn't be.

Steve J. | 11.7.08 @ 1:22AM

Which part of the NY Times' editorials are fair and balanced toward any kind of conservative opinions?

Conservative views are stupid or ignorant or both.

Steve J. | 11.7.08 @ 1:26AM

FACT: The Main Stream Media is leftist liberals and totally refused to vet Mr. O.

This is preposterous!

For example, Obama was asked about Ayers during the April 16, 2008 Primary Debate.

A very sad Canadian| 11.7.08 @ 1:34AM

I lay the blame at the feet of the Bush presidencies for the destruction of the GOP and the dispiriting of conservatives.
Both Bush Senior and Bush Junior were clueless to the nature of the enemy within the US...namely, Democrats and the hard Left among Democrats. They didn't and still don't understand the nature of the enemy's ideology and being non-ideological themselves became patsies at every turn. Really, what do the Bushes stand for? What are their core values? I still don't know how to answer those questions other than to say they are "decent" people. Look at the love fest between Bush Sr. and Bill Clinton a few years back. Look at how Bush Jr. brought the likes of Ted Kennedy into the White House to consult him on the education bill. Those two acts told me how naive both men are. Look at how both Georges handled the appointments of Supreme Court judges...where were their brains? Where were their advisors? Where were the Lee Atwaters who understood that politics is war?
Both Bush presidencies had no long term plans to defeat their political enemies and didn't understand pre-emptive planning and had no vision to save their country from these enemies to the Constitution and to this day they cannot bring themselves to view Democrats as enemies. The Left pathologically hates the GOP and Conservatives in general but the GOP and Conservatives see the Left in more benign terms and hence disadvantage themselves by playing “fair” and being “honorable”. Liberalism, Socialism, Collectivism are virulently antithetical to the US Constitution and any honest student of political science can see that but the Bushes apparently don't?
Whatever it may be, the Bush core ideology is deficient in its ability to win in the war of ruthless politics. The current president stupidly allowed himself to be defined and paralyzed by his stubborn refusal to mount any credible defence against the daily relentless attack on his presidency by Democrats and the mainstream media. It seems he felt it would diminish the Office. So people believed the lies said about him and accordingly turned on him. His inaction weakened his presidency and diminished the stature of the Office he wanted protected. He played nice and lost and in doing so allowed the Democrat Party to regain its strength and recover from the ditch it was in at the start of his Presidency. What a dumb and shameful waste.
The Democrats have advanced to where they can now call the shots and this time they will play for keeps because they are more militant, they have time, they have the will and because they can.
I love the US and I see a bleak future for your country and the world.

Steve J. | 11.7.08 @ 1:40AM

After four decades of lib education in our schools that glorified communism and socialism

Where did you get this bizarre notion?

Steve J. | 11.7.08 @ 1:42AM

Liberalism, Socialism, Collectivism are virulently antithetical to the US Constitution

This is simply false.

RBC| 11.7.08 @ 1:43AM

Comment to Steve: Where did you get your Economics degree? Yes, we've all been 'screwed'--100% of us! Stop playing the class war game. Listen, it's simple really. Capitalism and democracy work hand-in-hand. The markets will always correct themselves if the government, (--not the 'We, the People' part of the government) stops monkeying with it for its own selfish motives. This was the out and out scam of our lifetimes!

Absolutely everyone, from bankers to real estate appraisers, was pressured by those in D.C. to provide 'affordable housing' (code word) to lower income families and that meant relaxing or doing away entirely of the rules of who qualified otherwise you got to have those are 'community organizers' come down and picket your bank or business with signs that you are a 'racist' bank or business. Unqualified loans are written and then re-sold to secondary markets and so-on. Are you following me? Fannie and Freddie should be burnt down to their rebar for the crimes against not only American taxpayers but to the global community.

Here's the really big picture, Steve J. The senators that cause all of this still have their jobs in D.C. They are still screwing us over and Pelosi won't do a thing to bring us justice. Now you can look up various bills and how all of these elected representatives voted on oversite of these two government funded entities (ideas like the govt. being involved in the private sector--always open things up for corruption to occur), especially when those running the show are corrupt themselves and they know no one will rat them out. Do the math--the Democrats have almost three times as many folks involved in this tragic scandal as Republicans. I say fire them! I don't care what political label they wear. Make all of those involved pay back as much as possible and throw the bums in prison. If this shameful scandal could be laid at the feet of a single Republican, there would have been congressional hearings months ago. This isn't rocket science--just dirty politics as usual! Don't shoot the messenger--just look up the records. Oh, and BTW, Steve, thanks to Barney Frank and his ilk, when 'we, the people', go in to sign our mortgage paperwork like I did a few years ago, if we look through aaaaaallll the fine print, our eyes come to rest on a clause (thanks, Barney--no really, I just love subsidizing 'community organizers'). This clause states that a fee automatically goes to ACORN and La Raza. Wow....who knew? How generous. So whether or not we agree with these groups' politics, we taxpayers, get screwed.

Please Steve,, try to be objective, ok? It doesn't hurt, really. :)

I strongly recommend that you read Amity Schlaes' The Forgotton Man. Everything that is happening now, happened in the Great Depression (except for that Fannie/Freddie thing)!

Steve J. | 11.7.08 @ 1:46AM

Yes, we've all been 'screwed'--100% of us!

That's not true. The top 1% did very well and the top 0.1% did better and the top 0.01% did extremely well.

Steve J. | 11.7.08 @ 1:49AM

Absolutely everyone, from bankers to real estate appraisers, was pressured by those in D.C. to provide 'affordable housing'

LMFAO!!! YOU have absolutely no comprehension of the problem. The ENTIRE CAPITALIST INCENTIVE STRUCTURE led to this disaster, not misguided liberal efforts to get poor folks into homes.

Steve J. | 11.7.08 @ 1:49AM

Absolutely everyone, from bankers to real estate appraisers, was pressured by those in D.C. to provide 'affordable housing'

LMFAO!!! YOU have absolutely no comprehension of the problem. The ENTIRE CAPITALIST INCENTIVE STRUCTURE led to this disaster, not misguided liberal efforts to get poor folks into homes.

Steve J. | 11.7.08 @ 1:50AM

Sorry about the double post.

ljc| 11.7.08 @ 2:22AM

Tired of Sidestepping: Please let me know where you found out that Khruschev was really a Jew named Perlmutter. I have read some bios of him and have never read that before. Trotsky, the Molotovs, and Kaganovich were, but Nikita? On election day one of our local TV stations interviewed an ISU college girl who was organizing students for Obama, and she was working for The Pioneer Press, a little outfit that is a relic of the CPUSA. Someone should ask both the Obamas if they have ever heard of the Pioneer Press.

RBC| 11.7.08 @ 2:23AM

Comment for Steve J. : Liberalism, Socialism, Collectivism are virulently antithetical to the US Constitution is an absolutely true statement.

I suspect you are an 17 year old high school student that would like to seem knowledgeable but is unwilling to listen to others who have done their homework and research. I will type very
slowly...simply put, America's first experiment with socialism happened when the first settlers set up a 'collective' and everyones' efforts at gardening, hunting, etc. was communal property. What always happens in this kind of situation is that the slackers slack and the workers work. The workers resent that the slackers get and equal part in the bounty because they didn't put in the same effort. (It's not that I want to punish you, Joe, [the plumber]--I just want to spread the wealth around) These are the words of Mr. Obama. Anyway, back to the settlers in early America. The 'governor' decided that this wasn't working as people weren't motivated to work hard so that someone else could just sit on their ass and still eat along with those that busted theirs. He decided that next time, everyone could work their plots of land and this year, they could keep what they raised. Bingo!

Guess what happened, Steve? I'm going to let you do the research and find out the happy ending and why no one that's capable of thinking reasonably is stupid and dull enough to believe that socialism, communism and Marxism helps the individual to become anything less than a slave.

This is the sad irony when I think of this show business of the Obama campaign. Don't get me wrong-- I didn't have a pony in this race. It just pains me that the first president of color has Marxist/socialistic influences and personal beliefs and that after the four-year long screwing with us, with our Constitution and by the judges that will get appointed, that Americans will remember that it was done by a black man and his cabinet....this saddens me greatly...

