The American Spectator

Richard| 11.6.08 @ 6:50AM

Therefore, it is time for the "undoing" of those things which the Left uses.
Bradley fought in the mud, up hills and in areas Patton the Prima Donna wouldn't.
Bradley's out there alright, establishment politicians aren't made of that genetic material though. Sorry.
Time to refresh the Tree of Liberty.
Peacefully with some people of Good Will and Morals who believe in keeping foundations and pillars of this American house intact and standing.

Roger | 11.6.08 @ 7:11AM

Well now, that's a less than cheerful way to start the morning, Oh, I guess it was mourning. Nevermind.

Richard James Thompson| 11.6.08 @ 8:04AM

Obama's new national police force which HE says will be as strong as the military, will insure a just and fair election in 2012.

Angelo| 11.6.08 @ 8:08AM

It certainly sounds like you are describing the birth of a totalitarian state withe the MSM as the propaganda machine. Scarry stuff!!

john| 11.6.08 @ 8:15AM

The author forgot to mention statehood for D.C. and possibly Puerto Rico which would ensure two or four more Rat senators in perpetuity.

Henry Lazarus| 11.6.08 @ 8:43AM

I've read a few books on the early years in Germany after Hitler was selected as Prime Minister and have had nightmares of the same thing happening here. If I'm right you will see war crime tribunals against the neocons (jews) who worked for the Bush administration.

Anthony| 11.6.08 @ 8:48AM

Quin, I'm not so sure that we conservatives are as unmindful of the current dire situation as you think. We have, afterall, been watching and commenting on this slow motion train wreck for quite some time, especially after Obama obtained the nomination. We have acknowledged how the Left has managed to control vast parts of our society and government. I think however you overestimate the ability of the Left to control itself. Yes, some of your analysis is very accurate, especially the part of how they will attack talk radio, but never underestimate the inability of the rabid left to overplay its hand. They will eventually succumb to their hatred and anger, which has been boiling just below the surface for decades. Yes, smarter and calmer radicals will try to control the mob, but to no avail. Watch Reid, Pelosi & Schumer come charging right out of the box. Thugocracy is in their blood, they can't help themselves, and we will respond accordingly.

JVB| 11.6.08 @ 8:48AM

you left out our military in Iraq. I foresee changes in the ROE's (rules of engagement) on the horizon. It's going to get increasingly difficult for those in harms way.

Obama will render our military impotent, effectively removing them from the fight by simply changing the ROE's. As conditions deteriorate he will announce our presence in Iraq is a failure, which we should never have engaged in and begin the withdrawal.

He will turn success into failure just to be able to say I told you so and at the same time demoralize our military, not to mention the thousands of casualties this will cause, both American and Iraqi.

think about how easy this will be to pull off

Grissie| 11.6.08 @ 8:49AM

Obamas first call, chief of staff Rahm Emanuel speaks volumes. According to Emanuel theres no one like himself. He is truly a "Pitbull Polititian". Talk about example of "Thugacracy Illinois Politics." His self-centered, ambitious,
self opinion is no secret. Now the question must be asked will Emanuel accept the position ? Rumors flying, Emanuels spokesman denies his bosses acceptance. With Obama now out of the way in their home state the door is wide open for more stellar opportunities from whence he came. The left media singing Emanuels praises should be enough warning for any centris to die-hard conservative. The Obama cabinet selections will tell the tale. Be forever watchful.

Bob| 11.6.08 @ 8:53AM

By the way, you forgot gerrymandering -- reversing what the GOP did several years ago. The problem with this argument is that I heard the same ranting from the left when Republicans did this. The GOP fell into the trap -- absolute power absolutely corrupts. The Democrats now have the opportunity to do the same. If they do, the balance of power might change. If they don't, and are as disciplined as the Obama campaign, then the GOP is in severe trouble.

The big story, IMO, this year is that Obama really did run an issues based campaign and not one based on interest group pandering. The Republican party is still one of interest groups -- social conservatives, fiscal conservatives, and national security hawks. As the party gets smaller and loses fiscal and national security segments, the intolerant social right becomes an impenetrable barrier and forces the downward spiral of the party.

Quin, Obama is as smart as Carter, as disciplined as LBJ, as politically adept as Clinton, as cool as FDR, and as good a communicator as Reagan. He is probably the best read of any President and understands history. The problem for you and the other GOPer's is not that Obama may be an Alinskyite, but that he governs to the center and prevents Congress from going hard left. He will then have succeeded in destroying the Republican Party.

I would recommend to you and the other party faithful to concentrate less on demonizing the left, and more on putting forth the principles of Republican governance including smaller government, non-interventionism, social libertarian views, and intellectual heft. Rush and Hannity will continue demonization (which hurts the party) because they're in the business of getting ratings, not governance.

I joined this party more than 40 years ago and don't recognize the hate and intolerance I see in it today. You don't win over the majority of people with hate and demonization -- you win them over with policy, vision, and communication.

Ernie| 11.6.08 @ 8:53AM

Then the questions are these: how much do we, as conservatives, value free speech, the practice of our religious faiths, the freedom to teach our children our values, and the ability to self-determine what we will become and how? If we valued those things as much as liberals have valued their acquisition of power, then their is reason for hope and optimism. If we shy away from confrontation and live in fear, then we deserve all the left will pile upon us.

Becky| 11.6.08 @ 9:17AM

I've also had an appreciation of history, and it is interesting that we can make correlations. Germany had a poor economic climate bringing Hitler to power. The youth were vital to his plan. Liberals want universal preschool and mandatory volunteerism as part of a school cirriculum. Scientists were held hostage by recieving their funding from the state. Smoking was banned. Do we need a Gastapo as Obama is suggesting by way of civilian security? I heard a German radio commentator say recently that Germany has suffered from "collective shame" (not guilt) over the events leading up to and including WWII.

Watch the fellow travelers, especially the scientists and journalists that support this administration. I have a strong gut feeling that the most well respected class of citizens we have today are scientists. The conventional wisdom is their views are based on pure science. I say bunk. Especially concerning global warming and enery issues, the momentum is pushed by political pressure, and most of the scientists are trying to make the science fit the political, because first of all, survival is the most important human need, and scientists want to survive too.

Remember VonBraun's famous words about not caring if he went to work for Uncle Joe or Uncle Sam after the war as long as it was a rich uncle? It is still true today for most people in the sciences. It is not like you can graduate with a physics degree and open up a little physics business.

The other scientific boondoogle we have fallen for is stem cell research. If it had a good chance of succeeding, the private sector would be all over it, yet in state upon state, this is being asked to be financed by public money. We just passed an initiative in Michigan, and guess what? It will provide jobs, government funded into perpetuity jobs. Another "hope" con job.

dudette| 11.6.08 @ 10:09AM

I propose we adopt Alinsky principles to use for OUR purposes. If they are playing dirty we have to be able sling it back and not necessarily fall on the sword as so many Pubbies have done in the past. I wish DeLay were back in town.

Bob| 11.6.08 @ 10:09AM

To Ernie and Becky,

Why are you afraid of intelligence, tolerance, and education? I know hundreds of scientists, and they do not let politics interfere with their research. In fact, most of them disdain politics. Did either of you major in science in college and grad school?

You don't really want religious freedom, you want us all to follow your Christian beliefs. What about the freedom of Muslims, Hindus, Jews, and atheists to practice what they believe? In true religious freedom we should welcome a Muslim or Hindu President as much as a Christian one.

Comparing Obama to Hitler is the height of bigotry and intolerance.

We just found out today that your dear Sarah Palin did not know that Africa was a continent -- she thought it was a country. She didn't want Sununu on the stage with her because he didn't align with her religious beliefs. This is what your ideology and anti-intellectual views bring with it.

We should be getting religion out of our politics and bringing in the best and brightest to our party. There are true policy differences between Republicans and Democrats including the size of government, fiscal conservatism, a strong emphasis on national security. Neither party has a lock on either ethics or truth. If you continue to demonize your opponents, you will only hurt yourselves.

Paul| 11.6.08 @ 10:12AM

A few words of wisdom from Thomas Jefferson that may be needed to address the situations mentioned in this article.

"The oppressed should rebel, and they will continue to rebel and raise disturbance until their civil rights are fully restored to them and all partial distinctions, exclusions and incapacitations are removed." --Thomas Jefferson: Notes on Religion, 1776. Papers 1:548

"As revolutionary instruments (when nothing but revolution will cure the evils of the State) [secret societies] are necessary and indispensable, and the right to use them is inalienable by the people." --Thomas Jefferson to William Duane, 1803. FE 8:256

WallyG| 11.6.08 @ 10:20AM

After four decades of lib education in our schools that glorified communism and socialism and its methods our younger generation has no clue, knowledge or point of reference to how horrible these kinds of regimes are. The Clinton era gave us the first glimpse, an Obama thugocracy will be a prime example of the reasons there was a first American Revolution and why a Thomas Jefferson put these words into the Declaration of Independence:"...that whenever any form of government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the right of the people to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their safety and happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn(sic), that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such government, and to provide new guards for their future security..."

Rich| 11.6.08 @ 10:32AM

as good as communicator as Reagan ? thats a funny one.

the only thing that concerns me is the part about the fillibuster. Can someone tell me how realistic is that they can do that?

Kelly| 11.6.08 @ 10:41AM

Bob:

Why all the hostility against us - you seem quite happy with the election of Obama. Are you sure you're not a liberal in disguise? The left still seem to harbor anger towards Palin even though she lost - isn't that demonizing your opponents. You seem a little confused.