We're all in this together, Steve. Wake up; educate yourself before it's too late. Try to find out how weirdly socialistic FDR and Woodrow Wilson were if you can locate writings that haven't been edited for political correctness--a communistic tool to make sure you're thinking/talking the way the government tells you to. In case you hadn't noticed, it permeates America (not me, of course). This is the first thing we have to reverse according to our Bill of Rights.

If you write something lame in response to this, you will, of course, reveal your ignorance and inability to do the research and report back objectively.

OCPatriot| 11.7.08 @ 2:24AM

I read your piece with amusement, Mr Hillyer, because your scenario sounded like a page out of the - guess what? - Rove Playbook. I have the feeling that you've seen Rove's moves in action and, therefore, can relate to them in your imaginary scenario.

But what's missing is any suggestion on your part that the people who are coalescing under Barack Obama's leadership all want to correct what's wrong here. And plenty is wrong. But they aren't blaming; they're too busy getting started; they seem to be interested in not playing the blane-game and, instead, putting people and programs in place to make America a beautiful place. They're also strong enough to know that a filibuster can sometimes hold up progress, as opposed to letting the minority rant and rave.

By the way, one factor that needs to be addressed is why they're now in the minority, and why their influence is shrinking. There's a reason for this and, if the Republican Party is to survive, it must understand this.

To think in terms of it being a battle, Mr Hillyer, is to over-simplify it. Thinking like that is easy and absolves all of the Republicans who went along with the program. The hard work, the heavy lifting, that needs to be done to restore the Republican Party to prominence involves analyzing the current challenges, fashioning a realistic plan to deal with it and correct the problems, and implementing enough of it to prove that it works. Slogans, name-calling, PR and denigrating the "other side" won't work.

Remember, even Greenspan has admitted that he did not fully understand the situation and its impact. He admitted he made a mistake. He told the world that his analysis was flawed.

ljc| 11.7.08 @ 2:33AM

One more thing and then I will go. Someone should start to, if you can stand to do it, listen to All Things Considered in the p.m. A month or so ago they did a weeks worth of segments deploring that the W regime was trying to put His people into the Justice Dept. Lots of talk by lofty professors that Politics should have no place in High govt. positions. See what All Things..says when O starts trying pack His troopers into high office.

Steve J. | 11.7.08 @ 2:44AM

FOR RBC -
I've seen many times before: the assumption that laissez-faire capitalism is embodied in the Constitution. This is of course false and the last Justice Oliver Wendell Holmes pointed out why it is false back in 1905, Lochner V. New York:
But a Constitution is not intended to embody a particular economic theory, whether of paternalism and the organic relation of the citizen to the state or of laissez faire.[198 U.S. 45, 76] It is made for people of fundamentally differing views, and the accident of our finding certain opinions natural and familiar, or novel, and even shocking, ought not to conclude our judgment upon the question whether statutes embodying them conflict with the Constitution of the United States.

Emily | 11.7.08 @ 3:54AM

Richard James Thompson | 11.6.08 @ 7:04AME
Obama's new national police force which HE says will be as strong as the military, will insure a just and fair election in 2012.
_______-

OMG -- I hope you're being facetious, otherwise, you have been around those who are trying to control you too long.

Emily | 11.7.08 @ 4:00AM

Angelo | 11.6.08 @ 7:08AM
It certainly sounds like you are describing the birth of a totalitarian state withe the MSM as the propaganda machine. Scarry stuff!!
________________-
Highly reminiscent of "Rosemary's Baby".

Emily | 11.7.08 @ 4:22AM

MiddleWest Bitter Clinger | 11.6.08 @ 3:43PM
Anyone want to consider that Bob is an Obamaite? Argues for tolerance, acceptance. Argues against strength, clarity, moral grounding. Hi Bob, you are an Obamaite - weak, unethical, dishonest. Have a nice day!
______________-
I prefer to call them OBAMABOTS. After all, they are robots for Obama, the ones he controls by slithering his commands past their conscious mind directly to their subconscious so they do not have any idea why or how they came to a thing, just that they have. Obama koolaid, mind control drugs, or just plain association with someone who is a master manipulator, it's all they need. Obama is the GREAT WIZARD OF OZ = A FRAUD. He controls you on their pathway of life through fields of poppies, closing off the conscious mind in order to complete his works to control. But all it takes is the simplest, mundane, uncomplicated understanding at the level of a small dog to remove all confusion and break the spell. Complication, magic, trickery will be instantly exposed when the curtain is removed from Obama. If he is exposed for the fraud that he is at the time that desperation (especially financial) is the strongest, the damage will be the easiest to repair. People will be more discerning when they are worried, hungry, desperate, and better at the beginning before they become too weary and lose too much hope and shut themselves down. Remember, they were RESTED from their sleep in the poppy field before they arrived at OZ, and lack of REST is used as a further tool to gain control. Before they become too weary, they will begin to listen. Know what you're looking for and take advantage of the opportunity to wake them up.

daddio| 11.7.08 @ 6:39AM

I'm willing to bet the BHO and his majorities in Congress will be the ones to undo the term limits on presidential office. I bet BHO will now serve at least 3 possibly 4 terms in office a la FDR. President for life Obama? It's possible.

drudge ette obama| 11.7.08 @ 8:04AM

Someone tell me why Alinsky went to all the trouble? Power? Arrogant belief that he held the only correct view?

Bob, isn't Obama's public statement that certain countries like Iran, Venez. were small little and harmless countries stupid? More stupid than an alleged, private remark by Sarah Palin about Africa?

Being on Law Review, like Obama was, doesn't mean you have the mettle to be president. I have found those types to be the least likely to have the sense necessary to lead. I work with some of these types. They continually present me with examples of lack of good judgment.

Obama is a pawn, just like Oprah. As are the bulk of those who voted for Obama. Someone else's interests are to be served in the next four years.

Bob, don't count on 1/3 of Obama's staff/cabinet being conservative. Please come back to that speculation in a year's time. I dare say you'll be wrong.

I am impressed by the comments here. It is a big world we live in. Some of us are more right than others, though. Some of us know the answers instinctively. Bob's Talmudic discussions are too time consuming and encourage fence-sitting. Bob should either fish or cut bait.

SamHall| 11.7.08 @ 8:26AM

I'm just brainstorming a bit, so read and evaluate. Find alternate means to deliver the message. Pirate broadcasts and a new, underground net. SamizNet. Produce the broadcasts. Pipe them all over the country with DSL with a network of private computers. Webcast. Podcast.
Maybe some old fashioned pirate radio as well. There must be some folks with electronics training who could design an easily made and relatively inexpensive (and expendable) transmitter. Perhaps the transmitters could be organized like the internet as well.

That's as far as my thoughts take me. Feel free to add to it or reject it. I just pray it never comes to this.

Bob| 11.7.08 @ 8:57AM

Craig 2 -- Let me respond to litmus tests -- I'm willing to accept a pro-life candidate if they are for smaller government, fiscal conservatism, and strong national defense if they are intelligent and tolerant. Are you willing to accept a pro-choice candidate if they meet these basic Republican traits? If not, then you have defined an intolerance that will only serve to make our party smaller.

Regarding Palin, I've been involved in objective business analysis my entire life. The numbers don't lie. If you look at the trend in "unqualified" ratings for Palin, when she was chosen, this was in the mid-20's and after the Gibson and Couric interviews rose to over 50%. Importantly, among independents, she was seen to be unqualified by 60% of that group. When asked about the major reasons independents voted for Obama over McCain, Palin was the primary reason with Bush coming in second. If you are objective, the results are non-arguable.

Now, I don't blame Palin, she did not have any national experience, had no reason to have knowledge about the world, was not a strong academic, and had a family to raise which I see as a higher priority. McCain, however, was a gambler and a fighter pilot who doesn't think about these things. Palin has lots of natural talent, but little knowledge. You need both to have a chance.

Red Neck| 11.7.08 @ 9:13AM

The Obama "Domestic Security Force" idea will go over about as well with America as did George W. Bush's 1-800-RAT-LINE. If seriously pressed it will also split the ACLU ideologically down the middle against itself. The USA (thank the God that some of you atheists are so ludicrously angry at) isn't the Germany of Hitler's day. We know better, there are too many of us who have memories. Our yesterday wasn't as feudal peasants.

Angel| 11.7.08 @ 9:33AM

Here is something to ponder.
If Barack Obama would apply for a job with the FBI or with the Secret Service,
he would be disqualified because of his past association with William Ayers,
a known terrorist.

If he is elected President he would not qualify to be his own body guard!
It's Hard to believe this man could be President of USA.

Angel

Red Neck| 11.7.08 @ 9:35AM

Dear Mr. (or is it Master:-) Steve J,

You're perfectly welcome to jump ship from these shores and join any number of Communist countries if you would like to live in an anti-capitalist environment. Shoot, you might even be their next Che Guevara if you wanted. Oh wait, besides the problem of getting them to not kick you back out, there's the LONG QUEUE OF PEOPLE WAITING BEFORE YOU /sarc.

Red Neck| 11.7.08 @ 9:48AM

Angel,

As President, Obama gets to MAKE the Secret Service rules, doesn't he? (I recall a story about a Bell Laboratories technician that FDR invited in during one of his "Green Hornet" encrypted conversations with Joe Stalin during WWII.) So he could personally let Ayers, Rahm, or any crazy fool that he wants to, look at the highest level secret stuff, or tell them about it. And nobody could do squat, short of it being such an outrage that he gets impeached and convicted by even a lefty Congress.

DC| 11.7.08 @ 9:56AM

WOW - this is an excellent example of tolerance. Dems, you won. Be gracious. Reps, figure it out. Obama is the president. Pray that he makes the right choices. W was ineffective. Carter was worse. Obama needs the opportunity to be effective. Reps need to ensure that his feet are held to the fire. Just like the Dems did with W.
My greatest hope for the Dems is that they avoid the hypocracy that has been in effect over the past four years. OH - Palin was running for VP. Obama beat McCain.

Red Neck| 11.7.08 @ 10:00AM

Oh fuhgeddaboudit. Steve J is a troll royale.
He, she, or it is best ignored.

vince| 11.7.08 @ 10:09AM

I work in the US Embassy in Bolivia and I'm here to tell you that the possible future events in this article are current events here. Don't be fooled by the "sophistication" of US voters versus Bolivians (or Venezuelans, etc.). Gullibility is a human trait not a cultural one. Just as there are those of you who are gullible enough to believe that the only conservative on the Republican ticket was a "drag" on the ticket. Independents are normally democrats/liberals who are afraid to admit it. Independents and moderates in general lack the conviction and moral courage to choose a side based on principle(s) and stand by it. If what I say offends any of you, the 1st Amendment doesn’t guarantee you the right to NOT be offended!

Red Neck| 11.7.08 @ 10:11AM

Democrats - eschewing hypocrisy? LOLOLOLOLOL

Where Obama is going to end up is anybody's guess. He's taken up a veritable spectrum of ever-rightward positions during his campaign and yet owes favors to hell knows who on the extreme left. Will he be the dog that wags the tail or will he be the waggee? Or some of both? Brutal power struggles under the surface are a guarantee. That's why the market, which watches things that the general public barely cares about, is so darn pessimistic now. The behavior of a McCain presidency could be easily predicted. Zerobama is a riddle within an enigma within a cipher (to crib a phrase once used in the West about the USSR).

Red Neck| 11.7.08 @ 10:32AM

If what some aver is so, at the end some uncommitted voters were turned off by how Palin was spun by the hostile media. But I can't think of anyone else who would have gotten McCain within hollering distance of Zerobama, or even past him for a brief period, in the first place. He was the ever compromising gentleman, she was the firebrand, appealing to complementary constituencies. They both shared a proven claim to reform that many (but alas, not enough) Americans wanted.

Walter S.| 11.7.08 @ 10:41AM

Obama's police force? Where have I heard of something similar....?

OH! That's right! It was Adolf Hitler and his goose-stepping brown shirts. They eventually became the SS. So much for freedom and liberty.

Tim| 11.7.08 @ 10:55AM

Bloefeld,

I understand your sincere and justified concern,
but there is one major difference now.

Millions of us Americans have lived and witnessed for ourselves what the marxist philosphy did to Russia, Eastern Europe and continues to do in other various places with very ill effects on the general population of those countries.

The good news is that Saul Alinsky and his followers were only read about in small corners of the American Landscape but now because of Obama and Ayers his philosophy has been outed and has become much more easily defined and will be studied by many more people.

No question that you are spot on when you suggest that the attempt will be to usher in the age of Big Brother and state control of our daily lives .

But let us not forget that it was only 2o years ago that a US president demanded that Communist Russia tear down their wall and they did.

That is why I suggest that we focus our energies on educating the people on the virtues of true traditional American values while using Alinsky and others as the poster children of a failed marxist system that has never worked and can never work because its by the very nature a flawed system.

This isn't rocket science people.

This 2008 election was not about the people wanting to go marxist, it was about hatred for Bush, the Iraq war, the sick economy and love for the first African American to become president period. and even with all of that. the national vote was 53 -46 per cent but much closer in many states.

Marxism was not on the ballot. Clever marxist people disguised as capitalists were.
That is a big difference.

Let us not loose sight of this.

Educate, mobilize and take the congress back in 2010 and take the white house back in 2012.

Start working today.

Jack| 11.7.08 @ 11:01AM

"Now if I could only find one liberal who could answer the same question. I've asked this question on probably 100 posts even long before the election and not one liberal gave me a response. Not one."

Bobby, aren't you interested in answers, even if they come after the election? You would consider me a liberal, and I answered your question at 7:41 pm yesterday. Apparently you missed it. Here's your question and my reply, which I take the opportunity to expand a bit.

"Does the fact that he and his wife, having sat in the church of a racist preacher, and listened to racist, anti-white messages for some twenty years, faze any of you at all.?"

Fair question, though maybe a bit exaggerated. I voted for Obama, and sure Rev. Wright bothered me some. But I am not worried in the least about Obama himself being racist, anti-white, etc. Do you think he hated his grandmother? The problem was his choosing to sit there in the pew and listen. It was a problem, but both candidates had problems. I had to choose one of them (or waste my vote). So I chose Obama, because I thought he was more intelligent, flexible and ruthless than McCain. Our President will need those qualities, with what the country is facing.

Jack| 11.7.08 @ 11:16AM

"Where Obama is going to end up is anybody's guess"

Red Neck, that's one of the most sensible things people have posted here. I personally think that although Obama is a man of the left, he will govern from the center? Why? Because we may (repeat, may) be facing horrible problems. You can't cope with such problems with a 52% majority; you need a heavy majority, so regardless of your personal ideology, you have to govern from the center. But this is just my own guess, and I may be wrong, as you say. We will see.

I am going to call you on the use of "Zerobama." He's our President-elect and out of respect for the office, you should use his correct name (or initials). If you want to call him a fraud, Marxist, etc., I have no problem with that. But don't mangle his name the way some left-wingers mangle Bush's name.

armchair pessimist| 11.7.08 @ 11:30AM

If QH is right and these things are our future, we need to ask what allegiance we owe to that government. There are still red states; we could move there to turn them indelibly redder. We could "incrementally" withdraw from any connection with the rest of the country. Run our own schools and colleges. Have our own media. Make our own laws. Appoint our own courts and judges. In time, the middle third of the country would be in effect no-go areas, to use the term for the Moslem regions of the UK.

Bottom line: We are not all one country. This marriage isn't working, it'll just get more abusive.

Chris| 11.7.08 @ 11:41AM

"It will take very focused, very intelligent, very skillful action by conservatives to stop this creeping subversion of a free society."

Thats rich...

Like the patriot act? Warrentless wiretapping? NSA internet eavesdropping? Gitmo? Secret Prisons?

The list goes on and on and on and on.

These election results *are* the skillful action to stop conservative subversion of free society.

Somedude| 11.7.08 @ 1:47PM

" But don't mangle his name the way some left-wingers mangle Bush's name." ..... 'Zerobama' is interesting, and I've always liked 'Obongo,' but nothing quite hits the funny bone like 'Bareback Yomama.'

Somedude| 11.7.08 @ 1:49PM

If you don't want to "mangle" the great one's name, there's always "The One" or "That One" (McSame's favorite) or "The Big O."

Jeff| 11.7.08 @ 2:17PM

Chris - as someone who has actually held a top-secret SCI clearance, [begin] I would like to warn you about leaking the information that you seem to have as to the inner workings of the eavesdropping, Gitmo and Secret Prisons
Someone with as much inside knowledge as you have should have been briefed on the consequences of treason when you were cleared.
[end sarcasm]
thanks
Jeff

Formwiz| 11.7.08 @ 2:24PM

Two points - first, the only way to combat this is to turn their tactics against them, as several have said already. "Rules for Radicals" is the start; just as Robert Rogers turned the tactics of the French and Indians against them, this is what we must do.