As for Obama being smart as Carter, let's see if a number of Americans would like to be hostages in Iran for 444 days - that was real smart, eh? Or what about LBJ - who ran up against frustration over Vietnam; too much federal spending and taxation; his Great Society programs - need I go on. Yes, I do - Clinton being politically adept I might be able to agree with, however the fact that he will always be remembered as lying under oath and "define sex" says it all. Now, let's get to the one that Obama is somewhat similar to and that is Reagan. Yes, Obama is a good communicator like Reagan although Reagan had a sense of humor which I doubt Obama has - he doesn't accept criticism well, he just gets rid of it or has the MSM do it for him. Yes, communication and transparency as something Obama is really good at (hint, that was sarcasm).

And as for the Obama governing from the center, his first cabinet position goes to Rahm Emanual - need I say anymore?? This is definitely change we can believe in.

I would love to address the rest of your concerns or complaints, however I must get to work and save what little I can for those who are waiting with their hands out. I'm not afraid of intelligence, tolerance, and education - be not afraid, nor let you heart be troubled. Pope John Paul II was right, but are you.

Bob| 11.6.08 @ 10:44AM

Wally, if you don't like public education, send your kids to private schools. Also convince your friends to get an education and teach. If you don't value education, you can't change it. Remember that heroes of the right are not examples of educated people -- like Rush and Hannity. In addition, people like McCain and Bush brag about their poor grades. There are a number of highly educated conservatives who should be the examples -- not those who spread hate and divisiveness. Frum, Bennett, Will, Brooks, Buckley are great examples of intelligent conservatives. The fact that you guys don't support people like that for high office is the problem. As for me, I value education and success thereto. That's why I initially supported Romney and couldn't support McCain/Palin. I cannot support those who will not be educated examples to our children. Leadership should be by example -- not complaint.

ray| 11.6.08 @ 10:47AM

Concerning the Fairness Doctrine,I would ask all members that want to enact it again,the following:"you admit that in Congress there is freedom to discuss,ponder,on all subjects,and to voice disapproval when they are in Session Debates,or votes,so there is complete freedom of speech,and you would call that fairness for all Members to be able to freely discuss matters,then why are you wanting the free citizens,the public,the citizenry,to not be able to have free talk radio,or free internet,those that are supposed to be as equal as you are,why are you wanting to muzzle them with the Fairness Doctrine,if we are as to be equal as members of Congress to be able to speak freely among themselves in debates,then the citizenry should also have the same Right to speak freely with one another on radio,or communicate freely on the internet.,should we?

John| 11.6.08 @ 10:49AM

Typical Quin. Do you have anything new to add? At all? Your contributions, from what I can discern, don't provide any depth, any insight, any thoughtfulness--only mercurial rants and doomsday reminders.

Well, thanks, but no thanks. If you want to throw yourself off a bridge, fine. After reading hacks like you, there are probably a good many others who want to dispatch themselves, also. But some of us don't think it's all over, so please, if you don't have anything constructive or new whatsoever to add to the conversation, stop retreading this crap.

We get it. Uncle!

Bob| 11.6.08 @ 11:04AM

Kelly, I have a lot of hostility against religious intolerents especially because I have personally faced anti-Semitism from that group. I would have liked to see Romney rather than Obama, but we don't need more idiots like McCain/Palin in the White House. Bush was enough.

You certainly missed my points regarding Obama's qualities and the totality of the remarks. Each of the Presidents I mentioned had specific strengths but not the entire package. That was the point. Obama does have the package and will thus govern to the center. I'd rather it be center right rather than center left, but I'll live with it.

Regarding Emanuel, it is clear that you don't know a lot about government. The Chief of Staff is not a Cabinet position, it is a gatekeeper/organizer for the President. This is more administrative and less a policy position. In fact, some Presidents have not named a Chief of Staff. You also have not studied up on Emanuel. He has worked in the White House, is respected by both sides of the isle, knows how to get things done, and is very close to Obama. This provides absolutely no indication of how Obama will govern. For that, we will have to see his Cabinet picks. These will be the heads of governmental agencies and have significant policy influence. As my judge of Obama's willingness to govern from the center, I look for at least 1/3 of the Cabinet to be Republicans. As far as I know, there haven't been more than 1 or 2 cabinet members of any Presidency in the opposing party for anyone in our history.

I see you used the Hannity quote as your closing statement. I listen to Hannity and I also listen to Olberman. Try it, you might learn something.

My anger is at my party which has lost its way and has become anti-intellectual, intolerant, hateful and has stepped over the line regarding church and state.

John M| 11.6.08 @ 11:08AM

Using the courts to suppress dissent is exactly what Hitler did to consolidate his power soon after he was elected. Like the Germans, we have been socially conditioned to obey the law so that once the judiciary is taken over and corrupted those in power can pretty can much do whatever they want. As far as banning guns, I don't think this will be attempted directly, at least not soon. It will be far easier to raise the excise tax on guns and ammunition to a point where it becomes prohibitively expensive, which I've read is on their agenda.

J David| 11.6.08 @ 11:17AM

Don't forget ENDA legislation, which, once passed, will be used by the Supremes at the national level to overturn the 27 state constitutions' bans on queer marriage(as well as then levying taxes on all churches/Christian radio and media that do not hire or accept participation in their organizations by practicing homosexuals). The dangers in which the Republic now finds itself (with the active participation/enabling of RINOs) are deep and dire indeed.

HiddenPaw| 11.6.08 @ 11:21AM

Abort the ObamaNation!

dukas| 11.6.08 @ 11:26AM

If you have not read ‘Prairie Fire’ by Bill Ayers read it and weep. zombietime.com . Print it up and pass it around. This is Obama’s Constitution. It spells out how Ayers and Dohrn help set up Black Liberation Theology, Acorn and it blueprints getting communist professors into schools to indoctrinate our children and how to quietly plant moles in our electoral system. In Ayers’ own words, how they plan to destroy America from the inside. All there for an evening’s read. The left have become brain dead since they replaced Christ’s salvation with their political ideology.
Trouble? You ain’t seen nothing yet.

Bob| 11.6.08 @ 11:28AM

SOCIAL CONSERVATIVES ARE THE REAL RINOS!!!!

By the way, the ENDA legislation exempts small businesses, churches, and the military... I've seen many marriages between a man and a woman that are very queer. In fact, more than half of them end in divorce.

JC| 11.6.08 @ 11:34AM

I bet they will try to tilt the system in their favor JUST LIKE WE DID. Remember Grover Norquist and Tom Delay's infamous "K Street Project" that was supposed to keep the Republicans in power "for a generation"? The best laid plans of mice and men....

JC| 11.6.08 @ 11:35AM

I bet they will try to tilt the system in their favor JUST LIKE WE DID. Remember Grover Norquist and Tom Delay's infamous "K Street Project" that was supposed to keep the Republicans in power "for a generation"? The best laid plans of mice and men....

RH| 11.6.08 @ 11:36AM

I do find some amusement in the circumstance that the Republican faithful see this as some sort of sports game where they take the role of gracious loser and then go back to the training camp and practice even harder for the next game. I simply do not know what it is going to take to make them and most other Americans realize that the whole system has changed. This is not something that can be rectified by electing a few individuals with grand expectations that they can "make a difference and bring change to Washington". The whole political system is corrupt to the core, all three branches. It has been massaged over time to be self-protecting and insulated. The peons are told that this is a nation "of the people" and that their votes and participation in the political process is what shapes our nation. BS!!! 535 individual, power hungry, narcissisists and their minions are in absolute control of over 300 million citizens.

Now we have no longer any illusion of a free Costitutional Republic, we have pure unadulterated Progressive/Socialism if not Marxism. We have a media that is basically the Press Office for those in control. A military that is marginalized via the budget process and political gerrymandering. And the new administration wants to form a Civil Security Force equal in size and funding to our beleagered military. If you people have not seen all this before, and it's results, then you were not paying attention in history class.

I am simply too old to go to war but am fully prepaired to fight since this war has been brought right to my doorstep. I await that "Paul Revere" type that will shout out a "Call to arms , The Socialists are coming! The Socialists are coming!"
Now, Americans are going to appreciate the real reason and purpose , in all their wisdom, our founders left us with the 2nd Amendment.

George| 11.6.08 @ 11:46AM

Many of the folks on the far Left were convinced that George W. Bush and John Cheney were going to suspend the constitution and create a fascist Christian Theocracy. Hundreds of thousands of people believed that. They really did! And I'm sure this generated needless fear and anxiety on their part. (Last I heard, Bush and Cheney were still on schedule to comfortably retire in January -- each with a nice six figure pension. If Bush and Cheney want to create a Theocracy, they need to act quickly.)

Now I find myself worrying about a repressive Obama Thugocracy, complete with a national Gestapo-like police force. Am I becoming just as crazy as the conspiracy kooks on the Left? Probably.

I think it's time to go on a fishing trip before the lakes freeze over. While the Autumn colors are still beautiful.

phillip m| 11.6.08 @ 12:12PM

Bob - Hi.
I'm Polish American and my fiance is Ukrainian. During the winter of 1932 - 1933 the Soviet Communists and when I mean Soviet Communists I mean Jew heavy Soviet Communists stole at gunpoint all wealth and food
from the Ukrainians who they felt weren't handing their wealth and food over fast enough. Eight million people perished over that winter because of that action. Over the years, every American child has been taught about the Holocaust but not about the Holodomor. Why did this happen? Everyone knows why this happened. People see through this right away. This is where anti Semitism comes from.

Bob - What is tolerance exactly? That's a trick question. Tolerance doesn't have a definition at least one that lasts from day to day. Quite frankly, if i ask you on Monday what tolerance is, I'll get one answer. If I ask you on Tuesday, I'll get another definition and the the real beauty of the matter. Tolerance? Last time I checked Hindus were burning the homes of Christians and Muslims doing the same and cutting off our heads. You just want Christians to be tolerant, but not any one else.

Bob - Robert Mugabe is an intellectual. He has a Ph.d. He's also the world's greatest anti racist. This is world you have created for us and why we and the rest of humanity have tos top you. If you are in our party, please leave.