Second, we don't need Omar Bradley, we need Douglas MacArthur

Jim Treacher | 11.7.08 @ 2:51PM

"I assure you the Republican party and conservative movement are going to be just fine under an Obama administration. You have nothing to fear."

Oh. Well, then. You hear that, guys? Never mind.

Strawman| 11.7.08 @ 3:40PM

Methinks that too many doth protesteth too much. For one thing, I don't believe that there are that many in Congress that want a return of the 'fairness Doctrine". Obama probably doesn't want to impose it. there are too many higher priorities to worry about. This continued fear-mongering of first one thing then another on the part of the delusional right signifies how bereft they are of actual ideas or a willingness to better the country after eight years of the Fed running rough shod over the Constitution, the People and the rest of the World. Remember the phrase, Righties? "Yer either with us, or yer agin' us". Quit WHINING!

Silence Dogood | 11.7.08 @ 3:58PM

Americans need not despair. All men in any nation hold the right to dissolve the political bands with any person or party who violate the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God. Liberalism, Socialism, Communism and the like are disordered philosophies that stand in violation of Natural law. What is this law that supercedes all other laws?

"All men are Created equal."

This natural law requires all Americans (and people of all nations) to recognize and worship our Creator, or God, who created us as equals, and establish no law or form of government contrary to it. Obama's philosophy that the men in government (Redistributionors) are superior to the people (Redistributionees) evinces a design to reduce us under absolute Despotism, in which it is our right and our duty to throw off such government and provide new guards for our future security.

Liberty | 11.7.08 @ 5:03PM

I knew long ago that if we lost this election, it would be not because of our ideals, but because of our gameplan. For too long, conservatives have been conservative about expressing our beliefs while liberals and lefties were out screaming at the world and shouting us down. We let them get away with it. No more. A new, energized grass roots effort is the answer. I resolve in the wee hours of Wednesday morning to do something besides talk/write about it. Check out my post at www.mynewgop.com to see how and why.

Frogmom| 11.7.08 @ 5:17PM

Bob, if the Christian/Religious Right had the overwhelming influence over the Republican Party you seemed convinced it does, then someone other than McCain would have been the nominee. IMO adding Sarah Palin to the ticket was just McCain's attempt to throw a bone to Christian conservatives. I honestly don't know why you seem to hate Christians so much, all I can tell you is that authentic Christianity does not involve forcing others to believe as you do.

phyl| 11.7.08 @ 5:31PM

I'm not usually pessimistic but this article is spot-on. November 4th was a major left-ward shift for the country and one that conservatives will have BIG trouble getting any power back from. The rules have changed for good. The end justifies the means. There will not be any more fair elections. The other side just perpetuates vote frauds and buys the votes they need via ACORN. People voting multiple times is ok providing the leftists win. Not enough votes to win? Don't worry, we'll 'find' some for you, like in the MN recount going on between Franken and Coleman. The end justifies the means. Saul Alinsky rules.

Conservative talk radio? They're coming for you. It will be shut down via the 'fairness doctrine'. Conservative blogs - you'll be gone soon. Talk against the messiah will be a 'hate crime'. It will be 24x7 praise for the messiah on the airwaves and on the internet. Fall in or face indoctrination camps. Christians - you're going to be the 'Remnant', conservatives - you're going to be the 'Resistance'. Both groups will be labelled as the 'haters' working against the messiah's global plans for world peace and healing the planet. There will be crackdowns against the 'haters'. The messiah will make it sound all so reasonable and the sheeple will believe him. Be afraid, be very afraid. It's coming.

MontanaDon| 11.7.08 @ 6:12PM

Hey guys and gals.
I have read many postings on this blog and I have come to a simple conclusion. Many of you are as worried as I am about the Democratic majority in all 3 sides of government. What you are not grasping is the idea that the new President and his cabinet will appoint many new judges for the judicial side of the government. Pelosi has held up federal judgeship appointments on purpose for this year, because she was hopeful she would get her Democratic President and therefore get to appoint her far-left judges who will govern from the bench, instead of following under the guise of the US Constitution. This action will have a ripple effect on all liberties, rules and laws in every state throughout the union. Now one way to bring a populace to their knees, is to legislate at the local level instead of the national level. If you can appoint a majority on the National Court (Supreme) you can therefore overturn or outright discard previous decisions by prior courts to therefore fit the agenda of the Supreme Commander (Pelosi). You see you have got to see the big picture when it comes to who really will be in charge. Shame on the people of the Bay Area for putting that UN-AMERICAN REPRESENTATIVE back in the chambers. What they could have done is realize it is her partisan ways will sink any chance that things will get down in the first 2 years of a new Administration. I am appalled that the people of Nevada would allow the return of a partisan Senatorial leader such as Reid. Does anyone remember what the approval rating of congress is 8% of the country thinks they are doing a good job! Bush has a 26% approval rating. I however believe that the changing of the guard is more than this blog is leading into. We are facing so many challenges that I am thinkng of going to law school, so i can help conservative values stay reinforced against the agenda of the congress. We are in for a world of hurt on the local level, forget about the national level for now, focus on your city, county and state. Who is controlling your area? I do believe that it would be appropriate for caucasians to form an organization like NAACP to help push forth the agenda of a disappearing breed. I have never been able to figure out why there is a Black Congressional Caucus and why there is not a White Congressional Caucus or a NAAWP. I am not racist and some of my black friends agree that it is the power machine in congress that keeps us seperated and keeps us from uniting.
We can overcome!

WindyCityPaul| 11.7.08 @ 6:13PM

We don't need the country. We need to focus on taking back 3 or 4 states' electoral votes.

I can't believe we're still having the "moderate" or conservative discussion. If we don't turn right, we will lose again. McCain lost because he was a moderate. Reagan won 49 States. Bush 41 won because voters thought he was Reagan. Then he lost. Then Dole lost. Bush won by the hair on his chinny chin chin twice-- and McCain got creamed.

ALL the "moderate" Republican House and Senate leaders just got creamed.

The last time Republicans led Congress in any meaningful way was under Gingrich, Delay, Armey, et al.

Nay! Nay I say unto thee moderates!!! NO more "compassionate conservatives"!!! NO more "mavericks".

It's never been mere theory that conservative wins, moderate loses-- but now it's clear as a bell.

Roland | 11.7.08 @ 6:19PM

A revived Fairness Doctrine will be irrelevant unless it covers the internet. Rush and company will simply migrate from the airwaves to the web. Conservative talk radio will be the killer app that makes internet radio and breaks broadcast radio.

cedarhill| 11.7.08 @ 6:35PM

Mr. Hillyer, you're absolutely correct regarding the hands that will hold the reins of power Jan 21.

To be absolutely successful, they have to protect the gains in the off year election cycle. What will put them over the top will be a new immigration law enacted early enough to infuse huge numbers of new citizens formerly illegals. It must be done in 2009 in order to have enough time for implementation and getting the folks registered. If you do the math and presume that perhaps 1/3 of the illegals are of voting age and if the number really is at least 3o million, then you've just added 10 million to the rolls. That's about 8+% of this years vote total. All would likely vote Democrat. Illegals seem to be spread around the country and, at those numbers, would just overwhelm Republicans.

Even if they stumble along with the economy and all those other issues, it won't be nearly as important as securing the 2010 elections. Then they'll be able to leisurely take apart America and build any tinker toy model they wish.

Without the illegals, the Republicans may at least have an outside chance. So I'd be hyper-sensitive about immigration laws. Not that we can count on McCain, Lindsey, etc., to fight it can we?

Mark Cure| 11.7.08 @ 6:37PM

I'm glad someone is addressing the academia brainwashing exercise known as "college". I think this is a BIG problem that will come back to bite us in the future. I went back to college as an older non-traditional student and was shocked by what I saw. Professors all but hold campaign rallies in class and profess their love of communism. This at a small college in one of the reddest of red states, I can't imagine the Ivy League! If you are going to get anywhere in the academic world you had better not let anyone know you are conservative. (Unless MAYBE you go in to administration) In the academic world to be educated and to be liberal is one in the same. With more and more kids going to college now, why do we turn our back on this DNC voter factory? What can be done?

NetherLands| 11.7.08 @ 9:14PM

Well I hope the 'true conservatives' who didn't vote for McCain are happy now, this thugocracy and its implications is what people in the know were talking about for months.

truthie| 11.7.08 @ 11:27PM

Thomas Jefferson said it best, "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants. It is its natural manure."

Kathleen | 11.8.08 @ 6:08AM

Bob, you can be a registered Republican and a communist infiltrate at the same time. Are you a plant. Are you even really a Jew? You seem very full of hatred and conceit. You are an intellectual snob. You can have lots of book learning and no wisdom. You apparently fall into the category of being book smart and life stupid. You may be smart but you sound really, really stupid as far as wisdom is concerned.
I do not trust Obama whatsoever. Not one drop. Nada.
Listen to this youtube by a defected KGB agent and learn how communist work. They pretend to be centrist. The video is very educational. Take time to listen to the whole thing.
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/k5ezXdAjXyKVCblBt1
And Bob, I am a born again Christian. I love Jews, my Saviour is the greatest Jew alive forever.

Amanda| 11.8.08 @ 8:20AM

Here's something every American should read, written by an Iranian (who should know):
Understanding Obama: The Making of a Fuehrer
http://www.faithfreedom.org/obama.html

Tom Paine| 11.8.08 @ 2:50PM

Always nice to eaves drop on what the unwashed are telling themselves.

But seriously, folks. You're leaving out a few crucial details.

1. You know those numbers that come after your zip code? Those are civilian relocation numbers, identifying the camp in Colorado or Wyoming you and your family will be chuffed off to if you are on a database Obama has been keeping for about 15 years.

2. Hillary Clinton and Nancy Pelosi are in a sexual relationship. They meet a few times a month in San Francisco to have sex and worship Satan.

3. That boy the Palin's claim to be the father of Bristol's unborn child is a patsy. The real father is Barack Obama. For obvious reasons, the Palin's are trying to keep Obama's paternity a secret.

4. Several UFO sightings on election night suggest an intergalactic empire of "greys" may want to take advantage of the end of democracy in America as the perfect time to begin an operation of colonizing the Americas.

I hope you all plan on attending your local mega-church tomorrow to pray Jesus will protect us from the terrible fate awaiting this country now that we have betrayed Him and all that is Holy by electing a black man president.

Kevin| 11.8.08 @ 3:51PM

Let's look at this, because it's Palin level stupid:

--------------
As Walter S said...
Obama's police force? Where have I heard of something similar....?
OH! That's right! It was Adolf Hitler and his goose-stepping brown shirts. They eventually became the SS. So much for freedom and liberty.
--------------

This is why you lost, and why the rest of the world think America under the Republicans and Bush has been such a disaster. And why every Republican on this site who is jumping up and down about Obama==Hitler is an idiot. You are simply uniformed and ignorant.

The Brownshirts did NOT become the SS. Any child studying history in Europe knows this. The SA were lead by Röhm (a notorious homosexual) and Hitler took them down in the Night of the Long Knives and REPLACED them by the SS. The two were quite distinct organisations.

How can you not know this? It's like Nazi History 101. Unless you are reading the Micky Mouse book of Nazi Germany you *have* to have seen this somewhere. Along with Kristalnacht the Night of the Long Knives is one of THE events in pre-war Nazi Germany that everyone knows about. Jeez even now when there's a particularly aggressive party reshuffle our European *popular* newspapers use some variation on the 'X of the Long Y' meme.

IF you are going to start comparing Obama to Hitler it's a *very* good idea to have at least *some* idea what the hell you are talking about and *not* be operating at the "Hitler was a really bad German man" level.

Anyone can pull Hitler vs Politician/Pundit X comparisons. It's ridiculously easy. It helps enormously if you're trying to make a comparison that you get your facts right.

Lets for fun try a little comparison. One of these is Anne Coulter, the other is Hitler. The word Liberal has been substituted for Jew in Hitler's quote:

"The foremost connoisseurs of this truth regarding the possibilities in the use of falsehood and slander have always been the liberals..."

"The truth is another hateful "bourgeois institution."...liberals always seem to be enthusiastically defending liars. Lying is their most cherished human activity."

Do you know which is which? Honestly? You see comparing Hitler to Obama *on the evidence we have* is just so mind-blowing stupid it's difficult to comprehend how few braincells anyone taken in by this must have. More to the point should this ever turn out to be a valid comparison for any future politician then if you've been shouting it out for each and every you disagree with then no-one is going to take any notice of you because we'll all be suffering from Hitler-fatigue. So it's not only stupid to be making the comparison now, it's politically stupid to be even thinking of making the comparison. It's just as idiotic as the left calling every right wing politician Fascist.

Jeez.

Carol| 11.8.08 @ 9:33PM

Why is it that when conservatives have a difference of opinion we're racists and likened to the KKK? If people making these comments understood their history, they would know it was Democrats that wanted slavery and enacted the Jim Crow laws. They also started the KKK. To top it off, Martin Luther King was a Republican!!!

ruth| 11.8.08 @ 11:51PM

The liberal trolls are back again, lecturing, scolding and telling us why we lost the election. Who asked you? Now go back to your Obamanation sewer, you're stinkin' up the place. Obama is Hitler, Obama is Hitler, Obama is Hitler. Like it? You've called President Bush that name enough--deal with it.

Mark Cure| 11.9.08 @ 1:26AM

"uniformed and ignorant" What uniform? lol

Kathleen| 11.9.08 @ 2:09AM

Paine, Typical disinformation drivel.

Kathleen| 11.9.08 @ 5:23AM

Kevin,
Actually, the SS did start out as an small arm of the SA. Albeit recruited into it out of the more elite classes. But that isn't the gist of what Walter was saying. Without the SA Hitler would have been nothing. Obama wants to raise up an adoring, mega civilian army of his own loyal followers. Maybe to do civic duties, but don't you think that this could possibly seem Hitler-esk?
I wonder how much independent research you have done delving into Obama’s past. Have you studied his many exceedingly dubious connections he has ranging from back into his childhood and on into adulthood? Have your studies taken you into the lives of his parents and grandparents and what their histories are? If not I advise you to do the research as there are many things that you should be aware of. There is also much secretive and unknown about him. If you are not a propagandist infiltrate yourself (and even if you are and become sane) studying Obama is enough to give any true American a chill down their spine, causing them to wonder exactly just who he is and what he and backers might be planning for America.
Very hopefully he is more innocent than one could definitely wonder that he might be.
Interestingly, Hitler did turn on many leaders of the very group, the SA, that loyally worked for him and facilitated his rise. If someone is loyal to a despot history shows that often they can eventually become a "problem" in need of elimination themselves.
Think about it, every evil despot started out merely looking exceedingly wonderful, like a much desired change for the better. They often come in on the tails of economic woes, taking advantage of the dissatisfaction of the masses. And as far as Hitler goes, to many people he seemed to be wonderful for Germany for a time. History shows that it is wise to be vigilant and watch carefully that we are not taken in by a charismatic leader with great and soaring promises of change. A leader that speaks in slogans promising great things for all that will listen. We must be dutiful, careful and consider who they really are and exactly what change they may ultimately bring.
You realize that those who do not learn from history are destined to repeat it. Do not think that it cannot happen here.
Referring to your seeming need to give intellectualism such great credence, at the time of Hitler, Germany was know to be very advanced intellectually. Many of Germany's most intellectual, cultured and elite people became member of the SS. Intellectuals can be just as subject as the less educated, and maybe even more so, to the power of a charismatic leader who with lofty and soaring oration draws vast amounts of people into a course of devastating moral depravity and ultimate ruin.

Pierre | 11.9.08 @ 6:31AM

Call me a curious visitor.....a progressive Christian still doubtful Obama's radical enough to spearhead my vision of America's global faith agenda. Found my way here seeking better understanding of a basis for "Palin 2012".

After 2 hours of reading I'm still curious how a "Palin Revolution" may serve our foreign or domestic expression of Jesus' love and redemption opportunity....let alone address significant economic and cultural hurdles that may hinder billions of traumatized kids from hearing it? Is there a shared conviction behind the sober discussion I've read that Jesus purposes our nation to a particular role on Earth?