P

Free Bill White| 11.6.08 @ 12:26PM

Couldn't happen to a nicer, more deserving bunch of neo-kahns.

Marc Jeric| 11.6.08 @ 12:27PM

Obama and his ACORN thugs remind one of Hitler and his brown shirts. Does anyone know the real name of Hitler's party? It was "Deutsche Nazional-Sozialistische Arbeiter Partei" - that's "German National-Socialist Workers Party" in English. And those self-called "liberals" call us conservatives "Nazis"? "Liberals" are in fact the revolutionary marxists led by a new Lenin from Chicago corrupt political swamps.

stphdys| 11.6.08 @ 12:38PM

Nice try. We already knew that you repubs would be laying the ground work for the general public to over look the thuguery held in your voting machine schemes that actually can turn election with as many as 4 districts per state, and filter that info to Tennesse and back to them with fewer votes. That's fraud. You people have already tried to dumb down your constituants which isn't hard to do considering so many people wer willing to cast their vote for Palin. We will continue to bring your treachery
to lite.

opal`| 11.6.08 @ 1:13PM

Dear stphdys,

Did you learn any grammar or spelling at your public school? Your 2 unintelligible posts were perfect reinforcements for my continuing to self educate our large and ever growing brood of children.

Quite simply put, there is very little hope for the conservative movement in the future as long as people continue to place their children in a public school system that was set up, in order to teach children to become passive, unquestioning vessels-the perfect workers for Rockefeller and Carnegie. Now that system is being controlled by Marxists of the Alinsky type, who want nothing more than to start the brainwashing at ever younger ages in order to perfect the process in preschool. The only hope for this country's future is in the several million children who are home educated, and allowed the freedom of thought that the public school system so completely suppresses.

opal| 11.6.08 @ 1:14PM

correction....
The only hope for this country's future are in the several million children who are home educated,

Frank Citizen| 11.6.08 @ 1:21PM

I still believe in the U.S. Constitution and for what it stands for. Its the corruption of mankind that is bring this country down. We need to turn back to God and the Bible.

Tom Paine| 11.6.08 @ 1:38PM

Mr Hillyer

I'd be interested to hear what you had to say about Todd Palin's membership in a truly radical and traitorous organization -- one that actually endorses secession.

State secession is to date the most profound act of treason in our history. The last time it happened, you'll recall, about three quarters of a million Americans died fighting over the issue.

The weird bigotry and hysterical ignorance coming from the far right fringes is boring and depressing, but not a very big threat to the growing consensus that the government needs to act in concert to pull this country out of what could be the worst recession in many decades.

Gretchen| 11.6.08 @ 1:44PM

If Obama's selection of Rahm Emanuel is anything to go by, then heaven help the conservatives in this country! One can't help but wonder just how long The American Spectator, The Heritage Foundation, The American Enterpeise Institute, and, yes, the Republican Party itself will be permitted to continue to exist. How long it will be before they are ruthlessly extirpated, and the USA becomes the USSSA (the United Soviet Socialist States of Amerika)!

Tom Paine| 11.6.08 @ 1:47PM

Opal --

If you knew anything about public education you'd know that tens of thousands of hard working Americans give their lives to educate young people in our schools.

Our society has sloughed the functions of nearly every cultural and societal institution onto the schools.

If boring ideological hacks like you would get out of the way, and schools were to be funded like our future depended on them (which it does), we'd be doing a great deal better.

Now, while you moaning about something about which you know next to nothing, let me point out our public university system is the envy of the world. We're doing some things quite well, thank you.

But grade schools need to be retooled, refunded, and reformed for the 21st century.

Yesterday we elected a president capable of doing that. And no we're not going to start teaching Creationism or any other superstitions in the schools. You can do that on your own in sunday school if you wish.

Anthony| 11.6.08 @ 1:48PM

I was seeing Alinsky Red (pun intended) yesterday after Lisa Fabrizio's article with Rose and Brokaw musing about how little they know about the man they created and got elected. Today on Rush, listening to them and Ethan Thomas of Newseek, whom you remember was removed from CNN, I believe, for outright lies about happenings in Iraq, including his delusional reporting that reporters were being fired upon by American troops. (oh, if only it were true!!) Funny how this nut job ends up back in the MSM at Newweek. Talk about a clique of elites!! Anyway, these Alinsky dupes covered for Obama and refused to report what we've been talking about for months, yet the MSM looks down on talk radio and the internet. These whores shilled for Obama, covered for Obama and attacked others on his behalf. If they weren't covered by the First Amendment, they should all be sued for journalistic malpractice. But we can perform our own justice, and have, we need to turn off the t.v's and cancel all subscriptions to national publications that are responsible for all this. Brokaw: If you monitor conservative web sites, know this: You and your leftist media ilk are a disgrace.

Tom Paine| 11.6.08 @ 1:48PM

Opal --

If you knew anything about public education you'd know that tens of thousands of hard working Americans give their lives to educate young people in our schools.

Our society has sloughed the functions of nearly every cultural and societal institution onto the schools.

If boring ideological hacks like you would get out of the way, and schools were to be funded like our future depended on them (which it does), we'd be doing a great deal better.

Now, while you moaning about something about which you know next to nothing, let me point out our public university system is the envy of the world. We're doing some things quite well, thank you.

But grade schools need to be retooled, refunded, and reformed for the 21st century.

Yesterday we elected a president capable of doing that. And no we're not going to start teaching Creationism or any other superstitions in the schools. You can do that on your own in sunday school if you wish.

Tom Paine| 11.6.08 @ 1:50PM

Gretchen --

You're either stupid or paranoid.

You honestly believe Obama will try to abolish the Republican party.

What a joke. No wonder you people lost the election. The American people are sick of idiots running this country into the ground.

For the others still willing to listen to reason:

I assure you the Republican party and conservative movement are going to be just fine under an Obama administration. You have nothing to fear.

Tom Paine| 11.6.08 @ 1:50PM

Gretchen --

You're either stupid or paranoid.

You honestly believe Obama will try to abolish the Republican party.

What a joke. No wonder you people lost the election. The American people are sick of idiots running this country into the ground.

For the others still willing to listen to reason:

I assure you the Republican party and conservative movement are going to be just fine under an Obama administration. You have nothing to fear.

Tom Paine| 11.6.08 @ 1:50PM

Gretchen --

You're either stupid or paranoid.

You honestly believe Obama will try to abolish the Republican party.

What a joke. No wonder you people lost the election. The American people are sick of idiots running this country into the ground.

For the others still willing to listen to reason:

I assure you the Republican party and conservative movement are going to be just fine under an Obama administration. You have nothing to fear.

Tom Paine| 11.6.08 @ 1:55PM

DD Supporter

You enjoy yourself at that David Duke rally, brother. Do you guys have to pay for those sheets you wear, or do they hand them out for free?

Will you be burning a cross, or just holding a good old fashion lynch mob?

Hey, you'll be in Memphis?

Isn't that where that Elvis Presley guy is from? You know, that Elvis, he's trying to get our young people to listen to that negro music.

Before you know it, they'll be dancing just like black people and even wanted to get married to them. Imagine. A black man marrying your daughter. Unthinkable.

You David Duke people ought to do something about that while you're up there in Memphis.

George Connolly| 11.6.08 @ 2:01PM

phillip m

I'm glad that you are a Republican. I feel honored to know you are on my team. You make excellent points and make them clearly. I agree entirely.

Quin Hillyer| 11.6.08 @ 2:06PM

Until we can take it off the site, for the record, I utterly denounce that response post by the David Duke supporter. I spent three years of my life working in a fairly prominent position in the fight against that neo-Nazi. Please do not pollute this space with his hateful message or name.

Katie| 11.6.08 @ 2:18PM

Why can't a discussion of facts ever be made without drawing in race?

J.J. Sefton| 11.6.08 @ 2:19PM

Aside from the ass-clownery going on (DD supporter), this is serious. If the nightmare scenario plays out - a liberal dictatorship - there will be a civil war, and most if not all of the military backing the side that supports the 2nd amendment (post it's abolition).

I do tend to think that their own in-fighting will be their undoing, hopefully no later than 2010.

Sean| 11.6.08 @ 2:26PM

Tom Paine,
You're right, we will be just fine under an Obama administration. His socialist policies are going to energize us like you wish Obama had energized the Dems. Have fun continuing to perpetuate his lies about governing from the middle.

Bob| 11.6.08 @ 2:28PM

Philip --

I did study the holodomor in school -- PUBLIC SCHOOL. You hate the Jews and probably also blame the Jews for Jesus' death. (You sounds like Hitler, don't you). Most historians estimate the death total at about half that my relatives suffered in the holocaust, but a life is a life.

The bigotry you have against non-Christian religions is an example of the intolerance we don't need in the Republican party or the U.S. To set the record straight, Hitler claimed that he was a Christian -- just like you. You may want to argue otherwise, but this came directly from him. So please don't give me any of this nonsense that Christianity is any better than any other religion. (I seem to remember the Crusades and the Inquisition as well.)

Philip, YOU are the problem with the Republican party and the true RINO.

You are welcome to leave it and start the "Christian Conservative Party".

Anthony| 11.6.08 @ 2:30PM

Yes,, Gretchen, fear not, the Republicans and Conservatives will thrive under Obama, so says Obama's apparent aide- de -camp of Obama's National Civilian Security Force, Tom Paine. Yes, Obama has enlisted Comrade Paine to assure us at TAS that all will be well. I don't know about you all, but the warm and fuzzy feelings haven't quite kicked in. But Tom, who has recently joined us at TAS, tells us all is well, so why should we worry? After all, Tom does speak for Obama, right? No Gretchen, contrary to comrade Paine's ad hominem attacks on you, you are neither paraniod nor stupid. Comrade Paine however, may be suffering from a bit of projection. I bet he can't wait to get the official brown shirt and jackboot attire of the NCSF.

elle| 11.6.08 @ 2:31PM

Bob, or should I say Boob? -
I susupected you as a fraud from your initial post; that suspicion was cemented in your subsequent posts. No one who has truly been a republican for 40 years as you claim would even think of using the word "demonization" in conjunction with Limbaugh and Hannity, much less "hatred" and "intolerance" when referring to the party as a whole. Using the word "queer" when referring to heterosexuals was the final give-away. When will you wacky liberals ever learn that we know our own and can spot you a mile away?