Kenjiro Takemitsu| 11.9.08 @ 11:20AM

I am a young Japanese/American, aged 27. I am very interested in politics, but have been appaled and stunned by the "down n' dirty" path that McCain/Palin and the "Christian" conservatives took this year in the campaign, throwing every lie, accusation, innuendo etc. at Obama and his campaign as they could. Especially when it became clear that the McCain/Palin ticket was losing.
I admire Obama and his campaign for not returning the dirty tricks, lies, insults, and innuendos in kind. Our country is in too bad shape for that.
I am thrilled that we have Obama as President, and that the nut-job lunatic right-wing "conservatives" and "christian" Pentecostalists have lost their chance at power (which I hope they never achieve, because if they do it will be the end of the country).
I offer our new President my respect and prayers at Mass on Sunday with alot of other people who voted for him, and hope that he succeedes in governing well and overturning the foreign policy and other disasters of George W. Bush.

Mark Coure| 11.9.08 @ 1:44PM

Yes Kenjiro, good thing we elected someone who has no connection to a "nut-job lunatic " church. Geez....

credito | 2.18.10 @ 4:06AM

I think there would be a more intelligent and respectful discussion on this page if you would just go away. credito

CT Dan| 11.9.08 @ 2:43PM

WARNING!!!: My nastiness meter has detected a number of hate-filled leftists posing as Republicans at this site. Similarly, my meter has detected many "nastys" at other conservative websites this election cycle. Seems we are seeing Alinsky tactics up close. I became sensitive to these leftist tactics as a student in W. Germany in the late 1970's. The name of the game here is to take over the discussion, destroy logic, muddy facts, disrupt intelligent conversation, create anger and alarm. Arguing with these useful idiots is a waste of time. It may be useful in the future to create some websites accessible only to bona fide conservatives so that intelligent discussion is possible. Normally, liberals can't stand to consider the viewpoints of conservatives. Quin Hillyer is to be congratulated for such an insightful and forward looking article. The interest this article has found among the left is an indication of Mr. Hillyer's forsight. By the way, most of the bigots posting here are most probably also leftist posturers.
Also Kenjiro, sounds like you are listening to too much of the liberal establishment media. You will need to find a balance with some conservative information sources if you want to be an informed person. Best of luck to you!

Kathleen| 11.9.08 @ 6:55PM

Dan,
Arguing with "useful idiots" serves the purpose of defusing them. They need to be exposed for the "useful idiots" that they are so that others are not intimidated by them. Remember those that are disinformationalist prosper by taking out the effective tactics of the Patriots, even posing as concerned Patriots themselves. If they can suppress true information they are satisfied.

W E Stewart| 11.10.08 @ 9:47AM

Bob is a liberal, else he wouldn't have made such a ridiculous statement re Palin! Sara Palin didn't know africa was continent, pleeze. Bob, don't take every comment and answer out of context when in the hot mill of answering questions running for office. And another thing re education: Education is learning how to read, understand and use math, geography, history (remember the winners write the history) so it is especially important to learn how to read and that brings us to research. Research and investigate those that try to snowball the public with lies and innuedo, the word smiths are hard at work building nuance.
The real essance of life is to grow up learning constantly about the pressures around one, that are forcing one to comply with laws and regulations imposed on you and others by control freaks. Children need to learn the constitution and the Bill of Rights so that they can, as adults, from a standard compare what is being levied on them and society. The first thing we hear, " it ain't fair " the hell with fainess, give me balance and objectivity and does it meet the muster of the constitution?
We have idiots like Clinton and gang, remember Waco and Janet Reno. Clinton got a wake up call when the militias sprang up and held meetings and showed up carrying guns. After they murdered 80 odd Americans citizens. Oh by the way, the Clinton/Reno camp did there best along with the news media to keep from our black citizens the fact there were 29 black folks in Mt Carmel, had that info been made public, I doubt very much the murders at Waco would have happened. This time when the militias spring up there will be trouble. The gov't hasn't really had much home grown terrorism except for William Ayers and his sweet little wife. These are people the Obama associates with! Even the Obama said so, Bob.
W E Stewart

RA| 11.10.08 @ 10:32AM

It will take nothing but armed revolution to stop this. A good start would be to knock out power staions in the northern cities during the winter and southern cities in the summer.

Martin W. Howser| 11.10.08 @ 11:12AM

The New Alinskyites are comming. We alone on our power cannot stop them. We need to get down on our knees and ask for God's help in overcomming them. If we do not do so their ally, Evil (satin for those more bibically oriented), will prevail. Make no mistake this a fight between good and evil and Evil has the upper hand for now. We can win this fight but only with God's help. We start by following His way.

We rescued the world from the Hitler, Stalin and Tojo, who will rescue us? Only God can rescue us but we must align our will with His Will to be successful. Pray, pray, pray than act. Be not afriad He will show us the way to overcome this great evil that has befallen our country.

Ex-Pat Brit| 11.10.08 @ 1:29PM

Good grief you Americans are paranoid! Do you honestly think todays Democrats are left-wing? They are almost as far to the right as it's possible to go without becoming Fascist. Socialist? Well, maybe they do want to improve the average American's lifestyle, offer better health care, more jobs etc., I guess they lose points for that... Greedy for power? Come 0n - have you looked at Cheney, Wolfowicz, Rumsfeld over the last few years? Any semblance of democracy was annihilated with the War Measures Act. If the Democrats are out to tilt the balance of power they sure have my backing.

Freedom Writer| 11.10.08 @ 7:27PM

There's no way that I could begin to comment on all of the nonsense that I'm reading on this blog. But there's one thing that I just can't let go. This country WAS founded on biblical principles and the vast majority of the founding fathers and signers of the Dec. of Independence believed very strongly in the God of the Bible. Doesn't matter whether anyone wants to admit that, or whether you were taught it in school - facts are facts whether you're aware of them or not. I tire of hearing people try and downplay the role that biblical principles played in the writing of our Constitution and in the lives of those that helped develop it. Let me add some insight - that would mean facts, not my opinion.

Did anyone know that of the 56 signers of the Declaration of Independence, 29 held a degree from seminary or a Bible school? No, that does not include Thomas Jefferson OR Benjamin Franklin. You would be right about them not being Christians. Ironic how they are about the only ones of whom secular education teaches. But other than those two and a couple of others, there were MANY who recognized their need for God and the need of a country to be founded on godly principles.
Examples of signers of the Dec. of Ind. would include, but not be limited to:
Rev. Dr. John Witherspoon
Dr. Benjamin Rush
Francis Hopkinson
Charles Thompson
Robert Treat Payne

There are more and I'm not even including the roles that these men played because it would take up too much room. You probably can't find their correct info plastered all over the web either, but if you do actual research on them you might learn something you wish you hadn't if you are one of the many who wish to see the true history of this country re-written. I got the information from an organization that owns about 70,000 documents written before 1812. The name of the organization is Wallbuilders.
WallBuilders is an organization dedicated to presenting America's forgotten history and heroes, with an emphasis on the moral, religious, and constitutional foundation on which America was built. The fact that they own thousands of hand-written documents from those who actually signed/wrote the Declaration and the Constitution should say something for their credibility.

One more thing I'd like to add. Yes, John Locke was greatly looked to during the writing and construction of the Declaration. Adams and Jefferson report in their writings that they took their ideas for the Declaration from Locke's "Two Treatises of Government". Locke sites the Bible more than 1,700 times to show the proper operation of civil government. People today think that the government is secular and that Christians and religion shouldn’t be involved. Well, good thing for us that they didn’t think that God wasn’t supposed to be involved in government, huh? No wonder we’ve been such a success.

The question now is whether we will continue to ignore the truth of our founding. Seems like the more we do, the further we remove ourselves from the great nation that we once were.

Simba| 11.10.08 @ 9:36PM

Bob,
Get a job! Don't you have anything worthwhile to do?

liberty4usa | 11.11.08 @ 3:16AM

The Obama I have seen has done very little governing of any kind, when he has it is far left as can be. He has devoted a considerable amount of his life figuring out how to acquire power and in doing so sought out non traditional fringe players.
I have seen a few comments here that proclaim that they are certain that he will govern a certain way such as from the center. If past behavior is a good indicator for future actions he will do nothing of the sort. It looks to me like he is the Alinsky disciple that he appears to be. He froze, isolated, and ridiculed Bush early on. He has attempted to repeat this on Sean Hannity having publicly attempted to mock him and have his surrogates do the same on numerous occasions. This occurred due to Hannity's effectiveness in bringing to light these associations and his judgment flaws while the liberal media ignored these quite devastating indictments of his political make-up. I see apologists on these comments all the time dismissing what is plainly known now and acting as if the consequences could not be bad even if it were true. The democratic society of Germany in the 30's voted in a charismatic leader as well.
I predict based on Obamas own statements that he will try to change our Constitution and use every crisis to further his Marxist agenda that he inherited from both his parents.
Awareness is the first defense and preparedness is the next defense and careful observation will soon reveal who is right, the actions that follow may be critical to all our freedoms and liberties that we treasure so dearly.

Kevin| 11.11.08 @ 3:02PM

[liberty4usa |]
....ridiculed Bush

Wow. Like, that's *really* radical. Guess no-one else thought of it.
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http://www.google.com/search?q=bushisms

(311,000 hits)

Jay| 11.12.08 @ 8:10AM

Is Japan a socialist country? I'm trying to think of where we will be able to escape to, there doesn't seem to be anywhere left in the world with the personal and economic liberty we have here, and will soon be gone. I know most of Europe is socialist, and right next to an emerging 2nd coming of the USSR, so that wouldn't work. New Zealand is a beautiful place, I'll have to researh their politcal climate. This place has just been infected with the terminal disease of thug marxism. japan is still too succeptible to earthquakes and othr natural discasters. Damn, an armed revolution or civil war might be in our future.

shane| 11.12.08 @ 8:24AM

Personaly i agree with ur statements Obama's a pretty cool guy. : )

Martin| 11.12.08 @ 2:45PM

Where has Quin Hillyer been the last 8 years? Most of the stuff in the article has already been done by the neo-cons. The fear mongering in the article and many of the comments says more about what you people believe in and are willing to stoop to, than what Obama is going to do. You've created your own bogeyman to believe in to scare people into choosing your side, but it's nothing but a fairytale.

Do you really not see why the Republicans lost this election? You, McCain and Bush are peddling fear, while Obama offers hope. And voters are sick and tired of having your fear forced upon them. They want hope. The kind of hope that Reagan, Kennedy and Roosevelt offered. That's a lot more seductive than your tired old fear and lies.

And as long as the GOP doesn't realize that, they'll continue to lose.

Walter S| 11.13.08 @ 10:55AM

Martin has suggested Republicans and Conservatives are the real fear peddlers; and that Obama and his presidency offer hope (change?).

I have to disagree. Vehemently. Who was it that said McCain was like Bush? Who said Governor Palin was inexperienced? Who said if McCain was elected there'd be no health care? Who said McCain would give huge tax breaks to corporations? Who has all but said he's going to raise our taxes? Who has said he has another $1.3 trillion in rescue/spending packages he wants to implement? That's right, Obama!
Every red-blooded, freedom-loving, patriotic American should be very fearful of the Obama presidency. The Democrat record speaks for itself: when in power, the average citizen is taxed more & more. Democrats have never met a tax increase they didn't like! Obama is no exception - in point of fact, he's even more tax & spend than well known liberal Congressmen such as Pelosi, Kennedy, Reid, Rangel, Dingle, Lahey, Byrd, Murtha, Clinton, Frank, etc., etc., et. al.
Obama is also unapologetically anti-Second Amendment, pro-abortion (even into the third trimester and partial birth varieties), anti-national defense, and anti-business (regardless of level).
There is an old saying that one is known by the company one keeps. Nothing is more true than this of Obama. A Saul Alinsky devotee; a compatriot of William Ayers and Bernadette Dohrn; a Socialist/Marxist doctrine adherent; the most left Senator to have served.
If these obvious facts are, to some people, fear mongering, then there's no chance any amount of debate will change their mind.

Incidentally, I, like other Conservatives, take great offense that Martin dares compare Obama's version of hope with that of the incomparable Ronald Reagan. The Gipper was one of a kind. Unique.
Unfortunately, Obama is of a kind, too, for he was cast from the same mold that brought the world the likes of Hitler, Stalin, Marx, Engels, Mussolini, Trotsky, Mao, Pol Pot, Kim Jong Il, Kruschev - do you see the pattern????

Kevin| 11.15.08 @ 5:20PM

Walter...
Right on Walter. Unfortunatly Obama wasn't the only one. Think about it. McCain spent all those years being indoctinated in a communist cell. What about all those trips he's been making back to Hanoi - couldn't they be to see his controller? And don't you think his interest in foreign policy was really suspicious? He was obviously just an sleeper and if he had won he'd have turned America into a communist dictatorship within a couple of years. Why else would he have purposly chosen the most inexperience VP he could feasibly find? Don't forget he *supported* the bail out - communist mask slipping I think in his hurry to create a Socialist banking system.

Unfortunately, McCain was of a kind, too, for he was recast from the same mold that brought the world the likes of Hitler, Stalin, Marx, Engels, Mussolini, Trotsky, Mao, Pol Pot, Kim Jong Il, Kruschev - do you see the pattern????

There were no true Conservatives in the last election. Either way Amerika is destined to join the Socialist nations by 4 years time, unless real americans resist by force.

:-^

CEWJ| 12.1.08 @ 5:18PM

But in true leftist fashion, the Alinskyites will still bring about their own downfall even if they are able to "outlaw" conservatism. It will be either by destroying their own victorious coalition through using thuggish tactics against each other (like the French Revolutionaries) once they run out of conservative targets, or by creating an armed rebellion against them that will make the militia movement of the 1990's look like a tea party. Let's hope that the natural arrogance of American leftists backfires against them before it gets to that point.

Jimbo1| 12.2.08 @ 11:19AM

Mostly agree with the author's (Quinn Hillyer) article. Do agree... Conservatives have a difficult road to hoe. It's not impossible, just have to prepare a "road map" and stick to it.

Hate and anger are, in themsleves, self-consuming. Let the liberal left and "centrists" indulge in Alinskyite type philosopies. As those philosophies (Nietzche et al) in the early '30's are irrelevant in today's political environment, so will Saul Alinsky's tenets be revealed as short-sighted and wanting (not to mention, full of holes).

I don't worry about this "small stuff." I worry about how far off the beaten path conservativism wandered. Now, we have a debate about how to reorganize and become what we "once were."

Sounds to me like Conservativism is on an Alinskyite psychologist's couch, crying about how "they're" lost. Balderdash. Conservativism is hard, dirty, gut level work. Daily engagement is required by true Conservatives. "Leaving it to someone else" to do, won't get Conservative principle and thinking back into national politics.

A "Reagan" type approach, with fresh, new faces, thoughts, ideas and speech (internet savvy helps), will put true Conservative beliefs back on the front burner.

me| 12.2.08 @ 3:00PM

you people sure have a lot of negativity toward obama after these 8 years with bush you think people would be looking forward to some kind of change rather than sticking with the same bs sarah palin makes women pay for their own rape kit! yeah thats the kind of person i want running the country!

Dave| 12.2.08 @ 3:46PM

I come here occasionally for amusement. I listen to Rush from time to time for the same reason. For those of you who buy into all of the wingnt stuff and have turned off your thought functions to become a dittohead, just for the heck of it try on a different view occasionally. Maybe even try an original thought! Dittohead? Does that not mean I am a copy in the area of the head? What a proud label! I guess I will go back to DKos now and engage my brain.

Dave| 12.2.08 @ 3:58PM

Okay, I fibbed. I just read the post two above my previous post and had to comment again before leaving. It is cathartic. Alinksi was genious. I will treasure forever Rudi's and Sarah's ridicule and disdain for community organizing at the Repugs Convention. Grassroots person to person networking when combined with technology created a movement that has just begun. Obama was not blown off course because he has the simple basics of organizing down pat. He has taken it global. You all just keep trying to figure out what happened. As long as you keep trying to make everything fit into the neat little boxes you have constructed, you will be frustrated. We are so right and they are so wrong! How could this be?Try some reality, objectivity and honesty. Things might start making more sense.

Larry| 12.3.08 @ 12:08PM

Agreat deal said; but the truth is overlooked in all of this wisdom:
"If My people who are called by My name shall humble themselves and pray, and turn from their wicked ways, then I will hear from heaven and will heal their land."
Check it out; it's right in your Bible!