Bob| 11.6.08 @ 2:34PM

Sean, you don't seem to understand that we are already a socialistic republic. Socialism was introduced with social security, medicare, progressive tax rates and public education. If you are against socialism, then you also need to get rid of those programs. Are you really against socialism?

Tongue in cheek aside, when you discuss socialism without understanding it, then you show why the Republican party is declining. Please get an education....

Bob| 11.6.08 @ 2:42PM

Elle, I can assure you I am a registered Republican. I see you can't read very well -- I indicated that BOTH sides demonize the other. And yes, both Rush and Hannity constantly demonize Obama and other Democrats. They also demonized McCain early on. That is their "schtick" and you lemmings fall right onto it. On the other side, Olberman does many of the same things but a bit less name calling. They both show levels of intolerance -- and so do you.

I used the word "queer" as a tongue in cheek response to someone elses post....

A lot of us have problems with the Republican Party today. I'm in the same group as Colin Powell, Ken Duberstein, Lincoln Chafee, Susan Collins, etc. Please stop being so intolerant.

Dale| 11.6.08 @ 2:43PM

Bob,

Your posts are very readable and sound, but I would be careful about claiming to know how Obama will govern when you have only a vague idea, at best, who he is and what he believes. I am of the opinion that it is better to be cautious, don't discount the person before he/she has had the opportunity to demonstrate what they are going to do, kind of like trust but verify.

Weave| 11.6.08 @ 2:44PM

We have two functional parties in this cuntry (sic): the Slightly More Socialistic Party (aka the Dems) and the Slightly Less Socialistic Party (aka the Reps.) On Tuesday, ALL the SLSPs got spanked, all the way down to state and local levels. I think one blogger put it best: The guy who was not the Republican beat the ghost of Dubya.

Harry B| 11.6.08 @ 2:45PM

These are the Rules For Radicals right out of the Saul Alinsky Playbook. Look for the Obama Administration to use them as their playbook also.

Some of these rules are ruthless, but they work. Here are the rules to be aware of:
RULE 1: "Power is not only what you have, but what the enemy thinks you have." Power is derived from 2 main sources - money and people. "Have-Nots" must build power from flesh and blood. (These are two things of which there is a plentiful supply. Government and corporations always have a difficult time appealing to people, and usually do so almost exclusively with economic arguments.)
RULE 2: "Never go outside the expertise of your people." It results in confusion, fear and retreat. Feeling secure adds to the backbone of anyone. (Organizations under attack wonder why radicals don't address the "real" issues. This is why. They avoid things with which they have no knowledge.)
RULE 3: "Whenever possible, go outside the expertise of the enemy." Look for ways to increase insecurity, anxiety and uncertainty. (This happens all the time. Watch how many organizations under attack are blind-sided by seemingly irrelevant arguments that they are then forced to address.)
RULE 4: "Make the enemy live up to its own book of rules." If the rule is that every letter gets a reply, send 30,000 letters. You can kill them with this because no one can possibly obey all of their own rules. (This is a serious rule. The besieged entity's very credibility and reputation is at stake, because if activists catch it lying or not living up to its commitments, they can continue to chip away at the damage.)
RULE 5: "Ridicule is man's most potent weapon." There is no defense. It's irrational. It's infuriating. It also works as a key pressure point to force the enemy into concessions. (Pretty crude, rude and mean, huh? They want to create anger and fear.)
RULE 6: "A good tactic is one your people enjoy." They'll keep doing it without urging and come back to do more. They're doing their thing, and will even suggest better ones. (Radical activists, in this sense, are no different that any other human being. We all avoid "un-fun" activities, and but we revel at and enjoy the ones that work and bring results.)
RULE 7: "A tactic that drags on too long becomes a drag." Don't become old news. (Even radical activists get bored. So to keep them excited and involved, organizers are constantly coming up with new tactics.)
RULE 8: "Keep the pressure on. Never let up." Keep trying new things to keep the opposition off balance. As the opposition masters one approach, hit them from the flank with something new. (Attack, attack, attack from all sides, never giving the reeling organization a chance to rest, regroup, recover and re-strategize.)
RULE 9: "The threat is usually more terrifying than the thing itself." Imagination and ego can dream up many more consequences than any activist. (Perception is reality. Large organizations always prepare a worst-case scenario, something that may be furthest from the activists' minds. The upshot is that the organization will expend enormous time and energy, creating in its own collective mind the direst of conclusions. The possibilities can easily poison the mind and result in demoralization.)
RULE 10: "If you push a negative hard enough, it will push through and become a positive." Violence from the other side can win the public to your side because the public sympathizes with the underdog. (Unions used this tactic. Peaceful [albeit loud] demonstrations during the heyday of unions in the early to mid-20th Century incurred management's wrath, often in the form of violence that eventually brought public sympathy to their side.)
RULE 11: "The price of a successful attack is a constructive alternative." Never let the enemy score points because you're caught without a solution to the problem. (Old saw: If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the problem. Activist organizations have an agenda, and their strategy is to hold a place at the table, to be given a forum to wield their power. So, they have to have a compromise solution.)
RULE 12: Pick the target, freeze it, personalize it, and polarize it." Cut off the support network and isolate the target from sympathy. Go after people and not institutions; people hurt faster than institutions. (This is cruel, but very effective. Direct, personalized criticism and ridicule works.)

Crippy| 11.6.08 @ 2:55PM

Maybe that's why the Obama supports were waving the hammer and sickle after his election. Plans for a new flag?
http://crippy.me/2008/11/05/obama-supporters-wave-soviet-flag.aspx

Bob| 11.6.08 @ 2:56PM

Dale, I agree with you 100%. I am overstating the case a bit to provide balance against those who have the opposite view. We will find out how Obama will govern, but if you notice, today he got to Pelosi and she issued a statement about governing from the center. I'm betting that he understands history and knows that governing too far to the left will have disasterous consequences. He will have a mind-heart conflict, since his natural tendency would be to go too far left. But he talks about what people will say about his presidency in 100 years and that will force his mind to the center.

We'll find out how serious he is with the selection of his cabinet. I'm betting at least 3 Republicans will be there including Gates and two others. I expect Richardson to be the Sec State. Furthermore, I'm expecting he'll treat the Democratic and Republican representatives equally.

I could well be wrong, but I've studied the guy and believe him to be a pragmatist.

elle| 11.6.08 @ 2:57PM

Poor Boob -
Thanks for "edumacating" me that pointing out someone is a liberal is being intolerant. I was just following your lead. If I give you my mailing address will you send me a copy of your extra special dictionary of redefinitions?

Bob| 11.6.08 @ 2:59PM

Harry B -- I thought that was the Rush Limbaugh field manual.... Read through it again, you'll see...

JPP| 11.6.08 @ 3:00PM

Exactly right. Most people do not even know who Saul Alinsky was and what Barry Hussein's relationship with Alinsky devotees is.

Barry is a radical who uses smooth, calming words to spread his agenda. What is that agenda? Well to put it simply. Big, Bigger, Biggest GOVERNMENT. The "masses" are best "ruled" by a small clique of "experts" in government.

That's what many in Europe and around the world believe. The Spirit of '76, the American Revolution is all but kaput.

Kristen| 11.6.08 @ 3:01PM

To Bob:
Tolerance is the fruit of indifference.

To Opal:
Much agreed. "The educational philosophy of one generation will be the governmental philosophy of the next." We are reaping what we have sowed in a public school system founded by men who were admittedly socialists and whose goal it was to undermine the principles of liberty through the classroom. The ONLY way conservatism will ever truly win is if we educate our little boys and girls in the Judeo-Christian principles our forefathers crafted into our founding documents and institutions. We must employ an offensive battle while we continue on the defensive front. "Will" we do it? It is never a matter of "can." If great desire and passion are guided with knowledge and moved by discipline, we can. But will we?

And Mr. Paine
Public schools do teach some subjects well, and many students become great citizens. But, we can always do better, and money is not the answer. So many taxpayer dollars are wasted in our school system. (As we have all witnessed, the government has issues handling anything in a fiscally responsible manner.) More important than math and grammar are the philosophies and principles we impart to our children—that is my greatest concern. It is obvious that we differ in our ideology.

Tom Paine| 11.6.08 @ 3:11PM

Folks,

I am your true liberal guest at the Am. Spect. I try to be polite and remember I'm only a guest. I enjoy reading many of your posts.

As a liberal, I fear the following:

1. You run a candidate like McCain (independently minded war hero) who chooses a conservative Democrat or a liberal, female Republican as a running mate. If you guys had done that this time, I'd be crying in my chablis right now, and you all'd be hootin' and celebratin' like a mo fo.

2. You expel the anti-intellectual faux-populists from your midst. The people who bray proudly that they don't read newspapers, that they hate journalists and scientists, and so on. William F Buckley was an educated, cultured, and culturally elitist man, and yet he -- together with Milton Friedman (an academic) a few others -- founded your movement.

3. Related to #2 -- you expel the numbskulls, Neanderthals, and nitwits from your midst: the people who honk and hoot and hoot about Obama being a "terrorist" or who talk about carpet bombing random Muslim countries that they couldn't even find on a map. The American people saw through that nonsense this time, and they will next time, too.

4. You demote Rush Limbaugh and Sean Hannity in favor of David Brooks, George F Will, and any number of the more thoughtful conservative writers on your side. If you want to become the modern incarnation of the John Birch Society, go right ahead -- Obama'll have nothing to fear in 2012.