Pingback| 3.4.09 @ 3:05PM

Los hijos secretos de Saul Alinsky « links to this page. Here’s an excerpt:

…que él al menos ganó su propio reino, Lucifer”. Sí, lo habéis adivinado. Saul Alinsky era un satanista luciferino, entre otras cosas. En este artículo, el autor analiza la llegada de Saul Alinsky a la Casa Blanca Pero eso no quita para que algunos intelectuales de la “rebelión”, con las miras cortas sitúen a Jesús al lado de Alinsky con frases lapidarias , como la de este articulo…

Trackback| 3.25.09 @ 1:01AM

Titanic Model Ship, on Titanic Model Ship, links to this page. Here’s an excerpt:

I don’ t think people only listening to what they want to hear is anything new, nor do I think it will change in the future. What is different is when you’ re educating, shaping minds, creating a standard on which future generations can build on, is when you need to tread carefully. But successful democracies are typically short- lived in the Western European culture. For sustainable democracy of knowledge that does away with the tyranny- of- the- majority and skirts around the…

Pingback| 5.8.09 @ 11:51PM

Has President Elect Obama Used Alinskyâs Rules In The Past? | semper fi meaning links to this page. Here’s an excerpt:

…Rules by President Elect Obama affect our Constitutionâs 1 st Amendment Rights? These articles seem to answer this question- You Decide: Obam a-Alinsky Democrats Will Tilt the Battlefield : http://www.rushlimbaugh.com/home/ daily/site_110608/content/01125104.guest.html These are pertinent quotes from th is article: âRUSH: Quin…

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Pingback| 6.17.09 @ 2:55AM

OBAMA IS STILL COMMUNITY ORGANIZING…IN THE WHITE HOUSE! « we are judeo-christian, per links to this page. Here’s an excerpt:

…least won his own kingdom – Lucifer’. Rules for Radicals by Saul Alinsky This article was written just 2 days after the election , people. Look how much of this has come to pass . Saul Alinsky Takes the White House By Quin Hillyer on 11.6.08 @ 6:09AM Conservatives may not realize just how difficult it might be to recover from this week’s elections. The day after the big defeat, the…

Trackback| 8.12.09 @ 5:16AM

Scot UFO - UFO sightings, news & events from around Scotland, on Scot UFO - UFO sightings, news & events from around Scotland, links to this page. Here’s an excerpt:

However, CETI might mean two things here. It might also be referring to“ Arthur’ s Stone” in Wales, a neolithic site also known as“ Maen Ceti”. Could it be someone at the MoD was interested in the idea of ley lines and their relationship to UFO phenomena and other weirdness, hence the importance of the latitude? Reading that report I certainly get the feeling whoever wrote it was of a metaphysical bent- and doing some personal speculating. Anyway, a very interesting find Red Pill.

Markweee| 9.8.09 @ 12:45AM

I have never used a mindmap, but the potential here for accessing huge amounts of information is huge. This would be especially helpful for people who read a lot of books and want to organize the material.
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Markweee| 9.8.09 @ 12:45AM

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Pingback| 10.10.09 @ 9:33AM

Pat Dollard | Young Americans | Blog Archive » Saul Alinsky Takes The White House links to this page. Here’s an excerpt:

…Wong. We are NOT being weirdo paranoids here. This guy, his wife, and ALL those who surround him bleed a far different red than the rest of the people in this country bleeds. By Quin Hillyer - ( American Spectator ) Conservatives may not realize just how difficult it might be to recover from this week’s elections. The day after the big defeat, the conservative chatter everywhere was about how the…

Pingback| 11.4.09 @ 9:15PM

So much for a “Centrist” Obama Administration - Punk Emanuel Selected for Obama Ch links to this page. Here’s an excerpt:

…to pass some real progressive legislation in the first year.” So let’s dispense from this silly crap coming from conservatives that maybe Obama will be “alright” after all. He won’t, we won’t and the country will suffer for it. This is war, it’s time to get to work to make sure that Obama is a one termer without anyone to fill his shoes. 2 Responses Marilyn…

peter| 11.26.09 @ 4:20AM

i´m totally agree with you. You're right, we will be just fine under an Obama administration.
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Not the American Way | America Watches Obama links to this page. Here’s an excerpt:

…way off balance in the character of Barack Obama. Something in the realm of zealotry, with a touch of megalomania, and perhaps an authoritarian impulse too. He combines Alinskyite tactics and outlook with an air of self-assumed moral superiority in a way that fails to respect the usual, small ‘r’ republican limits on American presidents. All presidents, of course, think at some level…

Pingback| 3.5.10 @ 11:38PM

Insufferable. Preening. Megalomaniacal. And That’s Just The Wife! | NewsReal Blog links to this page. Here’s an excerpt:

…way off balance in the character of Barack Obama. Something in the realm of zealotry, with a touch of megalomania, and perhaps an authoritarian impulse too. He combines Alinskyite tactics and outlook with an air of self-assumed moral superiority in a way that fails to respect the usual, small ‘r’ republican limits on American presidents. All presidents, of course, think at some level…

Pingback| 3.7.10 @ 5:06PM

“There is something way off balance in the character of Barack Obama” « Mayrant&rave links to this page. Here’s an excerpt:

…way off balance in the character of Barack Obama. Something in the realm of zealotry, with a touch of megalomania, and perhaps an authoritarian impulse too. He combines Alinskyite tactics and outlook with an air of self-assumed moral superiority in a way that fails to respect the usual, small ‘r’ republican limits on American presidents. All presidents, of course, think at some level…

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Pingback| 3.8.10 @ 7:38AM

Not the American Way : USACTION NEWS links to this page. Here’s an excerpt:

…way off balance in the character of Barack Obama. Something in the realm of zealotry, with a touch of megalomania, and perhaps an authoritarian impulse too. He combines Alinskyite tactics and outlook with an air of self-assumed moral superiority in a way that fails to respect the usual, small ‘r’ republican limits on American presidents. All presidents, of course, think at some level…

Pingback| 3.9.10 @ 7:23PM

Not the American Way #fb links to this page. Here’s an excerpt:

…way off balance in the character of Barack Obama. Something in the realm of zealotry, with a touch of megalomania, and perhaps an authoritarian impulse too. He combines Alinskyite tactics and outlook with an air of self-assumed moral superiority in a way that fails to respect the usual, small ‘r’ republican limits on American presidents. All presidents, of course, think at some level…

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Great analysis of the conservative political plight in the awakening of Polosi and Obama.

Pingback| 3.17.10 @ 3:10PM

One More For The Ditch At NewsReal Blog (As Gleaned From The American Spectator) « na links to this page. Here’s an excerpt:

…way off balance in the character of Barack Obama. Something in the realm of zealotry, with a touch of megalomania, and perhaps an authoritarian impulse too. He combines Alinskyite tactics and outlook with an air of self-assumed moral superiority in a way that fails to respect the usual, small ‘r’ republican limits on American presidents. All presidents, of course, think at some level that they know…

Pingback| 3.24.10 @ 9:47PM

Twitter Trackbacks for The American Spectator : Saul Alinsky Takes the White House [ links to this page. Here’s an excerpt:

Twitter Topsy Search alinsky spectator saul Tags #hcr #tcot Topsy Retweet Button Add Topsy Retweet Button to your Blog or Web Site. WordPress Web Sites 3 tweets tweet The American Spectator : Saul Alinsky Takes the White House spectator.org/archives/2008/11/06/saul-alinsky-takes-the-white-h – view page – cached Conservatives may not realize just how difficult it might be to recover from…

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FLASHBACK TO: 1995

Pope Culture

By George Sim Johnston

A man of faith in a godless age is hitting Americans where it hurts.
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Mr. and Mrs. American Spectator Reader, let P.J. O’Rourke talk sense to your kids.
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By Mark Steyn

In Britain, defending your property can get you life.
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By Werner J. Dannhauser
Counting the Costs of Clintonism

By Robert H. Bork

The debacle of this president’s administration is both a cause and a symptom of the decline of American values. Unless Congress impeaches him, that decline will go on unchecked. An eminent jurist surveys the damage and assesses the chances for the recovery of our culture.
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By George Neumayr

It won’t take long for conservatives to scratch this presidential wannabe off their 2008 scorecard.
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