Best of luck to you, either way.

John McCain's concession speech was one of the best, gutsiest, most honorable speeches I've ever heard a politician give. You should be proud your party ran the best man it had.

Dale| 11.6.08 @ 3:14PM

Bob,

That is interesting that you have studied Obama. Other than two books he supposedly wrote about himself, I don't know of any third party source material that would provide enough information on Obama to come to the conclusion that he is a pragmatist.

Bob| 11.6.08 @ 3:15PM

Kristen...

See this site and see your statement discussed:

http://www.religioustolerance.org/rel_tol8.htm

We all tend to define statements in our own image. You see religious tolerance as bad because it means that your specific religion could not then be deemed as better. However, our Constitution protects religious freedom and is thus tolerant of all religions. That is the difference between a "Christian Nation" and a "Nation of mostly Christians". The problem with people who believe in intolerance as it relates to their own religion is that they've now headed down that slippery slope that justifies intolerance in everything. If you take that to negative images, then it is called demonization.

Intolerance may have validity as it pertains to your religion, but has no place in the public square.

calcasieu| 11.6.08 @ 3:19PM

sounds like bob is projecting his own intolerance - religious and otherwise - onto others here

Granny3| 11.6.08 @ 3:21PM

DD Supporter,
You have the right to say what you like. However, don't expect anyone to agree with you or like anything that you say. I am surprised you are commenting here when most of our citizens despise the KKK. I spent some time in the early 60's (before the destructo children ruined everything) protesting for blacks to have the same opportunities as everyone else in this country. I would have preferred the first President of color to be a conservative, but it is a history-making decision. White people do not need David Dukes to speak for us.

Tom Paine
You needn't make fun of Gretchen - too many on the left seem to think you have to have an formal education to be intelligent. Well, I am neither ignorant nor stupid, and I have a great many misgivings about what will happen to conservatives, particularly Christain ones, in the next eight years. I read blogs of all kinds and the common thread is a dislike/hatred of Christianity from most on the left and several on the right. We are the easiest targets in this society, never mind that most of the creators were Christians or Deists. I do think about those citizen army folks who will be in the right spot to move us out to re-education camps.
We'll just watch and wait.

Bob| 11.6.08 @ 3:22PM

Dale, there are more than books available today with the advent of the internet. Put "obama pragmatic" in Google and you can read a number of articles.

I also believe that Obama surrounds himself with older, highly educated men (including Wright) because he has a missing father complex. That also explains his choice of Biden.

People tend to maintain their same behavior and don't often change.

Ned| 11.6.08 @ 3:22PM

"You don't win over the majority of people with hate and demonization -- you win them over with policy, vision, and communication."

Bob you are ignoring the Democrats playbook, the above is all it contains. They have shown you can win a majority with this strategy; however its presence is fleeting. Using policy, vision, and communication wins over a minority, however its presence is more permanent.

Bob| 11.6.08 @ 3:35PM

calcasieu you are right... I am intolerant of intolerance....

Granny, it is religious tolerance that lets you be a Christian in the first place. I don't want you to be any less religious, only to take your specific religion out of politics. You don't need to fear people like me because out of the public square I believe religion is important. I am for vouchers as long as they're for schools that provide the basics in math, science, language, and history. I believe that religious after school groups should be able to use public facilities like any other group. I have fought religious intolerance all my life.

Harry B| 11.6.08 @ 3:38PM

Bob.......... If you are correct, then Saul Alinsky must have been a Rush Limbaugh fan.

political hack| 11.6.08 @ 3:41PM

President Obama's first priority is to consolidate power. He has a deadline of 2010 to try to remake Washington as much like a Chicago-style machine as possible.

BTW, the AM Radio spectrum is more valuable auctioned off to digital purposes. It is as obsolete as non digital TV. "Fairness Doctrine" is simply to cover to eliminate AM radio altogether.

Mr. Hillyer is quite right, the rules will change. The American people voted for change. The changes will tilt the playing field. In the same way that the stock market cannot rise without capitulation at the bottom, both Conservatives and Republicans have to take the first step and admit defeat. Life will not be the same again.

Weave| 11.6.08 @ 3:56PM

Maybe I missed something somewhere, but in all the brouhaha (great word) about Alinsky's "Rules for Radicals" I've been reading and hearing about for weeks, has any conservative commentator considered the possibility that these "rules" can just as well be used _by conservatives_ for their own ends? I have read Alinsky's book and from what I recall of it, most of his rules can be applied by almost any political faction even if he didn't intend it to be so.

Daniel wilson| 11.6.08 @ 4:01PM

>>it is religious tolerance that lets you be a Christian in the first place.

No, Bob. Christianity's greatest growth has been in times and places of religious persecution. Doubt me? Check out Nero's application of religious tolerance.

Daniel Wilson| 11.6.08 @ 4:05PM

>>I do think about those citizen army folks who will be in the right spot to move us out to re-education camps.

Far-fetched ... but ... what DOES Obama have in mind for these people?

If they DO try to move us to re-education camps, they better take our guns first -- from my cold dead hands!

Dennis D| 11.6.08 @ 4:05PM

The best way to defeat them is to let them be liberals. Other than the Fairness Doctrine do not filibuster anything. Vote against but let them move rapidly to the extreme left as Clinton attempted to do in 1992. Fighting them will force them to the center where it will be tougher to defeat them in 2 years.

TB| 11.6.08 @ 4:08PM

Speaking of a general, why not Patreaus?

Dennis D| 11.6.08 @ 4:08PM

Why doesn't anyone ever ask Chuck Schumer if he believes in Genesis from his Torah? Or Feinstein if she believes Israel has a lease from God? They always try to belittle Christians and never Jews? Why?

Daniel Wilson| 11.6.08 @ 4:09PM

>>I'm betting that he understands history and knows that governing too far to the left will have disasterous consequences. He will have a mind-heart conflict, since his natural tendency would be to go too far left.

Bob, I hope you're right there. Not too sure ... but I hope so.

merle| 11.6.08 @ 4:10PM

"Gird your loins" everyone.

This article is exactly how I've been afraid things will happen.

Long term, one sure way to undermine the left if it gets too far in its goals is to stash as much wealth as you can (at home if necessary to keep the government's hands off of it), then try to downsize into as low an income as you can manage to live. If large wage earners (job creators/taxpayers) disappear fast enough to tank our economy under The One, they won't last as long as they want.

Get a weapon and lots of ammo while you can, stay quiet, and hunker down.

These are my plans for if it gets bad.

Be vigilant and take care of yourself and family.

Deport_H1B_Now| 11.6.08 @ 4:11PM

So, who's fault is it?

It's the American peoples fault for not getting out into the streets and holding massive, violent, demonstrations.

Every freedom loving decent American should get out into the street and demonstrate, violently, to deport this "foreign Negro Terrorist", Obama. As long as you don't all hope is lost. Obama is an Anchor baby according to the 14th Amendment. His citizenship is merely ink on paper.

lv4921391| 11.6.08 @ 4:13PM

Gird your loins...BHO is a disciple of Saul D. Alinsky (Rules for Radicals)...BHO is a friend of Calypso Louie aka Louis Farrakhan, other friends include William Ayers, Jeremiah Wright, Tony Rezko, Frank Davis , Bermardine Dohrn, Rashid Khalidi, Father Pfleger. Why are these his friends, could it be that he used them and they used him. He gave (in both Senates, ILL and Congress) earmarks to them or their organizations. Not important you say ? He gave an earmark to the hospital his wife ,Michelle, worked at..the hospital gave her a knuckle busting salary bump from 116,000 to 316,000 , same job btw, still not important you say ? BHO taught at ACORN (Saul Alinsky's techniques) not important you say ? Already today Russia has warned BHO about putting in missles (think BHO might get "tested" sometime) not important you say?
That spinning noise you hear are 40 dead presidents in their graves. But the mortgage meltdown was the straw that broke the camel's back? 99% of it can be laid at the foot of the Democrats, going back to the formation of Fannie Mae...yet it was blamed on the GOP by clever MSM convenient fools... Wall street excesses you say ? about 89% of the beneficaries are Democrats...not important you say ? girl your loins, we're entering "interesting times" will we be a nation after it ? possibly.

Martha Stanford| 11.6.08 @ 4:19PM

From someone with experience with sociopaths: everyone should investigate the definition of sociopathology, and its variations. Charisma can hide much evil very well.

John| 11.6.08 @ 4:19PM

Bob,
Actually, I think Becky's observation about scientists was very insightful and likely right on the mark. My wife is a Ph.D.-holding research scientist at a large university and I interact regularly with many of her colleagues. Almost every single one of them is vocally supportive of Obama. Obama campaign buttons on lab coats were not an uncommon sight. This same strong support for all things liberal was also prevalent at the institution from which she earned her Ph.D., to the point that conservatives would be sought out for political harassment. A mis-step or mis-statement by President Bush, for example, would assure that in short order a breathless liberal scientist from somewhere in the building would arrive to gloat and ridicule.

Neither my wife nor I know "hundreds of scientists", but among the scores that we do know, there is definite and observable tilt to the left. This actually makes sense since they rely overwhelmingly on the government for their livelihood (federally-funded research programs are the paving stones of tenure). Also, university-based scientists are, first and foremost, academics and thus frequently tainted by an air of left-wing elitism and intellectual snobbery that they feel they must affect to "fit in" at the academy. For one to say something at a gathering of these academics like "Sarah Palin seems to have done a good job as governor of Alaska" will, at best, bring sneering laughter and dismissive commentary, or, at worst, doom one with the promotions and tenure committee (probably both, actually). These people, supposedly grounded in objectivity, dismiss dissenting viewpoints with statements like "Please get an education..." Actually, Bob, they sound a lot like you.

My point is that the notion of the “whacky, left-wing, no-dissenters-allowed college professor” is not just a phony caricature fabricated by conservatives, and its reality is not confined only to the liberal arts department. It is pervasive in the sciences as well. I would very much like to meet just one of the hundreds of scientist you know who disdain politics – it would be a very refreshing experience.

Lone patriot| 11.6.08 @ 4:25PM

rebellion
Open, armed, and organized resistance to a constituted government.
An act or a show of defiance toward an authority or established convention.
[Middle English, from Old French, from Latin rebelliō, rebelliōn-, from rebellāre, to rebel.
Organized opposition intended to change or overthrow existing authority: insurgence, insurgency, insurrection, mutiny, revolt, revolution, sedition, uprising. See resist/yield.
Every act of rebellion expresses a nostalgia for innocence. — Albert Camus (1913-1960)

RH| 11.6.08 @ 4:26PM

political hack says " Life will not be the same again."

It was never meant to be static, only dynamic. Bob talks as if our founders didn't let their religiosty influence their views while establishing this Republic. If that is the belief, then it is pure revisionism and has no basis in fact. That they elected to put in place the establishment clause does not mean they left their own faith based views at home. Reading is fundemental Bob. Try it. And if you think that those who let their religious views shape their political views is wrong, thats okay as Mr. Obama and the Progressive/Socialist Democrats spent millions to attract those very people to their socio/political ideology and were reasonbly successful. If you honestly believe that the GOP can survive and flourish without that very same constituency, you are nieve to the absurd. Although I am fully convinced that only a complete and thorough watering of the Tree of Liberty will ever get this nation back on track, I will not cast my lot with the GOP regardless of how they restructure themselves. They had the entire Congress and the White House and they simply morphed into Democratic Lite. It is either some 3rd party or complete and total disenfranchisement for me at this juncture. at age 66, I have no doubt I will not see America ever regain her former glory and status before I pass on. The public Indoctination System (you refer to it as the Public Education System) has seen to that. The old, long dead nazi himself was right, "give me the children and I will rule the world!" that he personally failed at it does not mean that the premise is any less true and applicable to our current situation.

Ed | 11.6.08 @ 4:36PM

I will be waiting for the extreme in Obamaism. With the Congressional majority, the liberal courts on his side, and the love and admiration of the American people how long will it take Obama to overturn the 22nd Admendment aloowing him to serve more than 2 terms?

uc| 11.6.08 @ 4:41PM

I agree with many of the previous posts drawing parallels between Obama's expected governance and that of Hitler and 1930's Germany. I know that 55 million voted against this man (47%). And if the time comes in will be those 55 million voices that will be heard. Most of us do not contribute to the political zoo. Most of us work hard for our families, own small businesses or work for big ones, and generally focus more on life then on politicking. And it is because of our staunch reliance on ourselves, and not a nanny state, that we will can turn back anything this liberal can throw at us. Stay strong and defend our American Conservative principles. Never give up. God Speed.

Lonny| 11.6.08 @ 4:41PM

Personally, I plan on volunteering for the new civilian security force. All conservative should. Infiltrate, adapt and overcome.

Darcy2| 11.6.08 @ 4:42PM

Dear Bob,

The Republican Party tolerates the conservative base only because without us it could not compete against its nearest cousins, the Democrats. Meanwhile, the conservative base has been snookered into thinking that without the Republican Party its ideas would have no chance of realization in a country now so determinedly socialist and blatantly tolerant of everything except Christians. You will find out!

You conveniently forget or choose to ignore the respect for and/or Christian values of our Founders.

The vestiges of that worldview reside now in the conservative base you so loudly disparage -- and to your shame, in my opinion.

And bring on your criticisms of me, I don't care. I know your kind and I do not cower under your withering glare nor your condescension.

The David Brooks, Colin Powells, David Frums, Christopher Buckleys -- and you -- can have the Republican Party. I want no future part in it.

Try winning elections without us. I recognize that the Party has masterfully manipulated us to its own advantage. And what have we gotten out of it for being used? Arrogant disdain from people like you.

Bob| 11.6.08 @ 4:43PM

John, I believe the reason that academics are primarily "liberal" (I don't like these simplistic labels) is because the Republican party has a distinct anti-intelligence viewpoint. Invite some of your wife's cohorts to dinner and instead of discussing liberal vs. conservative, discuss the size and spending of government, moral imperatives, whether they want government to tell them how they should live their lives, etc. In my experience, you'll find more agreement than you think. When the Republican party embraces intelligence and education and not just rigid belief, you'll see the party grow. We have to stop putting forth low performing candidates like Bush, McCain, and Palin. Romney and Jindal are examples of Republicans who could expand the party. I've heard today from Fox that Palin didn't know who was in NATO, who was in NAFTA, and that Africa was a continent not a country. We know she doesn't understand the supreme court or the Constitution. Do you really want idiots like that running the country?

MiddleWest Bitter Clinger| 11.6.08 @ 4:43PM

Anyone want to consider that Bob is an Obamaite? Argues for tolerance, acceptance. Argues against strength, clarity, moral grounding. Hi Bob, you are an Obamaite - weak, unethical, dishonest. Have a nice day!

Bobby| 11.6.08 @ 4:43PM

The "Fourth Estate is already a "Fifth Column" in this Nation. From coast to coast, whatever major paper to care to cite, are nothing but liars and hypocrits. They edit, censor, and play with the truth as if the truth wasn't worth horse sh-t to them. And indeed, it isn't.

Bob| 11.6.08 @ 4:50PM

Darcy, you are showing revisionist history of our founding fathers. Here's what they actually said:

"Lighthouses are more helpful than churches."
--Ben Franklin, Poor Richard's Almanack, 1758

"Ecclesiastical establishments tend to great ignorance and corruption, all of which facilitate the execution of mischievous projects."
--James Madison, letter to William Bradford, January 1774

"Religious bondage shackles and debilitates the mind and unfits it for every noble enterprise, every expanded prospect."
--James Madison, letter to William Bradford, April 1, 1774
". . . no man shall be compelled to frequent or support any religious worship, place, or ministry whatsoever, nor shall be enforced, restrained, molested, or burthened in his body or goods, nor shall otherwise suffer, on account of his religious opinions or belief; but that all men shall be free to profess, and by argument to maintain, their opinions in matters of religion, and that the same shall in no wise diminish, enlarge, or affect their civil capacities."
—Thomas Jefferson, Virginia Statute for Religious Freedom, 1779

"Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason, than that of blind-folded fear."
--Thomas Jefferson, letter, 1787

"As to Jesus of Nazareth, my opinion of whom you particularly desire, I think the system of morals and his religion, as he left them to us, the best the world ever saw or is likely to see, but I apprehend it has received various corrupting changes, and I have, with most of the present dissenters in England, some doubts as to his divinity, though it is a question I do not dogmatize upon, having never studied it, and think it needless to busy myself with it now, when I expect soon an opportunity of knowing the truth with less trouble. I see no harm, however, in its being believed, if that belief has the good consequences, as probably it has, of making his doctrines more respected and observed, especially as I do not perceive that the Supreme takes it amiss, by distinguishing the unbelievers in his government of the world with any peculiar marks of his displeasure."
--Benjamin Franklin, letter to Ezra Stiles, March 9, 1790

"All national institutions of churches, whether Jewish, Christian or Turkish, appear to me no other than human inventions, set up to terrify and enslave mankind, and monopolize power and profit."
--Thomas Paine, The Age of Reason, 1794

"I do not believe in the creed professed by the Jewish Church, by the Roman Church, by the Greek Church, by the Turkish Church, by the Protestant Church, nor by any church that I know of. My own mind is my own church."
--Thomas Paine, The Age of Reason, 1794

"Whenever we read the obscene stories, the voluptuous debaucheries, the cruel and torturous executions, the unrelenting vindictiveness, with which more than half the Bible is filled, it would be more consistent that we called it the word of a demon than the Word of God. It is a history of wickedness that has served to corrupt and brutalize mankind."
--Thomas Paine, The Age of Reason, 1794

"The question before the human race is, whether the God of nature shall govern the world by his own laws, or whether priests and kings shall rule it by fictitious miracles?"
--John Adams, letter to Thomas Jefferson, June 20, 1815

"The day will come when the mystical generation of Jesus, by the supreme being as his father in the womb of a virgin, will be classed with the fable of the generation of Minerva in the brain of Jupiter."
--Thomas Jefferson, letter to John Adams, April 11, 1823

"History, I believe, furnishes no example of a priest-ridden people maintaining a free civil government. This marks the lowest grade of ignorance, of which their political as well as religious leaders will always avail themselves for their own purpose."
--Thomas Jefferson, letter to Alexander von Humboldt, 1813

"Man is fed with fables through life, and leaves it in the belief he knows something of what has been passing, when in truth he has known nothing but what has passed under his own eye." —Thomas Jefferson, letter to Thomas Cooper, 1823

You and others who hold the mistaken notion that our founding fathers were all devout Christians should actually do some research. It is the viewpoints of these people that forced the freedom of religion component.

Jim| 11.6.08 @ 4:52PM

Here

Deborah| 11.6.08 @ 4:53PM

This is my first post here. I am no intellectual heavyweight, just a regular ol' American gal.

My Republican party, of which I am a lifelong member, as were my parents and their parents, has little resemblance today, to the Republican party of my youth.

It seems to me that my party has allowed itself to be defined by it's most extreme members (currently referred to as "the base") which has led to its own decline. Despite my lifelong membership I am now referred to as"mushy middle", RINO, and assorted other derogatory terms. While I consistently hear that America is a center-right country, those squarely at the center right have been dismissed by the more extreme members. Republicans have only themselves to blame for their current state of affairs.

While it seems that most here would agree that if the Democrats succumb to the far left of their party it would spell trouble, we seem unable or unwilling to recognize the same about ourselves.

I am always very careful to identify myself as a Republican these days, as opposed to a conservative, as I do not want to be associated with the likes of Coulter, et al. The folks that have placed themselves front and center for Republicans have had an ill effect on my party.

I am a Republican and I am a conservative person. I am conservative in all things, including my conduct. I am a part of what was once called the silent majority, though I now feel distinctly in the minority. The Republican party of today has completely lost it's focus and has allowed the tail to wag the dog.

Though I am supremely disappointed in the current state of affairs I am not at all surprised. When the ideologues are running the show, regardless of party, trouble is sure to follow.

Don| 11.6.08 @ 4:53PM

Judge Obama by his voting record and past actions. They are radical and secular in thinking. Our country was founded on Christian beliefs free from big government, high taxes and government suppression. Obama stands for none of these principles. He claims the Constitution is flawed, he wants judges to legislate from the bench. (What the left fails to realize is that judges are SWORN in to UPHOLD the Constitution not change it to suit their twisted agenda)

How can you say God bless America and support abortion. I guess it's just as easy to say I didn't know what Rev. Wright was preaching for twenty years. He only Wed my wife and I and Baptised my children. It is hypocritical and deceitful to say the least. Our society is as ignorant as it is immoral. I'll say it again the people that justify his associations and prior actions are just plain ignorant, the rest (40%) of Americans are government dependent in some way shape or form and are standing there waitng for a free handout, waiting to pick pocket their neighbor.

Liberalism, unforunately relies on Government dependent people to survive and the left will continue to try to make as many people as possible dependent upon them. When Welfare was first introduced by FDR it was supposed to eliminate poverty. How many decades have gone by? Poverty has progressively got worse year after year. Proof that they really aren't trying to fix the problem. They're just keeping you right where they want you. They give you just enough to get by but never enough to really make a significant impact in your life.

If the Fair Tax was in Place Obama would never have won this election, which was of course won with the lies such as tax cuts for 95% of Americans. Mark My words everyone will be paying taxes one way or the other. It just may be in the form of Jimmy carter economics such as 21.5% interest rates or a 13.5% inflation rate. You silly, liberal souls are just exploited by your own party's greed and gluttony for power and wealth. The cause of this shift to the left is clearly ignorance and laziness. My question is - why would anyone want to mimick inferior countries in Europe and abroad by moving further to the left? After all we are the greatest country the Earth has ever seen.

Dale| 11.6.08 @ 4:53PM

John | 11.6.08 @ 3:19PM

I don't have a Ph.D or work for a university, but I am an engineer and work in a very specialized aerospace lab with mostly Ph.Ds. I have to admit that your observation and experiences are pretty much spot on. I observed mostly Obama stickers and buttons and anyone with leanings toward McCain would be isolated at lunch and breaks. It is a true shame that civil discourse of issues is something of the past, as it has been my experience that if you want to have a second discussion of an issue with a liberal, you first must declare sides and if you are on the wrong side, no discussion, you just get told how ignorant and narrow-minded you are.

CheckSix| 11.6.08 @ 5:01PM

It's paradigm shift time. Sun Tzu's "The Art of War" seems applicable in these uncertain dark times for our threatened Republic. I think it is obvious that Conservatives will not get a fair shake with "the system" (media/judicial/etc..) So it is time to come to grips and realize we are in a culteral war for the country as we once knew it. It is time to start thinking outside the box--tactically , speaking. We need to fight this very carefully....because the next thing we know, Waxman will have his Stalinist show trials going on in full swing! (These are nasty people who don't play fair or nice!--wake up, moderates!!)

Don| 11.6.08 @ 5:01PM

Bob

God is on every important document in this country's history. That is an undeniable fact, so go ahead and try and twist this to suit you're perverted way of life. Next I suppose that you'd tell me that our founding fathers would favor big government, high taxes and abortion. Your statements are laughable.,

Dale| 11.6.08 @ 5:05PM

Don | 11.6.08 @ 3:53PM

The tipping point may very well be attained during Obama's first term as President. The tipping point where there are more people sucking on the government teat than being taxed to support it. When that happens ther is no stopping the chaos and revolt that will surely come to pass. When those standing in line with their hands out and being told "there isn't anything to put in it", will want to know "Where's my check and why isn't it more?". When this happens anarchy will reign and the urban centers will burn in protest. Eventually the close suburbs will burn, at which time all out revolution and civil war will break out. Pretty damn bleak picture for the future. The GOP has ushered in the real opportunity for this scenario because they got intoxicated with power and forgot what they were elected to do.

Deborah| 11.6.08 @ 5:06PM

CheckSix, you had me until the "wake up moderates" line. You guys don't get it. The moderates are the majority in this country and the far right of the Republican party better start recognizing that. To be a "true" conservative you must be moderate. Hand in glove!

Obama realized that the extremists in his party could doom his candidacy, why oh why don't we Republicans come to the same realization?

gary| 11.6.08 @ 5:07PM

Lol, watching you guys freak out is really fun. 8 YEARS OF YOUR BULLSHIT IS OVER, IT IS TRULY A GREAT DAY FOR ALL AMERICANS. Now it's time to get to work.

Deborah| 11.6.08 @ 5:09PM

Grow up, gary!

Gary| 11.6.08 @ 5:10PM

RE: Don's Comment of:

"God is on every important document in this country's history. That is an undeniable fact, so go ahead and try and twist this to suit you're perverted way of life. "

Here are some direct quotes from our founding fathers you might be interested in (try reading them instead of shitting your pants this time):

"Lighthouses are more helpful than churches."
--Ben Franklin, Poor Richard's Almanack, 1758

"Ecclesiastical establishments tend to great ignorance and corruption, all of which facilitate the execution of mischievous projects."
--James Madison, letter to William Bradford, January 1774

"Religious bondage shackles and debilitates the mind and unfits it for every noble enterprise, every expanded prospect."
--James Madison, letter to William Bradford, April 1, 1774
". . . no man shall be compelled to frequent or support any religious worship, place, or ministry whatsoever, nor shall be enforced, restrained, molested, or burthened in his body or goods, nor shall otherwise suffer, on account of his religious opinions or belief; but that all men shall be free to profess, and by argument to maintain, their opinions in matters of religion, and that the same shall in no wise diminish, enlarge, or affect their civil capacities."
—Thomas Jefferson, Virginia Statute for Religious Freedom, 1779

"Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason, than that of blind-folded fear."
--Thomas Jefferson, letter, 1787

"As to Jesus of Nazareth, my opinion of whom you particularly desire, I think the system of morals and his religion, as he left them to us, the best the world ever saw or is likely to see, but I apprehend it has received various corrupting changes, and I have, with most of the present dissenters in England, some doubts as to his divinity, though it is a question I do not dogmatize upon, having never studied it, and think it needless to busy myself with it now, when I expect soon an opportunity of knowing the truth with less trouble. I see no harm, however, in its being believed, if that belief has the good consequences, as probably it has, of making his doctrines more respected and observed, especially as I do not perceive that the Supreme takes it amiss, by distinguishing the unbelievers in his government of the world with any peculiar marks of his displeasure."
--Benjamin Franklin, letter to Ezra Stiles, March 9, 1790

"All national institutions of churches, whether Jewish, Christian or Turkish, appear to me no other than human inventions, set up to terrify and enslave mankind, and monopolize power and profit."
--Thomas Paine, The Age of Reason, 1794

"I do not believe in the creed professed by the Jewish Church, by the Roman Church, by the Greek Church, by the Turkish Church, by the Protestant Church, nor by any church that I know of. My own mind is my own church."
--Thomas Paine, The Age of Reason, 1794

"Whenever we read the obscene stories, the voluptuous debaucheries, the cruel and torturous executions, the unrelenting vindictiveness, with which more than half the Bible is filled, it would be more consistent that we called it the word of a demon than the Word of God. It is a history of wickedness that has served to corrupt and brutalize mankind."
--Thomas Paine, The Age of Reason, 1794

"The question before the human race is, whether the God of nature shall govern the world by his own laws, or whether priests and kings shall rule it by fictitious miracles?"
--John Adams, letter to Thomas Jefferson, June 20, 1815

"The day will come when the mystical generation of Jesus, by the supreme being as his father in the womb of a virgin, will be classed with the fable of the generation of Minerva in the brain of Jupiter."
--Thomas Jefferson, letter to John Adams, April 11, 1823

"History, I believe, furnishes no example of a priest-ridden people maintaining a free civil government. This marks the lowest grade of ignorance, of which their political as well as religious leaders will always avail themselves for their own purpose."
--Thomas Jefferson, letter to Alexander von Humboldt, 1813

"Man is fed with fables through life, and leaves it in the belief he knows something of what has been passing, when in truth he has known nothing but what has passed under his own eye." —Thomas Jefferson, letter to Thomas Cooper, 1823

Bob| 11.6.08 @ 5:10PM

Don, I've given you EXACT quotes of the people who wrote the founding documents. This is what they actually believed. You are rewriting history if you believe otherwise.

Dale| 11.6.08 @ 5:12PM

Gary,

I guess you had better make sure you have a secure job, because if the policies that Obama has said he wants to implement come to pass, unemployment will rise to 20% or greater. He knows raising taxes costs jobs, but he said he will do it any way. Unionization will cause many businesses to cut back of disappear. Yes, work today, tomorrow, and as many days as you still have a job, because you may not have one in the future.

CheckSix| 11.6.08 @ 5:13PM

No way deb, cause moderate donkeys are squishy losers....no heart or courage. sorry--to whimpy. Conservatism is what made this country great. Moderation yields mediocrity.....no thanks.

Deborah| 11.6.08 @ 5:13PM

Bob/Gary, I think you just gave yourself away.

Here's a tip: If you're going to post under different names you should probably change the contents of the posts.

Gary| 11.6.08 @ 5:15PM

"Obama has said he wants to implement come to pass, unemployment will rise to 20% or greater. "

Great to see you guys still backing your arguments with numbers you pull out of your ass.

Sonlit| 11.6.08 @ 5:16PM

I welcome this fight. Time to stop running. This brawl has been coming for years. Let's get it on! *ding ding*

Gary| 11.6.08 @ 5:17PM

"Bob/Gary, I think you just gave yourself away.

Here's a tip: If you're going to post under different names you should probably change the contents of the posts. "

Here's a tip: Select text and hit control+c. Then press control+v. Technology is phun!!!

Don| 11.6.08 @ 5:17PM

Gary, Bob,

So shallow. Interpret those quotes as you wish.

Gary| 11.6.08 @ 5:19PM

"Gary, Bob,

So shallow. Interpret those quotes as you wish."

Yeah, you've gotta dig pretty deep to tease any atheist sentiment out of this one:

"Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason, than that of blind-folded fear."
--Thomas Jefferson, letter, 1787 "

Deborah| 11.6.08 @ 5:22PM

CheckSix, you're sentiments are exactly why the party numbers are dwindling.

You need a dictionary my friend.

Moderation; the quality of being moderate; restraint; avoidance of extremes or excesses; temperance.

Conservative; a person who is conservative in principles, actions, habits, etc.

I have been called a lot of things in my life, but weak and mediocre have never been hurled at me. I am what one might call a "kick ass" chick. Bet I could take you!

Marc Jeric| 11.6.08 @ 5:22PM

Give a "strong" union 40 years of time and it will destroy the industry it works in. Automibile, steel, textile, electronics industries come to mind. Just look at the car you are driving, the television set that amuses you, the shirt and sock and pajamas and shoes you are wearing. Teacher union is very, very strong - they have good pensions and health care, and only 45% of them work in the classroom (the other 55% "administer"). That union has produced milli0ns of illiterates who mumble the teacher union's "liberal" nonsense, and who know nothing of literature, geography, history. And, of course, they vote for Abu Hussein and his "change" toward socialism and perpetual power. As to which race is racist, white or black - 95% of blacks voted for the black, and 55% of whites as well.

Bozena| 11.6.08 @ 5:28PM

Bob-people like you created the losing Republican Party. You should understand that conservatism is not the same as republicanism.
You also seem to forget that USA was created on Judeo-Christian principles. You claim to be the "inteligentsia", you should educate yourself on Nazism being one of the left wing philosophy as is a communism(read "Liberal Fascism" by Jonah Goldberg). Once you read this book you will aslo understand that Hitler was not a Christian, he prosecuted church, he created his own religion, where the state was a GOD as it is in Communism. But I guess they did not teach you that in the public schools. Regarding education since when "a diploma", better yet an"Ivy league diploma" guarantees inteligence, and emotional smarts needed to suceed in life (Rush and Hannity have them both). You should also educate yourself on how lack of the religion principles creates emptiness in psyche not to mention moral compass, and how those who were raised without religion end up finding something other to fill the void (for example environmentalism, read great speech by Michael Crichton "Environmentalism as Religion", which you could find on his web-site). That might also explain why Obama is treated as Messaiah by those without a religion and some with.
Regarding Sarah Palin-why don't you ask yourself WHY those so called "rumors" are coming out now, after McCain lost, and why those people don't have guts to come out "on the record"? As an inteligent person you should examine first, before you start spreading "rumors".

Philip M- I am also Polish American, who just became a citizen and voted for the first time. I am as amazed as you are how little they teach in public schools here about Communism and Stalin and the 100,000,000 people you died because of the socialism/communism. I love what Churchill said about it: "a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy; its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery.”
It is what we are getting since Obama is elected.

To All-It will be hard, but conservatism will prevail because it is theonly logical choice. When my former country Poland and the whole Eastern Europe was under communism we did not have Talk Radio, we did not have free press, the schools were propaganda machines of communists, there were no internet, we were not free to even travel abroad and the Freedom prevailed. Americans have a great tradition of Freedom and conservatism is part of it...We will prevail!

Kevin| 11.6.08 @ 5:28PM

As a European who stumbled on this site whilst perusing around after the election I must say I find some of the 'Obama is a commie' attitudes here simply jaw dropping. From my perspective - in the UK - he's what I term a 'One Nation Conservative' of the likes of John Major. If one mixes in the rasmataz and media-savvy stuff too what you have is a somewhat more right-wing version of Tony Blair. Our current PM - who as you may recall recently provided the model for the stabilization of the banking system - is way, way to the left of Obama.
I'm sure all that will happen is Obama and the Democrats will have romp along for this term whilst the GOP commits near suicide by tearing itself to bits resisting fundamental reform and Obama will win big again 2010/2012. You'll then look yourselves properly and reinvent a conservative formula which appeals to the centre and minorities becoming disillusioned with the Democrats and you'll return to power in a new, revitalized fashion in 2016 or 2020 - by which time the GOP will look very different because the majority of your current, aging white, will supporters have died off and a long period out of power will have forced your to think the unthinkable.
OK, your thinking this guy's a jumped up european idiot who knows nothing about american politics - well you're probably right - except the above pattern has been played out in one form or another (and sometimes with left/right swapped) in a dozen or more european democracies over the past 20 years, and I don't expect you'll be any different.

Gary| 11.6.08 @ 5:40PM

Kevin is probably one of the few commenters with any sense.

George Bruce| 11.6.08 @ 5:40PM

Note how "Bob" has highjacked the discussion to talk about "religious intolerance" when there is nothing in the original article that calls for any religious intolerance. Rather Alinsky-like don't you think?

Larry| 11.6.08 @ 5:46PM

I don't know Bob, and I know he is trying to sound like a reasonable fellow, but I know a lot about history, too, as much as (if not more than) President-elect Obama. As one who was born 54 years ago in Milwaukee, Wisconsin, and has plenty of relatives from and personal experiences spending time in the City of Chicago, I know where Obama comes from, and who his people were and are. While I don't think everything that Quin describes will happen, there is a pretty good chance a lot of it will. And if it does, that will be a very bad thing for the country we all know and love.

Look at the way the Obama campaign ran their message - a lot of soft pabulum, with no hard substance (issues? issues? I don't know what campaign YOU were watching, Bob). And what substance there was was found to be very misleading when examined closely. Look at what the Obama campaign did when people tried to ask them hard questions - stop giving interviews. Look at how they manipulated the establishment media (although they didn't have to try all that hard, did they?).

Old habits are hard to break. And yes, Bob, absolute power corrupts absolutely on both sides of the aisle. But let's not delude ourselves into thinking that Obama will govern from the "center." I laugh when I hear people say that. Obama is going to define the "center" the way he wants to - unless he is challenged on every issue important to conservatives and Republicans alike.

Tired of sidestepping| 11.6.08 @ 5:53PM

Bozenza, the US was not created under "Judeo-Christian" principles. That's a term created by the Judeo-Bolsheviks to soften the view toward them and guide attention away from their operations. The term didn't exist until the early 1950's. Do your homework before telling others they haven't been schooled correctly. It's a shame you don't look into who was behind all the slaughter by the Communists in Europe. Communists like Solomon Perlmutter, better known after he changed his name to Nikita Kruschev. Or Lenin, who has turned out to be of the same ilk. Or Tito. Or thousands of others actually in charge.

Larry| 11.6.08 @ 5:58PM

Reading Kevin's post made me think - Tony Blair is probably one of the best analogies for Obama. Although what is regarded as "right," "left," and "center" in Europe is probably still a lot different than what we in America regard those terms to mean (which is another reason why saying Obama will govern from the "center" is absurd). Obama brings a perceptibly fresh perspective, but is hidebound to wreak massive yet subtle change on the political and social culture. And that change, similar in some extent and degree to Britain (at least with the possible exception of the growth of acceptance of a role for sharia law in Britain which I think unlikely to happen here), would be disastrous for America. An article by Melanie Phillips that I read today makes the Blair-Obama comparison, and I think it is generally apt.

On the other hand, if Obama screws up the economy or American foreign policy, Jimmy Carter might become the better analogy - and guarantee a one-term presidency.

James Lee| 11.6.08 @ 6:02PM

Bob, I was always taught to be wary of anyone who had the answers to all the questions. You seem to possess the same haugtiness usually seen in liberals.

I think there would be a more intelligent and respectful discussion on this page if you would just go away.

Rob| 11.6.08 @ 6:10PM

It is clear that many have a misguided notion as to who Christ is and was. He is and was the Son of God born as a Jew. The Jewish race was chosen by God to reveal Himself to. He revealed Himself as YWEH, I am that I am. Jesus follows the lineage prophesied to in the Law and the Prophets. He was and is a spiritual messiah. The fact some Jews rejected Him as the Messiah, doesn't negate that. He said he would be denied, rejected and despised and this was also described in the Prophets. Nevertheless, Jesus loves us all. So much so that He gave His life. He didn't fight, form an overthrow or dabble in politics. He led by example. If you are truly a Christ follower then you must realize that we are "adopted" Jews. Our faith is Judaic. When Jesus walked the earth and for years after there was no such thing as a Christian religion. There were just Messianic Jews and converts to the this Judaic faith. These fights between Jews and Christians and between denominations achieve nothing and are not Scriptural. Bob, Tom Paine , anyone is free to reject Jesus as the Messiah. The job of a Christ follower is to preach the gospel (good news) of spiritual salvation and do so, lovingly, humbly and with a heart after God.

I also agree with Bob, in that this Nation was not founded as a Christian nation, rather as nation where Biblical mores and ethics were deeply entrenched into the men and the documents they created. If more of us, Jew, Catholic, Baptist, Presbyterian or whatever read it more and practiced what it teaches, we would be less enthralled with our intellect and more in search of wisdom, humility and love, which is the theme from Genesis to Revelation.
What does all this have to do with Politics? Nothing. But let's just s